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Marcus Morris Interview Transcript
Marcus Morris
0’13 R: Can you give us a timeline of the Blitz campaign in England?
M: The luffwaffer bombing campaign of mainland Britain started preliminary as very targeted bombing campaign centred around the battle of Britain in the middle of 1940. There targets were predominantly military industry infrastructure, as the Battle of Britain progressed and as the luffawaffer were performing less and less effectively the bombing campaign changed, and became a campaign of multiple aims. So it moved from not just a campaign against infrastructure a campaign against military targets, though I would argue it remained that predominantly it also became a campaign of terror. And those two aims often coincided often, and often worked together in the same place. So multiple bombing campaigns of different cities would take both motivations as their starting point, to inflict damage, to inflict physical damage but also to inflict metal damage and psychological damage and both were probably as equally important.
Different Shot 01’59
02’02 R: The effects the Blitz had on Britain?
M: There is much debate around the effects of Britain, there is debate around the extent to which people were effected, to which Britain was effected, the extent to which the damage which was caused was recoverable. When we look at for instance Northern Cities those cities tended to be hit in short waves and very heavily and what we find is that the damage is extensive, the physical damage is extensive, but actually that doesn’t have the desired effect. The luffwaffers campaign is not as successful as they wanted it to be in that sense, simply because within two or three months at maximum and often quite a lot quicker the cities were rebuilt. However, what is more difficult to calculate is the mental effects, the effects on the everyday person, living under fear even if that campaign was only a few days rather than the day upon day night upon night bombing campaigns of London, that fear was still always there those memories were always there. Though the physical effects could be fixed quite quickly, I suppose this is the aim of the terror bombing, the aim of bombing civilians the psychological effects last much longer.
3’47 R: How involved was Hitler within the Blitz campaigns?
M: The Blitz was not ordered from the top, though plans had been drawn up before war there were maps which have since been found at the end of the war of different British cities including northern cities like Sheffield, maps existed Hitler may have seen theres but actually this was a luffwaffer exercise. Indeed the luffwaffer went against quite often Hitlers own aims and desires he was reluctant initially to directly bomb Britain. He wanted to keep the campaign very narrow, simply because he felt an infinity, he felt an infinity for Britain, there is a lot of arguments that actually he didn’t want to go to war with Britain and the bombing therefore was a last resort and a resort he didn’t really want to happen. This was ghurring and the luffwaffer rather than something completely up high.
Different shot 05’30
05’40 R: How well prepared was Sheffield and the people of Britain for the Blitz?
M: There was before the war a fear of the bomber, there was a fear that the bomber would always get through and that motivated when the war looked likely to prepare for war. One of the measures they put in place was air raid precautions set up in 1938 to plan for a large scale bombing raid to put measures in place that would stop or hopefully prevent as much destruction and death etc as possible. Going into the war then, they were relatively prepared but with some important points first they were only prepared for certain portions and places of within the population so a lot of it was centred on London, as it was expected it would be the primary focus of the bombing campaign which it was. A lot after that was left to local authorities so if you look at the local authorities across the country they prepared for bombing campaign in their own way, some a lot more successfully and purposefully than others. Different cities therefore were more or less prepared for the bombing campaign even then there were issues. So for instance the most important civilian way of avoiding death was shelter, but the shelter that was provided the Morrison shelter only worked if you had a garden, the majority who were effected lived in city centres without a garden, if you look at northern cities back then affected Manchester Sheffield Leeds Hull the areas that were predominantly been dropping in terms of civilian areas were areas of large scale tersest housing, where you couldn’t have a shelter. At the start of the war the British air crash measures were simply not developed enough across the country, the most obvious case the anti air craft guns, most of those which were available would cause more damage to the civilian population or to the town or city than to the luffwaffer. Quite often a large number of people died as much from shells dropping on them than from German bombs.
8’35 R: Do you think Sheffield was specifically targeted because of its steel works?
M: Sheffield was a target because of its industrial heritage, because it was the centre of steel production in the country, there is no doubt about that. If you look at the targets across the country the first and foremost areas were targeted for industrial infrastructure, so undoubtedly Sheffield was picked out to be bombed because of the steel heritage. It doesn’t mean the only reason, it doesn’t mean it’s the only reason for why you would targeted a particular place the fact that it’s a large city made it a target, but first and foremost the industry and infrastructure mattered.
Different shot 10’14
10’15 R: How important were the steel works to the allied war effort?
