daevabadthoughts

[daevabadthoughts]

the very start of nahri and alizayd’s friendship is so pure. yes, it’s part of ghassan’s plan for ali to befriend her, but it comes about it in a way that’s honest and passionate because that’s how alizayd does everything.

she asks him a question and thinks, “dara would have lied. nisreen would have deflected and changed the subject. but alizayd just pressed his mouth into a thin line and answered”

which. is so emblematic of him as a character. and i think is one of the reasons they work so well together. they’re both idealists who see the world for what it is and don’t shirk away from it. the stare into the truth and acknowledge it fully. and they both understand that believing in something doesn’t mean blind support - because making something better requires conscious acknowledgement of what it is, so that real steps can be taken to reach what it could become.

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brb just having a Moment while i think about the fact that while nahri kills the ifrit by the banks of the gozan she thinks of the ifrit that hurt dara and baseema and feels vindicated and Right in her actions when the person she’s killing? is not any of those people? and how this kind of tribalism is everywhere in the djinn world and learning to see people as the individuals they are instead of the groups they’re a part of is integral to being able to build a society that actually fucking works, and how that eludes us right now, in the three deminsional world i inhabit that is not inside of a book

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I like Dara and Ali as characters, but it really seemed in the 3rd book, the author poured all her love for Ali into the book. And it felt so weird that Ali, as the ONLY muslim character, lusted over Nahri, and was like a religious zealot, calling women whores. Dara was also wrong, but I wish the author put more background into him, because she made it seem like he was manipulated to commit genocide. And his redemption arc should have been better.

There is so much to unpack with this ask...  So I’m just gonna put it under the cut

Let’s address Ali, Shannon has consistently written him with love, like from his first chapter to the very last. Did you forget where he helps the Shafit in COB? did you forget him helping Nahri build the hospital in KOC?  Also, he isn’t the only muslim character? He’s the most devout, and I think it’s really shady of you to call him a ZEALOT, because he staunchly follows his faith... There’s nothing bad about being devout? He doesn’t like it when others want him to compromise himself as a person, like when Muntadhir tries to convince him to sleep with a dancer, that’s not who Ali is. Does he react rudely? Yea, because he’s awkward and is insulted that Dhiru won’t respect his choice. Also, this weirdly sounds like the answer to this bad uquiz, which @whatdoesthefuturebehold addressed here 

I genuinely think you read this series differently from how everyone else did if you think Shannon only hyped him up in the last book. He’s consistently written as someone who fiercely cares for those he loves, and for what he believes in. His character has always been about growth and learning from mistakes. He starts off as a sheltered and religious teenager, and grows into an adult who recognizes his mistakes and fixes them but still follows his faith. Also, I think you’re really off-base about him lusting after Nahri, when any time he had feelings about her he immediately pushed them aside and chastised himself for feeling such way for his friend/his brother’s wife. Why villainize him for having a crush? Why are we not villainizing Dara, a 30 something year old who’s been around for a thousand years for “lusting” over a 20 yr old Nahri huh? Let’s not forget, Nahri and Ali are the protagonists, Dara’s inclusion only happens in the second book and I heard through the grapevine that wasn’t even supposed to happen in the first place. 

As for Dara, I don’t think you know what a redemption arc is… There is no redemption arc, he doesn’t go through substantial character development and barely learns from his mistakes. The whole point about him being manipulated is weak. The Nahids told him to commit genocide and he did. Even when his father was against it, he still went ahead and did it. At the start of the series he is a man who hates Shafit and worships Nahids, and throughout out KOC he aids Manizeh, who plans to commit another genocide (with the Geziri and Shafit). He continues to help Manizeh terrorize the people of Daevabad and thinks she would be the perfect leader, if she wasn’t insane. He has the one moment where he kills her, and that’s only because he realizes that she was the wrong person to take back Daevabad. He constantly feels sorry for himself but not for his victims, to the point even the Daeva priest tells him to get his head out of his ass and care for his victims rather than himself. He never redeems himself to the Shafit that he murdered, or the Geziri. Dara says and does a variety of vile things throughout the series, and him being a bound Daeva really lost its sympathy appeal when he came back, and rather than taking the chances he had to walk away from destruction, decided to walk right into it. 

