hellfurian

[hellfurian]

Oh, I have no clue where to even start. Your level of uneducation is astounding. You are most likely going by only what you have learned, but you are basing your assumptions on your one side. I would like to enlighten you to the fact that there are more than one side to the tradition. You have absolutely no care to learn any other side, and that is your business. I do, however, and I have. If you take the time to learn and grow in your tradition, you would be in a much better place of understanding. I have provided numerous amazing sources that show that most of our ancestors were doing it, and my family even retains practices to this day! I was surprised to learn that, through my research. I would urge you to reference my sources. It will help you greatly. I apologize for your misunderstanding, and I hope you take the initiative to expand your knowledge through research.

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

Hello, I'm not sure if I was able to address your comment or not, but I will anyway. The whole reason why I wrote this was to show that Catholics (who the author makes to be as outsiders) helped build the foundation of hoodoo as we know it today. This is written from the point of view of Irish slaves. Just as conjure history does not separate each African practice into their country respectively, it does not separate European countries. But if one has studied Irish folk magical practice, you will see things that are directly included (Hyatt also recounts many Irish customs in hoodoo, as do other authors in my sources cited). Again, re-read what I wrote. It is not taking anything away from the African origins, it just illustrates that none of us are outsiders in a tradition our ancestors helped to build.

“Though he generally agrees with A.M. Bacon’s  conclusion that conjure had evolved from the religions of Africa, Puckett scrutinizes individual beliefs and materials involved in conjure, determining that African American hoodoo was European in origin and as such, it preserves the white past by keeping alive the practices that had long been absent among European Americans. “  pg. 10 “Conjure in African American Society”.

“Without a doubt nineteenth century blacks built conjure upon an African foundation. The structure they raised, however, incorporated elements far from their ancestral homeland. European and American Indian elements were as important in the practice of conjure as those originating in Africa.” “Conjure in African American Society”, pg. 51

“The mere presence of Christian belief the in supernatural helped African magic to survive by providing a foundation for its practice.”  “Conjure in African American Socitey”, pg. 57

Again, you have to research the whole of my sources together. I hope that helps!

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

Just... don't. It is very clear you have absolutely not a clue what you are talking about. You probably haven't read a single scholarly book on the subject, so I really am not even remotely concerned with what you think. The fact is, European tradition is one of the most heavily influential elements of hoodoo (see Table 3 in "Conjure in African American Society" by Jeffrey E. Anderson. I am done with you. You have empty words and straw men. You argue with emotion and blind ignorance to the subject. So I cannot, in good conscience, continue any kind of intelligent and productive conversation with you.

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

You haven't read a single thing I cited. I have more if you want. I provided links to easy reads, but many of them are books... which I know you won't read. You may skim and pretend to read them, but once you are proven wrong, you will stop, and not comment and admit you were wrong. Look at my sources, I am constantly adding more too. The Irish played a HUGE role in creating hoodoo. Can you provide a source for your assertion? It doesn't belong to anyone. Hoodoo never has. To go with my above links (some of them involve actual reading and comprehension so be warned) Here is an easy one. http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/linguistics/irish5.html, and another (added above as well) https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/lane_megan_e_200805_ma.pdf. Along with the other sources, I would call it a night and get to READING, not SKIMMING. Thanks for wasting my time!

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

Wow, that is the most ignorant and slanderous thing I have ever read. Read my sources, don't just try to be cool by saying shit you have no clue about. Stay in your lane before you assume anything about me. God forbid I actually shed light on Irish slavery, and the role it had in creating hoodoo. Shame on me! Read something before you make yourself look so useless.

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

It is quite apparent you have no interest in learning from any of the sources I cite. So please move along, your comment is based in stupidity. Thanks!

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

It is sad you haven't read a damn thing I posted. You didn't read the original article, and why I brought up the Catholic Irish, you didn't read any of the links providing scholarly sources proving it is heavily influenced by the Irish Catholics (who Cat says are "guests"). You are arrogant, ignorant, and uninteresting. It is sad you would rather take a defensive stance than expand what you may not know. I'm sorry you feel that way. Anyone else, please feel free to read the sources I cite before you ignorantly try to be rude.

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

I will provide you the link again. I know, it is hard to learn new things. I'm not sure why you are being so confrontational. It really exposes your intellect. https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/lane_megan_e_200805_ma.pdf It just so happens that a Black American religious scholar actually agrees. There is also a wealth of sources you can reference. Or, if you would like to continue your ignorant behavior. I am sure you missed the part about the Irish being slaves, but I guess you didn't actually read a single link or source I provided.

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

Garbage? Read this: https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/lane_megan_e_200805_ma.pdf

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

That's fine, bye. I don't have to explain anything to you.

