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i need byler kiss be like this

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Day #6 of drawing Byler until the trailer drops. Cats! :3 I love them

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another milkvan argument that annoys me is, like.... even if mike did somehow know will liked him during the rink o mania scene (he doesn't, and it vastly overestimates his self confidence to think he does since his entire issue was that he felt like will had abandoned him) and even if you take out how common of a romantic trope it is, "we're friends. we're friends!" just couldn't serve as a proper rejection to will's feelings

it's not appropriate. it's not sensitive. it's delivered emotionally and brusquely and without even the slightest bit of empathy. this is not how a considerate person turns someone down someone they care about. so when they say he's 'putting his foot down' and trying to 'steer will in the right direction' or 'clear the air about the actual nature of their relationship' i get. just. 🙄 no. that's not our mike.

mike is not actually a homophobe, and he isn't actually cruel. we see he regrets his comment in s3, do you really think he'd double down on it after all this time?

saying mike was rejecting will during that scene is (wrong) saying he's just a huge gigantic ass with no ability to read a room. even if you ship milkvan it is absolutely out of touch with reality to decide that mike would treat will that way.

i mean, imagine rejecting your best friend of ten years by yelling at him in public. you would also have to imagine you're not a human person capable of understanding the concept of being kind and responsible in the way you talk to other people.

IF mike were to ever reject will, will would almost certainly first need to confess or be outed first (because as observant as mike is when it comes to will, he still assumes will is straight and would likely be extremely hesitant to leap to another conclusion due to their mutual history of being bullied for this exact thing) and then it would need to be taken extremely seriously. remember when robin rejects steve? it would have to be taken even more seriously than that because there's been such a prolonged build up to it.

which means you need to find another explanation for the comment.

he's absolutely not rejecting will, so what is he actually saying? why is he saying it in this way? why does he feel the need for it to be said?

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we're past the appropriate rejection window honestly. remember how steve is rejected by robin in the same season he develops feelings for her? or how dustin is symbolically rejected by max in the season he develops feelings for her? that's because it would have been a super weird choice to build it up for a really long time and then end it with a rejection.

there's a reason why in season three when joyce rejects hopper, we all immediately know it isn't a real rejection, even though they're fighting, she's grieving and planning to leave, and he's being unreasonable and unfair. there's reason after reason to think it's not going to happen, but because he's had feelings for her since season one we know it's going somewhere.

who waits on the edge of their seat to watch someone get turned down? who stays subscribed to netflix for that? that kind of thing would not be interesting, it would just be a confusing way to spend the increasingly limited time right before your show ends. penultimate season. every scene has to mean something bigger, all the way down to lucas talking about new coke or mike trying a new kind of pizza.

in writing you primarily only want to wait and build up to things if the result is going to be worth waiting for. rejection of the perpetually tortured gay kid is predictable and doesn't function to do much at all story wise. easy to write around, too, but they did the opposite. they built will's character around this.

they also have no need to dip back into the rejection pool narratively, doesn't add to the story. especially this late into the game. (sidenote, weird how people were not nearly as sure robin was going to be rejected despite her love interest being mirrored to mike, significantly less developed, and introduced so late, but i digress)

if they wanted mike to reject will, it should have been during the van scene. he should have given mike the painting and said something along the lines of, "i know you don't feel the same, but i really want you to know how el sees you, how we all see you. you're the heart. we'd fall apart without you." it would have still been sad but it would have been an ending.

because plotlines need to end! they need to end when it makes sense for them to, not before or after. dragging it along means they either realize they have something worth dragging, or have deliberately decided to prolong a plot point past its logical conclusion for the sole purpose of milking every last second of misery they can out of will, which would be needlessly cruel and so, so gratuitous.

it's not like the van scene NEEDED to happen exactly how it happened. any scene that is solely character driven with no impact on the plot can be rewritten over and over and changed into whatever it has to be. it was written as the most romantic mike moment in any season, and it was filmed and lit and directed extremely specifically. zero accidents.

