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[alyshiba]

Recently I read a post were a user on Reddit was talking about this tale, and now it reflected the three sorrengail siblings, and I couldn't help but disagreeing with this.

There is a bunch of reasons why I think that theory is wrong, the main one being that the only actual similarity between the two sets of sibling is Violet and "the brother who made the skies surrender its power”. None of the other bonded a griffin, and as far as we know none of them is venin.

So, what we know about this story is this:

one brother bonded a dragon, one brother a griffin, and when the last one grew jealous he started drawing directly from the source.

I think we should consider this story exactly like that, a story, a fable and not take it too literallly.

Stop thinking for a second about this brothers has people, and consider them as figure of speech (maybe to pass down more erasily even to children the story of the continent)

So what if the three brothers were the nations that make up the continent? Because if you look at the story from this perspective, then you do have three "brother" who have the same characteristic as the ones in the story:

Navarre is the brother who bonded dragons;

Poromiel is the brother who bonded griffins;

The Barrens is the brother who got jealous and turned venin;

And I promise that if you look at the hints scattered inside the books you'll see that:

1. Dragons are endemic to the territories that make up Navarre. Even the original hatching grounds are located inside what is now Navarre (suspiciously close to the border of the wards.. that's another theory though);

2. Griffins are endemic to Poromiel, their "hatching grounds" (not sure we can use the same terminology) is in the area where Cliffsbane academy is/was (we learn that when the griffin riders share their process of entering the college);

3. The Barrens have no mythical / magical creatures that we know off.

If you think about it, at one point in history Poromielians (how are they called lol ??) and Navarrians bonded mythical / magical creatures that gave them magic, on top of any military or economical advantages they might had. It is understandable how the people of the Barrens might have felt threatened and searched for alternatives to the newfound magic of their neighbors.

We then know that the Venins originated from the Barrens, so that's the solution they found.

The story also tells us that:

The younger brother made the skies surrender its greatest power and thus vanquished his jealous brother at a great and terrible price.

Which again parallels the fact that Navarre unified, and was created as a nation, only after the war against the Venins 650 yars ago, therefore it makes sense to be reffered as the younger brother.

We then circle around and go back to Violet: since, if we follow this theory, it was a dragon rider who made the skies surrender its power and defeated its jelous sibling at a grat and terrible price.

[alyshiba]

IRON FLAME CHAPTER BREAKDOWN 7 to 9

Chapters 1 - 3 - Chapters 4 - 6

This is the third part of this wierd book-club reading thing, so you can comment-reblog and add your thought, opinions, theories etc.

I'd like to remind you of what you'll find under the cut:

Part 1 will be readable by everyone who is caught up with Iron Flame until chapter 9;

Part 2 of the post will be dedicated to those who have finished the book (and/or are re-reading it) as it will contain spoilers for the entirety of IF.

We start strong with the epigraph to chapter 7 (page 53), in which we're, in short, told that every time a scribe doesn't record and file the requests of texts will be expelled from the quadrant.

There's two point I'd like to make about this quote:

In FW Jesinia says she didn't find any book by the title of "Fabels of the Barrens", or any similar thought. So either that book, that we know exists because Violet has it, has never been in the archives, or it was the only copy present and was stolen.

Put your tin foil hat on now: Let's say Papa Sorrengail is an happy scribe who doesn't know about conspirations and has never doubted the scribes, leadership etc. Then let's imagine he comes across a book he has never seen before, files his request (or has someone else doing that for him) reads it... and has the epiphany about the whole venin / Navarre / Poromiel war, and then starts researching more and more in that field. Wouldn't someone high up notice his wierd interests in books?

I'm starting to see a pattern here.

We then glide to chapter 8. From pages 59 to 65 we have parapet. here is noteworthy that we are given the name of three characters: Aaric, Sloane and Jory Buell. Rebecca only introduces people that are important, so.. We also get Jack Barlowe Junior, whose name we're not given. All in all these are the new character that we'll likely see again.

Page 71 is where we know that Varrish also knows about Resson, since Solas (his dragon) killed Ciaran.. amogst others.

Time for the tin foil hat again. The epigraph to chapter 9 is a quote from Kaori, here we learn that the vale behind Basgiath was the original hacthing grounds for the green dragons, and that they "offered it up for the good of dragon kind".

From what we know the vale is the only place where dragons hatch. Dragons of all colors (since Andarna is clearly not green), therefore when the greens "offered their ancestral hatching grounds" it means that they "allowed" (we don't know how it works) the other breeds to hatch there. Why? What happened to the other hatching grounds? In the epigraph of chapter 2 we learned that Aretia held the original hatching grounds for the blacks... it's implied that no dragons are hatching there now.