You need to realize, Dara and Ali are foils. Ali is what happens when you follow the righteous path that you paved yourself with your beliefs, and Dara is what happens when you follow orders and don’t grow a backbone of your own. 

I’m not one to have an intellectual conversation about this, but the replies to one of my posts has probably the best discussion about their respective characters I’ve ever seen, and you can go through the replies here 

[daevabadthoughts]

If you think about it, Nahri’s “love interests” for each book mirror the journey she’s on through the series

Book 1: Dara: Nahri has very little agency in book 1. She’s gone from an insecure living situation in Cairo to being thrust into a world she didn’t know existed and doesn’t really understand how it works. Her feelings for Dara are very teenage first love - she’s wrapped up in her first impressions of him and doesn’t want to look too deeply into what she learns about his past until she absolutely has to at the end which is shattering for her.

Book 2: Muntadhir: Nahri has spent 5 years as a Nahid which has primarily been learning how to use her healing powers and staying in the right side of Ghassan’s political power. She’s doing what is expected of her. Okay so calling Muntadhir a love interest is a stretch but her relationship is Nahri doing what she is expected to do. It’s an arranged marriage designed to bring Daevabad together and is soulless because she’s mourning her first love and he’s in love with his best friend. It’s not until Ali returns that Nahri starts to become more independent and buck against the expectations placed on her not only by Ghassan but also the daeva community. Importantly, we see her refusing to be coddled and protected solely within her community so she’s not where Manizheh wants her to be when Daevabad falls to Manizheh’s armies.

Book 3: Ali: It’s fitting that she starts this book back in Cairo where she can confront her past and be offered what she thought she would want - a peaceful life with a secure occupation. This is the part where Nahri comes into her power and her complete agency and rejects the easy path to do what is right not only for her but those who she has come to see as her people and it’s fitting that it’s with Ali by her side that she does this. They’ve gone from being ancestral enemies to reluctant allies to best friends and it’s in this book where romantic feelings develop. They’ve learnt from each other, shown how well they work together and now they are going to change the world together. It’s also here that we see just how much they complement each other - Nahri’s name means “from the river” and Ali is a descendent of the river lord Nahri took her name from. In fact, she rejects her birth name because Nahri is her true name just as Ali is her true partner in all the ways that count. Dara was her introduction to the world of the djinn but Ali is the one who is able to complete her knowledge of herself and her parents through the memories from Sobek. He is the mature love that will last because it’s based on a strong foundation of trust, respect and understanding and I think it’s beautiful

[daevabadthoughts]

Something I noticed rereading The Kingdom of Copper

So here’s how Ali describes the pavilion Ghassan built for Ali’s mother:

And then, of course, there’s the office Ali builds for Nahri:

I suspect he didn’t notice the connection, but regardless, really freaking subtle, Ali

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So over the course of the time jump between CoB and KoC, Nahri starts to identify much more strongly as a Daeva. For a number of reasons–her longing for a home and family, her isolation, Nisreen’s influence. But I also think a potential factor is Ghassan, and how he manipulates the court in general and Nahri in particular. I think he may actively encourage Nahri to think like this to more easily control her as a potential political threat.

Ghassan’s motto is that Daevabad comes first. What he means by that is stability comes first, order comes first, preventing chaos is more important than anything else and is worth whatever atrocities it takes. His goal, more than anything else, is to maintain the status quo. As a result, his lofty rhetoric about uniting the tribes is, at best, a side project. And in reality, he’s more than willing to exploit tribal tensions to maintain power. He may not be actively sowing discord among the tribes, as Kaveh does, but he uses the Daeva’s fear of the shafit to control them, and the djinn tribes’ resentment of Daeva prosperity and fear of Daeva nationalism to keep the other tribes in line. (And the other five tribes’ resentment of Ayaanle meddling, and probably other tensions that don’t come up in the books.) The illusion that Ghassan is a relatively neutral party, maybe less than ideal but better than any tribes’ personal enemies being in power, is what keeps him on the throne.

