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Free Solo 徒手攀岩
用爱纪念已逝的登山者
弗兰克·秦 安·克西克 乌里·���特克
接下来这位嘉宾是一位徒手攀岩奇人 Our next guest is a free soloing phenomenon, 有请亚历克斯·霍诺德 please welcome Alex Honnold. 有几点我不明白 Here is what I don't understand. 哪怕是再小错误 哪怕轻微失足 One little mistake, one little slip, 你就会命丧崖底 and you fall and die. 看来你很了解攀岩 Yeah, I mean, uh, you seem to understand it well... - 是啊 - 是啊 - Yeah. - Yeah. 我认为任何人 And I feel like anynoby 都有可能在某一天死去 could conceivably die on any given day. 而徒手攀岩让人感觉更直接 更真实 Soloing makes it feel far more immediate and much more present. 不用绳索攀岩的感觉会不一样吗 Does it feel different to be up there without a rope? 不用绳索攀岩 When you're climbing without a rope, 很明显 后果会更严重 it's obviously like much higher consequence, 要求更高��专注度 much, much higher level of focus. 是一种完全不一样的体验 You know, it's a whole different experience. 不是说我会一直把自己逼到极限 So it's not like I'm just pushing and pushing and pushing 直到有不好的事发生为止 until something terrible happens. 我不会从那个层面去考虑 I don't look at it, like, with that perspective. 但也许这就是为什么这对我来说很危险 But maybe that's why it's dangerous for me. 也许我靠得太近了 Maybe I'm too close to it 无法分辨我是不是正快速地爬向悬崖 and I can't tell that I'm speeding towards a cliff. 好了 Okay. 我喜欢把风险和后果区分开 I like to differentiate between risk and consequence. 在我进行这些高难度的徒手攀岩时 You know, when I'm doing these hard free solos 我喜欢把风险 I like to think that the risk, 就是把我会摔下去的几率看得很低 you know, the chance of me falling off is quite low 哪怕这个几率十分之高 even though the consequence is extremely high. 这也正是 And that's kind of like 徒手攀岩吸引人的一个地方 one of the appeals of free soloing, you know, 把一件看似既困难又危险的事 to take something that seems difficult 做到让人有安全感 and dangerous and make it feel safe. 那你认为 So, do you think that, uh, 作为一名攀岩者 这对你的恋爱生活 being a rock climber has been a positive or negative 起到的是积极还是消极的作用 for your dating life? - 我的恋爱生活吗 - 是的 - My dating life? - Yeah. 我认为总体来说是消极的 I think, uh, I think overall it's been a negative. 我总是到处游历 而且我住在车里 Um, I just travel too much and I live in a car. 我们来聊聊 Let's talk through some of 你以往的一些攀岩活动 the climbing adventures you've had. 历史性的徒手攀岩 月华拱壁 The historic free solo climb, Moonlight Buttress. 攀登那里的时候 大家都觉得 When I did it, it was like, "Oh," 那是历史性的一刻 挑战了极限 you know, kind of groundbreaking, kind of extreme. 但对我来说我一直觉得很简单 也很安全 But for me it always felt quite easy and pretty secure. 但你也并没有因此而止步 Well, that wasn't where you stopped, 因为在那之后的第二次挑战 because that next challenge then 是徒手攀登半圆顶 was free soloing Half Dome. 半圆顶对我来说是迈出了巨大的一步 Half Dome was a huge step for me 因为它比所有我攀登过的山峰都要大两倍 because it was twice as big as anything I'd ever soloed. 在这里徒手攀岩十分危险 Free solo is so dangerous 世界上只有不到百分之一的攀岩者尝试过 that less than 1% of people who climb attempt it. 亚历克斯完成过数千次徒手攀岩 Alex has done more than 1,000 free solo climbs, 但都没有这一次的难度高 but none were tougher than this one. 有些地方我会害怕 I got quite scared in some places, 然后会开始有点慌 and then you start to panic a little bit. 最后就不得不退回去 And then you have to, like, reel it all back in. 下一次徒手攀岩准备去哪呢 What is next in free solo climbing? 还不知道 我想攀登酋长岩很多年了 Well, I don't know, I mean, I've thought about El Cap, 但每一年我看着它 我就在想 like, for years and every year I look at it and I'm like, "真的太吓人了" "That's really scary." 我从来没真的想过要攀 Um, well, I've never even wanted to really, 或者说我一直想要攀 但是 or I've always wanted to but then 我总是会想 "太吓人了" I've always been like, "That's too scary." 我要去的是世界上最美丽的山谷 I'm aiming towards the most beautiful valley on earth. 我记得小时候去约塞米蒂 I remember coming to Yosemite as a little kid 我爸总是会在车尾箱后放一个小冷藏箱 and my dad would always have a little cooler in the back of the car, 把饼干放在冰牛奶里 and have our cookies in the cold milk, 我们会坐在隧道观景点的石板上 and we'd sit on these slabs above Tunnel View, 那是约塞米蒂最壮观的景色 which is, like, the most epic view of Yosemite. 只要你看到酋长岩 你会很惊讶 As soon as you see El Cap it's like, 真是太刺激了 "Oh, there it is, pretty exciting." 酋长岩是地球上最令人赞叹的岩壁 El Cap is the most impressive wall on earth. 我很喜欢待在车里 Yeah, I mean I love, I love being in the van. 现在我可能觉得在车里特别舒服 I probably feel extra comfortable in the van now 因为我在车里已经住了九年 because I've lived in it for nine years. 我的第一辆房��� 其实是偷家里的面包车 My first van, well, I actually stole the family minivan. 十九时我爸过世 我就辍学了 My dad died when I was 19 and I, I quit school. 当时有一点人寿保险 There was some life insurance. 只够我勉强过活 I had just enough to dirt bag. 六年前 我住在沃尔玛的停车场里 Six years ago I was living in a Walmart parking lot 每天花八十八美分来吃晚餐 and spending eighty-eight cents on dinner every night. 住在车里很好 但是 Living in a van is great but, you know, 有时候你会觉得有个浴室就好了 at a certain point it'd be nice to have a bathroom 至少能洗澡 and have, like, a shower at least. 我听说你现在有女朋友了 So you have a girlfriend now, I heard. - 有这个发展趋势 - 有这个发展趋势 - Hmm, trending towards one. - Trending towards? 她很非常支持我 Hmm, I mean, she's very supportive about, 做自己想做的事 like, you know, you have to do you. 再看吧 Yeah we'll, we'll see. 不过我这一生中可能会有很多女朋友 But yeah, there probably will be plenty of girlfriends in my life, 因为当涉及到大型攀岩 you know, in terms of, like, big climbing, 终生成就这些的时候 在攀岩和女朋友之间 lifetime achievement deals, where you're just like, well, 我想我永远都会选择攀岩 think I will always choose climbing, over, over a lady. 至少目前是这样 At least, you know, so far. 你攀了几次酋长岩 How many times have you climbed El Cap? 可能有四十多次吧 Probably like 40 something maybe. - 你单人徒手攀岩过吗 - 没有 没人试过 - You ever free solo? - No and nobody has. 你为什么还没去攀呢 Why haven't you done it yet? 你看看它 Um, look at it, like, I mean, you know, 想想就觉得很可怕 think about it, it's freaking scary. 我不知道 从2009年起 I don't know, so I mean I've thought about this 每一年我都想要去徒手攀登 since 2009, like, each year since 2009, 我想 "就是今年了" I've been like, "This is the year," 但每一年我攀的时候 我就会想 and each year I climb it and I'm like, "今年还不行 太难了" "This isn't the year, like, this is fucked," you know. 但问题是我永远也不会满足 So I'm like, "Uh." But the thing is I'll never be content, 除非我至少付出了努力 unless I at least put in the effort. 因为如果我真的努力了 但还是觉得 Because, like, if I do all the work and I'm still like, "实在太难了" "This is messed up," 那也许这件事就不适合我 then maybe it's just not for me, 也许该交给下一代人 maybe its future generation, you know. 或许适合一个没有任何生活目标的人去挑战 Or maybe just somebody who has nothing to live for. 几年前 当我想到酋长岩时的时候 When I thought about El Cap years ago, 岩壁上到处都是问号 there were question marks all over the walls. 比如我不了解这个陡坡 It's like I don't know about this pitch, 我不熟悉那个陡坡 I don't know about that pitch, 我不知道这块奇怪岩石的存在 like I don't know about this particular slab, 所有的这些事在我看来都很不可思议 there are all these things that seem pretty crazy to me. 如果我最终的梦想是徒手攀登酋长岩 If the ultimate dream is to solo El Cap, 那我需要好好计划一张地图 then I need a good map of what that will take, 我需要心里���个谱 知道哪些是最难的部分 you know, like a, a mental image of what the hard parts are, 它们都在哪里 where they are, 为了克服它们我必须做的事 what they will entail. 如果要实现这个目标的话 If I'm going to do it, 自由攀岩线路似乎是最好的路线 Free Rider seems like the best route. 你好吗 哥们儿 What's up, dude? 其实我不如直接把它 Oh, actually, I might as well just rack it 挂在我的安全带上 straight onto my harness. 你来领头还是我来 So, do you wanna lead the Freeblast or do I? 就像以前一样 I feel like we should do what we did 还是你来领头吧 before which would be you lead the, yeah, 你在前面 you lead the Freeblast. 就是说我能走多远走多远 So, basically I'll just try to take it, like, as far as I can. 没错 Yeah. 汤米刚到这里 So Tommy just got here 他们准备去攀自由攀岩线路 and they're going up Freerider. 好的 Okay. 我会先试着拍山的这边 I'm just gonna try to shoot this pitch 然后拍横渡段另一边 然后 and the traverse pitch and then 我会像个疯子一样立在那里 I'm gonna jug out like a maniac. 好的 Okay. 我们有足够长的绳索完成这些吗 Do we have enough line up there to do all this? - 有的 - 好 - Yeah. - Okay. 和汤米·考德威尔一起攀登酋长岩 The idea of going up on El Cap with Tommy Caldwell 是为了亲身体验整条路线 用视觉感知它 is to get a feel for the route and just visualize it. 去感受哪里可怕 哪里不可怕 To see what feels scary and what doesn't. 天啊 Oh, God. 看看那些首次攀登时留下的绳子 Look at those fixed ropes the first climb. 从小我就把汤米当做我的英雄 Tommy's been a hero of mine since I was a kid. 虽然小时候我没有在自己房间挂过他的海报 I didn't technically have posters of him up in my room as a kid, 但其实也差不多了 but it was like the same deal, you know, 我那时候觉得 "汤米就是英雄" where I was like, "Tommy's the man." 汤米向人们展示了徒手攀登酋长岩的可能性 Tommy really showed what was possible, free climbing on El Cap. 汤米探索了这块岩壁的每一个层面 Tommy is the one that explored every aspect of the wall. 他攀登酋长岩的大部分路线 And most of the routes that he's put up on El Cap 还没有被其他人采用过 因为这些路线 haven't been repeated because they're, 难度太大了 they're basically too hard. 之后 他止步于黎明岩壁 And then, ultimately culminated with the Dawn Wall 这是个持续数年的项目 which was his multi-year project. 这可能是世界上最难爬的岩壁 I mean possibly the hardest big wall in the world. 数年来我一直向往着酋长岩 I've been obsessed with El Cap for years. 酋长岩极其雄伟 深不可测 El Capitan is unbelievably huge, kind of unfathomably huge. 陡峭的花岗岩壁高达975米 It's 3,200 feet of sheer granite. 看着它 你会觉得这是不可能的 Looking at it, it doesn't seem right, 你没理由能爬得上去 it doesn't seem like you should be able to climb it. 我明白为什么亚历克斯着迷于这里 I understand why Alex is obsessed. 酋长岩吸引着世代的攀岩者 El Cap has obsessed generations of climbers. 1958年 沃伦·哈定第一次尝试攀登这里 I think it was first climbed in 1958 by Warren Harding, 他们共花了46天登顶 但是用了16个月 and it took them 46 days over 16 months 因为他们无法连续无休地攀登 because they couldn't do it continuously. 他们必须在花岗岩中打下螺栓 They had to drill bolts into the granite 再把自己拉上去 and pull themselves up. 自那之后 And then ever since then, 这里成了全球攀岩者们关注的焦点 it's been the center of the rock climbing universe. 我花了二十年攀登酋长岩 I've spent 20 years of my life climbing El Cap 但我绝不会不要绳子徒手攀岩 but I'd never do it without a rope. 那样一点错都不能犯 There's no margin for error. 想象一场奥林匹克角逐金牌的比赛 Imagine an Olympic gold medal level athletic achievement, 拿不到金牌 你只有死路一条 that if you don't get that gold medal you're gonna die. 徒手攀登酋长岩差不多就是这样 That's pretty much what free soloing El Cap is like. 你绝不能犯错 You have to do it perfectly. 今天我要模拟许多不同的场景 Today I am playing through a lot of different scenarios, 我要考虑步法 考虑身体的姿势 so thinking about the moves, thinking about the body position, 以及必须要考虑 and more than anything just thinking about 没有绳索时 what it would feel like to, 攀岩是什么感觉 to be in that position without a rope. 有绳索时你能靠它做很多事 There are a lot of things that you can physically do on a rope. 天啊 Oh, God. 一旦想到要把绳索拿开 你会觉得 But then the idea of taking the rope away, you're just like, 我不知道自己能否信得过那个小小的支点 I don't know if I'd wanna trust that little foothold. 天啊 Oh, my God, 我的脚好痛 我好累 手也痛 my feet hurt so bad and I'm so pumped and my hand hurts. 要累死了 I just feel pooped. 我们快到极限了 We're kind of getting worked. 如果你数年来都想着一件事 When you've been thinking about something for years, 你在真正告诉别人前 that's a long time to be, 这个想法会在你心里 like, sort of considering an idea without, like, 酝酿很久 really talking to anybody about it. 汤米这种人尤甚 Especially someone like Tommy. 我在攀岩时 When I was climbing, like, 耐力到达极限 或是横越岩壁时 up the endurance corner and across the traverse, 朝下看 我会觉得 I was just looking down thinking about, - "老兄 这好可怕" - 我不知道 - I was like, "Dude, this seems so scary." - I don't know. 你会觉得很危险 但也很美 That part is just so exposed and it's pretty. 那种时候 See, that part again is like, 你至少还有绳子支撑 at least you have holds though, you know. 但是徒手攀岩时 你会遇到的情况是 The Freeblast slabs have like several moves where it's like, 你的生命只能靠着一个支点 your whole life just depends on one foothold, you know. 徒手攀岩就像是一项怪异的个人活动 Soloing is like such a weird personal activity. 你绝不会提及徒手攀岩的事情 You never talk about soloing projects. 我自己徒手攀岩 从不告诉别人 I mean, I've done all my soloing without telling anybody, 因为我不想有额外的负担 because I don't want any extra pressure. 攀登酋长岩的想法 The idea of climbing El Cap, 让我一直受到采访与提问 obviously I get interview questions about it all the time, 比如会问 "你真的想做那件事吗" like, "Oh, would you like to do that?" 我就会说 And I've always been like, "不会 不确定 再说吧 谁知道呢" "No, well maybe, we'll see. You know, who knows?" 但实际上 你心里想的是"一定会" But like in the back of your mind you're like, "Yes, for sure." 我曾经很挑食 I used to be like a super picky eater. 我在19还是20岁的时候 When I was like 19 or 20 or, well, 还是20到24岁的时候 决定开始 between like, 20 and 24, I basically decided that I had 吃蔬菜 然后就 to start eating vegetables, and then sort of, like, 逐渐���开始 systematically introduced 让自己吃菜 一次吃一种 myself to vegetables, like one at a time, 这个方法很有效 which worked pretty well, 现在我几乎什么都吃 now I pretty much eat anything. 我三四年前开始就不吃肉了 I stopped eating meat maybe three or four years ago, um, 主要是为了环保 mostly for environmental reasons. 我不再吃肉后就好像陷入了 Then once I stopped I also kind of got into 不能再吃肉的情况 the ethics of it a little bit more. 我们来看看最后成品如何 We'll just see how this comes out. 肯定有很多人 Yeah, I mean there are plenty of folks 觉得这看上去很糟 who probably think that this is, like, terrible. 我吃的是辣椒罐头和鸡蛋 I'm eating, like, canned chili and eggs. 长大以后 我不喜欢吃奇怪的食物 Growing up, I mean, I didn't like eating weird foods, 我不喜欢臭虫 I didn't like bugs, you know, 我曾像个瘾君子一样孤僻 I was just like a total tweeker. 我当时很内向 I guess I was quite a shy child. 有点阴暗 Bit of a dark soul, I think. 用忧郁来形容可能更贴切 Maybe melancholic is the word. 我记得自己很喜欢 I remember really liking to play with 玩乐高积木 电脑游戏 然后 my Legos and play computer games and, 我开始攀岩后 uh, and then obviously once I started rock climbing 便常去攀岩健身房了 I was going to the climbing gym all the time. 但我没有很多的兴趣爱好 But I didn't really have a whole lot of hobbies or interests. 我一点都不酷 I definitely wasn't cool, you know. 我在萨克拉门托长大 I grew up in Sacramento 我读的高中 and the high school I went to, I was, uh, 有国际文凭大学预科课程 in an international baccalaureate program, 可以说我们都是聪明孩子 so we were all sort of the intellectual kids. 因此 做个书呆子 So, in a way it was fine to be 也没有问题 因为 sort of a dorky loner cause, you know, 整个项目都是围绕着学习 the whole program was focused around that. 有段时间 There was definitely a time 我开始更多地在户外攀岩 when I started climbing outside more and I was just 开始公路旅行和露营 starting to road trip and go to campgrounds, 但我很胆小 不敢和陌生人讲话 but I was too afraid to talk to strangers. 所以 我做了很多徒手攀岩 So, I was doing a lot of soloing, 或者说就是一个人攀登 or just a lot of climbing by myself just 因为我谁都不认识 because I didn't know anybody 我也不想和其他人说话 and I didn't wanna talk to anybody. 棒极了 我超越了自己 It's freaking good, I've outdone myself. 加了辣椒确实不一样了 Spicy chili really adds something. 小时候我就喜欢爬树 As a kid I just love climbing trees 爬楼 到处玩 and climbing buildings and, like, playing on things. 我在这里上学时 And when I was going to school here 这里的屋顶我都爬遍了 I was also climbing on all the roofs and stuff here. 是的 就是 Uh, and, uh, yeah. 其实当着这么多高中生说话我有点害怕 It's actually kind of intimidating talking to groups of kids. 上高中时 我就很怕 Like, when I was in high school I was mortified 站在全班人面前 of standing in front of the class. 但是慢慢就熬过去了 But, like, you kind of get through it and, 最后你就会觉得越来越适应 like, eventually you feel more and more comfortable. 大概吧 I don't know. - 有人提问 - 请说 - There's a question. - Um, yeah. 把自己的兴趣爱好变成职业 How do you feel about being famous, just for, like, 并因此而出名 你有什么感受 turning your hobby into your career? 我感觉棒极了 I mean, I think it's the best thing in life 做你最喜欢的事 to be able to take the one thing 做出成绩来 you love most and have it, like, 然后还能凭这个养活自己 work out that you can make a living that way. 现在我攀岩还有收入 真是太好了 请说 You know, so it's nice that I now get paid to do that, yeah. 你有多少钱 How much money do you have? 我钱包里大概 大概有 I've got, I've got, I've got probably like 四十美元吧 40 bucks in my wallet, you know. 我感觉差不多足够了 Um, but no, like, a, a fair amount. 大概 差不多 Um, like, like, you know, say, like, 跟较成功的牙医收入差不多 a moderately successful dentist 大概吧 or something, probably. K老师请说 Mr. K? 亚历克斯 你能不能说说你的基金会 Alex, could you talk about your foundation a bit 以及你在做的事 and what you're doing? 大概是四年前吧 Yeah, so, I started a non-profit, um, 我创办了一个公益基金会 I guess maybe four years ago. 我们一起看看这段视频 Let's watch this piece of video 你们就会对他这个基金会有所了解 so you're gonna get a little taste of that. 因为攀岩我有机会到世界各地去 Climbing has allowed me to travel all over the world, 大大增长了见识 which has really opened my eyes to 知道了世界上其他地方的人们是怎么生活的 how the rest of the world lives. 我看到很多人 I mean, I see all these people, 地球上大概有十亿人 I mean there're like a billion people on Earth 没有生活用电 without access to power. 所以我成立了基金会 尝试着去 And so I started my foundation sort of as an attempt to, like, 平衡这个世界 balance the cosmic scales. 通过这个基金会 So, I've been giving, maybe, like, 我每年都把大概三分之一的��入 a third of my income every year through the foundation to, 捐给环保公益组织 like, environmental non-profits. 比如离网太阳能这样的项目 I mean, so, like off-grid solar projects, things like that, like, 不仅能帮助人们摆脱贫困 也对地球有益 things that lift people out of poverty, but also help the Earth. 下车吧 Ah, you get out. 我在西雅图签收时遇到了萨尼 I met Sanni, book touring in Seattle. 从那以后我们就开始约会 And then we just have been hanging out ever since. 这是我们在拉斯维加斯的第一次约会 I think, I think this is our very first date in Las Vegas, 我们一起完成 and I think we're climbing, 一次简单的多节式攀岩 like, a very easy multi-pitch together. 我带她走了趟非常高的线路 Um, you know I just took her up this big tall route because then 我知道这会令她震撼 I kind of knew it would blow her mind. 她也攀岩吗 Is she a climber? 萨尼会一点吧 Um, Sanni's like a little bit of a climber. 她刚刚开始 She, she's just starting 但我不会把她定义为登山者 but I'd hardly characterize her as a climber. 你看我们正前方 You see straight in front of us, 有块心型岩石 there's like an depression that looks like a heart. 是的 Yeah. 左边的就是自由攀岩线路 To the left of that, that's Freerider. 这是峡谷全貌 This is like the whole valley, like, 我们现在在这条高速上 we're driving in this highway. 从这儿到这儿一圈都属于峡谷 And then this is, like, the valley loop from here to here, 主峰都在这儿到这儿之间 the main rocks are all, like, between here and here. 好的 我应该好好读一读这本书 Okay, oh, maybe I should read this. 不用 No. 去年十二月 亚历克斯在西雅图做一个演讲 Alex was giving a talk in Seattle, in December last year. 我对他一点儿都不了解就直接去了 I didn't know anything about him and I showed up. 等等 这照片里有一半你都穿同一件衣服 Wait, you're wearing the same shirt in half these photos. 我知道 I know. 亚历克斯 Oh, Alex. 因为没人帮我整理衣柜 Well, because I don't have anybody to help me with my wardrobe. 那时我把书拿给他签名 就给了他电话号码 Oh and then, when I got my book signed, I gave him my number. 像跟朋友开玩笑一样 然后就发展下去了 Which was sort of a joke with a friend but then evolved. 我觉得他很帅 但也太实诚了 I just thought he was really cute but also brutally honest, 不过这点很吸引我 but I'm really drawn to that. 看这个 真是危险的平衡 Whoa, look how precariously balanced it is. 他很有趣 也很怪异 But he's also just a funny guy, he's weird. 古怪的家伙 但是我觉得很有意�� You know, a weird dude, and I find it interesting. 我们在这树上做个树式动作[瑜伽]吧 Oh, we tree pose on the tree? 它不会晃 It's not wobbling. 晃得很厉害 你说什��呢 It's totally wobbling, what are you talking about. 为了你我才上去的 Just for you. 我等着呢 I'm waiting. 很好 Okay. 受不了被蚊子咬的时候 When you start getting eaten by mosquitoes, 你就可以开始爬了 feel free to just start climbing. 把保护器戴上 Just keep the Grigri on. 我在下面等吧 I'll wait. 好吧 你高兴就行 Okay, whatever you're comfy with. 跟女朋友一起住在车上太棒了 Having the girlfriend in the van is awesome. 她娇小可爱 让这里变得有生气 I mean she's cute and small and, like, livens the place up a bit, 又不会太挤 doesn't take up too much room. 生活各方面都变得更好了 I mean, it's, pretty much makes life better in every way. 亚历克斯 你拉紧我了吗 Alex, you got me tight? 这太难了 This is nerve-racking. 放亚历克斯下来时 When I was lowering Alex, 我看着他下到最后一部分 I was watching him come down the final section and the rope 绳子穿过保护器 从我手上滑出去 went right through the Grigri, right through my hands, 滑出保护器 他就摔到了地上 and right through the Grigri and he dropped to the ground. 都怪我 我没看好绳子末端 It was my fault that I didn't watch the end of the rope. 当时就想 "天啊 我干了什么" It was just like, "Oh, my gosh, what have I done?" 拍X光没看出什么问题 The x-ray didn't show much, 但造影扫描后 but then they took the CAT scan and then they 他们说有两处压缩性骨折 said it was, like, two compression fractures and. 他们没注意下面的 But they only focused on they didn't focus on the lower. 事情发生后 我想着跟她分手的 Right after it happened I wanted to break up with her. 我就想 "这对我的攀岩太不好了" I was like, "Oh, this is bad for my climbing." 但她说 "那样真会让你生活变得更好吗" But she said,"Is that really gonna make your life any better?" 我一想 "也许不会吧" I was like, "No, probably not." 这个会有点不舒服 This is gonna feel a little uncomfortable. 我跟他说 I said, you know, "如果我们能度过这次难关 以后就都不怕了 "I think we can move past this and I think you could have it all. 你可以有个固定的女友 也可以继续攀岩" I think that you could have a steady girlfriend and climb." 呼气 Exhale. 结果后来压缩性骨折没有很严重 As it turns out, compression fracture isn't too serious. 他们说我可以继续攀岩 They said that I could climb 注意止痛治疗之类的问题就行 just be careful about pain management and all that stuff. 就是���动时骨头会有点声响 But it's just a little bit rattling. 我当然知道 有些人从很高的地方 Because I definitely know some people 摔下来 没摔死 who have fallen super far and survived or, 被树枝穿透 也没事 好好的 like, gone through a tree and sort of been okay. 现在我就想 "不行 我可能不行吧" And now I'm like, "I don't know, like, I don't think I'd be okay." 想着徒手攀岩摔下来 And so I imagine falling free soloing 或者从五十米高摔下来 or something from 50 meters up, I mean, 我的身体肯定会因冲击力大而粉碎 I realize that my body would just explode on impact. 2012年我第一次来这里 In 2012, I was here for the first time 是在我去约塞米蒂攀岩之前 and it was right before I went to Yosemite for the season, 那是我在约塞米蒂表现最好的一次 and that was like my best Yosemite season ever. 你说什么 亚历克斯 What was that, Alex? 我说你已经爬过半了 I said you just passed halfway and, uh, 绳子状况还很好 the rope's actually looking pretty good now. 这座山峰挺不错的 Yeah, pretty nice rock. 我觉得摩洛哥的攀岩 I think the climbing here in Morocco, 对于登顶酋长岩是个很好的训练 it's good training for El Cap. 这会让他得到锻炼 It's gonna make him strong, 有助于让他穿过丛山 it's gonna get him good at moving through the mountains, 会让他有舒适的感觉 it's gonna make him feel fit. 跟着亚历克斯穿行在丛山间 Flowing through the mountains in the ways 这种感觉让人着迷 that you do with Alex is addicting. 他对待危险的态度让你觉得自己是无敌的 His attitude towards risk, it makes you feel kind of invincible, 很有情绪感召力 which is emotionally appealing, 但对我来说这并不理智 but for me I don't think it's the smartest thing. 和亚历克斯攀岩 像是某种恶习 Climbing with Alex is, it's like a vice in a way. 就像抽着烟又喝着酒 It's like smoking cigarettes with beer or something. 我并没有真的想这么做 但有时 It's like, I don't really wanna do it but I just, 我就是放任自己去做了 like, let myself do it sometimes 因为感觉还不错 because it's kinda nice. - 做到了 兄弟 - 没错 -Yeah, buddy! -Yo! 能给我读下你今天的日记吗 Can you read me your journal entry for today? "七点钟方向 一段下行险路 It says, "Bey wall 7C+, one fallen crux, 两次肌肉过度疲劳肿胀 需增加锻炼" two pumped, need more fitness." 你会在日记中写 Do you ever put things like "看到了有生以来见过最大的桧树" "Saw the biggest juniper tree of my life"? 不 不会写在攀岩日记中 No, not in the climbing journal. - 会写想我家狗吗 - 不会 - Miss my dog. - No. 或者写想妈妈了 诸如此类的 没有吗 And my mom. I don't know, none? - 没有 - 没有 好吧 - No, no. - No. All right. 吉姆会在中途跟大家下山 Alright, Jim's gonna follow you guys down partway, 然后克里斯会在溪谷的谷底 Clair's gonna pick you guys up at 通往营地的地方接你们 the bottom of the gully going into the base. 好 Okay. 然后我们会在山崖上拍摄 And then we'll be shooting on the wall. 一旦我们超过你们 So, once we pass you guys, 你们就收拾设备徒步走到山顶 you guys wrap and then hike to the summit basically? 没错 Yeah. 我和吉米合作了十年 Jimmy and I have worked together for 10 years. 我们攀岩过的地点遍布世界 We've climbed all over the world. 我们还要三人锁在一起吗 We are doing the triple link up too, right? 等我们到达约塞米蒂时 会像切恩说的 I mean, by the time we get to Yosemite we're gonna be "像耕牛一样铐在一起" as Cheyne says, "Yoked." 吉米组织的队伍全是专业登山者 The team that Jimmy assembled are all professional climbers. 是拍摄攀岩影片最合适的团队 The best possible crew for this kind of thing. 某种程度上我会觉得"这简直棒极了" And so in a way, I'm like, "This is kinda awesome." You know, 好像我要和我所有朋友一起攀岩 it's kind of just like I get to go climb with all my friends. 麦基 我们应当安排人在这儿 Mikey, we should put someone right here 因为探出身子时 险峻的线路能尽收眼底 because if you lean out you can see the entire freaking route. 那就把机器安在一百米外的那里 Then let's just put the 100 meter there 往下四百米在这儿 and the 400 footer here. 放两台 Doubled up. 从亚历克斯开始挑战约塞米蒂起 I've known Alex since he pretty much 我就认识他了 在2008或2009年 started climbing in Yosemite, 2008 or 2009. 我为亚历克斯拍摄过多次徒手攀岩影片 I've filmed Alex a handful of times, free soloing. 后来我们在南美洲 And then we've also spent a couple of winters 一起度过好几个冬天 together down in South America. 相处时间就这样越来越多 So, uh, we, the time's added up. 我现在经常和他在一起 Uh, I spend a lot of time with him now. 我有点害怕 因为我不希望亚历克斯出事 So, I'm scared because I don't wanna see anything happen to Alex. 这也是我差点 I mean, it's one of the reasons that 拒绝这份工作的原因之一 I almost said no to this job, and, I mean, 我觉得吉米也经历过这个过程 比如 I think Jimmy went through the same stuff of being like, "我们真的要参与其中吗" "Do we really wanna be part of this?" 对于拍摄徒手攀岩这件事 I've always been conflicted about shooting a film 我一直心存矛盾 about free soloing 因为它太危险了 just because it's so dangerous. 很难去想象你的朋友亚历克斯 It's hard to not imagine, your friend, Alex, 去做非常危险的徒手攀岩 soloing something that's extremely dangerous 你还要拍摄下来 and you're making a film about it, 这也可能为他带来过度压力 which might put undue pressure on him to do something, 害他在画面中坠崖身亡 and him falling through the frame to his death. 我们必须克服这点 And we have to work through that 去想明白哪怕最糟糕的情况发生 and understand that what we're doing is something that 我们也只能接受 we can live with even in a worst-case scenario. 有趣的是 It's a funny thing, 稍微知道一点攀岩的人会说 people who know a little bit about climbing, they're like, "他说没问题 他是安全的" "Oh, he says he has it, he's, he's totally safe." 而非常了解攀岩的人 And then people who really know exactly 听后却会大惊失色 what he's doing are freaked out. 我父亲总是说"我不希望你再去攀冰 My dad was always like, "I don't want you to go ice climbing. 我不希望你再去徒手攀岩" I don't want you to free solo," you know. 那就别做 我想你父亲以前经历过 Just not, I wonder if your dad had been like. 他像我一样大的时候 When he was my age, 有二十还是三十个朋友死在山里 he had had like 20 or 30 friends that had died in the mountains. 现在我也到了那种时间点 And now I'm at that point 有三十或四十个朋友死在山里 where I've had, you know, 30 or 40 friends that have died in the mountains. 这么多吗 That many? 是的 前阵子我刚刚算过 Yeah, I counted them a while ago. 也不全是朋友 也有圈内人 I mean, like not friends but people in our community. 没错 绝对有了 Yeah, people, yeah, yeah, totally, 比如凯尔·登普斯特和斯科特 like Kyle Dempster and Scott recently. 有些是我见过的人 就觉得 天呐 People that I have met, yeah, I'm like, no, yeah. 目前还没有非常非常亲近的朋友 I haven't had anybody die who I was, like, 在攀岩过程中丧生 really, really, close to yet. 我不知道 I don't know. 我想视徒手攀岩为人生大事的人 I think everybody who has made free soloing 都已不在人世 a big part of their life, is dead now. 约翰·巴卡尔是徒手攀岩的先行者 John Bachar was a pioneer of so-called free solo climbing, 上星期 五十二岁的约翰 he fell to his death this past week 坠崖身亡 at the age of 52 from a cliff. 很遗憾要播报此条消息 And we're sorry to have to report on the death 美国登山者肖恩·利里逝世 of U.S. Climber Sean Leary. 肖恩在犹他州身亡 尸体几天后才被发现 Sean was killed in Utah and was found a couple of days ago. 德里克·赫西在约塞米蒂谷攀岩 Derek Hersey was climbing in Yosemite Valley. 尸体于星期六早上被发现 His body was found Saturday morning. 赫西同往常一样进行徒手攀岩 Hersey climbed, as usual, alone without ropes. 大部分人都在追求极限 Most people that are pushing the limits, 他们的心态是 they have this mentality of "管他呢 该来的终究会来" "Screw it, whatever happens, happens." 我认为徒手攀岩训练了他的思维 I think all the soloing he's done has trained his mind. 他不像其他人那样受到情绪的影响 He doesn't get emotionally affected by it the way that a lot of people do. 说不清楚原理是什么 And not knowing about the science of that 很可能是过去经历的产物 is that's probably a product of your past 并不仅仅是遗传学问题 more than it is just a genetic thing. 人们对我有很多推测 There's been a lot of speculation about, like, 推测我如何对待恐惧 how I deal with fear 如何做到徒手攀岩 and, like, how I'm able to free solo. 他们会说"依我看他就是个追求刺激的人 People are just like, "Oh, well, he must be a thrill seeker. 他一定有什么缺陷" There must be something defective." 因此当有人联系我去做核磁共振时 So when a writer contacted me about doing an MRI, 我觉得去做下检查 I thought it's kind of cool just to go 看看究竟发生了什么 也挺好 and get an MRI and, like, see what's actually going on. 扫描大脑 看看脑内结构是否正常 You know, scan your brain and then see if it's all there structurally. 检查马上开始 We're gonna start the task now. 每看到一幅新图片时 Remember to press the button every time 记得按按钮 好吗 you see a new picture come up, okay? 好 Okay. 说不定结果证明我是个怪人或者别的什么 We'll see maybe it turns out I'm some kind of freak creature or something. 我的好几个前女友都说 I've had several ex-girlfriends said that 我有人格障碍 或者类似的话 I have personality disorders or things like that. 说我有毛病 That there's something wrong with me. 情绪稳定 Emotionally stable? 同意 Agree. 是否足智多谋 善于思考 Ingenious, a deep thinker? 否 Disagree. 是否常常对他人吹毛求疵 Tends to find fault with others? 某种程度上是的 Agree somewhat. 是否觉得爬陡峭的山太吓人 Climbing a steep mountain would be too scary for me? 情绪控制是否有问题 I have trouble controlling my impulses? 是否抑郁 Is depressed? 我的大脑正常吗 Is my, is my brain intact? 正常 而且有些很有意思的结果 Your brain's intact and it's, it's quite interesting. 屏幕上方的那两个点 Those little two dots that are further towards the top of the screen, 是杏仁核 that's the amygdala. 有意思的是 你的杏仁体 So an interesting thing, do you have no activation 不易被活化吗 in your amygdala? 看起来我的大脑里好像没什么动静 There's just not much going on in my brain, it seems. 你觉得我的杏仁核是根本不起作用吗 Do you think my amygdala actually just doesn't work or something? 你的杏仁核能起作用 Your amygdala works, 只是需要 it's just that it needs a much 更高强度的刺激 higher level of stimulation. 大多数人觉得刺激的东西 Things that are typically stimulating for most of the rest of us 对你来说不够刺激 are not really doing it for you. 可能我的杏仁核只是累了 Maybe my amygdala's just tired, you know, 因为这么多年来一直受着刺激 from too many years of being all gripped. 我觉得身体状态很好 但是 I'm feeling quite fit, but, 对无保护攀登而言 精神状态也很重要 there's such a mental component to free soloing. 最大的挑战是如何控制你的大脑 The big challenge is controlling your mind, I guess. 因为你不是要去控制你的恐惧 Because you're not, you're not controlling your fear, 而是要走出恐惧 you're sort of just trying to step outside of it. 不 对不起 亚历克斯 Oh, no, woo, sorry, Alex! 有些人会说要抑制你的恐惧 And when people talk about trying to suppress your fear, 我不这么认为 I mean, I look at it in a different way. 我通过一遍又一遍地练习动作 I try to expand my comfort zone by practicing the moves 来扩大自己的舒适区 over and over again. 我一遍又一遍地经历恐惧 直到不再恐惧 I work through the fear, until it's just not scary anymore. 不 Oh, no, no, no, no. 太滑了 Oh, so slippery. 但这么多年了 极限平板区仍让我感到恐惧 But, for years Freeblast has given me the heebie-jeebies. 你站在极窄的边缘上 You're standing on tiny edges, 岩石略带凹凸纹理的地方 small variations in the texture of the rock. 如果你脚滑了 手支撑不了你 If you slip, your hands can't hold you. 只有靠极小的两点支撑着不掉下去 It's just the two tiny points of contact that keep you from falling, 当你往上爬 就只剩下一个点 and when you step up, there's only one. 看上去似乎比昨天好多了 It's like, it looks so much better today than yesterday, 看着吧 but we'll see. 我大概滑落了九米 I probably fell about 30 feet. 我们在那上面结了组 萨尼帮我固定 We're up there, we're roped up, Sanni's belaying me, 然后我就掉下来了 也不知道怎么回事 and then I just fell off, I don't know. 我也不知道怎么会这样 我就掉下来了 I just, I don't even know how, I just, like, fell off. 上下转动脚踝 让我看看你能转动的程度 Show me how much you can go up and down on your own. 就这样 It's, it's like, you know. 我觉得看起来是 I think this looks to me just like - 简单的脚踝扭伤 - 好的 - your straightforward ankle sprain. - Okay. 说是脚踝扭伤 So, you know, we say ankle sprain, 但脚踝扭伤是不同程度的韧带撕裂 but more or less an ankle sprain is torn ligaments. - 好的 - 本质上是这样 - Yeah. - That's what it is. 那对徒步之类的有什么影响 So what does that mean in terms of, uh, like hiking and stuff? 如果我把脚踝固定 I mean, if I just, like, immobilize it and then, uh, - 之后徒步 - 首先 - still just hike. - Yeah, I mean, - 前几天要固定 - 好的 - you gotta' get yourself through the first few days. - Yeah. 但之后只要复健和康复治疗就可以了 But after that and it's just strengthening and rehab. 那运动会不会让伤势变严重呢 Well, and actually, can I make it worse really, through activity? 过早过度运动可能会 You could probably do too much too soon. 等等 不用放在右边 Wait, you don't need to keep that right. 虽然我内心也会担忧 I can worry as much as I want internally, 但如果他不去做的话会后悔一辈子 but if he doesn't do this stuff he'd regret it. 如果亚历克斯和我结婚了 有了孩子 If Alex and I got married and had kids, 我会更大胆地说出我的想法 I would feel a lot more willing to say what I thought about 什么风险可以接受 什么不能 what was acceptable risk or not. 他应该把鞋穿上 He should have put his shoe on. - 固执 - 固执 - Stubborn. - Stubborn. 我以为你会在走动之类的 I thought you were, you know, walking and stuff now, 以为你已经好了 I thought you're fine. 我好了 Oh, I am, but what. 医生说你应该去走走 亚历克斯 Doctors said you were supposed to push it, Alex, come on. 你不想吃西瓜吗 Don't you want some watermelon? 有个佣人帮你切西瓜可太好了 Oh, well, good thing you have a personal slave to do that for you. 是啊 有个佣人可真好 I know, I'm pretty stoked about that. 接下来是不是 不管我怎么切 All right, is it gonna be that no matter how I do this, 你都会说 "你为什么这么切" you're like, "Why did you do it that way?" 我只是想吃西瓜 I just want watermelon. 在某种程度上 我当时很想怪萨尼 I kind of wanted to blame Sanni to some extent 因为当时觉得 "算了吧" because you're just like, "Whatever." 我有七年没有受过伤了 I haven't been injured in, like, seven years 然后和这个不攀岩的女孩在一起之后 and then it's like I'm hanging out with this girl that doesn't climb 我就一直在受伤 and I suddenly start getting injured all the time. 你切西瓜像砍树一样 It's like you just cut down a tree. 医生说"积极恢复"的意思 When they say "active recovery", 不是让你到处乱走 no, that doesn't mean you're walking all over the place. 如果他不去无保护攀爬的话我会很高兴 I would be happy if he didn't free solo. 我一直很感激他不会提前告诉我 I've always appreciated that he never told me beforehand 他要去无保护攀岩什么的 that he was gonna free solo or anything. 我可能会斥责他说 "你��许去" I could come down on him and say, "You shouldn't be doing that," 然后疏远他 但疏远就疏远了 and alienate him, and, it would've alienated him 因为攀岩才是他的一切 because that's his, whole life. 我觉得当他在无保护攀岩的时候 I think when he's free soloing, 是他最能感受自己存在的时刻 that's when he feels the most alive, 是感受一切最美好的时刻 the most everything, the most. 感受最强的时刻 Feels the most. 你又怎么能从他身边夺走这么珍贵的东西呢 And how can you even think about taking that away from somebody, 我不会这么做的 you know? I wouldn't. 我能够在穿鞋和系安全带的时候 I've been able to stand on one foot 一只脚站立了 while I put my harness and my shoes and stuff on, 能做到这样也算是一个小小的胜利了 and getting' this like kind of, a minor victory. 自从受伤之后我还没穿过攀岩鞋 I haven't put on my climbing shoe basically since I did it. 还肿胀着 一碰就痛 So swollen. So tender. 不幸的是 在裂隙上攀爬全靠脚踝 Unfortunately, crack climbing is all ankle-dependent. 而自由攀岩线路是九百米的裂隙攀爬 And Freerider is 3,000 feet of crack climbing. 我的那些脚踝严重扭伤过的朋友们 All my friends that have sprained their ankles 都这么说 in serious ways have all been like, "恢复到正常至少要六个月的时间" "Oh, it's gonna be at least six months until it's normal." 如果我下个月不爬完的话 If I can't get this done in the next month 天气就会变 我就要等到明年 then the weather will change and I'll have to wait until next year. 我记得几年前 You know, a couple years ago, 他告诉我 他这辈子从来没有 I remember him telling me that he had never 意外滑落过 fallen unexpectedly in his life, 而我现在见过两次了 and now I've seen it happen twice 而且都在上个月内 in the past, like, month. 听到这样的话之后 But when you hear stuff like that, 不免就会有点担心 you start to wonder a little bit. 在他打电话给我之前的那个晚上 I had this dream the night 我做了个梦 before he called me that he had, like, 梦里他来到我家找我们 然后哭了起来 wandered into our house and asked us, and, like, started crying, 把我吓坏了 因为亚历克斯一般不会哭 which really freaked me out 'cause Alex doesn't cry. 然后他告诉我他无保护攀爬的时候摔了下来 And then he had told me that he fell free soloing and started, like, 然后给我看他的伤口 他把袖子拉起来 revealing all of his injuries, like he pulled up his sleeve on his arm, 然后骨头就这么从臂膀上掉了出来 and in my dream a bone just, like, fell out of his arm and 简直一团糟 it was all messed up. 那真的是一个特别逼真 And that, and it was this really, like, kind of vivid, 但超级奇怪的梦 but super freaky dream. 然后第二天他打电话给我 And, uh, and then the next day he called me 告诉我他把自己弄伤了 and told me he hurt himself. 你好 英格里德 Hi, hi, Ingrid. 有时候每次一个 Sometimes, one at a time. 你们好 怎么样啊 Hi, hello, how's it going? - 伙计们 - 怎么样 菲茨 - Hi, guys. - What's up, Fitz! 菲茨来了 So we got Fitz. 汤米 菲茨 你们想来刻个南瓜吗 Hi, Tommy, hi, Fitz! Are you gonna carve a pumpkin? 非常好 Nice, that's good. 这个好像有点怪 That seems off. 亚历克斯说 "我才不要刻南瓜呢" Alex said, "I want nothing to do with the pumpkin carving, "我什么都不刻 我讨厌节日" and I won't carve anything and I hate holidays." 我喜欢享受玩乐的时光 I like having fun when I have fun. 我不喜欢被别人指挥说你应该去玩 I don't like being told that it's time to have fun. 我觉得我们还得再来一点 Yeah, I think we need to a little more. 她在扭来扭去的 Whoa, she's squirming. 你能抱得住吗 I don't know. Do you have a good grip on there? 你再把那个东西杵到我的眼睛里我就撒手了 You put that in my eye again, I'm gonna drop you. 它为什么不想看我们 Why does it not want to see us? 逗你呢 我不会 Just kidding, I won't. 他没完没了的 He keeps. 你得再抱高一点 You gotta lift him up more, you need to. 再见 汤米 Bye, Tom. 你现在应该充满了恐惧啊 Oh man, you should have a lot of fear right now. 因为我能感受到很多的焦虑 Okay, 'cause' I feel a lot of anxiety. 在我长大成人的过程里 No one in any part of my family has hugged 我家里的所有人都不互相拥抱 during all my formative years. 在我差不多二十三岁的时候 I had to teach myself how to hug 我不得不教会自己如何去拥抱 when I was, like, 23 or something. 因为我就想 "好像大家都在拥抱" 'Cause I was like, "Everyone seems to hug, "我好像也应该这么去做" that seems like something I should get into," 然后我就开始练习 and then I started, like, practicing. 现在我可是挺擅长的呢 Now I'm quite a good hugger. 你看出来那个南瓜是辆车了吗 Yes. You see that the pumpkin is a van? 我看出来了 好珍贵的车啊 I did see it. That's a precious van. 那是只猫吗 Is it a cat? - 猫是我刻的 - 很不错 - I did the cat. - That's good. - 看看 - 就是我自己做的… - Look at that. - Um, I did it all by my... 说实话 它这样看着还挺好 Honestly, it does look good like this. 之前它不好看 我觉得 It looked terrible. I think, yeah. 爱这个字呢 有部分 Part of the thing with the L word, you know, 就是要说爱之类的话 is saying love and stuff, 而我这辈子 is that, like, in my entire life 我家里的任何人从来没有用过 no one in any part of my family has ever used, 这个字 you know, that word. 我妈妈从来只对我 My Mom has only spoken French 和我姐姐说法语 to my sister and I our whole lives. 她是法语老师 She's a French teacher, 所以她用法语说"我爱你"之类的话 so she says, "Je t'aime" or whatever, 而我爸爸不怎么说话 and then my dad didn't talk about anything. 查理跟谁都没有感情的羁绊 Nobody had an emotional bond with Charlie. 查理很可能有我们现在所说的孤独症 Charlie was probably what we call nowadays Asperger's. 查理的痴迷 也就是大家所说的偏执 Charlie's obsession, what everyone called monomania. 他非常喜欢旅行 He loved to travel. 他为旅行而活就像亚历克斯是为了攀岩一样 He lived to travel like Alex lives to climb. 当他没有旅行时 情况就不太妙 When he wasn't traveling, things were not good. 亚历克斯要做了点什么 Alex would do something 我们就用恶心的名字叫他 and we'd call him stupid names, "蠢蛋 别那么做" 这类的刻薄的词 "Hey, bozo, don't do it like that," just demeaning things. 当你这么小的时候通过这样了解自身价值 If you learn that about your self-worth 我觉得那个烙印是抹不掉的 when you're this big, I don't think that goes away. 我一点都不记得了 I have no recollection of that. 我没觉得爸爸贬低了谁 I don't think my dad put down anybody. 我觉得我爸爸就像一只泰迪熊 I think my dad is like a teddy bear, 但是爸爸挺抑郁的 but dad was pretty morose. 而他们俩一离婚 And then the thing is once they got divorced, 他们就都 then they both were, like, 快乐了很多 一切都很不错 so much happier and it all seemed great, 可他第二年夏天就去世了 but he died the next summer. 他没能活着看到后来的一切 It's really kind of too bad that he doesn't get to see 真是太糟了 how it all played out, 因为他对培养我攀岩倾注了那么多心血 'cause he put so much effort into nurturing my climbing. 可谁说得准 But who knows? 也许妈妈认为他阻碍我们 Maybe mom thought that he was, like, holding us back or, like, 或者说没有推动我们去释放出最大的潜力 you know, not pushing us to achieve our full potential or, 你明白我的意思吧 like, whatever, you know what I mean? 我妈常挂在嘴边的话是 "差不多就不行" My Mom's favorite sayings are, "Presque ne compte pas," 英语就是"差一点也不行" "Almost doesn't count," 或者"过得去也不行"的意思 or, uh, "Good enough isn't." 无论我做得有多好 No matter how well I ever do at anything, 都还不够好 it's not that good. 那种否定自己的无底深渊 The bottomless pit of self-loathing. 那绝对是一些单人徒手攀岩的动力来源 I mean, that's definitely the motivation for some soloing. 我们到了 Here we are. 我还是一直 So I still never, like, quietly, 不太知道你摔下来是怎样的情况 quite understand what happened when you fell, you, 你会有预感吗 like, do you even know? 应该就像是… It should be just kinda, like... 我不知道我为什么会摔下去 Uh, I don't know why I fell off, 我是说我知道我的皮肤又硬又干 but I mean I know that my skin was, like, hard and dry. 有些小雨之类的而且风比较大 It was like lightly raining kind of and like really windy. 很奇怪他说不清是什么情况 Weird he doesn't even say he knows what happened. 他说的是"我 突然我就下坠了" He's like, "I, suddenly I was falling," 而这让我挺惊讶的 因为我觉得 which kind of surprised me because I feel like 他一直都那么清醒 he's always so aware. 或者也许他并不是一直都那么清醒 Or like maybe he's not always totally aware. 亚历克斯说他徒手攀岩时相信自己有层铠甲 You know Alex talks about having this armor when he solos 我就想 作为他的一个朋友或者家人之类的 and I think as, like, a friend or a family member of him, 你也得有层铠甲 you kinda have to have that same thing. 出了那件事以后 不知什么原因 Like after that happened, for whatever reason, 它让我比一般情况更加清醒了 it kinda like waked me up more than normal. 一般情况下我就会说"他有能力" You know, normally I'm just like, "Oh, he's got it. "他那么生猛 他会没事的" He's such, he's such a beast, you know, he's gonna be fine." 但我就是 But I just, like, 对他攀岩的事感到一点压力了 am stressed out about the thing a little bit, you know? 听着 我也不想摔下来死掉 Look, I don't wanna fall off and die either, 可是挑战自己并圆满完成一件事 but there's a satisfaction to challenging yourself 是很有满足感的 and doing something well. 而当你确定在面临生死考验时 That feeling is heightened 那种感觉更加明显 when you're for sure facing death. 你不能犯错 You can't make a mistake. 如果你寻求完美 If you're seeking perfection, 徒手攀岩应该是让你最接近的了 free soloing is as close as you can get. 感受完美 这种感觉非常美妙 And, uh, it does feel good to feel perfect, 在那么一瞬间 like, for a brief moment. 我朋友们会说 "那太糟了" My friends are like, "Oh, that'd be terrible," 但如果我出了意外死了 but if I kill myself in an accident, 他们会说 "那真的太不幸了" they'll be like, "Oh, that was too bad," 但生活还是在继续 but like life goes on, you know, 他们还是都会挺好 like they'll be fine. 我跟女孩们就有很多这种问题 I mean, and I've had this problem with girls a lot, you know. 她们总说 "我真的很关心你啊" They're like, "Oh, I really care about you," 我就会说 "不 你才不呢" I'm like, "No you don't." 如果我丧命了 其实也无所谓 Like if I perish, like, it doesn't matter, 你会再找别人去 其实 like you'll find somebody else, like, that's not, 其实也没什么大不了的 that's not that big a deal. 我也不清楚 I don't know. 可能这么说有点不近人情吧 Maybe that's a little too callous. 我的脚在好转 但是还是有点肿 My foot is improving, but it still swells up a bit. 绳子 Rope! 非常经典的滑降 Pretty epic rappel. 我们就是在顺着岩壁下来 Uh, we're just commuting down the wall, kinda. 我们不过是在享受昔日好时光 We're just having a good old time. 客观来看 徒手攀爬酋长岩时 If you look at soloing El Cap objectively, 大概有六段斜坡 there are probably six pitches 最令我担心 that worry me the most. 就在离地不远处 需要做一些惊险的攀爬 Just off the ground, there's some insecure climbing. 接着就来到了第六段 极限平板 And then Freeblast, Pitch 6, 就是我之前从上面摔下来的那个 being the one I fell off of, 显然那是次糟糕的失误 which is obviously a total botch. 接着向下攀爬到中空页岩区 Then the down climb to the Hollow Flake. 然后是巨兽裂缝 And then the Monster Offwidth, 这将需要超越身体极限的超高难度的攀爬方式 which is super physical, difficult style of climbing. 当你在攀爬巨兽裂缝时 When you're in the Monster Offwidth, 你的身体会被大山不断挤压 some part of you is always being crushed in the mountain. 就像世界上最糟糕普拉提课程 Imagine like the worst type of Pilates class in the whole world, 有人在你训练时拿鞭子抽打你 somebody like flogging as you do it, 还时不时用砂纸磨掉你的皮肤 and occasionally like sandpapering skin off your body, 叫你保持姿势直到你累吐 telling you to hold the position until you freakin' vomit, 而且只要保持不住 就会粉身碎骨 and if you lose the position you die. 进入耐力角阶段 The Enduro Corner, in and of itself, 这是我徒手攀岩生涯中 would have been the most difficult part of virtually 遇到的最难的部分 any big solo I've done. 你的脚没有任何确切的着力点 Your feet aren't on any specific holds. 你的脚仅仅是依靠你手产生的拉力 What makes your feet stay to the wall is the amount of pressure 才附着在石壁上 that you pull with your hands. 你手拉得越用力 你的脚才会贴的越紧 The harder you pull with your hands, the more your feet stick. 这是整条攀爬路线中对手臂力量要求最高的 The most demanding for your arms on the whole route. 当你爬到了七百六十多米才抵达耐力角时 And you've climbed 2,500 feet to get to the Enduro Corner, 你会精疲力尽 so you're pretty fatigued. 但一直令我最担心的 But the piece that I've always worried about the most 是难点 整个攀岩最难的部分 is the crux, the hardest part. 为了通过难点 To get past the crux, 你得爬上抱石绳段或是特氟龙角 you have climb either the Boulder Problem or the Teflon Corner. 离地六百多米 2,000 off the ground, 我拴着绳子从这两个地方摔下来过很多次 each of which I've fallen off many times with a rope. 特氟龙角就像 The Teflon Corner, which is basically like 一块九十度角的玻璃 a 90-degree corner of glass, 它实在是太滑了 让我十分畏惧 which is ultra-slippery, just fills me with terror. 撑着两面石壁攀爬 Pushing against the two walls of it, 就像我的手和脚都在玻璃上 with my feet on glass, my palms on glass, 还要做一些微小的调整 and trying to make these little micro adjustments 来保持平衡 to keep my balance centered 这样才能将力量平均分配到四肢 so that I can push evenly on all four sides of it. 我脚下是762米的深渊 And then I imagine 2,500 feet of air beneath my feet, 想想就觉得这事很疯狂 you're, like, that's just a crazy thing to think about. 另一条攀爬路径是通过抱石绳段 The alternative is the Boulder Problem. 但是抱石绳段有一段三米的路径 But the Boulder Problem has a 10-foot section 简直难如登天 that's incredibly difficult. 攀登步骤十分复杂 It's a very intricate sequence. 你要让右手抓住石头的卷边 左手抓住石头边缘 You've got your right hand on a crimp, left hand on a side pole, 然后让右脚踩在石壁凹陷处 and then you put your right foot onto this dimple thing. 右手向上够到一块小的能下拉的石头卷边 Right hand goes up to a small down-pulling crimp, 左脚踩上只有盘子深浅的凹陷处 left foot goes into a little dish, 然后左脚向上移开 靠着大拇指撑住 and then you drive up off the left foot into the thumb press. 这是整条路径上最难坚持的地方 That's the worst hold on the entire route. 甚至你只能靠半个大拇指来支撑 So, you get maybe half your thumb on the hold. 然后换成两根手指来支撑 Then you roll your two fingers over the thumb, 换脚 switch your feet, 左脚踩上这块难以立足的黑色斜面落脚点 left foot stems out to this really bad sloping black foothold. 换个拇指支撑 Switch your thumbs. 然后向左伸手 And then reach out left 够住一个像面包条一样的斜面 to a big sloping bread loaf type hold 摸起来有点粗糙 that feels kind of grainy. 在那要做一个类似于空手道飞踢的动作 From there, you either karate kick 或是飞扑两次 or double-dyno to an edge 才能抓住对面石壁的边缘 on the opposite wall. 有时候靠两只手做一个大的跳跃更好 In some ways, it makes more sense to do the big two-handed jump 因为你能跳到一个不错的位置 because you're jumping to a good edge 有些地方能够抓住 so there's actually something to catch. 但是没有绳子就想跳的话 But the idea of jumping without a rope 那真是不要命了 seems completely outrageous. 如果你没抓住 那就玩完了 if you miss it, that's that. 但空手道踢腿的动作感觉就像你会随时 But then the karate kick always feels like you're falling 掉到另一面石壁上 into the other wall, 对于徒手攀岩来说也过于冒险 which also feels outrageous for soloing. 老实说 Honestly, it wasn't like, 我感觉需要非常用力才能抓住 I mean I felt, like, pretty strong just pinching that shit - 然后保持不动把脚放上去 - 就像我说的 - and just being that, put the foot. - Well, as I said, 当你把脚踩在那时 我在想 when you actually put your foot out there, I was like, 好吧 看起来还能行 "Well, that doesn't look that bad." 是的 这并不疯狂 我们拭目以待 Yeah, it's not like crazy, but we'll see. 你今早吃了布洛芬片吗 Did you take Ibuprofen this morning? 是的 我现在也要吃 Uh-hmm, I mean, I'm going to right now also. - 脚踝痛吗 - 嗯 - For your ankle? - Uh-hmm. 当他去攀岩时我并不会特别激动 I'm not, like, super stoked when he goes soloing, 因为他已是我生命中不可或缺的一部分了 because he's already a big part of my life. 我告诉亚历克斯我会一直爱他 I tell Alex I love him all the time, 他也靠行动证明着他会一直爱我 and he shows me that he loves me all the time. - 真的只是潜入水中 - 是的 - And really just dive in. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. 但我也告诉他我想听到一些甜言蜜语 But I also tell him that I also need words of affection. 我们都正在努力 We work on that. 在如何表达情感方面 In terms of learning how to communicate emotion, 亚历克斯还有很多需要学习 Alex has a long way to go. 我说 "有时候我会告诉你我的想法" And I said, "Sometimes I'm gonna tell you how I feel, 我只需要你说 and I just need you to say "我能理解你的感受" it totally makes sense that you feel that way." 他会说 "我能理解你为什么这么想" He was like, "Yeah, I can understand why you feel that way." 我就会说 "我不觉得你能理解" I was like, "I don't really think that you do, "但你能尝试我很高兴" but I'm glad that you're trying." 亚历克斯 我们合作得很不错 Alex, we have excellent team skills. 我想 只能说我们合作得还不算太差 Well, I thought, I feel like we're not quite killin' it, 但我想 我们合作得还行 but we're, I think we're doin' well. 是吗 我觉得我们就是合作得很棒 Really? I think we're doing great. 看到亚历克斯和萨尼如此有默契 我很高兴 I'm very happy for Alex and Sanni that it works so well. 他们如此亲密 我也被深深地打动了 And I'm, I think I'm just impressed by their relationship, 但要进行高难度的徒手攀岩 but to free solo at that level, 你必须要将内心披上铠甲 you really have to have the mental armor. 而有了浪漫的爱情 Having that romantic relationship around 会使内心变得脆弱 is detrimental to that armor. 你必须保持专注 You have to focus 而一份如胶似漆的爱情却会卸下内心的铠甲 and inherently a close romantic relationship removes that armor. 鱼和熊掌不可兼得 You kinda can't have both at the same time. 总有些东西会成为你信心的源泉 There's always something that has to give you the confidence 给你出去徒手攀岩的动力 to go out and free solo a route. 有时候 这种信心只是来源于 So sometimes, that confidence just comes from 觉得自己非常的建康 feeling super, super fit. 有时候 这种信心 Sometimes, that confidence 来源于充分的准备和练习 comes through preparation and rehearsal. 但总会有事情让你觉得准备好了 But I mean there's always something that makes you feel ready. 通过徒手攀爬几段峭壁 There's something to be said for, like, 来到达合适的落脚点 soloing a bunch of pitches to, like, 类似这种体验还是非常不错的 get into that right space. 我有点紧张 It's a little stressful. - 只是这太难以置信了 - 是啊 - It's just, it's unreal. - Yeah. 尽管我相信亚历克斯 And as much as I trust Alex 我也知道他得心应手 and I know that he's really methodical, uh, 但如果你挑战极限 最终会止于极限 if you're pushing the edge, eventually you find the edge. 但是有些事情 But then there's just some things that you're, like, 你就只能强迫自己去努力挑战 well, you just have to push that far 酋长岩就是那么吸引人 And El Cap is that cool. 每件事情 There's incremental advances 都在逐渐被改进 that happen in all kinds of things, 但是每隔一段时间就会有巨大的飞跃 but every once in a while there's just this iconic leap, 徒手爬酋长岩 soloing El Cap, 他如果能做到 那就是巨大的飞跃 if he pulls this off, is this quantum leap. 很难想象有人能攀在上面 It is hard to imagine somebody up there by themselves, 不拉绳索 without a rope, 就在这个四周都是峭壁的地方 where it's pretty much all the other big cliffs around here. 我明白它的难度 I can kinda get it. 你徒手爬那两条路线多少次了 How many times have you soloed both those routes now? 阿斯特罗曼爬了有三四次吧 Well, Astroman, three or four times, 罗斯特鲁姆差不多也有五六十次了 but the Rostrum, I mean, literally, like, fifty, sixty. 等下 你都徒手爬罗斯特鲁姆五六十次了吗 Wait, you've soloed the Rostrum 50 or 60 times? 就像是个循环一样 It was like part of the circuit and I would, 我每去一次都爬至少两趟 I would go there and I would do it at least twice. 就跟着迷了似的 Like I was just glommed on. 不是说我害怕 只是有点 Not like I had a fear, but just kind of like this is how. 对 因为你已经绷起来了 Yeah, because you're so tight. 你知道 我特别喜欢徒手攀岩的这种感觉 You know, I love that about soloing. 我的脚上功夫变得特别好 My footwork gets really good. 对 没错 是这样 对 Yeah, really, yeah totally, yeah. 但并不是别人也这样 只有我自己是这样 But it's not for anybody else, this is just for me. 对 对 只是因为你觉得你是 Yeah, yeah, just because you feel like you're. 徒手爬了阿斯特罗曼之后 人们会这样 And after Astroman, people were like, 我们想拍你 拍你攀岩 "we wanna film you, film you up there," 那我就是 没兴趣 一点兴趣都没有 and I'm like, "Not interested, not even slightly." 对我来说 要为正确的目的而攀岩 For me, it was so incredibly important 这是最为重要的 to be doing it for the right reasons. 我是说 我觉得我做的一切都是为了正确的目的 I mean, I think I'm still doing everything for the right reasons, 我现在还是特别激动 and I'm still totally stoked, 但是我觉得旁观者 but I feel like from the outside observer, 他们会这样说 他搞了个电影制作团队 you know, they'd be like, "Oh, he's got a movie crew," 很明显这不是正确的目的 你懂我意思 like clearly that's the wrong reasons, you know. 带着一支电影团队 最糟糕的是 The worst thing about having a film crew is 它可能会改变你的思维方式 if it changes your mindset. 我觉得亚历克斯已经准备好了 I think Alex is almost ready to do it. 他还想再做几组热身 He just wants to take a few more practice laps. 我们也在研究每个机位 And we're just trying to figure out all of our camera positions. 徒手攀岩的话 头顶区域很容易出问题 I mean the soloing headspace is so fragile. 我们想拍摄好 We wanna film it well, 但是我们不能妨碍到他 还需要确保 but it's about not getting in his way and making sure 他能获得自己想要的体验 he has the experience he wants. 最糟糕的情况可能就是 我们团队中的人 The worst possible scenario is that one of us would do something 会不小心害死他 that would kill him. 会是无人机吗 Is it gonna be the drone? 会是绳索吗 Is it gonna be one of the ropes? 还是有人不小心碰下去一块石头 Is it gonna be us accidently knocking off a rock? 想到会摔下去 The idea of falling off is, you know, 当然我在努力避免 obviously I'm trying to avoid that, 其实我自己一个人的话还好 but it's like kind of okay if it's just by myself. 但是我不想在我朋友面前摔下去 But, like, I wouldn't wanna fall off right in front of my friends, 因为那样 'cause that's like, 有点没面子 that's kind of messed up. 说真的 我们在哪拍你会比较自在 Where are you comfortable with us being essentially? 你们有比如说 Well, do you have like. 横渡段有相机吗 The traverse into it? 那么就一个相机在上面 And then a, just a camera above, 架在抱石绳段上 怎么样 sitting above the Boulder Pitch, essentially. - 会有干扰 - 对 会有干扰 - It's distracting. - Yeah, it's distracting. 