M: The second world war was the total war, it was the war where every bit of infastructure mattered every single industry mattered it was a war that would be won by our industry. One of fore most industry would be steel, centra to armaments production, amunitions production, central to the material as such its obvious its clear that Sheffield would be targeted as being the centre of steel production. Steel was very important to war therefore it was a very important target.
11’34 R: How well did the Germans understand how important the industry was to the allied war effort?
11’35 M: The Germans had had a much better understanding than we think of our industry, what mattered, where it mattered. Throughout the 1930s a lot of reconnisance had been done, they had very recently come to light clear picturing of all the majoring industrial centres so they knew what was being produced where, and of course they knew what was important if steel mattered to them steel mattered to the allies. So they were targeting what they wouldn’t want targeting for themselves and they knew were things were, we’re becoming more and more aware as historians just how much information the Germans had, and how much information they knew, where things were placed, they had photos they knew where they were targeting.
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Neil Anderson Interview Transcript
Neil Anderson
00’22 R: Can you give brief timeline of key events of two nights of Blitz?
N: Months before the outbreak of war people started to talk about evacuation and getting the children evacuated out of the city because Sheffield was always seen as high on the German target list because of its reputation throughout the world for its steelwork production and armaments. One we got up to the war lots of public buildings were requisitioned as public air raid shelters, 10,000 of Anderson shelters were distributed to the Sheffield population then the first outbreak of war was soon as the phoney war because there wasn’t a mass of air attacks and gas attacks on people. But then, into 1940 Hitler started to begin air campaigns on Britain and London was hit and then other key cities were hit such as Liverpool and Coventry before Sheffield and I suppose they were the key events and then obviously Sheffield Blitz happened December 12th and 15th of 1940.
2’03 R: What effects did the Blitz have on the people of Sheffield?
N: Certainly I have come to the conclusion that the raid was a more terror raid to terrorise the Sheffield population, I had no idea until I started my research of how widespread the bombing had been on Sheffield there had hardly been a suburb which hadn’t been hit because I was always let to believe that they were here to hit the steelworks and I thought if that was the case why weren’t all the steelworks put out of action for a length of time, you know why where the Germans bombing places like Totley and Dore which were miles away from the East End? You know surely the target couldn’t of been that bad.
3’01 R: Leading onto that, do you think this was a more people terror attack than a steel work attack?
N: Well, in our research we found original German bombing maps of Sheffield and though the steelworks were down as targets they were down as secondary targets, the primary targets were hospitals, schools, university buildings, railways you know as it to really terrorise the population as really the opposite seems to have happened. It seem to have really made the people of Sheffield more determined than ever to get behind the war effort, I know Sheffield was held up as an example by the then Prime Minister Winston Chruchill as an example of if you are facing this type of bombing look to Sheffield in how you will react and recover from it.
3’59 R: What areas of Sheffield were most badly effected?
N: To bombing hit virtually every suburb of Sheffield, in terms of casualties I think one of the biggest areas, the City Centre was very badly hit obviously the city centre you know there’s not a lot of people you know there’s loads of the key department stores which were all raced to the ground like the moore was completely decimated. But in terms of civilian population, Devonshire green the big park that was a big community back to back housing that there was mass causalities on there. It was one of the biggest loses of life even though there was over 2,000 people killed or wounded over it was very spread out that was one of the biggest concentrations. And also the maples building that was big 7 story public house/hotel that received a direct hit that was the single biggest losses of life. But in terms of the bombing it was right across the city, and them when they came a second night it was more concentrated on the east end but again there were no steel works which were put out of action for any length of time, so it wasn’t the kind of bombing that was expected.
Different shot: 6’08
6’10 R: How well prepared were the people of Sheffield for the bombings?
N: I think they were as prepared as anywhere really, I think at that point we were ready for invasion I think that also was one of the biggest things errr because the idea was that the Germans wanted to win air superiority and the plan was to invade and the fact that they were already in Paris you know they were in a few miles of the South coast. Houses were prepared all the kind of cellars had you know structures to Shelter people bombing and air raid shelters were widespread and distributed, there were scores of public air raid shelters around the city. But I think in many respects you speak to a lot of people and because of there being so many air raid warnings and not any bombing a lot of people had become very ‘barsay’ about it. I have spoken to a lot of people who have said you know we were sick of going to and paying for the cinema and then half way through the air raid warning would go off we’d leave and then the air raid attack wouldn’t come and a lot of people said we are just going to stay and watch our film. I think this is one of the first times that the air raid warnings went off at 7:00pm and within a few minutes they heard the sound of anti aircraft fire British guns which hadn’t been heard before because this was the real thing. But generally people were prepared they were just quite blarsay because there had been so so many false alarms over the months.
