#zach/zorian

[monochrome-genesis]

Rereading Mother of Learning and drew Zorian Kazinski and Zach Noveda (send help they're taking over my life)

[braininatankwithalaptop]

Remembering a few Percy Jackson x Mother of Learning crossover posts (a few being two in this case) and considering what if it was a transmigration fic and instead of the two of them being demigods they end up the parents of demigods.

Zach sleeps with Aphrodite in disguise and doesn't think twice of it. Until his semi-divine son shows up

Zorian has very intelligent conversations with Athena in a museum (trying to not freak out at the divine mind that either overwhelms his senses or is completely inaccessible) and then has a daughter in a golden cradle on his doorstep.

The two of them freak out at having to be single parents but reach out to and support each other(Could get some good coparenting fluff from this), their children so much like them but also otherworldly & divine.

Then when their children start getting attacked by monsters they know what's going on and are able to help them actively help them with both magic training, spell formulas, and just being good guardians.

And then when they find out about the truth of the greek world and their children are invited to camp half blood they proactively involve themselves in whatever war is going on because there's no way in Hades that they're going to let their preteen kids fight for their lives without help.

Zorian and Zach rocket to the top and only compete with Sally Jackson in "best demigod parent & all the other demigods are jealous of their kids."

[readsquirrel]

One of the things I most appreciate about Mother of Learning is that it really wrestles with the question of what the loopers owe to the people around them. It’s not just a matter of saying a thank you they won’t remember, or preventing some mild annoyance from happening once out of the loop. It’s a much more profound moral obligation.

The people may not remember having helped, but their repeated kindness and sacrifices over time were so much of what made Zorian and Zach able to grow. Each time Kael helped, he did so knowing that the knowledge he passed forward was never guaranteed to be passed back to him. When Taiven helped train Zorian, she was helping him run that much farther ahead of her. When Xvim and Alanic learned about the time loop and started investigating, they had no guarantees that their real selves would be saved from death, let alone benefited.

Usually in a time loop story, the loopers are expected to grow and become better people, but the side characters are mostly just a tool for that growth. Yes, the MC may form an emotional bond with them, but it’s largely viewed as a benefit to the MC’s emotional arc. So, to have that element of paying it back and paying it forward be integral to the solution was refreshing and a meaningful observation in this day and age.

[oronthor]

Zorian and Zachs only really option is each other or wait till age isn't a factor. This could be seen as negative. With them settling for the only option but I actually think both are chill with that outcome. Wouldnt you be chill with ending up with someone your already sure will work out? Good team work, make up for each other's faults, live together well, and their each other's best friend? Like it's not like their settling for some loser who behaves poorly.

Also Zach has already seen Zorian at his worst and is with him willingly. If watching a dude decapitate a man, glue his mouth shut and then destroy his mind over many resets nd still calling them your best friend, isn't love. I don't know what love is.

Edit: Maybe their just bestie with low morals. There's options here.

[mage-witha-glock]

Zach canonically thinks Zorian is scarier than him and believes most would see it so (He said this on the hill in Cyoria when first pulling Daimen into the loop.... so to speak. (the metaphorical loop))

Sure Zach is more in-your-face powerful but Zach thinks that Zorian is the one to truly fear, even fears Zorian a little himself. And I think this is why (based on what we see in the books, especially in his pov chapter)

Reason no.1: His artifice. Zorian makes golems that are seen as the pinnacle of golem-making by government officials and Quatach-Ichl himself. Mrva is nigh indestructable and can walk through reality warping attacks. His defense cubes make him practically untouchable. He created a wraith well, by studying soul wells and by mind-raping Sudomir. He even managed to magically upgrade bullets. Zach is canonically very impressed with this, and Zorian admits that he's flattered that Zach thought that he could kill Quatach-Ichl through the use of artifice and cunning.

Reason no.2: His mind magic. Of course, this. This is Zorian's speciality and his range is... unnnerving. There is practically no mind magic that he cannot do. He is equal to many aranean matriarchs and was able to beat Quatach-Ichl in a 1v1. It's Zach that suggests that Zorian could win a 1v1 mind battle with Quatach-Ichl, and he fully believed that Zorian would be capable of creating fake minds. Which again, probably flattered Zorian, although he admits himself that he couldn't do it, not even once.