不仅仅是干扰 还有就是 Well, it's not just distracting, but it's also like, you know, 没人想要看着那些 我不知道怎么说 nobody wants to see that, I don't know. 就像 我不知道 还是不要了吧 Like, yeah, I don't know, yeah, it's better not to. 有些东西就是 Some things you're like, meh. 那我应该回到山谷然后试着 So should I rally into the valley and try to like - 完善一下计划吗 - 对 - round out plans? - yeah. 月亮四点五十落下 Um, the moon set at 4:50 behind the ridge. 太阳七点三十升到尖顶 The spire was touched by the sun at 7:30 大概八点零��太阳会照射到攀爬难点 and by 8:05, the sun was to the crux probably. - 八点零五 - 好的 - 8:05? - Okay. 你不想你爬到攀爬难点时阳光正盛 You don't want it to be sunny when you get to the crux, 需要三到四个小时才能到抱石绳段 and it takes three or four hours to get up to the Boulder Problem, 而且这是在秋天 所以为了回避太阳 and it's fall so in order to beat the sun, 你天不亮就得出发 you basically have to start in the dark. 我还是觉得四点开始比较合适 I kinda think just leave the ground at 4:00 again, basically. 我不知道 我都有点神经质了 I don't know. I'm starting to get kind of psyched. 放手去做这件事的一刻 The moment of just letting go to it 大概是最安宁的一刻了 is in some ways the most peaceful because 因为你就是在做你自己的事情 then it's like you just do your thing. 压力也没有了 焦虑也没有了 There's no more stress, there's no more anxiety, 恐惧也没有了 无论如何 你去做就可以了 there's no fear, whatever, you just go up and do it. 我今天穿了勒紧的鞋 太爽了 I put on my tight shoes today, it's like very exciting. 就像是 It would be, like, 就像武士拔出自己最爱的剑一样 it would be like a samurai pulling out his favorite sword, 就像 you know like, 天啊 就是 现在我就是 "Oh, my gosh," you know, and now I'm like, 该是我宝剑出鞘的时候了 "Oh, time for the, the finely crafted blade." 太激动了 我要迷醉了 So stoked. I like sinking into it. 感觉自己像是绝地武士 有了光剑一样 It's, it goes with the Jedi thing, the samurai with the, 我刚开始服镇痛药 and then I just started taking Ibuprofen. 我在做冰敷了 I've been, like, icing a bunch and, like, 我想我的脚很快就能恢复 I think my foot's gonna be pretty good. 你跟萨尼说这件事的时候她说了什么 what does Sanni say when you talk to her about it? 我其实没跟她说太多 Um, I mean I haven't talked to her that much. 她一直 问我很多问题 She's been, like, asking a lot of questions like, 怎么样 "Oh, you know, how's it?" 我呢 我就没有过 我就是 And I'm, I just haven't really like, I'm just like, 到时候就知道了 到时候就知道了 "Oh, we'll see, we'll see." 其实越少人知道越好 You know, the fewer people know anything, the better really. 我做了个梦 梦到你一瘸一拐的 你就是 I had a dream and you were limping and you were like, 就又像上次一样摔下去了 had caught, had like made the exact same fall 你的脚踝又像这次一样摔伤 and fallen on your ankle in the exact same way. 这么想很不错啊 萨萨 That's really nice, San San. - 那太悲剧了 - 我喜欢听那样的故事 - It was like tragic. - I love hearing stories about that. 我醒了之后想 天啊 要是没发生就好了 I woke up, like, "Oh my gosh. I hope that didn't happen." 那 那真不错 That's, that's really nice. 你那个小背包是干嘛用的 Um, what is your, is your daypack? 他们是给你和彼得带的吗 They're bringing it up there for you and Peter? 不是 Um, no. 应该是给我明天用的吧 For me tomorrow, probably. 给你爬山用的吗 For on the mountain? 登顶用的 对 Um, for the summit, yeah. 你和彼得要试试爬完整座山吗 Hmm, you and Peter are gonna try and do the whole thing? 不是 彼得不会在这待多久 Uh, no, Peter won't be here for a couple of days probably. 那你明天跟谁一起爬呢 Oh, who are you climbing with tomorrow? 明天就知道了 Um, yeah, we'll just see. 那 好吧 好吧 Oh, okay, okay. 等等 那你是想着明天要单独去爬 Wait, so are you thinking of soloing it tomorrow, 所以才不告诉我你明天跟谁一起爬的吗 is that why you're not telling me who you're climbing with? 我不是不告诉你 但是你说的对 Um, well, I'm not like not telling you, but yeah. 亚历克斯 Whoa, Alex. 感觉如何 How do you feel? 我 你知道 我 我很激动 I'm, you know, I mean, excited. 这真的很让人激动 那种感觉是你在 That's really exciting. Is it that feeling when you're like... 特别兴奋 我又能做攀岩笔记了 So exciting I'm gonna go right back to my book. 你准备在哪 不 我不要看 Where you're like, no, I'm not reading it. 你什么时候决定的 When did you decide? - 你什么时候决定明天就去的 - 就昨天 - When did you decide to do it tomorrow? - No, just, you know, 要么就前天 就是这几天 yesterday or the day before or something. 我在消化这新消息 I'm processing. 在宏观上 我希望 I wanna, like I wanna have this more, like, 在你怀着那种心态 holistic approach that you have where "人终有一死" you're like "Well, we're all gonna die, "在有生之年做自己想做的事" like might as well do what we wanna do while we're here and "虽死无憾"时 it's okay when people die," 与我蓦然相遇 but I feel like I want you to meet me halfway 这样你徒手攀岩时将我也纳入想做的事中 and when you solo to take me into the equation 然后我想起你说过 and then I think you said... - 你是要提问吗 - 提几个 - Is there a question? - Some, - 肯定要问的 - 好吧 - there's going to be. - Okay. 把我纳入其中会对你有所改变吗 would putting me into the equation actually ever change anything? 你会因此作出不同的决定吗 Would you actually make decisions differently? 如果我有某种尽可能活下去的义务 If I had some kind of obligation to maximize my lifespan, 那么我肯定应该放弃徒手攀岩 then like yeah, obviously I'd have to give up soloing and. 我现在对你的提问 唤醒你的这种义务了吗 Was me asking you, do you see that as an obligation now? 不 不 Uh, no, no. 但我很感谢你的关心 而且我非常在乎 No, but I appreciate your concerns and I, you know, I respect that, 但并没有感觉有这种义务 but, but I, in no way, feel obligated, no. - 尽可能活下去 - 不 我也说不准 - To maximize lifetime? - No,I don't know. 当你说"尽可能安全"时 Um, but I mean like you saying, "Be safer," 我是 怎么说呢 办不到 I'm kinda like well, I mean I can't. 我已经尽自己最大努力了 You know, I'm already doing my best. 所以我也可以不去攀岩了 So I could just, like, not do certain things, 但心中一定会忿忿不��� but then you have, like, weird simmering resentment 那就像生命中挚爱的事业破灭了 because it's things that you love most in life have now been squashed. 懂我意思吧 You know what I mean? - 现在几点了 - 凌晨三点三十 - What time is it? - 3:30. 闹钟响的前一分钟我就醒了 I just woke up one minute before my alarm. 你是醒早了还是醒晚了 Yeah, you woke up before or after? 醒早了一分钟 One minute before. 一心追求卓越和完美 It's like always about, like, excellence and perfection. 我就是这样长大的 And I was certainly raised that way, 你需要好好表现 you know, that you need to, you need to perform. 同样 这也很酷 It's also just like kind of rad 因为你正在做人类历史上 because you're doing something for the first time 前无古人的事情 in human history. 希望今天运气不错 Let's hope it's a low gravity day. 再见 赫克 山下见 Bye, Huck, see you at the ground. - 山下见 - 再见了兄弟 - Meet you in the ground. - See you, buddy. 糟透了 我不想爬了 This sucks. I don't wanna be here. 我不干了 I'm over it. 怎么了 What happened? 我在下面这块岩壁上歇着了 I cheated on the slab down there. 不妨对讲一下 Might as well radio it. 你想和他对话吗 Do you wanna talk to him? 我甚至不知道该说什么 有点尴尬 I don't even know what to say, it's, like, kind of embarrassing. 对讲机那边的 不管是谁 我是亚历克斯 Uh, hey, whoever's on the radio, this is Alex. 我要放弃了 Um, I think I'm bailing. 等等 你能重复一遍吗 Wait, could you repeat? 他想从波特平台处放弃 I think he's bailing from Heart. 从波特平台处放弃 没错 Bailing from Heart, that's correct. 有点令人困扰 It's kind of disturbing. 我想知道是怎么回事 Yeah, I wonder what it was. 我不知道我能不能在众目睽睽之下攀岩 I don't know if I can try with everybody watching. 太可怕了 It's too scary. 没法真正尝试冒险 Just can't, like, try for real. - 哦天哪 - 早上好 - Oh, my gosh. - Good morning. 你怎么了 What are you doing? 哦 我放弃了 Oh, I bailed. 放弃了 You bailed, 外面太冷了 Yeah, it's chilly outside. 太冷了 好吧 It's chilly, okay. 好 Okay. 怎么了 What's going on? 没什么 Well, not much. 怎么了 What's up? 我刚刚上到极限平板区 然后我 Oh, I just, I went up to Free Blast and I was, like, nah, 我没再继续了 但是 I'm not gonna' do it. But... 挺好的 Good for you. 只是有点奇怪 知道吗 Yeah, well, it's just a little weird, you know? - 嗯 - 嗯 - 不 - Yup. - Yeah. - No. 我是说那里有太多 Right, I mean there's just too many random, 太多无关的人和工作人员 诸如此类 random folks about and stuff, whatever. 好吧 Uh-hmm, yeah. 我爬了第一块石板的一半 But, like, basically I did the first half of the first slab. 然后 我想 我不确定 And then, uh, and then I just was like, "Oh, I don't know." 还有我的脚 And my feet. 好 你的决定没错 Right, you made the perfect decision. 我也不确定 我就是觉得 I don't know though, I'm just like. 但现在一切都要拖得更久 But now it all has to drag on longer, I'm like. 你其实没必要强求的 You, yeah, I mean, you never have to go for it. 你可以 You can just. 我只是想让它结束 Well, I just need it to end, you know. 是的 一切… Yeah, yeah, all the... - 你知道我指的是什么 - 你周围看戏的人 - Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. - The circus surrounding you. 真是意想不到 我猜他是不是有点紧张 I just can't imagine, I wonder if he got nervous. 这样可以吗 Is that possible? 他很多地方我都不太能理解 There's a lot of things that I don't totally understand about him. - 你明白吗 - 我明白 - You know? - Yeah, I know. 某种程度上 知道"史波克"也会紧张 I mean in some ways it'd be kind of reassuring that 反而让人更安心一点 Spock has nerves. 这是我第一次认真攀登 It was the first time I've ever gone up on something like real 结果却没有完成 and then not done it. 但这也是我第一次 But it's also the first time 在万众瞩目下攀登 I've ever gone up on something real with people all watching. 我孤身一人的话 也许还能坚持下去 By myself, I maybe would have just, like, persevered, 我不确定 I don't know, 也许我就是很弱 maybe I just suck, but, 但至少 至少我尝试过了 you know, at least I've like, at least I've tried. 谢谢再次和我们会面 Thanks for meeting us again. 这里总有一股味道 很有趣 It's funny, it always has a certain smell in here, 我猜可能是涂料还是 and I wonder if it's the paint or the. 是刚刷的涂料味 Yeah, it's the fresh paint. 餐厅可以装几个书架 Dining room with probably also bookshelves. 等等 我在签什么 Wait, so what am, what am I signing? "购房者批准房屋检验" "Buyers of unit approves the home inspection." 亚历克斯说我每天提到家装 Yeah, Alex told me I get one furniture question a day. 我总在想 应该买间房子 I've always thought that I ought to buy a house, 只是我自己一个人没有足够动力去做 just haven't quite had the energy to make it all happen myself. 我想 有个地方住萨尼会很高兴的 I think Sanni will be stoked to have a place to live 拉斯维加斯周围有很多山可以爬 and there's so much climbing all around Vegas. 放套组合沙发 再放上椅子或沙发加两把椅子 Big sectional here and chair or like sofa and two chairs. 这里可以做成吧台 Potential, like, bar area. 我打地铺就行 I would just sleep straight on the carpet. 就像是 It'd be like. 亚历克斯这大混蛋 看我拿着卷尺费力比划 Alex was a huge jerk watching me struggle with the tape measure, 袖手旁观 还在一边评论我姿态多傻 being an asshole standing by commenting on how stupid I look, 但又不来帮忙 but not actually offering to help 不起任何建设性作用 态度都不好一点 or be productive or kind in any way. 所以现在一切都完了 And so now it's all gone to shit. 你想问我们会举案齐眉吗 不存在的 Yeah, you're asking about our domestic bliss, it's nonexistent. 你很生气 但这句话就是玩笑了 You're so angry, but it's cracking, it's cracking. 这不是开玩笑 It's not cracking. 就是 就是玩笑 Yeah, it is, it's cracking. 不 没开玩笑 我还是很生气 No, it's not, I'm still angry. 我看得出来你在开玩笑 I can tell you're cracking. 我没有开玩笑 I'm not cracking. 但你也没有那么生气 你都笑了 But you're not that angry, you're cracking. 我没有笑 I'm not cracking. 非常坚定地要恨你 This is firm resolve of hatred. 天哪 Oh, boy. 那个看起来太大又太宽 That one seems very big and very wide. 那个好像太深 Whoa, that seems really deep. - 我们应该咨询一下别人 - 我知道 - We should just ask somebody. - I know. 我们再找找小一点的冰箱吧 Let's keep looking for the smaller ones. 这就是四百美元的那款 Oh, this is the $400, that's. - 就是它 - 就是它了 大爱 - That's it! - That's it, that's our jam. 这台可以说是完美 This is actually, like, kind of perfect. 非常符合我们的需要 This is like so adequate. 我们有冰箱了 We have a fridge! 很成功 That success. 那个能用吗 Is it possible? 约塞米蒂之后我们之间的关系有点僵 We had like a sort of a rough patch since Yosemite, 我说不清 where, I don't know, 亚历克斯并不善于表达自己的情绪 Alex isn't super good about putting a name to how he's feeling. 他的态度就是 我知道我很古怪 So, he'll be like, "I know I'm cranky, 但我不知道具体哪里怪 but I don't really know why 我也懒得花时间去想明白 and I'm not gonna take the time to figure it out." 我很有耐心 但是我也有自尊心 I'm patient, but I also have self-respect. 我特别生气的时候 And then, you know, the second that I start being mad, 他还一副状况外的样子 he's just like "foom." 怎么做咖啡呢 How do you make coffee? 得有一个过滤器 You need like a filter. 我交往过的女友中 和萨尼的关系 Definitely my relationship with Sanni is, like, 绝对是最健康最稳定的了 the most healthy and stable relationship I've ever had. 橱柜里就只有这个 Oh, look at that, the only thing in the cupboard. 我也比以前更爱讲话了 Certainly more communicative. 我们交往一年半后萨尼自己也说 Even Sanni over the year and a half we've been dating is like, "哇 你真的成熟了" "Wow, you've really blossomed." 这可能行不通 Well, that's not really promising. 你觉得能把咖啡放在这里 And you think you put the coffee in there 然后让水顺利流出来吗 and then you push the water through it? - 我不知道怎么 - 天哪 - I don't how to, um. - my gosh, - 哇 - 怎么了 - Wow - like, how's, why? 这就是要当房主的架势了吗 Is this what it is to be, um, a homeowner? 你每天都要自己做早餐煮咖啡了吗 You get breakfast and coffee made for you every day? 我 我不太会用 I don't, I don't understand the, 是把咖啡放这里然后倒水吗 do you put the coffee in here and then put the water to it? 确实太复杂了 It's really complicated. 但是她的观念不一样 But she sees things in a different way. 萨尼认为 生命的意义在于追求幸福 For Sanni the point of life is like happiness. 和能让你开心的人在一起 共度美好时光 To be with people that make you feel fulfilled and to have a good time. 对我而言则是在于取得成就 For me it's all about performance. 任何人都可以过得快乐而舒适 The thing is anybody can be happy and cozy. 可如此 世界就不会有所进步 Nothing good happens in the world by being happy and cozy. 没有人过着快乐而舒适的生活 You know, like nobody achieves anything great 还能取得伟大的成就 because they're happy and cozy. 你绝对不想 You never wanna feel 感觉自己是别人实现目标的绊脚石 like you're getting in the way of someone's goal. 但我真的想不通 他为什么以此为目标 And it's really hard for me to grasp why he wants this. 可这就是他的梦想 他也一定想实现 But it's his dream and he obviously still really wants it. 重要的是成为一名战士 It's about being a warrior. 具体为什么而战并不重要 It doesn't matter about the cause necessarily. 这是你要走的路 你要力求做到极致 This is your path and you will pursue it with excellence. 为了实现目标 你得直面恐惧 You face your fear because your goal demands it. 这就是勇士精神 That is the goddamn warrior spirit. 我觉得徒手攀岩时的心态 I think that the free soloing mentality 就很接近武士文化 is pretty close to warrior culture, 两者都要求绝对的专注 这关乎你的性命 where you give something 100% focus because your life depends on it. 秋天那时 我是在右脚踩在 The move I gave up on in the fall was 这里的那处细小的边缘时放弃的 a right foot on this little edge right here, 我只能靠右脚站立 and I basically just have to like stand on the right foot 并且相信自己的右脚 and just trust it. 我当时在想 我真的不想把整条命 And I was like, "I don't really wanna have my whole life 托付给我的右脚能在这里站稳 depend on like standing on this one right foot." 但或许我能找到别的办法 But maybe I can find another way. 我觉得这就像押上了全部资产的一笔生意 I think this is like kind of the business of the whole deal, 有趣的是 如果你带着绳子 which is interesting because if you're climbing with a rope 就不会输个精光 it's not at all, 但没有绳子就是押上一切了 but without a rope it is. 那就是我调整后的办法了 That's my variation, 我还不确定 I just don't know. 他只有在非常自信和安全的时候 I think that he's only comfortable climbing in front of the camera 才能在镜头或是其他人面前自如地攀岩 or in front of any other people when he's really confident and secure. 那就是整个��制面临的困境 对吗 And that's been the dilemma that this whole production has faced, right? - 对 - 从一开始就是如此 - Yeah. - From the beginning. 我们在场 总是会有所改变 Our being there is always going to change things. 对我而言 最重要的是他去年的放弃 What made the big difference for me is that he did turn around last year. 他并没有因为我们在场就感到 He didn't feel the pressure to have to do it 必须硬着头皮完成 because we were there. 这对我而言真的很重要 And I really, like that to me said a lot. 这很重要 It meant a lot. 你是希望我们不去拍摄吗 Is that what you'd want, us not to film it? 也没有 Hmm, no. 很难说 但是和拍摄相比我更在意的 I mean, hard to say it but I care about doing it a lot more than I care 是攀岩本身 about it being filmed. 你明白吗 You know? 你随时都可以停下来 You could put your foot down at any time, and, and, - 你知道 - 对 我很清楚 - you know. - Yeah, I mean, I'm aware of it. 如果我愿意 我随时可以瞒着别人 Like, if I want to, I just won't tell anybody - 然后自己去做这件事 - 没错 - and I'm just gonna do it on my own terms. - Yeah, exactly. 和其他的一样 这是显而易见的 Like whatever, like I mean that's obviously on the table. 但这会给所有人泼冷水 对吧 But obviously that would hose everybody, you know? 如果你明早醒来后觉得 If you woke up tomorrow and you were like, "知道吗 去他的吧 "You know what, screw all of this, 我没那么在乎 我感到不舒服 I just don't care enough, like I don't feel good enough." 但那样 You know, but that's like, yeah, 我当然知道自己可以这么做然后离开 I mean, of course I, I mean, I know I could do that and just walk away. 但是 我不想这样 But it's like, you know, I mean, you know, I don't want to. 周围有这些人在 我就得有更完善的准备 Having all these people around requires a higher level of preparation, 和更充足的信心 a higher level of confidence basically. 我必须要全神贯注 I need to like dial it in so much that, 不去在意会不会有 you know, it doesn't matter if there's 一整个体育场的人围观我 like a stadium of people watching me 因为这对我而言轻而易举 我只要 because it's so easy for me that I'm just like, 按部就班地来就行 "Check this out." And just do it. 第一段 从左边一路向上爬 Pitch one, stay left towards the top, 腿尽量分开感觉会更安全 splitter, it feels more secure. 第二段 相信右脚 踩稳岩石 相信双脚 Pitch two, trust the right foot, rock on, trust the feet, 最后用右手把自己拉上去 right hand to the last under cling. 八 很容易 快速通过 Eight, easy romp. Go fast. 九 远离倒悬岩壁 小心石块 Nine, stay outside of the down climb, careful of blocks. 第二十六段 向外向上绕过山角 Pitch 26, sort of lie back and up the corner, 关键在于左手的捏点 key left-hand pinch thing, 右脚向后踩在低一点的边缘处 right foot back step on the lower edge, 左脚正对岩壁 站直 left foot faced against the wall, stand up. 左手移到巨大的耳形岩点 Left hand to the huge ear jug thing, 换脚 两手同时抓住那个大岩点 switch the feet, match the big jug, 左脚卡在岩缝里 left foot jams into the crack, 然后右手扣在大岩点上向下拉 then you see right-hand down pulling on the top part of the jug, 左手伸进张开的狭缝中 left hand goes into this flared slot thing, 用拳头或者手卡在里面 which you can either fist jam or hand jam, either way, 卡在楔形缝隙中 it's like a flare jam in the slot. 靠这一点支撑 Sag down onto it, 右手从下面伸向岩点 侧拉 right hand crosses under to an under cling, side pull. 右脚踩住一条平边 Right foot sinks low to a flat edge, 左脚跟上踩住另一条棱边 left foot steps through to an edge, 右脚收回来用力抬高 right foot back steps really high 这样就能在岩角上支撑住身体 so you can sag your weight around the corner 而不用荡过去了 without having to swing. 左脚伸到大尖角上 Left foot out to the big horn, 右手手指插到一个小洞中 right hand through to a little finger pocket, 左脚踏住墙角另一边的岩点 you go left foot out to an edge around the corner, 可以把身体完全贴近内角 you can actually push all the way into the corner, 然后用右手用力拉 平移 then you can grab this down pulling right hand, flat, 像是一把小钳子 like a small crimp. 左手抓住另一个岩点 Left hand to the other under cling, 把脚挪到横杆上 然后一路 switch your feet on the rail and then just reach 攀着大凹槽上去 就可以了 through the jugs, and then it's done. 通过难点的关键是用力拉 信任脚感 The key thing for the crux, pull hard, trust feet, "信任"加下划线 "trust" underline, 两个感叹号 句号 double exclamation point, period. 跟着直觉走 句号 Autopilot. Period. 乌里遇难不是什么奇怪的事 I mean, you know, it's not surprising that Ueli died. 因为他总是在疯狂冒险 Considering he's always doing crazy dangerous things, 但我本来觉得他能成功的 but I kind of thought he was gonna survive. 乌里说过进行冒险攀岩 Ueli talked about doing sketchy climbs 你总要勉强一次 that you just kind of squeak out once. 我一直都尽力避免 You know I've always tried not to. 但和他谈到自由攀岩线路的时候 我想 But when I was talking to him about, about Free Rider, I was like, "也许对自由攀岩线路这种事 "Oh maybe Free Rider is one of those routes 我应该勉强挑战一次 that I just need to go squeak out once and 挑个黄道吉日" just like make sure it's my day." 看来那天他运气不好 You know, obviously it wasn't his day. 乌里去世后 亚历克斯的反应不大 After Ueli died, it's interesting with Alex, 他很快就接受了这件事 how he justifies all that stuff away so quickly. 他耸耸肩就把这件事抛到脑后 他说 He was just kind of like shrugged it off, he's like "是啊 这种事很正常" "Oh, yeah, yeah, it could happen." 关于这件事 我和亚历克斯聊了很久 I talked to Alex for a really long time about all of this. 我问他"如果你死了呢 And I was like, "What if you die? 如果你像乌里一样死了呢" Like what if you die just like Ueli died?" 乌里和妻子妮可志同道合 Ueli and his wife, Nicole, had a really beautiful relationship 经常一起攀岩 and they would climb together. 亚历克斯一度说 "她指望什么呢" Alex said at one point, "Well, what did she expect?" 我就说 "你这是什么意思" And I got, I was like, "What do you mean what did she expect?" "我就像妮可 亚历克斯 I was like, "I'm Nicole, Alex! 我不想要这种结果" And I don't expect that." 无数人因此去世 而亚历克斯 Tons of more people have died and Alex is kind of 遇难的可能性最大 但我知道他还是会去做 the most likely to die, but I know he's gonna do it. 所以我想帮他尽力做好准备 So I'd like to be there to help him prepare as well as he can. 糟了 Oh, shit. 如果他无保护攀岩 最后坠落而亡 If he went to solo it and fell and died, 而我并没有帮他准备 那我就更难接受了 and I hadn't helped him prepare that would be harder for me. 我知道我… Like, I just know that I'm, 我是最适合帮他准备的人之一 I'm one of the people that's gonna be able to do that the best 所以我应该这么做 with him and so, I should. 他说他感觉最终时刻就要到了 He said he's feeling tinges of, of like game time. 我觉得他可能明天会去 I think there's a chance he goes tomorrow. 这是远程摄像机 They are remote cameras, 因为我们要在亚历克斯攀登期间 because we wanna stay out of Alex's line of sight 避开他的视线 when he's doing it. 大家都知道一旦发生意外该怎么做 Okay, everybody knows what to do if something goes wrong. 乔什 确认一下麦基要打给谁 Josh, just to confirm who should Mikey call? 最简单的就是急救电话 The easiest thing would just be 911. 我们会迅速响应 And that we will get kicked into gear 告诉他们你掌握的情况 and tell them what you know. 一个攀岩者 A climber. 对 Yeah. 明天不要出差错 All right, no mistakes tomorrow. 我担心明天就是终点了 I'm worried that tomorrow is gonna be it, like, you know, 亚历克斯会遭遇不测 like Alex's existence will be over. 我在想 "我必须做好心理准备 I was like, "Oh, I have to be prepared for that outcome and 我必须明白真的有这种可能" I have to realize that that is a real possibility." 天呐 Oh, god. 记不记得你说过我告别的时候你会站起来 Remember when you said you were gonna stand up for my goodbye? - 现在吗 - 是啊 - Oh, is it time? - Yeah. 但你必须站起来 你必须坐起来 But you don't have to stand up, but you have to sit up. 你可以离开我的 Oh, you could've just left me. 不不 我永远都不会走 No, no, I'm never gonna go. 开车小心 Okay, drive safe. 再见 明天见 Ciao, see you later! 我没有要求她走 I mean, I didn't ask her to leave. 我永远不会赶她走的 I mean, I'll never ask her to leave. 但是 我觉得她大概明白 But, you know, I think she kind of understands that, 如果她不在 我会轻松一点 that it's probably easier for me if she's gone. 对于告别 我一直在想 I don't, I, the whole like saying goodbye thing I'm like "也许五天后我就会见到她了" "I'll probably see her in like five days or something." 这不是永别 只是暂时告别几天而已 It's not like goodbye, it's just goodbye for a few days. 我脑子里有很多奇怪的想法 比如 You know, I mean there's just that like weird thought of like, 千万别成为我们的最后一个拥抱之类的 don't freaking let that be our last hug or whatever. 我不应该有这种想法… You know, like I shouldn't be having that thought... "如果出事了怎么办 of like "What if something happens? 如果我再也见不到他了怎么办" Like what if I don't see him again?" 我在想 "你为什么要这么做 You know, like, "Why do you wanna do this? 这种目标简直是疯了" Like it's a totally crazy goal." 吉米 能收到吗 Hey, Jimmy, do you copy? 我是吉米 This is Jimmy. 他刚刚开始攀岩了 He just started climbing. 那里太滑了 It is so slippery right there. 他就是在这儿放弃的 This is where he bailed. 麦基 能听到吗 我是吉米 Mikey, do you copy? This is Jimmy. 吉米 我是麦基 Hey, Jimmy, this is Mikey. 等他通过岩壁段的时候能告诉我吗 Can you let me know when he's through the slab pitch? 他通过岩壁路段了 He's through the slab pitch. 他已经过去了 He's through it? 对 他快到五角岩缝了 Yup, he's almost at half dollar. 他动作很快 He's moving fast. 是的 吉米 他的进度提前了 Yes, Jimmy, he is of course ahead of schedule. 他离猛犸平台还有多远 So how far is he from Mammoth? 正在通过五角岩缝 Doing the half dollar right now. 六时二十一分 他向下爬到了心形平台 6:21 he's down climbing to Heart Ledge 那儿有一群人 还是在波特平台上 there's a party, in a Porter Ledge still. 他们都醒了 发现了他 They're awake and there's, they're aware. G他们在想"霍诺德来了" 天呐 They're like "Here comes Honnold." Oh, my God. 一个穿兔子套装的男人 A Dude in a bunny suit. 那个人要站起来了 The person is getting up now. 不 有尾巴 Uh yeah, no there's a tail. 他有尾巴 不是鸡头就是兔子 This person has a tail and it's either a chicken head or a bunny. 是独角兽 Oh, it's a unicorn. 拜托 谁会这么干 Come on. Who does that? 我从没在酋长岩上见过这种人 I've never seen that on El Cap. 亚历克斯离开了 Wow, and Alex is gone. 他在六时四十九分进入了中空页岩区 Okay, so he's entering the Hollow Flake at 6:49. 他刚完成了中空页岩区的下行路段 He just did the Hollow Flake down climb 现在进入了中空页岩区 and is in the Hollow Flake now. 自由攀岩线路的特点是 And then the thing about Free Rider 从中空页岩区底部开始 is that from the base of Hollow Flake 有一条岩缝系统一直贯穿到崖顶 it's one crack system all the way to the top 差不多有六百一十米吧 which is like what, 2,000 feet? 堪称地球上最壮丽的岩缝 That's the most magnificent crack on planet earth. 道格 是我吉米 Doug, this is Jimmy. 他们有通过无线电告诉你他到巨兽裂缝了吗 Do you know if they've radioed if he's gotten to the Monster yet? 有 他刚刚到 Yeah, he's there now. 就快爬过去了 He's almost through it. 瞧 他现在确实快到了 There, he's coming up now actually. 他现在到了相当于峰顶的高度 Now we see him like at the same height as the spire. 但你们大家都已经各就各位了吗 But you guys are all in position ready to go? 准备好了 萨姆和我就在山墙底下 Yeah, Sam and I are at the bottom of the head wall. 我猜他十五分钟左右能到抱石绳段 My guess is he's 15 minutes from the Boulder Problem or so. 他刚刚来了招空手道踢 He just did the karate kick. 他做到了 He's got it. 太棒了 Oh, yeah. 这也太险了 That is way too gnarly. - 我的天呐 - 他做到了 天呐 - Oh, my God. - He did it. Jesus. 他刚刚到了抱石绳段 He just sent the boulder problem. 他一定兴奋极了 He must be so stoked. 把耐力角和抱石绳段甩在身后 I mean to have the slabs and the boulder problem 对他而言意义重大 behind him is monumental. - 到耐力角了吗 - ���错 到耐力角了 - Here's the Enduro huh? - Yup, this is the Enduro. 我不敢相信你们竟然还真敢看 I can't believe you guys are actually gonna watch. 不 我不想 我不要 不要 Oh, I don't wanna, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, no, no. 我的天呐 Oh, my God. 是啊 他现在几乎完全悬在外面 Yeah, that's kind of exposed right there. 天呐 这也太悬了 Oh, my God, it's so exposed. 那种在刃嶙上行走真的太 That arête move as he stepped around has gotta be, 这是攀爬酋长岩上最险峻 I mean that's one of the most exposed moves 最艰险的一段 like anywhere on El Cap. 稍有退却 就会滚落下来 If you just step out, it all drops away. 真棒 伙计 Yeah, buddy. 今天是亚历克斯的巅峰之日 Alex is having the best day of his life. 不好说 反正我不太好受 I don't know. Not me. 我受够了 没错 就这样吧 I'm done, yeah, no, this is it, 我不 我们没必要再重来一次 I don't, we don't need to do this again. 没错 不要了 Yeah, no. 要结束了 It's over now. 我的天呐 登顶了 太棒了 Oh, God, it's done, woo-hoo! 天呐 Oh, God. 天呐 Oh, God, wow. 老天 简直不敢相信我刚亲眼目睹了什么 Oh, my God, I can't believe what I just witnessed. 天呐 Oh, god. 很高兴再次见到你 好耶 Good to see you again, yay. 太高兴了 So delighted. 感觉棒极了 太紧张了 That felt so good, it's freaking raged. 现在感觉如释重负 Like a gigantic weight off of my shoulders too. 我得承认 I have to admit, I mean. 太高兴了 这趟旅行太棒了 So delighted, what a journey. 是啊 不敢相信八年的梦想 Yeah, I just can't even believe after eight years of dreaming, 萨萨打电话给我 oh San-san's calling me. 你好呀 Hello? 是我 太高兴了 Yeah, so delighted. 天呐 你太高兴了 这也太轻描淡写了 Oh my, you're so delighted, that's putting it lightly. 我从没像这样大笑过 别说太… I've like never smiled so much. Don't say anything too... 我想看到的 说什么来着 I wanna see it. What's that? 我说过我想看见你那样的笑脸 Like, I told you I wanted to see that smile. 是啊 我知道 Yeah, I know. 我从来没哭成这样 我都没想到我会哭 I've like never cried so hard and I didn't even see it coming. 你现在还能说上话来 真是太讨厌了 Showing that you talk now, I was just like "Blah." 是啊 我有点 Yeah, no, I'm, I'm sort of at, 我也有点想哭 我现在百感交集 at risk of crying here too, I'm like, I feel quite emotional. 这样对了 别哭 萨萨 别惹的我也想哭 Yeah, no, don't cry San-san it will make me cry. 但查理说哭出来吧 But Claire says cry it. 我觉得如果我哭出来电影效果会更好 但我 I think the movie would be better if I burst into tears, but I, 我不是很想哭 I don't really want to. 但 我是有点想 But, well I do want to kind of, but. 我好开心 I'm so happy. 天呐 Oh, God. 我好开心 I'm so happy. 是啊 Yeah. 我好开心 I'm so happy. 好了 Well, okay. 回头见 我大概六个多小时后就能见到你 I'll see you, I'll see you in like six hours or something. 好的 回见 And I'll see you soon, yeah. 好的 我爱你 Yeah, okay, I love you. 非常感谢 真的谢谢你 Thank you so much, I appreciate you. - 我也爱你 - 你是最棒的 - I love you too. - You're, you're the best. 我很爱你 我真的以你为傲 And I appreciate you and I'm really proud of you. 好耶 yay. 我说不好 I don't know. 我觉得今早这座山看着 I don't, I don't think the mountain looked 没那么可怕 that scary this morning. 有趣的是山还是那座山 It's funny because it does look the same 攀岩的方式也没有变 and hiking up looked the same, 所有情况看起来似乎都差不多 everything just felt pretty much the same, 除了我没有背大背包以外 except I just didn't have much of a backpack. 我确实遗忘了我的绳子和架子 I did, I forgot my rope and rack. 我感觉棒极了 I felt so good. 正因如此我才如此高兴 I mean that's why I'm so happy 我想要的就是这种体验 that the experience was like what I hoped for. 我没有向那些对我而言 I didn't compromise on any of the things 非常重要的东西妥协 that were super important to me. 这种感觉棒极了 Huh, yeah, that felt good. 好吧 接下来呢 All right. So what's next, 接下来你要干什么 亚历克斯 what are you gonna do Alex? 我可能要挂会板 I'm probably gonna hang board. 你想挂会板 You're gonna hang board? 正常人或许会想休息一下午 A normal person would probably take the afternoon off. 谢谢你和我一起去攀岩 Thanks again for coming out and climbing with me. 我真的以你为傲 I'm really proud of you. 还好没有暴跌身亡 Good work not plummeting to your death. 很高兴都结束了 Really glad it's over. 我的天呐 你来了 天呐 Oh, my gosh, you're here, oh, my God! 天呐 我真为你感到高兴 Oh, my gosh, I'm so happy for you, 你去做并且成功了 you did it and you're done. 你知道在你之前就有人来过这儿 You know some of the people that have come before you, 他们领先时没有选择止步不前 they, they didn't quit while they were ahead. 或许这是好事 Maybe it's good. 或许我无需时刻保持领先 Maybe I don't need to keep charging ahead. 此时此刻会有某个小屁孩 Right now there's some kid 读到有人徒手登上了酋长岩 会说 that just read about El Cap being soloed and he's like. "还有什么更了不起的" "What's bigger?" "有什么更酷的" Like "What's cooler?" 我是说肯定有人会想到某些事 And I mean somebody's gonna think of something 会更加的刺激 and it's gonna be cooler. 但我不知道我会不会也这样 But I don't know if that will be me. 或许吧 我不清楚 Maybe, I don't know.
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What's the Right Thing to Do - Lecture 12 Same Sex Marriage
对同性婚姻的争论 Debating Same-Sex Marriage 上次结课时，我们讲到了 关于“叙事性自我”的概念。 We ended last time talking aboutthe narrative conception of the self. 而且，我们还 检验了这个概念 We were testing the narrative conception of the self 以及 团体或成员义务的概念 and the idea of obligations of solidarity or membership 这种义务 并不是来自于团体或成员的同意， that did not flow from consent,
这种义务 与契约或协议无关 that claimed us for reasons unrelated to a contract or an agreement 也与 我们可能做出的选择无关 or a choice we may have made. 我们内部当中也有争议： And we were debating among ourselves 是否真的存在 这种义务 whether there are any obligations of this kind 或者说，所有这些 涉及到团体和成员的 显而易见的义务 or whether all apparent obligations of solidarity and membership 是否可以解读为 是一种协议，或对等互利的关系 can be translated into consent or reciprocity 或者说，是我们作为个体，所应当承担的普遍责任。 or universal duty that we owe persons qua persons. 后来，就有人提出了 关于忠诚和爱国的观点。 And then there were those who defended the idea of loyalty and of patriotism. 关于 忠诚、团结和成员的观念 So the idea of loyalty and of solidarity and of membership 在我们的讨论中，成为了一种道德力量。 gathered a certain kind of intuitive moral force in our discussion. 接着，正如我们总结的， And then, as we concluded, 我们考虑到了 一个似乎很有力的反例。 we considered what seems to be a pretty powerful counter example to that idea. 也就是，20世纪50年代 有关南方 种族隔离主义者的电影。 Namely, the film of those southern segregationists in the 1950s. 他们谈论到 他们的传统、 And they talked all about their traditions, 他们的历史、他们的身份，在他们一生中 是如何紧密相连。 their history, the way in which their identities were bound up with their life history. 你们还记得这些吗？ Do you remember that? 从那段历史，从那些 南方种族隔离主义者身上，对自己身份的认同感， 我们能得出什么？ And what flowed from that history, from that narrative sense of identity for those southern segregationists? 他们说：我们不得不 保护我们的生活方式。 They said we have to defend our way of life. 这是否算是一个 重大或决定性的 Is this a fatal or a decisive objection to 对“叙述性自我”概念 的反驳？ the idea of the narrative conception of the self? 这就是我们上次 留下的问题。 That’s the question we were left with. 我今天要做的就是 What I would like to do today 继续深入讨论，看看从中能得出什么观点。 is to advance an argument and see what you make of it. 让我来告诉大家 论题是什么。 And let me tell you what that argument is. 我打算为 I would like to defend “叙述性自我” 辩护， the narrative conception of the person 来反对 唯意志论。 as against the voluntarist conception. 我打算为 I would like to defend “团体或成员义务”的观点 来辩护 the idea that there are obligations of solidarity or membership. 我想说 Then, I want to suggest 当我们说到正义， that there being such obligations 确实存在着 这样的义务，支持这样一个观点： lends force to the idea, when we turn to justice, 即 当我们谈论 正义的问题时 justice can’t be detached, 不能脱离 “善”的问题。 that arguments about cannot be detached after all, from questions of the good. 但我想区分开 两种不同的方式 But I wanted to distinguish two different ways 正义可能以 这两种方式，与“善” 联系在一起。 in which justice might be tied to the good 然后，我们讨论其中的一种方式。 and argue for one of them. 康德和Rawls 关于 唯意志论的理念 Now, the voluntarist conception of the person of Kant and Rawls 是多么的有力 和具有解放性。 we saw was powerful and liberating. 他们的理论 另一个更吸引人的地方，是它的普遍愿景。 A further appeal is its universal aspiration. 即 不带偏见，不带歧视， The idea of treating persons as persons 把“人” 当做 “人” 看待， without prejudice, without discrimination, 我认为，这恰恰可能使得 一些人争论说， and I think that’s what led some among us to argue that, “好吧，也许是存在着 成员义务，但他们是在次要的。” okay, maybe there are obligations of membership but they are always subordinate. 成员义务 必须永远处在次要地位， They must always be subordinate 相比 我们作为人本身的 普遍义务，成员义务是次要的 to the duties that we have to human beings as such, the universal duties. 但 是这样子 吗？ But is that right? 如果 忠诚 必须永远 优先于 If our encompassing loyalty should always take precedence 其他特定的义务 over more particular ones, 那么，朋友和陌生人之间的区别 then the distinction between friends and strangers 就理应 不存在了。 should ideally be overcome. 这种对朋友利益的特殊关照，将成为一种偏见， A special concern for the welfare of friends would be a kind of prejudice, 它将成为 衡量人与人之间的距离的 一种尺度。 a measure of our distance from universal human concern 但 假如你仔细地思考一下 这个观点， But if you look closely at that idea, 它把我们引向的，将会是怎样一个道德世界， what kind of a moral universe, what kind of moral imagination, 怎样一种道德构想？ would that lead you to? 由 孟德斯鸠 引发的启蒙运动 The enlightenment flows from Montesquieu 也许给出了一个最有力的.....我认为... gives perhaps the most powerful, and I think, 最终极的、最诚实的解释 the ultimately, the most honest account 它解释了 这种无情的、普遍化的做法 of where this relentless universalizing tendency 将会把我们 引向一个怎样的道德构想世界。 leads the moral imagination. 下面是孟德斯鸠的表述。 Here’s how Montesquieu put it. 他说：“一个真正有道德的人 会帮助 He said, "A truly virtuous man would come to the aid 最疏远的陌生人，就像帮助 他的朋友一样。” of the most distant stranger as quickly as to his own friend." 他还接着说， And then he adds, listen to this, “如果人们是完全高尚的，他们就不会有朋友。” "If men were perfectly virtuous, they wouldn't have friends." 不过，很难想象这样一个世界 But it’s difficult to imagine a world 里面的人们 是如此有道德，以致于他们没有朋友， in which persons were so virtuous that they had no friends, 而只剩下 对所有人都友好的倾向。 only a universal disposition to friendliness. 问题不单单是说，这样一个世界 The problem isn’t simply that such a world 是难以实现的、是不现实的， would be difficult to bring about, that it's unrealistic. 更深层的问题是：这样一个世界 The deeper problem is that such a world 将难以被当成是 一个人类世界。 would be difficult to recognize as a human world. 人之博爱 是一种高尚的情操， The love of humanity is a noble sentiment 但大多数时候，我们是依靠 小范围内的团结 来生活的， but most of the time we live our lives by smaller solidarities. 这也许反映了 道德同情心的某种局限性， This may reflect certain limits to the bounds of moral sympathy, 但更重要的是，它反映了一个事实，即 but more important, it reflects the fact 我们学会关爱别人，不是通过普遍意义的爱（博爱） that we learn to love humanity, not in general, 而是通过 爱的某种具体形式（e.g.友情） but through its particular expressions. 下面列了 一些理由 So these are some considerations. 它们 并不是 压倒性的定论， They’re not knock-down arguments, 道德哲学 也不能提供 压倒性的定论。 but moral philosophy can’t offer knock-down arguments, 这些理由 是我们 but considerations, of the kinds that we've been 一直在讨论和争辩的 discussing and arguing about all along. 我们先假设 它们是正确。 Well, suppose that’s right. 判断 刚才关于个人与义务的构想 One way of assessing whether this picture of the person 是否正确，其中一种方法来就是 看看 and of obligation is right, is to see 它导致的结果 是什么。 what are its consequences for justice. 下面是列举了 一系列问题， And here is where is confronts a serious problem, 我们回到 上次提到的 南方种族隔离主义者。 and here we go back to our southern segregationists. 他们感受到历史���沉重。 They felt the weight of history. 我们值得钦佩 这些种族隔离主义者的品德吗？ Do we admire their character, these segregationists, 这些种族隔离主义者 想保持他们的生活方式。 who wanted to preserve their way of life? 我们能坚定的说..... Are we committed to saying, 如果我们赞成 团体成员义务的观点， if we accept the idea of solidarity and membership, 我们能坚定的说， are we committed to saying 正义 是绝对的 that justice is tied to good in the sense that justice means 不管你是处于 哪个特殊群体，不管他们认为 正义应该是怎样的， whatever a particular community or tradition says it means, 包括那些 种族隔离主义者。 including those southern segregationists. 下面，我们得 区分出两种不同方式， Here it’s important to distinguish two different ways 正义 可以以这两种方式与 “善” 联系在一起。 in which justice can be tied to the good. 其中一种方式是 相对的。 One is a relativist way. 这种方式认为， That’s the way that says, 思考权利，思考正义， to think about rights, to think about justice, 就要看看 过去所有的群体、所有时代里 look to the values that happened to prevail 都占主导的 是什么价值标准 in any given community at any given time. 不能以 某种外部标准来判断， Don’t judge them by some outside standard, 而要 把正义看作是 but instead conceive justice as a matter of being faithful to 所有时代 都一致赞同的看法 the shared understandings of a particular tradition. 但 这种方式有一个问题。 But there’s a problem with this way of tying justice to the good. 也就是 它把正义 完全当作是传统。 The problem is that it makes justice wholly conventional. 把正义 看作是 环境的结果。 A product of circumstance, 它使得 正义 丧失了它关键的特征。 and this deprives justice of its critical character. 而 第二种方式 But there is a second way in which 正义 则与善行相连或相关。 justice can be tied with or bound up with the good. 第二种方式不是相对的，它把正义与 什么是善 联系起来， On a second non-relativist way of linking justice with conceptions of the good, 正义的原则 是否合理，不是依靠 principles of justice depend for their justification not on the values 恰好在某一特定的时刻或某一特定地点 占主导 的价值标准， that happened to prevail at any given moment in a certain place, 而是根据 它是否具有道德价值 或 它的目的是否本质是好的。 but instead on the moral worth or the intrinsic good of the ends rights serve. 以非相对性的观点，来判断是否 认可某个权利 On this non-relativist view the case for recognizing a right 就得看看 depends on showing that 它是否 尊重或促进 某种重要的人类善行。 it honors or advances some important human good. 第二种方式 The second way of tying justice to the good 严格地说，并不属于 社群主义的观点， is not strictly speaking, communitarian, 这里的社群主义 是指 if by communitarian you mean, 让某一特定的团体 来定义什么是正义。 just giving over to a particular community the definition of justice. 我想 Now, what I would like to suggest 在这两种 正义与善行 的关系里， that of these two different ways of linking justice to the good, 第一种是 不足的。 the first is insufficient. 因为 第一种方式 使正义成为了 社会惯例的产物。 Because the first leaves justice the creature of convention. 它没有给我们 充足的道德对策 It doesn't give us enough moral resources 去回应那些 南方种族隔离主义者 to respond to those southern segregationists 他们祈求 保持他们的生活方式，他们的传统， who invoke their way of life, their traditions, 他们做事的方式。 their way of doing things. 然而，如果 正义以 非相对性的方式与善行相连， But if justice is bound up with the good in a non-relativist way, 这就有个很大的挑战，需要回答一个很重要的问题。 there is a big challenge, a big question to answer. 我们怎样才能 定义 善？ How can we reason about the good? 人们对 善 持有不同概念，我们怎么看待这个事实？ What about the fact that people hold different conceptions of the good? 关于主要社会制度的目的，人们有不同的看法 Different ideas about the purposes of key social institutions. 怎样的善行 才是值得尊重和认可的， Different ideas about what social goods and human goods 人们有不同的看法 are worthy of honor and recognition. 我们活在一个多元社会里，人们对善有争议。 We live in a pluralist society, people disagree about the good. 这也是激励人们 尝试找到 不依赖于 任何特定目的、意义的 That’s one of the incentives to try to find principles of justice and rights 正义和权力的准则 的其中一个原因 that don’t depend on any particular ends or purposes or goods. 那么，是否有某种方法 来定义善呢？ So is there a way to reason about the good? 在解决这个问题之前， Before addressing that question, 我想 先解决一个 稍微简单一点的问题： I want to address a slightly easier question. 当我们讨论到正义，是否有必要、是否不可避免的 Is it necessary, is it unavoidable, when arguing about justice， 就要涉及到 善？ to argue about the good? 我对这个问题的回答是：是的，是不可避免的， is yes, it’s unavoidable. And my answer to that question 是必要的。 It's necessary. 今天接下来的时间，我想开始.... So for the remainder of today, I want to take up... 我想尝试 进一步来思考 这个观点 I want to try to advance that claim, 这个观点即 当我们讨论正义的时候 that reasoning about the good, about purposes, and ends, 我们不可避免的 要涉及到 善、意义和目的 is an unavoidable feature of arguing about justice, 这是必要的。 it’s necessary. 让我们来看看 我是否可以 确定这一点 Let me see if I can establish that. 为此，我想和大家展开一场讨论，关于同性婚姻。 And for that I’d like for us to begin a discussion of same sex marriage. 当前，同性婚姻引发和涉及了 Now, same sex marriage draws on, implicates, 许多 一直在争议的观点， deeply contested and controversial ideas, 道德上的，宗教上的。 morally and religiously. 在这个问题上，我们十分想 And so there’s a powerful incentive 接受一种 正义或权利的观点 to embrace a conception of justice or of rights 而不需要 整个社会 以这样或那样的方式来 that doesn’t require the society as a whole to pass judgment, one way or another, 评价 这些备受争议的道德和宗教问题。 on those hotly contested moral and religious questions. 例如 对同性恋的道德容许度 的问题， About the moral permissibility of homosexuality. 关于 把婚姻的目的 作为一个社会惯例。 About the proper ends of marriage as a social institution. 所以，很显然，如果能解决这个问题， So, clearly, if there’s an incentive to resolve this question, 而不牵涉到 把社会作为一个整体 to define people’s rights in a way that doesn’t require the society as a whole 来解答 那些道德的和宗教的争论， to sort out those moral and religious disputes 那将会是十分的吸引人。 that would be very attractive. 现在 我想做的是， So what I would like to do now is to see, 在 同性婚姻 这个例子中 using the same sex marriage case, 是否可能 在思考 whether it’s possible to detach one’s use 对同性恋的道德容许度 about the moral permissibility of homosexuality and about 以及 婚姻的意义、目的 的时候， the purpose, the end of marriage, 把上述问题和下面的问题分开来看： detach those questions from the question of 国家是否应当 承认同性婚姻。 whether the state should recognize same sex marriage or not. 我们的讨论开始了。 So let's begin. 我想 先听听 I would like to begin by hearing the arguments of those 那些认为 同性婚姻不应当存在 who believe that there should be no same sex marriage 国家应该只承认 男人与女人之间的婚姻。 but that the state should only recognize marriage between a man and a woman. 有谁发言的吗？我找到两个了 Do I have volunteers? I had two. 我曾经问过两个人， There were two people I asked, 他们已经在我们网上的博客上，发表了他们的观点。 people who had voiced their views already on the justice blog. Mark Loff 和Ryan McCaffrey，你们在哪里？ Mark Loff and Ryan McCaffrey where are you? 好的，Mark。 那么Ryan在哪儿？ Okay, Mark. And where is Ryan? 好吧，让我们先听听Mark。 Alright, let’s go first to Mark. 对于性的意义 和 婚姻的意义， I have sort of a theological understanding of 我有神学方面的理解。 the purpose of sex and the purpose of marriage. 我认为，对于像我这种， 既是基督教徒又是天主教徒 的人来说， And I think that for people like myself, who are a a Christian and also a Catholic, 性的意义：第一，有生殖的作用， the purpose of sex is, one, for its procreative uses, 第二，让男女之间 在婚姻制度里 相互结合。 and two, for a unifying purpose between a man and a woman within the institution of marriage. 你认为婚姻的目的是... You have a certain conception of the purpose or the telos...- Yeah. 与生殖相联系在一起的 ...of human sexuality, which is bound up with procreation. 是的 Right. 以及 使得男女结合。是的 As well as union. - Yeah. 作为一种社会传统，婚姻的本质与目标 And the essence of marriage, the purpose of marriage as a social institution 就是实现 这个目的 is to give expression to that telos 去尊崇这个目的——婚姻的目的即繁衍 and to honor that purpose, namely, the procreative purpose of marriage. 我是否 把你的观点概括出来了？是的 Is that a fair summary of your view? - Yeah. Ryan在哪？请说。 Where is Ryan? Go ahead. 你是否同意马克的理由？ Do you agree more or less with Mark’s reasons? 是的，我同意。 Yes, I agree. 我认为，理想的婚姻是包含生殖的， I think that the ideal of marriage involves procreation. 当然，我也觉得同性恋 同居 也没有什么问题， And it’s fine that, homosexuals would go off and cohabitate with each other 但政府没有责任 去鼓励大家这样去做 but the government doesn’t have a responsibility to encourage that. 好的，政府不应该 承认同性恋婚姻 All right, so the government should not encourage 来鼓励同性恋行为。 homosexual behavior by conferring the recognition of marriage. 如果把同性恋婚姻 视为非法，当然是不对的，但也不需要去鼓励大家这么做。 Yeah, it would be wrong to outlaw it but encouraging it is not necessary. 有人想回应吗？ Who has a reply? 好。 Yes. Hannah？ Hannah? 我想问 Mark一个问题。 I just like to ask a question to Mark. 如果你与一个女人结婚， Let’s say you got married to a woman, 你们两人婚前 并没有发生过性行为， you did not have sex with her before marriage, 但结婚后，你发现 and then when you became married it became evident that 你们不能生育。 you’re an infertile couple. 那你是否认为，如果你们两人做爱，却无法繁衍后代的话， Do you think that it should illegal for you to engage in sex 你们的婚姻还合法吗？ if children will not result from that act? 是的，我认为这是道德的，这也是为什么我认为婚姻的目的有两种。 Yeah, I think that it is moral and that’s why I gave the two-fold purpose. 比方说，一个女人.. So like a woman, say... 两个年纪都比较大的人结婚， I think older couples can get married, 一个已经过了更年期 someone... a woman who’s beyond... 没有生育能力 的女人 she has already had menopause and who can’t have a child, 那样的两性关系 because I think that sex has these... 其目的已经超出了生殖。 It has purposes beyond procreation. 尽管我讨厌粗俗无礼，但我想问 你是否手淫过？ I hate to be uncouth but have you ever engaged in masturbation? 你不一定要回答 You don’t have to answer that. 好 Right, make your... 我想回应一下。 I’d like to respond to that. 我们整个学期 都进展的很顺利 Wait. We’ve done pretty well over a whole semester 我们深入讨论了一些 and we’re doing pretty well now dealing with 在其它大学里，大多数的学生都不会讨论的问题。 questions that most people think can’t even be discussed to any university settting Hannah，你的这个观点很有力 and, Hannah, you’ve got, you have a powerful point. 你可以把它 用一般化的论点 陈述出来， Make that point as a general argument rather than, 而不是 以疑问句的形式 表达。 Rather than as an interrogative. 好的，请说 Okay. - But make the point. 你提出的 原则是什么？ What’s the principle that you’re appealing? 你脑中的想法是什么？ What’s the argument you have in mind? 好的，圣经上......请用第三人称代指。 Alrightt. Well, biblically...- Put it in the third person. 好的。 Yeah, okay. - Rather than... 不要使用第二人称 这样表达。 ...Rather than in a second person. Make the argument. 圣经上指出，手淫是不被允许的 Okay. Biblically, masturbation or onanism, is not permissible 因为 手淫等于是在 把种子撒在地上 because it’s spilling your seed on the earth 而不会生出孩子。 when it’s not going to result in the birth of a child. 你说，性如果不产生后代 But what I’m saying is, you’re saying that sex, 或者 不能强化 婚姻的纽带作用 there’s something wrong with sex if it doesn’t produce children 就是有问题的。 是的。 or reinforce the marriage bond. - Right. 那你怎么可以说 But then how can you say that there’s something wrong, 手淫是可以被允许的行为，因为很明显， that masturbation is permissible, if masturbation, obviously, 手淫不能产生孩子 is not going to create a child? 我认为，婚姻是社会的一种习俗 I think marriage is society’s way to create a separate institution 而我们把它当作 是一种美德来坚守。 where they say this is what we hold as a virtue. 每天我们都会犯错误， Yes, every day we fall short and people fall short 人类在很多方面都会有不足， in so many different other ways, 但我想，即便你犯下小错， but I think that if you personally fall short, 你有一些道德上的问题 （我们都会有） and some morals fear, as we all do, 这并不能说明，你所认为的都是错的。 that doesn’t take the right of you to argue. 好的，你待在那儿。 All right, I want you, to stay there. 我想听听其它人的看法，然后继续我们的讨论。 I want to bring in some other voices and we'll continue. 请待在那儿。请讲。 Stay there if you would. Go ahead. 我想回答一下，关于手淫的问题 I think that the response to the masturbation- 好的，请告诉我们你叫什么。我叫Steve。 Wait, tell us your name.- My name's Steve. Steve，请说 Steve, go ahead. 对于手淫的话题，我的回应是： The response to the masturbation issue is, 这不是一个允不允许人们手淫的问题， it’s not something that’s permissible. 我不认为，大家都觉得 同性恋行为是不被允许的。 I don’t think anyone will argue that homosexual sex is impermissible. 这只是说，如果 你要手淫，社会也没办法 It’s just that society has no place in letting you marry yourself 让你和你自己结婚。 if masturbation is something that you do. 好的，Hannah。 Well, all right, Hannah. 好的，Steve已经......这是一个很好的观点。 Alright, Steve has drawn... Alright, that's a good argument. Steve已经让我们注意到，这其实是两个问题， Steve has drawn our attention to the fact that there are two issues here. 其中一个是，某一行为 是否是道德允许的。 One of them is the moral permissibility of various practices. 另一个是，国家应不应该 The other is the fit between certain practices, 通过将（同性恋）婚姻合法化， whatever their moral permissibility, with the honor or recognition 不管它 在道德上是否是 允许的。 that the state should accord in allowing marriage. Steve做了一个非常好的反驳。 So Steve has a pretty good counter argument. 你怎么反驳Steve呢？ What do you say to Steve? 我想，一件很明显的事情就是，人类的性需求 Well, I think that it’s clear that human sexuality 是大多数人 内在需要的东西 is something that is inherent in, I believe, most people 这是我们 不可避免的。 and it’s not something you can avoid. 而手淫，我的意思是，你确实不能和自己结婚， And masturbation, I mean, yeah, you can’t marry yourself 但我不认为，这否定了一个事实， but I don’t think that takes away from the fact that 即 同性恋也是人 homosexuals are people too. 我不理解，他们为什么不能互相结婚。 And I can’t understand why they wouldn’t be able to marry each other. 如果你想和你自己结婚， If you want to marry yourself, 我不知道 法律是否允许这种行为 I mean, I don’t know if you can legally do that. 我不认为这样有什么问题，但是我不认为.....等一下，等一下..... That’s fine but I don’t think- - Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! 我们现在正在决定、正在商量的事情是 Now, here we’re deciding, here we’re deliberating 如果我们是立法者，法律应该怎么制定 as if legislators, what the law should be. 你说，Steve，那是可以的。 So you said, Steve, that’s fine. 这是不是说，如果你是立法者的话， Does that mean as a legislator you would vote 你会投票赞成，制定一部 定义非常广泛的婚姻法， for a law of marriage that would be so broad 让那些 想和自己结婚的人 结婚。 that it would let people marry themselves? 我想，现实中不大可能 Well, I mean, that’s really beyond the pale of anything 发生这种事情， that would really happen 但我不认为......但在原则上 but I don't think that- - But in principle. 在原则上? 是的。 Yeah, in principle? - Yes. 当然，如果Steve想和他自己结婚 Yeah, sure, I mean if Steve wants to marry himself 我不会去阻止他。 I'm not going to stop him. 你会要求 国家承认这种 单人婚姻吗？ And you would confer state recognition on that solo marriage? 会的。 Sure. 如果我们都同意这点的话， And while we’re at it, 那 多配偶制的婚姻呢，只要他们双方是自愿的？ what about consensual polygamous marriages? 我认为，只要一男一女， I actually think that if the male and the female, 一夫多妻，一妻多夫 or that if the wives and the man, of the husbands and the wife 他们彼此都同意，那就应该得到允许。 are consenting, it should be permissible. 还有其它人要发��吗，这有许多人....... Who else? I know there are a lot of people who... 好的，这儿。 Yes, okay, down here. 请站起来 告诉大家你叫什么。 Stand up and tell us your name. Victoria。 Victoria。 Victoria. - Victoria. 我们谈论的是，婚姻的神学理由 So we’re talking about the theological reasoning here for marriage 但我想，大家针对的主要是天主教的婚姻观。 but I think the problem is that we’re talking about it within the Catholic viewpoint. 然而其他不同的宗教， Whereas, the theological, and the point to marriage 以及无神论者 for another religion or someone who’s an atheist 对婚姻都有着不同的观点。 could be completely different. 所以政府不能把 And the government doesn’t have a right to impose 天主教对婚姻的解释 强加到我们头上。 the theological reasoning for Catholicism on everyone in the state. 我们现在的问题是 允不允许同性婚姻。 Which is what my problem is with not allowing same sex marriage. 我的意思是，因为你有你自己的信仰，这没问题。 Because, I mean, you’re beliefs are your beliefs, and that’s fine, 但是公民之间的结合，不仅仅 只局限在 天主教教堂内的婚姻 这一种形式上。 but civil union is not marriage within the Catholic Church. 国家有权来承认，任何一种结合，只要结合的双方愿意， And the state has a right to recognize a civil union between whoever it wants, 但国家无权 but does not have a right 将大多数或少数人的信仰 to impose the beliefs of a certain minority or majority of whoever it is 强加到 其他人身上。 based on religion within our state. 好的，Victoria。 有一个问题。 Alright, Victoria, good. A question. 你认为国家应该 承认 同性恋婚姻吗？ Do you think the state should recognize same sex marriage 或者仅仅是承认 同性恋者的结合（婚姻的一种形式）？ or just same sex civil unions as something short of marriage? 我觉得，国家无权 在教堂里 承认这项婚姻， Well, I think that the state doesn’t have a right to recognize it as marriage within a church, 因为这不是他们 该在的地方。 because that is not their place. 而公民之间的结合就不同了，我认为公民相互结合， But whereas civil union, I see civil union as essentially the same thing 除了 国家有权认可 公民相互结合 这点不同以外，在本质上 和婚姻是一样的。 except not under a religion and that state has a right to recognize a civil union. 好的，所以Victoria的观点是，政府不应该 Alright, so, Victoria’s argument is that the state should not try to 去决定 婚姻的终极目标是什么。 decide the question of what the telos of marriage is. 这个只是 那些宗教团体 可以决定的。 That’s only something that religious communities can decide. 还有其它人吗？ Who else? 我的观点是，我认为 My point is I don’t see why you feel like 国家不应该 承认 任何类型的婚姻。 the state should recognize marriages at all. 我是刚才那 70个人的投票认为 I’m like one of the 70 people who voted 国家不应该 承认任何形式的婚姻， that the state should not recognize any marriages 因为这种结合 是男女之间的 because I believe it is a union between male and a female 或者是2个男人、2个女人之间的事。 or two males or two females. 没有理由要求政府 来赐予准许。 But there’s no reason to ask the state to give permission to me to unite myself. 有些人也许会指出，如果政府承认这些婚姻， And some might say that, if the state recognizes these marriages, 将会有益于我们的后代，它会给给夫妻双方 产生约束力。 it will help children, it will have a binding effect. 但事实上，我不认为 这会有什么约束力。 But in reality, I don’t think it actually has a binding effect. 好了，告诉大家你叫什么。Cezanne。 Alright, tell us your name. - Cezanne. Victoria与Cezanne的评论 So, Victoria and Cezanne’s comments 同我们起初的讨论 有所不同。 differ from earlier parts of the conversation. 他们指出 They say 政府不应该 the state shouldn’t be in the business 推崇、承认 of honoring or recognizing or affirming 婚姻和性 的任何特定目的 any particular telos, or purpose of marriage, or of human sexuality. Cezanne 等人认为， And Cezanne is among those who says, 因此，政府不应该 therefore, maybe the state should get out of the business 插手 任何形式的婚姻。 