#solas and anders something something

[noblemalone]

This is not about DAV this is just about solas and the bio ethics course i took in university and why i disagree with him

And i think it begins with... Acknowledging or at least discussing Solas' skewed self-perception. Solas insists he is not a God, just a Man. He says he is no more important or special than anyone else, and yet... He believes he has the authority to change the fabric of the world, right his wrongs in a way that will prove deadly for many, without their assent or input. And sure you could say that that's true of the inquisitor too, of any Leader of a Movement... But idk for me there's a paternalistic quality there paired with a myopic hypocrisy... And if i were to view him thru a lens appropriate to his context, where so many people's lives are at the whim of rulers and leaders, would i be kinder to him? That's why Sera is such a good foil to him...

But at least the kings claim the Divine Right of Kings as reasoning for their ability to make those kinds of decisions, right? At least Gods acknowledge they are Special and Above and that Gives Them The Right. I have to wonder, if Solas sees himself as typical, average, just a man, how does he justify his plan? Is it just the Utilitarian idea that the Goodness of tearing down the veil will outweigh the death and suffering it causes? It must be it must be that for him to believe he is Just a Man and also In The Right, right?

Like... The narrative my prof used was, imagine you could end all suffering, bring about a utopian world of joy, but to do so, you had to assign all suffering forever to one child. Everyone else gets to live happy fulfilling lives but that child who is whole innocent must, by necessity, suffer and only suffer, forever. I think Solas would unequivocally agree that that child is a necessary sacrifice.

But is tearing down the fade a guaranteed end to suffering? Or just an end to the world Solas finds himself out of step with, one he personally does not find appealing. Was it better then, or just different? Better for who? And after a thousand years of wandering and dreaming and reminiscing, is his judgement not clouded by nostalgia? If he is no god but mere man, does he not suffer from imperfection of memory? And if it was better, what gives him the right?

And there's that thing where like.... I cant for the life of me find it but it's about abortion but i feel it applies here... Like, if we nuked Australia today and killed all Australians, that would be Wrong and Bad... But if we went back in time before anyone ever lived in australia and blew it the fuck up, that would be fine right because there would Be No Australians to deprive of land or life, right? Because they were never born because Australia didn't exist. Like... It's wrong to take a life but there's nothing wrong with removing the possibility of life from some theoretical person who wont have it yk... Like

I think this is a more apt comparison than the trolley problem when it comes to Solas. If we take the Australia thing, flip it twist it... Is it ok to deprive some people of the life they know so that some others may have a life better than they currently know? Like, Solas is the only one who knows what everyone else is missing, hes the only one who knows it could be better does he really owe it to the unaware to bring things back to the way it was? If we could create Australia would we owe it to the potential Australians to do that?

And i guess the black box here or the the the missing piece is how the Spirits on the other side of the veil factor into this. My own personal bias is not to value them as highly as the humanoids (dwarf elf human qunari etc) who are our point of view reference characters and most similar to the people i know and think about in my own life. And how does a spirit of mischief or justice or pride or wisdom or whatever, how does it stack up? Are they owed a lifting of the veil because they are as full and sentient as humanoids? Or are they mere elements of ourselves? How do fuckin souls or whatever part of us wlaks the fade when we dream, how do they factor in?

Are the spirits in the fade the children we've condemned to suffering, not for a utopia but just for a status quo? And even if they are, is it fair to make the masses who have no idea or choice pay the price to tear down the veil? Is there no way to slowly thin it, to quell the angry spirits with a slow fade (haha pun get it)?

Like I'm not a dragon age scholar I'm not 100% certain of what exactly the danger of tearing down the veil is other than all the demons that will kill ppl and the general unrest and violence that will happen as things reset to how it was before... And even then how long will it take for that to happen? If no one dies anymore will those who survive have to live for all eternity remembering their own Before, the familiar life they had and how it was upended to fulfill some guy's expectation of what "Better" is? Like is their suffering worth it? Is subjecting them to short term suffering for a future you never asked them if they wanted worth it?

And like... How much can you respect them or care for them or see them as equals if you never asked them? Its condescending, I think, to decide that what you want, the history only you know, is objectively Better for Everyone and I just...

I think it all boils down to... One of the things i value most, the thing that to me is a direct result of respect, is autonomy. And i just cant square how Solas could say he respects people, sees himself as one of them and not above them, if he is willing to impose his will upon them like ... Perhaps it is the trolley problem. Allow people to scrape by, but they are free within their oppressive system, or free them from their oppressive system by forcing them into a new reality that is more familiar, comfortable, and better to you.

I think if Solas really wanted to atone for what he did, putting up the veil, he would find a way to Hurt People Less. He would sacrifice himself. Or maybe instead of of of doing what he thinks is best, he'd give the elves of today the tools and opportunities to make their own decisions and seek their own liberation...

Or maybe he just cares about the spirits more than the people on our side of the veil. After all, maybe he relates to them more...

Anyway... Yeah i just... Solas is a great guy he makes great points i don't doubt his heart is in the right place but i think he's... He's too proud. He's got too much of an ego and it makes him paternalistic and that, for me personally and my morals and values, is something I can't sit with something I dont agree with. Maybe I think the freedom to choose is more important than freedom from suffering.

Yeah i think that's it.

