#probably a mistake to post about feanor

[carlandrea]

Actually I’d like to think that at some point during a fight Nerdanel told Feanor that he’s absolutely exhausting to live with

And then you know he looks at her like he’d just been shot

[starsofarda]

MORE SPINOFFS of my "Finweans in the shire" not-fanfiction! Once again, I would like to thank @starshadeemilyart for her beautiful art of Maglor in Hobbit Fashion! Go check her art!!!

OG post here

First spinoffs

Anyway, more under cut!

TURGON, BILBO AND THE TROLL TREASURE

Well. At a certain point someone asks Bilbo why he was gone and he starts telling about how Gandalf enrolled him as a burglar to help the Dwarves from Erebor to defeat the dragon Smaug and get back their home, something the Finweans absolutely sympathize with, cue also Fingon gently crushing Mae's remaining hand bc he is experiencing dragon related PTSD.

The Feanorians do NOT flip at the Arkenstone mention, maybe it's a Silmaril, maybe it's a different stone, we don't know, it's now too far in the past anyway and the Oath does not have any validity anymore.

BUT when Bilbo recalls the Trolls and their treasure, surprisingly, it's Turgon who flips off. "Sorry, did you say WHICH swords and WHAT treasure??? I would like to CALMLY enquire, please."

And Bilbo says: "Well, I have with me some of it, as my 1/14th share as per contract with the Dwarves" Cue Caranthir definitely approving of the bureaucracy of it.

Turgon: "May I see what you have?"

Bilbo: "Sure thing!"

And the Hobbit presents the various gems and trinkets and most importantly Sting! Gandalf shows Glamdring, saying that Orcrist has been buried with Thorin Oakenshield.

And Turgon recognizes Gondolin's treasure, but what can he do now? It's probably the first time Feanor feels some compassion towards the Nolofinweans and pats Turgon's back. "Been there, done that." He says. Fingolfin may be shedding a tiny tear at his half brother's gesture.

Turgon graciously relinquishes the treasure, after all the Hobbits are helping every single one of them, and blesses Sting with whatever grace he still has as former king of Gondolin.

Everything ends well.

CURUFIN AND THE REVENGE FOR HIS TINY TYELPE

Now onto the main bit. In the OG post things were left a bit nebulous, as I still had not figured out what to do next. NOW.

Ofc the Finweans seeing the Elves abandong ME does raise a few questions and gladly Gandalf fills them in with all the Sauron + One Ring and all the other rings situation.

Gandalf also says that Sauron created the One Ring and the Men + Dwarves rings, but the Elvish rings were created by Celebrimbor. And Curufin looks at Gandalf.

"Fine. I would like to commend my own son. Pray tell, wizard, where is my Tyelpe? I also would like to mend bridges with him."

There is a long silence. Gandalf braces himself. He describes, as reported by the chronicles, Celebrimbor's St. Sebastianification and death by the hand of Sauron.

LIVE CURUFIN REACTION

It's suddenly Finwe's death all over again - maybe, Feanor and Fingolfin join forces to keep Curufin grounded enough not to repeat their mistakes, but this surely means war until Gandalf has to use his Maia voice.

"WE DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHERE IS THE RING THE ENEMY FORGED, CURUFINWE ATARINKE, ALSO EVER HEARD OF NOT LAUNCHING YOURSELF TO DEATH HEADFIRST???"

Curufin tries to rebate that it is HIS SON THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT DAMMIT!

"And you are righteous in your anger, but all will be for naught if you let your anger cloud your judgement".

And so Gandalf reassures him that he is dealing with the search of the One Ring.

Ofc Elrond gets to know that something is cooking up in the Shire WAY in advance and he is surprised to see his adoptive dads there alive and thriving, one of them even married to the love of his life. It's another long explanation, but Fefe has just gained a new grandchild and by Eru he is going to dote on him, and the rest of the Finweans too. Elrond gives an off-hand comment about "I wish my MIL Galadriel loved me too", to which Feanor replies: "Worry not, grandchild of mine, she will."

And thus the Long Preparation to Finally Kill Sauron and Rid ME of every single Filth Left by Morgoth begins.

I am not dwelling on this too much, as what happens in LotR still happens, but it's something WAY shorter.

Most notable moments:

The Finweans showing up at LothLorien in battle gear giving Galadriel a whole new range of emotions

Curufin battling 9 Nazguls at once with Celegorm at the yell: "COME ON BITCH BOYS, YOU ALL TOOK IT ON MY SON YOU ALL NEED TO DIE PAINFULLY!"

Maedhros and Fingon being an absolute fucking NIGHTMARE for all Orcs and Goblins. Oh you thought Elrohir and Elladan were a nightmare??? Guess again, it seems that you all have forgotten the First Age!

Sauron seeing the Finweans in the "let's give Frodo and Sam time to go and chuck the Ring into the Lava" battle and considering just fleeing. He does not because his armies DO NOT know best.

Saruman having an incredibly short life and Rohan being lifted up from his control way earlier.

Curufin ACTUALLY gets a hold on the Palantir and looks straight into Sauron's eye and says: "YOU ARE GOING DOWN, YOU BITCH, DID YOU THINK YOU COULD HURT TYELPE AND NOT INCUR IN MY WRATH?! HELL NO YOU BITCH, I AM STRANGLING YOUR INCORPOREAL FORM WITH MY OWN HANDS."

At the end of it Namo makes Celebrimbor being re-embodied, cur reunion father/son and all is well all that ends well.

BACK TO AMAN

Well. The time of the Elves has ended and the Finweans, along with the remaining Elves, are granted pardon and allowed back to Valinor for having redeemed themselves during the war of the Ring.

The entire Shire travels with the Weird Elves to the Grey Havens and fills them with food, drink, trinkets, mathom, etc. There is a lot of crying.

Thingol is also there, he kind of looks forward to reunite with his own wife. The Gamgees have carved a pipe specifically for him and they gave him a good stash of pipeweed too.

The Shire will be forever blessed, even after the Elves have left.

Once the Last Ship arrives, Nerdanel and Anaire are summoned at the havens and they see Feanor and Fingolfin actually getting along and possibly holding for their wives the equivalent of like 1000 roses bouquets and apologies.

Nerdie and Anaire are happy to see Russingon and CeleDhel happily married and they marvel at the amount of grandkids they need to start doting on.

Yes, Bilbo and Frodo are there too, Bilbo seems to be Feanor's bestie and they both match energies perfectly.

Valinor is about to become a helluva lot more fun.

Thingol finds his own way to reunite with his wife Melian. They will live in gardening bliss for the rest of eternity.

---

Thoughts? Comments?

[eri-pl]

re: Feanor, Protestants, Catholics etc

OK, sorry for slightly misaligned title, because I'm not going to discuss Feanor as a allusion (Or whatever. Not allegory) of Protestantism, because I live in Poland and I know too little about Protestantism.

Anyway that comment inspired me, that's why the title.

So, I don't know if there's a correlation (time for a poll?) but I am a Catholic and I am pro-Valar (as in: they are benevolent and try their best and disobeying them = bad idea except maybe very rare situations). (Seriously. We can criticize them from behind the 4th wall, but in-setting? the Elves don't know better than the Valar. Well except that one time Feanor said he will have songs about him and Namo's messenger bowed and left looking stupid. That falls under the "very rare exception")

But I never could really internalize the "Valar are angels" thing. Like, excuse me, professor, but angels don't have badly communicating (or any) marriages. They don't get inpatient and yell at people in wrong moments and so on and so forth. Valar are their own thing.

I do, however, have a strong ...projection (for lack of a better word) of my emotional outlook at the Valar and at our bishops. And, I'm sorry, but the Valar come out better in this comparision. I'm not saying that each Vala is doing better than each bishop (especially Tulkas), but the average... well, ok, unless we count Melkor as a Vala. Then the Valar do have a worse average.

Anyway, the point is that they are divinely appointed, but also they make mistakes. And some of our (Polish but probably not only) situations really set the bar low and the Valar in comparision are very good and competent.

This may partly explain why I don't have much problem with accepting the Valar as both good and fit to rule, despite all the arguments of "that decision was really dumb" and also that one dialogue about giving up the Silmarils (hey, Aule did well!), and probably more.

(Or maybe I don't like arguing with the author too much... no, wait, I do argue with him about other things anyway.)

This post is probably as close to politics as I'm willing to go and please don't discuss actual bishops and their failings under it.

However if you have any insight about which religious figures you project on the Valar, or in general how it all connects, you're welcome.

