#yurrrsssss-ASK

[yurrrsssss-ghoul]

I gotta ask where do you find all this Damian hate or Talia hate cus I personally haven't seen any. My tumblr experience in this fandom has been over all positive. Everyone I've seen seems to like every character. I have came into with hate about any character actually when I think about it. Genuine question. So where are you guys getting all this from? Cus from my perspective it looks like you guys are looking for it.

Oh! And always I don't understand the hate for wfa. It think it's cute and fun but I understand it's not everyone's cup it's just the energy gives that you wouldn't like me because I like it...

(you came across my fyp and I got curious that's all this really is. Not trying to be rude I promise.)

Hi!

This is going to be a long post, so scroll down for the short answer.

First thing you need to know about me, I am a huge al-Ghul Family fan! I prefer Damian to the rest of the Batkids, Talia to Bruce and Ra's to any other characters. Second thing you need to know is that these characters, unfortunately, are often used as props to upvote other characters in one way or another, even at the cost of their own character assassination.

One thing I'd like to clarify, I do not actively seek out anti or hate comment of my fav characters--- in fact, I actively stay away from any variations of 'Bad mom Talia al-Ghul' or 'anti Damian' or 'Creepy Ra's al-Ghul', etc. etc. across any medias (tumblr, Twitter, ao3, TikTok). As we all find out later, everyone has a way of putting those kinds of element in any other tags.

The following examples I've provided are solely for illustrative purposes only. I do not condone harassments of any kind, and I do not encourage anyone to find these people unless you enjoy the kinds of contents that they produce:

As you may have realized, these aren't necessarily hate content, just people butchering my favorite characters for their blorbos to hug.

The first three images are being joking that Ra's would get on one knees for Tim, making Damian the butt of the joke, etc. The fourth picture is just?? Impromptu tag because why is Talia in it even though it's specifically about Bruce and Selina? Is she the ex? What.

This is literally a response from my own post where I make a satirical joke. Like. They come to my blog.

I applaud you for being able to curate your own internet experiences according to your preference, however it's a bit difficult for people who likes characters that are, for whatever reason, the punching bags for the fandom's favorite. The cause of trauma, as you will.

I can't escape it, because it's a popular notion that the al-Ghuls are the bane of everyone's existence within DC fandom spaces. That Talia drugged and raped Bruce (retconned), that she sleeps with Jason (also retconned), that Ra's is insane about Tim and obsessed with him (he talks to him, like, twice) and Damian is a feral Arab child that needed to be civilized.

I could scroll TikTok, came across a video that featured Talia in it, and the comments are filled to the brim with people saying bs like, "Remember when she SA'd Bruce?" or "Errmmmm do people forget that she cracks Jason like???". I decided to expand my repertoire and check the tags that aren't exclusively 'Damian Wayne-Centric' on ao3, and two scrolls in that boy was being put at the stake for being Robin or leaving Robin. Ra's al-Ghul is the victim of his own tags.

Regarding WFA, I have a sort of mixed-feelings about it; don't get me wrong, I recognize that comic to be fandom-pilled than it is a canon material. To me, WFA is as canon as 'Nothing Butt Nightwing' comic, or even Harley's Scratch and Sniff comic.

It's there for people in the fandom to enjoy, but not much of a canon material that you can refer to when discussing the depth of a character--- however, it's still not free from criticism as it also convey certain messages, and it's particularly bad considering that most (if not all) new fans either stayed loyal to that comic or only read WFA.

WFA is a comic that specifically made to indulge the fans, a complete fan-service if I ever see one, where they delve into popular tropes being thrown around in the fandom so they can garner more viewers.

Again, at the great cost of my favorite characters being butchered.

For example, episode 13 of WFA: Stupid Traditions.

Because of course, why would Talia who gave Damian Goliath (and should be canon in universe considering Goliath has made a few appearance in WFA) allowed Damian to have pets? Why would she allowed him to form meaningful connections with lowly beings like animals, even though both came from LoA who's notoriously known to be an eco-terrorist organization that protects the environment and whatnot? Preposterous!

I know it's not exactly an attempt of butchering Talia, but it's the implication. The sub context. Readers are meant to read that and goes, "Oh, poor Damian! He doesn't know how his birthdays should be celebrated because of his evil Arab family! Thank God his good white family is here to save him and lets him behave like a child that he should be!".

