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A conversation between Moto Hagio, Hideaki Anno, and Shimako Sato

In our first ever translation work we share a riveting conversation between Moto Hagio, Hideaki Anno, and Shimako Sato! Read on our wordpress or keep reading on tumblr under the readmore

For the 189th issue of the Magazine House publication Hato yo! published January 1st 2000, movie director and screenwriter Shimako Sato leads a three way conversation between herself and her acquaintances, the anime and live action movie director Hideaki Anno, and manga artist Moto Hagio. Together they discuss their respective admiration for each other’s work, Anno’s past statements on otaku, their takes on parent-child relations, how to escape puberty, and why Anno finds it scary to be around children.

To Me, There is 5 Ways To End a Story

Hagio: I got really into Neon Genesis Evangelion after it finished airing (laughter). I had been told by an acquaintance that Eva was a work that had “fans who were looking forward to watching the series so enraged by the developments in the final episode that they broke their TVs” (laughter). I wondered what could a work that evokes such strong emotions be like? I was really interested, so I borrowed the VHS tapes from a friend of Shimako-san’s, then I started watching.

Anno: I’m a big fan of Hagio-san’s manga, so when Shimako-san first said she could introduce us and arrange this meeting I was truly happy. The fact that you took an interest in Eva is an honor but… When I first heard “to me, there are five ways to end a story” I thought “as expected; amazing!” So after several twists and turns I finally reached a conclusion

Sato: Anno-san, when did you first encounter Hagio-san’s work?

Anno: The first one I read was They Were 11! during its serialization. In elementary school I read it at the Ear-Nose-Throat Doctor. I generally read manga at the waiting room there or at the barbers, since I didn’t really get any manga to read at home. When I read They Were 11! back then I was blown away. After that I read Hyaku Oku no Hiru to Senoku no Yoru [trans: Ten Billion Days and One Hundred Billion Nights, original story by Ryu Mitsuse]. My favorite work is Half-god [Hanshin]. The fact that such a meaningful story could be told in only 16 pages is amazing. I think Hagio-san is a genius storyteller, but her art is amazing as well. In middle school I thought that if I copied Hagio-san’s art I’d become better at drawing.

Sato: If you had also imitated her storytelling would that perhaps have changed Eva’s final episode? (laughter)

Saving the world, love and hatred

Anno: You know, I don’t have much interest in concluding a story.

Sato: Do you hate wrapping a furoshiki? [trans note: a traditional wrapping cloth]

Anno: No, it’s that I think you can do more with a furoshiki than tie it up pretty. Like break it or tear it to shreds, all kinds of things.

Sato: If we include all that, isn’t that still doing the act of wrapping?

Hagio: In your case Anno-san, I find your way of grasping the world unique.

Sato: For both Anno-san and Hagio-san, even with the differences between manga and anime you’re making a serialized work, right. When you make a long-form work, is the ending something that is already decided? Or is it something that changes?

Anno: For me it’s something like a live performance, and ends up gradually changing as I create the work.

Hagio: I’m a bit too careful, so I can’t draw if I haven’t thought of the ending. An exception is when I made Star Red. Otherworld Barbara which I made later also ended up becoming an exception

Anno: Star Red’s ending was magnificent. I was also influenced by Star Red. Actually, I’ve written some dialogue similar to the one in Star Red’s ending

Sato: Which of the characters do you like?

Anno: Well, the protagonist.

Sato: I like Elg. At first I thought he was a rather unreliable person, but he gradually came to play an active role. By the end he revived a dead planet through love.

Hagio: I also like characters like that!

Sato: When I watch Anno’s works like Eva I feel like you are more the kind of person who saves the world through hatred, what do you think?

Anno: I don’t know

Hagio: That feeling of uncertainty becomes the foundation of your storytelling doesn’t it? I come to think that that feeling is something so overflowing you can’t tie it all together.

Sato: It seems you have some differences when it comes to making a story, but I think one thing your stories have in common is perhaps parent-child relations?

Anno: That is true, Hagio-san. Your relationship with your mother appears in your work…

Hagio: When I was a child, my older sister was my mother’s favorite, I was always compared to her. It seemed my mother thought that compared to my sister I was unreliable so she always worried about me, even when I was into my thirties she’d tell me to quit making manga.

Sato: And that was during The Poe Clan’s heyday wasn’t it?

Hagio: (laughter) When I was watching Eva, something that really caught my attention was Shinji-kun worrying about whether or not he was useful to his father. Yet there was a distance between them. During that time I was very interested in, to put it into words, “broken relations.”

Otaku Are Generally Uncool

Sato: Anno-san, in your work I think father-son relations is something that makes an appearance. Are there any real experiences behind that?

Anno: My family was normal. If I have a complex it would be that we were a poor family rather than a just normal one, and my father has only one leg. Regardless, I think stories about parents are the simplest to make, it’s easy.

Sato: So since Eva is a parent-child story it ended up like that?

Anno: What makes it easy is that we have some preconceived assumptions about [parent-child relations], “have you argued with your parents?” and such.

Sato: What appears in your work isn’t those things, but your own internalized problems don’t you think.

Anno: That appears to be it. As for my family we truly were the archetypical lower middle class household. My father was a good person. A sensible man. When you’re under circumstances like my father was you have to live sensibly or else you’re excluded.

Sato: So in opposition to that, you became an otaku.

Anno: That might be it. Your most important model for what normalcy is is your family. But I have a younger sister and she is exceedingly normal. She doesn’t read manga, there is nothing twisted about her at all.

Sato: And by twisted you mean?

Anno: That she’s not an otaku.

Sato: Anno-san, you’ve said that you hate otaku, haven’t you.

