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[danaredbeard]

I swear The Ones Who Live is a zombie remake of The Wiz

Soundtrack

Part One

Part Two

Part Three

Part Four

[danaredbeard]

After 6 long years, man, my consignment is over

[danaredbeard]

The Walking Dead 5x10 // The Ones Who Live

[danaredbeard]

If this isn’t Biblical , I don’t know what is. This was the morning the Garden of Eden was destroyed …

Full Circle Apple Symbolism; Rick's "Resurrection" in TOWL

From TWD 10x13 What We Become to TOWL 1x6 The Last Time

Apple symbolism was always tied to Rick and Michonne specifically, but in a more general sense, it tells a story about reunion, rebirth and resurrection.

In TWD 10x13 What We Become, Michonne went with Virgil to his island, because he insisted there were weapons to be found there, and Michonne needed weapons for the Whisperers war.

Once there, things took a turn. There were no weapons, and Virgil wasn't in a great place, psychologically speaking. He was confused and traumatized after the loss of his wife and children. He trapped Michonne in a room, and poisoned her by mixing Jimsonweed into her tea.

My favorite way to decipher symbolism in TWDU is through etymology. Almost everything in TWDU has multiple layers of symbolism, and an etymology search is helpful in most cases. This one was no exception; the name Jimsonweed is ultimately derived from a Hindi name which translates to "thorn apple".

Yup. Jimsonweed is ultimately an apple reference. In fact, "Jimsonweed" goes under the name "thorn apple" in many languages, my own included.

The first apple reference of the episode came as we watched Virgil pick the hallucinogenic plant immediately after the opening credits. There would be more to come later...

Michonne did not have a pleasant reaction to the drug. She hallucinated herself in a series of alternate existences, such as being one of the Saviors, and not being around her real family. After the drugs wore off, she overpowered Virgil, and scolded him for putting her in a drugged out state where she experienced having temporarily lost her family:

Then she asked him about his hallucinations:

And this is where we start to touch on the true meaning behind the symbolism around apples. Because, unlike Michonne, Virgil experienced that the hallucinogenic thorn apple brought his family back to him:

"What do you see when you're tripping anyway?"

"Lisa with that damn camera pointed at everyone.

My babies.

Bobby and me lying on the roof of that Annex, looking up at the stars."

It brought his family back.

Virgil wasn't primarily evil, he was broken from the trauma of losing his family.

There's a parallel with Rick there. Where Rick survived in the CRM by meeting up with his loved ones in his dreams, Virgil got to be with his family by taking hallucinogenic herbs. They both found ways to stay close to their loved ones through an altered state, Rick through his dreams, Virgil through the thorn apple tea.

On a surface level, it's clear that Michonne had a bad trip from the thorn apple, and that she was shook by what she experienced as a temporary loss of her family. She was rightfully angry about having been drugged. Virgil, more confused and traumatized than evil, explained that he had wanted to help her because he could tell she was in pain over having lost loved ones, much like himself.

Michonne was not impressed, but at the very least she didn't kill him.

However, under the surface, the apple symbolism heralds "reunion, rebirth and resurrection", something which she was about to discover:

Virgil took her to a boat marked with the numbers 672, in which she found Rick's boots and an Apple iPhone with etchings of herself and Judith. It was the same boat we later saw in 11x24 Rest In Peace, when we saw Rick throw his backpack onboard, before being recaptured.

This is the first "proof of life" both we, the audience, and Michonne got from Rick, and it was the apple symbolism that led us here. Because, apple symbolism is about reunion, resurrection and rebirth.

As we know, finding the Apple iPhone and his boots was what convinced her Rick could be alive, it was what encouraged her to leave to search for Rick.

We recently watched her succeed at finding him in TOWL, but not without some resistance from a deeply traumatized Rick.

In TOWL 1x4 What We, which is the episode where Rick fully "came back", the episode where he finally broke free and chose "life" with Michonne over staying "dead" in the CRM, we learned that he had initially gotten through the days in the CRM by meeting up with Carl in his dreams.

Then that had stopped, Carl had stopped coming to him in his dreams.

Michonne had gotten an iPhone with an etching of Carl, and implored Rick to do what Carl would have wanted him to do, which led to a psychological breakthrough for Rick.

This was Rick's true "resurrection", this was when he fully "surrendered" to Michonne, to his family, to "life". It was the Apple iPhone with Carl's picture that truly made Michonne able to reach through to him, through all the layers of trauma and isolation accumulated over time.

On a symbolic level, the apple symbolism and the Apple iPhones were what facilitated this reunion between Rick and Michonne. He had survived in the CRM by "being dead", then the Apple iPhone with Carl's picture "brought him back to life".

