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everymanplural · 2 days ago

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Does Saeran have DID?

TLDR: No, but he has a similar condition called OSDD2

Saeran's personality has been widely discussed, his duality, characteristics and behavior have quite possibly made him the most loved boy by the fandom. However, little has been detailed about his condition, leaving many questions and confusions that I would like to try to clear up in this very long post.

I hope you can sit, drink a warm coffee (or Dr Pepper if it's summer!) and enjoy this analysis, based on the most accepted psychiatric diagnosis manuals, my own knowledge and also experience.

As always, any constructive criticism or talk is welcomed :)

So.. ☆ let's get started ☆

What is DID?

Dissociative disorders are a group of conditions characterized by experiencing a disruption in the person's perception of self. It can also cause a discontinuity in the integration of consciousness, memory, perception and/or behavior.

This can translate into memory loss of important events, or daily life (dissociative amnesia). A sense of not knowing "who i am", or feeling like "i'm someone else" (disruption of identity), seeing the world as "i'm watching a movie" or "inside a dream" (depersonalization / derealization)... All those symptoms are consequences of the same basis: Dissociation.

In Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) dissociation will be experienced in two major alterations: the presence of two or more different personality states and episodes of dissociative amnesia.

Personality is a characteristic of every person, it's the set of traits and qualities that makes us who we are. In people with DID, personality fails to integrate, keeping parts of it fragmented into different identities.

These identities or alters, can be different from each other, harboring separated memories, tastes, behaviors and sensations.

And generally, there are one or more alters that have often the control of the body, we know them as "hosts".

When there's an host switch, the identity that takes control usually doesn't has access to the memories that the previous host had, causing the dissociative amnesia episodes.

Structural dissociation theory

In short words, structural dissociation theory proposes that DID, and some other dissociative-related disorders, is caused by severe trauma during early childhood, when identity isn't fully formed yet.

This theory suggests that children are not born with a unified sense of self, but it takes form from multiple experiences. And, in children overwhelmed by traumatic circumstances, many parts of identity that should have been integrated remain separated.

Complex trauma will cause the child to focus on survival instead integration, keeping their perceptions, memories and experiences dissociated as a protective mechanism.

It is implied that the severity of dissociation may be related to the complexity of the trauma and the age it was experienced.

Saeran's Story

To define if Saeran has any condition or not, and based on what we already reviewed about DID, it is important to summarize Saeran's important life events, the ones that made him who he is.

Both twins were born and raised in a context of severe abuse and trauma, making possible, based on what we discussed about structural dissociation, that Saeran may have dissociated parts of himself from an early age. However, this is not suggested ingame.

It is known that Saeran and Saeyoung lived together till their early teen years, when Saeyoung left to work at the agency, around their 15 years old. But until then, Saeran kept a structured and consistent personality, that Saeyoung described as "kind and tender".

So, with the information provided by Cheritz so far, we can safely conclude that, even if Saeran has evident risk factors to it, he didn't dissociate at early childhood, but later.

And the moment of his first dissociation is explicitly shown ingame: once kidnapped by Mint Eye, tortured by Rika and "cleansed" with the drug they call Elixir.

After prolonged torture focused on making him deny his beliefs, Saeran finally gives in to Rika's manipulation, providing her what she wanted: a different Saeran.

His first identity, differentiated from the Saeran we have met till now, is a "nameless one", who uses the same name, but at the same time behaves completely differently: Unknown, also known as Suit Saeran (but I have decided to call him AS Unknown, for reasons I will explain later)

At the same time, Ray is born as everything that "Unknown is not", merging all the characteristics, fears and feelings that Unknown is not allowed to experience, everything that is qualified as "unworthy", but also as "nice".

Both Unknown and Ray behave, act, think and feel differently. And even if they share some similarities, each has a full sense of identity, almost antagonizing each other.

They're both conscious of each other, and can share some partial inner communication. Even if the other one is fronting, or in control, the "dormant" identity will still know what's happening.

So, after being forced to dissociate, Saeran's identity is mainly split in two: Ray and Unknown, but it is not possible for them to determine who's gonna be in control. They can't switch as they please or because the situation requires one of them to be present, Ray will stay as the main host till a trigger happens: the same one that created them. The elixir.