[happy-pearlae]

okay at this point i am planning an anthology of time travel fic

for the people who like what the flame left behind

do not worry i am just rewritting some plot points , adding fingolfin too early was mistake , so as soon as i finish my exam i will , if god is willing i am posting the rewrite (hopeefully this time with the whole fic planned , since now i am quite sure how it will end )

the rest will probably be one shots tho (unless they dont want to be you never know with fics )

elrond time travel with that makalaure rivalary (he just show up one day no one know who he is)

makalaure and artanis time travelling duo (and everyone think they have a romantic thing gfoing on , they dont , they are trying to save everyone stop alluding to marriage pleassse )

feanor pov of a time traveling makalaure ( witnessing his degrading physical and mental health ) ,

time traveling elrond with no laure rivalry , this one i am not sure about yet , i just wrote the first scene of elrond using maiar power to turn into a butterfly and went back in time , the scene is a council meeting and the finweans present notice that pretty butterfly ..........the BUTTERFLY DO OSWANE . Also this one have laure and galadriel having their future memories .

these i will try to post i parallel to the long fic

wich one do you guys want to see first of the one shots

[stitcherofchaos]

Maglor is an ISFJ

I haven't known any ISFJs in my life so this will be completely unbiased (also be against stereotypes, both negative and positive). There is also a note to be said that we do not know everything about Maglor's reasons or personal thoughts in the beginning of the book; personally, I think that alone is proof for this theory.

Dom Si users are strongly loyal to the past, including patterns, people, and/or ideas they recognize and are comfortable with. It may seem boring, but to them it's about consistency and familiarity.

Maglor's Si takes form in literally everything he does from the start. Following his family in their beliefs and actions, he doesn't question anything and submits to the leader of his family. First being Feanor, which is probably why he swore the oath and assisted in the burning of the ships from the beginning, then followed Maedhros after their father died. Maglor also was the artist behind the Noldolante which is a lament of The Doom of The Noldor and The First Kinslaying (Si memories of the past).

Then there is Fe which means you are more empathetic and considerate of the thoughts and feelings of others; but this does not mean you don't have your own thoughts or feelings. It means that you have a strong instinct about what is going on (or what is going to happen) due to the patterns of people you observe around you. This Fe is perhaps a strong influence to his decisions in the start of the story but especially in the middle when he slays Uldor. He figures out the intentions of Uldor before he could kill Maedhros and killed the traitor himself.

Ti is an utility function. It takes in information and seeks for the truth in difficult situations and/or questions. This is his third function so it's mostly ignored in favor of the top two functions but Maglor begins to use it at the end of the book when he starts to become weary and sorrowful.

Examples: He sees the star of Earendil, and hope sparks in his heart, because he figures out it's better there then in Middle Earth where evil can touch it. He argues with Maedhros his point of hope and possible redemption but submits to Maedhros's will due to his first function against his analytical judgment. Not only does he throws the Silmaril into the ocean due to the pain (spiritual, physical, and mental) he feels holding it, but also due to the confirmation that he has become a monster and the oath, the quest, his accomplishments in Middle Earth, were all for naught.

The rarely used Ne is in this picture. The last function is usually not used often so I believe wholeheartedly that Maglor uses his Ne mostly in regards to his songs- this is because the last function is usually used in short periods of times of inspiration and innovation. Then Elrond and Elros came into the picture and, unexpectedly, his Ne gives him the idea, "You can raise them, you had six brothers! You can do it! Who else do they have?"

Like I said in my Maedhros post, I don't like matching up personality traits with the stereotypical traits of each type. If I made any mistakes in this analysis, please correct me or add onto this as a reblog! If you have any character/mbti type ideas you want me to analyze, I'll be more than happy to!

[ohwolfling]

Your gale/mystra posts have my mind in overdrive rn. Thinking about Midnight and Implications... Like what if instead of Midnight = New Mystra, it's more like Mysta killed/absorbed Midnight in order to come back...

You know what, I love this because *I* think that the artist formerly known as Mystra is as controlling as she is because she doesn't realize that the Weave is overtaking her identity as a person. She has this sort of liminal chaos because she's less of a person every time. She thinks this is her choice, that she is merging with the Weave, and her followers believe as such. But I think the Weave actually might just inherently be a devouring thing. And what was once offerings of worship and energy to the Weave, magic in its purer forms, is more and more being corrupted into service of Mystra and the Weave feels hungrier and hungrier and hates her for it.

The symbol associated with Mystra is almost always 7 stars or a 7 sided star. DnD pulls a healthy amount from Tolkien, as all fantasy does. The flag of Gondor has seven stars, representing the 7 palantiri that came over from Numenor. The palantiri are made of a technically unknown material called silima, which is what gives them their magic properties and allows them to be used as seeing orbs slash communication devices. It's hard and luminescent and I think Fëanor's mistake in making them and being Fëanor was this ambitious, greedy thing where he probably made them FROM stars. I don't know that it would be a one for one inspiration, but certainly the star stuff would've come from those fantasy sources and regardless I AM CHOOSING TO BELIEVE MYSTRA IS FEANOR CODED.

[exercise-of-trust]

hello! I recently stumbled upon this delightful ask of yours about the tengwar, but at the beginning of it you mention an excellent feanor/nerdanel fic by lintamande. do you maybe still remember which fic you were talking about? I've been trying to track it down, but it doesn't seem to be on their ao3, and their tumblr has a lot of different small fics spread across many individual posts, and I was unable to find any multi-chapter feanor/nerdanel fic (since you said it's consistenly A++ I assumed it's a longer fic)

/exercise-of-trust/175077279967/right-this-is-probably-going-to-be-a-lot-of-parts

oh the war flashbacks i just had to being 16 and so incredibly stupid. sorry, anon, i need to take like 5 minutes to just stare at the wall and contemplate my mistakes. (i’m still pro-þ, and loudly so, but having actually taken some ling classes in the intervening six years i no longer stand by the vast majority of that specific rant. oh god. i was so fucking stupid. anyway!)

unfortunately, your actual question also does not have a great answer: as far as i can recall there was no specific fic i was talking about there. by “their fic is consistently a++” i think i meant “their feanor/nerdanel flash fics are all good,” not “there’s a single fic with good chapters.” i wish i had better news for you! and PLEASE come back if you ever have some other feanor/nerdanel longfics you’d like to rec; the state of the tag is frankly dire and i am languishing in the trenches beside you on this one.

[raina16]

I do think bringing them to Valinor was a mistake, perhaps a well meaning one at first(lol I'm not a fan of the Valar) but imo it's not where they were meant to be. As I recall Christopher Tolkien had a note about Feanor's singularity being important to his father, at first he was supposed to be the first born of the Eldar(the first born to elf parents, not an unbegotten), that was dropped but he was still supposed to be the first child born in Valinor, which imo, could mean maybe he wasn't "meant" to be born there at all and that's what caused the issue with Mìriel's health.

To my mind his spirit was created to live in a "marred" world, to face it's challenges. He was one of Illuvatar's answers to Melkor's twisting of creation, one of those things of beauty and greatness that appears in reaction to Melkor's discordancy. While the Valar interpreted it negatively because they didn't know what to do or what it meant, he wasn't especially marred, Mìriel wasn't especially marred, he just wasn't made for "perfect" Valinor, he was meant for imperfect Middle Earth, and this affected Mìriel as well because in this scenario the light of the trees probably caused some sort of reaction, like a spiritual imbalance. I mean if you want to put a sort of Tolkien specific spin on it, as an equivalent for post-partum depression.

So they just doubled down on their mistake instead of going "you know what, maybe uh maybe we shouldn't have brought them here, maybe Illuvatar has this Middle Earth situation in hand." So after centuries of being stifled, having done as much as he could do in a perfect land, all that energy of mind and body turned destructive, to Feanor himself as much as anyone else.

Lol maybe the reason he won't be seen until the end isn't because of his crimes and being "punished" in Mandos but because Illuvatar is like "you wrecked my special blorbo's life enough already, you're not getting him back until I decide you deserve him."😜

I think Fëanor would get along well with Men.

He’s an inventor right. A mad scientist amongst the elves and no doubt believes they grow stagnant far too easily with how little innovation there is, I mean look what happens after he’s killed. Not only in terms of *things* but also with art and general creativity. No wonder he felt stifled. No wonder he was so desperate to leave.

Then along come these ‘lesser beings.’

And they might be physically weaker, prone to sickness, and die quickly. But there’s a *spark* within them to learn. To constantly push boundaries and even break them. Elves’ immortality makes them slow to progress, whilst he sees the race of Man working so fervently, so passionately that in the span of a human lifetime they manage to create and advance more than the elves have over literal Ages.

Like I’m thinking of Fëanor in the modern day seeing spacecraft and electricity and chemistry and forms of communications the Eldar can’t even begin to imagine. I honestly think he’d thrive to the point he wouldn’t even want to return to Valinor (AU anyone? 😂)

What the elves call ‘mad’, humans see as opportunity. As a challenge. Just like him.

But even in ME canon, I think he’d have a lot of fun working with them, just like he’d have a lot of fun working with Dwarves. And they’d create incredible things together.

[tolkien-feels]

(I am deeply, deeply sorry for this wall of text lmao)

So the thing about why people don’t like Thingol (and I promise I’m engaging in good faith because iirc you said you really wanted to know) is actually kind of the same thing about Denethor: it matters how you treat people when you’re at a low point.