This symbolized Rick's "resurrection", this was the true purpose of the apple symbolism all along. Apple symbolism is about "reunion, resurrection and rebirth"!

Similarly, it was the Apple iPhone Michonne found in the boat on Virgil's island that made her believe that Rick could truly be alive, it was the Apple iPhone that convinced her he was out there, that made her go out searching for him.

Apple symbolism as something that heralds reunion, resurrection and rebirth had started with Virgil picking the white thorne apple flower in 10x13 What We Become, and was fulfilled with Rick's "resurrection" in TOWL 1x4 What We.

In 1x6 The Last Time, we see Rick utilize this new insight during Major General Beale's Echelon briefing:

"He brought me back".

The Apple iPhone with Carl's picture brought him back. Back to Michonne, back to his family, back to himself, back to life.

Just like how the thorn apple tea brought Virgil's family back to him, the Apple iPhone with Carl's picture brought Rick back to his family.

Then finally, we see the apple symbolism fulfilled one last time:

We see Michonne holding the Apple iPhone she originally found on Virgil's island, the one that convinced her that Rick could be alive, the one that prompted her to go out searching for him. We see this phone, with etchings of herself and Judith just as the apple symbolism comes full circle:

The final reunion, resurrection and rebirth!

[danaredbeard]

Plenty of highly intelligent people end up getting sucked in to cults because they just wanted people to hang out with. There are antivaxxer nurses. Your ability to act on empirical reason breaks down fast if your social and emotional needs aren't being met.

[danaredbeard]

Umm, ma’am… remember when Rick put a tomato (surrounded by clovers) on Carl’s grave the day Rick “died”?

I love your analysis of symbols so much makes sense now.

The Love Apple and Agape

More On The Apple Symbolism in TWDU

@wdway shared something really interesting with me after my post on apple symbolism yesterday. In my post, I talked primarily about the apple symbolism around TWD 10x13 and TOWL, which of course were all Richonne-centered episodes. But as we know, there's plenty of apple references on the show, some are heavily tied up in TD/Bethyl stuff and thangs.

I just wanted to share @wdway's discovery because there were connections there that I hadn't been aware of, and maybe others will find it interesting as well.

@wdway has been talking about how the French sometimes refer to the tomato as a "love apple", "pomme d'amour" for years, and she suggested that just as the Apple iPhone is synonymous with the apple symbolism in some cases, one could say that in other cases, tomatoes could also be synonymous with apple symbolism.

And for TD, this is particularly interesting in light of episodes 4x12 Still and 4x13 Alone, where we saw cans of tomato sause several times:

As we know, Beth and Daryl's time in the funeral home was paralleled with Sasha and Bob's budding romance, and they had the same type of tomato sauce can-on-strings symbolism around them.

One thing that was completely new to me was that the number "26", seen here feature prominently on the front porch of the funeral home, has some really intriguing connotations to it:

@wdway had discovered years ago that the number "26" corresponds with the word "agape" in the Bible:

Strong's concordance refers to an index over words in the original Greek and Hebrew languages in the Bible, and word number 26 is "agape", which means "love"...

Do with that what you will...

...but I'm inclined to side-eye that HEAVILY! Beth and Daryl's shelter, literally marked with a number that means "love"...?

Keep in mind that while Daryl is arranging the can-on-string alarm system with the cans of tomato sauce, or should I say "love apple-sauce"...

...he gets a visit from the one-eyed dog, the "celestial being", the "heavenly beast with a star in its eye, as poet Robert Frost would have said:

I've talked about how Sirius symbolism is resurrection symbolism in many posts, how it tells a story of reunion, resurrection and rebirth, and in yesterday's post I elaborated on how apple symbolism ties into the same themes of reunion, resurrection and rebirth. Keep that in mind as I remind you that the French call tomatoes "love apples".

So, we have cans of "love apple-sause", directly underneath a large number "26", which means "love" on Beth and Daryl's shelter for the night , and we have a Sirius dog that heralds reunion, resurrection and rebirth.

And, speaking of tomato sauce as "love apple-sauce"...

As @danaredbeard commented on my apple post from yesterday, Aaron actually brought apple sause when trying to recruit TF in 5x10 Them. We saw that in the episode after, when Rick forced him to eat it to prove it wasn't poisoned:

Aaron wasn't personally a fan of apple sauce, but he "argeed" (under some pressure, but still...) to eat a spoon-full to demonstrate that it was safe for human consumption.

Aaron ultimately came with an offer of a new start for TF in Alexandria, a "rebirth"...

...and it came at a time when they needed it the most...

