blue-syscourse

[blue-syscourse]

Yet again begging and pleading with both the system and plural communities to realize that headmates in a disordered system can be endogenic and headmates in a non-disordered system can be traumagenic because the brain is fucked up and weird and sometimes it just does shit because it wants to, and that traumagenic vs endogenic vs disordered aren't all that different from one another in the grand scheme of things

[blue-syscourse]

We don't use this blog much, but we are a CDD system that, especially when we were just starting therapy, found a lot more in common and a lot more community in the endo/plural community than the traumagen/CDD community. Even now that we are frustrated with a lot of the plural community we recognize that the people we dislike are a loud minority, not a majority by any means. We find it way more useful to pull from what individual experiences we relate to than to try to arbitrarily say "only these systems 'should' be relatable to us"

I think it's interesting that some people think that endogenic and nondisordered systems are the only ones saying their experiences are similar to that of traumagenics and systems with CDDs and never the other way around. (Please note that I'm using these terms explicitly as four separate groups, as not all endogenics are nondisordered and not all traumagenics are CDD systems.)

We Willows, a very endogenic and nondisordered subsystem, would never have learned how to switch out if not for the advice of a dear friend system who are a traumagenic system with DID who also have a median subsystem, like what we Willows are.

One of the most beloved, most missed members of the tulpa community is a traumagenic CDD system with tulpas who was a mod for quite awhile and a very helpful contributor to the community. They stepped away from the community for their own health and wellbeing, and are doing quite well for themselves now. But for quite awhile they were famous and beloved.

There's still a lot of traumagenic and CDD systems in the plural community who view their plurality as the same sort of thing going on with endogenics and nondisordered systems.

The pervasive idea that it's always endogenics "pushing their way into" traumagenic and CDD spaces is ignoring the reality of mixed plural spaces and dismissing the self-determination of trauma and CDD systems with their ability to recognize the similarities in experiences between them and endogenic and nondisordered plurals.

I don't really have a major point to make with this, just think it's an interesting perspective - something that makes me wonder why it happens, and what's going on in the mind of someone who sees things this way.

[blue-syscourse]

Something I was talking about with some friends in a server last night that's still on my mind is how late-stage recovery CDD systems are not really treated like people, more like a goal or a symbol (simultaneously of health and violence, depending on who you ask). We're also not really treated like we may still benefit from community and resources, there's not much out there in terms of information or spaces and we're often treated like we don't really belong when we try to be a part of general CDD spaces.

I often feel really objectified as someone in "late stage" recovery, especially when I am operating as fully fused. My experiences are used as fuel for arguments, I'm simultaneously demonized and put on a pedestal, but I'm not often really treated like just any other person with DID.

I often feel like I'm not really allowed to have symptoms or have periods where I am not doing so well with my DID, people expect me to be "cured" and at the same time are very quick to remind me that "fusion can always fail and you'll split again".

It feeds a lot into the perfectionism I struggle with that I mentioned in this post.

I have noticed that most CDD systems in the spaces I've frequented are early-recovery or no-recovery, and a good amount are also pretty new to figuring out they're a system and/or CDD, which is fine, just means there's not really a lot of late-stage recovery folks around and a lot of misinformation tends to get spread about late-stage recovery. I often feel pretty alienated from the community with the point I'm at with my DID and recovery.

When I talk about my experiences with fusion and recovery, it is often that others don't really get what I'm talking about, and that can be really isolating.

As well, most system spaces focus a lot on having alters/parts, and on being separate individuals, and on splitting, and my system just doesn't really... work that way anymore, unless I'm doing particularly poorly and need that sort of separation. My parts more or less function like IFS parts more than DID parts nowadays, a lot of the time. I even started working with an IFS therapist recently.

At this point, IFS is actually more of a helpful framework for understanding my system than what the CDD community has been providing me, because the CDD community largely just doesn't really have any resources for systems that don't function like early-recovery systems do, or any understanding of the differences in system function.

