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,,The best teacher is the one who helps the students become their own teacher...”

The french pianist David Fray - most well-known for interpreting the music of Bach - has returned to Budapest to perform the composer’s d-minor piano concerto in the Grand Hall of the Franz Liszt Academy of Music along with János Rolla and the Liszt Academy Chamber Orchestra on the 9th of February 2020. The day following his performance, David Fray held an informative and enjoyable masterclass for the students of the Academy. It’s been a while since he last held a masterclass in Hungary, in 2017, but as he told me in our previous interview a year ago, he always comes back to Budapest with great pleasure. Our conversation took place after the masterclass.

Bori Brindzik: Listening to your masterclass got me thinking about the matter of teaching. What main aspects do you have in mind when you approach a new student and what is your philosophy of teaching in general?

David Fray: I only truly got into teaching recently, about 4-5 years ago, because I got interested in it. In one hour - which is too short anyway - I’m trying to see what kind of precise advice I can give to the students about their pieces and also what sort of general guidance I can give them. My goal is trying to help them and make them grow, think and evolve. Sometimes they won’t retain anything of what I say. But from time to time, some of them will maybe think about it again, understand it a bit more and eventually get somethin out of it. At least, that’s what happened to me when I was a student and had some masterclasses with such artists as Badura-Skoda, Bashkirov and Pressler. Of course, it’s impossible to change the musicianship, the mind or the technique of somebody in just one hour. I can open doors for them, but after that it’s their choice to go through that door and take responsibility of the direction they take.

BB: Our teachers certainly influence our playing, but how can we develop a personal perspective while still appreciating and respecting our teachers’ opinions and advices?

DF: For my own part, I’ve noticed that when you have the same teacher for years and years, after a while you don’t really listen to their advices in the same way anymore, even though you’re aware of them. Maybe if a foreign artist tells you the same things, but a bit differently, putting them into different words and showing you different examples, what your teacher usually says can appear more clearly, and makes more sense. In my opinion, everything starts with listening to ourselves, but you cannot force someone to listen. Most students and musicians - including me - can always pay more attention. That’s a work in progress throughout all of life. The goal of a teacher is to help the students understand and respect the score and the music. And then progressively your observations on the piece will help you to develop a personal perception. It’s a natural learning process that you should never force. It has to come from the deep understanding and the profound knowledge of the piece.Especially when you’re young it’s natural to take your teacher as an example, but eventually you still have to find your own way and become independent. So that’s why I try not to suggest too many musical ideas. Of course, there are certain rules and advices to follow in terms of phrasing, pedal and sound. But a teacher has to be open-minded as well. It’s a bit dangerous if someone believes that there’s only one truth. If a student suggests something else, and it’s well-made, coherent with the structure of the piece and the composer, then why not? Basically, the best teacher is the one who helps the students become their own teacher by learning to criticize their own playing, being able to decide what they need to improve on and understanding how they can develop. Understanding what you need to work on is not enough in itself, you also have to find a way how you can make it work. And that’s the most difficult thing.

BB: In what aspects do you think your teachers influenced your playing?

DF: I only had one main teacher [Jacques Rouvier] at the Paris Conservatoire. We both try to understand and respect the score, and to listen more carefully. We’re very different in various aspects of approaching the music, yet, we play together nowadays. What’s interesting in chamber music is finding a way to keep your individual viewpoints while speaking the same language together.

BB: Throughout your career you’ve been playing with several orchestras and artists. In your experience how can you work together if your partner has a different perspective in terms of interpretation?

DF: It’s always a matter of compromising. But it doesn’t mean that you have to compromise with yourself. You have to be faithful to your own perception, but at the same time you have to make an effort to understand that of your partners as well, and vice versa. Playing chamber music and playing with orchestra doesn’t mean having the same vision of the piece or playing the same way. It’s rather about respecting and understanding each other, and if you do that, the majority of the work is done.

BB: How has your way of approaching and interpreting the music of Bach developed throughout your life?

DF: I think when I was younger I tried to respect every note very precisely, and that - I still think - is a necessity. But as time goes by, I instead find myself trying to read between the lines and look beyond the score. Now I try to be more free and more creative. But being creative is always a bit dangerous - especially when it comes to Bach - because the personality of the performer should never be more important than the music. Of course, you have to say “I”, but “I” is not interesting in Bach. The interesting thing is the music itself.

BB: What is your opinion on today’s often questioned topic of playing baroque music on original historical instruments, since you’re playing it on the modern piano?