Aaron came with "good news", as though he was spreading the literal Gospel:

And as every TD'er ever will remember, what happend next was a "resurrection of sorts":

The broken music box responded to Aaron's "good news" by spontaniously resurrecting...

There's actually one more thing, and interestingly, it ties into themes of "good news" and "Gospel":

Yes, it turns out that the number "26" also represents the Hebrew word for God, "Yahweh".

I didn't know any of this, so thanks @wdway for sharing. Hopefully someone else will also find it interesting.

@wdway also has thoughts on how the apple symbolism relates to the story about Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and a certain apple there that caused quite a stir. We did see symbolism relating to that in TWDDD:

That's probably a post for a different day, but I did touch on in in this post from last year.

Finally, I thought I'd add a little tidbit of my own, something I discovered some time ago, which actually does relate to all the canned tomato/love-apple sauce stuff.

Take a look at the can of tomato/love apple-sause in this shot, right next to the wine bottle (cough *ethanol* cough):

I'd say thats a number 10 can:

Could it be that these cans we see all the time in TWDU are convoluted references to the number 10?

Everyone who's been in TD for any length of time know how we obsess over the 10.10 Slabtown clock seen behind Beth and Dr. Edwards here:

There are plenty of theories on what those numbers on that clock means, here's a recent theory of mine that touches on the subject (X).

Anybody's guess is as good as mine, but some obvious interpretations include 10 as in Roman Numeral X, which obviously is a cross, which obviously is resurrection symbolism. An "X" is also obviously an iteration of a cross, as the one found on the back of the Grady cars, which again ties the symbolism around crosses directly to Beth.

I also personally love the "X" as in the branding mark Daryl and Michonne suffered in season 9:

In Daryl's case, the X seen next to his already existing scars, interestingly forms Roman Numerals X II, which could be a foreshadow of episode 10x11 Morningstar. I've explained why that is interesting here, and I also touched on it here. Long story short, "Morningstar", among other things, refers to Revelation 22.16, in which Christ is called the Morning Star. So again, there's resurrection symbolism all over the place.

And while we're on the subject of Morning Stars, I have to mention the Sirius symbolism and the Venus symbolism we keep seeing, as Venus and Sirius are both referred to as Morningstars.

Also, the kind of branding Michonne and Daryl experienced, is technically a form of cauterization, which I discussed here.

Read more about the cauterization and the symbolism around fire and how it relates to a "cure" here, here and here.

And for anyone looking forward to TWDDD season 2, it's interesting to see that the apple symbolism is alive and well over in France as well:

[danaredbeard]

The Ones Who Live Soundtrack

Believe

Home

Ease on Down the Road

You can’t win

What would I do if I could feel

Mean Ole Lion

Brand New World

[danaredbeard]

I was thinking of you @frangipanilove when I saw this. What do you think about deer? I kinda see them as sacrifices or “close calls” Carl shot, Rick falls of Ferris wheel, Michonne sacrificing the deer she hunted to Negan. So for this room to be literally surrounded by deer and deer antlers…???

There is your big bear.

And there is a horse on the desk didn’t circle it.

Any ideas what this all means?

@frangipanilove I edited to add:

Michonne comes in and hits the rack bringing our attention to it. This was the first shot before it turned. Karl and Faith

More Pharmakon: Why Alcohol/Ethanol Is Sirius Symbolism

This time illustrated by Denise and the Danville Bridge Whiskey in TWD 6x14 Twice As Far

We learned about "pharmakon" in TOWL 1x3 Bye, when Major General Beale explained how it was an ancient Greek word, meaning "a poison and a cure". We saw cans of ethanol in the back of Richonne's yellow escape car in TOWL 1x4 What We, and I've since explored, in a series of posts, the connections between pharmakon, ethanol/alcohol and fire, and how they all tie into the Sirius symbolism we've seen around Beth and Rick for years.

Read about how FTWD season 4 established the ethanol=cure symbolism here. Read the "Fighting Fire With Fire" posts on how the ethanol, fire and pharmakon symbolism all ties together here, here and here.

We learned in TWD 4x12 Still, that Beth would come to be deeply connected to the symbolism around alcohol/ethanol. And we learned as far back as in 1x6 TS-19 that Daryl wasn't exactly opposed to it either.

Resurrection symbolism in TWDU is about "fire", and Beth has always been all about fire, she's a fire starter, she’s quite literally an arsonist, she’s a Light Bringer:

As we remember from Still, Beth established a direct connection between alcohol/ethanol and the eh... issues relating to eye sight. And in 6x14 Twice As Far, we watched Denise become intextricably linked to the same symbolism, when she was killed by Dwight, who shot an arrow through her eye:

The issues surrounding eye sight are of course tied to the Sirius symbolism from 4x13 Alone, when Beth and Daryl were visited by a "celestial being", a one-eyed dog, representing Sirius the Dog Star, or in the words of poet Robert Frost, the "heavenly beast with a star in its eye":

As I explained in the "Fighting Fire With Fire" posts, fire/Sirius symbolism is connected to the alcohol/ethanol symbolism.