So what if the hatching grounds were somewhat essential to building the wards ?

We then get another brick in the Papa Sorrengail was-killed-by-leadership wall: in page 77 Violet reminds us that she was handpick by Markham to sucseed him in the scribe quadrant. Wouldn't it be logical for him to keep the "favourite" child of Papa Sorrengail (if he really came across some knowledge that got him killed), the one that was constantly glued to her father, close to make sure daddy didn't pass some unwanted knowledge?

At last, we get an update on the map (I'm trying to keep track of the attacks by writing on the flags the number of the chapter they are mentioned in):

The green dragon icon represent the og green hatching grounds;

The white dragon icon the hatching grounds in the vale, where now seemigly all of the dragons breeds hatch;

We have two new flags: athebyne and Sipene were attacked (the second location is not precise as there is no map with Sipene on it).

The ending of chapter 9 ( page 84 ) is where things get really interesting: here we have Jack Barlowe Junior (remember parapet?) killing Nadine because he thought she was Violet... And you'll have to read the next post to find out why lol

From here on out there will be spoilers for the entirety of the book:

Chapter 7 - page 52: there's another thing interesting here: both Rhiannon and Violet repeat that "they're never been second years before", and it's a phrase that (if I remember correctly) we come across again in the book. This is making me think that maybe, after everything that happens in this book, leadership will not allow the rebellious rider to graduate. My guess is that in book 4 they will either find out that they'll have to repeat the year, if not already doing so.

Chapter 8 - Page 69: here is the infamous quote about Cath's (Dain dragon) bad breath. I don't know if it means that they're evil or not.. make of that what you will.

Chapter 9 - Page 73: if you look at the locations, you'll start to see that the greens hatching grounds is where the wardstone is: in the center of the wards, then the black would be kind of on the southern borders of the wards, while the orange one (we'll get there in a few chapter) is in the south east border... I think that when the wards were made they could expand them only where dragons hatching grounds are. I would dare say that should we venture to the other hatching grounds we might find more wardstones, since isn't it odd that out of the two hatching gounds we fins both have a wardstone ?

In the same page (and page 75) we get also the first mention of Violet's nightmares. We should notice that she mentions having nightmares every night since Xaden left, that they are about Venins - Liam's death, but that they are not vivid, there's no talking or interacting with the sage... yet.

[alyshiba]

IRON FLAME CHAPTER BREAKDOWN from 4 to 6

Chap. 1 - 3 here

As I said in the introduction of the first post, this a bit as a book-club reading, so you can comment-reblog and add your thought, opinions, theories etc..

Under the cut there will be spoiler for IF, obviously

At the very beginning of chapter 4 (page 33), during the surprise retourn we have the confrontation between Xaden, Violet and Leadership. In this interaction it's obvious that wathever plan Colonel Aetos had, Lillith was not part of.

I would dare say that the Navarrian techology (as Brennan says in chapter 2) used to lure the Venin in Resson is clearly something Colonel Aetos know about, if he's not behind it's creation. But Lillith Sorreingail knew nothing about it. The one interaction that stood out for me was the very last of chapter 5, in page 47, where Xaden and Violet are confronted by Colonel Aetos. At the end of their dialogue he says something that I found interesting:

Colonel Aetos nods, then turn his gaze to mine. "You know, I was worried about our earlier conversation until I remember something." "And what is that?" Xaden asks, clearly losing patience. "Secrets make for poor leverage. They die with the people who keep them"

I found it very interesting that he issue that threat directly to Violet, and that he used the word "rememebered".. This keeps feeding my theory that Papa Sorrengail was murdered by someone inside of leadership becouse he learned things he wasn't supposed to.

Other than this I didn't find anything that stood out to me, to be honest, but of course, if you did I'd love to read about it !!

[alyshiba]

i’ve been thinking about this for a while but do you think there’s a cure to revert xaden from being venin?. On one side, i think there has to be since rebecca mentioned we haven’t gotten to book 3 but on the other hand, i wonder if xaden will turn full venin and change the trajectory of the series for a while?. I know some people believe there’s a potion out there but it feels… easy?

Spoilers down for IF

We do not have any indication of that yet. Does it mean there won't be any cure ? No, not necessarily.

Maybe the signet-blocking elisir might come in handy, with the due modification (I think that's the potion you mentioned, if not correct me), but we're in completely speculation territory.

Rebecca hinted that we will find out more about Venins in book three, so maybe then I'll be able to actually reply to your question.

At this stage I think that there will be some sort of way to "fix" Xaden, since Rebecca saied him and Violet are endgame, and that she's into happy endings.

