adventurers-guide

[adventurers-guide]

Fighters can cast it by wielding a wizard companion. 

Rogues can cast it via “””borrowed””” wands.

Anyway I think every class should be able to cast fireball bc it’s a cool spell and fuck balance this blog is for fun.

[adventurers-guide]

The weapons and equipment of British warriors down the ages, from top to bottom;

Huscarl, 1066

Crusader knight, 1244

Longbowman, 1415

Yorkist Man-at-Arms, 1485

New Model Army musketeer 1645

Private, 1709

Corporal, 1815

Sergeant, 1916

Lance Corporal, 1944

Private, 2014

Source

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What's the best way to play as a Paladin, especially a novice one? How do you straddle the line between being the conscience of the party and an uptight stick-in-the-mud?

It helps to have at least one character in the party that your character “knows” (ie, has some kind of connection to or relationship with).

Make it clear the Paladin has a redline/EXTERMINATUS setting that you reserve for very specific things and anyone who goes there gets the Holy Light to the face via high velocity purified steel. 

A good fellow player will know how to dance on the borderline of that, risking getting whomp’d by the “Stick of a Very Cross God,” and it’s your job to show (a moderate amount of) restraint when dealing with it and understand they’re pushing the boundaries to see what reaction occurs.

It also helps to start a bit overly stuck-up and loosen on the party as the game progresses, especially if the GM gives you a chance to show you’re only doing it for your buddies, and you still have Very Firm Convictions ™.

Also, as per my previous post, work with your party at character generation. Let them know you are interested in playing a Paladin, and work out where they’re going to land on both the alignment (if applicable) and attitude matrices so you aren’t doomed to fail. Honestly it REALLY helps if you can convince someone to be your cousin, sibling, long suffering uncle, etc. They can moderate your character and translate Paladin Speak to Normal People Speak. 

Otherwise, remember a Paladin is still a person. A very faithful person who has a firm belief in their worldview, but probably a person who’d rather not stab someone and clean the gore off their nice white tabard and do all the possible legal paperwork if imprisoning someone (or better yet, converting them to the faith!) can be done with similar effort. 

That said, one of the most fun games I’ve ever played was a one-shot that was a Cleric, a Rogue, a Oracle and a (my) Paladin. The Rogue was the Paladin’s dapper manservant, and I was full blown exterminatus, in the name of god, Inquisition-style character. 

But I had worked that out with the rest of the party so we ALL were full blown DEUS VULT (Save the Rogue, who was, as said before a dapper manservant and the dryest wisecracker I’ve ever seen played)and the whole short campaign was literally us roflstomping around for our shared God and nuking heretics. 

Honestly, the same can go for any character with special “dietary” restrictions. Druids, certain builds of Cleric, Witches, many Barbarians; it sometimes is a good idea to confer with the party and make sure you aren’t throwing a character that will heavily stall the story, and instead shelve the idea for later. 

[adventurers-guide]

I've never played D&D before but I've listened to some podcasted games like Adventure Zone and Heroes And Halfwits. I don't really have anyone to play with either so I'm considering joining an Adventurer's League at my local game shop and wanted to know what to expect and what I might need to come prepared. Like I probably need dice obviously lol. But would joining cost anything? Would I need to bring at least a Player's Handbook or can I have a PDF of the basic rules on my phone and use that?

http://dnd.wizards.com/playevents/organized-play

It appears all you need is the Player’s Handbook. I’ve never actually done an official Adventurer’s League, but if it’s anything like the adhoc games I’ve been to, you build a character and show up to the event. It shouldn’t cost anything, but some game stores do charge to use their tables, keep that in mind. 

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Hey Kas, awesome to see you opening up an RPG-themed blog. I wanted to ask something. I'm writing up a homebrew campaign for my family (we do DnD over the holidays) and wanted to know if there were any major pitfalls I should avoid? Particularly I'm worried about balancing the encounters for them (3 players). They aren't particularly experienced, and aren't die-hard RPG-ers. I already have 2 "sessions" mapped out (or as mapped out as they can be considering how DnD can go).

I’d suggest, at least for the first few encounters, adding a NPC that can sort of show them the ropes (basically make a tutorial level). 

You can get rid of the NPC in a variety of ways, depending on situation (from “hey I got bigger fish to fry, you all seem like you got this, go for it” all the way to *NPC has been obliterated by a nasty trap/monster*).