In 6x13 Twice As Far, we saw this connection illustrated by the tragic death of Denise. She was shot through the eye with an arrow, marking her as a Sirius character in a nod to the one-eyed dog from Alone, which is ultimately a clue to Sirius the Dog Star.

Denise's death affected Daryl deeply, and in what to me is one of the most heartbreaking scenes of the entire franchise, we saw Daryl, numb with pain, bury Denise, his angel wings laying on the grass next to him.

A few notes on this tragic tableau: the angel wings on Daryl's vest represent the bird symbolism (wings=birds because, well, birds have wings, for the most part). The Danville Bridge Whiskey is a reference to the notion of bridges, elevators, ladders and stairwells as metaphorical "passages" through which the characters can pass between “the realms”.

I wrote about this symbolism after TOWL 1x4 What We.

Of course, for TD, the most notable exemples of the bird symbolism came in the form of a painting, the Blue Heron, seen around both Beth and Rick:

I've written many posts on bird symbolism, here's a selection: (X) (X) (X) (X)

And just as a reminder, after TWD 10x11 Morningstar, one of the wings on Daryl's vest is now blue, further cementing the wings as blue bird symbolism:

We also saw Daryl empty a miniature bottle of Danville Bridge Whiskey, which they had found earlier that day:

It might be worth remembering that Denise had specifically rejected Rosita’s offer to drink the whiskey, claiming alcohol was her parents thing, which is why it wasn’t hers:

While that’s an admirable position in real life, one can suspect the symbolism of TWDU works according to a different logic. It might seem as though Denise's refusal to drink the Danville Bridge Whiskey is what, at least on a symbolic level, sealed her fate.

If FTWD season 4 is to be believed, drinking alcohol/ethanol is the "antidote" to "death" in TWDU, it represents the "cure", the pharmakon:

And we saw that theme revisited in TOWL 1x4 What We, when Rick and Michonne escaped in an electric/bio-ethanol hybrid truck, with cans of ethanol in the back seat:

Sadly, it seems like Denise, by refusing the offer of a drink, set herself up for a tragic outcome in 6x14 Twice As Far.

Beth, on the other hand, spent the entire episode of 4x12 Still searching for booze:

In Denise’s case, there was therefore no “resurrection” involved. The arrow pierced her brain stem, and she was sadly dead, in the most permanent sense.

In contrast, we’ve seen how this symbolism has allowed Rick to recently “resurrect” in TOWL. The symbolism doesn't guarantee resurrection, but it allows for it. Remember, death and resurrection are two sides to the same story. Resurrection symbolism will be found around both "deaths" and "resurrections". The metaphorical "passages" between the realms are ever present, regardless of whether a character "chooses" to utilize them or not.

Rick “died” on a bridge, and he “resurrected” in TOWL, in an episode where we saw him choose life with Michonne and his family, over remaining “dead” in the CRM.

And as @bethgreeneprevails pointed out here, “echelon” as in the "echelon briefing", refers to "the rung of a ladder", indicating that the echelon briefing we kept hearing about in TOWL, would eventually be heavily tied up in resurrection symbolism. That's a post for another day, but it's a super interesting observation worth mentioning.

In episode TWD 8x2, the episode that had been foreshadowed by Noah's T-shirt with the stylized heron, we saw the Blue Heron painting around Rick. It was the same painting we had seen behind Beth in Still, and the bird symbolism of the heron foreshadowed his resurrection.

In the same episode, we also saw Rick and Daryl climb through elevator shafts, illustrating the presence of the aforementioned metaphorical "passages", allowing characters such as Rick (and Beth) to move "between the realms", from the "realm of the living" to the "realm of the dead". And sometimes, such as in Rick's case, they allow him to go back again, to "return" to the realm of the living, as we recently saw in TOWL.

For TD, this is of course interesting because we saw an elevator shaft feature prominently in TWD 5x4 Slabtown:

Again, we see that Beth is consistently surrounded by the same type of resurrection symbolism we see around Rick, a man who has now "died" and "resurrected" twice.

I also recently wrote about the bridge/elevator/ladder/stairwell symbolism in relation to Alicia from FTWD, who, as the first person ever in TWDU, was "cured" from the infection and subsequent fever she suffered following her walker bite in season 6. Her "transition" from someone with one foot in the grave, to someone who was competely healed, happened in a stairwell, one of these metaphorical "passages" between the realms.