Anno: It’s not hate. It’s just that I think otaku are uncool. To otherwise not notice that you’re uncool or purposefully suppressing that fact makes me feel disgusted.

Sato: What about The Matrix? Isn’t that a cool otaku movie?

Anno: That one is also uncool.

Hagio: Even though Keanu Reeves is cool.

Anno: Keanu is cool. Because he is not an otaku. The otaku are the Wachowskis. They can’t get out of the confinements of their otaku-ism. So for example, even if they make something cool, part of it will for certain be otaku-like Even though I say this I don’t hate it. If I truly did I’d quit being an otaku.

Sato: Hagio-san, would you say your family was normal or was it perhaps affluent?

Joh (Hagio’s manager): Hagio-san and her mother actually have a similar biorhythm. It was perhaps due to that fact that Hagio rebelled by pursuing the path of becoming a manga artist.

Hagio: I might have been running away by drawing. But, if I had rebelled by becoming a delinquent I think it perhaps might’ve been more enriching to me as a person.

Anno: To become a creator is not something I think is a happy path to go down. In order to not be unhappy you have to work for dear life. At the very least create works as if you’re going back to zero [from the negatives].

Hagio: Is it a negative? Because you are an otaku?

Anno: Being an otaku is a huge negative. You make up for it either by relying on others or by producing creative works. With that said, I think my generation has it easier than yours, Hagio-san. This is an era where even old men read manga. My parents even now have no issues with my line of work. I appear in Asahi Shimbun, I appear on NHK, they have nothing to worry about. That is also why I will try not to ever refuse any coverage from my hometown newspapers.

Hagio: But don’t you think parents don’t truly understand? Even if I become famous, my parents will say; can’t you quit drawing manga? And just appear in the newspaper? (laughter)

Sato: But if you quit drawing manga you won’t appear in the newspaper. (laughter)

Hagio: In that context, a part of me still expects too much affirmation from my parents. Not externally but internally. Even if I appear in Asahi Shimbun I still end up thinking it’s not good enough.

Sato: The fact that you still worry so much about what your parents think at your age Hagio-san, it’s so strange.

Hagio: Yes, I think so too

Anno: Could it be that you have to become a parent to change that part of you that worries so much about what your parents think?

Sato: I don’t worry at all about what my parents think.

Anno: I also don’t care even a little bit. As far as I’m concerned, I’m bored if I get my parents’ approval. When I did Nadia: The Secret Of Blue Water for NHK I felt that feeling.

Sato: Do you have a replacement parent figure?

Anno: Well, a man without imaginary enemies is no good. For me right now, I think I want to make works that have Hayao Miyazaki beat.

Sato: Hagio-san, your worries might also be what gives birth to your works.

Hagio: That might be the case.

Sato: Anno-san, earlier, you said “you have to become a parent to change.” I personally don’t think if you don’t have children you can’t become an adult. I think that being an adult is being independent in everything you do. That’s why I think marriage or having children doesn’t change anything.

Anno: You can become a parent without being an adult. At 17 or 18 you could become a parent. To become a parent without even being an adult, that is the problem I think.

Sato: Do you consider yourself to be an adult, Anno-san?

Anno: I guess I’m a child.

Sato: I don’t consider my parents to be adults.

Hagio: I’m very discontent with the fact that my parents aren’t adults.

Anno: I’m not discontent.

Sato: For me realizing that my parents aren’t absolute adults was a relief during my middle school years. Until then I had played the role of an exemplary student, but when I realized that fact I stopped playing that role.

Hagio: So you’re a child who didn’t fit into your parents’ expectations. I was also a child who didn’t fit into my parents’ expectations, but the fact that they didn’t shrug their shoulders and say “that’s fine,” filled me with anxiety. I thought that if I become an adult I’d lose that anxiety. But I want recognition from people. I continue to request affirmation.

Sato: Anno-san, in Eva you portrayed children like this, but are you like this yourself?

Anno: The affirmation? Hmmm. That kind of thing changes with the project.

Hagio & Sato: ?

Anno: I don’t believe in the supremacy of the director of a work, but rather the work itself. What would be best for the work, I only base my judgment on the total. Although I won’t hand over the executive decisions.

Hagio: Manga is a one-man job, but with a movie there’s the director, the scriptwriter, the actors, etc. Each of them sees themselves as a leading part. Furthermore as living beings the things we do will sometimes diverge from the plan we made in our heads. The fun of living is discovering what those differences will be.

Is Eva The Rite of Passage That Will Get Us Through Puberty?

Sato: The movie Love & Pop that you directed Anno-san, the original creator Ryuu Murakami-san and yourself are both men, yet the story is about high school girls. I found that interesting.

Hagio: I thought that both of you wanted to be very similar to an archetypical girl. You said you wanted to see a part of puberty, and girlhood that you couldn’t control. After all, men aren’t just made up of boys. I believe that femininity and masculinity is something we have combined within us. Sort of androgynous.

Sato: The boys you create not having that vivid true-to-life quality to them I think is a representation of that. Anno-san, as a man, what do you think of the boys in Hagio-san’s manga?

Anno: I could see myself in them. I think what I like the most is that all the characters are smart. Because they have such a high intelligence it feels good to read.

Hagio: Like a washing machine right at the peak of its cycle, I want to leave my characters on the verge of that kind of critical point [of merger]. To be honest, the idea that once you’re past 30 you’ve become an old lady, that sense is something we’ve left behind.

Sato: I’ve found that when men become old they lose their ability to be nihilistic in their work, is it the same as that?