Either way, help them build their characters if you already haven’t and link them together in an interesting way so they don’t have to deal with the “first session awkwardness” thing. 

From there, since it sounds like it may be a short adventure, lean HEAVILY on theme. Good theming is EVERYTHING for short adventures.

Other than that, avoid giving them complicated classes or builds (spellcasters, grapplers, etc) and try to help them build characters around a theme or archetype they choose. A lot of new fellows tend to build in a haphazard way, because they don’t quite know what they want and the result is sort of…mushy. 

One thing I’ve found is INCREDIBLY useful is having them each write three character concepts, with the race, general occupation, goal, and major flaw on a scrap of paper, toss them all into a hat, and draw from the hat for character building. (This is actually great for new and experienced players alike, it keeps people on their toes and prevents them from just “doing the usual”). 

From a technical aspect of encounter design; always have more than one solution. Ideally have, like, five minimum. Make the first set of traps or dangers nonlethal but very embarrassing, and don’t be afraid to fudge it a bit. 

Also, don’t forget that you can capture PCs, instead of outright killing them. Baddies may prefer to ransom heroes with noble bloodlines, and interrogate others to find out who sent them, etc. 

[adventurers-guide]

ANOTHER side to this (sorry, Paladins are a THING), is you can make them be “bound.”

They may HATE that they have the rules they do, that it ties them up and prevents them from solving a problem more effectively. But they swore and their oath is their bond, and they’d rather die than break it. 

What's the best way to play as a Paladin, especially a novice one? How do you straddle the line between being the conscience of the party and an uptight stick-in-the-mud?

It helps to have at least one character in the party that your character “knows” (ie, has some kind of connection to or relationship with).

Make it clear the Paladin has a redline/EXTERMINATUS setting that you reserve for very specific things and anyone who goes there gets the Holy Light to the face via high velocity purified steel. 

A good fellow player will know how to dance on the borderline of that, risking getting whomp’d by the “Stick of a Very Cross God,” and it’s your job to show (a moderate amount of) restraint when dealing with it and understand they’re pushing the boundaries to see what reaction occurs.

It also helps to start a bit overly stuck-up and loosen on the party as the game progresses, especially if the GM gives you a chance to show you’re only doing it for your buddies, and you still have Very Firm Convictions ™.

Also, as per my previous post, work with your party at character generation. Let them know you are interested in playing a Paladin, and work out where they’re going to land on both the alignment (if applicable) and attitude matrices so you aren’t doomed to fail. Honestly it REALLY helps if you can convince someone to be your cousin, sibling, long suffering uncle, etc. They can moderate your character and translate Paladin Speak to Normal People Speak. 

Otherwise, remember a Paladin is still a person. A very faithful person who has a firm belief in their worldview, but probably a person who’d rather not stab someone and clean the gore off their nice white tabard and do all the possible legal paperwork if imprisoning someone (or better yet, converting them to the faith!) can be done with similar effort. 

That said, one of the most fun games I’ve ever played was a one-shot that was a Cleric, a Rogue, a Oracle and a (my) Paladin. The Rogue was the Paladin’s dapper manservant, and I was full blown exterminatus, in the name of god, Inquisition-style character. 

But I had worked that out with the rest of the party so we ALL were full blown DEUS VULT (Save the Rogue, who was, as said before a dapper manservant and the dryest wisecracker I’ve ever seen played)and the whole short campaign was literally us roflstomping around for our shared God and nuking heretics. 

Honestly, the same can go for any character with special “dietary” restrictions. Druids, certain builds of Cleric, Witches, many Barbarians; it sometimes is a good idea to confer with the party and make sure you aren’t throwing a character that will heavily stall the story, and instead shelve the idea for later. 

[adventurers-guide]

I like the term Fellow for “other players.” It seems to be both within the spirit of most games (being fantasy, and a subtle nod to Tolkien) and also implies that the association is voluntary, even if the interaction between characters is antagonistic. 

I think I’ll be using it from here on out. 

[adventurers-guide]

An aside note; I tend to avoid purposely flanderizing a character concept; as fun as it is to make a silly-billy Paladin who reacts to everything as HERESY, it gets boring really quickly. 

Paladins, as noted above are very faithful, ideal-driven characters, and their motivations, actions, and reactions should be focused around that. 