In Denise’s case, there wasn't ever going to be a resurrection. Maybe drinking the Danville Bridge Whiskey instead of rejecting it could have changed that. But we see from the symbolism present at her burial that the ritual of “death” and burial in TWDU is always accompanied by an abundance of resurrection symbolism. Death and resurrection are two sides to the same story. The presence of the whiskey tells us that resurrection symbolism is always afoot in TWDU, but in this case, the character in question rejected it. It serves as a counterpoint to Beth’s intense hunt for alcohol/ethanol back in 4x12 Still, an episode named after the apparatus used in the production of alcohol/ethanol.

The "bridge" in Danville Bridge Whiskey refers to the "death and resurrection" symbolism we saw around Rick's "death" in TWD 9x5 The Bridge. It’s the same symbolism that has allowed him to die and resurrect twice now. It represents one of the metaphorical “passages” through which selected characters can travel between the “realms”, along with elevators, ladders and stairwells.

The “whiskey” in Danville Bridge Whiskey is an ethanol reference, which in turn plays into the symbolism around pharmakon and "fighting fire with fire".

And fire symbolism is Sirius symbolism. It refers to Sirius the Dog Star, the brightest star on the night sky, that returns one morning before dawn, after having been gone for some time. The word "Sirius" comes from Greek and translates to "glowing, scorching".

In other words, fire!

Fire born from ethanol/alcohol, as illustrated below by Beth and Daryl in 4x12 Still:

Beth has been at the center of this symbolism ever since the one-eyed dog visited in 4x13 Alone.

And as Denise was buried as a one-eyed Sirius character, the Danville Bridge Whiskey was there to remind us that "death" in TWDU is never far removed from "resurrection”.

[danaredbeard]

Will Michonne have a change of heart towards Maggie?

I mean when Michonne found out that it was Jadis that took Rick away for almost 8 years she wanted to outright kill Jadis.

Compare that with Negan killing Glenn, will Michonne now feel that Negan is fair game for Maggie to kill?

Rick stops Michonne from shooting Jadis he later even asks her if they could try to reason with Jadis. Michonne asks if she could maim her,,,

I wonder if Rick's return in season 2 (Manifesting) will cause more tension in the family. If that was really Carol telling Daryl that Rick was back she didn't sound joyful.

I have a feeling that Maggie might not be too happy either. Happy that Rick is alive but unhappy that she couldn't have the same outcome with Glenn and Carol has lost so much, with Henry.

Maggie and Carol could be a repeat of Sasha telling Michonne that “Things worked out for you”.

We will see.

[danaredbeard]

Rick Grimes fighting in the CRM THE WALKING DEAD: THE ONES WHO LIVE

[danaredbeard]

THE TIMING THOU

I was going back and forth with Okafor but.... this happened the moment Rick said he was "All in". Michonne not only snatched Rick out of the sky but OBLITERATED Okafor... not leaving a trace, which is exactly what Michonne will have to do with Rick to erase Okafor from of his psyche.

Before this Okafor says “No more A’s and B’s no more ??"ROMAL's"??” Then he says this plausible deniability phrase "I don't know how it will end..." So eight years you broke this man down and all you got was "don't hesitate" to kiss the sword.

In Rick’s last letter to Michonne he says all he sees in front of him is “Metal rotors, gun oil and blood” he also says there are some things that he would never be able to tell her.

When Rick meets Michonne he is sooooo ashamed of himself that he immediately denies his association with Okafor and the CRM so much so that he takes Michonne's sword and kills one of his CRM teammates.

Rick knows what they have done and I'm afraid he has also done some horrible things. Whatever this "ROMAL???" Is Rick has done it because he glares at Okafor when he mentions it.

Okafor’s death is bookended with Nat’s death. Notice the same position of the wound. Nat’s death forces us to compare Nat is “good” and innocent however, Okafor is “evil” and manipulative. When this show continues (manifesting) I think we will get some juicy backstory with Okafor because everything is layered and hidden.

I will never unsee this broken cross behind Okafor.

Nat says "What the f...". When Michonne smilingly introduces Rick. Nat sees through the BS.

Nat was sage in asking “Is it still him?” Nat still trying to save our girl. It took Michonne until the 3 episode to realize that it wasn’t the same Rick and she had to coax him out.

I could be totally wrong but even without meeting Okafor, Michonne had his number and was calling out to Rick the implausibility of his plan.

However, that is not to say Michonne couldn't make her own plans. I laughed when she told Jadis that Rick was going to get the Echelon Briefing and that they were going to figure out how to take down the CRM.