Anno: In the case of men, as you age, the world view [of your fiction] rather than your characters come to reflect your nihilism. You don’t aspire to be nihilistic, you yourself are becoming nihilistic. Your world view is what gradually utilizes nihilism. Isao Takahata, for example, is a nihilistic person. Nothing is born from being nihilistic. As nihilism is Plus-Minus-Zero, eventually your heart can’t be moved.

Hagio: A world that doesn’t change, isn’t that comfortable?

Sato: Even though in order to grow you have to fight. By asking like this, Anno-san, did you not experience puberty?

Anno: That might be it.

Hagio: I thought you were right in the middle of puberty.

Anno: I thought I’m losing it, but it might be puberty. Generally speaking, otaku don’t go through puberty.

Hagio: I thought otaku went through a prolonged chronic puberty.

Anno: It’s not what society ordinarily calls puberty.

Hagio: A never ending puberty, in this age, could it perhaps be because there are no more rites of passage?

Anno: Sure enough, you have to bungee jump. (laughter)

Hagio: A ritual to let your childhood die and then replay it, such a thing doesn’t exist now. Taking entrance exams may be the closest to [a rite of passage].

Sato: Don’t you feel like lately that around age 30 is when the coming of age ceremony actually happens?

Hagio: For that part, that’s when the stories takes on that role I think.

Sato: As a ritual?

Hagio: It’s not a ritual, but perhaps more intuitive? A trial run on a mock life. By that definition, I noticed Eva is just like that. I had an acquaintance who is a teacher from the Kyoto Steiner school. They saw the Eva movie in theaters. At that time they found the reactions of the people watching to be more interesting than the story. They had thought, isn’t it like we’ve all come to see the rite of passage which we all failed? I thought so as well “that’s right, that is interesting.” The rite of passage to become an adult after entering puberty, be it Gundam or Eva those stories put people in a position where they are observing the world, observing themselves, experiencing war and such.

Sato: Anno-san, were you considering all this…

Anno: I didn’t make it like that. But when I was making the movie I was thinking of this a little.

Hagio: When I watched Eva it ended up overlapping with the book Childhood [by Jan Myrdal]. It’s a book about a mother who can’t love her child. She thinks “I have to take care of this child”, but even so she can’t love him. I wonder what happens to children raised like this. Children learn from their parents. In truth there will be consequences for the parent, but the question on my mind was children who can’t find their place with the parent, where can they find their place instead? Although I thought you were such a person when you were making Eva, Anno-san. (laughter)

Sato: Speaking of, the other day you were on a TV show teaching grade schoolers about anime, Anno-san. What do you think of children?

Anno: I was scared of being in contact with children. I don’t understand the appropriate distance to take. I believe even the most casual thing an adult says mustn’t traumatize them, I end up becoming oversensitive. In grade school during still drawing class, I’d draw roof tiles and other detailed things, but humans moved around and I found it annoying, so I never drew people. Because of that my teacher said “this isn’t a child’s drawing,” which deeply hurt me. In the end, from that experience I think it was a part of the reason why I decided on working with drawing. Even though I opposed standardized education, I really felt the difficulty of dealing with not having a basic manual.

By the way, how much longer until Zankoku na Kami ga Shihai Suru [trans: A Cruel God Reigns] ends? I made a mistake. I wanted to read it all at once, right, so I refrained from buying it but… when volume 6 came out I ended up buying all of them.

Hagio: Oh yes, right. July next year I think.

Anno: Understood. Then the final collected volume will be out in the fall of next year. Hmm well that means I can enjoy it for another year. Understood.

Sato: Isn’t that great.

------------------------------

Translated by mod Juli, with assistance from two financially compensated native speakers.

Since the initial upload of this translation minor edits have been done to correct grammar and spelling mistakes. On March 1st 2025 an edit has been made on the following line: Anno: I think they have empathy. I think what I like the most is that all the characters are smart. Because they have such a high intelligence it feels good to read. It now says: Anno: I could see myself in them. I think what I like the most is that all the characters are smart. Because they have such a high intelligence it feels good to read.

A scan of the full interview raws has now been added to the wordpress version!

#translation #hideaki anno #moto hagio #shimako sato

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fujoshimenacecw · 4 years ago

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Examining the DNA of BL

Takemiya & Hagio

Edited by Arianna, Oscar, Nabilah, & Hilal Content Warning: Mentions of p*dophilia, p*derasty, and sexual abuse. NOTE: Alt-text and image credits can be found on our Wordpress blog

Setting the Stage:

This article is the first of many entries in a series dedicated to exploring the genre labels encompassing male-male romance media marketed to women. We begin this endeavor by examining the early careers of two prominent artists in the history of male-male romance centric manga, Keiko Takemiya and Moto Hagio, and their contributions to the formation of the shounen-ai genre. These two artists created standalone one-shots as rookies before eventually publishing their career-defining works. Their lives and careers intersected in a now highly-mythologized period of their personal histories. In investigating this period, we will highlight the works which remain embedded in the DNA of the commercial genre we know today as BL (Boys’ Love), male-male romance and erotica made primarily by women and marketed towards a predominantly female audience. We also touch on the media and literature which informed these works.

The late 60’s and early 70’s was a time of change in the world of shoujo manga, comics for girls. More female artists had gained prominence in the category throughout the 60’s, such as Hideko Mizuno, Miyako Maki, and Masako Watanabe. Publications dedicated solely to shoujo manga replaced the pre-war girls novelette magazines, setting the stage for a brand new generation of female manga artists to make their mark in the world of shoujo manga [1]. Having debuted in the midst of a growing and changing manga industry, Takemiya (debuting in ‘67) and Hagio (debuting in ‘69), both 20 years of age, struggled to obtain parental approval to move to Tokyo to pursue careers as manga artists. Consequently, they each spent the first year after their debut working from their hometowns Tokushima and Ohmuta city. This proved problematic, as all the editorial offices for the major publishers were in Tokyo. After Hagio’s debut in Kodansha’s Nakayoshi, she struggled to find continued approval for her stories, as the publisher was very strict in their commitment to maintaining a theme for their publications [2].