That does mean maybe making them appear a bit immature or having a simple worldview; there’s no harm in that and it gives them a lot of room for growth, but be sure to work it out with your fellows so at least some of them are on board with dealing with someone whose initial response to danger is to shout about the glory of god and then stab things.

Also, DON’T NEGLECT doubt. Especially for a young paladin. There’s going to be a point where they just give up for a week and sin and fuck up and hate everything and agree that hey maybe their god is a dickhead, and then have to spend a small part of the game trying to repent for their sins and maybe dragging a fellow along to church for a bit. 

What's the best way to play as a Paladin, especially a novice one? How do you straddle the line between being the conscience of the party and an uptight stick-in-the-mud?

It helps to have at least one character in the party that your character “knows” (ie, has some kind of connection to or relationship with).

Make it clear the Paladin has a redline/EXTERMINATUS setting that you reserve for very specific things and anyone who goes there gets the Holy Light to the face via high velocity purified steel. 

A good fellow player will know how to dance on the borderline of that, risking getting whomp’d by the “Stick of a Very Cross God,” and it’s your job to show (a moderate amount of) restraint when dealing with it and understand they’re pushing the boundaries to see what reaction occurs.

It also helps to start a bit overly stuck-up and loosen on the party as the game progresses, especially if the GM gives you a chance to show you’re only doing it for your buddies, and you still have Very Firm Convictions ™.

Also, as per my previous post, work with your party at character generation. Let them know you are interested in playing a Paladin, and work out where they’re going to land on both the alignment (if applicable) and attitude matrices so you aren’t doomed to fail. Honestly it REALLY helps if you can convince someone to be your cousin, sibling, long suffering uncle, etc. They can moderate your character and translate Paladin Speak to Normal People Speak. 

Otherwise, remember a Paladin is still a person. A very faithful person who has a firm belief in their worldview, but probably a person who’d rather not stab someone and clean the gore off their nice white tabard and do all the possible legal paperwork if imprisoning someone (or better yet, converting them to the faith!) can be done with similar effort. 

That said, one of the most fun games I’ve ever played was a one-shot that was a Cleric, a Rogue, a Oracle and a (my) Paladin. The Rogue was the Paladin’s dapper manservant, and I was full blown exterminatus, in the name of god, Inquisition-style character. 

But I had worked that out with the rest of the party so we ALL were full blown DEUS VULT (Save the Rogue, who was, as said before a dapper manservant and the dryest wisecracker I’ve ever seen played)and the whole short campaign was literally us roflstomping around for our shared God and nuking heretics. 

Honestly, the same can go for any character with special “dietary” restrictions. Druids, certain builds of Cleric, Witches, many Barbarians; it sometimes is a good idea to confer with the party and make sure you aren’t throwing a character that will heavily stall the story, and instead shelve the idea for later. 

[adventurers-guide]

What's the best way to play as a Paladin, especially a novice one? How do you straddle the line between being the conscience of the party and an uptight stick-in-the-mud?

It helps to have at least one character in the party that your character “knows” (ie, has some kind of connection to or relationship with).

Make it clear the Paladin has a redline/EXTERMINATUS setting that you reserve for very specific things and anyone who goes there gets the Holy Light to the face via high velocity purified steel. 

A good fellow player will know how to dance on the borderline of that, risking getting whomp’d by the “Stick of a Very Cross God,” and it’s your job to show (a moderate amount of) restraint when dealing with it and understand they’re pushing the boundaries to see what reaction occurs.

It also helps to start a bit overly stuck-up and loosen on the party as the game progresses, especially if the GM gives you a chance to show you’re only doing it for your buddies, and you still have Very Firm Convictions (TM).

Also, as per my previous post, work with your party at character generation. Let them know you are interested in playing a Paladin, and work out where they’re going to land on both the alignment (if applicable) and attitude matrices so you aren’t doomed to fail. Honestly it REALLY helps if you can convince someone to be your cousin, sibling, long suffering uncle, etc. They can moderate your character and translate Paladin Speak to Normal People Speak. 

Otherwise, remember a Paladin is still a person. A very faithful person who has a firm belief in their worldview, but probably a person who’d rather not stab someone and clean the gore off their nice white tabard and do all the possible legal paperwork if imprisoning someone (or better yet, converting them to the faith!) can be done with similar effort. 

