#retroboot legion

[judedeluca]

Geoff Johns saying "Fuck it" and using the Retroboot Legion in Justice Society after he was forced to use Bendis's Legion in Doomsday Clock is a level of gall and pettiness I feel obligated to support

[sebeth]

Can You Disconnect It From That Sick Girl?

[actuallyadcfan]

I've been rereading the dna legion run recently and it made me be even more upset at bendisboot. Like I hate bringing negativity this way, but it's so bad, you do different "darker" takes on the legion like dna like 5yl and you don't loose its spirit, but when you give every character the same stupid personality and have them all be jon kent supports....it just makes me fucking pissed

[thevindicativevordan]

So... Mark Waid writing the New History of the DC Universe. How much sense does it make to establish one over 5 years after the last significant continuity shift (the "everything is canon" post-Death Metal)? Is Waid the right person for the job among the current DC creators? What would such a project even need to be to actually be useful (not "good", *useful*) for readers and creative teams rather than confusing things even further? And finally, what might it mean for Superman?

For the kind of fanboy who cares more about how a story fits into the "sacred continuity" and whether a story "counts" than whether it's actually "good", this makes all the sense in the world.

Waid's the only person for the job, I can't imagine anyone who is not a terminal fanboy doing better. Doesn't mean he'll do a good job mind you.

I guess giving firm answers regarding who formed what teams, what runs are more or less canon, and what the origins are for the major characters would be the useful result of a project like this.

For Superman, based on what we know of Waid, what has been solicited, and what Kaminski shared on a recent Digging for Kryptonite podcast:

His origin is back to being Secret Origin again with the caveats that Clark and Lex were friends, Clark had Krypto, and he *might* have had a public career as Superboy rather than masquerading as a folk legend, depending how Waid handles it over in Action

Legion of Superheroes will revert back to the Retroboot

Clark and Lana might have been a couple as kids

I don't know how they'll fit in Jon, his existence completely retcons a large amount of Post Crisis Superman stories to accommodate both for his being there when he wasn't, and that Post Crisis Superman had a lot of angst about not being able to have kids with Lois

That said, Superman's career will contain most of his actual publication history just glazing over the specific details so there will be something for both Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis fans

New 52 JL remains the most popular "modern" run so I expect they'll keep that in canon but establish that it wasn't the first meeting of the team

Waid will likely establish his depiction of the first Superman/Batman meeting as canon even though it's frankly the worst of the lot, I'd even take Byrne's over his

New 52 Superman is gone entirely (least we have Absolute Superman carrying that torch)

I'd like to keep Rucka's depiction of the the first Trinity meeting as canon, but I doubt that happens

[dabruzzy]

More Legion redesigns feat. the Espionage Squad

Thought process for my redesigns under the read more:

So for Lyle I didn't want to change too much because I like his Reboot costume the best, though I think it's a bit bland. A bland design works well for him but he's my fave so I wanted him to have a better costume lol. I decided to go all in on the spy look, it's not like it's a secret anyway so he might as well look the part even more than he already does.

Tinya I wanted to make her look like a ghost, so it's basically a mix between her cartoon design and her Young Justice design. I like how in YJ she's wearing a hoodie, it feels like what a teenage superhero would wear, so I incorporated it into the cape.

Vi is mostly a mix between Retroboot and the cartoon, but I gave her shorts and combat boots as a bit of a callback to 5YL Vi because I love her. Also I wanted her to be visibly shorter than everyone else but I probably overdid it. She's really tiny.

Now you might be wondering, what the hell is going on with Cham's costume? Yeah, me too. He's the one I had the hardest time designing. I don't particularly like most of his costumes, I think a lot of them are pretty generic so I wanted to try something different but I don't think I accomplished what I wanted to do. I thought a really asymmetrical costume would fit a shapeshifter pretty well, and I also wanted to give it a water-like look to it since water doesn't have a shape. Something like Inque from Batman Beyond. But I didn't know how to do make it look good and also make him look like he belonged to the same team as everyone else so it's a bit meh.

And for Luornu I mainly took from the cartoon, now with more triangles. I also decided to stick to the Reboot's color scheme of purple and orange because her powers are more effective if she can trick people into thinking she hasn't split, and that's not doable if each duplicate is a different color. Plus Luornu Neutral is the balance between Orange and Purple and I like the idea of visually representing that by making her both orange and purple.

[spandexinspace]

It's interesting that Johns describes the pzh Legion as being a sort of unnoticed middle child. It may very well have been true at the time, what with the Threeboot being ongoing and nostalgia for the pre-boot probably being a lot stronger than it was during and after the retroboot, but at this point I'd say it has quite clearly established itself as number two on that list.

