doctorkidemonas

[doctorkidemonas]

I tried to actually read what the contract said and felt cheated to realize it's just Lorem Ipsum (a Latin paragraph often used as sample text in graphics). I know it's a minor thing, but that's always one of my favorite things about animation, those little "blink and you miss it" details you have to pause to catch.

Pixar did something similar in the Incredibles, 20 years ago, where there's an office memo visible on Mr. Huph's desk for a few seconds— but those who care to look find it's an *actual* bit of worldbuilding about Huph being a cheapskate and requiring workers to pay for their own stationary and supplies. I know not to expect Pixar level quality from Zagtoon, but it feels like just one more cut corner showing how much they don't care for the details at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole contract between Gabriel and Tomoe that demands that Adrien and Kagami be together wasn't established earlier or it was only established in S5? Because that'd explain why Gabriel and Tomoe are obsessed about Adrigami while Tom and Sabine don't bat an eye to Lukanette.

(Post that spawned this ask)

We're never actually told why Tomoe and Gabriel are obsessed with Adrigami. The best we get are the following two bits of dialogue from Protection:

Dialogue 1

Kagami: Looks like your doubts are finally gone. Adrien: Yes, Kagami. I'm ready. Tomoe: (to Gabriel) Made for each other. Just as planned. Gabriel: Perfection calls for perfection. Kagami: (to Adrien) What are you doing? Adrien: (typing on his phone) I'm going to prepare a special picnic, for just the two of us, no friends around, no outside pressure. And I'm inviting Marinette right now. Hopefully she can be herself, (Tomoe and Gabriel gasp in shock in the unexpected turn of events.) and finally open her heart and soul to me, free of her fears.

Dialogue 2

Tomoe: All of our plans are falling apart! You were supposed to control your son, Gabriel! Gabriel: And you, your daughter! Tomoe: My daughter's so perfect she doesn't need me to control her! (points her bokken at Gabriel) Gabriel: (pushes away Tomoe's bokken with his finger) Well, it appears she does. Tomoe: It's not my child who's falling for someone completely wrong for her! Gabriel: But she seems to be the one encouraging him!

As you can see, these don't mention a contract. They just imply that Gabriel and Tomoe want Adrigami to be a thing because... reasons?

The contract thing you're referring to comes from the season three episode Animaestro which briefly showed Gabriel and Tomoe signing a contract:

[Image description: a contract with Gabriel's signature and Tomoe's stamp of approval]

As of season six, we still don't know what exactly this contract was about. We just know that it exists and even that is only true if you remember this brief moment from Animaestro. It's totally fair if you forgot about this five-second scene because I don't think that the contract was ever discussed in a later episode. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about that!)

The writers have claimed that this contract scene was here to hint at Gabriel and Tomoe having some sort of master plan, but that's incredibly lackluster writing. A scene of two business people signing a contract is not foreshadowing mutual villainy because signing a contract is not weird behavior. It obviously is here to mean something since the writers chose to include it, but nothing about this scene screams "villainy!" At least, it doesn't on Tomoe's side. Gabriel's a known villain so anything he does may be villainous.

Business contracts happen all the time, this contract was signed in an incredibly public setting, and we later see Gabriel using Tsurugi tech in his house, a thing that's introduced long before Tomoe is revealed to be evil! Because of Animaestro's spot in the timeline and because the contract is signed so publicly, it's perfectly logical to see this brief contract moment and read it as the writers setting up Gabriel having the Tsurugi robots in later episodes. You could also see this and assume it's setting up for Tomoe to be akumatized later the way Audrey Bourgeois was purposely set up for all of her akumatizations.

This contract being about the mansion's robots thing is still the only solution that makes any sense because - as far as we know - the only evil collaborations between Gabriel and Tomoe were the sentikids and the alliance rings. The sentikids obviously happened pre-canon so the contract can't be about that and the alliance plan only existed after Gabriel got the miraculous so the contract clearly wasn't related to that either. It also probably wasn't related to Gabriel and Tomoe being the world's most obsessive Adrigami shippers. The contract was never mentioned during that arc, the arranged-marriage plot didn't show up until season five (two season post contract), and there are some subtle implications that Adrigami may have always been the plan in which case any related contracts would have been signed when these two were kids unless the arranged marriage is a new thing in which case why was this suddenly a thing? What benefit did it give Tomoe? She's already rich and Gabriel was a fashion designer! That's not very useful to a tech guru nor is it an elite skill set she couldn't find without selling out her daughter.

If this contract was supposed to be related to the Adrigagmi stuff, then the writers needed to start the arranged marriage plot in season three or four so that a viewer could logically tie the two events together because there was no reason for Tomoe and Gabriel to delay on the arranged marriage plot once the contract was signed.

That's not what the writers did, though. Gabriel and Tomoe had nothing to do with Adrigami getting together in season three and season four wrote Adrigami like some sort of secret relationship. Lies has Kagami straight up state that she had to lie to be with Adrien which makes no sense if Gabriel and Tomoe wanted this relationship to happen:

Kagami: You know, I lied too. I lied to my mother so that we could see each other. I even lied to her when I said you came here with me tonight. I lied at every fencing lesson so we could spend more time together. You see, we're both a couple of liars. Except I lie because I want to be with you. (points at him accusingly) You lie… because you don't want to be with me.

I was genuinely shocked when season five revealed that Tomoe and Gabriel knew about Adrigami. I thought they were either totally oblivious or actively against it because they clearly did nothing to support it. They didn't even know that their kids broke up!

In other words - like many things in this show - the arranged marriage plot was either a last minute addition or terribly written.

[doctorkidemonas]

Great post! 10/10, loved it, because you're absolutely right. Amor Vincit Omnia, you have to mean that when you say it.

Chat Blanc is so incredibly frustrating to me because it really could've been something special. Black Mirror evil versions of characters, are, by nature, interesting. The Evil Superman is such a popular archetype for a reason. If they'd handled it literally any other way, I might've actually loved it. But no. It's an episode about bad time travel, about the power of love losing, about justifying robbing Adrien from any sort of agency in the fight against his father. Bleh.

If I personally wanted to fix Chat Blanc, I think I might do it like this: In an alternate universe (ala Paris special) Chat and Ladybug are having a fight (implied to be a common thing. Maybe for additional salt, Syren, Kuro Neko, etc take place in this universe instead of being canon) and Chat storms off in a snit. While Adrien is shirking his duty, Hawkmoth fights Ladybug and wins, leaving her comatose with little hope of waking up. Alt!Chat goes mad with grief, breaks his limiter, and is consumed by the power of destruction, turning into Chat Blanc. He manages to defeat his father, but, in the process, accidentally destroys the earrings (He also can't turn back into Adrien, because humans arent meant to bond so closely with kwami). He eventually learns about other worlds, ones where Ladybug is still alive (maybe through Bunnyx failing to meddle?) And becomes obsessed with regaining what's been taken from him. Chat Blanc shows up in the main timeline, trying to claim Ladybug's earrings and wish it all never happened, and, here's the important difference, Chat Noir is *there*. He's *always* there for his partner when she needs him. Ladybug and Chat Noir together prove that their partnership is stronger than all the unchecked power of a god, and manage to talk Blanc down, make him return to normal, send him home. Special ends on a scene of Alt!Adrien visiting Alt!Marinette in a hospital, confessing that he wishes he had been a better partner and that he loves her, wholeheartedly, before she begins to stir.

