cawdissertation-blog

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Interview 2: Paul Timmins, General Manager - Capital Sound

I worked with Capital for the first part of my placement in third year. Below is the full transcript of the telephone interview I recorded.

1.    How long have you been involved in professional live sound?

Since I was 17, I am 53 now.

2.    When you started out what area of sound reinforcement needed most improvement? What had the biggest flaw?

It was probably mixing consoles. I started out in the early 80’s and at that point it was the start of the age of modular loudspeaker systems and the power amplification had got to the standard that was pretty solid, reliable and quite powerful, bit mixing consoles were still something that were quite limiting in terms of the number of channels, equalisation etc. The early 80’s saw the start of bigger sound consoles, but there was still a lot of short falls with them.

3.    Did you ever mix? Were you a sound engineer at the time?

Yes, I was later on. I worked for a manufacturer out of school (Hill Audio), I started off building equipment in various forms. Hill were a company that were based in Kent, Maidstone, and Martin (Conolly) who works here, we both worked at the same organisation – Martin worked more on the rental side, while I was in the manufacturing side of the company for a period of time.

4.    How did the problems you encountered generally impact the bands, audience and the music industry? – Were there clear shortfalls for the bands alongside manufacturing and rental?

I think in those days everyone knew what the industry wanted in terms of sound reinforcement. All the companies were rapidly developing speaker systems, consoles and amplifiers, but of course it was all quite new so generally the reliability wasn’t that great. Just keeping things working – an example being loudspeakers: With loudspeakers then, there was no real control over limiting, so if somebody turned up the system too much, then all the speaker drivers would by dead. That was quite common practice to be doing festivals and having half the system fail because it wasn’t being looked after. Whereas nowadays, the controllability is so much better that we are able to protect all our equipment. Back in that day it was very much reliability, keeping things working was the challenge.

5.    Over your career what areas have you seen the most significant improvements in?

The biggest improvements have been in the sound consoles. We’ve seen mixing consoles change from an analog format. A 24-channel console, with maybe 4 subgroups and two outputs, was considered in 1980 as state of the art, whereas now with digital platforms you’ve got consoles that can handle hundreds of channels with multiple waves of equalisation and dynamics and all the onboard effects; dynamic EQ’s, compressors, noise gates etc.

If you look at the three main elements of the system which is the mixing console, amplification and the loudspeakers, then the consoles, in 35/38 years have completely moved on. Whereas the basic science of amplification and loudspeakers has remained relatively unchanged.

If you look at loudspeakers, a lot of people compare that to a rubber tyre or the wheel; in years the way of transporting a car hasn’t really changed, because ultimately, what else would do it any better. With loudspeakers you’ve still got paper cones moving air, and bits of foil enabling the high frequencies to move air. So of course, the cabinet design has changed to get better efficiency from those drivers, but ultimately the drivers are virtually the same pieces of kit that they were 40 years ago. However, consoles are unrecognisable to what they were 40 years ago.

I have been quite fortunate in that I have been working in the industry for that period of time so I have seen that change. That’s not to say that in the next 40 years the same thing could possibly happen with loudspeakers with some sort of innovative idea or development in how sound is pushed through the air.

6.    Are there any individuals or companies that in your opinion, have delivered a step-change in live sound technology, can you pinpoint any particular innovations that changed the industry?

I think there are two things there in that period of time that have really changed things in what we do and that as the L’Acoustic VDOSC system, who were the first to produce a line array loudspeaker system from a point source, and although the drivers inside the cabinets were the same in what they do, the way of dispersing sound from the hang was a dramatic change. That happened around 1993.

The other is when consoles went digital, there was a product called the Langley Recall, which was actually the first semi-digital console. It had knobs and faders that you had to move yourself and put in position, they were mechanical, but you could press a button and it would effectively save their positions. So you could then dial them to another position and could save that. A bit like a seat in a car where you have a recall of maybe four positions, you could do that with the console. I think it was probably the first of what people would perceive as a digital console.  Moving on from that Digico and Soundtracs developed the D5 series in 2001, and that as what would probably be seen as the first fully digital console.