of recognizing marriage at all. 这有个问题。 Here’s the question. 除非你承认Cezanne的观点， Unless, you adopt Cezanne’s position, 即 政府不应承认 任何婚姻， no state recognition of any kind of marriage, 那是否 有可能 is it possible to choose between... 在思考 同性婚姻的问题的时候， ...to decide the question of same sex marriage 撇开 道德或宗教上 without taking a stand on the moral and religious controversy 对 婚姻目的的争论？ over the proper telos of marriage. 谢谢大家今天的参与。 Thank you very much to all of you who have participated. 大家今天表现非常好，我们将在下一次课上继续讨论。 We’ll pick this up next time. You did a great job. 像一个凡人那样活着，像一个诗人那样体验，像一个哲人那样思考。 我们还有两个问题 要回答 We have two remaining questions to answer. 第一个，在考虑正义的时候 First, is it necessary, is it unavoidable 是不是 需要先探讨什么是“善”的生活？答案是：是的 to take up questions of the good life in thinking about justice? Yes. 这是否能 推理出正义呢？ And is it possible to reason about justice? 是的，我这么认为。 Yes, I think so. 让我们尝试 解答这两个问题。 Let me try to develop those answers to those two questions. 为了解答这些问题，我们上次谈到了 Now, as a way of addressing those questions, we began last time 同性婚姻的问题。 to discuss the question of same sex marriage. 之前 我们听过了 反对同性婚姻的意见， And we heard from those who argued against same sex marriage 他们的理由是 婚姻的目的 on the grounds that the purpose, or telos, or marriage 至少一部分是为了 繁衍后代， is at least in part, procreation, 抚养孩子。 the bearing and raising of children. 而那些为 同性婚姻 辩护的人 And then there were those who defended same sex marriage 他们对 婚姻的目的 进行了争辩， and they contested that account of the purpose, or telos, of marriage 他们说，我们并没有把 夫妻有能力或愿意生儿育女 arguing we don’t require as a condition of heterosexual marriage 作为 结婚的条件。 that couples be able or willing to procreate. 我们允许 无法生育的夫妻结婚。 We allow infertile couples to marry. 这是Hannah 在回应Mark时，所持的观点。 This was Hannah's point in the exchange with Mark. 在讨论的最后， Then there was another position Victoria 提出了另外一个观点。 expressed at the end our discussion by Victoria, 她认为，我们不应该 为这个问题做决定， who argued we shouldn't try to decide this question. 我们不应该，至少是国家不应该，法律不应该， We shouldn't, at least at the level of the state, at the level of law, 在什么是“好”的问题上，观点达成一致。 try to come to any agreement on those questions about the good 我们生活在一个多元社会， because we live in a pluralist society 我们有着 不同的道德和宗教信仰。 where people had different moral and religious convictions. 我们制定法律的时候 And so we should try to make law in the framework of rights, 应该在 不同的道德观和宗教价值之间，保持中立。 neutral with respect to these competing moral and religious views. 有趣的是，有些人 Now, it's interesting that others, some others, 他们赞成保持中立 who favor the idea of neutrality 他们说，他们既不支持将 婚姻限定在男女之间， argued, not in favor of restricting marriage to a man and a woman, 也不支持同性婚姻， nor in favor of permitting same sex marriage, 他们以 中立为口号， they argued in the name of neutrality, 要求有 第三种做法， for a third possibility. 那就是 政府不再插手 婚姻这件事 Which is that government get out of the business 政府无需承认 任何种类的婚姻。 of recognizing any kind of marriage. 这是第三种可能。 That was the third possibility. 后来，Andrea Mayrose 提出了一个有意思的观点， Now, Andrea Mayrose had an interesting contribution to this debate. 她反驳了 那些中立主义者。 She had a rejoinder to people who argue for neutrality. Andrea 你在哪里？ Where is Andrea? 好的，Andrea，你愿意... Alright, Andrea, would you be willing... 和我们分享一下你的观点。 给她一个麦克风。 Share with us the view. If we can get you a microphone. 请说。 Share with us your view. 为什么你认为 Why do you think that 国家想要 在道德、甚至宗教问题上， it's a mistake for the state to try to be neutral 比如同性恋婚姻这个问题上， 保持中立是错误的？ moral and even religious questions like same sex marriage? 我不知道 国家是否可以做到 保持中立， I don't know that it is possible 因为人们的生活 同他们的世界观 密不可分。 because people's lives are completely embedded in how they view the world. 也许 我只是同意亚里斯多德的观点， And maybe I just agree with Aristotle that 即 政府的角色是帮助人们活得... the role of the government is helping people live in a sort of... 对 什么是错的、什么是对的 能有一种共识。 Having a collective understanding what is wrong and what is right. 像同性恋婚姻 这个问题一样， Is it possible, and one could ask the same question of abortion, 我们也可以问 关于堕胎的问题 that we've been asking of same sex marriage. 你是否认为，我们可以决定 Do you think it's possible 堕胎 应不应该得到 准许或禁止 to decide whether abortion should be permitted or prohibited 而不需要对 堕胎是否符合道德 without taking a stand or making a judgment 这个问题上 做出评价和判断？ about the moral permissibility of abortion? 不，我不认为有这样的可能。我认为，这个问题存在 如此大的争议 No, I don't think it is and I think that's why it's such a controversy 正是因为 人们对 一个胎儿是不是一条生命 because people are so deeply committed to, 这一看法 深深的影响着他们的判断。 their fundamental beliefs about whether a fetus is a life or if it isn't. 如果我相信 一个胎儿有生命， If I believe that, a fetus is a living being and 有生存的基本权利， has rights and has fundamentally the right to live, 那么对我而言，我很难说得出口： then it's very hard for me to say, “我可以置之度外，你去做 你想做的事情吧” "But I can put that aside and let you do what you want," 因为 这相当于在说： because that's like me saying, “不管我的信仰是什么，你去做 在我看来是谋杀的事情 吧。” "well, despite my beliefs, I'm going to let you commit what to me is murder." 所以，我认为， So, I mean, that's just one... 好的，同性婚姻 同样也是这个道理， Alright, and the analogy in the same sex marriage case is, 你说，你是支持 同性婚姻。 是的。 you said, you're a defender of same sex marriage. - Yes. 你得出这个观点 But you only came to that view 只是因为 你在基本的道德问题上 被说服了 once you were persuaded on the underlying moral question. 好的，我认为，在美国， Right, well, I think particularly, in the US 有许多人的信念 是被他们的宗教信仰所驱动的， so many people's beliefs are driven by their religious beliefs 就像那天发言的Mark，我也是一个基督教徒，我也是个天主教徒， and like Mark the other day, I'm a Christian, I'm Catholic, 我不得不做 很多思考， and I had to decide for myself on a lot of thought, 做很多祈祷，同其他人进行了大量的交谈， a lot of prayer, a lot of conversations with other people 最好得出结论说，我不同意天主教的论点 that I disagreed with the Catholic standpoint 我不认为 同性恋是一桩罪恶。 that homosexuality itself isn't a sin. 一旦 我最后得出 那样的结论..... And once I came to that, sort of conclusion, in my personal relationship with god, 这看起来有点夸张，是吧？这就像是有点，oh，宗教狂的味道。 I mean, that's sounds hokey, right? That's like, oh, religious! 但是有许多人是信教的， But a lot of people are religious and 他们的信念和他们的观点 都是来源于宗教 that's where they draw theif beliefs and their views from. 我赞同国家 做出决定 That's when I could say, yeah, I'm down with the state saying, “同性恋婚姻合法化！” "Go same sex marriage!" 因为我认为，这在道德上没有问题。 because I'm okay with that and I think that's morally okay. 好的，谢谢你。 Good, thank you. 好的，谁想回应一下？ Now, who would like to reply? 如果可以的话，在那里稍等一会。 If you can, perhaps, hang on there for a moment. 谁想回应 Andrea的发言？ Who would like to reply to Andrea's idea 她说，为了决定 同性恋婚姻合法化的问题 that in order to decide the question of same sex marriage, 我们有必要先解决 it's necessary to sort out the question about the 同性恋 是否道德这个问题， moral status of homosexuality 还要找出婚姻的目的何在。 and figuring out the purpose, the telos, the proper end, of marriage. 谁不同意Andrea的观点？ Who disagrees with Andrea on that point? 好的。 Yes. 我想，你完全可以 将你的道德观点，以及 Well, I think you absolutely can separate your moral opinion 你对法律应该怎样制定， 把这两者区分开来。 and what you think the law should be. 比方说，我认为堕胎是 For example, I think abortion is 在道德上是 完全错误的。 unequivocally morally wrong. 但我不认为，将堕胎非法化 能杜绝这个现象。 But I do not believe that illegalizing abortion makes it go away. 我不认为，将堕胎非法化 能中止这种行为。 I don't believe illegalizing abortion stops it. 因此，我赞同堕胎合法化。我相信，妇女应该有这样的权利 And, therefore, I am pro choice and I do believe the woman should have the choice 这样就使堕胎更为安全，（注：这句翻译可能不太正确） as it gives it more safety just as, 可能，我不想同一个男人结婚， maybe, morally, I don't want to get married to a man, 但我也不会 but I'm not going try to, 阻止其他人 在法律范围内 做自己想要做事情。 impede someone else's freedom to do what they wish to do in terms of the law. Andrea，你怎么看？ Andrea? 无论法律是把它定为 合法或非法， Whether the law makes something legal or illegal, 它都是在隐含地 赞成或不赞成某些事情。 it's implicitly approving or disapproving something. 所以，如果让堕胎合法化的话，我们就是在说堕胎是无可争议的 So if you say, by making abortion legal, we're saying it's okay. 作为一个社会整体，我们相当于在说，在我们的社会中 As a society, collectively, we're saying it's okay with us in our society 把一个胎儿打掉 并没有什么不妥。 to abort a fetus. 如果我们宣布它非法，那等于是说 我们的社会认为 If we make it illegal, then we're saying collectively as a society 这么做是有问题的。这就是为什么社会有不同的信仰。 it's not okay, and that's why societies have different beliefs. 请告诉我们你的名字 我的名字是Daniel。 Tell us your name before you...- My name is Daniel. Daniel，你怎么说？ Daniel, what do you say? 这是不是等于说 我们集体上同意 堕胎没问题？ Are we saying collectively that it's okay? 还是说，我们不希望 Or are we saying that collectively we don't want 那些 打算要做堕胎手术 的妇女 women who are going to have an aboration anyway 要去一些坊间的小诊所 to go to clinics in the side alleys 在不安全的条件下 堕胎呢？ and have unsafe conditions? 好的，让我们回到 同性婚姻 这个话题上来 Alright, bring it to the same sex marriage case. 为什么你不得不 在是否赞成 把同性婚姻合法化 这个问题上 Why don't you have to decide that which position you're in favor of 确定你的立场，Daniel ？ same sex marriage, Daniel, being legally permitted? 我认为，同性婚姻 应该毫无疑问 得到准许 I think it absolutely should be legally permitted 因为 这并不是说.... because it's not something telling me that I need to have... 我非得娶一个男人不可。 I need to marry a man. 如果两个大男人 自愿的想要结婚， I absolutely don't, I don't see, if two men are consenting adults and want to get married, 我想不出 我有什么理由去反对它。 I don't see how I could even object to that. 好的，这没什么坏处。 Alright, there's no harm. There's no harm done. 我们两者都没什么坏处。 There's no harm done either way, 即使我认为， 这种做法在道德上是错的 even if it is morally wrong according to me. 好的，让我们看看 马萨诸塞州法庭的判决， Alright, let me turn to the way the Massachusetts court, 他们在同性婚姻案子上 做出了一个标志性的判决 who made this landmark ruling in the same sex marriage case, 刚才Andrea和Dan 讨论的这个问题 grappled with the very issue that Andrea and Dan had been discussing here. 非常谢谢你们两位。 Thanks to both of you very much. 法庭 是怎么说的呢？ What did the court say? 在Goodridge一案中， This was in the Goodridge case which 要求马萨诸塞州 required the state of Massachusetts 承认 同性恋婚姻。 to extend marriage to same sex couples. 法庭的意见是这么说的... 法官内部也意见不一， The court started out, well, the court was conflicted. 如果你仔细读过他们的判决，你会发现， If you read that opinion carefully, 法院也在 我们刚讨论过的两种意见中 徘徊。 the court was conflicted as between the two positions we've just been hearing, 即 Andrea和Dan的意见。 defended by Andrea and by Dan. Margaret Marshall大法官的意见是这样的， The court begins, and this is Chief Justice Margaret Marshall's opinion, 我们应该持 中立的态度 it begins with an attempt at liberal neutrality. 许多人都有很深的 宗教、道德和伦理观念 Many people hold deep-seated religious, moral and ethical convictions 认为婚姻应该局限在 一男一女之间， that marriage should be limited to the union of one man and one woman, 同性恋行为 是不道德的。 and that homosexual conduct is immoral. 另外，也有许多人 同样有很深的 宗教、道德和伦理观念 Many hold equally strong religous, moral, and ehtical convictions 认为同性恋者 也有权结婚， that same sex souples are entitled to be married, 同性恋应该得到 无差别的对待 that homosexual persons should be treated no differently 就像他们的异性恋者一样，得到公平对待。 than their heterosexual neighbors. This is the court. 这两种观点都并没有回答 我们的问题。 Neither view answers the question before us. 关键点在于 “在法律下，尊重个人的自主和平等” What is at stake is "respect for individual autonomy and equality under law." 关键的是 一个个体自由选择另外一个人， At stake is an individual freely choosing the person with whom 为其作出专一的承诺（婚姻）。 to share an exclusive commitment. 换句话说，问题不在于 这一做法是否符合道德 In other words, the issue is not the moral worth of the choice 而在于 个体是否有权利 作出这样的选择。 but the right of the individual to make it. 这就是 法庭所持的中立意见。 So this is the liberal neutral strand in the court opinion, 自愿主义的立场，即尊重人们的 voluntarist strand, the one that emphasizes 自主、选择和同意的权利。 autonomy, choice, consent. 但是法庭似乎认识到，自由主义的、中立的观点， But the court seemed to realize that the liberal case, the neutral case, 在同性婚姻合法化 这个案件上，并没有获得成功。 for recognizing same sex marriage doesn't succeed, 并没有完全实现 个人的自主和自由选择， doesn't get you all the way to that position, 因为如果这只是 关于尊重个人自主权的事情， because if it were only a matter of respect for individual autonomy, 如果政府真的 对人们自愿建立的亲密关系 if government were truly neutral on the moral worth 持中立态度的话， of voluntary intimate relationships, 那么就应该采取 另外一种政策。 then it should adopt a different policy. 也就是 政府和国家应该 Which is to remove government and the state all together 完全不插手这件事，无需去承认 某些特定的婚姻 from according recognition to certain associations, 而不承认 另外的一些婚姻 certain kinds of unions, rather than others. 如果政府 真的是中立的话， If government really must be neutral, 那么 它的立场应该是 then the consistent position is what we here 我们先前讨论过的 第三种立场， have been describing as the third position, 即 Michael Kinsley在文章中所支持的立场。 the one defended in the article by Michael Kinsley, 他认为应该 废除婚姻制度， who argues for the abolition of marriage, 至少是不应成为 一种国家职能。 at least as a state function. 也许，“政教分离” 是个更好的表达。 Perhaps a better term for this is the disestablishment of religion. 这是Kinsley的建议。 This is Kinsley's proposal. 他指出，反对同性婚姻的理由就是 He points out that the reason for the opposition to same sex marriage 这超出了 中立立场， is that it would go beyond neutral toleration 为了 同性婚姻 盖上认可的公章。 and give same sex marriage a government stamp of approval. 这就是争议的核心。 That's at the heart of the dispute. 在亚里斯多德看来，这里的问题在于 In Aristotle's terms, at issue here 职位和荣誉应该怎样 合理分配， is the proper distribution of offices and honors, 它是关乎 社会认可的事情。 a matter of social recognition. 同性婚姻被认可 不能 Same sex marriage can't be justified 单单建立在 中立、反歧视 或自主权 这些基础之上， on the basis of liberal neutrality or non-discrimination or autonomy rights alone 因为 这个公共议题的关键是 because the question at stake in the public debate 同性婚姻 有没有道德价值 is whether same sex unions have moral worth, 同性婚姻 是否应 得到尊重和认可， whether they're worthy of honor and recognition, 它们是否符合 婚姻制度的目标。 and whether they fit the purpose of the social institution of marriage. 所以Kinsley说，你想要中立？ So Kinsley says, you want to be neutral? 如果想，就让教堂和其他宗教社团 来提供结婚仪式。 Then, let churches and other religous institutions offer marriage ceremonies. 如果 百货公司或者赌场 也想介入这行，也可以让它们去做。 Let department stores and casinos get into the act if they want to. 这就是Kinsley的观点。 This is Kinsley. 让两口子 自由选择 他们庆祝结合的仪式 Let couples celebrate their union in any way they choose 让他们决定 什么时候��婚。 and consider themselves married whenever they want. 如果 三个人想要结婚， And if three people want to get married, 或者 如果一个人 想要跟自己结婚， or if one person wants to marry himself or herself, 而其他人 想要为他们举行庆典， and someone else wants to conduct a ceremony for them 宣布他们结婚，都随他们去做。 and declare them married, let them. 如果你和你的政府 都没有牵连进去，你还操心什么？ If you and your government aren't implicated, what do you care? 这就是Kinsley的意见。 This is Kinsley. 但 这不是马萨诸塞州最高法院 But this is not the position that the Supreme Judicial Court 想要的立场。 of Massachusetts wanted. 他们并没有要求 废除婚姻制度，或者政教分离。 They didn't call for the abolition or for the disestablishment of marriage. 法院并没有 质疑政府 The court did not question government's role in conferring 承认某些结合形式，而不承认其他婚姻形式的角色 social recognition on some intimate associations rather than others. 相反， To the contrary, 法庭对 婚姻制度赞颂有加，说 the court waxes eloquent about marriage as, “（婚姻）是我们社会最赞赏、最珍视的制度。” "one of our community's most rewarding and cherished institutions." 然后他们把婚姻的定义 扩大化 And then it goes on to expand the definition of marriage 把同性伴侣 也包括了进去。 to include partners of the same sex. 他们这样的做法，承认了 And in doing so it acknowledges 婚姻不仅仅是一个 that marriage is more than a matter 包容 每个人的选择的问题。 of tolerating choices that individuals make. 它也是一个关于 社会承认的问题。 It's also a matter of social recognition and honor. Marshall法官写道， As Justice Marshall wrote. 在每一桩民事婚姻中 都有三个参与者： In a real sense there are three partners to every civil marriage: 配偶双方，以及 对此加以承认的国家。 two willing spouses and an approving state. 婚姻既是一个 个人的深度承诺， Marriage is at once a deeply personal cimmitment, 也是公众对 理想的、 but also a highly public celebration of the ideals of 伴侣关系、亲密、忠实和家庭的 一种庆祝方式。 mutuality, companionship, intimacy, fidelity, and family. 这就是法庭的意见。 This is the court. 这不仅仅是 自由派的中立立场， Now, this is reaching well beyond liberal neutrality. 它还将婚姻 看做是一种值得尊敬的 This is celebrating and affirming marriage as an honorific, 一种社会认可的形式 。 as a form of public recognition. 因此，法官们发现 他们不可避免的 And, therefore, the court found that it couldn't avoid the debate 要对婚姻的目的 进行争论。 about the telos of marriage. Marshall法官的意见 考虑到、也反对 Justice Marshall's opinion considers and rejects the notion 婚姻的首要目的是为了繁衍 这个观点 that the primary purpose of marriage is procreation. 她指出，一对异性恋男女 She points out that there is no requirement 在申请结婚证书的时候，国家没有要求他们 that applicants for marriage license, who are heterosexuals, 证明自己 有能力或有意愿 生小孩。 attest to their ability or their intention to conceive children. 生孩子 并不是婚姻的前提条件。 Fertility is not a condition of marriage. 有些人就快要死了，还结婚来着。 People who cannot stir from their deathbed, they marry. 所以，她思考了所有这些意见， So she advances all kinds of arguments, 包括我们上节课讨论过的那些意见， along the lines that we began last time, 关于 婚姻的内在本质和目的所在。 about the proper and the essential nature, the telos of marriage, is. 她总结说，繁衍不是婚姻的目的， And she concludes, not procreation 专一、永久的伴侣关系 but the exclusive and permanent commitment of the partners to one another 才是 婚姻的本质和目的。 is the essential point and purpose of marriage. 我现在所说的 这个法院的意见 Now, nothing I've said about this court opinion 还并没有表明 支持或反对同性婚姻。 is an argument for or against same sex marriage. 但是它却反对了一件事 But it is an argument against the claim 那就是 你可以在道德和宗教问题上 保持中立 that you can favor or oppose same sex marriage 与此同时 又能支持或反对 同性婚姻。 while remaining neutral on the underlying moral and religious questions. 所有这些论述表明， So all of this is to suggest 至少 在一些十分激烈的争论中， that at least in some of the hotly contested debates 在争论着 我们社会中的 正义或权利问题 的时候， about justice and rights that we have in our society, 想要保持中立，想要说 the attempt to be neutral, the attempt to say, “这只是一个 个人同意、自愿选择和自主的问题，” it's just a matter of consent and choice and autonomy, “我们不持 任何立场，” we take no stand. 这种想法 是行不通的。 That doesn't succeed. 即使法院 想要在道德和宗教争议中 保持中立， Even the court, which wants to be neutral on these moral and religious disputes, 也会发现 自己做不到这点。 finds that it can't. 对于我们的第二个问题 又怎样呢？ What then about our second question? 如果当我们讨论 什么是正义和权利 的时候， If reasoning about the good is unavoidable 就不可避免的要谈论 “善” in debates about justice and rights, 那么，我们是否有可能 is it possible 如果讨论“善”意味着 If reasoning about the good means 你在评价 什么是善的时候， that you must have a single principle or rule or maxim 是不是 只能有一条原则、规则、格律或者标准。 or criterion for the good life, 每次你碰到道德难题，你就可以简单的加以运用。 that you simply plug in every time you have a disagreement about morality, 那么答案是：不。 then the answer is, no. 只有一条原则 并不是唯一的方法 But having a single principle or rule is not the only way, 也不是最好的方法 not the best way of reasoning 来思考 什么是善，什么是正义。 either about the good life or about justice. 请回想一下 我们一直以来的讨论， Think back, think back to the arguments that we've been having here 关于正义，关于权利，有的时候还讨论到“善”的生活。 about justice and about rights and sometimes about the good life. 这些论点 是怎么展开的？ How have those arguments proceeded? 它们进行的方式 They've proceeded very much in the way 正如亚里斯多德 所说的那样 that Aristotle suggests moving back and forth 在我们对特定事件、故事和问题 between our judgments about particulars, 的看法中 前后比较， particular cases, events, stories, questions, 在我们对特定事件的判断 back and forth between our judgments about particular cases 以及 我们在特定事件中 所持的立场 and more general principles that make sense 其背后的那些一般原则。 of our reasons for the positions we take on the particular cases. 这种 道德推理的 辩证方式 This dialectical way of doing moral reasoning goes back 可以追溯到古人，追溯到柏拉图和亚里斯多德， to the ancients, to Plato and Aristotle, 这种辩证思想方式 并没有停滞在那个时代 but it doesn't stop with them, 因为 当John Rawls在论证他的 一套正义理论的时候， because there is a version of Socratic or dialectical moral reasoning 他有力和清晰的进行了阐述， that is defended with great clarity and force by John Rawls 用的就是 苏格拉底式的 辩证推理方式。 in giving an account of his method of justifying a theory of justice. 你们还记得，Rawls所提出的并不仅仅只是 You remember it's not only the veil of ignorance and the principles “无知的面纱” 和 其他的原则 （第9集） that Rawls argues for. Rawls的正义理论 也是一种道德推理的方式， It's also a method of moral reasoning, 他称之为 “反思的平衡”。 reasoning about justice that he calls reflective equilibrium. “反思的平衡” 是一种什么样的推理方式？ What is the method of reflective equilibrium? 它是指 在我们对特定事件的判断 It's moving back and forth between our considered judgments about particular cases 和 我们这一判断 其背后的一般原则之间， and the general principles we would articulate 来回对比的过程。 to make sense of those judgments. 我们并没有停在那里，因为我们的最开始的直觉判断 And not just stopping there, because we might be wrong 可能是错的。 in our initial intuitions. 我们并没有停在那里，而是 在某些时候 Not stopping there but then sometimes revising our particular judgments 根据我们得出的这些原则来 修正最初的判断。 in the light of the principles once we work them out. 有的时候我们修正原则， 有的时候我们修正 So sometimes we revise the principles, sometimes we revise our judgments 我们对这些 案例中的判断和直觉思维。 and intuitions in the particular cases. 用Rawls的话来说，这么做的意义在于， The general point is this, and here I quote Rawls. 正义 并不能从 不证自明的的前提 中推导出来。 A conception of justice can't be deduced from self evident premises. 要证明它，需要多种因素 的相互支持 Its justification is a matter of the mutual support of many considerations, 将所有的考虑因素 都调配成 一个连贯一致的观点。 of everything fitting together into one coherent view. 之后，在《正义论》中，他写道 And later in the theory of justice, he writes, 道德哲学 是苏格拉底式的， moral philosophy is Socratic. 我们可能需要 改变我们现有的判断， We may want to change our present considered judgments 一旦我们发现了 它对应的原则， once their regulative principles are brought to light. 如果Rawls 采纳了这种想法 Well, if Rawls accepts that idea 提出了“反思的平衡” 这个想法， and advances that notion of reflective equilibrium, 那么，我们剩下的问题就是， the question we're left with is, 他应用这种方式 来考虑正义问题， he applies that to questions of justice, 而不是道德 或“善”的生活的问题。 not to questions of morality and the good life. 这就是他为什么 And that's why he remains committed to the priority 仍然认为， 正义高于“善” 的原因。 of the right over the good. 他认为“反思的平衡” 的这种方法 He thinks the method of reflective equilibrium 能够产生对 正义的共识 can generate shared judgments about justice in the right 但是他不认为，这种思考方式会产生 but he doesn't think they can generate shared judgments 对善的生活 的共识， about the good life, about what he calls 他称之为 复杂的道德和宗教问题。 comprehensive moral and religious question. 他这么想的理由是，他认为 And the reason he thinks that is that he says that 在现代社会中，对什么是“善” 有着多种理解。 in modern societies there is a fact or reasonable pluralism about the good. 即使是 那些有道德感的人 经过相当严密的推理， Even conscientious people who reason well, 也会发现，他们对很多问题的看法 存在分歧， will find that they disagree about questions 比如说 对善的生活、道德和宗教问题 的看法 of the good life, about morality and religion. Rawls 可能是对的。 And Rawls is likely right about that. 他不只是在说，在多元社会里 人们的想法会 存在分歧这一事实， He's not talking about the fact of disagreement in pluralist societies. 他还认为，在看待什么 “善”的时候， He's also suggesting that there may be persisting 以及 在道德和宗教问题上，这些分歧会持续下去。 disagreements about the good life and about moral and religious questions. 但是如果这种说法是真的，那么 But if that's true, then 据此，他是不是 就可以证明 is he warranted in his further claim 人们对“正义”的看法上，就不会出现同样的事情呢？ that the same can't be said about justice? 事实上，在一个多元社会中，我们不仅 Isn't it also true, not only that we, as a matter of fact, disagree 在对正义的理解上 存在分歧， about justice in pluralist societies, 而这些分歧 至少有一些是合理的，是不是真的如此呢？ but that at least some of those disagreements are reasonable disagreements? 同理， In the same way, 有些人支持 自由意志主义的 正义理论， some people favor a libertarian theory of justice, 另外一些人支持 平等主义的正义理论。 others are more egalitarian theory of justice and they argue. 我们的社会中存在着多元主张，有些人喜欢市场 的自由放任主义， And there is pluralism in our society as between free market laissez faire, 有些人喜欢自由意志主义，有些人喜欢平等主义。 libertarian theories of justice and more egalitarian ones. 我们进行 道德推理的方式 Is there any difference in principle 以及我们出现的分歧，在原则上有没有什么区别？ between the kind of moral reasoning and the kind of disagreements that arise 当我们 讨论正义， when we debate about justice 讨论 言论自由的意义， and the meaning of free speech 讨论 宗教自由的本质 的时候出现的这些分歧？ and the nature of religious liberty? 看看 刚才提交到 Look at the debates we have over 最高法院的这些争论。 appointees to the Supreme Court. 人们 在正义和权利问题上 分歧重重。 These are all disagreements about justice and rights. 在正义和权利的问题上，存在着的多元意见， Is there any difference between the fact of reasonable pluralism 与 在道德和宗教的问题上 的多元意见，这两者有什么不同吗？ in the case of justice and rights and in the case of morality and religion? 原则上，我不认为它们之间会有什么不同。 In principle I don't think that there is. 在两种情况中，当我们不同意对方的意见时，我们所作的事情都是 In both cases what we do when we disagree is 我们之间 相互对话，我们整个学期 也是这样做的。 we engage with our interlocutor, as we've been doing here for an entire semester. 不同的案例引发了 不同意见，我们对之加以思考。 We consider the arguments that are provoked by particular cases. 我们试图找出 让我们这样做，而不那样做 其背后的理由。 We try to develop the reasons that lead us to go one way rather than another. 我们听取 其他人的理由。 And then we listen to the reasons of other people. 有些时候，我们被他人说服，修改了我们的意见。 And sometimes we're persuaded to revise our view. 有的时候，我们与之争辩，坚持和加强 我们原有观点。 Other times we're challenged at least to shore up and strengthen our view. 道德上的争论 也是以这种方式进行的， But this is how moral argument proceeds, 讨论正义的问题，对我来说， with justice, and so it seems to me, also 跟 讨论“善”的问题 是一样的。 with questions of the good life. 现在，我们还有一个担忧， Now, there remains a further worry 这是一个 自由主义���忧虑， and it's a liberal worry, 如果我们认为，我们在道德和宗教上的分歧 what about if we are going to think of our disagreements about morality and religion 同我们在正义问题上的分歧 是联系在一起的， as bound up with our disagreements about justice, 我们怎样才能 在一个社会中 how are we ever going to find our way to a society 对 其他意见不一的公民 给予尊重呢？ that accords respect to fellow citizens with whom we disagree? 我认为，这就要看 应该给予其什么样的尊重， It depends I think on which conception of respect one accepts. 在自由主义者的立场上，尊重其他公民的 On the liberal conception, to respect our fellow citizens' 道德和宗教信仰，可以说就是 装着没看到它们， moral and religious convictions, is, so to speak, to ignore them, 为了政治上的目的，我们这么做。 for political purposes. 这是为了把 这些道德和宗教信念 To rise above or to abstract from or to set aside 超越、抽象 或搁置一边。 those moral and religious convictions. 这是为了不去 打扰他们，是为了 不诉诸于这些道德和宗教信念， To leave them undisturbed, to carry on our political debate 我们也能进行 政治争论。 without reference to them. 但这不是唯一的方式， But that isn't the only way, 甚至不是最合理的方式 or perhaps even the most plausible way 来达到 民主生活所依赖的 of understanding the mutual respect 那种 相互尊重。 on which democratic life depends. 要做到尊重 其他公民的道德和宗教信仰， There is a different conception of respect according to which we respect 还有另外一种方法， our fellow citizens' moral and religious convictions, 不是漠视他们，而是与之交流。 not by ignoring, but by engaging them. 对他们 予以关注。 By attending to them. 有的时候 还需要与之争论。 Sometimes by challenging and contesting them. 有的时候 则需要聆听和学习。 Sometimes by listening and learning from them. 这么做 并不保证 Now, there's no guarantee that 在任何情况下，道德上、宗教上的相互接触 a politics of moral and religious attention and engagement 最后都会 达成一致的看法， will lead in any given case to agreement. 也不保证这样做之后，我们最后都能 There is no guarantee it will lead even to appreciation 欣赏 其他人的道德和宗教信仰。 for the moral and religious convictions of others. 毕竟，总是有可能发生 It's always possible, after all, 对一种宗教和道德观点 了解越多， that learning more about a religious or a moral doctrine 我们就 越不喜欢它。 will lead us to like it less. 但是 （比起相互漠视来说） 这种商议、交流带来的尊重 But the respect of deliberation and engagement 在我看来，对一个多元社会来说，更为合适。 seems to me a more adequate, more suitable ideal for a pluralist society. 我们在道德和宗教意见上 发生的分歧，在一种程度上反映了 And to the extent that our moral and religious disagreements reflect 人类品质上 存在着一些根本的多元差异。 some ultimate plurality of human goods. 在我看来，道德上相互交流 会让我们 A politics of moral engagement will better enable us, so it seems to me, 去欣赏 不同人生 所展现出来的 不同的品质。 to appreciate the distinctive goods our different lives expressed. 13个星期之前，当我们第一次见面的时候， When we first came together some 13 weeks ago, 我谈到了 学习政治哲学的 快乐之处， I spoke of the exhilaration of political philosophy 以及它的风险。 and also of its dangers. 我谈到，哲学是怎样的 About how philosophy works and has always worked 通过颠覆了我们的即成观念，使得过去熟悉的事物 变得陌生， by estranging us from the familiar by unsettling our settled assumptions. 我试着提醒你们，一旦熟悉的变得陌生， And I tried to warn you that once the familiar turns strange, 一旦我们开始 反思我们的环境， once we begin to reflect on our circumstance, 世界将不再一样。 it's never quite the same again. 我希望你们，至少已经体会到了 一点点的不安 I hope you have by now experienced at least a little of this unease 这种不安，会促发我们的批判性思考，以及 政治上的完善 because this is the tension that animates critical reflection and political improvement 乃至 我们的道德生活。 and maybe even the moral life as well. 在某种意义上说，我们的讨论 已经告一段落， And so our argument comes to an end, in a sense, 但在另外一个意义上说，它还会继续进行下去。 but in another sense goes on. 从��开始，我们就问为什么 Why, we asked at the outset, 为什么我们要继续进行这些争论，即使它们引发的问题 why did these arguments keep going even if they raise questions 最终都不太可能 得到解决？ that are impossible ever, finally, to resolve? 理由是，我们一直都生活 在这些问题的回答中。 The reason is that we live some answer to these questions all the time. 在我们的公共生活中，在我们的私人生活中， In our public life, and in our personal lives, 即使有时候这些问题无法回答，但我们还是无法 回避哲学。 philosophy is inescapable even if it sometimes seems impossible. 我们开始的时候，谈到了康德的一个观点， We began with the thought of Kant, 即 怀疑是人类理性的 休憩之处。 that skepticism is a resting place for human reason. 怀疑 让理性能反省 其教条式的漫游旅程， Where it can reflect upon its dogmatic wanderings, 但 怀疑也并非是 永久的安身之处。 but it is no dwelling place for permanent settlement. 康德写道，仅仅停留在 怀疑或自满， To allow ourselves simply to acquiescence in skepticism or in complacence, Kant wrote, 绝不足以 克服理性之不安。 can never suffice to overcome the restlessness of reason. 这门课程的目的 The aim of this course has been to awaken 就是要 唤醒你们永不停歇的 理性思考 the restlessness of reason 看看它将 把你们带向何方。 and to see where it might lead. 如果我们 至少做到了这点， And if we had done at least that, 如果 理性的不安 继续在折磨你， and if the restlessness continues to afflict you 现在 或 将来， in the days and years to come, 那么我们 就不是一无所获的。 then we together have achieved no small thing. 谢谢你们。 Thank you.
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What's the Right Thing to Do - Lecture 11 Obligations and Loyalties
社群的观点 The Claims of Community 今天 我们开始讨论 康德对于亚里士多德的回应 Today we turn to Kant’s reply to Aristotle. 康德认为，亚里士多德 错了 Kant thinks that Aristotle just made a mistake. 康德认为，支持 在权利公平的框架下，让人们追求自己的美好生活，是一回事 。 It’s one thing, Kant says, to support a fair framework of rights within which people can pursue their own conceptions of the good life.
而将法律或者正义的原则，强制地建立在 某种特定的美好生活方式之上，则是另外一回事 It’s something else and something that runs the risk of coercion to base law or principles of justice on any particular conception of the good life. 你们还记得亚里士多德说过，为了探寻理想的宪法 You remember Aristotle says in order to investigate the ideal constitution, 我们必须首先 搞清楚，什么是最好的生活方式 we have first to figure out the best way to live. 康德反对这一看法 Kant would reject that idea. 他认为宪法和法律 He says that constitutions and laws and rights 不应当是 体现、支持或者推崇 should not embody or affirm or promote 任何一种特定的生活方式 any particular way of life. 那与 自由不一致 That’s at odds with freedom. 对亚里士多德来说，法律的全部意义 For Aristotle the whole point of law, （建立）城邦的目的 the purpose of polis 就在于塑造公民的性格 is to shape character, 在于培养公民的美德 to cultivate the virtue of citizens, 在于 培养公民的卓越品性，让其可以过上美好生活。 to inculcate civic excellence, to make possible a good way of life. 那就是他在《政治学》一书中告诉我们的 That’s what he tells us in the politics. 另一方面 对于康德来说 For Kant, on the other hand, 法律的目的、宪法的意义 the purpose of law, the point of a constitutiion 并不是 引导或者推崇美德 is not to inculcate or to promote virtue. 而是建立一种 公平的权利框架 It’s to set up a fair framework of rights 在此框架下，公民可以自由地追求 他们自己所认为的美好生活 within which citizens may be free to pursue their own conceptions of the good for themselves. 我们看到了他们的 正义理论的不同之处 So we see the difference in their theories of justice. 其差别在于 他们对于法律的认识、宪法的作用、政治的意义。 We see the difference in their account of law or the role of a constitution, the point of politics, 这些差异的背后是， 他们对 作为一个自由的人 究竟意味着什么，这一问题的不同认识 and underlying these differences are two different accounts of what it means to be a free person. 对于亚里士多德来说， 我们是自由的 For Aristotle we are free 只要我们有能力 实现我们潜能。 insofar as we have the capacity to realize our potential. 而这就将我们引到了 关于适合的问题上来 And that leads us to the question of fit. 人与他扮演的角色 之间的适合度 Fit between persons and the roles that are appropriate to them. 量体裁衣 Figuring out what I’m cut out for. 所谓 过自由的生活，就在于使我的潜能 得以实现 That’s what it means to lead a free life, to live up to my potential. 康德反对这种看法 Kant rejects that idea and 取而代之的是，他有名的关于自由 的严格定义 instead substitutes his famously demanding notion of freedom 即 自由是自主行动的能力 as the capacity to act autonomously. 自由意味着 按照我给自己定下的律令行动 Freedom means acting according to a law I give myself. 自由即自律 Freedom is autonomy. 在康德和Rawls眼里，道德的力量 一部分在于 Part of the appeal, part of the moral force of the view of Kant and of Rawls consists in 人是 自由和独立的自我， the conception of the person as a free and independent self 能够选择他或她自己的目标 capable of choosing his or her own ends. 这种自我的形象 是自由独立的 The image of the self is free and independent 这给我们提供了 一个强有力的、不受任何束缚的视角 offers a, if you think about it, a powerful liberating vision 因为它认为， 作为自由的道德主体 because what it says is that as free moral persons 我们不被任何 并非我们选择的 we are not bound by any ties of history 历史、传统�� 或承袭下来的境况 所束缚 or of tradition or of inherited status that we haven’t chosen for ourselves, 因此我们在选择之前，不受任何道德纽带 的束缚 and so we’re unbound by any moral ties prior to our choosing them. 而这意味着 And that means that 我们是 自由独立的、自主的主体 we are free and independent sovereign selves. 那些约束我们的责任，是由我们自己制订的 We’re the authors of the only obligations that constrain us. 那些批评康德和Rawls式的自由主义的、提倡社群主义的人们 The communitarian critics of Kantian and Rawlsian liberalism 认可这种自由观 的确很有说服力和鼓舞人心 acknowledge that there is something powerful and inspiring in that account of freedom, 人们可以 自由独立地进行选择 the free independent choosing self, 但是他们认为， 这一理论 漏掉了一些东西 but they argue it misses something. 它遗漏了整个道德生活，甚至还有政治生活 It misses a whole dimension of moral life and even political life. 它没法解释 我们的道德经验 It can’t make sense of our moral experience 因为它不能说明，我们普遍认可，甚至是推崇的 某些道德和政治义务 because it can’t account for certain moral and political obligations that we commonly recognize and even prize. 这包括 成员资格的义务、忠诚、团结， And these include obligations of membership, loyalty, solidarity, 以及其它 不必经过我们同意 道德要求 and other moral ties that may claim us for reasons that we can’t trace to an act of consent. Alasdair MacIntyre 提出了一种 他称之为 叙事式自我的观点 Alasdair MacIntyre gives an account what he calls a narrative conception of the self. 这是一种 不同的自我概念 It’s a different account of the self. MacIntyre认为，人类本质上是一种 讲故事的生物 Human beings are essentially storytelling creatures, MacIntyre argues. 这就意味着，要回答“我该做什么” 这个问题 That means I can only answer the question 'what am I to do?' 必须先回答一个问题，“我的哪个故事里的一部分” if I can answer the prior question of what story or stories do I find myself a part? 这就是他所说的“叙事式自我” 的意思 That’s what he means by the narrative conception of the self. 这和 社群以及归属 有什么关系呢？ What does this have to do with the idea of community and belonging? MacIntyre说到 MacIntyre says this, 一旦你接受了 道德反思中 叙事性的一面 Once you accept this narrative aspect of moral reflection 你就会注意到，我们绝不会仅仅作为个人 you will notice that we can never seek for the good 来追求美好 或做道德的事。 or exercise of the virtues only as individuals. 我们是带着 我们身处的情景 所赋予我们的社会身份标识。 We all approach our circumstance as bearers of particular social identities. 我是某个人的儿子或女儿 I am someone’s son or daughter, 是这个 或者那个城市的居民 a citizen of this or that city, 我属于这个宗族，那个部族，这个民族 I belonged to this clan, that tribe, this nation. 因此，MacIntyre尔认为， 那些对我而言 是好的事物 Hence, MacIntyre argues, what is good for me 是针对 这个角色背景下 是好的。 has to be the good for someone who inhabits these roles. 我 从我的家族、城市、部族、民族的过去， 继承下来 I inherit from the past of my family, my city, my tribe, my nation 各种各样的债务、遗产、期望和责任 a variety of debts, inheritances, expectations, and obligations. 这些构成了我生活的前提，我的道德初始点 These constitute the given of my life, my moral starting point. 这在某种程度上，赋予 我的生活 以道德独特性 This is in part what gives my life its moral particularity. 这就是叙事式的自我观 That’s the narrative conception of the self. 这一观点 将自我视为 And it’s a conception that sees the self as 至少在某种程度上 受制于 claimed or encumbered, at least to some extent, 我们身处的历史、传统、社群 by the history, the tradition, the communities, of which it’s a part. 如果不管 这些情景所赋予我们的特征，我们就不知道 我们生活的意义， 不论是从心理上的，还是从道德上的。 We can’t make sense of our lives, not only as a psychological matter, but also as a moral matter in thinking what we are to do without attending to these features about us. MacIntyre认识到，这种叙事式的看法， Now, MacIntyre recognizes that this narrative account, 这种 受限制的自我 this picture of the encumbered self, 使得他的理论，与现今的 自由主义和个人主义 不协调 puts his account at odds with contemporary liberalism and individualism. 从个人主义的观点来看 From the standpoint of individualism 我是 我自己选择成为的 那个人 I am what I myself choose to be. 在生理上，我可能是我父亲的儿子 I may biologically be my father’s son 但是我不一定要 为他所做的事情负责 but I can’t be held responsible for what he did 除非我选择承担 那样的责任 unless I choose to assume such responsibility. 我也不一定要 为我的国家做的 或者做过的事情负责 I can’t be held responsible for what my country does, or has done, 除非我选择承担 那样的责任 unless I choose to assume such responsibility. 但是MacIntyre认为，这反映出 某种道德上的肤浅 But MacIntyre says this reflects a certain kind of moral shallowness 甚至是盲目 even blindness. 这是一种 与高度的责任感不相符 的盲目 It’s a blindness at odds with the full measure of responsibility which sometimes, 他说，这种责任感涉及到 集体责任， he says, involves collective responsibility or 或者从过去的历史中 流传下来的责任 responsibilities that may flow from historic memories. 他还给出了一些例子 And he gives some examples. 那样的个人主义被 某些当代的美国人表现了出来 Such individualism is expressed by those contemporary Americans 这种人 拒绝承担 奴隶制给黑人带来的影响， who deny any responsibility for the effects of slavery upon black Americans saying 他们说 "我又没有拥有过奴隶" "I never owned any slaves." 又比如，一些1945年以后出生的 年轻的德国人 认为 Or the young German who believes that having been born after 1945 means 纳粹对犹太人的恶行， 同他们和当代犹太人之间，没有任何道德上的关联 that what Nazis did to Jews has no moral relevance to his relationship to his Jewish contemporaries. MacIntyre认为，这种对历史健忘的态度 MacIntyre says all of these attitudes of historical amnesia 相当于是 一种道德缺席 amount to a kind of moral abdication. 一旦你认识到 我们是谁 Once you see that who we are 从中了解到 我们的义务 and what it means to sort out our obligations 这些义务 不能,也不应当从 赋予了我们意义 的生活历史中 分离出来。 can’t be separated, shouldn’t be separated from the life histories that define us. 他说，叙事式的观点 与（个人主义）的对比 是明显的 The contrast, he says, with a narrative account, is clear, 我的生活故事 总是镶嵌在 我所在的社群的故事里， For the story of my life is always embedded in the story of those communities 这个社群 赋予了我的身份标识 from which I derived my identity. 我 带着过去的历史 而生的。试图 斩断与过去的联系 I am born with the past and to try to cut myself off from that past 就会使 我现在关系 变形。 is to deform my present relationships. 这就是 MacIntyre 的 一种有力的观点： So there you have in MacIntyre, a strong statement of the idea 认为 自我是 不能也不应当 that the self can’t be detached, shouldn’t be detached, 从 它与社群关系、历史、叙事的特定纽带中， 分离开来 from its particular ties of membership, history, story narrative. 现在，我听听你们怎么看 社群主义者们 Now, I want to get your reactions to the communitarian critique 对 个人主义、唯意志主义者、无拘无束的自我观 的批评。 of the individualist or the voluntarist, the unencumbered self. 不过，为了让你们 不只是对这些理论的回应， But let’s make it concrete so that you can react to more than just the theory of it 我们先看看 道德和政治义务的 两种不同的产生方式， by looking at the two different accounts of moral and political obligation that arise 而这两种看法 取决于 你接受哪种 depending on which of these conceptions of the person one accepts. 在自由主义者来看 On the liberal conception, 道德和政治义务可以 经由两种方式产生 moral and political obligations arise in one of two ways. 有一些自然义务，是作为人类本身 所负有的。 There are natural duties that we owe human beings as such. 将人视为人 加以尊重的义务 duties of respect for persons qua persons. 这种义务是普遍的 These obligations are universal. 此外，正如Rawls指出的 Then, as Rawls points out, 还有一些是自愿的义务 there are also voluntary obligations. 这些义务 是针对特定的人，经由我们同意 所承担的义务， Obligations that we owe to particular others insofar as we have agreed 不论是通过承诺、交易或者合同 whether through a promise or a deal or a contract. 现在就涉及到，自由主义者和社群主义者，这两者的自我观。 Now, the issue between the liberal and communitarian accounts of the self, 是否还有另外一种义务？ Is there another category of obligation or not? 社群主义者认为 有。 The communitarian says there is. 存在第三种义务，它可以被称为 There is a third category that might be called 团结、忠诚 或者成员资格的义务 obligations of solidarity or loyalty or membership. 社群主义者认为，自由主义者对于义务的全部论述 The communitarian argues that construing all obligations 不论是自然义务，还是自愿义务 as either natural duties or voluntary obligations 都不能涵盖 维持成员资格、团结的义务 fails to capture obligations of membership or solidarity. 对于忠诚，其道德力量 部分在于 Loyalties whose moral force consists partly in the fact 忠诚 是理解我们是谁（我们归属哪个群体） 所不可或缺的。 that living by them is inseparable from understanding ourselves as the particular persons we are. 有什么例子呢？ What would be some examples? 然后我想听听，你们对此有何看法。 And then I want to see how you would react to them. 关于 由成员资格产生义务 的例子 Examples of obligations of membership 这种义务不一定经过 同意而产生 that are particular but don’t necessarily flow from consent 而是由于 你是社群的成员 而产生的 but rather from membership, narrative, community, one situation. 最常见的例子 就是和家庭有关的义务 The most common examples are ones to do with the family. 比如 父母和孩子之间的关系 The relation between parents and children, for example. 假设，有两个孩子掉到水里了 Suppose there were two children drowning. 而你只能救其中一个 You could save only one of them. 这两个孩子中，一个是你的，另一个是陌生人的 One was your child, the other was a stranger’s child. 你难道有义务，要通过抛硬币来 决定救谁？ Would you have an obligation to flip a coin 还是说，如果你没有冲上去救自己的孩子， 那就是道德上的麻木迟钝呢？ or would there be something morally obtuse if you didn’t rush to save your child? 现在，你可能会说 Now, you may say, well, 是父母 自己同意有孩子的 parents have agreed to have their children. 再看看另外一种情况，看看子女对父母的义务 So take the other case, the case of children’s obligation for their parents. 我们没有 选择谁来做自己的父母 Now, we don’t choose our parents. 我们甚至不能选择 是否有父母 We don’t even choose to have parents. 这里存在 不对等的问题 There is that asymmetry. 如果有 两位年迈的父母，一个是你的， And yet consider two aging parents, one of them yours, 一个是陌生人的 the other a stranger’s. 如果你觉得，你更有义务照顾自己的父母，而非 那位陌生人的父母 这在道德上是不是 更说得过去？ Doesn’t it make moral sense to think that you have a greater obligation to look after your aged parent than to flip a coin or to help the stranger’s? 这涉及到 同意了吗？ 明显没有。 Now, is this traceable to consent? Not likely 或者举几个政治上的例子 Or take a couple of political examples. 在二战期间， 法国抵抗力量的飞行员 During World War II, French resistance pilots 奉命轰炸被占领的法国领土 flew bombing raids over occupied France. 一天，一个飞行员接到 自己的轰炸目标 One day, one of the pilots received his target 他发现要轰炸的村庄 and noticed that the village he was being asked to bomb 正是他以前的家乡 was his home village. 他拒绝了这一任务，其理由不是因为 这个轰炸目标 不像昨天的目标那么有必要。 He refused, not disputing that it was as necessary as the target he bombed yesterday. 而是因为 他下不了决心 He refused on the ground that he couldn’t bring himself. 对他来说，向自己人丢下炸弹 是一种道德罪行 It would be a special moral crime for him to bomb his people 尽管这样做是 为了解放法国---他所支持的这项运动。 even in a cause that he supported, the cause of liberating France. 那么，我们敬佩他吗？ Now, do we admire that? 如果我们赞同他的做法，社群主义者们会说， If we do, the communitarian argues, 那是因为我们的确承认 维持团结的义务。 it’s because we do recognize obligations of solidarity. 再举一个例子 Take another example. 很多年前，在埃塞俄比亚 爆发了饥荒 Some years ago there was a famine in Ethiopia. 成千上万的人 面临饥饿的威胁 Hundreds of thousands of people were starving. 以色列政府 组织空运物资，救助埃塞俄比亚籍 的那些犹太人 The Israeli government organized an airlift to rescue Ethiopian Jews. 他们没有能力 去救埃塞俄比亚的 所有人 They didn’t have the capacity to rescue everyone in Ethiopia. 他们就只救助了几百个 埃籍犹太人 They rescued several hundred Ethiopian Jews. 你们对此在道德上作何评价？ Now, what’s your moral assessment? 那是不是一种 道德上的偏心，或者说是 一种偏见？ Is that a kind of morally troubling partiality, a kind of prejudice? 或者像 以色列政府所认为的，这次空运应当承担 维护团结的特别义务？ Or as the Israeli government thought, is there a special obligation of solidarity that this airlift properly responded to? 这样，我们就进入了一个更为宽泛的问题---爱国主义 Well, that takes us to the broader question of patriotism. 从道德上讲， 什么能被称为爱国主义？ What, morally speaking, is to be said for patriotism? 有两个叫做 富兰克林的小镇 There are two towns named Franklin. 一个是德克萨斯州的富兰克林镇， One is Franklin, Texas, 另一个是在 格兰德河畔的富兰克林镇，隶属 墨西哥。 and the other is just across the Rio Grande River, Franklin, Mexico. 国家边界 在道���上有什么意义？ What is the moral significance of national boundaries? 为什么 Why is it, or is it the case 作为美国人，我们是不是有 更大的责任 that we as Americans have a greater responsibility 为德州的富兰克林镇， 提供医疗、教育、社会福利和公共保障， for the health and the education and the welfare and public provision for people who live in Franklin, Texas, 而不是 墨西哥河畔的小镇里， 面临同样匮乏的那些居民？ than equally needy people just across the river, living in Franklin, Mexico? 按照社群主义者的解释， 成员资格 的确重要。 According to the communitarian account, membership does matter. 爱国主义 至少是一种潜在的美德， And the reason patriotism is at least potentially a virtue is that 原因是：它是公民义务的一种表现 it is an expression of the obligations of citizenship. 你们有多少人同意 存在 这第三种义务？ How many are sympathetic to the idea that there is this third category of obligation? 即 维护团结 或者 作为社群成员的义务 The obligations of solidarity or membership. 多少人赞同？ How many are sympathetic to that idea? 又有多少人对此 持持批评态度？ And how many are critical of that idea? 有多少人认为，所有的义务 How many think all obligations can be accounted for 都可以用 前两类义务 来解释？ in the first two ways? 好吧，我们先听听 对社群主义者的批评意见 All right, let’s hear from the critics of the communitarian idea first. 是的 Yes. 如果因为你是某个社群的成员，或者因为 要维持团结， 你就要 担负义务， My biggest concern with the idea of having obligations because you’re a member of something or because of solidarity 对于这个观点，我最大的疑问是：如果你接受了这种义务， 来作为一种道德约束 is that it seems that if you accept those obligations as being sort of morally binding, 那么，这些义务之间 就很有可能会 重叠 then there is a greater occurrence of overlapping obligations, 很可能会出现 要在两种善行之间 选择。 a greater occurrence of good versus good. 而我不知道，社群主义的这一理论框架 And I don’t know if this sort of framework 能否允许 我们在其中 做出选择 allows us to choose between them. 很好，你叫什么名字？ Patrick Good, and what's your name? - Patrick. 所以你担心，如果我们 承认了 社群成员的义务， 或者维护团结的义务， So you worry that if we recognize obligations of membership or solidarity, 而我们又身处不同的社群，那它们的要求可能会发生冲突， since we inhabit different communities, their claims might conflict, 如果有 多种义务同时出现，而只能选择其中一个， 我们如何抉择呢？ and what would we do if we have competing obligations? 好的 Yes. 好的，一种解决方法是 我们可以这么看 Well, one solution is that we could view ourselves as 说到底，我们都是人类社会的成员 ultimately, members of the human community 在此前提下，我们会有 范围更窄一些的身份 and that then within that we have all these smaller spheres, of that, 比如我是美国人，或者 我是哈佛大学的学生 you know, I am American or I am a student at Harvard. 所以，我们应当服从的、最重要的群体 就是 人类社会。 and so the most important community to be obligated to is the community of human beings. 这样，你就可以评估 And then from there you can sort of, evaluate, 看看什么对你 是最重要的 which other ones are most important to you. 你叫什么名字？ Nichola So the most, and what’s your name? - Nichola. Nichola，你说 我们身处的最大的社群---人类社会 So, Nichola, you say the most universal community we inhabit, the community of human kind, 总是应当 优先考虑？ always takes precedence? 是的 - Yes. Patrick，你对这个答案满意吗？ Patrick, are you satisfied? 不满意，为什么？ No. - Why not? 选择 普遍的义务，而不是某个具体的义务，这似乎太武断了。 It seems rather arbitrary that we should choose the universal obligation over the more specific obligation. 我也可以说，我应当首先 承担我自己最具体的义务。 I might also say that I should be obligated first to the most specific of my obligations. 例如，将我的家庭 看作是 维持团结的一个小单位 For instance, take my family as a small unit of solidarity. 也许我应当 首先承担家庭这个单位的义务， Perhaps I should be first obligated to that unit 接着可能才是 我居住的小镇， and then perhaps to the unit of my town, 然后是我的国家，再然后是人类 and then my country, and then the human race. 很好，谢谢。 Good, thank you. 我想听听 对于社群主义者观点的 其他反对意见 I want to hear from another critic of the communitarian view. 已经有人反对说，要是善和善之间发生冲突了怎么办？ We have the objection, well, what if goods collide? 谁反对这个观点？ Who objects to the whole idea of it? 谁认为爱国主义只是一种偏见， Who sees patriotism as just the kind of prejudice 是我们应当克服的偏见？ that ideally we should overcome? 好的 Yes. 爱国主义 反映了一种社群的成员资格 Patriotism reflects a community membership. 那是一种 被给予的东西 That’s a, like, a given. 我认为问题在于，有些成员身份是自然叙事， I think the problem is that where some memberships are natural narratives, 而公民身份的叙事 则是建构起来的。 the narrative of citizenship is a constructed one. 这是不对头的。 就像 那条分界河 其实只是一种历史巧合， And I think a false one because, as the river is just a historical accident, 仅仅因为我随机降生在美国，而不是墨西哥 it makes no sense that because the lottery of birth threw me into the United States as opposed to Mexico that 就决定了我是美国的一员。这么讲不通。 that’s the membership that I should be a part of. 很好，你叫什么名字？ Elizabeth Good. And what’s your name? - Elizabeth. 谁能回答她的问题？ Elizabeth. Who has a reply? 好的 Yes. 我认为总体上说，我们得问 我们的道德义务是从哪里产生的。 I think in general, we have to ask where do our moral obligations arise from anyway. 而我认为，基本上是从两个地方产生的 And I think, basically, there’d be two places from which they could arise. 一种是亲属关系，另一种是互惠。 One would be kin and the other one would be reciprocity. 如果你和其他人联系越紧密 ， And isn’t the closer you are associated to other people, 这里就会 产生自然的互惠关系。 there’s a natural reciprocity there in terms of having interactions with those people. 你和街坊邻居相互交往 You interact with the neighbors on your street, 在经济上，与这个村里的其他人 来往 with the other people in your country through economic arrangements. 你和我都不认识，那些住在墨西哥富兰克林镇的人， But I don’t know and you don’t know those people in Franklin, Texas, 同样也不认识 那些住在德州富兰克林镇的人 any more than you know the people in Franklin, Mexico, do you? 相比其他村里的人，想必 你和自己村里的人，在来往和贸易上， 自然地有更多的联系。 Presumably you’re naturally more connected with the people in your own country in terms of interaction and trade than you are with people in other countries. 很好，还有谁？ 好的 Good. Who else? Go ahead. 我觉得 爱国主义 Yeah, I think that a lot of the basis for patriotism 就像我们在大学里看到的 学院精神，或者是宿舍精神， can be compared to like school spirit or even house spirit that we see here 在这里，新生被分到某一个宿舍， where freshmen are sorted into houses and then 仅仅一天的时间，他们就会对自己的宿舍，产生某种依恋， 或者自豪感 within a day they have developed some sort of attachment or a pride associated with that house. 所以我认为，我们也许可以 区分出 ： And so I think that we can probably draw a distinction between 由于社群的观念而生的道德义务 a moral obligation for communitarian beliefs vs 仅仅是情绪化的、或情感上的依恋 and sort of just a sentimental, emotional attachment. 很好，等一下、 你叫什么名字？ Good. Wait, stay there. What’s your name? Rina Rina. 回到我刚才的那个例子，关于孩子对父母的义务， What about... Go back to my example about the obligation of the child to the parent. 你对此有何看法？ Would you say the same thing there? 那种义务是否就是情感上的，而非道德上的？ It just may or may not be a sentimental type and it has no moral weight? 我也不是十分确定。在开始阶段的一些东西会 Well, I mean, I’m not entirely certain that accident, in the initial stages, 排除 以后建立道德义务 的可能性 something that will preclude moral obligations later. 仅仅是因为我们随机地被分到某个宿舍 Just because we are randomly sorted into a house or 或者说 仅仅因为我们没有选择自己的父母，以及出生的祖国， just because we don’t choose who our parents are or what country we're born into 并不必然意味着，我们不会发展出 基于某种利益上的义务。 doesn’t necessarily mean that we won’t develop an obligation based on some type of benefit, I guess, to sort of... 所以，你对自己年迈的父母，比这世界上其他人的父母， 尽更大义务， So your obligation to your aged parent that’s greater than to aged parents around the world, 仅仅是因为你要报答 他们在抚养你的过程中 带给你的好处？ is only because and insofar as you’re repaying a benefit that your parent gave you when you were growing up? 是的，我是说，如果你看看 收养的例子 Yeah, I mean, I would say that if you look at cases of adoption where, 你的亲生父母在别的地方，你们没有来往， you have a biological parent somewhere else that you don’t interact with, 而后来 你的养父母 收养了你。 and then you have a parent who adopted you, 如果你必须 在他们两者中选择，大多数人会说， most people would say that if you had to pick between them in the case of aging parents, 你对 抚养你、和你有着重要交流的养父母 的义务，更多一些。 that your obligation would lie more with the person who raised you and who had exchanges with you meaningfully. 我能再问一个 关于父母的问题吗？ May I ask you one more question about the parent? 当然可以 Sure. 你是否认为，如果一个人的父母不怎么好，他承担的义务就少一些？ Do you think that a person with a bad parent owes them less? 我不知道，因为我没有过 不好的父母 I don’t know because I’ve never had a bad parent. 我们就到此为止。 谢谢 I think that’s a good place to end. - Thank you. 我们下次继续。谢谢 We’ll continue with this next time. Thank you.