DF: I guess that the fact that I play Bach on modern piano is an answer. [Laughs.] But it’s not as simple as that, because actually Bach is the only baroque composer that I play on the modern piano. I love french baroque music, Couperin and Rameau, and I also love Scarlatti. But I don’t play them on the  piano, because I’m under the impression that they had the sound of the  harpsichord in their minds. I’m totally not sure if Bach only had the harpsichord in his mind, rather than having the sound of the harpsichord, the organ, the virginal - and many other instruments - all together. This is music composed in Heaven. It’s so universal that it can’t be connected to the sound of a single instrument.

BB: How did you enjoy today’s masterclass?

DF: Very much, because each student and piece was a different challenge. For example, I taught pieces today that I don’t know so much, like the Scriabin Fantasy. And yet it was one of the most exciting lessons of the day. I believe if you haven’t played a certain piece it doesn’t mean that you can’t teach it, since in the end you’ll always find things to discuss. That was one of the lessons for me today!

Bori Brindzik

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Sok szeretettel ajánlom mindenkinek David Fray francia zongoraművésszel készített interjúmat, melyben a 2020.február 10.-én a Liszt Ferenc Zeneművészeti Egyetemen tartott mesterkurzusáról, a tanításról alkotott véleményéről és a személyes játékmódjának kialakításáról beszélgettünk.

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“Music has to be a living thing!” - David Fray interview

David Fray is one of the most well-known young pianists of recent years, and he’s considered to be one of the foremost interpreters of Bach. He performed Bach Goldberg-variations at the Liszt Academy of Music with great success on the 4th of March, 2019. This conversation took place the following day.

Bori Brindzik: You entered the world of classical music after you were awarded the 2nd Grand Prize at the Montreal International Music Competition. What are your thoughts about competitions?

David Fray: It’s a mixed opinion. Although I’ve only partaken in two competitions in my life - one in Japan, and one in Montreal - they’ve both helped me a lot. Especially the one in Montreal, because it got my career off to a good start. I remember that just before the semi-final, I didn’t want to go out on stage. In some ways it felt like a very difficult and rather unnatural situation. I think people who do 10-20 competitions eventually become very “dry” and desensitized, since they no longer work with music in the same way as before. At a certain level, how do you really want to judge the music when they’re all similarly talented musicians? I’d suggest young musicians to prepare very well for 2-3 competitions in their life, but I wouldn’t tell them to do more competitions than that.

BB: You mostly play by german composers. Why is this german repertoire so special to you?

DF: In my opinion, the german repertoire is the most difficult one, since it requires a lot of discipline. However I prefer this repertoire, because it constantly keeps me working hard in order to be able to play these pieces. Also keep in mind that no matter what age you are, you’ll always be a student. When I’m on stage - for instance yesterday, playing this masterpiece for only the 2nd time in my life - I have to be humble, not perfect. It’s the road - the process - that is interesting, not the destination.

BB: How acceptable is it to make a mistake on stage? I feel like a lot of pianists are struggling with worries of “messing up”..

DF: Everybody makes mistakes. I think perhaps those who rarely make mistakes are not really the most interesting ones. The music is what’s important. Of course you have to offer audiences the best quality, but art is also about making a mistake, because you learn from them. If I make a mistake, naturally it bothers me as well. However, at the same time I also try to accept the fact that even if a mistake was made, I’m still trying to do my best. You had a wonderful pianist yourselves here in Hungary, Annie Fischer. She made some mistakes as well, but who cares? I’m sure that you could find hundreds of pianists who made fewer mistakes than her, but still, who do you remember today? You remember Annie Fischer, because she took risks. Even if she made mistakes every now and then, everything she played was grounded in a very serious, genuine and intense way. This is something that tends to be lost today, because we’re constantly trying to be perfect, but that’s not what life is about. If you care too much about those things, you destroy music and life. Anybody is able to make a perfect CD nowadays, but do you think these perfect CDs are the most interesting ones? I’m not sure. I’d rather listen to live performances, because that’s how you really understand what music is about. What does live mean? It’s life. So it’s alive. What we need from music is for it to be a living thing, not something that’s perfect. What is perfection? Just not playing wrong notes? I think the expression in the phrasing is more important than that.

BB: How should we approach a new piece when we start playing it?

DF: The first thing I do when learning a new piece is write the fingering on each note. It really helps the memory, believe me! I’d say that the most important things are the score and the original intention of the composer. First, you have to try to be very objective about the piece and understand what’s written in the score. Naturally you’ll get some of your own ideas, since the piece becomes part of you in a way. But that part of you, that you put into the music, is a process that has to happen very naturally and you shouldn’t place your own perceptions in front of the score. That’s why I placed the closed score on the piano yesterday while I was playing. I didn’t use it, but at the end of the concert I showed it to the audience. We have to feel gratitude towards the composer and the piece, because in a way, the audience not only applauded me, they applauded Bach and the Goldberg-variations as well.

