chubbybeaver77

[chubbybeaver77]

Everyone has said so much so I hope I can still contribute something. Anon asked for creators' confirmation. Actually, Nomura did but people ignored or twisted his words to fit what they personally prefer.

1. In OG, it's confirmed that Cloud loved Tifa.

2. There are no sources confirming that Cloud stopped loving Tifa nor Cloud EVER loved Aerith.

3. Silver has shown you quotes from Otwtas that shows Cloud was still in love with Tifa post OG - before AC.

4. Nomura did confirm Tifa was Cloud's love in AC. I can't imagine people refusing to understand his words. Tifa's roles here are relevant to Cloud & the family she shared with him. Who else is she a koibito/sweetheart to if not Cloud? This is the movie with Cloud as the main character and Tifa the supporting role.

5. No, the devs won't answer when asked: Can you answer if Cloud loves Tifa or Aerith? Because if they have to do that, it means they fail at storytelling. Like people don't understand the story & many clues they gave to the point they have to go and explain what it actually is?

Since you are a new fan, I hope you will play and experience the games for yourself, read different/opposite opinions, and draw your own conclusions. ♥ 😊 ♥

New fan here and I just want to ask, are you sure there is even a canon ship for FFVII? I can't find any quotes or interviews from the creators that confirm that Cloud loves Tifa or Aerith. Cloud did want Tifa's attention when they were young, but I haven't seen anything saying that he actually loves her after the OG even though he lives with her in AC. With Aerith, he wasn't his real self with her the whole time she was alive in OG so he couldn't have truly loved her.

Tifa’s AC design specifically mentions her cloudy wolf ring. Which is a promise ring between them because in FF7 they wear those rings on their right ring finger, which president Shinra also does because his is a wedding band.

OTWTAS, where both Barret and Tifa confirm Cloud is in a relationship with her because you don't ask your friend to do up a lifetime supply of food and drink and if they were just friends then why is Cloud talking like he's just realised something deep? Also, Cid says women wear the pants in reference to Tifa, which is a phrase used to describe a romantic couple's dynamic. They're saying Tifa’s the boss.

And they were gonna bang in OG, but the idea was toned down. The fact the devs mooted this as a possible end to the HW scene, even though it's ultimately rejected, shows what kind of relationship they expect Cloud and Tifa to have.

@iaintyourbro @otp-oasis-heavenxearth @holysmotez @chubbybeaver77 I'm sure you guys got more 😁

[chubbybeaver77]

Well, I was gonna say maybe it's not an alt timeline, but that isn't exactly the same as the sign in ch13.

That's a big fucking sign BTW. Doesn't look like it in the Barret shot, but it is.

The thing I love and hate about this is that pretty much any theory is valid as long as the FF7 narrative remains intact at the end. So, there could be alt timelines, but equally there couldn't. And because we don't have more info we can't really say one way or another, apart from the devs promising not to fuck up the OG core story.

Something is definitely up.

[chubbybeaver77]

EXCUSE FUCKING EVERYONE

This guy died.

I wondered why we saw him. Sneaky devs. That whole ending is a fucking alternate timeline. All of it. Zack being alive, the plate collapse not being so bad, Avalanche surviving. Biggs.

DAMN YOU SQUAREENIX YOU STILL KILLED BIGGS 😭😭😭

[chubbybeaver77]

Hello I was talking to somebody about the wake up graffiti in the tunnels. And there is a yellow text on the left side of it. Is that a fake language or a secret code Avalanche uses?

Which one? I know there's one by the crab warden boss, but I can't remember where else it shows.

Anyone know what this says? The yellow text. 🙏❤️

[chubbybeaver77]

Originally, Tifa had 2 dresses when she was younger. She would have worn white during the promise scene and light blue as a kid. However, for some reasons, her dresses ended up looking the same in OG.

The Remake decided to keep Tifa's blue dress for the promise scene like we have always remembered it and gave her a white dress when she was small.

I was thinking a lot about her white dress and turned out Nomura had always intended to have her in white.

Tifa ~ white dress ~ LIGHT. ✨

[chubbybeaver77]

Has been and will continue to be the ONLY ONE ♥

[chubbybeaver77]

Final Fantasy Ultimania Archive Vol. 02

Not only can Tifa cook but it's also her NATURAL talent. Girl doesn't need to try hard. 😌

[chubbybeaver77]

Okay, so I have always endorsed this translation of Final Fantansy 7 Remake Ultimania from @finalheaven .