What I mean by this is that both Thingol and Denethor get defended by people who act as if it’s perfectly understandable for them to be in a bad mood/tired/stressed/etc and then say rude and insensitive things or get into arguments where the power imbalance allows them to behave however they like, and then argue that they’ve just spoken in anger or they’ve behaved in an uncharacteristic way because of their bad mood or ignorance or what have you. I’ve never really understood that, because how you treat people when you’re at your worst is, to me, indicative of the true quality of your character? If you care enough about being compassionate and being a fair and just ruler, you’ll self-regulate and maintain self-control and you won’t snap or say things you don’t mean.

And the books seem to support this - Théoden and Aragorn and and Éomer and Imrahil don’t behave as Denethor does, and Nolofinwë and Findaráto and Maitimo and Turukáno don’t behave as Thingol does. (Maitimo might do some war crimes and Findaráto might do some colonialism, but they’re not openly racist or xenophobic and they never possibly-maybe allowed a political rival to die so that their claim to kingship would be unchallenged, see Denethor of the Laiquendi) They’re all very different people, and all under immense amounts of stress in varying ways for long periods of time, and none of them respond to being pushed past their limit by becoming hostile to those around them.

As a result, the question of why those two people behave the way they do becomes relevant, and examining their further actions doesn’t actually give any purely textual proof that they’re altruistic, otherwise kind, genuinely compassionate people. Thingol names Dior as his heir but isn’t exactly going to visit his human relatives, and he doesn’t protect Túrin from the ableist and xenophobic microaggressions that are a constant in Doriath. Denethor never participates in the morale-building that Imrahil dedicates himself to during the Siege, and it’s Imrahil who leads his own personal guard to rescue Faramir (It’s theorized by characters in the text that Denethor authorized this but never explicitly confirmed). What’s in the story is just as likely to point to their lowest point being indicative of their true selves as it is to point to anything else. There’s certainly room to interpret them as “complex” in a way that means “actual good people who make various mistakes for understandable reasons”, but it’s much more of an interpretation than the objective clearly obvious canon.

Basically I think that how you see these people is entirely dependent on if you think that the idea of being “not yourself” when you’re stressed is legitimate - if you do, then using someone’s lowest points as proof of who they are is unfair, and if you don’t, then those same points are the places where they’re the most honest with themselves and the audience.

(For context, anon is answering this post)

Putting my reply under a cut just for the sake of length

I really appreciate you taking the time to write this, and I would agree with a lot of what you're saying. I am making no claim that Thingol is a role model, and I'm not sure I would particularly want to spend much time with him, because a lot of his bad qualities which you've mentioned are things I can't really stand in people irl (ditto for Denethor. Ditto even for Feanor, who I love to death!)

Also, as a matter of fact, I also don't think Thingol's bad behavior is restricted to Leithian, not by any means! There it's just clearest, and this story is probably the most famous.

My point, though (which in retrospect I didn't make super clear) is that I don't think a lot of Silm fans specifically go for characters who are unquestionably good, likable heroes. Like, in the top 10 most used character tags on ao3 (not that I use ao3, but it's convenient for data) we have Feanor, Sauron, Celegorm, Morgoth - not people I think you can look at and say "Oh yes, definitely people who are both good and likable!" (And I would argue the same of absolute fandom favorite Maedhros, but that's more YMMV)

The take I see most often wrt to Thingol, though, is not even "A complex asshole" (which I would be fine with), but rather "Not complex enough to be interesting" which is what I find frustrating. I find him one of the most complex people canon has to offer without needing a pile of "not canon but not contradicted by canon" headcanons.

And again, I don't think everybody should like my faves, and Thingol is not one of my faves anyway, but I wish he was not reduced to one-dimensional personification of That Guy you roll your eyes all the time at. Because whether you see him as ultimately noble or ultimately horrible, either way he does canonically have many dimensions!

I don't feel like I'm making any sense but my brain is mush today so that's as eloquent as I can be right now, sorry. But yeah, I don't think Thingol is necessarily a great guy, but I do think he is a very layered guy and while I don't particularly care whether he's appreciated as a person, I wish he was better appreciated as a well-written character, if that makes sense

[daywillcomeagain]

But Personally acting like finarfin is this visionary for doing nothing but sit comfortably for years in Valinor along with the vanyar and teleri and then coming over during the war of the wrath while the Noldor who went over died protecting the realm with the actual support of the gods. I’m sure if the Valar had the beleriand Noldor back than the silm would have been over real fast. Implying that finarafin made the right choice is the same as saying that the other Noldor did not and thats wrong

I’m not trying to imply that Finarfin is a visionary; I’m sorry if I’ve come across that way. I like to think that I’ve been clear that I don’t know if Finarfin made the right choice or not, and that I think that there are multiple valid arguments there. All I’ve been trying to say is that I think Finarfin is an understandable character who did his best, just like every other character in the Silmarillion. 

If you’d like to see my posts implying that other characters who make mistakes did nothing wrong: 

the King’s Men of Numenor (there’s probably more of these i just.... really love them ok)

(on the flip side, less morally gray but just to show that I absolutely do this for people on both sides: the Faithful!)

maeglin

feanor (plus the post I linked in my previous reply)

But overall I think mostly I disagree with your last sentence really, really fundamentally: “Implying that finarafin made the right choice is the same as saying that the other Noldor did not” is absolutely not something I agree with.

I will defend the choices of Manwe and Feanor and Maedhros and Elwing and Galadriel and Turin and Nerdanel and Fingolfin and Amrod and Turgon and Aegnor and Maeglin and Aredhel and Idril and Finwe and basically everyone--not as “always correct” but as “this is a fundamentally good person who is trying their best and making reasonable and understandable choices in a difficult and often traumatizing situation”. These come into conflict sometimes and-- I think that one of the strengths of the Silmarillion is how it gives us dozens and dozens of characters, lots of whom are opposed, some of whom kill each other, and it says “yes, these characters are all flawed, they all make mistakes, but fundamentally, they are all good, understandable, sympathetic people in a lot of pain trying their best in an awful situation”. You can read them all as awful, if you prefer; I’d be able to make that case just as well. You can read Finarfin as just wanting peace and comfort in Valinor, you can read Feanor & sons as bloodthirsty revenge-seekers, you can read Fingolfin as foolhardy and suicidal, you can read Finrod as a genocidal colonialist only caring about his own glory and Maeglin as a gleeful traitor waiting for the chance to rape his cousin and Manwe as uncaring and apathetic. But.... I don’t want to? If people want to make those arguments, I’m not going to argue with them, but I’m not interested. I don’t have to choose which characters I think are right and which characters I think are wrong! I can love them all! I can think that they all made hard and personal and heroic decisions, even when they come into conflict, even when some of them are mistakes!

I have a whole tag on how beautiful I think martyrdom is. I think that the Noldor who left for Beleriand were doing the right thing, to the point where I’ve seriously entertained arguments about whether the first kinslaying could have been justified. I am totally willing to write posts just as long as this one or the last about how much I absolutely adore Fingolfin.

It’s also relevant that -- I talk about trauma, a lot, when I talk about the Silmarillion, because I can’t not, because the Silmarillion is... really fundamentally about trauma. If I say “this is a fine and normal response to trauma” I’m not... trying to say that it’s the Only acceptable response to trauma? I’m trying to say that it is Within The Range Of Okay And Normal And Valid Responses. i’m trying to say-- this is a hard and personal thing, there are different kinds of bravery and I love that Tolkien celebrates them all. i tried to express a similar thing in a post i made a while ago about martyrdom, but i’m sorry if I failed. I-- in no case, when I say “I love this character, I think this character made understandable and beautiful and good choices” am I trying to say “I think that characters who made other choices are wrong and unthinkable and bad”. Different characters do different things and explore different themes and that’s all okay and I love them all.

I won’t be accepting any more anon asks about this subject; I am always open to conversation. I prefer DMs, or you can ask for my discord, but I think that tumblr asks are very much not the right medium for an extended conversation about this. If anyone, on any side of this, would like to discuss things with me, I love talking about this stuff, but extended “[3 sentence anon ask]” “[multiple paragraph reply with quotes and sources]” is, imo, exhausting and unproductive on both sides. If you’re anon because you’re concerned about me judging or mocking you, or publicizing your name, I am absolutely willing to promise not to do any of these things.

