#with that all said - I can see her having a corruption arc and I think that'd be fun to explore heh

[moonsglare]

kpop demon hunters was peak and although as a hobbyist writer i did find some parts and choices strange overall it was truly a breath of fresh air in animation’s current climate and i’d highly recommend it! will also be thinking abt kpop aus now btw.

[disillusionedjudge]

{Hero Archetypes: The More... something version}

The Fallen Hero You are the Fallen Hero, a tragic embodiment of betrayal, vengeance, or perhaps a heart-wrenching love story turned awry. Whether exposed to corrupting influences, manipulated by deal-makers, brainwashed, extorted, blackmailed, or witnessing the destruction of sacred bonds, your descent into darkness is marked by profound sorrow and loss. You might have turned for the sake of greed. Yet within, a lingering spark of hope remains, compelling you to reluctantly extend assistance to the newcomers. Motivated by the sincere desire to shield them from the same tragic fate you endured, you find yourself driven to guide and protect, despite the shadows of your own past.

tagged by: @tarnishedxknight tagging: anyone!!

[hexhomos]

I love Mel through and through but I cannot find it in myself to say that her and Jayce should’ve continued romantically in season 2, or that meljayvik/melvik could ever work.

While she def did love Jayce in season 1 she did use him and viktor for political and financial gain. And her and viktor always hated each other (also viktors 100% a gay man)

Also I think even tho canonically labels and homophobia don’t exist in arcane it was def some form of heteronormativity that caused jaymel maybe like…. Classism or smth…. Idk 🙏

Mel and sevika is my favorite Mel ship because Mel should be with someone who won’t fold as easily as Jayce 😇

imho jayce/mel was always a relationship of convenience with a very clear economical stipulation of success that is planted all throughout s1 act 2 (mel literally walking out on jayce when he doesnt present his new gizmos on progress day bc she had already promised them to investors. lol. later on pressuring him to do a whole round of black market shakehands under HER inherited opera house which is used as a meeting point between all the corrupt topside politicians. do i even need to expand.) and its only made worse when the phony-ruler training stuff comes in and both ambessa and mel start competing to see who can manipulate jayce into making weapons for the empire faster. I've always said that storyline was inconsistent as fuck and it does a lot of flip flopping near the end of s1 (do you want weapons or not? it changes every scene.) but at least people cant call me crazy anymore bc they WERE grooming jayce into being the pliant triggerfinger figurehead and once that fails all the attention is shifted onto caitlyn, who's just so ready to fall for the bait.

Like this is why jayce brings up the investment stuff during the breakup scene. this is why mel is fighting with caitlyn against her mother at the end of the series as a complete reversal of her goals. This was supposed to be a Thing. Character development for this bit in specific was RUSHED AS FUCK since they wanted to put all of the political tidbits as far away from the core plot as possible but its still there when you look. The ''empathetic'' political stringpulling ambessa does with cait is one she has taught her daughter, and she perpetuates with jayce, who is ofc upset at all the bullshit when he realizes what's happened in the end. And that it didn't just impact him, but also viktor and the cities at large!

clean break was actually the best thing they could have done with both of these characters and for a second I didn't believe they'd HAVE the balls to do it, but I'm happy to be proven wrong lmfao! if jayvikmel has no haters im dead. I'm not even getting into that whole thing but it bothers me *so deeply* to see viktor defanged and made into a fogbrained centrist yes-man when his entire arc is about the fatal consequences generations of these rich oligarch games have had on the low class people of the undercity. One of the only scenes of him raging in the entire show is him showing his disgust for mel's weapon proposition, and we just forget that happened? nuh uh. not on my watch

[destinysbounty]

I think I wouldn't mind Zane's NPC-ification quite as much as I do, if it didn't feel like they were also retconning the fact that he was ever a person to begin with.

Like, sure, I totally understand. Dragons Rising has a huge ensemble cast, and the RGB trio + new ninja are the clear focus. And I don't mind that! Everyone who does get proper narrative attention is written so wonderfully and I adore what we have. But...sometimes it feels like they're just kinda divvying up everything that makes Zane who he is and giving it to everyone else, and never even briefly acknowledging Zane's ties to those traits.

Remember when Zane used to have prophetic dreams foretelling future events? Me neither. Hey Lloyd, how are your visions coming along?

Or, y'know how one of Zane's most integral plot lines, character details, and motifs is his struggles with memory and identity? Remember that time he got amnesia and was then both manipulated and magically corrupted into being a villain? Nah that never happened, anyway check out what Jay is up to now

Or, does anyone recall how Zane is a canonically really good cook with pies so delicious they made Jay cry on screen? No that's Arin's thing, actually

Heck, we even have our quota of ~Silly Robot Beep Boop Bop~ jokes fulfilled by Lobbo!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on any of the other characters for having these traits. Nor am I arguing that Zane should have a singular monopoly on these types of storylines. But when they take traits that have for so long been primarily associated with Zane, like cooking and visions and amnesia, and share them with someone else without even briefly acknowledging Zane's prior involvement...idk. It just feels like they're trying to repackage all the things that make Zane interesting while still writing him out of the narrative. It feels like they're going "whaat? Zane, have personality outside of being a generic robot character?? That never happened!" Like they're just trying to have their nindroid and kill him too.

And I mean, to some extent I can understand their hesitation. It's the same reason the Mr. E/Echo reveal got scrapped in s8 - theres just way too much going on right now, and the narrative load required to explain somwthing this complicated during a reboot/sequel would just bog down an already very complicated story. Zane has a very convoluted backstory that, for new fans dropping in to the sequel series for the first time, may be difficult to explain. How do you recap Zane's history with amnesia in a neat an tidy way for the next gen story, when there's already so much going on?

Like i said, i get that. But they could at least make, like, brief blink-and-youll-miss-it allusions, yknow? Like how they played the Ice Emperor theme during Zane's existential crisis during drs1, or when Zane told Zanth not to follow dancing birds in drs3. Tasteful, subtle, doesn't require much insider knowledge and newer fans could easily interpret it as a noodle incident comment without losing out on their comprehension.

Maybe after Jay gets eliminated from the Tournament, Zane offers to go after him saying, "I've lost myself once or twice before. If anyone understands what he's going through, it's me." And if you want to preserve the plot unobstructed, maybe you can have it so that either Zane fails to get through to Jay or Jay is gone without a trace before he can get to him. Maybe there's a brief scene of Zane making a pie to try and cheer Sora up, but she can't eat it because it reminds her too much of Arin. Or maybe Lloyd has a panic attack over his visions and Zane is the one to offer him the advice about not fighting the vision and letting it come naturally.