[a-drama-addict]

not caring too much about a fandom’s favourite guy is the worst. you’ll think “oh i’ll look into the tag see if anything new and cool’s there” and it’s just that fucking guy again

[sunlight-shunlight]

anyway dai solas you will always be famous to me. nothing but respect for my boy who wandered off mid-cutscene in the hinterlands to go help out refugees, is extremely good at Lies Of Omission™️, has a whole spy/agent/informant network of elves who followed him, fervently argues that it's unethical to be happy about killing bandits bc they had lives and loved ones, describes his own temple(?) prison(?) as having "indecipherable" elven writing, has ferocious debates with dorian and iron bull about slavery, set himself on fire once by mistake, and within about a year of his 10000 year lifespan, went from seeing all the world as disposable emotionless husks, to developing actual friendships and even falling in love.

and then! still thought it was necessary to destroy and reset the world! but he would treasure the chance to be wrong again!!

[mourn-and-watch]

you know what. i actually love that trying to talk to solas was the last thing varric did and it ended in complete failure. especially if you put it in the context of his feelings about anders. varric was so bitter every time he mentioned him because he could not stop him. he didn't even realize that anders was up to something and when it was too late he started to think of him as of someone who destroyed that fragile peace in kirkwall that actually never existed.

it adds layers to the way he felt about solas. he believed that time he could stop a friend who simply lost his way. because varric tethras can talk anyone out of anything, can't he? anders was just too dodgy and self-centred and cut everyone off just like solas did but this time varric is completely prepared. surely. absolutely.

he could have never talked anders out of it even if he had known what was coming. he could have never talked solas out of it either. anders was a desperate person standing against (as varric himself put it) forces he couldn't possibly defeat. solas was a god standing against a couple of mortals and his own conscience buried under his guilt and regrets. being a good friend would not stop meredith's oppression. being a good friend would not stop someone who fears so much that all of the atrocities he committed were for nothing and would mean nothing at the end. varric died because he didn't realize it. he died and left his second in command with an immense guilt because they believed he knew solas enough to pull that off and there's something tragic about it

[thehawkewhocamebackwrong]

[arlathen]

ill say this bioware did finally manage to make a dragon age game where there's no romance that has more story significance than the others.

[witsserviceablesubstitute]

"Which DA2 character would side with Solas? Fenris or Anders?" It's Merrill. It's definitely Merrill.

Blue Wraith shows that Fenris is working through his biases, and I do believe Anders would too after going to extremes and then having distance from the cesspool of abuse and red lyrium that was Kirkwall. But it'd be Merrill who aligns most with a goal that could destroy magical constraints and allow the beings of Thedas and spirits of the Fade to exist together once more in an imagined utopia. She'd be pretty easily convinced that the Dalish, as they currently are, were blind and stuck in their ways too. Merrill is an easy choice for me.

Merrill, Fenris, Dorian, and Isabela make the most story sense to return I think 🤔.

[s0up-arts]

Avery is never beating the Anders allegations

[crows-of-buckets]

Do you think Varric sees a bit of Anders in Cole. A spirit possessing a human body, conflicted between his spirit and human side. And that's why he's so insistent on letting the kid be human, because he feels he's already lost one friend that way and this time he has a chance to intervene. I'm going to be ill.

[labyrinthofthestar]

da*2. is a game

[breadedsinner]

"Why is Solas treated more sympathetically than Anders" idk man by the end of each game everyone but the non-masking autistic wants him dead, so.

[biancasbow]

do I cave to the dash or write about flowers

Imma write about flowers

[pupkinpumpkin]

I would like to say thank you to Cullen for breaking the tradition of me romancing characters I actually don't want to romance bc I worry about their happiness and wellbeing if I don't

[fade-rat]

Is there a bigger red flag than a dragon age fan whose fave characters are Solas and Anders or

[sophiaea16]

"Did Varric just become stupid in Veilguard, that he'd walk up to Solas like that?"

No, I just think he knew. He's a 50-something year old rogue; he's lived in a sketchy tavern, fought all sorts of monsters, demons and abominations, witnessed all kinds of betrayal. He's seen it all, from Kirkwall to Ferelden and now Tevinter...you can't convince me he wasn't aware of what would most likely await him at the top of those stairs.

He knew, but he was tired. After losing Bartrand, Kirkwall, possibly Hawke—being away from all his friends, who ended up dispersing all over Thedas—after years of living with his regrets about the Deep Roads, about lyrium, about Bianca—about Anders, whom he couldn't save. A friend whose mind he could not change, a haunting tale now mirrored in his elven companion.

What is there left for Varric Tethras? A broken city to govern, occasional letters from friends. Maybe, but he's so tired. So tired that his well-groomed stubble has now turned into a full bush across his sunken cheeks. His flashy earrings gone, his flamboyant chain and tunic replaced by a more sober outfit, now drained of the fiery, warm colours that used to adorn his wardrobe, his hair, his eyes. Almost in greyscale now, it'd be hard to know it's Varric if it wasn't for his steady sarcastic remarks.

No, Varric was not stupid. Not in 2, not in Inquisition, definitely not in Veilguard. He was just tired, and probably figured if it was time to go, the best way to do so would be to try and redeem himself for all his perceived past failures. A domino of disastrous events started by a lyrium instrument which caused the downfall of a Tethras, ending the same exact way—except this time, it's one last sacrifice to try and break the cycle, to try and save a friend.

[mourn-and-watch]

it's so funny how da2 is widely considered to be the disgrace of da games and was also made like in a year or something but it still managed to create one of the most popular characters in the franchise. varric literally became da's in-game official narrator. anders has a wikipedia page with a controversy part highlighted. everyone is talking about solas now and for a good reason but his importance to the lore & plot is literally off the charts and he's also a god. fenris made people go crazy like that while being just a guy from a side optional quest you can accidentally skip