And I kind of just... wish it was different, because I love the CDD community, it has been my home for quite a while now and it always will be, I think. I just often don't really feel as supported as someone with DID in a later stage of recovery as I was in an earlier stage of recovery, and that makes me feel kind of sad. I've largely had to find resources on my own, and aside from the small community of late-stage DID recovery folks on here I don't really get that same sense of shared experiences or community anymore.

[blue-syscourse]

hello ~ i mean no disrespect at all, but im curious as to whether or not u think people should never conceptualize themselves as more than one? is that impossible in ur mind?

just wondering bc from what i know about plurality, its just existing as more than one and thats all… which i thought anyone could do if it helps them? its not hurting others for ppl to view themselves this way…

plz delete if this bothers u at all!!!

apologies if im misreading this wrong, im not the best with words to be honest 😭

i think people can definitely view themselves as more than one. i mean, using the theory of structural dissociation, we all start out as people with fragmented identities, so it's not entirely unbelievable that someone might view themselves as more than one beyond young childhood, people are complex like that.

the issue is that a lot of times it can be... kinda a slippery slope, i suppose?

a lot of times, when people feel like more than one, it is typically caused by something more serious. it doesn't even have to just be a dissociative disorder, people feel more than one for a lot of reasons, like personality disorders (especially bpd), ptsd or any trauma based disorder, anxiety, etc.

i think viewing yourself as more than one identity is fine. but i think more people should really look into the why, and why they feel that way, because a lot of the time, it can definitely be an underlying issue.

^ obviously don't look into the why if you're not ready. don't go digging for trauma or mental disorders if you're not ready, people!!!! you will hurt yourself!!!!

i definitely don't think the idea of plurality is necessarily harmful, it can be but that doesn't mean it will. i just think people should be a little more aware of the why, for their own sake.

tldr; i think people can definitely view themselves as multiple but i think more people should be aware of the reasons they view themselves as plural, because a lot of times it could be a sign of something more serious.

[blue-syscourse]

I'm trying to figure out where I fall on this because Nuance is not a very useful answer. "Supporting" is just... very vague. Do I support people wanting to create systems? I think they should do a lot of research beforehand and not do it on a whim. I'm not sure where that falls.

@digitallynumb-syscourse thought of this pool idea so I'm doing it.

As always, cross-tagging for reach, please reblog for larger sample size.

[blue-syscourse]

i seriously resent having to explain that DID causes symptoms of DID, but you people absolutely cannot get it through your fucking skulls that denial is a fucking limitation. you can sit here and condescend all you want about how youre Not Fakeclaiming youre just saying You Need Trauma To X and you can continue to act smug but you look incredibly stupid.

bc you claim to KNOW what these people believe. you even claim to know Why. "because it's meant to hide your trauma from you!" you say. "Of course you cant remember it!" and its like. OKAY. SO YOURE JUST ABLEIST? Youre saying "Haha this is a group of people i believe symptomatically cannot accept this information. Thats why I'm going to crusade against them, specifically because ive decided theyre exhibiting a symptom that im mad about!" Like awesome! You just suck! Fix your fucking discourse stances or stop pretending like youre helping anyone!

[blue-syscourse]

Actual hot take: if you enjoy being a system 100% of the time, and there are no negative aspects to that, you do not have DID.

‘Oh but I’m traumagenic and there are no negative aspects-‘ then you don’t have DID.

‘I’m endogenic and-‘ then you don’t have DID.

‘I actually love being a system-‘ okay I didn’t ask. This is about having DID.

Part of the criteria of having dissociative identity disorder is that being a system impacts your life NEGATIVELY. If it doesn’t, you don’t have DID.

Mandatory ending: I’m not saying you’re not a system if you enjoy being a system 100% of the time. I’m just saying you don’t have DID. DID =/= being a system (I’m not about to get into origin debates. I don’t care about those. My official stance is that I’m not a psychologist and therefore don’t know enough about the human brain to say that endogenic plurality doesn’t exist/plurality outside of DID doesn’t exist)

[blue-syscourse]

10 lukewarm syscourse takes

from someone who just briefly scrolls the tag from time to time:

1. Labels are only as helpful as they are, well, helpful.

If calling yourself something feels right, that’s great. Fixating on fitting into the labels, however, isn’t.