[wearetakingthehobbitstogallifrey]

BTS Members as the Sons of Feanor

OH MY GOSH WHAT THE HECK

so @thelonelybrilliance just showed up late to the Silmarillion and new to BTS and she decided to break my brain by tagging me and @abadpoetwithdreams asking us if we could match up the 7 members of BTS with the 7 sons of Feanor. May she never ask such a question again because I have spent about 6 hours total writing this rant essay that is somewhere of abouts 3500 words. I don’t have the self-control to stop myself from things like this, I love Tolkien and BTS too much

anyway here is a very long and rambling post that was partially composed in my head in the shower and is now just stream of consciousness

(Disclaimer: The members of BTS are beautiful souls and this post is in no way saying that they are as murderous as my problematic faves the sons of Feanor)

ok so the only thing I know for ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN is that Namjoon is Maedhros. if you know anything at all about BTS and the Feanorians, the reasons are obvious:

1. Namjoon is the tallest, and Maedhros is literally called Maedhros the Tall.

2. Maedhros has a lot of names but he was called Maitimo by his mom which means “beautiful” or “well-shaped one” and such an appellation is perfect for Namjoon (ok let’s be real the name could fit every single member of BTS but whatever)

3. (and most important!) never was there a more harried elf trying to keep his brothers in line and alive and not cut to pieces by some justifiably insulted cousin or Sindarin. Maedhros is the mom, the dad, the king, the leader, the eldest bro. “Guys, can we NOT be rude to the sons of Finarfin, can we NOT start a war among the Noldor when we still have Morgoth just across the way” I’m pretty sure he would also lose his passport multiple times if Middle-earth had such things, because his brothers are hard enough to keep track of. while Namjoon may not be the eldest in years, everything else matches up too perfectly. He is the leader of BTS, the spokesman, the one who encourages the other members to step up and speak, helps them with their English (even when he judges them for their dumb mistakes lol), is literally SO DONE with his bros all the time but loves them so freaking much. He is the planner, the peace-maker, yet also has fire in his veins and has seen a lot of darkness and suffering and survived to become even stronger. So too with Namjoon

(caveat: if BTS were Feanorians, and Namjoon captured by Morgoth himself, there is no freaking way they wouldn’t have done SOMETHING to rescue their fearless leader. Jin and Jungkook would storm Thangorodrim fists swinging, followed by Jimin and J-Hope, fierce like you’ve never seen them, and Taehyung would Luthien Tinuviel Morgoth centuries early, or Yoongi would simply glare at Morgoth till he shrank down into a puddle of trembling goo. Don’t laugh at me you know I’m right)

moving on

I have maybe two choices for Maglor? One is Jin, but that might partially be because everyone always talks about how Namjoon and Jin are the mom and dad or dad and mom of BTS. and Maglor is always paired in my head with Maedhros as the other parental figure of the Feanorian bros, though that might be because of how he and Maedhros look after Elrond and Elros. Of course, I love Jin’s singing and I will never ever ever be over “Epiphany”, so I am way cool with making Jin Maglor as far as the music thing goes

All this said, I am not sure if this is the best fit overall. Jin is the King of Chaos in BTS, and I wouldn’t name Maglor as such...also I think I might have another Feanorian for Jin, but I’ll get to that later (spoilers, it’s...Curufin??!) (oh no, I just realized I might have one other argument for Jin being Maglor: “I use other people to make myself happy. I make myself smile by making others smile.” Like, that could be a good quote for Maglor potentially, if you want to relate it to his music, or his care for Elrond and Elros……..but I’m still thinking Curufin for Jin. Stay tuned)

So anyway my other option for Maglor would be...oh heck no I have two other options. No wait THREE. What the HECK. ok let me figure this out. The options are J-Hope, Yoongi, and Jimin. I’m not even sure why yet so let’s find out. (sidenote: if Maedhros did not exist Namjoon the song-writer would be Maglor, as the greatest poet and bard)

1.  J-Hope as Maglor: I don’t know, I had reasons but they are escaping me. Maglor is said to have had a gentler temperament than his brothers and I would say J-Hope has a very soft sunshine heart. I guess one thing is that Maglor was left to hold everybody together when Maedhros was captured by Morgoth, and if Namjoon was ever hung on a cliff for an indeterminate amount of time or whatever equals that in our world, J-Hope would step up. I keep seeing things about how he supports the other members when they are having tough times, giving them encouragement and food and love. He leads them in practicing dance choreography all the time, and if I remember I am pretty sure Namjoon actually stated that Hoseok would make a good group leader. 

Also one time Namjoon was talking about Hobi (oh shoot, should J-Hope of the many names be Maedhros of the many names? Lol maybe in that one universe where Namjoon is Maglor, then Hobi could could be Maedhros) Namjoon says that J-Hope is like water (where did Maglor toss his Silmaril again hmm?) and puts people at ease. Well idk about other people but Maglor seems to have put Elrond and Elros at ease because even after that whole Kinslaying thing “love grew between them as little might be thought.” I too would probably come to love J-Hope no matter the past between us. He is just that sweet and soft-hearted

2.  Yoongi as Maglor: ok honestly I really really actually want Yoongi for Caranthir, more on that later. However I also like Yoongi as Maglor because it is unexpected, yet certain things just feel right. I keep thinking about Yoongi’s “First Love” where he raps about how his PIANO was his first love (GOSH ISN’T THAT THE SWEETEST THING EVER) also in Lee Sora’s “Song Request” he raps this: “I’m happiness to someone and the soul to another / A lullaby to someone and at times a noise / I’ll be with you at your birth and your end / Remember we’re always together anywhere / I’ll always console your life / So just lean on me and rest sometimes” and LOOK I JUST DIED TYPING THIS but what I am getting at is music is burnt into Yoongi’s soul as I think it is Maglor’s, and Yoongi really is very soft and loving and also one time Namjoon said that Yoongi “makes me ponder about what kind of person I am” and Maglor several times is a voice of reason and very much tries to dissuade Maedhros from going after the Silmarils one last time. Idk it could work (but also...CARANTHIR) (BUT ALSO OMG YOONGI’S VOICE MURDERS ME WHEN HE RAPS AND HIS PASSION WOW AND NOW I AM PICTURING MODERN DAY MAGLOR RAPPING  OBLIQUELY ABOUT HIS FAMILY AND PAST AND PAIN UGGGGGGGHHHH

3.  Who was my other choice? Right, Jimin. Why did I say Jimin?? ? i don’t remember, dang it

Ok I think it is definitely time to do Caranthir.

As previously stated, I love Yoongi as Caranthir. I have my reasons personally I think they are very good reasons :D Ok Caranthir is WOW ok I am OFFENDED because I just went to double-check something on wikipedia and I typed Caranthir into the Google search engine and the first three results were all about this Caranthir dude from the Witcher, and while that game seems very interesting I am UPSET for Yoongi’s I mean Caranthir the Dark’s sake.

AHEM

Caranthir the Dark. What a name. I mean it might just be a reference to his father-name of Morifinwe and to his hair, but he is also described as being the harshest and quickest to anger. Yoongi, bless his soul and his actually very soft and squishy heart, is well known for: being unbothered by BTS general antics, for being the one to sit back and watch everyone else do dumb stuff (like when they were all dancing to MIC drop and he just walks away from them, or when they are all acting like kids jumping in the pool and he just watches with a smile on his face while drinking a glass of wine and look to me Caranthir is the one Feanorian who doesn’t pair up with anyone in particular, like we have Maedhros and Maglor, Celegorm and Curufin, Amrod and Amras, but Caranthir is the one who goes off and lives separate from them and

GOSH now I sound so dumb because I am NOT trying to say that Caranthir doesn’t love his bros or that Yoongi is a loner that is NOT what I am saying, agh I mean Caranthir is great (minus, you know, the kin-slayings the Feanorians sadly fall into) and even befriends Haleth’s people and protects them, t’s just this weird categorizing thing in my head, that Caranthir is the crusty brother, and while he loves his bros to DEATH and they him, the majority of his bros are sliiiiightly afraid of him, in a brotherly way, like how the members are with Yoongi! Like just recently oh what was it, they were on a BTS Run episode and someone had to splash or otherwise give Yoongi a penalty and right away everyone was like NAMJOON YOU DO IT. turning to the leader hyung because they don’t want Yoongi to be mad at them

Of course now I am remembering that one post of gifs demonstrating how Jungkook is the only one who can bother Yoongi without dying lol except NOW I am picturing Amrod the youngest Feanorian* being the only one who can bother Caranthir and then the ensuing PAIN because Amrod Umbarto (thanks for THAT name, Mom) perishes (in certain canon) in flames at the Burning of the Ships and wowwww no I do not need any of this pain

*SIDENOTE: AMROD IS THE YOUNGEST IN CERTAIN CANON WHICH CONFUSES THINGS A HECK OF A LOT SEE THE AMROD AND AMRAS SECTION BELOW

I’m pretty sure I have never rambled so much in my life and also pretty sure I have way too many parentheses and not all of them are closed oops

Anyway, imagine Caranthir as the brother you are afraid of but would die for and who would die for you if anyone looks at you wrong, the brother with the wry acerbic wit, but who LITERALLY LIGHTS UP THE UNIVERSE WITH HIS SMILE AND ALSO DOESN’T EXPRESS HIS LOVE ALOUD AS OFTEN AS SOME OF YOUR BROTHERS DO BUT