Different shot: 10’10
10’18 R: How well did Sheffield recover from the Sheffield Blitz?
N: I would say in terms of many cities bomb site became a feature for years after, places like say Atkinsons department store on the moore which is still there, probably only surviving independent store from that era which is still here that place was raced to the ground. That place took a full 20 years to be rebuilt so they didn’t open store till 1960 but in terms of the recovery effort and the public it was all coordinated through the central library on surrey street and they had kind of scores of council officials in there if you’d lost loved ones if you’d lost your house if you’d lost gas or electricity they were the people to see. Because you know there were thousands, nearly a tenth of the city’s population made homeless it was that widespread, there was thousands of people who came there to get help and stuff. Apparently people were very calm and collected but a lot of people went into rest centres which were set up around the city in kind of schools and stuff so a lot of people that were made homeless they were moved into places like that and a lot of people opened up their homes to relatives or strangers until their houses were rebuilt. I know that there were scores of builders and joiners who came in from all around the regions to help, I spoke to people out in Chesterfield who were all working in Sheffield to help start to rebuild the city. But obviously, it took months years to get back on its feet, as the bombing was that wide spread. And I think that’s one of the tell tale signs that you can see today, I was amazed how little there was to mark the Blitz.
00’18 (second clip) R: What evidence is there you have seen to show the Sheffield Blitz was more a terror campaign on the people than on the steel works?
N: Mine is just another theory, but it seems for me, I just thought you know the surely the targeting isn’t that bad, apparently it was a very clear night and they did hit the armaments factories on the second night they came. But I think for me the bombing maps we found, it would make sense the way they were bombing was similar to how they were in other places so it just seemed to be a logical theory that it seemed to be more of a terror raid.
01’24 R: How crucial were the steel works to the allied war effort?
N: Pivotal, on all accounts. I think one of the main things that Sheffield made were crank shafts for the spitfire engines, it was a key drop hammer that we had here in Sheffield. And apparently if that would have been wiped out that would have significantly impeded the British fight back. But you know they were making so many things, parts of planes, parts of ships, tanks just so much. And you kind of forget that it was actually the women who were working in them because the men were out fighting the wars so it was the kind of women of Sheffield we were actually working doing the shifting to make all these happen so you know there was just so many thousands of people employed in these massive steel works.
02’30 R: Did those involved in the steel industry understand that they could potentially be targeted?
N: I would say very much so, but I think things like the Blitz unless like even if air raid sirens going off I think they had to keep working, I think if only bombs were actually dropping then they would be taken to an air raid shelter. I know quite a few women who I’ve spoken to who have worked in the factories that they said they had to work through the air raid sirens and keep production up. But no they were very much aware of the hazards involved.
Different shot 04’13
04’21 R: How well did hitler understand that the Sheffield steel works were important to the allied war effort?
N: My guess is, it would make sense that Sheffield was way high up on Hitlers hit list, I think the whole made in Sheffield brand was well known right across the world. And it was certainly known, even in WW1 we were often one of the errr one of the strap lines for Sheffield was ‘armour to the country’ and I know there will have been quite a few from what I understand German reconnaissance in the UK in the 1930’s to look at key cities so, I think it was widely known how important Sheffield was in the production of armaments.
Different shot 6’33
6’52 R: asking his theory of whether it was steel works or terror raid?
N: Certainly my months, probably years of research and talking to scores of people has definitely, errr, I would certainly go with the theory of that it was more of a terror raid to actually terrorise the people of Sheffield. Just knowing the bombing they have done on the places and I think you know the sheer size of you know these armament factories and the massive cluster down the east end and the fact that they didn’t knock one of those out significantly when they had the capacity to you know it certainly leads me to the theory that it was more a terror raid. In terms of my research it’s not finished yet, we are very keen as a part of the ongoing research that there is a lot of luffwaffer paper work in the Bunderzine archive in Berlin that we are keen to actually go in and have a look at and get more evidence from the German side. In terms of their records and what they were working to, so you know in terms of a theory it might change in the coming months but that’s ongoing research which we are leading into.
