bookqueenrules

[bookqueenrules]

Gimple Just Threw Us A Bone!

A lot of this is the same stuff from my previous post here UNTIL about 22 minute mark. The interviewer asks about good/tough scenes.

Norman responds with "the pit" scene between Daryl and Rick, the Merle scene(I think the death one), and of course "tons" with MMB.

MMB mentions the Sophia barn scene (the original) and The Grove. She says to Gimple something like you and Angela Kang wrote that right?

Gimple turns to Norman and says that Kang wrote STILL! Why did Gimple bring up Still when neither Norman nor Melissa did! Watch the LONG look between Gimple and Norman. It's like they are trying HARD to keep a straight face. WE ARE SO GETTING BETHYL!

Then, Gimple drops that Andy Lincoln came down to Spain while Gimple was there, and they went out to dinner in Santiago de Compostela. Really Gimple, Santiago De Compostela? Not Madrid? This is the town where St. James is reported to be buried, and it is at the end of the pilgrimage. I wrote about that here.

They talk about season 3 again being a "Western", but that season 4 "evolves" which further gives the impression that probably won't see/hear Beth until the end of season 3.

Norman again says that the ending is "hard to explain"(because he can't mention Beth or a love interest without people freaking), but satisfying (because Daryl gets his happy ending with Beth!)

Thoughts?

[bookqueenrules]

SDCC Interviews Are(Somewhat) Surprising And Very Good For Us!

Here are four of interviews I found(I will edit this post to add the Collider interview when it is posted on YouTube)

Key takeaways:

The series was always going to have a very "specific' ending. (That is GREAT for us! Daryl's happy ending has always been planned and it has always been Beth, of course.)

At 6:25 they talk about how Daryl and Carol will never REALLY" lose, lose" each other. They make a joke about not "misplacing each other".

I NEVER thought I would say this, but these interviews are giving me Carol *MAY* stay in Spain with Antonio vibes. I always thought that Carol would return to be part of the big reunion, but as @twdmusicboxmystery has mentioned in several of her videos, TPTB will let an actor out of their contract if they want. It seems to me that MMB may have been ready to end things when the flagship ended, but agreed(or was contractually bound) to come back for the spin-off. Symbolically, if you look at the hallway at Grady, of the two members of Team Family take by Grady people, only one of them moved forward with Team Family to next location. So, maybe this time, it will be Beth.

Of course, it may just be them separating when they get back to the U.S.

Though they have an idea of what will happen, the last two scripts have not been written yet. (I'm sure they have a detailed outline, but maybe the dialogue has not been written?)

The ending will be "satisfying" for the audience, according to Norman.

This TV Insider is a great one for Carol's character arc and where her story is going which is very different than Daryl. Carol is more ready to move on to "living", but Daryl is more haunted. It really seems to confirm that Antonio/Carol will be a real romance.

This Entertainment Weekly interview is a little longer. While they are dancing around the topic, it is pretty obvious that they had the "Spain" story outlined. Then, they had to make changes to end the whole series at the end of season 4. I remember last year that there were online rumors of major script changes and reshoots in the middle of season filming season 3, so maybe that was the timing of AMC's decision.

Gimple talks about seeing Daryl and Carol again. Of course, he doesn't commit, but says he "thinks about it." Watch MMB's face.

Gimple corrects the interviewer on calling a reunion an "Endgame" reunion. He references "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" and "7 Samurai". I know nothing about either movie, so that maybe something to research!

Norman mentions Herschel multiple times in these interviews. He often does, but I don't recall it ever being this consistent.

According to Norman, the ending will be "surprising" and it won't "end how people think it will".

Altruism versus selfishness is an overarching theme along with living versus surviving.

Daryl and Carol are maturing as characters.

There is a lot of "evolution".

There are multiple love stories in Season 3. Two young couples, and Carol/Antonio are mentioned. (Do you really think everyone else is going to get a love story BUT Daryl??? It's his series and his happy ending!!!!)

Episode 5 will be their version a of Spaghetti Western.(the motorcycle shoot out?)

They filmed in a real haunted city in the desert. (Leper colony?)

Zabel said old viewers who tuned out long ago could return and easily follow the story.

NONE of what was discussed would rule out Beth. The idea that the series ALWAYS had a "specific" ending really confirms everything TD has always thought.

It was always leading to Daryl's happy ending with Beth.

Question:

Does anyone know what Gimple is wearing????

Norman calls Spain "very Miles Davis". I remember that last year Zabel also mentioned Miles Davis. Hmm....might be something to research.

[bookqueenrules]

"Daryl Dixson" Ending After Four Seasons Might Be A REALLY Good Thing......

Could this be a foreshadow of "our" and Daryl's happy ending at the end of season 4?

I remember hearing Zabel/Gimple talking over the last couple of years and thinking, "Wow, they intend to really drag this story out." I posted about it here.

Remember MMB saying just last year, "spin-offs forever"?

At the panel yesterday, Zabel said, "We talked about filming in Africa or places...chatter about places like Morocco and other places, wondering what the apocalypse looks like there."

So, it sounds like they had plans for more seasons, but AMC pulled the plug on this spin-off which seemed to be "Ride: Touring the Apocalypse with Daryl and Carol".

I also believe that Daryl's happy ending(aka Beth) was always the planned ending, but they were in no hurry to get there.

So, why the change? Here is a screenshot of the annual revenue for AMC Networks. You will see that they have lost over half a billion in revenue since 2019.

AMC needs something to increase revenue NOW. I'm sure filming around the world is expensive. DC is filming in Massachusetts due to the expense of filming in New York City.

TWD franchise, though not what it once was, is still the best thing AMC has going.

So, how to decrease costs and attract viewers?

What do fans really want? Daryl's happy ending.