Meeting of the Minds:

Hagio’s and Takemiya’s paths converged when Takemiya had to travel down from her hometown of Tokushima to Tokyo because she had struggled to complete her manuscripts for Shogakukan, Shueisha, and Kodansha. She was immediately put through two rounds of the now-retired practice of “canning,” wherein a manga artist is locked in a hotel room or ryokan by their editor until the manuscript is complete, often with intense supervision[3]. Hagio, having heard of this from her Kodansha editor during her own trip to Tokyo to pitch story ideas, asked if she could help Takemiya; this would be their first meeting. Through the meeting with Hagio, Takemiya was introduced to a reader, Norie Masuyama, with whom Hagio was staying for her trip [4]. Hagio and Masuyama came into contact after the publication of the standalone one-shot “爆発会社” (“Bakuhatsugaisha”) in Bessatsu Nakayoshi in 1969 when Hagio received a letter from Masuyama with whom she began mail correspondence [5]. Takemiya, likewise, introduced Hagio to her Shogakukan editor Junya Yamamoto, who bought Hagio’s rejected manuscripts and would go on to be a consistent supporter for Hagio [6].

Hagio returned to Ohmuta City while Takemiya was able to gain her parents’ approval to move to the capital. Takemiya decided to work mainly with Shogakukan and its fairly new weekly shoujo magazine 週刊少女コミック (Shuukan Shoujo Komikku) Weekly Shoujo Comic, granting her parental consent and the freedom to pursue her career in Tokyo. While living by herself from ‘69-70 she grew closer to Masuyama, who was her own age and was out of school because she had failed to enter a prestigious music school per her parents’ wishes. Masuyama became a great source of influence for Takemiya in particular. Described by Takemiya as Tokyo born and raised, with great interest and knowledge in culture and media analysis, Masuyama was rather engrossed in the world of manga and shared Takemiya’s desire for “a revolution” [7]. This “revolution” entailed elevating shoujo manga into a more literary art form [8]. However, Masuyama was not a manga artist herself, hence she reached out to Hagio whose artistic abilities had impressed her.

During the period in which Takemiya was living by herself before moving to Ōizumi, she describes in her 2016 memoir, 少年の名はジルベール (Shounen no Na wa Gilbert) The Boy’s Name is Gilbert, how when looking at her poster of Millet’s Daphnis and Chloe, inspiration suddenly struck and the image of a boy named “Gilbert” came to her [9]. She immediately called Masuyama to share the idea, and the two sat on the phone for eight hours discussing and sharing ideas for what would become Kaze to Ki no Uta (Song of Wind and Trees) [10]. They developed the story of Gilbert, a young boy sealed away at a countryside boarding school, where he is treated like “a male prostitute” by the students and teachers, but he would find camaraderie with a transfer student, a boy of mixed heritage who likewise experienced discrimination and ostracization from their peers [11]. The story would incorporate many elements from their shared interests and favorite literature.

It would take another six years of struggle against the Shogakukan editorial department before Takemiya could get her ‘life work’ into print. Takemiya and Masuyama felt that the way shoujo manga of the time rigorously conformed to the conventions of only having cute young female protagonists and simple boy-girl romances was a hindrance; they wanted not only more diverse themes, but also more male characters as the focus in stories. Additionally the magazine covers fronted by illustrations of cute girls were a point of contention for the two. As Masuyama said, even American girls’ magazines had boys on the cover, presumably because ‘girls like boys’ [12]. It is still worth noting, however, that male models, and illustrations of couples that included a male character could sporadically be seen on the covers of Japanese girls comics magazines during this time, including Shoujo Comic. But solo illustrations of male characters were not common.

The careers of Hagio and Takemiya intersected for roughly two years (1970-72) in a period during which they cohabitated. This living arrangement began after Hagio finally moved to Tokyo, and Takemiya, who had lived all by herself since her move to the capital, craved company. They lived under the same roof, but in separate apartments at a rowhouse near Masuyama’s home in Ōizumi located in Tokyo’s Nerima ward, this space would be affectionately named Ōizumi Salon.

Masuyama recommended the literature and films that would later inspire and influence Hagio and Takemiya. Herman Hesse’s novels, such as Demian, Under the Wheel and Narcissus and Goldmund and movies like A Death in Venice (1971), Les amitiés particulières or A Special Friendship (1964) served as sources of inspiration. Takemiya and Masuyama, however, had already individually become fans of The Vienna Boys’ Choir, and Taruho Inagaki’s 少年愛の美学 (Shounen-ai no Bigaku) or The Aesthetics of Boy Loving. While Takemiya may have borrowed the word shounen-ai from Inagaki, her interpretation of shounen-ai differed in that it was not grounded in the idea of an older individual with a young boy, but rather the free love between two boys [13]. We will specifically address the pederast philosophy present in Inagaki’s works and their connections to the shounen-ai and BL genres in forthcoming articles.

Masuyama and Takemiya’s interest in homosexuality also led them to the legendary gay magazine Barazoku. Hagio has described how the two showed her issues of the magazine, but personally she found the content to be unattractive or ‘coarse’ [14]. She instead understood the ‘beauty’ of male-male romance through the film A Special Friendship [15]. From this inspiration, she began what she thought would just be another one of her unpublished projects, namely Heart of Thomas [16].

