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Microbial symbiosis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ivMSCi-Y2Q
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https://www.buzzfeed.com/audreymeehan12479/what-kind-of-cake-are-you-35823?utm_term=.eeB3GD8qv2&quiz_result=11762687_354534658#.qia28eLMPa
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questions/art
Current fascinations, thresholds,
what is the relationship bt guest and host, how do these roles manifest while sharing artwork? I am interested in how a private and ultimately public studio practice engages with the accessibility of presenting your work.
I am interested in joining ideas of hospitality to synthesize one that i can employ when thinking about how to share my work with others. Derrida's philosophy & the western domestic hospitality, impression management, and aesthetic design, social design and ritual that is created and performed among parties, meals, meetings, celebrations, holidays by the female homemaker. Is her labor one of hospitality of her own right? is it executed by means of oppression? what traditions have resulted from these circumstances? what role does her image play in hospitality? what physical gestures are performative when hosting?
I think about Derida’s idea on hospitality (to be hospitable, it is first necessary that one must have the power to host. Hospitality hence makes claims to property ownership and it also partakes in the desire to establish a form of self-identity. Furthermore, in order to be hospitable, the host must also have some kind of control over the guests. This is because if the guests take over a house through force, or by capitalizing on a hosts passivity, then the host is no longer being hospitable towards them precisely because they are no longer in control of the situation, and cannot provide for the guests. This means, for Derrida, that any attempt to behave hospitably is also always partly betrothed to the keeping of guests under control, to the closing of boundaries, to nationalism, and even to the exclusion of particular groups or ethnicities )
Many times I am distracted and feel disconnected when I am in the studio, I like to relish this comfortable place, but I am also critical of it. I hope that a productive way to engage in ideas of generosity and without becoming marxist rhetoric artist, which is fine, but potentially stifling for imaginations, is by understanding hospitality and all it’s interesting performative surrounding hospitality
words associated to this topic:
abundance, cornucopia, tree, bearing, desserts, fruitful, fertile, decorative, tradition, adolescence, dance, wreathe, candles, cheese plate,
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you must notice
your heels being touched when we’re at the Y
not the kind of acknowledgment we hope for at tryouts,
pretending it didn’t hurt when i splashed you splash you in the eye
im hunched under the stinging blanket without goggles or eyelids working and i double check your raisin feet, they still point at me sometimes
you are fashionably late to the red lay line each time that you're the rabbit,
and im moving my legs at mock so I can pass your wall to the anchor boy, then we will have worked together well.
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dont let the door hit you on the way out;
dont pause or hesitate
you can go, and you are also welcome to continue here
let your feet do their work
& pray u dont ask them why they go when they approach the threshhold
or watch them when they carry you
its distracting for them
i hope youre using this door.
Its better late than never
even when you leave I want to offer you a glass of water when your near the threshhold, but i think it would be impolite to intercede with your feet.
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This research attempts to unearth the cultural politics and relational power structures and further distinguish these findings to analyze the muddled and potentially problematic relationship adolescent women hold with their virtual avatar. Employing Motivated Identity Construction Theory, Feminist Theory, Psychological Studies of Dual Congruity Perspective, Girlhood Studies, the Symbolic Interactionism Theory and Phenomenology of Architecture will service researching some of the ways this particular identity construction is affecting the reality of feminine self -perception, and intrinsic conflict a girl may encounter within the virtual and real world. Video game consumers or participants in social media create their virtual avatars. Sharing and creating avatars, particularly for girls, promises an opportunity for owning uniqueness and individuality. The customization of virtual identity can be confused with the a possibility for one’s idealist identity. They are also promised a world where they can operate their ideal identity. When one is asked to create an avatar in self-likeness, it is done in the fashion synonymous to fictitious autobiography. The opportunity of agency that users encounter, (to reflect and represent themselves), within the supposedly creative environments of commercially designed online spaces uncovers multiple relational power structures. How are these power structures affecting self-representation, interior resolution, and asks, how does one recognise or define self-commodification.