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Overall Documentary Reflection
First things first, I have really enjoyed the topic I chose for my documentary. I think ultimately that was always going to be key to enjoying the module, and I am really happy I chose the Sheffield Blitz. The research process for the proposal was very interesting as I had to find several primary sources I never even knew existed until I began the research, this increased my interest in the documentary even more. With the research proposal being a success, I was able to use all the primary sources to my advantage, for example to German Bombing target map that became the key moment in our documentary answering the question of why the Blitz happened. Furthermore, after the research process the actual filming was very fun too. After doing the useful excursion tasks of filming people for short interviews like Millie as mentioned below, and doing small audio tasks it aided the documentary in showing us how to do the basics of filming which when we went to interview historians really helped and make us look professional. While there has been difficulties in equaling out work load as partners, it has been a learning curve for me that I can work in partners and has made me evolve as a student that can work with people now and not just be an independent worker as I was before. In terms of the editing process, whilst the start was very frustrating getting the hard drive configured to the Mac system and learning the certain tools on final cut pro as I got into it I began to enjoy it and it felt like an achievement seeing what we had done each day. The main thing I would of done differently was, give Alex more responsibility with tasks and get him to do them quicker such as the archive footage task, and I would of liked both of us to have started editing the film earlier. While we did have a reasonable time to edit the documentary, as both of us had another coursework hand in at the same time (2 days before) it put added pressure on us both which I feel like may have reflected slightly in our editing of the documentary making it slightly more rushed. All in all, it has been a good experience, and has helped develop my skills in historical film making.
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Week 27
Within this week, as it is the final week before the submission me and Alex have mainly been touching up on transitions and last minute songs. Our main task this week has been getting the narration done and put onto the documentary. After only a few replies from our job post on the voice over websites, I decided to ask my friend who goes to the Manchester Drama School if he knows anyone with good voice over experience, he got me in contact with his girlfriend Alice. After I messaged her she was instantly on board, and within a few days me and Alex had wrote out a script and organised a audio recording session with Lisa and Sam and invited Alice in to do the narration. The narration was a success she took on direction well from both me and Alex and Lisa. I was skeptical at first as I have previously mentioned in the narration blog post me and Alex previously wanted a male northern voice, and ended up with a female voice. However, it worked out very well, she was very experienced and followed the script well. Me and Alex finally put the narration on the documentary and it flowed well. Tomorrow, as it is the deadline we will just be touching up our transitions and showing parts of the Documentary to get her opinion.
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Week 26
In the last week of Easter me and Alex traveled back to Manchester to begin the long editing process of the film. Starting from 10 everyday till 4, we began figuring our way through the technical system of final cut pro and finally were on a roll with things. Once we got into it we found it rather fun, we would use Lynda.com if there were any issues, Alex was a lot better with the technical tools than I was. Our aim was 4 minutes a day to finally get our 20 min documentary by the end of the week. We also towards the end of the week began posting jobs on voice over aritst and talent pages searching for a voice over artist.
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Week 25
Whilst we now had the majority of footage, I had to go and film my great Grandad. This was a very good experience, not only to film him but just generally to get a detailed account of such an experience from the Blitz. As a 93 year old, it was amazing to hear his detailed account and the memory he still holds today from it. I got a variation of shots of him, and made him repeat some points which I felt like he had not gone into detail enough about, but also points which I really wanted him to go emotionally deeper into. We got some great footage of him saying how bad the war was and how a few of his friends had died. It was a great experience, and I feel really gave some emotional depth to the documentary as ultimately there are only a few survivors of the Sheffield Blitz and the Second World War in general now.
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British soldier and Canadian sailor enjoying a cigarette.
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Soviet paratroopers’ drill over Moscow, 1940s (via here)
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Week 24
Within this week we were asked to reflect work with partners, as I previously mentioned it has been a good experience for me working as a partnership as it has made me understand that my ideas are not always the be all and end all. However, it must be noted that unfortunately as the filming process was carried out, it seemed I began to take on most of the work. I did 80% of the filming, the interviews with Chris, the b role, the interview with my Great Grandad, and transcribed all of the interviews. I arranged all of the interviews, I thought of most of the visual ideas, but I did leave the jobs of archival footage to Alex. Whilst I asked him numerous times to find footage send it me and email round for rights, it was only until we started fully editing that he emailed them which I had to help him with and at that point it was too late to get the footage as the Yorkshire Film Archive had quoted us with a £50 which we obviously were unable to pay. As a result we had no archival footage to use, this could of been avoided if he had send off the requests for footage earlier. However, it still has been a good experience working as partners, I just feel it is hard to fully get another person to work at your pace, and then both get credited with the same mark?