[alyshiba]

How do you expect xaden and violet relationship to develop in the other 3 books?. Do you think they are the final couple or she’ll change li’s midway?

Rebecca sayd numerous times that she doesn't like love triangles, so as per IF i do believe that somehow Violet and Xaden are endgame.

We don't get, so far, elements that can make us think otherwise, no proofs, no evidence... everyone that says otherwise is just theoriziong at this point.

[alyshiba]

IRON FLAME CHAPTERS BREAKDOWN: 1 to 3

Since I'm re-re-reading Iron Flame, and thime annotating, I thought, why not sharing my rambling madness with everyone ?

I envision this a bit as a book-club reading, so you can comment-reblog and add your thought, opinions, theories etc..

I already have red multiple times this book, so to make thing fair to those who might be reading it now for the first time, I'll divide this post in two parts: part one will be readable by all, while the second part will feature the theories, foreshadowing, and miscellaneous that include spoilers for the events who happens later on the book.

Of course, as always under the cut there will be spoilers for Iron Flame (in this post from chapter 1 to 3)

Chapter one

In chapter one we deal with a lot of confusion, and we do not get a lot of weird quotes and informations (or at least that I noticed).

The first thing that I noticed is the name of the scribe who is quoted in the Epigraph: Cerella Nielwart. Who's surname is oddly similar to Jesinia's (Neilwart), maybe it's a typo, or not, but I found it odd, and I would like to know more about Cerella, if they're actually related to Jesinia.

In page 2 we discover that Brennan now goes with a different name (for obvious reason) with is Brennan Aisereigh. I know on the web you'll find that the surname means resurrection, which totally fits, but on the Learn Gaelic webiste you'll see that the spelling for "resurrection" is a bit different (Aiseiright, with an extra I). Maybe again it's a typo, or maybe not idk.

In page 3 Violet tells us two very interesting pieces of information: the first is that Riorson house has been sieged 3 times (that she knows of), one of them being ofc during Fen's rebellion. It would be interesting to know when the other two sieges happened and who was on either side. Then we get a reminder that the rebellion relic that the marked one carry masks them from Melgren's signet. I don't know Codagh, but it's odd for one dragon to dimish the power of their rider, no ?

In pages 4 to 8 we get the first glimpse at the Revolution's leadership. During the first read I found it a bit confusing to make sense of who they are and how many are present, so I'll bullet-point them for you:

Major Ferrish (whom Xaden is talking to), he's the Hawk-Nose that responds to Xaden's question. He's described as "an older man with an eyepatch and hawkish nose [...], tuft of thinning grey hair [...] lightly tanned, weathered skin, his jowls hanging, [...] thick hands and a round belly."

Trissa, who is described as a "petite woman with glossy black hair like a raven"

Felix (whe learn the name in page 7), who is described as "large, [...] with ebony [skin] hand tugging at his thinck silver beard"

Woman #1, described as " older woman built like a battle ax [...] with blond hair brushing past her square alabster skin."

Suri, a "brunette with olive skin and a single streak of silver in her hair", she also as a giant emerald ring.

We know from page 4 that the Assembly, which would be leadership, is composed by seven people in total, but only 5 are present in that moment ( the ones above ), so Xaden and Brennan in this moment are not part of the assembly, they must have other roles. And, we need to meet 2 more people.

All of these people are dressed in rider black, Violet notes, so it's safe to assume that they are bonded riders, with signets and all.

In page 8 we also get an interesting line from Brennan: "Knowing that she [Violet] is bonded to Tairn, whose bonds get deeper with each rider and whose previous bond was already so strong that Naolin's death nearly killed him?" So, from this line we know that the rebellion knows that Naolin is dead, just as leadership, and that either Brennan thinks this as well, or is lying about it.

Chapter 2

In this chapter we get a lot more informations, most of which are summarized in a map I made:

The first noteworthy lines are in the epigraph: we learn here that above Riorson House lies the original hatching grounds of the black dragons line from with Tairn and Codagh descend. The first thing we can assume is that Riorson House, and Aretia, sounds now a lot like Basgiath, with a fortress and a vale with hatching grounds and all. So it made me wander if there might be more places like these around the continent. In this line we are also given the name of the family line of both Codagh and Tairn: Dubhmadinn, which is a composite word of 2 scottish gaelic terms: Dubh (black, blackness, darkness, pupil of the eye, ink, dark, sad) and Madainn (moarning).

