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goosensuch · 3 months ago

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ur all crazy for believing that Buck denying his feelings for Eddie means he doesn’t have feelings for Eddie.

I know this sounds counter intuitive. but I think if they were telling the audience that Buck loves Eddie as a friend, he would be reacting very differently to Eddie leaving.

in the context of the episode, buck spends the whole time talking about eddie and processing that eddie is gone. We saw the reactions eddies friends and collegues had to his departure, they are happy for him. buck cannot be.

Furthermore, so far in the season, his entire arc is losing Eddie. If the show was working towards buck and tommy getting back together, his feelings for tommy would have been raised at least once. instead, for the whole three episodes, buck is freaking out over Eddie leaving.

My point being, narratively speaking, buck’s arc is about Eddie, not about Tommy.

Now yes, buck and Tommy did hook up. But they hooked up in Eddie’s house, and 1/2 conversations we saw them have was about Eddie. Eddie looms like a fridged wife over their hook up and the narrative. and now we get to the denial.

The show is textually introducing the concept of Buck being in love with Eddie. This needs to be done because while a lot of fans are seeing the chemistry between the characters, there’s an epistemic gap that needs to be bridged to where the show itself can make their relationship into Plot.

We are starting thus, with their dynamic as codependent best friends. It would be boring to have Buck wake up one morning and simply come to the conclusion that he is in love with Eddie. This realisation has to come from a level of conflict in the story. Buck has to change in some way, grow or evolve in order to reach this conclusion. So, this episode was the set up to begin that growth. The idea of him being in love with Eddie is introduced, and he vehemently denies it.

BUT the denial is rather weak.

“You live in his house” - “it’s not his house, he’s a renter”

“You have feelings for him” - “he’s straight, plus I don’t have to sleep with everyone I have feelings for.”

In the scene with Tommy, he doesn’t even say that he’s not in love with Eddie, he is flustered, gives excuses, then lashes out because the conversation is uncomfortable.

In the grander scheme, the textual confirmation that Tommy broke up with Buck because he saw Eddie as competition adds more credence to Buck and Eddie being the end game couple here, not Buck and Tommy. We don’t see any of Tommy’s interior world, his thoughts or feelings. If this was about Tommy’s insecurities, it would be established that way. When it is raised in this latest episode, Buck would have gone “no girl, I don’t like him I liked you, why did u break up with me over that?” And we would get a scene of them deepening their bond and discussing their insecurities.

Instead, Buck lashes out in discomfort, pushes Tommy away again, and then goes to Maddie. His main take away from his conversation with Tommy is him being in love with Eddie. If it was about Tommy, the conversation would focus on how Buck hurt Tommy, how he feels guilty and needs to make amends. While this does come up, the focus of the conversation is the Eddie thing. Again, Buck denies his feelings, using Eddie’s heterosexuality as a shield. Maddies reaction here is more interesting to me. Her calling into question Buck’s feelings towards Eddie, as someone close to Buck, is confirmation to me that buck is not a reliable narrator of his own emotions at the moment. She has seen his journey to discovering his sexuality, and understands that he is sometimes clueless to the obvious things in front of him. Her calmly calling into question how he feels is the first time he is given space to consider this reality.

Once again, if it was about Tommy, the Eddie thing would be discussed as something Tommy said, why he might think that. But the main focus is on whether Buck is in love with Eddie or not.

On a separate note, Buck is baking again. He’s not baking over his break up with Tommy, he’s baking over his loss of Eddie. This parallel, showing bucks feelings for Tommy as equivalent to his feelings for Eddie, by showing him coping with their loss in the same way, is honest to god textual evidence that buddie is going canon. Yes it’s a small detail but I think an important one.

Buck isn’t even aware that he’s doing it, he’s absentmindedly baking from the moment Eddie leaving becomes real. Much like he’s unaware of how he feels about Eddie. He’s coping the same way out of instinct.

While his words speak to one reality, his actions speak to another. There is a very clear line being drawn between how Buck is reacting to Eddie leaving, and how everyone else is feeling. Textually introducing Buck being in love with Eddie with a denial of this does not necessitate Buck not being in love with Eddie. It speaks to an arc beginning. If the arc was Buck and Tommy being getting back together, Buck would be focused on their hook up and conversation, not on whether he’s hypothetically in love with his straight best friend.

#911 #9-1-1 #buddie #Eddie Diaz #evan “buck” buckley #if I see one more person say that this show isn’t that nuanced and Buck saying he’s not in love with Eddie is putting it to rest I will cry #no this show is not subtle #so it’s extremely wild to me that people r still missing the point #Tommy fans r weird ngl #he’s such a dull and nothing man #I do not get why anyone wants him to have more screen time #plz free me from seeing his annoying face #and his one tonality that he does to indicate that he is gay #hulks son gave Tommy a gay voice and was like that’s enough acting actually ❤️#buddie is just so much more compelling and exciting in every way #bummy is just two dudes kissing there’s absolutely no depth or substance there #and none of this is ground breaking queer rep btw #it’s all cis gays lads #and if u hate Eddie ur so weird #acc what’s ur issue #n e way #enough hating #anti bucktommy

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elowai · 2 months ago

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As a 28 year old Star Wars fan, I want to make an uncomfortable perspective known here and see if I’m alone in this? I love Rogue One. I also enjoy Andor. Andor has me hooked with its layered writing and interesting characters. However, am I the only one feeling some concerns with how Rogue One will be “seen differently” as Tony Gilroy and the other actors have stated? Or is anyone kind of feeling off about Cinta’s death in the last episode? Or how about how Bix’s character is being written?

While the writing is well-crafted, exciting, fun, thrilling, and amazing at political commentary — why are most of the women serving as a “trope”?

Why is Tony Gilroy only writing these new female characters….so similarly?

Cinta Kaz - minimal screen time, has a small intimate scene with Val, dies because “bury your gays” cliche/trope. Some character agency is shown but again we don’t really get to know her. REALLY!?

Vel Sartha - some screen time, no real plot after Aldhani besides trauma moments. No real character agency thereafter.

Bix Caleen - decent amount of screen time, mostly being traumatized. Only agency and plot is avenging her trauma. “attractive traumatized female love interest” trope. Her only purpose is Cassian’s narrative and “humanity” and “home” or whatever.

Kleya Marki - Works under Luthen Rael. Finally had a scene and agency these last 3 episodes

Dedra Meero - Works under male ISB. The ONLY character with more agency but of course she is also manipulative, cold, and “using” a “mean well” dumb guy to really hammer home how “evil” she is because what she is doing isn’t evil or psychotic enough to the viewer….so kinda serves for Syril’s character to possibly have a redemption arc or pity story oh how men can be tricked into fascist things because inadequacy…..blah blah blah not about her character once again because she isn’t given enough with all these other male characters ordering her around. Whatever.

If you take ANY of these women out of the story compared to Nemik, Sloan, Luthen Rael, etc. NOTHING REALLY CHANGES THE STORY. The male characters move the plot. The women do not. They’re condensed to trauma porn.

The only reason Mon Mothma has more agency is because her character was already established setting up the rebellion. Tony Gilroy didn’t create her character so she doesn’t count.

On to Rogue One — my biggest fear is that they will pull “Cassian basically sees himself in Jyn because she enters the story where he was XX years ago in Andor.” — like NO. That wasn’t their dynamic in Rogue One. Jyn’s character/story would then be resold as a reflection of Cassian’s story. The viewer will now see Cassian as the catalyst and main drive for Rogue One when it was supposed to be HER. DAMN. MOVIE. Jyn’s character’s personality was written and all the different plots she had — SHE was the catalyst. The spark. The energy. The glue. It Jyn’s story of survival and taking agency back into her life. Cassian always had that offered to him in comparison. Jyn is NOT a parallel.

The last thing I want to remind everyone is that Star Wars usually caters to a “young male” audience. They’re pretty open about it. However, Jyn Erso is my catalyst too. I want better from male writers. We should expect it too.

Either way, I enjoy Andor but you can REALLY TELL it was written by a white man.

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gods-perfect-idiots · 9 months ago

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Okay bear with me folks, I have some ~thoughts~ about the Vanessa/Wade relationship (or frankly lack thereof) in Deadpool & Wolverine. I should start by saying that I am analyzing this with the (likely erroneous) assumption that everything on screen is 100% intentional and mindfully written to deepen the characters and inform their arcs. For the record, I don't necessarily believe that's true - there is certainly room for mistakes, lazy writing, confusing plot elements, or in this case, sidelining a potentially strong and important character for nebulous reasons (I'm guessing scheduling conflicts + run time concerns + actor's strike complications but idk for sure). (Also thanks to @gossippool and @kendyroy for encouraging me to post my thoughts instead of just rambling in the tags in the first place, y'all are the realest)

Long rambly post below the cut fyi

Now, granted, it has been a while since I watched the original Deadpool so I am not as well-versed in their early relationship as I am in the handful of scenes Morena Baccarin has in dp3, but I do think it is pretty canon that Wade generally struggles to express his deeper worries and feelings (without filtering it heavily through crude humor, sex, and pop culture references of course), especially after the events of dp1 and the physical and mental damage he sustains, and Vanessa is frankly no exception despite how much he cares for her. The entire first movie hinges on the fact that he doesn't really believe she could love him in his post-Francis mangled state, which is pretty contrived imo given that the film has established already how bonded they are, and she doesn't strike me as being written to be so shallow as to reject him based on a physical deformity. I mean iirc she wanted to stick around through chemo despite him being literally riddled with inoperable cancer, so she clearly is in it for the long haul (at least in dp1), messiness and all.

Now, in dp2, obviously she is shot and killed early in the film, and Wade spends much of the rest of the film wallowing in his very profound grief, trauma, and guilt over losing her due directly to his violent lifestyle. He goes to prison, he basically gives up on life and seems very resigned to dying once he has the power suppressant collar on, even excited to do so so he can be reunited with her. She is mostly sidelined as a Fuzzy Dead Wife trope basically, but the important thing here is that he spends weeks if not months in the throes of despair over losing the love of his life just as they were trying to start a family, and trying to reach across the boundaries of death to be with her.

Now, my first couple times watching dp3 I was frustrated by the trite narrative presented in the interview scene towards the beginning - specifically Wade's whole "my girl is getting tired of my shtick and I need to show her I matter". It felt contrived and disingenuous, and I just brushed it off as iffy writing, a means to an end, but the more I reflect upon it the more I think it is based in an emotional reality that is just handled with a very light touch by the film in favor of fanservice and Poolverine content (NOT that I'm complaining in the slightest - I think this movie is a masterpiece in many ways, albeit a flawed one but that's beside the point here), which for the record I am not against because I think it lends it an air of realism. This is Wade's story after all, Vanessa is a part of it but it is ultimately about him and his journey.

Basically, I think the combination of what happened to him in dp1 (the brain damage, the trauma, the awareness of the fourth wall, etc) followed by the events of dp2 (Vanessa's death, his grief and the associated guilt and trauma of being the direct cause of her death) led to an unbridgeable emotional gap between the two of them that ultimately leads to their breakup.

It's important to note that I don't think Vanessa has any recollection of her own death, given that Wade goes back and saves her before she can take the bullet, and so of course she can never fully fathom what Wade went through grieving her and their life together and their potential family, for however long he spent between her death and bringing her back with Cable's device. She can try (and she clearly does in the one scene I'll talk about next) but I fear she accepts, maybe even in that scene, that she can never succeed. He is beyond her reach by this point, and vice versa, his experiences having fundamentally changed him.

The one scene we really see from their relationship between dp2 and dp3 is the one where Cassandra mind-gropes Wade in the Void and we see Vanessa struggling to reach Wade across this aforementioned gap - she wants him to open up, she wants him to share what he's going through, she wants him to be the person she initially fell in love with (not even selfishly - to her nothing has changed really, because to her no time has passed). But not only does he not understand what she's really asking for but he responds in such a way that makes me think he has unprocessed issues that are only tangentially related to what she's saying - ie the stuff about mattering, about asking her if she even wants to be with him, etc. And he's not the Wade Wilson she met back in dp1 anymore. He watched her die and grieved her and brought her back, believing it would make everything go back to normal and they could resume their life together as if nothing had changed, but he has been fundamentally changed in a way that she can't grasp, even if he WAS good at externally processing his trauma openly without the artifice of wry jokes. She didn't "come back wrong" - instead, she came back exactly the same as before, but HE'S different now. Not wrong, per se. But changed.

It's an interesting scene because it's obviously a memory, and a crucial one at that, but you can see how Wade is misunderstanding what she's saying, viewing it through the prism of his own lack of self-worth and his own hopelessness - he takes away that she thinks he doesn't matter (even though like he says she didn't actually say that, but I don't think Cassandra invented that wholecloth - I think she pulled it out of his psyche because that's what he believes deep down, hence why his fixation on mattering even though she never said those words exactly), he takes away that she doesn't want to be with him, that she thinks he's nothing. Which would be frustrating as an audience member to witness as a pretty simple misunderstanding which could potentially be solved with one conversation, but it feels believable to me that these two people who have shared a great love would be fundamentally separated by unimaginable, cosmic trauma, and the on conversation they would need to have to rectify the misunderstanding is one that is impossible for Wade to verbalize and equally impossible for Vanessa to conceive of. It was one thing when they had shared trauma like violence and SA in dp1, but what Wade has gone through in dp1 and dp2, humor aside, is unfathomably traumatic, brain-breakingly so even, and that's not even factoring in the possible mental illnesses he now struggles with (I've seen folks suggest schizophrenia, DID, depression, etc. but I won't get into armchair diagnosing a fictional character here - suffice it to say he is canonically unwell as a result of what has happened to him, and yes it manifests as quirky fourth wall breaks and cheeky one-liners, but within the universe of the movies he is undeniably profoundly mentally ill, and that includes this humorous alter ego he created to cope with his trauma).

I think off-screen Vanessa probably really tried to reach him, maybe for years (the six year gap implies to me that they didn't break up immediately, that they tried for a while to stay together), trying to get her Wade back, but that Wade is gone. He struggled to express that to her until eventually he started to feel rejected because he couldn't express his trauma or how much he has changed, because even he can't fully conceive of the gulf that has formed between them. The truth is, he WANTS to be that Wade again, for her and for himself, but that Wade died when she died. Or maybe he had already started dying when Francis got a hold of him in dp1.

Anyway, all this is to say, I think Morena Baccarin WAS criminally underutilized in dp2 and dp3, but I think there is a strong argument to be made for the believability of their breakup regardless. I think even relationships built on enormous love can crumble due to trauma, and what Wade suffers over these movies is mind-bogglingly enormous trauma. It's especially heartbreaking that he blames himself for their relationship ending, talks like she just got tired of him, thought he didn't matter, whatever. But it is a credit to him that he never seems to feel anger towards her about it. He doesn't seem to feel entitled to her, though he longs for her and what they had and what she represented (hope, love, a future, a family), but ultimately she becomes more of a symbol of what he lost when he gained his powers, because let's be super fr right now - even if they had succeeded in having a baby, not only would they have lived in fear of her or the kid getting killed, but ultimately Wade would likely outlive both of them even if they managed to die natural deaths. The moment he gained his powers he was already destined to lose her, which is heartbreaking because she was the only reason he opted for the treatment in the first place - so he could stay with her.