Budding Careers:

Takemiya hadn’t dared to bring up the topic of Kaze to Ki no Uta (henceforth referred to as Kaze Ki) or shounen-ai to her editors, having been certain that they would immediately dismiss it due to the male-male romance aspect [17]. But an opportunity to get a shounen-ai story published came in 1970 when she struggled to create a story she had already promised for Shoujo Comics’ new sister magazine 別冊少女コミック Bessatsu Shoujo Comic. Despite the title and a preview already being set and printed, she decided to steer off course and create her first attempt at shounen-ai. The story was titled “雪と星と天使と…” (“Yuki to Hoshi to Tenshi to..”), and was later retitled “サンルームにて” (“Sunroom Nite”) “In the Sunroom”.

“In the Sunroom,” which served as practice for Kaze Ki, would be notable for featuring the first male-male kiss in shoujo manga [18]. The story follows two young boys from different backgrounds, Etoile Rael and Serge Battour, and depicts them studying in the same school and developing romantic feelings for each other. The story culminates in a tragic end with Etoile’s death. The similarities to what would become Kaze Ki lie, for example, in Serge; in addition to sharing a name with Kaze Ki’s protagonist, also named Serge Battour, they also share Roma ancestry. Etoile also has many design features in common with Gilbert, such as his blonde hair, his very pale skin, and his tragic fate.

This guerilla tactic of delivering a story completely different from what was previously agreed on caused a conflict with the editorial department, in particular with Yamamoto, as “Sunroom” did not match the originally set title nor the already published preview [19]. Because there was no time for her to redo her manuscript or find a replacement, there was no choice for the editors but to let it run. In a later incident in which she was requested to do a Shoujo Comic cover, she drew an androgynous young boy instead of submitting the usual cute young girl. This did not please Yamamoto, but yet again, due to time constraints they had no choice but to let it run. According to Takemiya, these incidents dealt a blow to the editors’ trust toward her but paid off by way of supportive fan response through letters she received for “Sunroom.” A fellow manga artist with a similar interest in male-male romance, Ryoko Yamagishi, reached out to her as well [20].

Hagio followed suit with her ‘made for publication’ version of Heart of Thomas; “11月のギムナジウム“ (”Juuichigatsu no Gymnasium”) or “November Gymnasium” in 1971, which also ran in Bessatsu Shoujo Comic. The story is set in a German boarding school and follows the lives of Eric and Thomas, two young boys who share an uncanny resemblance–except for the color of their hair and eyes. While the relationship between the two is strained, Eric and Thomas are also drawn to each other until Eric’s sudden death. This tragic passing is accompanied by the revelation that the two boys are twins who were separated at birth. Apart from the relationship between Eric and Thomas, suggestions of male-male romance can also be read from the relationship between Thomas and Oscar. Oscar was a boy a year older who supposedly flunked to be in the same class as Thomas. Additionally, Thomas’ reputation portrayed him as a desirable “idol” among his all-male classmates who went as far as to compare him to “candy”, indicating further connotations of male-male attraction.

It is worth noting that Hagio describes no conflict in getting the story published, as Yamamoto usually accepted her manuscripts with little commentary. However, Hagio has noted also that Masuyama was rather displeased with the revelation that the boys were drawn to each other, because they were brothers [21]. From Masuyama’s displeasure with Hagio’s conclusion and with consideration of Masuyama’s media influence, one might presume that the aforementioned displeasure reveals that Masuyama perhaps expected that Hagio would not only share a vision of shounen-ai but also portray its themes in accordance with those expectations. Despite their creative differences, the two artists continued to build momentum for themselves, and friendship with fans and fellow rookies at the Ōizumi Salon, which became a meeting point for many young female mangaka.

In 1972, Hagio began an irregular serial of interconnected stand-alone stories, namely ポーの一族 The Poe Clan (1972-76), in the monthly Bessatsu Shoujo Comic. The Poe Clan was a story that spans centuries while following the 14-year-old immortal vampire Edgar, his sister Marybelle, and the boy Allan, who is turned by Edgar. While shounen-ai is not a label that succinctly describes the entire text, The Poe Clan can be loosely associated with the genre. These readings emerge from stories such as one in which a kiss between Edgar and another boy is depicted. Additionally, in the stories following Edgar and Allan as they navigate eternal adolescence together, they appear to exhibit an intimate bond, as in one story they even act as surrogate parents for a young human girl.

Diverging Paths:

While The Poe Clan was working to prove itself as a hit among readers, tensions were brewing at the Ōizumi Salon. Takemiya found herself negatively compared to the skillful and diligent Hagio by their shared editor, Yamamoto, who found Takemiya’s career as a manga artist confusing [22]. Adding insult to injury, Takemiya’s 50 page manuscript of Kaze Ki drafted in January of 1971 was repeatedly rejected by publishers [23]. The comparison to Hagio alongside this series of rejections heightened Takemiya’s sense of insecurity about her abilities. In Takemiya’s account on the end of Ōizumi Salon, she merely remarks that she decided to leave when the lease was up toward the end of 1972, as the intense feelings of anxiety made it difficult for her to work [24]. The Ōizumi Salon subsequently dissolved, leaving Hagio and Takemiya to embark on their separate paths, although they still lived close to one another.

The one-sided tension from Takemiya towards Hagio eventually reached a boiling point in March 1973 after part one of The Poe Clan story “The Birds’ Nest,” which followed Edgar and Allan as they attended a German boys’ boarding school, was published. Hagio describes in her memoir, 一度きり大泉の話 (Ichido Kiri Ōizumi no Hanashi) (2021), how Masuyama and Takemiya accused her of plagiarizing the drafts of Kaze to Ki no Uta, claiming that several elements of Hagio’s work were too similar to Takemiya’s work in content and character [25]. They took issue with elements such as a boys’ boarding school by a river, scenes at a greenhouse, and even the motif of roses. These accusations are difficult to resolve at first glance due to their shared sources of inspiration and the commonality of these particular motifs in shoujo manga at the time. Masuyama additionally expressed dissatisfaction with Hagio’s representation and understanding of shounen-ai and bishounen or “beautiful boys” [26]. Following this incident, their careers grew rather distant but remained fairly professional.