Well damn.

Just finished rewatching Ep 06 with Kenya and watching the Echelon briefing again had my brain firing and I wanted to just share and get your thoughts? Because you’ve been so prolific with the commentary so far I’m hoping you can help me tell if I’m onto something or nah.

1. Rick was testing Thorne when he came back and she failed. And we think she said that thing about changing her mind on giving up especially because the upper Echelon would get to save people they love. She saw this as her path to getting back that person she lost.

2. So many people are saying Okafur was just as bad as Beale or a bad guy full stop and I completely disagree. This man bombed his own wife rather than kill a city. He was in deep but I’ll bet the MOMENT he got that briefing, it did not take and he started planning. He killed himself inside just like Rick you could see it in his performance he was half a person. He knew he could not have been the sword/bomb. He became the shield. He kept Rick alive. To save the world from the CRM. That is not evil or anything like Beale IMO. It’s very gray but I don’t mind gray in this universe. He found his sword/bomb in Rick and was not giving that up, he would say what he had to to get Rick to Beale’s desk — it was a one time shot because of how long it took (they’re reading up on the Cold War man come on) — and even threatening Michonne that one time, he was saying “I’m lost, they got me, I can’t get close enough but YOU CAN.” He knew that if his plan worked Michonne and Rick’s family would be safe anyway. He also knew the value of Rick propaganda just like Beale that’s why he said “you already have the power” because Rick had power Okafur could never. His story of bombing his wife was a good one but Rick’s? Invaluable. So instead of dropping a bomb on his wife, he dropped Rick (and Michonne unknowingly) on the CRM. To be honest I don’t even think he thought Pearl was an A, but knew he could use her to keep an eye on Rick. And it’s not like he planned to die. He likely would have done exactly what Rick and Michonne did with the Republic if he could’ve lived to stand next to them after. They would see Okafur coming (Beale did sort of but the temptation of Rick was too juicy for Beale to resist so he let that bomb get closer and closer and when it didn’t blow up in his face right away he accepted the gift).

3. What you said about Beale is so spot on. Everything he said in that briefing gave it all away. He killed his past to become king of the mountain and REALLY THOUGHT he was gonna be a dictator because of his B program and Rick’s loyalty. He keeps saying “I” - he alone made moves. HE decided on civil war in Philly. HE decided the answer to 1 million strong Walker hoards was to seize the opportunity and make himself a world out of the old one. But that wasn’t conviction. It was cowardice. Beale hates himself. Likely a product of his father’s abuse. He spent years in the military trying not to hate himself but he failed. Now he gets to fashion a world that accepts him, looks up to him, and has no idea who he used to be/hate. But our baby boy Rick took him down so easy because Rick ACTUALLY HAS CONVICTION. Hell yeah he got taken down in disbelief, an elderly military guy who likely hasn’t actually had to fight since he became a military leader before the turn. Hell yeah Rick ran him through with his own fraudulent sword, because he’s a weak coward facing off with a man who chopped off his own damn hand just for love.

Ok I know that’s all a word salad but I hope I make some sense?

WHEW! I’m love this show!!! Thank you for involuntarily coming to my TED Talk.

hahaha I love this TED talk so thanks for inviting me!

I’ll try this in points like you did:

1. That’s an interesting point and I did kind of see it - though in Ep 04/05 he says to Michonne “she’s one of them”, and they’re even like gossiping about how hard she was going for the CRM. So yeah, I think he knew where he stood with Thorne, but also maybe hoped that there was some room for him to maneuver (or maybe he was trying to figure out how much room). But ofc she failed terribly.

2. I have posted some thoughts on Okafor and I’m actually working on a post re:his relationship with Power (compare-contesting with Beale’s - the books that the show decides to label them with are RICH in meaning), so I’ll be returning to this, but I guess the TL;DR is: Beale was broken before the apocalypse, while Okafor was broken by the apocalypse. They landed in the same place coming from essentially opposite trajectories, but their final meeting point remains the same. Intentions and their own personal narratives (the ones they tell themselves) aside, they do land side by side. So yes, degrees of evil, and incidental evil, but still…I’m much less confident that he would have gone with Michonne’s plan. I’m still working on the other post, but I will point out that Munenori and Ueshiba (the authors referenced by Beale and Okafor respectively) were both traditionalists, and Ueshiba very much a nationalist.

3. Ooh I like the bit about conviction because I do think Beale had “conviction” meaning he was convinced of his own greatness? But the rest was all bullshit so consciously or unconsciously he was standing on a sand castle. Meanwhile Rick like you said, he had the realest most solid of motivations. And (you know, cause I’m me) from a historical/institutional pov, we know these fellows are cowardice personified so I love that detail too, because it’s very true to life.