Don't you see how easy that is? You would change literally nothing about the story at large, and you're not detracting from the main plotlines or character arcs that are quite validly dominating this series. But you're also throwing a bone to the people who actually like Zane. Like???? I'm not even asking for much here, man :/

Idk. Maybe I'm just bitter and need to touch grass, who's to say

[alicentsgf]

The snap bracelet that strangles Shauna is representative of jackie's necklace, I am so sure of this. The necklace reappearing in the same episode as Shaunas vision isnt a coincidence and it all ties back in to the power struggle we can see forming this season.

Lottie's right, the necklace doesnt mean what Shauna thinks. It doesnt mark death, it marks sacrifice and thats not the same. Like yes for Jackie and the girl in the pit that meant a literal sacrifice, dying for the others to live, but not for Nat. For Nat being given that necklace meant living to lead them into the little golden age they've been experiencing. Thats why the necklace has belonged primarily to Jackie and Nat, their leaders, even if it spends short periods with others/is placed on sacrfices during a hunt. Because leadership is a sacrifice too. But Shauna doesnt understand that, she never has, its why she doesn't understand the necklaces meaning even now as an adult. (lottie was still wrong to give it to callie but thats another post)

The snap bracelet being Jackies and her being the one to place it around Shauna's neck - just like the necklace. Suffocated still by her jealousy towards Jackie, her desire for that leadership role, for power, just like Jackie said. As an audience we can already see a power struggle bubbling beneath the surface, with Shauna poised to take over from Nat, and in the vision Jackie says 'you want to try?' to the others. I think the implication here is 'you want to try to lead?' It didnt hurt Akilah and only scratched Van, some of the least power hungry. But it almost kills Shauna. Her exercising power over Melissa is just the start. Melissa says it in the trailer, "you feel that? thats fucking power?". This season is Shaunas power and corruption arc. Its going to show us exactly why the others are all so afraid of her.

So what does that say about Callie's part to play in this? Is she marked for death, another type of sacrifice, or for some kind of leadership role? I think that depends on Shauna. Because its Shauna who actually marks people for death. Those the others percieve to have been taken by wilderness, Shauna was the one who decided, willingly or not. She sent Jackie out that door, she told them to wait as Javi drowned, and (if we believe lottie) the wilderness heard Shaunas plea not to die giving birth. but it had to take someone. even as an adult, its shaunas decision to run in the hunt at camp green pine that led to Nats death. Its always been Shauna who actually decides who the wilderness does or doesnt take, she just doesnt realise it.

[hello-nichya-here]

Think I finally managed to understand why Azula not getting a redemption arc works in the show, but not in the comics (beyond the absurd ableism in the Yang stories that is).

Azula has become the classic case of a villain that keeps being brought back due to popularity despite clearly not belonging in the story anymore.

Her arc as a villain was completed in the show. She's been the backstabber, the relentless pursuer, and the cunning villain that wins through mindgames. She's been in charge, been under someone else's rule, joined forces with another villain, and had her enemies join forces against her.

She's been the villain that wins people through manipulation and/or charisma, or that full on threatens them into submission. She had henchmen that she used and threw away, and henchmen she cared about and was abandoned by. She was arrogant and power hungry, but also desperate for validation. She was the main villain's adored, loyal pet that was eventually kicked aside in the end.

She's been the lesser of two evils when compared to Ozai, and the worse of multiple evils when compared to Zuko, Mai and Ty Lee. She's been the villain that gets back up after a defeat post The Drill, the villain that wins (by corrupting one of the potential heroes, capturing a friend of the protagonist and KILLING said protagonist) in the Ba Sing Se arc, the villain that has both a satisfying AND tragic downfall in Boiling Rock and the finale, and the villain with hints of humanity that she refuses to embrace in The Headband, The Beach and the finale.

She had conflicts with people she had zero personal history with (Aang, Long Feng) leading to both physical and mental battles, and people she had a messy history with (her friends and Zuko) leading to super emotional scenes.

And finally, she's been the cold, calculating villain AND the villain that is a complete wreck mentally/emotionally - that last one only lasting for the finale because Azula's breakdown was not the CAUSE of her evil actions, it was the consequence of it. And said consequence made her be both the villain that is defeated by the heroes and the one that causes her own downfall.

Every single fucking thing that could have been done with her as villain has been done in the show already. Even Spirit Temple, the only comic that understood her character, couldn't do much beyond just repeat stuff we're already seen.

Azula refusing to accept anything she considers weakness or imperfection? We've see that in nearly every scene she was in.

Azula leading an evil squad? Literally what she did for 90% of her screentime on the show.

Azula losing said squad and refusing to take responsibility for it? Literally the Mai and Ty Lee arc, hence the two haunting her mind in that same comic. Only this time it happened MUCH faster because Azula no longer has all the political power she once had, so there's less consequences for crossing, so she's not as threatening to ANYONE.

Azula being pathetic and making a fool out of herself? The Beach exists.

Azula being obsessive to the point that it's almost laughable? Again, 90% of her screentime.

Azula having issues with her mom, desperately wanting love from her family, friends and a potential boyfriend? Again, The Beach exists and so does the finale.

The scene of her being confronted with a hallucination of an angry Zuko and shooting lightning at him? Literally a direct reference to the Last Agni Kai, which was the culmination of both of their arcs.

The ONLY thing that was new in that comic was the short moment in which Azula shows resentment towards her father for turning her into a copy of him, and that wasn't explored further not just because it's a stand-alone comic, but also because doing so would open the can of worms that is "Wait, if she's self-aware and processing trauma, that means she could learn her lesson and change" and since the writers clearly don't wanna go there, the scene is useless.

If the writers insist on keeping Azula an active threat in the story, they're setting themselves up for failure. Either they're gonna keep repeating storylines we've already seen with far less tension and with a villain that got a severe downgrade, essentially making Azula the Tom to their Jerry, or they're gonna pull a Yang and go "Make her crazier to make her scary again!" while ignoring that her days as a villain were cut BECAUSE she went insane, and now that here vil plans make no fucking sense anymore, the heroes just look stupid for not being able to defeat her.

Azula has nothing more to give to the story in the role of a villain, so she should either only appear in flashbacks or quick mentions of "she's being cared for, but it seems it's too little too late", or she should be redeemed to get a new role in the story, with new paths to explore. She just can't keep being put into the role of active threat, when we've all seen said threat was clearly neutralized already.

It. Does. Not. Work.

[randomidiocyncrazies]

LH0's Q&A sesh on L0's arc (it's implied he'll do this type of Q&A after the conclusion of every arc)

EDIT: summary below the cut now 👍 please lmk if i got anything wrong etc

So first off, L0's arc is chronologically the last events that happen in this season, so OG Nice absolutely will show up in the later episodes as well. There's mention of OG Nice going berserk/黑化 (corrupted due to (usually) mental anguish) and LH0 is looking forward to when the audience gets to see those scenes. (and uh the off-handed mention of "will L0 also succumb to those pressures/turn to the dark side?" is sllllightly worrying lol)

LH0 also says Nice isn't just a facade/role, but has his own character and story, which reflects the cruelty of the world they're in. It's interesting that he talks about "未來奈斯的命運 the future fate of Nice (or the fate of a future Nice?)" can still be explored, which could mean either OG Nice isn't actually dead, some other schmuck becomes Nice, or just means his story ('fate') is yet to be revealed. I personally think it's 1 or 3 (leaning more towards 3) but who knows. He did kinda put emphasis on "it may be shown later on" so like. take it as you will.