Because why? Not that I am a cloti and I blindly promote pro-cloti content. It's because you need to take CONTEXT into consideration when you translate. And for this part, other translations have failed to recognize the context of Final Fantasy 7.

The left exerpt is from FF Ultimania Archive Volume 02.

[chubbybeaver77]

I have just got Ultimania Archive Vol. 02. I will read through tomorrow and share any interesting info I find.

But here, the ultimania confirmed that Tifa's dad is "the village chief".

@silver-wield I think you have been looking for this piece of info? 😄

[chubbybeaver77]

This is a great discovery from Silver because not only does it show us the inspiration the devs use for Tifa Remake's creation but also that the story of Cloud and Tifa will continue the same way as in OG. 😸

I haven’t done anything mind blowing for a while, so how’s about we strap in for this one?

The dual plots of FF7R: Kabbalah faith and Norse mythology.

Now, we all know the argument about Tifa and Aerith being the guardians of the main plot arcs because it’s a fact. Aerith holds onto the overarching plot of saving the planet and Tifa is the “caretaker” of the intimate plot that restores Cloud’s fractured psyche and unites SOLDIER Cloud and Real Cloud.

Aerith and the overarching plot.

The wing motif from Safer Sephiroth’s OG design is seen in the new merchandise for FF7R, hinting that the overarching theme of the sephirot is still in play within the new narrative.

The sephirot is the origin of Sephiroth’s, Tifa’s and Aerith’s names (because Tifa and Aerith were one person at one point during conceptualisation and one of the alternate spellings of tifaret, the central node on the sephirot is tifaerith. Tifa. Aerith). The literal definition of sephirot is counting and relates to the book of numbers, which refers to a search for the promised land.

There are eleven nodes on the sephirot, however, two (keter and da'at) are seen as the unconscious and conscious manifestations of the same principle. That leaves us with ten nodes.

In FF7 there are only nine protagonists and one dies, leaving eight. They were successful, but the follow on events are geostigma (AC) and the emergence of Omega (DC). This suggests that something was missing from their final battle that resulted in a less than perfect victory.

In FF7R, thanks to the resurrection of Zack, there are now ten.

Source

Cloud’s plot relevance.

Niflhel (misty hel) is a location in Norse mythology which appears in eddic poems and could be interpreted as the lowest level of hell and is an important location in the role of Ragnarok (the end of the world)

“A sooty-red cock” from the halls of hel is one of three that will signal the beginning of Ragnarok. Since hel in FF7 could refer to Nibelheim after it burns, this links the town as being one of the key events in the plot for Cloud. One other comes from Jotunheimr (where giants menace humans in Midgard). This location has several sub locations that are echoed within the FF7 world: a protective wall (Gaea’s cliffs), a well of wisdom (inside the temple of the ancients), the roots of yggdrasil (where Sephiroth is given the black materia).

The third bird is from Valhalla, which is the afterlife and could represent the lifestream in FF7.

Tifa in the OG was shown to be the root purpose of Cloud’s motivation for joining SOLDIER and is the one who saves him after his mind shatters due to Sephiroth’s interference. They both come from the same town. Nibelheim, which is based on the Norse concept of Niflhel. At the conclusion of the lifestream event, Cloud has resolved the internal plot conflict, leaving everyone free to complete the overarching plot.

Cloud is shown as a Norse warrior in FF7 with his association to the cloudy wolf, which is part of the FF7 compilation logo, and his bike, Fenrir, which is part of the Norse mythological concept of Ragnarok.

Cloud, as part of the overarching plot carries a dual persona as shown by the sephirot concept, he then falls in battle and is saved by Tifa, which is the Norse mythology concept.

Two plots, two contrasting source materials to draw on.

Tifa and the internal plot.

So, we have Nibelheim, the combined locations of the overarching plot where Sephiroth collapses Cloud’s mind and then the lifestream where Cloud is reunited with himself. The symbolism of three is prevalent throughout FF7R. Three party members, three butterflies in Aerith’s garden, three birds in both sectors.