BB: How do you deal with negative criticism and what advice would you give to young musicians in that regard?

DF: It’s difficult. I wish I could say that I have never payed attention to this. Especially when you’re younger, you’re very sensitive to negative criticism. Even if you try to be strong, there’s always going to be be a part of you that wants to be loved and understood. You never know who’s the person behind an article. Maybe that guy likes all the musicians that you don’t like. Maybe that guy has an opinion about music that is the complete opposite of yours, or maybe that guy likes a sort of piano sound that you just hate. So in a way, you shouldn’t take it personally even if sometimes it’s very personal! If you knew exactly what was right and wrong, you wouldn’t need their opinion. Always be your own worst critic! Do what you think you have to do! And then people will comment, but that’s another thing. You just have to be sure that you do things for good reasons.

BB: What are your plans for the next few months?

DF: This month there’ll be a new recording with the french violin player, Renaud Capuçon. We’re playing Bach Sonatas together. I go to Amsterdam and Moscow, and after that, I have a tour with Renaud Capuçon. We’re going to play pieces from the new CD.

BB: How do you like Budapest and the Liszt Academy?

DF: I like Budapest very much, especially the Liszt Academy, because I think it’s a very special place. I feel like people really come here for the music, and not for any secondary reason. That’s something you feel. When you have good people in the audience, it also helps you to play better.

BB: I remember your piano masterclass in 2017. Are you considering doing more masterclasses at the Academy in the future?

DF: Whatever they may ask me to do, I would gladly do it for the Liszt Academy, because I really like this place. If I can, I’ll always come back with great pleasure to Budapest.

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,, A zene élő dolog kell, hogy legyen!” - David Fray interjú

David Fray korunk ismert fiatal zongoraművésze, akit az egyik legkiemelkedőbb Bach-játékosnak tartanak. Március 4-én az MVM-koncertek 2019-es koncertévadának keretében lépett színpadra a Zeneakadémián Bach Goldberg-variációival. A nagy sikerű teltházas koncert másnapján beszélgettünk.

Brindzik Bori: A klasszikus zene világa akkor nyílt meg ön előtt, amikor a Montreali Nemzetközi Zenei Versenyen második helyezést ért el. Hogy vélekedik a versenyekről?

David Fray: Ez összetett dolog. Csak két versenyen vettem részt, Japánban és Montrealban. A montreali verseny nagyon hasznos volt, mert ezzel indult el a karrierem. Emlékszem, hogy az elődöntő alkalmával nem akartam színpadra lépni. Számomra ez nehéz és természetellenes szituáció volt. Szerintem azok, akik 10-20 versenyen is részt vesznek, a végén kiüresednek, mert már teljesen máshogy viszonyulnak a zenéhez. Egy bizonyos szint felett hogy lehet megítélni, ki a jobb, ha mindannyian nagyszerű zenészek? Azt tanácsolnám a fiataloknak, hogy 2-3 versenyre alaposan készüljenek fel, de nem javaslom, hogy ennél több megmérettetésen vegyenek részt.

BB: Leginkább német zeneszerzők műveit játssza. Miért olyan különleges az ön számára ez a repertoár?

DF: Véleményem szerint a német repertoár a legnehezebb, mivel nagy fegyelmezettséget igényel. Azért kedvelem,  mert folyamatos kihívást jelent számomra. Fontos észben tartani azt is, hogy mindegy, hány éves vagy, örökre diák maradsz. Ha színpadra lépek – mint például tegnap, amikor életemben másodszor játszottam koncerten ezt a mesterművet – alázatosságra, nem pedig tökéletességre kell törekednem. Nem a végeredmény, hanem az odáig vezető út, a folyamat az érdekes.

BB: Mennyire fogadható el, ha egy koncerten hibázunk? Úgy gondolom, hogy ez sok fiatal zenészt nyomaszt.