robin and vickie was unnecessary without a plan. mike and will was unnecessary unless they have a plan.

so they must have a plan. if mike was going to reject will, it had to be in season four. but mike didn't reject will. not at all. he was actually very, very moved by what will had to say, he just didn't entirely realize what it was he was saying.

in fact, they made sure that this plotline was not just unsolved, but that it was obligated to come back, by having it go against the character's most consistent moral line of friends don't lie. and gave it to the character who, in his introductory scene, refuses to lie. dishonesty has genuine ramifications in this show, and will's is attached to a physical (treasured) object that has to come back into play. they can't sweep it under the rug and mike can't reject will without it coming off as... just... far too late.

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more s5 critter byler i wanted 2 make them better headshots for artfight (and i ALWAYS forget Mike's freckles man)

bonus will idk if i like it very much lol

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okay i desperately need to go to sleep but i have to say this first: i don't think will's gonna have powers in s5.

i understand the theories and i see the appeal but i just don't think it would make sense for the plot... you might argue that he already has "powers" (being able to sense vecna and all) but i'm talking about him having powers similar to el's, or at least powers outside of being connected to upside down.

maybe i'm wrong but i feel like there is quiet a sum of people who believe in this so i tried to get into it too but it just doesn't sit well with me.

that being said you're very welcome to try and change my mind, i always appreciate theory posts and comments :)

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i could prob start postingmy ST stuff here tbh.. anyways my AU byler guys and design i made for joyce

im normal guys trust

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happy pride month to these dorks <3

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Wait. What if we’ve got it the wrong way around. What if it’s WILL that has to save MIKE.

- Lovers Lake is a broken heart cause of the gate, Mike is the heart

- Maybe that’s why Will’s weak with wet hair in the trailer

- That picture of Mike underneath Lovers Lake on the map? Like he’s underwater?

- We know from someone (Shawn Levy? Duffers? I can’t remember oops) said that Will is gonna get to be a hero this season rather than the one that needs to be saved

- Could be some Vecna vision that makes him go there and that’s when we see the missing scene of Mike biking home after seeing Will’s ‘body’??

Idk just thinking like what if we had it the wrong way around the whole time

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sometimes i just think about this eduardo franco fan expo panel where he was talking about the "shared looks" on stranger things and i get giddy.

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UM THIS PARALLEL ?!

Also, I can't find exactly who posted this, but if y'all do, please tell me so I can give creds !!

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Season 2 Mike definitely saw Max as a love rival for Will

Another Byler from Mike Wheeler's POV analysis—(Unrequited love trope edition).

Walk with me.

Sometimes I think about how when the party went trick-or-treating Mike specifically told Will that he, "should have checked with him" first before letting Max join them.

It's just a very peculiar moment. Why Will?

Even Will was confused by this, lol.

We know that Mike doesn't like Max in season 2 (for reasons we'll look into more), but why did he make this Will's problem/ responsibility? Especially after only knowing of her existence for 2 days at this point.

He wasn't angry at Lucas or Dustin—or at least, he didn't expect them to come to him for permission—otherwise he would have said something to them, too.

It was Will who he felt betrayed by and upset with.

Heck, go ahead and take a second look at the first screenshot provided above.

Does Mike look angry to you?

No—he looks forlorn.

Let me break it down for you:

I'll start by saying when the party learned of MADMAX the screename, they were all equally interested in knowing who it was.

But when Max is introduced to us as a character (and revealed to be a girl), we get markedly different reactions between the boys.

In the first frame, they have no idea who she is or what her name is. All they see is a new girl. (Played by Sadie Sink mind you, who is very pretty).

Look at Mike's face: he already looks sulky.

The second frame is after they learn her name is Max. Once again, all four boys show some level of interest, but Mike remains sulky.