So, have Daryl and Carol come home. Carol, and whoever else is with them, goes to the Commonwealth, but Daryl decides to go with Beth to find Maggie.

This idea would be supported by Lauren Cohen's comments about Maggie having a big "light at the end of the tunnel" coming in her story arc. Reuniting with Beth and Daryl(and, of course, fixing her relationship with Herschel) would be that.

So, we may end up getting Daryl and Beth together EARLIER with the possibility of MORE Daryl and Beth centric stories.

TPTB know that viewers still want a romance and family for Daryl. I don't believe they will end the series as a whole without that pay off.

We KNOW that this decision has caused them to rewrite/rework the next two seasons.

How?

Last year, Zabel said season 3 was going to be 6 episodes. Now, it's going to be 7 with season 4 being 8. So, we also know that the story had to reworked to wrap up this part of the series.

They had to add Daryl's "happy ending" in order to fulfill the premise of the spin-off. Now, they have to do it sooner than they probably planned.

So, after the initial shock, I actually think this could be VERY good for us.

Thoughts?

[bookqueenrules]

"Daryl Dixson" to End After 8 Episode Season 4

I wonder how much AMC's money problems factored into this decision. Their earnings last year were just awful. I remember last year Gimple and Zabel referring to "other places" for seasons 5 and 6.

How will this factor into Beth's return? Since the whole point, as stated in DD 1x1 is Daryl's happy ending, I think we will definitely see her by the end of the spin-off. Otherwise, what was the point?

Some other tidbits:

Season 3 will be 7 episodes.

Season 4 will be 8 episodes.

Carol/Antonio are being teased as a romance.

Romain Levi(Codron) was seen on set yesterday filming with Daryl/Carol doubles.

Daryl will grieve for Isabelle.

It definitely sounds like their plans have been reworked to speed up the timeline which might end up working in our favor. Everyone was hedging but implying that the story would not end at the end of Season 4, just this spin-off.

[bookqueenrules]

Another One-Eyed Character's Return(Maybe). Does It Indicate That Another OG Character Will Reappear?

Rumor, it is JUST a rumor at this point, is that Codron and Maribelle will appear DDS4.

If true, this is VERY significant. There is a pattern that connects these one-eyed Sirius characters to an OG character reuniting with Team Family. They are the "stars" pointing to a return.

Here are two previous examples:

First is the TWD original Sirius character, the Govenor.

After his defeat by Team Family, he was off screen for a number of episodes. When he meets up with Team Family again, he kidnaps Herschel and Michonne. Then, he arrives to take over the prison in 4x8 "Too Far Gone". During those episodes, an OG character was missing from the group. The audience had no idea where she was or when she would return. Carol! Carol had been banished by Rick for killing Karen and David. We saw her drive away with no idea if/when she would return. Carol returns after the prison falls and the governor is killed when she finds Tyreese and the girls. Then, she reunites with the rest of TF at Terminus.

Another example occurred in TWOL when Father Gabriel's return signified Rick's return to his family!

I believe the reason why they included Father Gabriel in TOWL was to fulfill this symbolism. They needed a one-eyed Sirius character to reappear, just like the Dog Star, before Rick could be reunited with his family. Think of it like this, when TOWL had so little time to tell the story of Rick and Michonne's EPIC reunion AND bring some kind of ending to the CRM, why waste so much time with the Jadis/Gabriel flashbacks if not for the symbolism?

Now, Codron returns(maybe) in Season 4?

Actually, it seems that may be being set up in the first few minutes of Season 3 and tied into Beth. Who are Daryl and Carol talking about when Carol is holding the hot dog can that she wants to save for a "celebration" or a "trade"(like at Grady)? CODRON!

Here is @frangipanilove's excellent post about the hot dog/Sirius symbolism. In this post, she includes links that will get you caught up on all the Sirius symbolism in case you are unfamiliar. She is the expert for sure!

I would bet that Codron shows up before Beth reunites with Daryl which I believe will happen sometime in the second half of season 4. That doesn't mean that we, the audience, won't know or highly suspect that Beth is alive at the end of season 3.

Look at the Daryl/Carol reunion as a template. We HEARD Carol in 1x05, saw her going after Daryl in 1x6, and finally reuniting in 2x4. I expect something similar, but probably not exactly the same, to happen with Beth. They will want the audience to ANTICIPATE the reunion. That's why I think we will know/have a strong clue that Beth is alive at the end of Season 3.

As we saw with the Govenor and Father Gabriel, Beth doesn't NECESSARILY have to actually interact with Codron to fulfill the symbolism, but in this case, I think Codron just might be a bridge that helps Beth find Daryl and Carol.

This part is JUST head cannons with a little bit of symbolism thrown in.

The symbolism would indicate that it is BETH that finds DARYL Here's why:

*Daryl teaches Beth how to track( giving her the skill to find him one day)

*Jesus (aka resurrected person like Beth) goes after Daryl when he is taken by the Saviors in 7x8

*Daryl leaves the find me note in "Find Me" that says, "I belong with you. Find me."

On somewhat, but not really, of a sidenote, with Emily posting about "Easy Street" (The song they played to torture Daryl in the cell), all the talk about Rick and Daryl reuniting, and the Jesus' resurrection symbolism in Dead City that I posted about here, I decided to rewatch the episode where Daryl and Rick reunite at Hilltop in 7x08. HOLY COW!! I saw a TON of foreshadowing there. I wanted to see if TDers at the time picked up on it, so I went to the Queen of the TD archives on @twdmusicboxmystery's blog. Boy, when people ask what TD has been right about, REFER THEM TO THIS POST! She predicted Rosita's death from her analysis of this episode! What great work @twdmusicboxmystery has done for this fandom!

Back to the main topic..... Again this is all just head cannon at this point.......