In the time I have worked with sound, I would say they are 3 products which were very much game changers.

7.    The Wall of Sound was created by the Grateful Dead because the band were not satisfied with the sound at live concerts – for the audience or for themselves on stage. Who is it in the industry today that is driving improvements? (Artists?, Artist Management, Equipment Hire Companies, Equipment Manufacturers? Etc)

It’s hand in hand. You would probably say it’s the manufacturers, they’re carrying out the R&D and they have the insight to know what is needed but of course it’s also driven by engineers because they are the ones that ultimately decided whether they need or want to use the product. That is the interesting part that we debate – they could possibly get away with something that is not as high spec, but they want to get the best sound. The best products are generally of course more expensive, but then you get into affordability and budget.

The answer to the question really, is that it is manufacturers, but also manufacturers listening to the engineers.

8.    How do people decide on what equipment to take out when they come to you to spec out a tour, is it purely down to engineer preference?

I describe it as being subjective. Most of the A game loudspeaker systems pretty much all work well. They will all deliver a fantastic sound if driven properly in the environment they are being used in. But individual engineers have different tastes – you could compare it with cars, some people prefer BMW’s and others prefer Jaguar’s or Audi’s – they all probably go about the same speed, do the same thing, they all drink petrol.

Now as a company the reason we have four choices of loudspeaker system is because we want to be able to give people the choice and the option. We don’t want to give someone an MLA system if they prefer a different brand. Some people have generally made their mind up; they might have relationships with a particular company or may have just used it time and time again and it still suits them. They might like the engineering of it. Certainly, I think it is a subjective thing these days. Things have levelled out to a degree. 20/25 years ago, you could possibly say certain brands were better than others.

The way development has gone with these companies is that a lot of the R&D personnel have moved around – it’s like musical chairs really. So obviously a lot of the intelligence gets shared, whether that’s right or wrong, and ultimately you end up with products that are very similar but maybe are a different colour, different weight and have a different badge on them

9.    Where do you think large scale PA will be over the next decade?

I don’t think in 10 years there’ll be a great deal of difference. Everyone’s sort of striving to make things smaller, more compact and manageable with less people. I think ultimately in 10 years’ time line arrays will probably still be line array’s, they might be a bit smaller, but more efficient. Sound consoles the same really. They are becoming smaller but what they are capable of doing is growing. I am not aware of anything in the next 10 years that is going to be a real game changer. There will be more controllability with loudspeaker systems. MLA was one of the first to have that controllability where you can pretty much steer the system, but that at the moment is still limited to vertical coverage and I think the horizontal coverage will start to come into play.

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Interview 1: John Tinline - Encore

I worked with Encore as part of my third year placement. John sent me his answers in note form over an email, as well as a short phone call.

How long have you been involved in professional live sound?

1975 - 2018 = 44 years 1.When you started out, what area of sound reinforcement technology do you think needed most improvement?

At the time nothing & everything – more money spent on systems would be the best outcome. All the research had been done at the advent of talkies – sound on film- mid 1920’s

installed world wide by mid 1030’s

Portable sound systems followed drive in movies in the USA & these turned into Band PA’s

What needs improvement is always the spend on the sound system’s.

What has happened is that technological advances enabled more powerful amplifiers.

manufactures made more powerful loudspeakers people produced better cabinets as transistors

impacted electronics, then chips, then computers

2.How did that/those problems impact the bands, the audience and the music industry more generally?

Other way round Beatles played Shea Stadium 1995 girls screaming was loud so the system needed to be louder hence the integration of transistors chips & computers

4. In the time you’ve been working in the industry, what areas of technology have seen the most significant improvements?

Digital desks & line array

5.  Which individuals or companies in your opinion have delivered a step change in live sound technology and how has this impacted the industry?

Digico

D&B

6.  The Wall of Sound was created by the Grateful Dead because the band were not satisfied with the sound at live concerts – for the audience or for themselves on stage. Who is it in the industry today that is driving improvements? (Artists?, Artist Management, Equipment Hire Companies, Equipment Manafacturers? Etc).