HE SECRETLY LOVES PHYSICAL CONTACT AT TIMES AND ALSO SECRETLY LOVES PIGGY-BACK RIDES EVEN THO HE PROFESSES TO HATE THEM AND GIVES OUT WISE LIFE ADVICE TO HIS BROS AND HIS PEOPLE AND IS SUCH A SOFTIE FOR HIS BROS AND OCCASIONALLY SENDS ONE OF HIS BABY BROS LONG LETTERS WITH A SIMPLE “I LOVE YOU” AT THE END THAT HAS CELEGORM OR AMROD CRYING FOR TEN MINUTES (HAHAHA GUESS WHO I THINK TAEHYUNG WOULD BE)

Also someone has to be the best cook of the Feanorians and it might as well be Caranthir

….apparently I’m not done with Caranthir, because “the Dark” also makes me think of a dark horse, or at least something happening that is unexpected, and that reminds me of that interview where dad/mom/interpreter Namjoon was like yeah none of the other members can speak English, and then Yoongi just out of NOWHERE speaks a line of great English and Namjoon was like ….guess I was wrong

OKAAAAY WHERE ARE WE

I do not have very clear thoughts about who the rest of the members are so let’s just go with my brain and hope it makes some good connections

Let’s do Celegorm since I just mentioned him

Celegorm could be either Taehyung or….Jin? :? Merrr idk. Let’s examine

I think the main reason why I jump at the option of Tae for Celegorm is because of Tae’s love for his dog Yeontan, or Tan, and of course Celegorm is the master of Huan, and they had a very special relationship for ages until Celegorm f---ed up. Seriously, you want to see something cute? Look up Tae’s Vlive that is entirely focused on his lil pupper (what am I saying look up ANYTHING about Tae and you will find something cute)

On the other hand Jin could be Celegorm because Celegorm is known as the Fair and if you don’t know by now that Jin is World Wide Handsome I don’t know how I can help you

OMG WAIT I JUST THOUGHT OF OTHER REASONS WHY JIN COULD BE CELEGORM! So Celegorm’s father-name is Turcafinwë, which basically means “strong in body” and Jin has got those broad shoulders (gosh they are so broad). Also, Celegorm’s mother-name is Tyelkormo, or “hasty riser,” referring to his quick temper and habit of leaping when angered. And this doesn’t perfectly relate but the amount of times I have seen Jin yelling or just being wild in general or even just pretending to be mad makes me think of this. Also there was one time idk what was even going on but Jin was struggling to pronounce Bangtansonyeon-dan (SAME) and saying it was too long and difficult and J-Hope was teasing him and Namjoon told him not to get mad since he had been calling himself a fairy and shouldn’t be mad as such, and Jin was like hey I can be a mad fairy if I want lol

See now I am just confused because now I am looking back at Jin as Maglor and I might like that better? WHY IS THIS SO HARD

Speaking of Jin, and Celegorm, why on EARTH was I thinking of Jin for Curufin? Ugggh see my problem is I ran out of time last night and so I am finishing the essay some 20 hours later and I kNOW that when I was saying Jin should be Curufin I had a better reason then their names rhyme. Heck, I could make that same argument for Jimin as Curufin.

Except I also have a second and better argument for Jimin as Curufin, at least under the circumstance where Taehyung is Celegorm. Look, all the BTS members are really close with each other, and you can literally argue all day about who is closer to who (a really pointless waste of time in my opinion I mean why argue when you can just melt over them all being sweet and funny and kind and teasing with each other) but anyway all that aside one thing I love in particular is how sweet Jimin and Taehyung often are with each other, holding hands and comforting each other and being on teams in competitions *starts laughing at the memory of them being complete disasters that one cooking show* and anyway Celegorm and Curufin seem pretty inseparable, running around causing all kinds of trouble (guys sTOP). Jimin and Taehyung have called themselves soulmates, so it makes sense to have them be part of a duo

Not that Taehyung would engage in a kidnapping stunt like Celegorm did, but the point is, Jimin, the precious bby, has Tae’s back

Jimin: “Taehyung is the happiest when he is with me” aww

This has nothing to do with the point of this post but I just need to stop here and say that Jimin is so freaking talented I was just looking up some gifsets of him and obviously his singing is angelic but also OMGGG his dancing!!!

Ok, jumping back slightly, I guess one way Jin could be Curufin is if Jungkook is Celegorm, because I could see those beautiful dorks running around causing all kinds of trouble, except I really have no reason to have Jungkook be Celegorm, especially since he is very much Amras in my head for reasons

OOOH NO I also thought of a way in which Jungkook could be--wait for it--cURUFIN. WHY AM I LIKE THIS

You see, Curufin was his dad’s favorite son and thus Feanor gave his favorite son the exact same father-name Feanor had, Curufinwë, and Curufin is the only son who chose to use his father-name over his mother-name if I recall, and anyway all meaning he probably loved his dad a lot and was proud of his name, and this makes me think of how Namjoon gave Jungkook the title of the Golden Maknae and of how freaking much Jungkook looks up to and respects Namjoon (look while Namjoon is a hyung, he is also a dad figure, so he may as well be Feanor and Maedhros both)

I guess if Jungkook were Curufin, Jin could go back to being Celegorm

Aaaaggggh you do not know how much hair I have pulled out this is taking a lot of brainwork

FINALLY AT THE LAST TWO

We now present my exceedingly confused ramblings regarding the twins Amrod and Amras. Before we begin, let me SHAKE MY FIST AT TOLKIEN FOR MAKING THIS ESSAY EVEN MORE CONFUSING TO WRITE

See, I had Jungkook all set up in my head as Amras, the youngest son according to the Silmarillion. Jungkook is the maknae, the baby, and all the members DOTE on him and he loves them and respects them and pesters them and it’s great, so yeah Jungkook has to be Amras the baby of the Feanorians. I would then put Taehyung as Amrod, the just barely older bby who the other members also adore and protect. Jungkook and Taehyung are SO FREAKING CUTE whenever they are doing stuff together, whether it is singing or hugging or holding each other on their backs while they singing. When they goof off together or pester each other, they are the most precious, must dorkiest dorks to ever be my faves. Hence why I pair them together in my head as Amrod and Amras, at least the times when I am not pairing Tae with Jimin or Jungkook with Jin. Amrad and Amras seem as inseparable as Celegorm and Curufin, and they go off and live in some beautiful wild part of the land and basically stick to hunting and staying out of everyone’s business until they get reminded they took a stupid oath

EXCEPT then Tolkien has one alternate writing where the youngest is actually AMROD and Amrod dies at the burning of the ships because Feanor doesn’t know how to count his kids I guess (Namjoon you lost something again) (sorry that is a terrible joke) (but is it made slightly better by the fact that while Namjoon is apparently Feanor he is much more Maedhros, who was against the burning of the ships and did not participate?) so like this is where I started to get my third headache (exacerbated by the fact that I haven’t eaten dinner yet and it is 9 pm what is wrong with me) because then I have to make Jungkook Amrod and Taehyung Amras. It’s such a trial having to write both their names next to both Feanorians

On the other hand, an interesting thing to think about is that in this alternate writing, Amras was so aggrieved by his brother’s death that he called out Feanor--Feanor!--for being so dumb as to A. call or let his wife call their youngest by the name of Umbarto (the Fated) and then to B. accidentally let him perish in a fire that FEANOR started because he had a grudge (and I think Tolkien wrote that that Amrod was possibly sleeping on the ships because he was upset with Feanor for the terrible deeds he was committing, so like, double way to go Feanor)

I am really tired and hungry my head hurts

What am I missing?

I like Taehyung and Jungkook best for Amrod and Amras a lot BUT if I were doing one of the other options above, I could see having the follow lineup:

Jin=Celegorm, Jungkook= Curufin, Jimin=Amrod, Taehyung=Amras

In this instance, I could see Jimin and Tae as either Amrod or Amras no matter which one is older. Taehyung could definitely be the bby and do his own thing but could also be the brother who mourns his brother and calls out Feanor. Actually though Jimin while being young and precious gives me more of an older brother vibe than Taehyung does, so I guess I would have Jimin be the elder of the twins. Yes, that makes more sense

UGH but wait if I put Jimin and Tae as Curufin and Celegorm, I could put Jungkook back as youngest bby Amrod or Amras, but would Jin fit into the older twin role? Maaaaybe, if you just think about Jungkook and Jin heading off by themselves and goofing off...I don’t like it as much though

Possibilities So Far

Maedhros: Namjoon, maybe J-Hope?

Maglor: Jin, J-Hope, Yoongi, maybe Namjoon

Caranthir: Yoongi

Celegorm: Taehyung, Jin

Curufin: Jimin, Jungkook

Amrod: Taehyung, Jungkook, Jimin

Amras: Jungkook, Taehyung, Jimin

……………………….