DF: Mindannyian követünk el hibákat. Talán azok, akik sosem hibáznak, nem is annyira érdekesek. A zene a lényeg. Természetesen a tőlünk telhető maximumot kell nyújtani, de a művészet a hibázásról is szól, amiből tanulni kell. Ha hibázom, az engem is bosszant, ugyanakkor megpróbálom elfogadni, mert tudom, hogy a legjobb formámat igyekszem nyújtani. Egy csodálatos magyar zongoraművész, Fischer Annie például nem játszott a legtisztábban. Hibázott ő is, de kit érdekel? Biztos vagyok benne, hogy százával találnánk olyan zongoristákat, akik kevesebb hibát vétettek, de mégis Fischer Annie-ra emlékszünk, mert ő nem félt kockáztatni. Olyan komoly, őszinte, érzelemgazdag kifejezőerő hatotta át a játékát, hogy a hibák szinte jelentéktelenné váltak. Ez a fajta játékmód sajnos ma már egyre inkább elveszik, hiszen mindenki tökéletes akar lenni, pedig az élet nem erről szól. Ha túl nagy jelentőséget tulajdonítunk ezeknek a dolgoknak, a zenét és az életet semmisítjük meg. Ma már bárki képes tökéletes CD-felvételeket készíteni, de nem vagyok benne biztos, hogy ezek a legérdekesebbek. Szívesebben hallgatok meg egy élő előadást, mert akkor értem meg igazán a zene lényegét. Mit is jelent pontosan az, hogy élő? Azt jelenti: élettel teli. A zene élő dolog kell legyen, nem pedig tökéletes. Mi a tökéletesség? Az, ha ha nem játszunk rossz hangokat? Azt hiszem, a kifejezésmód és a hangminőség sokkal fontosabb ennél.

BB: Hogyan közelítsünk meg egy új darabot, amikor tanulni kezdjük?

DF: Ha új darabot tanulok, az első, hogy minden egyes hangra beírom az ujjrendet, mert ez segít a memorizálásban. Azt mondanám: a kotta és a szerzői szándék legyen az iránymutató. Először meg kell próbálni objektíven viszonyulni a darabhoz és megérteni, mi áll a kottában. Természetes, hogy az embernek támadnak ötletei, hiszen a darab időközben a részévé válik. De annak, hogy mennyit tesz hozzá saját magából, természetes folyamatként kell történnie, nem szabad a saját elképzeléseinket a kotta elé helyezni. Ezért volt például tegnap a kotta a zongorán, miközben játszottam. Nem használtam, de a koncert végén felmutattam a közönségnek. Hálásnak kell lennünk a darabért a zeneszerzőnek, mert tegnap az ünneplés nem csak nekem szólt, hanem Bachnak és a Goldberg-variációknak is.

BB: Hogyan birkózik meg vele, ha negatív kritikát kap, és mit tanácsol a fiatal zenészeknek, hogyan kezeljék ezt?

DF: Ez nehéz dolog. Bárcsak azt mondhatnám, hogy ez soha nem volt rám hatással. Különösen, ha fiatal az ember, nagyon érzékeny ezekre. Mert egy részünk – még akkor is, ha keménynek próbálunk mutatkozni – arra vágyik, hogy szeressék, de még ennél is inkább, hogy megértsék. Soha nem tudhatod, ki az, aki a kritikát írja rólad. Talán ő azokat az előadókat kedveli, akiket te nem, talán a zenei ízlése teljesen különbözik a tiédtől, vagy ő azt a fajta zongorázást szereti, ami neked nem tetszik. Szóval egyfelől nem szabad személyesnek venni, még akkor sem, ha néha nagyon is az. Ha tisztában vagyunk vele, mi volt jó és mi nem, nincs szükségünk az ilyen véleményre. Mindig legyél te a legszigorúbb kritikus saját magaddal szemben. Tedd azt, amit a legjobbnak látsz. Az, hogy az emberek majd véleményezni fogják, már egy másik dolog. A lényeg, hogy amit csinálsz, jó cél érdekében tedd.

BB: Mik a tervei a következő hónapokra?

DF: Ebben a hónapban készítek egy új albumot egy francia hegedűművésszel, Renaud Capuçonnal, amelyen Bach-szonátákat játszunk. Nemsokára Amszterdamban, majd Moszkvában lépek fel, azután pedig Renaud Capuçonnal turnézunk az új album anyagával.

BB: Hogy érezte magát Budapesten és a Zeneakadémián?

DF: Nagyon kedvelem Budapestet, különösen a Zeneakadémiát, mert különleges helynek tartom. Úgy érzem, az emberek itt tényleg a zene miatt jönnek el a koncertre, nem pedig egyéb másodlagos indokból, és ezt érezni lehet. Ha jó a közönség, az segít abban, hogy az ember minél jobban játsszon.

BB: Emlékszem a 2017-es mesterkurzusára. A közeljövőben tervez újabb kurzust tartani a Zeneakadémián?

DF: Akármilyen kéréssel fordulnak hozzám, szívesen vállalom a Zeneakadémia számára, mert nagyon kedvelem ezt az intézményt. Mindig megtiszteltetés számomra visszajönni Budapestre.