The labels are there for you to define & communicate your experiences, not boxes for you to cram yourself into.

2. Innerworlds are not a separate physical realm, but they may present that way to a system.

Not all systems are going to have one. Some have to put effort into creating one, if they want/need it. Some systems have very vivid & complex innerworlds.

Innerworlds are a healthy form of dissociation when utilized as such. What’s considered a “healthy” amount of focus on the innerworld will vary from system to system. For some, it could be none at all.

3. This one is very much just an opinion— I don’t believe anyone should invite outsiders into the creation of their system/innerworld. (Ex. Alter packs, innerworld packs, etc.)

If these are things that are going to be parts of your brain, I believe it’s worth thinking over the pieces.

4. Fusion is a good thing, so is functional multiplicity, and the two aren’t mutually exclusive.

We’re personally aiming for functional multiplicity, but are hoping for some fusions as well. Which works better, or the proper balance between fusion & multiplicity, will differ per system.

Demonizing fusion is harmful.

5. Calling out “fakers” is useless.

I know someone who mistakenly thought they had a CDD. Through support & professional help, they came to the conclusion that they were wrong, but they now have a deeper understanding of themself & of dissociative disorders. This person wasn’t “faking it”. They did have mental health issues and problems with identity/dissociation that needed to be addressed. They just turned out not to have a CDD. (This is why professional insight can be useful.)

If someone is truly intending to fake having a CDD or being a system, they’ll get bored of it eventually. Feeding into them (ex. trying to call them out) will only make it “more fun”.

6. Having a CDD vs. not having a CDD is different. CDD systems are not the same as non-CDD systems.

Even if there’s overlap, they are not the same thing.

CDD systems and non-CDD systems can and should have spaces where they interact. I think it’s important to acknowledge that a CDD system will work differently than a non-CDD system while doing so, though.

7. Telling systems what “can’t” happen within their system really doesn’t help anything.

How would anyone but the system experiencing it know? To an extent, the only limit is the bounds of a system’s imagination. Maybe it doesn’t work that way for one system, but it does for another.

Note: Sometimes it is necessary to say that some things are simply not possible, and the belief that they are can cause harm. (Ex. The idea of someone in one system jumping into another person’s system.)

8. The misinformation spread about in online system spaces, presented as scientific fact, is concerning.

CDDs are understudied, and the internal systemhood aspect of them even more so. Non-disordered systemhood, barely studied at all.

Sometimes, the answer is “there hasn’t been enough/any research on this yet”, and we as a community need to learn to be okay with that.

On the other hand, dismissing the studies that have been done, or twisting them to fit a narrative (ex. claiming CDDs are not trauma-based disorders) is just as bad, if not worse.

9. Nuance is necessary.

Existing in online system spaces should not require “picking a side”.

I think syscourse would be a kinder and more productive topic without an “anti” and “pro” dichotomy.

10. Walking away can be best.

These are niche online spaces— anyone can leave them. If syscourse is genuinely affecting someone’s mental health, the way to deal with that is by leaving syscourse for a while. It’s okay to take a break.

Personally, I think it’s great to have no interaction with any online system content every once in a while.

That’s all for now 👋 Hope y’all are doing well and doing it with well-intentions.

[blue-syscourse]

i don't remember if i've mentioned this before or not but imho the anti-endo stance is inherently reactionary. the loudest opinions in anti-endo spaces always amount to whatever is the most hostile to the existence of endogenic systems.

take the hard shift from "plural is an icky endo word, CDD systems don't call themselves plural" to "endos aren't plural, you need a CDD to be plural, endos have to call themselves something else" in maybe 2 or 3 years maximum. the moment CDD systems started adopting the word "plural" and it gradually stopped being immediately associated with endogenic systems, drawing a hard line in the sand between "system = real" and "plural = fake" became less and less effective at #owning the endos.