I have spent five minutes now trying to figure out possible final line-ups but it’s all a mess

I  LITERALLY CAN’T THINK ANYMORE

I DECLARE THIS ESSAY/RANT HAS COME TO AN END

PLEASE CHELSEA SEND HELP!

WHAT AM I MISSING/HAVE WRONG? IS THERE A BETTER SPOT FOR J-HOPE? SHOULD SOMEONE ELSE BE CARANTHIR? COULD JIN BE A CARANTHIR IN SOME WAY?? (I THINK I COULD HAVE THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT BUT I AM TOO TIRED TO THINK THEM)

[arianaofimladris]

Encounters

I wrote another little fluffy piece to accompany the two I posted some time ago. The Previous two are available here: http://arianaofimladris.tumblr.com/post/174939648847/family-reunions

Encounters

 A ship coming from Middle-earth was something that always attracted attention, now more than ever, as many of the Exiles who still dwelt there had come in the past few decades. There were still elves waiting for their families and friends to come, but fewer came to havens to wait and see if any of their kin were on board of the approaching ship.

Much to the Teleri’s relief, the eldest son of Feanor ceased coming, now that he had his missing brother back, but his two youngest visited the shores whenever a ship would come. They were not waiting for anyone particular, they were just curious, especially after seeing the unusual companions Elrond and Galadriel had brought with them. Amras and Amrod could hardly pass unnoticed, but they  caused no trouble, so no one really paid much attention to them.

They came as usual when a new ship appeared on the horizon. It was one of the smaller, meaning it carried only a few passengers. Those ships were quite popular these days, unlike in the past, when sometimes hundreds would come in span of just a few decades.

“Look.” Amras elbowed his brother, pointing at two dark-haired elves standing on the deck and looking around in wonder. There was no mistaking; their resemblance to Elrond was too great.

The youngest sons of Feanor exchanged glances. Twins were extremely rare among the elves and they were eager to meet Elrond’s sons since they had first heard about them.

“You!” A sharp, angry call directed obviously to them made them look left. They saw another elf appearing by the sons of Elrond. His posture was regal, his silver hair pulled back and tied in a practical manner.

Amrod glanced questioningly at his brother, who shrugged.

“I gather we must have met, however, I do not recall having been introduced to you,” said Amras lightly, though he could feel his twin tense beside him.

“Celeborn,” replied the elf stiffly. “I never expected to see Kinslayers greeting those coming from Middle-earth,” he added with disgust.

“Ah, you are Nerwen’s husband. That explains a lot,” muttered Amrod. “I must say your daughter is much more accepting.”

“You’ve seen our nana?” asked one of the twins on the deck, brightening up with hope. “How’s she?” Two quick steps and he was on the plank, ready to run down on the shore.

“Delighted to have Elrond every time we have a chance to see her,” replied Amras, pointedly ignoring Celeborn. “And she will be even more to see you. We can show you the way if you wish,” he offered.

“Elladan!” Barked Celeborn, stopping his grandson mid-step. “Wait. I will not have you two follow strangers in a foreign land, let alone kinslayers.”

“Whatever you may call me, do not transfer it on my twin,” hissed Amras. “He’s no worse than your wife.”

“Are we going to continue that?” The other twin, Elrohir, moved closer to his brother. “I’m sure we can leave family grudges for later. I will be perfectly fine with seeing our parents. Though I suspect we could just start with introductions,” he suggested with amusement.

“Ambarussa,” replied both redhead twins and grinned.

“I’m Amras.”

“Amrod,” added the other more carefully, still not completely at ease with Sindarin.

“Elrohir Elrondion. This is my brother Elladan.”

“You said you met our parents,”  said Elladan. “Perhaps you can tell us then, why they have not come to greet us?”

“They would have, but they received the news of your arrival too late to make it to the haven in time,” explained Amras. “They went to visit our mother, that’s how we learned about your arrival.”

“Mother passed to us that Elrond and Celebrian will head straight home and they asked us to guide you.”

“Then by all means, lead the way!” Elladan easily ran down the plank. Elrohir followed him, limping slightly.

The twin sons of Feanor glanced at the newcomers questioningly, but Elrohir only laughed. “Middle-earth wasn’t so eager to let us go,” he explained lightly.

“We rode on our last trips along the shores and Ro just happened to fall off his horse,” smirked Elladan and offered his brother a hand to help him down.

“It was only my horse that got startled because I left you far behind me,” his brother reminded him. “He’s hopeless at racing,” he muttered conspiratorially to the sons of Feanor.

“So is he,” nodded Amras in understanding, pointing at his twin. Both Amrod and Elladan shared an exasperated look and rolled their eyes.

“We should probably take care of our luggage,” remarked Elladan, glancing reluctantly at Celeborn on the deck. “We’ve brought most of the things our father had left behind.”

“And the rest he probably forgot to pack,” smiled Elrohir. “We’ll have to arrange some transport.”

“Leave it to the Teleri,” suggested Amrod. “They are used to dealing with elves coming from Middle-earth. Just pass a word that you will be staying with Elrond and Celebrian and they will deliver your things there.”

Celeborn still eyed them with distrust plain on his features, but he said nothing as his grandsons followed the sons of Feanor. Seeing how eager Elladan and Elrohir were to see their parents, Amras suspected that any objections would have been pointless.

Just like Amrod had said, they easily arranged a wagon that would bring their belongings the following day. There was no point in waiting for the ship to be unloaded and, much to the amusement of Elrond’s sons, neither Amras nor Amrod wished to stay and see if their cousin intended to come and greet her husband.

As Celebrian’s house was quite far away from the haven, Amrod offered his horse to the twins and nodded encouragingly as Elrohir sent him a grateful smile. Feeling the hold of his twin on his waist, as they were now sharing a horse, Amras couldn’t help but feel excited. Elrond was a lovely company and they were all grateful for him bringing Maglor back home, but his sons seemed to be more restless souls. Perhaps they would be willing to join them and go explore Valinor... It would be a nice change.

They rode mostly in silence,  Elladan and Elrohir looking around wide-eyed, enjoying the new sights. For the sons of Feanor they looked as alike Elrond as Curufin was

“I don’t think we should go with them,” whispered Amrod to his twin. “Let them...”

“Nonsense.” Elladan turned back to look at them. “I gather we are going to have a lot of time to learn what has been going on since we parted with our father in Middle-earth.”

“Not to mention the fact that we are extremely curious why you seem to dislike our grandmother so.”

Amrod groaned. “And here I thought you said something about leaving our family grudges for later?”

“Very well,” laughed Elrohir. “I bet we will learn that soon enough.”

“Oh, you will,” muttered Amras under his breath.

They travelled most of the afternoon through the mild hills that rose slowly behind the high cliffs of the havens. Much to Maedhros’s displeasure, Celebrian lived quite far from Tirion and she and no intention of moving any closer. As Elrond too sought rest after having come from Middle-earth, they stayed.

“Looks homely,” remarked Elladan as the house they were heading to appeared between the trees. “Not quite so hidden, but...”

“Oh, it’s hidden and way too away for some,” snickered Amras. “Russo’s been complaining. That is Maedhros, our brother.”

:Surely he can easily spare a day or two for travel if he wants to see our parents?” asked Elrohir with amusement.

“Have I ever called any of them patient?” A clear voice, full of joy and mirth came from behind the trees. “But today I dare say I understand Maedhros.”

“You did take your time.”

The sons of Elrond stopped their horse, Elladan already jumping from the saddle, Elrohir following him close. Tears of joy shone in their eyes as Elrond and Celebrian stepped on the road from a narrow path that led to a stream. Amrod whistled softly at his horse and poked his brother. They moved away, knowing all too well what it was like to wait for being reunited with someone they loved. Some of them had waited a very long time.

Elladan and Elrohir were long since grown, but as they approached their mother, they looked very young and overwhelmed, like children returning home from their very first trip on their own. Tall as she was, Celebrian all but disappeared in their embrace.

“Naneth...”

Celebrian hugged them back, then climbed on her toes and kissed their brows, her own eyes shining and smiling, but dry. She looked so much like Nerdanel the first time she saw her six sons released from the Halls of Mandos that Amrod instinctively put his arm around his twin; he had known the pain of parting too well.

“I guess you no longer need our guidance,” said Amras after a while, when Elrond’s sons finally let go of their mother. “We’ll see you soon.”

“Just make sure they don’t take as much time as Elrond did,” added Amrod, turning to Celebrian. “We do like to make acquaintances with our cousins and so do our brothers.”

“Oh, I will.” Celebrian laughed merrily. “Or else Valar know who they are going to bring along for dinner!”

Amrod mounted back his own horse and with final farewell they rode back, intending to stop in an inn for the night. They were already behind the curve of the road when they heard one of Elrond’s sons speaking to the other. “We won’t be bored in here.”

I’d love to hear what you think of it. Please let me know, good or bad :)

I can be found in here: https://archiveofourown.org/works/16603994

[senalishia]

More NoME liveblog!