I think a big part of Deadpool & Wolverine is watching Wade continue to process his own motivations (vis-a-vis Vanessa but also his other friends) and how he does eventually let go of the idea of "mattering" in favor of just saving the people he cares about (*cough* and being saved right back *cough* by Wolvie, as the final line and shot implies). And in the process he finds someone new who cares about him, who thinks he matters, who tries to sacrifice himself for him and his friends after mere days of knowing him, who comes home with him at the end of the story, who breaks his own centuries-old patterns, who has also experienced unimaginable grief and trauma, who has struggled with wanting to die and being unable to, who not only matches his crazy but matches his FREAK and also not only won't die on him but CAN'T die on him - and more importantly cannot be randomly killed by a stray bullet.

Idk if any of this makes much sense but I do think if you read between the lines and consider the potency of trauma and grief, guilt and emotional damage at play here, Vanessa and Wade's off-screen breakup is actually pretty realistic, and really heart-breaking to boot.

You can tell she still cares about him in so many ways - she shows up for his birthday party, she shows up to his welcome home party at the end, she finds excuses for physical contact multiple times, her eyes get soft when she looks at him, but there is a distance there that Morena Baccarin does an incredible job of portraying. She cares about him deeply, she has mourned the loss of their potential life together, she has let him go and accepted that the Wade she fell in love with is gone, but she wants him in her life even though she's moving on because she realizes he's gone somewhere she can't follow (literally and figuratively). And she wants him to be happy which is why I fully believe she would immediately clock the Poolverine of it all and not-so-subtly encourage them to make it official.

Anyway. Poolverine forever. Nothing against Vanessa at all - I think she delivers a nuanced and beautiful performance, I think their relationship is sweet and heart-wrenching in large part due to her acting chops, especially given how little she is given to work with - but I think their relationship was sadly doomed from almost the very start, because Wade becomes this traumatized superhuman and Vanessa would always be at risk in his orbit, but also would always on the outside of his multiverse superhero experiences. I think it's weirdly beautiful, even if I am filling in a lot of gaps and giving the writers maybe undue credit.

Anyway... thoughts? Please DM me or write in the tags, I am feral about this movie and just want to talk about it with anyone haha. If you have further insight into these characters too I'd love to hear it - I am by no means an expert in these movies or characters!

#wade wilson #deadpool & wolverine #deadpool and wolverine #poolverine #deadclaws #wolverine #deadpool #deadpool 3 #deadpool x wolverine #vanessa x wade #rambly meta thoughts #anyway thanks for reading if you made it through #I def didnt edit this much just sorta wrote it out #I have more to say but it will have to wait I think #deadpool meta #vanessa meta

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cosmic-walkers · 1 year ago

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I spoke about this on twitter, so I will speak about it here as well. I've had issues with making Rhaena and Baela (and Laena) black because I felt that the show very much underutilized them as characters and essentially made the plot devices for Daemon and Rhaenyra without giving them agency outside of those two. In general, their presences are heavily reduced to make them building blocks for the whit characters.

So this issue with Nettles’s arc being given to Rhaena is even more unsettling because these two are both Black women, who deserve their own separate narratives. This thing where they make characters Black only to reduce their plot importance is already insulting enough, but ruining storylines for two Black women is just lazy and disrespectful.

Rhaena deserves her own narrative. She deserves to be the last Targ woman who was able to hatch a dragon egg before Daenerys, her connection to Daenerys is supposed to be prophetical, so let it be. Let her have her own character and her own arc. They are both the mother of dragons, so let's not suddenly forget that. And having a Black woman as the predecessor to that title is important.

Nettles deserves to exist. Don’t erase a Black woman’s whole existence just to lazily slap it on another one who has an established arc. It's important to showcase a non-targ able to actually ride a dragon and tame one and to also show her importance to the Dance. She is a player even if she doesn't have Valaryian blood in her. And she is Black! That is important too.

Black characters shouldn’t be interchangeable, and making a character Black shouldn’t come at the expense of completely ruining the plot or taking away their agency in a narrative sense.

#house of the dragon #hotd #rhaena targaryen #nettles #daenerys targaryen

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caesarflickermans · 3 months ago

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SUZANNE COLLINS: SOTR EXCLUSIVE EDITIONS INTERVIEW

This is a transcript from the Barnes & Noble / Waterstones exclusive edition interview. To my knowledge, they are the same.

Not to be confused with interview on her website, which you can find here.

transcript below

DL: Did you always know you’d write a novel about the second Quarter Quell? If not, what compelled you to return to this particular point in the Hunger Games timeline?

SC: I always start with the underlying ideas—in this case, implicit submission, the uncertainty of inductive reasoning, propaganda, love—and they find their way to the story that supports them. But yes, I think I did want to do Haymitch’s story because I’ve always known that the version Katniss and Peeta saw on the train was very misleading. When I landed on implicit submission and its dependency on propaganda, Haymitch’s was the natural tale to tell. Just like the state of nature debate led naturally to Coriolanus’s story.

DL: The quote at the start of the book from the philosopher David Hume is a very telling one. It starts, “Nothing appears more surprising to those, who consider human affairs with a philosophical eye, than the easiness with which they are governed by the few; and the implicit submission, with which men resign their own sentiments and passions to those of their rulers.” This feels like a key to the entire book.

SC: If all people do is read the full Hume quote and discuss it, this book has been a win for me. This quote invites so many questions. Like, “Do you think Hume is right? As human beings, do we ultimately end up being governed by a few people? Not in, say, a totalitarian state, but in a democracy?” (After thinking about it, every single person I asked about this said yes. No one seemed happy about it.) “But why have we resigned our own sentiments and passions to those rulers? Why are we implicitly submitting to this? Especially since force is on our side, as the governed.” Hume answers that for us. We’re allowing ourselves to be controlled by “opinion.” And that’s where propaganda comes in.

All right, then, “What propaganda do we all consume on a daily basis that maintains this status quo? Is it harder to maintain in an autocracy or a democracy where we pride ourselves on our intellectual or political freedom? How much propaganda does it take to make you think that implicit submission is what you want? Is it inevitable? Is there a way to protect ourselves against it? What would that entail?”

DL: Haymitch is starting at a very different place than Katniss or Coriolanus—while his life has had its sadness, it’s largely been a good life so far. How does that change the stakes within the novel?

SC: Yes, his life has been largely good. A loving family, good friends, the love of his life. A sweet part-time job that may lead to a profitable, if illegal, career. He’s happy except for the shadow of the Games that hangs over them all. So, emotionally, his loss is the greatest because he has the most to lose. And unlike Katniss and Coriolanus, who have loved ones to the end, Snow tries to strip Haymitch of everything: family, friends, lover, job, community, happiness, and the freedom to love anyone. His personal stakes couldn’t be higher.

DL: What was it like to be creating a new work that you’d already loosely outlined in Catching Fire?

SC: Actually, it helped. Younger me provided a protagonist, his arena, his overall arc, and some of the cast, including Maysilee Donner. Having to build off the recap, not having everything to decide, meant some extra challenges on the plotting side, but ultimately it was freeing. I just had to work within what was established. Of course, knowing that the narrative had been manipulated into a piece of Capitol propaganda gave me a lot of freedom as well.

DL: It’s such an interesting scenario, to have our very reliable narrator understand that he is surrounded by so many unreliable narrators — and that, in fact, unreliable narration is a powerful political tool. The “card-stacking” that helps him a little in the beginning (with Plutarch using the manipulation as an excuse to give Haymitch time with his family) ends up being existentially overwhelming when Haymitch watches the “recap” of the Games and realizes how history is truly written by the victory (and not the Victor). To me, this felt like the biggest revelation to Haymitch — the sheer degree of manipulation. Can you talk a little about how this revelation about propaganda sits within the larger scope of the series?

SC: After he watches the reaping on the train, Haymitch realizes that he’s the Gamemakers’ puppet and that they will manipulate his image and actions to serve their needs. Within the arena, he can only wonder what they’re showing the audience. But the full force of their deception doesn’t hit him until he sees how completely they’ve changed his story the night he’s crowned. Remember, too, that in order to appease Snow and protect his loved ones and, when that fails, to fulfill his promise to Lenore Dove, he has to carry the Gamemakers’ narrative forward as the absolute truth. It’s an enormous burden that he bears alone because all of his allies who lived the truth are dead. Keeping the real version straight in his own head while promoting the fabricated version would require constant vigilance. But deep down, even through his white liquor fog, he realizes it’s imperative that he do it. If he can’t distinguish between the two, the Capitol wins. This foreshadows Peeta’s hijacking in Mockingjay and reinforces the question the whole series asks about the information we’re consuming: “Real or not real?”

DL: If I could give you a time machine back to when you were writing Catching Fire, would you have asked yourself to do anything differently?

SC: No, but maybe in the Mockingjay book. I might have shortened the period between Haymitch being crowned victor and when he loses his family. It doesn’t need to be two weeks. Although it does give Snow an additional window to torment him in the Capitol. But really, he could have gone straight home after the Victor’s Ceremony.

DL: Besides Haymitch, was there any other character from the trilogy that you particularly enjoyed revisiting in Sunrise?

SC: I love doing all of them: Plutarch, Effie, Beetee, Mags, Wiress, Burdock, Asterid. Getting to share who they were and what motivated them. They didn’t arise fully formed in the trilogy. All the characters are on journeys. Beetee losing Ampert, Effie clinging to her Capitol beliefs, Asterid healing the sick in 12, Plutarch still staying in the games. Everybody has their own story.

DL: One of the most fascinating things about seeing the Games play out over time — going from the Tenth to the Fiftieth to the Seventy-fourth and Seventy-fifth — is understanding both the evolution of the Games and the evolution of the roles within the Games. In particular, I’d love to ask you about the contrast between Drusilla and the Effie of the Trilogy. There seems to be a profound generational difference that shapes their view of their role in the Games — and, indeed, seeing the start of Effie’s relationship here made me suddenly understand the dynamic that must have governed District 12 tributes for the next twenty-five years. Can you talk about what makes Drusilla tick versus what ultimately makes Effie tick?

SC: As escorts, both Drusilla and Effie are ambassadors for the Hunger Games. Drusilla who lived through the cruelties of the Dark Days, has channeled her experience into vengeance against the districts. She’s dehumanized her enemy, referring to them as beasts and pigs, and she has no qualms about ushering the piglets into the arena. Effie, born decades after the war, has embraced the Hunger Games as her patriotic duty. She’s been raised on them as necessary evil and a reminder of a war that Panem can never afford to repeat. Unlike Drusilla, she believes all the participants have a noble role to play. That begins to wear thin over the years. Every Games it becomes harder to justify the atrocity. You can see her clinging to good manners for reassurance of humanity’s decency. But in terms of the Hunger Games, Effie being assigned as their escort was a lucky break for District 12. She might be ridiculous, but she’s not malicious.

DL: Even though Maysilee is mentioned in Catching Fire, we really get to know her for the first time in this book. In many ways, she’s not so much defined by her privilege as she is by her lack of control over her life — when we first talked about her, you said she was “indentured into a life she doesn’t want.” What do you think fuels Maysilee, both in the arena and out of it?

SC: Rage. She’s one of the angriest characters I’ve ever written. She’s mad about the injustice of the world she’s born into and not it threatens and limits her life on every level. Before she’s reaped, that just manifests as meanness. But once she’s reaped, she begins to evolve and focus that emotion on the Capitol. She remembers who the enemy is.

DL: Snow makes quite an appearance when he arrives at Plutarch’s apartment. What was it like to see him in this era, after spending so much time with his younger self when writing Ballad?

SC: When I started working on this book, for the first time Snow and I were about the same age. We’re both entering our third act. I could feel his middle-agedness in mind and body, imagine his lost and realized dreams, and sense the cost of maintaining them. He's devoted his whole life to controlling Panem. But the work will never be done. It's exhausting.

Emotionally, he's beginning to reflect back on his life. His loves and losses. His resentment at the Heavensbee library when his own childhood books were burned for warmth, his cynicism over Haymitch's romance, his fear and loathing of District 12. I enjoyed having Lucy Gray's memory rise up and disrupt his life.

DL: And poor Haymitch doesn't even know why he's setting Snow off! But that does lead me to a question about Lenore Dove, who has grown up in a very different Covey world than Lucy Gray. How do you feel her outlook is shaped by her Covey roots?

SC: Lenore Dove romanticizes the Covey's prewar days as itinerant musicians on the open road. She also knows the losses that followed, the murdered parents and orphaned Covey children. And in particular, she's haunted by the fate of Lucy Gray. She wears bright bits of Lucy Gray's dress about her person and keeps her forbidden lyrics alive in private performances for Haymitch and Burdock. The Capitol has never meant anything but oppression and pain for her people; and that fuels her desire to bring it down.

DL: And how did Poe become such a part of the book?

SC: Haymitch's love needed a name. Since she's Covey, that starts with a ballad. I knew she'd died young, as Haymitch mentions this in Mockingjay. So, love of his life - her early death + his relentless grief = Edgar Allan Poe. I’m right back at the Romantic poets again. Even then, I’ve got several poems to choose from — “Annabel Lee,” “Ulalume,” “Lenore,” “To One in Paradise” — but I couldn’t resist “The Raven.”

DL: One of the things I love about Ballad and Sunrise is that they make the series much more about “the long game,” showing that the events of the trilogy don’t happen because the right girl shows up at the right time, but because of decades of planning. In many ways, Plutarch’s extremely ambiguous role is the biggest acknowledgment we have of long-game tactics. I don’t want you to try to pin him down here — I know he is ambiguous for a reason — but perhaps you could discuss his role.

SC: Plutarch’s the master of the long game. In Sunrise, we see him as a young man who’s convinced the government needs overthrowing, but he’s just taking his first baby steps. by the time we get to the trilogy, he’s masterminding the rebellion. He’s built a network in both the districts and the Capitol. He’s found an army in District 13 and allied with Coin. When Katniss shows up, he’s got a Mockingjay for his propaganda. He orchestrates the Airtime Assault that brings down the Capitol. And he manages to do all of this while convincingly playing a Gamemaker.

He doesn’t glorify humanity. At the end of the war, he tells Katniss, “We’re fickle, stupid beings with poor memories and a great gift for self-destruction. Although who knows? Maybe this will be it, Katniss.” And when she asks what, he answers “The time it sticks. Maybe we are witnessing the evolution of the human race.” So, at heart, he’s an optimist. He doesn’t accept that war and self-destruction are inevitable. Plutarch believes that we’re all on a continuum. We’re all ultimately playing the long game. You may fight your whole life for a greater good and never see the fruits of your labor. Plenty of people have done that historically. And so he tells Haymitch, “You were capable of imagining a different future. And maybe it won’t be realized today, maybe not in our lifetime. Maybe it will take generations. We’re all part of a continuum. Does that make it pointless?” I think that’s a question we all have to ask ourselves.

DL: When we first discussed the manuscript, you told me, “Books are part of Plutarch’s privilege.” In seeming contrast, there is the transmission of stories through song that we see echoing within Haymitch. I’d love for you to share more about this and the role books and songs play in the storytelling within this series.