But in canon, this is how Damian's birthdays were celebrated when he was at the Waynes:

Either alone or Bruce flat out forgot.

It's the same element when Damian suddenly told Lizzie that Ra's used to lock him in a box without food and water and left him in the desert for seven days in the Trinity Special.

It's meant to invoke some sort of reaction from the readers without no real thoughts being put to consider how this might affect Ra's image and character as a whole. It particularly sucked considering this comic was written by Tom King. A.k.a the war criminal.

I've had similar conversations with many people asking why I hate characters like Tim Drake so much, and my answer is the same; I don't. I enjoy his character, but it's how people characterize him that made me annoyed. Not to mention how, again, my favs are butchered and assassinated to smithereens for him, and I suppose it's the same thing with WFA as well.

People who exclusively read WFA believes that it's canon, thus creating a problem where they thought fanon things are canon, even though it really isn't. They advocate that it's canon and they choose to disregard the actual canon materials, saying that the BatFam is this cool, loving bunch when these mfs cannot be in the same room without blood being shed.

Still, it's cool if you like it. I just wouldn't recommend it to other people, especially new fans, as their first comic.

TLDR; No, I didn't actively seek out hate content of my favs. Them being the universe punching bag is just a popular trope to curate the 'bohoo this poor white man' content, so I can't exactly escape it. No, I don't hate WFA, I just don't like it much. I can enjoy the Slice of Life but ehh. Don't treat it as canon or become your basis understanding of the characters and their relationships with other people, because it's inaccurate.

[yurrrsssss-ghoul]

Hi, so, the way your last post made me think about how Talia and Ra's must have glazed over Bruce to make Damian look forward to meet him and actually make him want to stay with him. I just know that the expectations vs. reality hit Damian hard.

Also Damian is so much better than me because if my dad acted the way Bruce acted, I would have ran back to my mom. Also the way he celebrated his 13th birthday alone in that one comics?? I would have held a grudge and made it everyone's problem ngl.

If you don't know what this person is referring to, see my post.

Also, yeah! I feel like it all comes back to how Talia often tells stories of Bruce through the lenses of the legendary Batman— depicting him as the Dark Knight (tm) that protects the kingdom of Gotham against evil-doers and injustice (typical knight in shining armor story)— that got Damian all too excited, as per every other boys his age tends to be.

Talia tells Damian that his father is a king (albeit not exactly directly), and that gets him excited. The mystery nature that is shrouded around the identity of his father is bound to get anyone excited— because it promises greatness, among other things.

But when Damian meets Bruce, everything crashes and he is met with the reality that alludes to his very world; that his father isn't necessarily a great man, and that his mother just hyped him up to make Damian want to stay. It then opens the possibility of dissapointment, and it's ugly. Because now Damian is facing two grown adults that aren't truthful to him.

I also feel like this encompasses just how forgiving Damian really is. For the better or for the worse, he never really holds grudges against Bruce for all of his wrong-doings. Sure, he'd throw a tantrum here and there, put on a scowl on his face, but ultimately reasoned those things against him.

Damian already has low self-esteem to begin with, but he hides them under the disguise of an egoistical brat whose main sin is pride. Damian feels like the only reason Bruce sees him as a son is because of his biological status, and even then it's never really guaranteed. With Robin, it might cement his place besides Batman, but it also jeopardizes his development with other people.

How many times is Bruce going to assume the worst out of everyone who's interacted with Damian out of pure good-will? How many times does Damian have to chalk it up to him being insecure? How many opportunities or friends must Damian lose just to ensure Bruce that he's not being replaced?

(Batman and Robin 2023, issue #18)

Sure, you might argue that I'm leaving behind a very important context that is Bruce being unsure of his place as a father to Damian—

— but what about Damian?

"Dr. Bashar can't possibly take Damian under his goodwill because he sees some alleged potential" and "If Damian loses his mask, I'll lose him" can be two right things that exist, but the existence of another doesn't negate the other thing.

And Damian would forgive the man— because how could he not? Bruce is his father and he means well and he probably doesn't mean it—

Until it happens again.

Again.

And again.

