#same with ivan and sua

[podoro-vines]

“desperate warmth from a cold body. who else can i give all my undying love to?”

comforting our sorrows with hollowed shells

mending together with our grieving lips

desperate love machines locked in a cell

we follow the warmth written in our scripts

and whatever the fuck theyre doing

[crustyfloor]

Day 2 of Vivinos and Qmeng's ALNST autograph session at the July Animate Shanghai event (second wave of Q&A) (also pretty long) 🫩

Op's tweet / Translated thread

Op's tweet / Translated thread

Op's tweet

Op's tweet

Op's tweet / translation

Op's tweet

(Btw, I found these next three second-hand since I don't have xhs,)

二次元 means two-dimensional, so Sua likes anime

(she should watch tbhk and I wish she could see tshd and rgu..)

Tweet

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Translation / Op's message

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Op's tweet / translation thread

Translation

Op's tweet

Translation 1 translation 2 by @/t4tivantill / og posts 1 og post 2

[gold0venice]

Oh my god I have so many thoughts, but I am running on four hours of sleep, so here we fucking go *screaming, sobbing, crying*

1. Determination vs Desperation

I know that Ivan made a very big and impactful decision in the previous round, and honestly I can see that through Till’s expressions during the video. Mizi might have been a symbol of salvation to Till, but Ivan (and his death) was his reason to go ahead, fierce and determined and powerful. However, Ivan’s death is also a testament of momentum as well as desperation. Till is determined and desperate to survive and live. But this is made also absolutely obvious by the appearance of Mizi, which I will get into soon. Anyways, also in sense of colour scheme, Till switches from green to yellow/orange. We have also noticed the pattern of red, orange and yellow with Ivan’s and Ivan vs Till rounds. It’s as much as a homage but also a haunting, “the fiery thrill blazes out to the sky”. It’s like Till’s and Ivan’s memories and their lost future haunt him, and have left him “(leave no) regrets”. Perhaps not leaving with Till? These regrets and memories are both his strength and weakness, but Ivan gave him the will and reason to fight back. In this way, Till also seems to be wearing a branded armband of his segyen (sorry if it’s misspelt 😭). In a way he is literally playing the game like Ivan did.

At the same time, these are very bright, memorable and fierce colours that stand out, which made me (sadly) believe he would survive. This is also a contrast to the blues and violets of Luka, which are more mellow, but we soon see it is a growing determined movement. It is mellow because it is unassuming, and this sneaks up on Till twice, when Luka imitates Ivan. In a way this is sadly ironic, as Ivan never thought he would be a traumatic point for Till (lmao babe said what to Sua???), but that pain was exploited anyways by Luka 😭👋🤧

2. Musician’s choice

Till playing the guitar in this video made me blush (please don’t judge me, I love him so much), but more than that I love the implications of the instruments here. Firstly, both Till and Luka play strings instruments. The violin is classical, the guitar here is electric. They are already in juxtaposition with genres (and personalities lol), but they are still strings (singers for the competition), and fit together very well. You could say that the instruments resemble and are metaphors for Luka and Till. What I most like about this scene is that it is more like a battle between music prodigies, which was very exciting, because we have never seen these two interact before.

While both Luka and Till are amazing and well recognised artists, you can see the differences that separate them. Luka is all out confident, in control and powerful vocalist. Till is the same, but there is sense of desperation and a crippling anxiety, even as he plays the guitar. It looks like a fake confidence as much as a hidden fear. Both instruments work well together but the musicians are in different positions. I also have an inkling that Luka picked the violin on purpose. It is a contrast to Till’s already seen powered playing with his guitar in his round, but we have never seen Luka playing the violin, which gives the element of surprise, and a first step to shake up Till.

3. Grief on Stage

Alien Stage is merciless. Luka himself is a result of this system as a merciless manipulator. Luka imitating Ivan is terrible, and also turns on Till’s not fully registered trauma from Ivan’s death. Ivan is haunting Till, even after his death, and it has been clear for quite a while that Till actually cares for Ivan quite a lot. About haunting, figuratively and literally, Ivan’s red pupils resembles the red glare of the camera that follows Till in all his moments, his strength and weaknesses. The same red is reflected in Till’s pupils, which is so funny (I am in tears) because it really emphasises the pressure, stress and panic, but also letting go because it’s overwhelming him. Till’s pain and grief is an open wound that he tried to patch up too fast, and now it’s bleeding out and over the bandage.