Miraculous vs The Power of Love

I've written several posts where I talked about Miraculous' poor use of the power of love trope and how that massively turned me off to canon. Three strikes and you're out! When this topic comes up I usually bring up Adrien and only Adrien. This has led to some anger at the fact that I didn't mention love failing anyone else as it absolutely has. I've also seen some anger over my desire for Adrien to defeat Gabriel's control and win the day since Adrien is a victim and that means that it's perfectly fine if he fails to beat his father's control no matter what the consequences of that failure are. After all, the failure isn't really on Adrien. It's on Gabriel. A sentiment I understand, but don't agree with since this is a writing blog. I'm discussing the message the writing is sending not which character gets the in-universe blame.

I'm not going to change how I discuss this topic since it is my honest opinion, but I can explain that opinion in depth to hopefully save us all from miscommunication! That's why I'm making this post! It addresses all of the above. I'll be linking to this whenever the topic comes up so that I can include some nuance without having to go into all of the detail I'm about to go into because - as you'll see - this is a long one which is why I don't go into this depth in other posts. It would just totally derail them. I'm also not going to go into the deconstruction aspect of things here because this is already really long, but I do have a post on that for even more nuance!

If you disagree with any of this, that's totally fine! I just ask that you keep the your counter arguments civil. Remember, we're talking about a badly written kids show that none of us have the power to change and the magical power of love isn't real so it doesn't actually matter if I'm right about this. Nor is Adrien going to thank you for coming to his aid. He doesn't exist and, as always, my issue is not him as a person. My issue is the way the narrative uses him as a storytelling tool.

What Is the Power of Love?

The power of love is a trope where either platonic or romantic love saves the hero from some type of conflict or upsetting situation. It's a rather broad trope that can be used in conflicts of any size, but even TV tropes acknowledges that it's primarily "applied in dire situations to make things better. In fact, in many Disney movies it's the solution to everything." That definition is how I approach the power of love.

To put it more bluntly, unless we're talking about a specific example, when I say "the power of love" I am thinking of a story's climax or, in the case of something like a multi-season show, one of the climaxes. More specifically, I'm thinking of the lyrics to one of my favorite cheesy pop songs:

There comes a time When you face the toughest of fights Searching for a sign Lost in the darkest of nights The wind blows so cold Standing alone Before the battle's begun But deep in your soul The future unfolds As bright as the rays of the sun You've got to believe In the power of love

If it's not the toughest of fights or the darkest of nights, then the power of love failing may disappoint me, but I don't consider it an unforgivable sin. In some cases, I'd even be disappointed if the power of love was brought in before the climax! The power of love is the ultimate cheesy move so it makes sense to save it for the last minute if using it earlier would lessen or even ruin that last minute epic save.

To show what I mean, let's talk about another trope that Miraculous has failed to use well, but that doesn't ruin the show for me. A trope that has led the show to do the exact thing we just discussed: ignore a small moment when love should have won to allow for a bigger win when all hope seems lost.

The Evil Clone Thing

[Image description: the Buzz and Woody meme with the words "Evil Clones. Evil Clones Everywhere"]

There have been an absurd number of episodes where the evil clone/evil twin trope came into play, but the three big ones are Ladybug, Optigami, and the season four final. In each of these episodes, we see a good character replaced by an identical evil version. We also see the good character's love interest fail to recognize that their crush/romantic partner has been replaced. That means that all three of these episodes see the power of romantic love failing. We also don't see a more platonic version of love show up to save the day.

The worst of these episode is the season four final where Marinette doesn't recognize that Felix has taken Adrien's place. That deception is how Gabriel steals the miraculous so it's obviously a pretty big deal and can be argued as a major fail for the power of love. I don't disagree. I think that Marinette's love should have let her see through the lies and dislike that the writers took this route to make her lose. However, I don't have this on my list of moments when the power of love needed to win for the story to work.

While Marinette failing to recognize Felix leads to her darkest hour, it does not happen in her darkest hour. Her darkest hour comes when she actually loses the miraculous which happens in a completely different scene from the one where she's deceived. It's also worth noting that Felix is not present in this moment of loss so there was no opportunity for the power of love to pull off a last minute win.

The loss of the miraculous leads to a scene where Ladybug is sitting alone in the rain, ready to give up all hope. And what happens next?

[Image description: Chat Noir standing in the rain, smiling, holding out his hand to Ladybug]

Chat Noir shows up to reignite Ladybug's will to fight via his love and support. She takes his hand, he draws her into a hug, and they stand together as one, ready to once again face their enemy:

Cat Noir: We're gonna get them back one by one…until the very last. And we'll make sure this never happens again. Ladybug: You...and me? Cat Noir: You, the best superhero there ever was... and me, your loyal partner.

A lot of people love this scene and it led to some major hype for season five which means that it's time to quote some more of that cheesy song that I brought up at the start:

Stand by my side There's nothing to hide Together we'll fight to the end Take hold of my hand And you'll understand What it truly means to be friends You've got to believe (you've got to believe) In the power of love

While I don't love the season four final, it is a B-tier execution of the thing I was talking about earlier. Canon let love fail in a small moment to increase tension and give Ladybug a "darkest night" moment. That darkest night moment then led to a semi-epic power-of-love comeback that understandably got a lot of fans super excited for season five because they assumed that it was going to be the season of Ladynoir. In other words, for a lot of fans, the power of love did its job in the season four final!

All of this is why I don't bring up Marinette when I talk about the power of love failing. It does fail her, but not in her darkest nights and toughest fights. Any time she's overwhelmed and ready to give up all hope, someone comes along to give her the will to fight on. That person is usually Chat Noir because he's her end game love interest so of course the writers use him! His "you and me against the world" moments may not be the most epic example of the power of love winning, but they are the power of love winning, so saying that the power of love fails Marinette feels like an overstatement of harm. She's never had a total loss.

The closest we get to Marinette truly losing is the season five final. That episode feels like an ultimate-level failure to many of us, on par with Ephemeral, but the writers clearly don't agree. For them, season five had a happy ending which makes critiquing that final fight tricky. I'll be arguing that Adrien lost hard in the next section, but I can't say the same for Marinette and this section is about her so let's focus on that for now.

No matter how much I hate the final, I can't look at the picture below this paragraph and argue that love failed Marinette because what did losing cost her? This isn't the season four final where she genuinely suffered. This is her getting everything she's ever wanted! The miraculous are back in her hands, she won the heart of the boy she loves, and no one is actively messing with her love life anymore. That's a pretty solid win even if she didn't win the actual fight.

[Image description: Adrien and Marinette at the end of the season five final, kissing in the spot that used to house Emilie's statue.]

This is further complicated by the fact that - as written - the season five final doesn't put Marinette in a position to use the power of love. She's never given a chance to save Adrien or even just talk to him. She doesn't know that's he's in trouble, locked up in a padded cell, suffering all alone! And Adrien's love can't rally her in her darkest moment when all hope seems lost because - for the first time ever in a season final - she never got one of those! She was a badass in the final fight! No pep talk or supportive teammates necessary! She would have had a total victory if the writers hasn't made her try to talk sense to the villain or sent her Adrien's ring just so Gabriel could make the wish, further adding to the problem of this show's absolutely vile messaging around love.

In other words, lack of love isn't why Marinette loses the final fight. She loses because the writers wanted love to empower Gabriel in his darkest moment, a move the writers have the audacity to call a mutual victory. (Gross. Abusive terrorist should not get power of love moments without a massive redemption arc first. It's yet another insult to the trope. Gabriel did not deserve peace while his son goes on to suffer.)

If you think about the episodes Ladybug and Optigami you'll notice a similar problem. The power of love failed to let Chat Noir and Alya recognize that their romantic interests had been replaced, but that failure didn't lead to their ultimate defeat. It didn't even lead the villains to a minor victory! Both episodes maintain the status quo.

