elentary - Tumblr blog

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^^^ great post here!

Also, I'm not so sure that Crowley knew what "getting out" from heaven would mean and reserved for him at the exact moment when he rebelled. And, to me it feels more like he was kicked out of heaven than he was taking the stairs (even if the choice to fight heaven was his own).

For what we can piece together from his tales (and from other supernatural beings) Crowley complained a lot about how heaven was managing the whole creation stuff (and about the food) with "Lucifer and the guys". He also confirmed he fought in the war before the fall even if he doesn't remember being in the same legion as Furfur, who is rather displeased about the serpent's lapse of memory (he seemed rather pissed when he recalled the "monkey in a waistcoat").

Crowley insisted that he "didn't really fall" and that he "sauntered vaguely downwards".

He also laments that asking questions was his "requirements" for being made a demon.

However, I don't think that doing a "million year freestyle dive in a pool of boiling sulphur" was what he expected.

To me, it feels like he isn't telling everything (or he doesn't want to share that because it's too painful?).

Due to all those things, I suspect the Fall for Crowley wasn't just a "I didn't like heaven, took the stairs and, ups, I fell down a little". I have the feeling that there was also a "this is Sparta Heaven!!!" moment too (do you remember "300"?), where someone pushed him down (or made the floor disappear under his feet). To me, the fall was a punishment to Crowley because he wasn't following what his abusers wanted him to do.

THE WHOLE POINT IS VICTIMS CAN'T "BREAK THE CYCLE"! That's what being trapped means! The only person who can break "the cycle" is the ab*ser!

Friendly reminder that it's a common ab*se tactic to be inconsistent about "punishing" victims for breaking the "rules", so that they never know where they stand and are constantly terrified and confused. The point is there are really no rules; there's just what the ab*ser says. Aziraphale has broken heaven's rules so many times. He knows he "deserves" to have fallen just as much as Crowley did. They both know the system is inconsistent and makes no sense.

Also Crowley did not "get out". His ab*sers are just as evil as Aziraphale's. They tortured him for forty years. And heaven and hell have been shown to be part of the same system anyway. They're both trapped.

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Ineffable Bureaucracy and Ineffable Husbands

So, especially in the early days after the release of S2, I saw and heard a lot of people comparing these two as if they were the same. There were fan comics and fanart and fanfiction that included dialogue that was something along the lines of "why are they so healthy after only a few years and we aren't?" or "why do THEY get a happy ending and we don't?" And I mean, I haven't seen any of that in a while so maybe people have come to this conclusion on their own, but just in case, I wanted to point out

That they are fundamentally different. They are not the same.

And the reason why comes down to this conversation from 2x3:

So, hold this conversation in your brain while we go through this.

First of all, we have our Ineffable Bureaucracy, Gabriel and Beelzebub.

So these are the ones who, figuratively speaking, were born in a castle.

Gabriel was the Supreme Archangel for however many millenia, and Beelzebub was the Grand Duke of Hell for the same, roughly speaking. They are equals in positions of power.

So, when they fall in love, you have two supernatural authorities who have lived their existences believing that they can reasonably expect to have and keep whatever they want. After all, that's exactly what their lives have been (with the one exception being Beelzebub's Fall) - they want something, they get it, they keep it, and no one tells them no.

The biggest risk is to Gabriel. If Heaven were to find out, he would Fall. I can imagine Beelzebub being a bit concerned, but "Oh no," Gabriel probably figured "I Fall to Hell, and straight into your arms!" And I could see Beelzebub with a little smirk saying "I'd look after you, babe," in response.

The only time Gabriel actually worries is when he finds out that there's another punishment that he didn't realize was a possibility.

Falling to Hell is one thing, but having his memories erased is an actual threat, and possibly the first time he's ever been told no. This is when we see him panic, and leave Heaven in a mess, storing his memories away to keep them safe from the Metatron. We find out later that he was on his way to Hell anyway and just forgot halfway there and got lost.

And so, we have two beings who were always told they were Good Enough, who approached each other knowing they were able to have whatever they wanted, and were therefore able to communicate and fall in love in a healthy way. They didn't need to tip toe or hide, because they had no reason to believe anyone would ever tell them no until someone did. Their risk, because of their positions of authority, wasn't nearly as great as Aziraphale and Crowley's risk.

So now we come to our Precious Ineffable Husbands

Crowley and Aziraphale start off in much lower positions on the Celestial Food Chain. We know that they have to be very careful about their relationship to avoid the repercussions. They can't mention The Arrangement out loud, they can't put their feelings for each other into words. It has been made clear to them that they are always being watched, and anything they have can be taken away from them on a whim.