The song title and lyrics also play into this idea as “in a blink gone” is quite literate. Till blinks and Ivan is shot. Till blinks and Ivan dies. It’s the shock of his death, and adrenaline that makes his body language so interesting in this round. Here in this scene Till is hunching over in pain and grief and haunting, and Ivan (masqueraded by Luka) acts into this. A well imitated Ivan with no look of love or adoration or even obsession, an empty shell, that Till falls into, relaxing for a second into the touch, just a for a second, “don’t miss the moment” . Till falls into a cobweb that he can’t get out of (maybe he doesn’t want to)

4. Death on Stage

Now to the part that made my heart blow up. In Alien Stage there are only winners, losers and those who manage to get away. The thing about Till’s death that made our hearts stop and my legs to give out is that Till was actually close to be one of those who got away. Till sees Mizi in the audience (also noticed the detail of the red glare becoming pink?) and he immediately jumps back into focus. He was almost there, just for one second. It is tragic and unfair and depressing. Till becomes a loser in the game on stage, one among the countless victims and dead in Alien Stage. Mizi actually had a chance to be his incarnate salvation, his saviour, but time gets away from them, “the clock goes tick tock tick tock blink, gone”. Mizi was there to catch him, she was reaching out to him, ready to get him away. It’s too late, in a blink he is gone in front of her like Sua.

5. Time and Winners in Alien Stage

Now, there are clear winners in the rounds, but in the long term of it, there are no winners. You can’t win. Mizi tries to win the game by saving Till, but Alien Stage wins, because it needs a winner and a loser. His death is like an afterimage of Sua’s death. Mizi getting saved by the rebels is out of luck and element of surprise. Till not getting out was intentional and foreseen by Alien Stage. In our case it as foreshadowed by All-in,covered by Till. The green splatter of paint (or should I say blood?) was a clear indication as well as the red taped name on his neck.

Till does not get freedom until after death. Till, Ivan, and Sua manage to escape the system only in death. None of them had enough time to actually live, they have always been on borrowed time. The “leave no regrets” also heart wrenching. So yeah the title ‘Blink gone’ plays into the idea of death and morals very well. Mizi is left last standing. Mizi’s friends are dead, they are gone in a blink.

[bleeding-seraphic]

when you look at the stats side by side Ivan's situation gets a lot sadder

[absha120420]

in a kinder world

[muchanmocha]

Mizi & Luka Friendship AU

[Continued from here]

Was thinking about this au some more and realized if they were friends Luka would be the one person to call Mizi out on stuff.

Most people either don't see what's going on with Mizi or hesitate to broach the topic. But he's perceptive enough to notice and blunt enough to not be deterred by the emotional intricacies of the issue.

Usually the question is, does he even care enough to say something? And usually the answer is no.

But he has historically been shown paying attention to his friends. So even if it's only 1 out of 15 times, I think at some point he'd be sufficiently bothered enough to speak up.

Inclusion of Hyun Woo's beetle in Luka's drawing

Of course, when it happens it'll be done with the best of intentions and the worst of tact lol. Mizi understandably won't react well to him carelessly unfacing her deepest insecurities...

...and that's when I realized they'd parallel Ivan and Sua's confrontation scene

So ofc I had to do it

[ivanttakethis]

IvanSua blood licking siblings? I guess??

[suguruuur]

Recollection

[non-operator]

sobbing and crying and wailing and howling like a crusty dog about the new comic There's So Much to unpack but I can't see or think with my tears. So none of this will be coherent or completed thoughts, just straight up word vomit

I think the biggest thing is the fact that Till only begins really unpacking his trauma and grief once he is older. More specifically, when he realizes he is older than Ivan. I feel like it's such a significant detail (obviously since the comic does kind of center the last half on it) because Till is now an adult and holds more life experience to reflect on the past, which finally gives him the ability to (try to) understand Ivan whereas before he couldn't.