We then get to the first weird thing we encounter, in page 11 Violet spots "a rune shaped scar or his [Brennan] hand", we then cut to Tairn saying that he will no longer speak of his former rider and that "Naolin didn't fail, but that it cost him everything". I think Naolin is dead. I mean, at the end of FW Tairn promised to always be truthfull to Violet, so I don't think he would hide this from her. But the fact that he died doesn't mean he couldn't have turned Venin. Maybe to save Brennan he channeled from the source, and then either he was killed or he died from the power usage (maybe Tairn killed him to sewer the bond).. Either way I don't think he'll come back in the present. In this scenario it would be possible that the rune on Brennan's hand would be some sort of protection, something that prevents him from tapping in the source, or using the venin power siphoned in his body from Naolin.

So far one of the most interesting information we get in chapter 2 are from pages 12 to 14.

The first line of information we get is that Dragons used to live in what is now called the Barrens, until General Dramor (he's the villain who faught against the first 6 riders) ruined the land in the Great War. It is safe to assume that General Daramor was a Venin, since we know the first 6 fought them. And that if dragons lived in the Barrens, maybe there was an hatching ground there as well ?

We then get an updated, real, situation of the continent by Brennan. I don't know about you, but I need to visualize what I'm reading, expecially if it involves battles, travels etc. So here's a map with the current situation which I'll update every time we get more news.

Here's what you need to know to read it:

Castle Icon = Basgiath;

Dragon Icon(s) = Dragons og hatching grounds, every color of dragon icon correspond with the dragon breed;

Light Blue stain = Navarre's wards (which does not cover Aretia & Tyrrendor);

Small orange flags = uncofirmed locations of most recent venin attacks;

BIG orage flags = most recent venin attacks in confirmed locations;

Small red Flags = old venin attack in non confirmed locations.

Red Stain = Venin territory

In this map you notice, like Violet does, that the Venin are moving towards Navarre and following the stonewater river (the rivers close to Braewic provice), and that both Resson and what we can assume is Jahna (from Brennans lines) are on almost the opposite side. We also learn from Brennan that in both of those locations were found lures, that were of Navarrian craftmaship.

So, is someone in Navarre working with, or exploit the Venin ?

Brennan then tells us that the hatching ground of Basgiath have enough energy to sustain the venins for decades, so that appears to be their short time goal.

Violet then reminds us in pages 14 - 15 that 400 years ago (so 250 years after the unification & og battle against Venin) the scribes (and the ones who ordered them to) deleted every knowledge of Venins (& who knows what else) from public records. It is interesting to note that it happend way after the actual battle against Venin happened, in a moment where Navarrian should have felt protected and forgot about the monsters they faught. Why 400 years ago ? Why not immediately after the unification ? What happend that pushed an entire generation of leadership to delete history ?

Then I'll just remind you that we know it happened 400 y.ago because Violet's dad wrote it a note directet to Vi that he hid in the "fables of the Barrens".

The last two important pieces of informations we get in page 15 are: Brennan telling us that "he thought dragons were the only key to power wards" (weird, is there something else that can be used to power up the wards?) and that "something killed the venin off 650 years ago", which is debatable, considering that there are still Venins I'm starting to think that they just weren't defeated, but just banished, somehow. Which then makes me wonder why are they back now?

In page 17 we close off the chapter with the revelation that Sgaeyl kind of hates Brennan. Maybe she senses the Venin power used to revive him (to connect back with the Naolin channeled from the source to bring Brennan back). Note that Brennan has been around Sgaeyl since Xaden bonded her, so roughly 3 yars ago, and 3 years after his resurecction.

From here on there are spoilers for the rest of the book.

Chapter 1 - page 2: Considering the Rune talk we get later on, I think it's obvious that the reason why the marked ones are masked from Melgren's signet is the rune Liams (and Sloanes) mom made rather then Codaghs doing. It would also give leadership one more reason not to teach runes at Basgiath, I mean, one non-dragon-related power just countered what's considered the strongest signet ever. If I were in Melgren's shoes I wouldn't want that knowledge around.

Chapter 2 - pages 12 to 14: Considering that the same lures were found in Basgiath before and during the battle, it is kind of obvious that at least someone inside of Navarrian leadership is working with the Venins, or maybe using them for some other reasons. I'm not straith up saying some is venin inside of leadership, simply becouse so far we have no evidence of it.

Then it's obvious that in Resson the lure was used to try and kill Xaden (an the marked ones), but the one in Jahna ? Maybe they needed to see if it would work? Or were there another reason?

Chapter 2 - page 15: on this re-read I stopped by this page, because we'll later learn that by using dragon power to raise the wards venins and gripphin riders can no longer wield magic. Which is debatable since in FW Jack Barlowe uses Venin power on Violet (Rebecca confirmed it in an interview, clip is here).