Question:
How is the self concept of an adolescent girl shaped by the existence of two identities? The description of this self concept may introduce the intrinsic conflict that arises between their real world identity and their idealistic virtual avatar’s identity. What limitations and possibilities are seen, and how do they manifest in a girls self concept? I want to break down the construction of the non-unitary nature of identity and of the unrealistic promise of uniqueness in a virtual commercially designed space, and, understand the processes of participants settling for a sutured identity where the options for representation were casted in the domain of emphasized femininity.
Contemporary media artist Cao Fei, claims “it’s no longer important to draw the line between the virtual and the real, as the border between the two has been blurred. In the virtual land, we are not what we originally are, but to some extent, we remain unchanged.” I will borrow this perspective and upon it begin to create and employ appropriate paradigms to organize this research.
To create an eventual conclusion, analyzing the Self Concept with appropriate Paradigms will structure this research:
Paradigm ( I. ) Identity construction dealing with femininity, the relationship of the market for the virtual and technological and the participant/consumer, the analysis of self representation in a landscape built out of compromise between desire, reality, and necessity.
Paradigm( II.) Identifying and analyzing the moment of creating an avatar in self-likeness, specifically the motivations for aesthetic choices, and assignment of personality characteristics.
Paradigm (III). Observes how a participant controls the behaviors of their avatar in the virtual space, and how this self objectification manifests in reality.
Paradigm (IV). Analyzes where self objectification in reality is formed, how this implicates self concept as well as comparing a young woman’s relationship to her avatar and the women’s relationship to her objectified self concept.
The Adopted Conceptual/Theoretical Framework will engage Feminist Theory ( unclear of particular principals at the moment.) I want to dissect the relationship between the virtual identity formation and the real identity formation, and how girls view themselves in this heterotopic space, (a physical representation or approximation of a utopia, or a parallel space, that contains undesirable bodies to make a real utopian space possible), vs reality, and what those clashing realities can do to her identity formation, especially the natures of this self-objectification. I will also engage with Girlhood Studies. In academia, specifically, feminist writing, the study of girls has been neglected. I want to think about a particular paradox that is present in virtual identity construction, through the case of a girl, and the literature that describes a girl’s development of self concept. Particularly in videogames this paradox is present; the structural limitations imposed on girls are in direct conflict with an institutions (or videogames’) acknowledgment of the agency of girls. Often feminist writing has not settled on the girl as a focus for attention, the girl is only discussed as a marker of transition on the way to what is often given more significance; the question of woman. I will engage with Psychological Processes of Dual Congruity, which explains the value of expressive and utilitarian attributes, and how they operate through two different psychological processes; self-congruity and functional congruity:
1. self congruity : a psychological process in which an individual focuses on source images and matches these to his or her self-concept.
2. functional congruity: a psychological process where the match between the beliefs in the utilitarian attributes of a product or service and an individual's criteria.
A Tentative Hypothesis: This research aims to acknowledge non-unitary nature of identity and of the unrealistic promise of uniqueness in a virtual commercially designed space, as well as the promise of cherry picked identity becoming a self image. This acknowledgment, that the present is the future, and that the virtual is not so different from the real, can hope to come together to amplify girl’s voices as they mark out their own space in a changing world.
Preliminary Bibliography
Connie ,Morrison ."Girls, Girlhood and Feminism." BINARYTHIS. N.p., 28 Oct. 2014. Web. 20 Feb. 2017.“Creating and Regulating Identity in Online Spaces: Girlhood, Social
Networking, and Avatars”, Connie ,Morrison. Berghahn Books. (2016)Web.
Kil-Soo Suh, Hongki Kim and Eung Kyo Suh “What If Your Avatar Looks Like You?
Dual-Congruity Perspectives for Avatar Use” Management Information Systems Research Center, University of Minnesota.Web.
Blacovich, Jim and Blacovich, Jeremy.” Infinite Reality” 2011. Harpers-Collins 10 East 53 Street
NY,NY. First Edition. Book.
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future:We can have tea.talk about things that are exciting.
some things that I will do tomorrow:
-im gonna have fun with my friends and i won’t want it to end
-lick the pad of my index finger so that some violently pink dust of an old crushed addy in the car cup holder will cling to my finger. Some of the dust won’t cling. it will fall from my ascending finger in the dustlight.