Now it is Manufactures , then the acts picking up the technology.

Once a few talented designers built consoles.

7.  In the 1970’s bands competed with each other for sheer volume, wattage and scale.  What are the big acts of today looking for?  How is that changing?

How much money they can take out of the gig

8.  Where do you think large scale sound reinforcement will be in 5 years time?, what do you think the key areas of change will be?

For there to be a sea change someone has to re-invent the wheel. Like line array & amp; like digital consoles

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Survey Results 3

Along with my spreadsheet, analysis charts available through google forms provided me with enough means to usefully interpret my data. However I did make new diagrams in excel to give me the exact result displays I felt were needed. Comparisons of the original charts and what I have made can be seen below (1st google forms)

I felt that the percentages were unnecessary to be displayed as well as the figures. `I can talk about particularly significant percentage if necessary

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Survey Results 2

To help break down and analyse all the data, as well as research results further, I produced an Excel spreadsheet to organise the respondents:

I felt it important to try and verify as many of the participants as possible. The biggest danger from producing this online survey was obtaining inaccurate data from questionable sources.

However I do feel that the risk has paid off. The vast majority of my respondents are from North America, which is ideal as it is where a lot of the relevant innovation was happening. I also managed to reach a good amount of people over the age of 45, which due to the nature of an internet survey, I didn't expect.

Additionally, from the occupation answers given, it appears that the majority of the participants have at least some either professional experience or enthusiast interest in the topic. Further analysis of the participants who gave their names uncovered that some participants were in verifiable professional positions in live sound, and at least two of which owned sound reinforcement hire companies.

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Survey Results 1

After posting to multiple forums, results took a little while to trickle in. The vast majority of participants were very useful and answered my questions well. There were a couple of people who strongly disagreed with the content and some that gave me good feedback on the various forum sites I used. 

Some people felt that a survey wasn’t the right type of research for this topic. One particular person felt that I had too few questions, and felt that at least 20-30 questions would be sufficient to cover all the content. I felt it necessary to reply to the constructive criticism left on some of the forums. I am essentially asking for free help and thought it polite to answer any questions left by forum users.

One user replied:

The Wall Of Sound stands out because it's a very unique, bespoke approach to live sound reinforcement that nobody has done before or since. Talking about it as some kind of precursor to modern sound systems is about as silly as talking about the Segway as a precursor to electric cars. It's kind of an interesting digression, but there are really no concepts pioneered by the system that are actually used in modern sound reinforcement, and the concept as a whole, while nifty, is an impractical dead-end.

Of far more relevance to modern sound reinforcement is the development of V-DOSC at L'Acoustics in the early 90s.Practically every large scale sound system deployed today is based on the concepts commercially pioneered by that system.

To which I responded:

The dissertation has over the course of writing it has evolved more into exploring technology before the Wall, why the Dead felt the need for the Wall and in what ways it was a success and a failure. As I'm sure most people here will probably know, it was incredibly impractical and not used for a very long time. It was more of an experiment. So I am looking at both sides.

The research has been a really interesting process of learning more about this industry and any comments or feedback I get are really useful. Cheers.

Some users were very critical and almost sarcastic in their criticism, which was anticipated due to approaching unknown participants online. I didn't feel it necessary to comment. 

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Further Secondary Research

An article on Pro Sound Web explaining the history of line array’s.

I found this article pretty interesting as it covers the technology leading up to the first invention of what is considered by many in the pro audio community as the first line source system, V-Dosc, by French manufacturer L’Acoustics.

https://www.prosoundweb.com/topics/sound_reinforcement/everything_you_wanted_to_know_about_line_arrays_and_thanks_for_asking/

This article from Sound on Sound goes more into how line array’s work and their related software; array-calc, MAPP etc

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/line-arrays-explained

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Finished Survey

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdW-T2zXVcTOW33RGhVIpOj9cfek78Zr-0Jxzvf-cBGWCDVyQ/viewform?usp=sf_link

This is the link to the completed survey. The questions are kept largely the same except for some rewording and reworking of the submission process.