This bring us to two issues: there might be a way to raise a ward using gripphin (or venin) powers, which would solve the Aretia and Poromiels wards problem, or ruin us all, AND that there must be a fault in Navarre's wards if Jack channels Venin power in fourth wing, when Basgiath's wards are still strong.

In Chapter 2 - Page 17 we also get a very important reminder: the poison that the Venin used on Violet @ the battle of Resson cut her off from her bond with the dragons and her powers.

Doesn't it sound familiar? How would the leadership be able to develop (we later learn that it's something they develped this year) a poison that works in the same way of another one the Venins actually have ? I mean, the only difference is in the administration...

I'm more and more convinced that the real enemy of this book are not the Venin alone, but a coalition of some of Navarrian Leadership and the Venins (if they are cooperating or using eachother I don't know).

In chapter three - page 22 Tairn gives an interesting information: " The First Six Riders were desperate to save their people when they approached the dens over six hundred years ago. Those dragons formed the first Empyrean and bonded humans only to protect their hatching grounds from venin, who where the bigger threat." From this phrase we understand that the first six bonded dragons were one from each breed (they bonded only to protect their hatching ground). So what of Andarna ? So Andarna's breed either refused to bond with a human rider, OR bonded with a rider who already had another dragon. Like Violet.

Note that we already kind of know the Venins background story: a brother bonded a dragon (the first six - or who came defore them -), a brother bonded a griffin, an another, jelous, turned to stealing from the source. The jelous brother was then vanquished by their sibling who commanded the sky to realease it's power.

We already have a lot of paralles that refers to Violet. So I find it very likely that one of the six might have bonded 2 dragons, and that it was the one who bonded two dragons.

[alyshiba]

The one interview where she talks about being a dain apologist is the overdrive one she filmed with professional book nerds, it's on youtube but i can't send you the link here! it's quite lengthy but she talks about dain quite a bit there. I'm sure you've seen the other one that she did with popverse, where she mentions how xaden can't get a POV due to his secrets and i've found it interesting that she hasn't decided if she wants to include more POV's in the upcoming books

Actually I saw the one she did with Entartainment weekly, in which she covers pretty much the same topics (which are basically are the only things she can say without spoilering book 3).

[alyshiba]

So I've been thinking about potential timelines for the next upcoming books and i'm a little bit confused. Do you think they are gonna graduate in the 3rd book or maybe she'll expand the 3rd year in the 3 and 4th book. Because once they are out of Basgiath i don't know what can happen in two full length books. The venin are already there and they are a threat but i think they can only have a ''final'' battle in the 5th one so when are they gonna graduate?

Hi Anon! Spoilers under the cut.

Your question is very interesting, and it's also something I've been thinking about since I've started to re-re-read IF.

In the first 15ish chapters I read this phrase used by Rhiannon, Violet & co sometimes: "this is the first time we've been second years". It's a very odd thing to say, no?

I believe that after everything that happens in IF (half the quadrant deserting, setting up a riders quadrant in Aretia, the battle etc).. they won't let the rebel cadets graduate. I am positive that leadership will make them repeat the year (also as a way to keep as much riders as possible in the quadrant to protect the wardstone & the vale, without having to deploy liutenants).

So yeah, I agree with your prediction: book 3 will feature their second year (again), book 4 the third year, and book 5 the actual final fight.

[alyshiba]

I saw you say that Cat was introduced for a reason and that it was interesting that RY talks alot about absolute power corrupting while Cat wants a crown.

So I guess my question is if you think Cat will end up being a bad and was introduced for that purpose?

Personally I'd be a bit sad if that was the case since I liked Cats growth during IW and was hoping we'd get more of that later, with her being an ally. I could see her butting heads with violet over xaden going vein (I mean her home is currently being destroyed by them so it'd make sense she hates them) but I'd be disappointed if RY had them stay or become worse enemies by the end.

Hi! This is the post Anon refers to. As Always, spoilers for IF under the cut

To answer you question; honetsly I don't know. Considering Rebecca seems to never mention things casually I can totally see it as a possibility. Cat was promised a "crown", power, a title, and she is still power hungry, she hasn't gone over the fact that Violet has taken it from her. It doesn't mean she must be Violet's enemy, or that they cannot become friends, but, quoting Rebecca herself: "any man in that situation would absolutely take another man to task over winning that crown.".

So yeah, I don't think Cat will stay still and nice for long.

[alyshiba]

IF spoilers//: Plus, why must it be Halden the ex, and not the other brother (the one Xaden killed)? sorry for asking this because my memory is so bad, but wouldn't have they mentioned it was violet's ex the one xaden killed?. I have to say that i have no clue if Halden or one of her exs is coming back like cat did but i'm not a big fan of that possibility ngl

Spoiler for Iron Flame under the cut

sorry for asking this because my memory is so bad, but wouldn't have they mentioned it was violet's ex the one xaden killed?