How will this all connect to what is going on in Spain?

Communication is key! I am sure that a radio transmission, or with all the Wild West vibe in Spain, maybe a telegraph, or maybe both, will be involved in Beth tracking Daryl and Carol. This was foreshadowed in DD 1x1 when Isabelle tells Daryl that the last person she talked to on the radio at the abbey was a SPAINARD about a month earlier. So, we know there has been radio contact between France and Spain.

Having both Codron AND Maribelle reappear indicates that Codron may have made his way back to the South of France after escaping the tunnel, and he confronts her about killing his brother.

Wouldn't it be interesting if Beth is around to hear Codron talking about Daryl? I also wouldn't put it past TPTB to have Laurent and Ash end up in the South of France as well. Maybe the plane malfunctioned, and they landed in the South of France because it would be safer for Laurent? Just a thought.

If Ash and Laurent actually made it back to The Commonwealth. could Rick contact, possibly with that telegraph, a CRM outpost or spies in France, like the ones General Beale told Rick about at his "briefing"? Could that outpost/spy network contain Beth? A little far-fetched, but this is The Walking Dead.

Since I just rewatched 7x8, I know that in that episode at Rick's house in Alexandria there was a big wall chart of MORSE CODE which is how a telegraph transmits its message. Again, head cannon with a touch of possible symbolism.

There is some foreshadowing of Codron meeting and possibly developing a crush on Beth in episode 2x6 when Codron and Fallou enter an old hospital and come across a blonde walker tied to a wheelchair.

Codron had been teasing Fallou about Akila calling it "love at first sight". When they see this walker, Fallou responds with, "that's your girl". Saying this about a blonde found at a hospital? Well, that could definitely foreshadow Beth.

The question I keep coming back to is how will Beth discover Daryl and Carol are in Europe? There are a million ways this could go, but upon learning that Codron and Maribelle will be returning, I can't help but think that Beth may have been in France the entire time Daryl was there. I even theorized here that Codron would be connected to Beth's return because of the pocket watch symbolism.

Thoughts?

[bookqueenrules]

I wanted to reblog this with some more observations.

Thanks to @4thenorthstar for reminding me about the Gematria. As we know a lot, if not most, of the symbolism was and is maintained by Gimple who has said in the past that he is a practicing Jew. So, he would understand Hebrew which is a system where numbers have alphabetic meaning. It's called Gematria.

This also works for the Grady clock.

She wakes up at 5:18. 18 meaning LIFE! So, 18 is definitely Beth's lucky number.

I am also wondering if 17 in TWD means almost alive but not quite. In TWOL episode 3, Rick sets up Michonne to leave without him. What time is on his watch?

Later, Rick will explain to Michonne how he had "lost" his family. He no longer saw Carl or Michonne even in his dreams. Rick doesn't want to leave with Michonne at first because he couldn't face losing them again. He explains this and then, of course, changes his mind in the next episode, 1x4. So, the 17 here means Rick is almost, but not yet, alive again emotionally.

So, Nicotera says that there were 17 days between 5x8 and 5x9 which would mean that Beth has almost returned to life but not yet. She comes back, symbolically at least, one episode later, at the end of 5x10, when the music box wakes up.

Why 11:05 Might Really Mean 2:18 and 18 Might Be Beth's Magic Number.

Big Ben is featured so prominently in the DD Season 3 promo just released that I knew the time on the clock must mean something important. I think there are multiple possibilities, and we won't know for sure until plays out, but I have some possible theories as to what it might mean. As always, I would love any feedback you have.

At first, I thought it might just symbolize season three. 1+1+the 1:00 second would equal three.

Then, I thought that each hand is one moment away from the 10 and the 2 which we all know was on the "Get Well" clock behind Beth at Grady. Possibly meaning that we are one season away from Beth's complete reemergence from being "gone" just like in Slabtown when we see the 10:10 or 10:2 clock.

However, I hit on something not quite so obvious but incredibly cool when I decided to watch 11x05 of the flagship!

In that episode we get our first real glimpse as to what life is like in the Commonwealth. There are THREE clocks shown prominently in the Commonwealth during that episode and guess what time each shows? 2:18!

The first is in Hornsby's Commonwealth video:

Then, there are TWO separate clocks shown during Miko's miraculous reunion after more than a decade with her brother, Tomi.

The Miko and Tomi reunion is not the only miraculous return in 11x05.

At the end of 11x05 it's a former Whisper that tells Carol and the others that he has seen Connie, though he doesn't know her name, alive.

The clocks pointing to 2:18 in 11x05 might have been pointing the resurrections of BOTH Rick and Beth. In fact, I wonder if the 2 might represent two characters returning and not Season 2? Tomi and word of Connie in the episode but the returns of the original "18 Miles Out" character, Rick and Beth, in the future.

I wonder Michonne was looking for Rick for 18 months before she found him? By the end of season 3 is should be somewhere around 18 months since Daryl originally left the Commonwealth looking for "something" before the time jump at the very end of the flagship.

Remember that season 2 only had 13 episodes, so there is no 2x18 episode, but 2x10 was called "18 Miles Out". It is a Beth/Rick episode where Beth tries to commit suicide, and Shane tries to kill Rick. So, both of them survive things that could have been fatal. In season 2's "18" episode.

In the DD spin-off we have seen 18 specifically called out more than once. I posted about it here along with speculation about how that number is connected to being not too far gone to return.

In DD season 1 there were 18 kids at the school in DD1x2.

There were 18 seconds before the walker broke free of its chains in DD1x3.

Most recently we saw the number 18 on the Rockaway Towing Truck in DC 2.

I wrote about his whole sequence being a Beth survival allegory here.