Then we have the recess scene in which the boys are watching Max, which is very interesting.

Consider the blocking and body language in this frame:

Look at Will here: he's just as interested in Max as Lucas and Dustin are (even if his interest is not based on attraction). In fact, he's the main focus of this frame for some reason.

Mike is the only one who hangs back, and his body language is completely different from the other three (hands in pockets, meaning he is distanced). He has no interest whatsoever and his facial expression appears agitated.

Mike feels like the odd one out here.

Will fits in.

When they "lose the target" Will is the one who spots her and reinitiates the "watching." Once again, Will is the main focus of this shot and even seems to be showing the most interest; his expression is bright and engaged.

He runs with Lucas and Dustin to the wastebin while Mike trails behind begrudgingly, not wanting to be left behind.

It begs the question: why is Will the focal point among the four boys in a scene about looking at a girl, if he was never intended to be a love interest?

I argue it's because we're seeing this interaction from a very specific perspective—the perspective of Mike Wheeler, who is standing back and observing.

It's also worth noting that Will's change in demeanor and energy here is extremely apparent.

He is noticeably withdrawn and low in spirits this season due to his PTSD (both literal and metaphorical if you count the MF as a metaphor for trauma).

And Mike notices. He’s the one who points out that Will had been "quiet today"—a detail the others miss because they don’t watch Will the way he does.

Notice that Will is disengaged during the science lesson (before Max arrives), while the other three are nerding out. Will previously participated in the science fair—it typically interests him—but his mood is very low.

Then compare that with his immediate engagement when Max walks into the classroom, and the level of interest he showed during recess. Mike would certainly observe this shift, paying as much attention to Will as he does.

In fact, once the distraction of Max has passed and the principal comes to collect him, Will's body language retreats again; shoulders hunched, eyes downcast.

What conclusion do you think Mike would come to based off these few short interactions?

(And these are the only interactions Mike sees between Will and Max before trick-or-treating together the next day. Mike hasn't even spoken to her yet).

From Will's perspective, this girl is just a novelty: a light-hearted distraction from everything else going on, offering a spot of normalcy.

But from Mike's perspective, this is a pretty new girl showing up out of nowhere and immediately raising Will's spirits: something he felt like he failed to do.

And so it brings us to the trick-or-treating scene, in which Will (apparently) joins Dustin and Lucas in their enthusiasm for Max joining the party, while Mike hangs back and then begrudgingly follows, not wanting to be left behind.

Are we noticing the pattern?

Then we have Mike's confrontation with Will (this happens after Will is seen filming Max, btw). He tells Will he should have checked with him about Max joining them and that Max is, "ruining the best night of the year."

Uh... what? What did she do?

He then storms off: inentionally leaving Will behind this time.

(He wants him to know how that feels).

Following this interaction, Will has a big scare with the MF—and of course, it’s Mike who finds him first. Despite his mood, Mike is still attentive and protective.

Mike behaves possessively when he finds Will, not wanting the others to get involved. He takes Will “home” (his home) so they can be alone.

What follows is a scene that, put simply, is about reciprocation.

Interestingly, Mike’s attitude toward Max shifts after this scene with Will—he doesn’t have anything to say about Max joining the party in the AV room to look at Dustin’s pollywog.

This is the girl who apparently ruined Halloween.

You’d think he’d still be unhappy to see her.

But after that conversation with Will in his basement, Mike feels more secure and reassured about the state of their relationship.

He's no longer jealous.

So now, it's apparently fine for Max to be in the party.

Well, that changes again.

The next notable interaction is after Mike realises the pollywog is from the UD. Mike immediately goes into protective mode. It’s not Will who storms into the classroom to grab the trap—it’s Mike.

It’s also (presumably) Mike who locks Max outside of the AV room when they discuss this, yelling at her that she can’t come inside.

When she opens the door anyway, the pollywog escapes—and (of course) Mike blames her. No one else points fingers.