This dynamic stays similar since the beginning of Magenta till it's fall. In AS, this happens after 6 months; in OS after 1 year and a half. (conclusion obtained considering Rika's death date as the funding date of Magenta, and its fall the time it has passed since then, suggested in both prologues)

In OS, after a more prolonged exposition to the elixir, and more time to settle in, we get to know a more mature version of Unknown, the one most people are used to see; staying as the main host.

And, depending on the route, we'll meet a third identity, one formed after therapy the power of love.

Whether by romantic or filial love, we will meet Saeran again, this time more stable and "complete", inheriting aspects from both Ray and Unknown.

In SE we'll see a more Unknown-ish Saeran, while in AS, a more Ray-ish Saeran. But in both cases, the process is the same: trying to be one again.

Is this Saeran the same Saeran he was as a child, before dissociation? Is he the result of integration? or maybe a third identity? It is not really clear, but we know that both Unknown and Ray are not completely gone, they still persist in his inner world. Which means that certain dissociative elements are still there.

By this reason, and for Cheritz's provided information, i believe that GE/SE Saeran is most likely a bridge for integration, the result of him accepting both of once split parts of himself: an still healing Saeran Choi.

This coincides with the 3 identities officially recognized by Cheritz.

Being that said, all other "versions" of Saeran met in the diverging routes and endings, would be one of those three under different scenarios.

So... let's go to the main question:

Does Saeran have DID?

Let's compare DID diagnosis criteria with what we have seen about Saeran:

A. Disruption of identity characterized by two or more distinct personality states. B. Recurrent gaps in the recall of everyday events, important personal information, and/or traumatic events that are inconsistent with ordinary forgetting. C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in important areas of functioning. D. The disturbance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice. E. The symptoms are not attributable to the physiological effects of a substance

As we can notice, Saeran does have a disruption of identity; yet he doesn't suffer from major dissociative amnesia. He can recall what the other identity has done, even if he can't control it while it's happening. He remembers his past pretty well, and so his daily life.

His dissociation does cause disturbance in his normal life, but since his first dissociative episode was caused by the Cleansing ceremony, and is mainly triggered by the Elixir (as Unknown said himself, he needs the elixir to wake up), he does not fit in the last criteria either.

It is important to point out that, despite him suffering from severe childhood trauma, it isn't implied that he showed early dissociative symptoms, and even if dissociation can be manifested at any age, it is most likely that this was caused by Rika's torture.

With 3/5 criteria, we cannot diagnose DID, which forces us to look for a differential diagnosis.

Saeran does not have DID.

What is Saeran's disorder then?

With DID ruled out, we're still left with a wide variety of diagnoses when it comes to dissociative disorders. The WHO recognizes 10 entities within this family:

Among these conditions, there is one that fits surprisingly well to all the circumstances described in canon: Other Specified Dissociative Disorder Type 2, proposed by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, DSM-5.

OSDD2 is a clinical diagnosis where the subject experience dissociative symptoms manifested as prolonged changes in their identity, that might be accompanied by a disruption on their consciousness and/or memory; as a consequence of indoctrination, torture, brainwashing, and/or being recruited into cults.

The longer the brainwashing, the longer the symptoms prevail, which may worsen this identity disruption across time.

OSDD is an entity that has less strict diagnostic criteria, which can be summarized as:

Experience dissociative symptoms

Not fully meet criteria for other diagnosis

Identity disruption is a consequence of brainwashing.

Saeran meets these three criteria, which allows us to say that he very likely has OSDD2.

Unfortunately, OSDD2 is a very understudied and underreported condition, so it is very difficult to find more information about it other than its diagnostic criteria.

Finally, as I will explore in the conclusions, it is important to keep in mind that there are details that we do not know about Saeran. Elements about his past, future and evolution, which perhaps, in case new canon content is revealed, will make us reconsider this diagnosis in favor of a different one. But for now, with the information and evidence provided in this same post, i can safely conclude that Saeran has OSDD2.

Other, yet less likely, possible diagnosis: Partial Dissociative Identity Disorder (also known as OSDD1) as the second most fit to him, since he only doesn't meet 1 criteria (it is stated it can't be caused by drugs).

Much less, yet also likely, possible diagnosis: Secondary Dissociative Syndrome, Unspecified Dissociative Disorder.