In the OG, it was Tifa and only Tifa who could reunite Cloud with himself. It’s stated in various media that no one else could do this for him. It’s her role in this plot and is separate from the overarching plot, which is why there’s shown a divisive line between the two when Tifa abandons the overarching plot to care for Cloud. She chose her own plot arc over Aerith’s.

Tifa has been given the Norse mythological concept role of a valkyrie in FF7R.

Valkyrie wings are seen on Tifa’s default gloves. She also has Norse runes on them that mean Victory. During times of peace, valkyries would serve mead to fallen warriors and keep them company (Tifa serves Cloud a drink).

Whenever a valkyrie’s chosen warrior was revived by Odin it was because he showed great military prowess in battle. Cloud might not be a SOLDIER in name, but he’s shown he understands military tactics.

Nibelheim shown as a reference to Norse mythology means Tifa’s role is also one of Norse mythology. Given her new association to feathers, flight, choosing to save a soldier on the brink of death and the fact she’s a fighter class, Tifa is in the role of a valkyrie. A warrior maiden, whose purpose is to care for fallen warriors and take them to Valhalla, or restore them to life if they’re deemed worthy enough. In Cloud’s case, he’s returned to life because of Tifa’s actions within the lifestream.

Valkyries are also lovers of heroes and are sometimes described as daughters of royalty (there’s a well-known rumour that Tifa is the daughter of Nibelheim’s mayor). Valkyries are sometimes accompanied by ravens and connected to swans and horses.

On Aerith’s mural we have images of both a horse and swans and the black bird flying over the city is also a well-known one. These may not associate to Tifa directly, but they’re all symbols in the game for a purpose. The black bird flies over the path that Cloud took from the cliffs to Midgar. The pegasus likely refers to Zack’s last stand because they associate to heroes, and the swans are outside the bounds of the lifestream imagery and likely refer to Zack and Aerith. But, Tifa associates to both Zack and Aerith because she knows them both and acting like they haven’t had an impact on her as a person and how she moves forward with her life would be ignoring a large part of her character growth. Aerith was Tifa’s friend and Zack tried to help her in Nibelheim. Zack is the idealised hero of FF7, so his association to valkyries fits the metaphors, although he is a hero that Tifa didn’t save.

Tifa’s role in FF7R is that of a valkyrie who chooses to save her fallen warrior, Cloud, because she’s in love with him. That fallen warrior, who suffered a dual persona because of the themes portrayed in the overarching plot, then goes onto prevent the end of the world and reach his promised land with his family, thus uniting the two themes of the game at its conclusion.

[chubbybeaver77]

Cloud and Tofu 🥰❤️#cloti #cloudxtifa #cloudlovestifa #TifaLockhart #CloudStrife  #love #ff7 #FF7Remake #FF7リメイク #FF7R #blushingCloud #HappyTifa #Tofu

[chubbybeaver77]

A sum-up of Cloti!

Cloud and Tifa - The Buildup pt. 1

Part 1 of the remake released finally and it covers Midgar. Let’s take a look at the scenes between Cloud and Tifa, and the scenes to come later in future installments. Let’s get started. Been a while since I last wrote an essay, it’s time. 

The first time she’s mentioned:

Those of us who know the story, we know who Tifa is and what her connection with Cloud is. But, without knowing the story this question sets up other questions. “Who is Tifa?” “What is her relationship with Cloud?” “There must be something if Jessie, who is flirting hard with Cloud, is asking so she can understand if she’s flirting with a taken man or not.”  Tifa is mentioned as early as chapter 1, both her importance to Cloud and the core mystery of Cloud’s identity are foreshadowed and setup.  Jessie’s question makes Cloud search his memories, are he and Tifa close? This is where we get more information.  We see through Cloud’s eyes as we get our first look at Nibelheim, and our first look at Tifa, as Anxious Heart plays in the background. 

Cloud looks up at the water tower and lingers on it as he’s walking. We know the iconic water tower and what it means, but this shot is setting up the importance of this water tower. Even more foreshadowing about Tifa and Cloud’s bond. 

As cool as this flashback is, it didn’t really answer the question. We see Tifa attempting to reach out to Cloud, but he seemingly ignores her. We never see what happens next as the flashback ends.