SC: The Heavensbees have enormous wealth and privilege and, largely thanks to Trajan Heavensbee, that has allowed them to collect and protect an impressive library. The only other personal collection we’re sure exists belongs to the Covey. Much smaller, of course, but it’s apparently got some great books in it. Poetry, philosophy, literature, and at least one guide to raising poultry. The only book the Everdeens owned was the edible and medicinal plant guide they made themselves. That expands into the memorial book at the end.

District 12 doesn’t have many books, but they have plenty of songs. Why? Because a book can be burned, but you can’t burn a song. It can be passed along from person to person without a trace, no physical form required. Theoretically, you could commit a book to memory, like in Fahrenheit 451, but that’s a talent not everybody’s going to share.

By the trilogy, the songs have been discouraged as well. Under Snow, the live music in 12 devolves from the Covey performing in the Hob in The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes to a trio of instrumentalists in Sunrise on the Reaping to a lone fiddler (Clerk Carmine) in the trilogy. Lucy Gray’s songs, which Katniss sings unaccompanied in the trilogy, are held in memory and are passed along orally. Snow would love to stamp them out entirely, not just because he doesn’t like music, but because they’re powerful politically. A protest song like “The Goose and the Common” can articulate an injustice, stir people up, and become a rallying point.

DL: Just because you mentioned it, I’m going to ask: Are Snow and Clerk Carmine the only two people we see in Ballad, Sunrise, and the trilogy? (I won’t ask what Tigris is up to during Sunrise, but whatever it is, I know it’s good.)

SC: Yes, I think it does come down to Snow and Clerk Carmine. A handful of Snow’s classmates might still be around by the trilogy, but they’re not named characters.

DL: I’m fascinated by the surface similarity of Katniss’s, Coriolanus’s, and Haymitch’s family structures. All have dead fathers. All are being raised by a mother or grandmother. All have a single sibling or cousin in their care. But even if the structures are alike, their experiences vary. In what ways do you think they were shaped similarly by this structure and in what ways were their upbringings different?

SC: You see this a lot in books for young audiences, where the protagonist is orphaned or placed outside of parental protection, leaving them to fend for themselves. It requires them to be responsible for their own survival and choices.

Haymitch has always had at least one functional parent, which is not true of the others. I think this has allowed him to be more open-hearted and optimistic than the other two heading into the story. Coriolanus is orphaned during the war and his grandmother does an impressive job keeping him and Tigris alive, but by the time that book opens she lives in her own world and her grandchildren care for her. Katniss loses her mother to grief and depression when her father dies and becomes her family's provider and protector at age eleven. Haymitch doesn't have to take full responsibility for himself until he's reaped.

DL: The role of the sibling (and I count Tigris as a sibling) is also so important within the series, to the degree that, in this book, becoming a "found" sibling is the highest mark of trust. Can you talk about exploring that dynamic within the series?

SC: In Ballad, when Coriolanus is filling out Lucy Gray's questionnaire and there's no place to record her cousins, he thinks, "There should be a place for anyone who cared for you at all. In fact, maybe that should be the question to start with: Who cares about you? Or even better, Who can you count on?" There's the family you're born into and the family you choose. All the protagonists have trustworthy families to begin with, but they adopt "found" siblings as well and those bonds are born of experience. Maysilee for Haymitch, Finnick for Katniss, even Sejanus for Coriolanus. People who care about you that you can count on. They replicate the natural sibling bond and aren't limited by biology. All of them ultimately find siblings among people they once viewed as antagonists.

DL: With the Newcomers, we see a different angle to the presentation of alliances within the Games — and in some ways, this alliance is in conversation with the alliance that forms in Catching Fire. In many ways, alliances are the unsung hero of the series, especially when we look at the long game. What does Ampert establish with the Newcomers that echoes throughout the series?

SC: Ampert’s laying the groundwork for the rebellion later with the district alliance in the third Quarter Quell. It’s a work in progress. Even in the trilogy, we’re well into the war before the rebels finally get all the districts on board. But Ampert’s message wins out. “We don’t have to put up with living under the Capitol’s rule. We have greater numbers, more power, more strength. We can change our lives.”

DL: I love how within Sunrise we see how Mags’s and Wiress’s mentoring styles contrast — and neither one is at all like Haymitch’s mentoring style in the trilogy. I can’t believe I’ve never asked you this question before, but of all the characters we’ve seen across the five books, which one would you most want to be your mentor?

SC: Haymitch, but not until the trilogy when he pulls himself together. Before that, I think I’d go with Mags, who’s brought home several victors while retaining her humanity.

DL: How thoroughly do you outline before you start writing?

SC: Pretty thoroughly, this time more than usual. I started with Post-its and laid out everything that was established about the second Quarter Quell in the version that Katniss and Peeta watch on the train in Catching Fire. Then I added in a few things that Haymitch mentions to Katniss in Mockingjay. And finally, I overlaid that with the story of what really happened. Additionally, I had to weave in characters and events from the past and the future.

There are a lot of balls to keep in the air. Multiple versions exist of, say, the reaping: the one we live through with Haymitch, where Woodbine gets killed; a second that’s aired to the public after the delay; a third of Plutarch’s card-stacked edit that they broadcast the night of the reaping that includes footage of Ma and Sid; and a fourth version played during Haymitch’s Victor’s Ceremony, which seems quite close to the one Katniss and Peeta view, but it could have been tweaked a bit over time. It’s a lot to keep straight.

DL: In terms of the smaller connections between this book and the other books (like the use of the word sweetheart or the presence of geese in Haymitch’s early story), were these things you knew going into the book from the start, or were they things that happened when you were putting words to the page?

SC: These were things I knew about, but I didn’t know if I’d ever write Haymitch’s story and have the opportunity to lay in their history. So many things are like that when you’re building a world. But Haymitch’s decision to tend geese at the end of Mockingjay wasn’t random.

DL: And, of course, for my final question I need to ask... what do you have against gumdrops?SC: Not a thing.

#sunrise on the reaping #sotr #thg #the hunger games #thg resources

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iscdisc · 4 months ago

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The Farmhouse Arc should've been the most significant character growth period for 2012 April as a character, and I kind of wanted to talk about that- Lmao

I apologize for not for recalling the user who's post I saw talking about this (I'll definitely @ them if I end up finding them / their post again-), but I recently came across somebody mentioning how they felt 2012 April should have experienced some self-loathing during The Farmhouse Arc given the whole Irma / Kraang Invasion situation-

I completely agree ! But that made me want to expand on that in my own way, because this is something that I genuinely enjoy getting into since there was so much potential (As most things in 2012 have-) that just didn't used,,

Since we've already established time and time again with this series that the writing is not as good as it could be, it "makes sense" that April barely felt any guilt outside of the initial S2 finale and the mistakes that she made don't even get brought up during the aftermath that is the Farmhouse Arc (If we're really being honest, they don't even really get brought up during the initial Season 2 finale- 💀). But if the show had better writing, April should have and would have felt more guilt / had that guilt be very apparent throughout the Farmhouse Arc in how she moves and talks to the Turtles + Casey during their stay there. Not to say that everything was entirely her fault, such as Irma being Kraang Subprime in disguise (She didn't ask for that nor did she cause that to happen-), but it should be acknowledged that their lack of an upper hand feels attributed to her actions the most in this particular Season finale.

I mean, honestly what was she even doing-?? I'm not trying to necessarily give a pass to Casey here, since I know that he was also goofing off / not taking things as seriously as he should have been even though he technically was helping Raph search for Karai- But at least he was with Raph, you know what I mean? Raph and Casey (technically) were searching the city for Karai as it means of protecting her and keeping her safe from the imminent Kraang Invasion (They were also looking for her post her mutation in general, but it was especially dire now-), Leo and Donnie (and Mikey technically-) are in the Lair deliberating on courses of action (Both on options to confront the incoming Kraang Invasion but also means of a safety net, something that Leo in particular was stressing they have outside of the city-). What is April doing during this time? What was her big contribution to this incoming threat? Hanging out with Irma. Like what- Lmao

I understand that like a lot of things that this show has 2012 April do or say, it's just used as a plot device or something to push the narrative that they're going for (Which is incredibly irritating, since it basically sacrifices any good character writing for her so that they can just move the plot along- Regardless of whether or not it makes sense for her as a character to do or not do- But I digress.), and this is just another example of that. But I would be lying if I said this particular aspect of the S2 finale has never made a lick of sense to me, even to this day. A second attempt at a Kraang Invasion is literally on the horizon, and instead of being with her team + actively helping / contributing in some way to this inevitable issue, April's hanging out with Irma-? The writers don't even give any context prior either, like the two of them coming from the movie theater or April's home or something. They provide no explanation as to why April's even spending her time with Irma in this moment.

Which, just like most things in this show, I'm not even saying that that had to have been a poor choice? This is why context is important- If they had shown April clearly stewing over the incoming Kraang Invasion as she's on her way to meet up with everybody else to discuss their options and Irma "just so happened" to essentially ambush April with her presence, thus making April feel obligated to entertain her for the time being? That would have made a lot more sense. It also would have been a great way to foreshadow the events to come in relation to Irma, since there would have been a clear atmosphere change and some unspoken reason as to why Irma wants her attention so badly right now- It also wouldn't have taken up a lot of runtime in my opinion, so I don't understand why they didn't do something like that? 💀

But to not derail from the initial point, (Given the poor writing, I know-) April basically brings a bunch of chaos to the Turtles (and Casey) and quite literally does the bare minimum about it. When she (unintentionally) reveals their home to the enemy, what does she do throughout that entire ambush? Hide. She doesn't even make any attempts to fight off the Kraang that are flooding into the Liar and essentially destroying their home.

What did she do after they escaped the sewers? Take them to her apartment, which initially was just meant to help Donnie get patched up before revisiting the chaos she (unintentionally) created, but instead April ends up staying in her apartment with her cowardly Father-?? For way longer than she should have. I understand that April does not control Donnie and it's not / shouldn't be her role to influence his decisions, but it was also upsetting to know that she was basically the reason Donnie was so inactive (Since he refused to "leave her side" or whatever-) and this in turn caused Mikey to also be inactive because (Rightfully so??) he's not going to go out there by himself- So April (more or less) was the reason why the three of them did nothing but wait around in her apartment until Raph and Casey arrived. She technically "did something" during the fight (more or less) with Kraang Prime in the Turtle Mech, but that only partially counts to me because that was more of a group effort (Since it's ideal for four people to be working the robot and she pulled like one lever or something like that- Lmao).

And of course, there was that psychic freakout that she had at the end of the S2 finale, but those never count to me because that's not something that she's consciously making an effort to do- If that makes sense? If April wasn't this special Human + Kraang Mutant Hybrid, she would just be freaking out like a regular person, and that would have done nothing for them- You know what I mean? (I really loathe these psychic freakouts that the writers have April do for this very reason-)

If you really pick apart April's role in the S2 finale, she mostly escalates the situation and does very very little to alleviate any of it or contribute positively in some way. Again, I acknowledge this is a poor writing decision and most likely influenced by their want to move the plot along and make this season finale "really dramatic"- But that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to acknowledge it for what it is. Lmao

That being said though, I can now circle back to the topic at hand, which is that the Farmhouse Arc should've been a huge growth period or her as a character. ESPECIALLY in regards to her relationships with the Brothers and Casey.

The S2 finale should have been a situation that caused the group to view April differently. Not in the sense that they view her as an enemy or something of that nature, more that they're finally more openly acknowledging that she makes a lot of mistakes. Mistakes that they (More so the Brothers than Casey-) usually suffer the brunt of the consequences of. This is something that I feel is very apparent with her character (S2 the most-), and while that isn't a bad thing since a lot of characters in 2012 make mistakes, it's very obvious that the main group responds incredibly differently to her mistakes than any other character's mistakes. She's never forced to dwell on her wrongdoings or missteps, nor does the group ever harp on them or make her feel guilty for a prolonged duration of time like they do with other characters. We see this constantly throughout the series. The Brothers and Casey are always quick with their reassurance and understanding, always quick to tell her it isn't a big deal or that they got it handled, etc.

While it's not necessarily a bad thing to support her or make efforts to prevent her from developing a lack of self confidence, there's a fine line between giving support and coddling a person. Oftentimes, I feel like this teeters into the coddling side of things rather than genuinely supporting her. They essentially treat her like a child (so to speak), in the sense that they'd rather her believe that she "didn't do anything wrong" and that *everything's okay" instead of being honest when she makes mistakes or acts in ways that genuinely upsets them or off puts them.

THIS?? The S2 finale / Kraang Invasion?? This 1000% should have been the boiling point, and Raph in particular should've been the one to tip over the metaphorical pot. A theory that I have for the S2 finale going into the Farmhouse Arc that I believe holds up very well is Raph and Casey not being privy to the fact that April caused a lot of the chaos that they experienced during that finale. Of course, once they initially left New York City, their priorities were more focused on getting to safety (the O'Neil Farmhouse) and helping Leo in some way / shape / or / form giving his uncertain condition health wise. So it makes sense that this wasn't a topic of conversation immediately. However, it would not surprise me in the slightest if Donnie had made the decision to not tell Raph and Casey about what had transpired in the Lair that day (Or at the very least not the whole story, which would include April's involvement-). Convincing Mikey (And somewhat April-) to do the same. Because why wouldn't he? April's always been his top priority, and if not telling Raph and Casey the truth means protecting her, then he most likely will do that. Because I'm sure he knows Raph would be pissed beyond belief.

AND AS HE SHOULD BE- Hello?? If Raph found out that the reason why the Kraang Invasion began sooner than they planned thus causing them to be incredibly unprepared / their Lair got discovered and destroyed by said Kraang Invasion / Leo got separated from the group (And took on Shredder alone, but I fully acknowledge that that wasn't April's fault, I feel like that was a really stupid call on Leo's part during this finale-) / Splinter got separated from the group and this causing a domino effect that led him to confronting Shredder and being thrown further into the sewers and Raph ( + Donnie / Mikey / and April-) witnessing that horrific event was because of APRIL -?? Regardless of whether or not it was an accident, I think he would have a right to be upset with her. Because like I said before, she's had a lot of accidents that they've had to clean up before.