So how can they communicate safely when they've spent millenia living on eggshells and tightropes? Of course they won't, and of course it's going to be much harder for them to believe they can once they finally are safe. I definitely believe that they will get there (for my own wellbeing I have to believe that their love is stronger than anything), but they will need to fight tooth and nail in a way that Gabriel and Beelzebub didn't. All because they aren't figures of authority.

It might honestly be another good argument for Crowley taking the Grand Duke of Hell job (even though I reeeeaaaally don't want him to). It would put them in the same position as Gabriel and Beelzebub, and might give them the footing to actually escape the system (even though I think it's more likely that they're going to dismantle and/or repair the system in s3, but that's my own opinion).

These two pairs aren't mirrors of each other. Rather, they illustrate the problems with inequity that Crowley was pointing out in Edinburgh. And if S2 showed us that, I'm hoping S3 will show us possible solutions for it.

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occasional posts from users

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so my family went to the tulip fields and my little sister didn’t have a good time at all

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Crowley: What does the "and co." stand for?

Aziraphale: (giving him the biggest heart eyes in the world)

Aziraphale: It's just an "and co." really...

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It's hilarious seeing that they've chosen "the doctor's daughter" and "the fourteen doctor": besides what Michael says, it seems David is still the doctor who 😂

:D <3

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I think that the angel-that-was-Crowley hadn't completely lost what he was with his fall.

Crowley can still be silly.

The demon still cares for the Creation.

He still wants to see what happens next in the universe.

Crowley still complains about bad ideas.

The demon is still upset when someone or something has to die (humans or the cosmos) and works to avoid that (how ironic is that a demon cares more about kids than archangels in heaven?).

However, Crowley has to be really careful how and when he could do those things. Hell would destroy him if they find out how he really is.

I think Aziraphale wishes Crowley to be able to do whatever he likes and loves most.

The angel hopes that Crowley could be amused.

He wants the demon to enjoy himself and have fun while being mischievous.

Or even be "good" (like saving kids or a body snatcher) without any bad consequences, if the demon wishes that.

However, Heaven is not the right place for Crowley: almost nobody would respect him, listen and take him seriously (or -even worse- won't try to harm him).

Heaven is neither a good place for Aziraphale (not the best workplace there and I don't think there are many beings who appreciate him): however he can't just "run away together" because problems (i.e. the second coming) will find him and his beloved.

A nice place could be earth, in my opinion, but there are a lot of things that Crowley and Aziraphale should face beforehand.

I just had a thought (maybe other people had it already, but I didn't see it)

This scene :

At first it's funny, of course, but in fact it's quite heartbreaking.

Why?

Not because Crowley doesn't remember Furfur, no. But because Crowley was silly as an angel.

Do you really see Crowley doind that now? Even smiling like AngelCrowley seems foreign to us. But he was absolutely innocent and playful too.

The fall took all of that from Crowley.

Do you think that it's what Aziraphale heard, too ?

Do you think he see another glimpse of an happier Crowley with this simple sentence?

Do you think that it's what he wanted to give back to Crowley when he asked him to come with him to heaven?

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I'd like to think Aziraphale had chosen to be a "guest" in Madame Tracy's body during his "possession" and let her "take the wheel" when she wanted. He left her "free will" intact.

Aziraphale never got angry at her when she shot in the air and not to the Antichrist even if that could have meant the end of the world as we know it.

And I think both Crowley and Aziraphale didn't jump at the murderous idea at the first occasion: they tried for eleven years to stop the Armageddon without killing the kid (not so sure about Warlock's mental health). Everything from influencing the kid for so many years to stopping the hellhound had failed them. Killing Adam was their last resort and to protect the whole earth (not just for funsies).

Also, I'm not sure every human would have stopped from firing the gun.

I know the question of who was responsible for almost killing Adam is a contentious one around these parts, but I think it bears pointing out that at the end of the day, despite all the arguing back and forth about it Crowley and Aziraphale were both on the same page about going through with it regardless of which of them was holding the gun, and it was the humans who actually prevented it from happening.

Even Shadwell, who has almost zero redeeming qualities throughout this entire story, immediately balked at being told to shoot a child, and then Madame Tracy forcibly prevented Aziraphale from going through with it. They both knew that they were on their way to kill the Antichrist, and Shadwell at least had enough information to have possibly pieced together that it was the child Newt had gone to Tadfield to find—but when push came to shove, Aziraphale and Crowley were prepared to go through with it despite their misgivings and the humans weren't.