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Week 23
After the location issue with Chris last week, I took it upon myself to email the Sheffield Local Archive to hire out one of their rooms to do the interview in and also get the vital German Archive bombing maps out also for Chris to explain and point at the targets. Cheryl the leading archivist was very helpful and let out the room for us. I was the only one interview Chris this time, it took around 3 hours and we had a great interview, the setting was much quieter and a lot more less rushed which I wanted, not the mention we had the vital map with us too. It was a great add to have Chris talking about the map and showing us on camera all the target points, it emphasized exactly what we wanted to show within the film that the Sheffield Steel Works were the main target in the Sheffield Blitz. At the end Cheryl also gave me the rights to many of the photos on the Picture Sheffield website to use within the documentary which was a great bonus also.
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Week 22
Within this weeks filming, Alex traveled to Sheffield to film Chris Corker, our steel industry historian. We began filming the Sheffield City hall scene which I have previously mentioned in the scene blog post. The filming at the City Hall went as planned and we got an additional shot of the ‘Sheffield Steel Women’ memorials which was a added bonus. We then proceeded to the Sheffield Hallam University to begin the intended interview. However, when we got there and began filming the battery on the camera began to run low, we then took the decision to stop the interview and film it another day when the battery was full and we were in a better interview location. The location was noisey and with the battery running low, I did not want to waste an excellent interview with Chris in such a location. He was very happy to meet again and film another day, so we did so.
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Week 21
Within this week, as I was already back in Sheffield I went and filmed on my own to get some b role for the documentary. As previously mentioned in the story board post, I had a good list of filming locations from the film ‘The full Monty’ which largely helped me with specific points in Sheffield to travel to and get the best scenic shots of the city. While rather time consuming travelling around Sheffield all day, I was fortunate enough to get a day of full sunshine and blue sky, this gave me some excellent colour visuals on the film and made the shots look as we intended them to.
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Week 20
Within these next few weeks we had been set on the task to do the filming for the documentary. Prior to filming I had emailed several Historians from the University of Sheffield and asked if they would be able to participate in the film. While most said it was not their specialty, we were forwarded onto Chris Corker who I mention in my previous post. As he specializes in the industrial history of Sheffield, we were very lucky to have him on board as he would be perfect for the knowledge on the Sheffield industry. We had secured an interview with him later on in the process. Within this week however, Me and Alex traveled to Sheffield to interview Neil Anderson who is the leading writer on the Sheffield blitz and had written a number of books on the event. I had also previously emailed him. When we got to his office, we set up the camera (Alex the night before had written out the questions) and I began asking him the questions. He was reasonably good however many of his answers were surprisingly filled with ‘ermms’ and mumble which was rather irritating in the editing process. Nonetheless, it was great to get the first interview in the bag and have Neil on board who is very notable in the Sheffield Blitz research area.
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Week 19
While we were set to create one scene within our film and show on the blog, we were unable to film this week. However, we have thought about the scene and how we would go about doing it. The scene would be when one of our Historians Christ Corker, is showing the current day bomb damage on the Sheffield City Hall. Within this scene, we would want Chris on the steps of the city hall, firstly to introduce where he is standing and what the building is he is showing but then to show on the buildings pillars where the bomb damage was and to point to the damage. Then we want him to point to the back of the pillars (which are smooth with no damage) to show the audience the contrast and true impact of the bomb damage which can still be seen today. Within this scene, we will have the camera on the tripod and most likely do a pan across the city hall square before starting on Chris who will introduce the building. We aim to show through the scene the rawness of the blitz and despite most people forgetting that it ever happened, even today on the famous Sheffield buildings such as the city hall there is still a memory of its occurrence with the bomb damage.
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Week 18
Within this week, I began thinking of story board ideas for the documentary. As the film is set in Sheffield, I thought to help get visual ideas I needed to think of famous films which were filmed in Sheffield. Danny Boyles ‘The Full Monty’ instantly sprung to mind, the film set in Sheffield had various shots which were not only visually great of the view of Sheffield but the places they were set within the industrial district of the city also gave ideas of where to go and film. I therefore when drawing up the story board put the location lists into googled and sketched out the locations I would like to film. This not only helped me to sketch out the story board it gave me a easy list of locations to go and film when we were ready to film in Sheffield.
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Week 17
Discussion of working with partners, at first I was very wary of working in a partner as I usually like to have my own way of doing things. However, within this class my usual opinion on group work has changed, I get on very well with Alex which helps us when working together not only that he does come up with good ideas for our documentary and is always interested in my point of view too. As times I do wish he would come with more of his own ideas rather than just agreeing to mine all the time but all in all he is a pleasure to work with.
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