Reason no.3: The scope of his abilities. Not in the sense of variety, although that too. It's more that Zach doesn't know where Zorian's limit is. He was convinced that Zorian is able to defeat Quatach-Ichl (and was proven correct), he believed that Zorian was able to kill the lich. He even believed that Zorian could create a convincing fake mind. He was proven right that Zorian could tamper with his head even under mind blank, which was one of Zach's first thoughts in the fake world, but even Zorian admits that fake minds are impossible. Zach was fairly confident that Zorian could produce a couple or more fake minds ("the guy was just that scary").

Reason no.4: His pragmatism, in combat and otherwise. Zorian cut Sudomir's arms off, he has little to no qualms with the darker side of magic. Zach is slightly unnerved by this, especially Zorian's willingness to do blood magic.

And of course, reason no.5: His intelligence. Zorian is probably (definitely) the smartest guy Zach knows. Zach knows that Zorian is quick on his feet and intelligent, when he found out that Zorian bypassed mind blank, this admiration of his friend's intelligence probably (grudgingly) multiplied by tenfold. No one has managed a spell like the manifold resonance(? Name?) yet. And it's implications are terrifying.

Not only does Zach think others would find Zorian scarier, he himself is a little afraid of Zorian. He even says this early on in the story. And that speaks volumes.

[spacefairynayu]

I find it very satisfying that Zorian's own choices are what lead to his involvement in the plot.

Zach's meddling may have saved Zorian's life in the initial barrage, but it's Zorian's decision to search for Akoja that tangles their fates together. If Zach had his way Zorian would have been "safe" at the shelters by time Quatach-Ichl showed up, but Zorian strikes out to repay the debt he feels he owes Akoja by driving her into danger and winds up at the right place at the right time. He never would have been partially soul melded to Zach if he had been callous enough or lacking in courage enough to abandon Akoja.

On top of that, he makes a second decision to prioritize someone else's life over his own safety when he let's go of the teleport rod to push Zach out of the way of Quatach-Ichl's attack. Granted, he had to react in a split second and had no time to deliberate, but his first instinct was to protect Zach rather than ensure his own escape.

Amusingly, Zach complains that Zorian let go of the rod while Zorian fires back that Zach would be dead if he hadn't done that. He doesn't seem to regret his choice at all, even if it means that he himself is still in danger.

Zack comments multiple times that trying to keep Zorian alive is a chore, and it occurs to me that the main reason Zorian didn't become involved in the loops years earlier is precisely because Zorian is so difficult to keep alive during the invasion. It wasn't until Zach successfully and naturally got Zorian to attend the dance that the dominoes start falling. Only by saving Zorian does Zach inadvertently open the door for Zorian to enter the stage and drastically change the trajectory of events, eventually saving Zach in turn.

Only when Zorian is alive and free to act completely within his own nature, both driving Akoja away and subsequently trying to rescue her, is he elevated to a protagonist role.

[abisexualsylveon]

Not to be rude to all the z&z shippers, but you know what would be really funny? Zorian being gay, and not being interested in Zach,

like imagine Zorian comes back home with a boyfriend , and Zach is like

Zorian‽ I thought you were straight‽

and Zorian is like

“What have you that impression? I’ve literally never dated a girl seriously in my life?”

“When I was hitting on you, you didn’t even seem a little bit interest!”

“Zach, Zach, Zach, you are my best friend and I love you for that, but I would rather help Daimen try and put our family back together than date you”

“But we spent years in a time loop together!”

“Yes, and I love you dearly as a friend for that, but conversely I know you well enough to know that a relationship between me and you would end in one of us in a soul jar at the least,”

[lavengale]

Benisek: Are you a big spoon or a little spoon?

Zorian: I'm a knife.

Zach, from across the room: He's a little spoon

[viperdarkness]

So, I thought about a Menevolent Mother of learning AU and I mean the obvious choice is just Zorian possesses Zach. I mean they literally already had parts of their souls fused, you can easily go further.

(Since I believe that like in the original Zorian wakes up first) book one would probably go like this:

Ah wtf I woke up in Zach’s body! Wtf is going on?