When, in 1974, Shogakukan wanted a longer weekly serial to compete with the huge success of Shueisha’s Rose of Versailles by Riyoko Ikeda running in the weekly Margaret, Hagio was requested to do the competing serial. She stressed how she wouldn’t be able to sustain a several years-long serial like Versailles, but as she already had many pages worth of drafts for Heart of Thomas she presented it to the editorial staff [27]. Heart of Thomas (henceforth referred to as Thomas), a period piece that is much like “November Gymnasium,” which takes place at a German boys’ boarding school. But unlike “November Gymnasium,” Thomas opens in the way A Special Friendship ends, with a suicide. The story begins with news of the titular Thomas’ death, an event that would go on to haunt the characters Juli, the upperclassman whose love and attention Thomas tried to capture, and Erich, a transfer student who is the spitting image of the late Thomas. Described by Hagio herself as a coming of age story, Thomas is allegorical in its visuals yet textually explicit about its theme of all the many shapes of love–parental, romantic, and platonic–while also exploring the theme of abandonment by parents and subtly addressing an incident of sexual abuse [28]. These themes are explored as the characters face their traumatic pasts so that they may look forward to a brighter future [29].

The series was greenlit but Thomas struggled to capture the attention of the young readers and remained at the bottom of the reader poll. Hagio was forced to buy more time from the editors on a week per week basis to be able to complete the story the way she wanted [30]. The tides turned when the first tankobon, or trade paperbacks, of The Poe Clan sold out of its 30,000 print run in three days, proving her wider marketability [31]. Thanks to the success of her sales, more attention from readers who otherwise would not have picked up Shoujo Comic were led to Thomas and she was able to leverage the success of Poe to complete a one year run [32]. By its final chapter, the series garnered a remarkable amount of reader attention, but still only peaked at 5th place in the reader poll. Readers who struggled to follow her work in the fragmented format of the weekly serial could again experience the story more cohesively as it was released in three trade paperback volumes in 1975.

Falling Behind Amid a Shoujo Revolution:

The world of shoujo manga was transforming as attitudes were changing and an increasing number of authors embarked on ambitious projects and tackled topics previously considered taboo. But Takemiya, who was living with Masuyama during an emotional and professional slump, was lagging behind in the very revolution she wanted to participate in. Masuyama took on a role as Takemiya’s “manager” and assistant, while Takemiya was eventually assigned to a new editor who had recently transferred from Shogakukan’s boys’ manga magazine Weekly Shonen Sunday to Shoujo Comic.

The new editor, referred to by Takemiya as M-san, did not immediately dismiss and refuse Kaze Ki but instead said that if she made a serial that reached the top of the reader the poll , then Kaze Ki, the story she wanted so badly to put out into the world, could finally be greenlit. Up to this point, a significant roadblock in Kaze Ki’s road to publication was its explicit sexual content. From its initial draft up until the finished product, Kaze Ki opens with 14-year-old Gilbert in bed in the midst of a sex act with an upperclassman. These opening pages were far from the only explicit depictions of sex and nudity in the draft. Takemiya claimed that Yamamoto informed her of the fact that the magazine was delivered to the Japanese imperial palace, implying that the works published in Shojo Comic had to maintain an acceptable amount of “decency” and could not publish explicit sex scenes or content that directly featured graphic sexual activity [33]. Sex was referenced and depicted in shoujo manga before Kaze Ki; however, the representation tended to be much more abstract and less graphic - even kiss scenes had historically been considered controversial [34].

With this promise from M-san finally giving her the opportunity to publish Kaze Ki, Takemiya could move forward with a sense of clarity and purpose [35].

The serial that Takemiya developed with input from Masuyama started running in Shoujo Comic from 1974. The series she created to reach the top of the readers poll was titled ファラオの墓 (Pharaoh no Haka) The Tomb of the Pharaoh, a historical fantasy set in a fictionalized ancient Egypt. The story follows the conflict between Sariokis, the prince of the destroyed nation of Esteria, and Sneferu, the pharaoh of the conquering nation of Urjna. Takemiya chose Egypt as the setting for her work because she wanted to draw robed boys with their “pretty” skin exposed [36]. However, as it was published to prove her marketability to readers to her editors, it was not a ‘shounen-ai’ manga in the sense of there being any exploration of male-male romance; it instead focused on boy-girl relationships. Still, the aspect of beautiful male characters remained important. Takemiya studied Mizuno Hideko’s 星のたてごと (Hoshi no Tategeto) and 銀の花びら (Gin no Hanabira) in order to better present romance to readers. Takemiya’s preoccupation with a doomed or a forbidden relationship was still present in the story, with Sariokis falling in love with Sneferu’s fiancé and Sneferu falling in love with Sariokis’ sister. The recurring motif of forbidden love and tragic endings would remain present in Takemiya’s work.

The series successfully proved Takemiya’s wider marketability with a celebratory autograph event and noteworthy sales for the trade paperbacks of Pharaoh no Haka. While the ranking fluctuated throughout the series’ run, its popularity was sufficient in getting Kaze Ki greenlit in Shoujo Comic in 1976. Now considered a milestone in shoujo manga, but not without its controversies, Kaze to Ki no Uta is a period piece set in 19th century France that follows Serge Battour, the son of a French viscount and a Roma woman, an orphan when the story begins. The reader follows Serge as he enrolls at a boys boarding school. While the school has a colorful cast of characters, the main focus lingers on the young Gilbert Cocteau.