That said, one of the most fun games I’ve ever played was a one-shot that was a Cleric, a Rogue, a Oracle and a (my) Paladin. The Rogue was the Paladin’s dapper manservant, and I was full blown exterminatus, in the name of god, Inquisition-style character. 

But I had worked that out with the rest of the party so we ALL were full blown DEUS VULT (Save the Rogue, who was, as said before a dapper manservant and the dryest wisecracker I’ve ever seen played)and the whole short campaign was literally us roflstomping around for our shared God and nuking heretics. 

Honestly, the same can go for any character with special “dietary” restrictions. Druids, certain builds of Cleric, Witches, many Barbarians; it sometimes is a good idea to confer with the party and make sure you aren’t throwing a character that will heavily stall the story, and instead shelve the idea for later. 

[adventurers-guide]

Let's get this blog started off right! As a DM what advice do you have for new player or new group etiquette?

For COMPLETELY new players;

First the negatives, the DONTs.

Please do not play a spellcaster. It’s not just for the other people’s sake, but spellcasters and other complex classes are difficult to learn and introduce many things at once which you may not be ready for. Pick a class or build that is not exceedingly complex, you can always retire your hero (heroic last stand anyone?) later if you feel confident in building a new one. That said, if you read the build/class sheet or rules and understand them, go for it.

Don’t be afraid of accents. Every person I know has one accent they can do, even if it’s goofy or barely passable. USE it. You WILL get better at it!

Don’t ask the GM for permission to do stuff, (but maybe ask the Players). Instead of asking if you CAN do something, it may be wise to ask the over-under odds; use your skills and stats and rolls to size up the situation and act based on that information. If you’re considering something that might disrupt a situation, try to pass a hand gesture to your allies in-character. Get them in on the act. Teamwork makes the dream work.

Don’t expect to be some super-powerful badass. You’re new to a system, setting or group, you will likely have some growing pains to work out. If you see some real issues later on, discuss retraining or retiring the character with the GM. 

Don’t distract yourself! Especially true of online games, but IRL games, too; don’t split your attention if you don’t absolutely have to. 

Now the DO’s

BE ON TIME.

BE CONSISTENT.

Be impressed by other character’s actions. Encourage them to do badass stuff. They’re your allies (hopefully) and that means recognizing when they kick butt, even if it’s begrudgingly.

Have a character goal. A big one, ideally. One that requires teamwork and lots of questing. Small goals are for Gnome Futbol.

Work with a concept FIRST. what kind of character do you want to be? what job dot hey have? How do they do it? Get those figured in roughly before anything else!

Work WITH your GM in building a character. Pitch your idea and get their feedback, that way you have a better idea of what to expect, and sometimes they may even give you some storyline importance or other gubbins. Don’t necessarily expect it, but it does happen.

Work WITH your fellow players! Build a companion character for another player (sibling, comrade, employee, etc); it sets up a unique interaction dynamic and gives you an instant ally.

Work out an easy gesture for talking in-character and in languages. This will help prevent confusion as to what things are being said and being done.

For New GROUPS;

Have the rules on hand, but don’t sweat finding the exact tidbit.

Remember rule zero (the rules are a guideline)

Rolls only count on the battle mat.

Rolls on the battle mat ALWAYS count.

Good Players never fudge your dice.

Good GMs never fudge dice to hurt a PC.

[adventurers-guide]

RPG Ideas:The Fellow Scoundrel

A difficult thing for many, is how a person can play a scoundrel, a thief and rogue, a trickster of great guile, and not do so by just robbing your compatriots blind.

I’ve seen characters aplenty with “kleptomaniac” on their sheets and I’ve seen them receive an axe to the face repeatedly.

Few adventurers have the mirth or the time to play a game of whodunnit and if you look like a duck, quack like a duck, and the breadcrumbs all go missing, the concerned party may just end up having Foie Gras instead.

But, of course there are much cleverer, more true-to-word ways of being such a scoundrelous low-life.

I’ll do all I can to show them down below, as a person who loves playing a bit of a cad, take these not as merely suggestions from a GM, but from a player who truly has tried these and has found they work amazingly.

Keep in mind, these are my suggestions, specifically for the cad/scoundrel/dashing rogue, and not necessarily for a more brutal bandit (though they can be cribbed for them as well!)