As for L0, LH0 says his story starts off as a typical "wage slave/underappreciated office worker wins prestige and respect" fantasy, but with the end of ep 4 it shows that the world of TBHX can be very harsh and cruel, with hidden conspiracies. As for L0's future development, there's tons of possibility for exploration so I guess we gotta wait and see.

About the pacing, the first 4 eps are deliberately fast, but each hero's arc will have a different rhythm since they have different themes. The Top 10 will also have more of a presence in the others' stories.

LH0 clarified that, although Lu Guang from Link Click and Mo Sha/Ghostblade both have white hair, the two works are independent from one another. I'm pretty sure he just likes white hair character designs (tbhx alone has 4 heroes with white hair within the top 10). He thinks Ghostblade's story will probably take us all by surprise, and he's a little worried about whether people will like it/accept a story like that.

The next question is about whether Nice gets startled by his giant statue in the middle of the night. LH0 intended the statue to be kind of ironic, and confirmed that it's a reminder/symbol for Nice to believe in himself (or like, a reminder of the faith that is put on him as his persona as Nice). As to whether the heroes are more like employees clocking in (打公仔) than heroes, LH0 says each hero has their own ideals, but are also caged by those ideals—the essence of the story is to explore them as people who have faith placed upon them, and how they choose to live their life with those ideals.

Last question reveals that Hero Tower only houses the top 100 heroes, meaning Enlighter was not a resident at rank 249. The lowest floor can fit 2 rooms + 1 living room, so it's decently spacious even for the 100th hero. That said, I personally feel like this makes the competition (especially among the lower ranks) fierce, since they will lose housing if they don't maintain their place. And given how Firm Man was presumably kicked out of the Tower by the end of ep 3, a single shift in perception can cost you your accommodations. (I also kinda assumed family or significant others can move in, since Moon was supposedly living with Nice... we never knew her rankings but ep 2 did say she was not very well-known until her 'relationship' with Nice.)

(this also raises the question of what happens if multiple ranked heroes decide to bunk together/live on the same floor—with how it works I assume that means floors would be empty? for example if no. 25 and no. 46 decided to live together, does that mean one of their floors would stay empty until rankings change?

also nobody knows who X is, so idk if he even lives at the tower...)

[paperpuzzles]

I can’t stop thinking about what Buffy the Vampire Slayer would have been like if season 3 had a Buffy/Faith/Angel love triangle. Not the heteronormative one. The one where Buffy is in love with both Angel and Faith.

Think about it. As Buffy secretly nurses Angel back to health when he comes back from hell, Faith is introduced. Buffy knows her relationship with Angel is doomed/trouble trusting him after what he did to her as Angelus/guilt for killing him. Between helping Angel and her “normal” life, slaying with Faith is ironically the only time she can relax. Faith is newer to the scoobies, so Buffy opens up to her about everything and confides in her. Their bond deepens and feelings develop. They start secretly hooking up during their patrols. At the same time, Angel is getting better and things might be starting to happen between him and Buffy again. Faith finds out and gets understandably upset. Buffy is torn between them, and comes to the painful conclusion that while she loves Angel, their relationship is impossible. She realizes she also loves Faith and wants to see where that goes. But as she’s about to tell Faith she chose her, they are attacked which is what leads to Faith accidentally killing the deputy mayor. Faith’s reaction to killing him alarms Buffy so she pulls away from Faith instead of confessing her feelings. Then Buffy finds out Faith slept with Xander, which hurts and confuses her even more. There would also be a very real and sweet moment where she admits everything to Giles, who validates and supports her as she comes to terms with her bisexuality.

Angel and Buffy grow back together. Faith, in cahoots with the mayor now, is hurt and wants to get back at Buffy. This leads to the episode where Faith tries to get with Angel and Angel pretends to be Angelus to find out what she and the mayor are up to.

In their final fight of the season, Buffy confesses her love to Faith and that she would’ve chosen her over Angel. This catches Faith off guard long enough for Buffy to get the upper hand and tearfully stab her. Thinking she’s killed Faith, Buffy laments that Faith died thinking Buffy only said what she said to throw her off, when Buffy meant every word.

Angel would witness this, which would be part of what triggers him breaking up with Buffy since he wants her to have a real relationship like the one she could’ve had with Faith. In the final battle against the mayor, Buffy says something about the mayor corrupting the girl she loved.

THEN SEASON 4 Faith is EXTRA pissed when she wakes from the coma bc not only did Buffy try to kill her Faith thinks their whole relationship was a lie and ON TOP OF ALL THAT BUFFY HAS A NEW BF and even later Faith and Angel REALLY have to sort thru their personal issues with each other along with Faith’s redemption arc then SEASON 7 Buffy and Faith FINALLY have an honest and heartbreaking conversation about their relationship and their love was real but there’s too much broken trust between them to start back up romantically though they will always love each other WHAT THESE SHOWS COULD HAVE BEEN

[shelleysmary]

okay, but in all seriousness, is elrond being too hard on galadriel? the answer is yes. but he is also much younger than her and i think a lot of us can relate to that feeling of being in our early-to-mid-20s and feeling like "right is here, and wrong is there, and why can't these older people see it." sometimes that kind of clarity is needed. this is why generational friction exists, is natural, is necessary to the movements of society. elrond standing up to galadriel and gil-galad after spending s1 mostly in service to them is refreshing because he's finding his voice, he's owning the fact that he is not content to be a herald writing and delivering speeches for others. he cares and he wants to make a difference and speaking out against the rings has been the catalyst for that. at this point in the story elrond is already so many of the things he goes on to be in the third age. he is loyal. he is perceptive. he is wise. but he also lacks experience. he has never been tempted away from the light - probably ever, certainly not by the great deceiver. so it's easy for him to look at galadriel's folly and say "you should have known better. the darkness corrupted you and you let it happen, in part because you wanted it to happen." which technically is a true statement, but the way it feels to galadriel is much different and much more complex, and it's different to us as well because we've been with her every step of the way. we were also seduced by sauron - we were also deceived. but elrond wasn't there. he knows that sauron manipulated his friend; he doesn't know how deeply that manipulation affected her and affects her still, in no small part because galadriel contains a lot of her grief in order to fulfill her roles of commander and self-appointed bulwark against sauron.

we see her in eps1 and 2 desperately trying to make elrond understand her, but elrond doesn't want to hear it. he is frustrated at not being listened to, disappointed in gil-galad and galadriel's willingness to engage with the rings (which, to him, is equivalent to engaging with sauron, for all that he had no hand in their forging), and i would posit that he is also afraid. for middle-earth. for his friends. for himself. because his clarity of vision is being challenged, the right way is becoming obscured, and the stakes have never been higher.