I feel like you can see it in the dialogue Till gives to Ivan, because it's important to remember that this isn't the real Ivan but a hallucination. Ivan isn't saying anything; Till is the one making him say it, based on what he believes Ivan would say.

I find it so interesting and heartbreaking that in the moment Till begins to understand Ivan's perspective, Ivan's face can't be seen.

These two panels aren't juxtaposed, but they are still in the same pose. And it's Ivan "saying" the lines "can't you say it first? I wish you'd say it first" that triggers Till to reflect on how old Ivan was when he died. And that's what leads to the second panel. Exact same pose, and Ivan's face can't be seen. I think it's this moment that Till realizes that Ivan wanted comfort, and thus that Ivan had been scared.

However, Till can never know for sure because Ivan is dead; he can never confirm or follow-up on this, as reflected by the shadowed face.

Even when Till starts verbalizing his realization that he's outgrown dead Ivan, we still can't see his face:

And Ivan is still in his Round 6 outfit/the form he died in. I feel like this reflects how much Till regrets not understanding Ivan during this time. Not just during Round 6, but when they were this age, when they began the competition-- the time they all really needed support from one another.

I don't think it's a coincidence that even as we see child Ivan's face in the memory, we never really get to see hallucination Ivan's face as this is happening.

AND THEN THE FUCKING HUG WITH BABY IVAN??!??!

Something about how adult perspective on childhood and something about how even though it happened too late, just having an understanding of what Ivan was going through/empathizing with his fear is enough to bring Till some peace because now Ivan isn't a figure to fear but rather someone Till knows cared about him. Like as he's going to hug Ivan, it looks like they'll kiss right??? But the positions are reversed because Till is the one on the left and initiating while Ivan is on the right and looking shocked but Till doesn't kiss Ivan. Ignoring shipping, the hug shows that Till isn't pushing Ivan away anymore, that he's not rejecting him anymore out of not knowing what Ivan's deal was. And the fact that Ivan becomes a child when Till says "I never knew you were so scared" reflects how he's retroactively re-contextualizing their past and understanding why Ivan chose to sacrifice himself and the love that existed, that they were family and I'm crying and going insane and I can't write anything comprehensible anymore

You know how sometimes the healing process is like, you as the adult forgiving your child self or providing for your child self. I feel like it's like that but towards the guilt of dead childhood friends/family. But also something about how you can never fully understand the people close to you, especially loved ones you've lost, but you can always trust that the love was there. Even if you don't understand it completely or if it wasn't compatible with you, past or present, it was there and sometimes that's enough

[aintaresz]

✎ : 𝐀𝐋𝐈𝐄𝐍 𝐒𝐓𝐀𝐆𝐄 𝐢𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐬

[animationismycomfort]

I feel extremely uncomfortable if people ship the kids in alien stage

idk why but to me they all feel like siblings especially since all of them share one parent each

[questerine]

i’m listening to this beautiful edit of mizisua + ivantill cure together and it made me realize how gently sua and mizi are singing in comparison to ivantill. they never had to shout to make their love known, because it was always requited. ivan and till have to shout at eachother in the final chorus because their feelings for eachother will always be unrequited.

[the-diary-of-a-moody-teenager]

"I know my love was different from yours - but it was love, too."

[omg-paperwork]

Help me pick a name for this AU (ft. new yet unfinished art!)

an ALIEN STAGE AU of IDOLY PRIDE, where an IDOLY character assumes the role of each ALNST character!

featuring roles such as:

Kotono as Mizi

Nagisa as Sua

Sakura as Till

Shizuku as Ivan

Saki as Hyuna

Chisa as Hyunwoo

Haruko as Luka

and Mana as Girl from Top 3 MV!

Note: some of these don't make total sense in terms of the ALNST characters, but some things will be shifted around to make it fit with the IDOLY characters

so, the name- help me out by voting on it!

(name explanations under the cut)

IDOLY STAGE- simple, straightforward. a combination of the names of both series.

HOSHIMI STAGE- similar to the first, uses the name of Hoshimi Productions (the agency that the girls work under).

ALIPRI- can you tell i like fusion names

AIPURALNST- can you tell by now?