I don't know that I'm saying this makes A&C bad, or the humans better (again, Shadwell is overwhelmingly a terrible person apart from this one moment), but it's certainly one of those moments that highlights how different they are. Despite six thousand years of living among humanity, their perspective is still fundamentally non-human.

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I wonder if Aziraphale had been living his last six thousand years with the fear of harming Crowley with his power (angelic Vs demonic)

(gif from here by alivedean)

It could also think he can avoid any snatching from hell (or maybe even somebody in heaven) like it happened in Edinburgh.

I think the "partnership" Metatron was speaking about was the arrangement, not the switch.

At the moment, however, we can just speculate.

Another Good Omens Thought

We know Aziraphale knows about the hellfire. We know Crowley reveals to Gabriel Jim about the swap like some James Bond villain. We know Aziraphale knows that the Metatron has been listening in.

Which means...

Special thanks to @ineffablebookgirl's post this out and everyone in the comments and reblogs.

We now know that the Metatron knows about the body swap... Whoops!

What don't we know? If Crowley told Aziraphale about the conversation with Jim. So we don't know if Az knows that the Metatron knows.

I would assume Az knows though, because again, Crowley has told Az about what happened, so clearly that's something the Metatron overheard.

Which makes me think... Az pieced together that the Metatron has been listening in, which means the Metatron probably heard their body swap conversation, which means that the Metatron knows Crowley can still be destroyed by holy water.

Did Az offer Crowley to appoint him as an angel in hopes that it would make Crowley immune from being destroyed by holy water? Or was it just to make sure Crowley can always be by Az's side to personally make sure no one hurts Crowley? (This is assuming that the Metatron really did offer to change Crowley to Az as some veiled olive branch, and Az took it but twisted it into a loophole to help keep Crowley safe.)

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In one of my first historical fic (which was set in Siena) I spent at least a day researching about male fashion in the XVI century (layers and styles) and, when I was starting to write the story I remembered one of Bernadette Banner's videos where she (or one of her friends) mentioned that in Italy were wearing different clothes than the rest of the Europe.

Well, I had to start my research again. 🤣😂🤣

(To be fair, I'd love to see Crowley in one of those clothes).

When reading or writing historical gomens fics research is good but also i love ‘lead balloon logic’ i mean you can make them say anything because from the moment crowley said ‘that went down like a lead balloon’ in the garden of eden all bets were off you can just have fun with them if the joke or the line works for the scene and that’s amazing

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In my opinion, Crowley and Aziraphale wanted to stop the hellhound so they were both undercover: that's why they switched their colours.

There is something about Crowley in this outfit. Neither heaven nor hell. Neither good nor evil. A balance of the two. And trying to stop the apocalypse.

And Aziraphale in black… maybe a clue that he’s not yet fully on his own side, but fighting against heaven in his own way. Still with touches of white and gold.

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Aziraphale knew about the hellfire.

However I believe Crowley just told him that they put him into a pillar of hellfire and nothing more: I doubt the demon told the angel how unpleasant the archangels were (especially Gabriel).

I can't see him revealing that after he had seen how giggly Aziraphale was for his stunt:

"I've asked for a rubber duck... ...I made the Archangel Michael miracle me a towel"

Do you believe Crowley would ruin Aziraphale's happy moment with his failed execution?

I think Crowley just kept that for himself because there was no reason (in his mind) heaven would pester them so soon (4-5 years are "soon" for someone living over 6000 years imho).

Also, Aziraphale-as-Crowley had a (mock) trial in hell and there demons let him striptease remove his jacket (and almost all his clothes) as he asked. I think the angel though was the same in heaven.

Crowley didn't tell Aziraphale about the hellfire execution

Except that he did.

I've seen several people say that Crowley never told Aziraphale about the hellfire and his experience in Heaven pretending to be the angel.

But when Gabriel first shows up and Crowley wants to dump him somewhere, he says, "That is your former boss who tried very hard to cast you into hellfire and destroy you."

And Aziraphale shows no surprise. He knew about that. Crowley did tell him at some point. Exactly what details Aziraphale got, it's hard to know for sure, but he knew the gist.

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realise that someone likely spotted this back in 2019 and that's quite literally the genesis of the 'crowley slows down for aziraphale when driving' hc but i will never be over him literally going from 90mph in central london, to slow as ass on the motorway

like, a mf lorry/coach passes them in the middle lane?? my guy isn't even doing the speed limit, he's possibly doing like 57mph? max. and it tracks - going too slow on the motorway is sometimes just as dangerous as going too fast, so like... anything that allows crowley to be as big a nuisance to society as possible <3

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I realized that some of recovering from depression is changing your perspective on things. So I made my very first two-sided embroidery!

(etsy)