in time, he will learn how easy it is to fall prey to the darkness and - like miv said in an interview - it will make him kinder. the elrond we know in the third age is devoted to healing, unburdening, and the practice of an extraordinary compassion. but those qualities aren't built-in to anyone, not even the first children of iúvatar, not even elrond. they are hard-won - through mistakes made, failures to act as one should. it's natural that he would hurt people along the way - and he has! see durin in s1! what we do know about elrond in the second age is that he tries his best to do good: to act rightly, to keep his word, to seek counsel when he is unsure of the way, to serve all middle-earth and not just elven-kind, to be true to his friends, honor his family... and he isn't afraid to admit when he's been wrong.

if these first eps are any indication, elrond's arc is going to keep carving him into the elf he later becomes and his relationship with galadriel, after these growing pains, is going to come out even stronger, with the mutual trust and near-telepathic understanding we're used to seeing from them in third age media, and i for one can't wait.

[firefly-suite]

the way 'leola's fall' and 'leola's last wish' are two pieces about the same moment and are so very different

like the absolute contrast between retelling this moment in season six and seven respectively absolutely sends me because not once do we actually see anything from leola's perspective UNTIL her last wish is revealed and then when we do it's beautiful

and you can hear this in the music

so, 'leola's last wish' is, by name, about her last wish

I wish that even in the dark Sad Afraid Alone that every child should know… You Are Loved

and it's this beautiful lyrical melody (that makes me cry every time i listen to it)

this melody is new, we've never heard it before and it's a solo violin with strings because yes, she's alone but she is loved

(begging for arc three because if we don't get a callback to this I will cry - think about the potential, miyana to her children, rayllum with any future kids etc.)

the music reflects her wish, for in the end, her last moments were of her father reaching out to her, of her father who loved her, loves her even, and telling her so

and her, as a child, only wished the same for others

and it is beautiful and so so full of love

and the piece and scene itself is the last of season seven - revealing a secret barely mentioned beforehand, but it's interesting with aaravos' themes of truth and history - that he never had the full truth - as we've spent a season or so discovering his plans and motivations but despite it all, all he has said, truths and half truths are only his. for all he doesn't lie, he doesn't tell, doesn't even know the truth about her and that's what this piece is and it's just so GOOD the way it contrasts to aaravos' perspective and consequent themes

to leola, her death and wish is full of love; in the dark, her dad told her that he loved her and always would

but in 'leola's fall' it's dark and tragic and desperate because no matter what aaravos tries, leola is going to die

this is aaravos' perspective of her death - being punished for helping, for giving magic out of kindness - and when recalling this moment, he can't see past his grief and anger and then his 'wish' is to have the cosmic council and order suffer for his daughter's death

(side note, there is something to be said about how even in this 'court' aaravos doesn't seem to like the council much anyway, and frowns when they mention the cosmic order. also at the start of this scene you can hear bell tones, like in a funeral - leola's death is a tragedy to him, and due to his grief he can't celebrate how she lived and what she did, only mourn her death. what she did - giving magic to humans - only becomes an instrument upon which he can hurt the cosmic order by twisting what she did. corrupt over compromise, indeed.)

so the piece starts; dark, sad and tragic - the strings make me think of funeral music and is reminiscent of 'the last sunset' from season one:

both pieces are string heavy with the cello as the main melody, the cello which is played by three times on screen by corvus - one of those being 'a song of love and loss' - something that could reflect leola's last wish and death

but then around 2.00, you get this shift to something far darker and angrier and at the end of 'leola's fall' you hear aaravos' theme come back - 'i see you' from season two - solidifying this moment as the root of his motivation + plans against the cosmic council and order

this theme is on the piano, almost as a solo part and the instrumentation of this really contrasts the string section from earlier and then again, earlier from 'i see you'

the piece begins with love played by the cello, a tragic love, but love nonetheless. and then at the end when 'i see you' is heard again, this is the loss, now played on the piano

this is furthered later, on the cello this time, when in 'why are you doing this?' the piece that plays when aaravos tells claudia the full truth, remembering again leola's death and expanding on his hate against the cosmic council/order. in this the strings take a backseat on the melodies which are played with other solo instruments and voice, and to me, this shows that like claudia, aaravos insists that he's the same, that he's done all of this for leola and in her name but even when the strings come back, the cello plays the 'i see you' motif and with an even darker tone to it and now his motivations have gone past his love for her and it's now his hate for the council

but back to 'leola's fall',

the piece itself is of aaravos telling claudia about leola in an effort to further her into freeing him, starting with emphasis on how much he loves his daughter but by the end there are hints to something darker, no longer driven by love instead hate, but he doesn't tell claudia this - terry is right, that even in the music it starts off as a story of love and then became one of hate

the piece starts off with love and then by the end we have his solo theme showing him as alone (wHICH i think is really interesting and @raayllum made a really interesting meta yonks ago about tdp's antagonistic isolationism which is the coolest phrase i've ever heard -also this meta is super cool check it out!!)

in the music, we can hear how leola's death is the moment aaravos was left alone to become corrupted by grief and corrupt leola's gift of magic with his own and then twisting it into his mission to destroy/hurt the cosmic council and order

i think its a semi well established fact, or at the very least within the fandom, that leola gives humans primal/deep magic (me personal opinion is that she gives them deep magic and aaravos was developing primal magic idk lol aNYWAY) but aaravos gives them dark magic and then manipulates those mages to him by promising knowledge and wordly things that are pratically child's play to him

this is slightly more plot related than the score but as he says 'it's only fiting that I deliver their fear' - aaravos wants the cosmic order and council to suffer, notably not with the magic they were afraid of, to show to them leola didn't have to die because he could break the order himself

the contrast between the two made me think of that african proverb 'the child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth' and i feel like that's what 'leola's fall' is to 'leola's last wish' which is like the light in the dark

two sides of a coin: the sun-fire if you will

(also similar to stars)

frederik wiedmann when i catch you-

[raayllum]

Lissa as Soren's Shadow Self

Intro

So sometime after S5 I talked about how most of the main cast had a 'shadow self' walking around—another character within the narrative that represents a bad end or dangerous/alternative path they could walk. Callum has Viren, for example, but also Finnegrin (both men are trapped in 5x08, both seek dark magic to free themselves from their perceived captors, albeit for different reasons, etc). Ezran was going to have Harrow's anger and the Orphan Queen; Rayla has Runaan's bow/duty as an assassin, and Kim'Dael, etc.

Someone who has already had a tragedy of some kind befall them versus their present day counterpart who will be twisted into repeating their choices while also, occasionally or ultimately, making better ones.