what anti-endos oppose is often entirely incoherent and their self-proclaimed anti-ableism is generally contradicted by the fact they go out of their way to oppose any slight push into a more inclusive plural community. anti-endos oppose ableism i swear! but i am completely fine with the ableist misinformation that people with factitious disorder just fake illnesses for fun despite the fact it is documented that people with factitious disorder are at a major risk of suicide, because i want to #own the endos.

anti-endos are effectively impossible to please. there is no good endogenic system that makes the anti-endos happy, both in the system community and outside of it. what guidelines they do make often get contradicted in a few years and are used as justification to push endogenic systems further and further into silence.

[blue-syscourse]

"DID is most often hidden and unnoticeable" as in "MANY symptoms of DID, including the symptom of switching from one alter to another, are easily passed off as something else more 'normal' and not readily understood as switching from one alter to another" but you people seem to think that it means "alters don't really have differences actually and if you're allowing yourselves as different alters to know yourselves and express yourselves, you're lying/faking/wrongly self-diagnosed/glorifying DID/romanticizing DID-"

What part of dissociative IDENTITY disorder don't you understand?

You see someone with DID simply existing as themselves (alters existing as themselves) and see someone faking or roleplaying DID or wrongly self-diagnosing or "making DID their whole identity" when really it is literally no different from somebody expressing a side of themself to a friend that they otherwise feel scared to express. It is literally just self-expression.

Tea is an alter in my system who is extremely hyperactive, energetic, exciteable. She stands out. And one of the first times she was fronting in therapy, when I was noticing how different I was and how hyperactive I was, I felt embarrassed and switched immediately. And then many months later, the next time Tea was fronting, and me and our therapist realized it was her who was fronting, we didn't switch! We/she, felt safe and okay enough to behave the ways she does. I didn't switch in order to not behave in those "weird" ways, and I didn't try to suppress the ways I wanted to behave and just Be.

This is huge! It was a huge thing for us in that therapy session. And we've only been continuing our journey with finding ourselves, finding out who we are, and allowing myself to "be" "different."

Alters expressing themselves differently is merely allowing yourself the right to self-expression. It is allowing yourself to truly "be cringe." It is allowing yourself to know yourself. To know who you really are. It is an important and huge aspect of recovery with DID.

Alters are not Nothing, that is an entire aspect of this brain's identity that could not integrate into the rest of the brain's identity.

You people continue to see DID as "the actual person versus the alters that just influence that Real person" when it is more like "all of us are That Real Person. That Real Person is different alters sometimes" like people will say these things about DID being treated like an "identity quirk" just because you see an alter expressing themself when in reality what you are doing is not that different from someone making fun of some kid because they're pretending to be a cat.

You are seeing somebody with DID merely expressing an aspect of their identity, merely expressing themself, and that's bad to you because you continue to incorrectly view DID as "the actual, real person and their alters" when those alters ARE "the real person", just dissociated into its own box.

You continue to see "The actual person, the Host, who is actually a person, oh they can express themselves! :)" but it's suddenly bad when it's not what you think is "the host/the Real/Actual Person" because, again, you people are continuing to incorrectly view alters as these Side things that just pop up and they can't self-express or have their own names or have hobbies and interests or Tumblr side blogs and act like that's bad and it means someone is "roleplaying DID" or faking or "romanticizing" when it is LITERALLY, and I mean this SO literally. It is LITERALLY just expressing another side of yourself.

[blue-syscourse]

Daily reminder that it's okay to change your opinion and everybody is reformable.

[blue-syscourse]

Stop fucking sending anon hate to endo neutrals. To anti endos. To pro endos.

Stop sending hate. Fuck off.

Sending death threats does not fucking help you. It doesn't help the community.

All it does is hurt people

WHY DO ALL OF YOU KEEP HURTING PEOPLE

I don't give a FUCK whether or not you are pro endo or anti endo, who you're sending it to.

The second you send hate. Anon or not.

The second you send death threats.

The second you send SH bait.

The second you send an ask calling them 'ableist rape meat'.