-eat an amazing in-season apple with peanut butter
ill go to the gym. and run until I find my lungs 15 times, usually in 30 minute intervals. and my body feels good and tired :)
ill want to wear heels. and ill wonder; will this be the kind of day where i hitch an amp up to the wooden wedged clogs, so they can confidently strike the floor. or will it be a day where I walk on ceramic tile and it's loud in the way that is kind of embarrassing.
Leave my blinds open and wake up to the warm sunshine :)
go into my studio, and give my pants a bath.
drink coffee, apply lipgloss
If this happens I think i’ll be happy. If this doesn’t happen, that’s ok too:
Live with my friends, learn a new language, have a room full of plants, teach as a professor, make more friends, have a family, live in a city. I’d like to have a studio practice in a place outside my home, and I want to have a bodega next to it. I will have a pet fish that lives in my studio. I want to take public transportation there. A perfect day Is doing something new, getting a new pink or red lip product, reading something that makes me understand something or someone more, see a family walk together, see kids laughing and playing outside, and savoring the time that follows freshly uncanned feet. That moment when u peel off the heel of your shoe, with your other shoe, and bend the knuckles of your toes, and roll your ankles reminds me of all the good work my feet did. the red dented top of my foot is nice to see. it reminds me that even though these marks are painless, i need to know i’m worth more than this traditionally productive day. like the red dents, the evidence of work might not be an appropriate metric for determining and projecting my future. I just hope that I can afford time. I want to spend my money on saving time, traveling, and accessories(shoes). I want to spend my time wasting time, making work, spreading and sharing everything I have learned, and adding a positive and peaceful presence to the world i am in.
Thank you for reading this, xoxoxox :)
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Interviews with Carlyn Perlow <3
Audrey interviews Carl
Audrey: Ok, so, Carlyn. Tell me about how David Bowie has inspired you. I know there’s probably so many different ways, but...
Carlyn: David Bowie is probably one of the most important figures to me, probably because when I was thirteen he was the first public figure I saw that was really celebrated and applauded for being androgynous and very strange. He was the first public figure I saw that made it empowering and really cool, and I really admired him for that when I was younger.
I guess now I feel like all of the work I make is a post-Bowie’s death thing. Or I feel like, I don’t know, maybe everything I’m doing is grieving Bowie. Maybe that’s the theme of all my work. Like after he died I think he, or not necessarily him, but a suit, and the idea of wiping your identity clean… or having a clean slate, or letting yourself have multiple egos at the same time is really fascinating. And it really interests me that even though he passed away, like is there anyone who actually knows who David Bowie was? Or is David Bowie even a real person? Did he exist? Because, I don’t know, he had so many different identities that I don’t think any of us are really going to know who David Bowie was. So I think about that often.
The most obvious translation to my work from David Bowie is the use of suits, or the use of the suit character. It’s kind of the idea that you can put on a suit and you can become a different person, or you can put on a suit and transform into a different entity the same way he did- when he was transitioning from this glam rock alien into this really cold duke figure. I think that transition is very important to me.
A: It’s true. Ok, how do you go about about the synthesis of punk and humor? I feel like it’s a tough thing to do sometimes but you do it.
C: Like being humorous and also being punk, you mean?
A: Yeah
C: I feel like I used to worry about punk a lot when I was younger. Now I don’t. I don’t think about it too much. When I was a freshman Caitlin Macqueen had told me- and I took this to heart a lot- she told me that anybody can make serious art but not everybody can make art that’s really funny. So if you can make funny art, then you should do that. So I think about that a lot. I also feel that everything is funny...maybe not everything is funny. But I think you can find humor in everything. Or maybe it’s the only way you can talk about serious things with humor, because how else are you supposed to deal with that? Sometimes when I’m making work that is very personal or has to do with directly with my problems or my life it always ends up being really silly and really tongue in cheek. It’s one of those things where it’s like, how am I supposed to, or how is anyone really, supposed to talk about their own lives without laughing about it? I feel like it’s the best way of coping.