This doesn't mean that I like those episodes. I would rewrite both of them to let love win because they're good examples of small moments where love can win without cheapening or ruining the season's big climax. I just don't view these episodes as times when the show needed to use the power of love if it wanted to honor its chosen genre. That requirement only applies when it's a darkest night or toughest fight.

Before we move on, please note that Ladybug was the power of Adrien's love failing, yet I never mention it when I'm complaining about the power of love failing. That's because I'm never purposefully listing every time Adrien's love failed and ignoring everyone else. I'm simply listing the moments when love needed to let the heroes win because we were in one of the show's darkest hours and that is the only time when I consider the power of love a true requirement. Love can fail in small moments to increase the tension, but if love fails at the moment when all hope seems lost, then why are we even here?

There are only three episodes that get that level of criticism from me and each one had a single character whose writing infuriated me: Adrien.

Adrien vs The Power of Love

There are three episodes where Gabriel's identity is revealed and the final fight goes down. Those episodes are Chat Blanc, Ephemeral, and the season five final. In each of these episodes, Adrien suffers on a scale that no other character has had to suffer:

In Chat Blanc he is akumatized and forced to use his cataclysm to kill both his father and the love of his life, dooming him to spend eternity alone in a dead word.

In Ephemeral he is akumatized and forced to use his powers to hand the love of his life over to his father, thereby allowing Gabriel to win and rewrite reality.

In the season five final, Adrien is left alone in a jail cell, tormented by nightmares while his father dies leaving Adrien an orphan. Adrien is then told some truly colossal lies about what actually happened, leading him to believe that Gabriel scarified himself to save Ladybug's life. Since Chat Noir's usual role in fights is protecting Ladybug, this is arguably the equivalent of Adrien being told that his failure to show up killed his father. I'm not even sure if that's the wrong message because Gabriel did die from a cataclysm and Adrien would understandably blame himself for that, too, so maybe this was a way to address that without going too dark for kids and why does that argument hold water? Wtf was this trash fire of a story line???

When you compare Adrien's treatment in these episodes to something like Marinette's treatment in season four final you can hopefully see why it feels like comparing a broken arm to a mortal blow. It's not that Marinette doesn't suffer. In terms of individual moments of suffering, Marinette beats out every other character! But while she may beat Adrien in breadth, he is the clear winner in terms of depth and the only one who never gets a true power of love moment.

Marinette's darkest nights and toughest fights ultimately work out so that she can go on to some new type of suffering, the old suffering fading away to nothing more than memory. Adrien's darkest nights and toughest fights lead to loss and suffering for which there is no cure other than rewinding time or rewriting reality. The season five final even has Adrien directly state that he's not worthy of Marinette's love:

Adrien: I'm not in my right mind. I'm too angry — at myself for falling short of Marinette's love, at my father for sending me here in London, at this stupid app and these rings that use my image... it makes me sick! This nightmare is giving me the horrible feeling that, if I transform, I'll get akumatized and destroy everything with my Cataclysm — Marinette, Ladybug... (Takes off the ring and hands it to Plagg.) Plagg: Surely Ladybug can help you. Adrien: If I ask her for help, I'd have to give her information that would jeopardize my secret identity... and I can't.

This is literally Adrien's last scene in the main story line. He doesn't show up again until the happily ever after epilogue where he and Marinette kiss. In other words, the show had Adrien directly state that he's unworthy of Marinette's love and then did nothing to counter that statement. I guess this poor unfortunate soul is just lucky that Marinette likes him enough to keep him around in spite of his many failings...

Writers, seriously, what the hell are you doing? This is the kind of dialogue that should lead into a power of love moment! How is thinking about Marinette leading Adrien to despair instead of strength? Why is Plagg just accepting this? Plagg is a magical being who was assigned to watch over Adrien. Shouldn't a character like that help Adrien rally in his darkest night? Where's Adrien's you and me against the world pep talk? That should go both ways!!! Have him break out, call Ladybug to tell her that he's not coming, only for her to rally him so he comes and at least fights outside in the city while she does her solo fight! Don't leave him alone to rot while almost every other character in the freaking show gets to fight!

It would be one thing if Adrien gave up because he was alone and scared, but Plagg is there and the writers directly bring up Marinette and love only to do nothing to show those as positive forces in Adrien's life!!! Instead, Marinette is the thing that keeps him from the fight because Adrien's nightmare is him getting akumatized and killing Marinette even though Adrien knows nothing about Chat Blanc.

[Image description: Adrien's nightmare where he's a blue haired version of Chat Blanc, holding Marinette's body in his arms having killed her with a cataclysm]

To be clear, in each of the three episodes I listed above, Adrien is undeniably a victim suffering at the hands of his main abuser. They're also some of the worst moments of abuse in the entire show. It would be perfectly reasonable for a real life person to give into despair if they were put into this situation, but real life people don't transform into magical cat boys who wield the raw power of Destruction. I was not looking for realism here. I was looking for hope and inspiration!

I wanted to see Adrien win! I wanted his love for Marinette and/or his friends to give him the strength to overpower his father's control because that's what the power of love is all about! When all hope seems lost, it's there to let the hero win because love is stronger than despair, hatred, fear, and magical remote controls! It is the bright light that blasts away the darkness in your darkest night! Unless your name is Adrien Agreste, then no love for you! Suffer, feather boy, suffer!

Example of what I wanted from canon

There are many ways to fix these three episodes so love wins, but to keep this simple let's focus on Chat Blanc and what the power of love winning might look like if we let canon play unchanged up until the moment where Adrien loses control of his powers:

Hawk Moth: Cat Blanc, I'm giving you the infinite power of destruction!! Together, you and I will seize Ladybug's Miraculous and awaken your mother!!! Obey!!! Cat Noir: (tries to fight back but fails) I'm sorry, Ladybug! (He succumbs his akumatization and transforms into Cat Blanc. Ladybug watches in horror at his transformation.) Hawk Moth: Seize her Miraculous, My Son!!! (Cat Blanc lifts his right arm to Ladybug, activating Mega Cataclysm.) Ladybug: No, Adrien! You have to resist!! (Cat Blanc whimpers as he changes his mind and points his arm to Hawk Moth.) Hawk Moth: How dare you!? Not me, Adrien!! Cat Blanc: (whimpering while looking to both of them) I... I don't know what to do!!!!!!

Instead of having the mega cataclysm go off here, we instead see this: Ladybug and Hawk Moth both realize that Chat Blanc is incapable of listening to either of them. Hawk Moth's reaction is to turn and run away, desperate to save himself. Ladybug's reaction is to run to her boyfriend's side, not caring about the danger. She wraps her arms around him, closes her eyes, and tells him that it's okay. That she's here and she loves him and she'll stay here and love him no matter what. It doesn't matter who his father is, it's still him and her against the world now and forever.

The more she talks, the weaker the mega cataclysm grows. By the time she makes her final vow, the mega cataclysm is little more than a flickering glow. A black clad hand touches both of her hair ties, disintegrating them, leaving her hair to fall free around her face since that was a thing in this episode. The minor wardrobe change makes her pull back and look at her boyfriend to see that he's back to Chat Noir, a purified akumas fluttering off in the distance. Chat Noir is crying, clearly distraught, but he's himself again because Marinette's presence allowed him to focus on her love over his father's poison. They won. Love won. Fear and abuse lost.

The couple embraces. Hawk Moth's big gambit failed and they now know his identity so the fight is almost over. Paris will soon be free.

From there you can have an epic battle with the temp holders where the butterfly and the peacock are recovered. Nino gets to punch Gabriel in the face a dozen times or so as a treat and Adrien gets to cuddle up with some treats, sitting the fight out since he's already done his part by surviving the reveal of his father's identity.