At the time, it felt like neither Soren nor Terry really had one. Claudia could suffice for both of them, to an extent; Claudia was very much repeating the cycle of use and dark magic and violence of "Viren to Claudia" to "Claudia to Terry and Sir Sparklepuff," with Terry fitting into the spot of who Claudia had been in the past: goofy, loving, non-corrupted. This is, admittedly, made more textual in S7, with Terry able to see the map whereas Claudia no longer can, contrasted parallels of the bird in 2x09 being not the first time Claudia uses someone (that'd be Callum in 2x02/2x03) but the first time she uses someone to get dark magic ingredients and earns her first white streak... vs the birds in 7x04 being what makes Terry realize he is being used, and one of the big things (symbolically) that represents and reinforces his decision to leave.

Soren also had parallels to his sister as a foil—both Viren's children, both manipulated by him, but Soren left whereas Claudia stayed—and to his father, as of arc 2. Both had their physical situations fixed without their input (Claudia healing Soren's paralysis and resurrecting Viren), leaving Claudia confused and frustrated when the situations emotionally changed them. Just as Soren had realized he was on the wrong side in arc 1, Viren was steadily learning that too, although it hadn't quite come to fruition yet.

Terry too, likewise, has very strong textual parallels to Lissa thanks to season 7. Like Lissa, he is used by his partner ("young Terrestrius has what we need" / "I needed her tears. Something so simple and easy") and leaves. In many ways, his dialogue with Claudia directly clarifies / invites insight onto Lissa's feelings ("Because you didn't trust me to make my own choice" -> "she shook her head. She said no"). Claudia most notably even frames their rationale the same way.

I think she had to leave for herself, to be happy somehow. (2x09) But he had to leave. For himself. (7x04)

Within the narrative and Soren's own family dynamic, however, Lissa being Soren's shadow self I think is still the primary usage of the device for each of them, even over Terry and Lissa.

And here's why.

The Semi Obvious

There's the obvious parallels, of course. Soren and Lissa are both blond; they both leave the family, and leave the family specifically with mind to the fact they no longer feel safe.

SOREN: I don't want to do this. (3x07)

This is different as to why Terry leaves. While all three leave to preserve a sense of identity, this motivation is only stated outright for Terry by himself ("[and if I stay] I'm not sure I can really be me anymore / but I love myself the way I am"). For Lissa it's implied, thanks to her parallel to Terry, and for Soren it's symbolic: leave, lest Viren change/turn him into a 'literal monster'. Terry too resists the idea of changing for the worst, but Lissa and Soren frame Viren (their shared 'changer,' whereas Terry has Claudia and Aaravos) in far more critical terms. Whereas Terry believes even after leaving that Claudia can be saved (is still 'good'), Lissa and Soren do not think the same.

SOREN: You've seen what's going on. You saw what Dad turned Kasef into [a monster]. What Dad turned into. (3x07) VIREN: She saw my face and she trembled. She said, "You've become a monster." [after the assault] And I knew she was right. (6x06) SOREN: That's a villain. My dad is a villain. [...] The only way to stop this is to look evil in the face and say no more. (3x08)

This turn from Viren, of course, causes all three to do the same thing: leave, even if that means leaving Claudia, but more on that in a second. First, I want to make a pit stop at what I call

Narrative Weight

Being alive and feeling things are two of the most complex things that can exist, with human existence being just a shit ton to conceptualize even just as individuals, nevermind when it comes to other people or strangers. Therefore, all stories have an aspect of condensation—condensing concepts or feelings into things we can conceptualize and understand within a fictional narrative in order to make it relatable or communicative. We go for personal details and personal relationships.

An example in TDP could be how while Janai and Amaya face a political clash of human-elf cultures in season 4, Rayla and Callum face an interpersonal one. Obviously there are going to be broader cultural differences than just mourning rites, but it's grounded in something familiar and often sacred; likewise, Callum and Rayla figuring out where they fall after that clash split apart their relationship takes centre stage in season four. Both of these couples are made up of individuals, but their relationships symbolize things—a fresh start for the Sunfire elves, the reconciliation of elves and humans and the continent.

Narrative weight.

And Soren carries Lissa's.

This is largely due to how closely interwoven the two become as we get the backstory in season 6. Lissa was violated by Viren in order to save Soren; after she left the family, Viren blamed Soren for it. In many ways, he likely felt like he'd traded her for his son, and found the balance lacking. And when tasked with Viren being presented with treating another family member as spell parts, even now with that family member's consent, he refuses.

Soren and his request/willingness provides Viren the chance to take the weight he placed on Soren over Lissa and her leaving off Soren's shoulders, narratively and symbolically. However, the two are linked not just through Viren, but also through Claudia.

First, a side note:

Inversion

The other big interesting psychological underpinning, I think, is that as of season 7 there's no way that Soren has finished processing his feelings about Viren, or Viren's apology/amends... yet he clearly believes now that his father did change and that they were effective, because illusion!Lissa repeats more than a few of them verbatim.

The choice to have illusion!Lissa's apology mirror Viren's is interesting to say the least, and a look into Soren's psyche at least partially. It shows that while some things from Viren did resonate enough for Soren to think they'd be effective with Claudia, and also possibly things Soren thinks his mother would never say otherwise.

Part of this is because, as stated, Lissa and Soren are inversions of each other. The inversion of one offering consent but being refused vs not offering and being violated. There are also smaller parallels, such as Viren routinely going after Soren's intelligence versus the one descriptor he has of his wife.

SOREN: Dad is so smart, so I figured there must be a good reason. (2x07) SOREN: Wait, I know I'm not the smartest, but I know what you said. (3x03)

Inverted parallels of staying and leaving. Of Soren being angry at his mother (and Terry) for doing—in some ways—exactly what he did to Claudia. Making her choose, and leaving her when she won't.

With that in mind, let's round back to Claudia, and how she links Soren and Lissa to one another.

Claudia

Season seven in some ways hammers home both Lissa as a representative for saving her children's relationship, and why it fell apart in the first place. Let's talk about the second facet first.

For example, one of the crucial things that Soren learned and internalized from Lissa is that Claudia doesn't make her choices.

CLAUDIA: And Soren chose Dad. How could I choose? How could I do that? Then my mom looked at my dad and she told me to stay.

This is why Soren has to wrestle with new aspects of his dynamic with Claudia in season 7 in such a difficult way. In prior seasons, he and Viren could both blame Viren for Claudia's actions and choices, and did so.

SOREN: Dad is dead, Claudia. You don't have to do what he wants anymore. (4x07) VIREN: I know I have set my sweet, brilliant daughter down the wrong path. I have led you by the hand and I have led you by my example. (6x01) VIREN: I have watched Claudia walk down such a dark path, Soren. And I set her on it. I am to blame. (6x05) SOREN: Put down the staff, Claudia. Dad's staff. (7x06)

This is why after Claudia asserts her own agency and choices ("Okay. Follow me" / "No, [the staff] is mine now") that Soren doubles down on his previous sentiments: "If you won't stop, then I will stop you" (4x07) to "we have to stop her" (7x08). It's taken a long time, but he's unlearned the idea his mother passed down, and can see Claudia is culpable and responsible for her choices — even if that strips away the defenses he still had up in regards to being unwilling to hurt her.