If you want to be punk rock, or if you want to make punk art, whatever that means… or if you want to discuss some of the topics punk does, like government and politics, I feel like you have to make jokes. You have to do it in a way that makes… I’m not sure how to answer this correctly. I think humor and language is all about power, and so depending on how you use a joke or how you use humor when talking about certain things you can give yourself a lot more power. And often when you want to talk about punk people brush it off really easily because they’ll take it as this sort of piss off attitude, and it’s really easy for people to not take punk seriously. Which is interesting since at least years ago-maybe not now- but punk was a really valid critique of society and class war. So I feel like now if you want to talk about punk you have to be funny and self aware. You have to joke about things the right way.
A: It’s definitely a talent to make funny, good tasteful work.
C: Yeah, it’s all about what you make the joke. And I think you can always be successful as long as you make the joke about yourself. Or if you make the joke about the thing that you want to give more power to. Especially nowadays I feel anything that can be made a joke of somehow gets a lot of power. And I don’t know why that is, but I also think maybe that’s how Donald Trump was elected president. Because he’s just this giant twitter troll and this huge joke but for some reason I feel like right now in society with our super over-saturated and meme filled and media filled and consumption filled world, things that are a joke have the most power. Because Donald Trump is just this horrible horrible thing, but it was so horrible that it was funny at first. Then eventually, in some way he gained the respect and power from a huge population of people. So I think that humor is power, and it’s really dystopian.
A: Yeah, it’s really fucking weird.
C: Like if you want to take power away from Donald Trump or figures like Donald Trump, the way you poke fun or the way you use humor has to be really specific and emasculating in the right way. Even if you make fun of them in certain ways it can still empower them, you have to be careful.
A: Ok, spaghetti.
C: Spaghetti. Last year, from christmas onwards, still to today, I eat spaghetti maybe three times a week. Usually as a second dinner, around 11 o’clock I’ll get home or just have a super uncontrollable urge to eat an entire pot of spaghetti. I like making work about spaghetti and including spaghetti in my work and in pieces because I feel it has to do with unbreakable habits. Or like a, how did I describe it before?
A: It’s almost an infinite looking object in itself.
C: It’s like a self perpetuating misery, kind of? Whenever I would be miserable about the state of my life I’d think, I want to eat some spaghetti. And I’d just eat the spaghetti over and over again.
A: Wait, what do you put on it?
C: Like salt, garlic and oil.
A: No marinara?
C: No, just plain. Yeah. So when you eat it like that, like am I eating the spaghetti because I’m miserable or am I miserable because I’m eating the spaghetti? So after awhile it’s like having certain attitudes and certain feelings associated with objects, which I think is really strange because then these objects become personified. And then somehow the spaghetti becomes all these different things in terms of sculpture, it becomes all of your bad habits or the spaghetti becomes that one person you keep involving yourself with that you shouldn’t be. Spaghetti means a lot of different things to me right now, but it’s probably going to be something I make work about for a really long time. Spaghetti feels like it’s always relevant. It’s really interesting to me when objects can be personified, particularly foods, or having this object mean all of these different things all the time while you’re also consuming it. It’s an interesting relationship.
A: I wanted to talk to you about Route 18. And what it was like on Route 18 today and what it was like two years ago.
C: Today on Route 18 for a good stretch of the way I was stuck behind this one red car that didn’t want to move. For a while. I’ve started memorizing all the potholes. So I know when to move my car at all the right spots. Route 18 seems a little bleak to me right now to be honest. Or at least not the same as it was to me two years ago in comparison to all the roads I drove out west. Which is kind of sad. Route 18 to me has always been the space where I think and probably the closest I have to a studio practice. Or to any kind of consistent work ethic. Because I consistently drive it everyday, and the commute is forty minutes. So it’s kind of where I sit and think for a while before I get to my studio and do work. I’m really interested in the idea of commuting and the idea of being in transit. Two years ago I liked to think of highways and Route 18 as a wormhole because it’s just this really strange space where you’re alone in your car and you end up from point A to point B. And suddenly time has passed and you’re in a different place on the other side of New Jersey, you just ended up there. So for a while I thought if it like that. Now I’m most interested in the idea of commuting and a lot of people being in their cars at the same time on the same road going in the same direction, yet everyone is completely isolated from each other. No one talks to each other. But it’s this giant rush of people, shoulder to shoulder, on the same path. It’s very odd. I enjoy observing people while I drive and looking into car windows.