In case you may think the clock times are just random, here is one example. In episode 2x11, after checking on Beth, Herschel and Glenn talk. Hershel talks about Glenn being a father himself one day. Hershel then gives Glenn his watch as a sign of his approval of Maggie and Glen. Notice it says 6:20 or 6x4. It's in 6x4, when Maggie is searching for Glen, that she reveals to Aaron that she is pregnant making a Glen a father at 6x4.

When Glen takes the watch out just before his death fakeout in 6x3 what time does it show?

2:11 or 2x11 as a call back to the episode when he received it.

I saved the best for last!

So, which episode will be episode 18 of the Daryl Dixson spin-off?

Why 3x6 will EPISODE 18! Beth avoided death in "18 Miles Out" episode 2x10. At Grady she "resurrected" a second time with a pointing to 10 and 2 behind her in reverse of 2x10. Will her third "resurrection" be in the 18th episode?

I don't know, but I am hopefully that we will at least get a huge clue or hint by the end of that episode! It would definitely fulfill the "18 Miles Out" symbolism.

@atrumreginablue

[bookqueenrules]

Why 11:05 Might Really Mean 2:18 and 18 Might Be Beth's Magic Number.

Big Ben is featured so prominently in the DD Season 3 promo just released that I knew the time on the clock must mean something important. I think there are multiple possibilities, and we won't know for sure until plays out, but I have some possible theories as to what it might mean. As always, I would love any feedback you have.

At first, I thought it might just symbolize season three. 1+1+the 1:00 second would equal three.

Then, I thought that each hand is one moment away from the 10 and the 2 which we all know was on the "Get Well" clock behind Beth at Grady. Possibly meaning that we are one season away from Beth's complete reemergence from being "gone" just like in Slabtown when we see the 10:10 or 10:2 clock.

However, I hit on something not quite so obvious but incredibly cool when I decided to watch 11x05 of the flagship!

In that episode we get our first real glimpse as to what life is like in the Commonwealth. There are THREE clocks shown prominently in the Commonwealth during that episode and guess what time each shows? 2:18!

The first is in Hornsby's Commonwealth video:

Then, there are TWO separate clocks shown during Miko's miraculous reunion after more than a decade with her brother, Tomi.

The Miko and Tomi reunion is not the only miraculous return in 11x05.

At the end of 11x05 it's a former Whisper that tells Carol and the others that he has seen Connie, though he doesn't know her name, alive.

The clocks pointing to 2:18 in 11x05 might have been pointing the resurrections of BOTH Rick and Beth. In fact, I wonder if the 2 might represent two characters returning and not Season 2? Tomi and word of Connie in the episode but the returns of the original "18 Miles Out" character, Rick and Beth, in the future.

I wonder Michonne was looking for Rick for 18 months before she found him? By the end of season 3 is should be somewhere around 18 months since Daryl originally left the Commonwealth looking for "something" before the time jump at the very end of the flagship.

Remember that season 2 only had 13 episodes, so there is no 2x18 episode, but 2x10 was called "18 Miles Out". It is a Beth/Rick episode where Beth tries to commit suicide, and Shane tries to kill Rick. So, both of them survive things that could have been fatal. In season 2's "18" episode.

In the DD spin-off we have seen 18 specifically called out more than once. I posted about it here along with speculation about how that number is connected to being not too far gone to return.

In DD season 1 there were 18 kids at the school in DD1x2.

There were 18 seconds before the walker broke free of its chains in DD1x3.

Most recently we saw the number 18 on the Rockaway Towing Truck in DC 2.

I wrote about his whole sequence being a Beth survival allegory here.

In case you may think the clock times are just random, here is one example. In episode 2x11, after checking on Beth, Herschel and Glenn talk. Hershel talks about Glenn being a father himself one day. Hershel then gives Glenn his watch as a sign of his approval of Maggie and Glen. Notice it says 6:20 or 6x4. It's in 6x4, when Maggie is searching for Glen, that she reveals to Aaron that she is pregnant making a Glen a father at 6x4.

When Glen takes the watch out just before his death fakeout in 6x3 what time does it show?

2:11 or 2x11 as a call back to the episode when he received it.

I saved the best for last!

So, which episode will be episode 18 of the Daryl Dixson spin-off?

Why 3x6 will EPISODE 18! Beth avoided death in "18 Miles Out" episode 2x10. At Grady she "resurrected" a second time with a pointing to 10 and 2 behind her in reverse of 2x10. Will her third "resurrection" be in the 18th episode?

I don't know, but I am hopefully that we will at least get a huge clue or hint by the end of that episode! It would definitely fulfill the "18 Miles Out" symbolism.

@atrumreginablue

[bookqueenrules]

How the Season 5 Replay Will Play Out in Daryl Dixson Season 3 **Spoilers**

By the end of Daryl Dixson Season 1, I noticed that some of the plot and theme elements of the episodes were mirroring Season 5 of the flagship.

I first posted about it here. I noticed that the end of season 1 was much like episodes 5x1 and 5x2 of the flagship. I predicted what we might see in season 2 most of which played out as I predicted. I still think we may find out that at least one of the French cast had some type of contact with Beth and/or her group!

In DD season 2, we saw parts of 5x3 Four Walls and a Roof , 5x5 Self- Help, 5x8 Coda, and 5x9 What's Happening What's Going On? replayed.

5x3-Four Walls and a Roof played out with the Nest storyline in DD 2x1-2x3

5x4- Slabtown- This episode is out of chronological order. Chronologically, this episode should have been 4x13 right after Alone. I believe we will get a replay of some of the season 4 episodes after Beth returns. Slabtown, or information about her groups and where she has been, will happen after the season 5 replay.