However, Lissa still represents / carries the narrative hope of the siblings reconciling for two clear reasons. One is the shot below, which is about as on the nose as you could possibly get.

The other is because of the contrast the broyals provide in 7x09 that also harkens back to 2x09 directly:

CALLUM: I said I hated you, and would hate you forever. And Mom said it was okay to be angry, but that I couldn't let the bad feelings stick. Because we were going to need each other. Because we're brothers. I still need you, Ezran.

CLAUDIA: And [Mom] told me to stay. She said that I had to stay with Soren, that this was my home, and that my brother and I needed each other.

Lissa is also an important tenet for Soren, because in order to confront and deal with his lingering anger towards her for abandoning them, he has to also come to terms with his own feelings and recognize Claudia's about him abandoning her. Once they work through that, they can work their way back to other from the brink, because their mother was right. They need each other, and they always will.

Because Lissa is Soren's shadow self, and in some ways, Soren is his mother and sister's light.

[twst-hottest-takes]

When Pomefiore first came out on the JP server a few years ago, I genuinely thought that Neige's cutesiness was just an act and that he was far darker behind closed doors. But, nope. Turns out that Neige is completely "what you see is what you get", and that really threw me off. I'm not the only one. I'm not the only one. Other fic writers in this fandom like LeaderPinhead have said that they thought the same thing.

While it's fine that Yana never went in that direction, she never did anything with his character either. He's just a cardboard cutout for Vil to sneer at and literally nothing else. It's so bad that Vil ironically is the better Snow White analog. Vil is similar to her personality wise, being hardworking, adaptable, assertive and at times kind. He has plenty of flaws like being overly domineering, being too blunt and harsh among other things, but that's a good thing. Those negative traits only make him feel like a real person and a modern male version of Snow White. Neige's similarities are limited to only his looks. His backstory makes no sense and comes right out of nowhere. (Seriously, why wasn't he and the dwarves taken in by Child Protective Services, if he was a minor in modern times?) That's such a waste to me. Neige is the antagonist of the Pomefiore arc, so there should be more to him than that.

However, if I wrote this story, I would do just that. Make Vil the one based on Snow White and Neige is based on the Evil Queen, being like Maurice Cole from Black Butler.

While I haven't read Black Butler, from what I heard from one of my friends and after watching a summary video of the Public School Arc, Cole is Redmond's helper (not using the manga's term because it's a slur). He has a cutesy demeanor, coming off as courteous and polite. He is beloved in the school. Behind closed doors, he's the worst, and, in all honesty, is like a modern version of the Evil Queen. He's a vain asshole, who hates hard work, and frequently leaves his duties to those beneath him. He is willing to resort to underhanded methods to get what he wants. When someone does something better than him, he will make sure to knock them down.

Why couldn't Neige be more like that? Don't get me wrong. I don't think Neige should've been a copy and paste of that other character. Hell, I would argue that differentiating them is a good thing. Not only to change things up, but according to that same friend, he's boring and lazily written. Plus, I don't see Neige doing one of Cole's despicable actions being ever greenlit by Disney. But I think giving Neige some of those same traits would be a step in the right direction. That way he would have a personality and be an actual threat to Vil.

I have seen a lot of people say similar things about their expectations for Neige actually.

Thank you for your take.

You've made a very thoughtful entry here, and I will leave it mostly for others to read and respond to because I think this is an interesting conversation to be had.

My own thoughts are short, that I definitely like the idea of Neige being more characterized so that he can be more of, you know, a character, but I never really liked the idea of him being secretly nasty. I feel like there's too much stock in the corruption of innocence and really would like to have a character as straightforward and just nice as Snow White was--though to be fair we do have Kalim already so people might not want another character too similar to him. In any case maybe a fun idea would be Vil being paranoid about Neige like "No one of his celebrity is that nice!" and part of his beef with him is being annoyed by the idea that Neige is just that genuine. TWST fails at making much out of that rivalry though. With Yana's writing history for Black Butler and such I don't blame people for thinking there should have been a darker side here.

[comicsohwhyohwhy]

Arcane theory - Viktor's utopia and the eldritch horror

Sooooo been thinking. Clearly Viktor's 'healing' isn't actually healing, it's turning people into husks and vessels for some sort of arcane horror. Look at what Jayce sees when he walks through the camp and looks at the 'people', those images being overlaid really fast onto the supposedly serene faces (and also think about Salo not breathing and the like, and this sort of husk-face also appearing from Jayce's pov when he looks at him):

I fully believe Jayce sees the 'truth' here, and that's why he has to kill Viktor. As Viktor said in season one - 'Jayce, you have to destroy it. You have to. Promise me'. As he said beginning season two: 'I should have died. What am I? The hexcore killed Sky, Jayce.' This force is evil, and I'll come to what exactly it does and what it means for Viktor's arc in a moment.

And as I've said before, not only does Jayce kill Viktor with Viktor's blessing - the entity within Jayce, the 'second will' that herald Viktor feels - that's Viktor himself, the part of Viktor unsoiled by the corruption by the hexcore. We see this because the Jayce coming back after months within the hexcore carries traits of Viktor, he has the leg brace, the shoulder brace, he's Jayce, but he carries Viktor's 'essence'. It's Viktor's choice that this version of him causing so much evil in the world has to die. It's Viktor taking back the autonomy over himself that Jayce took from him when he changed him with the hexcore against his will.

This sort of split, two wills being at work, is imo exactly what's happening with the eldritch horror hexcore force in Viktor's body and mind too. I thiiiiink that Viktor's still fully in there, only totally under the thrall of that force and deceived by it into believing he's really healing people, and we see glimpses of him - e.g. when he refuses to use Vander for his own purposes. I think what's still purely Viktor is the Viktor we see on the astral plane, the one with the amber eyes that we know so well, the one who shows emotions and has facial expressions that we recognise.

This is the Viktor that ultimately allows Jayce to kill him - because that's what happens, the boy/husk leading Jayce to Viktor is under his control, after all, and Viktor, with all his amazing powers, doesn't even lift a finger to try and prevent Jayce from killing him. Maybe this Viktor has started to realise that he's being tricked and used, that he's bringing evil into the world.

So probably that's the Viktor (or a version of that) that lives within Jayce now too. And Sky, the supposedly benign 'guide', his inspiration - that's the hexcore, it's the form the eldritch horror takes to influence Viktor, to bend him to its will, to make him think he's healing when he's in fact killing and making a conduit for evil in this world. The hexcore knows that Viktor's feelings of remorse towards Sky make her the perfect form for toying with Viktor, for deceiving him.