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

This is cute. Did you even read the original article I was responding to? Do you know anything about Irish slavery, the Irish and African slave settlements in the Caribbean? Any Irish folk magic that has found its way into hoodoo? Any European influence that found its way into hoodoo? White Catholics brought a lot into hoodoo, and the original article diminishes that. One group that heavily influenced hoodoo was the Irish Catholics. Stay relevant, don't just rant to try to be progressive and politically correct. You have based your assessments on absolutely nothing. I can point you to quotes from the author of the original article herself that blatantly contradict her statements, but then again, you are probably not actually interested in learning anything... Good night! P.S. I don't practice hoodoo. I just hate when people try to separate communities.

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who “owns” hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this…

[hellfurian]

About Hoodoo, in reply to a highly offensive article:

Updated Aug. 6th 2014 I came across a rather misrepresentitive article on who "owns" hoodoo, and what hoodoo is. Read it here: http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooandreligion.html And here is my reply to the author:

I think some are very confused as to how hoodoo culture works and how it evolves. Perhaps this article should have been called “Hoodoo: Black Vs. White”, because it seems as though there are underlying resentments by the author toward white practitioners. First, this article completely misrepresents the atrocities of slavery at the hands of their captors (more specifically the French, British, Spanish, Dutch, Portuguese, etc.), blaming an entire continent, most of which had nothing to do with it. It seems to over-simplify the slave trade and, as with common practice, simply blames “white people”. Well, I have some news! The MAJORITY of “white” European countries did NOT participate in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. In fact, there was more than 2 centuries of Irish slavery ( white people) before Africans ever saw these shores, and it lasted well through the whole of those events, often resulting in the Irish being treated far worse than African slaves. (http://www.historyjournal.ie/irish-slavery/55-irish-slavery-main-page/106-the-irish-slave-trade.html)

Why do I bring this up? Well first, the Irish are Catholics, Catholics who have influenced parts of hoodoo as they practiced their own folk spirituality long before the Africans shared their ideas. I’m not sure if it is common knowledge, but the Irish neighborhoods lived and were housed side by side with the African neighborhoods, and (with the exception of revolts of the below poor treatment of the Irish during the Civil War Drafts in NYC) they commonly shared ideas with each other.  I have read the author's prior articles and they NEVER make message of the Irish slaves that influenced hoodoo. They often mention only “Irish sailors”. I do hope the author knows, just to reiterate, Irish were slaves for far longer than the Africans in this country, and treated far worse. I know that statement will cause some controversy, but it is simple truth.

When the Irish came here as SLAVES, their folk customs began to mix with those of Native Americans, and when the Africans came, the cultures shared their traditions and freely incorporated each others methods and lore. How is it that so much European influence has found its way into the practice? Along with primarily African influence, it was the "white" slaves who were here, that helped build the foundation of the practice, both being heavily helped by Native American existing customs. Let's face it, out of every culture here, the Native Americans were and are the only ones that have a complete system that doesn't rely on any others. ("Folk Beliefs of the Southern Negro",  by Newbell Niles Puckett perfectly illustrates this fusion of European and African idea)

*Note on update: It was originally implied that Irish slaves supplied the foundation for hoodoo. While I can say with certainty they did share their customs, they were only a part, not the whole, of the origin of the practice. That was poor word choice on my part.

“The mere presence of Christian belief the in supernatural helped African magic to survive by providing a foundation for its practice.” Conjure in African American Society pg. 57

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QHYFXDGf4Y&feature=youtu.be Next, we need to take a look at all the European mythology that has influenced hoodoo, primarily pagan, polytheistic mythology, for example, the use of the rose in hoodoo. Christianity would tell you the rose is the symbol of the martyrs. No ties to love or beauty. Does the author know where this comes from? It comes DIRECTLY from the myth of Aphrodite and Adonis of ancient Greece. Let me recount the myth: Adonis was the son of Kinyras and Methrame, and as a boy, he was wounded by a boar while hunting. Aphrodite, seeing his beauty, took Adonis to Persephone, who also fell in love with him. Zeus, to avoid conflict, divided the year into 3 parts, the first, Adonis would spend alone, the second, with Persephone, and the third with Aphrodite. Later in adulthood, Adonis was finally killed by the boar. Aphrodite ran to his side, and cut her ankle on the thorn of the rose, and the blood that fell on the white petals, turned the flower red.  This is important to remember because when you use a rose for love, you are using the blood of Aphrodite, not the blood of the martyrs as Christianity, the religion you hold to claim the practice, would tell you. This gives POWER to the plant, it gives purpose. Not simply “just because”. This is a European practice hoodoo has maintained for the whole of its history. The same goes for a lot of the herb lore in hoodoo. A lot of it is European. Little superstitious customs have also made their way into this practice from the Irish and Europeans. The horseshoe, the wishbone, candles, pictures, graveyard dirts, etc. (again: "Folk Beliefs of the Southern Negro",  by Newbell Niles Puckett) Then there are the French and European grimoires, the Greek Magical Papyri, ceremonial magic, etc. All “white” practices, all in hoodoo. When you use the practices of such widely diverse cultures, no one culture can claim it. What figures are provided that prove NO “white people” practiced and practice hoodoo? Even if 1% of hoodoo practitioners were white Catholics, that validates the practice to thousands, and it would still most certainly be considered hoodoo. When talking percentages and figures, one can’t manipulate the numbers to validate a narrow and limiting perspective. I don’t care if .5% of hoodoo practitioners are so and so, that means that 100% can start practicing it, and it would still conform to the practice without change or effect.  Instead, there is a gross over-generalization of an entire continent of people made up of diverse countries, most with 0 ties to slavery, and they are demonized as “the white man”, a slanderous term meant to be offensive. “Without a doubt nineteenth century blacks built conjure upon an African foundation. The structure they raised, however, incorporated elements far from their ancestral homeland. European and American Indian elements were as important in the practice of conjure as those originating in Africa.”“Conjure in African American Society”, pg. 51