The 5x5 Self-Help replay was the Laurent as the "cure" storyline. Everyone was looking to him to be this savior/ cure for the virus which would allow them to go back to the way things were. This is much like how the group in Self-Help saw Eugene as the savior with a cure for the Wildfire Virus. This leads Abraham to go to extreme measures to force getting Eugene to D.C. It's his mission, and he is fanatical about it. When Eugene confesses he lied and doesn't have the cure, Abraham is distraught. When Laurent is lost as the "cure" for those at the Nest, Losang and Jacinda become more violent and distraught with Jacinda actually killing herself. So, the loss of someone who is believed to have or who is the "cure" is the common theme.

So, where are we now and which episodes(plots and themes) should we be looking for before her return?

5x5- Consumed- Anytime Carol and Daryl are together during DD3, we will see this play out. In the first five minutes, they are already talking about the past, including before the turn, and their losses. Much of this seems to play out in the first few episodes. Instead of looking for Beth, they are looking for a way home.

SPOILERS BELOW !!!

DD Season 3 Cast:

5x6-Crossed- According to spoilers, a young woman named Justina, played by Candela Saitta, and possibly a young man, Roberto played by Hugo Arbues, are kidnapped. These two are seen helping helping Daryl and Carol into their village after the boat named "Knot Alone" is shipwrecked on the Spanish coast.

I expect Justina will be our Beth proxy for Spain. Her being taken echoes Beth be taken in Alone. Carol has been hurt in the shipwreck and aftermath, so Daryl and new character named Paz, played by Alexandra Masangkay, set out to rescue her. It appears that an injured Roberto is returned to the village or maybe is just hurt when Justina is taken. Either way, he stays with his father, Antonio, played by Eduardo Noriega and Carol. The father is the man you see with Carol in some of the teasers, so they will have some type of arc together. I believe at some point Daryl and Paz will need to negotiate with the girl's kidnappers, just like in Crossed. Oscar Jaenada, playing Fede, seems to be the one who has Justina. I expect him to be a Governor-like villain for reasons I will post about later. By episode 6, Justina is rescued and reunited with Roberto. Daryl and Carol's boat is fixed, but something happens that prevents them from leaving. Perhaps Carol is kidnaped? It is not known whether Daryl and Carol are together at the end of the season.

In Crossed, Daryl, Rick, Tyreese, Sasha, and Noah are trying to rescue Beth and Carol from Grady. They kidnap some of the Grady cops to trade them for Beth and Carol. So, going to rescue kidnaped group members will be the replay here except this time Daryl successfully rescues the Beth proxy, Justina.

5x8 Coda- replayed in DD2x4 with Isabelle'e death.

5x9-What's Happening What's Going On?

At the end of DD2 this is where Daryl is in his arc. They tell us this with the license plate on the yellow jeep. I posted about it here.

Daryl in 2x5 and 2x6 has been and probably will continue mirroring parts of Tyreese's arc into DD3(not Tyreese's ending obviously), but the processing of grief and questioning past decisions that occurs in 5x9. Interestingly, we also saw what may have happened to Beth's body which would be a part of 5x9 that we have yet to see. The replay of this was in 2x5 as described by @frangipanilove in this post.

So, this was replayed in DD 2x5 and 2x6, but may continue into season three. Daryl and Carol both hallucinate at the end of 2x6 just like Tyreese did at the end of 5x9!

Really, we could do a deep dive into all of the symbolism in 5x9 and how it may apply to this season including the flashes of train tracks throughout the episode. We know that a HUGE train scene was filmed for this season.

5x10-Them- *****This is our target episode!!! This is where the "music box" aka Beth starts to play again. This is where the "miracle" storm takes place. This is where at least we, the audience, will know that Beth is alive!

A couple of things are already reminding me of this episode for season 3 mostly locations at this point.

Remember in 5x10 how they were searching for water most of the episode? Almost like being in a desert which is exactly where Daryl will be in Season 3.

Then, a storm hits and they take refuge in a barn. This location reminds me of that barn.

Team Family, by working together, keep the walker herd from getting in the barn. When the storm is over, Maggie and Sasha go outside to find destruction surrounding the barn. The barn is miraculously undamaged. As they look at the sunrise, Maggie takes out the music box given to her by Carl and fixed by Daryl. At first it doesn't play, then after Aaron arrives with his "good news" it miraculously starts playing on its own.

So, we are CLOSE! Whether it's the end of season 3, probably episode 6 for a variety of reasons, or into season 4, we are at the end of this very long road toward the return of Beth Greene!

[bookqueenrules]

Very Interesting! This was published YESTERDAY!

[bookqueenrules]

I have a couple of thoughts about the color and number changes.

Yellow is definitely a Beth color and seems to be used throughout the TWDU to symbolize a reunion/resurrection. The number nine might indicate when this celebration/reunion will happen.

It stuck in my mind that Zabel say he sees DD seasons 1 and 2 really as one whole story divided into two parts. So, he looks at it as really a twelve episode story arc. So, in this "new season" in Spain, which would be seasons 3 and 4 to us, the celebration/reunion may happen in episode nine, or season 4 episode 3.

Even if I am correct, that doesn't mean that the audience wouldn't know that Beth is alive before then. It would just mean episode 9 would be when Carol and/or Daryl first see her.

The DD s3 opening Hot Dogs

Based on frangipan's post about the opening dialogue: Pretty sure from this screenshot we can see 'Ye Ancient'. We can also see a number 9.

After some quick googling this is what I believe the tin is based on. It refers to OAK (acorns), it's a Green(e) label, and also the usual numbers of sausages are 6 or 8 so there must be something significant to the 9 on Carol's tin.