Now, this is suuuch a mean arc I'll have to say. Viktor, who's always wanted to help people, whose main clash with Jayce was over the urgency of that need vs. Jayce's other ambitions, like being well respected within Piltover, ends up killing so many, doing so much harm, while thinking that he's doing good and healing people. I really hope that this won't just be it - Jayce managing to kill Viktor, the Viktor-essence within Jayce evaporating. I do hope that this character does get another chance to actually do good, a less hopeless ending. But it's Arcane, it can be VERY MEAN AND TRAGIC, so we'll seeeeeee what they do with my fave tragic twink...

[prismshow]

I don't know if you ever said it before, but do you think Gabriel was a good villain?

mmm i guess the answer is yes because i think he's a good character? and the things that make him a "bad" villain are intentional flaws and weaknesses that make him more human. he's arrogant, short-sighted, and all his wins are attributed to outside help from nathalie, tomoe, or even felix !!! but he's not really meant to be seen as a schemer, as the way he exerts power over people is through his status. as he claims in pretention and as felix highlights in his play, the empire he's built and the resources he has access to make him the most intimidating, it's about "gabriel agreste" as a symbol of influence, who can control people in more ways than one.

he shines the most in S5 as he fully loses it and his dehumanization of adrien reaches ridiculously cruel extremes with the alliance rings, which are one of my personal favorite visual metaphors in the show altogether. it's sort of what i'm getting at, that you can see gabriel increasingly more corrupt with every passing season, and with that he also loses all the plausible deniability he was operating with from the start. the agreste story arc of S1-S5 is ultimately about questioning the consequences of our choices and the power we each hold as individuals, and gabriel is a physical manifestation of our worst possible selves. he's unapologetically selfish from his first to last appearance and even when he seems to come to recognize the results of his insanity, he cowardly leaves marinette to clean up his mess & deal with the aftermath.

while nathalie snapped out of it earlier than him & tried making amends for her actions by doing the bare minimum for adrien with the time she had left, and as felix ended up trading his cynicism for a positive outlook through the power of love, gabriel remained stubborn in his ways and his goal changed from the noble-sounding promise to reunite his family to, like, sticking it to those morally righteous brats as he grew mad with power. like akumas are people possessed by their negative emotions, gabriel is consumed by his regrets without even realizing it, and he's a cautionary tale for marinette to remember so that she doesn't end up like him. felix got to find out for himself pretty quickly how it felt becoming the monster that he thought his father was, that gabriel agreste was, and he immediately changed his path. but for marinette, whose life mirrors gabriel's own, the stakes are much higher and she's yet to come to terms with whether the choices she made in the S5 finale & london special were morally reprehensible after all. even with his physical disappearance, gabriel's control of the media, the people, and his son, have all been passed down to marinette and he still lives on through her. she could arbitrarily sympathize with felix's motivations as they both fought for adrien's sake and eventually their own romantic interests, but this time she's in a situation that would greatly affect and endanger her own life, and that's where the question initially posed to gabriel comes back to her - how far is she willing to go to keep things as they are, and how long will it be before she's also consumed by regrets?

the marinette/felix/gabriel spectrum really fascinates me because these characters have a ton of flaws in common as well as a similar way of thinking, and the distinction only lies in how instilled those mindsets are, and how easy or hard it would be to change them. marinette is always second-guessing, always unsure of herself; felix knows who he is, he has causes he vehemently advocates for but he's willing to make the occasional sacrifice or two if they'll benefit him in the long run, and he'll learn from past mistakes when things blow up in his face - and as for gabriel? he never makes any compromises, never reflects on himself, not once does he try and make an attempt until it's too late to change things.

and the way all of this ties with the show's message definitely makes him an incredible villain to me. thematically, he archieved his purpose in miraculous' first story arc and was an amazing nemesis to the main character. my only real complaints are only about how much more could've been done with these parallels while he was still active as the primary antagonist, or how we were only told about gabriel's past in the last minute, even if it was purposefully hidden. however i'm really excited for lila to succeed him as the theme of lies will surely be the most prominent in the second story arc, and i hope i'm correct in assuming that'll mean gabriel replacing emilie as the entity the narrative revolves around.

[stagefoureddiediaz]

Initial thoughts on that article - I’m excited! I mean the journalist needs to do a bit more homework (I’m looking at you sentence about Eddie kissing Kim!) and I’m always going to take anything Tim says in an article with a giant handful of salt, but by and large all he said is telling me that the arcs for all our characters seem to be interesting and varied.

This got so very long so it’s going below the cut - but if you only want to read the buddie stuff then start reading where I’ve changed the text colour (so you can find it easily - because I’m nice like that!) 🐝🐝🐝

I love that Tim described madney and henren as being a family unit outside of the firehouse and I’m really excited to see that built upon - I loved that we got more hen and Maddie interactions last season and I want more of it. So I’m looking forward to seeing that dynamic develop as part of the Mara arc.

Ortiz hs so much potential to be a truly great villain - with a more sustained arc - something the show hasn’t ever really done and I’d like them to. Ortiz v Hen as a half season or more plotline would be so good and exploring corruption in politics and how it corrupts other public systems and services would be such a great thing to explore (and Aisha would knock it out of the park)

I’m going to say here that season 8 is very much screaming season 3 redux at me - all of the things we know thus far all seem to parallel season 3 events, even down to the bee-nado - which is starting to sound more and more like a mirror of the tsunami - in that the tsunami wave itself was only a brief thing, but the aftermath was where the major incidents and action was for all the various characters and the set up of their arcs. And Tim saying the bees set up I’m super excited for that as a concept.

Since we first saw them filming on a plane I’ve been wondering if we were going to be seen if another 70’s disaster movie homage and it seems I was right - my money is on Airport 77 being the movie in question

And I’m really interested in who it’s going to showcase and what part of her history were exploring. I would really love to see them exploring the Jeffery arc and her trauma from that, but I’m not sure that’s what we’ll be getting (Jeffery being dead doesn’t negate this exploring that part of her story I just don’t think it’s where we’re going)

My feeling is it’s connected into Emmett in some way. It was ‘resolved’ in Athena begins and then never really spoken of again, so maybe we’ll be seeing Dennis Jenkins (the guy who shot Emmett) as one of the prisoners on the plane and Athena will have to confront her remaining trauma there and possibly the damage arresting DJ has had after all that time he passed.

On to Bobby - what can I say technical consultant bobby is going to be perfection. Bobby has had some heavy arcs over the past couple of seasons so it’s pretty obvious he’s got the comic relief arc for at least 8a. I’m really looking forward to seeing Bobby being done with Hollywood etc. And I’m really excited to see how they get him back to the 118 where he belongs.

Onto the bit I know most of you are reading this for!!