You could also have Gabriel just give up because he doesn't have any moves left and the full implications of what he did are smacking him in the face, sapping him of the will to fight. Anything that lets this asshole suffer is fine by me! Emilie's fate is up to you. I like to make her at least semi-decent and revive her to give Adrien a happier ending and Gabriel the horror of divorce papers, but that's just me.

Final Thoughts

As I said at the top, I'm going to continue to complain about the way that Adrien was written in these episodes. I don't consider his victim status a reasonable excuse for the way these episodes played out. If anything, his victim status is an even bigger black mark against the writing!

I come to family-oriented media for hope and happy endings! I want stories about victims being empowered! I want Gabriel's controlling nature to totally backfire on him and not in a mutually-assured-destruction way like we saw in Chat Blanc. I want Gabriel's choice to cost him everything and for him to suffer that loss for the rest of his life while Adrien gets endless love and support, allowing him to survive the reveal and go on to live a happy life. If that's not what you're selling, then I'm not buying thus me giving up on canon after the season five final. There's just no coming back from that kind of colossal writing failure.

I will try to remember to use the word "forced" when describing the problems (as in "forced to kill"), but that's the only thing I can change while still sharing my honest opinion since my main problem with these episodes isn't Gabriel's treatment of Adrien. While I don't like how far these episodes took Gabriel, you don't need to rewrite him to make the episodes work. It doesn't matter how far the writing takes Gabriel, he should never be able to successfully manipulate Adrien while threatening Adrien's supposed True Love.

As soon as Adrien knows that Marinette/Ladybug is in danger, it should be game over for Gabriel because love is supposed to be stronger than all of the awful things that Gabriel has done up to and including the sentimonster crap. In fact, the sentimonster crap just make it even more important for Adrien to win! Gabriel should think he has victory in the bag because he views Adrien as a perfect doll, but love proves Gabriel wrong letting Adrien overpower his amok and win. The trope is called "love conquers all" not "love conquers the mildly inconvenient." The more dire the straits, the more important the win!

Unfortunately, that's not the message Miraculous is sending. By letting Adrien give into his father's control in the show's darkest hours, the message is that Gabriel's control is stronger than love. That Adrien will never be free. That he was Gabriel's perfect doll and you were silly if you ever expected him to be more than that. That's not a message that I'm that ever going to agree with and is yet another reason why I only bring up Adrien + these three episodes when I talk about the power of love failing.

You are never going to convince me that Adrien being allowed to give into despair was a good thing unless you pair that argument with some major changes to canon like love square not being together and/or Adrien not knowing that his actions would endanger Marinette. Even then you need to design that fix in a way that ultimately allows Adrien to win otherwise you are sending a terrible message to the audience. There should never be a scenario where the final battle ends the way canon had it end.

Gabriel is the show's big bad, Adrien is his main victim, and the theme of their relationship has been control. That means that, when it comes to the final fight with Gabriel, Adrien needs to be involved in a way that gives him agency. I'm not saying he needs to fight his father on his own or even at all! I'm okay with him sitting out the fight so long as you pair it with something big like Adrien being the one to learn Gabriel's identity or something more dramatic like my simple Chat Blanc fix.

However, Adrien sitting out only works if it's his own, freely-made choice. As soon as you pair it with something like magic nightmare dust you are once again sending the message that Gabriel's control is the strongest force in Adrien's life. I truly don't understand how anyone can embrace that message and call it good, especially when canon didn't ultimately do something positive with it like letting Adrien become stronger as time went on. He actually got weaker as the show went on!

Chat Blanc saw everyone lose because Adrien was able to at least try to fight back, denying his father total victory. Ephemeral saw none of that fighting spirit and Gabriel just outright won. Season five once again saw Gabriel win only, this time, the show didn't even let Adrien be part of the fight. What an uplifting character arc for Adrien! (That was sarcasm.) Play the episodes in reverse order and you might actually have something if you add a fourth one where he finally wins!

If you want to talk about more minor conflicts where the power of love should have won then I'm happy to do that! Canon has lots of options to pick from! But unless you specify that you want to talk about something minor, these three episodes are going to be my only examples of the power of love failing because they are the only times when love completely failed the character in question. Total loss, no silver lining, writers wtf are you doing?

Listing times when love failed Marinette or Alya in the same list as these three episodes just feels insulting to Adrien unless the context is something like a list ranking the failures from smallest to largest. I'll once again point out that I don't even list the other times when love failed Adrien because my issue isn't Adrien as a person. My issue is Adrien as a tool of the narrative and the asinine message that the Agreste arc sends to the young children this show is aimed at. I wouldn't even be okay with this in a show aimed at adults unless it was clearly marketed as a grimdark take on superheroes. Miraculous should not feel like a kiddiefied version of The Boys and yet here we are.

Why was Adrien granted magical powers and allowed to fight his controlling father for five seasons if Gabriel was just going to die without Adrien getting a decisive victory? Why focus season five on Gabriel controlling Adrien to such an extreme if Adrien was never going to be allowed to break free? Why make Adrien the main love interest and focus the entire show on romantic love if you don't have anything positive to say about romantic love? Why bother getting the love square together before every single final showdown in the freaking show if their relationship status was going to mean nothing? Where is my power of love always so strong?

(Btw, that song I kept quoting is from the original English dub soundtrack to Sailor Moon R - The Promise of the Rose. It plays as love and friendship save the planet Earth from an asteroid. The updated dub replaced the song with the original Japanese soundtrack and the comments are full of people complaining about the change because the song just takes this scene to the next level! I bring this up because Sailor Moon set many people's standards for the magical girl team show genre that Miraculous is clearly taking inspiration from, but failing to fully embrace. If you don't want love and friendship to be on par with nuclear weapons and asteroid attacks, then don't write a show about love and magic aimed at kids.)

[doctorkidemonas]

Not “Only my reading of canon is correct” or “Interpretations are subjective and all valid” but a secret third thing, “More than one interpretation can be valid but there’s a reason your English teacher had you cite quotes and examples in your papers, you have to have a strong argument that your interpretation is actually supported by the text or it is just wrong and I’m fine with telling you it’s wrong, actually.”

[doctorkidemonas]

I'm sorry, how does that not read as Alya becoming the next Ladybug?

Marinette: if anything happens to me, Tikki (Ladybug Kwami) will bring you (Alya) my earrings

Marinette: the new Guardian (Alya) will assign you (Trixx, Fox Kwami) a new holder.

This, to me, is implying Alya for some reason can't continue being the Fox if she becomes Guardian of the Miraculous, and, being in possession of the earrings, will resume her role as Scarabella, since it makes no sense to not use a miraculous at all. Please, elaborate on why you disagree?

Hi, was just going through your blog and saw your response to the following: "the Kwagatama can only call previous holders that belong to the miraculous that the current holder has."

For context, your response:

"Unless season six added new lore, this has ever been stated. As of season five, the lore is that you just need the kwagatama to use it. You don't need the miraculous associated with that kwagatama. At least, that's what was implied in Reunion[.]"

Just wanted to point out, this is definitely untrue. You quoted a part of Reunion, but didn't go far enough. Just check out this exchange:

Marinette: Well, maybe one of your partners will be more chatty. (tries to start a reunion with the Rabbit Miraculous holder on the painting behind her)

Joan: Bother not. You may contact only the memories of those who have carried the same miraculous as yours.

