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[blackwattlenemeton]

never let anyone tell you that trawling through mediocre victorian poetry isn't worth it. we just happened upon an absolute BANGER of a worm poem. go read it or else 🪱🪱🪱

[blackwattlenemeton]

hello there! today i came across a claim that sort of baffled me. someone said that they believed the historical norse heathens viewed their own myths literally. i was under the impression that the vast majority of sources we have are christian sources, so it seems pretty hard to back that up. is there any actual basis for this claim? thanks in advance for your time!

Sorry for the delay, I've been real busy lately and haven't been home much. Even after making you wait I'm still going to give a copout answer.

I think the most basic actual answer is that it's doubtful that someone has a strong basis to make that claim, and the same would probably go for someone claiming they didn't take things literally. I think we just don't know, and most likely, it was mixed-up bits of both literal and non-literal belief, and which parts were literal and which parts weren't varied from person to person. We have no reason so suppose that there was any compulsion to believe things in any particular way.

About Christians being the interlocutors of a lot of mythology, this is really a whole separate question. On one hand there's the question of whether they took their myths literally, and on the other is entirely different question about whether or not we can know what those myths were. Source criticism in Norse mythology is a pretty complicated topic but the academic consensus is definitely that there are things we can know for sure about Norse myth, and a lot more that we can make arguments for. For instance the myth of Thor fishing for Miðgarðsormr is attested many times, not only by Snorri but by pagan skálds and in art. Myths of the Pagan North by Christopher Abram is a good work about source criticism in Norse mythology.

Though this raises another point, because the myth of Thor fishing is not always the same. Just like how we have a myth of Thor's hammer being made by dwarves, and a reference to a different myth where it came out of the sea. Most likely, medieval Norse people were encountering contradictory information in different performances of myth all the time. So while that leaves room for at least some literal belief, it couldn't be a rigid, all-encompassing systematic treatment of all myth as literal. We have good reason to believe they changed myths on purpose and that it wasn't just memory errors.

I know you're really asking whether this one person has any grounds for their statement, and I've already answered that I don't think they do. But this is an interesting thought so I'm going to keep poking at it. I'm not sure that I'm really prepared to discuss this properly, but my feeling is that this is somehow the wrong question. I don't know how to explain this with reference to myth, so I'm going to make a digression, and hope that you get the vibe of what I'm getting at by analogy. Edward Burnett Tylor (1832–1917) described animism in terms of beliefs, "belief in spiritual beings," i.e. a belief that everything (or at least many things) has a soul or spirit. But this is entirely contradicted by later anthropology. Here's an except from Pantheologies by Mary Jane Rubenstein, p. 93:

their animacy is not a matter of belief but rather of relation; to affirm that this tree, that river, or the-bear-looking-at-me is a person is to affirm its capacity to interact with me—and mine with it. As Tim Ingold phrases the matter, “we are dealing here not with a way of believing about the world, but with a condition of living in it.”

In other words, "belief" doesn't even really play into it, whether or not you "believe" in the bear staring you down is nonsensical, and if you can be in relation with a tree then the same goes for that relationality; "believing" in it is totally irrelevant or at least secondary. Myths are of course very different and we can't do a direct comparison here, but I have a feeling that the discussion of literal versus nonliteral would be just as secondary to whatever kind of value the myths had.

One last thing I want to point out is that they obviously had the capacity to interpret things through allegory and metaphor because they did that frequently. This is most obvious in dream interpretations in the sagas. Those dreams usually convey true, prophetic information, but it has to be interpreted by wise people who are skilled at symbolic interpretation. I they ever did this with myths, I'm not aware of any trace they left of that, but we can at least be sure that there was nothing about the medieval Norse mind that confined it to literalism.

For multiple reasons this is not an actual answer but it's basically obligatory to mention that some sagas, especially legendary or chivalric sagas, were referred to in Old Norse as lygisögur, literally 'lie-sagas' (though not pejoratively and probably best translated just as 'fictional sagas'). We know this mostly because Sverrir Sigurðsson was a big fan of lygisögur. But this comes from way too late a date to be useful for your question.

[blackwattlenemeton]

I've been feeling Taranis a lot lately, with the recent late summer storms here. You'd think thunder gods would more or less feel the same, but they don't. Taranis feels quite different from Thor, more...watery?

[blackwattlenemeton]

A genuine question, did the word "devotee" just up and vanish from language while I wasn't looking?

Linguistic drift is totally a thing, but I'm deeply confused and more than a little baffled at "godspouse" becoming the term used for any oath or close relationship to a deity.

Maybe it's because I've been doing this particular form of mysticism for over a decade, but when I was getting started it was Very Clear (on what resources were out there,) that this was a marriage in a literal sense. It was also stressed that you (general you) can have a relationship with a god that's just as deep (or deeper) than marriage and not be oathed to them at all.

[blackwattlenemeton]

If my decomposing carcass helps nourish the roots of a juniper tree or the wings of a vulture—that is immortality enough for me. And as much as anyone deserves.

Edward Abbey

[blackwattlenemeton]

Another collage-offering!!! This time for Cernnunos

(Disclaimer: I do not own any of the pictures used in the collage, this is just meant to be used for personal use NOT profit)

Just felt pulled to capture how I interpret his vibe!

[blackwattlenemeton]

Resources: Continental Heathenry / German Folk Practice

A scrabbled-together quick list of resources I like for anyone interested in german folk magic & continental heathenry. This is not Norse paganism. While the Germanic tribes and regions overlapped, 'Germanic' is a language family and not one monolithic culture. Continental Germanic practices are an overlooked and undersung path in neopaganism but hopefully we can change that.