The Buck arc is screaming lawsuit redux at me and that ties in nicely to Bobbys arc. Instead of Buck being stopped from returning to the 118, this time it’s Bobby. Gerrard is the Chase Matthew’s of this situation and so I remain convinced of my assertion that buck (having learnt from the lawsuit arc) is going to initially fail against Gerrard before he figures out getting close to him and therefore being able to figure out his weaknesses is the best way to get rid of him and get Bobby back.

The Buck T*mmy section in the article of it all has me laughing so very hard I nearly fell off my chair.

Look, this ‘relationship’ is still fairly new and they are still in the ‘getting to know each other’ phase, so I wouldn’t be expecting Tim to start waxing lyrical about them as a couple, but saying this;

To describe the first queer relationship of one of your mains, whose entire storyline last season was his bi awakening, when it’s at the point when everything should still be new and exciting isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of said relationship.

It’s entirely possible to gush about a relationship - especially one that is essentially groundbreaking on your show - without giving any plot away or making it seem like they’re endgame.

More comfortable together is the only thing you could come up with to describe them as a couple? - what does that really mean? Comfortable is how you describe a pair of slippers or an old hoodie that’s all worn in and soft. If you’re using more comfortable as one descriptor in a longer sentence with other descriptors that shows the development of said relationship then that’s totally acceptable. But to use it as the only one (aside from saying they’re a couple), well that screams of a relationship that is a plot device.

And you know what else backs that up as a concept - Tim proceeds to use the rest of his answer to the question about Buck and T*mmy’s relationship to talk about Eddie and Eddie and Buck and their relationship. So what I’m getting is that Eddie is still at the centre of things within that relationship - just as he has been throughout the entirety of s7 - where Buck and Tommy managed to have a grand total of 3 scenes out of nearly 20 together where Eddie wasn’t either present or spoken about at length (and one of those was literally just a scene of them kissing!)

Even using the word comfortable again to describe Buck, Tommy and Eddie hanging out together (anticipating some sort of scene that echoes the karaoke bar scene - where we get petty jealous Eddie and I can’t wait!). Which means comfortable is a very intentional word choice - not one that bodes well for the longevity of the reltionship.

So what I’m getting from that. Is that ‘more comfortable together’ means boring and that Tim is using the relationship to create the same distance we saw between Buck and Eddie in season 3 during the lawsuit arc - the distance that ultimately brought them even closer together and led to Eddie changing his will.

Season 3 was when the show really established buddie as a thing - they lay the foundations in s2, but s3 was when they tested and then built the walls of that dynamic ready for the pieces to be put into place over seasons 4 & 5 so they could make buddie canon.

This BT relationship is literally being used to put Eddie in the same space he was in in s3 - isolated (thank you Ryan for that word choice!) because Buck is not available to him as much (or at all in the case of s3) so he spiralled out in his grief over Shannon’s death and joined a fight club.

All this to say that the chess pieces are being manoeuvred in a really positive direction on the buddie front and I expect to see 8a following a somewhat similar pattern as 3a did - big opening disaster which sets up the various arcs, which includes being shown buck and Eddie’s closeness initially, only to separate them off for a bit so Eddie can have his gay awakening (fight club minus the fight club) and Buck can do some more figuring out about what he actually wants of his own (lawsuit without the law suit) and then bring them back together in time for Christmas - which they will spend together with a newly returned Christopher (mirroring s3 Christmas perfectly) and the rest of the firefam.

Even the Eddie question backs up this as a theory;

I’m fully expecting to get Eddie having conversations with his parents - via call and FaceTime - but not with Chris because he still won’t talk to his dad. The choice to say everything has been stripped away from him except his job is also giving some echoes of s5 - juxtaposing when Eddie essentially had everything else except his job which lead to his breakdown. Tim is a master of deploying subterfuge whilst also using very intentional words - so this comment is making me excited. It’s (to me at least) saying that Eddie is secure in his job and there is not really going to be any drama on the job front. That in the past eddie connected his worth to whatever job he was doing (army, his three jobs in El Paso firefighter) so when the job was taken away he had no worth and that therefore meant he was a failure as a father and a husband - so he spiralled out. Now he has his job and he’s in a good place with that and knowing how his worth as a person isn’t tied into that job. Now instead he has nothing else - all the things he’d tied his worth onto away from his job are suddenly gone so he has to go back to the drawing board and this time look at himself and who he actually is and why he wants.

The choice of the word ‘hell’ is also a choice - ‘who the hell he is’ - season 7 laid the groundwork for edddies reckoning with the catholic faith (former nun Marisol, Eddie talking about being a lapsed catholic and catholic guilt and bobby giving Eddie the bible etc) and we know they’ve been filming in a church. Hell as a word choice is just backing that up and hinting at the idea that Eddie figuring out who he is and choosing living his life as his true self would damn him to hell in the eyes of his religion. So gay Eddie here we go!!

This was supposed to be a quick ‘ooh I’m excited everything is being perfectly set up’ post and then I did my usual thing and write a mammoth essay 🤣 so if you’ve read all of this - thank you and I love you and I hope you enjoyed it - can’t wait to hear your thoughts!

[zetalial]

You know, I wonder if when the writers were first plotting out FMA 03, they were planning on the liore arc being the finale.

There's absolutely something to the idea of starting an ending in Liore, giving Ed's story a full circle, beginning with him naively toppling a corrupt priest and unknowingly beginning the chain of events that would lead to an uprising and eventually the creation of the philosopher's stone. Ed finally confronting the past after being in denial all series is a great conclusion. The liore arc is basically where everything comes together. Scar's arc reaches a conclusion. Lust chooses not to follow Dante's orders here. Ed confronts Sloth here. The stone is made here. It even has Roy in the position of seeing another Ishval happening when everything he'd been doing in the military had been justified by searing to gain power to prevent it from ever happening again. His arc has all come a full circle.

Also just the philosopher's stone formation is a big finale moment on its own. To compare it to Mangahood, the promised day arc is literally all about a mass transmutation to creat philosophers stone.

I do like the finale we got, I think ending below Central City which is of course a centrepoint is also very elegant and I love the aesthetic of the ballroom. Underground city is very cool.

Liore would almost work but while its the climax to a lot of stuff, it would have to expand into something else to conlude a lot of the plotlines. For Roy's side, he can witness that everything was for naught in Liore, but the response, to that in the form of a coup and personally killing the Fuhrer is equally necessary to his arc. Sloth's arc is far from done if Ed only first confronts her here. Seeing the response, him deliberately digging up Trisha's grave is important.

That said, a lot of the finale does feel messy, particularly in how the characters move around. It's functional, but it definitely feels random that Envy just captures Al for instance. If they intended Liore as a sort of finale in earlier drafts, it would perhaps also explain why Rose is present in the ballroom, if the scene had been originally conceived as occurring somehow within Liore. as she's actually connected to that place.

Anyway this is just a thought I had. I like the ending as is, seeing the aftermath is super important. It wouldn't just smoothly fit into Liore which might be why they didn't attempt that but I wouldn't be surprised if it was considered originally as the finale.