Conclusions

It is always important to keep in mind that diagnoses are a consensus made by experienced people, who find similar patterns in certain ones and associate them with a syndrome or condition. Disorders as such, describe a group of people, adapting to them, it will never be the other way around. Diagnoses don't have to fit people's situation, not perfectly at least, and that doesn't mean their circumstances are any less valid or painful.

Diagnoses are meant to adapt to people, people don't have to adapt their situations to fit into a diagnosis.

Despite everything, Saeran will always be one person. Each of his fragments forms part of him, and therefore there isn't a Saeran less valid than other, or less "real" than other.

Lastly, if Saeran does indeed have OSDD2, with time and therapy love, it's very possible for him to become a single identity again. One of the characteristics of OSDD2 is that, since the person's identity is already structured beforehand, the traumatic event generally only manages to disturb it and not fragment it (since the age where structural integration consolidates has already passed), so recovery is very possible.

However, this is not an absolute. If dissociation continues to be encouraged for some reason, it will be difficult for him to reintegrate. Hence his need to be in a healthy, supportive environment that allows him to heal.

Of course, these are mostly assumptions, since reaching an accurate and definitive conclusion would require talking, studying and working with Saeran himself, and not with the limited information we have about him.

Finally, after all this, we can summarize this analysis in:

1. Saeran doesn't have DID 2. Saeran most likely has OSDD2 3. This may change with time and circumstances he could face in the future. Since by the end of the game, he has just begun his healing process.

If you managed to read this till here, I hope you enjoyed this analysis as much as I enjoyed writing it. Any comments will be appreciated ♡

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References

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, American Psychiatric Asociation 5° edition, 2014.

ICD-11 International Classification of Diseases for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics, World Health Organization Eleventh Revision, 2022

El Yo Atormentado. La Disociación Estructural Y El Tratamiento De La Traumatización Crónica. Onno Van Der Hart, 2011.

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everymanplural · 6 days ago

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hi, i’m your local laid off discord employee, here to talk about exactly how safe it may or may not be to talk about Political Activism on discord. my credentials here are that i was a senior member of discord’s trust & safety team, which is the team that handles bans, legal investigations, and legal compliance. (my speciality was in child safety, anti-grooming, and taking down CSAM, but i also worked occasionally in low level terrorism issues and assisted that team in investigations.) i also know most of the people still working there in these capacities.

the tldr and most important thing to know is: i do not recommend you plan, discuss plans, or use any kind of hyperbolic (or not) language about violence to government officials or anyone in that vicinity on discord. please use signal instead.

a discord trust & safety employee is technically able to see any message you’ve sent under your account, going all the way back to the beginning of your account. unless you have manually deleted a message, it is viewable to a tns employee. now: it is a tremendous part of being on a tns team that we did NOT invade user privacy without cause. cause was usually: another user reported something you said, and we thought the reported message indicated you might be doing something elsewhere that was illegal (for example: a user says “i’m talking to this girl but she’s in high school lol.” i would then try to find evidence as to whether or not there was a child safety issue there. in this example, we’d require clear admission of age from both the user and the alleged high school girl, and then clear evidence of sexual talk between them, and go from there.) finding evidence required looking though all of that user’s messages.

most of the tns team, as i know them, are pretty resolute about not going further in looking than would be needed for action. most of the tns team that i still speak to is very much on the side of blue. your general conversations are probably perfectly safe, and we were very good at figuring out quickly if someone has reported you maliciously. i don’t believe you need to worry too much about your porn and fanfic and all that.

HOWEVER: reported content must be investigated, and discord can, and has been, legally subpoenaed to turn over user information. again, this has nominally been in Very Evil cases (CSAM and grooming, school shooting threats, murder admissions, etc.) but that could change, either at the federal level, or at the discord policy level. discord, like any social media company, could easily be pressured or forced into taking on different internal policies that could get you in serious trouble if you are organizing violent or “illegal” resistance. if that happens, there is a scenario where this incoming administration is given access to your messages.

again: please do not organize your political or social resistance on discord from now on. please use signal to ensure your maximum safety. do not panic if you have already talks about things on discord: you can easily delete your messages, and that WILL remove from an employee’s view. do that and use signal from now on.

stay safe. i love you. 💕

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