ilioskai

[ilioskai]

Well yeah I wasn't going to "hyperfixate" on how stupid these takes are, because you have a right to say whatever u want about any pairing.

You do not, however, have a right to repost artwork. Credit through water marking isn't a thing. Crediting the artist doesn't matter, most artists do not want their art reposted, especially not on a HATE POST for what they drew. That is like the MOST well known rule in fandom.

And example didn't need to be posted. None of this needed to be posted. Cut it with the fucking entitlement and learn to be respectful to artists.

Honestly, people who like ShiIta give me the creeps. I know not all of them, but most of them seem like ... they are only into the ship for some weird kink of seeing Itachi submitting to someone in a humiliating way.

We don't even really get to see Shisui as a character, he is more like a plot device.

ShiIta shippers seem to fit into one of two categories:

- either they are REALLY into the idea of Itachi being submissive, and "Shisui is even MORE powerful than Itachi" - it's all about dom/sub fantasies and seeing Itachi being humiliated and controlled,

- or they like ItaSasu on the down-low but are ashamed to ship it because "they're brothers," so they try (unsuccessfully) to project the same intense dynamic onto Shisui. "I will protect you at all costs," because Itachi is suddenly innocent and weak, and so on. Despite the fact he's been an accomplished killer since 4 years old.

It doesn't help that most of them also seem to be obsessed with Itachi bottoming, and with hating on Sasuke (he's portrayed as an annoying brat who hates that Shisui is "stealing" Itachi, or like a weird third wheel who lusts after them and who Shisui ropes in as his new "pet".)

As with anything involving Madara/Orochimaru/etc. and Itachi. There is always that undercurrent of Itachi submitting.

Speaking of, there is a disturbing and significant overlap between ShiIta shippers and people who fetishize Itachi, Shisui, or both being raped and tortured by Danzo, that I will not get into right now.

Artist unknown.

It's strange how this pops up in both the fanfiction and artwork, how almost EVERY time you see ShiIta artwork, Itachi is suddenly turned into this seductive sex kitten waif who's super feminized and has lost all of his personality. In the fics he just lets Shisui walk all over him, like, "Ohhh I live to worship you *pops on cat ears and a maid outfit*."

Art by xii_itachi on Livejournal with the description, "Itachi's doing it for Shisui."

It's so bizarre because Itachi is not feminine or submissive AT ALL. He doesn't act that way in the scenes with Shisui. He doesn't act that way with anyone, even his own parents or the Hokage. Even when forced by the situation to capitulate (like with the massacre) he does so while meticulously maintaining some degree of control, as a protector and leader.

Shisui may be older and a stronger Shinobi, but Itachi is more intelligent, outranks him (Clan Heir), and has an uncompromisingly dominant/controlling personality. Even going so far as to threaten his own father at the age of 13. He says himself that he is arrogant and hates to lose, but doesn't everyone have their flaws?

To me it really seems like the ShiIta ship comes from a place of wanting to control and even abuse Itachi. Like he needs to be broken because he ... what? Is too strong? Too noble? Maybe because some people think the way he is written makes him overpowered, so that's why he needs to be taken down a notch, or because they don't agree with the actions he takes, that he needs to be "punished for his crimes."

Did they not see that he already learned humility through the end of his arc? Or do they just completely disregard his character growth during the war?

They almost always turn around and claim that the reason they ship it is because Shisui and Itachi have an intense romantic love. Based on what? A couple of scenes of them shaking hands and clapping each other on the back?

I don't buy it. That is no justification for the way they warp the portrayal of Itachi.

Comparing this to ItaSasu content in which Sasuke is submissive, feminine, innocent, etc. makes no sense. Itachi takes after his father, who, as clan head, holds a very dominant position in society and serves as a model of strength.