[bookqueenrules]

Interesting Comments By Lauren Cohan and Scott Gimple and Spin-Offs' Timelines

This part in particular:

When you take this with Gimple's recent comments:

To me, these two interviews just confirm that AMC is going to milk these spin-offs for a good long while. It's difficult to know how successful(or not) these shows actually are because they don't publicize streaming numbers. However, what we can say is that based on AMC reporting the biggest upticks in AMC+ subscriptions are just before the spin-offs air, that TWDU is still the best thing going for AMC whose latest financial report wasn't good.

So, despite what some say, we have YEARS left in this spin-off era. It's been evident that the spin-offs are not getting "renewed" each year as would be the case normally. There is a plan in place for multiple seasons, and it's being executed. Gimple saying in the interview above that the spin-off are "getting established" is just more confirmation.

So, how long? My speculation would be that they will want the reunion show, whatever that may look like, to air in 2030 so that they can get all the publicity from a "20 years of The Walking Dead" reunion.

So, what would that mean for the DD spin-off and Daryl's happy ending aka Beth?

If we play it out, 2025- DD3 airs, 2026-DD4 airs, 2027-DD5 airs, 2028- DD6 airs, 2029 DD7 airs.

DD7- They will make it back at least to America.

DD5and6- Daryl and Beth work through obstacles to become a couple. I am sure that there will both internal and external obstacles to overcome.

DD3 and DD4- Somewhere in these two season the audience will need to know that Beth is alive so that we can anticipate the reunion.

Will it be in the last moments of season 3 or will they stretch it to the end of season 4?

I'm not sure(there are some possible signs that I'll post later), but I am still sure that Beth will return and will be part of his happy ending and Maggie's!

The return has been stretched out by the network for their own financial reasons.

There are too many signs, symbols, and plain realities to ignore. If you haven't watched the first 5 minutes of DD Season 3 on AMC+, be sure to check it out. Daryl talks again about missing out on something. The first two season were clearly setting the audience up to see that what he missed out on was A FAMILY OF HIS OWN! We also saw that he is now ready for and is wanting an intimate partner.

His own family is his happy ending. It won't be with Carol, it won't be with a random girl he picks up during his European adventure, it will be with Beth Greene! You don't have to bet on hope, bet on Beth Greene!

[bookqueenrules]

Article with DD Season 3 premiere date and season 3 character.

[bookqueenrules]

Thanks for tagging me! It was an interesting article, and I do have some thoughts.

Non-TDers would say that they put out articles all the time about dead characters, which is true, but how how many articles do you read tying Sasha or Tyreese or Abraham or even Glen to the emotional arc of the current characters?

Few, if any.

I would also say that there are more Beth centric articles than the others. Why?

I believe it is AMC sanctioned/encouraged press.

It's obvious that this article is reminding readers of Beth's connection to two of the central characters of the current spin-offs. The article reminds the reader of the grief they both endured from her death. I'll get back to this in a minute.

If you think about the arcs of the main characters of the spin-offs, most of them have been fulfilled. In fact, in order to create drama, the writers have been forced to reopen arcs that were closed during the flagship.

This has lead to FRUSTRATION among many fans. The stories feel tired and stale because the emotional arcs that characters had completed are being reopened. The story feels pointless and old at times because of this.

Here is what I mean:

Negan- had his redemption arc from evil leader to a humbled contributing community member. He even had a functional, loving relationship. Now it appears that they are trying to reopen this arc to have something to write for him.

Carol- had overcome Sophia's loss enough to be the happiest we had ever seen her with Henry and Zeke. She had years of her "happy ending" creating the loving family she didn't get with Ed and Sophia. They had to reopen this arc in order to write anything for her.

Rick and Michonne- Rick's arc was all about finding his family. As he said in season 9, "I found them." Michonne's was about letting go of her first family and opening her heart to another. These arcs were completed. TOWL was interesting because an external force, the CRM, forced their arcs to reopened. The mysterious time away made the viewer interested in seeing how they would overcome this external conflict to close their arcs again.

Negan and Carol's arcs are more internal. Even though Negan was kidnapped, he can still determine his own actions. This is why, in my opinion, as much as I love watching Negan, his emotional journey is not gripping and too much focus on it leads the viewer to boredom. We have seen it before. Same with Carol. Their best use now is to support Daryl and Maggie in the completion of their arcs.

Daryl and Maggie's arcs are incomplete. So, their stories need to drive these spin-offs in order for it to be interesting.

Daryl needs to find his "happy ending" by creating the loving family he never had. He will fulfill this through a loving, intimate relationship and becoming the father he never had.

Maggie needs to let go and allow herself to truly connect to others again. As she said herself in DC season 1, " There were only a few people I ever cared anything about in this world." She has lost them all except Hershel. The pain and fear of further loss kept her emotionally distant from Hershel. For the first time in 2x04 she expresses that even though she seems tough on the outside, she's terrified all the time. Of what? More pain and loss. When she lets go and allows herself to be happy again, her arc will be complete.

Who is the one character that could help BOTH Daryl and Maggie complete their arcs??

BETH!

This article reminds us of this. Both spin-offs have given us massive Beth symbolism. I do believe that Beth will eventually, before the end of this spin-off era, be part of both Maggie and Daryl's closing arcs.

Weird Article about Beth

Hello guys, it's been a while since I posted anything!

Idk if someone else already covered this, (let me know if that's the case) but I found an article that was written about a month ago, and it seems pretty interesting.

I feel like it talks about stuff we have always talked about, obviously, but I don't think I've ever read it in an article. It mentions how Dawn shooting her in the head was accidental ( and they highlighted this part), the famous "I've survived and you don't get it" line, and then it talks about how literally no one mentions Beth ever again after s5, although they missed s10(?) When Maggie is talking with Daryl, even though it was only a slight mention.

It also mentions that Daryl still wears her shoelaces 🤧

I'll attach some screenshots, but it's worth reading it all.