Then Nahri arrives, possibly the biggest threat to the status quo Ghassan’s ever faced, and he has to decide what to do about her.

Keep reading

[daevabadthoughts]

the absolute audacity of the daeva tribe (or just the nahids honestly), to take the name of the entire species as their personal tribe name, and then get all salty about the other tribes referring to themselves as djinn! like. ‘we’re in charge, so we’re gonna make this asshole move and then look down on everyone else because of what we did’

they really said like ‘we’re the only daevas now none of you can be daevas’ and everyone else was like, ‘that’s fine we’ll be djinn’ and the daeva tribe clutched their collective pearls in horror. but like what was the alternative? were they just supposed to sit around and feel bad about being excluded? about being un-daevaed in name now as well as physicality?

???????

and this is mirrored in daevabad as a place. the daevas founded it, and invited members of other tribes to live there. and even now are crowing about how it’s their fucking city and everyone else needs to… do what exactly? get out? concede that it’s not their home too? it seems so ill-mannered to me to do this. you can’t invite people to live in a place and expect them to act like guests there in perpetuity. either it’s somewhere for everyone or it isn’t, you know?

abu sayf sums it up perfectly: “i suppose i never really thought of daevabad as a daeva city… feels like the center of our world should belong to us all”

which is such a lovely sentiment and really crystalizes the issue. part of daevabad’s beauty and appeal is that it’s the one place where all the tribes mingle. it’s a cacophony of languages and architectural styles and dress. and anahid and the daevas will forever be at the start of its history, but that doesn’t give them ownership of it. why isn’t the creation of a wonder that brings everyone together enough? why should they also be the only ones allowed to enjoy it?

oh my god and the shafit! these poor people have literally nowhere else in the entire world they’re even allowed to go. surely that makes them a part of daevabad too? surely it makes it their home?

[daevabadthoughts]

⚠️ major Daevabad spoilers below ⚠️

Something I love and hate about the Daevabad Trilogy is its attention to detail and then its complete lack thereof.

The series is amazing in its layering of worldbuilding and character dynamics; the author has repeatedly mentioned how she's spent a decade thinking about this world and its characters, and it really shows through in repeated readings. This is a series that rewards careful rereadings and paying attention to small details.... Up to a point. Because after a certain point, it becomes really clear that no one thoroughly fact checked later details.

Muntadhir's mother, Queen Saffiyeh, died during the summer per KoC, and it's a major reference/plot point in that book. And yet (in significant connection to this), RoS has Jamshid being born in early spring, a time of the year where Manizheh could have EASILY returned to Daevabad in time to save the queen's life.

In 2020 Shannon posted a timeline for the trilogy on Instagram, and noted how she removed references to Ali's 25th birthday from EoG's script. And yet in RoS when we see Ali's 25th birthday, she places it a year and a half after Empire of Gold. 🤨 Meaning Ali was either 23 for nearly two years, or they're actually secretly celebrating his birthday 8+ months after the fact.

And this happens in so many smaller instances. There's a five year timeskip between CoB and KoC, but both books have a royal court scene stating the calendar date, revealing that there's been a 200 year timeskip! And don't get me started on the tattoos for the major characters and how their placement on the body constantly shifts. Appearing on the brow, their temple, or their upper cheek is constantly used interchangeably, and in CoB Ghassan's tattoo/Suleiman's Seal appears on one side of his face at the beginning of a chapter, and then moves to the other side of his face at the end of that same chapter! 😩 And this inconsistency continues until the author just gives up entirely on referencing placements in later books, rather than just deciding on a location and sticking with it.

Nahri gets shot with an arrow in EoG, but whether it's located in her chest or her shoulder depends on the paragraph. This feels especially egregious because the author used to work in the medical field, and there's a significant difference in being injured in those locations.