There is actually no mentions of who Violet's ex(es?) is (are?). We only know that she said one was in infantry. Periodt. Nothing more.

So we do not know when he was in the infantry quadrant, if he survived, graduated, is alive or dead... etc. The fact that he might be a royal is just pure theories and speculation (which I do not really agree btw).

I have to say that i have no clue if Halden or one of her exs is coming back like cat did but i'm not a big fan of that possibility ngl

Me too. Catriona has a purpose for being introduced as a character. A random Violet ex (whoever might be) just to have some romantic drama for the books to come no.

Should Rebecca go for this route, I only hope that she studies the character she decides to introduce and give them meaning beside being a love interest.

[alyshiba]

What are your thoughts on dain?. I’ve heard RY said she’s a dain apologist and he got better in IF so i’m afraid he might be a li in the upcoming books

Dain is a very complicated character. Spoilers for IF under the cut, as always

My mind has not settled entirely on one opinion. If I have to look at the books, and just take what's written as facts, without thiking that he may be a turncloack or a spy.. then I would say that he's just like Violet. He was born in a high raking military family, he's surely had his differeces with his parents as any child, but, like Violet, he never even once believed he was being lied to by his parent on the reality of the world situation. He thought, like Violet, that (aside from whatever opinions they had of their military parent) what he heard in battle brief, or from said parent, was the truth. End of the story.

Then your best friend, whom you've known since you were a child -and with which you're in love-, starts to get close to public-enemy-1, child of the big villain who killed her brother and tried to murder everyone (again, that's what everyone but the marked one know for a fact), you know he' wi'll try to kill her for her parentage (and Xaden thought it, from his POVS in FW -even thought he already made a pact with Lillith, which only these two knew about-) yet she doesn't listen, and you find out she's activelly betraing her country (and braking his beloved rules) to aid the same rebellion fought off by your parents 6 years ago.

What would you do if you were him?

I'd believe my father, the one who's always given me proofs (we know their forged, he doesn't) rather than, again, the child of the biggest Villain my country has faced in recent centuries and his followers.

So just the fact that he changed sides when shown that his father was the one who lied to his his entire life, is a huge thing. He's had the same arc as Violet.

I personally tend to think that he is actually a good guy, that he's really changed. Yet he betrayed Violet once, and rule-loving-Dain might do it again.

Anyhow, considering how in love Violet is with Xaden, and how still angry she is with Dain (she blaims him for Liam's death, which she has not processed yet) I don't think thare is a chance of them getting together. Plus Rebecca saied in the Verity interview that she doesn't like love triangles.

[alyshiba]

I don’t know if you have a post or something related to this but i just saw a rebecca yarros interview where she talks about how violet is the main character and she doesn’t include xaden which was a little bit weird. And it was before iron flame got released and she mentioned how she wouldn’t include xaden’s pov until he stops keeping secrets which makes me wonder if it’s because he will keep more stuff from violet or if there’s a bigger reason for it

I think you might refer to this Verity Interview, corrrect me if I'm wrong. If it is the case I wrote a post in which I broke down the most interesting pieces of information that we got from it.

how violet is the main character and she doesn’t include xaden which was a little bit weird.

Technically, until now, Violet has been the only protagonist. The center of the story, the one who's POV we see. I guess she meant it that way.

he wouldn’t include xaden’s pov until he stops keeping secrets which makes me wonder if it’s because he will keep more stuff from violet or if there’s a bigger reason for it

As per Iron Flame (spoilers under the cut)

Xaden is still keeping secrets from Violet, so I can agree that writing a Xaden POV (that is now just a bonus content or two pages to finish a book) would mean spoiling end game informations. There's clearly more that he knows about everything (probably even Vi's dad considering that he has spent 6 years with Brennan), and that we as a reader are now meant to know at this stage,

[alyshiba]

Hello!. Love your posts and answers.

I have one theory regarding the next book that i’ve seen around and i wanted to share it with you:

in IF, they mention violet ex being a prince or someone really important and i do wonder if he’s gonna appear in the next books and have a role in them. And obviously, i wonder if RY is gonna make him a thing with violet if xaden turns full venin. I think the mention of who he is, and how we couldn’t marry violet was foreshadowing of him coming back eventually but i’m dreading it a little bit

Hy there! Thanks for the compliment <3

As always, spoilers ahead for Iron Flame

When I read both books, honestly, i didn't focus my attention on any details about Violet's past relationships. But you have to consider that FW and IF are books that requires multiple re-reads to apreciate oall of the details in them.