(Apologies if this has already been brought to your attention)

(Ask in question)

While I can see why you'd read the "the same miraculous as yours" line the way you're suggesting, I'm pretty sure "yours" is in reference to the Marinette's Kwagatama, not her miraculous. After all, that scene has Marinette threatening to use the ladybug Kwagatama on a rabbit Kwagatama spot and it would be really weird if the message was that her plan would work so long as she switched miraculous.

The linked ask came in before the The Illustrhater transcript came out so I had to look at Reunion for the lore and assume that the lore was the same in both episodes (admittedly a big assumption when it comes to Miraculous). The Illustrhater transcript is out now so I can confirm that either your read was right, but canon changed the lore or my read up was right and they're keeping the lore unchanged because, as far as I can tell, the plan is not for Alya to be the new ladybug:

Alya: Is that... Tikki: A new Kwagatama! Marinette: If anything ever happens to me, Tikki will bring you my earrings and you will become the new guardian. You'll then be in charge of the team. Alya Césaire, do you agree to officially become my deputy? Thanks to this jewel, you'll have access to my whole memory, from the day Master Fu appointed me Guardian to the day I renounce my title. Trixx: What about me? What will I become without Alya? Marinette: The new Guardian will assign you a new holder. Alya: Don't worry. I'll pick someone awesome.

Alya will use the Kwagatama to access Marinette's memories, but the ladybug will go to a new holder.

[doctorkidemonas]

(In reference to Vesperia) I think the thumb ring is connected to the string of her top; I should check if Ladybug has something similar for her yo-yo. Idk why she's holding it that way, but maybe that's how she throws it? Big maybe, though, since I'm not an expert on trompos. A cursory google search for a tutorial shows they are thrown point up, but the guy was pinching it between his thumb and index finger, not balancing it on the back of his hand.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I URGE YOU TO TALK ABOUT THE SEASON 6 CHARACTER DESIGNS. Mostly cus i wanna hear the salt, but also because as someone who's designed many outfits for these characters over the course of multiple years, you more than anyone have your place to talk

Honestly the episode was just *okay*, so the designs are really the only place I'm particularly heated (I mean I still have my complaints on the episode, but nothing as anger inducing as Season 5):

So I'll start with the heroes:

I'm not mad about cutting off Bunnix because nothing's different.

Viperion - I like what they did with the mask and the deeper color contrast is delicious, but the suit feels like such a downgrade from the old design.

Carapace - I guess this is the Season of the Mask Facial Hair? Viperion is encroaching on this, but Carapace's little chin bit looks like a Soul Patch. Otherwise, it's a good design and I like the additions!

Vesperia - At least it looks like they fixed the weird root issue she had with her bangs from the old model. From what I can see here, I don't dislike this, like, full inversion making the top yellow and the pants black. Dunno what the ring around her thumb is though, and why does she hold her weapon like that??

Rena Rouge - it feels like they made changes to her because they thought they had to? I'm not mad at the differences, just...they sure are there. My only complaint about her is that they colored her tail as if she has two tails but she only has one? Like...just give her two coattails.

At least they ditched the corset U_U

Rooster Bold - The pose makes it hard to see, but he looks pretty cool to me! LOVE the new mask and his bitchy heels. Didn't like the mohawk then, still don't like it now.

Ryuko - this^ picture doesn't show her off, so here's her from the episode:

The suit is still nothing amazing, but I like the scale texture and shoulders, I LOVE the bigger horns, and her hair is fire~!

Miss Hound - yikes on this picture, thank god she cameo'd in the episode:

She's cute! ...Honestly anything was an upgrade, she was just wearing a recolored version of her outfit in Season 4-5, so the fact this is it's own thing is instantly better.

King Monkey - yikes the lighting on this is scary. Anyway, I can't really glean anything from this and the only thing that stands out is the horns on the circlet. I'll pend judgement for now.

Pegasus - Similarly to KM, there's not much I can note here? He's got longer hair so that's...something, but I like that now the visor is a full visor and not a floating pair of glasses. And we'll have to see it in an episode because here I like the contrast between the browns, but the old suit also had that contrast in promo material and then lost it in the episode.

Caprikid - Loooove the fur on the pants for some reason, and I die for the boots little hooves~ Bold choice to go bigger on the horns when there was some controversy about them, but hey. At least they fixed the problem with his white mask.

Minotaurox - aww what a cute widdle hammer. It really looks stunted, a lot of the weapons here look skinnier and weaker actually. I don't think I like the yellow on the horns, but I like that we can actually SEE the details on his suit now. And I like the hoodie/hair.

Argos - yep. That's Argos.

Purple Tigress - Okay, she looks dope AF! No notes, she looks awesome.

Pigella - And on the other hand...yikes. There so much going on here, and in fairness I can't fully understand what I'm looking at. This is not what I meant when I kept adding pig ears to my Pigella design!

Polymouse - Okay, no lie, I DID like her in this still image, but uhhh she's in the episode and um...

Girl no. What's with these LED strips?! WHY is your HAIR going THROUGH you hoodie?! And I know in comparison to the other characters she's still "plus sized" but this still feels...bad.

I won't talk about Ladybug and Chat Noir, they're good. Not exciting not bad just good.

Sooooo the humans.... Mostly I'm bothered by how some are so drastically changed and some are just...not. At all.

Alya - her new Mom lewk. Idk, I just feel like they could've gone harder. She looks fine, I actually like her hair when I watch the animation in motion, it's just...she looks 25 now.

Alix - uh, yep that's Alix. Wait, did her pony tail switch sides...?

Zoe - She's found her 2000s emo girl aesthetic and is clinging to those crusty shoes. I don't like it, her dumb tshirt was really my biggest problem with her old design so of course that's the part hey keep. She just looks...disjointed. I'll hold on judgment of her hair for now.

Kagami - love the hair, hate the crop jacket. It makes her skirt look reeeeeally short.

Sabrina - AH! NO! BAD! WRONG! Hate the hair, hate the pants, I don't even think I like her new glasses. This is a chop, a CHOP!

Juleka - I don't...hate the hair. I just weep for what we lost. I DO hate her new boring-er blouse which is just a weak imitation of her old top. Her hair is so wild so why did her clothes get more boring?

Rose - Season 6 Rose can't hurt you, Season 6 Rose can't hurt you, Season 6 Rose can't hurt you-!!

Mylene - I like her new outfit, it feels like the natural next step for her! I can't get a good look at her new hair though, so I'll reserve judgement.

Nino - Damn, finally a full glow up. Nino looks good! This is probably how I would have designed him the first time around, so, yay!

Felix - you fucking loser, you didn't change here either?! Are SentiBoys just stunted?!

Kim - His big change is...getting sleeves. And his roots are more visible? I guess??

Max - Why this nerd got a smolder all of a sudden? I think he'd look good if they just finally ditched the suspenders, or had them hanging down and not in use.

Nathaniel - Have...have I drawn him in this? I feel like there's a Scarlet Lady version of this. I guess that tells you I like it, right?

Ivan - Hell yeeeeees! GLOW UP! He's like "oh, I gotta wear this nose ring all the time? Better make it ALL WORK TOGETHER!!" I didn't know he had it in him, good job!

Luka - uhhh, is he wearing a different jacket, or is that his old jacket in the new animation style? At least he stopped advertising his own father on his chest. His shirt being tucked in...it disturbs me...

Marc - ...I can't tell if he even got a hair cut because it might just be the new style.

So yeah, I have quibbles but they're overall okay.

If you really want nightmare fuel, you see the kwamis.

[doctorkidemonas]

It was not always ski goggles; It used to be a pair of round black sunglasses (think Morpheus from Matrix)

The Horse Miraculous redesign can’t hurt you…

Was it always a ski goggles? I don’t remember it being ski goggles

[doctorkidemonas]

You know that one meme from Brooklyn 99, "Cool motive, still murder?" That applies a lot more generally— someone can absolutely be tragic and also still in the wrong.