Starfall Idol- a reference to both IDOLY PRIDE's Hoshimi Productions as well as ALIEN STAGE's extraterrestrial setting

[dreadark]

bugs me a bit when people assume Ivan is some kind of genius or somehow naturally talented

he's really not at all. he just works ridiculously hard I mean we've seen his schedule what is this

literally anyone who put in this amount of work would end up getting good grades... if they didn't have a complete breakdown first guess you can consider that his "talent" can't break if you're already broken

Sua does actually seem like a natural genius though, she's tied with Ivan despite not doing... all that well she basically says as much

and she worked as a model (among other things) while attending Anakt Garden, so she managed being top of the class while also already having her career Ivan didn't do any of that, he only got popular after round 3 (idk what these rankings are out of, but if he's only 78th when Till was 5th...) despite being a top student I suppose Ivan didn't actually stand out much at first?

interesting how out of all of them, Ivan seems the least suited to singing on stage Sua's clearly talented, Till is a musical prodigy, and Mizi genuinely loves singing Luka is literally made for it, and Hyuna also loves singing and seems to have this natural stage presence

but all Ivan's good at is following orders

[snownorites]

Some disjointed thoughts on Sua and her sister that I had yesterday cause I've seen some people on twt being really adamant that Sua was in the "loved before anakt" category and I don't think that's what the point of Heavenly Garden is personally

For one, I don’t think she's actually looking out for Sua here. (using WhataFruit's translation)

I think her intention was to make Sua feel bad about herself. The word choice is extremely deliberate: "you're so unkempt" "that is unseemly" "you're already dumb enough as it is". That last one is obvious but those first two I think are super important to understanding the kind of competitive environment "being" a doll must have fostered. She's trying to put Sua "in her place" here and make her feel like she doesn't actually deserve any of the favouritism Nigeh gives her because she's "stupid" and can't even play her part properly.

And Sua has every reason to believe what her sister tells her. Outside of her cruelty she's so nice, so gentle, she even plays with her and tickles her. Ofc Sua would assume that she has the best intentions and to me that's the point of why her sister acts that way. It's not about affection or love really, it's something closer to bullying. This way every insult, every instance of belittling however small stays with her and hurts her. Her pity of Sua may be "genuine" but it seems to be more mocking? Saying that she loved Sua to me feels a bit like buying into the performance.

The framing of the comic to me is also very interesting because the contrast between Mizi and Sua's sister is telling us that we need to consider their affects on Sua in relation with each other. Sua did not feel loved before she met Mizi.

Her saying this is supposed to show that her sister was all she ever knew in terms of human connection. "Back then" as in before meeting Mizi.

Sua thinks that her sister was actually the pitiful one all along but something really interesting is that it's not because she finally found self worth or because she knows that her sister was wrong about her being unkempt or "stupid", it goes right back to love. Her sister is pitiful because she didn't know love.

That heavenly garden, Mizi, loving and being loved. If Sua felt love before anakt I don't really see why it'd be framed like this.

And the thing is that love is a super big theme in Alien Stage. You could very well argue that this is just how her sister shows love and since we don't have her pov the way that we do Io's or Ivan's there's absolutely no way to refute that the same way there's no way to prove that. But to me including Sua in the same category as Mizi and now Till feels really disingenuous. Mizi and Till felt loved before anakt and carried forward that love in all their actions. Sua did not and her actions reflect that.

I think that Sua's feelings of self hatred are a pretty important thing to also consider when analysing anything to do with her (and I'll probably have to do a seperate post about that because this is already so fucking long lmao) People don't pay enough attention to this and how a lot of it comes from the bullying she experienced

Before Mizi, Sua was objectified by everyone around her, humans and segyein alike. And maybe her sister was different and we'll see that in another comic but to me heavenly garden's intention is to reinforce that this bullying wasn't just the very overt kind that's shown above. Like with the new Till comic, all the material we get builds onto each other, Heavenly Garden gives context to just how sinister the bullying was.

And I don't say all this to say that people are wrong about her sister potentially loving her, maybe she did, but Sua did not feel loved or experience that love. It's weird that I'm seeing more justification and rationalisation of her sister's behaviour than people actually taking Sua's narrative into consideration and trying to understand how her sister fits into it.