[danaredbeard]

HE was so fine this season, THAT BEARD WAS SOOOO

[danaredbeard]

Every time I see this scene I immediately think of this—

There's a lot of talk about Rick and RJ and how they interacted and how the actors played the scene, but my eyes keep gravitating to Michonne in this moment. The way she presents RJ to Rick is just so... like she's nervous and proud and trying to process the fact that her son is finally able to meet his father and the love of her life is finally able to meet the manifestation of their bond.

It's too much 🥹😭

[danaredbeard]

THE ONES WHO LIVE EPISODE FOUR: WHAT WE

[WRITTEN BY DANAI GURIRA]

-> Vulture: After some tedious lies and deceptions, in Michonne’s words, they needed a time-out. That’s exactly what they get in one of the best stand-alone episodes in all of The Walking Dead. (…) It’s like watching a two-person play, which makes sense, as the episode’s writer, Danai Gurira (Michonne herself), is an acclaimed and Tony-nominated playwright (…..) “What We” is not a bottle episode. Multiple sets in a single location, two characters with an internal conflict, and the special-effects budget make it a “Suitcase” episode. Editors Rating: 5 stars

Bloody-Disgusting: Andrew Lincoln once again showcases a masterclass of acting as Grimes cycles through his damaged psyche, desperately trying to figure out how to connect with Michonne. Gurira matches Lincoln’s emotional performance, evoking Michonne’s desperation and anger with authenticity. Letting Gurira take over writing duties for this specific episode proved extremely beneficial given the emotional legwork the character trudges through in this particular installment. If there’s anyone who can understand Michonne the best, it’s Danai Gurira.

The Hollywood Reporter: As the writer of the episode, Gurira felt she clearly understood Michonne’s arc, but she wanted to make sure her co-star and fellow executive producer Lincoln had enough meat to sink his teeth into, as well. “You want to give an actor like him everything you can,” she says. “Andy’s such a fantastic actor who throws everything into it. I was keen to give him that workout.” Lincoln added to THR, “It was thrilling to do all of this with friends, but Danai had one heck of a role as well as showrunning the fourth episode as an added responsibility. I thought the work she did on that was an astonishing testament to her skills, especially because apparently she only needs two hours a day to sleep.”

Den of Geek: To call it a bottle episode is dismissive. Certainly, there’s one major setting, and most of the episode contains little in the way of special effects (by the standards of the average Walking Dead Televisual Universe show). However, most bottle episodes aren’t this interesting, or this gripping. “What We” feels like The Walking Dead taking a stab at doing a spinoff of the Richard Linklater Before trilogy, not wallowing in the usual zombie action or soap opera frippery. It’s almost certainly going to be polarizing, but it’s one of the most captivating, emotionally-deep episodes of television from this universe, and it’s all down to the powerhouse that is Danai Gurira.

SpoilerTV: “What We” is a captivating exploration of love’s transformative force. Rick and Michonne shed their pretenses, abandoning deceit to forge a profound reconnection. Andrew Lincoln’s performance brilliantly resurrects Rick from the abyss of a living man who is dead inside, courtesy of Danai’s masterful writing.

Bleeding Cool: But it’s Gurira pulling double duty that deserves all of the attention and tons of praise. Proving that she knows this couple and their dynamic better than anyone, Gurira presented us with what felt like a real couple going through the problems with real reactions- even in the midst of a zombie apocalypse. I know that reviews can sometimes go to the extremes-positive or negative- but in the case of “What We”, we have an easy contender for one of the best single episodes of the franchises run.

[danaredbeard]

Rick becomes Sasha at the CRM

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Rick: They... They're all dead.  Sasha: Yeah. I know. And it's okay.  R: How can it be okay? How... How can this be okay?  S: 'Cause you did your part, like I did mine, like the others did before us.  R: How?  S: They gave us the strength that we needed to do what we had to do for the others, and the others draw strength from us.  We change each other. We help each other. We make each other better. And it never ends.  R: It feels like it's ending.  S: Little things do end, but it's never the end of everything, because we don't die. It's not about you or me or any one of us. It's about all of us. And I don't think it just evens out. I think it always crosses over toward the good, toward the brave, toward love.  Your family... You're not gonna find them, because they're not lost.  And you are not lost.  What you need to do is wake up.

So many people thought Sasha in Rick’s exit was a fluke. However, I think of the three ghosts Shane “Past”. Hershel ”Present” and Sasha “Future” her presence was the most salient and most mirrors Rick’s exit.