I assume this post is about Chloe Bourgeois? Her home life is atrocious, I don't think anyone's ever denied that, but her classmates, and by extension us, aren't obligated to forgive or excuse Chloe her worst on-screen moments of bullying, and, in the end, outright villainy, because of it. Your pain isn't a one-time-redeemable free pass to hurt others. Were the writing and characterization bad, in the end? Yes, but that's not exclusive to her, and it's unfortunately canon.

…

Do I have to trauma dump for some of u guys to get what I mean when I say that victims still shouldn’t get a free pass to be assholes to unrelated parties?

Do you really want me to go there?

I won’t, but please know you’re an asshole too

[doctorkidemonas]

Probably also gonna be tied to Ivan somehow. Stoneheart + Ox miraculous, and all that

“El Toro de Piedra” why do I feel this is gonna be a catastrophically biased representation of Hispanic people (as in Spain, if they’re planning anything related to Latin America I don’t want to know or see it :/ save yourself the trouble Zag)

Just listen to Torero by Chayanne and let it sweep u away

[doctorkidemonas]

El Toro De Piedra sticks out to me for being Spanish: the Stone Bull.

I know this is more IOTA's thing than yours, but what are you willing to bet this'll be another episode like Kung Food which tries to approach the concept of other cultures and stereotypes but does so in the most heavy-handed and unintentionally insensitive way possible? Especially considering one of the first things people connect to Spain is matadors and bullfighting?

Season 6 reveals apparently

Bruh wtf is this there’s a repeat from prev season and also no cohesion between the titles

… I do kinda wanna see vampire kagami but I also know she’s gonna get a brand new personality with it and get done dirty from every angle

[doctorkidemonas]

There are generally considered to be five ages of comic books: Gold, Silver, Bronze, Dark, Modern. Silver age would be mid-fifties to early 70s, generally characterized by pure episodic goofball cheese, as opposed to the strong narratives that would emerge in bronze-age comics and the stories born out of WW2 and old pulp fiction that defined the golden age. It's the inspiration for things like the Super-Friends and Adam West Batman. Silver-age comics also loved to have their fun with concepts we would consider crude, like this gem

If you ever want to know more, older Justice League of America books, plis the original run of Fantastic Four and Amazing Spider-Man pretty much have it all.

There's definitely some similarity to be found with MLB, especially in season 1, but I'd say there's a lot of later Bronze and Dark Age conventions creeping in, especially with concepts like Senti-Adrien or episodes like Chat Blanc.

Sorry for lecturing, you activated my special interest. Comic books are awesome.

Are you familiar with the Silver Age of Comics? I think one can draw strong parallels to Miraculous Ladybug and the Superman Stories of the Silver Age.

The only comic I’m familiar with is Homestuck but even then the memories are fleeting away like sand between my fingers

That and Naruto and some manhwas

[doctorkidemonas]

Reblogs appreciated for reach—I’m just genuinely curious! Would love elaboration in the tags but obviously you can just keep your answer anonymous if you want as well

[doctorkidemonas]

I'd like to tie this to a larger problem in miraculous: it's hastily slapped together moral of "rich people = bad" doesn't work when it so obviously glorifies wealth and fame. Even though Emilie abandoned her old money family, and this is supposed to be a noble and virtuous thing to do, she married right back into new money. So... what did she sacrifice, exactly?

Also, the Senti Adrien plot is... yikes. You couldn't just adopt a kid like a normal person, you had to search for magic jewelry to make a perfect slave baby at the cost of your own life? I can't be the only person who finds that sentence problematic.

Funny how Canon try hard to make Emilie as "most saint, selfless and generous" woman just because she marry "ol'poor and generic Gabi Grassete" as she willingly denounce her wealth and little.... Yet she still befriended with freaking Bourgeois' and we never see if she ever befriended with another "poor and generic people" to show of saint she was 🙄

Said what ever about Pink Diamond/Rose Quartz... At least her abandon her old royalty live and become leader of "crystal gems" still ties with story, and she never painted as "saint" because she still has a flaw. Meanwhile ML try hard to make us believe that Emilie is the best and generous woman in the world while we never see what exactly she does

The problem with Emilie is there's so little we are actually shown of her. I don't just mean characters mourning her and idealizing her cause we don't speak ill of the dead and all that... there's barely any flashbacks that feel objective and not told from the rose tinted views of someone who loved her. There's a lot of telling with her, telling us she is good and pure and all that but if you take a closer look at what she has done or left behind, you start seeing cracks in the image they are trying to paint.

Felix's play for example, its really laying it thick on what a kind princess she is, how unjedgemental she is for loving ol poor and humble Gabi Grassette before he became the almighty Gabriel Agreste. But what we see that's being downplayed in the back? She abandoned her younger twin and made her pick up her slack so she can live off her fairy tale romance with this nobody. This is just one example, I'm sure people talked to death already about Adrien's upbringing and the implications when it turned out she has only been dead for a year. It also probably doesn't help the writers are highly sympathetic with Andre at least so being friends with the Bourgeois before they were rich is another thing they think will make Emilie seem down to earth.

I think this is a case where the writers did not think the implications through, too wrapped up in the shiny surface. Invoking tropes without deepdiving into it because that is not what's important to them.

So unlike Rose, who feels more human cause all her actions had consequences and people aren't blindly loving her just cause she is dead. She haunts the narrative with everything she failed to fix in her lifetime, her mistakes catching up to her son she never intended to make suffer in her place. She feels like a character in her own right, as I can take a guess at how she might feel with anything going on and understand why things are the way they are with her.

With Emilie, I can only guess at the intent of the writers. I doubt they intended her to be more than Gabriel's sympathy-inducing motive. She is not Adrien's mother, Nathalie's friend or a character of her own right the way Rose is. She is a motive.

[doctorkidemonas]

100% this. Gabriel's win condition, made clear since Origins, was to take the Ladybug Earrings and the Black Cat Ring in order to combine their power and make a wish. Marinette and Adrien's win condition was to prevent this from happening and reclaim the butterfly/any other missing miraculous.

Gabriel made the wish. That means he won. Marinette still doesn't have the butterfly after five seasons and didn't keep the miraculous away from Gabriel. That constitutes a failure.

The way the writers' commentary shows that they know jack shit about what "lose" means...

[doctorkidemonas]

"I really do mean it when I say that this show is bursting with potential. I wouldn't be so enthralled by how bad it is if it didn't have potential to be amazing."

"The true opposite of love isn't hatred, but apathy." You, me, and a lot of others put a lot of care into Miraculous, and what it could be. I still care, to some extent, even if I quit watching the show. I wouldn't be this disappointed if I wasn't at least a little invested. I'll probably still read about season 6, 7, so on, even if I never personally touch them.

Ah, well, we'll always have fanfiction, and the movies, if they decide to continue making those. (which, honestly, I enjoyed the film version. It was flawed, yes, but willing to tread new ground, and the way the plot went made me think ZAG was willing to actually listen to the audience, for once.)

So you've talked a few times about how Plagg and Tikki failed on a fundamental level as mentors, and how Fu wasn't even really a mentor at all, but I don't think I've seen you bring up Su-Han as of yet, and I'm curious to know where you fall on that particular character.

I personally feel he could've been useful for expository purposes, and/or served as a catalyst for Marinette's growth into the role of guardian/team leader (you know, if the show were interested in character growth, or suggesting it's protagonist isn't omni-capable), but instead he showed up in four episodes, caused several problems, raised more questions than he ultimately answered, and honestly makes me question why he was included in the first place.