A: Some people don’t do that though, and I always want to. I always want to look into another person’s car window. I never see anyone else wanting to look around. But especially when you’re lonely, don’t you want to look?
C: I guess people are looking at you when you aren’t looking at them. But I guess it definitely has to do with loneliness. And alienation.
A: Do you ever feel sad when they don’t look back at you? And they just have their own whole thing going on and they look so cool and independent and then you’re just there?
C: I don’t know what I’d actually do if someone looked back at me. Because nobody has. I feel I’ve never even considered it because I’m always sneaking.
A: I feel like I’d just be a coward and look away.
C: Sometimes I can tell when someone passes and they had been looking into my car though.
A: You can feel it.
C: Yeah, and they probably think I’m this crazy woman. Or living out of my car or something. Because I always have so much crazy shit in the back of my car, I’m always super frazzled covered in garbage in a car filled with garbage.
A: Do you want to do a car exhibition? And have our cars parked and we can put art in our cars?
C: Yes. Or we can have an entire exhibition with the trash that piles up in our cars. But I’m down for anything involving cars. A car is like a space shuttle. My car is a space shuttle. I can take it wherever I want. It’s the most important thing to me. But route 18 is a special road. There’s a particular gas station that I really love, that the mini-mart is almost a perfect cube. It doesn’t look like it should exist in the real world.
A: So that’s your favorite landmark on Route 18? We both have favorite landmarks on route 18. You know the ice cream shop with the neon cake thing? I always look at it. It’s so beautiful. Okay, moving on. We already talked about suits, talked a bit about alter egos. Ok, so in your talk you talked about the UFO phenomena and about God being harnessed or something. I thought it was a cool remark.
C: Oh yeah, I’m really attracted to the UFO phenomena or people being interested in extraterrestrial life. It really comes down to the search for God. Or a really abstract notion of God. Obviously not a biblical God or any human-made God. I think the UFO phenomena was a kind of group grieving which I think is interesting. It was this crazy whirlwind that exploded and came about after world war two. And right after the Atomic bomb was created. So the bomb was created, and pretty much human beings had harnessed the power of God. And the power to annihilate massive groups of people and end the planet, you know? Like created this perfect power of destruction that could end everything with the press of a button. It’s wild. I think the UFO phenomena definitely happened in response to that. I think it was a dissociative act and this desire to not be a person anymore. Looking up to the skies as opposed to being on Earth. It’s pretty depressing but it’s interesting to me the collective desire to not be human anymore or to find something that wasn’t human. Almost like this desire to find something else to save ourselves from ourselves. It’s a really multi-layered concept, like to find other beings to know you aren’t actually the worst out there, maybe to help you leave, or wanting to know there’s other spaces or planets to adapt to for whenever human beings do come to complete devastation. Or maybe in the end people just didn’t want to accept we had created a power like that and wanted to find a greater power out there. So many different things. But I definitely think it’s grieving. Or a search for God and order in the form of an extraterrestrial being from another planet. To find solace in. Because how could we have created something like that, and how could we have let such devastation happen?
A: Are there any unhealthy studio habits or studio addictions you have that manifest themselves in your work whether you want it to or not?
C: Probably the disgusting amount of Yerbe Matte I drink. Actual real addiction, for real. I need to drink it to get work done.
A: It’s still better than coffee though.
C: I think a lot of my work is really obsessive and meticulous looking. I’ve been told my drawings and collages are ridiculous because this overcrowded space ends up happening, or I end up overworking the entire area and it becomes super condensed. Like a composition that has no breathing room at all. I’ve been told that. I’m not sure so much as that has to do with unhealthy habits so much as it has to do with mental state and not being able to turn my brain off. But as far as addictions go definitely Yerbe Matte.
A: That’s totally not a bad vice though out of everything in the world.
C: That’s true, I could be doing crack. I guess it’s not that bad. But it’s still pretty bad.
A: Some of these things we talked about last week. How Ad Reinhardt is this really unfortunate presence.
C: I guess learning about Ad Reinhardt pushed me to know that I don’t want to make art about art. I have 0 interest in making art that is only referential to itself. That is absolutely not the content I’m interested in. Mostly because I feel it makes the work inaccessible to anyone who doesn’t have an art education or isn’t trained in fine arts. I really hate that, it’s so privileged. Accessibility is really important.