So just picturing Raph chewing her out at The Farmhouse and finally addressing how upset he's been with her in the past but bit his tongue so many times because she's supposed to be their friend?? That's "Chef's Kiss" tier conflict in my opinion. I genuinely feel like something of this nature was meant to happen and should have happened. A mistake of this caliber should have affected her relationships with them. Of course, Raph is the only one that I truly see being so unapologetically upset with April over this. Casey and Mikey would probably fall under some kind of murky mix of emotions, where they understand why they should be upset with her and to a degree they are, but they don't necessarily want to isolate her or cut her out of their lives- You know? I feel like their body language around her would be the biggest tell though, especially Mikey's, which I think would hurt April a lot (But it's not like she's really in a position to argue against it,,). I also think it would hurt Mikey a lot too, since being in this kind of position would make him incredibly uncomfortable for sure and I'd imagine he wouldn't like the way he's instinctively reacting to her presence nowadays,,

Donnie, of course, would be the only one "acting the same" towards April / around April. But deep down I think even he knows that something has changed between them, something that he would be in denial about for a majority of their stay there. I think this would have been a really great way to progress their relationship though- Both in the context of pushing for their romantic relationship (Which again, I personally am not a huge fan of 2012 Apritello, but I also don't want to exclude these things-) but also dismantling it entirely. On one hand, I think this would have been a really unique way to finally get Donnie to view April as an individual rather than simply the "object of his affections". Fully allowing those rose-colored glasses to be put aside for a second, you know? This should have been an event that tested his (so called) love for April in my eyes. Because if he doesn't love her and value her as a person, especially when she's at her lowest or has made some of her biggest mistakes (Ones that directly affect him-), then can he really say he loved her at all? I also think this should have been a great arc for Donnie as far as not making excuses for April anymore, since this is a bad habit he's (seemingly) nurtured. Learning that it's okay to be critical of her and these criticisms not drastically influencing their relationship or his affections towards her. But I can also see this skewing the complete opposite direction, and this finally being the event that ends the crush saga all together-

I personally felt like this was a very realistic possibility, since Donnie's crush on April is very surface level (He only "fell" for April because she was the first girl he witnessed upon leaving his home for the first time + he thought she was very pretty. He never makes any genuine attempts to get to know her as a person, and this feels very apparent given his behaviors and actions towards her. When he made his chart to "successfully get April to hang out with him" back in S1, everything that he listed had everything to do with himself and nothing to do with her or her interests. He didn't even try to guess or do any kind of process of elimination for her interests through his conversations / interactions with her. Also during S1, Donnie makes the bold assumption that April will like him simply because her Father is also a scientist- Which has absolutely nothing to do with April as an individual and there's no real correlation as to why she would "like him more" simply because he's similar to her Father / Father's profession? During this exact Season, when we see him gift her the music box that he made for her in, "A Foot Too Big" / S3 EP 2 /, April clearly looks uncomfortable for very obvious reasons but another thing that comes to mind is whether or not she even likes music boxes-?? There's no real explanation as to why he thought this would be a good gift for her- 💀). So to me, it makes sense that having his Rose colored glasses shattered / having a situation that practically forces Donnie to truly see her as an individual who's flawed and makes mistakes like this one would cause his crush on her to essentially evaporate instantly. Because what was his crush / infatuation founded on in the first place-? You know what I mean? I can also see his crush dissipating because of April and how she's handling this entire situation. I can see her handling it poorly in two different senses, the first being that she becomes very overly sensitive and defensive (Since Raph blowing up on her would be a massive hit to her pride, and as we've seen throughout the series, she's built up a pretty big ego just as much as the other characters have-) or she becomes very detached and blunt. Something that would cause her to become more openly honest with Donnie about how she views him and their relationship, that being that they just don't really have one- Finally being able to speak on how his advances make her feel and how they aren't necessarily wanted a majority of the time. :/

But now that I've established how I feel the other main characters should've responded towards April post the S2 finale / entering the S3 Farmhouse Arc (Minus Leo whose in a coma-), it's finally time to talk about how I feel April should have carried herself during this arc. Which would be BUILDING / REBUILDING HER RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS TEAM (Minus Leo, but also technically him to just after he wakes up from his coma-). One of my biggest gripes with 2012 April in relation to the group as a whole is her lack of proper dynamic with most of her teammates. Casey is honestly the only exception to this, since we do see her get more significant bonding moments with Casey / she does get a lot of one on one screentime with him on particular- But even that could use some work too. April doesn't feel like an actual friend to any of them, and that's always been something that bothers me considering how highly they regard her as a person and how much they trust her / how much they put their faith in her. It would make sense to properly establish where that trust and praise even stems from, you know what I mean? But since the writers suck ass, you can essentially just chalk this up to her being the titular girl character and therefore she "deserves this treatment" canonically. I hate that reasoning and think it's really dumb. :) Lmao

I'm not saying the entire Farmhouse Arc needed to be so April centric (Since 2012 already feels like the Leonardo and April O'Neil show a majority of the time- 💀), but I don't think it could have hurt to have a majority of those episodes have significant moments between April and a particular Brother / Casey. With Mikey and April, I think it would have been really great for April to validate his feelings and reinforce the fact that it's okay for him to be upset with people. That doesn't mean that he has to hate them forever or hold grudges like a lot of people in his life do (I can also imagine that's the biggest reason why he's so uncomfortable with the possibility that he's holding a grudge against April, since his entire life revolves around this stupid grudge between his Father and his Uncle- Because Shredder basically is their uncle and I hate that that isn't acknowledged more?? That's like top tier family drama angst right there- Lmao). But it's also not healthy for him to essentially pretend as though he doesn't feel emotions like anger and frustration and disappointment. I think it would have been really cool for April to validate his thoughts and opinions, with this being used to build a better relationship between them and result in Mikey learning to trust April once again (Not that he necessarily lost his trust in her but it felt complicated for a while-). We can also get more screentime of April loosening up and doing fun / silly things, since I'm sure Mikey would bring out that side of her ! I also think Mikey should have been the one to help her with her psychic abilities instead of Donnie, I don't know if that's a hot take but- LMAO

Like I said earlier, I don't think April didn't have a relationship with Casey but I think this situation would help strengthen it for sure. To be honest though, I don't see April necessarily needing to make a lot of amends with Casey (Aside from his Father and younger Sister getting abducted as well, and maybe this could be a good way for Casey to be able to actually talk about his family with someone onscreen-). But I do like the idea of April going to Casey a lot during the situation for advice- To have an outside looking in perspective, you know what I mean? Especially with Raph and how to fix that mess,, But this would be a great way to show how much April values Casey as a friend and respects his opinion / appreciates the fact that he's always been a shoulder for her to cry on or vent to. I also want Casey to reinforce this idea that she doesn't need to be this "perfect person". This whole character development period for her should be about that in general, but I feel like Casey / her interactions with Casey should highlight this theme the most. I think April should be able to express how difficult it's been to come to terms with the fact that she's not where she wants to be or who she thought she was, with Casey throwing out the idea that maybe that was never who she was meant to be. That it's never too late to reinvent yourself or be a different person, one that you better reflects who you are. I basically just want Casey to reinforce her individualism the most !

I'm biased, so I prefer the situation dissipating Donnie's crush on April, and for that to build a new foundation for a relationship. A platonic relationship. Donnie never truly interacted with April as a friend, always interacting with her as his crush or infatuation, you know what I mean? He read into every interaction they had, everything he did felt as though it had some romantic strings attached or implications. He needs to let that go, for sure. I think they could have had a really cool dynamic if this had happened. The writers also could have better explored April's intelligent side, the one that they constantly like to associate with her character but I feel doesn't always hold up (Not only because a lot of her "character traits" feel reliant on the plot of an episode, making them incredibly inconsistent, but I've always compared April's intelligence level to Leo's rather than Donnie's. You know what I mean?). If April actually has an interest in S.T.E.M. the way the writers like to imply that she does, then this would have been a really good thing for her too ! I honestly don't have much to say aside from this though, because I don't necessarily see a lot of friendship scenarios for April and Donnie-? I know that's kind of sad, but I've personally never envisioned them being super close-? 😭

Raph is my favorite aspect of this entire hypothetical concept though. Not only does it include the satisfaction (For me, yes-) of a character rightfully telling April off for once and April actually having to face the repercussions of something that she's done for an indefinite amount of time, but this also simultaneously feeds into my take that April and Raph should have been a lot closer than they actually were- To talk about this a little better, I'm including some old WIPs of a comic I made exploring this idea (I guess technically I'm still making it-? I haven't worked on it in a while,, 😔) !

I'll do my best to not infodump about the entire story that I envisioned for this comic (Cause it's a lot and this post is already lengthy enough- Lmao), but to provide some context for these specific panels: After Raph explodes on April after finding out what actually transpired during the S2 finale / takes the time to throw in the fact that she's pretty incompetent a majority of the time and it's upsetting the constantly have to clean up after her, April (somewhat understandably) gets in her feelings and it's pretty upset about the situation overall. She ends up running into a conflict with some people by herself in the woods while taking a walk to get some fresh air (It was over a missing mutagen canister and I kind of envisioned these people being similar to "The Finger" from the Bigfoot episode- Like, just weirdos- Lmao), and as you can tell from the comic she pretty much gets her ass handed to her. This is when Raph's words really started to set in for her and she felt honestly disappointed with herself. But instead of kicking her while she's down or fanning the flames, Raph opens up to her instead-

With that little bit of context out of the way, I really love this idea that seeing April like this would result in Raph wanting to open up to her. Why? Because he sees himself in her. Especially right now. Seeing her so frustrated with herself, April wanting to do more than she's physically capable of doing as she is now, feeling weak and helpless ,, He's been there. Many many times. So he starts to empathize with her and his anger simmers a bit.

He opens up about his role in this team, and how a majority of the time he only feels good for punching and hitting people. Like that's all he's capable of. He talks about how he feels so insignificant when the solution isn't hitting people, or even if there is someone to hit that doesn't change anything or resolve the issue. He's not smart like Donnie, he's not warm and compassionate like Mikey, he's not a symbol for people to follow like Leo. In these ways, he understands wanting to do more and being so angry when facing the reality that you can't. Or rather, as you are right now, you can't.

This is more of a personal headcanon for me, but I'd imagine that it took rough a lot of effort and dedication to get the build that he currently has / maintains. I wouldn't be surprised if it took him quite some time to build up that body mass, you know what I mean? So I was also going to reference that at some point in relation to Raph talking about not being where you want to be yet- How for years, he felt so weak compared to Splinter and that upset him,, But it also motivated him to be the person that he currently is + why he takes training more seriously than everybody else. Because he was tired of feeling weak.

This basically segways into Raph helping April with her training during the Farmhouse Arc and this being the most significant way in which they build their new relationship with each other ! He's a little impressed with April's dedication to improving too, which also helps him view April differently / give them something in common. When they return to New York City, I'm sure April would want to feel confident in herself and capable of fixing this mess- Raph getting her there feels like a no brainer to me. I'd also include moments where they're not training and just hanging out regularly during their stay at the Farmhouse ! Something that admittedly would've taken some convincing on April's part, since even though I said Raph's anger simmered, that doesn't mean that it completely vanished right away. But eventually he'd agree to it and slowly let April in again. Maybe not even again though, since they didn't really have a relationship prior to this in my eyes (Nor do they interact a lot canonically as it is-). So this would honestly feel like Raph letting April in for the very first time-! 😭

Also, of course I'm going to be throwing in some hints of 2012 Raphril here and there within this comic- This is me we're talking about- LMAO 💛❤️

I also totally address Donnie's behaviors towards April / his (Most likely unintentional?) misogynistic tendencies. How his coddling of her harms her rather than helps her. His lack of respect for her choices and her autonomy (Specifically referencing, "Within the Woods" where he blatantly acknowledges that April is interested in Casey but instead of respecting that, he feels the need to "prove to her" that she's wrong-?? For not choosing him, basically- 💀). His unhealthy possessives over her as a person. Etc. ! 😔👍

Sorry this was another lengthy yap post-! Basically I agree that April should've had more focus in relation to the S2 finale aftermath like that person was talking about, but I also think the Farmhouse Arc should've better established April's relationships within the group- Idk- ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ Lmao

#april #april oneil #raph #raphael #raphril #S3 farmhouse arc #tmnt #tmnt 2012 #teenage mutant ninja turtles #teenage mutant ninja turtles 2012

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fipindustries · 1 month ago

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could you share more details about your transfem riddler headcanon? 👀

oughhh but if i do that id be spoiling the fic i have in my head that i will never wrote because im too lazy!

Fine, you persuaded me.

(also, congrats, you made me write a whole ass wall of text. This git out of habd and ended uo being way way way bigger than i intended tl;dr estrogen would have saved her)

Basically my thought was eddie ends back in arkham, as usual, but this time there is a clerical error while he is being processed. For some reason he was assigned a cell on the female wing of the asylum. And because of institutional inertia and ridiculous draconian rules established by hugo strange he gets sent there

At first this is all horribly humilliating for someone with ed's ego. for a single solitary second he gets the impression that he might actually be fine and really why should hebe scared? "after all they are only women" but then he comes across sofia falcone who does not take kindly to a man being there and and he gets his shit kicked in day one.

as he licks his wounds back in his cell he gets a visit from two unexpected friends

echo and query

did you know riddler has two female henchpeople?

i always found this fascinating, in this story i would try to explore how this came to be, why would two musclebound bombshells waste their time working for a guy like nygma?

the main reason is thus (warning, giant fucking tangent here):

riddler, all things considered, is actually a pretty good guy to hench for. he pays well, he's organized and while he is a bit nutzo he is not a fucking maniac like joker or scarecrow, he is not as unstable as two face, he is not a fucking creep like mad hatter, scarface doesnt hire women, and he doesnt have rumours of sexually harrasing the women that work for him like the penguin does, and he actually pulls big spectacular attacks that actually dont involve that big a body count. in fact in my version the riddler generally doesnt kill people. oh he will endanger people, no doubt and there are probably one or two deaths that can be pinned on him, but overall he probably has the lowest bodycount of all the villains (which he sees as a point of pride, after all his challenges are meant to be intellectual, not stupid gorefests like whatever the joker does)

if you are a thrill seeker that wants to strike it big in gotham's crime world and you have a penchant for spectacle eddie is probably your safest bet.

but also, after they were hired by the guy and got to know him they actually grew fond of him. to him they are not goons, they are not mooks, they are not just bodies that you can just pile in front of batman, he treats them as proper Henchladies, his left and right hand. (the way he thinks about this is that while his mind is unrivaled you do have to fire the ocassional bullet to make people obey you and they are good at that so it makes sense to keep them close, deep down he knows he wouldnt get very far without their help). and also there is something about this pathetic incely dude that is kind of endearing. on some level they think his silly ego filled rants are kind of adorable/amusing. and he is fun to follow around. and again, he pays really good (for him is not about the money so he is happy to give most of it to them)

So anyway, back on topic, they see him there all beaten up and theybare like "aw what happened boss?" "Did that wop cunt did this to youse?" "Dont worry boss, we'll do as we always do, well take care of youse"

after that eddie more or less manages in the female wing.

maybe there is a little arc where echo and query start shit with falcone, which was probably a bad idea because she has some other girls from the falcone family with her, so it starts a bit of a gang war. eddie has to use his smarts plus echo and querys connections to figure this one out. lots of plotting and drama that im going to skip, eventually it gets resolved by eddie figuring out a clever way to get falcone out of arkham by playing some 4d chess with the paperwork.

after the fact, when he is gloating about how brilliant his plan was and how neatly it all got solved his henches ask him "yo boss, if you could doctor papers and whatnot, how come you didnt just release yourself?" "or, you know, at least put yourself back on the men's wing?"

to this eddie just stops and fumbles for an explination not quite knowing what to say or why he didnt think of that.

and that would be kind of the first arc of the story.

