#mfa in writing

[itsawritblr]

Things I Can Say About MFA Writing Programs Now That I No Longer Teach in One.

by Ryan Boudinot.

I recently left a teaching position in a master of fine arts creative-writing program. I had a handful of students whose work changed my life. The vast majority of my students were hardworking, thoughtful people devoted to improving their craft despite having nothing interesting to express and no interesting way to express it. My hope for them was that they would become better readers. And then there were students whose work was so awful that it literally put me to sleep. Here are some things I learned from these experiences.

Writers are born with talent.

Either you have a propensity for creative expression or you don't. Some people have more talent than others. That's not to say that someone with minimal talent can't work her ass off and maximize it and write something great, or that a writer born with great talent can't squander it. It's simply that writers are not all born equal. The MFA student who is the Real Deal is exceedingly rare, and nothing excites a faculty adviser more than discovering one. I can count my Real Deal students on one hand, with fingers to spare.

If you didn't decide to take writing seriously by the time you were a teenager, you're probably not going to make it.

There are notable exceptions to this rule, Haruki Murakami being one. But for most people, deciding to begin pursuing creative writing in one's 30s or 40s is probably too late. Being a writer means developing a lifelong intimacy with language. You have to be crazy about books as a kid to establish the neural architecture required to write one.

If you complain about not having time to write, please do us both a favor and drop out.

I went to a low-residency MFA program and, years later, taught at a low-residency MFA program. "Low-residency" basically means I met with my students two weeks out of the year and spent the rest of the semester critiquing their work by mail. My experience tells me this: Students who ask a lot of questions about time management, blow deadlines, and whine about how complicated their lives are should just give up and do something else. Their complaints are an insult to the writers who managed to produce great work under far more difficult conditions than the 21st-century MFA student. On a related note: Students who ask if they're "real writers," simply by asking that question, prove that they are not.

If you aren't a serious reader, don't expect anyone to read what you write.

Without exception, my best students were the ones who read the hardest books I could assign and asked for more. One student, having finished his assigned books early, asked me to assign him three big novels for the period between semesters. Infinite Jest, 2666, and Gravity's Rainbow, I told him, almost as a joke. He read all three and submitted an extra-credit essay, too. That guy was the Real Deal.

Conversely, I've had students ask if I could assign shorter books, or—without a trace of embarrassment—say they weren't into "the classics" as if "the classics" was some single, aesthetically consistent genre. Students who claimed to enjoy "all sorts" of books were invariably the ones with the most limited taste. One student, upon reading The Great Gatsby (for the first time! Yes, a graduate student!), told me she preferred to read books "that don't make me work so hard to understand the words." I almost quit my job on the spot.

No one cares about your problems if you're a shitty writer.

I worked with a number of students writing memoirs. One of my Real Deal students wrote a memoir that actually made me cry. He was a rare exception. For the most part, MFA students who choose to write memoirs are narcissists using the genre as therapy. They want someone to feel sorry for them, and they believe that the supposed candor of their reflective essay excuses its technical faults. Just because you were abused as a child does not make your inability to stick with the same verb tense for more than two sentences any more bearable. In fact, having to slog through 500 pages of your error-riddled student memoir makes me wish you had suffered more.

You don't need my help to get published.

When I was working on my MFA between 1997 and 1999, I understood that if I wanted any of the work I was doing to ever be published, I'd better listen to my faculty advisers. MFA programs of that era were useful from a professional development standpoint—I still think about a lecture the poet Jason Shinder gave at Bennington College that was full of tremendously helpful career advice I use to this day. But in today's Kindle/e-book/self-publishing environment, with New York publishing sliding into cultural irrelevance, I find questions about working with agents and editors increasingly old-fashioned. Anyone who claims to have useful information about the publishing industry is lying to you, because nobody knows what the hell is happening. My advice is for writers to reject the old models and take over the production of their own and each other's work as much as possible.

It's not important that people think you're smart.