[somewherefornow]

Can you name your top 6 LoSH ships? (maybe why you choose them too? – I'd love to know)

Hi!! This is so hard bc LoSH has a lot of great ships! I’ll preface this by saying I’ve really only read the Preboot, Threeboot, and Retroboot so, yeah, probably missing a lot of good ones. But, in no particular order:

6. Block x Mysa

They have a lot of really good tropes going for them, the quiet girl with untapped power and the gentle giant. I like how they're both more introverted people who have this history of feeling sort of isolated from the rest of the Legion. It really allows them to create the sense that they're two people who can find a home in each other. There's interesting constrasts with them too, in that Blok is this super powerful person who would never want to hurt anyone, and Mysa is exactly the same, but while Blok's power you could see by looking at him, Mysa's is hidden. They have a really sweet arc in the Retroboot where Blok sticks by Mysa even after the dark energy she's absorbed has sort of stuck her in this constant battle for herself. Blok swears to be there for her, always, to remind her of who she is, and that's very sweet.

5. Gim x Cham

Like a lot of great ships, they've got a solid foundation of friendship. The later '84 series really had them teaming up a lot and working to try and protect each other. They've got some good chemistry too, with Gim more the jock and Cham more the theater kid. Gim is sort of straightforward while Cham can be unreadable, the contrast of the two makes their dynamic really interesting to me. I think there's also a crazy angst you could imagine in Cham not pursuing Gim out of a fear of rejection (because of the prejudices against Durlans) only for Gim to marry a Durlan (that isn't Cham). It's pretty wild! It's also interesting because Yera has such a dislike for Cham, it's easy to read it a different way. I also think Cham just should have gotten more to do in general. He's a top 10 legionnaire for me, for sure!

4. Brainy x Nura

I genuinely love their dynamic. Obviously, I'm very into Brainy x Kara and Nura x Thom, but I think the way these two characters both contrast and complement each other is really fascinating. I wrote some meta on it in the tags of a post about them that I'll leave here kind of speaking to what I find interesting about these two characters in relation to each other but yeah,

I actually got in a fight about this once where I said I thought Nura and Brainy felt like two of Levitz favorite characters (keeping in mind, as far as I've seen, he usually contends that his favorite was whoever he was writing in the moment). They just both feel like they're written with so much affection and their interactions always come across with so much charm and care, I think I just really started to look forward to seeing them on-page together and that really led to appreciating their dynamic more as a whole.

3. Garth x Imra x Rokk

"Funny I never realized how lonely my life had been until I met those two."

Rokk is sooooo in love with these two oh my god. I genuinely just think this ship is the sweetest thing. These three came together with a dream to make the world a better place and they stuck together through it. The way these always seem to struggle so much when they're apart, you just know these three are meant to live their lives together. The Garth/Imra, Garth/Rokk, and Rokk/Imra are all equally compelling so it just makes Garth/Imra/Rokk feel intuitive. I love Rokk's relationship with Lydda and I think that's also pretty fun (to have the one of the main Legion Leaders with one of the Subs) but I always look forward to seeing the founders come back together. Garth and Imra face a lot of difficulties in the Preboot Era and things generally just feel so much more right and calm when Rokk is there with them. I really love all of Legionnaires 3 for showcasing their relationship. It's also sweet to see Rokk's pining in the Retroboot.

2. Brek x Dirk

It just makes sense, I really don't know what else to say. Fire Guy x Ice Guy. It's gonna get me every time. Dirk as the more cynical one, Brek as enthusiastic as ever! They're sweet. I feel like they're really only together in the Retroboot (I am thinking about Adventure Comics 09 and Legion of 3 Worlds specifically). I really can't say much else except that I think their relationship's just really cute and they seem like they each give the other person some much needed balance.

1. Thom x Nura

I'm just obsessed with them, tbh. They have such a complicated relationship, it never fails to draw me in. The way Thom is secure enough in their relationship to let Nura flirt. The way Nura flirts but Thom is the one she always knows she's coming back to. Nura's strong independence at odds with her desire to communicate that she wants Thom with her, Thom's insecurity of not being enough for Nura at war with his need to love her despite that. I genuinely think I was gone on them the second Thom called her "my dream girl." That just got me, so good.