Gilbert is a 14-year-old boy who is continually sexually abused by both upperclassmen and teachers, and for this, he is shunned and mocked by his peers. Serge’s Roma heritage is utilized to make him an ‘othered’ individual, similar to Gilbert. Unlike Gilbert, however, he has to continuously deal with racist microaggressions and overt discrimination from his peers and strangers. Gilbert’s existence in the manga proves a focal point in the philosophy of ‘appreciation of male beauty’ because of the way Takemiya visually lingers over his body, positioning him as having been gifted with a profound beauty that captivate older men. The story goes on to rather explicitly deal with racism, child sexual abuse in and outside of the family, and the deep romantic and sexual bonds between young boys. It ran in Shoujo Comic until 1981 before moving to the newly established Puchi Flower where it ran until 1984.

Takemiya and Hagio continued to make successful stories in several genres, especially science fiction. Takemiya published Terra e… which ran in the boy’s manga magazine マンガ少年 Manga Shounen (1978-79), and Andromeda Stories written by Ryu Mitsuse (1980-81). Hagio’s exploration of sci-fi spans from They Were 11! (1975), to Otherworld Barbara (2002-05). But what may be most interesting about Hagio’s extended bibliography is her explorations of motherhood, gender, and the inner life of her characters. Masuyama is also not without her own bibliography; by choice she was an uncredited writer for Takemiya’s 変奏曲 (Hensoukyoku), a series of connected shounen-ai stories irregularly published from 1974 to 1985 set in the world of classical music. From 1990 to 1994, she also wrote three sequel novels to Kaze Ki titled 神の子羊 (Kami no Kohitsuji) that were serialized in JUNE under the pen name Norie Haaze.

Takemiya and Hagio were far from the only authors in the commercial space who made stories with predominantly male casts, explorations of bonds between boys or between men or even male-male romance; particularly noteworthy works of the era are Maya Mineo’s パタリロ! Patalliro! (1978-), Toshie Kihara’s 摩利と新吾 (Mari to Shingo) (1977-84), Yumiko Ōshima’s バナナ��レッドのプディング Banana Bread Pudding (1977-78), and Yasuko Aoike’s エロイカより愛をこめて From Eroica with Love (1976-2012).

Looking Forward:

Despite having shared influences, Hagio and Takemiya possess extremely different philosophies towards ‘shounen-ai.’ In an interview with Aniwa Jun, Hagio states that boys are not only stand-ins for girls and sources of admiration for them, but also the very act of “becoming boys” is what girls aspire to [37]. In similar fashion, Hagio, when interviewed by Rachel Thorn, mentions that her choice in young boys as protagonists for The Poe Clan was because she considered them “non-sexual” and because the reader ages were around the same age as the characters [38]. In the same interview, she stated that while she considered making “November Gymnasium” a story set in an all-girls school, she found it came out too “giggly” and later mentioned that boys could say the lines girls could without it coming off as “cheeky” [39]. To modern and more politically informed readers this would obviously be considered misogynistic, and this was not lost onHagio herself. Akiko Joh, Hagio’s long-time manager, asserted that girls are very harsh with female characters but exceptionally lenient with male characters, which Hagio agreed to, discerning that she was still bound to stereotypes [40].

Compared to Hagio’s ideals of boys as 'non-sexual,’ Takemiya’s admiration of boys appears to have been in the form of young boys as objects of desire for herself and the readers as she focused deeply on the physical beauty of the boys themselves. While Hagio’s male characters are beautiful, their beauty is usually not constructed to evoke sensual desire or gratification from the reader, unlike Takemiya who focused heavily on the sexuality of the boys and portrayed them in sexually graphic situations. Because of her focus on sexuality and her connection to the shounen-ai magazine JUNE, Takemiya’s influence on the Boys’ Love genre and the doujinshi culture surrounding it is more singularly significant and will carry over to our exploration of the next era in Boys’ Love genre history.

As this period of Hagio’s and Takemiya’s career draws to a close, it is important to return to 'shounen-ai’ etymology. To begin with, Takemiya and Masuyama labeled works of male-male romance as “knabenliebe,“ a German word we can translate into English as pederasty; the Japanese equivalent of the word was likely lifted from Taruho Inagaki and his 1968 book 少年愛の美学 (Shounen-ai No Bigaku) [41]. When one breaks down the apparent meaning of 少年 = boy, 愛 = love, to someone with little to no knowledge of Japanese, this word may come across as innocuous or innocent; one might perhaps choose to accept Takemiya’s aforementioned interpretation of it meaning free love between young boys. Ambiguity aside, it is important to note that it typically refers to an 'appreciation’ for the 'transient beauty’ of young boys, or the idea of boys being 'loved’ by adults, in particular older men. The term has fallen out of favor for some Japanese fans as it points to and evokes pederasty and pedophilia.

As we move away from these individuals, we can begin to explore the broader landscape of shoujo manga and anime. The ’70s was also a period of growth for the television medium of anime, and from this we can observe a fan culture emerging around the intersecting mediums of manga and anime that further develop community in a growing amateur scene. From this evolving amateuer scene, several new genres, styles, and communities were born. We will begin to explore the iconic semi-yearly event Comic Market that first began in 1975, the Doujinshi or “fanzines” distributed there leading to the coining of “yaoi,” and the very first commercial magazine dedicated to shounen-ai and aesthetic “tanbi” stories, namely JUNE.