Now, the boys were hesitant to reveal any information about the UD for obvious reasons, but here we see the recurring theme in the Mike/Will/Max triangle: Mike’s protectiveness (and slight possessiveness) of Will.

So, a recap of Mike’s perspective so far:

First gripe: You’re hogging Will’s attention (possessive) Second gripe: You’ve compromised Will’s safety (protective)

Then we finally have the confrontation between Mike and Max:

It literally starts with Mike telling Max to leave because she's in the boys' room. (Similar to his "boys only" comment in season 3).

Let's not get it twisted: When Max finally asks Mike why he's been treating her the way he has been, he deflects.

Mike, who always has a ready opinion and is not afraid of confrontation, is not comfortable sharing the real reason why.

It’s commonly believed that Mike simply didn’t like Max because her presence reminded him of El’s absence—and I see it—but after a closer look, I no longer agree.

Firstly, I don’t think it’s fair to assume that Max would remind Mike of El (or rub salt in the wound of her absence) just because they’re both girls. Max and El couldn’t be more different—physically or otherwise—and that distinction feels intentional.

Mike would never compare Max to El, because to him, El is incomparable—a superhero who saved his (and Will’s) life.

Also, in Mike’s mind, El is still in the party—he lists her name off with the other members.

Max wouldn’t be a replacement.

He literally just stated that she would be an addition.

Secondly, Mike never actually makes this connection himself. He simply offhandedly mentions El when he’s trying to convince Max she’s not needed.

So why does he want her to stay away?

And when El is finally introduced (both through conversation and literally) to this dynamic, what happens?

Mike and Max begin to get along.

They share a smile.

If Mike’s issue with Max had anything to do with El, the scene wouldn’t have played out this way.

It’s classic misdirection.

The misdirection is so obvious they lean into it—even having El herself misinterpret Mike and Max’s relationship, becoming jealous.

She mistakenly assumes Mike is interested in Max, just like Mike mistakenly assumed Will was interested in her, too.

They’re giving the audience a warped perspective, urging us to look behind the curtain.

Mike’s behaviour towards Max fits perfectly into Byler’s shared arc in Season 2: Mike is attentive, protective, and possessive over Will, while Will—consumed by the MF—can’t fully reciprocate that attention.

The “crazy together” scene is the only time Mike receives the same energy back from Will the entire season.

I feel like people forget that when they talk about how cute Season 2 was for Byler. Cute from Will’s perspective, maybe (supernatural plot aside)—but for Mike?

We get multiple shots of Mike staring at Will or noticing his absence (Mike staring at Will’s empty desk being the most obvious example).

That’s called pining.

Will does not invite Mike to his house or show up uninvited—Mike does that. Will does not hold Mike’s hand—Mike does that. Will does not watch Mike closely or check in on him constantly—Mike does that. Will does not become possessive of Mike’s attention—Mike does that.

In fact, they play into this unreciprocated affection trope pretty blatantly—when Mike bares his heart to Will, tearfully recounting their first meeting, Will quite literally cannot respond because he’s possessed—even if he wants to.

Not to mention—Mike’s recount of their first meeting is also (thematically) about reciprocation:

“I asked if you wanted to be my friend. And you said yes. You said yes.”

Mike puts emphasis on the fact that Will said yes: the fact that Will reciprocated his feelings.

That is what he wants.

He wants validation that Will feels the same.

That Will won't leave him behind.

And what happens at the end of Season 2?

From a Byler perspective, this season is about Mike’s (seemingly) unrequited love for Will—and it directly influences Mike’s (very different) behaviour in Season 3.

So yeah.

Mike didn’t like Max because he was jealous, and coping with feelings for Will he feared were one-sided—and in his mind that was confirmed as true.

Why wouldn’t he be relieved to see El at the snowball dance?

Why wouldn’t he kiss her?

Why wouldn’t he immediately start dating her and pushing Will away?