今天我就会讲到 Today I’d like to take, I’d like to consider 对于维持团结或社群成员的义务 的最有力的反对观点 the strongest objections to the idea that there are obligations of solidarity or membership. 然后我想看看 这些反对能否成立 Then I want to see if those objections can be met successfully. 其中一个反对意见 是我们上次讨论中提到的 One objection emerged in the discussion last time. Patrick 说 Patrick said, 如果义务源于 社群成员资格和身份 if obligations flow from community membership and identity, 而我们又身处 多个社群 we inhabit multiple communities, 那岂不是意味着 我们的义务有时候会 相互冲突？ doesn’t that mean that our obligations will sometimes conflict? 那是一种可能的反对意见 So that’s one possible objection. 接着Rina提到了一些 引出团结和成员身份的道德力量 的例子， And then Rina said these examples meant to bring out the moral force of solidarity and membership, 关于父母和子女， examples about parents and children, 关于 法国飞行员 拒绝轰炸自己家乡的任务 about the French resistant fighter asked to bomb his own village and withdrawing back. 关于以色列政府 向埃塞俄比亚籍 犹太人空运物资的例子 About the airlift by Israel of the Ethiopian Jews. Rina说，这些例子 也许能在直觉上引起共鸣， These examples, they maybe intuitively evocative, Rina said. 但是实际上 他们表明的是情感，某种情绪化的东西 But really they’re pointing to matters of emotion, matters of sentiment. 而并不是 真正的道德义务 Not true moral obligations. 这些反对意见 And then there were a number of objections, 并不一定都是 针对爱国主义本身 not necessarily to patriotism as such. 这些反对意见针对的是，把爱国主义理解为 是一种无需经过我们同意的、 维持团结和社群成员的义务 But to patriotism understood as an obligation of solidarity and membership beyond consent. 这一反对意见同意 我们应当 对于我们所处的社群 负有爱国精神的义务 This objection allowed that there can be obligations to the communities we inhabit including obligations to patriotism. 但是这种意见认为，所有的爱国义务 But this objection argued that all of the obligations of patriotism, 或者社群的、成员身份的义务 or of community or membership, 实际上都是 建立在自由的观念基础上，并且能完美地 和自由相容。 are actually based on liberal ideas and perfectly compatible with them. 征得同意，不论是默认地，还是明示地，或互惠的 Consent, either implicit or explicit or reciprocity. 例如Julia Ratthel 在网上说 Julia Ratthel for example on the web site said that 自由主义可以赞同 把爱国作为一种自愿的道德义务 liberalism can endorse patriotism as a voluntary moral obligation. 爱国、爱家都属于自愿的一类 Patriotism and familial love both fall into this category Julia指出，因为毕竟 because after all, Julia points out, 康德的理论框架 允许人们自主地选择 the Kantian framework allows people free reign to choose to 表现出 以上提到的美德，如果他们愿意的话。 express virtues such as these if they want to. 所以你就不需要那种 非自愿的特定道德义务概念， So you don’t need the idea of a non-voluntary particular moral obligation 来体现 社群价值的道德力量。 to capture the moral force of community values. Julia在哪儿？ Where is Julia? 好的。我概括得清楚吗？ Okay, so did I summarize that fairly? Julia 实际上和Rawls 对这个问题的看法 是一致的。 Julia actually is in line with what Rawls says about this very topic. 你没意识到吗？ You weren't aware of that? 你是自己想到的。那非常好 You came up it within your own. That's pretty good. Rawls在讨论 政治义务时 Rawls says, when he’s discussing political obligation, 他说，一个人参加竞选，或参军 he says it’s one thing if someone runs for office or enlists in the military, 他们都是自愿做出的选择 they are making a voluntary choice. 但我相信，Rawls会认为，严格地说来 But Rawls says there is, I believe, no political obligations, strictly speaking, 公民没有 任何政治义务。 for a citizens generally. 因为我们不清楚，需要有什么东西来约束人们的行为 Because it’s not clear what is the requisite binding action 以及 谁在执行这种约束 and who has performed it. 所以Rawls承认，对于普通公民来说 So Rawls acknowledges that for ordinary citizens 并没有政治义务， there is no political obligation except in so far as 除非某个公民 自愿的、经过其同意的， some particular citizen willingly, through an act of consent, 承担或选择 那样一种义务 undertakes or chooses such an obligation. 这和Julia的观点一致 That’s in line with Julia’s point. 这与另外一种反对意见有关： It’s related to another objection that people have raised which is 基于以下前提 也是非常有可能承认 it’s perfectly possible to recognize particular obligations to ones family or to ones country, 对家庭和国家的义务的 就是加入推崇那些义务 并不要求你 去违背 任何出于人之为人的普遍要求 自然义务或需要 provided honoring those obligations doesn’t require you to violate any of the natural duties or requirements of the universal respect for persons-qua-persons. 这个观点跟以下观点一致： 只要我们愿意，我们可以选择去 So that’s consistent with the idea that we can choose if we want to, 表达我们对于国家、人民和家庭 的忠诚 to express our loyalty to our country or to our people or to our family 只要我们 在承认普遍义务具有优先性 这个准则内 provided we don’t do any injustice 不做任何 不义之事就行了。 within the framework acknowledging the priority that is of the universal duties. 还有一种反对意见 我没有提到。 The one objection that I didn’t mention is 有人认为，作为社群成员的义务，实际上 是一种集体的自私。 the view of those who say that obligations of membership really are kind of collective selfishness, 我们怎么还要 以此为荣呢？ why should we honor them? 这难道不是 一种偏见吗？ Isn’t it just the kind of prejudice? 现在我想做到是。 So what I’d like to do, 那些 持反对观点的人 perhaps of those of you who have agreed, who wrote and who have agreed to press these objections, 也许可以集中到一起 perhaps if you could gather down all together, 我们像以往一样 组成一个小组。 we’ll form a team as we did once before. 我们来看看你们是否能够回应，那些为爱国主义辩护、把爱国主义 看做是一种公共义务的人。 And we’ll see if you can respond to those who want to defend patriotism conceived as a communal obligation. 现在已经有一些人 Now there were a number of people 站在社群主义者一边，为爱国主义辩护了。 who argued in defense of patriotism as the communitarian view conceives it. 让我现在走下去，加入到这些批评者中间去 So let me go down now and join the critics, 加入到社群主义的批评者当中去 the critics of communitarianism. 有没有话筒 可以用一下 If there’s a microphone that we could use somewhere. 好的，谢谢Kate Okay, thanks Kate. 爱国主义的批评者们 都集中到这儿来。 Who as the critics of patriotism, communal patriotism gather their forces here? Patrick 和Rina，如果你们愿意可以加入。 Patrick if you want to you can join as well or Rina. 其他发过言的 Others who have spoken or addressed this question 都可以加入 are free to join in. 但是现在我想听听，为爱国主义辩护的声音 But I would like to hear now, from those you who defend patriotism 认为 不能把爱国主义理解为 一种单纯的基于同意的行为， and defend it as a moral obligation that can’t be translated back into purely consent based terms. 也不能理解为 基于自由选择的行为。 Can’t be translated into the liberal terms. AJ Kumar在哪儿？ Where is AJ Kumar? AJ，好像大家都认识你 AJ, everybody seems to know you. 好的，我们来听听库 AJ的观点 All right, let’s hear from AJ. 你说，和一般而言的社群相比，我觉得对我的家庭责任更大， You said, in the same way I feel I owe more to my family than to the general community, 同样的道理，和一般人相比， 我对我的国家责任更大。 I owe more to my country than to humanity in general. 因为国家对于我的身份标识来说，其影响占了相当大的份额。 Because my country holds a great stake in my identity. 对我而言，爱国不是偏见。 It is not prejudice for me to love my country 除非你说，比起别人的父母，我更爱自己的父母 也是一种偏见。 unless it is prejudice for me to love my parents more than somebody else’s. AJ，你对 这组人 有什么要说的？ So AJ what would you say to this group? 站起来 Stand up. 我认为，这里有一些基本的道德义务， I think that there is some fundamental, a moral obligation 这些义务是 源自于社群成员的责任，而正是这样的责任 构成了他们的身份标识。 that comes from a communitarian responsibility to people in groups that form their identity. 我的意思是说，比如说 I mean even, like I’ll give the example that, 现在政府的很多做法 there are a lot of things about our government, right now, 我不是很赞同，但是我的部分身份是 that I’m not in favor of but part of my identity is 美国是个崇尚自由的社会，身在其中的我们 可以反对某些事情。 that America values a free society where we can object to certain things 而我认为，这也是爱国主义的一种表现形式 。 and I think that’s an expression of patriotism as well. 然后，我回到父母的那个例子。即使是在哈佛大学， And, I go back to the parent example, even at Harvard, 我认为，比起哈佛大学这个社群，我对我的室友负有更大的责任 I think, I owe more to my roommates because they make up my identity, 因为他们也是 构成我身份的一部分。 than I do it to the Harvard community as a whole. 我认为，这也适用于国家的例子。 因为某些东西已经摆在那里了 And I think that applies to our country because there’s certain things that growing up here, 我们不能选择它 yes, we can’t choose it, 我们不能选择我们的父母，诸如此类的事情。 we can’t choose our parents, things like that. 但它构成了 我们身份标识的一部分 But it makes up part of our identity. 好的，谁同意这一观点？Mike？ Okay, who would like to take that on? Mike? 是的关于对其他人的义务 正是由于生活在他们中间 Yeah about the obligation to the others simply by virtue of being in their, being influenced by them. 受到他们的影响 我是德国人，如果我早生80年的话 I’m a German citizen and if I’ve been born 80 years earlier 我就是纳粹德国的公民 then I would have been a citizen of Nazi Germany. 出于某种原因，我并不认为： And for some reason I just don’t think that 如果我曾经从纳粹那里得到好处， 我就必须感到对德国负有义务。 I would have to feel obligated towards Germany because I had benefited from actions of Nazis. 我的意思是说，我认为 我对此的看法是 I mean I guess my response to that would be 美国现在有成千上万的抗议者 you have hundreds of thousands of protesters in the United States right now 他们举着标语 “和平就是爱国” who hold up signs that say, "Peace is patriotic." 而我相信，在这个教室里 就有人不同意这一观点 And I’m sure there are people in this room who don’t agree with that. 我个人是同意的。我想说的是 I personally do and I would say that 他们强烈地反对，几乎所有布什政府的现行政策 they are strongly objecting to basically everything the Bush administration is doing right now 但是他们依旧认为 自己是爱国的 but they still consider themselves loving their country 因为 他们认为从长远来看，他们所做的对国家来说是最好的。 because they’re furthering the cause of what they see is best for the country. 而我倾向于同意，他们那样的做法也是一种爱国主义行为。 And I tend to agree with that as a patriotic movement. 这么做 怎么会对你们的国家好呢？ Well but how’s that then, how do you still favor your country? 这怎么仍然是 爱国呢？ How’s that still patriotic? 我的意思是说， 那不就成了一种情绪化的爱 了吗？ I mean isn’t that more sentimental attachment? 他们履行的义务在哪？ Where is the obligation there? Rina？ Rina? 尽管我不想 回到 约翰洛克， Yeah not to bring this back to John Locke, but 但我还是想回到他。 I would like to bring this back to John Locke. 在他看来，当人们加入社会的时候 So, I mean in his conception of, when people join society, 仍然存在一些退出的渠道 there’s still some outlet. 如果你对你的社会不满 If you’re not satisfied with your society, 你确实是 可以通过一些方式离开。 you do have a means of exit even though 尽管我们很在乎 我们的出生地方，离开也不是非常现实 we had a lot of concerns about how you’re born and it’s not very feasible, 但洛克 仍然提供了这样的选择。 he still provides that option. 如果我们认为，我们对于社会的责任 是一种道德责任的话， If we want to say that your obligation to society is a moral one, 那就意味着，在你确切地知道 这一社会将会如何发展，以及你在这一社会中的位置如何 之前， 这种义务就存在了； that means that prior to knowing exactly what that society is going to be like or what your position is going to be in that society, 那意味着，你对一个完全未知的对象，负有一种约束的义务 that means that you have a binding obligation to a complete unknown body 而那一对象 可能完全 和你的个人信仰 that could be, completely foreign to all of your personal beliefs 或者你所持的正确看法 所不相符合。 or what you would hold to be correct. 你是否认为，那样的一种公共义务 或爱国主义， Do you think that that kind of communal obligation or patriotism 就意味着 向社群开出了一张 空白的道德支票？ means writing the community a blank moral check? 基本上是的。 Basically, yeah. 我认为，如果说 你在一个社群中长大成人的同时， I think it’s reasonable to say that as you grow and as you develop within the community 你就获得了某种基于互惠的义务，这样说是合理的。 that you acquire some type of obligation based on reciprocity 但如果说，这样你就有了道德上的义务， 我认为还需要更有力的论证。 but to say that you have a moral obligation I think requires a stronger justification. 还有谁？ Who else? 还有谁想 对此发表看法？ Anyone else who would like to address that? 我觉得，我们可以说，如果你与某个社会存在着互惠关系，你就对社会负有 道德上的义务。 I guess we could say you could argue that you are morally obliged to society by the fact that there is that reciprocity. 我认为，我们都参加到社会活动中，我们交了税，我们投票， I think it’s the idea that, you know, we participate in society, we pay our taxes, we vote, 这就是为什么我们可以说 我们欠了社会。 this is why we could say that we owe something to society. 除此之外，我并不认为，因为我们是社会的一员 这个事实， But beyond that I don’t think there’s anything inherent in the fact 就隐含了 我们对社会负有责任。 that we are members of the society itself that we owe at anything. 我认为，仅仅是因为 社会给我们提供一些东西 I think it’s in so far as we, as the society give us something, 给我们保护，安全，保障 gives us protection, safety, security, 所以我们才应当 对社会负有一定的义务。除此这个原因之外，我们没有其他理由 对社会负有责任。 then we owe the society something but nothing beyond what we give the society. 谁同意这一看法？ Who want to take that on? Raul？ Raul? 我不认为，我们给了社会一张 空白的道德支票。 I don’t think we give the community a blank moral check in that sense. 我认为，只有当我们放弃了我们的公民责任是，才能说给 社会开出了一张空白的道德支票。 I think we only give it a blank moral check when we abdicate our sense of civic responsibility 当我们说，爱国主义是一张空白的道德支票，此时 这一辩论就变得必要了。 and when we say that the debate does matter 因为 爱国主义 成了是一种罪恶。 because patriotism is a vice. 我认为 爱国主义是重要的，因为它赋予我们 一种社群感 I think that patriotism is important because it gives us a sense of community, 一种我们能够 参与社群事务的、共同的公民美德。 a sense of common civic virtue that we can engage in the issues. 即使你不同意 政府做事的方式 Even if you don’t agree with the way the government is acting, 你可以在厌恨其做事方式的同时，爱你的国家。 you can still love your country and hate the way it’s acting. 此外我还认为，正是因为出于这种对于国家的爱， And I think because out of that love of county, 你才可以和别人辩论， you can debate with other people 你可以在在 尊重别人观点的同时，仍然参与到和他们的辩论中去。 and have respect for their views but still engage them in debate. 如果你说 爱国主义是一种罪恶，你就放弃了和他们辩论 If you just say that, patriotism is a vice, you drop out of that debate 你就是把位置让给了那些 原教旨主义者们， and you cede the ground to people who are more fundamentalist, 那些观点更加激进的人，那些可能会威胁到社群的人。 who have a stronger view and who may coerce the community. 与此相反，我们应该 让社群中的其他成员 Instead we should engage the other members of the community 参与到 共同的道德基础上来。 on that same moral ground. 我们听到了来自AJ 和Raul的观点， Now this, what we hear from AJ and Raul. 他们的爱国观是 多元的、有争议的、带有批判性思维的。 That’s very pluralistic argumentative critically minded patriotism. 正如我们听到 Ike和这里对爱国主义的批评者们 的意见 Whereas what we hear from Ike and the critics of patriotism 我们所担心的是，如果真的将爱国的义务 视为一种社群的方式， here is the worry that to take patriotic obligation in a communal way, seriously, 这种爱国的忠诚就 不允许我们可以 在各种观念、行为做法中 任意地选择。 involves the kind of loyalty that doesn’t let us just pick and choose among the beliefs or actions or practices of our country. 如果我们所谈论的忠诚 what’s left of loyalty if we’re all talking about, AJ 和Raul AJ and Raul, 如果我们所说的忠诚，只是 对正义原则的忠诚 if all we’re talking about is loyalty to principles of justice 而这些正义原则，可能蕴含在我们的社群里 that may happen to be embodied in our community or not as the case may be. 如果没有的话，我们就拒绝 这种忠诚。 And if not then we can reject its course. 我不知道.. 我觉得我已经替你们回答了。 I don’t know, I sort of given a reply. 我跑题了，抱歉 谁想发言？ I got carried away. I’m sorry. Who would like...? Julia 你说吧 Go ahead Julia. 我想，你需要定义一下，爱国主义 指的是什么 Yeah I think that patriotism you need to define what that is. 听起来，你认为我们对爱国主义的定义 是一个比较不宽松的定义 It sounds like, you would normally think that we are given a more weak definition here of patriotism amongst us 你所理解的爱国主义，仅仅是要求有 国民参与其中 but almost sounds like your definition is merely to have some sort civic involvement in debating within your society. 而我认为，爱国主义的基础涉及到 道德 和 美德 and I think that that kind of undermines maybe some of the moral worth of patriotism as a virtue as well. 我认为，如果你同意 对爱国主义定义更严格一点， I think if you can consent to a stronger form of patriotism if you want 要把 道德义务 也定义进去 that’s a stronger, I guess, moral obligation than even what you’re suggesting. 为了更深入这个争论，我们要看看 来自社群主义者的辩护者的一个例子 What we really need to sharpen the issue is an example from the defenders of communitarianism of a case 在这个例子中，忠诚可以与 正义的普遍原则 相抗衡，忠诚甚至要胜过正义的原则。 where loyalty can actually compete with and possibly outway universal principles of justice. 我们的确需要 检验一下这两者，不是吗？ That’s the test they really need to meet, isn’t it? 好的。这就是你们这一派 需要通过的检验 All right. So that’s the test you need to meet. 或者，你们之中，有谁想觉得，作为社群成员和维持社群团结的义务 Or, any among you who would like to defend obligations of membership or solidarity 是独立于 那些公正的原则 independent of ones that happened to embody just principles. 谁能举出这样的例子 Who has an example of a kind of loyalty 对国家的忠诚，要先于对个人的尊重？ that can and should compete with universal moral claim respect for persons? 说吧 Go ahead. 例如， 我正参加一个经济学的测验， Yeah, if I were working on an [economics] problem set, for example 我发现我的室友 正在作弊。对于他而言，这是一件坏事 and I saw that my roommate was cheating, that might be a bad thing for him to do 但我不会告发他。—— 你不会告发他？ I wouldn’t turn him in. - You would not turn him in? 我不会告发他。因为我认为 我这样做是对的 I wouldn’t turn him in and I think that I would argue that’s the right thing to do 因为 我对他有责任 because of my obligation to him. 这也许是错的。但我还是会那样做 It may be wrong but that’s what I would do 而且，我认为多数人都会这么做 and, I think that’s what most people would do as well. 好的。这是个很好的考验 All right, that’s... Now there’s a fair test. 他并没有 用社群名义，用一些关于正义的普遍原则。（slip out无意地说出） He’s not slipping out by saying he’s invoking, in the name of community, some universal principles of justice. 你叫什么名字？ What's your name? 站在那。你叫什么名字？ Stay there. What's your name? Dan It’s Dan. 好的，Dan。那么大家怎么看Dan的例子？ Dan. So what do people think about Dan’s case? 对忠诚的伦理而言，这是个艰难的考验。不是吗？ That’s a harder case for the ethic of loyalty, isn't it? 但也是个很真实的考验 But a truer test. 多数人同意Dan的说法？ How many agree with Dan? 那么忠诚.....Dan所说的忠诚 还挺有市场 So loyalty... Dan loyalty has its part, if that's it. 多少人不同意Dan呢？ How many disagree with Dan? Peggy. Peggy. 我同意Dan的做法。但是我认为，那只是我们所做的一个选择 Oh well I agree with Dan but I agree that it’s a choice that we make 不一定是对的，或是错的 but it’s not necessarily right or wrong. 我同意 我那么做是做了一个错误的选择 I’m agreeing that I’m going to make the wrong choice 因为我选择了 忠于我的室友 because I’m going to choose my roommate. 但是我也承认，那样的选择在道德上是不对的 But I also recognize that that choice isn’t morally right. 你还是在解释着....Dan的忠诚 So you’re still translating, even Dan’s loyalty, 你是说，那样做是一种选择， you're saying well that's a matter of choice, 但，什么才是正确的？ but what's the right thing to do? 多数人都举手说 Most people put up their hands saying Dan站在他的室友一边 不告发他，是正确的。 Dan would be right to stand by his roommate and not turn him in. 好，说吧 Yes, go ahead. 我也认为，作为一个室友，你了解他的一些内部信息 Also I think as a roommate you have insider information 而你不想把别人的内部信息，拿来作为把柄 and that might not be something you want to use. 因为这样做不是什么公道 That might be something unfair to hold against. 你花了很长的时间与室友相处， You're spending that much time with the roommate, 很明显，你会了解他的一些信息 obviously you're going to learn things about him 我不认为为了一个更大的社群（整个学期），去揭发他 是公正的。 and I don't think it's fair to reveal that to a greater community. 但这样做是忠诚，Vojtech。 But it's loyalty, Vojtech. 你赞同Dan的做法，认为忠诚是道德的关键地方？ You agree with Dan that loyalty is the ethic at stake here? 是的。 Absolutely. 你没有责任说出真相，去揭发作弊的人？ You don't have a duty to tell the truth,to report someone who cheated? 我觉得没有。因为在这里，你了解许多他的信息，而你利用了这个优势来揭发他。 Not if you've been advantage into getting that kind of information. 在结束 对爱国主义批评之前， Before our critics of patriotism leave, 我要给你们另一个说法，一个更众所周知的例子， I want to give you another version,a more public example of what, 我预想，这会是 Dan的一个两难之困境 I guess we should call it Dan's dilemma. 我想看看，大家对此的反应。 Dan's dilemma of loyalty and I want to get the reaction of people to this. 此事发生在马萨诸塞，在好几年前。 This came up a few years ago in Massachusetts. 有谁知道 这个人是谁吗? Does anyone know who this man is? Billy Bulger，对了。Billy Bulger是谁？ Billy Bulger that's right. Who is Billy Bulger? 他担任了 许多年的马萨诸塞州 参议院主席。 He was president of the Massachusetts State Senate for many years. 是马萨诸塞州 最有权力的政治人物之一。 One of the most powerful politicians in Massachusetts 后来，他成了 马萨诸塞大学的校长 and then he became president of the Univeristy of Massachusetts. 你们听说过，关于Billy Bulger的一个故事吗？ Now Billy Bulger, did you hear the story about him that bears on Dan's dilemma? Billy Bulger有一个兄弟叫Whitey Bulger Billy Bulger has a brother named Whitey Bulger 而这就是Whitey Bulger。 and this is Whitey Bulger. 他的兄弟 是联邦调查局的首席通缉犯之一。 His brother Whitey is on the FBI's most wanted list 他被宣称是，波士顿一个臭名昭著的黑帮头目。 alleged to be a notorious gang leader in Boston, 他涉及数起谋杀案，而现在他成了名逃犯。 responsible for many murders and now a fugitive from justice. 但当联邦检察官，他们传召Billy Bulger， But when the US attorney... They called Billy Bulger, 这位马萨诸塞州大学的校长， then the president of the Univeristy of Massachusetts, 在大陪审团和通缉令面前， before the grand jury and wanted information 却拒绝说出 他的兄弟、这名逃犯 on the whereabouts of his brother, this fugitive, 在什么地方。 and he refused to give it. 联邦检察官说：来澄清一下吧，Bulger 先生， US attorney said, "Just to be clear Mr. Bulger, 你觉得对你兄弟的忠诚 you feel more loyalty to your brother than to the people 要比对马萨诸塞人民的忠诚 更重要吗? of the commonwealth of Massachusetts?" 而以下是Bulger的说法 And here's what Billy Bulger said, “我从没那样想过 "I never thought of it that way 但我确实需要对我的兄弟忠诚，我在乎他。 but I do have a loyalty to my brother, I care about him. 我希望，我永远不会帮助 任何反对他的人。 I hope that I'm never helpful to anyone against him. 我没有义务去帮助，那些想抓我兄弟的人。” I don't have an obligation to help anyone catch my brother." Dan，你会同意他的做法。 Dan you would agree. 有多少人会同意Billy Bulger的立场？ How many would agree with the position of Billy Bulger? 让我再给出另一个例子，然后让批评者们回应。 Let me give one other example and then we'll let the critics reply, 我们把这些人，称为反对忠诚的批评者。 the critics of loyalty as we'll describe it. 这里有一个更重大的例子，来自美国历史上的一个人物， Here's an even more fateful example from a figure in American history, Robert E. Lee Robert E. Lee. Robert E. Lee.在南北战争前夕， Now Robert E. Lee on the eve of the civil war, 是联邦军队的军官。 was an officer of the Union Army. 他反对脱离联邦。事实上，他被当成是叛徒。 He opposed secession, in fact,regarded as treason. 当战争逼近， When war loomed, 林肯提出让Lee 全面指挥联邦军队。 Lincoln offered Lee to be the commanding general of the Union Army, 而Lee 拒绝了。 and Lee refused. 在一封给儿子们的信中，Lee描述了 他为什么会拒绝。 And he described in a letter to his sons why he refused. 他写道, "以我对联邦所有的挚爱" “With all my devotion to the Union, ”he wrote, 我也无法作出决定 I have not been able to make up my mind 去反对我的亲友、我的孩子，我的家。" to raise my hand against my relatives, my children, my home. 在这里，他指的是弗吉尼亚。 By which he meant Virginia. ”如果联邦瓦解了，我将返回我出生的州。 “If the union is dissolved I shall return to my native state 去和我的人民 分担不幸。 and share the miseries of my people. 守住她后，我再也不会拔出我的剑。 Save in her defense, I will draw my sword no more. ” Dan，这是对 你所谓的忠诚原则 真正的考验， Now here's a real test, Dan, for your principle of loyalty. 因为这里有战争的起因， Because here is the cause of the war against, 不仅仅要是拯救联邦，而且有反对奴隶制。 not only to save the union but against slavery. 而Lee 要为弗吉尼亚作战， And Lee is going to fight for Virginia 即使他不赞同南方州 脱离联邦的想法。 even though he doesn't share the desire of the southern states to secede. 现在，社群主义者会说，这里有值得大家钦佩的地方 Now the communitarian would say there is something admirable in that. 不管这个决定 最终是否正确， Whether or not the decision was ultimately right, 这里有令人钦佩之处。 there's something admirable. 而且，社群主义者会说，我们甚至无法弄清，Rina And the communitarian would say we can't even make sense, Rina, 我们无法弄清 we can't make sense Lee的两难困境是否是，一种道德的两难困境。 of Lee's dilemma as a moral dilemma 除非我们承认，从Lee的叙述中，他说理解的忠诚 unless we acknowledge that the claim of loyalty arising from his sense of narrative of who he is 是一种道德，而不仅仅是情绪、情感的推动。 is a moral, not just sentimental, emotional tug. 好吧，谁愿意回应一下 Dan所说的忠诚， All right, who would like to respond to Dan's loyalty, 还有 Billy Bulger的忠诚，或Robert Lee对弗吉尼亚的忠诚？ to Billy Bulger's loyalty or to Robert E. Lee's loyalty to Virginia? 你怎么看，Julia？ What do you say Julia? 我想这是一些经典的例子 Okay, well I think that these are some classic examples 涉及了 各种团体的影响 of multiple spheres of influence. 你在选择 你的家庭和国家之间，有互相冲突 And that you have conflicting communities that your family and your country. 我想，这也是为什么选择性地履行义务，是十分重要的原因之一 I think that's one reason why the idea of choice in your obligation is so important 因为除此外，你怎么去解决这个问题？ because how else can you resolve this? 如果你负有道德上的义务，而又没有其他办法 摆脱这个困境 If you're morally obligated and there's no way out of this 你需要同时对两个社群 负有忠诚。 need for loyalty to the both communities, 你进入了困境，什么也做不了。 you're trapped, there's nothing you can do. 你必须做出一个选择。 You have to make a choice. 而我认为，要想根据某些东西，来做出你的决定 And I think that being able to choose based on other characteristics, 除了 仅仅主观地认为，你属于某个团体更为重要以外， than merely the arbitrary fact that you're a member of this community is important, 你觉得还有依据什么呢？我猜，剩下的只有随机选择 otherwise it's left to, I guess, randomness. Julia，这里不是说 ，Dan 或者Billy Bulger或Robert E. Lee，是否做出了选择 Well, Julia, the issue isn't whether Dan makes a choice, or Billy Bulger or Robert E. Lee, 他们当然做了选择。 of course they make a choice. 问题是，他们的决定是基于什么原则 The question is on what grounds, on what principle should they choose? 社群主义者不否认，这里需要做出选择 The communitarian doesn't deny that there is choice to be made. 问题是，选择什么，基于什么理由？ The question is which choice,on what grounds 忠诚是否应该.... and should loyalty, as such, wait... Andre，现在你想发言，好的，你想说什么? Andre now you want to, all right, go ahead. What do you say? 我们注意到有一件事，这三个例子中 Well one of the things we've noticed in the three examples is that 所有人都选择了 更接近自己的团体， the people of all chosen the most immediate community of which they're a part. 更本地化的团体 The more local one. 而我认为要对此说一下。 And I think there's something to be said for that. 它不是随机的。 It's not just random. 我的意思是，这里似乎并不存在着冲突。 I mean, there doesn't seem to be a conflict 因为他们知道，哪一个团体对他们更重要。 because they know which one is more important. 他们的家庭高于 Ec10， And it's their family over the Ec10 Class. 他们的州高于他们的国家， Their state over their country, 而他们的家庭要高于 马萨诸塞州集体。 and their family over the Commonwealth on Massachusetts. 所以，关于什么是更重要的，我们是有答案的 So I think that's the answer to which is more important. 你认为，更本地的、更具体的团体 Do you think that the local, the more particular, 总是道德上更重要的，Andre？ is always the weightier morally, Andre? 我的意思是，在这三个案例中看上去有这种趋势。 Well I mean there's seems to be a trend in the three cases. 我同意这点。 I would agree with that. 我认为，我们中的多数会同意 And I think most of us would agree that 你的家庭也许优先于美国，。 your family takes precedence over the United States perhaps. 这个就是你为什么同意Dan？ Which is why you go with Dan? 对室友忠诚，要胜过 忠于 Ec10班和真话？ Loyalty to the roommate over Ec10 and the truth? 是的。 Yeah, exactly. 我愿意，因为...... I would because it... 我的意思是，说真话。 I mean truth telling, not the truth of Ec10. 是的，-好的，我们明白了。 Yes. - Alright, so we understand. 好的。 Yes. 但在关于家庭这个方面 But on the same example in terms of family, 在内战期间，存��着 兄弟在战争中相互较量的例子 you had cases in the civil war where brother was pitted against brother on both sides of the war, 他们选择国家，而不是家庭。 where they chose country instead of family. 所以，我想同样的，更多时候 So I think the exact same, more shows, 不同的人，会有不同的选择 that different people have different means of making these choices 这里没有一套标准，或一套道德 and that there is no one set of values, or one set of morality 是社群主义者 所坚守的 that communitarians can stick to. 而我个人来看，那也是社群主义者最大的麻烦， And personally, I think that's the biggest problem with communitarians, 他们没有一套标准的道德义务。 that we don't have one set of standard moral obligations. 告诉我你的名字。 - Samantha And tell me your name. - Samantha. 所以Samantha，你赞同Patrick。 So Samantha, you agree with Patrick. Patrick 在另一天的观点是 Patrick's point the other day 也许... that there may be... 假如我们认为，我们的义务是由所在的社群、我们的身份来决定的 If we allow obligations to be defined by community, identification or membership, 他们间也许会冲突，他们也许是一致的，也许会互相对抗。 they may conflict, they may overlap, they may compete. 这里没有明确的原则。 And there is no clear principle. Andre说，这里有一个明确的原则---最具体的 Andre says here's a clear principle,the most particular. 而另一天，坐在那里的Nichola。Nichola在哪儿？ The other day, Nichola who was sitting over here, where's Nichola? Nichola说是最普遍的。 Said that most universal. Samantha，你说， You're saying, Samantha, 社群的大小，不能成为决定性的道德因素。 the scale of the community as such can't be the decisive moral factor. 所以，这里还需要有 另一些道德的判断标准。 So there has to be some other moral judgment. 好吧，让我们首先... All right, let's first... Let's let our defe... 爱国社群主义的批评者们， our critics of communal patriotism, 让我们表达对他们的感激，谢谢他们。 let's express our appreciation and thank them 谢谢他们站在这里，回应这些争论。 for their having stood up and responded to these arguments. 现在，我们转而讨论，我们刚才所听到的 关于公正的多种立场 Let's turn to the implications for justice of the positions that we've heard discussed here. 那些反对把 对社群的忠诚，作为一种独立的道德判断标准，他们的担忧是 One of the worries underlying these multiple objections to the idea of loyalty or membership as having independent moral weight 这种做法，不能找出 普遍适用的公正原则 is that it seems to argue that there is no way of finding principles of justice 因为我们都生活在 某个特定的社群中，我们对什么是美好生活，看法不一样。 that are detached from conceptions of the good life as they may be lived in any particular community. 假设 社群主义者的争辩是对的。 Supposed the communitarian argument is right. 假设，权利优先于何谓好的观念不被支持。 Suppose the priority of the right over the good can't be sustained. 假设，在决定什么是公正的时候，不可避免地要受到，人们对什么是好的 这一观念的影响 Suppose instead, that justice and rights unavoidably are bound up with conceptions of the good. 那是否意味，公正仅仅 Does that mean that justice is simply 是一种大家约定俗成的产物。 a creature of convention, 是一种特定时间、特定团体里所 流行的价值判断 of the values that happen to prevail in any given community at any given time? 批评社群主义者中， One of the writings we have among the communitarian critics Michael Walzer 写了一篇文章 is by Michael Walzer. 他这样描述 正义 He draws the implications of justice this way. ”正义与社会意义有关。 “Justice is relative to social meanings. 一个特定社会是公正的，只要这个社会里的人们 A given society is just if its substantive life is lived in a certain way, 都忠实于 大家的共识 in a way that is faithful to the shared understandings of the members. 所以，Walzer的叙述似乎证实了 一种担忧， So Walzer's account seems to bear out the worry that 如果我们不能找到 独立的关于公正的原则， if we can't find independent principles of justice, 独立于 任何特定群体中流行的 对什么是好的判断 independent that is, from conceptions of the good that prevail in any given community, 因为如果那样的话，我们就会简单地 把公平当成是 that we're simply left with justice being a matter of fidelity or faithfulness 对 这个社会、某个时间里所流行的共识、价值、习俗， 的一种信仰或者忠诚 to the shared understandings or values or conventions that prevail in any given society at any given time. 但 那是一种思考正义的 适当方式吗？ But is that an adequate way of thinking about justice? 让我们看一个短片 Well, let's take a look at a short clip 取自纪录片《Eyes on the Prize》 from the documentary "Eyes on the Prize." 它溯回到1950年代的美国南方。 It goes back in the 1950s in the south. 一些美国南方人 Here are some situated American Southerners 他们信仰传统，对种族隔离制度都有共识 who believed in the tradition and the shared understandings of segregation. 听听他们 关于忠诚和传统的争辩 Listen to the arguments they make about loyalty and tradition 看看它们 是否让你改变刚才的观点 And see if they don't make you uneasy 把公平看作是忠于 特定社会的共识和传统 about tying arguments about justice to the shared understandings or traditions that prevail in any given society at the moment. 让我们放这个短片吧。 Let's run the clip. “这片土地 由两个不同外表的文化 组成， 'This land is composed of two different appearances. 一个白色人种的文化和一个有色人种的文化。 A white culture and a colored culture. 在我的一生中，我和他们紧密地生活在一起 And I've lived close to them all my life. 而现在我被告知，我们虐待了他们。 But I'm told now that we've mistreated them 我们必须做出改变。 and that we must change. 而这些改变 快过我的预期。 And these changes are coming faster than I expected. 我被要求，要用这种新的思维方式 来做出决定 And I'm required to make decisions on the basis of a new way of thinking 而这是困难的。 and it's difficult. 对我来说是困难的，对所有南方人是困难的。” It's difficult for me, it's difficult for all southerners.' 那么这里你们看了，求助于传统的自述。 Well there you have it, narrative selves,situated selves invoking tradition. 这是否向我们展现了 Doesn't that show us that 公正，不能跟 特定时间、特定社会中，所流行的、形成共识的， 大家对何谓好的观念 联系在一起。 justice can't be tied to the shared understandings of goods that prevail in any given community at any given time? 或者是否有办法，能挽救这个例子中的说法。 Or is there a way of rescuing that claim from this example? 思考一下这个问题。下次我们再讨论它。 Think about that question and we'll return to it next time.
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What's the Right Thing to Do - Lecture 10 The Good Citizen and the Freedom to Choose
好公民 THE GOOD CITIZEN 我们来讨论亚里士多德, We turn to Aristotle 在讨论了 after examining theories, 正义的一些当代的理论 modern theories, of justice 这些理论 试图把 that try to detach 正义和权利
considerations of justice and rights 从 道德应得和美德的问题 中分离出去。 from questions of moral desert and virtue. 亚里士多德 不同意 康德和罗尔斯。 Aristotle disagrees with Kant and Rawls. 亚里士多德主张，公正是关于 让人们得到应得之物 的问题。 Aristotle argues that justice is a matter of giving people what they deserve. 而亚里士多德的正义理论 其中心观点就是 And the central idea of Aristotle's theory of justice 在思考 正义和权利 的时候， is that in reasoning about justice and rights we have, 就不可避免地要思考 这些行为的 unavoidably, to reason about the purpose,or the end, or the telos, 目的、目标、或泰罗斯（希腊语，指目标） of social practices in institutions. 确实，正义要求我们 对相同的人，给予相同的东西。 Yes, justice requires giving equal things to equal persons, 但一谈到正义，问题很快来了： but the question immediately arises,in any debate about justice, 在什么方面 相同? equal in what respect? 亚里士多德说，要回答那个问题 And Aristotle says we need to fill in the answer to that question 就得看 它的目标 by looking to the characteristic end, 或其 本性， or the essential nature, 或 我们分配之物 其自身的目的。 or the purpose, of the thing we're distributing. 于是，我们讨论了 亚里士多德 关于长笛的例子。 And so we discussed Aristotle's example of flutes; 谁该得到 最好的长笛？ who should get the best flutes. 亚里士多德的回答是 最好的长笛手。 And Aristotle's answer was the best flute-players. 最好的长笛手 应获得最好的长笛， The best flute-player should get the best flute 因为这样能 彰显 because that's the way of honoring 卓越的长笛演奏 the excellence of flute playing. 这也是对 伟大长笛手 的奖赏。 It's a way of rewarding the virtue of the great flute-player. 有趣的是.... What's interesting though, (这就是我们今天要探究的) and this is what we are going to explore today, 有趣的是，不用目的论 来进行思考，并不那么容易， is that it's not quite so easy to dispense with teleological reasoning 尤其当我们思考 社会制度 when we're thinking about social institutions 和 政治实践活动时。 and political practices. 当我们思考 伦理、正义和道德时， In general it's hard to do without teleology 一般来说，你很难不用到 目的论。 when we're thinking about ethics,justice, and moral argument. 至少亚里士多德 是这么认为的。 At least that is Aristotle's claim. 而我想通过两个例子 And I would like to bring out the force in Aristotle's claim 来解释 亚里士多德的这一观点 by considering two examples. 一个例子是，亚里士多德 花了相当的时间去讨论 One is an example that Aristotle spends quite a bit of time discussing; 政治生活的事例。 the case of politics. 例如，应该怎样分配 国家官职、荣誉称号 How should political offices and honors, 和政府权力？ how should political rule be distributed? 第二个例子是，当代关于高尔夫球的争论。 The second example is a contemporary debate about golf 即 职业高尔夫球协会 是否应该 and whether the Professional Golfers Association 允许 Casey Martin should be required to allow Casey Martin, 这位 有残疾的 高尔夫球手 a golfer with a disability, 允许他 驾驶 高尔夫球车。 to ride in a golf cart. 这两个事例都 体现了 Both cases bring out 亚里士多德 目的论的思考方式 a further feature 一个更深入的特点。 of Aristotle's teleological way of thinking about justice. 这个特点会出现在，当我们考虑 目标 或目的时， And that is that when we attend to the telos, or the purpose, 有时会出现分歧，并争论 sometimes we disagree and argue about what the purpose 某个社会活动 真正存在的目的 是什么。 of a social practice really consists in. 当我们存在 分歧时 And when we have those disagreements 那些分歧中 的关键部分 part of what's at stake in those disagreements 不仅仅是 谁将得到什么 的问题 is not just who will get what, 不仅仅是一个分配问题， not just a distributive question, 更是一个关于 彰显荣耀 的问题。 but also an honorific question. 具有怎样 品质和才华 的人， What qualities,what excellences, 才配得到 那份荣誉？ of persons will be honored? 讨论 目的和目标 Debates about purpose and telos 常常同时 要讨论关于 荣誉的问题。 are often, simultaneously, debates about honor. 现在，让我们来看这些例子 Now, let's see how that works 亚里士多德 叙述政治生活的事例，【】 in the case of Aristotle's account of politics. 这些天，当我们讨论 分配公正时 When we discuss distributive justice these days 我们主要关注 收入、财富、机会的分配。 we're mainly concerned with the distribution of income and wealth and opportunity. 亚里士多德 对分配正义的关注 Aristotle took distributive justice 主要 不集中在 收入和财富上， to be mainly not about income and wealth 而是在 官职和荣誉称号上。 but about offices and honors. 谁才是 有权利去统治的人？ Who should have the right to rule? 谁应该是 一个公民？ Who should be a citizen? 政治权力 应该怎样分配？ How should political authority be distributed? 这些都是 他关于的问题。 Those were his questions. 那么，他是怎样回答 这些问题的呢？ How did he go about answering those questions? 跟他对正义的 目的论解释一样 Well, in line with his teleological account of justice, 亚里士多德主张，为了知道 政治权力该如何分配， Aristotle argues that to know how political authority should be distributed 我们首先要问 政治生活的目的、要点、 we have, first, to inquire into the purpose, the point, 泰罗斯（目的） 是什么 the telos, of politics. 政治生活 是关于什么的？ So, what is politics about? 它怎样帮助我们决定，该由谁来统治？ And, how does this help us decide who should rule? 亚里士多德 的回答是这样的， Well, for Aristotle the answer to that question is, 政治生活 在于 politics is about 塑造品格， forming character, 塑造好的品格， forming good character. 在于培养公民的美德， It's about cultivating the virtue of citizens. 在于美好的生活， It's about the good life. 那才是国家的 最终目的、 政治共同体的 最终目的， The end of the State,the end of the political community, 在《政治学》第三卷，他告诉我们， he tells us in Book Three of the Politics, 政治生活不仅仅是生活，也不只是经济交易， is not mere life, it's not economic exchange only, 不仅仅是 治安， it's not security only, 而是实现美好生活。 it's realizing the good life. 这就是 亚里士多德所认为的，政治生活的目的。 That's what politics is for according to Aristotle. 现在，你可能会担心，你会说： Now, you might worry about this. You might say, “嗯，也许这让我们看到，为什么那些 关于正义和政治 "Well, maybe this shows us why those modern theorists of justice, 的现代理论 and of politics, 是正确的。” are right". 还记得吗，对于康德和罗尔斯 来说 Because remember,for Kant and for Rawls, 政治的要点 不是塑造公民的道德品质。 the point of politics is not to shape the moral character of citizens. 它不是 要让我们变好。 It's not to make us good. 而是要 尊重我们 自由地选择 自己觉得好的东西、 It's to respect our freedom to choose our goods, 选择我们自己的价值 和最终目标， our values,our ends, 并拥有和他人一样 的自由。 consistent with a similar liberty for others. 亚里士多德 不同意这些说法。 Aristotle disagrees. “真正的城邦， "Any polis which is truly so called, 那不仅仅是一个名字 and is not merely one in name, 她一定是献身于，提高美德的目标 之中。 must devote itself to the end of encouraging goodness. 否则，政治的联合 只沦为 一种同盟而已。 Otherwise political association sinks into a mere alliance. 法律 变成了一种协议， Law becomes a mere covenant, 法律 变成了 个人权利的保证人 a guarantor of man's rights against one another, 而没有成为...它应该要成为... instead of being - as it should be - 政治应该要 让城邦里的成员们 变得善良而公正。” a way of life such as will make the members of a polis good and just." 这就是 亚里士多德的观点。 That's Aristotle's view. 一个城邦不只是，人们共同居住的 一个地方 "A polis is not an association for residents on a common site, 不只是 为了阻止 相互间的不正义行为。 or for the sake of preventing mutual injustice 不只是 为了方便人们交易。” 亚里士多德写道。 and easing exchange." Aristotle writes. “城邦目的和目标 是为了美好的生活， "The end and purpose of a polis is the good life, 而国家的建立，就是为了实现 这一目标。 and the institutions of social life are means to that end." 如果 这就是城邦和政治生活 的目的， Now, if that's the purpose of politics, of the polis, 亚里士多德说，我们就能 以此得到 then, Aristotle says,we can derive from that 分配正义的原则； the principles of distributive justice; 例如，谁该拥有 最大决定权的原则， the principles that tell us who should have the greatest say, 谁该拥有 最大程度政治权力的原则。 who should have the greatest measure of political authority. 而他对此的回答 是什么呢？ And what's his answer to that question? 那些最能 Well, those who contribute the most 建立这样一种机构的，也就是， to an association of this character, 能帮助人们 实现美好生活 的人， namely an association that aims at the good, 就应该 在政治统治中获得最大份额，在城邦中享有荣誉称号。 should have a greater share in political rule and in the honors of the polis. 其理由是， And the reasoning is, 在这个位置上，他们就最能实现 they are in a position to contribute most 政治共同体的 本质目的 to what political community is essentially about. 所以，你能看到 亚里士多德 是怎样 Well, so you can see the link that he draws 把公民和政治权力 的分配正义 between the principle of distribution for citizenship and political authority 和政治生活的目的 联系起来。 and the purpose of politics. 你很快会问，“但为什么？” "But why," you'll quickly ask, “为什么他会声称 "Why does he claim 政治生活，参与政治生活 that political life, participation in politics, 对于 过上美好生活 is somehow essential 在一定程度上 是必要的呢? to living a good life?" 是否有可能 "Why isn't it possible 人们过着 完美的生活， for people to live perfectly good lives, 满意的生活，道德的生活， decent lives,moral lives, 同时却不必 参与到政治生活中？” without participating in politics?" 对此，他给出了 两个回答。 Well, he gives two answers to that question. 他给了 一个不完整的回答，一个初步的答案， He gives a partial answer, a preliminary answer, 在《政治学》第一卷中。 in Book One of the Politics 他告诉我们，只有生活在城邦中 where he tells us that only by living in a polis, 并且参与政治生活 and participating in politics, 才让我们完全实现，作为人类的我们的本性。 do we fully realize our nature as human beings. 人类，从本性上 Human beings are, by nature, 就意味着 要生活在一个城邦之中。 meant to live in a polis. 为什么？ Why? 因为只有在政治生活中，我们才可以真正锻炼到 It's only in political life that we can actually exercise 我们的 语言能力， our distinctly human capacity for language, 亚里士多德认为，有了这种能力 才能 思考对与错， which Aristotle understands is this capacity to deliberate about right and wrong, 思考 正义与不正义。 the just and the unjust. 而且，亚里士多德在《政治学》第一卷中写道， And so, Aristotle writes in Book One of the Politics, 城邦、政治共同体， that the polis,the political community, 先于个体 自然存在着， exists by nature and is prior to the individual. 这不是说，它在个体出现以前 就存在 Not prior in time, 而是 其目的 先于个体 but prior in its purpose. 人类离开政治共同体， Human beings are not self-sufficient, 单靠自己 living by themselves, 是不可能做到 自给自足的。 outside a political community. “那些孤立的人，那些不能分享到 政治联合体的好处。 "Man who is isolated, who is unable to share in the benefits of political association, 那些不需要 分享的人 or who has no need to share, 因为他 已经自给自足， because he's already self-sufficient, 这样的人，不是一头野兽，就是神。” such a person must be either a beast or a god." 所以，我们要想全面实现 我们的天性 So we only fully realize our nature, 要想 全面发挥 我们的能力， we only fully unfold our human capacities, 就必须 锻炼我们的语言能力， when we exercise our faculty of language, 也就是说，要与 其他公民思考 which means when we deliberate with our fellow citizens 善与恶 about good and evil, 对与错，正义与不正义。 right and wrong, just and the unjust. “但为什么，我们只能在政治共同体中，锻炼语言能力？” "But why can we only exercise our capacity for language in political community?" 你也许会 这样问。 you might ask. 亚里士多德 在《尼各马可伦理学》中 Aristotle gives a second part, a fuller part, 给了一个更完整的回答 of his answer in the Nichomachean Ethics; 我们的阅读材料中，也其中的节选 an excerpt of which we have among the readings. 他解释说，政治的讨论、 And there he explains that political deliberation, 公民生活的行使、 living the life of a citizen, 统治与被统治之间的交替、权力的分享， ruling and being ruled in turn, sharing in rule, 所有这些活动，对美德都是必须的。 all of this is necessary to virtue. 亚里士多德 把幸福定义为 Aristotle defines happiness 不是 最大程度的让 快乐超过痛苦， not as maximizing the balance of pleasure over pain 而是作为一种活动，一种 与美德相一致的 but as an activity,an activity of the soul 灵魂的活动。 in accordance with virtue. 他说，每一个学政治的学生 必须研究灵魂， And he says that every student of politics must study the soul 因为塑造灵魂，是在一个良好的城邦 because shaping the soul is one of the objects of legislation 立法的目标之一。 in a good city. 但是为什么 为了过上 有道德的生活， But why is it necessary to live in a good city 必须生活在一个好的城市里? in order to live a virtuous life? 我们为什么不能 从家庭中，学习好的道德， Why can't we just learn good moral principles at home 或从哲学课堂，或从一本书里， or in a philosophy class or from a book, 按照 那些原则 live according to those principles, 那些规则，那些准则 those rules, those precepts, 来生活呢？ and leave it at that? 亚里士多德说，那种方法是 学不到美德的。 Aristotle says virtue isn't acquired that way. 美德 Virtue 是只有通过实践，才能获得的 is only something we can acquire by practicing, 是只有通过运用，才能获得的。 by exercising the virtues. 它是只能 通过做，才能学到的。 It's the kind of thing we can only learn by doing. 它不能 从书本学到。 It doesn't come from book learning. 在这方面，它很像 长笛演奏的例子 In this respect, it's like flute playing; 学习演奏乐器，你不能够只靠 you couldn't learn how to play a musical instrument well 读一本书来学， just by reading a book about it. 你必须练习， You have to practice, 必须聆听，那些 有造诣的长笛手 的表演。 and you have to listen to other accomplished flute-players. 还有其他一些 实践也是如此， There are other practices and skills of this type. 例如，烹调 Cooking; 我们有 烹调书 there are cookbooks 但从来没有一位大厨，是仅靠书本 来学习烹调的 but no great chef ever learns how to cook by reading a cookbook only. 它只能靠动手做 来学习。 It's the kind of thing you only learn by doing. 讲笑话 可能也是一个例子， Joke-telling is probably another example of this kind. 但从来没有一位 伟大的喜剧演员，只靠读关于喜剧原则的书， No great comedian learns to be a comedian just by reading a book 来学会成为一个喜剧演员。 on the principles of comedy. 那样是 不会成功的。 It wouldn't work. 为什么呢？ Now, why not? 讲笑话、烹调和演奏乐器， What do joke-telling and cooking 这些事物 其共同点 就是 and playing a musical instrument have in common 我们不能完全靠 领会书籍和讲座上的 such that we can't learn them just by grasping a precept or a rule 准则或规则 来把它学会。 that we might learn from a book or a lecture? 它们的共同点是 需要 What they have in common is that they are all concerned with 熟练地 掌握它。 getting the hang of it. 当我们学习如何烹调、演奏乐器、或讲笑话时 But also what is it we get the hang of when we learn how to cook, 我们怎样精通它？ or play a musical instrument, or tell jokes well? 用心觉察细节，每种情况的特别之处。 Discerning particulars, particular features of a situation. 这里没有 没有规则，没有准则 And no rule, no precept, 可以告诉喜剧演员、厨师或音乐家 could tell the comedian or the cook or the great musician 如何培养 那种觉察细节、 how to get in the habit of,the practice of, 和每种情况的特别之处 的习惯。 discerning the particular features of a situation. 亚里士多德说，美德也是那样。 Aristotle says virtue is that way too. 它与政治生活 有什么关联？ Now, how does this connect to politics? 建立美好生活 所需要的美德，其获得的唯一方法 The only way we can acquire the virtues that constitute the good life 就是去运用美德，反复的教导， is to exercise the virtues, to have certain habits inculcated in us, 然后与 其他公民们一起， and then to engage in the practice of deliberating with citizens 讨论 关于善的本性。 about the nature of the good. 那是 政治生活 最终要达到的。 That's what politics is ultimately about. 公民美德的获得 The acquisition of civic virtue, 与他人研讨的能力 的获得 of this capacity to deliberate among equals, 这些都是 在政治生活之外，无法独自得到的。 that's something we couldn't get living a life alone outside of politics. 这就是为什么，为了实现我们的本性， And so, that's why, in order to realize our nature, 我们不得不 参与政治生活。 we have to engage in politics. 这也是为什么，那些最具公民美德的人 And that's why those who are greatest in civic virtue, 比如 伯里克利（古希腊的伟大政治家） like Pericles, are the ones 值得享有 最高国家官职和荣誉称号。 who properly have the greatest measure of offices and honors. 所以，关于 分配官职和荣誉称号 的争论 So, the argument about the distribution of offices and honors 不仅有这样 目的论的特征， has this teleological character, 而且还是一个关于 彰显荣耀 的问题。 but also an honorific dimension. 因为政治的一部分目的，就是为了给 像伯里克利这样的人 以荣誉。 Because part of the point of politics is to honor people like Pericles. 这并不是说，伯里克利 之所以拥有 统治权 It isn't just that Pericles should have the dominant say 是因为他有 最好的判断力 because he has the best judgment, 能得出 最好的结果， and that will lead to the best outcomes, 给公民们 带来最佳的结果。 to the best consequences for the citizens. 尽管 这也是对的，而且很重要。 That's true, and that's important. 但一个更深层的原因，人们觉得伯利克里 But a further reason people like Pericles 之所以 应该拥有最高的 should have the greatest measure 国家官职、荣誉称号和政治权力， of offices, and honors,and political authority, 在城邦里具有 支配的能力 and sway in the polis, 是因为 政治的部分目的，就是要挑选 并把荣誉归于 is that part of the point of politics is to single out and honor 那些最具有 相关美德的 those who possess the relevant virtue, 最具有 公民美德、公民优点、实践性智慧 的人 in this case civic virtue,civic excellence, practical wisdom, to the fullest extent. 那就是 关于荣耀彰显 的这个方面 That's the honorific dimension 与 亚里士多德的政治观 之间的联系 bound up with Aristotle's account of politics. 这里有一个例子 Here's an example 当代的一场争论 体现了这种联系 that shows the link in a contemporary controversy; 它体现了， 亚里士多德 所要告诉我们的 the link to which Aristotle draws our attention 正义和权利，以及 社会生活的目的， between arguments about justice and rights on the one hand 这两者之间的联系。 and figuring out the telos or the purpose of a social practice on the other. 不仅如此，Casey Martin 和他的高尔夫球车 一案中 Not only that, the case of Casey Martin and his golf cart 也体现了 另一种联系， also brings out the link between 即 一项社会活动 或 一项体育运动的目的， debates about what the purpose of a social practice or a game is, on the one hand 以及 何种品质 应该获得荣誉，这两者间的联系； and the question of what qualities should be honored on the other; 也体现了 目的论 与 the link between teleology 分配正义原则 之间的联系 and honor-based principles of distributive justice. Casey Martin 是谁？ Who was Casey Martin? Casey Martin 是一个非常优秀的 高尔夫球手。 Well, Casey Martin is a very good golfer. 能在最高水平的 高尔夫球赛中 竞技。 Able to compete at the highest levels of golf 除有一件事情 but for one thing; 他患有一种 罕见的 he has a rare 腿部血液循环的疾病， circulatory problem in his leg 这使得 他行走非常困难。 that makes it very difficult for him to walk; 不仅困难，而且危险。 not only difficult but dangerous. 所以，他请求 职业高尔夫球协会(PGA)， And so he asked the PGA, 这个管理 职业巡回赛 的组织 which governs the pro tour in golf, 来允许他 参赛时， to be able to use a golf cart 能够使用 高尔夫球车 来代步。 when he competed in professional tournaments. PGA说不行， PGA said no, 于是，他依据《美国伤残法案》提起诉讼， and he sued under the Americans for Disabilities Act; 官司一直打到了 美国最高法院。 he sued in a case that went all the way to the United States Supreme Court. 最高法院 需要解决的问题就是， The question the Supreme Court had to answer was, Casey Martin 是否有权利 does Casey Martin have a right 让PGA 提供和允许他 that the PGA provide him, allow him, 在巡回赛上，使用高尔夫球车？ to use a golf cart on the tour, or not? 这儿有多少人 认为 How many here think that, 从 道德的角度来看 from a moral point of view, Casey Martin 应该 Casey Martin should 有权利使用 高尔夫球车？ have a right to use a golf cart? 有多少人认为，他没有这个权利？ And how many think that he should not have a right to a golf cart, in the tournaments? 多数人 赞同 Casey Martin具有这个权利 So the majority are sympathetic to Casey Martin's right, 尽管 有相当一部分的少数派 不同意。 though a substantial minority disagree. 让我们先听听 Let's first hear from those of you 那些 不支持Casey Martin的声音 who would rule against Casey Martin. 为什么你们认为，PGA不需要 让他骑高尔夫球车？ Why would you not say that the PGA must give him a golf cart? 是的。 Yes. 因为 起初提出 高尔夫球 Since the inception of golf, 因为 这项体育运动 的其中一部分 because it has been part of the sport 高尔夫 一个重要的环节 it is now intrinsically part of golf; 就是 在高尔夫球场上 行走， walking the course. 所以，行走 成为了打高尔夫球的 内在的一部分。 And thus, because it's intrinsic to golf, 我会说，不能在球场上 行走， I'd argue that not being able to walk the course 就等于是 不能完成 这项运动的这个方面， is just not being able to perform an aspect of the sport, 而对于 职业级的水平，这是必要的。 which is necessary to performing at a professional level. 好的，等一下。 Good.Stay there for a minute. 你叫什么名字 What's your name? Tommy Tommy. 顺便问下，你是高尔夫球手吗，Tom？ Are you a golfer, by the way, Tom? 不是经常打，但 Not so much but, yeah, 打一点 a little bit. 这里有没有 打高球的， Are there any golfers here, 我的意思是 真正打高尔夫的？ I mean, real golfers? 谢谢你，教授，那是... Thank you, professor, that was... 不，不 No, no. 我接受你的观点。 I'm just taking your word for it. 这里有没有人是 高尔夫球队的？ Is there someone here on the golf team? 好的。 Yes? 请说你的名字， Tell us your name, 再告诉我们 你是怎么想的。 and tell us what you think. 我的名字是 Michael， My name is Michael 而且我通常会开 一部高尔夫球车。 and I usually take a cart. 所以... So . . . 可能 你不该问我 I'm probably the wrong person to ask. 当我发问时，你的手举很慢，是不是这个原因？ Is that why your hand went up slowly when I asked? 是的。 Yes. 好的，但是Tom说， Alright, but Tom is saying, 先前Tom说，至少 在职业球手的级别上， Tom said a minute ago that at least at the professional level 在球场上行走 是打高尔夫球 所必不可少的。 walking the course is essential to the game. 你同意吗？ Do you agree? 我同意，是的。 I would, yes. 真的？那你为什么 要开球车？ You do? Then why do you take a cart? 而且，你自称是 打高尔夫球的？ And you call yourself a golfer? 不，不。 No, no, no. 我在开玩笑，玩笑。 I'm kidding, I'm kidding. 对此 你怎么说？ What do you say to that? 当我在球场上 用腿走之后 When I have walked the course 这确实给 这项运动 增添了很多 it does add tremendously to the game. 这样比赛就更加难了，真的。 It makes it a lot harder. It really does. 是吗？ Yeah? 好吧，Michael和Tom 留在那儿。 Alright let's hear, Michael and Tom stay there, 让我们听听 那些 let's hear from people who 认为 他有权 骑球车的人的意见 say that he should have a right to a golf cart. 以及为什么？谁准备为 这个立场辩护？ Why? Who is prepared to defend that position? 说吧。 Yes. 嗯，我想 肯定应该要求PGA Well, I think the PGA should definitely 允许他 骑车一辆球车。 be required to give him a golf cart 因为这场争论， 不只是关于 because they argue in the decision that it's not just a matter of, 他是不是也 体验了这种疲劳。 he's not experiencing fatigue. 对他而言，他也是 走了将近一英里， For him he's still walking about a mile, 球车不能 在随便开， the cart can't go everywhere with him, 在这一英里，他仍感受到 比一个健康的球手 and in that mile he is still experiencing more fatigue and pain 更多的疲倦和痛苦。 than a healthy player would. 所以，这不是说 他想免掉 自己的劣势。 So, it's not as if you're removing the disadvantage. 你叫什么名字? What's your name? Riva Riva. Riva，对于Tom的观点，认为 Riva, what do you say to Tom's point 在球场上行走 是比赛必不可少的，你怎么看？ that walking the course is essential to the game? 这就像 一位残疾人 It would be as if 在美国篮球职业联赛上 打球， a disabled player could play in the NBA 却不必 在球场上 跑来跑去一样。 but not have to run up and down the court. 对此 我有两个回应。 Well, I think there are two responses to that. 首先，我不认为 行走是这项运动 不可缺少的， First, I don't think it's essential to the game, 因为绝大多数高尔夫球手，尤其是 平常休闲娱乐时， because most golfers who play,particularly recreationally, 都会开车。 -- 就像Michael一样 play with a cart. -- Like Michael. 而且，在某些巡回赛上 And on several of the tours 你是可以 骑车的。 you can play with a cart; 例如 PGA 元老级 职业高尔夫巡回赛， on the Senior PGA Tour, 耐克巡回赛， on the Nike Tour, 以及 许多的大学赛事 in a lot of the college events. 这些赛事，也几乎 和PGA巡回赛一样 And those events are just as competitive 高水平 、高竞技性。 and just as high level as the PGA Tour. 所以，如果你争辩说，这是该运动的一个重要部分， So, really it's just a matter of selective reasoning 那只是 一次有选择的推论。 if you argue it as an important part of the sport. 哪怕 你非得让他 走这段路， But, even if it is he still does have to walk, 他还是站着 打高尔夫球， he still plays golf standing up, 这并非说 他就可以在轮椅上 打高尔夫了。 it's not as if he's playing golf from a wheelchair. 好的， Alright. 还有谁？ Who else? 说吧。 Go ahead. 我想 比赛的整个目的 I think the whole point of a competition 就是从第二名、第三名中，挑选出最好的。 is that it calls out the best, you know, from the second best or from the third best. 而当我们 谈论国家级水平， And when we're talking about the national level, 我们是在谈论 最高级中的最高级。 we're talking about the highest of the highest. 我想，我们的争论点在于 比赛的目的是什么。 I think what they're arguing about here is the purpose of competition. 而我认为，为了竞赛，你不能改变规则。 And I think in the sake of competition you can't change the rules. 所以，竞赛的目的 需要包括行走？ So, the purpose of the competition includes walking? 行走是 它的一个关键点。你同意Tom. That's an essential, you agree with Tom. 你叫什么名字？ And what's your name? David。 David. 最高法院 裁决 The Supreme Court ruled PGA 得准予Casey Martin使用球车， that the PGA did have to accommodate Casey Martin 而判决的理由是，如Riva所说 and they did it on grounds that Riva mentioned, 行走 并不是这项比赛的 真正关键的部分。 