WTF is Zach’s norm how am I supposed to act!?!?

Oh Man the month is repeating too…

I really need to learn soul magic my control over this body is crap!

Why don’t I get Zach’s humongous mana reserves

Oh fuck my real body is dead and my family is holding a Funeral (I think is soul was ripped and his OG body just got enough to have the marker imprint on it and then eminently die every restart)

Realizing how much Zach was fucked over and having to deal with the lack of resources

[…]

Ah fuck Zach has woken up and now we have two minds in one Body

Anyway at a certain point Zorian has mastered all the soul and mind magic enough to just use Zach’s body as a philactery (like a fucking Litch) and mainly uses his own (self possessed) body and his simulacrums to exist. But it’s gonna be an uphill battle to get there

[braininatankwithalaptop]

Okay, yes I'm sorry I have crossover-itis, but just stick with me here. The framing of Mother of Learning is pretty clear that Zorian's presence in the plot is akin to a rounding error in fate. Zach was chosen and Zorian stumbled into it. What if we take that meta-insertion of Zorian into Zach's plot and make it more literal?

Because I think taking some of the ideas and story beats from Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint and projecting them onto Mother of Learning would work very well.

I'm not sure on the specifics of how this would work (whether Zorian is from the "real world," whether there is a leveling system, who is the Han Sooyoung equivalent) but I do think that there are a lot of interesting themes and parallels overall to have fun with.

First of all, I think it'd be funny if Zorian's and Zach's dynamic is sort of like an inverse of Kim Dojka and Yoo Joonghyuk. Zach isn't Zorian's favorite, actually Zorian kind of hates the guy. He's way too extroverted, not very academic, and way too morally uptight to take the actions that Zorian thinks would solve the problem (maybe his favorite character is Kael? idk). But when Zorian finds himself in the story he thinks "aw beans, I have to stick to this asshole don't I?" Meanwhile Zach is very up front and clear about his interest and care about Zorian. Zorian can't understand it! Even when Zorian told Zach straight to his face that he's a work of fiction and that Zorian thinks his character arc is middling at best, he won't stop being super kind to him! It's frustrating! But none of that matters to Zach, because Zorian is (overall) a good person and has all his memories when Zach is stuck in a time loop. Besides, Zorian is like his opposite in all the good ways.

There are other elements that parallel kind of nicely and otherwise work well together. Zorian's empathy and Dokja's fourth wall. The way both those things have allowed them to understand others to a greater degree while also increasing the distance between them and people. The way both protags sacrifice themselves (at least to others) and the way it causes their friends distress.

There's a lot here, but there's so many moving pieces and liberties with both works that need to be taken to work I just wanted to broadly gesture at the connection instead of doing anything more.

[readsquirrel]

Post series Mother of Learning Zorian is the kind of normal-looking teenage boy who looks so precisely normal that it starts to be uncanny. He’s the kind of exacting facsimile that doesn’t give purchase to suspicion, that in itself becoming unsettling. A little prickly, a little friendly, and somehow always knowing what you’re about to say before you say it.

Imagine then, being one of his classmates, eating a polite and casual but somehow disquieting meal opposite this eerily average standup of a teenage boy. Then suddenly Zach, the charming rich slacker who as far as you know has only rarely interacted with Zorian up until summer break, wanders in. Casually, Zach tosses his arm around Zorian’s shoulders and uses his other hand to grab Zorian’s wrist, just below where he’s holding an apple with one bite out of it. Zach pulls whole hand up, and takes one bite of the apple, then a second. Then he releases Zorian’s wrist, looks up at you, his classmate, and winks before walking off.

Zorian continues eating his apple as if nothing happened.

That’s the kind of weird experiences the rest of their class is gonna have to deal with in the near term.

[oronthor]

Headcanon : Zorian looks like Watanuki to me.

Yeah that's all I have to say. I was watching XXXholic and went. Zorian vibes. It helps that the Clamp universe has a similar vibe to their magic. They use alot of tech in Tsubasa chronicals.

I feel like their actual personalities are nothing alike, just the energy they give off. Watanuki and Zorian don't have the same lifestyles at all, not even the same skills. Sharoran actually has more applicable skills and hobbies to Zorian. I just think he has the right look.