I posted the survey in the forums I had researched, in line with my ethics guidelines, with the cover letter shown below:\

Hi Everyone

For my final year of a Music Production Degree at university I am writing a dissertation on the influence of speaker technology from the Grateful Dead’s Wall of Sound, on the sound reinforcement industry.

I have written a short survey to accompany my secondary research and am looking to reach anyone with experience or interest in the sound reinforcement field.

Here is the link:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdW-T2zXVcTOW33RGhVIpOj9cfek78Zr-0Jxzvf-cBGWCDVyQ/viewform

If anyone has any further information on either the Wall of Sound, or experiences in working in sound reinforcement it would be really useful, as well as any feedback on the content of the survey.

Cheers everyone.

Charlie

Ethics Disclaimer

The aim of this survey is to obtain real world insight to support secondary research in to what extent the Wall of Sound has had on the sound reinforcement industry. All data gathered in this survey will be kept securely and remain confidential. This survey is being used entirely for academic purposes and is in no way being used to market or sell any brands. All participants reserve the right to withdraw their data collected in this survey at any time

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Test Survey:

Once I had come up with the questions for this survey, I complied a draft survey and submitted a few test runs to see how the results worked and how they could be analysed, and how the survey software I was using reacted to the results. These are the questions I used:

1. What is your name? 

2. What is your age? (multiple choice)

3. What is your involvement in live sound reinforcement?

4. Which of the following have you heard of?

The Clair Brothers, Charlie Watkins, Bob Heil, Owsley "Bear" Stanely, Dinky Dawson, None of these

5. Please rate them in terms of how you see their importance in the development of modern sound systems (5 = most important, 1 = least

[The graphic for this question did not work, however It was due to limitation in google forums as I couldn’t work out how to improve it]

6. Which other individuals or companies, if any, would you say created a step change in live sound in the 1970's or 1980's?

7. To what extent do you agree or disagree with the statement "The Grateful Dead's 1974 Wall of Sound rig created a new paradigm in live sound reinforcement"

8. Why do you say that?

9. From what you know or have heard about, which technologies and characteristics do you associate with The Grateful Dead's 1974 Wall of Sound?

10. How do you think the demands on live sound reinforcement have changed between the 1970's and now?

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Part B: Secondary Research

Looking at sound reinforcement in the late 1970′s

Early 70′s: 

- House PA systems didn’t exist. Band’s carried around their own PA systems and available in house PA was very poor Local crew didn't exist either. 

- Band’s each had their own crew, who had to set up, pull down and operate an entire gig every step of the way.

- Most popular touring PA at the time was made by WEM (Charlie Watkins)\

- The typical touring circuit involved clubs, town halls and universities (smaller- medium sized venues at which the PA tech could cope.

Mid 70′s:

- Rock and Roll boom needed bigger PA, Grateful Dead develop and tour with WoS

- Most systems however consisted of lots of large passive speaker systems, arranged in block clusters ether side of the stage, which suffered from acoustic lobing

- There was no real control over the sound, mixers were still rudimentary, no limiting avalliable, equipment was blown out a lot

- Stage monitoring was scarce and of poor quality

Late 70′s:

- A time when the industry just started to see change

- Point source still make up the vast majority of the market

- Power handling of amplifiers improved, leading to larger systems

- The need for better dispersion due to larger venues rose

(Hardiman, A. 2013) https://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/live-sound/just_because_its_sound_doesnt_mean_it_has_to_be_mixed/

(Whelan, M. 2014) https://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/live-sound/sound_in_the_70s_memories_of_mayhem_mischief_mishaps1/

(Burnett, J 2009) http://education.lenardaudio.com/en/08_live.html

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Possible Surveys to use

1. Pro Sound Web: Has a dedicated live sound forum - LAB (Live Audio Board), with a dedicated thread in sound reinforcement history.