that walking isn't really part of, an essential part of the game. 最高法院的证词说，在高尔夫球场上 行走 They cited testimony saying that walking the court 所消耗的卡路里，比吃下的一个巨无霸（快餐）还少 consumes no more calories than you get eating a Big Mac. 多数法官 都是这样认为。 That's what walking is in golf, according to the majority. 但 Scalia 持有异议。 Scalia was in dissent. Scalia法官 赞同David， Justice Scalia agreed with David. 他说 He said 这里 根本不存在 什么目的， there is no purpose, 试图找出 高尔夫运动的本质目的，不是我们应该的做法。 and it's certainly not your course to try to figure out the essential purpose of golf. 像任何一项体育运动一样，高尔夫完全是为了娱乐。 Golf is like any game, it's strictly for amusement. 而如果有某个团体，打高尔夫为了 其他目的， And if there's a group that wants to have one version of the game 他们可以那样做。 they can have that version of the game. 市场可以决定 人们是否 从中得到娱乐，人们是否喜爱、 And the market can decide whether people are amused 是否会 去现场看或 看电视转播。 and like and show up for that and watch the television broadcasts. Scalia的观点 是 反亚里士多德派的， Scalia's dissent was an anti-Aristotelian dissent, 因为注意看看 他的论点的 其中两个地方。 because notice two things about the argument; 其一，我们在讨论的是 高尔夫球的 first we're thrust into a discussion about what the essential nature, 真正本质 和 目的 or purpose,or telos of golf really is. 高尔夫 包括行走吗？ Does it include walking? 我认为 这场争论的背后 是在讨论 And, here's something I think is rumbling beneath the surface of this debate, 行走 是否在一定程度上决定了，高尔夫是否算是一项 真正的运动竞赛？ whether walking partly determines whether golf is really an athletic competition. 毕竟，在高尔夫球 是静止的 After all, the ball sits still. 你必须 把它打进洞里。 You have to put it in a hole. 高尔夫球 是否更类似于 篮球、棒球和橄榄球？ Is it more like basketball,baseball, and football? 它是否真的算是 一项体力运动竞赛？ Golf, an athletic competition? 还是说 它更像 台球？ Or is it more like billiards? 台球 也是静止在那里。 The ball sits still there too. 就算你身体不好，也能参加。 You can be out of shape and succeed. 它包含了 技巧 It involves skill 但不是体力运动 的技巧。 but not athletic skill. 会不会是 那些 擅长高尔夫的人 职业球员认为， Could it be that those professional golfers, who excel at golf, 把高尔夫 作为一项运动项目 来被世人 认可和尊敬， 是十分重要的， have a stake in golf being honored and recognized as an athletic event, 而不只是被人当作 一项类似于桌球的技巧游戏？ not just a game of skill like billiards? 假如 那是关键的问题，我们就会有一场 And if that's what's at stake, then we have a debate 关于目的，从目的论的角度 的讨论 about the purpose, the teleological dimension, 以及 关于荣誉的讨论。 and also a debate about honor. 是哪种美德 真正 What virtues, really, 让高尔夫运动 值得 被荣誉和认可？ does the game of golf honor and recognize? 亚里士多德的这两个问题 引起了我们的关注 Two questions to which Aristotle directs our attention. 我们下次 继续这个案例。 We'll continue on this case next time. 这个世界上有两种人，一种是快乐的猪，一种是痛苦的人。 做痛苦的人，不做快乐的猪。 我像一只猎犬一样追寻真理的足迹。 -------苏格拉底 上次结束时，我们在谈论 When we ended last time we were talking about Casey Martin 是否有权利 在PGA巡回赛中 whether Casey Martin has a right to ride in a golf cart 以高尔夫球车 代步 in the PGA Tournament. 大家最好回忆一下 我们上次的讨论， And it's worth remembering how we got into this debate 而什么才是 理解政治哲学的关键点。 and what's at stake for an understanding of political philosophy. 还记得，我们在谈到 亚里士多德的正义理论， Remember, we were looking at Aristotle's theory of justice 其正义理论 的取向 and one way of describing his approach to justice, 我们称其为“目的论” we've called it 'teleological'. 从目的论的角度看来，为了分配权利 Teleological, because he says to allocate rights 首先我们不得不弄清 关于其 社会活动 we first have to figure out the purpose, or the end, 的目的 或最终目标。 of the social practice in question. 其正义理论 的另一个取向 Another way of describing Aristotle's account of Justice 对于亚里士多德来说，关于 适宜度的问题； is that justice is, for him, a matter of fit; 即 让具有美德和才华的人 it's a matter of fitting persons with their virtues and excellences 配上 合适的角色 to the appropriate roles. 现在，我想 先结束关于Casey Martin Now, I want to finish our discussion about Casey Martin 争取以车代步 的讨论。 and his claim for a golf cart, 然后，再回到 另一个 更深远意义的问题。 and then go back to one more consequential application in Aristotle, 即 奴隶制的问题。 namely, the question of slavery. 对于Casey Martin的请求，你是怎么看的？ What do you think about Casey Martin's request? 我们是否应该 为他提供 这个方便（以车代步） Should there be an accommodation or not, 考虑到 这项运动 及巡回赛的本质 given the nature of the game and of the tournament 以及其 目的? and its purposes? “如果不提供他 一部球车，算不算歧视呢？” "Isn't it discrimination if he's not provided the golf cart as an accommodation", 一些人说。 say some. 其他人回应说，“那���算歧视，如果他可以骑车，对其他选手 不公平 Others reply, "No, if he got a cart it would be unfair to the other golfers 因为他们都得 花力气， because they exert themselves, 在球场上行走，变得气喘吁吁、疲惫 become winded, fatigued,walking the course". 我们上次 讨论到此 That's where we left it. 大家怎么看 关于公平的问题 ？ What about the fairness argument? 好，Jenny OK, Jenny. 我的问题是 My question was 为什么PGA 不让所有球手 都可以 why doesn't the PGA just make the option of a cart 选择 开或不开 球车？ available to all golfers? 通过阅读材料 我了解到，许多不是 PGA组织的 高尔夫巡回赛， From our readings I learned that there are many golf tournaments, other than the PGA, 并不禁止使用球车。 where using a cart is not prohibited. 比如 元老级巡回赛，就允许 并鼓励使用。 For instance, the Seniors Tournament it's even allowed and encouraged. 所以,为什么PGA 不这么做呢？ So why doesn't the PGA just do that? 为什么 不让所有人 都使用球车呢？ Let everybody use a cart? 允许 给所有人 使用球车， Give everyone the option of using a cart 然后 大家选择 用还是不用 and let them pick. 这样的话，那些比较守旧的人 可能依旧会说， So then the traditionalists can then still say, “好吧，我仍然 选择在球场上行走。 "Well, I still choose to walk the course 尽管我知道，这样会比 那些 but I do that knowing that I will be more tired at the end 开车的人更累。 than the people who took the cart." 好 Good. 好的，大家觉得 Jenny的提议 怎么样？ Alright, so what about Jenny's solution? 为了公平， For the sake of fairness, 为了避免说 只给Casey Martin 有（开车的）优势。 don't give Casey Martin an advantage, （如果 开球车真的 算是一种 优势的话） if indeed there is an advantage to riding in a cart. 那就 让所有 想开球车的人 Let everyone who wants to 去开吧。 use a cart. 是不是 所有人都对 这个方案满意呢？ Is everyone happy with that solution? 这是否就能 平息 整个两难困境呢？ Does it put to rest this whole dilemma? 谁想 回应一下Jenny？ Who has an answer for Jenny? 说吧。 Yes. 正如 上节课 提到的 As was brought up last time, 如果你那样做，你就是 有损 高尔夫的精神。 if you do that you kind of ruin some of the spirit of golf 而这种精神 是许多人 乐意看到的。 as a lot of people like to see it. 如果你允许 每个人开球车， If you let everybody take a cart. 就算这样能 给予每个人 同样的比赛条件， Even though it gives everybody the same playing field now, 它让高尔夫 更不像 一项运动项目， it sort of makes golf less of an athletic game, 像上节课 有人指出的那样。 like people pointed out last class. 这就像 如果有人决定 参加一项体育赛事， It's just like if someone decides to go into another sport 而他们想要 占点优势。 and they want an advantage. 比如，假设你去游泳， Like, if you have swimming 然后你说，“好吧，他想把 脚蹼也穿上 and then you say, "OK, he wants flippers 为什么我们不允许，所有人在游泳时 都穿上脚蹼呢？ so why don't we just allow everyone to have flippers when they're swimming?" 假设在 奥运会游泳赛事上，让人们自由使用脚蹼， And what would that do to the Olympic Swimming Competition, 又会发生什么呢？ if people were free to use, Jenny，我们最好让Jenny来 回应这个问题。 Jenny, we better let Jenny reply to this. Da 说，那样好像 有损运动竞赛的精神 Da says it would sort of spoil the spirit of the athletic competition 就好像 奥运会游泳项目，你让所有人都可以 as if in Olympic swimming you let anyone who wanted to 穿上 脚蹼比赛。 swim with flippers. Jenny，你怎么对Da说？ Alright, Jenny,what do you say to Da? 那��破坏 运动的精神。 It would spoil the spirit of it. 你同样会 破坏高尔夫的精神， You're also ruining the spirit of golf 如果你 不允许一个 真正热衷于、而且非常擅长这项运动的人 参赛 by not letting people who are really passionate about the game, and very good at it, 只因 在高尔夫的一个方面 （他不能达标） compete simply because of an aspect of golf which is not, 高尔夫运动的核心 是用高尔夫球杆 击打球 the main point of golf is you use the club to make strokes 并把它 打入洞中。 and hit it into a hole. 对不起，我不打高尔夫， I'm sorry, I'm not a golfer 但就我所看到的，那才是它的要点。 but that's basically the gist of the game from what I see it. 我读了 PGA和Casey Martin 的裁决 And I was reading the PGA versus Casey Martin decision 判词中，他们说， that was one of the sentences that they said 因为 在球场上行走，不是高尔夫 的本质部分， is because walking the course is not an inherent part of golf, 只有 挥动球杆才是。 only swinging the club is. 好，Jenny回答了Da的问题。 Good. So, Jenny replies to Da, 那么，在球场上行走 真的不是必要的吗？ well, it isn't really essential anyhow to walk the course. 那么，我们回到 对目的 的讨论 So, we're back to the purpose. 我的意思是，我确信，像轮椅篮球一样 I mean, I'm sure there are, like wheelchair basketball, 我们会有 许多不同的竞赛 there are certain different competitions 允许那些残疾人 只需要动动 他们的手臂 也能参赛 that can be made for people who may only be able to use their arms. 好的，是 Right. Yes. Michael你怎么认为？ Michael what do you think? Jenny刚才说，像 轮椅篮球 Jenny just said that there is stuff like wheelchair basketball 假如你不能打篮球，你还有这个 选择 where if you can't play basketball there is another option. 我想，在PGA巡回赛里 有着另外的选择， I think there are other options in the PGA Tour. 但PGA巡回赛 是最好的、顶级的。 But the PGA Tour is the best,is the pinnacle, 而你不得不 尽全力 来完成比赛的要求。 and you have to have certain requirements fulfilled to perform. 好的，Michael，你想对Casey Martin说， Alright, Michael, you want to say to Casey Martin 我们有 残奥会 there is such a thing as a Special Olympics 供 那些残疾人 参加。 for those who are disabled. 去参加 残奥会版本的 高尔夫赛事吧。 Go play in the golfing version of the Special Olympics. 那就是你要说的？--是的。 That's what you would say Michael? -- Yeah. 我认为，行走是 高尔夫运动的一部分。 I think that walking is part of the sport of golf. 而对于Casey Martin，如果他不能在球场上行走， And Casey Martin, you know if he can't walk the course 我不认为 他能在PGA比赛。 then I don't think he should be able to play in the PGA. 好的，非常谢谢 你们的争论， Alright, well thank you very much for that exchange. 这场争论 的什么结论 What comes out of this exchange 让我们 又回到 亚里士多德的正义理论？ that goes back to Aristotle's theory of justice? 其中一点 就是 Well, one thing is the question, 行走是 高尔夫的 本质部分吗? is walking an essential part of golf? Casey Martin是否拥有，PGA必须去尊重的权利， And the very fact that deciding whether there is a right 要决定这件事 似乎取决于 for Casey Martin that the PGA must respect, seems to depend, （这也是亚里士多德所建议的 讨论和解决问题的方式） as Aristotle suggests it must, on debating and resolving the question, 行走 是高尔夫的 本质部分吗? is walking essential to the game of golf? 这是该故事的 其中一个道德问题。 That's one moral of the story. 而这里还有 第二个道德问题， But there's a second moral to the story 按照 亚里士多德的观点来看。 from an Aristotelian point of view. 这场讨论的关键之处 What's at stake here, 也是 亚里士多德提出的 第二个的关键之处 this is the second Aristotelian stake in this debate, 就是荣誉。 is honor. Casey Martin 想争取骑车参赛，那样他 就能 Casey Martin wants the accommodation so that he can compete 去争取 PGA这项顶级赛事 的荣誉 for the honor of winning the best tournaments. 现在，为什么 Now, why is it 那些 职业高尔夫球手，那些优秀的球手， that the professional golfers,the great golfers, 例如Jack Nicklaus、Tom Kite，他们上庭作证时 testified in this case - Jack Nicklaus, Tom Kite - 在这次阅读材料中，我们看到 in the readings, 他们 反对让他 用球车， against letting him use a cart 而且 我相信，他们同样会强烈反对Jenny and they, I would suspect,would be equally vehement, Jenny, 你的 让每个人驾驶球车 的建议。 in opposing your suggestion of letting everyone ride in a cart, 从某种意义上，它回到了Da的观点。 and this goes back, in a way,to Da's point. 让高尔夫 轻松点怎么样? How to put this gently? 职业高尔夫球手 对于 Professional golfers are sensitive 他们所参加的运动 是否是一项真正的运动 是十分敏感的。 about whether their sport is really a sport. 假使每个人都 骑着一辆球车，或允许大家这么做 Because if everyone rode around in a cart, or could, 很显然 then it would become clear, or clearer, （取决于 你们各自的看法） depending on your point of view, 高尔夫 就不算是一项 真正的运动竞技。 that golf is not really an athletic competition 而只是一个 游戏 but rather a game; 一项技巧的游戏，而非运动。 a game of skill but not a sport. 这不仅是在 讨论目的、目的论的问题 And so not only the question of debating the purpose, the teleological feature, 而且是在讨论 从什么角度，来讨论高尔夫的目的。 but also from the standpoint of viewing debates about the purpose of golf. 高尔夫球 的本质是什么？ What's essential to golf? 亚里士多德 建议说，这些讨论 Those debates, Aristotle suggests, 都会不可避免的讨论到 关于分配荣誉的 问题 inevitably are also debates about the allocation of honor. 因为高尔夫球 的部分目的， Because part of the purpose of golf 不仅仅 是娱乐观众； is not just to amuse spectators; 从亚里士多德的观点来看，Scalia在这点上错了。 Scalia's wrong about that, from Aristotle's point of view. 它不仅仅是 提供娱乐， It's not just to provide entertainment, 不仅仅是 让人们快乐， it's not just to make people happy. 它不仅仅是 一项娱乐。 It's not a mere amusement. 它是荣誉，是奖赏， It's honoring, it's rewarding, 它在认可 一种特定的 运动才能， it's recognizing a certain kind of athletic excellence, 至少 那些取得过 高尔夫最高荣誉的人， at least those who have achieved the highest honors 都会 强烈地支持 这种观点。 have a powerful stake in maintaining that view. 你们中有些人 站在了Scalia的立场。 Now, some of you took the position the Scalia position. Scalia说：“这是一个非常困难的、愚蠢的问题。” "This is an incredibly difficult and silly question", Scalia said. “高尔夫的 本质是什么？” "What is the essential nature of golf?" 那不是 美国最高法院 能够回答 It's not the kind of thing that the United States Supreme Court 或者 应该回答的问题。 is equipped to decide,or should decide. 那就是 Scalia的观点 That's Scalia. 而他说... But he only he says that 对于 高尔夫的本质是什么 这个问题， because he takes a very strong,and as it happens, 他碰巧 采取了一种强烈的 反亚里士多德派的立场， anti-Aristotelian position on what a game is. “一项游戏 的真正内涵 是没有目的的，” "It is the very nature of a game to have no object, " （即没有所谓的 关键点） no point, “除了娱乐（的目的）”，Scalia说。 "except amusement" says Scalia, 他说，“那是 游戏和生产活动 之间的区别所在。” "That is what distinguishes games" he says, "From productive activity." 你可以想象，Scalia会是 哪种体育的爱好者。 You can just imagine what kind of sports fan Scalia must be. “还有”，他说， "And so", he says, “我们不能说，游戏的任何一种主观的规则 就是其本质。” "It's impossible to say that any of the game's arbitrary rules is essential." 然后，他援引了 马克·吐温 关于高尔夫的 And then he quotes Mark Twain's disparaging remark 贬低性评论。 about golf. 他说：“许多人 视行走 为高尔夫的首要特征。” He says, "Many consider walking to be the central feature of golf. 这里是 马克·吐温对其 的经典批评： Hence, Mark Twain's classic criticism of the sport ‘一次的好好散步 被破坏了。’” 'a good walk spoiled'." 但是Scalia忽略了 But Scalia misses 游戏的 一个重要特点 an important feature of games 还有 当讨论到 权利和公平的问题时 and the arguments about rights and fairness that arise from games, 他说 游戏、体育、运动性竞技， when he casts games,sports, athletic competitions, 只是单单为了娱乐 as solely for the sake of amusement; 只是一项 功利主义的消遣。 as solely an utilitarian activity. 而一个 持亚里士多德观点的人 会说 But an Aristotelian view of sports says, 不，这不只是关于娱乐。 no it's not just about amusement, 真正的体育，真正的运动项目， real sports,real athletic events, 还是一种欣赏，不只是娱乐。 are also about appreciation,not just amusement. 那些 看体育的、关心体育、参与体育的人 And people who follow sports and care about sports 都了解这一点。 and play sports know this. 换句话说， Which is another way of saying, 观赏体育 和 纯粹看大场面 是有区别的， there's a difference between a sport and a mere spectacle. 区别在于，体育是 一项实践活动， And the difference is that a sport is a practice 它召唤 力量、荣誉和奖赏， that calls forth and honors and prizes 还有特定的才能、特定的美德。 certain excellences,certain virtues. 而那些会欣赏 这种美德的人 And the people who appreciate those virtues 才是真正的、有见识的 体育迷。 are the true fans, the informed fans, 对于他们，看体育比赛 不只是娱乐， and for them watching the sport is not mere amusement. 而这意味着，我们总是能 找到 But that means that it's always possible to make sense of the debate about 什么 是一项体育的本质特征 what feature of a sport is essential to it. 我们是可以 弄清这些争论的。 We can make sense of these arguments. 而无需在意 是否应该 由法庭做这个判断。 Never mind the question whether the court should decide. PGA在自己 内部的审议里 The PGA in its own internal deliberations 能够弄清 这个问题， can make sense of that debate, 这就是为什么，他们会非常在意 他们的观点， which is why they cared very much about their view, 坚持他们的观点， insisting on their view, 坚持认为 行走、（以及其带来的） 费力、疲劳， that walking,an exertion, and fatigue 是体育的 本质部分，而非无关紧要的。 are essential, not peripheral,parts of sport. 这些阐释了 Well, this is all to illustrate 目的 和 荣誉的 这两个特征。 the teleological and the honorific feature of debates about rights, 亚里士多德说，我们在思考正义时 要考虑到这两点。 which Aristotle says we need to take account of in thinking about justice. 现在，我想让 大家思考 Now, I want to begin for us to consider 亚里士多德的正义理论 whether Aristotle's theory of justice 是否正确。 is right or wrong; 是否 有说服力 whether it's persuasive or unpersuasive. 我要听听 你们对此的想法。 I want to get your thoughts about that. 我希望看到 有人提出 鲜明的、重要的 反对意见。 But I want to anticipate one obvious and important objection. 如果 公正是 关于适宜度的问题，找到人们 合适的角色。 If justice is about fit,fitting persons to roles, 让那些 具有美德的人 matching virtues 找到 合适的荣誉和承认。 to the appropriate honors and recognition. 如果 那就是正义， If that's what justice is, 那么，它还留下 自由的空间吗？ does it leave room for freedom? 这是 对亚里士多德的 正义的目的论说法 And this is one of the main objections 主要反对意见之一， to Aristotle's teleological account of justice. 如果 某些特定的角色、社会角色， If certain roles,social roles, 就是我 恰当的、合适担当的 角色。 are fitting,or appropriate, to me 那么，我还有权 为自己选择 where does that leave my right 我的社会角色, to choose my social roles, 和 我的生活目标 吗？ my life purposes,for myself? 目的论 给自由 留下了空间吗？ What room does teleology leave for freedom? 事实上，你可能会记得， And in fact,you may remember, 罗尔斯 否认正义的 目的论说法。 Rawls rejects teleological accounts of justice 因为他说， because he says that 正义的 目的论的理论 teleological theories of justice 威胁到了 threaten 公民们 平等的 基本权利。 the equal basic rights of citizens. 所以，让我们开始 检验一下 So, let's begin to examine 亚里士多德 是不是正确的？ whether Aristotle is right, 特别是，他思考正义的 目的论方法 and in particular, whether his teleological way of thinking about justice 是否 与自由 相冲突。 is at odds with freedom. 现在，一个 明显需要 我们担心的理由是 Now, one obvious reason to worry 亚里士多德 为奴隶制的辩护。 is Aristotle's defense of slavery. 他维护 奴隶制。 He defends slavery, 奴隶制 是他那个时代雅典 的一种制度。 which existed as an institution in the Athens of his day. 他是怎样 为奴隶制辩护的呢？ Well, what is his defense of slavery? 要让 奴隶制 是公正的， Two things, two conditions,have to be met 需要满足两件事、两个条件， for slavery to be just. 首先，奴隶制 是必须的。 First, it has to be necessary. 亚里士多德说，至少在我们的社会中， and Aristotle says,at least in our society, 奴隶制是必须的。 slavery is necessary. 为什么它是必须的? Why is it necessary? 如果要让 其中一些公民 无需参 If there are to be citizens 手工作业，以及 奴仆性的、家务性的杂活， who are freed from manual and menial and household chores 从而去 参加集会，去研讨政治。 to go to the assembly,to deliberate about politics, 那么，就不得不 让另一些人 去干那些 奴仆性的工作， there have to be some who look after those menial tasks; 这些 维持生活 所必须的工作。 the mere necessities of life. 他说，除非你们能 发明一些科幻的， He says, unless you could invent in some science-fiction 或 技术设备， a technological fix 然后 让它们代替 那些奴隶 then there are going to be those who have to do 去完成 这些艰苦的 家务活。 the hard and difficult and menial labor 假如 一些公民们 要去研讨善 if there are going to be citizens deliberating about the good 要想 实现自己本性。 and realizing their nature. 所以，奴隶制是必须的 So slavery is necessary 那是为了 过上城邦生活， for the life of the polis 为了 让一些公民 有这个机会 for there to be open to citizens. 为了 参与 研讨、辩论的、实践智慧 的生活， The life of deliberation,of argument, of practical wisdom. 当然，这里 需要满足一些 更为深入的条件， But there's a further condition that has to be met. 奴隶制不仅是作为 维持整个社群 所是必须的， Slavery has not only to be necessary for the community as a whole to function, 而且它现实就是如此。 还记得 刚才关于 适宜度的那个标准吗？ but it also has to be the case, remember the criterion of fit? 不得不有 奴隶制，因为 对于一些人来说 It also has to be the case that there are some people 成为一个奴隶，是公平的，或者说 是恰当的， for whom being a slave is the just, or the fitting, 或者说 这些人具备了 适合的条件。 or the appropriate condition. 亚里士多德 按照他自己的标准， Now, Aristotle agrees that by his own standards, 赞同说，想要奴隶制是公平的， both of those conditions must be met, must be true, 就必须满足 这些条件。 if slavery is to be just. 在一段 凄惨的文字中， And then,in a deplorable passage, 他说，确实有一些人，他们的天性 就适合去做奴隶， he says, well, it is true that there are some people who are fit by nature 他们有 成为奴隶的素质。 who are cut out to be slaves. 而另外有些人，他们则 有别于 一般人， These are people who differ from ordinary people 尽管有同样的身躯，却有不一样的灵魂， in the same way that the body differs from the soul. 有些人 就是要被统治， These are people who are meant to be ruled, 对于他们来说， and for them 成为奴隶，就是实现 他们本性的 最佳途径。 their nature is best realized if they're slaves. 他们 可以从其他人身上 认识到理性， They can recognize reason in others 但他们 无法参与其中，也无法运用理性。 but they can't partake of it,they can't exercise it. 而 我们 多多少少 了解到这点。 And somehow we can know this. 亚里士多德 一定料到，这样说是危险的， Now, Aristotle must have known that there was something dodgy, 这种说法 是有压力。 something strained about this claim, 因为他很快知道，那些不支持他的人 会有一个观点。 because he quickly acknowledges that those who disagree may have a point. 而那些不同意的人，会指出一点 And what those who disagree point out is 在雅典，有许多人 是奴隶， that there are a lot of people in Athens who are slaves 不是因为 他们生来 就是奴隶，或 适合当奴隶， not because they were born to be slaves, or fit to be slaves, 只因为 他们被俘虏了，他们是战争的失败者。 but because they were captured, they were losers in a war. 所以，亚里士多德承认，在现实中，古代雅典里 And so, Aristotle admits that as practiced in ancient Athens, 奴隶身份 不一定是 他们真的合适 slavery didn't necessarily line up with who actually is fit 或天生做奴隶。 or born to be a slave, 因为 一些现实中的奴隶，只是因为 不走运， because some actual slaves just were slaves by bad luck, 在战争中 被俘虏 而成为了奴隶。 by being captured in a war. 按亚里士多德的论述， And on Aristotle's own account 就算是因为公民的缘故，必须要有奴隶制度， even if it's necessary to have slavery for the sake of citizenship 但如果一个人 不适宜当奴隶，而被分配到这个角色， it's unjust if people who aren't properly slaves 那是不公平的， are cast in that role. 是不合适的。 There is a misfit. 亚里士多德 承认，让那些 不适合的人成为奴隶，这样的奴隶制度 Aristotle recognizes that slavery for those who aren't fit for the task 是一种强迫。 is a kind of coercion. 说奴隶制是错的原因，不在于 它是强迫的。 The reason slavery is wrong is not because it's coerced. （尽管）强迫 也是表明 它就是错的 一个指标， Coercion is an indicator that it's wrong, 因为 这种奴隶身份 并非出于 本性。 because it's not natural. 假如 你不得不强迫 某些人担当一个角色， If you have to coerce someone into a role 这明显说明，他们不属于 那里， that's a pretty good indication that they don't belong there, 这个角色 不适合他们， that that role isn't fitting for them. 而亚里士多德 承认这点。 And Aristotle recognized this. 所有这些，关于 亚里士多德 So, all of this is to say the example of slavery, 为奴隶制辩护 的例子， Aristotle's defense of it, 并非说明了，目的论的原则、 doesn't show that there isn't anything wrong in principle 人和角色之间 要匹配的 这种正义的观念 with teleological argument,with the idea of justice as fit 其中一些地方 是错误的， between persons and roles, 因为 我们完全可以 用亚里士多德自己的说法， because it's perfectly possible within Aristotle's own terms, 来解释 这个实际应用的问题 to explain what's wrong with this application, 错在哪里。 this practical application that he made of his theory. 我想以自由的名义，来对亚里士多德进行 一个更大的挑战。 I want to turn to the larger challenge to Aristotle in the name of freedom. 但在那么做 之前， But before I do that 我想看看，人们是怎么想的 I want to see what people think 对于亚里士多德 的这个 正义即适宜度 的说法， of Aristotle's account of justice as fit, 他的这种 目的论的方式， his teleological way of reasoning about justice 以及 荣耀彰显的角度 and the honorific dimension of rights 还有我们对 and of distributive justice 长笛、政治生活和高尔夫的讨论中 出现的分配正义问题。 that immerged in our discussion of flutes and politics and golf. 你们可以 借此弄清楚 没听明白的地方。 Questions of clarification about Aristotle 或者 提出反对理由。 or objections to his overall account. 说吧。 Yes. 我反对 亚里士多德的理由 在于 My objection to Aristotle 他想 帮人们 匹配到 一个相应的角色。 is that he wants to match a person to a role. 如果 你像个海盗 一样走路和说话， And, you know, if you walk like a pirate and you talk like a pirate, 那么，你应该去当海盗。 这是正确的。 you know, you should be a pirate.And that is what is right. 我觉得，亚里士多德的观点 And so what's strange and seems paradoxical to me 其 奇怪和自相矛盾的地方 在于 about Aristotle's view point 如果 你像一个海盗一样走路和说话， is that if you walk like a pirate and you talk like a pirate 你就不能 当投资银行家， you shouldn't be an investment banker, 因为 那不是 你本性 该要做的。 because that's not what you're inherently supposed to do. 假设 你有一条假腿、一个眼罩 If you have a peg leg and an eye patch 和一副不满的性格， and a disgruntled disposition,you know, 你应该去 到海盗船上 远海航行。 you should be on a pirate ship on the high seas. 所以他没有... So he doesn't... 但有些人会说 Some would say 这两种 职业之间的差别 that the distinction between the two vocations 不像 你说的那么大 is not as clear as you suggest. 不过 你说的很好。 Alright, but that's good. 我理解 你的观点。 I take your point. 好的，继续。 Yes, go ahead. 这似乎 忽视了个人权利。 It just seems to ignore individual rights. 我也许是 全世界最好的看门人。 So, I might be the perfect janitor in the whole world 我能把 那份工作 干得最有效率， and I can do that job the most efficiently 好过 现今世上的所有人。 out of anybody that exists right now, 但也许 我不想从事它。 but I might not want to do that. 也许 我想从事 其他某种职业， I might want to do any other number of pursuits 对我来说 似乎不是 一个真正好的选择。 and it seems to say that that isn't really a good option for me. 好的，你的名字？ Alright, and what's your name? -- Mary-Kate。-- 好。 -- Mary-Kate. -- Good. 让我们再听 两个人的发言。 Alright, let's take a couple more. 说吧。 Yes. 我想，在高尔夫球车 的争论中 I think that the golf cart exchange 提到了一点，是我反对 sort of brought up what I see as my main objection 这种目的论的推论模式的 主要理由。 to this teleological mode of reasoning. Michael，我想那是你的名字，��吧？ I mean, Michael, I think that's your name, right? Michael认为，行走 是高尔夫的内在部分。 Believes that walking is an inherent part of golf. 而我自己则认为， 行走 不是其内在部分。 Myself, I believe that walking is not an inherent part of golf. 我感觉，无论花多长时间， And I feel that no matter how long 去争论这一点， we debate this particular point of contention 都永远不会 达不成一致的意见。 we're never going to reach an accord. 我认为，目的论的推论方式 The teleological framework of reasoning,I believe, 不会真正地 让我们达成 任何一致的意见。 doesn't really allow us to come to any sort of agreement. 好的，你的名字？ Alright,and what's your name? -- 帕特里克。-- 帕特里克， -- Patrick. -- Patrick. 让我来试着 回答这些 反对的理由。 Alright, let me try to address this set of objections to Aristotle. 先从 Patrick的理由开始。 Let me start with Patrick's; 那是一条 重要的反对理由。 it's an important objection. 我们争论了 行走是否是 高尔夫的本质， We had a debate about whether walking is essential to golf, 就是在 这样一个看上去微不足道的小事中， and even in so seemingly trivial,or at least contained, a case as that, 我们都不能够 达成一致的意见。 we couldn't agree. 那么我们怎么可以期待， How can we possibly hope to agree? 在一些更重要的事情上 When the stakes are higher 例如 政治共同体 的基本目的、最终目的时 and when we're debating the fundamental purposes, or ends, 达成 一致的意见？ of political community. 因此，如果我们 不能对 And so, if we can't agree in 公众生活的 目的 达成一致的意见， what the ends or the goods of our shared public life consist in, 那我们怎么能 根据 how can we base justice and rights 什么是它们的 目标、目的、美德所在， on some notion of what the end, 来判读 正义与否呢？ or the purpose,or the good consists in? 这是一个 重要的反对理由， That's an important objection. 以致 当代的政治理论 担心 So much so that much modern political theory takes that worry 人们会在这些问题出现分歧， about disagreement over the good as its starting point, 于是 得出一个结论：正义、权利和宪法 and concludes that justice and rights and constitutions 不能 依附于 任何一个 善的观念、 should not be based on any particular conception of the good 或 政治生活的目的上。 or the purposes of political life, 相反，我们应该 提供一个 but should, instead,provide a framework of rights 让人们自由选择 他们自己所认为的善 that leaves people free to choose their conceptions of the good, 选择 他们自己的 生活的目的。 their own conceptions of the purposes of life. 现在，Mary-Kate说，“如果一个人 非常适合 做某个角色， Now, Mary-Kate said, "What if a person is very well suited to having a certain role, 比如，看门人的角色。 like the role of being a janitor, 但他却想 做其他角色，想达到更高的成就， but wants something else, wants to reach higher, 想要选择 另外一种生活，那该他怎么办？” wants to choose another way of life?" 所以，这就回到了 关于自由的问题。 So, that goes back to this question about freedom. 如果我们确定 If we take our bearings as persons 某些角色 就是适合我们的天性， from roles that are said to fit our nature, 那么，这个角色是什么 至少应该由我们自己决定？ shouldn't it at least be up to us to decide what those roles are? 应该是 由我们自己决定，什么角色 是适合于我们的？ In fact, shouldn't it be up to us to define what roles are suitable to us? 这就让我们回到了 And that's going to take us back 亚里士多德 to the confrontation between Aristotle on the one hand 与 康德、罗尔斯， 这两种观点的对峙。 and Kant and Rawls on the other. 康德和罗尔斯认为，Patrick讲的 是有道理的。 Kant and Rawls think Patrick has a point. 他们说，正是因为在一个多元社会中， They say precisely because people disagree in pluralist societies 对于 美好生活的本质 这个问题，会有分歧， about the nature of the good life, 我们���不应该试图 将正义建立在 任何一种特定的看法， we shouldn't try to base justice on any particular answer to that question. 所以，他们 拒绝目的论。 So they reject teleology, 他们拒绝，将正义 与某个善的概念 联系在一起。 they reject the idea of tying justice to some conception of the good. 罗尔斯式、康德式的自由主义者们 说 What's at stake in the debate about teleology, 在讨论 目的论时，其关键之处 say Rawlsian and Kantian liberals, 如下： is this; 如果把正义的判断标准 依附于 某个特定的对善的看法， if you tie justice to a particular conception of the good, 如果你把正义看作是，一个人和他/她的角色 之间的匹配的话， if you see justice as a matter of fit between a person and his or her roles, 你没有 给自由 留下空间， you don't leave room for freedom, 而想要自由 就是要 不依赖于 and to be free is to be independent of 从我的父母 或者 我所在的社会，所留下来的 any particular roles, or traditions, or conventions 任何特定的角色、传统、习俗约定。 that may be handed down by my parents or my society. 为了在 这两大观点 之间做出选择， So, in order to decide as between these two broad traditions, 究竟是 亚里士多德是正确的，还是康德和罗尔斯? whether Aristotle is right, or whether Kant and Rawls are right, 我们需要 详细研究： 权利是否优先于善？ we need to investigate whether the right is prior to the good, 这是问题一。 question one, 我们还需要研究，成为自由人，一个自由的道德主体 and we need to investigate what it means to be a free person, 意味着什么。 a free moral agent. 自由是否要求，作为一个选择主体的我， Does freedom require that I stand for toward my roles, 就得去坚守 我自身的目的？ my ends, and my purposes as an agent of choice? 还是说，我得去 寻找发现 我真正的天性？ Or as someone trying to discover what my nature really is? 这两大问题，我们下次会继续讨论。 Two big questions and we'll take them up next time.
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What's the Right Thing to Do - Lecture 9 Affirmative Action and Purpose
关于平权运动的争论 Arguing Affirmative Action 上节课我们讨论了Rawls 描述的 Last time,we were discussing the distinction, that Rawls draws 两种不同类型主张的区别 between two different types of claims. 其一：道义应得（moral desert） Claims of moral deserton the one hand, 其二：合法期望 （legitimate expectations ） and of entitlement to legitimate expectations on the other.
Rawls 指出 认为分配正义 就是关于道义应得 的问题 Rawls argued that it's a mistake to think that distributive justice is a matter of moral desert, 就是根据人们的品行 进行奖赏，这样想是错误的。 a matter of rewarding people according to their virtue. 今天，我们将继续探讨 道义应得 Today we're going to explore that question of moral desert 以及它与分配正义的关系 and its relation to distributive justice. 它与收入丰足无关 Not in connection with incoming wealth, 而是与机会有关 but in its connection with opportunities. 与雇佣决策 和录用标准 有关 With hiring decisions and admission standards. 因此，我们来转到“平权行动” 这个案例 （平权行动，就是给少数族裔和女性提供教育、就业方面的一点特殊照顾） And so we turn to the case, of affirmative action. 你们读过Cheryl Hopwood的案例 You read about the case of Cheryl Hopwood. 她申请了 得克萨斯州立大学的法学院 She applied for admission to the University of Texas Law School. Cheryl Hopwood 通过勤工俭学读完高中 Cheryl Hopwood had worked her way through high school, 她并非来自富裕的家庭 she didn't come from an affluent family, 她让自己读完了社区学院 she put herself through community college, 以及 加州州立大学 萨克拉门托分校 and California State University at Sacramento. 她取得了3.8分的平均成绩 She achieved a 3.8 grade point average there, 后来 她移居 得克萨斯，成为那里的居民 later moved to Texas, became a resident, 参加了法学院的录取考试 took the law school admissions test, 取得了优良的成绩 did pretty well on that, 她申请了 德州大学的法学院 and she applied to the University of Texas Law School. 但被拒绝了 She was turned down. 她被拒绝的时候，正值德州大学 实行 She was turned down at a time when the University of Texas, “平权行动” 的录取政策时期 was using an affirmative action admissions policy. 这项政策着重考虑 A policy that took into account, 肤色 和 种族背景 race and ethnic background. 德州大学 表示“得克萨斯40%的人口 The University of Texas said,"40 percent of the population of Texas 由 非裔美国人 和 墨西哥裔美国人 组成” is made up of African Americans and Mexican Americans.“ 作为一所法学院，我们有必要拥有 多样性的学生群体 It's important that we, as a law school, have a diverse student body. 因此，我们将要考虑的 And so we are going to take into account, 不只有中学成绩 和 考试得分（例如SAT） not only grades and test scores, 而且还要包括 人口学的组成，如 肤色和种族 but also the demographic make up of our class including, its race and ethnic profile." Hopwood 要控诉的，正是这个结果 The result, and this is what Hopwood complained about, 这个政策的结果是 the result of that policy, 一些申请 德州大学法学院的人 is that some applicants to the University of Texas Law School, 比她学术指数（包括中学成绩和考试得分） 都低的申请人 with a lower academic index, which includes grades and test scores, 却得到了录取 than hers, were admitted. 而她却被拒绝了 And she was turned down. 她控诉道，“我被拒绝的理由 仅仅因为我是白人” She said, she argued, "I'm just beingturned down because I'm white. 如果我不是白人，如果我是少数民族 If I weren't, if I were a member of a minority group, 凭我的成绩和考分，我会被录取的” with my grades and test scoresI would had been admitted." 而且，根据在法庭中出示的 统计数据 And the statistics, the admissions statistics that came out in the trial, 就在那一年，非裔美国人 和 墨西哥裔美国人 confirmed that African American and Mexican American applicants that year, 以 和她一样的成绩和考分 获得了录取 who had, her grades and test scores,were admitted. 官司一直打到 联邦法院 It went to Federal Court. 现在，先不考虑 法律 Now, put aside the law, 让我们从 公正和道德的角度 来思考 let's consider it from the standpoint of justice and morality. 这件事情到底公不公平？ Is it fair, or it unfair? Cheryl Hopwood 是否有论据？ Does Cheryl Hopwood have a case? 她的控诉 合法吗？ A legitimate complaint? 法学院的录取政策 是否侵犯了她的权利？ Were her rights violated, by the admissions policy of the law school? 有多少人，有多少人愿意 支持法学院的做法？ How many say, how many would rule for the law school, 说 录取政策 应该要考虑肤色和人种因素，是公正的？ and say that it was just to consider race and ethnicity as a factor in admissions? 有多少人愿意支持Cheryl Hopwood？ How many would rule for Cheryl Hopwood 认为“她的权利被侵犯了”？ and say "her rights were violated?" 那么，我们现在分成了 两个势均力敌的阵营 So here we have a pretty even split. 现在 我想听听支持 Cheryl Hopwood 的意见。 Alright, now I want to hear from a defender of Cheryl Hopwood. Yes? 你根据一个 武断的因素 做出判断 You're basing something that's an arbitrary factor, 要知道，Cheryl 无法控制她是一个白人，还是 少数民族 you know, Cheryl couldn't control the fact that she was white, or not in a minority. 因此...比如 她很努力地准备考试 And therefore, you know, it's not as if..it was like a test score that she worked hard to try 想证明给你看，她是可以的。而她却出局了 and show that she could, you know, put that out there, 要知道，她无法控制自己的种族 you know, that she had no control over her race. 很好。你的名字？——Bree Good. And what're your name? Bree. 很好，Bree，留在那儿 Okay. Bree, stay right there. 现在，让我们再找一个人，来回应Bree Now let's find someone who has an answer for Bree. 你？ 教育体系存在着差异 Yes? - There are discrepancies in the educational system. 大多数时候，我知道 在纽约 And the majority of the time, I know this in New York City, 少数民族上的学校，都不像白人学校那样， the schools that minorities go to, are not as well-funded, 资金充足，供应充足。 are not as well-supplied, as white schools. 因此，少数民族和白人之间 就形成了 自然的差异 And so there is going to be a discrepancy, naturally, between minorities and between whites. 如果白人们 没上到 较好的学校 If they go to better schools. 他们在考试中的表现 就不会有那么好，因为他们不能得到更多的帮助 And they will not do as well on exams because they haven't had as much help. 因为 那个糟糕的学校体制 Because of the worst school systems. 对不起，我来打断一下，告诉我 你的名字吗？ Let me just interrupt you to, tell me your name? Aneesha，你的意思是 Aneesha.- Aneesha. Aneesha, you're pointing out 在某些情况下，少数民族的子女所上的学校 可能不能 that minority kids may have gone, in some cases, to schools 像有钱人的子女 所上的学校那样，提供同等的教育机会，是吗？ that didn't give them the same educational opportunity as kids from affluent families. 是的 - Yes. 所以，他们的测试分数 And so the testscores they got, 可能并不代表 他们真正的实力 may actually not representtheir true potential. 因为他们没有得到，在资金更充足的学校里 那样的帮助 Because they didn't receive the same kind of help that they might have received had they gone to a school with better funding. 好的。Aneesha 提出了这样一个观点 Good, alright. Aneesha has raised the point 大学应该录取那些 学术上最有可能成功的学生 that colleges still should choose for the greatest academic scholarly promise 但 在看他们的中学成绩 和 考试得分时 but in reading the test scores and grades, 还应当根据他们受教育的不平等，来考虑 这些成绩和考分 背后的不同意义 they should take into account the different meaning those tests and grades have, in the light of educational disadvantage in the background. 这就是捍卫“平权行动”的一个理由 So that's one argument in defense of affirmative action, Aneesha's argument. 矫正不平等的先天条件 Correcting for the effects of unequal preparation. 教育上的劣势 Educational disadvantage. 现在，我们再来听听其他看法 Now, there are other arguments. 为了确定 这里面是否存在着一个竞争性原则 Suppose, just to identify whether there is a competing principle here. 假设 这里有两位候选人 Suppose there are two candidates, 两人的成绩和考分 都一样 who did equally well on the tests and grades. 两人都在第一流学校里上学 Both of whom went to first rate schools. 相比其他候选人，这两人可能还会 Two candidates, among those candidates, 在一些大学或学院里 遭到不公正对待，譬如哈佛说 would it be unfair for the college or university, for Harvard, to say, 我们还是想照顾到 种族和肤色的多样性 "we still want diversity along racial and ethnic dimensions, 即使这样 可能顾及不到 教育不平等对考分的影响” even where we are not correcting for the effects on test scores of educational disadvantage." 对此 你又怎么看？Bree What about in that case, Bree? 如果 这是其中一个（录取标准），成为了一些人的优势 If it's that's one thing that puts, you know, someone over the edge, 那么，我猜那会是合理的 then it's, I guess that would be,you know, justifiable. 但如果只考虑他们的其他方面，例如天赋和出身 If everything else about the individual first, though, everything to consider about that person's you know, talents, and where they come from, and who they are 没有这些“专横的因素”的话，这两人是一样的。 without these arbitrary factors, is the same. 没有这些 你所说的“专横的因素” Without these 'arbitrary factors', you call them. 你是说，种族和肤色都是“专横的因素” But before, you were suggesting, Bree, that race and ethnicity are arbitrary factors 是申请人无法控制的。好的，我同意这一点 outside the control of the applicants.- True, I would agree with that. 你的总原则是，录取时 不应该奖励这些 人们无法控制的、专横的因素。 And your general principle is that admissions shouldn't reward arbitrary factors, over which people have no control.- Right. 好的。还有谁。谢谢你们二位 Alright. Who else, who else would like to, thank you both. 谁愿意对此发表意见？你会怎么说？ Who else would like to get into this, what do you say? 好的。首先，我暂时支持 “平权行动” Well, first of all, I'm for affirmative action temporarily, 但 这里有两个理由 but, for two reasons. 首先，你必须看到 大学的目的是什么 First of all, you have to look at the university's purpose. 它的目的是教育学生 It is to educate their students. 我认为，来自不同种族的人们，有着不同的背景 And I feel that different races, people coming from different races have different backgrounds 他们为教育做出的贡献也不同 and they contribute differently to the education. 其次，当说到 他们有平等的背景时 And second of all, when you say that they have equal backgrounds, 如果把眼光放远，你会发现不是这样的。 that's not true when you look at the broader picture, 看看奴隶制时期。而“平权行动”就像是对此的一种补偿。 and you look at slavery and this is kind of a reparation. 它是 为了缓解这段历史，特别是对非裔美国人犯下的错误， 的一种临时性的解决措施。 I think affirmative action is a temporary solution to alleviate history, and the wrongs done to African Americans in particular. 你的名字？ And what's your name? David—David，你说 消除歧视行为 David.- David. You say that affirmative action 至少在目前，它是对过去那段不正义的历史 的一种补偿 is justified at least for now as a way of compensating for past injustice. 是黑奴制和种族隔离 遗留下来的产物。 是的。 The legacy of slavery and segregation.- Right. 谁想来接着这点谈下去？ Who wants to take on that argument? 我们现在需要听听 对“平权行动” 的批评 We need now a critic of affirmative action. 好的，请 Yes, go ahead. 我认为，过去发生的事情，与今天发生的事情 毫无关系 I think that what happened in the past has no bearing on what happens today. 我认为，基于种族 来差别对待的做法 总是错误的 I think that discriminating based on race should always be wrong. 无论你歧视一个种族，还是另外一个。 Whether you're discriminating against one group or another. 仅仅因为我们的祖先做了某些事情 Just because our ancestors did something, 并不意味着 就一定要影响到我们今天发生的事情 doesn't mean that that should have any effect on what happens with us today. 好的，很好。对不起，你的名字？Kate Alright, good. I'm sorry, your name is?- Kate. Kate。好的。谁来回应Kate的观点？ Kate. Alright, who has an answer for Kate? 我只是想说 Yes.- I just wanted to comment and say that, 告诉我 你的名字 - Tell us your name. 我的名字是Mansur。由于奴隶制，由于过去的不公正 My name is Mansur. Because of slavery, because of past injustices, 导致今天 非裔美国人的贫困比例更高 today, we have a higher proportion of African Americans who are in poverty, 他们面对的机会比白人更少 who face less opportunities than white people. 因此，由于200年前的奴隶制 So because of slavery 200 years ago, 由于Jim Crow（对黑人的蔑称），由于种族隔离 and because of Jim Crow, and because of segregation, 才有我们今天 建立在种族基础上的不公正 today we have injustice based on race. Kate？——我认为 差异是显然存在的 Kate?- I think that there are differences obviously, 但不能通过 对结果的人工修正，来弥补这些差异 but the way to fix those differences is not by some artificial fixing of the result. 你得解决这个问题 You need to fix the problem. 所以，我们解决教育的差别问题 So we need to address differences in education, 通过像 Head Start这样的项目，来解决在儿童早期的教育差异 and differences in upbringing with programs like Head Start, 给那些低收入的学校 提供更多资助 and giving more funding to lower income schools 而不是仅仅去 尝试修补那个结果 rather than just trying to fix the result, 那样做的话，只是看上去平等，但实际上并非如此。 so it makes it look like it's equal when it's really it isn't. 是的 Yes. 关于 建立在种族基础上的“平权行动” Well, with regard to affirmative action based on race, 我只是想说，在这个国家里，白人有自己的“平权行动” I just want to say that white people have had their own affirmative action 已经超过400年历史了 in this country for more than 400 years. 它被叫做 “任人唯亲”和 “补偿” It's called 'nepotism' and 'quid pro quo'. 因此，纠正 400年来对黑人的不公正和歧视，并无不妥。 So there's nothing wrong with correcting the injustice and discrimination that's been done to black people for 400 years. 很好，告诉我你的名字？——Hannah Good. Tell us your name.- Hannah. Hannah。好的。谁来回应Hannah？ Hannah. Alright who has an answer for Hannah? 或者补充她的观点 And just to add to Hannah's point, 因为现在我们需要某个人回答 because we need now someone to respond, Hannah，你应该要提一下“遗留录取” 的政策 (你的子女申请你的母校，会有特别的优待) Hannah, you could have also mentioned legacy admissions. 我正要说这一点 Exactly. I was going to say, 如果你不同意 “平权行动” if you disagree with affirmative action, 你应该也不会同意“遗留录取” 的政策 you should disagree with legacy admission 因为很显然，环顾这里， because it's obvious from looking around here that 哈佛的历史上，白人“遗留生” 要远多于 黑人“遗留生” there are more white legacies than black legacies in the history of Harvard University. 解释一下 “遗留录取” 的政策 And explain what legacy admissions are. 好的。“遗留录取” 是让你的子女申请你的母校时，会有特别的优待 Well, legacy admissions is giving an advantage to someone who has an arbitrary privilege of their parent having attended the university to which they're applying. 好的。给Hannah的一个回应 Alright, so a reply for Hannah. 是的，二楼的，请 Yes, in the balcony, go ahead. 首先，如果“平权行动” 是为了 补救过去的不公正 First of all, if affirmative action is making up for past injustice, 那么，你怎样解释 在过去的美国历史上，没有遭到歧视的少数族裔 how do you explain minorities that were not historically discriminated against in the United States 也从中得到好处呢？ who get these advantages? 此外，“平权行动” 让种族的隔阂 长久存在 In addition, you could argue that affirmative action perpetuates divisions between the races 而没有实现 让种族 成为我们的社会里无关紧要因素 这一最高目标 rather than achieve the ultimate goal of race being an irrelevant factor in our society. 告诉我 你的名字 And what, tell us your name. Danielle——Hannah Danielle.- Hannah. 我不同意这一点。因为我认为 在这样一个机构里促进多样性 I disagree with that because I think that by promoting diversity in an institution like this, 你就能进一步地步教育所有学生，尤其是那些 过去都生活在白人圈子里的学生。 you further educate all of the students, especially the white students who grew up in predominately white areas. 让人们接触不同背景的人，这当然是教育的一种形式。 It's certainly a form of education to be exposed to people from different backgrounds. 当你让白人都生活在自己的白人圈子里，你便让他们 处于一种内在的劣势之中。 And you put white students at an inherent disadvantage when you surround them only with their own kind. 为什一定要把种族 与 多样性等同起来？ Why should race necessarily be equated with diversity? 我们有许多其他的形式，我们为什么就假定了 种族让大家不同？ There are so many other forms, why should we assume that race makes people different? 而且，这使得种族隔阂的思想 长存于我们的大学和社会里。 Hannah? Again, that's perpetuating the idea of racial division within our universities and our society.- Hannah? 对于非裔美国人受到的这种特别优待 With regard to African American people being given a special advantage, 显然，他们给大家带来了一些 独特的东西 it's obvious that they bring something special to the table, 因为 就像来自一种不同宗教信仰或社会经济背景人一样， 他们带来了一种独特的视角 because they have a unique perspective just as someone from a different religion or socio-economic background would, as well. 如你所言，多样性的形式有很多。 As you say, there are many different types of diversity. 所以，没有理由把人种的多样性 从这些标准中抹煞掉 There's no reason that racial diversity should be eliminated from that criteria. 是的，继续 Yes, go ahead. 在这个国家，种族歧视是非法的 Racial discrimination is illegal in this country, 我相信 那些非裔美国人领袖本人 and I believe that it was African American leaders themselves, 当马丁·路德·金说，他不想人们以皮肤的颜色来衡量他 when Martin Luther King said he wanted to be judged not on the color of skin, 而是以他的个性、品德和成就。 but by the content of his character, his merit, his achievements. 我只是认为，仅仅通过某人的种族来分辨别人 是一种内在的不公正 And I just think that, to decide solely based on someone's race is just inherently unfair. 我的意思是说，如果你想纠正（种族）的不利背景 I mean, if you want to correct based on disadvantaged backgrounds, 那没问题，但白人也有不利 that's fine, but there are also disadvantaged white people as well. 不该介意你是白人还是黑人。 告诉我你的名字 It shouldn't matter if you're white or black.- Tell us your name. Ted，好的——想一下 Hopwood Ted. - Ted, - Yes.- Think of Hopwood. 以肤色、民族和宗教信仰 来判定一个人，是不公平的，是吗？ It's unfair to count race or, I assume you would also say, ethnicity or religion? 是的。你认为 她有权利要求（录取时）只看成绩和考分吗？ Yes. - Do you think she has a right to be considered according to her grades and test scores alone? 不，还得看其他 No. There is more to it than that. 大学需要促进多样性 Universities need to promote diversity. 那么，你同意促进多样性 这一目的？ So you agree with the goal of promoting diversity? 促进多样化还有其他的方式。 不是只有 基于那些人们无法的控制因素，来消除歧视 There's ways to promote diversity besides discriminating against people solely based on a factor they cannot control. 所以，这个（录取）事件的错误在于 Alright, so what makes it wrong, 她无法控制自己的种族 is that she can't control her race. 她无法改变自己是一个白人的事实 She can't control the fact that she's white. 这就是她遭遇不公对待的核心所在 That's the heart of the unfairness to her. Bree 提出了类似的观点 Bree made a similar point. 建立在人们 无法控制因素上的 录取，是最根本的不公正。 That basing admissions on factors that people can't control, is fundamentally unfair. 你怎么说？ What do you say? 有许多事情你无法控制 There's a lot of things you can't control, 如果你不赞成 录取标准应该只考虑你的成就 and if you don't for it based on merit, 比如 仅仅基于你的测试得分 like just based on your test scores, 你能取得的许多成就 都与你成长的家庭背景有关 a lot of what you can achieve has to do with family background, that you were raised in. 如果你的父母都是有学问的人 If both of your parents were scholarly, 你就有更多的机会，让自己也成为有学问的人，成绩也会更好。 then you have more of chance of actually of being more scholarly yourself and getting those grades. 但你不能控制自己出生在什么家庭 And you can't control what kind of family you were born into. 很好，这是个非常好的回答。你的名字？ Alright good, that's a great rejoinder, what's your name? Da.- Da. Da.- Da. Ted，你是否是靠 来自你所出生的家庭 的优势呢？ Ted, are you against advantages that come from the family you were born into? 关于“遗留录取” 你想说什么？ What about legacy admissions? 我相信，就 “遗留录取” 而言 I do believe that in terms of a legacy admission 你不该受到 特别的优待 you shouldn't have a special preference, 我的意思是，你可以争论有关“遗留录取” 的另一个方面 I mean there is a legacy admission you could argue is another part, 你可能说 让一小部分的人 一家几代都上同一所学校，像哈佛 versus you could say it's important to have a small percentage of people that have a several generation family attendance at a place like Harvard. 然而，像种族这类因素 不该成为那样的优势 However that should not bean advantage factor like race, 它只是促进多样化的另外一个侧面 it should just be another part promoting diversity. 应该把它包含在内吗？ Should it count at all? 我想.... 校友资格，该把它也包含在内吗，Ted？ I think that,- -Alumni status, should it count at all, Ted? 是的，应该在内 Yes. It should count. 好的，我想 从这些辩论之中 走回来 Alright, I want to step back for a moment from these arguments. 谢谢你们所有人的观点。 Thank you all forthese contributions. 我们现在回到你这里来 We're going to come back to you. 如果你听得够认真，我想你会注意到 If you've listened carefully I think you will have noticed 在这场讨论中出现了三种不同的观点 three different arguments emerge from this discussion. 关于支持 把种族和肤色作为录取的 其中一个考虑因素 In defense of considering race and ethnicity as a factor in admissions. 其中一个观点，跟 纠正教育不公平所带来的影响 有关 One argument has to do with correcting for the effects, for the effects of educational disadvantage. 那就是Aneesha的观点 That was Aneesha's argument. 我们或许可以 将其称之为 “弥补论” This is what we might call the corrective argument. 弥补 人们的教育背景的差异，人们所上的学校的差异， Correcting for differences in educational background, the kind of school people went to, 以及 他们获得（教育）机会的差异，等等。 the opportunities they had and so on. 这是其中的一个观点 That's one argument. 值得注意的是，这种观点坚持的一个原则是 What's worth noticing though, is that argument is consistent in principle with the idea 录取时应该只考虑 学业前景和学术潜力。 that only academic promise and scholarly potential should count in admissions. 我们只需要依据 单一的中学成绩和测试得分 We just need to go beyond test scores and grades alone, 来对其学业前景和学术潜力 做出真实的估计。 to get a true estimate of academic promise and scholarly ability. 这是第一个论点 That's the first argument. 然后，我们听到的第二个观点是 Then we heard a second argument that said “平权行动” 是 合理的。 affirmative action is justified even 哪怕 对于某一个申请人来说，并没有弥补他 教育不公平的必要 where there may not be the need to correct for educational disadvantage in a particular applicant's case. 这样做是合理的，因为它是对过去的错误、不正义的历史 的一种补偿。 It's justified as a way of compensating for past wrongs, for historic injustices. 因此，这是一个补偿的观点 So that's a compensatory argument. 补偿过去的错误 Compensating for past wrongs. 接下来，我们听到了来自Hannah和其他人，关于“平权行动”的 第三个不同的观点， Then we heard, a third, a different argument, for affirmative action, from Hannah and others, 以多样性为名的争论 that argued in the name of diversity. 这种多样性的观点，不同于补偿观。 Now, the diversity argument is different from the compensatory argument, 因为它的诉求在于 大学或学院的社会目标 或者说社会使命。 because it makes a certain appeal to the social purpose or the social mission of the college or university. 实际上，多样化观点有两个方面 There are really two aspects to the diversity argument. 一方面认为，多样化的学生群体，能给每个人得到更好的教育体验 One says it's important to have a diverse student body for the sake of the educational experience for everyone. Hannah 持这个观点 Hannah made that point. 而其他人则说到了 更为广泛的社会 And the other talks about the wider society. 这就是德州大学Hopwood案中的观点 This was the argument made by the University of Texas in the Hopwood case. 我们必须训练律师、法官、领导人、公务员 We need to train lawyers and judges and leaders, 这些人将会给 得克萨斯州，乃至整个国家 做出贡献。 who will contribute to the strength, the civic strength of the state of Texas, and the country as a whole. 因此，对于多样化观来说，有两个不同的方面 So there are two different aspects to the diversity argument. 但两者都是以 大学的社会目标、社会使命、大众利益 为名 But both are arguments in the name of the social purpose, or the social mission or the common good, served by the institution. 好的，这些观点有什么说服力？ Well, what about the force of these arguments? 我们也听到了 反对这些观点的声音 We've also heard objections to these arguments. 对于补偿观，最有力的反对是 The most powerful objection to the compensatory argument is, 对于Cheryl Hopwood来说 is it fair to ask Cheryl Hopwood today, 为了补偿 过去公认做出的、极其不正义的行为 to make the sacrifice, to pay the compensation for an injustice that was admittedly committed and egregious, in the past, 这段 她并没有牵涉进去的历史，而做出牺牲， but in which she was not implicated. 这难道公正吗？ Is that fair? 因此，这是对 补偿观的 一个重要反驳 So that's an important objection to the compensatory argument. 而且为了应对这个反驳 And in order to meet that objection, 我们得研究，我们是否要为过去 肩负起整个群体的权利或责任。 we would have to investigate whether there is such a thing as group rights or collective responsibility that reaches over time. 明确了争论的所在 So having identified that issue, 让我们把它放在一边，先回到 多样化的观点 let's set it aside to turn to the diversity argument. 多样化的观点不必担心 为历史错误而背上的集体责任 的这个问题 The diversity argument doesn't have to worry about that question. About collective responsibility for past wrongs. 因为它认为，正如 Hannah和其他人提出的那样 Because it says, for reasons Hannah and others pointed out that 种族、民族多样化的学生群体，可以服务和提高 大众的利益。 the common good is served, is advanced if there is a racially and ethnically diverse student body. 每个人都会受益 Everyone benefits. 这个观点 实际上 跟哈佛当年提出的观点一样 This indeed was the argument that Harvard made 当时，这一观点被书写在1978年联邦法院的“法庭之友辩护状”中 when it filed a friend of the court brief to the Supreme Court in the 1978 case, 这是一桩平权运动案例，也叫“巴克案” the affirmative action case, the Bakke case. 哈佛在辩护状中的理由 In the Harvard brief, the Harvard rationale, 曾被Powell大法官引用 was cited by Justice Powell, Powell大法官是 支持平权运动的 关键选票 who was the swing vote in the case upholding affirmative action, 他引用了多元化观点 来作为他的理由，而他也认为 这种观点是完全可以接受的。 he cited that as providing the rationale that he thought was constitutionally acceptable. 哈佛在它的辩护状中，写道 Harvard's argument in its brief, was this: “我们关心多样性。哈佛大学从来不只把 学术优秀 作为录取学生的唯一标准” "We care about diversity. Scholarly excellence alone, has never been the criterion of admission, the sole criterion of admission to Harvard College. “15年前，多样化意味着 学生来自加州、纽约、马萨诸赛。 Fifteen years ago diversity meant students from California and New York, and Massachusetts. 城市的居民 和 农村的男孩 City dwellers, and farm boys. 小提琴手、画家和足球运动员 Violinists, painters and football players. 生物学家、历史学家和古典主义者 Biologists, historians and classicists. 哈佛认为，现在唯一的差别 只在于 The only difference now, Harvard argued, is that 我们在考虑多元化的这个长长的清单中， 加入了种族和民族这一项 而已。 we're adding racial and ethnic status to this long list of diversity considerations. 哈佛写道，"当我们在审阅 大量在课堂上表现出色的 申请人时 When reviewing the large number of candidates able to do well in our classes, 种族也许可以作为一种额外因素来考虑， Harvard wrote, "Race may count as a plus, 就像你会考虑 你是来自衣阿华州，或你是一名优秀的中后卫 或钢琴家 一样。 just as coming from Iowa may count or being a good middleline backer or pianist. 一个来自爱达荷州的农村男孩，可能为哈佛大学带来 A farm boy from Idaho can bring something to Harvard College 一个波士顿人 无法提供的东西 that a Bostonian cannot offer. 同样，黑人学生也可以带来 白人无法带来的东西 Similarly, a black student can usually bring something a white student cannot offer. 每个学生所受教育的质量 The quality of the educational experience of all students 部分有赖于他们 生来就不同的背景“ depends in part on these differences in the background and outlook that students bring with them." 这就是哈佛的观点 That was Harvard's argument. 现在，大家觉得 多样化的观点 怎么样？ Now what about the diversity argument? 它有说服力吗？ Is it persuasive? 如果它具有说服力，它就必须面对一个非常有力的反驳 If it's to be persuasive, it has to meet one very powerful objection. 那就是我们在这里听到的声音 That we've heard voiced here. 