Part Two Ch. XI: I'm way too much of a materialist to be entirely comfortable with this explanation of Fate; I can only conceive of it as "the places in history unobserved enough for no one to notice Eru putting his thumb on the scale". Not all writers let their characters run amok so much.

Ch. XII: The fact that the Valar are able to make mistakes of this magnitude is precisely why they must be so careful not to override or put undue pressure on the will of the Children. They don't always have all the right answers!

Ch. XIII: So the Elves did not equate the spirit itself with breath, but did occasionally use the metaphor of a breath or wind for the direct action of a spirit on its environment, apart from the body.

"The two stems owing to tendency in Quenya of s/r and s/th to coalesce became much confused." Feanor: YOU DON'T SAY. SUCH A SHAME THAT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THIS COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED.

Ch. XIV: Apparently unembodied Maiar are invisible but do have a scent?

Ch. XV: Elvish reincarnation! Something that Tolkien went back and forth on a bit. I love how Eru's just like "you brought all these elves to come live with you and NOW you're wondering if you have the authority to mess with them? Why don't you show some initiative!"

It's important to remember that Miriel wasn't like, the first Elf in Mandos ever. Lots of folks died in Middle Earth.

I'm glad Tolkien agrees with me how much being a dead Elf sucks.

Honestly I could expect a little more of the Valar in taking responsibility for hindering the wills of those who do evil

OMG they're getting philosiphical about continuity of identity

Mountains are a social construct

I might say the difference is that living, self-replicating things contain much more information

Instead of family trees, elves have family rivers! That's adorable!

Ooh, I wonder if Tolkien plans to wrestle with the concept of evolution

He's still hanging on to the idea that Elves can be rehoused OR reborn

This passage IIRC postdates the discovery of DNA, I wonder if Tolkien knew about that

LOL beware of spawn camping orcs!

Man, I always forget to what extent the Veil over Pre-existence is a Mormon thing or not

The reborn can't take up their former life, though they remember it? You can't pick rebirth if you're married! This is getting into some WILD implications!

You CAN chill in Mandos with your loved ones but, like, you shouldn't

WHY is Tolkien so hung up on the new body being "counterfeit"? Clearly the identity resides in the fëa, and besides, our bodies remake themselves all the time. Ship of Theseus and all that.

Yes it did always seem weird that as much emphasis as the story of the Silmarillion places on lineage that would all get thrown out intorducing these, like, cuckoo elves.

So he let go of it, at the last

No one wants to have a kid with a recycled soul

He's finally come down on the side that being reborn with adult memories would be psychologically untenable, even with some temporary amnesia

The bodies of dead Dwarf kings just...get up again sometimes????

WHEW that was a long chapter, that's probably enough to post for now.

[eruscreaminginthedistance]

On the topic of Tolkien and Sexism

Because the discussion has given me too many ideas rattling around in my brain and I don’t think I can express them all just in replies and usurp other people’s posts.  I think there is merit in both @sindar-princeling and @maire-annatari arguments; both put forward some very valid points concerning Tolkien and his attitudes towards women.  

I think that it is inevitable that a man who was Catholic from birth, who would have had a very strict, Christian upbringing - particularly in turn of the century Britain - would have been influenced greatly by the anti-feminist attitudes of the time.  However, it is not environment alone that makes a man, and this quote from Moseley in Joseph Pearce’s biography of Tolkien tells a lot:

‘Of course, nobody is unaffected by what he reads.  If you spend your days reading books and poems from a world where women are honoured, put on a pedestal - worshipped, even - where the chief male virtues are courage, and honesty, and honour, and generosity you will in the end come to think in those terms.’

Moseley here is discussing Tolkien’s attitude to Edith, but it made me think that this attitude extended farther than his private life and into his texts.  I think that Tolkien’s brand of sexism was the ‘purity narrative’.  Anyone familiar with the Harry Potter books could probably point out how the film adaptation phased out Hermione’s flaws from the text, the moments where she fumbles, whilst co-opting Ron’s best qualities and moments of usefulness into her character.  This is what I’m talking about when I refer to the ‘purity narrative’, and what I think @miirkwoods was alluding to in their discussion with @sindar-princeling (A great read, by the way guys.  And well done on keeping it civil :) )

I have no doubt that Tolkien read the Middle English hagiographies of virgin saints, or, being raised Catholic, was brought up to revere the Virgin Mary.  Typically, these women saints, particularly in the High Middle Ages in which they saw a boom in popularity, were portrayed as the perfect, idealised woman.  Their femininity ensures that they are not susceptible to sin or or mistake like their male counterparts.  I believe that this interpretation of woman as the pure, perfect being is what influenced Tolkien to write them in such a way.  

As @miirkwoods said, the women fit into the idealised role that Tolkien believes they should play.  I wrote a small article for my University work last year on Tolkien and his female characters, focusing on their roles as protectors.  The women we see in Tolkien’s narratives are, indeed, very powerful and inspiring in their own right, but at the expense of their humanity.  They are not free to make mistakes or suffer at their own hands the way the male characters are.  They do not fight like men, or as often for, as women, they are ‘above’ that.  The lands ruled by women - Melian, Galadriel, Morwen and Haleth - are free of war thanks to their protection and their people thrive.  Luthien rides to save Beren from death, and keep him from harm from Morgoth.  Eowyn sheds her warriors garb and becomes a healer, and Arwen does her best to indirectly support Aragorn even when she is not near.  And like I noted in my article, these roles that the women fill are definitely not a bad thing.  Without the care and protection of these women many of the male characters would fall on their faces and die (think of Galadriel’s light in Shelob’s tunnel).  Women, in Tolkien’s texts, are the ultimate supporters and you want them on your side.

However, the purity narrative that Tolkien employs is problematic.  Because these women are ‘too’ perfect.  They don’t make mistakes, they don’t, for the most part, display the same moral grey-ness that the male characters do.  I think that the closest we come to that would be Galadriel, and her role as Feanor’s foil.  Her pride, and ambition in desiring a kingdom to rule for herself.

In essence, I think that Tolkien admired and idealised women in his own way.  Perhaps too much.  His indirectly powerful female characters don’t have the same depth and complexity that make their male counterparts so fun to analyse.  I think that yes, Tolkien had some sexist views - an inevitability considering his environment - but the sexism that transfers over to his texts shows a distinct idea of what the role of women should be, and that it is at the expense of any faults she might have.  This is getting way too long so I’m gonna cut this short, but I’ll have to return to this topic when I have some time, hopefully with some more research under my belt.  Everyone here’s given me a lot to think about.

[th3rindion]

(Kneedeep in a PDF of Lays of Beleriand long past when I should be asleep and shamelessly spitballing about things I only kinda remember. From asking the initial question to sticking this thing on my blog this post happened in about three hours.)

So in earlier versions of the tale of Beren & Lúthien Celegorm actually takes up Finrod’s role. He gives his friendship, oath, and ring to Barahir, he welcomes Beren into Nargothrond, and in one version he even gives him a magic knife. There is no mention of Feanor or his Oath.

A common assumption we fans like to make is that every document Tolkien produced in relation to the Legendarium has a Watsonian counterpart somewhere. So here’s the question: how does Celegorm end up conflated with the King of Nargothrond?

Well, it’s definitely not because of the Noldor. And if the Silvan Elves care at all about Beleriand’s histories they’ll have learned most of it from Sindar, and Thranduil and (probably) Celeborn are both from Doriath; it might be possible to forget which side which blonde was on if you only know the one tale, but I’m not sure it’s actually possible that the Silmaril came up at any point in time, especially in connection to Celegorm, without a reference to the Second Kinslaying.

So this is a Mannish misconception. Which Men, though? The Kings of Gondor and Arnor are direct descendants of Beren and Luthien, and Elrond, their great-grandson, does his best to keep in touch with them – he’s literally raised a lot of the Dunedain. It’s possible (though I wouldn’t bet on it) that the average person on the street in Minas Tirith could only tell you a few vague details about the Lay of Leithian, but anyone with even a passing interest in the First Age has a wealth of pretty accurate information at their fingertips. In Rohan Elves are a thing of legend, but like the Silvan, to the extent the Rohirrim care at all they’re not likely to know about Luthien but not the Sons of Feanor. It’s hard to imagine any people familiar with Middle-earth’s history and lore, really, who might conflate Celegorm and Finrod to the point that history preserves it like that.

The peoples of Middle-earth aren’t the only ones in the Fourth Age who might care about the mythos surrounding the line of Luthien, though. By the time of his death, Aragorn controls a large part of Western Rhun, as well as other places that had never encountered Elves before one suddenly became their queen. Who are these strange conquerors, tall and pale, far older now than any man has ever lived but still mistakable for newlyweds in their twenties? What great line do they spring from? Are they human, as their subjects are, or, as with their now-dead god-emperor, has something stranger come East from over the mountains?