- Juli & Oscar, with special thanks to Lys for providing material

Notes: 1. F. L. Schodt, Manga! Manga!: The World of Japanese Comics (Kodansha USA, 2013), 97. 2. Rachel Thorn, “Hagio Moto: The Comics Journal Interview,” matt-thorn.com Shôjo Manga, last modified 2007, https://web.archive.org/web/20120423171300/www.matt-thorn.com/shoujo_manga/hagio_interview.php. 3. Keiko Takemiya, 少年の名はジルベール, (小学館, 2016), 16-18. 4. Ryan Holmberg, “The Fukui Ei’ichi Incident and the Prehistory of Komaga-Gekiga,” The Comics Journal, last modified January 7, 2015. 5. Takemiya, 少年の名はジルベール, 16-18. 6. Thorn, “Hagio Moto: The Comics Journal Interview.” 7. Takemiya, 少年の名はジルベール, 22. 8. Ibid. 9. Ibid, 42. 10. Ibid, 44. 11. Ibid, 43. 12. Ibid, 102. 13. Akiko Hori and Mori Kisako, BLの教科書, (有斐閣, 2020), 20. 14. Thorn, “Hagio Moto: The Comics Journal Interview.” 15. Ibid. 16. Ibid 17. Takemiya, 少年の名はジルベール, 101. 18. Ryan Holmberg, “The Fukui Ei’ichi Incident and the Prehistory of Komaga-Gekiga.” 19. Takemiya, 少年の名はジルベール, 103-105. 20. Ibid, 107. 21. Thorn, “Hagio Moto: The Comics Journal Interview.” 22. Takemiya, 少年の名はジルベール, 111. 23. Ibid, 111. 24. Ibid, 180. 25. Moto Hagio, 一度きりの大泉の話, (河出書房新社, 2021), 148-149. 26. Ibid, 150. 27. Thorn, “Hagio Moto: The Comics Journal Interview.” 28. Yuko Nagai. “NHK「ラジオ深夜便」6月2日の萩尾先生の回をテキスト化しました,” 萩尾望都作品目録, last modified 2014, https://href.li/?www.hagiomoto.net/news/2014/07/post-183.html. 29. Ibid. 30. Moto Hagio, The Heart of Thomas, (Fantagraphics, 2012), Introduction; Thorn, “Hagio Moto: The Comics Journal Interview.” 31. Ibid. 32. Moto Hagio, The Heart of Thomas, Introduction; Thorn, “Hagio Moto: The Comics Journal Interview.” 33. Takemiya, 少年の名はジルベール, 125. 34. Schodt, Manga! Manga!, 101. 35. Takemiya, 少年の名はジルベール, 196-197. 36. Ibid, 202. 37. Jun Aniwa, Aniwa Jun Taizen ( Tokyo: Meikyu 11, 2011), 43 38. Thorn, “Hagio Moto: The Comics Journal Interview.” 39. Ibid. 40. Ibid. 41. “Knabenliebe,” Collins Online Dictionary, https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/german-english/knabenliebe.

Bibliography: Aniwa, Jun. Aniwa Jun Taizen. Tokyo: Meikyu 11, 2011. Deppey, Dirk. “Mar. 27, 2007: The First Draft of History (some Revisions May Be Necessary).” Journalista – the News Weblog of The Comics Journal. Last modified March 27, 2007. https://web.archive.org/web/20120224224003/archives.tcj.com/journalista/?p=321.  According to this article, Rachel Thorn claims that “as far as [she] knows, the first boy-on-boy kiss in a commercial shoujo manga” took place in “In the Sunroom”. In this same article, Deppey’s correspondence with James Welker confirms that the kiss in “November Gymnasium “was preceded by the kiss in in Takemiya Keiko’s ‘Sanruumu nite’/’In the Sunroom’” and claims that “In the Sunroom” was “the very very first shounen-ai manga,” although he remarks that he “wouldn’t put money on” that estimate. Hagio, Moto. The Heart of Thomas. Fantagraphics, 2012.Hagio, Moto. 一度きりの大泉の話. 河出書房新社, 2021. Holmberg, Ryan. “The Fukui Ei’ichi Incident and the Prehistory of Komaga-Gekiga.” The Comics Journal. Last modified January 7, 2015. https://www.tcj.com/the-fukui-eiichi-incident-and-the-prehistory-of-komaga-gekiga/5/. Hori, Akiko, and Mori Kisako. BLの教科書. 有斐閣, 2020. Kaoru, Tamura. “When a Woman Betrays the Nation: an Analysis of Moto Hagio’s The Heart of Thomas.” Arts & Sciences Electronic Theses and Dissertations, Spring 2019. https://openscholarship.wustl.edu/art_sci_etds/1747/. “Knabenliebe.” Collins Online Dictionary. Accessed May, 2021. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/german-english/knabenliebe. Nagai, Yuko. “NHK「ラジオ深夜便」6月2日の萩尾先生の回をテキスト化しました.” 萩尾望都作品目録. Last modified 2014. https://href.li/?www.hagiomoto.net/news/2014/07/post-183.html. Schodt, Frederik L. Manga! Manga!: The World of Japanese Comics. Kodansha USA, 2013. Takemiya, Keiko. 少年の名はジルベール. 小学館, 2019. Thorn, Rachel “Matt”. “Hagio Moto: The Comics Journal Interview.” matt-thorn.com Shôjo Manga. Last modified 2007. https://web.archive.org/web/20120423171300/www.matt-thorn.com/shoujo_manga/hagio_interview.php. webDice Editorial Staff. “少年合唱の魅力：「花の24年組」として知られる漫画家・竹宮惠子氏、増山法恵氏トークショー.” webDICE. Last modified November 11, 2008. https://www.webdice.jp/dice/detail/1046/.

#examining the DNA of BL #keiko takemiya #moto hagio

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