We don’t get our answer in the flashback, nor do we get our answer from Cloud. We know Cloud and Tifa knew each other as kids as well as in adulthood. We know that Jessie is curious about their relationship but other than that we didn’t get an answer. Only a question was posed. A question that will continue to be answered in small pieces before it is fully revealed.  At this moment, Tifa, her relationship to Cloud, and their promise at the water tower are all foreshadowed.  The second time she’s mentioned:

First we have Jessie asking Cloud if he’s close with Tifa, and now we have Barret giving us another piece of the puzzle. We know that Cloud and Tifa share history, but Barret is the leader of an anti-Shinra group and doesn’t trust Cloud at all. However, with this line by Barret we learn that he trusts Tifa and gave Cloud a chance based on Tifa’s words.  Tifa is the one who got Cloud the job, and spoke so highly of him that Barret begrudgingly hires a “Shinra dog.” it demonstrates that Tifa’s trust in Cloud is the deciding factor in Cloud’s role for Avalanche. The three members warm up to him quickly, leaving only Barret who continues to distrust him yet reluctantly works with. This would show that all the members, for the most part, trust Tifa’s opinion. It is Tifa’s trust in Cloud that influences the Avalanche members.  Another piece to the puzzle:

We already saw the water tower in an earlier flashback when Jessie asks him about Tifa. It served a purpose besides setting up the promise scene. As Cloud makes his way back to Sector 7 he has another flashback. The water tower appears once again as Cloud stands in the midst of flames. 

As the scene plays out, we see the water tower completely engulfed in flames before revealing the iconic shot of Sephiroth. 

We’ll dive into what this scene symbolizes and foreshadows in more depth in later parts of this essay. For now, it is another reference to his bond with Tifa that we don’t know the significance to just yet.  All it tells us is Cloud and Tifa’s hometown went up in flames, and that the water tower holds more significance than being a mere landmark.  The reunion flower: 

And here is our first real answer on what Tifa is to Cloud. When Cloud meets Aerith, a flower peddler peddling her wares, and she offers him a flower. Now, in OG the flower cost 1 gil and you had the choice to buy it or decline it. Your choice did actually impact the game in a small way as if you declined the flower you would walk away with no flower.  In the remake, however, even if you decline the flower it will still end up in Cloud’s possession. The flower no longer costs 1 gil it is completely free. The game does not let you walk away with no flower.  We are given some added information about the yellow lily. In FF7′s universe this flower means “reunion” and Aerith adds on a romantic connotation stating lovers would give them when they were reunited. There is a second romantic connotation here, as if you decline the flower, Aerith will state it will make Cloud’s “girlfriend” happy. Upon hearing this, he asks her “how much?”  Now who could this girl who Cloud holds romantic feelings for? Who was he thinking about when Aerith mentioned a girlfriend? With the flower in his suspender he reunites with Barret and the others where we get our third Tifa mention. 

Cloud is initially confused when Barret says he’ll see Cloud soon at 7th Heaven, taking the time to mention Tifa once again and stating it is where she works. Barret also urges Cloud not to keep Tifa waiting.  It is chapter 3, and Tifa has been foreshadowed since chapter 1, and now we’ll finally get to see her.  In OG, if Cloud bought the flower an additional choice was unlocked. Once he makes it to 7th Heaven, Tifa notices the flower and the player is given the option to give it to Tifa or to Marlene. In the remake this is removed. The story removes the option to walk away without a flower, and removes the option of who to give it to.  Again, who has been foreshadowed as having a bond with Cloud where a super flirty girl is interested in what exactly is going on between the two, who had such faith in Cloud it got him hired by someone extremely paranoid and hateful of Shinra, the girl he thought of when “a gift for [his] girlfriend” came up, the girl who receives the flower that lovers would give when reunited? 

5 years:

Through this interaction, we get out next clue. What’s been 5 years? Obviously, fans of the original already know, but let’s pretend like we don’t.  It’s been 5 years. We have a timeline now, and Chapter 3 keeps on providing us with more information.  After delivering the water filter to Marle, who is their landlady, Tifa tells Cloud that Marle helped her back in the day. Tifa reveals she’s been in Midgar for about 5 years. 

The puzzle pieces are forming together yet they are not completing the picture yet. After doing a few jobs for connections, Tifa brings up their home village. 