Itachi is phenotypically masculine. Yes, he has superficially androgynous features like long eyelashes, but his physiology shows that he has high levels of testosterone - "hunter" eyes, a very deep voice, a strong jaw, heavy musculature, tall stature, competitiveness, a gift for strategy, etc.

Sasuke is the spitting image of his mother, he takes after her in mannerisms and behavior, and is repeatedly mistaken for a female.

Sasuke is an innocent person in need of protection. He is not a particularly strong or experienced shinobi, a prodigious strategist, or someone who holds high social rank. He is phenotypically feminine in canon. He has big doe eyes, baby fat on his face, pale skin, a tapered jaw, a slight frame, small stature, etc.

His entire story arc is driven by the "damsel in distress" trope, for both Naruto and Itachi. He is shown to have a particularly nurturing personality, especially toward animals and people who are vulnerable (freeing Suigetsu, Karin, and Juugo.) He submits to Itachi willingly and readily.

Which makes sense, because Itachi is his protector. That is his role but also his life's purpose. If the clan had lived, Itachi would be leading it. Their people depend on his strength and authority for survival.

This is why the trend of Itachi being feminized and put into humiliating sexual positions is somewhat infuriating. Itachi symbolizes not just the strength of the clan, but the safety of those that depend on it (like Sasuke.) He is responsible for protecting others and leading them. He is a dominant male and the head of the Uchiha.

When he is torn down and disgraced (especially sexually) that undermines the entirety of the clan itself. It also undermines Sasuke's safety and security, the honor of their family name, and their standing in society at large.

I am not equating femininity with humiliation. The ways that femininity is expressed in these types of ShiIta artworks and stories means that it is associated with humiliation, degradation, and debasement in them.

I sort of suspect that the people who ship this sort of thing in which Itachi is very feminine and submissive, or enjoys degrading sexual acts inflicted by a stronger male, is a way of expressing their hatred of Itachi as a character.

The odd thing about this is most of them also seem to have hatred for Sasuke, and someone identifying with Sasuke but disagreeing with Itachi's choices is usually the cause for them hating Itachi's character.

I think it's possible then that this hatred for both characters comes from a place of wanting to defile things that are pure. That impulse to, when seeing something or someone that is too good, to bring them back down to their level.

Itachi and Sasuke are both shown to be pure of heart, and Itachi especially is shown to have an almost preternatural level of strength that he derives from their bond with one another. Most of us would not have the strength of will or character, nor the skill (disregarding the fantasy aspect) to do what Itachi does throughout his story arc to protect Sasuke. To kill your entire clan and your own parents at 13, then immediately set off alone to join a high profile terrorist organization, convince the person you love the most in the world to hate you and seek your death, meticulously plan your own death at his hands, then have to stave off a debilitating terminal disease with experimental therapies for eight years while enduring a profession centered around lethal combat, all to make sure you die correctly ...

Anyone can die for someone they love. Dying is easy. Utilizing every skill at your disposal to make sure you stay alive for nearly a decade of torture for someone is not.

I get the feeling some people see Itachi's strength and instead of going, "Hey, this is a Mythical level of love and dedication, something usually only expressed in the realm of classic tragedies - it's archetypal and thus inspires me to uplift myself."

They go, "This is unrealistic, I don't see this behavior in my limited personal life - he needs to be cut down to size."

[ilioskai]

dude using people's fanart (especially uncredited) to shit on a ship is actually super fucking rude and uncalled for

Honestly, people who like ShiIta give me the creeps. I know not all of them, but most of them seem like ... they are only into the ship for some weird kink of seeing Itachi submitting to someone in a humiliating way.

We don't even really get to see Shisui as a character, he is more like a plot device.

ShiIta shippers seem to fit into one of two categories:

- either they are REALLY into the idea of Itachi being submissive, and "Shisui is even MORE powerful than Itachi" - it's all about dom/sub fantasies and seeing Itachi being humiliated and controlled,

- or they like ItaSasu on the down-low but are ashamed to ship it because "they're brothers," so they try (unsuccessfully) to project the same intense dynamic onto Shisui. "I will protect you at all costs," because Itachi is suddenly innocent and weak, and so on. Despite the fact he's been an accomplished killer since 4 years old.