Sasha doesn’t fear death because she was a preview of what was going to happen with Rick. Her last chance for life/love had died with Abraham. Like Rick says later he can’t go through that again finding a way to die while living. Sasha uses her death to try and help the others

Rick finally wakes up

Rick mirrors Sasha in that he was dead but comes alive in order to help others. This time Rick fights to stay alive and is bouyed by those who died (Carl) and those living (Michonne).

Physical and metaphysical suicides

Sasha: We don’t die Michonne: Love doesn’t die

And this is why it is an EPIC LOVE STORY, without love Rick would have become Sasha.

Their stories even mirror their battles and battles to come with Saviors/CRM (same thing super long post coming) . Funny how no one complained that with a super long and tedious build up of the Saviors that it was over so quick with Sasha attacking Negan… Because most people back then had sense enough to realize that the entire organization hadn’t fallen, Just like the entire CRM hasn’t fallen because we were even told that there are secret factions, spies, charts and graphs. The truth of the matter is those who complained was because it did not end the way they wanted with a death or deaths of the main characters … go figure.

Anywho… Sasha’s angst and sorrow was a preview of the emotional turmoil Rick felt in the CRM. I still believe we got the Cliff-note version of what really happened to him and there is more to be revealed.

[danaredbeard]

One of the most beautiful aspects of Richonne that we get to see in TOWL cannot be detached from the fact that this is a BW and a WM. Because Michonne is one of the (arguably THE) most absolutely badass TWD characters. Argue with the wall. And she is STRONG. And not just physically, but also mentally (not to say that she doesn’t lose it at times -they all do at one point or another with the sh*t they see and live through). But the way her character is written she definitely falls into the Strong Black Female TM trope (I never read the comics but from I know, it’s considerably worse there). (And I would argue we as an audience are guilty of it too. Even with Richonners & Michonne fans, I feel like as a whole I’ve seen a lot more discussions and more in depth discussions about the trauma Rick has endured than the one Michonne has…). And Rick is THE lead of the show. He is who the audience and TF has been following since day 1. And while in TOWL for a good chunk of time we see him at his most broken, we also know how ruthless Rick can be (and were waiting for that version to show itself) to protect his loved ones. The man literally bit out someone’s throat. He is not to be f*cked with. And yet, you put Michonne next to him and he absolutely melts. Can’t keep his eyes his hands his mouth his {redacted} off her-crazy about her. Constantly telling her he loves her and giving her these big declarations of love. And gifting things left and right. He is kissing the ground e walks on. And to see this dark skinned woman, this Strong Black Woman TM being this ADORED -so loudly, so unapologetically, so proudly- by *this* man is just breathtaking.

Just another reason richonne is the greatest of all time 🥰🥰🥰

[danaredbeard]

No no no don’t get me started on the later TWD seasons. Everybody knows the show had already taken a dip in quality by that time (nobody was here for all that damn leaning and monologuing… And suffering through 2 seasons of it for it to not even end in a death… I need them to bffr. But the new dip in quality post bridge was lethal.

There were so many things wrong! Obviously it was already a problem before but my god, there were too many damn scenes in the dark. You couldn’t even see half the stuff that was happening. They kept introducing new characters instead of building the ones that were already there! By the end of it you barely knew or cared for most of them?! Like, the head on the spikes thing did not hit. Half the people it was like.. who dis??? And the other half it was like.. ok?! Sure, I’m sorry *for* Carol; losing another child, I’m sorry *for* Ezekiel. But *I*’m not really feeling any type of way about Henri dying. And there was Tara. I’m not saying it endeared Alpha to me but… I was not mourning either 🙃 The way they had everybody treat Lydia (ex-Whisperer) as if the people complaining were not themselves former Saviors or didn’t roll up to the prison with the Governor, Tara. The whole Negan redemption arc, period! And that redemption happening partially through his relationship with Judith! And Lydia too. And having him on some kind of „I would never and did not hurt kids“ bs. Ikyfl. And and and. But the worst offence to me was definitely how everybody was treating Michonne! Catch these hands!!! The way they gave her no grace and leeway after Rick’s death! Having to go through a pregnancy alone! Jocelyn! Meanwhile Maggie did a lot of similar things or even worse but nobody batted an eye. But everybody is mad at Michonne. The f#cking charter. To this day, I will celebrate Tara’s death because of the charter, idc idc. Stealing the charter -write your own if it’s so important???!- because it’s collecting dust in Alexandria just so you could (checks notes) let it collect dust at the Hilltop? And then Michonne isn’t even one of the people signing it??? And don’t even let me get into the torture p0rn that was Scars… And I actually need to stop here because I’m getting heated fr fr 😤

You said it perfectly! Keep on ranting all you want. I'm totally agreeing so far.