2. Gearslutz: Heavily based on audio equipment, however includes a lot of historical knowledge, particular interest in desks and PA systems

3. Steve Hoffman Forums: Large WoS thread, however not very active

4. Reddit: Huge array of topics, questionable legitimacy, a bit chaotic

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Primary Research Ideas: Possible changes

Through looking at people to contact for primary research I feel a survey might obtain better results. I will need to attract people with knowledge on sound reinforcement technology between the 1860′s and 80′s. 

While opinion’s of professionals will be really useful in getting some concrete information I can trust, through looking at possible participants, the pool of people directly involved with the Wall of Sound is fairly small. They are also entirely stateside, many of which have passed away or are not contactable.

Throughout research for part A, I used forums to find particular source material. Some of the people I came across there had extensive knowledge  in quite specific areas. This might be, in a refined format, the best way of obtaining a range of data on this particular topic.

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Research: Selecting Primary Research Techniques

For part B of my dissertation I am hoping to obtain some interviews from professionals in the live sound reinforcement industry. During my placement last year I worked with two major live sound companies in the UK that are ideal for this project. The criteria that I need participants to fit currently stands at:

1. Professional within the industry: the nature of my dissertation requires those with specific knowledge of the industry. 

2. Age: I am predominantly looking for older participants, ideally 50+ as this is really the only way I have a chance of talking to people that have experience in sound reinforcement pre 1990′s. Technology severely changed and improved in the 90′s and I am keen to further understand the period before this. 

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Feedback: Kenny Jenkins

I managed to get the chance to have a quick chat with Kenny about my research report and dissertation. It was really useful to get his perspective as although he doesnt specialise in my topic, he does specialise in historical research.

We talked about the difficulties of historical research and the reality of days spent sifting through forums and historical databases on wild source goose chases.

I am lucky that I becan preparing the research aspect for this assignment fairly early as it has not been a quick an easy task. I didn’t expect it to be, however it is still been quite frustrating. 

One of the most irritating aspects has been when looking for sources on old forum pages, and being presented with “url not found”, from a web page that has expired or no longer extists.

I have been using a web archive program called Wayback Machine, that has given me access to some of these documents. It seems to work by storing snapshots of web pages before they expire and it has been a really useful tool.

http://archive.org/web/

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Feedback: Sam Nicholls - 15/02/17

I had a meeting with Sam Nicholls during the second Music Industry learning set.

Sam was keen for me to get some established books, papers and journals into my work. At the start of the research phase I listed books I thought would be useful in my spreadsheet so I will be having a look in that to get some good sources. I have also started looking in the Audio Engineering Society Journal.

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Research: Wall of Sound

Photos

I have found a collection of interesting photos of the Wall, from a Grateful Dead Rodie’s wep page that show the system in various arrangements and stages of completion:

http://www.rpechner.com/Music/Grateful-Dead/i-MBvvFmh

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Research: Grateful Dead

The Grateful Dead had a massive following of their time and to this day have a loyal fanbase known as ‘Dead Heads’.

Their cult-like existence has meant that a lot their work, commercial and behind the scenes was documented and has been archived on the internet which has made for some really interesting reading in the form of the ‘Dead Head Newsletter’.

Fans, band and crew alike have contributed to the newsletter over the bands career and it has been a great source of technical information written at the time of its creation.

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Research: The Wall of Sound

I found this great little video when reseraching the Wall. It gives a bit of insight in what it was like for the road crew to deal with such a large system on a daily basis and talks about some of the technology behind it.

I am particularly interested in the differential microphones - The system was setup behind the band, serving as self contained stage monitoring. To avoid feedback two differential microphones were set up out of phase. The band would sing close into the top microphone, and the bottom mic would pick up sound from the system and get cancelled out.

I found a great picture of this set up of lead singer Jerry Garcia, from a 1974 San Francisco concert recording.

Freezundelnow, Kreutzmann, Lesh, Parish, Weir (2010), The Grateful Dead – ‘Wall of Sound’ [online] www.youtube.com Avaliable at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PODPgBaiFI4

The gig pictured is actually a really good version of Morning Dew (if you can put up with the wonky dancing at the start)