Carl interviews Audrey
Carlyn: Ok Audrey, so the first thing I would like to ask you about. I know you have so many different ideas all the time, and I’m wondering how you have some way to compartmentalize what you want to do in painting or what you want to do in sculpture or what it is that warrants a performance. How do you go about deciding these things?
Audrey: I think for paintings usually I’m thinking about social spaces or head spaces. I kind of like to manipulate and warp those spaces. And that’s just kind of fun, that’s a fun compositional thing to do. Just even aesthetically, just warping things and having fun with abbreviated forms of figures and imagination and stuff. So that’s where I like to do painting things. With sculpture I’m interested in objects that are already existing that I want to research in a different environment. Test them out in different ways and use them for functions that they aren’t typically used for. So I just want to continue their presence in the real world. And then for performance, I think is when I’m testing out the sculptures in a context of when I’m comfortable presenting it to an audience after I’ve done maybe like some research and found some fascinating ways to present it. That’s maybe when they take shape in performance.
C: I know you’re interested in social practice, too.
A: Social practice in what way?
C: Like I know you are interested in throwing parties, and we’ll talk about cakes later, but I know you’re interested in baking cakes for certain occasions. If you could elaborate on that, like what it means for you to throw a party or how you go about throwing a party?
A: I think one of the things I like about parties is that it’s a space where people can like… they’re all there for a reason. They’re all there for a function. They all want to be there as opposed to not. Formally that’s what a party is I guess- because maybe not everyone wants to be there but formally everyone wants to be there. And I’m interested in how a host reacts to something like that, and why it is that food is such a big part of that. What are ways of hosting and entertaining people and what does hospitality mean? Any party with a guest and a host, they kind of have responsibilities towards each other ethically. And I’m interested in how that translates into traditions of manners and being polite. I’m interested in that weird hospitality ethic and both host and guest in that relationship. And all the things that come out of that. I also think that maybe throwing parties allows me to take on this host persona. And I like the idea of that because, like we were saying, art can be really intimidating and unwelcoming, so throwing a party in the name of art is kind of making fun of how shitty and unwelcoming art can be towards some people. And like providing things that a host would provide.
C: Talking about hosting and providing, I guess talk about cakes, what cakes mean to you. All your thoughts about cake.
A: There’s so many. So cake is very interesting to me because it’s an interesting object. First of all, going back into cakes, the first cake was Greek I guess. Some sort of Greek food.
C: Was it?
A: That was the first recorded cake. Maybe not, but it was the first recorded version of a cake in classical history. In art. Obviously there’s all different cake origins, but it was the first classical historical studies of it. They are built as, they’re formal objecthood is built pointing towards the cosmos. And it’s a celestial ladder or something. And maybe putting a substance like that in your body can bring you closer to something otherworldly, and the fact that it’s sweet and takes part in indulging can take you to a place that’s outside of yourself and you can escape to this land of indulgence. It’s almost some sort of like, when you’re indulging, close to your physicality it can be the closest you get to an otherworldly experience like how drugs are. It’s like a lawful evil, in one view of it. So that’s a formal interest. Then there’s another formal interest though, with all the fats and sugars and carbohydrates is considered an abundance and how that is associated to girls’ butts in pop culture- and the abundance of that and why that is tempting. And how it’s another form of objectivity and body parts and how they can become one another. Because the fat that is in somebody’s butt is appealing and then it takes another form as sugar in a cake. So I want to know more about that. And also rituals around eating cakes are so interesting. And messages written on cakes, the birthday ritual of cakes, and who is the cake for in that birthday ritual? Is it the person that is gift-giving it, is it the person making the wish, or is it for the party to share? What does it mean? Who is the message written for?
C: So how then do you think that consumption is important to your work? Or the idea of consumption?
A: Yeah, totally. I think so. Consumption in so many forms, even like accruing objects and accruing all these objects that can be wasteful. And wasteful in so many different ways. Their existence in the world and if they’re able to be recycled, and what’s the point of this object. If something does not have any value but has value to you, is it still a piece of junk? And being a pack rat, and how there’s so much art and really terrible junk objects.