--vetted sources! no frith with facists--

Creators:

German Folkwitchery - Down Holle's Well (podcast) (spotify link)

A Hearth Witch (yt) (linktree)

HexMarie (tiktok) (linktree) (tweeter)

De Spökenkieker (yt)

Nordic Animism (yt) (Norse, but great content and many concepts apply to any Germanic practice)

Ella Harrison (yt) (Wiccan -> German folk witch)

Deities

Map: Gods of Gaul and Britain

Map: Pagan European Gods (make sure to check and uncheck the boxes)

Frau Holle, or Holda by @ivy-kissobryos (honestly one of the best Holda posts I've found)

Holda's Shrine

Who is Frau Holle?

Berchta: Ancient Alpine Goddess of Women, Children, and the Perchten (cannot vouch for blog but good intro by someone who works with Berchta)

The Matronae

Donar (jackson crawford, yt link)

Wodan (jackson crawford, yt link)

(My fav resources on Donar and Wodan from a practitioner perspective are from A Hearth Witch's patreon so I will not be sharing her content, I unfortunately can't find excellent free webpage resources)

Sirona

Nerthus (good post for historical pagan info)

Nerthus (cannot vouch for the blog but another post)

Hearth Cult Guide (The Longship)

General Resources

The Longship: A Beginner's Guide to Heathenry

Gaulish Polytheism

Sidjus Reidarje Sauilis: A Tradition of Gothic Heathenry

Nemeton Eluêtion (Helvetii Tribe of Gaul and the Ancient Swiss People)

Map: German Folklore

Map: Pagan Sites in Germany and the Netherlands

What Is Rauhnact

No Frith With Facists: DNI List

This is in no way an all-inclusive list. This is a collection of online resources I'm aware of and have been learning from. I am not an authority.

[blackwattlenemeton]

the most infuriating thing about personal growth is that even if someone else did have the answer you needed and conveyed it to you in a precise and effective matter, it won't make sense until you're ready for it. you could hear it every day of your life and it wouldn't matter a fucking bit until it finally clicks. there's very little you can do to influence when that happens, either

[blackwattlenemeton]

note from blogrunner: yes, we've definitely had a poll like this before, but enough time has passed and there's a lot more people following this blog now

[blackwattlenemeton]

feel free to reblog or comment why !

[blackwattlenemeton]

Poem for Earth Day. From Matthew Olzmann's book, Constellation Route. (Alice James Books, 2022)

[blackwattlenemeton]

Prayer to Nehalennia

[[written by a member of the Godsring]]

We honor you, Nehalennia, Mother at the Sea, You who watch over the ships and help them to find safe harbor, You who bless the sailors with good health and warm weather, You who are loved and honored by the seafaring folk,

Be welcome with us now. We honor you, Nehalennia, Hound Maiden, You whose guardian dog is ever by your side,

You who watch over your worshippers as the hound watches over the sheep, You who are loved and honored by the shepherding folk,

Be welcome with us now. We honor you, Nehalennia, Goddess of Bounty, You whose basket overflows with apples and bread, You who share freely of your plenty with those in need, You who are loved and honored by the farming folk,

Be welcome with us now. Be welcome in your shrine, Be welcome in our homes, Be welcome in our lives. Hail Nehalennia!

[[learn more about Nehalennia, including details about the many recently-discovered shrines and contemporary temple dedicated to her]]

[blackwattlenemeton]

so in DBT, there's a concept called the Wise Mind, which is a mental state where you are thinking and acting with both your emotions and logical thought. You access your Wise Mind by striking a balance between your Emotional Mind and your Rational Mind.

One of the ways I was taught to access my Wise Mind is by letting each of the two Minds say what they need to say, listen without judgment or argument, and once they are finished and satisfied that they have been heard, find where the balance between them is -- find something that both my Emotional and Rational Minds can agree to. I actually "invite" each Mind to step forward in turn so I can hear what they have to say to me, so that I can properly act as Wise Mind between them.

Over the past few days, I've been having a lot of difficulty with anxious thoughts disrupting me, and I've been doing this practice a lot. Just over a couple of days, it has evolved quite a bit. For example, the two Minds have gone from being invisible voices to formed figures.

My Rational Mind is a large wolf -- calm, confident, and careful. It holds all my past experiences, good and bad, and it weighs every judgment against them. When I invite it to step forward, it sits with a straight back and pricked ears.

My Emotional Mind... takes the form of a neurotic German shepherd. It lives in the moment and is concerned only with the now, the thoughts and feelings of the present. It paces more often than not, head down, ears low, tail half-tucked.

The Minds have no opinion of each other, positive or negative, and they have no opinion of me. There's no reason for them to; they're both part of me. We're in this together, the three of us.

All of this is to say that if I ever post on here about "the brain-shep"... that's who I mean.

[blackwattlenemeton]

One of the best shot of Total Solar Eclipse from 08-04-2024.

Via @nasa-official

[blackwattlenemeton]

Can I ask what you mean by "spirit =/= consciousness?"

Fiiiiiiiiine.

In my effort to make less effort I may have neglected to mention that the context here is animism. Which, as you probably know, is not a monolith. There are various beliefs labeled "animistic" and they differ on some points, so keep that in mind.

A lot of people take "spirit" to mean "consciousness" which is not necessarily the case. But again, animism is a broad label, so it's not necessarily not the case, either. Of course, defining consciousness is a whole other can of worms, but let's try not to get too hung up on that.

Basically, you can recognize the personhood of a non-human entity without anthropomorphizing it. You can interact with and learn from a spirit without assuming it is experiencing the world in the same way you do.

[blackwattlenemeton]