来自Ted 和Bree By Ted, by Bree. 除非你是功利主义者，否则你应当相信 个人的权利不能被侵犯 Unless you're a utilitarian, you believe that individual rights can't be violated. 因此，问题在于 And so the question is, 此案中 个人权利遭到侵犯了吗？ is there an individual right that is violated? Cheryl Hopwood的权利受到侵犯了吗？ Is Cheryl Hopwood's right violated? 可以这么说, 如果她被拒绝录取了，她是被利用来 If she is used, so to speak,denied admission, 服务于 大众利益和社会使命 for the sake of the common good and the social mission 这些由德州大学 法学院自己定下的理念 that the University of Texas Law School has defined for itself, 她有这样的权利吗？ does she have a right? 难道我们不值得，根据 我们的优异，我们的成就 Don't we deserve to be considered according to our excellences,our achievements, 我们的造诣，和我们的努力工作，来评价我们吗？ our accomplishments, our hard work? 我们的这项权利，难道不是岌岌可危了吗？ Isn't that the right at stake? 现在，我们也听到了，对这种观点的一个回答 Now we've already heard an answer to that argument. 不，她没有这项权利。 No, she doesn't have the right. 没有人是应该得到录取的 Nobody deserves to be admitted. 这让我们重新回到了 道义应得与合法期望的问题 Notice how this gets us back to the issue of desert versus entitlement. 它们主张，Hopwood在此处没有个人权利 They're arguing there is no individual right that Hopwood has. 不能根据 在她看来是重要的某个标准，来决定说 她是应该得到录取的。 She doesn't deserve to be admitted according to any particular set of criteria that she believes to be important. 包括 只参考 她取得成绩和努力 的这项标准 Including criteria that have only to do with her efforts and achievements. 为什么不能这样呢？ Why not? 我认为是，这里隐含地 I think implicit, in this argument, 有些类似Rawls 拒绝 把道义应得，作为分配正义的基础。 is something like Rawls' rejection of moralde sert as the basis of distributive justice. 是的，一旦哈佛确定了自己的使命 Yes, once Harvarddefines its mission 根据这一使命，来制定它的录取政策 and designs its admission policy in the light of its mission, 适合这些标准，符���资格的人们 people are entitled, who fit those criteria, 他们就有权利被录取 they are entitled to be admitted. 但根据这个观点 But according to this argument, 首先， 一开始 哈佛大学为自己定下的使命 no one deserves that Harvard college define its mission 以及为自己设定的录取标准 and design its admission criteria in the first place, 没有人值得要求哈佛，制定的录取标准 刚好是他们的优势。 in a way that prizes the qualities they happen to have in abundance. 无论这些优势是 测试得分或中学成绩 Whether those qualities are test scores or grades 或是 弹钢琴的能力 or the ability to play the piano, 或是 能做一个好的中卫 or to be a good middle linebacker, 或是 来自衣阿华州 or to come from Iowa, 或是 来自某个特定的少数族群 or to come from a certain minority group. 你怎样看待关于 “平权运动”的这场争论 So you see how this debate about affirmative action, 特别是多样化的说法 especially the diversity argument, 这就回到了 权利的问题 takes us back to the question of rights, 接下来，我们就进一步回溯到， which in turn takes us back tothe question of 道义应得 是否是分配正义的基础 这个问题上来 whether moral desert is or is not the basisfor distributive justice. 请在周末思考这个问题，我们下次将继续讨论。 Think about that over the weekend and we'll continue this discussion next time. “猫被创造出来就是为了吃老鼠，老鼠被创造出来就是给猫吃。 而整个自然界被创造出来是为了证明造物主的智慧。” -------恩格斯 对目的论的批评 上节课，在结束时 When we ended last time, 我们曾思考了，关于“平权运动” 的正反两方的理由 we were considering arguments for and against affirmative action. 在录取中 将种族作为因素之一 来考虑 Counting race as a factor in admissions. 并且，在讨论的过程中 And, in the course of the discussion, 出现了三种观点 three arguments emerged, 对于“平权运动”的三种观点 three arguments for affirmative action. 其中一种观点认为，种族和民族背景 应当被考虑在内 One of them was the idea that race and ethnic background should count 这是为了修正 测试得分和中学成绩（背后所代表）的真正含义 as a way of correcting for the true meaning of test scores and grades. 这样才更准确的衡量出，那些分数和数字所代表的 学术潜力。 Getting a more accurate measure of the academic potential, those scores, those numbers represent. 第二种，是被我们称作 “补偿论”的观点 Second, was what we called"the compensatory argument". 这种观点认为，这是补偿 过去的错误，和过去的非正义行为 The idea of righting past wrongs, past injustice. 第三种，则是多元化观点 And the third was the diversity argument. 在1990年代，当Cheryl Hopwood 在联邦法院上， And when Cheryl Hopwood in the 1990s challenged 对德州大学法学院的“消除歧视”的录取政策，提出质疑时， the University of Texas Law School's affirmative action program, in the federal courts, 德州大学也提出了 另外一个版本的多元化理由。 the University of Texas made another version of the diversity argument. 他们认为，德州大学法学院的 更远大的社会目标和社会使命 Saying that the broader social purpose, the social mission of the University of Texas Law School, 是培养出 法律界和政界的领导者、 is to produce leaders, in the legal community, in the political community, 法官、律师、和议员 among judges, lawyers, legislators, 因此，培养那些 能反映出 德州的背景、经历、 种族和民族组成 的领导人， and therefore it's important that we produce leaders, who reflect the background,and the experience, 是十分重要的。 and the ethnic and the racial composition of the state of Texas. 服务于更加广泛的社会使命，是十分重要的 It's important for serving our wider social mission. 这就是 德州大学法学院的观点 That was the University of Texas Law School's argument. 接着，我们思考了 对多元化理由的反驳意见 And then we considered an objection to the diversity argument 多元化的观点，其实就是以社会使命、大众利益为名 而提出的。 which after all is an argument in the name of the social mission, the common good. 我们知道Rawls 没有简单地认为 We saw that Rawls does not simply believe 公众利益或大众福利 应当优先 that arguments of the common good or the general welfare should prevail 哪怕在促进公众利益的过程中，要侵犯个人的权利。 if individual rights must be violated inthe course of promoting the common good. 你们还记得，上节课结束时，我们 对多样化理由的质问 You remember that was the question, the challenge, to the diversity rationale that we were considering when we finished last time. 而且我们开始讨论 “它可能威胁到 我们的什么权利？” And we began to discuss the question "Well, what right might be at stake"? 也许这项权利是要求 决定我们是否被录取的因素，必须是我们所能控制的 Maybe the right to be considered according to factors within one's control. 或许，这就是Cheryl Hopwood 隐含表达的观点。 Maybe this is the argument that Cheryl Hopwood implicitly was making. 她无法改变 自己是白人 这个现实 She can't help the fact that she is white. 为什么 她是否能进法学院 的可能性 Why should her chance at getting into law school 取决于 一种她无法控制的因素呢？ depend on a factor she can't control? 接着， Hannah在上此 进一步提出 And then Hannah who is advancing an argument last time 认为哈佛有权利 以任何方式确定自己的使命 said Harvard has the rightto define its mission any way it wants to, 因为 它是一所私立机构 it's a private institution. 而且，唯有 哈佛明确自己的使命 之后 And it's only once Harvard defines its mission 我们才知道 （录取标准里）考察哪些品质 that we can identify the qualities that count. 因此，没有侵犯任何权利。 So no rights are being violated. 现在，怎么看这个观点？ Now, what about that argument? 我想听听 对它的反对意见 What I would like to do is to hear objections to that reply. 然后，看看其他人 能否作出回答 And then, see whether others have an answer. 是的。告诉我们你的名字 Yes?And tell us your name. Da. 好的。上次你发过言 Da.- Da, right you spoke up last time. 你怎么回应这个观点 How do you answer that argument? 好的，我认为 这里有两点 Well, I think there was two things in there. 其一，私立机构 可以根据自己的需要 来确定自己的使命。 One of them was that a private institution could define its mission however it wants. 但这并不意味.... 不管这个使命是什么，都是正确的 But that doesn't make however it defines it,right, 譬如，我可以把 募集世界上所有的钱 作为我的个人使命。 like I could define my personal mission as I want to collect all the money in the world. 但这可以称之为一个 好的使命吗？ But does that make it even a good mission? 因此，你不能说 因为这所大学是一家私立机构 So you can't like, you can't say that just because a college is a private institution 它就可以任意地确定（它的使命） it can just define it as whatever it wants, 你还是得思考，它所确定的方式 是否恰当 you still have to thing about, what are the way it's defining it, it's right. 而且在“平权运动”这个案子里，许多人提到 And in the case of affirmative action, a lot of people have said that 这里面 牵涉了许多其他因素， since there's a lot of other factors involved, 为什么再多加 人种 这个因素就不可以呢呢？ why not race? 比如，如果我们已经知道..... Like if we already know that,- 我想先重申一下，你的第一个观点， Da. ，好吗？——好的 Let's.. I want to stick with your first point, Da.- Okay. Da的反对意见是这样的 Here's Da's objection. 一所大学是否可以 以自己喜欢的任意方式 来确定自己的使命， Can a college or university define its social purpose any way it wants to 并据此来 制订录取标准？ and define admissions criteria accordingly? 如果 这件事不是发生在今天的 德州大学法学院， What about the University of Texas Law School not today, 而是1950年代？ but in the 1950s? 这里有另外一件 联邦法院判例 Then, there was another Supreme Court case, 针对德州大学法学院的录取政策 against the admissions policy of the University of Texas Law School 因为 它采取种族隔离 because it was segregated. 它只录取白人 It only admitted whites. 而1950年代，这起案件庭审时 And when the case went to court back in the '50s, 德州大学法学院 也援用了自己的使命 the University of Texas Law School also invoked its mission. “作为一所法律学校，我们的使命是 "Our mission as a law school, 是为 德州的律师界 和 律师事务所 培养律师 is to educate lawyers for the Texas bar, the Texas law firms. 而在德州，没有哪家事务所，会雇佣非裔美国人 And no Texas law firm hires African Americans. 因此，为了履行我们的使命 So to fulfill our mission, 我们只录取白人” we only admit whites." 或者，来看一下 1930年代的哈佛 Or consider Harvard, in the 1930s 当时它有 反犹太配额 when it had anti-Jewish quotas. 1930年代的哈佛校长 Lowell 表示 President Lowell, the president of Harvard in the 1930s said, 他本人对犹太人并无偏见 that he had nothing personally against Jews, 但他援引了哈佛的使命，哈佛的社会目标，他说 but he invoked the mission, the social purpose of Harvard he said, “不仅仅为了 训练知识分子 "which is not only to train intellectuals, “哈佛的部分使命在于，训练出华尔街的股票经纪、总统和参议员， part of the mission at Harvard," he said, "is to train stockbrokers for Wall Street, presidents and senators 而犹太人很少从事这些职业” and there are very few Jews who go into those professions." 现在，我们的质疑在于 Now, here's the challenge. 以下两者 是否有原则上的区别： Is there a principle distinction 当代的大学或学院所援引的社会使命---实现多样化， between the invocation of the social purpose of the college or university today, in the diversity rationale 与1950年代的德州大学，或是1930年代的哈佛大学 所援引的社会使命？ and the invocation of the social purpose or mission of the university by Texas in the 1950s or Harvard in the 1930s? 这里 有没有原则上的区别？ Is there a difference in principle? 你是怎么回应？ What's the reply? Hannah？ 我想，原则上的区别在于 Hannah?- Well, I think that the principle different here is 包容与排斥 basically the distinction between inclusion versus exclusion. 我认为，如果一所大学说 I think that it's morally wrong of the university to say “我们把你排除在外，是基于你的宗教或人种” 这在道德上是错误的。 "We're going to exclude you on the basis of your religion or your race." 这种拒绝录取是 建立在专横的因素基础上的 That's denial on the basis of arbitrary factors. 今天，哈佛提议多样化 What Harvard is trying to do today with its diversity initiatives, 是为了包容过去 曾被排斥的群体 is to include groups that were excluded in the past. 好的，停一下。让我们看看是否有人愿意回应 Good, let's see if, stay there, let's see if someone would like to reply. 继续——实际上这是对Hannah的支持 Go ahead. - Actually this is kind of in support of Hannah, 而不是反驳---那好吧 rather than a reply but,- That's alright. 我刚才想说，另外一个原则上的区别 I was going to say another principle difference 历史上种族隔离，其动机是恶意的 can be based on malice being the motivation for the historical segregation act, 因为当时他们说，我们不要让 黑人或犹太人 进来 so it's saying that we're not going to let blacks or Jews in 因为他们 作为个人或组织都很糟 because they're worse as people or as a group. 好的。所以，（我们的案件里）不存在恶意的因素 Good, so the element of malice isn't present. 你的名字？——Stevie. And what's your name?- Stevie. Stevie认为，历史上的种族主义隔离政策， Stevie says that in the historic segregationas racist, 反犹限额或是禁令 anti-Semitic quotas or prohibitions. 这些做法的背后藏着 某种恶意、某种恶意的判断 There was built into them, a certain kind of malice, a certain kind of judgment 认为 非裔美国人或是犹太人的价值 低于其他人 that African Americans or Jews were somehow less worthy than everybody else. 而如今的“平权运动” 措施 Whereas present dayaffirmative action programs 并没有 牵扯或暗示 任何这类判断 don't involve or imply any such judgment. 这就相当于说，这个政策 What it amounts to saying is, so long as the policy, 只是利用人们的价值，去实现这所机构的社会目标， just uses people in a way as valuable to the social purpose of the institution, 只要它不是 在恶意地判断申请者，认为他们本质上更没价值。 it's okay provided it doesn't judge them, maliciously, as Stevie might add, as intrinsically less worthy. 我想 提一个问题 I'd like to raise a question. 这不就是容许， Doesn't that concede that 当我们为了竞争学校的一个职位或名额时， all of us when we compete for positions or for seats in colleges and universities （学校）可以利用我们，而非判断我们， in a way are being used, not judged, but used, 而这种利用我们的方式，与道义应得无关。 in a way that has nothing to do with moral desert. 记得我们 对"平权行动”的整个讨论， Remember we got into this whole discussion of affirmative action 当时我们试图搞清楚 when we were trying to figure out 分配正义 与道义应得 是否有关 whether distributive justice shouldbe tied to moral desert or not. 我们一开始提出了 Rawls的问题，以及他否认和 And we were launched on that question by Rawls and his denial, his rejection of the idea that 反对 把分配正义 基于 个人所处的阶级、收入或财富地位 distributive justice whether its positions or places in the class or income and wealth 这是关于 道义应得的问题。 It's a matter of moral desert. 假定 那就是哈佛录取政策 的道义基础 Suppose that were the moral basis of Harvard's admissions policy, 他们在给 被拒者或录取者 写信是会怎么写？ what letters would they have to write to people they rejected or accepted for that matter? 他们会不会这样写： Wouldn't they have to write something like this: “亲爱的不成功的申请者 "Dear unsuccessful applicant, 我们很遗憾的通知你，你的入学申请 we regret to inform you that your application for admission 被拒绝了 has been rejected. 这不是你的错，因为 当你来到这个社会上时， It's not your fault that when you came along society 刚好不需要 你具备的那些品质. happened not to need the qualities you had to offer. 那些取代你、拿到录取的人，不是他们本身 配拿到这个名额， Those admitted instead of you are not themselves deserving of a place 也不是因为 他们具备了我们所欣赏的品质。 nor worthy of a praise for the factors that led their admission. 我们只是利用你和他们，作为实现 更远大的社会目标的 一种手段 We are in any case only using them and you as instruments of a wider social purpose. 491 祝你下次好运” Better luck next time." 如果你被录取后，又会收到一封什么信呢？ What was the letter you actually got when you were admitted? 这封信可能会这样写道 Perhaps it should have read something like this: “亲爱的成功申请人 "Dear successful applicant, 我们很荣幸通知您，我们接受了您的申请。 we are pleased to inform you that yourapplication for admission has been accepted. 你真幸运 It turns out, lucky for you, 你拥有 现在这个社会 所需要的品质 that you have the traits that society needs at the moment, 因此，我们打算 利用你的资本，来造福社会。 so we propose to exploit your assets for society's advantage. 祝贺你 You are to be congratulated. 你能拿到录取，不是归功于 你拥有的某些品质， Not in the sense that you deserve credit for having the qualities that led to your admission, 这只不过像 六合彩赢家那样，值得让人祝贺而已。 but only in a sense that the winner of a lottery is to be congratulated. 如果你选择 接受我们的录取 And if you choose to accept our offer, 你最终将有资格，被（我们）以这种方式来利用， 并得到其中附带的好处。 you will ultimately be entitled to the benefits that attach to being used in this way. 期望在秋季 见到你” We look forward to seeing you in the fall." 现在，它有点奇怪 Now, there is something a little odd, 道德上的奇怪 morally odd, 如果这些信，真的反映出 if it's true that those letters do reflect 政策背后的 这种理论和哲学理念 the theory,the philosophy underlying the policy. 这就是他们提出的问题 So here's the question they pose. 这个问题 把我们带到一个 政治哲学的大问题上来： And it's a question that takes us back to a big issue in political philosophy. 是否可能，或是否值得 Is it possible,and is it desirable, 把分配正义的问题，从道义应得问题和美德问题中， 脱离出来？ to detach questions of distributive justice from questions of moral desert and questions of virtue? 在许多方面 In many ways, 这是现代政治哲学，与古老的政治思想 的区分点 this is an issue that separates modern political philosophy from ancient political thought. 我们是否可以把道义应得 放在一边---- 这个问题的关键之处是什么？ What's at stake in the question of whether we can put desert, moral desert aside? 在我们阅读Rawls的著作时 It seemed when we were reading Rawls, 他把分配正义 从道义应得中脱离出来，其动机和理由 that the incentive, the reason he had, for detaching distributive justice from moral desert 是为了实现 平等。 was an egalitarian one. 如果我们把 道德应得 放在一边 That if we set desert to one side, 就会有更多 实现平等的机会 there's greater scope for the exercise of egalitarian considerations. “无知的面纱” The veil of ignorance. 那两个原则，那个“差别原则” （第8集提到） The two principles, the difference principle, 帮助最不富裕的人，重新分配，以及其他。 helping the least well off, redistribution and all that. 不过，有趣之处在于，如果你回想 But what's interesting, is if you look, 我们讨论过的一系列思想家 at a range of thinkers we've been considering, 他们似乎都想把 分配正义从道德应得中 脱离出来 there does seem to be a reason they want to detach justice from desert 这样就可以避过 对平等问题的所有顾虑。 that goes well beyond any concern for equality. 我们已经讨论过的，自由主义 权利取向的理论家们 Libertarian rights oriented theorists, the kind we've been studying, 以及 包括Rawls在内的 权利平等取向的理论家们， as well as egalitarian rights oriented theorists, including Rawls, 在这一点上，也包括康德 and for that matter, also including Kant, 他们都同意这一点。 尽管他们在分配正义 all agree, despite their disagreements over distributive justice, 福利国家，以及其他方面 见解不一、 and the welfare state and all of that, 但他们都认为，分配正义 并不是关于 奖赏美德的问题 they all agree that justice is not a matter of rewarding or honoring virtue 或是 道义应得 or moral desert. 他们为什么都会这样认为？ Now why do they all think that? 这并非仅仅出于 平等主义理由 It can't just be for egalitarian reasons 他们并不都是平等主义者 not all of them are egalitarians. 这就把我们引向一个，我们一直想厘清的哲学大问题 This gets us to the big philosophical question we have to try to sort out. 不知何故，他们都认为，如果把正义与 道义应得或美德 连在一起 Somehow they think tying justice to moral merit or virtue 就会让我们 远离自由 is going to lead away from freedom, 远离 对作为自由存在的个体 的尊重 from respect for persons as free beings. 好的，为了弄明白，他们这样看重的是什么 Well, in order to see what they consider to be at stake, 并且为了评估 他们所共同的假设 and in order to assess their shared assumption, 我们必须求助于 一位思想家，一位哲学家 we need to turn to a thinker, to a philosopher, 他不同意 以上众人的见解 who disagrees with them. 他明确的 将正义与 荣誉、美德、功德 Who explicitly ties justice to honor, honoring virtue, 和道义应得 联系在一起 and merit and moral desert. 这位思想家是 亚里士多德 And that thinker is Aristotle. 在很多方面，亚里士多德 关于正义的思想 Now, in many ways Aristotle's idea of justice 都看起来很有 说服力 is intuitively very powerful. 但在某些方面，它也很奇怪 In some ways it's strange. 我要把这两方面--貌似有理而又奇怪-- 都作介绍 I want to bring out both its power, its plausibility and its strangeness, 这样我们就可以明白，整个关于正义的辩论中，什么是关键的 so that we can see what's at stake in this whole debate about justice 以及 它是否与 道义应得和美德 有关 and whether it's tied to desert and virtue. 那么，亚里士多德对于 正义问题的回答是什么呢？ So, what is Aristotle's answer to the question about justice? 对亚里士多德来说，正义是给予人们应得的东西 For Aristotle, justice is a matter of giving people what they deserve, 是给予人们 本来属于他们的东西 giving people their due. 正义 就是帮助人们，根据他们的美德，找到合适的社会角色 的问题 It's a matter of figuring out the proper fit between persons, with their virtues, and their appropriate social roles. 这样一幅正义的图景 看起来会是怎样的 Well, what does this picture of justice look like, 它与 自由主义和平等主义取向 的思想家们，所共有的理念， 又有什么区别？ and how does it differ from the conception that seems to be shared among libertarian and egalitarian rights oriented theorists alike? 正义意味着 给予每个人--他或她应有的， Justice means giving each person his or her due, 就是 给予人们应得之物 giving people what they deserve. 但一个人应得的是什么？ But what is a person's due? 它与 道义应得和美德 的相关之处 是什么？ What are the relevant grounds of merit or desert? 亚里士多德认为，这要看 被分配的是何种事物 Aristotle says that depends on the sort of things being distributed. “正义与两个因素有关： 什么物品， "Justice involves two factors: Things 以及 分配给谁 and the persons to whom the things are assigned. 亚里士多德写道，“一般而言， In general we say," Aristotle writes, 同等的人 就应当有同等的事物 分配予他们” "That persons who are equal should have equal things assigned to them." 但在分配中出现了 一个困难的问题 But here there arises a hard question. 在哪些方面 同等？ Equals in what respects? 亚里士多德认为，这要看 我们分配的是什么东西 Aristotle says that depends on the sort of thing we're distributing. 假定，我们分配的是长笛 Suppose we're distributing flutes. 对于长笛来说，它相应的 道义应得的基础 是什么？ What is the relevant merit or basis of desert for flutes? 谁该得到 最好的那只长笛？ Who should get the best ones? 亚里士多德的回答是什么？ What's Aristotle's answer? 有谁知道？ Anyone? 正确的回答是 最好的长笛手 The best flute players, right. 那些 在这方面最优秀的， Those who are best in the relevant sense, 最好的长笛手 the best flute players. 在长笛的分配中，这种差别对待是否 是正义的？ 是的 Is it just to discriminate in allocating flutes? Yes. 所有正义 都牵扯到差别对待，亚里士多德这样说。 All justice involves discrimination, Aristotle says. 关键的是，这种差别对待，要根据有关的优点， What matters is that the discrimination be according to the relevant excellence, 看看 拥有长笛 需要具备哪些特质。 according to the virtue appropriate to having flutes. 他认为，如果是按照其他方式 来进行分配，则是非正义的 He says it would be unjust to discriminate on some other basis. 比如说，把最好的长笛 分给 有钱的人 In giving out the flutes, to, say, wealth. 把最好的长笛 分给 出价最高者的人 Just giving the best flutes to the people who can pay the highest price, 或是 根据出身，分给贵族； or nobility of birth, just giving flutes to aristocrats, 或是 根据外表，把最好的长笛分给 相貌最漂亮的， or physical beauty, giving the best flutes to the most handsome, 或是 看运气，大家都来抽签 or chance, having a lottery. 亚里士多德认为， 与吹奏长笛的能力相比， Aristotle says birth and beauty may be greater goods 出身和美貌 或许是更大的优点， than the ability to play the flute, 那些拥有出身和美貌的人，在这些方面 胜过长笛手， and those who possess them may surpass the flute player more in these qualities 可能要比 长笛手胜过他们的吹奏能力 超出得更多 than he surpasses them in his flute playing. 但事实还是，他是应该得到那只最好长笛的人 But the fact remains that he is the person who ought to get the best flute. 这个比较，是一种奇怪的比较 It's a strange idea, this comparison, by the way, 你是否可以说:“ 我比她更帅，胜过 that could you say, "Am I more handsome 她比我曲棍球打得好? than she is a good lacrosse player?" 这是一种奇怪的比较 That's a strange kind of comparison. 但 暂且不谈这些 But putting that aside, 亚里士多德认为, 我们不是在正在寻找，各方面都最好的人 Aristotle says, we're not looking for the best overall whatever that might mean. 我们寻找的只是 最好的乐师 We're looking for the best musician. 为什么这一点很重要 Now, why this is important to see. 为什么最好的笛子 该给最好的笛手? Why, should the best flutes go to the best flute players? 你们觉得是为什么呢? Well, why do you think? 谁来说说? Anybody? 什么? 他们会制造出 最好的音乐 What? They'll produce the best music. 这样 每个人都将享受到更多 Well, and everybody will enjoy it more. 这并不是亚里士多德的回答 That's not Aristotle's answer. 亚里士多德并不是个功利主义者 Aristotle is not a utilitarian. 他不会这么说 “这样做，可以产生更好的音乐，而且每个人都可以享用它 He's not just saying, that way there'll be better music and everyone will enjoy it, 对每个人都有好处 everyone will be better off. 他的回答是。 最好的笛子给最好的笛手 His answer is the best flutes should go to the best flute players 因为这就是 笛子存在的目的 because that's what flutes are for. 被完美的演奏 To be played well. 演奏长笛的目的 是 The purpose of flute playing, the purpose, 产生非凡的音乐 is to produce excellent music. 谁 最能实现这个目标 And those who can best perfect that purpose, 谁就应该拥有这把笛子 ought properly to have the best ones. 这或许也是事实：受欢迎的副作用 Now, it may also be true, as a welcome side effect. 让每个人都享受到这样的音乐 That everyone will enjoy listening to that music. 因此，就目前而言，这个答案的确不假 So that answer is true enough, as far as it goes, 但重要之处在于，亚里士多德的理由 but it's important to see that Aristotle's 并不是一个功利主义的理由 reason is not a utilitarian reason. 它看的是.. It's a reason that looks, 你们可能会 觉得这里有点奇怪 here's where you might think it's a little bit strange, 它看的是 长笛吹奏的目标、目的 it looks to the purpose, the point, the goal, of flute playing. 另外一种形容的方式是 Another way of describing this, 根据目标来 决定公正地分配 looking to the goal to determine the just allocation, 在希腊语里，目标或目的 称作 “泰罗斯（telos）” the Greek for goal or end, was 'telos'. 因此，亚里士多德认为，你必须考虑 目标、目的 So Aristotle says, you have to consider the point, the end, the goal, 看 吹奏长笛的目的 the telos of the thing in this case of flute playing. 这就是 你确定公平分配的方法 And that's how you define a just allocation. 公平的差别对待 A just discrimination. 我们把 依据目标来推理，称为 “泰洛逻辑推理（目的论）” So this idea of reasoning from the goal, from the telos, is called "teleological reasoning". “泰洛逻辑道义推理” Teleological moral reasoning. 这就是亚里士多德的方式 And that's Aristotle's way. 根据目标、目的 来思考 Reasoning from the goal, from the end. 正如我所说，这或许 是一种奇怪的思想--- Now, this may seem, as I said a strange idea, 我们要根据目标来 进行推理-- that we're supposed to reason from the purpose, 但它确实有 某种直观的合理性 but it does have a certain intuitive plausibility. 说到分配，打个比方，哈佛最好的网球场 Consider the allocation, let's say, at Harvard, of the best tennis courts 或是壁球场 or squash courts. 它们该被怎样分配呢？ How should they be allocated? 谁应该 优先占有最好的球场呢？ Who should have priority in playing on the best courts? 你或许会说 Well, you might say, “谁付得起，就谁用” "Those who can best afford them." 安装一套收费系统，向他们收费 Set up a fee system, charge money for them. 亚里士多德会说： “不” Aristotle would say "No". 你可能会说 You might say, “好吧，哈佛的大人物，在哈佛最有影响力的人” "Well, Harvard big shots, the most influential people at Harvard, “这些人会是谁？” who would they be"? 高级教员应当优先 The senior faculty should have priority 使用最好的网球场 in playing on the best tennis courts. 不，亚里士多德 会反对这样 No, Aristotle would reject that. 科学家可能更有学术前途，胜过 大学校队网球选手网球打得更好， Some scientist may be a greater scientist than some Varsity tennis player is a tennis player, 但网球选手仍然是 but still the tennis player is the one 应当优先使用 最好的网球场的人 who should have priority for playing in the best tennis court. 这是一种看上去 直观合理的解释 There is a certain intuitive plausibility to this idea. 但让它显得奇怪的是 Now, one of the things that makes it strange 在亚里士多德的世界里，在那个古老的世界里 is that in Aristotle's world, in the ancient world, 在亚里士多德看来，根据目的论推理和解释，不是管理社会活动的唯一方式 it wasn't only social practices that were governed, in Aristotle's view, by teleological reasoning and teleological explanation. 万物都被理解为一种 有意义的秩序 All of nature was understood to be a meaningful order 理解自然，掌握自然， and what it meant to understand nature, to grasp nature, 找出我们在自然中的位置， to find our place in nature, 就是去调查，并找出自然的目的 was to inquire into and read out the purposes or the telos, of nature. 但随着现代科学的出现，很难再用 这种方式来思考世界 And with the advent of modern science, it's been difficult to think of the world that way 因此，用目的论的方式 来思考正义，就更困难了 and so it makes it harder perhaps to think of justice in a teleological way, 但 这里有某种自然性， but there is a certain naturalness 把自然界 看作有目的秩序，看作一个大目标。 to thinking about even the natural world, as teleologically ordered, as a purpose of whole. 实际上，我们得 教育孩子 用这种方式来看世界 In fact, children have to be educated out of this way of looking at the world. 我意识到这个问题的时候，我的孩子们都还很小 I realized this when my kids were very young 当时我正在给他们读一本书 《Winnie the Poo》 and I was reading them a book, Winnie the Poo. 《Winnie the Poo》会告诉你 And Winnie the Poo gives you a great idea of 怎样以一种自然的、孩子般的方式，以目的论的方式，来看世界。 how there is a certain, natural, childlike way of looking at the world in a teleological way. 你或许会记得，里面有这样一个故事 You may remember a story of Winnie-the-Poo 某天，Winnie-the-Poo在森林中散步 walking in the forest one day, “他来到森林里的某个地方 "He came to a place in the forest, 树顶上 传来了响亮的吱吱声音 and from the top of the tree there came a loud buzzing-noise. Winnie-the-Poo坐在一棵树下，用双爪抱住头 Winnie-the-Poo sat at the foot of a tree, put his head between his paws, 开始思考” and began to think." 下面是他的自言自语： "那种吱吱声意味着某些东西 Here's what he said to himself, " 'That buzzing-noise means something. 你不可能听到 那样一种 You don't get a buzzing-noise like that 毫无意义的吱吱、吱吱的声音 just buzzing and buzzing without its meaning something. 如果有这种声音的话 If there's a buzzing-noise, 一定是 某人发出这种声音 somebody's making a buzzing-noise. 而且，据我所知，发出这种声音的唯一理由是 And the only reason for making a buzzing-noise that I know of, 是因为那里有一只蜜蜂 is because you're a bee.' 然后，他又思索了很长一段时间， 然后说道 Then he thought for another long time and said, 据我所知，这里会有蜜蜂的唯一理由是 'And the only reason for being a bee that I know of, 它们在酿蜜 is making honey.' 然后他爬了上去 And then he got up, 并且说 它们酿蜜的唯一理由是 让我可以尝到蜂蜜 and he said, 'And the only reason for making honey, is so I can eat it.' 因此他开始 爬这棵树 So he began to climb the tree." 这就是目的论推理的一个例子 This is an example of teleological reasoning. 目的论推理 也并非 那么的不合情理的 It isn't so implausible after all. 现在，我们长大了， 我们不再以这种方式 Now, we grew up, and we're talked out of this way 来思考世界 of thinking about the world. 但问题在于 But here's the question, 即便是 目的论的解释 不适用于现代科学， even if teleological explanations don't fit with modern science, 即便我们已经长大了，已经不适合 用这种方式来理解自然了。 even if we've outgrown them in understanding nature, 亚里士多德认为的----思考正义唯一的方式是， 根据社会实践的目的和目标来推理， Isn't there something still intuitively, and morally plausible, even powerful, about Aristotle's idea that 它是否还有一些 直观有理、甚至有说服力的地方呢？ the only way to think about justice is to reason from the purpose, the goal, the telos, of the social practice? 刚才我们在讨论“平权运动” 意见不一时，我们不正是这样做吗？ And isn't that precisely what we were doing when we were disagreeing about affirmative action? 你几乎可以把刚才的意见不一， You can almost recast that disagreement 看作是在讨论 大学教育的目标应该是什么 as one about what the proper appropriate purpose, or end of a university education consists in. 从目的推理，或者说从“泰罗斯”出发进行推理。 Reasoning from the purpose or from the telos. Or from the end. 亚里士多德认为，在思考正义时，这是不可缺少的。 Aristotle says that's indispensable to thinking about justice. 他的想法对吗？ Is he right? 当你阅读亚里士多德的政治学时，思考这个问题 Think about that question as you turn to Aristotle's politics.
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What's the Right Thing to Do - Lecture 8 What's Fair and Deserved
怎样才是公平的开始 What's a Fair Start? 今天 我们来讨论 Today, we turn 分配公平的问题 to the question of distributive justice. 财富 权力和机会方面的收入 How should income in wealth and power 应该怎样分配? and opportunities be distributed?
根据怎样的原则分配呢? According to what principles? John Rawls给出了详尽的答案 John Rawls offers a detailed answer to that question. 而我们今天将要检验和评估 And we're going to examine and assess his answer 他对这个问题的答案 to that question, today. 上一次 我们也是亲自检验过 We put ourselves in a position to do so last time. 方法是试着去弄清为什么 By trying to make sense of why he thinks 他认为公正的原则 that principles of justice 主要源于假设合同 are best derived from a hypothetical contract. 而真正重要的是这份假设合同 And what matters is that the hypothetical contract 需要在原有的平等基础上实施 be carried out in an original position of equality, 而其背后 正是Rawls所说的 "无知的面纱" behind, what Rawls calls, the veil of ignorance. 这些明白了吗? So that much is clear? 好 现在让我们来看Rawls所说的 Alright, then let's turn to the principles 在"无知的面纱"背后 that Rawls says would be chosen 会选择哪些哪则 behind the veil of ignorance. 首先 他考虑过一些主要的替代原则 First, he considered some of the major alternatives. 比如说功利主义? What about utilitarianism? 在原始状态 人们会不会选择 Would the people in the original position 用功利主义的原则 choose to govern their collective lives 即追求最大多数人的最大快乐 来支配他们的集体生活? utilitarian principles, the greatest good for the greatest number? 不 他们不会的 Rawls认为 No, they wouldn't, Rawls says. 理由就是 And the reason is, 在无知的面纱背后 所有人都知道 that behind the veil of ignorance, everyone knows 一旦面纱被揭开 现实生活将开始 that once the veil goes up, and real life begins, 我们每个人都渴望尊严 希望获得尊重 we will each want to be respected with dignity. 即使是我们处于少数派的一员 Even if we turn out to be a member of a minority, 我们也不想受到压迫 we don't want to be oppressed. 因此我们会同意 And so we would agree 去反对功利主义 取而代之的 是采取我们的 to reject utilitarianism, and instead to adopt 第一原则 即基本自由原则 as our first principle, equal basic liberties. 人们有言论自由 Fundamental rights to freedom of speech, 集会自由 宗教自由 freedom of assembly, religious liberty, 信仰自由等基本权利 freedom of conscience and the like. 我们不会愿意冒险 We wouldn't want to take the chance 担心我们会成为那些 that we would wind up 被压迫或受轻视的少数派 as members of an oppressed or a despised minority 被多数派所欺压 with the majority tyrannizing over us. 因此Rawls说 人们不会接受功利主义 And so Rawls says utilitarianism would be rejected. "功利主义导致错误频发" Rawls写道 "Utilitarianism makes the mistake", Rawls writes, "它使人忘记 或至少是忽视 "of forgetting, or at least not taking seriously, 人与人之间是存在着差异的" the distinction between persons." 在无知的面纱背后的原始状态 And in the original position behind the veil of ignorance, 我们会承认差别 拒绝功利主义 we would recognize that and reject utilitarianism. 我们不会用基本权利和自由 We wouldn't trade off our fundamental rights and liberties 来换取经济优势 for any economic advantages. 这是第一原则 That's the first principle. 第二原则 与社会和经济的不平等有关 Second principle has to do with social and economic inequalities. 我们赞成什么? What would we agree to? 记着 我们不知道我们最终 Remember, we don't know whether we're going to 是贫是富 wind up being rich or poor. 健康与否 Healthy or unhealthy. 我们不知道我们会来自怎样的家庭 We don't know what kind of family we're going to come from. 我们是富二代呢 Whether we're going to inherit millions 还是来自贫困家庭 or whether we will come from an impoverished family. 因此 也许乍一想 So we might, at first thought, 我们会说 "我们要求收入和财富的平等分配" say, "Well, let's require an equal distribution of income and wealth." 只是为了以防万一 Just to be on the safe side. 但是 我们会意识到 But then we would realize, 我们可以做得更好 that we could do better than that. 就算我们很不走运 出身于社会底层 Even if we're unlucky and wind up at the bottom. 但如果我们同意采取有条件的平等原则 我们会做得更好 We could do better if we agree to a qualified principle of equality. Rawls把它称为 "差异原则" Rawls calls it "the Difference Principle." 这个原则认为 只有在社会与经济不平等这一条件 A principle that says, only those social and economic 能够为最贫困最底层的人带来利益之时 inequalities will be permitted that work to the benefit 才许可这一条件 of the least well off. 因此我们不会拒绝所有收入和财富的不平等 So we wouldn't reject all inequality of income and wealth. 我们会允许一些 We would allow some. 但是标准是 But the test would be, 他们是否服务于所有人的利益 do they work to the benefit of everyone including those, 或正如这个原则所强调的 or as he specifies, the principle, 尤其是最底层人民的利益 especially those at the bottom. 在无知的面纱后 只有这样的不平等可以被接受 Only those inequalities would be accepted behind the veil of ignorance. 因此Rawls认为 只有那些有利于贫困人民的不平等 And so Rawls argues, only those inequalities that work to the benefit 才能称之为公平 of the least well off, are just. 我们讲过迈克尔·乔丹 We talked about the examples of 每年赚3100百万美元的例子 Michael Jordan making 31 million dollars a year, 也讲过比尔·盖茨拥有数百亿美元财富的例子 of Bill Gates having a fortune in the tens of billions. 在差异原则下 这样的不平等会被允许吗? Would those inequalities be permitted under the difference principle? 除非当这些收入差异是某个系统的一部分 Only if they were part of a system, those wage differentials, 而这个系统确实在为最底层人民服务时 才会被允许 that actually work to the advantage of least well off. 那么 这个系统会是什么? Well, what would that system be? 也许在实际情况下 Maybe it turns out that as a practical matter 你需要提供动力 you have to provide incentives 才能把需要的人才吸引到某些工作岗位 to attract the right people to certain jobs. 而当你这样做了 在这些岗位上有这些人 And when you do, having those people in those jobs 确实会帮助底层人民 will actually help those at the bottom. 严格来讲 Rawls关于差异原则的论据是 Strictly speaking, Rawls's argument for the difference principle 在无知的面纱之后 这个原则会被采用 is that it would be chosen behind the veil of ignorance. 我想要听听你们关于 Let me hear what you think about Rawls对于无知的面纱后会采取的 Rawls's claim that these two principles would be chosen 这两种原则的看法 behind the veil of ignorance. 有没有人不同意选择这两种原则? Is there anyone who disagrees that they would be chosen? 好 可以的话 我们从楼上开始吧 Alright, let's start up in the balcony, if that's alright. 说吧 Go ahead. 你的论证的基础是 OK, your argument depends upon us believing that 我们相信我们会从底层来讨论政治或公平 we would argue in said policy, or justice from a bottom. 因为我们处于弱势 For the disadvantaged. 我没有看到真凭实据 And I just don't see from a proof standpoint, 我们怎么证明了这点 where we've proven that. 为什么不是上层开始? Why not the top? - 好的 你叫什么? - 我叫Mike - Right, and what's your name? - Mike. Mike 好的 好问题 Mike, alright, good question. 把你自己放在无知的面纱后 Put yourself behind the veil of ignorance. 进入思想的实验 Enter into the thought experiment. 你会选择什么原则？ What principles would you choose? 你怎么想清楚的? How would you think it through? 我认为 哈佛大学的存在本身 Well, I would say things like, even Harvard's existence 就是一个向上层宣讲的例子 is an example of preaching toward the top. 因为哈佛是学府的最上层 Because Harvard takes the top academics. 我出生的时候 并不知道我会变得多聪明 And I didn't know when I was born how smart I would be. 但是我一直在努力 才达到了这个水平 But I worked my life to get to a place of this caliber. 现在 如果你说哈佛要随机挑选 Now, if you had said Harvard's going to randomly take 1600 people 1600个完全没有资格的人 我们都会说 of absolutely no qualification, we'd all be saying, "我们的努力真不值得" "There's not much to work for." 那么你会选择什么原则呢? And so what principle would you choose? 在这种情况下 我会选择基于功绩的原则 In that situation I would say a merit based one. 虽然我不太清楚这样的原则 但我宁愿选择一个 One where I don't necessarily know, but I would rather have a system that 根据我的努力给予奖励的体系 rewards me based on my efforts. 那么Mike 在无知的面纱后 So you, Mike, behind the veil of ignorance, 你会选择基于功绩 would choose a merit-based system, 根据人们的努力程度给予奖励的体系吗? where people are rewarded according to their efforts? 好的 很公平 你觉得呢? Alright, fair enough. What would you say? 请说 Go ahead. 我的问题是 这个基于功绩的论证是否建立在 My question is, if the merit-based argument is based on 人人平等的基础上? when everyone is at a level of equality? 是在这个基础上 你因你到达的程度受到奖励 Where from that position, you're rewarded to where you get, 还是要忽略那些在你开始受教育 or is it regardless of what advantages you may have 并为未来努力的时候 你可能就具有的优势? when you began your education to get where you are here? 我认为你问的这个问题是说 I think what the question you're asking is saying that 当我们想要功利主义或政治之类时 if we want to look at, whatever, utilitarianism, policy, 是否想使世界的财富最大化 do you want to maximize world wealth. 我认为功绩体系 And I think a system that rewards merit 是我们大多数人一起确立的 is the one that we've pretty much all established, 是对我们所有人最好的体系 is what is best for all of us. 尽管我们中的某些人是百分之二的少数派 Despite the fact that some of us may be in the second percentile 而某些是百分之九十八的多数派 and some may be in the 98th percentile. 到最后 当最底层也得到提升时 At the end of the day it lifts that lowest based level, 社会氛围会反对关于努力的奖励的差异 a community that rewards effort as opposed to an differences. 但是 我不明白 你是怎样奖励某些人的付出的 But, I don't understand how you're rewarding someone's efforts 那些人 不是你 或许是我 who clearly has had, not you, but maybe myself, 在取得成功的路上 一直都有显著的优势 advantages throughout, to get where I am here. 我的意思是 我不能说其他那些 I mean, I can't say that somebody else 和我一样努力的人 who maybe worked as hard as I did 都会有和我一样的机会 would have had the same opportunity to come 进入这样的大学 to a school like this. 好的 我们来讨论这一点 你叫什么? Alright, let's look at that point. What's your name? - 我叫Kate - Kate 你觉得能否 - Kate. -Kate, you suspect that the ability 进入顶尖的大学 在很大程度上取决于 to get into top schools may largely depend 你的家庭是否富足 on coming from an affluent family, 是否有很好的家庭背景 having a favorable family background, 社会 文化 经济等优势? social, cultural, economic advantages and so on? 我是说经济方面 不过社会和文化方面也有 I mean, economic, but yes, social, cultural. 所有这些优势 的确 All of those advantages, for sure. 有人做过一项调查 Someone did a study, of the 146 selective 在美国 他们选择了146所院校 colleges and universities in the United States. 他们调查这些院校里的 And they looked at the students 学生们 想要调查出 in those colleges and universities 他们的家庭背景 经济背景 to try to find out what their background was, their economic background. 你觉得 其中有多少人 What percentage do you think, come from the bottom quarter 来自收入最底层? of the income scale? 你知道数据是什么吗? You know what the figure is? 在这些院校里 只有百分之三的学生 Only three percent of students, at the most selective colleges and universities 出身贫寒 come from poor backgrounds. 有超过百分之七十的学生出身富足 Over 70 percent come from affluent families. 让我们再进一步 试着解决Mike的挑战 Let's go one step further then, and try to address Mike's challenge. 实际上 Rawls有两个论据 而不是一个 Rawls actually has two arguments, not one, 来支持他的公平理论 in favor of his principles of justice. 尤其是支持差异原则 And in particular, of the difference principle. 一个论证是官方论证 One argument is the official argument, 在无知的面纱后人们会选择什么理论 what would be chosen behind the veil of ignorance. 有人挑战了这个论证 他们说 Some people challenge that argument, saying, "也许人们会想要冒险 "Maybe people would want to take their chances. 也许人们在无知的面纱后都会成为赌徒 Maybe people would be gamblers behind the veil of ignorance, 希望他们最后可以到达顶层" hoping that they would wind up on top." 这是对于Rawls的一个挑战 That's one challenge that has been put to Rawls. 但是从原始状态来支持这个论证的 But backing up the argument from the original position 是第二个论据 is the second argument. 即直接道德论据 And that is the straightforwardly moral argument. 它是这样说的 And it goes like this, 它说 it says, 收入 财富和机会的分配 the distribution of income and wealth and opportunities 不应该基于那些 should not be based on factors 人们不信任的因素 for which people can claim no credit. 不应该基于那些从道德层面看来 专制的因素 It shouldn't be based on factors that are arbitrary from a moral point of view. 通过对比不同的公平理论 Rawls举例说明了这点 Rawls illustrates this by considering several rival theories of justice. 他从现在大多数人 He begins with the theory of justice 都会拒绝的公平理论开始说起 that most everyone these days would reject. 封建贵族统治 A feudal aristocracy. 封建贵族统治下的生活分配有什么问题? What's wrong with the allocation of life prospects in a feudal aristocracy? Rawls说 这种分配明显的错误 Rawls says, well the thing that's obviously wrong about it is 就是人们的生活前景 that people's life prospects are determined 取决于他们的出身 by the accident of birth. 你出生在贵族还是农奴之家? Are you born to a noble family or to a family of peasants and serfs? 就这样了 你不能升职 And that's it. You can't rise. 你不能改变你的未来 It's not your doing where you wind up 不能去把握机会 or what opportunities you have. 但是从道德层面看 这是专制的 But that's arbitrary from a moral point of view. 因此 在历史过程中 And so that objection to feudal aristocracy 对于封建贵族统治的抵制 使得人们认为 leads, and historically has lead, people to say, 成功应该接纳人才 careers should be open to talents. 应该有平等的机会 There should be formal equality of opportunity 这样的机会与出身无关 regardless of the accident of birth. 每个人都可以自由地去奋斗 去工作 Every person should be free to strive, to work, 去应聘任何职位 to apply for any job in the society. 所以 如果你不仅提供工作 让人们来应聘 And then, if you open up jobs, and you allow people to apply, 而且让他们在各自的岗位上各尽所能 那么其结果就是公平的 and to work as hard as they can, then the results are just. 这有点类似于我们前几周讨论的 So it's more or less the libertarian system that we've discussed 自由主义制度 in earlier weeks. Rawls对此有何看法呢? What does Rawls think about this? 他认为这是一次进步 He says it's an improvement. 之所以说是一次进步 是因为它没有被用于 It's an improvement because it doesn't take as fixed 去弥补天生的造化 the accident of birth. 但即使是就平等主义的形式 But even with formal equality of opportunity 自由主义观念并没有于扩展于此 the libertarian conception doesn't extend that, 并未有深入地探讨这个问题 doesn't extend its insight far enough. 因为如果让每个人都参加赛跑 Because if you let everybody run the race, 任何人都可以进入跑道 但是某些人 everybody can enter the race, but some people start 却可以从不同的起点开始 那么比赛就不会公平 at different starting points, that race isn't going to be fair. 直观来说 他认为这个制度明显的不公平性 Intuitively, he says, the most obvious injustice of this system 在于它允许分配 受到来源于专断的 is that it permits distributive shares to be improperly influenced 道德观念的不恰当的影响 by factors arbitrary from a moral point of view. 比如 不管你是否曾经接受好的教育 Such as, whether you got a good education or not. 也不论你是否成长在一个经济上给予你支持 Whether you grew up in a family that support you 致力于培养你的职业道德 and developed in you a work ethic 并且为你提供各种机会的家庭 and gave you the opportunities. 这表明它已经演变成了一个 So that suggests moving to a system of fair 机会均等的制度 equality of opportunity. 这就是Mike刚才提倡的体制的本质 And that's really the system that Mike was advocating earlier on. 我们可以叫它基优制 What we might call a merit-based system. 一个绩效化的制度 A meritocratic system. 在公平的精英制中 社会建立各种机构 In a fair meritocracy the society sets up institutions 以确保在比赛开始前 to bring everyone to the same starting point 每个人的起点相同 before the race begins. 享受平等的受教育的权利 Equal educational opportunities. 比如说 早期智力开发项目 Head start programs, for example. 对于贫困社区学校的帮助 Support for schools in impoverished neighborhoods. 这样的话 每个人 不管家庭背景如何 So that everyone, regardless of their family background, 都拥有真正的公平的机会 has a genuinely fair opportunity. 即每个人都站在同一起跑线上 Everyone starts from the same starting line. 那么 Rawls是怎样看待精英制度的呢? Well, what does Rawls think about the meritocratic system? 他认为 就连这种制度也未能有效地 Even that, he says, doesn't go far enough 弥补或者解决 in remedying, or addressing, 每个人得到的"自然彩数"(指运气) the moral arbitrariness 以及道德的任意性 of the natural lottery. 因为 如果你让每个人都站在同一起跑线上 Because if you bring everyone to the same starting point 然后开始比赛 谁才会赢得胜利呢? and begin the race, who's going to win the race? 谁会赢? Who would win? 拿跑步者来说 To use the runners example. 跑得最快的人会赢 The fastest runners would win. 但是 他们之所以会赢 But is it their doing 是因为刚好有着运动员的天赋 所以跑得快吗? that they happen to be blessed with athletic prowess to run fast? 所以Rawls说 "即使是精英制的原则 So Rawls says, "Even the principle of meritocracy, 让每个人都站在同一起跑线上 where you bring everyone to the same starting point, 可能会消除社会偶然因素 和社会教养带来的影响 may eliminate the influence of social contingencies and upbringing, 但是它还是允许财富和收入的分配 but it still permits the distribution of wealth and income to be determined 受能力与天赋的自然分布的支配" by the natural distribution of abilities and talents." 所以他认为 在消除道德观念武断 And so he thinks that the principle of eliminating 在收入和财富的影响的这一原则 morally arbitrary influences in the distribution of income and wealth 需要超越 requires going beyond Mike提倡的精英制度系统 what Mike favors, the meritocratic system. 那么 你怎样去超越呢? Now, how do you go beyond? 即使你让每个人都站在同一起跑线上 Do you bring everyone to the same starting point 你还是因为一些人是跑步好手 and you're still bothered by the fact that 而另外一些人都不善于跑步而困扰 some are fast runners and some are not fast runners, 你能做什么呢? what can you do? 一些持有更为平等观念的评论家们说 Well, some critics of a more egalitarian conception 你唯一能做的就是给运动健将们制造障碍 say the only thing you can do is handicap the fast runners. 让他们穿上铅鞋 Make them wear lead shoes. 但谁又想那么做呢? But who wants to do that? 那只会彻底毁掉整个比赛 That would defeat the whole point of running the race. 但是Rawls认为 如果你想 But Rawls says, you don't have to have 超越精英制度的话 没有必要去追求一种 a kind of leveling equality, if you want to go 水平上的平等 beyond a meritocratic conception. 你只要允许 甚至鼓励 You permit, you even encourage, 那些也许有天赋的人 去实现他们的才能 those who may be gifted, to exercise their talents. 但是你要做的 就是改变条件 But what you do, is you change the terms 让其他的人也能够享受到有才能的人 on which people are entitled to the fruits of 实践成功过后的果实 the exercise of those talents. 那才是差异原则所要表达的真正含义 And that really is what the difference principle is. 你将建立起一项这样的原则 You establish a principle that says, 人们也许会从他们的好运中获利 people may benefit from their good fortune, 从他们在基因博彩中的胜出中获利 from their luck in the genetic lottery, 但条件是 必须将自己所得部分 用于帮助那些最贫困的人 but only on terms that work to the advantage of the least well off. 因此 举个例子 And so, for example, 迈克尔·乔丹可以赚3100万美元 Michael Jordan can make 31 million dollars but, 但那必须在一个特定的制度下 税收会将他的部分收入 only under a system that taxes away a chunk of that 拨来帮助那些与他刚好相反的 缺乏篮球技巧的人 to help those who lack the basketball skills that he's blessed with. 同样的 比尔·盖茨 Likewise, Bill Gates. 他可以继续赚大钱 He can make his billions. 但从道德角度而言 他不能认为自己理所当然 But he can't think that he somehow morally deserves 该拥有这么多钱 those billions. "那些先天受到自然眷顾的人 "Those who have been favored by nature, 可以从他们的好运中获得利益 但那只建立在改善 may gain from their good fortune but only on terms that improve 那些失利者状况的基础上" the situation of those who have lost out." 这就是差异原则 That's the difference principle. 一个来自于道德武断主义的论断 And it's an argument from moral arbitrarianists. Rawls主张 如果你为了如何将共享分配建立在 Rawls claims, that if you're bothered by basing distributive shares 道德观念的专断性上而烦恼 on factors arbitrary from a moral point of view, 那么你并不只是为了自由市场 而否决了封建贵族 you don't just reject a feudal aristocracy for a free market. 你甚至不满足于让每个人都站在 You don't even rest content with a meritocratic system 同一起跑线上的精英制度 that brings everyone to the same starting point. 于是你建立起一项新的制度 在这个制度下 每个人 You set up a system, where everyone, including those at the bottom, 包括那些处在社会底层的人 都将从那些有幸拥有天赋才能 benefit from the exercise of the talents held by those 并将其实现的人那里获益 who happen to be lucky. 你们怎么看? 这令人信服吗? What do you think? Is that persuasive? 谁觉得这个论题没有说服力? Who finds that argument unpersuasive? 关于这个道德武断主义的论题 The argument for moral arbitrarianists. 请说 Yes. 我认为 在平等主义的主张下 I think that in the egalitarian proposition 那些更有才能的人 the more talented people, 即使清楚自己辛苦得来的部分财产 I think it's very optimistic to think that they 将会被再分配 还是会一如既往地努力工作 would still work really hard, even if they knew that 这一想法过于乐观 part of what they made would be given away. 所以我认为 更有才能的人们要想最大限度地 So I think that the only way for the more talented people to 实现他们的才能 唯一的方法就是 exercise their talents to the best of their ability 依靠精英制度 is in the meritocracy. 但是在精英制度下 你叫什么名字? And in a meritocracy, what's your name? 我叫Kate Kate. Kate 那曾经困扰你吗 还有Mike 也曾经困扰过吗 Kate, does it bother you, and Mike, does it bother you, 在精英制度下 甚至在机会均等的条件下 that in a meritocratic system, that even with fair equality of opportunity, 有人遥遥领先 有人获得他不值得拥有的奖励 people get ahead, people get rewards that they don't deserve 仅仅只是因为他们有幸拥有某种天赋 simply because they happen to be naturally gifted. 那又作何解释呢? What about that? 我认为这是武断的 I think that it is arbitrary. 很明显具有武断性 Obviously it's arbitrary. 但是我认为 轻易地改变它是十分不利的 But I think that correcting for it would be detrimental. 因为这会减少积极性 是这样吗? Because it would reduce incentives, is that why? 会减少积极性 是的 It would reduce incentives, yeah. Mike 你怎么看? Mike, what do you say? 我们现在正坐在这间教室里 我们不配 We're all sitting in this room and we have undeserved, 我们在某种程度上 不配有这种荣誉 we have undeserved glory of some sort. 所以你不应该满足于个人的人生进程 So you should not be satisfied with the process of your life. 因为这一切都不是你创造的 Because you have not created any of this. 而且我认为 从一个角度看 不仅是这间教室 让我们感到失败 And I think, from a standpoint of, not just this room, us being upset, 从社会的角度看 我们更应该对那种失败的感觉 but from a societal standpoint we should have some kind of 做出某种本能的反应 a gut reaction to that feeling. 赢得比赛的那个人 他... The guy who runs the race, he doesn't... 他实际上伤害了我们 因为跟他相比 可能我最后10码 He actually harms us as opposed to maybe makes me run that last 必须得加速 ten yards faster. 我身后的那个选手也得加速10码 And that makes the guy behind me run ten yards faster 他身后的选手同样要加速10码 and the guy behind him ten yards faster. 好吧 那么Mike 我来问你 Alright, so Mike, let me ask you. 你刚才谈到了努力 努力 You talked about effort before. Effort. 你认为当有些人因认真工作而遥遥领先 并获得成功 Do you think when people work hard to get ahead, and succeed, 那么他们就值得那些伴随努力而来的嘉奖吗? that they deserve the rewards that go with effort? 那难道不是你自我辩护下的措辞吗? Isn't that the idea behind your defense? 我是说 当然 把迈克尔·乔丹带到这儿 I mean, of course, bring Michael Jordan here, 我肯定你一定能做到 让他来这儿 I'm sure you can get him, and have him come 为他自己赚的3100万美元进行辩护 and defend himself about he makes 31 million dollars. 然后我想你就会了解 And I think what you're going to realize is 他付出了非常 非常艰苦的努力才到达人生的顶峰 his life was a very, very tough one to get to the top. 我们根本就是多数人以另一种角度在压迫少数人 And that we are basically being the majority oppressing the minority in a different light. 他很容易成为攻击的对象 非常容易 It's very easy to pick on him. Very easy. 好吧 关于努力 Alright, effort. 你知道... You've got... 我知道得很少 很少一部分 但是差不多就这些了 I've got a few. I've got a few. But that's about it. 关于努力 你知道Rawls对此的回答是什么吗? Effort, you know what Rawls's answer to that is? 即使是一些人所付出的努力 Even the effort that some people expend, 奋斗精神 职业道德 conscientious striving, the work ethic, 即使是努力本身 很大程度上也依赖于幸运的家庭环境 even effort depends a lot on fortunate family circumstances. 无论是你 还是我们 都不敢妄自邀功 For which you, we, can claim no credit. 让我们来做个调查吧 一个小调查 Let's do the test. Let's do a test here. 不要考虑经济阶层的问题 那些差异是很明显的 Never mind economic class, those differences are very significant. 把它们放在一边 Put those aside. 心理学家认为 出生顺序对于职业道德 奋斗 努力 Psychologists say that birth order makes a lot of difference 有着非常重要的作用 in work ethic, striving, effort. 这里有多少同学 请举手 How many here, raise your hand, 在座的各位 哪些同学的出生顺序是在前的 those of you here, who are first in birth order. 顺便说一句我也是 I am too by the way. Mike 我看到你举了手 Mike, I noticed you raised your hand. 如果精英制度的理念就是 If the case for the meritocratic conception 付出应该得到回报 is that effort should be rewarded, 那么Rawls为什么没有提出一个观点 认为即使努力 doesn't Rawls have a point that even effort 奋斗 职业道德的塑造 都很大程度上取决于出生顺序的先后? striving, work ethic is largely shaped even by birth order? 这是你们能决定的吗? Is it your doing? Mike 你能决定你是否能最先出生吗? Mike, is it your doing that you were first in birth order? 为什么呢 Rawls说 当然不能 Then why, Rawls says, of course not. 那么 为什么生活中的收入 财富和机会 So why should income and wealth and opportunities in life 应该建立在道德观念的武断性上呢 be based on factors arbitrary from a moral point of view? 那就是他向当今自由市场社会 That's the challenge that he puts 提出的挑战 同样也是对 to market societies, but also 像我们一样待在教室里的人的挑战 to those of us at places like this. 这个问题我们下节课再继续讨论 A question to think about for next time. “密纳法的猫头鹰 要等到黄昏，才会起飞”——黑格尔 The owl of Minerva spreads its wings only with the falling of the dusk. ---Hegel “密纳法的猫头鹰”：希腊神话中智慧女神密纳法肩上的猫头鹰，是智慧和理性的体现。 猫头鹰的一个特点是在黄昏起飞。 黑格尔借这个譬喻说明“哲学的认识方式只是一种反思——意指跟随在事实背后后面的反复思考。” 上节课 我们做了一个有趣的民意测验 大家还记得吗? We ended last time with that remarkable poll, do you remember? 关于出生顺序的民意测验 The poll about birth order. 有多少百分比的同学 What percentage of people 在这个教室里举起了手 in this room raised their hands, 说自己是最先出生的? was it, to say that they were the first born? 75%或80%? 75, 80 percent? 这项数据的重要之处在哪里呢? And what was the significance of that? 如果你在认真思考这些关于公平分配的理论 If you're thinking about these theories of distributive justice. 记住 我们是在讨论 Remember, we were discussing 三种不同的关于分配公平的理论 three different theories of distributive justice. 三种不同的针对以下问题的答案 Three different ways of answering the question, "如何在生活中分配财富 机会 "How should income and wealth and opportunities 和其他一切美好的事物?" and the good things in life, be distributed?" 到目前为止 我们看到了自由主义的答案 And so far we've looked at the libertarian answer. 它主张 分配所需的公平制度 That says, the just system of distribution 是一种可以保证自由贸易和自由市场经济的制度 is a system of free exchange, a free market economy. 这与形式平等的大背景相背离 Against a background of formal equality. 简单地说 就是工作和事业向所有人开放 Which simply means, that jobs and careers are open to anyone. Rawls称 与贵族制度和等级制度相比 Rawls says that this represents an improvement 这代表着一次巨大的进步 over aristocratic and caste systems, 因为每个人都能竞争上岗 because everyone can compete for every job. 前途向有才能的人开放 Careers open to talents. 除此之外 要求分配公平也是 And beyond that, the just distribution is the one 自由贸易发展的结果之一 that results from free exchange. 自愿交易 Voluntary transactions. 分毫不差 No more, no less. 可是Rawls反对说 如果你拥有的只是形式主义的平等 Then Rawls argues, if all you have is formal equality, 比如工作向所有人开放 jobs open to everyone, 其结果也不会是公平的 the result is not going to be fair. 这只会有利于那些碰巧出生在 It will be biased in favor of those who happen to be born 富裕的家庭 to affluent families, 碰巧得益于良好的教育机会的人 who happen to have the benefit of good educational opportunities. 那样的话 出生的造化 And that accident of birth 就不仅仅只是分配人生机会的基本原则了 is not a just basis for distributing life chances. 所以 许多注意到这个不公平现象的人 And so, many people who notice this unfairness, Rawls认为 重新采用了一种机会均等的分配体制 Rawls argues, are lead to embrace a system of fair equality of opportunity. 精英制度体系由此而建立 That leads to the meritocratic system. 强调机会均等 Fair equality of opportunity. 