This makes it seem that 5 years ago, Cloud left the village as did Tifa. We heard Sephiroth say “Your hometown that burns so bright” but we don’t have a timeline on that in this part of the story.  We can assume Tifa left her village 5 years ago shortly after Cloud left. We know that Cloud returned to his home to witness it burning, and we know Tifa was confused when Cloud said it’s been 5 years, and we know Tifa has been living in Midgar for about 5 years. The picture is coming together but it’s still not clear. Cloud is reluctant to talk about it, but in a later scene we get more information.  Alone At Last:  And now we get Cloud’s answer. He finally talks about what happened when he left their village. 

We get some backstory on how they were on the news everyday when Cloud and Tifa were kids, and that back then everyone wanted to be a Soldier. This was when the war with Wutai was going on, and Sephiroth was hailed as a great war hero, it was also around this time that Elmyra lost her husband and met Ifalna and Aerith.  When Cloud first heard of Sephiroth, he would’ve been 9 years old or so. He talks about when he left the village the war was over and they didn’t needs heroes, and his job was just working for Shinra, nothing glorious like he had dreamt of. 

The conversation goes quiet as Cloud reflects on his time with Shinra, prompting Tifa to change the subject. Before she does however, we get an awkward silence hanging in the air as the camera shows the rug they are standing at. @silver-wield​ pointed out this is a flower design, and could be the reunion flower. 

This is apt as it’s shown right before Tifa brings up their reunion in Midgar. 

Here’s what we know so far, Cloud left the village to join Soldier, it has been 5 years since he last saw Tifa, and he learned recently Tifa has been living in Midgar for about 5 years.  She remarks on the odds of them going their separate ways what seems like 5 years ago and randomly bumping into each other in a city as massive as Midgar.  The Promise:  Finally, finally, FINALLY we get to the promise scene and I can talk about the significance of the water tower as more than just a landmark!  When we first see the water tower in Chapter 1 is when we first see Tifa, we see the water tower again in Chapter 2 being engulfed in flames, and now in Chapter 4 we get another flashback that shows the significance of the water tower and how it’s linked to Tifa in Cloud’s memories. 

It was at this water tower that Cloud told Tifa about wanting to join Soldier, that he will be the best of the best, just like Sephiroth.  This is also where Cloud and Tifa make their promise, and the soundtrack that plays here is called “A Tower, A Promise.” 

This memory was sparked when he was with Avalanche and was triggered by a rather random thing. A fan. Tifa was not mentioned, nor part of this mission, and yet a spinning fan is what brought memories of Tifa to the forefront. Seriously. A random fan triggered a memory of Tifa. 

The first time he had a flashback of Tifa it was prompted by Jessie asking what their relationship was. Tifa was directly mentioned. However, as the game goes on the memories Cloud has of Tifa are randomly triggered as his true self tries to resurface.  After Cloud remembers the promise he made to her, he remembers what she said back at the bar and the emotional turmoil she’s in. 

Cloud’s face says it all right here. He feels like he came close to failing her. This is the moment more of his true self is brought forward by his memories of Tifa. It was after this scene we see him truly get closer to Wedge, Jessie and Biggs and finally includes himself with them, even smiling and laughing with the group.  Now prior to this scene, we met Marle in Chapter 3 who had a lot to say to Cloud regarding Tifa. 

Marle’s words actively foreshadow a scene that takes place after Cloud remembers the promise. At the moment Marle grills Cloud, he hasn’t remembered the promise and when Marle asks him if he’s actually thinking about Tifa and her feelings, his face says it all. Cloud goes to answer, but is at a loss for words…He looks mad and when he goes to presumably tell Marle off, he stops and his face changes to one of guilt and puzzlement. 

Is he being a real friend to her? Is he really listening to her and thinking about her feelings? Or is he just going through the motions and pretending? Playing out a false persona…perhaps? Not acting like his real self maybe…? After the mission with Jessie is done and Cloud retires to his room, we get to see what Marle’s words foreshadowed and the change in Cloud’s demeanor after he remembered the promise. 

“She needs a friend–a real friend.” 

“So when she talks, are you really listening?” 