After eight years of teaching at the graduate level, I grew increasingly intolerant of writing designed to make the writer look smart, clever, or edgy. I know this work when I see it; I've written a fair amount of it myself. But writing that's motivated by the desire to give the reader a pleasurable experience really is best. I told a few students over the years that their only job was to keep me entertained, and the ones who got it started to enjoy themselves, and the work got better. Those who didn't get it were stuck on the notion that their writing was a tool designed to procure my validation. The funny thing is, if you can put your ego on the back burner and focus on giving someone a wonderful reading experience, that's the cleverest writing.

It's important to woodshed.

Occasionally my students asked me about how I got published after I got my MFA, and the answer usually disappointed them. After I received my degree in 1999, I spent seven years writing work that no one has ever read—two novels and a book's worth of stories totaling about 1,500 final draft pages. These unread pages are my most important work because they're where I applied what I'd learned from my workshops and the books I read, one sentence at a time. Those seven years spent in obscurity, with no attempt to share my work with anyone, were my training, and they are what allowed me to eventually write books that got published.

Ryan Boudinot is executive director of Seattle City of Literature.

*~*~*~*~*

I agree with all he says except concerning publishing.

This was originally written when it was a strongly held belief that ebooks would replace paper books. Seriously, in 2009-2012 even Barnes & Noble was telling employees they'd better learn how to sell Nooks, because paper books were going to "disappear" within the next 4 years.

Didn't happen, obviously.

Traditional publishing is as it ever was; I've personally never had a problem with it, though I've known people who have (mostly due to shitty editors in smaller presses). As for Kindle/e-book/self-publishing, I don't do that, so I can't tell you anything about it (except negative stuff from people I know who've done it and regret it).

But I will add, and this is important:

YOU DON'T NEED AN MFA TO BE A TRADITIONALLY PUBLISHED WRITER.

IN FACT, YOU'RE WASTING YOUR FUCKING MONEY IF YOU DO GET AN MFA.

You can learn all you need to know about writing well without a degree. Shit, I don't even have a high school diploma (dropped out at 16).

MFA teachers promise you'll learn to write so well you'll be published faster than people without a degree. *BUZZER* Wrong!

An MFA is NO guarantee that you'll be published. Publishers are looking for work that will sell -- they're a for-profit business -- not necessarily work that's well written by a literary POV. If your book is pretty well written but publishers don't think anyone will like it enough to lay out money for it, they won't be interested.

And an MFA doesn't mean you have talent. Colleges and universities who have MFAs in Writing are looking for your $$$. They're not about to turn you down. And professors aren't keen on actually flunking anyone. As Ryan Boudinot says, as a teacher he wouldn't tell you that you don't have a lick of talent. I mean, they want more students coughing up thousands of dollars to get an MFA, and that can't happen if students bad-mouth the degree and teachers for telling them the truth that they should become attorneys or retail managers or baristas. (I'm looking at you, Hamline, Carleton.)

Another nugget they don't tell you is, on average a professional writer earns, after taxes, $3000 to $6000 a year. If you want an MFA because you're convinced you're gonna be the next bestselling NYT author,

Even if you do become a pro, it will take years and years to pay off your MFA student debt. Which means you'll need a day job, just like 99% of all pros.

So instead of going into debt for most of your life, don't get an MFA. Have a day job you like and meanwhile learn to write well the way people have done since before anyone ever heard of an MFA.

[grandpa-boyfriend]

it's so insane how rick loves morty in his own way but it's so subtle and so so so so much based implicit meanings rather than outright gestures. but it becomes so clear when you view his "expressions" of love in their simplest form.

creating rickbot? rick didn't want morty to be lonely or to worry about him, even when rick himself was upset at morty for "treating" him like he's "boring" during the knights of the sun episode

the fear hole episode at the end? he carries a picture of morty in his wallet. he LIKES being able to see an image of morty whenever he wants. it might even bring him comfort. him putting it on the board was to also show how proud he was of morty, at the end, to the extent that he would willing part with something he obviously LIKES. (tho tbh he prob just grabbed another picture at home and put it in his wallet. it was clearly a school photo and they prob do have multiple of those)

like, this is something that is really coming across more overtly in the later seasons. in the earlier seasons, we saw rick go through cycles of controlling morty and then discarding him when they either got too emotionally close, when morty expressed anger/displeasure with rick, and/or when rick felt like he needed to "punish" morty for either of the two previous things (think the vat of acid or the two crows).

rick's toxic treatment and abuse of morty can be considered him "caring" about morty in his own fucked up way, even though it's not true love and care as it disregards morty's autonomy and feelings. however, for someone like rick to willingly exert control over another person instead of just abandoning them the moment they express something he doesn't like? that's basically him admitting he wants morty in his life.

rick becoming much more soft and caring in his own way in these recent seasons is a very subtle thing - but, it's like, once you see it, then a lot of things start clicking into place in regards to his character development and his relationship with morty.