Thanks for the ask! I could talk Legion ships allllll day. :)

[balu8]

The Justice Society of America #6: The Lightning Saga, Part 4- Three Worlds

by Geoff Johns; Dale Eaglesham; Ruy Jose; Jeromy Cox and Rob Leigh

DC

Source Dave Rash (comicartfans)

Legion The Justice Society of America v3 #6 p 16 and 17 of 23, in Dave Rash's 10. Legion of Super-Heroes - Retroboot (2007-2010) Comic Art Gallery Room (comicartfans.com)

[orange-s-mario]

Supermen:

this is going to be a long one

1. Kal-L/Clark Kent/Superman

this guy is the actual golden age superman. This universe was basically were they put him since Earth-Two and Golden Age Superman stories; had some inconsistencies. 2. Kal-El/Sonn/Clark Kent. First he was Superboy, then he was Superman

I love this guy. He's great. He feels alienated all the time and is also almost always going through it. He is NOT well at all. He also has a large dating life - mostly with women with L. L. initials; most notably Lois, Lana, and Lori. He also remembers Krypton due to supermemory. He is friends with the Legion of Superheroes (Original)

NON-CLARK DETOUR #1 3. Ar-Val, the tyrant Superman

Kal handpicked a Kandorian successor after some tests, due to Clark losing his powers. It didn't quite go well and ended in tragedy for Ar-Val 4. Not a Superman but a "Skyman," Klar-Don, a predecessor to Superman

He's basically just Superman on Krypton; Although it seems like he just has Flight due to his Flight Belt (the other Superman past lives only had one power; Erok the magnificent had a potion that made him have super-strength, and Skuldor had V-goggles which let him use X-ray vision). He works for the Daily World, he has a friend named Jol-Lar, there's a Lois, and a Perry. I like to think he's the ancestor of Vol-Don (a member of the Kryptonian lookalike Squad

-End detour

5. Kal-L/Superman

This is Earth-Two Kal-L. He's basically golden age Superman with a few differences to make him standout from Earth-One Superman. He also married Lois, and met Lana again after he married Lois. There's also only 4 other survivors of Krypton. He's also great. also I want to give a shoutout to his "Mr. and Mrs. Superman" S logo.

I just think it's neat

6. Clark Joseph Kent/Kal-El

...he was literally born on this planet. At least at first. THIS GUY has THREE ORIGINS. First Man of Steel, then Birthright, then Secret Origins. Secret Origins adds Superboy back to his mythos. He has met all versions of the Legion, but was specifically part of "Original" Legion (Retroboot)

NON-CLARK DETOUR #2

7. Steel 1 (the only Reign of Supermen character to NOT claim he was Superman)

He's cool. Also when Christopher Priest was writing him, he was basing him off Dwayne Mcduffie, I just wanted to let you know that. He's had multiple origins as well, but I think the gist is that the new 52 beginning stuff happens first and then Death of Superman.

8. Eradicator... 2(?)

HE WAS AN EGG. his lore gets pretty complicated, especially due to all the weird absorbing other people's consciousness parts; He was actually made by a different alien, but Kem-L made him a xenophobe. Or something like that. I think all Post-Crisis Eradicator appearances are the same guy? Apparently not; New Krypton Eradicator is a different one, but he DOES have the og's memories. So it's a David Conner situation. He can sense things from not the main universe being in the main universe. He changed and grew as a person because of Guy Gardner 8.5 Eradicator...3 ?

(apparently not the same guy; this guy must have even more identity issues then post-david connor eradicator)

9. Superboy (Kon-El, later Conner Kent)*

He also has two origins. His original origin links him to many Jack Kirby concepts and makes him one - a DNAlien, a metahuman made by genetically modifying human DNA. He was the clone of Paul Westfield (westfield is evil btw). Johns retcons this into a half-Luthor half-Superman clone (superman is good btw), who always is worried about turning EVIL due to EVILLL GENES. Anyways Young Justice (2019) revealed he was on gemworld during flashpoint so he survived. He's also met the legion (reboot) *He has referred to himself as Superman

10. Cyborg Superman (Hank Henshaw)

he has Reed Richard's origins, except his crew doesn't really survive. He became a mass of energy and basically can't die. Much more of a GL villain, but has become a Superman villain again recently

-End detour

11. Kal-El/Clark Joseph Kent

This Superman starts out as a Champion of the Oppressed like his golden age counterpart, then quickly gets into bigger and bigger ideas like a 5th dimensional being trying to sell out Superman. He also met a version of the legion that doesn't exist anymore due to saving him. He died and also maybe he got better (see Sideways) and also he fused with the post-crisis guy, leading to:

12. Superman Reborn (Kal-El/Clark Joseph Kent)

yeah sure this makes sense. (it does not, Superman has a bunch of contradictions with just post-crisis and post-flashpoint) 12.5 Infinite Frontier Superman (Kal-El/Clark Joseph Kent... maybe also Sonn?)