But I find this inconsistency incredibly frustrating because as long as these books are, it is not that time consuming to go back and check the old details. Especially when these scenes can be narrowed down by character pov, or their location in the plot timeline. (or just use the fucking search feature because these scripts are written digitally) It is also not difficult to have a piece of paper or a word doc that lists where the tattoos are located, or which finger the ring appears on, or what color a weapon is. Or what season characters were born or died in, especially if it's plot relevant. These are basic character details.

And it's frustrating for a series that asks its readers--that rewards its readers!--for paying attention to the small, quiet sentences to get the full breadth of the character dynamics or the building plot, or what the author is really trying to express in her insanely subtle way, to then turn around and say, actually, those details don't matter. Don't pay attention to those.

This attitude also plays out in character choices, particularly at the end of the series where it's obvious recent changes were made to those arcs, but that is (a number of) very different posts.

[daevabadthoughts]

Today I am thinking about The Empire of Gold e-arc and mourning these lines that were cut from chapter 20, when Nahri was taking care of an injured Ali in the boat cabin after their escape to the ocean.

(Nahri: “It means no more marid magic. Not at sea and not when we get back to shore. Don’t use it again. Not ever.”)

Ali sighed, looking resigned. Exhausted, in a way that made him seem both older and more vulnerable. “We’re at war, Nahri. It’s the only power I have.”

And:

(Nahri: “I’m going to see if I can’t steep some willow bark in the sun.” Work, her most favored distancing technique. “It will help with your pain.”)

“Will you . . . will you come back after?” Ali asked hesitantly, suddenly sounding a little embarrassed. “And perhaps stay a bit?”

Don’t do this. Not now. Not again.

Nahri met his eyes. “Yes.”

Like, Ali is just so soft here. He's in pain and openly afraid of what happened with the marid, but still trying to smile and reassure her. Nahri is literally begging him to stop using his magic because she doesn't want to see him lured to his death and is admitting aloud that she doesn't want to lose him. That she can't. The fervor of it completely taking him by surprise, and making Nahri realize, oh shit, she's falling for him.

And then in the perfect vulnerable/comfort trope of a sick person asking the person they care for to stay for a while, it is instead cut out and replaced in the final version with:

“No, don’t talk—” she added, raising a hand when Ali opened his mouth. “Just rest. Doctor’s orders.”

Hhhhhh 😒

(ALSO: While the "Don't do this. Not again." Nahri line is moved to another paragraph and expanded on so readers can be sure she's talking about her growing feelings for Ali in the final version, and I feel like that does work better; I love how Nahri tries to warn herself away and yet agrees to return to Ali's side. It totally parallels with their kiss in ch. 32 and how Ali tries to warn himself away with why they shouldn't be doing this and yet when Nahri asks if he wants to stop, he looks at her and says no. Like. It's so good!!!)

[daevabadthoughts]

Today I am realizing that the sigil for the Ayaanle is a pun.

In one sense, the scales represent commerce because the Ayaanle are wealthy from trading their gold and salt.

In another sense, scales can be... y'know. Of the marid kind.

[daevabadthoughts]

Thinking about how if the Daevabad series was made into a video game, it should be split into three main narratives with each one having a different style of gameplay

Ali's would be like Uncharted, with exploring, treasure hunting/learning about historical artifacts, and puzzle solving. There'd be combat sections too but Ali would have some non-lethal options (if the player wanted to use them), AND he could persuade some opponents to join his side through earnesty and talking about justice. If successful, they'll join his party for the rest of the level.

Nahri's would be like a D&D campaign or rpg. Presented with a starting scene and then it's up to players how to proceed, whether to con or steal or build alliances. Trying to evade Ghassan's traps and Zaynab's tricks too, although you have the option of trying to win Zaynab's trust. Very political-based, with some healing mini-games and a few fight scenes. Also some love side-quests because of course.