[wuntrum]

the green goblin mask (grad school programs) are whispering to me once more

[mysharona1987]

Honestly, the real story behind the Cat Person film/short story sounds more interesting and chaotic than the movie itself.

So, basically how bad was real life Robert?

The original girlfriend, whom the author based it on, insists he was a decent enough guy, they dated for a few years. She says the bad sex and foul text messages never happened. She remembers him fondly. But acknowledges she was 18 when they started dating and he was 32. (red flag.)

But then the author, who also knew and dated him, paints him out to be a terrible guy, then based the story on the original girlfriend, who is reasonably pissed about it. And the author included every exact detail so everyone in their social circle knew it was about them. But then made up all the nasty stuff..

Original girlfriend says when the story went viral it sent real life Robert into a spiral of depression. He died suddenly in 2021. She never explains why, but the suggestion is suicide.

Creative writing majors be causing all the drama.

[notthequiettype]

any fun wips you got cooking rn?

i recently (maybe a month ago?) went through my apple notes (where all my stories start) and reorganized EVERYTHINGGGGGGG (including the ten million other things in there that aren't hockey stories ofc) and made myself be RUTHLESS while i decided what was a wip i wanted to focus on rn and what was a wip i needed to set aside (i used to say no wip was ever really abandoned, but my stance on that has changed drastically in the last year, which i kind of hate but know is a sign of growth!) and these are the ones that survived the cull and live in the TARGET WIPS folder now lmao

i liked what i wrote in the olympics airport meetcute yesterday, so here's that! (leon plays in germany, they meet during an unexpected layover on their way to the olympics, inspired by a tweet about a girl with a phone on her head and that day the entire flight system bluescreened)

[kingofdorkville]

CONGRATS ON GRADUATING OMG??

THANK YOU!!!

[deermouth]

Really funny moment earlier when I was telling housemate about the 2 Interview With The Vampire Zines Incident and she was like "That's... Anne... Rand, right?"

[sentientglue]

Postgrad research proposal finally done and submitted! Shout out to my primary academic supervisor, Enkei, for getting me through. He doesn’t say much but I think he read every word.

[makkasbuns]

the semester is over, my 4.0 remains intact, and I am back to chipping away at my fic!

[curls-cat]

i really like rap but every time i listen to a song with the n word in it i think about American Sonnet for my Past and Future Assassin [even the most kindhearted white woman] and feel REAL uncomfortable 👉👉

[laddersofsweetmisery]

tw: SA

working on a new piece for my MFA workshop assignment. not sure how I like it.

[trickstersaint]

hey what kind of wichcraft did you put in your quiz???? I got patron saint of obsession,,, "staring in the sun until you're blind"??? I feel very. idk. I wrote a poem about my ex where I literally said the same thing wtf?? I am intrigued, 10/10 experience.

are you open to discussion poetry?

hi!!! just the normal witchcraft, i think... (<— guy who compares writing uquizzes to reading tarot)

i love to come across shared themes! something so. idk. sparks of small stars in the heart. about that. there's only so many things that we can write about as human beings but still the fact that we've hit the same notes is so cool to me...

i am always up to discussing poetry!! poetry my great love. :3

[karrova]

okay tbh, if you're interested in getting an MFA in creative writing I'd recommend you get a phd in literature instead, especially if you want to become a teacher

[mercymornsimpathizer]

finally read that long ass four writers/one affair article...

[mysticalenthusiastvoid]

Do I absolutely need an MFA in creative writing? No.

Do I want one? Yes.

Can I find one online that is more affordable, genre-friendly, still lets me work full-time, and is taught by people who haven’t only worked in academia since their early 20’s? We’ll see.