It doesn't help that most of them also seem to be obsessed with Itachi bottoming, and with hating on Sasuke (he's portrayed as an annoying brat who hates that Shisui is "stealing" Itachi, or like a weird third wheel who lusts after them and who Shisui ropes in as his new "pet".)

As with anything involving Madara/Orochimaru/etc. and Itachi. There is always that undercurrent of Itachi submitting.

Speaking of, there is a disturbing and significant overlap between ShiIta shippers and people who fetishize Itachi, Shisui, or both being raped and tortured by Danzo, that I will not get into right now.

Artist unknown.

It's strange how this pops up in both the fanfiction and artwork, how almost EVERY time you see ShiIta artwork, Itachi is suddenly turned into this seductive sex kitten waif who's super feminized and has lost all of his personality. In the fics he just lets Shisui walk all over him, like, "Ohhh I live to worship you *pops on cat ears and a maid outfit*."

Art by xii_itachi on Livejournal with the description, "Itachi's doing it for Shisui."

It's so bizarre because Itachi is not feminine or submissive AT ALL. He doesn't act that way in the scenes with Shisui. He doesn't act that way with anyone, even his own parents or the Hokage. Even when forced by the situation to capitulate (like with the massacre) he does so while meticulously maintaining some degree of control, as a protector and leader.

Shisui may be older and a stronger Shinobi, but Itachi is more intelligent, outranks him (Clan Heir), and has an uncompromisingly dominant/controlling personality. Even going so far as to threaten his own father at the age of 13. He says himself that he is arrogant and hates to lose, but doesn't everyone have their flaws?

To me it really seems like the ShiIta ship comes from a place of wanting to control and even abuse Itachi. Like he needs to be broken because he ... what? Is too strong? Too noble? Maybe because some people think the way he is written makes him overpowered, so that's why he needs to be taken down a notch, or because they don't agree with the actions he takes, that he needs to be "punished for his crimes."

Did they not see that he already learned humility through the end of his arc? Or do they just completely disregard his character growth during the war?

They almost always turn around and claim that the reason they ship it is because Shisui and Itachi have an intense romantic love. Based on what? A couple of scenes of them shaking hands and clapping each other on the back?

I don't buy it. That is no justification for the way they warp the portrayal of Itachi.

Comparing this to ItaSasu content in which Sasuke is submissive, feminine, innocent, etc. makes no sense. Itachi takes after his father, who, as clan head, holds a very dominant position in society and serves as a model of strength.

Itachi is phenotypically masculine. Yes, he has superficially androgynous features like long eyelashes, but his physiology shows that he has high levels of testosterone - "hunter" eyes, a very deep voice, a strong jaw, heavy musculature, tall stature, competitiveness, a gift for strategy, etc.

Sasuke is the spitting image of his mother, he takes after her in mannerisms and behavior, and is repeatedly mistaken for a female.

Sasuke is an innocent person in need of protection. He is not a particularly strong or experienced shinobi, a prodigious strategist, or someone who holds high social rank. He is phenotypically feminine in canon. He has big doe eyes, baby fat on his face, pale skin, a tapered jaw, a slight frame, small stature, etc.

His entire story arc is driven by the "damsel in distress" trope, for both Naruto and Itachi. He is shown to have a particularly nurturing personality, especially toward animals and people who are vulnerable (freeing Suigetsu, Karin, and Juugo.) He submits to Itachi willingly and readily.

Which makes sense, because Itachi is his protector. That is his role but also his life's purpose. If the clan had lived, Itachi would be leading it. Their people depend on his strength and authority for survival.