This is the story they tell beyond the Misty Mountains, in the Eastern Territories of the Reunited Kingdom, where Queen Arwen is the only daughter of an amoral trickster spirit: the tale of her human father, Beren the One-handed, who stole a jewel from the Underworld with his magic knife, who came back from the dead to achieve life eternal, and who had the loyalty of a legendary king – the Lord of Narog, a mighty enchanter, of all Western creatures the most fey and the most fair.

[condensed-theorem-shop]

Hi, you seem to have lots of opinions on fics (esp. Glowfics) and I'm reading radiance right now. So I was wondering if you have any good fanfic recommendations for when I finish c:

Ooooh okay I can do this :D I’m not sure if you want recs for glowfic or fanfic or both or what, so I’m gonna err on the side of Everything.

Cut for Much Length.

Part 1: Glowfic Collections

If you’d like another big reading project to start on, boy do I have recommendations for you.

Effulgence. I’d describe Effulgence as the paradigmatic glowfic. (Don’t be daunted to the fact that the link is to a ‘how to read’; it is not in fact tricky to read. There’s a series of links on an index page, and you can just read through each in order.) The basic conceit is that Alicorn writes AU versions of Bella-from-Luminosity into tons of different fanfic universes, and then all of them meet up and take over the universe and also cuddle a lot. The exciting other half is Kappa(/Pyth/@shitifindon), Alicorn’s cowriter for Effulgence; Kappa writes various AU versions of the Joker (yes, from Batman) who are fantastic adorable masochists and fall madly in love with the AU-Bellas (“Bells”). The shipping is so adorable. I cannot recommend it enough.

Silmaril. Probably the biggest glowfic continuity (“story spanning a bunch of worlds that meet up”) aside from Effulgence, and (unlike Effulgence) currently updating, so it’s talked about a lot in the community right now. Hence, a good choice if you want to hop right into the discussions. (Please do!!) The writers for this one are Alicorn and Lintamande, the latter of whom writes a fantastic Lord-of-the-Rings setting with a cast of Elves from the Silmarillion who are traumatized and fantastic and huggable.

Particularly Good Threads. Okay, this one is cheating, but it’s worth linking. People on the forum are trying to compile a list of recommended glowfics. Some of them are not necessarily maximally recommended to someone new to glowfic, but people put brief explanations of what they’re reccing them for, so it should hopefully still be helpful.

Part 2: Individual Glowfics

The thing about glowfics is that they tend to spin off each other – Lintamande decides to write her elf characters in space this time, Alicorn has a version of Bella who is male and a demon visit, he ends up interestingly traumatized from that, then Kappa goes “hey can we write about what would happen if that interestingly traumatized Bell met my version of a character from the Vorkosigan Saga who was from a different universe and then met a monument and now travels in a floating canoe,” and you end up with a really fantastic story which no one can make sense of unless they have read, like, a dozen prerequisite threads.

So I can’t just recommend my favorite glowfics, because none of them would make sense; and you can’t really just start browsing through the glowfics on the Constellation unless you’re willing to put up with half of them being nonsensical. Reading through Effulgence will help a lot with that, as will getting familiar with the casts of a few of the more prolific glowficcers (Kappa writes the Joker, Miles Vorkosigan, Tony Stark, and Sherlock Holmes a lot; Pedro writes Sadde, who’s original to him; Lintamande has her various Elves). For the moment, though, here’s some glowfics that require relatively little context.

blood sweat tear: A fairy Bell meets Miles Vorkosigan. Works well without much context because Miles is figuring out what’s going on, so you can figure it out along with him.

in spite of a nail: An episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, if Bella were the Slayer and Kappa’s Sherlock were a vampire.

Lindworm: A classic fairy tale, with Bella as the heroine and a Joker as the dragon.

there’s only so much I can turn into: A good introduction to Sadde, since you’ve read Luminosity already! Getting to know Sadde will make a lot more glowfic accessible. Addy finds a Sadde.

in which a Bell is the second coming of Christ: exactly what it sounds like, and fantastic. No context needed.

Pre-Jump Earth Literature: a good introduction to Miles Vorkosigan, in his canon setting. And you get a gander at the popular Miles/Yvette ship!

Uninvited Guests are Welcome Here: another case where both sets of characters are a bit lost and explaining their worlds to each other, which makes it an excellent introduction to those worlds.

you know what they say about the young: Matilda (yes, from Roald Dahl) appears in Middle-Earth and makes friends with a very tiny Feanor. Excessive adorableness ensues.

A Table for Two: Gregor, the emperor of Barrayar from the Vorkosigan Saga, meets … Hannibal. From Hannibal. It is very satisfying.

More Than One Kind Of Artifact: another characters-explain-their-worlds-to-each-other thread. A Bell from an original world with magic artifacts meets magical-girl Edie and Emily (who are the AU offspring of Magneto and Professor X, but that’s a whole nother thing…)

Part 3: Shameless Plugging

You didn’t think I was going to let you get away without reccing you a couple of my own glowfics, did you? :D

For context: Jean is my spy/revolutionary/actor/bundle of issues/world’s worst planner. Faith is my teenage antichrist who keeps trying to fix the world by taking it over via mind control and otherwise making very bad decisions.

the prettiest song I heard: a Jean in an original universe of Kappa’s gets really, really fucked up, and then falls in love. (So many warnings. So many warnings. I am serious about the warnings. But if you like that sort of thing…)

one for sorrow (two for joy): a Jean attempts to kidnap a prince and accidentally falls in love with him in the process. Hilarity ensues.

don’t let’s ask for the moon: set in an original universe of Alicorn’s, but not much of that actually comes up. (People get magic from eclipses.) Jean rescues Adelene’s character Denice from an institution; there is adorableness.

neither fish nor fowl: Jean and Denice in Star Wars, and this time she is the one rescuing him from himself. Jean does not make a very good Jedi.

Out of the Blue: Faith and Throne’s character Theo explore vampires in an original setting. Mistakes are made. So many of them.

Incipio: Faith and Theo again, in Buffy the Vampire Slayer this time.

Part 4: Fanfic

Taking a break from the glowfic for a while! Here’s some general fanfic recommendations.

At the End of All Things: If you’d like to meet Lintamande’s Elves outside of a glowfic setting, she’s got an enormous (in-progress) story about Elves brought back to life in the modern day! It is fantastic and depressing!

The Stone Gryphon: a serious, historical-fiction take on the Narnia books, and the events in England that happened in between them. Amazing historical tie-ins, and strikes a nice balance in its attitude towards the more spiritual aspects of the Narnia books which I think a lot of fics have trouble with.

The Foodieverse: an astonishingly well-written Avengers AU … in which all the characters are involved in the restaurant industry. Captain America has a food truck. It’s amazing.

Five Places Cinna Came From: a series of Hunger Games AUs, exploring different possible backstories for Cinna and doing a ton of worldbuilding along the way.

Move Fast and Break Things: @ozymandias271’s now-complete Avengers AU, with female!disabled!Tony Stark, adorable!Bucky, and general amazingness.

Steve Rogers at 100: Celebrating Captain America on Film: a story wrapped around accounts of Captain America movies, good and bad, that might have existed in-universe. I am so delighted by this kind of worldbuilding.

Part 5: Original Fiction

You didn’t ask, but I am sharing some online favorites anyway!

Worm: If you have not read it yet, you should! A gritty-superheroes narrative, distinguished from the million others in the genre by the really awesome thought that’s put into powers. Everyone thinks of inventive ways to use their powers and does it. Warning: super long. And depressing. Read it anyway! There are glowfics set there!

Goldmage: An original novel of Alicorn’s! Delightful worldbuilding, sweet and exciting and depressing, read it read it read it.

Elcenia: An immense work of original fiction by Alicorn. Very glowficcy in some ways (and lots of glowfics are set there, so that’s another reason to read it). In the first book, a woman is accidentally magically transported between worlds, and explored Alicorn’s super-thoroughly-worldbuilt original setting while figuring out exciting ways to leverage the contact. Each subsequent book takes some minor character or characters from previous books and tells their story. This has the delightful effect that you can then reread it, and when Random Dude #12 is being grumpy and unreasonable you know it’s because he’s just had his best friend kidnapped and is having to pretend nothing happened as part of an elaborate plot involving telepathic vampires (no, not a real example).

Cordyceps: Another one popular in the same general circles as Luminosity is. Mystery/horror/post-apocalyptic, and marvelous. And depressing and needs a lot of warnings -- you may be sensing a theme here.

Part 6: Other People

Other glowficcers on tumblr who might have recs for you, off the top of my head: @luminousalicorn @kelsbraintumbler @scientiststhesis @curiosity-discoverer-of-worlds @shitifindon @lintamande @aestrix @trickytalks @throne3d @marrinikari @ansiblelesbian @inquisitivefeminist @mischiefmanaged777twoofus @erinflight and I’m sure I’m still forgetting people. They are all way more approachable than you think! At least if you are like me and decide people are scary and unapproachable for no particular reason!

All y’all I tagged -- any other rec ideas? :D