Every source I found over the past months that mentions this theory base it on details that have more than one explanations, like:

Violets and Aarics interactions: Of course Violet will have a friendly relationship with Aaric (like Dain TBH). Lillith is a General, we could dare say Melgren's second, so of course they will be in direct contact with the royals. In the ball scene in FW you see how familiar was Lillith with King Tauri, so ofc their children will grow up knowing eachother;

One of Violet's exes is in infantry: This info is being used as proof because "a future king must be in military school and since Tauri doesn't approve of his sons being the riders quadrant, than Halden must have been in the infantry section", well.... aside from the King's second born (killed by Xaden durin threshing in their first year at Basgiath) we have no record of a prince being officially sent into Basgiath. Officialy being the key since Aaric is "undercover". So we don't know if Navarrian royalty has a tradition of sending children to war colleges or "homeschools them".

Violet is unconfortable/turned down by the propect of being "royalty" when she understands that Xaden is still unofficially the Duke of Tyrrendor: This has been used to indicate that Violet's relationship might have gone badly because she's not nobility and therefore the couple was made to break up.

Neither of this fact is proofs.. we have nothing to support this theory yet. It isn't impossible, but at the moment we can only speculate. Plus, why must it be Halden the ex, and not the other brother (the one Xaden killed)?

[alyshiba]

What are your thoughts on people thinking violet and jack are the true enemies to lovers in the series?. I never thought it made sense but i’ve seen some theories about it on reddit

Hi there! Spoilers down for Iron Flame

At the moment in the books we do not have any indication that this might be the case.

We now know that Jack was nice to Violet after his retourn only to get close to her, since the Venins want her alive. And that he's very much the same evil a-hole (if not worst) than before.

Plus there's always that Variety interview in which Rebecca states that Violet and Xaden are endgame. Of course, as she said herself, there will be conflict, there will be drama between them, but that's our couple there.

[alyshiba]

So when you read Fourth Wing, or Iron Flame, you are not reading the events as the happen in the present, but has they happened in the past. We don’t know how much time passed from the end of the story, so everyone might be dead (for years, month, centuries..).// do you think jesinia is alive and she wrote that book or maybe she's dead and we are reading what she wrote in the past?. I've heard RY has some novellas planned so i wonder where she's gonna set those up

I honestly have no idea. This way of writing the books leaves Rebecca open to a lot of possibilities, since Jesinia might have wrote down more events (=novellas), or we might also get a separate novella about what happens to her after the ends of the books.

[alyshiba]

My two cents is that xaden might turn to the evil side at a certain point and violet and him will fight against each other. It could be heartbreaking but that’s a true enemies to lovers. At the same time, i don’t see her giving up on him or not looking for a cure, even if he turns more “dark” like anakin. However, i do wish they end up together somehow even if it’s a little bit unlikely. Also there’s some theories about the texts pointing out that neither violet or xaden survived, what are your thoughts on that, if you don’t mind sharing?

Hi, thanks for the question!! Ofc spoilers ahead for Iron Flame

My two cents is that xaden might turn to the evil side at a certain point and violet and him will fight against each other.

As i briefly mention in the ask I answered yesterday, I think this is what's going to happen in book three.

At the moment we know that Xaden tapped into the source. He isn't a Venin (one of the opening quotes for a chapter in IF was an extract from a texbook of the griffin rider's school in which a professor explained the various stages of Veninism), but he definetly is in the path to potentially become one.

Considering that he's already seen as the rebellion leader, and that he has broken the pact with General Sorrengail (he was to be executed if a marked one, or more than one, rebelled), Xaden might be forced to flee/hide from Melgren and the rest of leadership. Plus his curren status as almost Venin will definetly seal his chances at reconciliation with Navarre.

I think he will either be tempted and join the dark side or he'll be wrongly perceived as evil and chased away, resulting in him falling in the hands of the Venins.

at the same time, i don’t see her giving up on him or not looking for a cure, even if he turns more “dark” like anakin. However, i do wish they end up together somehow even if it’s a little bit unlikely.

Agreed. Wether he does turn evil, or not, Violet is not the kind of character who would give up like that. She'll definetly search for the cure. And that, I think, might be the reason that convinces her to stay at Basgiath: she'll have the entire archives at her disposal, Nolon (who tried to mend Jack) and her brother (who might be a better mender that Nolon).

Also there’s some theories about the texts pointing out that neither violet or xaden survived, what are your thoughts on that, if you don’t mind sharing?

There was a very interesting post in the fourth wing subreddit yesterday, about a user who put together in one file all of the quotes used as chapter headers. I am currently editing a post about that ( if you wish to comment this reply and I'll tag you when it comes out).