everything is canon now. How does that work with the various versions of Superman? It doesn't. This is where we are now. There really hasn't been much changes to Superman lore though. The biggest thing was probably Lex being a superhero in early metropolis. The one thing I'm pretty sure of is that this Clark has met all the legions

NON-CLARK DETOUR #3 13. Alexander "Lex" Luthor

After Prime Earth Superman died, many people took to the skies to carry on his legacy. One of such people is Lex Luthor

14. Kong Kenan, the New Super-Man

Kenan is imbued with the chi of Prime Earth Superman and gains superpowers, He develops and changes and grows as a person and learns how to use his powers as well as learns more about his family. Highly recommend New Super-Man

15. Denny Swan

He was hit by a sentient bolt of energy that carried a mutated genome of Prime Earth Superman so he thinks he's Superman, He blew up.

16. Emperor Super-Man/Super-Man Zero

A prototype Super-Man, also made by infusing him with the chi of prime earth superman; he was lab-grown

[fandomriderx-1]

Aaahhhh, so this is the kinda of stuff that led to the Preboot/Retroboot split. When Geoff Johns brought the OG Legion back in 2006, I’ve heard he cut out all the stuff from Five Years Later, though I’ve never known enough details to know if that’s true or not.

"That Really Happened?!" DC Comics Tournament Entry #20

So I Married a Protean and No One Told Me

[ID: A series of comic panels showing Garth and Ayla talking in the woods. Garth is walking with a group of proteans that look like small white bipedal blobs. One of them says, "Garth you are not. A protean you are. Human body. Without protean powers, yes... But with Proty-1 mind. Ever since resurrection..." From behind a bush Ayla exclaims, "What?!"

Garth says, "No! I've been living as Garth for twenty years! And I finally realize the... life I've built... my family... is the only thing that really matters. I can't risk losing them. Not even for Kid Quantum." The proteans ask, "Are sure? Won't come with us?" To which he responds, "I can't I'm sorry." /END ID]

What Happened?

In the Golden and Silver Age, the death of a hero was a big deal. The cycle of cynical events based around the death or return of a beloved character hadn't started yet. So it was rare and shocking when Garth "Lightning Lad" Ranzz, one of the founders of the 30th century Legion of Super-Heroes perished in battle with Zaryan the Conqueror. He stayed dead for about a year (in publishing time) until he was returned to life by the sacrifice of Chameleon Boy's pet, a shapechanging blob named Proty, by transfering its life energy to Lightning Lad's corpse by means of a lightning rod (it's 30th century science, you wouldn't get it). Chameleon Boy would later adopt another Protean pet (named Proty-II, natch) and Garth would return to active service, lose and regain an arm, and marry his sweetheart, Imra "Saturn Girl" Ardeen.

Following the very successful Paul Levitz/Keith Giffen run on the title, the DC launched volume 4 of The Legion of Super-Heroes in 1989, which would become known as the "Five Years Later" run, due to the in-universe time skip between volumes. This run was co-written by Giffen and husband and wife superfans Tom and Mary Bierbaum, who slowly started incorporating fan theories into the run. The series already had to deal with having to fix Legion continuity following Crisis on Infinite Earths, and while some of these retcons were successful (Mon-El replacing Superboy), many were controversial (Shvaughn Erin, who I will also be submitting).

Late in the run, it is revealed that the lightning rod ceremony did revive the body, but not the mind of Lightning Lad. Instead, it transferred Proty's mind into Garth's body, meaning every Lightning Lad story since 1963 had actually been a Proty story! This information is revealed to Garth's sister Ayla (Light/Lightning Lass) but, unless I am forgetting anything, not to his wife Saturn Girl! This, along with other controversial plot developments (like the destruction both the moon and the Earth) would eventually lead to DC rebooting the Legion during the Zero Hour crossover event in the mid-90s.

--

Tournament polls will be posted after all entries are up. As always you can find all posts related to the tournament using #dc-polls-trh

[judedeluca]

Jude's 34th Birthday Wishlist - The BBW edition

For my birthday on December 25th, for those who feel like doing fat and weight gain related stuff, or just pieces involving large guys/big beautiful men

Again I made the list shorter like the regular one because I haven't had the time to really focus on this. It's the end of the year and I am really tired.

Weight gain, big beautiful men. Men who're fat or men who get fat. Big bellies, buttons popping, clothes tearing, body adoration, body positivity. You guys know what I like and what I don't like (body hair, force feeding, immobility, things like that).

I don't think it needs to be said I enjoy seeing Arsenal together with Lightning Lad.