But it doesn't matter, because Damian would continue to forgive, forever and always— because that's a trend we see in children raised in a dysfunctional home. They'd reason with their parents, the ones causing them pain, justifying their actions even if it means berating them to the nth degree in the process. In due time, Damian fundamentally believes that he might as well be the root of all of Bruce's problems.

You can make an argument. That Bruce doesn't mean the things he said, that he's struggling too, that he doesn't know how to raise a teenager (granted, Damian hasn't always been the most normal teenager), that there's more context needed. However, at that very moment, it still affects Damian, and these will stick to him for as long as he lives.

[yurrrsssss-ghoul]

whats ur ideal characterization of the al ghuls ?

This might come across as more or less a biased perspective, but I'll try to put them into sections (littler parts so it'll be more digestible) and back up with actual evidence with canon materials as to avoid being completely fanon-y.

First, I'd like to admit my flaws that sometimes I do tend to fall to certain tropes. I'm a complete sucker for mother-ly/childish/fun Talia who has her own things going on (the run where she was the CEO of LexCorp? Love it), I like to see more of Ra's being some sort of radical environmentalist and I do appreciate it when Damian acts more or less like a kid with love for art and theater.

However, I also understand that I can't have everything, and that their lifestyle also dictates their characteristics, so I'll try my best to keep both things balanced.

First, let's get a few things out of the way. The al-Ghuls are strict, they're disciplined and certainly smart and strong. Whatever I'm saying next does not negate any of these things; they certainly do commit wrong-doings here and there, though I feel like when discussing about the 'correct' characterization of the al-Ghuls, I think it all falls down under a single issue.

I'd like to see them more emotional.

Contrary to popular beliefs, the al-Ghuls aren't 'unfeeling monsters'. In fact, I believe that the primary factor that drives them towards their goal is the fact that they're emotional beings, ruled by their love if not passion, among other things.

Ra's love for the environment drives him to raise an eco-terrorist organization, Talia's love for the men in her life ultimately leads her to her demise, not to mention how she conducted an international hunt for her mother's killer outside of Ra's knowledge, Damian's love for his parents destroyed him altogether.

One way or another, all of them were (I supposed, martyred) for their love of someone else, or something else. Doomed.

The best I could describe this is by using the 'White guy philosophy'. Like how, if you can't imagine Batman comforting children, then you didn't imagine Batman. You just imagine some guy in a bat costume beating up criminals.

Similarly, if you can't imagine Ra's crying over animals that died or mourning his family, or Talia saving women or children and comforting them and loving her family, or Damian willing to sacrifice himself for his family— then you didn't imagine the al-Ghuls. You, in fact, are seeing them through the rose-tinted glass of stereotypical vision.

Consequently, anything that implies them pursuing a relationship because of genetics, blood, power, or whatever is inherently revolting.

A part of me died whenever people emphasized how they (the al'Ghuls) only reproduce to acquire the 'perfect heir,' when nothing could be further from the truth. Ra's genuinely loves his wives, and he didn't press it when Talia (his favorite daughter, by the way, and by his definition, perfect) refused to lead the LoA. Talia genuinely loves Bruce and wanted to have a family with him, but alas gave it up when she saw how he was endangering himself for her.

Thankfully, Damian is 14. And I haven't seen such claims made about him.

It all ties back to the al-Ghuls being 'unemotional', that everything has some sort of ulterior motives for them. That the notion of them conceiving or starting a family doesn't have anything to do aside from some grand plot of bringing down humanity.

It also fuels a lot of other issues, a can of worms I'm opening for another day.

Ra's wouldn't seek out someone to produce the perfect heir, he wouldn't condone animal cruelty or even unjust terrorism. Talia isn't some seductress that lures men to feast on them or whatever, and she certainly wouldn't sit alright if she witnessed a form of violence. Damian isn't some stupid, spoiled brat that scream out, "I'm the blood son" every other second.

Make them romantic people. Make them kind. But also make them fight to be kind, make their kindness be the end of them. That their virtues are also the sins that condemned them to hell. They are demons on Earth because they are angels that were exiled from heaven.

Also, like, separate them from what they do? Let Ra's sometimes just take a walk at his many gardens and care for animals, let Talia travel the world and allow her to go on her own adventures and let Damian act however he wants to be.

I'm ending this now because I really don't want it to go far beyond what was expected, but here are some things I'd love to be more incorporated into their writings.