***

so, second arc. after this things more or less settle, eddie and his hench fall into a sort of routine. he starts to actually get used to being in the female wing, he even strikes conversation and makes friends with some of the inmates there. particularly baby doll, who is kind of an old broadway diva/opera prima donna trapped in the body of a little girl "i was rather fond of your show you know" "oh really? how very nostalgic of you"

and then echo and query notice something. the boss seems to be... chill? friendly even? what is going on. they know they guy. he is insufferable with other people, he is always playing stupid power games wth everyone, always trying to assert his intellect over others. he is the kind of guy that if you ask him to pass the salt he says "you mean the sodium chloride???"

but now he is relaxed, he is acting almost normal. they ask him why and he cant quite answer. at first he tries to play it off with a little misoginy routine "well what do i have to prove to these ladies? im not going to be intimidated by them, they're only girls" but then echo asks (after smacking him over the head) "so youre saying you do your mastermind number because you're intimidated by men?"

which cuts to the very heart of his insecurities so he starts trying to rationalize this, the problem is that he is genuenly a smart guy and he is someone who does genuenly care about understanding things so he cant keep himself from asking himself the right questions over and over. "well, of course im intimidated by them, they always kept bullying me and hitting me and treating me like shit those knuckle dragging meatheads, and why did they do that? well i guess i was never that manly in the first place, i didnt care about sports, i didnt care about big cars or guns or chicks, so they would keep picking on me. but who cares! i didnt need to be manly, it never mattered to me, all that mattered were my intellectual pursuits, dad kept saying 'be a man' but who cares about being a man!"

"uhhh... you dont?"

"that's right! i dont!"

and then he shuts up in stunned silence trying to process what the hell he just said.

soon after he gets a call to dr. hugo strange's office.

now, dr strange is a weirdo. he never rises to full supervillain status but he is always there doing creppy shit, carrying fucked up 70's psychology experiments on his inmates and generally obsessed with batman.

this is when hugo confesses he is the one that put eddie on the female ward. why? oh you know, the usual mad scientist reasons. but also because there is something he wants out of eddie. see, he gave eddie a taste of hell and humilliation and he can free him from it too if he wants. and all he needs in exchange is a little help "you see, mr nygma, a man of your vast intellect would be priceless on my little endeavor, and i know you are the only man (nygma flinches) who can help me do this"

"do what"

"figure out the true identity of the batman"

so that is the deal. eddie has access to the vast registers of the arkham archives regarding the batman that hugo hmself compiled through the years. using that eddie has to come up with some plan that forces batman to reveal his identity to hugo and noone but hugo.

eddie has no idea what to do. he just got the double whammy of having a minor gender crisis and also, this creep is asking him to unmask the batman. but like, that doesnt count, right? riddler always wanted to best batman, and maybe unmasking him was a form of that but it had to be his own plan that he carried on his own, not at hugo strange's command. and also the doctor said he was going to release him. does he even want to be released? he is not entirely unaware. he can tell he is doing better, his weird mental compulsion of always turing everything into a riddle or a debate or a contest has gone down, for once in his life he is making friends, he is getting along, he feels... comfortable? is that the word???

so eddie does as he always does. he hatches up a plan.

he pretends to play along with hugo while using his newfound access to the arkham archives to find shit on hugo himself. sadly many of the archives are redacted or downright missing. but there is one arkham doctor he can go to and ask about those missing files.

dr harleen quinzel PhD.

now the thing you have to understand about this verion of harley is that she is still a couple of years away from leaving the joker, so she is still in her full infatuated maniac phase. which means that everyone fucking hates her. because everyone, and i do mean everyone at arkham, fucking hates the joker.

so she is not very popular, she stays isolated, very rarely she is allowed to be near the general population and the only reason why she is still alive and hasnt been shanked a thousand times is because she is good at defending herself and also she had ivy's protection.

so eddie has to go talk to quinn.

"heya eddie!"

"hello dr quinzell, i, uh, i have a request"

"oh, of coise you have a request, eddie, i knew you would come to me soon or later"

"you... you did?"

"i saw your games with big miss gigante and your chats with dolly, you were always going to come, soon or later, the only question was how soon or how later, before or after?"

"whatever i dont have time for your games, i need access to some files and i suspect you might know about them"

"sure! ill help ya! strange is a bigg creep anyway, i always hated him, ever since he taughte me in college i did, but i need you to answer me something eddie"

" sigh, what is it quinn?"

"well, what i asked! is it going to be soon or later? are you faster or slower?"

"faster or slower than what?"

"come on eddie! is not that hard! i know youre brave, you are not a coward! so you need to let me know, are you faster... or slower than the coward?"

after this eddie just leaves confused, when he meets again with echo and query they ask "so boss? how did it went with the psycho bitch?"

"im not sure, she gave me the files and then she gave me a riddle"

"oh thats rich of her, what was it?"

"it wasnt hard at all really, she asked wether i am faster or slower than a coward, another words for coward is chicken, she was asking if i came after or before the chicken, what i cant wrap my head around is... why the hell would she call me an 'egg'?"

long story short, he subverts hugo's plan against him, turns out eddie discovered hugo was responsible for turning arkham into a revolving door. he kept deliberatly releasing villains at strategic times because he was running weird large scale psychological experiments in all of gotham, to stuy how the villains would act and how the populations would react to it.

so eddie made things such that instead of revealing batman's identity batman is in the right place and right time to discover this, hugo gets caught and disgraced and eddie gets the credit for doing that.

batman gives a single nod of acknledgement to the riddler "thank you mister nygma, i wouldnt have figured that out myself" ths leaves the riddler absolutely speechless.

riddler's sentence gets severely shortened for his services to the city, he is going to get out in a month. and before he can even finish processing this he gets hit by another revelation.

since hugo is no longer in charge of arkham the record ha been set straight. eddie is going back to the male ward.

here ends the second arc

***

third arc. eddie is locked in his new cell having non stop panic attacks.

what is happening, what is wrong with him? what is up, what is down? who even is he anymore?

he refused to escape arkham, he did a "good" thing, he helped the fucking batman and batman recognized him as an intellectual superior????

like what is next, what does he do now, what does he even have going on for him? what is his purpose in life anymore? and why does he want to desperatly go back to the women's ward, why did he feel so comfortable there? why the fuck did harley quinn called him a fucking egg?????

for once eddie is the one beleaguered by riddles he cannot answer.

thank god the joker is not here right now, he is at blackgate waiting for his quintuple death sentence, but everyone else is here pretty much. harvey, viktor, oswald, william, even fucking zsasz is here. and they all think its so fucking funny that he was in the women's ward.

we see a montage of him getting bullied or mocked by the other interns by the other interns, and eddie is just so confused and out of it and defeated that he doesnt even fight back.

we see eddie cry himself to sleep every night. he doesnt have anything, he is at his lowest point. so one day he makes a drastic choice.

he goes to one specific cell where one specific inmate is sitting, reading a book. dr jonathan crane.

and now with your permission im going to just write verbattim the dialog i had planned for this scene:

the riddler is like "look i know you are an expert chemist and what not, i need you to cook me something"

when crane asks what would that be eddie says that he wants something to kill himself.

dr crane takes off his glasses and walks around eddie. and he says

"you know something interesting? you were always my favourite mr edward, out of all the other patients in here, you were always the best"

"i dont care"

"let me finish, you wanna know why? because out of all other emotionally disregulated patients here, you are the only one who ever truly fears"

"you wanna know something interesting? i think its pretty funny that frank herbert said fear is the mind killer and you cloth yourself as the one character from frank l baum that is brainless, that is pretty apt, now give me what i want"

"see that is exactly what i mean mr edward! you could have said dune or the wizard of oz, but no, you had to make it a little harder to get, you needed to say the authors just to show how smart you are, that is what im talking about, your insecurity, the greatest fear of all, the fear of the self"

"here is another one, i find it weird that when freud engages with oedipus rex they dont focus on the riddle but in the incest, really says something about psychologist, give me the fucking drug"

"and why so insecure mr edward? could it be becase you never had muscles, or speed or charisma or good looks? could it be that you cling onto your mind because everything else about you failed you, betrayed by your genetics, betrayes by your peers, betrayed by your very own body?"

"what are you even insinuating?"

"see ive been talking with dr quinn, we doctors tend to be a cliqueish lot, and she had some very interesting observations about you, mr edward"

"what? the egg riddle?"

"yes! egg! what a great turn of phrase! let me tell you something about language, we have so many different words for so many different kinds of fear, talassophobia, fear of the depths, agoraphobia, fear of the outside, acrophobia, fear of heights. now there is a very interesting kind of phobia that people debate about, xenophobia, fear of the foreign, fear of the outsider, of the strange, of those who are different, now many argue that this is not a real fear, it is merely an expression of disgust, hatred. but let me tell you mr edward, as the foremost expert on fear in this world, all hatred stems from it. it is fear of the unknown, of the degenerate, fear of corruption, of contamination"

"ok im done here"

as riddler tries to walk out crane grabs him by the neck and slams him against a wall

"that little reference of yours at the beggining, the lethany of fear, you think i disagree with it? that is the whole point of my career. i am a man who believes that fear is a thing to be conquered, fear is a thing to be mastered, that is how we become our greater selves, but first it must be faced, head on, no masks, no defense mechanisms, and you mr edward, are due for a dosis"

crane lets go of eddie and pulls from his pocket a tiny green pill.

"i managed to smuggle this from my lab and ive been saving it for a rainy day, i think right now it would benefit you most of all"

"what is that?"

"oh, you know what i trade on, mr edward, this is my classic formula, it will make you face this thing you dare not confront, you say you want to get rid of yourself? this will help you get rid of your Self"

then crane walks off and as he walks off he adds "but i dont know what might come out in its place"

eddie is left with that tiny pill in his hand. not knowing what to do.

later that night, alone in his cell, he chooses to take it.

in here we would have a full on psychodelic break, lots of surreal imagery, lots of twin peaks tier stuff which would all ammount to eddie finally confronting their dysphoria and their gender identity. this is a great moment of powerful catharsis and revelation.

next morning eddie wakes up. but she is no longer eddie.

we smash cut to one month later, the riddler is being released. we see the whole process where she goes through the processing and the paperwork although we never see her face. her narration explains that she just had to endure one more month and that thank god harley was willing to talk to pamela to get her a special little brew to kickstart her transition in secret. she walks out of arkham as a free woman

a couple of months after that query and echo get a visit at arkham from some lady called "missy terry". When they are at the bullet proof window the hebch ladies look at the woman and ask her who the fuck is she.

And the saldy says "let me answer that query with an echo: what is the other animal that walks in four legs by morning, two legs by noon and three legs by night?"

And the hench ladies widen their eyes and ask in disbelief "boss...?"

"I go by The Sphinx now, lets get you out of here"

and that is my headcanon

#The riddler #Edward nygma #Batman #Dc #Comics #Trans

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belinda-chandra · 2 months ago

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As much as I love Trinity Santos as a character and as much as I love Isa Briones' performance, I do feel like the plot was a little too afraid to touch her, she feels like she begins and ends the season in the same exact way.

Mel, Victoria, Whitaker and even Samira go through a lot of changes throughout the season and their cases seem more like lessons, Santos' cases on the other hand seem more convenient to tell us (not show us) her backstory.

Mel has more experience than the other newbies, so her arc is more about building good workplace relationships and appreciating them and also about realizing that her neurodivergence is an asset in the field and her being a sensitive person is a good thing, those are strengths and not weaknesses as she probably thought or was lead to believe.

Samira also has more experience in the field and is more established in her position so her arc is about how she still has a lot more to learn and while she can be faster, trusting her gut and knowing her limit are her strengths, she also gets told the job shouldn't be her life.

Victoria starts as a genius/prodigy but she quickly realizes that knowledge is not everything in the field, she learns to be less judgemental and to learn to read both the situation and her patients, she slowly gains back her confidence in her abilities and her snapping at that father later gives her the courage to stand up to her mother during a crisis.

Whitaker starts off as someone who is used to being invisible, he's very anxious and lacks confidence but he slowly gains it, realizes that in here he can't fade into the background and even helps his boss out of an emotional breakdown.

Trinity starts the season with overconfidence and ends the season with overconfidence? She does manage to build some good workplace relationships but her overconfidence never gets knocked down a peg. She gets praised for her recklessness multiple times (because she saved lives). Her failures never have any true consequences (because she's new and it happens). She gets "called out" for her colorful language with colorful language. The Langdon situation never backfires on her (not even during a crisis). She never gets her "read the room" moment, snapping at Langdon in the middle of a crisis should have been that moment for her and yet Langdon dismisses her and Ellis just gives her weird looks and asks for the gossip.

She's a great character and I love her but the plot was way too afraid to touch her and she ended up feeling a little underdeveloped even with all the backstory info dump and screentime. This is not a critique on her character is a critique on how her writing was handled.

#the pitt #trinity santos #mel king #samira mohan #victoria javadi #dennis whitaker #frank langdon #parker ellis #isa briones #tv talk

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traincat · 4 months ago

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Hi! I was rereading your fics and noticed that in Sticks and Stones you mentioned referencing Claremont's F4 run. Now it's haunting me because I can't find where their origin is brought up 🥲 So sorry if this has already been asked/answered, but perchance do you remember which issue it was 😅 (if not or even so, do you have any other good F4 origin moments?)

No worries, I've got you. It's a little hard to find if you don't know where to look.

This is a flashback from Fantastic Four v3 (1998) #11-12, which recontextualizes the crash and turns it into a horror story for more than just Ben. Claremont is really interesting as a Fantastic Four writer, and he loves thinking through the implications of Johnny's powers. Here, Johnny absorbed the heat from the shuttle crash, but he can't hold onto it and he goes Nova. The only reason he doesn't kill Reed and Sue accidentally is because Ben shields them with his rocky body. It's a really interesting interpretation because it sets up this dynamic between Ben and Johnny where they can fight with each other because they can't really physically hurt each other unless they're really trying. Ben has a degree of protection against Johnny's flames, and Johnny is fast and fiery. Claremont loves Johnny's powers, though, and he puts a ton of thought into what Johnny can and can't do with them. He also writes a very introspective Johnny. He's one of my top writers of all time for Johnny characterization.

(Just don't go into his run expecting the plot to make sense. It won't. But the characters are fun and the interactions are all really charming. He introduces three new female characters who are all great, too.)

In terms of Johnny's relationship to his powers -- specifically a negative relationship, not just the joy we usually see from him -- I also really recommend the Burn! storyline, which encompasses the first six issues of the Human Torch (2003) miniseries. It's kind of an origin story? It starts before Johnny goes to space with the others and then picks up after the crash, when he returns to high school suddenly not the loser weird kid. Fast forward a few years and his old high school enemy looks him up to ask for his help solving a series of mysterious murders involving the victims being burned alive. Fun stuff, really great ruminations on Johnny, his understanding of fire, and the amount of control he has to exert every day.

(Human Torch #3) You're going to have to put up with a lot of very early 2000s art. It's worth it.

Also not really an origin story but useful in understanding Johnny's origins is the Sue and Johnny power swap arc.

(FF #520) To save Sue's life, Reed swaps her powers with Johnny's, but the timing is pretty bad. Galactus takes Johnny as his herald, while Sue struggles with keeping Johnny's powers under control.

But okay, Fantastic Four origin stories, a crash course. This isn't totally comprehensive, just kind of a collection of my favorites and ones I find interesting.

Fantastic Four (1961) #1: The mother of all origin stories. Pretty one and done. We have to beat the commies to the moon! Cosmic rays! Shuttle crash! We've changed in horrible and fantastic ways! The world will never be the same! It's worth reading if you haven't read it before, but it's no Amazing Fantasy #15.