This is why the trend of Itachi being feminized and put into humiliating sexual positions is somewhat infuriating. Itachi symbolizes not just the strength of the clan, but the safety of those that depend on it (like Sasuke.) He is responsible for protecting others and leading them. He is a dominant male and the head of the Uchiha.

When he is torn down and disgraced (especially sexually) that undermines the entirety of the clan itself. It also undermines Sasuke's safety and security, the honor of their family name, and their standing in society at large.

I am not equating femininity with humiliation. The ways that femininity is expressed in these types of ShiIta artworks and stories means that it is associated with humiliation, degradation, and debasement in them.

I sort of suspect that the people who ship this sort of thing in which Itachi is very feminine and submissive, or enjoys degrading sexual acts inflicted by a stronger male, is a way of expressing their hatred of Itachi as a character.

The odd thing about this is most of them also seem to have hatred for Sasuke, and someone identifying with Sasuke but disagreeing with Itachi's choices is usually the cause for them hating Itachi's character.

I think it's possible then that this hatred for both characters comes from a place of wanting to defile things that are pure. That impulse to, when seeing something or someone that is too good, to bring them back down to their level.

Itachi and Sasuke are both shown to be pure of heart, and Itachi especially is shown to have an almost preternatural level of strength that he derives from their bond with one another. Most of us would not have the strength of will or character, nor the skill (disregarding the fantasy aspect) to do what Itachi does throughout his story arc to protect Sasuke. To kill your entire clan and your own parents at 13, then immediately set off alone to join a high profile terrorist organization, convince the person you love the most in the world to hate you and seek your death, meticulously plan your own death at his hands, then have to stave off a debilitating terminal disease with experimental therapies for eight years while enduring a profession centered around lethal combat, all to make sure you die correctly ...

Anyone can die for someone they love. Dying is easy. Utilizing every skill at your disposal to make sure you stay alive for nearly a decade of torture for someone is not.

I get the feeling some people see Itachi's strength and instead of going, "Hey, this is a Mythical level of love and dedication, something usually only expressed in the realm of classic tragedies - it's archetypal and thus inspires me to uplift myself."

They go, "This is unrealistic, I don't see this behavior in my limited personal life - he needs to be cut down to size."

[ilioskai]

...no? I have nothing to explain? I was never commenting on that scene, trying to prove sns was canon, or trying to convince u to ship them. I commented about the databooks, you implied I was making shit up and asked for the proof, so I posted what I was referencing. That's it. You're free to hate sasunaru I really don't care. I just don't like being called a liar :)

[ilioskai]

I legit never said any of that, I fully don't know what ur talking about. I mentioned what the databooks said, the user I tagged basically said I was making it up, so I posted the screenshots. Thats it. I'm not trying to make anyone believe that Sasuke is gay or "prove" a sexuality. I literally just posted a page from the databook

[ilioskai]

This is quite literally the most bad faith interpretation I have ever seen. Data books aren't satire, they're literally just facts. And it IS canon that Naruto started to unwind his heart, are you like, denying canon fact? "...?!" Is for dramatic effect, that's just how language works lmfao. It's like a gasp—to show shock or a startling revelation. I'm not saying the kiss wasn't a joke, but the anime DRAGS that shit and its natural that people care about it. I won't even get started on him remembering it before he almost died, very much proving that it WAS important between him and Naruto.

I've also never denied that Sasuke cared about Sakura, so I didn't play shit. All I said was it's fact that next to the kiss scene it said that Naruto unravels Sasuke's heart, he thinks the kiss was on purpose, and he remembers what it tasted like, you accused me of blowing smoke, so I showed u the panels. Cheers!

[ilioskai]

@chhote-pandit

While I'm really loving the middle schooler doing a joker impression on reddit thing you've got going on, I am genuinely sorry that you are unable to type the words "naruto first data book" into Google and click the literal first link, gently brush your thumb across the screen to scroll, and read Sasuke's page. Im happy to help, though, don't worry