Articles like this one instigate divide, and instigate separation, and it is not right, especially since so many of our ancestors helped to build the practice. By the article's logic, no gay man or woman, no Jew, no non- black American has any right to practice hoodoo, or call what they do "hoodoo", and those who have subscribed to the author's class have wasted their money as they have no right to call what they do “hoodoo”.  By this own logic, what the author's class teaches is conjure, not hoodoo, since it is acknowledged by the author that it has wider applications, so perhaps a rebranding is in order for this particular store? One can’t be a walking contradiction, and one can’t expect people to just sit and take this misinformation. And just for the record, I do not practice hoodoo, I practice Greco-Roman folk magic (a lot of which I have seen end up in American conjure), but I also know that hoodoo cannot be confined to the comforts of statistics, simply because it has constantly evolved over the centuries. It is only recently that someone termed the practice “hoodoo”. Before then, it gloriously danced with the entity of conjure, without fear of confines and narrow definition.  I for one am sick of this constant struggle to separate the community. While it is important to acknowledge the cultural heritage of black American folk magic, one cannot discount all other populations that helped build it.

I have great respect for the author, and I hope to meet and talk with her in person one day, I just hope that we can stop trying to instigate and validate devaluing of the practice of hundreds, if not thousands of people.

For more information on the interaction of whites and blacks in the formation of hoodoo:

"Folk Beliefs of the Southern Negro",  by Newbell Niles Puckett

"Conjure in African American Society", by Jeffrey E. Anderson

http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/linguistics/irish5.html

https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/lane_megan_e_200805_ma.pdf

For more information on Irish slavery in America:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/27/1265498/-The-slaves-that-time-forgot

http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/irish-the-forgotten-white-slaves-says-expert-john-martin-188645531-237793261.html

http://www.historyjournal.ie/irish-slavery/55-irish-slavery-main-page/106-the-irish-slave-trade.html For Irish superstition, a lot recognizable in hoodoo: http://www.the-irish-path.com/irish-superstitions.html

http://spirituality.knoji.com/irishamerican-superstitions/ For the use of French Grimoires in America read:

Grimoires: A History of Magic Books, by Owen Davies

For the Greek Magical Papyri read:

The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation, by Hans Dieter Betz

For the Myth of Aphrodite and Adonis read:

Metamorphoses, by Ovid

[hellfurian]

I am a person who is always seeking the origins of things in order to understand them better, specially when it comes to my magical practice. With a better understanding of how things work, I am able to give more power to my workings, thus producing excellent and powerful results.

So recently,...

[hellfurian]

The Fumigation with Torches. Night, parent goddess, source of sweet repose, from whom at first both Gods and men arose, hear, blessed Kypris, deck'd with starry light, in sleep's deep silence dwelling Ebon night! Dreams and soft case attend thy dusky train, pleas'd with the length'ned gloom and fearful strain dissolving anxious care, the friend of Mirth, with darkling coursers riding round the earth. Goddess of phantoms and of shadowy play, whose drowsy pow'r divides the nat'ral day:  By Fate's decree you constant send the light to deepest hell, remote from mortal sight For dire Necessity which naught withstands, invests the world with adamantine bands. Be present, Goddess, to thy suppliant's pray'r, desir'd by all, whom all alike revere, Blessed, benevolent, with friendly aid dispel the fears of Twilight's dreadful shade.

Orphic Hymn II to Nyx

[hellfurian]

Io Pan, God of the Groves, who haunts forsaken mountains! Come Phorbas, Whose Great Roar bade the Titans flee, Cities tremble in Your approach, Goat Horned God, whose coming foretells the wild’s triumph, You who are the Forest’s watchful Guardian, and the Defeater of ravenous enemies! Oh Mad and Untamed God, men’s strength withers before you, and on fine flute you call To fair nymph and shepherd, intoxicating unquenchable lust! Io Sinoeis! Through fine enchantment You revel under bright Selene, calling forth Bacchanalian guest, Who spills the gifts of Bromios for frenzied revelers! Oh nocturnal and lonely Lykaian, You are the secret movement of wolves and goats, May my fumigations and honeyed tribute draw You from shadowy places!

-Hellfurian Liontari