Byrne's retcon: Byrne doesn't particularly do anything interesting regarding the crash, but it's useful to know the changes he did make to the origin, because they were a point of contention for a long time. In Lee and Kirby's run, Sue and Reed are established as next door neighbors and childhood sweethearts. It's all very sweet. Byrne, though, LOVES an age gap with an older man and a younger woman. This is a theme you'll see repeatedly if you follow his work. Byrne retconned things so Reed first met Sue when he was renting a room at her aunt's house when he was in college and Sue was twelve. It's not great, but it does introduce the concept of Sue and Johnny living with their aunt after their father's incarceration. No run previously had ever mentioned such a thing. While the age gap was both immediately retconned out (Simonson did it as soon as he took the reins, establishing Reed and Sue as college friends, but it didn't stick) and eventually retconned out (Fraction retconned it so that Reed did stay at Aunt Marygay's boarding house but that Sue was over eighteen), the boarding house origin stuck. Not much to do with the actual "getting powers" aspect but interesting in terms of where Sue and Johnny were living when they met Reed and Ben.

Fantastic Four Mythos: Now we're cooking. Mythos is a beautifully illustrated oneshot retelling of how the Fantastic Four gained their powers. It's gorgeous, fun, and emotional. It's probably my second favorite origin story after Claremont's take.

Mythos posits that the emotional state the four were in at the time they were cosmically irradiated is responsible for their powers. Sue was trying to hide, Reed was trying to reach her, Ben was shielding Johnny, and all Johnny could think was that it was hot. It's an interesting interpretation. Sidenote, I'm pretty sure the new Fantastic Four movie is drawing inspiration from Mythos, just based on the visuals.

I love him so much. Idiot baby.

Fantastic Four: First Family: Oh boy where to go with this one. I don't dislike it, and I think it explores the origin in a much more realistic way, but I wouldn't say it's my favorite. First Family is a miniseries that takes a more grounded approach to the origin story. After the crash, the four are imprisoned on a military base as they adjust to their powers.

I think there's a lot of interesting ideas in this version, but I wouldn't really recommend it to any new readers as an origin story. I think it's more of an interesting way to examine things after you're already basically familiar with the FF's early days if you want to see a more grounded take on the origin.

Fantastic Four: Season One: Another miniseries retelling the origins. Is it good? Not particularly. Is it shiny? Yes. Does aged up Johnny work as a pinup model before the accident? Also yes.

It's giving the Chris Pine leather pants desert photoshoot. Again, not my first pick for an origin story by far, but if you want to read some mildly campy nonsense, you could do worse. If you don't want to read it, which is like, probably the smarter idea, please note that Johnny registered the domain name hottieonfire.com and that he's obsessed with the whale from the American Museum of Natural History. Samesies.

Ultimate Fantastic Four #1-5: This feels like the equivalent of going "want to make some bad decisions." Ultimate FF is NOT good. I know I've said that a hundred times. I've also read it a hundred times so who's the idiot now. I do think the origin is an interesting take on things, though, and like First Family it's more grounded in the exploitation of the Fantastic Four by the military. So not good, wouldn't recommend it as baby's first Fantastic Four origin, but not completely not worth reading.

Origin stories I don't recommend:

Fantastic Four v2 (1996): This is when the FF got bubble universed. It's basically a retelling of the early days that doesn't add anything new or interesting.

Fantastic Four: Life Story: Life Story was an interesting experiment. The idea was to have a six issue miniseries where each issue took place during a specific decade -- issue #1 would be the 60s, #2 would be the 70s, etc -- moving the characters through those decades aging in real time and dealing with both the major storylines of those decades as well as the real world events that were happening. Like I said, interesting experiment. The actual comics, though, and I'm counting the Spider-Man one here too, were bad. Like so bad. I'm going to give you the only thing of note in it here and then you don't have to read it. (Don't let this fool you into thinking the rest of the comic is progressive in any way; the writer decided Jewish Ben should say pork was "the food of the Gods" and also that Romani Dr. Doom should put people in concentration camps. Whole yikes.)

(FF Life Story #2) That figure sitting in bed with Johnny sure looks like a guy. Interestingly, for your value of interesting, "perpetual bachelor" Johnny dies in 1986 in issue #4, and issue #5 immediately opens with T'Challa creating a cure for AIDS. Take that one as you will.

One final kind of a rec. This isn't really an origin story for the Fantastic Four as characters, but rather a retrospective meta take on the creation of the Fantastic Four as a series. Fantastic Four: Unstable Molecules is an Eisner winning miniseries dedicated to the fictionalized "real people" who inspired the Fantastic Four, positing that one night at a dinner party on Long Island, two comic book creators encountered a family fight so epic it inspired them to create a comic book. Deeply introspective, it's take on Johnny and the Mole Man (yes really) really shines.

(Unstable Molecules #3) Sorry to turn this into a "Johnny is flaming" discussion once again. It just kind of comes up naturally when you look at his origin stories.

#johnny storm #marvel comics #traincat talks comics #*replies #long post/#this is probably more than you wanted to know sorry!!

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sailorblossoms-rankane · 10 months ago

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Much holds Ranma and Akane back from confessing (even if on some level They Know) but I like how the cheerleading arc spells things out in a way Ranma is somewhat "comfortable" with (making it a challenge and concealing Akane's identity as knowing it's her makes him Combust).

It all starts with Akane's team losing a volleyball match because of the opposing team's cheerleader (Akane's been through considerably worse so I doubt that would have knocked her out, but I like that Ranma will not let her get hurt in any way shape or form on his watch).

Losing like this makes Akane cry out of frustration. Ranma doesn’t know how to comfort her (too many feelings) but seeing Akane’s feelings being hurt is something he can’t let slide. He only knows how to deal with things as fights/challenges... so he turns this into one

The cheerleader "falls for Kuno" (she's too desperate for romance lol) and so she challenges Ranma for him. Ranma doesn't have a single fuck to give until he clocks her as the girl who made Akane cry. this frames their match as one about love (L-O-V-E, if you will)

The cheerleader is doing it all for Kuno, but Ranma is always doing it for Akane. She's the only reason he takes the challenge, but he keeps this to himself, so on the surface, it seems like both "are fighting over Kuno" (sidenote: what the fuck is Kuno’s problem lmfaooo)

Establishing that "to cheer is to love (the one you're cheering for)" but putting Kuno in the middle makes Ranma have zero chance of winning, until Akane figures out it's about her. that a match about love has Ranma fighting for Akane's sake is an obvious declaration of his love

Just like how Ranma can't let Akane's feelings being hurt slide, Akane can't watch Ranma struggle/about to lose without trying to do anything to help him. her joining a match about love is also an obvious declaration of her love. Ranma fights for her sake, Akane has his back

On the surface, giving Ranma an unknown figure he can pretend to love is safe precisely because "there are no feelings attached." But it could be said that making that figure Akane, and having them fight together, makes it a celebration of their love... without the pressure of acknowledging it as such.

To cheer is to love, and while Ranma doesn't get this (refuses to perhaps) it's repetitively stated that you can't fake this stuff. He's correct that they are evenly matched, but unbeknownst to him, it is only because that guy is Akane. It's the only reason they win!

Sidenote: Kuno has given Ranma trouble so it’s notable that when Akane’s identity is separated from her roles as love interest/"normal" girl meant to contrast with the circus, she gets a bit of shine/praise usually reserved for male challengers. Kuno is fighting pissed and for real.

Nothing outside of Ranma’s real fights with other guys are “consistent” or taken seriously so I wouldn’t either. We’re told Akane is slow but she moved so fast here she fucking teleported with a new fit. (Not a manga for the power scaling hoes, I’ll tell you that much)

(If the plot needs it Akane will get it done. If it wants a Romantic Rescue, she won’t) (Note how the tone is different when Ranma fights as a girl. The challenges are deranged, exploratory, and very unserious – I mean, even more than usual. If it's a True Shonen Fight being a girl is a handicap. It is what it is)

“Ranma fights for her sake, Akane has his back,” seems like traditional male/female roles, so it’s interesting to see a reversal. I’d say doing so is saying that Ranma and Akane are equals. They’ll also do/push whatever mold/obstacle needs to be pushed for the other.

These panels really spell out how this arc is meant to "celebrate their love" (without pressure/shaking the status quo plot-wise at that moment). It encapsulates something we see whenever shit hits the fan, potentiated in the final arc: Ranma and Akane make a great team (the Power of Love etc)

Even if Ranma doesn't know that's Akane yet, their usually dynamic is still there, making it feel more authentic

(should have probably been obvious this is Akane at this point lol)

Something that really stands out to me too is that a match explicitly about love has Ranma teaming up with Akane in girl form. Look at Akane's reaction to a girl Ranma embracing her and saying they're in love.

While Akane "sheds her skin" to fight "as a girl" in the final stages, they still do the "romantic rescue" with Ranma as a girl, and the romance of it all is acknowledged as such. Akane revealing her identity also gives weight that "to cheer is to love" for all present

They even do a repeat of the "Ranma throws an 'I love you' to win a match and the gag is he said it to the person he's actually in love with, proceeds to freak out" with girl Ranma for good measure (they do this with him as a boy in the Nabiki as a fianceé arc)

It's not the first time we see romantic tension between them when Ranma is a girl. When she thinks girl Ranma is going to kiss her "we're both girls" is tied with "people are watching (public judgment)" ... Akane Tendo I know what you are

Just look at these reactions. At her excited little face when she hears "Ranma confesses he loves her." She's not any less excited because Ranma is a girl when she hears the confession... it's saying that Akane accepts Ranma just as he is (I know what you are Akane Tendo!!)

Miss cheerleader accepts her defeat because she acknowledges that the teamwork she witnesses between Ranma and Akane as romantic love (and at no point questions that those two are girls. Cheers to that)

At this point, I think Ranma likely knows on some level that he’s in love with her (as opposed to just liking her/finding her cute) (the specific way he denies it being a giveaway too lol) He’s just not ready to admit it and for others to know it.

The vulnerability of others knowing he’s extremely down bad for Akane goes against the manly strength he’s been taught and he doesn’t know how to deal with all the emotions (thanks Genma I guess). And Akane awakens too much.

Also, the arranged marriage means pressure as it makes the stakes of admitting his feelings so much higher... the noisy classmates also add to it, as it means Ranma never has the privacy he needs to process his feelings for her. If he has none at home or a school, where would he?

#ranma saotome #rankane #ranma x akane #akane tendo #ranma 1/2 #ranma ½ #tendo akane

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buddieism · 11 months ago

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tommy's character, bucktommy's inherent flaws, tommy & eddie as mirrors and buddie endgame; a (lengthy) meta analysis

honestly, what's really confirmed my feelings about tommy (and the imminent bucktommy bones -> buddie pipeline) is that there have now been multiple opportunities for the writers to actually make tommy a likeable/serious love interest for buck and they just…haven’t. because while fans are naturally going to overanalyse every little thing, the vast majority of the show's audience are regular viewers who consume the show at face value and don't think twice about it -- so if tommy was intended to be buck's endgame or anything remotely close to it, they'd absolutely want to make the most of his (very limited) screen time to present him in the best light they could. think about karen, the only non-main LI, and how she was introduced to us -- despite hen's cheating, we can see how dedicated karen and hen are to each other and how karen is a complex character in her own right who is immediately easy to root for and love.

comparatively, when we look at tommy's s7 appearances and specifically his interactions with buck, it becomes abundantly clear that there isn't really much depth to their relationship at all. which is fine! it's just... you know. fine. let's get into it.

following the cruise arc, we watch tommy through buck's eyes in 7x04 where he's basically wining and dining eddie -- flying him to vegas, getting them front row tickets to a fight, sparring with him in muay thai, playing pick up basketball with him -- tommy and eddie are so similar (which we'll come back to later), and we even get that line from eddie about how well they "click." as the audience, we are being subconsciously told to align tommy and eddie together -- and furthermore, we are told that tommy can easily make grand gestures when he wants to. now let's compare that to the bucktommy moments of the season.

bucktommy's first date: tommy makes a shady comment that would have outed buck if eddie or marisol caught onto it and then proceeds to abandon him on the sidewalk because he thinks buck isn't "ready" for a relationship with a man

i'll be objective here -- i understand in a show like 911 there's always going to be "unnecessary" relationship conflict for the sake of drama and i can also see how buck trying to play off their date as platonic to eddie might have put a bad taste in tommy's mouth. but we hear from tommy himself that he struggled with being open about his sexuality when he was at the 118 so he could have absolutely extended some sympathy towards buck for not wanting to come out on the spot to his best friend -- especially when tommy fully knows how important of a role eddie plays in buck's life. at the very least, he didn't have to leave buck alone on the curb. this isn't me trying to woobify buck because yeah, he's a grown man, he's fine -- but that doesn't mean it still isn't a bit of an asshole move.

the bachelor party: tommy doesn't dress up for the theme and dismisses buck when he's clearly disappointed about him doing so

tommy showing zero interest for the bachelor party buck planned is practically the writers waving a massive red flag in front of the camera -- him having to leave because he's on call is an understandable 'conflict' plot point but why not have him show up in an 80s themed outfit? it wouldn't have changed anything except that he and buck would have had a positive interaction; buck would have been happy that tommy cared enough to make that small gesture and it could have been a cute way to establish their relationship as one built on mutual effort. (btw, the bucktommy hospital kiss could be seen as a big gesture, sure -- but from a more practical viewpoint knowing how rushed this season had to be, it was also just an easy way for buck to "come out" to the rest of the 118 without having to spend too much episode airtime on it.)

the medal ceremony: tommy says 'enjoy it while it lasts' (which, LOL) and also is not shown reacting to buck receiving his medal. he also has a conversation with henren in a deleted scene.

again, i'm going to try to give tommy the benefit of the doubt -- i'm not saying he has to be sunshine and rainbows all the time and i have no issue with a character having a snarky/sarcastic side. but when his screentime is so minimal, every line of dialogue matters. and it's pretty damning that the writers aren't taking those few chances to give us something to appreciate about him. with buck, tommy makes a dismissive comment for literally zero reason, and with hen and karen, who are rightfully looking out for their friend, tommy refuses to take them seriously at all.

bucktommy's dinner in the finale: buck displays some vulnerability about losing bobby, and tommy... really doesn't seem to care.

honestly i refuse to rewatch this part of the ep because it really icks me out on another level but iirc: buck says he's glad bobby's okay because bobby is like the father he never had -> tommy says "your father's alive" -> something something joke about daddy issues. ignoring #that joke entirely, it's really insane to me that they have tommy even acknowledge the nuclear bomb that is buck's relationship with his parents. yes, we had a bit of a ham-fisted 'redemption arc' in s6 but that doesn't negate the buckley parents being absolutely heinous and the fact that buck verbalises how bobby played the role of the father figure because philip didn't -- all for tommy to basically deny that to his face -- is absurd. tommy has expressed on multiple occasions that he's jealous of the 118 family bond, so this line is just... very interesting to me.

now, let's recap all these events and bring eddie back into the mix!

post-bucktommy's first date, buck is more torn up about the fact that he lied to eddie than the actual date to the point that he has to vent to maddie about it. he then comes out to eddie, who is incredibly supportive (and oliver and ryan make some very curious acting choices indeed). eddie is reiterated as one of buck's most significant relationships.