That second, you have done wrong. That second, you are a bad person. That second, you are hateful.

That second, you are cruel.

That second, you are wrong.

[blue-syscourse]

Tbh I feel like the meaning of traumaendo has shifted in the past year or two? Although I could be wrong I mostly engage with discord plural communities not tumblr ones. I feel like it used to mean collective origins are mixed (like, your system as a whole has mixed reasons for forming) and now it means you have nondisordered members?

Whether that was correct or not I don't see how either should be shut out of system communities but especially CDD systems with a couple created or nondisordered members. Shutting them out feels more like a punishment to those excluded than any actual benefit to the community.

here is a poll because i have seen a LOT of conflicting opinions on this, which is also why i'm going to tag this as anti endo too. please reblog so that more people may see! and elaborate on this post if you want to.

this post is assuming the system in question has a CDD like DID or OSDD, and they are solidly traumaendo in their system origins. system origins not always being the same as disorder origins.

[blue-syscourse]

Lmaooooo fattie over here with BINGE EATING DISORDER. Imagine saying you can't have an ED if you're fat 😭

Figured you’d want to know that Okiimii is well known to send death threats to people she doesn’t like.

this is true system facts

she told me to slit

[blue-syscourse]

Wasn't system-facts a woman, or at least claimed she was at one point (no idea if she contradicted it at all different point)

people who call me astro or system facts are transphobic. I ONLY USE SHE HER PRONOUNS. I AM A TRANS WOMAN. I IDENTIFY AS A WOMAN AND SO DO MY ALTERS. WE ARE ALL WOMEN.

[blue-syscourse]

Hey, this blog is new, I'm a real person not a bot I just haven't done all my getting it set up yet.

I try not to do "vibes based" opinions, I try to think on them. However, I often have trouble finding words and organizing my thoughts. People are welcome to try to give me more words and information to think on but know that just because I can't articulate my reasoning doesn't mean I'm refusing to analyze it.

Syscourse Code Inspired Opinion Dump under the cut

I believe endogenic systems are real.

I do not have enough knowledge on the word tulpa to give a stance and have no interest in looking into it further.

I think some endos just misunderstand their identity, aren't ready to process their trauma yet, or for other reasons may be "wrong" or not have full understanding about who/what they are but that doesn't mean everyone is and it's no one on the internet's business to decide that for someone.

Shared spaces are good but we also need separate spaces (but fakeclaiming people out of those separate spaces or kicking them out bc they're also in shared spaces only does harm).

My opinions about whether endos are comparable to transx are complicated by my complex feelings on transids in general but overall I don't think they are that similar for most endos. If someone considers their plurality transx then I guess it is lol but I think their plurality is likely different from the vast majority of endos.

I have no idea if you can have a CDD without trauma and I don't really understand why people care about this question (and yeah all CDD systems can split parts in ways that aren't trauma splits although I personally dislike the term "endogenic headmates" for probably dumb reasons).

I think it depends on the culture in questions whether parts can use names from it. I think with cultures like Japanese that actively export their culture and try to share it it's kinda absurd to gatekeep names. On the other hand, many Native American cultures keep their practices and cultures very closed and in that case I think it is inappropriate to use names from those cultures. I also think there's a difference between your "real name" and the name you call yourself to others and I think there are balances to be made with not having to change your internal name but not using it outside the system. This applies to both introjects and brainmade parts but I would say brainmade parts should probably do some semblance of research to make sure they're actually picking a name and not just a cool sounding word for bucket or something.

If the person has done research on a diagnosis before self diagnosing or is actively trying to learn more that is more than fine, also if they're medically recognized but not "officially diagnosed" that's also more than fine.

I don't use the term sysmed much but I don't have much against it either.

Traumascum as a term is vile and not okay.

Endos can use the term system or alters although the latter is a bit stranger imo.

I don't really understand xeno-origins but like all microlabels my opinion is I don't need to understand them for people to use them but also I do think the amount and way some people use them is worrying in ways I don't currently have the words to articulate.