Thoughts? @twdmusicboxmystery @bookqueenrules

[bookqueenrules]

Breaking Down the Beth Survival Allegory in DC 2x4

The events in Dead City season 2 episode 4 contained A LOT of symbolism tied to Beth, so I wanted to take a deeper look at some of it and in particular the event sequence surrounding the walker fight.  There is SO much in this episode that this is going to be quite the post, yet I will only be scratching the surface!

Let’s jump in from the first shot!  The Cadillac Deville the Croat, Negan, the Dama, and the historian(in the trunk) arrive in is our first cue to pay attention to this sequence. The camera shot here is important. In the screenshot above, you can clearly see two eights.  One as a number on the side of the car and one turned horizontal as an infinity symbol on top next to the spotlight. The angle here is intentional. They could just as easily have just filmed it from the front or back. This angle shows both the eights and the chevron symbol.  

Very briefly,  Cadillacs are seen in multiple critical scenes in TWD.  A Cadillac two door Coup de Ville is the car from Grady that kidnapped Beth in Alone. Carol and Daryl  use a Cadillac Seville to follow the Grady car in 5x02, and Carol uses another one in DD 2x1 in Maine when she takes off to look for Daryl.

For more on that check out this post by @frangipanilove

Interestingly, the hose you see making the infinity symbol “8” in this shot is what is making the car run. We see it tied to the methane tank in the trunk where they have their prisoner tied up.  

Dama says, “Don’t forget anything in the car.” TD has theorized for years that Beth was left in car by TF, but when they returned, she was gone.  This has been mostly based on Maggie’s reactions in 5x9

You can easily see how having this young man tied up in the trunk is a call back to Maggie’s scenes in 5x9. I think we should keep our eye on him throughout the series as he may provide some more clues.  He is clearly not a seasoned warrior. He is a writer who found himself taken hostage by a group who thinks they are helping others/saving the world and that the ends justify the means.  There are definite Beth parallels in his story.

Going back to the car itself, the chevron with the 8 emblem was used to signify a V8 engine, but according to my research, that exact emblem was mostly used on cars made in the 1950s(all makes and models, not just Cadillacs). So, it seems like it may have been INTENTIONALLY added to this vehicle. Here are the more modern ways the chevron and the V8 are symbolized on Cadillacs. 

Extensive work has been done analyzing the Chevron symbolism by TDers.  Here is a link to a post with contributions from @wdway, @gadrieljones, and @twdmusicboxmystery.  

If you are not familiar with Chevron symbols here is a basic definition:

We see the chevron sweater in “Alone” and in “Coda” which were definitely bends in Beth's road.  The last time we saw the symbol was in DD2 when Daryl is looking for a working car.  The sign above has a chevron with an arrow through. It was in the garage where Daryl tries to convince an old man to let them borrow a car. 

Then, Negan makes his way to the tow truck with the walker inside.

The number 18 and the “Rockaway Towing” symbolism were discussed here. The number 18 is a call back to the Beth’s suicide episode “18 Miles Out”.  The “Rockaway Towing” is reminiscent of the “rock” or stone the rolled away from Jesus’ tomb indicating that he had resurrected and the body was no longer there. Notably, the walker has blood on his left temple, the same location where Beth was shot. 

At this point, Negan looks at the walker but does not let him out.  

He just moves on.

This early sequence is to cue us into the Beth symbolism. I think this first sequence symbolizes where Team Family, including Maggie, last saw Beth. To further support this, there is a fire department ambulance in the shot.  Maggie arrived at Grady Hospital in a fire truck.  Though we haven’t seen it, most likely Team Family used the fire truck when they took Beth from Grady. 

This opening sequence includes SO many of the things TDers have discussed and theorized about it is INSANE!  It's almost like it was written just for us! It’s such a set up to get us to pay attention to the rest of the sequence for clues about Beth.

I believe the next sequence around the “Last Supper” is meant to tie this survival allegory to the Daryl Dixson spin-off. Negan goes to the “Last Supper” meal of carrots and rats. I already discussed the carrot symbolism here, but the rats are also symbolic. There are multiple layers to the rat symbolism with much of it tied to NYC and the “rats” of Dead City.

However, since it is paired with the carrot, I think it is also tied to Beth. The rat being served is another rodent being eaten around art  work just like Beth served the guinea pig with a Carvaggio in the background to the doctor in 5x4 “Slabtown”.

There are some other ties specifically to France and the Daryl Dixson spin-off throughout the meal..  First, when the Dama pushes her plate away saying, “I hear raccoon au poivre is on the way.”  Using French is an obvious tie. Then, the historian recognizes the Dama and mentions the "king something theater" it will later by called the King Francis Theatre, tying it further to France as Francis was a King of France. King Francis I is known for supporting the French Renaissance, including getting Leonardo Da Vinci to make France his home in his final years and conducting the Italian Wars.  (I am seeing more signs that Daryl Dixson may be in Italy for Season 5)

There is no King Francis Theatre in New York, so this name was INTENTIONALLY chosen. There is a Kings Theatre, but it is in Brooklyn, not in Manhattan. Its décor is said to be inspired by the palace at Versailles, another French connection. Then, they hit you over the head with a nod to the Daryl Dixson spin-off when The Croat asks Brugel,

which is a clear reference to the walkers in Daryl Dixson.

If we see the initial sequence as tied to Beth in Season 5, then the meal with all its French references, ties us into the Daryl Dixson spin-off specifically. 

As the meal is taking place, Maggie has an interesting conversation with Herschel about memory.  Herschel shares details about the “lightning bug” story that Maggie never knew.  Lightning bugs are fireflies which were seen and discussed by Isabelle and Daryl in Daryl Dixson season 2 which is yet another tie in.