pre-bachelor party, eddie is the one to suggest he and buck dress in matching (queer-coded) costumes. he then stays by buck's side at the party when everyone else leaves and although we'll never get to see it (tim minear i'm inside your walls👹), they sing an absurdly romantic karaoke song together. eddie is reiterated as one of buck's most significant relationships.

during the medal ceremony, when the camera pans to each member of the 118's love interest/family, it is eddie we are shown smiling at buck, not tommy. this is especially interesting considering we get buck reacting to tommy. i honestly can't get over how a reciprocated tommy reaction would have been an easy yet significant moment to cement bucktommy as a relationship, but they gave us eddie's instead (with chris in the background and marisol conveniently obscured, mind you). eddie is reiterated as one of buck's most significant relationships.

in the final episode, when eddie is experiencing his personal worst nightmare, buck is the one at eddie's side every step of the way. buck talks to christopher, buck reassures eddie (without judgement), and it's made clear that buck will be there for eddie, whatever he needs.

at every possible opportunity, we the audience are being implicitly told that eddie is buck's person. he is his place of support (buck having his more vulnerable coming out scene with eddie rather than his sister); he has buck's back (the bachelor party); he is his family (medal ceremony reaction), and ultimately, this goes both ways (finale).

some other things worth noting: when buck has his coming out scene with maddie, she tells him he's confused about his feelings in a way that seems to indicate she's talking about his feelings towards eddie ("if you there's something you need to tell eddie, you will"). in bobby's conversation with buck in the firehouse, he's verbally supportive of tommy and even asks if buck is going to see him, but buck goes to eddie's house instead. these were deliberate choices made by the writers; eddie has been consistently intertwined in bucktommy's relationship both overtly and subtextually throughout the entirety of s7. and let's not even get into the whole 'evan' thing, because that could be a whole other post in itself.

from the first moment we start to learn about tommy's character (beyond his... coloured past), we find out that he and eddie are practically mirrors. why not make tommy and buck share similar interests? why not give them something to bond over? why present tommy and eddie as almost identical in every way? because tommy is a placeholder for eddie. buck's initial bisexuality journey can't happen with eddie when eddie still hasn't come to terms with his own feelings. so, in the meantime, tommy is the "safe" choice in buck's mind because buck has nothing to lose with tommy whereas he's got everything to lose with eddie. buck can't confront what he truly wants yet because the risk factor is far greater and it's been repeatedly asserted that buck has an issue with people in his life leaving -- he would never do anything to jeopardise his relationship with eddie.

but ultimately (and in my opinion, fairly soon), we are going to get that moment where it "clicks" for buck and he realises that it is eddie he has feelings for. and when that happens, there's basically only one way it can go. we know buck can't keep secrets from eddie; we know eddie is going into s8 feeling "isolated"; we know tim loves making his characters suffer before they can be happy. in my mind, the narrative is going to go something like this: buck feelings realisation -> pining buck era -> eddie healing journey and a reevaluation of what buck means to him -> some insane life-threatening situation that really doubles down on how buck and eddie care more about each other than anyone else because it is 9-1-1 at the end of the day -> love confession induced by their dramatic near-death experience -> #BUDDIE_CANON !

when we factor in how there was a possibility of eddie having the sexuality arc this season instead, how tim has said buddie is one of his favourite dynamics of the show, and how supportive both oliver and ryan are of the ship, i really can't see how everything isn't building to buddie endgame. every other main pairing of the show has had seasons of development, of conflict, of bonding moments. buck and eddie have gone through that with each other time and time over (tsunami/lawsuit/shooting arc etc), which is why every other random love interest that's introduced for either of them falls flat in comparison. they quite literally are exactly what the other person needs; buck wants the stability of a home, a family, and unconditional love; eddie wants someone he can trust, a caretaker for his son but also a partner. buddie is the ship the audience wants to root for, because we know they work! now that we have canonically bisexual buck and eddie finally having to face his complicated feelings about losing shannon, buddie isn't just the logical conclusion -- it's the inevitable one.

#if you made it all the way to the end of this mammoth post... thank you!#very curious to know what u guys think and if u agree/disagree #buddie meta #buddie analysis #buddie #buck x eddie #buddie theory #911 meta #anti bucktommy #<- not like... dramatically. but my stance is pretty clear!#eddie diaz #evan buckley #911 on abc

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velvet4510 · 9 months ago

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What The Sequel(s) to X-Men: Days of Future Past Should Have Looked Like

I haven’t even seen X-Men: Apocalypse or X-Men: Dark Phoenix start to finish but thanks to this app i know practically the entire plots of both films and i’m just so utterly appalled by them. Not just with the way they mess up the timeline (Jean & Scott as teenagers and Warren as a young adult in 1983?? Excuse me?? No way Logan’s time shenanigans altered people’s birth dates, what??) But also with the way they just butcher every character arc - Charles being selfish? Erik settling down with a human instead of continuing to fight for his cause and make up for his 10 years of inactivity? Giving Erik an OC daughter JUST to kill her 2 seconds later rather than focus on his fatherhood story with Peter? Erik and Ororo siding with Apocalypse to destroy the whole world? Hank turning on Charles when he alone stood by Charles post-beach divorce all those years? Raven being ungrateful to Charles for creating a better world for mutants? Trying to convince us that Charles was somehow in love with Moira and Erik was somehow in love with Raven? The X-Men throwing Charles out of his own house?? WHAT IS THIS?????

Frankly I don’t get why the writers tried (and failed) to give us more Jean and Scott and Ororo when we got plenty of them in the other movies and we know thanks to the end of X-Men: Days of Future Past that Charles will still eventually recruit them. Jean and Scott’s very presence at the end of that film shows that the sight of Logan’s memories of Jean’s original fate prompted Charles to NOT repeat his other self’s mistakes and instead use a better approach to help Jean that enabled her to keep the Phoenix under control and not hurt Scott. That’s all we need to know about them in the new timeline. We don’t need to see Charles messing up yet again when it comes to Jean when that ruins a huge layer of the meaning and impact of DOFP’s ending.

James McAvoy himself pointed out how unnecessary it felt to recycle characters from the original trilogy when the X-Men in the comics are full of plenty of other characters that could’ve been introduced in a DOFP sequel instead. He’s absolutely right.

But here’s what I really think: if any sequels to DOFP just HAD to be made, they shouldn’t have tried to stuff in even more characters. If they HAD to include another old character we’d seen before, it should’ve been Kurt Wagner and Kurt Wagner only. Why? Because he’s Raven & Azazel’s son. And this would only add to the parenthood theme already present through Erik & Peter, and Charles & his students; add a new dimension to Raven as a character as we explore how she feels about being a mother, and what happened that caused her to be separated from her child; and add a new dimension to Hank as we explore how he feels about potentially being a parental figure to Kurt as a result of following his heart toward Raven.

The sequel(s) should’ve focused on developing the relationships that actually had been established/hinted at, and those that would naturally branch as a result:

Erik & Peter as father and son

Raven & Kurt as mother and son

Charles’ parental relationship with his young students

Charles & Erik getting back together

Hank & Raven getting back together

Hank dealing with being Kurt’s possible stepfather

Charles & Raven reconciling as siblings once again

Charles & Peter as stepfather and stepson

Charles & Kurt as uncle and nephew

Alex seeing all of this and being reminded of his bad relationship with his own parents that led him to get locked up before Charles and Erik found him, emphasizing Charles’ place in his life as his true “father,” and foreshadowing Scott by revealing he’s not in touch with his family (meaning he doesn’t know he has a much-younger brother)

Erik bonding with Kurt and making Kurt comfortable through being the only other native German speaker in the group

Erik & Hank dealing with their rocky post-DOFP relationship; Hank giving Erik a proper calling out for sending Charles into such a depression for a decade and for trying to kill Raven

Erik bonding with Charles’ other students and slowly realizing there is a place for him at the school

(Logan may or may not work as a character in such a sequel. But whether he has a big or small role, it must be acknowledged that Raven, not Stryker, saved him from the Potomac at the end of DOFP. So now he is on a different path, and is NOT Weapon X. Either he’s still at the mansion or went his own way with the open possibility of returning; I think the latter makes more sense since he’s such a loner and considering he wouldn’t remember the events of DOFP, he’d be pretty overwhelmed. Plus his explained absence would allow space for the film(s) to focus more on the other characters.)

Regardless, any villain(s) of those hypothetical sequels should’ve been the kind of antagonist(s) whose threat inevitably brought those aforementioned characters together and, in the process, fleshed out those relationships.

Also, no stupid 10-year time jumps between every movie. Keep it to 5-7 years after DOFP, at the most.

Think of the emotional impact that would bring:

Charles & Raven dealing with the fact that she chose not to come to him for help when she became pregnant

Hank & Raven discussing Raven’s history with Azazel and both of them admitting they went to great lengths to try to get over each other but nothing worked

Raven exploring motherhood and her feelings about either having abandoned Kurt as a baby or accidentally losing him, and Hank supporting her in this

Erik exploring his newfound fatherhood, and Charles supporting him in this

Peter’s feelings toward his dad for being absent from his life for so long and also for being a terrorist

Kurt’s feelings toward his mom for being absent for so long, and possibly for intentionally leaving him

Peter & Kurt becoming besties and bonding over being super-fast travelers who have spent too many years not knowing one or both parents

Hank wishing things had been different with Raven and that Kurt could’ve been his son and thinking about stepping into a stepfather role for Kurt

Erik & Peter perhaps getting stranded/separated from the rest of the group and forced to bond while trying to find their way back

Erik saving Peter’s life in battle, cementing their new bond

Hank fully embracing his Beast form (mutant and proud) in battle while protecting Raven and Kurt

Raven, Hank & Kurt as a badass blue family

Erik finally deflecting a bullet successfully to save Charles

Charles & Erik fighting side by side once again and realizing they’re better together than apart

Erik & Hank managing to find some common ground as they both have been unexpectedly thrown into fatherhood (see, no need for female fridging!)

Erik coming up with Quicksilver as Peter’s superhero name, at least getting the chance to name his son in this way

Basically the whole group becoming a big family

Perhaps closing with a flash forward a few years: Erik & Raven are now teachers at the school; young Scott arrives at the school and meets Alex for the first time; Charles & Erik hear about young Jean and head out to meet her; Hank & Raven manage to discover Logan’s location and head out to bring him back to the mansion - tying into the finale of DOFP

Those are just a few things that could’ve, and should’ve, been prioritized in a sequel to DOFP.

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quirkwizard · 2 months ago

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Mutant Mayhem: A Critique on the Mutant Sub-Arc

Normally, I start this off with some kind of intro to establish what I'm talking about, but I'm not going to lie: I think this might be the worst thing to come out of the main storyline. This may be a surprise to long-time followers of the blog. My dislike of Stars and Stripes and her arc has been well documented, with me calling it the worst part of MHA. As much as I dislike a lot of elements of the Stars and Stripes Arc, I can at least understand what Hori was going for, and it's pretty easy to ignore in the grand scheme of things. With this? I can't understand this.

So I want to put two disclaimers here. First off, I am not an expert on politics, sociology, or anything related to that in any way. I do not know how the events in the manga reflect real world issues, both in Japan specifically and the world at large. What I am is a writer. I am someone who analyzes stories for fun. This is going to be a critique of how the story handles the plot purely from a writing perspective. It will not be a critique of whether it is realistic or comparable to real world events. I'm sure there are other people far more equipped to handle talking about this.

Second off, for the sake of this, I'm ignoring a lot of the character work with Spinner. I actually think that's some strong stuff here. It just happens to be stuck in the middle of an arc that I don't feel uses that well. I know that isn't nearly as important as the first disclaimer, but I like it a lot and I want to give this arc flowers where I can. So, without further ado, let us get into this.

The Major Players

To be frank, Shoji and Koda feel out of place here. Do not get me wrong. I like them both, Shoji especially, but it does not feel like either of them has any place leading an arc. He's such a background character, even among the ranks of 1-A. And Koda is even worse in terms of relevance. Shoji and Koda don't have any real arcs of their own or connections to Spinner to make this feel warranted, let alone satisfying. At least, not that'd tie them into this part of the story. Koda is a kid who was shy that wanted to find his voice and gain more confidence. Shoji, the leading man of this whole arc has... nothing. He was just a quiet, minimalist who helped out where he could.

On the other end of things, there is Spinner. For the whole of this arc, Spinner is reduced a brainly functional monster. Yeah, that's great for his character, but it hurts the rest of the arc and the point it is trying to make. Because the guy who is supposed to be leading this part of the story has been reduced to a drooling moron who can barely string a sentence together. When he does talk, all he can say is that he doesn't even care what his own allies are doing. It makes it come across that Spinner doesn't have any real place in his own arc. It ends up hurting the manga and the story it is trying to tell by actively robbing the key player of his agency.

And then we have the spider guy. I'm not even going to bother remembering his name. We don't know anything about him or why he's doing this. He's only really here to spout out exposition about the discrimination of the Mutants and what they have gone through. So do we get someone who is passionate about fighting for this cause? No, not really. He makes it clear to the audience that this is not his main goal. All he is there to do to keep the revolution going for the sake of All For One. He's not the kind of figurehead that this arc needs. Someone who can act as the passionate mouthpiece to really push what the Mutants want and need. He just ends up being some other stooge that quickly gets defeated without much thought.

So right off the bat, it doesn't feel like these characters have any strong ties or arcs to work with here. It feels like we're dealing with the leftovers. Like all the other characters were busy somewhere else, but needed something Spinner for his story and to get Kurogiri. Shoji and Koda are the only ones left with any kind of panel time, and now he had to throw some stuff together about how there was all this prejudice against Mutants. Because that is all you have to tie them all them together. Okay, sure, maybe the characters aren't really that good for this kind of story line. But maybe the actual writing and build up to make this part of the story will make this arc feel satisfying, right?

The Setup?

Right off the bat, I don't think that this plot line is that well established. Looking back at the series, what examples do we have of Mutant discrimination within the main manga? Maybe a few small moments. A comment about how big the doors are at UA as opposed to other places. Which can imply that other buildings aren't as accommodating for those, but it's never really explored that much beyond that one comment. Gang Orca is a Mutant and is said to be one of the most villainous-looking heroes. Yet I feel like that's a pretty forgettable fact about how minor of a character he is and how aggressive he tends to act around people. If anything, that feels like a bigger contributor to why people see him as a villain.

A few insults based on how a character looks. Namely, Shoto to the dog Chief of Police, Dabi to Spinner during the car chase to get Overhaul, and Pony to Shoji during the Joint Training Arc. However, none of these are given real focus. They are all either played off like any other insult or even a joke, in the case of Dabi and Spinner. Do you see what I'm getting at? For all the focus it gets as an end-game issue, there really isn't a lot of focus put on it with the story or characters. It's all a bunch of smaller moments. Smaller moments that are few and far between and aren't given any kind of real gravity for when they do happen. There isn't anything that stands out to me that makes me think that Mutants are facing any kind of discrimination in the modern day.

And before any of you say anything, yes, there are more notable examples of problems like this in the Vigilantes spin-off. The most obvious one is Kirihito Kamachi. He has the body of a giant praying mantis. He has difficulty living and interacting with others because of how monstrous he is, such as finding a place that can accommodate him. That is a great exmaple... that is not in the main manga. As good as Vigilantes is, it's still ultimately supplementary material. To me, you shouldn't have to rely on supplementary material to support your main story. Because most people aren't going to be reading it. At least, not many people do from what I have seen. Within the main manga, there are only two major examples I can think of.