Appearance

Ask yourself this. There are two men, of equal build. The first is a hunched over thing, wearing dark clothing and leather apparently taken from the fetish section of a pirate supply closet. the second is standing upright, smiling respectfully, a tunic and vest of muted, but common color, maybe a cap with a garish, but not uncommon, feather in it.

Which will the city guard question when the crown jewels go missing?

A vest has many pockets to hide many tools, a purse reinforced with maille and iron wire is an excellent protection against your own ilk, and makes a damn good garotte in a pinch. A fiddle may sound a bit odd when a hidden compartment is added to it, but it also means that you can pick it up and play for a few coins, and schmooze your way into some courts with a wink and a smile. A cap can have razors, lockpicks, invisible ink with feather quill; the possibilities are endless as they are open for your creative trickery. One personal favorite is to hide a full wig inside a character’s loose, but somewhat garish cap. One rounded corner, and a toss of the cap onto a roof (maybe paired with a reversible cloak or vest) and the character has “vanished” right before the eyes of everyone.

Essentially, when things go belly up, you should be the one nobody suspects, and your opponents should know you are armed right around the third or fourth time you’ve stabbed them.

Not to say there isn’t time for pageantry or dark robes; you should have an assortment of garb for each occasion; feel free to “salvage” the clothes of fallen enemies, especially ones you’ve successfully garotted or sapped (no blood to clean off; a reminder, bring soap, washing soda and if you can afford it, some perfume or cologne).

Always have a backup knife. When you are strip-searched, they should need to take an inordinate amount of time and care to check you, and always miss at least one lock-pick and small razor. Where you hide them is up to you (depending on healing magicks, the solution may be to just make a very small bone case and pop them into your abdominal cavity with help of the cleric).

Don’t be afraid of unconventional or unusual weapons. It may seem odd for some for a gentleman scoundrel to be hefting a longbow, but you tell me which you’d prefer, the enemy far away and full of holes or near you, angry, armed, and facing your knife? Equally, just because a character is a scoundrel doesn’t mean they will only have small knives or dastardly weapons at their hands, and a sap, truncheon, rapier, smallsword, or really, REALLY big knife are all good ways to make quick work of a foe, and interrogate the ones left behind.

Interactions with PC’s/NPC’s

When you meet a new character, be it PC or NPC, you should be doing all you can to size them up. What are they good at, what are they bad at, what are they afraid of. You, as the scoundrel, should know the name of a character’s pet dog before they know your name, and they shouldn’t suspect a thing from you. They shouldn’t know what your skillset is, beyond the vague (examples include “I’m good enough at staying out of trouble, and keeping others out of it as well.”) and anything about you should be on a strictly need to know basis. Not that you should appear cagey; make it clear you have nothing to hide as you lie through your teeth about the scars on your wrists (”A bad accident with ropes as a dock hand. Heaven forbid I nearly drowned when that crate went under!” despite them being from failed attempts at escaping manacles) or other ancillaries. If they catch you in a lie, press them on why it matters; especially if they’ve got their own skeletons to hide.

Trust should be earned. Keep a ledger of who has helped you and by how much. Anyone who you trust, you don’t steal from, you steal for.

If that trust is broken, it isn’t a reset to square one, it’s a cliff they jumped off of. From then on, it’s lie, cheat, lie, steal.

If you are a greedy lout, it only makes sense that the things you like the most are the things which take care of you, and in turn are the things you take care of. Treat your allies like prized possessions, your terms of endearment may sound callous to outsiders (and new players) but party veterans will see the twisted sense in it.

Never steal from someone, or cheat them, unless you are sure you can kill them with your offhand, or that you will never see them again. It’s bad business sense to go nicking silver from the meat-shield, especially if it’s your meatshield.

If you do any sneaky skullduggery with your allies, it shouldn’t be -stealing- from them, but instead -sneaking items onto their person-. Caltrops are heavy. The cleric will never notice them, compared to the weight of their plate armor and holy symbol and whatever else they may lug, but will be damn thankful when you rummage into her pack mid-cart chase to ruin the hooves of the encroaching assailants. Same goes for phials of antivenom, chalk, pitons, rope, other things. They -might- notice, but what will they do, complain that you “gave them some useful items?” I think not. Meanwhile you are able to skate by without much weight on your shoulders save for what you need in the moment.