Arsenal - THE dad of DC Comics, if only DC would stop fucking him over. Preferably the late 90s/Rick Mays version, or the early 2000s Outsiders (Commission by Rick Mays)

Banshee - One of the other dads of the X-Men, co-leader of Generation X with Emma Frost (Commission by Phil Sevy)

Cornfed - From Adam Warren's Livewires and one of the few canon stocky characters Marvel has

Grunge - My problematic fave from Gen13, Percival Edmund Chang takes on the properties of anything he touches. A shameless hound dog constantly thinking of boobs and sex (Commission by Carlo Barberi)

Hunk - From Voltron Force specifically, who for his Coopness (Art by Prisonsuit Rabbitman)

Lightning Lad - The Retroboot Garth who is one of DC's underappreciated redheaded dads and should've set the mold before Arsenal (Commission by Duckydrawsart)

Lightning Lad - The cartoon Garth and my first favorite version of the character (Commission by Derrick J Wyatt RIP)

Mike - The titular Mahoney of Rich Carrington and Brian Dawson's Mahoney's, retired supervillain and owner of a bar for supervillains. Brian has done a couple of commissions of Mike as heavyset for me which I super appreciate, and Rich has even included some of them in the print issues of Mahoney's (Commission by Jo Estep and Brian Dawson)

Red Arrow - Will Harper from Young Justice, formerly Roy, who turned into a DILF between seasons two and three (Commission by Daniela Klem)

Skullfire - Of the future X-Men 2099, he's like their answer to Lightning Lad. Has electric powers, red hair, acted differently following a near death experience, in a relationship with a psychic named La Lunatica. He's like the edgy 90s Lightning Lad no one asked for (Commission by Anonymous)

Timber Wolf - From the Legion cartoon, objectively the best version. Enjoys baking (Commission by Caucusboi)

Ultra Boy - From the Reboot Legion, and arguably the best version of Jo Nah (Commission by Jeff Moy)

Yuta - The protagonist of Rumiko Takahashi's horror series Mermaid Saga and her favorite of her male protagonists (and mine) (Commission by Cris Art)

Original Character - Max Hestian

A character I created for a concept called Sumoboarding, a fictional video game franchise involving snowboarding, surfing, and skateboarding with big beautiful men. Max is a Utah firefighter, asexual, and a foster father of two. Design commission from Mozg and commission art by Little Corvus

[sebeth]

Playtime With These Two

[thevindicativevordan]

Superboy being a public figure in the recent superman issue means that none of the Superman origins are actually the canon one which I find humours. I do enjoy the "do whatever you want approach". Since dawn of DC pretty much every orgin from pre crisis to Morrison new 52 has been pulled from in some way

With the return of the Retroboot Legion, I believe Secret Origin is now fully recanonized.

Johns gave Clark a career as Superboy. People thought reports of a "Superboy" were conspiracy theories, easy enough to say Smallville didn't start publicly honoring him as their mascot until after he made his debut as Superman and someone connected the two.

[spandexinspace]

Redditors are really out there asking where the Bendisboot went as if there's anyone at DC who actually liked them over the p/retroboot or reboot. You could tell no one else liked them, especially not the people who care enough about the Legion to write them into current comics.

[somewherefornow]

have you read all Legion of Super Heroes? What's your favorite era?

Sadly, no, I haven’t read all of LoSH (tho that’s good in that there’s more for me to read/look forward to!).

I’ve really only read the Preboot and Retroboot extensively. The Preboot I’ve read LoSH ‘80 & ‘84 plus Tales, plus odd appearances in Adventure Comics and Action Comics, Legionnaires 3, Cosmic Boy, and a few random issues of Karate Kid. And the Sub Special!

For the Retroboot, I’ve read everything except Legion Lost (2011), still got ten or so more issues of that to go. But I’ve read Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds, Adventure Comics (2009), LoSH (2010 & 2011), the Legion of Super-Villains Special, and their arcs in Action Comics around that time. Also just finished JSA 2022, not sure where that stands continuity wise but yeah!

I’ve read twenty or so issues of the Threeboot but none of the Reboot, 5YL, or the Bendisboot.

I feel bad about saying favorite era when I haven’t read so many that I’ve heard great things about but at least for now, I’ve really enjoyed a lot of parts of both the Preboot and Retroboot. I’d say LoSH ‘84 is probably my favorite ongoing the Legion ever had (that I’ve read) so for that reason, I might say Preboot though there really hasn’t been a Legion story I really disliked, though there have been spots in every era I’ve explored that were weaker/stronger.

Thanks for the ask! :)