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claim before the ga starts saying they're will fans

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I think something a lot of the general audience for stranger things is forgetting to consider is WHY Will is so interwoven into Vecna’s plan in season five, and how him dying doesn’t make sense.

Will has now been essentially confirmed as a lead if not the new total main character of stranger things in the date announcement trailer. Why? If he was just a target for Vecna’s possession, wouldn’t the season be marketing him more like it did with Max in season four? While Max had a pivotal role in being possessed by Vecna, she wasn’t THE main character for four, and Vecna clearly needed her dead (and had no qualms about killing El at the end too).

Vecna DOESN’T want Will dead.

Will, while under the influence of the mind flayer in season two, said (in a gross summarization) “the mind flayer wants to kill everyone BUT me.” and now it’s been confirmed by Will at the end of season four in his talk with Mike that it was ALWAYS vecna targeting him, even from the beginning. that means vecna doesn’t want Will dead, and needs him alive. He needs Will for something beyond just being a spy, because a spy is useless once everyone is dead. Why keep Will alive after killing everyone else in season 2?

(putting everything else under a cut bc I ramble)

something about Will is incredibly important to the new seasons plot outside of just a potential possession. If Vecna wanted to possess him for spy purposes or for another gate death, why Will? It doesn’t make much sense outside of that lingering connection to him, because all the characters now know that Will could at any point be walking eyes for Henry, which renders being a spy useless. so why is Will so important to Vecna? It was confirmed by the duffers that we’ll finally see why Will was taken, confirming that it wasn’t just a simple accident like it was portrayed as in season one. And here’s the one reason I can think of:

Will has powers, and Vecna needs them. Maybe not powers in the traditional stranger things hand-raised-bloody-nosed sense, but maybe in a way that’s a bit more like Kali? Something creative. Most powered individuals in stranger things usually make things levitate and mess with objects/minds and can enter the void, but I think Will’s has something to do with his position in the party. Something more abstract, which we know is possible since Kali has powers totally different from El’s. His powers may even play into him being an artist.

We have already seen him using true sight, though I’d argue that it’s actually shadow walking or shadow step, an ability used by clerics in DnD to teleport in shadows (the upside down in this scenario). If he was just seeing flashes of the upside down, the mind flayer wouldn’t have been able to reach him. His soul was genuinely partly in the upside down. (It’s also why he was able to hide so well while down there- and why Jonathan said Will could hide anywhere to hopper in season one- clerics can naturally conceal themselves in shadows, so he could camouflage himself to the upside down better than most).

Will is, throughout the show, consistently being compared to his DnD classes (be that cleric or wizard depending on the characters POV or timeframe). I’d argue he’s paralleled to and called his DnD character more so than any other character, both in merch and onscreen. that’s important because his DnD character HAS POWERS (magic class user), and the duffers been spending all this time building up to the reveal of it in season five. you could say that’s purely coincidental, but if we call back to season two, Mike tells Max that Dustin is the bard, wills the cleric, lucas is the ranger, he’s the paladin, and that el is their MAGE.

mages are wizards. Wizards in DnD gain their powers through intense study and training (El spent her life in the lab dedicated to honing her powers with Papa) and clerics (Will) get their powers from a connection to some divine entity or dimension/creature (Aka the upside down) and whatever new powers Will gained he got from his overexposure to both the upside down and the mind flayer.

what’s interesting though is that even though Will is a cleric, Will calls HIMSELF a wizard, aka “Will the Wise” multiple times both in the show and in comics, and Mike is the one who’s still calling him the cleric.

This could mean that Will’s supernatural plot for season five COULD play into him being a multiclass, and having elements from both his cleric role with Mike and his own self-identifying role as a wizard play into his powers and association to Vecna.