The first is the Creature Rejection Clan. A group of people solely dedicated to the exclusion of Mutants on the basis of blood purity. Which certainly sounds bad. The story says they used to be a thing back when the first Quirks came about. Yet they are barely even an organization in the modern times. They are treated instead as a long-dead relic, who are so weak and fractured as to be a joke. The second is the attack on the giant fox woman, which has so many extraneous factors involved that I hesitate to count it. Such as the fact it was done by a bunch of people without any kind of real racial motivation behind it and it was a random attack by scared people during a total societal collapse. So while it was part of the world, it seemed more in the background. Something that happened before with some lingering wounds. A problem with the world that should be dealt with, but not something that is that prevalent.

The Mutant's Madness

We then cut to the current storyline and... we have a horde of thousands upon thousands of Mutants all marching on the hospital with Kurogiri inside of it. All of these Mutants were so disgruntled about the world as is, that they formed a mob of this size. We're told that Spinner was regularly attacked and sprayed with bug spray. We get mentions of these massive hate crimes against Mutants that were never mentioned before. We then get flashbacks to Shoji's history. About how he was beaten and heavily scarred by people that attacked him as child. This is something that happened whenever he interacted with any other people. Hori: Where on Earth did any of this come from?

I want you to think about all the examples I picked out. I did not intentionally cherry-pick those. I tried my best to find all the notable examples of this before the arc. Would any of you assume that would be how Mutants were treated in the setting? I certainly wouldn't. I don't think I'd ever reach the conclusion that the story did. That, not even ten years ago, there were mass killings and public attacks on small children. This took such a drastic turn that I get whiplash just thinking about it. Was this ever implied or set up before? I feel like this kind of violence would have been shown or mentioned until now, but no. This is the first time we've heard about it on this scale.

And introducing a problem this big this late into the story, in the very arc it is relevant in, is sloppy writing to say the least. Realistically, this should be something that affects a large portion of the world and even members of our cast. You would think that if stuff like that was happening, we'd see way more examples of this in the story. Characters like Tokoyami, Sero, Tsuyu, and Mina. All of which could have been used to explore this more, but they have never been mentioned. Could you imagine if we only got passing mentions of what was going on with Himiko? And, outside of her obsession with blood, we never fully understood why she was that way. Only to find out there are thousands of other kids that go through exactly what she did and no one ever talked about it?

And why is that? Why is it never seen or mentioned? Hori tells us it's because the cities aren't as bad. It's out in the country where it's really bad. What?! What kind of explanation is that? Let's ignore the fact that it doesn't make any sense. If you have that kind of acceptable violence even out in the sticks, there would have to be some kind of sign of it in the major cities. The fact of the matter is that this is such a lazy excuse. Geez, Hori, if that was the case, maybe you should have shown us something outside the city then. Maybe then you could have built up this plot point more if you wanted it to be such a major focus of the arc. Why even go to this level of extreme with it? Especially since this level of violence the Mutants undergo suffocates the message so much.

The Mangled Message

My issue with the violence is that it is crippling the narrative the story wants to go for. Having it be this level of violence justifies the Mutants in their revolt. Shoji's whole point is not letting your hatred win and how you need to rise above what people think of you. A good sentiment on paper. If you want to talk about the kind of harm extremists can do to a message and progress as a whole, that is totally fine. Or maybe you could go with how people can be caught up in something that doesn't have their real interests at heart. There are a lot of ways you could go about this kind of message.

But that kind of talk doesn't exactly fly when your lives and wellbeing are in active danger. The Mutants aren't getting side-eyed by some old dude on a porch. They're running from hate mobs out for blood. Hate mobs are so wild and vindictive they will openly attack children on sight with zero moral compunctions about them. Which, yes, is the extreme, but the rest of what we learn doesn't make it seem like it's that far of an extreme. This kind of writing not only makes it jarring with what we have been shown, but it puts the Mutants as a whole in such a terrible position in this world. I can't exactly blame them for fighting back, even if it's aimed in the wrong direction.

When I'm writing this, I keep thinking back to that one line from Shoji. "Spinner, you're about to put us back thirty years." I get what the story is trying to say with that, but it feels so wrong here. Sure Shoji, you can try and be the model citizen that wants to bridge the gap between people. Not stooping to their level and all that. Yet trying to moralize people who feel actively threatened by the world at large doesn't come across the way you think it does. It comes across as tone-deaf and preachy even in the best light. And that's not the kind of thing you want to say about the guy who is supposed to be in the right. It's this weird moralizing that makes this sub-arc so hard to read and enjoy.

What makes it worse is that the crowd feels like such a mindless mob. One that only stopped because they realized they were attacking a hospital. What on Earth did you think you were doing here? Volunteer work? I get that the point is that Shoji's speech and the heroics of everyday people is what stopped them, but come on. It feels like Hori needed to put them in a much worse position morally to make the violence stop. That doesn't really acknowledge the problems that they are going through in a reasonable way. Why not make them stop because they feel like their leader is nothing more than a violent thug? Or the revelation that they are fighting for just to be used by All For One? Not because he cares about them, but because he just wants to build chaos?

This entire issue just feels so bizarre and poorly thought out on so many fronts. It makes me wonder why we're even getting this kind of arc in the first place. On the surface, it fits in with the other villains. Which I get is the point of the villains. They are people with genuine grievances towards society, but go too far with what they will do to get what they want. But at least it felt like the villains were exceptional extremes of the system who were hurting more than they helped. Their issues were a product of the system, but were far more personal. This seems like it's something far more widespread. Something so ingrained in the world that goes beyond any one person. So it feels at odds with how the rest of the villains and issues are set up.

And to be clear: I'm not saying this because I don't think MHA should cover these topics. In a series talking about the issues of society and how people need to work together to make things better, bigotry in any fashion could be something you could easily cover. If anything, I think that MHA Is uniquely suited to talk about this. It's certainly more appropriate to cover it here than other series that try to use its supernatural elements to talk about bigotry. And yes, that includes the X-Men. But to talk about these issues, you need to lay the groundwork. You need to tackle it with some tact. You need to know what you are doing. And Hori clearly doesn't know what he's doing here.

The Rewrite

Now, how would I fix this? This is kind of an awkward position for me to be in. Because I don't think you can fix this arc in and of itself. It's built around a foundation that is shaky at best. I honestly think you'd need a whole other mini-arc just to set this issue up and establish this as an issue for Shoji. At very least, you'd have to put a lot more of a focus on Spinner as a real character. So I think that the best answer is to just rewrite it from scratch.

For starters, you change the people that are attacking the hospital. The horde is not all Mutants. They are instead all followers of the League itself. They are just like Spinner was back when he was following the image of Stain. They are people who think they understand what the League is fighting for or are merely fighting back for their own personal vendettas. They are all people who felt small and hurt. It is effectively an army of Spinners. At least, as he was early on in the manga. And these aren't anywhere near as bad as they are in canon. It can be for whatever ill-thought-out reason there is. Spinner is still leading the charge, still full of Quirks. And while his change in form would tie into his other story, I'm going to try and make it relevant to the rest of the arc.

And you may be wondering how this ties back to Shoji? It doesn't. Again, I like Shoji, but he does not need to play such as a major part of the final arc focused on him. So I suggest we get another student to replace him. Specifically, Iida. Why put Iida here? To be perfectly frank, I think Iida was wasted in this arc. He doesn't have any real ending for the arc we've seen and doesn't add much to the part of the story he is in. All he's used for is a glorified taxi for Shoto to get to his arc. I do have an idea about him and why I am putting him here, but I'd be lying if I said my personal feelings on Iida this arc aren't part of my decisions.

To start things off, I would make it clear that this is one of the last functional hospitals in the country. This place is integral to treating the most seriously injured and sick. Trying to move any of the patients would likely kill them, including Kurogiri. The heroes wouldn't want to use it as a battleground, but feel forced to because such a valuable target is there with Kurogiri. So the heroes organize a force to help defend the hospital, for which Iida volunteers. And when asked about it, Iida says he wants to protect it because it's about his brother. Both that is what Tensei would do and all he can think about is his brother laying in that same hospital.

And this is where their dynamic would come in. Spinner and Iida are comparable in how they both looked up to a person in their life and how much that warped their perspective. After encountering Stain, both of them changed. Iida strived more to emulate and honor his brother rather than idolize him. He wanted to be the one to build up the rest of his classmates and become a proper hero that can save people. Spinner went from being a fanboy to an idol himself, but a false one. He got the power he wanted, but an empty in the process, with everyone else ascribing things to his actions rather than having any real will of his own.

I'm doing this because, in a series all about inherited wills and legacy, I think that you could do something focusing on inheriting the wrong ideas from someone. That is brought up a few times throughout the series, but I think that some part of the finale could focus on it. It's how your actions have meaning and those actions can spread out to people who look up to you and trust you. These are the roles that Iida and Spinner fulfill. It ties back to what the Mutant Sub-Arc was trying to bring up about how this group of people is being used and radicalized for All For One's cause and not their own, but in a way that doesn't tie it to all the baggage of discrimination and bigotry.

Iida can talk about how the crowd is misguided. That the League and All For One aren't on their side. Nobody in the crowd cares though. They rather shout about their grievances. About why they are fighting this war in the first place. They all look up to Stain and Spinner as their revolutionaries. They all turned to Spinner looking for his wise words. This is the part where he says he doesn't care. He can give a similar speech as he did in canon, but it can be more to emphasize his own past as opposed to Iida. How Iida is where he is, because he was born lucky with a wealthy family and a strong Quirk. I think that this would be a lot more personal to Spinner. His whole perspective and life has changed so much that Stain, the man that inspired him, is barely even an afterthought.

This would be encouraged by a man on a roof seeing it all: Trumpet. Now, I am replacing the spider guy with Trumpet for a few reasons. One is that he's already an established character, and he already has ties to Spinner. Second is that his power of "Incite" could do a lot to explain how the crowd is fighting so well. Finally, I think that it could reflect how All For One is using these people. They aren't here to lead a revolution, but to cause chaos. And I think that works better with a figure like Trumpet. The second a new regime seems to be rolling in, he immediately switches sides to working with All For One. He isn't as staunch MLA follower as people thought he was and merely attached himself to it because it was a means of power. It feels more fitting for someone like him to talk about how he doesn't really believe in this kind of stuff than someone who should be affected by the issue they are fighting for.

So the battle rages on between the two groups. You could also throw in some of the students to help fight with Iida. To me, you could put any of the other students here if you want. Maybe you could have some moment for Jiro or Koda here. They'd be able to use the power of their Quirks to help drown out Trumpet and all of his rhetoric. Maybe you could have people like Sero and Ojiro work as the counterpoint. They don't have great Quirks, but they were still able to make it into the Heroics Course in spite of that fact. Their roles don't matter as much to me as the main conflict between Spinner and Iida. Iida tries to fight back as hard as he can, but, ironically, Spinner's ability to jump and climb between walls makes it hard for Iida to attack him.

That is when the crowd starts closing. The doctors are doing their stand to make sure no one can get in and hurt the patients. This makes the crowd hesitate some. At that moment, Iida gets an order. To stop the crowd no matter what it takes and save the doctors. Even if it means he has to kill Spinner. Everyone thinks that Iida is going to violently charge at and destroy the crowd. But no. Iida doesn't do that. Instead, he uses his immense speed to rescue everyone in the hospital. He is going at such high speeds that he is able to save everyone before they can die and move them to another location away from the fighting. All except Kurogiri, who is under such heavy defense that Iida could not reach him. Everyone is shocked and amazed at this, including Iida, who never thought he'd be able to pull off such a move.

After it's all done, Iida is spent. He used Recipro Burst too much and is now unable to move. Yet he still stands, begging the crowd to not attack the hospital. This is where Iida's arc ends. He gets to be a true hero, focusing on saving others rather than trying to hurt them, and making another speech to stop a raging crowd. The doctors can be out there as well, as I do think that bit is important to the greater themes of the series. And it does work for a moment. Spinner does not care though. He still moves forward. And then suddenly stops in his tracks. Only to reveal Stain had used "Bloodcurdle" on him, leaping from on high to stop the assault on the hospital.

Yeah, I'm throwing Stain in here too. I've always disliked how Stain's death was handled. I don't mind him dying, just how it was done. Not only did it feel totally pointless, barely adding anything to the final fight with All For One, it felt so inconclusive to his character. There's more that could be done. We have already got the conclusion to All Might and Stain's connections at the statue, so having him die with Toshonori doesn't really fit. To me, Iida and Spinner have some of the strongest connections to Stain. Because they were the ones who were most changed by interacting with him and his legacy as a villain. So I believe that adding him here will add more to the arc and his own character.

This is a point where Stain takes Spinner to task about everything he's done so far. About how this was not his dream and not his goal. That was to flush out all the fake heroes. Not to hurt people who "didn't deserve it". By killing Iida and attacking his hospital, they are all corrupting his mission. This really puts a stop to the crowd. This is their idol, the one who started their revolution. And now he's talking about how their work makes them sick. So now he stands against them. To protect Iida and the hospital. You could even call back to his infamous speech, a dreadful aura falling over the whole Quirk. Yet Spinner starts to move again much sooner, either from losing so much blood from "Scalemail" or having a Type-O blood type, and the Quirk stops affecting him.

He charges up to Iida, ready to cleave him in half. Only for Stain to block the attack to save Iida, dying in the process as his body gets stuck on Spinner's weapon. Only to be tossed aside without a care as Spinner makes his way to the hospital. In this way, it acknowledges the growth of Iida into a "true hero" in the eyes of Stain. It's between these three elements that the crowd stops. The heroic moment of Iida, the death of Stain, and the obvious indifference of Spinner are all what led to them realizing that this cause may not be worth fighting for and stopping the charge. I think that would be a lot more point of a moment. Because now we get the culmination of Iida's character, the ironic death of a major villain, and the final tragic note of Spinner as a character.

And I think having it be this way could make it more fitting for where the two end up. We see Iida start to work closely with Uraraka when helping out the children. Maybe Iida could be working with other kids that are in trouble. He can be the guy who is trying to help out his community and lead like example. Just like what his brother was doing before him. Meanwhile, it could help recontextualize Spinner's ending. I've already talked about this in my rewrite of the ending before, but I think this could add a nice way to present Spinner's book. That he wants to tell the truth of the League and have them be remembered, but not in a way that will radicalize people like him in the future.

Now, is this a deviation from the main story and what this sub-arc was going for? Yeah, but I don't think that you are losing much by changing the players and context. Here, you can still have the misguided rioters that have close ties to Spinner, but without a lot of the sloppy writing surrounding the Mutant storyline. It also can give more meat to two major characters that felt shafted by the final storyline. Iida get's recognized as a true hero, finally living up goal he had since he fought Stain. Stain himself dies an ironic, but fitting death. He dies at the hands of a follower who idolized him, but did so saving a kid he said was a false hero. Overall, I believe this does more justice to the characters and the story.

#My Hero Academia #Not Quirks #Shuichi Iguchi #Spinner #Tenya IIda #Akaguro Chizome #Stain #Mezo Shoji #Koda Koji #MHA Meta #MHA Theory

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