The way Fourth Wing is written suggests that some characters will die. Rebecca used a specific "style" (for lack of a better term) of writing: she had one of her characters, Jesinia, translate the events in the "modern tongue". Much like George RR Martin did with Fire and Blood. So when you read Fourth Wing, or Iron Flame, you are not reading the events as the happen in the present, but has they happened in the past. We don't know how much time passed from the end of the story, so everyone might be dead (for years, month, centuries..).

[alyshiba]

Hi! I've been reading your posts about IF and FW and they are phenomenal. I don't know if you've answered this before but i have some questions/theories after IF and i would love to hear your opinion:-Since this is a 5 book series, what do you think is gonna happen in the next 3?- Do you think xaden is gonna turn completely evil and be the bad guy?- Do you think RY is going to switch up the li for Violet if xaden loses it?- any theories about dain?

Hi there! Thanks for the love <3

Of course spoilers ahead for the entirety of Iron Flame down below, read at your own peril

-Since this is a 5 book series, what do you think is gonna happen in the next 3?-

I do not know for sure, of course, but I'll do my best to give you a timeline of what I think might happen (taking in cosideration what we learned in IF and what questions remains unanswered):

Book 3: I think the book will open in the immediate aftermath of the battle of Basgiath, so we'll deal with: the death of General Sorrengail (and find out her replacement, which I think will be Aetos sr), the defection (and later retourn) of the rebels and how the rebellion leadership will deal with that. I do not think the rebel cadets will immediately reurn to college as if nothing happened, neither side can afford that, so there will be some retribution, some martial court to pass and so on and so fourth, maybe more defection towards the rebellion side. In short I think that a good portion of the book will be centered on how to deal with the current division inside of Navarre. I don't think there will be more large scale Venin battles, the wards are up now, so they cannot attack Navarre in the same way they did in IF, and I don't think Rebecca will have anyone tear down the wards again after one only book. I rather think that there will be minor battles on the borders, and that we'll have to deal a lot with Venins in diguise (like Jack Barlowe). Then there's Xaden's situation. I see this going in two directions: either it is immediately revelaed and he's cast away/isolated like Jack supposedly currently is, or they'll try to hide it as much as possible through any means necessary. Either way the majority of the book I think will also feature a spasmodic search for a cure (which might include Nolon and Brennan having to work together). I can totally see Xaden leaving Basgiath and Violet either to safety or to be tempted into Villainhood. Anyhow I'm positive Xaden will leave in book three. There's the Andarna situation: she's no longer a feathertail, and some people already know that her appearence changed (even if it's not confirmed that they know she was a baby), so we'll see how Violet & co deal with explaining her growth & change.

Book 4: Firstly I think that someway/somehow our class will graduate, whether it is at Basgiath or in Aretia. More Xaden journey into Villainhood/finding the cure. I can totally see Violet exploring the mistery of her father and Naolin (maybe even in book three), and her possibily finding clues on how to end the conflict with the Venin. I can also see her trying to find a way to ward Poromiel and the other parts of the continent. I also am sure that this is the book in which the wards will come down for the last time (probably at the end of the book).

Book 5: might be entirely centered on the final battle, a lot like A day of fallen night (Samantha Shannon) is.

I didn't go into details on the timelines of the two last books simply because we have too little details to realistically break down the storyline. I generally think that book 3 and the first half of book 4 will be more political and will have less actions. Their the books that will give us the lore and the basis for the grand finale, if I make any sense.

- Do you think xaden is gonna turn completely evil and be the bad guy?-

Hes 100% a morally grey character, one that will end the world for his love rather than save it (contrary to Violet), so I can see a Villain turn for him. I don't think he will turn completely evil Anakin-Skywalker-like, but I do think that he will walk that line. OR he will be perceived as such. If you consider that he already has a connection to the General (which I don't think is dead btw), that those were his nightmares (that Violet was seeing), I can totally see him resisting the turn, but unwillingly aiding the enemy to the point where he's wrongly perceived as the Villain (which might either have him completely turn or pretending to in order to gather informations).

- Do you think RY is going to switch up the li for Violet if xaden loses it?-

I don't see it happening. She said in an interview (if I'm remembering correctly) that Xaden and Violet are endgame. Plus with Xaden's condition they have too much of an interesitnd dynamic to ignore. I'm set to an enemies-to-lovers-to-enemies-to-lovers situation.

any theories about dain?

I saw many online, including the one where he's playing spy for his dad at the moment, but I want to re-read IF before buying in any of that. He surely got suspiciously too little attention considering his swich of allegiance.