Then, Negan returns to the truck and opens the door letting the walker out as Maggie watches through binoculars. This is an especially important moment as it is the first time Maggie sees Negan this season. I think we are supposed to connect the story of the fireflies to the opening of the Rockaway Towing Truck #18. Maggie doesn’t know the part of the story where Beth leaves the vehicle and is “resurrected”.  As I am writing this, I have just watched DC 2x6.  The theme of “misremembering” is touched on again by Negan during his conversation with Maggie. I think this will apply directly to Beth and what happened after they left Grady.  Maggie is missing information and/or is not remembering everything correctly. Perhaps, Beth will also not remember the events correctly either. Maybe she was told her family abandoned her?  It may color how she interacts with Daryl and Carol at first when she sees them again. That impression was further strengthened by the Ginny/Narvaez conversation. Narvaez describes growing up surrounded by a large family in Jacksonville which is on the border of Florida/Georgia where Tyreese and Sasha were from.  Then, she says it was just her on her own for a long time which is similar to Beth having a large family and then being on her own. 

Negan then moves the “rock”, or in this case the door, away and gets his underdog walker.  He calls the walker his "champion".

I believe this next sequence is meant to show us HOW Beth survived all this time which will play into the storyline when she returns. 

First, is the repeated use of “the underdog” for the walker.  He is smaller and weaker than Brugel’s “Frankenstein” walker. 

Next, Negan refuses any armor for his “underdog” because nothing quite fits.

The only rule is that the BACK of the head must be exposed. Meaning that a death blow MUST come from the BACK of the head not the FRONT like Beth’s wound. 

So, how does this smaller, weaker walker with no armor almost win the fight(before Negan makes the decision to throw the fight letting Tony win)?  He is going to win by being too slippery to catch!  Negan takes what looks like a gas can out of the back of the truck.  Then, he pours what looks like oil, not gas, over the walker.  This allows the smaller, weaker walker with no armor to evade attacks and slip away. I see this as the end of the allegory relating to Beth and the Daryl Dixson spin-off. 

What does this last sequence mean for Beth’s return?  

First, the fact that something this detailed and exact played out during this season of Dead City gives me hope that at least the audience will see Beth at some point during season 3 of Daryl Dixson. The fact that it was Negan in particular who is choosing this walker as his "champion" may indicate that Beth has been with some “gray” characters and/or groups. 

So, how would she have been able to navigate those groups without losing herself?

 It is clear from the allegory presented through the “underdog” walker that she won’t return as some ninja warrior with incredible fighting skills. Yes, I am sure she will have some fighting skills, but her key to survival will have been being “slippery”. 

She will have used her wits to survive much like she did at Grady. Remember her “I’m not like Michonne, Maggie or Carol” speech?  She will have become a “champion” through evasion and strategy versus the open warfare experienced by the other three. 

Another way to look at the oil being poured over the walker's head is that in the Bible oil being poured over someone’s head meant that they were “anointed” by God for a specific purpose. David was anointed as a young man to be king over Israel, but it was many years before he actually became the king.  Perhaps, Beth has survived because she is “anointed” to play a specific role or for a specific purpose in the TWDU. 

I would love to know your thoughts on this! 

[bookqueenrules]

Interesting Article in Addition to Norman's Crazy Posts!

Check out this part in particular:

So, if 95% was filmed in Spain(don't forget that the "London" scenes were actually filmed in Spain) where was the other 5% filmed? Who might be in those scenes???????

This article came out today along with Norman posting that he is filming season 4, posting a Bethyl edit that he "loves", and posting two skeletons with the quote "love never dies" above them!

Crazy!!

[bookqueenrules]

@twdmusicboxmystery : Thanks for a another wonderful video! I had a couple of additional noticings.

Rockaway Towing:  The name reminds me of Jesus' resurrection story. When Christ is resurrected, the stone or “rock” has been moved away from the tomb. The number 18 on the truck is a callback to “18 Miles Out” which is Beth’s suicide attempt episode.  It is also the episode where we see the most interaction between Maggie and Beth. Interestingly, everything Beth predicts will when she is trying to convince Maggie to commit suicide with her actually does happen.  Another “prediction” of sorts is made by Andrea about Beth to Lori.  She says(sarcastically) that Lori should promise her(Beth) that one day she will have a husband, a little boy, a baby.....and a boyfriend just like Lori. I think we will eventually see some kind of fulfillment of this when Beth returns. This sequence with the tow truck really seemed to be Beth coded. Additionally, at the "Last Super" meal not only was the full grown carrot prominent, but Brugel loudly asks for more carrots which I think is intentionally pointing the carrots out to those of us who are looking for such things. It ties that sequence of scenes to Beth even further.

I am sure each piece of the art work has meaning as well. I haven't had the time to really research them, but I did take a look at a couple of the pieces. I only looked at two of them, but I discovered that neither are housed at the Met. So, they were chosen specifically for a symbolic purpose.

There was certainly some very interesting symbolism in this episode!

TD and Beth Symbolism in Dead City, S2, Ep 4: Fiesty Friendly

[bookqueenrules]

Our Queen of Carrots is Full Grown

When Beth was on our screens in season 4 carrots were around her twice. Interestingly, both times are "baby food" carrots.

In "Infected" when Judith spits up on her, and she practically forces Michonne to hold baby Judith for the first time:

Then, in "Alone" there are jars of baby food in a FUNERAL HOME. Odd choice. They appear to be carrots and bananas.(Bananas were discussed here in connection with DDS2 and possibly the Canary Islands in the future.)

Now, in both TOWL and Dead City there are full grown carrots. The first was held by a Beth doppelganger in the market.

The second we will see in Dead City Season 2. This was featured in a promo:

To me, this symbolizes that Beth is now fully grown and mature. Hopefully, we will see our fully grown Queen of Carrots soon.