Regardless, Will’s character (be it cleric or wizard) is associated with the light class. It’s why he can use fireballs and cast light spells (use the lights in the upside down). You know what Vecna is called in season four?

a dark wizard. Vecna is the character foil to Will’s (and El’s) light wizard. You know what wills character can cast? Fireballs! What hurts the upside down? Fire. Alongside that, Will clearly has a connection to the gates as well (hence interdimensional cleric powers), and I think it’ll have something to do with Vecna’s leaked line of Will being a builder with him. “We are going to do such beautiful things together, Will, such beautiful things…”

Vecna could need Will’s potential ability to bring the upside down fully into Hawkins, especially since he’s weakened. As we’ve seen in BTS photos, Hawkins hasn’t fully merged into the upside down yet. If the infection of Hawkins slowed to a near stop, Vecna will need Will’s ability to bleed the two worlds together (seen in season one when he nearly opened a gate in the wall of his home), and he’ll do that by trying to appeal himself to their shared experiences over being different, another nod to them being character foils.

(physical evidence of them being FOILs >> their identical drawings)

if henry’s appeal to their similarities doesn’t work, then that might be how a possession could come into play, and Vecna will try to turn Will into a puppet again if he refuses to become his secondhand.

And that’s what’s going to make Vecna fail. He’s going to underestimate Will’s support system. While they’re clearly two sides of the same coin and henry knows that, Will has love and support and family, whereas henry distanced himself from and killed everyone while under the influence of the flayers particles in his system.

That’s a big recurring theme in stranger things; that love conquers all. (Which could be how Will unlocks his powers in season five but that’s another story)

It’s how Max narrowly evaded her death time and time again- she both imagined her happiest moments with lucas and El and latched onto it. Will HAS that in Joyce, in Jonathan, in Dustin, in Lucas, in El, in Hopper, in Mike, but Vecna thinks he doesn’t, because WILL doesn’t think so either. At least not yet.

it’s glaringly obvious that despite being surrounded by people in seasons 2 and onward, Will feels terrifyingly alone. Nobody else has gone through what he has. He feels like he has no one in his corner, especially in season four when Mike pulled away. But part of his “coming of age” as the duffers called it for season five will most likely be his realization that he isn’t alone, that there’s people who unconditionally love and support him through it all, and I think that’ll tie into byler’s relationship blossoming too.

on a more legitimate analysis note, I’ve seen a lot of people comparing Will’s scream of “RUN!!!” to his scream of pain while possessed as the upside down was torched. But to me, I think it was more of a direct callback to when the mind flayer showed up and he yelled “GO AWAY!” Over and over before the possession took place.

But what’s new is the anger in Will’s scream. He could be getting possessed and telling his friends to save themselves, OR he’s fighting back against something while telling his friends to RUN. That’s will, retaliating against whatever he’s looking at above him. Fully surrendering himself to the danger rather than trying to make it disappear. He’s terrified, but also determined and so incredibly angry. (and his eyes are green, not brown like when he’s possessed) He’s not screaming for the monster to leave out of pure terror like his possession in season two, but actively fighting and intentionally putting himself in harms way.

It’s both a significant showing of his character growth and in my opinion a hint that he’s not being unwillingly possessed, but rather giving himself up as a target while someone escapes. A sacrifice. But logically, that only works if he’s important enough to be worthy of that much attention to Vecna. he has something valuable, or is at least significant enough of a threat to warrant that much distraction to save everyone else (him having powers). Honestly, I’m hoping his abilities tie into the creation of the upside down. It’s clear now that there’s a border on the edge of the pocket dimension, like a literal snapshot of Hawkins, and I think it’d be cool to tie in his position as an artist and cleric/wizard into the creation of the upside down alongside El and Henry’s contributions. Among other things, electrical/light centered powers and interdimensional travel powers seem more likely to happen but I think it would be dope to see how that plays out.

ANYWAYS I have more to say but I’m tired maybe I’ll post more later

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claim before the ga starts saying they're will fans

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Unconditionally accept nonbinary identities. I am no longer asking