In Chapter 1, Cloud insists him assisting Avalanche is a one-time gig, and once he gets his money he’s out of there. He refuses to acknowledge he’s part of the group as he tells Barret he’s not one of them and he’s simply a sword-for-hire.

When Chapter 4 rolls around Barret kicks Cloud out of 7th Heaven, throwing his words back in his face about it being a one-time thing, and Cloud himself stating that those shady guys looking for Barret isn’t his business and has nothing to do with him. Cloud had only one reason to stay in Midgar: Tifa. Prior to him remembering their promise, he had no reason, but Marle’s words and his memory of the water tower form his reason for staying. After all, he said he’d be there for Tifa and he decides to stay of his own volition–honoring the promise of his own free will and remembering it on his own. 

We also see another flashback in Chapter 6 showing a distraught Tifa crying over her father’s body before taking Masamune and walking into the reactor. 

This memory will be triggered again by Tifa repeating what she said all those years ago, with Cloud thinking that he had failed his promise to her. 

This alludes to the promise he made to Tifa, and how he believes he failed her in Nibelheim. There is also another allusion to Nibelheim in Chapter 1. Reactor 5 has the same layout as Reactor 1, and while at Reactor 1 in the first chapter Cloud not only has a memory of Tifa and the water tower, but he also hallucinates a black feather as he sets the bomb. 

We finally see the significance of the water tower shown/foreshadowed in Chapter 1, but the full significance will not be revealed until the later parts of the Remake. The water tower - continued in part 2

Part 2 coming soon

[chubbybeaver77]

Beautiful ♥

-"We haven't seen the other side of that mountain." ☁

-"Yeah... let's go home." ❤

@kokodrawings , you are a fucking GODDESS. I am BLOWN AWAY. This exceeded any & all expectations I had! I am SO, so happy. This is incredible. Thank you for perfectly encompassing my idea. Thank you so, so, so much. T^T

[chubbybeaver77]

Let’s Talk About… THE FIRST PAGE of On the Way to a Smile: Case of Barret

4:15AM - Another one of my… well…why sleep when there are still mysteries floating around about FFVII.

I saw some info floating around about “Tifa and Cloud’s house.” So I thought well, I have a new edition of On the Way to a Smile. Let me see if I can spot this real quick, since I haven’t had a chance to go back and ACTUALLY read the damn thing. Case of Tifa takes up a lot of time on the internet, so, just like in the game, Barret is treated like a third wheel in the book… and he has some JUICY information.

This is the first page. You know who wrote this book? Nojima wrote this book, that’s who.

“After helping Tifa and Cloud build a new home, Barret entrusted Marlene to them.”

Can we all just laugh for a moment?

I mean, a lot.

We hear this bullshit about “kidnapping” and “stealing” Marlene.

So we NOT ONLY have this info in Case of Tifa, IT’S THE SECOND FUCKING SENTENCE IN CASE OF BARRET. “Barret entrusted Marlene to them.” HOW ABOUT THAT? WEIRD.

Oh, but let’s not ignore the first part of that sentence about TIFA AND CLOUD’S HOUSE. Yeah, it’s the bar. It’s clear they live at the bar in On the Way to a Smile, Advent Children, and The Kids are Alright. 

@silver-wield​ Here you go. Thought you’d enjoy this as well.

[chubbybeaver77]

Da. Actual. Fuq.

Aerith's talking about Zack in her intro with Cloud. The memento refers to the photo which we assume is of Cloud with Tifa and Sephiroth, but in reality is with Zack, Tifa and Sephiroth.

She's already hinting at Zack from that first meeting.

This is why we're supposed to replay OG.

[chubbybeaver77]

I don't know about you, but in Case of Tifa when Cloud found Denzel and brought him to live with them, I feel like Cloud only started spending more time at home because the kids were there. I think that if it wasn't for the kids being there, he probably would have stayed gone and would have left a long time ago. I ship Cloud and Tifa but sometimes I just question if Cloud truly loves Tifa.

Maybe you should watch the film, read the books and play the games again because all Cloud has ever done is prove he loves Tifa.

@iaintyourbro @otp-oasis-heavenxearth @holysmotez @chubbybeaver77 @enigmaphenomenon

Who wants it?

[chubbybeaver77]

final fantasy VII promotional posters / 1997 / square