I’ve been waffling for years on getting one or not, but I adjusted my antidepressant dosage a few months ago, things keep imploding in a good way. I’m still doing the horizon chasing shit, but in a more realistic way.

I’m usually fairly resourceful at finding what I need or working around things, so I’m sure I’ll find something that works for me.

[clansunsharp]

Are there any ideas you have for Rot that youre willing to share, now that the applications closed?

- vabam-fr

sure i can share what i sent ringleader for her application. this long as hell proceed at your own risk.

Basic Clan Lore: Wake's Bane is a disorganized pack of criminals, outcasts, and vagabonds operating under the guise of a mercenary company. Led by a ruthless mirror of the same name, they terrorize the ruins of the Emperor's Wake, preying on the uprooted clans and refugees left vulnerable from Luminax's rampage. Their strategy is simple: if a clan is able to pay, Wake's Bane will protect them. If not, the company will take their dues in other ways - theft, murder, kidnapping - they're not picky. Wake's Bane will occasionally clash with Clan Sunsharp when their Vanguard are sent to probe the southern reaches of the Light domain. Due to Bane's history with Clan Sunsharp's commander, Alacrith, it's highly likely these missions are sabotaged on purpose thanks to an age old grudge. Clan Sunsharp's opposite in every way, no tenets govern Wake's Bane other than blood and gold.

Plans For Dragon: This one is trickier since I don't have any of the clan member's bio's written out (the ideas are in my head, but alas my work ethic). That being said, Rot would fit in well with Wake's Bane. She's a lean mean killing machine, and that's perfectly in line with how most of Bane's crew gets their kicks. She'd have to fight for respect just like everyone else, but it would quickly become clear that she has the skills to back up her mouth, and her past experience dealing with dangerous entities (I'm thinking of the godfalls here) would cement her as a solid asset to the band rather than just an opportunistic tag-along. Most likely she would be personally pushed and tested by members who especially doubt her (Maerys and Ewara come to mind) and in the ensuing fight she'd permanently scar or maim her opponent, which would put an end to anyone else questioning her place in the company. I have a feeling she would become attached to Ratha, Bane's right hand and fellow guardian from Plague. Neither of them would acknowledge it formally, and their relationship would be pretty contentious, but the two of them would form a twisted sort of mentor/mentee bond, much to the chagrin of the rest of the company (gods, we don't need TWO of them! one is scary enough!). Ratha would push her hard (and she would push right back) but Rot would ultimately grow more strong, flexible, and cunning under her tutelage. Esdras would also take a liking to her, acting as a weird uncle figure who encourages her worst habits (he benefits from this relationship through the many corpses she leaves for his use). In her rare moments of weakness, Esdras would be the one she turns to, and he's tactful enough to not acknowledge her struggles as he understands how deeply embarrassing that would be for her. Where Ratha lacks in magical teaching, Esdras can make up the deficit. He would be especially interested in Rot's method of harvesting magic and would encourage cultivating this skill. As far as peers go, Maerys would be her greatest rival. As a disgraced ex-member of the Lightweaver's exalted army, her ego is huge and fragile, and she would easily rise to Rot's bait every time she wants to cause problems on purpose. Conversely, she would get along well with Hawthorne, Bane's informant who acts as Rot's softspoken and delicate opposite. They would be paired on jobs together often, since they both have a propensity for stealth (and because Hawthorne keeps requesting it, but she will deny this if asked about it outright). While Bane encourages indiscriminate bloodshed, she also understands the value of clean, efficient kills - something Rot is capable of demonstrating (unlike many of her peers; Maerys makes things too personal, Ewara leaves too much of a mess, Jet and Magyrinth are too high profile, etc). After proving herself as a member of the company, she would be put to use as an assassin and scout, scanning the horizon for Luminax, spying on clans and noting weak points, and blending in with her surroundings to take out more dangerous enemies that can't be attacked outright. Due to the grudge Bane holds against Clan Sunsharp, Rot would also be sent on a few recon trips to the Mirrorlight Promenade, instructed to observe and report their movements back to her boss. Rot is clever enough to see that she's essentially a weapon in Bane's hands just like the rest of the company, but she's compensated well for her services so it doesn't bother her that much (plus it beats being kept on a literal leash like Jet).