The order of the guardians is back after 170+ years and the most lasting impact this has on the story is... they teach Jagged Stone Kung Fu? Were you on the writing team, how would you make effective use of this plot point (Or was it a bad idea to begin with?)

Su-Han is an incredibly weird character. I'm honestly not totally sure why he exists, but I'll give you my best guess and then we'll talk about how he could have been used because I do think that he had potential.

It feels like they only introduced the guardian temple back in season three because they wanted to explain how the peacock and butterfly got lost - even though their explanation just raises even more questions if you know anything about archology - then they realized, "Oh shit, we probably need to address the guardian's return somehow, don't we?"

But if they let a whole mystic order descend on Paris, then we don't really need our two heroes, so instead we get one rando who walked (or I guess jumped?) from Tibet to Paris in order to be the writer's whipping boy because that's really how Su-Han is used. He's not here to help or to be a mentor. He's here to voice audience complaints so that the writers can shut those complaints down with nonsense logic.

For example, this exchange from Ephemeral is what kicks off Marinette's awkward and concerning plan to lie to her partner about an identity reveal:

Su-Han: This really takes the cake! Ladybug: Grand Master Su-Han? Su-Han: Nine! You used nine Miraculous to defeat a single villain, when Cat Noir could have just used his Cataclysm! Ladybug: I had to. Cat Noir was missing! Su-Han: What do you mean "missing"? You can't just let the holder of the one of the most powerful Miraculous go about as he pleases! What if he started making his own decisions, or act it out? Like Shadow Moth?! Ladybug: Cat Noir? Act like Shadow Moth? Wow. Are you blowing this out of proportion just a little? Su-Han: Not at all. In fact, you should find out who Cat Noir really is, so you can have better control over him. Ladybug: What?? No way! We can't know our true identities! It would be too dangerous if Shadow Moth got a hold of one of us! Su-Han: I. Don't. Care!! Deal with this problem quickly, otherwise I will take back his Miraculous as soon as he shows a whisker! And I'll choose the new Cat Noir myself! Ladybug: Okay, okay, alright. What if you knew who he was, would that work? Su-Han: I... I suppose so. But I'm warning you, if you don't succeed— Ladybug: I get it. Cat Noir will be replaced.

Does Su-Han read like an Adrien salter to you? Because he does to me! He's presenting a valid argument in the most obnoxious and inflammatory way possible by making it about controlling Chat Noir instead of having the argument focus on the issue of, "Hey, maybe more than one person should know who has this extremely powerful miraculous just in case something bad happens to that one person?" An argument that holds more weight than he could possibly know because of the whole senti issue making Chat Noir a potential perfect sleeper agent.

And at the end of the episode, we get this exchange even though none of Su-Han's concerns have actually been addressed:

Su-Han: So, do you know who Cat Noir is yet? Ladybug: No. Su-Han: What? I thought I had warned you— Ladybug: I don't want to know. I've proven to you a hundred times that I'm a good guardian, and Cat Noir and I have proven to you a hundred times that we were exceptional superheroes, and you! How many times have you told us that we were messing up, when that was totally untrue? You're judging us based on your own fears, and not on our actions! Su-Han: (groans) You're right, little Ladybug. Perhaps I'm worrying over nothing. What's for sure is that one doesn't come across a guardian like you every century. (reaches out his fist) How do you say again? Ladybug and Su-Han: Pound it.

You can tell that the writers wanted Su-Han to be the bad guy here. That his pushing for an identity reveal was at fault and you - the audience - should feel bad if you ever agreed with him, but his base argument is never actually addressed. Marinette just says he needs to trust her and so he does for some reason? Remind me, which of these two is supposed to have years of experience and which of them has been a hero for less than a year and in that time has totally failed to even try to retrieve the miraculous that she's supposed to be recovering? Writers, please stop saying that Marinette is the best guardian ever when you don't let her do anything that feels all that special. I'm not saying that she's terrible, she's doing what was asked if her, I'm just concerned that this is considered way above average quality.

On top of that nonsense, there's also the problem that Marinette's counter argument would have worked right from the start, so her rushed deception plan doesn't feel like a true act of desperation like it was clearly supposed to be. Instead, it just makes her look like a horrible person even though that obviously wasn't the writer's intent. This is what always happens when they speed run these complex what-if or backstory episodes. It never works out like they clearly want it to.

Chat Blanc did it by making Adrien look bad for hiding his identity so that he could date Ladybug. Derision did it by making multiple characters look unhinged and/or evil. Ephemeral does it with the frankly baffling lie plan which is only there so we can have a proper identity reveal moment between the leads. That's literally why the episode is written like that, btw. They wanted to let Adrien confess his identity in a big romantic moment, so they forced a scenario where that would happen even though it makes Ladybug look terrible.

Anyway, back to Su-Han.

If Miraculous was allowed to have serious plot lines that spanned multiple episodes, then Su-Han could have been a great edition to the cast. Season four is a pretty big tonal shift for the show. Things start to feel a lot more serious in this season with the Ladynoir conflict and Marinette struggling to be the guardian. It also comes right after the season where we learned that Master Fu wasn't a true guardian. All of this is the perfect setup for a true mentor character who shows up to fix things and maybe even give out some new powers!

Imagine how much better this season would have been if it was about Su-Han helping Ladynoir! If he saw the conflict and stepped in to guide them through it. You could even have him be closer to Adrien than Marinette to balance Marinette and Fu's relationship.

For example, what if the guardians didn't have the wacky staff that tracks down miracle boxes but not miraculous because then Gabriel would be defeated too easily? What if Su-Han just shows up and Marinette doesn't trust him, but Adrien does? And so Su-Han helps Adrien the most while Marinette keeps Su-Han at arms length just like she does Adrien because that's what Fu taught her to do and Fu was wrong about everything! This could still lead to the season four ending, but instead of it being a nothing burger where season five continues all of the same problems, instead season five is where Marinette embraces Su-Han and really starts to understand what it means to be a guardian and a partner? Things Fu never taught her because he kind of sucked at his job.

That's just one way to make Su-Han work. A way that keeps canon intact up to the start of season five because, while I hate season four's writing and "conflict" resolution, I can admit that there was potential in the base idea. You could also scrap all of season four and rewrite everything to keep things more light hearted while still letting Su-Han be a total upgrade.

You could even go the exact opposite direction and set Su-Han up to be the next big bad! Why have sentimonster freedom be a conflict (even though it really wasn't) when you could make everything about Kwami freedom? It's a really natural progression to go from defeating Gabriel to fighting for... institutional changes(?) in how the miraculous work. Let Kwamis pick their holders and remove their bonds so that Gabriel never happen again!

I really do mean it when I say that this show is bursting with potential. I wouldn't be so enthralled by how bad it is if it didn't have potential to be amazing.

[doctorkidemonas]

Thanks for answering, I appreciate it. I think I maybe waffled a bit too much to get my point across though. In superhero stories, there's a common genre convention that villains should be proactive, driving the plot forward, while heroes are reactive. Miraculous seems to take this concept and run with it to ridiculous extremes. Even in other formula series (Power Rangers is probably a good example, as one of the archetypal monster of the week shows), there will often be a few episodes where the heroes unlock some new ability, or grow stronger, attain new allies. Miraculous, on the other hand, didn't let Marinette or Adrien do anything, achieve anything, over the course of five seasons. They didn't even discover Gabriel's identity on their own merits, Felix had to tell Marinette, and she wasn't allowed to win that final battle. Do you think there's a deeper reason behind this lack of agency, or just crappy writing decisions and dogmatic adherence to status quo?