[mage-witha-glock]

Zach: We’re playing Scrabble. It’s a nightmare.

Daimen: Scrabble? Scrabble’s great.

Zach: Not when you’re playing with Zorian, it’s not. He puts words like “ephemeral” and I put “dog.”

[spacefairynayu]

“My brother is really great,” Kirielle protested, pushing Kopriva’s hand away from her hair so she could straighten it back into place. “He’s like a hedgehog. He gets nice once you get past his prickliness.”

Can’t believe Kirielle just assassinated her brother in public by calling him out as a tsundere.

[nemospecific]

Some Perspective

Hi, yes, hello

Just because I've seen this drift across my dash a few times now, I wanna chime in on this.

So, Zorian went through the time loops and experienced a lot more mentally than he did physically, which would make it hard for him to connect to his quote unquote peers, because really the only one who understands him is Zach, blah blah blah

But, like, look. He was only in the loops for about a decade. Eight and a half years of doing stuff, stretched out to ten with the black rooms.

That makes him like a 25 year old in a 15 year old's body.

Not, as some posts seem to feel, a 50 year old. Or 100. Or some weird time abyss beyond the ken of man.

Does that make it weird for him to date a 14 year old? Sure. But the dude could wait 5 years and date a 30 year old and it would be whatever from any perspective you want to consider. He is not locked out of normal human relations aside from Zach for the next 75 years.

If you want to ship Zach and Zorian, I get it. I just think the mental age gap thing is thin soup to work with.

I mean, hell, Zach spent something like 25 years in the loops before Zorian was brought in. The distance between Zach and Zorian is wider than Zorian and his classmates.

[inthefightgarden]

one thing i really wish we got to see more of in mother of learning is zach's simulacrums. like we know they exist. we hear about them participating in plans sometimes. but we never really actually spend any time with them.

i desperately wanna know what they're like. what sides of zach do they amplify or reveal?

i think they might have quite a different attitude to zorian's simulacrums. i mean by the time zorian gets the spell at all he already has very well developed telepathy and amazing memory packet skills. even if they aren't a constantly communicating back and forth low key hivemind yet, they know that any experience or thought they deem important and worthy of preservation can be. i think even if he didn't have those skills, zorian's simulacrums would die for him, but as it is (especially later, but maybe even at the beginning), i kinda think it doesn't feel entirely like dying to them anyway.

zach on the other hand is no master mind mage. i mean he can do telepathy, but he doesn't have anywhere near the range of zorian, and he can't just pass on memories. so his for his simulacrums i think their end might feel a lot more definitive.

we hear from zorian when he learns about the angel contract that zach had gotten "weird and philosophical" lately. do you think his simulacrum's might be a bit like that? more quiet and contemplative when they're not in the middle of a fight or whatever?

i might be wrong but i kinda get the impression zach creates simulacrums for specific jobs, rather than just having them around as default like zorian does. maybe they're pretty normal if a bit hyperfocused while their working on it, but once they've handled their job their behaviour changes?

zach's already pretty impulsive, but maybe his simulacrums amplify that instead? or present it differently? maybe they're a bit more open than the original. zach is a very friendly character on the surface, but he's actually a pretty private dude. i mean i'm sure part of that is the influence of the timeloop and the angel contract, but he didn't really have any close friends before the timeloop either, so i don't think it's entirely a new thing. anyway, maybe his simulacrum's say things he usually wouldn't? reveal a bit more about his deeper thought and feelings? not telling huge secrets or anything, just. being a little more honest than the original would be in certain situations. cause if they don't say it now, when can they?

or maybe they're extra hedonistic, and kinda grumpy that they can't get drunk. (i think it would be very funny if they tried to get zorian's simulacrums to help them figure out how to achieve a drunk adjacent state while being made of ectoplasm. i think it would be very funny if zorian's simulacrums actually did.) (query; if zach was drunk when he made a simulacrum, would it be drunk too? if so, would that fade, or would it remain drunk for it's entire existance? if so, would it enjoy this, or would it eventually get annoyed? i think yes, the second one, and it depends on what it's duties are.)

anyway. zach's simulacrums. those are my thoughts.