Dara's would be like Dishonored because of the title alone. Very violence-based, with multiple options that always snowball towards genocide because life sucks. It's intended to make the player think, "maybe if I go back to an earlier save and choose a different option, this shit won't happen!" and they do so and then a whole other path of bullshit unfolds and it still leads to disaster. Every level ends with the player wanting to scream "son of a bitch!!" or accepting chaos and riding it into hell.

If enough points are gained or through dlc, other narratives/gameplay styles can be unlocked too.

Fiza's would be like that Assassins Creed ocean game. Lots of sailing involved and piracy, and attacking opponents. Maybe also searching for clues about her missing mom?

Muntadhir.... Some kind of gambling game. Out-drinking your rivals while also learning their secrets without getting exposed.

Zaynab... Similar to Muntadhir's but instead involves dressing up and creating your own fashion designs and jewelry. Maybe also a point and click adventure? Politics-based too.

Jamshid's is an archery and horse-stable game. Maybe also partly a Legend of Zelda ripoff where he learns about his secret ancestry? But mainly mini-games where he spars and maintains his horse/elephant stable, and runs errands so he can sneak in boyfriend time with Muntadhir.

The game's plot mostly follows the novels, but it's loose enough that players can slightly alter some smaller aspects of it. And yes, there are unlockable/hidden costumes and silly hats ❤️

[daevabadthoughts]

Now that I've learned how to do the read more cut on mobile, I am very excited to finally share my thoughts on Ali and Some Very Significant Water Things that he deals with in The Empire of Gold.

Specifically his thoughts on it, and how he views it affecting his relationships with others. And particularly how it all leads up to that bright smile of his at the end.

So needless to say, this has major spoilers for the final Daevabad book.

Image credit to: cultof-aphrodite (this image represents all of my tears)

So I’ve been thinking about Ali's marid connection-- his relationship to it as well as how other people feel about it-- and how that affects him as seen in EoG.

One part of his overall story arc is how he feels conflicted about the marid. He grew up in a society that treated them as monsters that haven't been seen in generations. That cursed the lake surrounding his city and tore up any djinn that fell into that lake, to the point that it was used by his government as a capital punishment. The gossip that ancient Ayaanle worshipped the marid and made blood sacrifices for wealth or power clashed with his Muslim faith, and fed into racist slurs thrown at the Ayaanle. Throughout the trilogy there are characters that call Ali "crocodile," a slur which clearly hurts him.

And then things get really complicated. At the end of CoB, Ali fell into the lake and was tortured by the lake marid. Ultimately possessing him in order to kill Dara, this had the side-effect of awakening Ali's unknown marid heritage.

And while in CoB Ali is horrified by his new water powers and ability to sense it, in KoC he recognizes that it's the reason he survived his trek through Am Gezira's desert. More so, he grows to genuinely enjoy it. Whether he's swimming, or bringing forth new springs to help barren villages; delighting in the mists that form around him, or seeing/traveling the currents... He likes his connection to water and the peace it brings him, even as he's terrified that he'll get caught and punished for it. Especially since in Daevabad his powers grow stronger and the people are less forgiving than in his village.

So his fear and concern doesn’t come from the water, but other people's responses to it. Which has me reconsidering all of the small glimpses we see of people responding to his marid-ness in EoG. Especially since this book series makes it clear that each pov character shows some kind of personal bias in their perception of things.

So like in ch. 12 where he's telling Nahri about his water abilities, and how he feels fortunate that she's thoughtful about it rather than repulsed or afraid. 

Or in ch. 43 when he and Fiza are on the boat after they rise through Daevabad's lake, and he asks God to bless her for treating him with her normal level of rudeness. When she first sees him changed she absolutely freaks out, as is her reaction to all things strange. But she quickly adapts to it and proves herself to still be his ally as she travels the world with him and helps convince the various djinn communities that he is still one of them as they recruit for their army. Invaluable, as most of the djinn he meets are terrified of him or call him a "marid abomination." I should also mention that by this point Ali is forced to speak softly so as to not further alarm them as his crocodile eyes and mist encircling him is intimidating enough.