Disclaimer in advance: I haven't watched season 4 or 5 in their entirety, nor do I intend to, so maybe I'm missing info. Most of my knowledge comes from lurking in the fandom.

Why do you think the show was seemingly allergic to allowing their main characters to make any sort of meaningful progress? At the end of season 1, Ladybug comes into possession of the Miraculous grimoire, a major clue that "Hey, Hawkmoth is probably Gabriel Agreste" and then the Collector immediately ends with her and Adrien placing him completely above suspicion (I actually don't mind this, it makes sense for Gabe to throw the two off the trail, but to the best of my knowledge, this is the only time the protagonists make any headway toward Hawk Moth's identity. I wish they had done more active investigation.)

The power up potions show up during Syren, except... they don't do much in the way of a "power up." They're used exceedingly sparingly, and really only let LB and CN compensate for environmental challenge. Nothing else, no actual evolution. This could've been a way to show LB getting more in sync with her powers, being able to create specific solutions to her problems. You could've had similar moments for Chat Noir, upgrade like the ranged cataclysm Chat Blanc could use, or something to do with bad luck. Instead, it was a cheap gimmick.

The temp heroes start getting called in beginning with Sapotis, except that most of them are called in because... you're here and I need this incredibly specific power, which you just so happen to be perfectly suited for. Shut up and do nothing follow orders. (The episode Party Crasher and King Monkey being the most egregious example, imo. Then again, i havent watched Penalteam, and I'm told that episode is far worse). The temp heroes don't really add anything to the plot (Save Rena suddenly being Ladybug's confidant, but that's a rant for another day.), except to cause conflict with CN, and they're all gone as of the Season 4 finale anyway.

Speaking of season 4, the charms. Finally, concrete progress, a way to limit hawkmoth, to cut him off from potential vic— wait what the hell is a megakuma? Why do this? What was the point? This is what I was talking about with Syren, Ladybug coming further into her powers, finally being able to start pushing Gabriel into a corner, and it's undone that same season. Apparently transmission is more powerful than creation, despite repeated assurances the Ladybug (and Marinette) are special.

And then there's the alliance rings. Why can Tomoe and Gabriel make these? No idea. What it means, though, is that LB and CN have no chance of reclaiming the lost miraculous, and just have to passively react to whatever the hell Monarch is up to... again.

I'm told that for the big finale, Marinette wasn't even the one to discover Gabriel's identity, Felix straight up told her, and then Gabriel won. He made his wish. The hero of the story failed to save the day, after doing practically nothing.

Whats extra annoying is that on the Villain side, Gabriel is absolutely allowed to push the status quo. First we get Scarlet Moth and mass akumatization, then the peacock comes out, then it gets fixed, and then Gabriel straight up steals all the Miraculous (save LB and CN's of course, and then they steal the rabbit back because the writers realized "time travelling villain" was a horrendous idea. And Felix is allowed to keep the Peacock, because ??? Gabriel has to my knowledge not given up any other power, before or since). And he's always held the power, he's never been at risk of losing his own miraculous because he doesn't need to go out in person, so why does he keep getting stronger and raising the stakes while the heroes can't do anything.

Sorry for being so long-winded, just... needed to get my thoughts out.

Put on your tinfoil hats, folks! We're gonna make some educated guesses as to what is going behind the scenes with Miraculous, but remember that these are, ultimately, guesses. I don't know the full story and I probably never well.

I've mentioned before that writing for TV can suck because you're not allowed pure creative freedom. There are a lot of hands in the pot limiting what you can do because TV shows cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to make. Some even cost millions. That means that final product needs to be considered commercially viable unless you're independently wealthy and have money to burn. This doesn't mean that passion projects can't be commercially viable, it just means that they're generally not approached with the idea that commercial viability is the most important thing.

Writing for children's shows can especially suck because you're heavily limited by the intended audience and by what large corporations deem acceptable for that intended audience. If you're not totally on board with keeping things Disney's version of kid-friendly, then you're not going to have a fun time.

This brings us to Miraculous.

I have often assumed that there were some wacky hi-jinks going on behind the scenes that would explain why the show is such a mess because I don't think that Miraculous is anyone's ideal version of the core concept. The wonderful @nixthelapin recently confirmed it for me by sending me a link to a translation of a lecture given by Miraculous' writing director.

In that interview, we get hard confirmation that the core members of the writing staff originally wanted to tell a darker story for adults or teens, which may explain all the random dark stuff that the show will include but totally fail to explore. We also got this:

Sebastien sold the Miraculous series to broadcasters as a formula show. A person gets angry, is akumatized, then marinette transforms into Ladybug then frees the person from the akumatization and… The End. It's also for this reason that Marinette tries to confess her love for Adrien in every episode, but is unable to do so. But he tried to go against what he had planned with TF1, by slipping little extra stories into certain episodes. Audiences were receptive to these slightly hidden stories. The TV channel even asked Sébastien if there really were hidden things in the series, but he denied everything.

So there you go. There's the hard confirmation of my theory. Miraculous was sold as a formula show so it's mostly written like a formula show, but the writers want to do more than a formula show, so they're adding in all these hints of something more, leading to massive fan frustration when those things don't lead to satisfying plots because, if they did, then it wouldn't be a formula show!

I get the temptation to do what they did, I really do, but I don't think that it was a good move. They would have been better off trying to make an awesome formula show or by being a lot more selective in what greater story elements they wanted to include. There are things that you can develop in formula shows while still keeping them formula shows. One thing that comes to mind is subtle character development. For example, they could have set up all of the temp heroes by giving them strong roles in one-off episodes. Roles that established their heroic potential. What you can't do well in formula shows is complex character development like the mess that was everything with Chloe and Lila.

This may also explain why we get baffling statements like this one from that interview that the writers gave at the end of season five:

Mélanie says that he "could become Chat Blanc" and the others add that even though he does not remember and has never lived it, Chat Blanc still has an influence on his actions.

Are they trying to let Chat Blanc effect the plot without breaking the formula element? If so, then dear gods, this is not how you add subtle continuity to your formula show!!! But that may be what they were trying to do here and in many other places. After all, we also get gems like this:

They note that Marinette's nightmare at the beginning is reminiscent of the episode Weredad from season 3. At this point, we can see that Marinette starts to understand who the villain is although she's not fully conscious of it yet. Thomas says that you can read it in two different ways: if you don't take the previous episode into account, she's starting to intuitively link things together but if you did see Representation, you know that she knows who Monarch really is.

I'm seeing a common thread. What about you?

While the writing director interview doesn't say this, I'm assuming stuff like the charms, the powerups, and the additional heroes come from a similar type of issue. My best guess is that these weren't elements that the writers wanted to add. They were things that marketing made them add to sell toys and so the writers shoehorned these items in because they couldn't find a way to organically fit these elements. I'm not blaming either side for that issue, btw. There isn't really a clear right side in the fight of creative freedom vs a show needing to make money to keep being made.

Since we're talking about that interview, I'll point out that we also got confirmation of another wacky writing rule to add to the list of poor writing choices:

The driving force behind the series is that there must always be a secret between Marinette and Adrien. The lovesquare can never be broken, otherwise there's no series.

"Our main couple can never be fully honest with each other or else there's no story" is a pretty awful rule, but it's what they're going with and that's a big part of why the love square is a mess. It's also a rule that I've often assumed was there based on the writing, but it's nice to get official confirmation of it.

None of this is to absolve the writers of blame nor is it to say that everything is their fault. The point here is that Miraculous' problems are a complex mess of everyone trying to make a good final product without being on the same page with what that final product should look like, resulting in a show that will never live up to the full potential of what anyone wanted for it.