Interactions With The Environ

Any rogue/thief/person of questionable means will work hard to have a place to rest that is secure.

That often means seeking out people in the local townsfolk “in the know” and possibly paying them off for a secure place for their party. Do so quietly. Slip away and let your GM know what’s up, what you’re up to, and pop back in with maybe provisions and the place to rest secured.

Your second step, in any large town or city, is to find a fence (to sell stolen goods), find a cleaner (to take care of any bodies), and find at least three to seven contacts who can feed you information on the city’s politics and happenings. You are the webmaster, laid in the center and these people are your strings, to manipulate and listen to. The party should never know about the extent of your connections; only to have a vague sense of them and that, if a problem arises, you will begrudgingly “pull a few strings”. The extent of your network should always be a surprise to everyone but yourself and the GM.

Bring twine and bells, preferably ones you can somehow muffle when in a pack, along with door and window jams (bits of either pipe or wood will do, jam windows from opening and quietly brace the door). Secure the place your allies(posessions) rest so that you don’t risk someone hurting them, or worse, you.

If they press you on your knowledge of such, offhandedly make a joke about always needing more time in the brothel than what coin can buy.

Check for tracks on the road, especially those that veer from the road itself. These can be ambushes in wait, marks of others who have been ambushed and run off the road, or better yet, fools who went off the trail and may pay handsomely for rescue.

Keep a handful of ball bearings, or a marbles, on hand. They’re almost a pointless thing in combat, to be sure, but they are useful for seeing if a hallway has an…unusual slope to it, among other tricky uses (slingshotting windows to distract guards, tossing them at allies from above to signal you’ve stolen the goods and are on your way out, etc). Equally, a hand crossbow is mostly a backup in combat, but adding a bit of twine lets you safely check an entire room for tripwires with one carefully placed shot, all from the safety of an adjacent room. The twine and bolt are rarely heavy enough on their own to trigger a tripwire (say so aloud before you fire, to make sure the GM understands the logic) but they will hang over a tripwire, showing it’s location much more clearly. (This is a great reason to have vibrantly colored twine, separate from any twine used for tripwires of your own).

Motivations

Money, fame, fortune, sex, redemption from past deeds; all these make good motivations, as much as more noble callings. Perhaps a the hero seeks absolution from crimes they’ve done for another client, perhaps they were betrayed and want revenge, perhaps these fool adventurers are just a stepping stone on the way to sliding a knife into the king and…other things into the queen. Keep those goals in mind, and remember always to keep them close to the vest, save for those you can trust. Or, flip the script and joke about them all day until nobody knows if you’re serious or not, until they realize how serious you are.

Equally, it may be that the scoundrel is just -bored-; insufferably so. They’ve tasted all they can of their home, maybe of many towns, and nothing interests them, so why not try a bit of the old daring-do? Their aversion to boredom may come off as practically suicidal for more level-headed or honor-bound characters, but you bet your bacon the barbarians, berzerkers, and maybe even some of the more fanatical clerics will lean alongside and raise their mugs in agreement.

Either way, the motivation will flavor everything you do, from how you shake someone’s hand, to which side of the road you walk on. Don’t be afraid to be particular with your mannerisms; but also don’t be obtuse in mentioning them repeatedly, unless they are relevant. A useful thing is to send the GM a “Habits” list; things that your character does on the regular so they know and so you won’t have to deal with a game of “nu-uh-uh-huh” when the nitty becomes gritty.

Conclusion

All of this, again, are just mere suggestions, from a fellow cad, scoundrel, and bit of a cheat. Being a sneaky scalawag doesn’t mean stealing everything at every opportunity; it means knowing which things to steal, and how to make others give them to you, be that by force, deceit, or a quietly worked lock and too much free ale for the guards the night before.

[adventurers-guide]

About

This is a side-blog of @kasaron, a page to discuss and dispense advice on how to deal with less-than-optimal situations in tabletop games (or in any roleplaying!) in clever, and some might say dastardly ways.

I proffer no guarantee or warranty in regards of this advice; you do anything I suggest here at your own risk. 

Always remember, tabletop games are meant to be collaborative storytelling efforts, even if that story is “we found the goblins and killed the goblins.”

And sometimes, the best solution really is to just tie someone to a tree and leave them there.