Even during the battle for Daevabad when Ali pulls himself aboard one of the ships, he's encouraged that his own Ayaanle soldiers don't immediately attack him.

His siblings meanwhile kind of dance around his physical changes. But they’ve also known Ali the longest, and I feel like that shows with their interaction in ch. 47. Zaynab delicately asking if the marid will ever free him or return his fire magic. She treats him kindly, but makes it clear she wants nothing to do with this marid heritage she shares with him. Muntadhir meanwhile playfully ribs him, and lists Ali's marid traits as how they would help him in reforming the government. Though the f-bomb is cut from the final copy, I feel it's a bit revealing that in the e-arc Dhiru describes Ali's eyes as "fucking terrifying." (actually a lot of f-bombs were cut from the final copy. Sad times; EoG absolutely earned every usage.)

That same chapter shows Ali reflecting on his sacrifice to the marid and how he personally feels at peace with it. That acknowledging his watery heritage has settled a certain part of himself. But he also reflects on how people will treat him differently now because they're scared and appalled. About how he expects that one day when his status as a hero loses its shine, that their treatment of him will get worse and that there will be days that cut and feel unbearable. That no matter what, he will always be an outsider. Though he says he still doesn’t regret it, I feel like this is both premature and plays into his scenes with Nahri in ch. 48.

For one, we learn that Ali hasn't even seen Nahri since she woke up in the hospital. That after telling her that he's an ambassador for the marid and that’s why his appearance has changed, he avoids her for a whole week. (It's worth remembering that before they split up in Ta Ntry, they are each other's best friend.) Zaynab tells him to give her space because "he can be smothering," but I can't help but wonder if that space is in part to let Nahri adjust to his new looks without him being around her. 

When he finally does see Nahri in the palace in ch. 48, he hangs back, nervous. Even after their embrace and catching up, when he learns that she's leaving the palace, he's devastated and starts rambling about how he has no expectations for her or for them as a couple.

Which when combined with the above points… really makes me think that Ali was concerned that Nahri wouldn't be interested in him anymore because of his marid looks and heritage. 😢 That despite everything they went through together and their mutual feelings expressed in Shefala, his changes put her beyond him again. Or alternatively, that what happened was just some madness of the moment and held no weight in their new world. And so he tried to distance himself first. 💔💔💔

Which maybe explains why Nahri's vulnerable request to keep spending time with him in a normal setting, and that she wasn't going to let him out of her debt, led him to having "the brightest, happiest smile she's ever seen from him." Because it’s not just confirmation that she still wants a relationship with him, whether it be platonic or romantic, but that she accepts his new marid reality, too. 😢💖

And while Ali’s personal relationships are safe, he does have to change his behavior for others. Where the Ali from CoB and KoC would lose his patience or give rousing speeches to inspire others and tear down corruption, now he has to speak softly so he doesn’t frighten others. Even when leading his own people into battle on the lake, he worried if his surprise appearance would cause them to attack him. When he snaps in the hospital room after he learns Dara shot Nahri, the whole room’s temperature dropped into a cold chill. Ali learning to hold his tongue and speak carefully is no longer just to improve his diplomacy skills, but is now critical to continue being welcomed in the larger djinn community.

And honestly, I don't have the vocabulary to describe how I feel about Ali's and the Ayaanle's experience of being called crocodile as a slur now having a foundation in Ali's family line being related to Sobek. Or how Ali's marid abilities are tied to his torture by them, whether it be the lake marid or Tiamat. I don't like that it's all rooted in pain. And I don't like that in every sense of Ali's identity, he is the outlier because he belongs to another group.

But this whole series is about complications and gray nuance. There are going to be Post-EoG stories in The River of Silver anthology which will include a story on our new river lord. So hopefully we'll be able to see how Ali is adjusting to his new life as openly-marid, and how he's fitting in. I hope the reality isn't as gloomy as Ali perceived it to be.

[daevabadthoughts]

Gonna post so many thoughts ❤️