C: Speaking of junk, I know you find inspiration in dollar stores.
A: Yeah, it’s like when I go in there an automatic- like how some people automatically draw- I get an automatic accessibility to something- some beautiful object to work with. And in a dollar store there’s so many- you can get so many weird things and there’s so many purposes for it. It’s just this abundance of functions. I like to think I can go in there and think, wow that’s a great object, and how does it function? I can explore so many functions, it’s endless. It’s a good exercise.
C: Yeah, really useless things and useful at the same time. So, dollar stores. Maybe talk about how you feel about Santa as a figure. Because throughout your work you talk about a lot of spaces and certain objects and things you fixate on, but Santa seems to be a recurring figure or character that shows up.
A: So Santa, I live this narrative about Santa. And how he’s some special provider for the whole world, and the whole world that has been created by this existence of Christmas. What has Christmas become, and why is it a global thing? How is Santa this mediator between this religious holiday, and he’s Saint Nicholas too. He’s all these different things, and I think of him more as like his relationship of how he looks with what he does in the commercial part of christmas. He’s this fat, abundant, jolly provider of presents and stuff. Why is he this big fat man? Why is he not a faerie? What is special about his characteristics?
C: Do you think your interest in Santa has to do with this interest in a host persona?
A: Yeah, and also it’s kind of sad, but I always think I look like Santa Claus in this weird self image issue I’ve developed. I’ve always had problems with body dysmorphia and the shit that every girl has to deal with. And being read books about Santa as a child during Christmastime, and him being this thing I looked forward to as a child, why do I feel like I look like this person? Like this giant fat aryan person? Like he goes everywhere in the world and has this magical way of transporting himself. There’s so many things I think about.
C: Something else I am interested in, and I guess we could discuss it in terms of Ad Reinhardt or not, but how you feel about being a female artist and what it means to be a female artist right now. And feminism in relation to your work.
A: Well I think that being a female artist obviously there’s a shame to being this girlie type of, engaging with girlie types of things. But I think that reclaiming it is really interesting to me and that’s why I really like certain color palettes and cheesy kind of crap. Because it’s disposable. In the same way that female artists are there’s a lot of useless objects out there but they’re there because people want them. Maybe that’s kind of like a parallel to how the world has treated female artists in a very sad way. And then when you do recognize how special they are it’s some kind of exoticized thing. That’s also something shitty about being a female artist, is that people outside of the art world think you’re this loose girl. And you’re romanticized to fit this boy genius role, this off the wall unhinged thing, and then it’s double time for females because they’re already seen as over emotional. And Jackson Pollack is celebrated as this over emotional person and romanticized as a genius but when a woman does it she can’t control her emotions and she’s not good enough. It’s a hard thing to grapple with.
C: Yeah, or I think about Niki Saint Phalle actually. She kind of also fit that persona of this loose cannon wild child persona, with a ton of mental health issues the same as so many male artists that had preceded her, and to this day a lot of people still consider her work outsider art.
A: There’s so much shit to think about with that. Like when you try to be funny you have to work double hard to be funny because you’re already funny to people. You have to work double hard to be taken seriously. I think it’s harder to be goofier as a male artist.
C: Maybe talk about how music has been important to you?
A: We were talking about how we don’t want to make art about art because it’s kind of exclusionary. When I’m looking for artistic references I tend to not look at art history because they are exclusionary. I tend to look at people that I like and what they like and think about that relationship, and some musicians are just so, like… I can’t even comprehend how they make music and it’s amazing to me. And they wear so many hats. Like Tyler the Creator, and Lil Yachty, and Britney Spears, Gwen Stephani. And Shakira. Obviously I just like people that I’m interested in their tastes and aesthetics, I really like artists that do everything for themselves. Kind of like a one man show, I like those people a lot. I also like how Lil Yachty claimed this nautical persona and is using it to make a ton of money. He was excluded from this nautical culture and then he reclaimed it and is making fun of it in a really clever way. I’m interested in how he did that and how he did it in such a fascinating way. I’m also interested in that I guess I have associations with. I’m a blonde white girl, and I associate with Britney Spears, maybe. And how she uses the things we share. How she uses them as tools and stuff.
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