但是Rawls认为 如果你让每个人 But Rawls says, even if you bring everyone 都站在同一起跑线上 to the same starting point in the race, 将会发生什么? 谁才会是赢家? what's going to happen? Who's going to win? 跑得最快的人 The fastest runners. 所以一旦你困扰于如何将分配份额 So once you're troubled by basing distributive shares 建立在道德武断性的突发事件上 on morally arbitrary contingencies, 你就应该 如果你已探究过的话 you should, if you reason it through, 坚决支持Ralws所提出的"民主构想" be carried all the way to what Rawls calls, "the democratic conception". 一个以差异原则为基础的 平等主义色彩更为浓厚的 A more egalitarian conception of distributive justice 关于分配公平的构想 that he defines by the difference principle. 不过 他并没有提到 弥补或者改善 Now, he doesn't say that the only way to remedy 人们天生的才干与能力差异的唯一方法 or to compensate for differences in natural talents and abilities 就是追求某种 水平上的平等 is to have a kind of, leveling equality. 一个有保障的 结果的平等 A guaranteed equality of outcome. 但是他却认为 But he does say 还有另外一种方法可以处理这些突发事件 there's another way to deal with these contingencies. 人们可以从他们的好运中获得好处 People may gain, may benefit from their good fortune, 但条件是必须兼顾公平 帮助那些最不富裕的人 but only on terms that work to the advantage of the least well off. 因此 通过对当今社会出现的工资水平差异的思考 And so, we can test how this theory actually works 我们也许可以检验出这个理论的提出 by thinking about some paid differentials that arise 到底意义何在 in our society. 你们认为 美国学校教师的 What does the average school teacher make 平均工资是多少? in the United States, do you suppose? - 粗略估算 - 3万5千美元 - Roughly. - $35,000. 更多一些 是4万 4万2千美元 It's a little more, 40, $42,000. David Letterman(著名脱口秀主持人)呢? What about David Letterman? 你们认为David Letterman的工资是多少? How much do you think David Letterman makes? 比一名学校教师更多吗? More than a school teacher? 他的工资是3100万美元 $31 million. David Letterman. 那公平吗? Is that fair? 一名主持人比一名教师的工资还高? That David Letterman makes that much more than a school teacher? Rawls的解读是 Well, Rawls's answer would be, 这取决于社会的基本结构是否以下列方式构成 it depends whether the basic structure of society is designed in such a way 即Letterman的3100万美元所交的税款 that Letterman's $31 million is subject to taxation 将这些款项的一部分用来 so that some of those earnings are taken 补偿最贫困的人的缺失 to work for the advantage of the least well off. 另一个关于工资差异的例子 One other example of a paid differential. 美国联邦最高法院的公平问题 A justice of the United States Supreme Court. 他们的工资是多少? What do they make? 不足20万美元 It's just under $200,000. 我们以桑德拉·奥康纳法官为例 这是她的工资 Here's Sandra Day O'Connor, for example. There she is. 但是还有另外一位法官 她的工资远远超过 But there's another judge who makes a lot more 桑德拉·奥康纳法官 than Sandra Day O'Connor. - 你们知道她是谁吗? - 法官朱蒂 - Do you know who it is? - Judge Judy. Judy法官 你们怎么知道的? Judge Judy. How did you know that? 你们看见了? You watch? 没错 You're right. Judy法官 你们知道她的工资是多少吗? Judge Judy, you know how much she makes? 这是她的工资 There she is. 2500万美元 $25 million. 那么 那公平吗? 公正吗? Now, is that just? Is it fair? 答案是 公正与否 取决于它是否 Well, the answer is, it depends on whether 违背了与差异原则相适应的 this is against a background system 后台管理系统的原则 in line with the difference principle. 取决于这些出类拔萃的人 所得收入和财富的分配 Where those who come out on top, in terms of 是否遵循着同一分配原则 income and wealth are taxed in a way 即兼顾公平 帮助社会中最不富裕的人 that benefits the least well off members of society. 现在 让我们回到这个 Now, we're going to come back 薪酬差异的问题上来 关于一位真正的法官 to these wage differentials, pay differentials, 和一位电视法官工资差异 between a real judge and a TV judge. Marcus可一直在看这个电视节目 The one Marcus watches all the time. 现在我要做的 就是回到这些理论上来 What I want to do now, is return to these theories 检验一下那些因反对Rawls提出的 and to examine the objections to 更加平等的理论 Rawls's more egalitarian theory. 即差异原则 The difference principle. 目前为止 一共有三种观点 There are at least three objections 反对Rawls的差异原则 to Rawls's difference principle. 其中一个观点是你们中的一员 One of them came up last time in the discussion 在上节课的讨论中提出来的 and a number of you raised this worry. 积极性又该如何平衡? What about incentives? 如果边际税率达到了70% 80% 甚至90% Isn't there the risk, if taxes reach 70, 80, 90 percent marginal rate 难道不怕迈克尔·乔丹不再打球了吗? that Michael Jordan won't play basketball? 难道不怕David Letterman不再做晚间秀了吗? That David Letterman won't do late night comedy? 又或者执行总裁们都跳槽去别的行业了? Or that CEOs will go into some other line of work? 在座的 有没有哪位Rawls理论的支持者 Now, who among those who are defenders of Rawls 来回答一下 关于反对派提出的 激励的必要性 who has an answer to this objection about 进行简单的辩护? the need for incentives? 好的 请说 站起来吧 Yes. Go ahead, stand up. Rawls的观点是 要帮助那些最不富裕的人 Rawls's idea is that there should only be so much difference 有很多种不同的可行方法 that it helps the least well off the most. 所以 如果过分强调平等 那么最不富裕的人们 So if there's too much equality, then the least well off 就不会有机会看晚间秀 might not be able to watch late night TV, 或者根本不会有工作 因为他们的总裁不想工作 or might not have a job because their CEO doesn't want to work. 所以你只需要找到两者之间正确的平衡点 So you need to find the correct balance where 即税收仍然会给佼佼者带来激励 以便贫困者能够从佼佼者 taxation still leaves enough incentive to least well off to benefit - 当中受益 - 很好 - from the talents. - Good. - 你叫什么名字? - 我叫Tim - And what's your name? - Tim. Tim 很好 Tim说 实际上 Tim. Alright, so Tim is saying, in effect, Rawls考虑到了激励因素的问题 that Rawls is taking count of incentives. 并且考虑到了薪酬差异 And could allow for pay differentials and 和税率的调整 for some adjustment in the tax rate 对激励因素的影响 to take account of incentives. 但是 Tim指出 But, Tim points out, 激励因素应当被考虑在内的这一观点 不应该立足于 the standpoint from which the question of incentives needs to be considered 只看到对这块经济蛋糕规模的影响 is not the effect on the total size of the economic pie. 而应该立足于探究 But instead from the standpoint of the effect 激励因素或抑制因素 of incentives, or disincentives, 对底层人民的福利的影响 on the well-being of those on the bottom. 对吗? Right? 很好 谢谢你 Good. Thank you. 我想那也是Rawls想要说的 I think that is what Rawls would say. 实际上 如果你看了第17节 In fact, if you look in section 17, 你就会了解 他在阐述差异原则时 where he describes the difference principle, 是考虑到了激励因素的 he allows for incentives. "那些在天赋上占优势的人 "The naturally advantaged are not gain 不能仅仅因为他们天赋较高而得益 merely because they are more gifted, 而只能通过抵消训练和教育费用 but only to cover the costs of training and education 和用他们的天赋帮助较不利者而得益" and for using their endowments in ways that help less fortunate as well." 所以你可以采取激励措施 你可以调整税率 So you can have incentives. You can adjust the tax rate. 如果从David Letterman那里拿走得太多 If taking too much from David Letterman 或是从迈克尔·乔丹和比尔·盖茨那儿拿得太多 or from Michael Jordan, or from Bill Gates, 最终只会损害底层人们的利益 winds up actually hurting those at the bottom. 这就是证明 That's the test. 所以激励因素 并不是反对Rawls的差异原则的 So incentives, that's not a decisive objections against 决定性异议 Rawls's difference principle. 还有两个更有重量的 更难解释的反对观点 But there are two weightier, more difficult objections. 其中之一 One of them 来自于精英理念的拥护者们 comes from defenders of a meritocratic conception. 他们争论说 那么个人的努力呢? The argument that says, what about effort? 只要是努力工作的人 What about people working hard 就应该完全拥有他们获得的一切 having a right to what they earn 因为这是他们应得的 because they've deserved it. 他们为此付出了努力和汗水 They've worked hard for it. 这是来自于个人努力和道德褒贬方面的反对意见 That's the objection from effort and moral desert. 还有另外一种反对观点 Then there's another objection. 来自于自由主义者 That comes from libertarians. 此反对意见旨在于重申古典自由主义中的 And this objection has to do with reasserting the idea 自我所有权 of self-ownership. 把天赋和才能 Doesn't the difference principle, by treating 看作是共同资产的差异原则 our natural talents and endowments as common assets, 难道没有违背自我所有权的理论吗? doesn't that violate the idea that we own ourselves? 现在 让我首先来解决 Now, let me deal first, 从自由主义层面衍生的反对意见 with the objection that comes from the libertarian direction. Milton Friedman(美国经济学家)在他说的书中写道 "自由地选择" Milton Friedman writes, in his book, "Free to Choose," "生活本就是不公平的 "Life is not fair. 相信政府可以纠正自然产生的东西 And it's tempting to believe that government can rectify "也是诱人的 what nature has spawned." 他的观点是 But his answer is, "唯一能够有效解决生活中不平等的方法 "The only way to try to rectify that is to have 就是追求结果的平等" a leveling equality of outcome." 每个人都以相同的起跑点为基础完成这场比赛 Everyone finishing the race at the same point. 那将会是一场灾难 And that would be a disaster. 这是一个容易辩驳的论题 This is an easy argument to answer. Rawls对此做出了回应 And Rawls addresses it. 我认为 公平论中最具有 In one of the most powerful passages, I think, 说服力的章节 of the theory of justice. 就是第17节 It's in Section 17. "自然分配" 在这里他提到了 "The natural distribution", and here he's talking about 自然才能的分配 the natural distribution talents and endowments. "... 它无所谓公平不公平 "... is neither just nor unjust. "人降生于社会的某一特殊地位也说不上不公平 "Nor is it unjust that persons are born into society at some particular position. 这些只是自然的事实 These are simply natural facts. 公平或不公平 只是制度处理这些事实的 What is just and unjust is the way that institutions 方式而已 deal with these facts." 这就是他对推行自由主义政策的经济学家们的回答 That's his answer to libertarian laissez faire economists 就像Milton Friedman说的 "生活是不公平的 要学会克服它" like Milton Friedman who say, "Life is unfair but get over it." 克服它 让我们看看自己是否能做到 至少 Get over it and let's see if we can, at least, 要尽可能把不公平结果所产生的效益最大化 maximize the benefits that flow from it. 其实 像Milton Friedman这样的自由主义经济学家们 But the more powerful libertarian objection to Rawls 对Rawls的理论的反对 并不是自由主义学派中最强烈的 is not libertarian from the libertarian economists like Milton Friedman. 真正强烈的反对观点是有关自我所有权的争论 It's from the argument about self-ownership. Nozick(美国政治哲学家)对此进行了深入探讨 Developed as we saw, in Nozick. 从自我所有权的观点来看 And from that point of view, 是的 这也许会是一件好事 yes, it might be a good thing, 创立早期智力开发项目和公立学校 to create head start programs and public schools 这样每个人都可以接受良好的教育 so that everyone can go to a decent school 然后站在同一起跑线上开始比赛 and start the race at the same starting line. 那应该很不错 That might be good. 然而 如果你向人们征税来创立学校 But if you tax people to create public schools, 如果人们并不是自愿缴税 if you tax people against their will, 你就是在强迫他们 you coerce them. 这是另一种形式的盗窃 It's a form of theft. 如果你以税收的形式 强行拿走Letterman If you take some of Letterman's $31 million, 那3100万美元薪酬的一部分来支持公立学校 tax it away to support public schools, against his will, 那么政府此举与盗取他人财产无异 the state is really doing no better than stealing from him. 这是高压政策 It's coercion. 理由是 我们在拥有天赋和才能的时候 And the reason is, we have to think of ourselves 得想想我们自己 as owning our talents and endowments. 否则 我们就会后退到只会利用别人 胁迫别人的时代 Because otherwise we're back to just using people and coercing people. 这是自由主义的观点 That's the libertarian reply. Rawls对此有何解释呢? What's Rawls's answer to that objection? 他没有直接地对自我所有权这一观点进行辩驳 He doesn't address the idea of self-ownership directly. 但他对差异原则的论证所产生的 But the effect, the moral weight of his argument 道义影响 却是深远的 for the difference principle is, 就其绝对意义而言 也许我们根本就没有自我所有权 maybe we don't own ourselves in that thoroughgoing sense after all. 但是 他说 这并不意味着政府 Now, he says, this doesn't mean that the state 是我的财产所有者 就其意义而言它只能 is an owner in me, in the sense that it can simply 调拨它们而已 commandeer my life. 因为 请记住 我们之所以赞成 Because remember, the first principle 站在无知的面纱的背后来保证公平 we would agree to behind the veil of ignorance, 最重要的原则就是 平等的基本自由原则 is the principle of equal basic liberties. 言论自由 宗教自由 Freedom of speech, religious liberty, 信仰自由等等 freedom of conscience and the like. 所以 自我所有权 So the only respect 能够为之让步的唯一方面 in which the idea of self-ownership must give way, 就在于 当我们开始思考 comes when we're thinking about whether 在市场经济条件下 I own myself in the sense that 自己是否拥有自我所有权 I have a privileged claim 取决于自己是否对天赋才能所带来的成功 on the benefits that come from the exercise of my talents 有优先权 in a market economy. 然后Rawls说 经过再三考虑 我们没有 And Rawls says, on reflection, we don't. 我们可以捍卫权利 We can defend rights. 我们可以尊重个性 We can respect the individual. 我们可以维护尊严 We can uphold human dignity. 即使在没有自我所有权的条件下 Without embracing the idea of self-possession. 实际上 这就是他对自由主义质疑的回答 That, in effect, is his reply to the libertarian. 现在 我将转向讨论他针对 I want to turn now, to his reply to 精英主义拥护者提出的质疑的回答 the defender of a meritocratic conception. 他认为努力是道德缺失的根源 Who invokes effort as the basis of moral desert. 人们认为 只要是以努力工作来提高自己才能的人 People who work hard to develop their talents 就应该得到用自己的才能去实现的利益 deserve the benefits that come from the exercise of their talents. 其实 我们已经知道了Rawls对这个问题的 Well, we've already seen the beginning of Rawls's answer 最初一部分回答 to that question. 这要回到我们在谈到出生顺序时而做的民意测验 And it goes back to that poll we took about birth order. 他的第一个解释是 His first answer is 即使是职业道德 即使是奋斗精神 even the work ethic, even the willingness to strive conscientiously, 都依靠于不同种类的家庭环境 depends on all sorts of family circumstances and 和社会因素以及文化因素的偶然性 我们不能妄自称功 social and cultural contingencies for which we can claim no credit. 你们 你们中的大多数或我们中的大多数 You can't claim credit for the fact that you, 都不能妄自把最先出生这一结果 归功于自己 most of you, most of us, happen to be first in birth order. 而从一些复杂的哲学观点和社会原因来看 And that for some complex psychological and social reasons 那好像有很多方面的因素 比如奋斗 that seems to be associated with striving, 成功 努力 with achieving, with effort. 这是他的回答之一 That's one answer. 还有一个回答 There's a second answer. 那些把希望寄托于努力的人 Those of you who invoke effort, 实际上不是真的认为努力与道德缺失有关系 you don't really believe that moral desert attaches to effort. 以两名建筑工人为例 Take two construction workers. 其中一���很强壮 不费吹灰之力 One is strong and can raise four walls in an hour 就能筑高四堵围墙 without even breaking a sweat. 另外一个建筑工人却又矮又瘦 And another construction worker is small and scrawny. 得花三天的时间 And has to spend three days 才能完成同样的任务 to do the same amount of work. 但没有一个精英制度的拥护者会真的考虑到 No defender of meritocracy is going to look at the effort 这名可怜的建筑工人所做的努力 并为他辩护说 of that weak an scrawny construction worker and say "因此他应该得到更多" "Therefore he deserves to make more". 所以这并不是真的努力 So it isn't really effort. 这是对精英制度主张的 This is the second reply 第二个辩驳 to the meritocratic claim. 努力 并不是真正的 It isn't really effort 精英制度的拥护者们所坚信的 that the defender of meritocracy believes is the moral basis 分配份额的道德基础 of distributive shares. 真正的基础是贡献 It's contribution. 你贡献了多少? How much do you contribute? 但是贡献又把我们带回了关于 But contribution takes us right back to 自然分配的天赋和才能的问题上 不仅仅是努力 our natural talents and abilities. Not just effort. 并且 我们最初能够拥有那些天赋和才能 And it's not our doing, how we came into the possession 也不是我们的功劳 of those talents in the first place. 好吧 假设你们接受了以下这些说法 Alright, suppose you accepted these arguments, 从精英理念的立场来说 努力并不代表一切 that effort isn't everything, that contribution matters, 贡献才起着决定性作用 from the standpoint of the meritocratic conception. 努力甚至不是我们所争取的 That effort, even, isn't our own doing. 那是否意味着 反对是成立的 Does that mean, the objection continues, 也就是说 根据Rawls的说法 does that mean that according to Rawls, 道德缺失与分配公平 毫无关系吗? moral desert has nothing to do with distributive justice? 是的 Well, yes. 追求分配公平并不是道德缺失 Distributive justice is not about moral desert. 关于这点 Rawls向我们介绍了一种 Now, here, Rawls introduces an important 既重要又狡猾的区分方法 and a tricky distinction. 用以区别道德应得 It's between moral desert, on the one hand, 与合法的期望的具体含义 and entitlements to legitimate expectations, on the other. 道德应得与合法的期望究竟有何区别? What is the difference between moral deserts and entitlements? 让我们来看看两种不同的游戏 Consider two different games. 一个关于机会 一个关于技巧 A game of chance and a game of skill. 以关于纯粹的机会的游戏为例 Take a game of pure chance. 假如 我买了马萨诸塞州的彩票 Say, I play the Massachusetts state lottery. 并且中奖了 And my number comes up. 我理应得到我的奖金 I'm entitled to my winnings. 但即使我应该得到奖金 But even though I'm entitled to my winnings, 也没什么意义 因为这只不过是靠运气 there's no sense in which, because it's just a game of luck, 更不可能说 我道德上应该得到这笔奖金 no sense in which, I morally deserve to win in the first place. 这就是合法的预期 That's an entitlement. 现在让我们来看看另一种与彩票完全不同的游戏 Now contrast the lottery with a different kind of game. 竞技比赛 A game of skill. 现在 试想波士顿红袜队(棒球队名)赢了年度冠军联赛 Now, imagine the Boston Red Sox winning the World Series. 他们既然赢了 当然有资格得到奖杯 When they win, they're entitled to the trophy. 但当论及竞技比赛时 有一个问题却常被质疑 But it can be always asked of a game of skill 他们应该获胜吗? did they deserve to win? 在原则上 在相同的比赛规则 It's always possible, in principle, 人们是否有权利获胜 to distinguish what someone's entitled to, 并且这胜利 under the rules, 是否应得的 这些都是能区别出来的 and whether they deserve to win in the first place. 这就是未动标准 即 "道德缺失" That's an antecedent standard. Moral desert. 所以 Rawls认为 尽管分配公平是合法预期 Now, Rawls says distributive justice is not a matter of 但它在其本质上 moral desert though it is a matter of 并不是"合法期望" 的范畴 entitlements to legitimate expectations. 他对此做了如下解释 Here's where he explains it. "一个公平的体系 回答了人们的权利问题 "A just scheme answers to what men are entitles to. 满足了他们建立在社会制度之上的 It satisfies their legitimate expectations as founded upon 合法期望 social institutions. 但是他们有权利得到的东西 But what they are entitled to is not proportional to 与他们的内在价值并不相称" nor dependent upon their intrinsic worth." "调节社会基本结构和规定个人义务和责任的原则 "The principles of justice that regulate the basic structure 并不涉及道德应得 分配的份额 do not mention moral desert and there is no tendency 也不倾向于要与它相称" for distributive shares to correspond to it." Rawls为什么做出了这种区分? Why does make this distinction? 什么才是道德上的危机? What, morally, is at stake? 其中一个道德危机就是我们已经讨论过的 One thing morally at stake is the whole question of effort 关于努力的问题 that we've already discussed. 但是还有第二种是偶然事件 另外一种 But there's a second contingency, a second source of 道德的武断性 它超越了 moral arbitrariness that goes beyond 我们之前所谈到的问题 即我们是否应该认为 the question of whether it's to my credit 得到自然赋予的才能是理所当然的 that I have the talents that enable me to get ahead. 这只是一种偶然性而已 And that has to do with the contingency 我只是碰巧生活在推崇我这种天赋的 that I live in an society that happens to prize 社会中 my talents. 就好像David Letterman The fact that David Letterman 他只是碰巧生活在一个把很多钱和精力 lives in a society that puts a great premium, 都投放在某种让人傻笑的节目上的社会 puts a great value, on a certain type of smirky joke, 他无法选择 that's not his doing. 他只是很幸运 因为他碰巧生活在这样一个社会 He's lucky that he happens to live in such a society. 这是第二种偶然性 But this is a second contingency. 我们不能够选择所生活的环境 This isn't something that we can claim credit for. 即使我认为我的天赋和我的努力 Even if I had sole, unproblematic, claim 是应得的 毋庸置疑的 to my talents and to my effort. 仍然有一个问题需要我去解答 It would still be the case, that the benefits I get 即我依靠自己的天赋所获的利益 from exercising those talents, 是建立在道德的武断性上的 depend on factors that are arbitrary from a moral point of view. 那我的天赋将会从市场经济中得到什么呢 What my talents will reap in a market economy. 它将基于什么呢? What does that depend on? 这个社会的人们又碰巧偏好些什么呢 What other people happen to want or like in this society. 这取决于供求原则 It depends on the law of supply and demand. 不是我能够决定的 That's not my doing. 这当然就不是道德应得的基本原则 It's certainly not the basis for moral desert. 而贡献 也取决于 What counts as contributing 这个社会所推崇的种种素质 depends on the qualities that this or that society happens to prize. 在很大程度上 我们中的大多数人 Most of us are fortunate to possess, in large measure, 都很幸运地拥有 for whatever reason, 这个社会碰巧推崇的种种素质 the qualities that our society happens to prize. 这些素质让我们可以提供 The qualities that enable us to provide 社会之所需 what society wants. 在资本主义社会里 它可以用作企业前进的动力 In a capitalist society it helps to have entrepreneurial drive. 在官僚主义社会 它可以帮助人们更好更顺利地 In bureaucratic society it helps to get on easily and smoothly 与上级相处 with superiors. 在民主党派众多的民主社会 In a mass democratic society 它可以帮助各党派人士在电视里 it helps to look good on television 以简短精炼的讲话击败对手 and to speak in short, superficial sound bites. 在官司成风的社会 In a litigious society, 它可以让你顺利进入法律学校 并且在法学入学考试中取得好成绩 it helps to go to law school and have the talents to do well on LSATs. 但是这些都不是我们能够决定的 But none of this is our doing. 设想 如果我们和我们的才能 Suppose that we, with our talents, 不是出生在这个社会 而是出生在一个科技发达 inhabited not our society, technologically advanced, 官司成风的狩猎社会 highly litigious, but a hunting society, 或者勇士社会 or a warrior society. 我们的才能将会遭遇什么后果? What would become of our talents then? 它们不会给我们太多帮助 They wouldn't get us very far. 毫无疑问我们需要培养其它的才能 No doubt some of us would develop others. 但是我们的价值会减少吗? But would we be less worthy? 我们的道德价值会减少吗? Would we be less virtuous? 如果我们是住在那样一个社会 而不是现在的社会 Would we be less meritorious if we lived in that kind of society 我们就不值得称赞了吗 rather than in ours. Rawls的回答是 不 Rawls's answer is, no. 我们也许会少挣一些钱 We might make less money and properly so. 但是 当我们得到的东西减少时 But while we would be entitled to less, 我们的价值却不会随之减少 we would be no less worthy. 跟我们现在的情况相比 不会有变化 No less deserving than we are now. 重点就在这里 And here's the point. 这样的例子同样适用于这个社会中的其他人 The same could be said of those in our society 他们拥有的社会地位碰巧较低 who happen to hold less prestigious positions, 也拥有很少这个社会碰巧推崇 who happen to have fewer of the talents that our society 天赋与才能 happens to reward. 这就是道德应得和合法期望之间 So here's the moral import of the distinction between 在道德层面上的区别 moral desert and entitlements to legitimate expectations. 我们有权通过自己的努力 We are entitled to the benefits 在比赛制定的规则下 that the rules of the game promise 利用我们的天赋和才能获得成功 for the exercise of our talents. 但是 如果我们认为自己本来就应该拥有 But it's a mistake and a conceit to suppose 那些碰巧被这个社会所推崇的素质的话 that we deserve, in the first place, 这就是一个错误而自负的想法 a society that values the qualities we happen to have in abundance. 我们一直在这里讨论收入和财富的问题 Now we've been talking here about income and wealth, 那么有关机会和荣誉的问题呢? what about opportunities and honors? 各所名校的招生名额分配问题又该如何解释呢? What about the distribution of access of seats in elite colleges and universities? 没错 It's true, 你们所有人 all of you 你们中的大多数人最先出生 努力学习 不懈奋斗 most of you first born, worked hard, strived, 提高你们的才能 才能来到这里 developed your talents, to get here. 但Rawls问 实际上 But Rawls asks, in effect, 当你宣称你应该得到那些利益 what is the moral status of your claim 是因为你拥有别人没有的机会时 to the benefits that attach 你的道德地位又在哪里呢? to the opportunities that you have? 难道大学的招生名额 Are seats in colleges and universities 是为那些应该得到机会的人 a matter, a kind of reward, an honor 准备的一种嘉奖或荣誉 for those who deserve them, 因为他们一直在努力学习吗? because they've worked so hard? 或者 这些名额 这些机会和荣誉 Or, are those seats, those opportunities and honors 以及合法期望 entitlements to legitimate expectations 都依赖于他们对我们自身价值的肯定 that depend for their justification 我们希望学校这么做 on those of us who enjoy them 是因为这是一种很好的 doing so in a way that works to the benefit 能够帮助底层人民的方式吗? of those at the bottom of society? 这就是Rawls的差异原则所提出的问题 That's the question that Rawls's difference principle poses. 这个问题能够放在 It's a question that can be asked 迈克尔·乔丹和David Letterman以及法官朱蒂 of the earnings of Michael Jordan and David Letterman 的薪酬问题上 and Judge Judy. 同样也能放在 But it's also a question that can be asked 名校的招生名额 of opportunities to go to 这一问题上 the top colleges and universities. 这个辩题我们将在下节课 And that's a debate that comes out 讨论平权问题的时候加以阐述 when we turn to the question of affirmative action next time.
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What's the Right Thing to Do - Lecture 7 Lying and Principles
撒谎的教训 A Lesson in Lying 上一次我们 开始尝试领会 Last time we began trying to we began by trying to navigate our way 康德的道德论 through Kant's moral theory. 现在，为了能从根本上 理解康德的道德论 Now, fully to make sense of Kant moral theory in the groundwork 我们要 回答三个问题 requires that we be able to answer three questions. 责任（duty）和自律（autonomy） 是如何联系在一起的？ How can duty and autonomy go together?
回应责任的伟大尊严 从何而来？ What's the great dignity in answering to duty? 也许这两个想法是相悖的：责任和自律 It would seem that these two ideas are opposed: duty and autonomy. 康德的回答是什么？ What's Kant's answer to that? 有没有人愿意 代表康德回答一下？ Need someone here to speak up on Kant's behalf. 他有答案么？ Does he have an answer? 好，请回答 Yes, go ahead, stand up. 康德认为只有在 以责任之名去追求一样东西时 才是自主行为 Kant believes you the only act autonomously when you are pursuing something only the name of duty 而不是因为你 身处的环境 and not because of your own circumstances 比如--你在做一件好事，有道德的事 such as – like you're only doing something good and moral 是出于责任，而不是因为 你自己的个人得失 if you're doing it because of duty and not because something of your own personal gain. 那么为什么这种行为.....你的名字是？ Now why is that acting… what's your name? 我叫Matt My name is Matt. Matt，为什么这种行为 是建立在自由的基础上? 你说到责任 Matt, why is that acting on a freedom? I hear what you're saying about duty? 因为是你自己选择接受 这些道德法则 Because you choose to accept those moral laws in yourself 而不是外界强加于你的 and not brought on from outside upon onto you. 好，很好，因为出于责任而行动 Okay, good. Because acting out of duty 你遵循的道德法则 Yeah. - is following a moral law 是你自己加给自己的 that you impose on yourself. 是你自己加给自己的， That you impose on yourself. 这就是为什么 责任能与自由 相容 That's what makes duty compatible with freedom. - Yeah. 好，Matt你回答的很好，这也是康德的答案。 很好 Okay, that's good Matt. That is Kant's answer. That's great. 所以康德的回答是，我拥有尊严 不在于我遵循了这些法则 Thank you. So, Kant's answer is it is not in so far as I am subject to the law that I have dignity 而是在于 我是这些法则的主人 but rather in so far as with regard to that very same law, I'm the author 我附属于那些法则的理由， 是因为我自愿接受它的 and I am subordinated to that law on that ground that I took it as much as at I took it upon myself. 是我定下那些法则。那就是为什么，对于康德来说 I willed that law. So that's why for Kant 依责任而行，与在自律下自由地行为，都是同一件事情 acting according to duty and acting freely in the sense of autonomously are one and the same. 但这就带来了一个问题：我们到底有多少条道德法则? But that raises the question, how many moral laws are there? 如果说，尊严是受到 我加于自己的法则 所支配的 Because if dignity consists and be governed by a law that I give myself, 那怎么保证我的道德感，和你们的道德感是一样的呢？ what's to guarantee that my conscience will be the same as your conscience? 谁知道康德怎么回答？ Who has Kant's answer to that? Yes? 因为道德法则 不依外部诱人的条件而变化 Because a moral law trend is not contingent upon seductive conditions. 它将超越 人与人间所有的差异 It would transcend all particular differences between people 成为一个普遍法则， and so would be a universal law and 在这个方面看来，只有同一条道德法则，因为它是至高无上的。 in this respect there'd only be one moral law because it would be supreme. 对，非常对，你的名字是？ Right. That's exactly right. What's your name? Kelly Kelly. 康德认为，如果我们都依照我们的道德感 来自由选择， Kelly. So Kelly, Kant believes that if we choose freely out of our own consciences, 那么我们就能保证，我们得出的是同一条道德法则。是的 the moral law we're guarantee to come up with one and the same moral law. -Yes. 因为当我选择的时候，并不是我--Michael Sandel 在选择 And that's because when I choose it's not me, Michael Sandel choosing. 也不是你，Kelly 在为自己选择 It's not you, Kelly choosing for yourself? 那么是谁呢？是谁在选择？ What is it exactly? Who is doing the choosing? 谁是主体？谁是代理人？谁在选择？ Who's the subject? Who is the agent? Who is doing the choosing? 理性？ -- 理性，纯粹的理性 Reason? - Well reason… Pure reason. 纯粹的理性。 你说纯粹的理性，是什么意思？ Pure reason and what you mean by pure reason is what exactly? 纯粹的理性就是，像刚才所说的， Well pure reason is like we were saying before not subject to 我们不会 依附于任何外部环境 any external conditions that may be imposed on that side. 非常好。所以，是理性支配了意志 Good that's' great. So, the reason that does the willing, 当我执行道德法则的时候，是理性主导着我的意志。 the reason that governs my will when I will the moral law 同样是这种的理性，让你为自己选择了 同一条道德法则 is the same reason that operates when you choose the moral law for yourself 这就是为什么 我们能自律地行动，为自己作出选择， and that's why it's possible to act autonomously, to choose for myself, 作为自律的存在，每一个人都能为自己作出选择 for each of us to choose for ourselves as autonomous beings 我们最后都遵循 同一个道德法则 and for all of us to wind up willing the same moral law, 即 定言命令 the categorical imperative. 但这也留下一个大难题 But then there is one big and very difficult question left 即使你们接受了Matt和Kelly 所说的 even if you accept everything that Matt and Kelly had said so far. 定言命令怎么成为可能呢？ How is a categorical imperative possible? 道德怎么成为可能呢？为了回答这个问题 How is morality possible? To answer that question, 康德说，我们要做出一个区分 Kant said we need to make a distinction. 我们要区分 两个立脚点 We need to make a distinction between two standpoints, 这两个立脚点可以让我们理解 我们的日常经验 two standpoints from which we can make sense of our experience. 我们试着解释一下 这两个立脚点的意思 Let me try to explain what he means by these two standpoints. 作为一个经验客体，我属于这个感官世界 As an object of experience, I belong to the sensible world. 我的行为是由自然法则 所决定的 There my actions are determined by the laws of nature 由因果规律 所决定的 and by the regularities of cause and effect. 但作为一个经验主体，我居住在一个智思世界 But as a subject of experience, I inhabit an intelligible world here 我独立于自然法则之外，能够实现自律 being independent of the laws of nature I am capable of autonomy, 我能根据 我给自己制定的法则 来行事 capable of acting according to a law I give myself. 康德说 “只有站在第二个立脚点上（指智思世界），我才能认为我自己是自由的。 Now Kant says that, "Only from this second standpoint can I regard myself as free, 因为不受 感官世界里的外界因素 决定，才是自由” for to be independent of determination by causes in the sensible world is to be free." 如果我是至善的经验主义者，正如功利主义者假设的一样 If I were holy and empirical being as the utilitarian assume, 如果我只是至善的，受我的感官支配 if I were a being holy and only subject to the deliverances of my senses, 疼痛、快乐、饥饿、饥渴、欲望 pain and pleasure and hunger and thirst and appetite, 如果这就是符合仁道，我们就不可能得到自由 if that's all there were to humanity, we wouldn't be capable of freedom, 康德论证道，因为这样的话，每个意志的行使都将 Kant reasons because in that case every exercise of will 受制于 我们对某些客体的欲望 would be conditioned by the desire for some object. 这样的话，我们的选择就会各异，都受到外部目的而支配 In that case all choice would be heteronomous choice governed by the pursued of some external end. “当我们认为。我们是自由的时候” "When we think of ourselves as free, " 康德曾写道，“我们把自己转到这个智思世界，成为了其中的一员， 并认识到了意志的自主性” Kant writes, "we transfer ourselves into the intelligible world as members and recognize the autonomy of the will." 以上就是那两个立脚点 That's the idea of the two standpoints. 那么，定言命令是 如何成为可能的呢？ So how are categorical imperatives possible? 只因 自由让我成为了智思世界的一员. Only because the idea of freedom makes me a member of an intelligible world. 康德承认，我们不仅仅是理性的存在 Now Kant admits we aren't only rational beings. 我们并不仅仅只是 居住在这个智思世界，这个自由的王国。 We don't only inhabit the intelligible world, the realm of freedom. 如果是的话 -- 那么我们所有的行为 If we did -- if we did, then all of our actions 将会始终如一地，符合意志的自律 would invariably accord with the autonomy of the will. 但恰恰因为 我们同时处于两个立脚点中 But precisely because we inhabit simultaneously the two standpoints, 两个领域中---自由的领域 和 需求的领域 the two realms, the realm of freedom and the realm of necessity 恰恰是因为我们处在两个领域中， precisely because we inhabit both realms, 我们做的和我们应该做的，是和应该， 两者之间就总会有 潜在的鸿沟。 there is always potentially a gap between what we do and what we ought to do, between is and ought. 这个观点用另一个方式来说，也就是 Another way of putting this point and this is the point with which 康德在《道德的形而上学基础》里总结：道德不是经验主义 Kant concludes the groundwork, morality is not empirical. 不管你在世界上看到了什么，不管你通过科学发现了什么 Whatever you see in the world, whatever you discover through science 这些都不能决定 道德问题 can't decide moral questions. 道德和经验主义世界，存在着相当一段距离 Morality stands at a certain distance from the world, from the empirical world. 这也是为什么 从科学无法得出道德事实 And that's why no science could deliver moral truth. 现在我想用一个可能是最难的例子，来验证一下康德的道德论 Now I want to test Kant's moral theory with the hardest possible case, 这是他提出的一个案例-- “门口的谋杀者” a case that he raises, the case of the murderer at the door. 康德认为，说谎是错误的。我们都知道这点。 Kant says that lying is wrong. We all know that. 我们也讨论过为什么。说谎和定言命令之间不一致。 We've discussed why. Lying is at odds with the categorical imperative. 法国哲学家 本杰明·康斯坦特 写了一篇文章 A French Philosopher, Benjamin Constant wrote an article 来回应《道德的形而上学基础》，他写道 responding to the groundwork where he said, “这个设想是错的。不可能是对的。 "This absolute probation on lying is wrong. It can't be right. 如果有一个杀手来到你的门前，寻找你的朋友 What if a murderer came to your door looking for your friend 而这位朋友正躲在你家里 who was hiding in your house? 杀手直截了当的问你，“你的朋友在你家么” And the murderer asked you point blank, "Is your friend in your house?" 康斯坦特说 “如果在这样的情况中，还要说真话 Constant says, "It would be crazy to say that the moral thing to do 那真是疯了” in that case is to tell the truth." 康斯坦特认为， 杀手不应该 知道真相 Constant says the murderer certainly doesn't deserve the truth 康德回复道 and Kant wrote to reply. 他坚持他的原则，对杀手 撒谎也是错误的 And Kant stuck by his principle that lying even to the murderer at the door is wrong. 错误的原因是，他说 And the reason it's wrong, he said is 一旦你开始考虑事情的后果，开了个例外，不遵循定言命令 once you start taking consequences into account to carve out exceptions to the categorical imperative, 那么，你就已经放弃了 整个道德标准 you've given up the whole moral framework. 你已经成为了一个结果论者，或者是功利主义者 You've become a consequentialist or maybe a rule utilitarian. 但是你们中的大部分人，还有康德的大部分读者， But most of you and most to our Kant's readers think 认为这个答案，有些奇怪和不可能 there's something odd and impossible about this answer. 124 我想试着 在这一点上为康德辩护 I would like to try to defend Kant on this point 然后看看 你们觉得我的辩护是否合理 and then I want to see whether you think that my defense is plausible, 我想根据 他对道德的解释的精神，来作出辩护。 and I would want to defend him within the spirit of his own account of morality. 想象一下，有个人来到你的门前。 Imagine that someone comes to your door. 杀手问了你这个问题 You were asked that question by this murder. 而你的朋友正藏在你家 You are hiding your friend. 有没有一种方式，可以不对杀手说谎 Is there a way that you could avoid telling a lie 同时不出卖你的朋友？ without selling out your friend? 你们中有人想到 要怎么说? Does anyone have an idea of how you might be able to do that? 好， 请站起来回答 Yes? Stand up. 我会说，如果一开始，我真的把我的朋友藏在我家， I was just going to say if I were to let my friend in my house to hide in the first place, 我会先和他们 定好计划 I'd probably make a plan with them 我会说 “嘿 等下我会告诉杀手你在这儿，你赶紧逃吧” so I'd be like, "Hey I'll tell the murderer you're here, but escape, " 这是其中的一个选择 and that's one of the options mentioned. 我不确定 这是不是康德式的选择。你还是在撒谎。 But I'm not sure that's a Kantian option. You're still lying though. 不。因为他当时是在屋子里，但是之后不会在（我叫他逃跑） No. Because he's in the house but he won't be. 我明白了。 好 很好，还有人有想法么 Oh I see. All right, good enough. One more try. 你说，我不知道他在哪 就好 If you just say you don't know where he is 因为他也许不在衣柜里 because he might not be locked in the closet. 他可能离开了衣柜。你真的不知道他在哪。 He might have left the closet. You have no clue where he could be. 所以，我说我不知道他在哪，算不上说谎 So you would say, I don't know which wouldn't actually be a lie 因为你在那个时候，不是在看着衣柜。 because you weren't at that very moment looking in the closet. 对，所以严格来说，你说的是真话 Exactly. -So it would be strictly speaking true. 对 Yes. 但也有可能带有欺骗性，误导性。但仍然是真话 And yet possibly deceiving, misleading. -But still true. 你的名字是？约翰 What's your name? -John. 约翰。约翰也许意识到了某些东西 John. All right, John has... now John may be on to something. 约翰，你给我们大家提供了一个很机智的托词 John you're really offering us the option of a clever evasion 它严格上来说 是真话 that is strictly speaking true. 这就给我们带来了一个问题， This raises the question 完全的谎言和误导的真相 这两者在道德上 有区别么？ whether there is a moral difference between an outright lie and a misleading truth. 从康德的观点看来，一个谎言和一个误导的真相，有天壤之别 From Kant's point of view there actually is a world of difference between a lie and a misleading truth. 为什么？ 即使这两者带来的结果是一样的？ Why is that even though both might have the same consequences? 记得，康德并不是 把 道德 建立在结果之上的 But then remember Kant doesn't base morality on consequences. 他认为 道德 就是对道德法则的遵守 He bases it on formal adherence to the moral law. 有时候，在日常生活中，我们会破例地使用"善意的谎言" Now, sometimes in ordinary life we make exceptions for the general rule against lying with the white lie. 什么是善意的谎言？ What is a white lie? 它是一种谎言来用来... 比如，为了避免伤害别人的感情 It's a lie to make...you're well to avoid hurting someone's feelings for example. 它是一种我们用它带来的结果来让它成为合理解释的谎言 It's a lie that we think of as justified by the consequences. 康德不能容忍善意的谎言，但也许他能接受 Now Kant could not endorse a white lie but perhaps he could endorse 一个误导的真话 a misleading truth. 假如 某个人送给你一条领带 作为一份礼物。你打开了那个盒子 Supposed someone gives you a tie, as a gift, and you open the box 那个领带难看的不得了，你会说什么？ 谢谢 and it's just awful. What do you say? Thank you. 你可以说谢谢你 You could say thank you. 但他们等着你能说说 你觉得这条领带怎样，或者 他们就直接问你 But they're waiting to see what you think of it or they ask you “你觉得它怎么样？” what do you think of it? 你可以说一个善意的谎言，说 它很好看 You could tell a white lie and say it's beautiful. 但从康德看来，这是不允许的 But that wouldn't be permissible from Kant's point of view. 你可以不说善意的谎言，而说 误导的真话 Could you say not a white lie but a misleading truth, 你打开盒子说，“我从没见过 这样的领带” you open the box and you say, "I've never seen a tie like that before. “谢谢” 你应该没这样说过吧 Thank you." You shouldn't have. 好 That's good. 你们能举一个当代政治领导人.....你吗？ Can you think of a contemporary political leader who engaged...you can? 你想到了谁？ Who are you thinking of? 还记得 克林顿的莱温斯基丑闻案件中，那些否认的措辞么？ You remember the whole carefully worded denials in the Monica Lewinsky affair of Bill Clinton. 那些否认的措辞 成为了弹劾听证会上 Now, those denials actually became the subject of very explicit debate 双方辩论的主题 in argument during the impeachment hearings. 我们来看一下 克林顿总统的下面这段摘录 Take a look at the following excerpts from Bill Clinton. 谎言 与 经过谨慎推敲后的、误导的真话， Is there something do you think morally at stake in the distinction 是否在道德上有区别？ between a lie and a misleading carefully couched truth? “我想对美国人民 说一件事情 I want to say one thing to the American people. 我想让你听我说。我要再次声明 I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again. 我和那位莱温斯基小姐之间，并没有建立起性关系 I did not have sexual relations with that woman Miss Lewinsky. 我没有让任何人去撒谎，一次也没有。这些指控是假的。” I never told anybody to lie not a single time, never. These allegations are false. “当他说，他没有和那个女人做爱，他对美国人民撒谎了么？” Did he lie to the American people when he said I never had sex with that woman? 你要知道，他不认为他有，是因为... You know, he doesn't believe he did and because of the … 可是他没有解释 Well he didn't explain it. 他解释了，议员阁下。他的确解释了 He did explain that, explain congressman. 他告诉美国人民，他没有建立起性关系 What he said was, to the American people, that he did not have sexual relations 议员阁下，我知道你不会喜欢我这么说 and I understand you're not going to like this congressman 因为你会把它看成是 一个微不足道的、回避性的回答。 because you will see it as a hair-splitting evasive answer. 但在他的心里，他的定义是不... But in his own mind his definition was not... 好吧，我明白了这一论点。 好吧。 Okay, I understand that argument. -Okay. 好的。以上就是这个争论 All right, so there you have the exchange . 你可能觉得，这只是 一名弹劾克林顿的共和党 Now at the time, you may have thought this was just a legalistic hair-splitting exchange 与 克林顿的辩护律师之间，对一些法律上的细节 的一场争论 between a Republican who wanted to impeach Clinton and a lawyer who is trying to defend him. 但根据康德，你觉得 But now in the light of Kant, do you think there is something 谎言和托词（让人误导的真话）之间，在道德上有什么区别吗？ morally at stake in the distinction between a lie and an evasion , a true but misleading statement? 我想听听 康德维护者 I'd like to hear from defenders of Kant. 那些认为有区别的。准备好为康德辩护了吗？ People who think there is a distinction. Are you ready to defend Kant? 我认为，当你尝试说 撒谎和误导性的真话是同一个的东西时 Well I think when you try to say that lying and misleading truths are the same thing; 你是立足于结果主义的论点，即两者的结果都是一样的 you're basing it on consequentialist argument which is that they achieve the same thing. 但关键点在于，如果你说的是（误导性的）真话 But the fact to the matter is you told the truth 你预想大家都会相信你说的话（它也确实是真的） and you intended that people would believe what you are saying, which was the truth, 这和 说谎话，然后 which means it is not morally the same 想大家都会相信这些话是真的（但事实上是假的）， 两者是在道德上是不同的 as telling a lie and intending that they believe it is the truth even though it is not true. 好的。你叫什么名字？ -Diana。 Good. What's your name? -Diana. Diana说，康德 提到一点 So Diana says that Kant has a point here and 这一点可能还能帮到 克林顿....大家怎么看？ it's a point that might even come to the aid of Bill Clinton and that is … well what about that? 那里有人想发表意见 There's someone over here. 对于康德，动机是关键。因此，如果你捐东西给其他人 For Kant motivation is key, so if you give to someone 是为了 让你觉得自己是好人 because primarily you want to feel good about yourself 康德会说，这没有道德的价值。而这里，动机是一样的。 Kant would say that has no moral worth. Well with this, the motivation is the same. 讲 误导性的真话，你是为了欺骗，想让其他人不知道。 It's to sort of mislead someone, it's to lie, it's to sort of throw them off the track 动机是一样的。因此，两者没有什么区别。 and the motivation is the same. So there should be no difference. 好。因此，Diana，这里的动机是不同的？ Okay, good. So here isn't the motive the same Diana? 你是怎么看：两种情况下的动机都是一样的 What do you say to this argument that well the motive is the same in both cases 他企图或至少希望 追杀者会被误导？ there is the attempt or at least the hope that one's pursuer will be misled? 你是可以去那样想。但我认为事实是 Well that – you could look it that way but I think that the fact is 你的直接动机是，想让他们相信你。 that your immediate motive is that they should believe you. 这最终结果是，他们可能被欺骗 The ultimate consequence of that is that they might be deceived 而找不出 发生了什么事。 and not find out what was going on. 但你的直接动机是，他们应该相信你 But that your immediate motive is that they should believe you 因为你说的是实话 because you're telling the truth. 我可以帮一下？ 当然可以。 May I help a little? -Sure. 帮你和康德。你为什么不说...抱歉，你叫什么名字？ You and Kant. Why don't you say... and what's your name, I'm sorry? Wesley。 Wesley. 你为什么不告诉Wesley， Why don't you say to Wesley 你说两种情况下的动机都是误导，其实并不完全是这样子的。 it's not exactly the case that the motive in both cases is to mislead? 他们希望，他们希望别人会被误导 They're hoping, they're hoping that the person will be misled by the statement “我不知道他们在哪” 或 “我从未有过性关系。” "I don't know where they are" or "I never had sexual relations." 你希望他们会被误导， You're hoping that they will be misled 当在你说实话时，你的动机是误导 but in the case where you're telling the truth, you're motive is to mislead 但同时 你是在说真话，在遵循着 道德法则 while at the same time telling the truth and honoring the moral law 没有逾越 定言命令 and staying within the bounds of the categorical imperative. 我认为，康德的答案会是....... I think Kant's answer would be.... Diana, yes? -Yes. 你赞成？是的 You like that? -I do. 好的。我认为康德的答案是，不同于谬误 Okay. So I think Kant's answer would be unlike a falsehood, 不同于谎言，误导的真相 遵守了 责任 unlike a lie, a misleading truth pays a certain homage to duty. 因为它忠于责任，所以 哪怕它是托词，也让它变得合理化 And the homage it pays to duty is what justifies that the work of, even the work of the evasion. Diana，你赞同吗？好 Diana, yes you like? Okay. 所以，谨慎的托词 也尊重了 道德法则的尊严 And so there is something, some element of respect for the dignity of the moral law in the careful evasion 因为克林顿可以直接撒谎，但他却没有。 because Clinton could have told an outright lie but he didn't. 所以，康德对此的看法是，谨慎的措辞，但得是真实的托词 And so I think Kant's insight here is in the carefully couched but true evasion. 对道德法则 尊严 的尊重，在谎言 那里是没有的 There is a kind of homage to the dignity of the moral law that is not present in the outright lie Wesley，对道德法则尊严的尊重 是动机的一部分。 它是动机的一部分。 and that, Wesley, is part of the motive. It's part of the motive. 是的，我是希望他会被误导。 Yes, I hope he will be misled. 我是希望杀手走出马路 或者去商场 找我的朋友 I hope the murderer will run down the road or go to the mall looking for my friend 而不是在衣柜里。我是希望起到这样的效果 instead at the closet. I hope that will be the effect. 我无法控制（凶手会这样做）。我无法控制它的后果。 I can't control that. I can't control the consequences. 我可以控制的是，站在一边，光耀着我追求的目的 But what I can control is standing by and honoring however I pursue the ends, 我希望会事情发展的结果 与尊重道德法则相符 I hope will unfold to do so in a way that is consistent with respect for the moral law. 我觉得 Wesley没有完全被说服。但至少这引出了... Wesley, I don't think, is entirely persuaded but at least this brings out, 这次的讨论引出了一些重要的 this discussion brings out some of what it's at stake, 康德的定言命令的一些关键点 what's morally at stake in Kant's notion of the categorical imperative. “自由，只有为了自由才能被限制” ---- John Rawls 上次，我们谈到了 康德的定言命令 Last time we talked about Kant's categorical imperative 我们认为，我们思考了 怎么用定言命令来解释 说谎的例子 and we considered the way he applied the idea of the categorical imperative to the case of lying. 我想简略地谈一下，康德的道德理论的其他应用 I want to turn briefly to one other application of Kant's moral theory 这就是他的政治理论。 and that's his political theory. 康德说，公正的法律产生于某种社会契约 Now Kant says that just laws arise from a certain kind of social contract. 但是，他所说的契约，是一个很特别的、自然存在的契约 But this contract he tells us is of an exceptional nature. 这个契约的特别之处在于，它不是一个真正的契约 What makes the contract exceptional is that it is not an actual contract 它不用 把大家聚集在一起，试图讨论出 它里面应该有什么条文 that happens when people come together and try to figure out what the constitution should be. 康德指出，这个能 引申出正义的契约 Kant points out that the contract that generates justice 是一个理性的想法 is what he calls an idea of reason. 它不是真的一群男人和女人举在一起，讨论里面的条文 It's not an actual contract among actual men and women gathered in a constitutional convention. 为什么不呢？ Why not? ��德的原因是，举在一起、讨论条文的男人和女人 I think Kant's reason is that actual men and women gathered in real constitutional convention 会有不同的利益、价值观、目标， would have different interests, values, aims, 不同的谈判势力 and it would also be differences of bargaining power 不同的知识差异 and differences of knowledge among them. 所以，他们商议出来的法律 And so the laws that would result from their deliberations 不一定是公正的，不一定符合公正的原则 wouldn't necessarily be just, wouldn't necessarily conform to principles of right 而只是反映了不同的谈判势力，不同的利益 ， but would simply reflect the differences a bargaining power, the special interests 对法律或政治的不同了解 the fact that some might know more than others about law or about politics. 所以康德说，“引申出公正的原则的契约，只是理性的一个想法 So Kant says, "A contract that generates principles of right is merely an idea of reason 但它有勿庸置疑的可行性。因为它可以迫使 but it has undoubted practical reality because it can oblige 每一个立法者在这样一个框架，使得制定的法律 every legislator to frame his laws in such a way that 能代表全民族的意志“ they could have been produced by the united will of the whole nation." 因此，康德是一个契约论者， So Kant is a contractarian, 但他不把 法律的起源或公正，追溯到任何一份实际的社会契约。 but he doesn't trace the origin or the rightness of law to any actual social contract. 这引出了一个明显的问题。 This contrives to an obvious question. 这个假定的契约，一个从来没有的契约，其道德力量是什么? What is the moral force of a hypothetical contract, a contract that never happened? 这就是我们今天的问题。而为了研究这个问题 That's the question we take up today but in order to investigate it, 我们需要转向一位现代哲学家 John Rawls， 他在他的《正义论》一书中， we need to turn to a modern philosopher, John Rawls, who worked out in his book, A Theory of Justice, 非常详细的解释了，作为公正的基础的 一个假定的协议 in great detail and account of a hypothetical agreement as the basis for justice. Rawls的正义理论 和康德的理论，有两个重要方面是一致的。 Rawls' theory of justice in broad outline is parallel to Kant's in two important respects. 像康德，Rawls 是一个功利主义的批评者。 Like Kant, Rawls was a critic of utilitarianism. “每个人拥有 公正基础上的 不可侵犯性 ” "Each person possesses an inviolability founded on justice, " Rawls写道：“即使是整个社会福利，也不能凌驾于它的上面。 Rawls' writes, "that even the welfare of society as a whole cannot override. 我们的权利受公正保护，不屈从于政治谈判 The rights secured by justice are not subject to political bargaining 或社会利益的小算盘“ or to the calculus of social interests." 第二个一致的方面是， The second respect in which Rawls' theory follows Kant's is on the idea that 公正的原则，可以从一个假设的社会契约延伸出来。 principles of justice properly understood can be derived from a hypothetical social contract. 这个契约不是实际的。 Not an actual one. 而Rawls 提出了一个叫“无知的面纱”的词，来解释他的理论 And Rawls works this out in fascinating detail with the device of what he calls the "veil of ignorance". 实现权利的方式...那些我们必须尊重的基本权利， The way to arrive at the rights... the basic rights that we must respect, 权利和义务的基本框架.... 就是去想象 the basic framework of rights and duties is to imagine that 我们聚在一起，在不知道我们每个人的具体情况之下 we were gathered together trying to choose the principles to govern our collective lives 去试图选择 支配我们的集体生活的原则 without knowing certain important particular fact about ourselves. 这就是“无知的面纱” That's the idea of the veil of ignorance. 如果我们聚在一起，就像大家来这里听课一样， Now what would happen if we gather together just as we are here 然后试图得出正义的原则，来统治我们的集体生活，这会是怎样？ and try to come up with principles of justice to govern our collective life? 就会出现反映不同利益的、不一致的提案， There would be a cacophony of proposals of suggestions reflecting people's different interests, 有的强，有的弱， some are strong, some are weak, 有的有钱，有的贫穷。 some are rich, some are poor. 因此，Rawls说，想像一下，我们一开始就 地位平等 So Rawls says, imagine instead that we are gathered in an original position of equality 而保证这一平等的，就是“无知的面纱” and what assures the equality is the veil of ignorance. 想象一下，我们都戴着无知的面纱 Imagine that we are all behind a veil of ignorance which temporarily abstracts from or brackets, 把我们都隐藏起来 hides from us who in particular we are. 我们的种族，阶级，社会地位，实力，弱点， Our race, our class, our place in society, our strengths, our weaknesses, 不管是健康或不健康的，只有这样，Rawls说 whether we're healthy or unhealthy, then and only then Rawls says, 我们一致同意的原则 就会是公正的 the principles we would agree to would be principles of justice. 这是 假设的契约 的原理 That's how the hypothetical contract works. 这个假设的协议，其道德力量是什么呢？ What is the moral force of this kind of hypothetical agreement? 它比真正的协议、真正的社会契约，是更强还是更弱？ Is it stronger or weaker than a real agreement, an actual social contract? 为了回答这个问题，我们要认真看看 实际契约的道德力量 In order to answer that question, we have to look hard at the moral force of actual contracts. 这里有两个问题。 There are really two questions here. 其中一个，实际契约是怎样约束我，或使我负有义务吗？ One of them is how do actual contracts bind me or obligate me? 这是问题一 Question number one. 问题二：现实生活中的实际契约，是怎么使得里面的条文是公正的？ And question number two, how do actual real life contracts justify the terms that they produce? 如果你想想看，这与Rawls和康德是一致的， If you think about it and this is in line with Rawls and Kant, 第二个问题的答案，实际契约 是怎么使得里面的条文是公正的？ the answer to the second question, how do actual contracts justify the terms that they produce, 答案是 他们没有 the answer is they don't. 至少不是 由他们自己完成的 At least not on their own. 实际契约不是 能自给自足的 道德工具 Actual contracts are not self-sufficient moral instruments of any actual contract or agreement. 你总是可以问，他们一致同意的（条文）公平吗？ It can always be asked, is it fair what they agreed to? 现实是，该协议从来不保证 协议的公平性 The fact of the agreement never guarantees the fairness of the agreement 看看我们的制宪会议 就知道了 and we know this by looking at our own constitutional convention. 宪法里 允许奴隶制存在。 It produced a constitution that permitted slavery to persist. 以前就这样获得了通过。这是一个真实的契约。 It was agreed to. It was an actual contract 但是，这并不证明 他们所同意的法律 都是正义的。 but that doesn't establish that the laws agreed to all of them were just. 那么，实际契约的道德力量是什么？ Well then what is the moral force of actual contracts? 在某种程度上，他们约束我们，他们通过两个方式约束我们 To the extent that they bind us, they obligate in two ways. 假设，也许举一个例子会有帮助 Suppose, maybe here it would help to take an example. 我们达成一项协议，一个商业协议。 We make an agreement, a commercial agreement. 我答应付给你100元，如果你去捕100只龙虾 给我 I promise to pay you $100 if you will go harvest and bring to me 100 lobsters. 我们的交易就达成 We make a deal. 你出去捕龙虾，然后拿给我。 You go out and harvest them and bring them to me. 我把龙虾吃掉，还分一些给我的朋友，然后我不付钱。 I eat the lobsters, served them to my friends, and then I don't pay. 接着你说，“但是你有责任。” And you say, "But you're obligated." 而我说，“为什么？” 你会怎么说？ “我们签了协议啊” And I say, "Why?" What do you say? "Well we had a deal." ”你受惠了。你吃了所有的龙虾。“ And you benefited. You ate all those lobsters. 这是一个非常有力的论据。 Well that's a pretty strong argument. 这是一个论据。我从你的劳动中获益 It's an argument that depends though and the fact that I benefited from your labor 所以，有些情况 契约约束我们，因为它是我们互惠互利的工具。 So, contracts sometimes bind us in so far as they are instruments of mutual benefit. 我吃了龙虾。你帮我捕了这些龙虾，我欠你100元。 I ate the lobsters. I owe you the $100 for having gathered them. 但是，假设 现在有另外一个案件。我们做成了这笔交易， But suppose, now take a second case. We make this deal, 你捕100只龙虾，我会付100元。而两分钟只后， I'll pay you $100 for 100 lobsters and two minutes later, 你还没做任何事情，我给你回电话，说 before you've gone to any work I call you back and say ”我改变主意了。“现在，大家都没有获益。 I've changed my mind. Now, there's no benefit. 你还没有开始工作，因此没有任何互惠的交换。 There's no work on your part so there's no element of reciprocal exchange. 在这种情况下，鉴于我们已经达成协议，我还欠你钱吗？ What about in that case, do I still owe you merely in virtue of the fact that we had an agreement? 谁赞同，是的，我还欠你？为什么？好，站起来。 Who says those of you who say, yes, I still owe you? Why? Okay, stand up. 为什么我欠你钱？我两分钟之后就叫你回来 Why do I owe you? I called you back after two minutes. 你有没有做任何工作。 You haven't done any work. 我觉得，我在草拟合同这件事上 花了时间和精力 I think I spent the time and effort in drafting this contract with you 还有情感上的预期，我都做了这些工作。 and also have emotional expectation that I go through the work. 所以你花了时间来起草合同，但我们很快就完成了。 So you took time to draft the contract but we did it very quickly. 我们只是在电话里聊。 We just chatted on the phone. 但 这不是一个正式的合同。 That wouldn't be a formal form of contract though. 那么我把它传真你吧。只用一分钟。 Well I faxed at you. It only took a minute. 只要里面涉及了任何努力，我会说，那么合同就是有效的。 As long as any effort is involved, I would say that the contract is valid then. 它应该生效。 It should take effect. 为什么？... 你可以提出道义上的哪一点，来要求我负上义务？ But why? What was...what morally can you point to that obligates me? 我承认 我之前表示同意了。 但你没有去任何工作。我没有得到任何好处。 I admit that I agreed but you didn't go to any work. I didn't enjoy any benefit. 因为他在精神上 完成了捕龙虾的工作。 Because one might mentally go through all the work of harvesting the lobsters. 你在精神上，完成了捕龙虾的工作。 You mentally went through the work of harvesting the lobsters. 这没什么啊。不是吗？ That's nothing. Is it? Is not much? 仅仅想象自己去捉龙虾，就值100元吗？ Is it worth $100 that you were imaginingyourself going and collecting lobsters? 也许不值100元，但它对某些人来说，可能是有一定价值的。 It may not worth $100, but it may worth something to some people. 好吧，我为此给你 1块钱。 ——那么你仍然在指出... All right, I’ll give you a buck for that. But what I – so you’re still pointing... 有趣的是，你仍然指着 契约的互惠性 这个方面 what’s interesting you’re still pointing to the reciprocal dimension of contracts. 你做了 或者想象你去做了，或者期待着，去做某件可能发生的事 You did or imagined that you did or lookedforward to doing something that might be had. 举个例子，两个人决定结婚。 2分钟之后，其中一人突然打电话给另一人，说 For example two people agreed to be married and one suddenly calls the other in two minutes say, “我改变主意了” I’ve changed my mind, 双方是否都有义务 遵守这个契约呢？ does the contract have obligation on both sides? 这时，还没有一方付出任何努力，也没有一方已经受益。 Nobody has done any work or nobody has benefited yet. 嗯，我想回答 “不是的” Well I'm tempted to say no. 好吧 Fine. 好了，你叫什么名字？-Julian All, right. What’s your name?-Julian. 谢谢你，Julian。好的，很好 Thank you Julian. All right, that was good. 现在，有人同意Julian的意见，认为我仍然要付钱吗？ Now is there anyone who has who agrees with Julian that I still owe the money? 出于任何其他理由……请讲，请站起来 For any other reason now I have …go ahead, stand up. 我认为，如果你收回承诺，好像贬低了契约制度 I think if you back out it sort of cheapens the institution of contracts. 很好，但为什么？为什么会贬低？ Good but why? Why does it? 我想 这有点像康德式的观点， Well I think is kind of Kantian, but there’s almost... 能把契约签了，这就有着某种内在的价值 there’s a certain intrinsic value in being able to make contracts and having, you know, 你知道 人们会期望你履行契约 knowing people will expect that you'll go through with that. 很好，……它会贬低整个契约的概念 Good, there is some...it would cheapen the whole idea of contracts 这种概念关系到 在我自己这方面履行的义务。是这样吗？ which has to do with taking in obligation on myself. Is that the idea? 嗯，我认为 是的。 Yeah, I think so. 你叫什么？-Adam What’s your name?-Adam. 所以Adam的论点不在于互惠 或者互相交换 So Adam points instead not to any reciprocal benefit or mutual exchange 而只是协议本身 but to the mere fact of the agreement itself. 我们看到了，真实的契约产生义务 有两种不同的方式。 We see here there are really two different ways in which actual contracts generate obligations. 其一，主动同意是一种自愿行为，它指向…… One has to do with the active consent as a voluntary act and it points... Adam 说这是康德式的观点，我认为他是对的 Adam said this was a Kantian idea and I think he is right 因为 它表明了 自律的理念 because it points to the ideal of autonomy. 当我签订契约时，我就 自己给自己负上了义务 When I make a contract, the obligation is one that is self-imposed 这包含着某种道德力量，它独立于其他的顾虑 and that carries a certain moral weight, independent of other considerations. 契约的道德力量的 第二个要素 And then there’s a second element of the moral force of contract arguments 它涉及这种观念：真实的契约是 互惠互利的工具， which has to do with the sense in which actual contracts are instruments of mutual benefit 这表明了 互惠的理念 and this points to ward the ideal of reciprocity 义务由此产生， I can have an obligation to you 只要你为我做了事情，我对你就有义务 in so far that obligation can arise, as you do something for me. 当我们审视 真实契约的道德力量 和 道德局限时 Now, when investigating the moral force and also the moral limits of actual contracts 我想指出一个 关于真实契约的道德局限的论点 and here I would like to advance an argument about the moral limits of actual contracts 现在我们知道了，当人们聚到一起说 now that we know what moral ingredients do the work “如果你做这个，我就做那个”的时候，是哪些道德因素在起作用 when people come together and say, “I will do this if you do that.” 我首先先说，两个人同意进行某种交易 I would like to argue first that the fact that 这并不能说明 他们的协议条款 就是是公平的 two people agreed to some exchange does not mean that the terms of their agreement are fair. 我的两个儿子 小时候曾经收集棒球卡，然后互相交换。 When my two sons were young they collected baseball cards and traded them. 他们的年龄相差两岁 And one was...there was a two-year aged...there is a two-year aged difference between them 所以我必须对他们的交易 定下一个规矩 and so I had to institute a rule about the trades that 只有得到我的批准，才能成交。这其中的原因显而易见 no trade was complete until I had approved it and the reason is obvious. 哥哥比弟弟 更清楚那些卡片的价值 The older one knew more about the value of these cards 因此，他会占弟弟的便宜 and so would take advantage of the younger one. 所以我必须审查一遍，以确保他们的交易是公平的 So that’s why I had to review it to make sure that the agreements were fair. 你可能会说：“啊，这是家长式的统治。” Now you may say, “Well this is paternalism.” 这当然是。这也是家长式统治的意义所在，对于这类事情。 Of course it was. That’s what paternalism is for that kind of thing. 那么，这说明了什么？ So what does this show? 这个棒球卡的例子说明什么？ What is the baseball cards example show? 达成协议不足以确定 条款的公平性 The fact of an agreement is not sufficient to establish the fairness of the terms. 几年前，我在报纸上读到一个案例：芝加哥有个上了年纪的寡妇 I read some years ago of a case in Chicago there was an elderly widow, 一个84岁的寡妇，名叫Rose。她遇到一个麻烦： 她的公寓里的马桶漏水。 an 84-year-old widow named Rose who had a problem in her apartment with a leaky toilet 于是，她和一个黑心的承包商 签订了个契约。 and she signed a contract with an unscrupulous contractor, 对方提出以5万美元的价格，修理她那个漏水的马桶 who offered to repair her leaky toilet in exchange for $50, 000. 但她也同意了。她���智健全，也许过于天真 But she had agreed she was of sound mind, maybe terribly naive 不熟悉 管道工的价格 and unfamiliar with the price of plumbing, 她签订了这个协议 she had made this agreement. 幸运的是，事情被发现了 Luckily, it was discovered. 她到银行去 取2万5千美元出来 She went to the bank and asked to withdraw $25, 000. 出纳员问：“你用这么多钱干什么？” And the teller said, “Why do you need all of that money for?” 她说：“我的马桶漏水。” And she said, “Well, I have a leaky toilet.” 出纳员给有关部门打了电话。他们发现了这个黑心承包商 And the teller called authorities and they discovered this unscrupulous contractor. 我猜，就连在座 最热心的契约履行者 也会同意 Now, I suspect that even the most ardent contract carryings in the room will agree 这位女士签了协议的 这一事实 that the fact of this woman’s agreement 并不是 保证协议公平的充分条件 is not a sufficient condition of the agreement being fair. 有人反驳这一点吗？没有人。 我有没有漏掉什么人？ Is there anyone who will dispute that? No one. Am I missing anyone? Alex，你在哪儿？ Alex, where are you? 你在哪儿？ Where are you? 那么，看来没有人反驳我的第一个论点： So, maybe there’s no dispute then to my first claim that 真实的契约本身不是一定…… an actual agreement is not necessary to their.. 不是要求我们 履行义务的充分条件 is not a sufficient condition of there being an obligation. 现在我想提出 更强有力的，也许是更有争议的论断 I want to now make us stronger, maybe more controversial claim about 关于真实契约的道德局限 the moral limits of actual contracts that 契约，或者主动同意，不仅不是义务存在的 充分条件 a contract or an active consent is not only not sufficient 甚至也不是必要条件 but it’s not even a necessary condition of there being an obligation. 这个观点是：如果 双方存在互惠 And the idea here is that if there is reciprocity, 如果双方存在交换，然后有一方得到了利益 if there is an exchange, then a receipt of benefits, 那么义务就产生了，即使没有双方同意的条款。 there can be an obligation even without an act of consent. 一个很好的例子，18世纪的哲学家 One great example of this involves the 18th century philosopher, 苏格兰道德哲学家 大卫·休谟 the Scottish moral philosopher David Hume. 休谟年轻时写过一本书 When he was young, Hume wrote a book arguing against 驳斥洛克 关于原始社会契约的观点 Locke’s idea of an original social contract. 休谟对他的契约论不屑一顾 Hume heaps scorn on his contractarian idea. 他说，这是哲学的虚构 He said it was a philosophical fiction. 这个社会契约论的想法，是人们所能想象到的 One of the most mysterious and incomprehensible operations 最难以理解和不可思议的 that can possibly be imagined, this idea of the social contract. 多年之后，休谟62岁时的一个亲身经历 Many years later when he was 62 years old, Hume had an experience 检验了他的一个观点，即 他拒绝把同意 作为义务的基础。 that put to the test his rejection of consent as the basis of obligation. 休谟在Edinboro有一座房子 Hume had a house in Edinboro. 他把房子租给了朋友James Boswell ， Boswell又把房子转租给了别人 He rented to his friend James Boswell who in turn sublet it to a subtenant. 转租者认为，房子需要进行一些维修和翻新 The subtenant decided that the house needed some repairs and a paint job. 他雇了一个承包商做这些工作 He hired a contractor to do the work. 油漆匠完工之后，把帐单寄给了休谟 The painter did the work and sent the bill to Hume. 休谟拒绝付帐单，因为他没有同意。 Hume refused to pay on the grounds that he hadn’t consented. 他没有雇用那个油漆匠。这个案子上了法庭 He hadn’t hired the painter. The case went to court. 承包商说：“休谟是没有同意， The contractor said, “It’s true, Hume didn’t agree. 但房子需要翻新，而我把它很好的刷了一遍。” but the house needed the painting and I gave it a very good one.” 休谟认为，这不成理由 Hume thought this was a bad argument. 油漆匠唯一的论据是，这项工作有必要完成 The only argument this painter makes is that the work was necessary to be done 但这不是一个好的答案。因为照这样说， but this is no good answer because by the same rule, 油漆匠可以走进Edinboro的每一座房子，做他认为应该做的事 this painter may go through every house in Edinboro and do what he thinks proper to be done 而不需要得到房主的同意。 without the landlord’s consent 然后说，这些翻新工作是有必要的，房子会因此变得更好。 and give the same reason that the work was necessary and that the house was the better for it. 在不经同意的情况下，受益者也有义务回报---- 休谟不喜欢这一套理论。 So Hume didn’t like the theory that there could be obligation to repay a benefit without consent. 但他的辩护失败了，他只好付钱 But the defense failed and he had to pay. 让我再举一个例子来说明 Let met give you one other example of the distinction 义务中 基于同意的方面 和 基于利益的方面，这两方面的区别 between the consent-based aspect of obligations and the benefit-based aspect 以及在某些时候 它们是怎样同时出现 and how they’re sometimes run together. 这基于我的个人经历 This is based on a personal experience. 几年前，我和几个朋友一起开车 穿越美国 Some years ago, I was driving across the country with some friends 我们到了 印第安纳州的Hammond 的一个偏僻的地方 and we found ourselves in the middle of nowhere in Hammond, Indiana. 我们在休息站停下来，走出了车外 We stopped in a rest stop and got out of the car 我们回去时，车发动不了了 and when we came back our car wouldn’t start. 我们对汽车都不太在行 None of us knew much about cars. 实在不知道该怎么办，直到我们发现停车场里 We didn’t really know what to do until we noticed that in the parking lot 一辆货车开到了我们身边，车身上写着 driving up next to us was a van and on the side it said, “Sam的流动维修车” 一个男人从车里走出来 “Sam’s mobile repair van.” And out of the van came a man, 估计他就是Sam。他走到我们面前说：“需要帮忙吗？ presumably Sam and he came up to us and he said, “Can I help you? 我的规矩是这样的：我的工作按小时计，每小时50块 Here’s how I work. I work by the hour for $50 an hour. 如果我五分钟就把车修好了，你就该付我50块 If I fix your car in five minutes, you owe me the $50 如果我修了一小时 还是没修好 and if I work on your car for an hour and can’t fix it, 你仍然 付我五十块。” you’ll still owe me the $50.” 于是我说：“但你把车修好的可能性是多大呢？” So I said, “But what is the likelihood that you’ll be able to fix the car” 他没有回答 and he didn’t answer. 但他开始往下看，检查转向柱的周围 But he did start looking under the poking around the steering column. 片刻之后，他从转向柱下面钻出来，说： Short time passed, he emerged from under the steering column and said, 点火系统没什么问题， “There’s nothing wrong with the ignition system“ 但你还有45分钟，要不要我看看引擎盖下面？” but you still have 45 minutes left. Should I look under the hood?” 我说：“且慢。我没有雇你，我们没有签订协议。” I said, “Wait a minute. I haven’t hired you. We haven’t made any agreement.” 于是他很生气，说：“你的意思是不是说 And then he became very angry and he said, “Do you mean to say that 如果我刚才在转向柱下面检查，修好了你的车 if I had fixed your car while I was working under the steering column 你也不会付我钱？” 我说：“那是另一码事。” that you wouldn’t have paid me?” And I said, “That’s a different question.” 我没有给他讨论 基于同意的和基于利益的契约 之间区别 I didn’t go into the distinction between consent based and benefit based applications. 但我想，他的直觉判断是，如果他在刚才检查的过程中 But I think he had the intuition that if he had fixed it 修好了车，我会给他五十块钱的 while he was poking around that I would have owed him the $50. 我同意他的直觉。我是会给钱的。但他由此进行了推论 I shared that intuition. I would have. But he inferred from that. 我想，这就是他愤怒背后的谬论和推理 This was the fallacy and the reasoning that I think lay behind his anger. 他从那里推断 我们有一个心照不宣的协议 He inferred from that fact that therefore implicitly we had an agreement. 但对我来说，这是错误的 But that it seems to me as a mistake. 错在没能认清 It’s a mistake that fails to recognize the distinction between 契约论的两个不同方面之间的区别 these two different aspects of contract arguments. 是的，我同意。我会给他50块钱，如果他那时修好了我的车 Yes, I agree. I would have owed him $50 if he had repaired my car during that time 并非因为我们有什么协议。 我们没有。 not because we had made any agreement. We hadn’t. 那只是因为，如果他修好了我的车，他就给我带来了利益 But simply because if he had fixed my car, he would have conferred on me a benefit for which 为此我应该付他钱，以互惠和公平的名义。 I would have owed him in the name of reciprocity and fairness. 这个例子再次说明，两种不同的论断， So here’s another example of the distinction between these two different kinds of arguments, 契约的道德力量的两个不同方面 之间的区别。 these two different aspects of the morality of contract. 现在我想知道，有多少人认为我在这件事上是对的？ Now I want to hear how many think I was in the right in that case? 我放心了。有人认为我做错了吗？ That’s reassuring. Is there anyone who thinks I was in the wrong? 有人吗？你这样认为？为什么？请 Anyone? You do? Why? Go ahead. 任何利益都是内在的主观定义，这不是问题所在吗？ Isn’t the problem with this is that any benefit is inherently subjectively defined? 我是说，如果你希望你的车是坏的，而他把它修好了呢？... I mean what if you wanted your car broken and he had fixed it? I mean... 不，我不希望它坏 No, I didn’t want it broken. 在这个案例里是这样。我是说…… Yeah in this case. I mean... 但谁会希望车坏？谁会呢？ But who would? Who would? 我不知道，某些人吧 I don’t know, someone. 我是说如果休谟，如果那个油漆匠 I mean what if Hume, you know, what if the painter 把他的房子漆成蓝色，但他讨厌蓝色 that painted his house blue but he hated the color blue, 我的意思是，你必须在别人做事之前，对你的利益进行定义。 I mean you have to sort of define what your benefit is before the person does it. 好吧，那么你想由此得出什么结论呢？ Well all right, so what would you conclude for that, though, for the larger issue here, 你是否会总结说，同意是义务存在的必要条件？ would you conclude that therefore consent is a necessary condition of their being an obligation? 是的。- 你会这样。你叫什么？ Absolutely.-You would. What’s your name? Nate. Nate. Nate 说，如果不是这样，我们怎么能知道 Because otherwise how can we know, Nate says, 这是 对等的或公平的利益交换呢？除非我们进行主观评价， whether there has been an exchange of equivalent or fair benefits unless we have the subjective evaluation 而这种评价可能是因人而异的。 which may vary one person to the next of the situation. 好吧，这个质疑有道理 All right, that’s a fair challenge. 让我再给你们举一个例子，来检验契约的道德性的 Let me put to you one other example in order to test the relation between 两个不同方面 之间的关系 these two aspects of the morality of contract. 假设我结婚了，而在忠于我们的婚姻 20年之后 Suppose I get married and suppose I discover that after 20 years of faithfulness on my part, 我发现，每年在我们出去旅行的时候 every year on our trip across the country 我的妻子都会和另一个男人幽会， 一个在印第安纳的收费公路上开货车的男人 my wife has been seeing another man, a man with a van on the Indiana toll road. 顺便说一下，这部分完全是虚构的 This part is completely made up by the way. 我道德上的激愤 是不是也有两种不同的理由呢？ Wouldn’t I have two different reasons for moral outrage? 一种理由是 我们有协议 One reason could be we had an agreement. 她违背了她的承诺，这一承诺是基于她的同意而作出的 She broke her promise referring to the fact of her consent. 但我道德上的激愤 还可以有第二种理由 But I would also have a second ground for moral outrage 它和契约本身无关。但我这一方一直很忠诚。 having nothing to do with the contract as such but I’ve been so faithful for my part. 我当然应该得到更好的 Surely I deserve better than this. 我的付出 就得到这种回报吗？ Is this what I’m doing in return and so on? 这就表明了 互惠的要素 So that would point to the element of reciprocity. 每一种理由 都有独立的道德力量 Each reason has an independent moral force. 这是总体的观点。你会了解到这一点， That’s the general point and you can see this 如果你想像 把这个婚姻案例稍微改一下 if you imagine a slight variation on the marriage case. 假设我们没有结婚20年 Suppose we haven’t been married for 20 years. 假设我们刚刚结婚，背叛就发生了 Suppose we were just married and that the betrayal occurred 在我们去印第安纳州的Hammond 度蜜月的途中 on the way to our honeymoon in Hammond, Indiana. 这时契约已经达成， After the contract has been made, 但我这一方还没有任何表现，我是指对于契约的作为。 but before there is any history of performance on my part, performance of the contract I mean, 我仍然站在Julian一边。我会说： I would still with Julian, I'd be able to say 但你承诺了，你承诺了 but you promised, you promised. 这就把 同意 这一要素 单独抽离出来 That would isolate the pure element of consent, 虽然还没有产生利益，但这无关紧要。你明白我的意思。 Right？Where there were no benefits, never mind. You get the idea. 这就是主要观点。真实契约的道德力量 Here’s the main idea, actual contracts have their moral force 借助于两个不同的理念：自律和互惠 in virtue of two distinguishable ideals: autonomy and reciprocity, 但在现实生活中，每个真实契约都可能不符合这两点 but in real life every actual contract may fall short, 可能一开始 就没有实现这两点，没能给契约 赋予道德力量 may fail to realize the ideals that give contracts their moral force in the first place. 自律的理念可能没有实现， The ideal of autonomy may not be realized 因为 各方谈判的势力 可能是不均衡的 because there may be a difference in the bargaining power of the parties. 互惠的理念可能没有实现， The ideal of reciprocity may not be realized 因为 各方的知识上，可能存在差距。 because there may be a difference of knowledge between the parties 因此，他们可能错误地判断，什么是真正具有相等价值的。 and so they may misidentify what really counts as having equivalent value. 现在，假如你们 想象一个契约 Now suppose you were to imagine a contract 它自律和互惠的理念 不是受制于外界的偶然因素 where the ideals of autonomy and of reciprocity were not subject to contingency 而是确保能够实现的。这将会是什么样的契约？ but were guaranteed to be realized, what kind of contract would that have to be? 想象一种契约，它的各方在权力和知识上是平等的， Imagine a contract among parties who were equal in power and knowledge 而不是不等的，他们的地位是相同的，而非不同的 rather than unequal who are identically situated rather than differently situated. 这就是Rawls 的正义观念 背后的理论： That is the idea behind Rawls’ claim that 思考正义的方法就是，站在一个假想契约的角度 the way to think about justice is from the standpoint of a hypothetical contract, 站在“无知的面纱” 的背后 创造了平等的条件 behind a veil of ignorance that creates the condition of equality 通过排除，或者使我们暂时忘记，权力和知识的差距， by ruling out or enabling us to forget for the moment the differences in power and knowledge 这些差距在大多数情况下，会导致不公平的结果。 that could even in principle lead to unfair results. 这就是为什么对康德和Rawls 来说 This is why for Kant and for Rawls, 一个各方平等的假想契约 是思考正义原则的 唯一途径 a hypothetical contract among equals is the only way to think about principles of justice. 这些原则是什么？这是我们下次要讨论的问题 What will those principles be? That’s the question we’ll turn to next time.
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What's the Right Thing to Do - Lecture 6 The Supreme Principle of Morality
科学是整理过的知识，而智慧则是整理过的人生。 ---康德 Science is organized knowledge. Wisdom is organized life. ——Immanuel Kant
小心你的动机 Mind Your Motive 现在，我们 Now we turn 转到这门课最难懂的哲学家 Now we turn to the hardest philosopher we're going to read in this course. 今天，我们要讲伊曼努尔-康德。 Today we turn to Immanuel Kant 他提出一个不同的解释 who offers a different account 为什么我们有绝对性的义务 of why we have a categorical duty
去尊敬别人的尊严 to respect the dignity of persons 而不能仅仅把人当成工具 and not to use people as means merely 哪怕是出于好意 even for good ends. 康德在16岁的时候 Kant excelled at the University of Konigsberg 就已经在Konigsberg大学出类拔萃了 at the age of 16. 他在31岁时，得到了自己第一份工作，担任无薪的讲师 At age of 31, he got his first job as an unsalaried lecturer 根据当堂听课学生的数量 paid on commission based on the number of students 获得报酬 who showed up at his lectures. 哈佛应该好好参考一下这个制度 This is a sensible system that Harvard would do well to consider. 幸运的是，康德是个非常受欢迎的讲师 Luckily for Kant, he was a popular lecturer 而且工作勤奋刻苦 and also an industrious one 所以，他还勉强维持自己的生计 and so he eked out a meager living. 直到57岁，他才出版了自己第一本重要著作 It wasn't until he was 57 that he published his first major work. 然而，这种等待是值得的 But, it was worth the wait, 因为那本书就是《纯理性批判》 the book was the "Critique of Pure Reason" 也许是所有现代哲学著作中最为重要的一本 perhaps the most important work in all of modern philosophy. 几年后，康德写出了里程碑式的作品：《道德的形而上学基础》 And a few years later, Kant wrote the groundwork for "Metaphysics of Morals" 我们在这门课读到这本书 which we read in this course. 在开始之前，我想声明一下 I want to acknowledge even before we start 康德是位艰深的思想家 that Kant is a difficult thinker 然而，试图理解他的观点至关重要 but it's important to try to figure what he's saying 因为本书论述的正是 because what this book is about 什么是道德的终极原则 is what the supreme principle of morality is, 这是其一。 number one, 该书也为我们解释了 and it also gives us an account –
也是现金最有影响力的解释之一 one of the most powerful accounts we have –
即 究竟什么是自由 of what freedom really is. 那么，让我们就此开始。 So, let me start today, 康德反对功利主义 Kant rejects utilitarianism. 在他看来 He thinks that 作为个体的人 the individual person, 所有的人 all human beings, 都有一定的尊严，而我们必须尊重它 have a certain dignity that commands our respect. 根据康德，个人之所以是是受到尊重的 The reason the individual is sacred or the bearer of rights, 或者是权利的拥有者 according to Kant, 并不是源于，我们支配和拥有自己 doesn't stem from the idea that we own ourselves 而是源于，我们都是理性的存在 but instead from the idea that we are all rational beings. 我们是理性存在，其意义就是 We're all rational beings, which simply means 我们都有理性 that we are beings who are capable of reason. 同时，我们也是独立自主的存在 We are also autonomous beings, 也就是说，我们有能力自由地选择和行动 which is to say that we are beings capable of acting and choosing freely. 理性和自由并不是 Now, this capacity for reason and freedom 我们仅有的能力 isn't the only capacity we have. 我们还有痛苦和快乐、 We also have the capacity for pain and pleasure, 受苦和满足的能力 for suffering and satisfaction. 康德也承认，功利主义的观点一半是正确的 Kant admits the utilitarians were half right. 当然，我们会回避痛苦， Of course, we seek to avoid pain 我们追求享乐 and we like pleasure, 康德并不否认这一点 Kant doesn't deny this. 他所驳斥的是 What he does deny 边沁的说法 is Bentham's claim 边沁认为痛苦和欢乐主宰了我们 that pain and pleasure are our sovereign masters. 康德认为这是错误的 He thinks that's wrong. 康德认为，是我们的理性 Kant thinks that it's our rational capacity 让我们脱颖而出 that makes us distinctive, 让我们变得截然不同 that makes us special, 使我们区别开，而且高于其他动物的存在 that sets us apart from and above mere animal existence. 使我们成为，不仅仅是只有欲望的肉身 It makes us something more than just physical creatures with appetites. 我们常常会认为，自由就是我们做自己想做的事 We often think of freedom as simply consisting in doing what we want 或者毫无障碍的得到想要的东西 or in the absence of obstacles to getting what we want, 这是对于自由的一种看法 that's one way of thinking about freedom. 但是康德不是这么看 But this isn't Kant's idea of freedom. 康德制定了更为严格的定义 Kant has a more stringent demanding notion 来解释自由是什么 of what it means to be free. 这一定义既严厉又苛刻， And though it's stringent and demanding, 但如果你仔细想想，你会发现它很有说服力 if you think it through, it's actually pretty persuasive. 康德的推理如下： Kant reasons as follows: 如果我们像动物一样 when we, like animals, 追求享乐或欲望的满足， seek after pleasure or the satisfaction of our desires 或者回避痛苦 or the avoidance of pain, 如果我们是那样的话，我们并不是真正自由的 when we do that we aren't really acting freely. 为什么呢？ Why not? 因为，这样我们就成了这些欲望和冲动的奴隶 We're really acting as the slaves of those appetites and impulses. 我们不能选择某种饥饿，或某种欲望 I didn't choose this particular hunger or that particular appetite 因此，当我们去满足它的时候 and so when I act to satisfy it, 我们只是去适应我们的本能需求而已 I'm just acting according to natural necessity. 在康德看来，自由是本能需求的对立 And for Kant, freedom is the opposite of necessity. 几年前，雪碧有这样一则广告 There was an advertising slogan for the soft drink Sprite a few years ago. “顺从你的渴望”。 The slogan was, "Obey your thirst." 雪碧的这个口号里面也反映了康德的想法 There's a Kantian insight buried in that Sprite advertising slogan 与康德的观点有关 that in a way is Kant's point. 当你购买雪碧或者百事可乐的时候， When you go for Sprite or Pepsi, you're really –
你很可能认为，自己是在自由选择 you might think that you're choosing freely, 雪碧，或 百事可乐 Sprite versus Pepsi, 但实际上，你是在顺从某些东西 but you're actually obeying something, 口渴，或某种被广告制造并操纵的欲望 a thirst or maybe a desire manufactured or massaged by advertising, 你正在顺从某种，并非由你选择或创造的刺激 you're obeying a prompting that you yourself haven't chosen or created. 这里我们需要注意，康德对自由下的尤为苛刻的定义 And here it is worth noticing Kant's specially demanding idea of freedom. 这会是一种什么样的行为—— 我们的意志怎么会 What way of acting – how can my will be determined
不是出于本能的刺激 if not by the promptings of nature 不是出于饥饿、食欲、或者我的欲望？ or my hunger or my appetite or my desires? 康德的答案是什么呢？ Kant's answer? 自由的行动，就意味着自主的行动 To act freely is to act autonomously, 自主的行动，就意味着遵从我 and to act autonomously is to act according to a law 为自己设定的规则而行动 that I give myself 不是出于自然法则 not according to the physical laws of nature 或因果定律 or the laws of cause and effect 它包括了，我选择吃或喝的欲望 which include my desire to eat or to drink 或者选择这家餐馆 or to choose this 而非那一家 food in a restaurant over that. 那么，对于康德来说 Now, what is the opposite 自主的反义词又是什么呢？ of autonomy for Kant? 他发明了一个术语 He invents a special term 来描述自主的对立面 to describe the opposite of autonomy. 自主的对立，就是“他律”。 Heteronomy is the opposite of autonomy. 当我因“他律”而行动时，我的行动是出于某种偏好 When I act heteronomously, I'm acting according to an inclination, 或本能欲望，而不是我自己选择的 or a desire, that I haven't chosen for myself. 因此，康德坚持，将自由严格地视作是自主的 So, freedom as autonomy is an especially stringent idea that Kant insists on. 接下来，为什么“他律”或本能的行为 Now, why is autonomy the opposite of acting heteronomously 其立就是自主呢？ or according to the dictates of nature? 康德的观点是，自然是受规律支配的 Kant's point is that nature is governed by laws, 例如因果关系的定律 laws of cause and effect for example. 假设你丢下一个台球 Suppose you drop a billiard ball, 它就会掉到地上 it falls to the ground; 我们都不会认为，这个球的行动是自由的 we wouldn't say the billiard ball is acting freely. 为什么？ Why not? 因为它的行为遵循自然规律 It's acting according to the law of nature, 遵循因果关系的规律 according to the laws of cause of effect, 即万有引力定律 the law of gravity. 正如他对自由的定义 And just as he has an unusually demanding and stringent 超乎寻常的严厉和苛刻 conception of freedom, 认为自由是自主的 freedom as autonomy, 他对道德的定义也很苛刻 he also has a demanding conception of morality. 行动自由，并不是选择最好的手段，来达到特定的目的 To act freely is not to choose the best means to a given end; 而是为了选择目的本身 it's to choose the end itself for its own sake. 这正是人类可以做到， And that's something that human beings can do 而台球却无法做到的 and that billiard balls can't. 当我们出于偏好或享乐的行为 In so far as we act on inclination or pursue pleasure, 我们成了实现目的手段，而这个目的是外加给我们的 we act as means to the realization of ends given outside us. 我们成了工具，而不是实现目的的主人 We are instruments rather than authors of the purposes we pursue, 这就是我们的意志受“他律”支配 that's the heteronymous determination of the will. 另一方面，当我们根据我们给自己制定的规律 On the other hand, in so far as we act autonomously, 自主地行为时 according to a law we give ourselves, 我们的行为本身就是目的（而不是手段） we do something for its own sake as an end in itself. 当我们自主行动时，我们好像是工具 When we act autonomously, we seems to be instruments 实现外加给我们目的的工具 to purposes given outside us, 但我们可以反过来，将我们自己 we become, or we can come to think of ourselves 看作是目的 as ends in ourselves. 康德告诉我们，正是这种自由行动的能力 This capacity to act freely, Kant tells us, 赋予了人类独有的尊严 is what gives human life its special dignity. 尊重人类的尊严，意味着不仅仅要将人 Respecting human dignity means regarding persons 视为实现目的的手段，而且要将人本身也视为目的 not just as means but also as ends in themselves. 这就是为什么，为了某些人的幸福， And this is why it's wrong to use people 而利用其他人，是错误的 for the sake of other peoples' well-being or happiness. 康德说，这就是功利主义是错误的 This is the real reason, Kant says, 真正原因 that utilitarianism goes wrong. 这就是，尊重他人的尊严，维护他人的权利 This is the reason it's important to respect the dignity of persons 是什么重要的原因所在 and to uphold their rights. 即使有些情况，还记得约翰·密尔曾说过 So, even if there are cases, remember John Stewart Mill said, “长远看来，只要我们坚持正义 "Well, in the long run, if we uphold justice 并尊重个人的尊严 and respect the dignity of persons, 我们就可以实现人类幸福的最大化。” we will maximize human happiness." 康德会怎样看待这句话呢？ What would Kant's answer be to that? 他的回答会是什么？ What would his answer be? 就算这句话说的是真的 Even if that were true, 就算计算出来，显示确实是这样的（功利主义只看效用） even if the calculus worked out that way, 就算你也不能把基督徒扔进（斗兽场的）狮子群里（第2集的例子） even if you shouldn't throw the Christian's to the lions 理由是，从长远来看，恐惧将会蔓延 because in the long run fear will spread, 总体的效用会下降 the overall utility will decline. 功利主义者们坚持了正义 The utilitarian would be upholding justice and right 尊重了个人，但其理由却是错误的 and respect for persons for the wrong reason, （功利主义者们这样做）纯粹是依赖于外部情况而定 for a purely a contingent reason, 其做事的理由是工具性的 for an instrumental reason. 功利主义依然可能会利用人民 It would still be using people, 即使计算出长期的效用，得出这样做是最佳的 even where the calculus works out for the best in the long run, 它还是把人当作手段来利用 it would still be using people as means 而不是尊重人，把人本身也视为目的 rather than respecting them as ends in themselves. 这就是康德的想法：把自由视为自主的 So, that's Kant's idea of freedom as autonomy 你们可以看到，这与他的道德观点之间的联系 and you can begin to see how it's connected to his idea of morality. 但是我们还要回答一个问题 But we still have to answer one more question, 一开始是什么，赋予了行为的道德价值？ what gives an act its moral worth in the first place? 如果那些需要被满足的需要、欲望、效用 If it can't be directed, 是无法被操纵的， that utility or satisfying wants and desires, 是什么赋予了行为的道德价值呢？ what gives an action its moral worth? 这个问题将我们从康德苛刻的自由观 This leads us from Kant's demanding idea of freedom 转到他那苛刻的道德观 to his demanding idea of morality. 康德是怎么说的呢？ What does Kant say? 行为的道德价值 What makes an action morally worthy 并非在于行为，行为所产生的结果 consists not in the consequences or in the results that flow from it, 行为的道德价值，与行为的动机有关 what makes an action morally worthy has to do with the motive, 与意志的品质有关 with the quality of the will, 与行为的意图有关 with the intention for which the act is done. 关键的是动机 What matters is the motive 而且必须是某种类型的动机 and the motive must be of a certain kind. 因此，某一行为的道德价值 So, the moral worth of an action 取决于行为的动机 depends on the motive for which it's done 重要的是，那个人 and the important thing is that the person 出于正确的目的，做了正确的事 do the right thing for the right reason. “高尚的意志之所以高尚，并不是看它的效果” "A good will isn't good because of what it affects or accomplishes," 康德写道，“它本身就是高尚的 Kant writes, "it's good in itself. 即使尽了最大的努力，也一无所成 Even if by its utmost effort, the goodwill accomplishes nothing, 它仍像珠宝一样，因其自身而闪耀 it would still shine like a jewel for its own sake 它本身就蕴含了全部的价值。” as something which has its full value in itself." 因此，如果某种行为在道德上是好的 And so, for any action to be morally good, 仅仅符合道德准则是不够的 it's not enough that it should conform to the moral law, 其目的必须是道德的 it must also be done for the sake of the moral law. 康德的观点是，动机赋予了行为的道德价值 The idea is that the motive confers the moral worth on an action 而且只有一种动机，可以给行为赋予的道德价值 and the only kind of motive that can confer moral worth on an action 这就是出于职责的动机 is the motive of duty. 那么，基于职责的动机 Well, what's the opposite of doing something out of a sense of duty 它的反面是什么呢？ because it's right? 在康德看来， Well for Kant, 责任的对立就是所有那些 the opposite would be all of those motives 与我们的偏好相关的动机 having to do with our inclinations. “偏好” 是指我们所有的欲望 And inclinations refer to all of our desires, 所有依外部情况而定的渴望 all of our contingently given wants, 喜好、冲动，诸如此类。 preferences, impulses, and the like. 只有出于道德准则 Only actions done for the sake of the moral law, 出于职责所采取的行为 for the sake of duty, 才具有道德价值 only these actions have moral worth. 现在，我想知道，你们对这个观点有何看法 Now, I want to see what you think about this idea 但是首先，让我们来思考一些例子 but first let's consider a few examples. 康德以曾经以一个店主来做例子 Kant begins with an example of a shopkeeper. 他想藉此引出直觉 He wants to bring out the intuition 来合理的说明 and make plausible the idea 赋予行为以道德价值的 that what confers moral worth on an action 是行为的目的本身是正确的 is that it be done because it's right. 他说，假设有个店主 He says suppose there's a shopkeeper 一位陌生的顾客 and an inexperienced customer comes in. 店主知道，他可以故意给这位客人，找错零钱，或者少找零钱 The shopkeeper knows that he could give the customer the wrong change, 而且不会因此受到任何惩罚 could shortchange the customer and get away with it; 至少顾客本人一定会被蒙在鼓里。 at least that customer wouldn't know. 尽管如此，店主还是说， But the shopkeeper nonetheless says, “好吧，如果少给这位顾客少找零钱，这事情可能会传出去 "Well, if I shortchange this customer, word may get out, 我的信誉会因此受损 my reputation would be damaged, 我的生意也会遭受损失 and I would lose business, 因此，我不应该给这位顾客少找零钱” so I won't shortchange this customer." 这位店主没有犯错 The shopkeeper does nothing wrong, 他找给客人分毫不差的零钱 he gives the correct change, 但是他的这一行为是否具有道德价值呢？ but does his action have moral worth? 康德的回答是“不”，这位店主的行为不能说是高尚的 Kant says no, it doesn't have moral worth 因为他的行为虽然正确，但他这样做的理由却是错误的 because the shopkeeper only did the right thing for the wrong reason, 他是为了自己的利益 out of self-interest. 这个例子非常简单易懂 That's a pretty straightforward case. 康德还举了另一个例子——自杀。 Then he takes another case, the case of suicide. 他说，我们有维持自己生命的职责 He says we have a duty to preserve ourselves. 当然，对于大多数珍爱自己生命的人来说， Now, for most people who love life, 有很多理由不放弃生命 we have multiple reasons for not taking our own lives. 因此，我们唯一的方法 So, the only way we can really tell, 那些没有放弃生命的人， the only way we can isolate the operative motive 只有一个办法，区分出他们的动机是有效的 for someone who doesn't take his or her life 就是想象，一个十分不幸的人 is to think – to imagine someone who's miserable
过着极度痛苦的生活 and who despite having an absolutely miserable life 却仍然知道，他有维持自己生命的职责 nonetheless recognizes the duty to preserve one's self 没有去自杀 and so does not commit suicide. 这个例子的作用在于，它把关键的动机引出来 The force of the example is to bring out the motive that matters 就道德而言，至关重要的是 and the motive that matters for morality 出于职责，而做正确的事 is doing the right thing for the sake of duty. 让我再给大家举另外一些例子 Let me just give you a couple of other examples. 美国商业促进局，他们的口号是什么？ The Better Business Bureau, what's their slogan? 他们的口号是 The slogan of the Better Business Bureau: “诚信是最好的政策 "Honesty is the best policy. 也是最能带来利润的、” It's also the most profitable." 这是它在纽约时报做的整版的广告 This is the Better Business Bureau's full page ad in the New York Times, “诚信，与其它任何资产同等重要， "Honesty, it's as important as any other asset 因为一家诚实、公开、公平运营的企业， because a business that deals in truth, openness, and fair value 注定会成功。 cannot help but do well. 加入我们，从此赢利” Come join us and profit from it." 康德会如何评判，商业促进局的会员们 What would Kant say about the moral worth 诚实交易的道德价值呢？ of the honest dealings of members of the Better Business Bureau? 他会怎么说？ What would he say? 这就是个很好的例子，如果赢利是这些企业 That here's a perfect example that if this is the reason 诚实的对待它们的顾客的原因 that these companies deal honestly with their customers, 他们的行为就缺乏道德价值，这就是康德的观点 their action lacks moral worth, this is Kant's point. 几年前，在马里兰大学 A couple of years ago, at the University of Maryland, 曾出现作弊问题 there was a problem with cheating 他们因此而启动了一个诚信体制 and so they initiated an honor system 他们与当地的商家建立了一个项目 and they created a program with local merchants 如果你签了绝不作弊的信誉保证 that if you signed the honor pledge, a pledge not to cheat, 你就可以在当地商店买东西时，获得10~25%的折扣 you would get discounts of 10% to 25% at local shops. 现在，你怎么看这些为了得到折扣 Well what would you think of someone motivated to uphold an honor code 而支持信誉准则的人们？ with the hope of discounts? 这与之前康德的店主是一样致的 It's the same as Kant's shopkeeper. 关键的地方，在于意志的品质 The point is, what matters is the quality of the will, 动机的性质 the character of the motive 只有出于职责的动机，才是道德的 and the relative motive to morality can only be the motive of duty, 而非基于偏好的动机 not the motive of inclination. 只有在我基于职责而行动时 And when I act out of duty, 只有在我抗拒偏好或自利 when I resist as my motive for acting inclinations 的动机时， or self-interest, （哪怕你的动机）是出于同情，或利他主义 even sympathy and altruism, 只有这样，我的行为才是自由的； only then am I acting freely, 只有这样，我的行为才是自主的； only then am I acting autonomously, 只有这样，我的意志才不会被外在的因素 only then is my will not determined or governed 所统治或左右 by external considerations, 这就是康德，自由观与道德观之间的联系 that's the link between Kant's idea of freedom and of morality. 现在我想暂停一下，看看大家是否清楚这些观点 Now, I want to pause here to see if all of this is clear 如果你们有疑问或者困惑 or if you have some questions or puzzles. 可以是问题的澄清 They can be questions of clarification 也可以是对这些观点的质疑 or they can be challenges, 如果你想质疑，“只有出于职责的动机 if you want to challenge this idea that only the motive of duty 才能赋予行为的道德价值” confers moral worth on the action. 你怎么想？ What do you think? 是的。 Yes. 呃，我其实有两个问题想澄清 Yeah, I actually have two questions of clarification. 第一，这里好像有一点 The first is, there seems to be an aspect of this 是自相矛盾的 that makes it sort of self-defeating 一旦你知道到，什么是道德 in that once you're conscious of what morality is 你就可以改变行动的动机，使其变成是道德的 you can sort of alter your motive to achieve that end of morality. 举个例子来说明你的想法 Give me an example of what you have in mind. 比如那个店主的故事 The shopkeeper example. 如果他决定了，找给顾客正确的钱 If he decides that he wants to give the person the money 才是正确的行为 to do the right thing 而他又决定，自己这样做的原因是因为 and he decides that it's his motive to do so 想做有道德的人 because he wants to be moral 这不就成了自相矛盾了么？ then isn't that sort of defeating trying to –
如果道德是由他的动机决定的， isn't that sort of defeating the purity of his action 那么这不是有损他单纯的动机吗？ if morality is determined by his motive? 他的动机就成了“按照道德要求而行动”了。 His motive is then to act morally. 我明白了。你假设了一个例子 I see. So, you're imagining a case 这不是一位只顾算钱的自私的店主 not of the purely selfish calculating shopkeeper 而是一个.... but of one who says, 他可能考虑过，少给顾客找钱 well, he may consider shortchanging the customer. 但他说，“不能这样做， But then he says, "Not, 否则传来出去，有损我的名声 or my reputation might suffer if word gets out." 他改成说， But instead he says, “我想做一个诚实的人， "Actually, I would like to be the kind of honest person 诚实的人会找给顾客正确的钱 who gives the right change to customers 仅仅是因为这是正确的行为。” simply because it's the right thing to do." 或者，更简单一点，“因为我想做一个有道德的人。” Or simply, "Because I want to be moral." “因为我想做有道德的人，做好人， "Because I want to be moral, I want to be a good person, 所以，我要让自己的行为 and so I'm going to conform all of my actions 符合道德的要求。” to what morality requires." 这点很细微。问题问得好。 It's a subtle point, it's a good question. 康德确实承认了一点 Kant does acknowledge, 而你的问题直指这个关键 you're pressing Kant on an important point here, 康德确实说了，遵守道德规范 Kant does say there has to be some incentive 是需要一些激励 to obey the moral law, 这种激励不可以是 it can't be a self-interested incentive 与道德相冲突的、满足个人利益的激励。 that would defeat it by definition. 是的，他提出了另一种不同于“偏好”的激励 So, he speaks of a different kind of incentive from that inclination, 他说，这是对道德规范的崇敬 he speaks of reverence for the moral law. 那么，如果那个店主说， So, if that shopkeeper says, “我想对道德准则表示尊敬， "I want to develop a reverence for the moral law 所以，我要做正确的事情。” and so I'm going to do the right thing" 我认为，这样， then I think he's there, 按照康德的说法，他就是有道德的 he's there as far as Kant's concerned 因为，他形成了自己的动机 because he's formed his motive, 他的意志符合道德准则 his will is conforming to the moral law 一旦他知道道德的重要性 once he sees the importance of it. 所以，这个情况就算数。这个就算数。 So, it would count, it would count. 好的，接下来，第一个问题 All right, then, secondly, very quickly, 就刚才的说法而言，是什么阻止了道德变成完全是客观的？ what stops morality from becoming completely objective in this point? 又是什么阻止道德变得是主观的？ What stops morality from becoming subjective? 如果道德完全由你的品性来决定， Yeah, like how can – if morality is completely determined by your morals
那你是如何应用它，又如何执行它呢？ then how can you apply this or how can it be enforced? 很好，这也是个好问题。 All right, that's also a great question. 你的名字叫什么？-- 我叫 Amady. What's your name?- My name is Amady. Amady? 是的。 Amady? -- Yes. 好的。如果，符合道德的行为 All right, if acting morally 是指出于职责，按照道德准则来行动， means acting according to a moral law out of duty 而且这行动也是自由的、自主的 and if it's also to act freely in the sense of autonomously, 那就一定意味着，我是按照我给自己设定的准则来行动的 it must mean that I'm acting according to a law that I give myself, 这也是自主地行动的意思 that's what it means to act autonomously, Amady 在这一点上是正确的 Amady is right about that, 这也引发了另外一个有趣的问题 but that does raise a really interesting question. 如果行动自主，意味着根据我为自己设定的准则来行动 If acting autonomously means acting according to a law I give myself, 那么，我就可以逃脱自然规律和因果定律的束缚 that's how I escape the chain of cause and effect and the laws of nature. 当我出于职责行事的时候， What's the guarantee that the law I give myself 怎么保证，我为自己设定的准则 when I'm acting out of duty 与Amady给自己设定的准则 is the same as the law that Amady is giving himself 以及在座各位给自己的原则，是一样的呢？ and that each of you gives yourselves? 好的，问题就在这里 Well, here's the question, 在康德的来看，在这个课室里 how many moral laws, from Kant's point of view, 有多少种道德准则？ are there in this room? 一千种？还是一种？ Are there a thousand or is there one? 康德认为只有一种，这回到一个问题上来： He thinks there's one, which in a way does go back to this question: 道德准则是什么？ all right, what is the moral law? 它告诉我们什么？ What does it tell us? 听起来，自主行动就是 So, what guarantees – it sounds like to act autonomously
根据自己的良心行动 is to act according to one's conscience, 根据我们为自己设定的准则行动 according to a law one gives oneself, 但是，怎么保证 but what guarantees that we –
如果我们使用各自的理性 if we all exercise our reason, 最终会得出同样一个道德准则呢？ we will come up with one and the same moral law? 这就是Amady 想要知道的 That's what Amady wants to know. 对此，康德的回答是： Here's Kant's answer: 作为自主的个体，之所以能得出同一个的行为原则 the reason that leads us to the law we give ourselves 是因为一种理性 as autonomous beings is a reason, 这是一种人类所共有的实践理性 it's a kind of practical reason that we share as human beings. 它不是个人特有的 It's not idiosyncratic. 我们要尊敬他人的尊严，是因为 The reason we need to respect the dignity of persons 我们都是理性的生命 is that we're all rational beings, 我们都有理性思考的能力， we all have the capacity for reason 正是我们都拥有 and it's the exercise of that capacity for reason 无差别的理性 which exists undifferentiated in all of us 使我们所有人都值得受尊重 that makes us worthy of dignity, all of us, 不论你的经历或生活环境是怎样 and since it's the same capacity for reason, 我们都有同样的理性 unqualified by particular autobiographies and life circumstance, 也正是这种大家都拥有的理性 it's the same universal capacity for reason 提供了道德法则 that delivers the moral law, 因此，行动自主就意味着运用我们的理性 it turns out that to act autonomously 根据我们给自己设定的准则来行动 is to act according to a law we give ourselves exercising our reason, 而这种理性，是作为理性存在的我们所共有的 but it's the reason we share with everyone as rational beings, 而非我们的教养 not the particular reasons we have given our upbringings, 我们的价值观，我们特定的利益 our particular values, our particular interests. 这是纯粹实践理性，用康德的术语来说 It's pure practical reason, in Kant's terms, 它给我们设立了一个先验，不管任何的外部情况 which legislates a priori regardless of any particular contingent 或经验的目的 or empirical ends. 那么，这种理性能提供怎样的道德准则呢？ Well, what moral law would that kind of reason deliver? 它的内容是什么？ What is its content? 要回答这个问题，你必须阅读《道德的形而上学基础》 To answer that question, you have to read the groundwork 我们将在下次继续讨论这个问题 and we'll continue with that question next time. 百善孝为先，论心不论迹，论迹穷人无孝子； 万恶淫为首，论迹不论心，论心天下无完人。
今天，我们回到康德 Today we turn back to Kant. 在我们这样做之前，还记得，本周末之前 Before we do, remember this is the week 你们要基本了解康德 by the end of which all of you will basically get Kant, 弄明白他想做的 figure out what he's up to. 你笑了 You're laughing. 不，你会的 No, it will happen. 康德的《道德的形而上学基础》是关于两个大问题 Kant's groundwork is about two big questions. 第一，什么是道德的最高原则？ First, what is the supreme principle of morality? 第二，为何有自由？ Second, how is freedom possible? 两个大问题 Two big questions. 现在，为了让大家读懂这本深奥的哲学著作，其中一个办法就是 Now, one way of making your way through this dense philosophical book 要切记几组对立物 is to bear in mind a set of oppositions 或几组对比，几组二元论 or contrasts or dualisms 而它们是相关的 that are related. 今天，我想谈谈这组对立 Today I'd like to talk about them. 今天，我们要回答一个问题 Today we're going to answer the question, 根据康德，什么是道德的最高原则？ what, according to Kant, is the supreme principle of morality? 当我们解答这个问题， And in answering that question, 在我们找出康德对这个问题的答案时 in working our way up to Kant's answer to that question 记住康德列出的 it will help to bear in mind 三组对立物，或几组二元论， three contrasts, or dualisms, 对大家有帮助 that Kant sets out. 第一组，你会记得 The first, you'll remember, 与我们行为的动机有关 had to do with the motive according to which we act. 根据康德，只有一种动机 And according to Kant, only one kind of motive 与道德相一致，那就是基于职责的动机 is consistent with morality, the motive of duty, 为正确的理由，做正确的事 doing the right thing for the right reason. 另一种动机是什么样的？ What other kind of motives are there? 康德把它们归类为“偏好” Kant sums them up in the category of inclination. 我们每次行动的动机，都是为了满足某种愿望或喜好 Every time the motive for what we do is to satisfy a desire or a preference 去追求某种偏好 that we may have, to pursue some interest, 我们是出于“偏好” we're acting out of inclination. 现在，让我停下来看看，在思考有关 Now, let me pause to see if in thinking about the question 对职责的动机，良好的意愿时 of the motive of duty, the goodwill, 看看你们对康德的说法是否有疑问 see if any of you has a question about that much of Kant's claim. 或者说，大家是否同意这样区分？ Or is everybody happy with this distinction? 你怎么看？请 What do you think? Go ahead. 当你把职责和偏好，区分开来时 When you make that distinction between duty and inclination 曾经有过任何道德行动？ is there ever any moral action ever? 我的意思是，你总能找到一些自私的动机，不是吗？ I mean you could always, kind of, probably find some selfish motive, can't you? 也许，很多时候，人们行为的动机都是利己的 Maybe, very often people do have self-interested motives when they act. 康德不否认这点 Kant wouldn't dispute that 但康德的意思是，关于我们的道德行为 but what Kant is saying is that in so far as we act morally, 关于我们的行为具有道德价值 that is in so far as our actions have moral worth, 赋予其道德价值的，正是我们那 what confers moral worth is precisely our capacity 超越自我利益、审慎、偏好的能力 to rise above self-interest and prudence and inclination 来基于职责而行动 and to act out of duty. 几年前，我读到一个拼字比赛 Some years ago I read about a spelling bee 比赛宣布，一个年轻人成为了这场比赛 and there was a young man who was declared the winner 的赢家 of the spelling bee, 这个孩子叫 Andrew，13岁 a kid named Andrew, 13 years old. 那个获奖的单词，那个他能拼出来的单词 The winning word, the word that he was able to spell, 是“echolalia。” was "echolalia." 有谁知道echolalia是什么？什么？ Does anyone know what echolalia is? What? 一种花？ Some type of flower? 不是一种花。不是 It's not some type of flower. No. 它的意思是，像如回声一样， It means the tendency to repeat as in echo, 重复你所听到的 to repeat what you've heard. 实际上，他把它拼错了，但评判们也听错了 Anyhow, he misspelled it actually but the judges misheard him, 评判们以为，他是正确地拼了出来 they thought he had spelled it correctly 授予了他 全国拼字比赛冠军 and awarded him the championship of the National Spelling Bee 他后来去了见评判员，说 and he went to the judges afterward and said, “其实，我拼错了，我不应该得这个奖。” "Actually, I misspelled it, I don't deserve the prize." 而他被看作是道德英雄 And he was regarded as a moral hero 他还被写进了纽约时报 and he was written up in the New York Times, “拼错先生是拼字比赛的英雄。” "Misspeller is Spelling Bee Hero." 这是Andrew和他那位自豪的母亲 There's Andrew with his proud mother 后来他接受采访时，听听这个 and when he was interviewed afterwards, listen to this, 后来他被采访时，他说， when he was interviewed afterwards, he said, “评判们说，我很诚实” "The judges said I had a lot of integrity," 但他补充说，他这样做的动机是 but then he added that part of his motive was, “我不想让自己像个可恶的人” "I didn't want to feel like a slime." 好的。康德会怎么说？ All right. What would Kant say? 请 Go ahead. 我想，这取决于 I guess it would depend on whether or not 这是次要的原因，还是主要原因 that was a marginal reason or the predominant reason 以及，为什么他决定承认 and whether or not – and why he decided to confess
他实际上并没有正确拼出那个单词 that he didn't actually spell the word correctly. 好的。而你叫什么名字？ Good. And what's your name? Bosco。 Bosco. 这很有趣 That's very interesting. 其他人对此有没有什么看法？ Is there anyone else who has a view about this? 这是否表明，康德提出的原则是太严格、太苛刻？ Does this show that Kant's principle is too stringent, too demanding? 康德对此会怎么说呢？ What would Kant say about this? 是 Yes. 我认为，康德确实说，正是出自于职责的 I think that Kant actually says that it is the pure motivation 纯粹动机赋予了行为的道德价值 that comes out of duty which gives the action moral worth. 因此，在这种情况下 So, it's like, for example in this case, 他可能有一个以上的动机 he might have more than one motive, 他可能有不想做可恶的人 he might have the motive of not feeling like a slime 他可能有出自职责的、做正确的事情的动机 and he might have the motive of doing the right thing itself out of duty 因此，虽然这里有一个以上的动机 and so, while there's more than one motivation going on there 但并不意味着，行为就失去了道德价值 doesn't mean that the action is devoid of moral worth 只是因为他有另外一个动机 just because he has one other motive 因为是基于职责的动机，赋予行为的道德价值 because the motive which involves duty is what gives it the moral worth. 好的。什么是你的名字： Good. And what's your name: Judith。 Judith. Judith，我觉得你的解释符合康德的想法 Well Judith, I think that your account actually is true to Kant. 拥有情绪和感受没有错 It's fine to have sentiments and feelings 只要它们不是支持你做正确的事 that support doing the right thing provided they don't provide 的原因 the reason for acting. 所以，我认为Judith 为康德提出了一个很好的辩护 So, I think Judith actually has mounted a pretty good defense of Kant 这个关于职责的动机的问题 on this question of the motive of duty. 谢谢 Thank you. 现在，让我们回到三组对比物 Now, let's go back to the three contrasts. 很明显，当康德说， It's clear at least what Kant means when he says 为了使行为具有道德价值，它为了职责而做的， that for an action to have moral worth, it must be done for the sake of duty, 而不是出于偏好 not out of inclination. 但是，正如我们上次那样 But as we began to see last time, 康德严格的道德观和 there's a connection between Kant's stringent notion of morality 他那尤为严格的自由观之间，是有联系的 and his specially demanding understanding of freedom. 这就是我们的第二组对比 And that leads us to the second contrast, 道德和自由之间的联系 the link between morality and freedom 第二组对立物，描述了决定我的意志 The second contrast describes two different ways 的两种不同方法 that my will can be determined; 自主 和 他律 autonomously and heteronomously. 根据康德，只有当我的意志是自主决定时，我才是自由的 According to Kant, I'm only free when my will is determined autonomously. 这意味着什么？ Which means what? 根据我给自己定下的准则 According to a law that I give myself， 我们必须有能力，如果我们有自主的能力 we must be capable, if we're capable of freedom as autonomy, 我们必须有不遵循外加的或强加 we must be capable of acting according not to a law 给我们的准则的能力 that's given or imposed on us 而是遵循，我们给自己定下的准则 but according to a law we give ourselves. 但是，在这样的法则从哪里来？ But where could such a law come from? 这种我们给自己设定的法则 A law that we give ourselves. 是理性 Reason. 如果理性决定了我的意志 If reason determines my will 那么我的意志将成为不依赖于自然规定 then the will becomes a power to choose independent of the dictates of nature 或偏好和外部情况的力量 or inclination or circumstance. 因此，连接康德严格的道德观和自由观的 So, connected with Kant's demanding notions of morality and freedom 就是这种定义严格的理性 is a specially demanding notion of reason. 那么，理性如何决定意志？ Well, how can reason determine the will? 有两种方法，而这也引出了第三组对比 There are two ways and this leads to the third contrast. 康德说，理性有两种不同的律令 Kant says there are two different commands of reason 其中一种律令，康德称之为“命令” and a command of reason Kant calls an imperative “命令”就是应该 an imperative is simply an ought. 有一种命令，也许是最熟悉的一种 One kind of imperative, perhaps the most familiar kind, 就是“假言命令” is a hypothetical imperative. 假言命令是工具性的理性 Hypothetical imperatives use instrumental reason. 如果你想要X，就做出行为Y If you want x then do y. 它是目的-手段的推理 It's means-ends reasoning. 如果你想有一个良好的商业信誉，那就不要少找你的客户零钱 If you want a good business reputation then don't shortchange your customers, 因为事情（的真相）会传出去 word may get out. 这是一个假言命令 That's a hypothetical imperative. “如果该行为是实现目的的手段 "If the action would be good solely as a means to something else," 康德写道，“这个就是假言命令。 Kant writes, "the imperative is hypothetical. 如果行为本身是好的 If the action is represented as good in itself 因此这个意志本身就符合理性 and therefore is necessary for a will which of itself accords with reason, 那么，它就是“定言命令” （或译作绝对命令） then the imperative is categorical." 这就是“定言命令”和 That's the difference between a categorical imperative “假言命令”的区别 and a hypothetical one. 定言命令是绝对性的 A categorical imperative commands categorically, 这就意味着，它不参考或依赖任何其他目的 which just means without reference to or dependence on any further purpose 所以，你看到 and so you see the connection 这三组平行的对立物之间的联系 among these three parallel contrasts. 为了获得自由，在自主的范畴内 To be free, in the sense of autonomous, 需要我的行为，不是出于“假言命令” requires that I act not out of a hypothetical imperative 而是出于“定言命令” but out of a categorical imperative. 所以，通过看康德的这3组对立体 And so you see by these three contrasts Kant reasons his way, 引导我们推导出“定言命令” brings us up to his derivation of the categorical imperative. 那么，这给我们留下一个大问题： Well, this leaves us one big question: 什么是“定言命令”？ what is the categorical imperative? 什么是道德的最高原则？ What is the supreme principle of morality? 它命令什么？ What does it command of us? 康德列举了“定言命令”的三个版本 Kant gives three versions, three formulations, 三种陈述 of the categorical imperative. 我想提其中的两种，然后看看你对它们怎么看 I want to mention two and then see what you think of them. 第一个版本，第一种表述 The first version, the first formula, 他称之为，普遍法则 he calls the formula of the universal law; “如果在同一时间所有人都会遵循某个法则 "Act only on that maxim whereby you can at the same time will 那么，它应该是普遍法则。” that it should become a universal law." “某个法则”，是指什么？ And by maxim, what does Kant mean? 他是指，能解释你做事情的原因 He means a rule that explains the reason for what you're doing, 的一个原则 a principle. 例如，守信用 For example, promise keeping. 假设我需要钱，我极度地需要100元 Suppose I need money, I need $100 desperately 我知道我不可能还钱 and I know I can't pay it back anytime soon. 我来找你，给你承诺 I come to you and make you a promise, 一个虚假的承诺，一个我知道我不能遵守的承诺 a false promise, one I know I can't keep, “请借我钱，给我100元 "Please give me $100 today, lend me the money, 下周我会还给你“ I will repay you next week." 它与定言命令一致吗？ Is that consistent with the categorical imperative, 那个虚假的承诺？ that false promise? 康德说，不 Kant says no. 我们检验，我们决定 And the test, the way we can determine 那个承诺承诺是否与定言命令不一致 that the false promise is at odds with the categorical imperative 就是把它普遍化 is try to universalize it, 把它推广到你将要做的事 universalize the maxim upon which you're about to act. 如果每个人在需要钱的时候，都作出虚假承诺 If everybody made false promises when they needed money 那么，将会没人相信这些承诺 then nobody would believe those promises, 以后就不存在承诺这个东西 there would be no such thing as a promise, 所以，这里有矛盾 and so there would be a contradiction. 把这个准则普遍化时，却有悖它本身 The maxim universalized would undermine itself. 这是检验的方法 That's the test. 用这个方法，我们就可以知道虚假承诺是错误的 That's how we can know that the false promise is wrong. 那么，怎么看普遍法则呢？ Well what about the formula of the universal law? 你觉得它有说服力吗？ You find it persuasive? 你怎么看？请 What do you think? Go ahead. 我有个问题，关于“绝对的”和“假设的” I have a question about the difference between categoricalism 之间的区别，如果你要准备做一件事.... and a hypothesis that if you're going to act . . . “绝对的”和“假设的” Between categorical and hypothetical. 对，假设的 Hypothetical, yeah. 命令 Imperatives. 好。如果你按照“绝对命令”（即定言命令） Right. If you're going to act with a categorical imperative 这样，这个准则并不有悖它本身 so that the maxim doesn't undermine itself, 这听起来像我将要做X，因为我想Ÿ it sounds like I am going to do x because I want y, 但我迫切需要时，我不会撒谎，是因为我希望 I'm going to not lie in dire need because I want the world to function 这个世界还有承诺这个东西，并按承诺来运行 in such a way that promises are kept. 我不想看到 承诺的消失 I don't want to liquidate the practice of promises. 对，这听起来像，目的把手段合理化 Right, it sounds like justifying a means by an ends. 这似乎像是结果主义推理的方式（第1集提到 结果主义） It seems like an instance of consequentialist reasoning, 你是说。 - 好的。 you're saying. -- Right. - 而你叫什么名字？ - Tim。 -- And what's your name? -- Tim. Tim，约翰·密尔同意你的看法 （第3集提到的哲学家） Well Tim, John Stewart Mill agreed with you. 他批评康德 He made this criticism of Kant. 他说：“如果我将这一准则普遍化，然后发现 He said, "If I universalize the maxim and find that the whole practice 如果大家都这样，承诺就会消失 of promise keeping would be destroyed if universalized, 如果这就是不作出虚假的承诺的理由 I must be appealing somehow to consequences 我肯定是多少在意它的结果” if that's the reason not to tell a false promise." 因此，约翰·密尔同意这样批评康德 So, John Stewart Mill agreed with that criticism against Kant 但约翰·密尔错了 but John Stewart Mill was wrong. 不过，你有（密尔）这个好的队友，Tim。 You're in good company though. You're in good company, Tim. 康德经常想，就像Tim把康德理解为 Kant has often read, as Tim just read him, 他在意（行为的）后果 （之前提到只看重动机，不看重结果） as appealing to consequences. 如果每个人都说谎，世界将会更糟糕 The world would be worse off if everybody lied 因为那时，没人会相信其他人说的话 because then no one could rely on anybody else's word 因此，你不应该说谎 therefore you shouldn't lie. 这不是康德真正的意思 That's not what Kant is saying exactly. 虽然，很容易把康德的话说理解 Although, it's easy to interpret him as saying that. 我认为，他想说的是，这是检验的方法 I think what he's saying is that this is the test, 这是检验这一准则是否和 this is the test of whether the maxim corresponds 定言命令一致的方法 with the categorical imperative. 这是不真正的原因，这不是 It isn't exactly the reason, it's not the reason, 你把你的准则普遍化，以此来检验 the reason you should universalize to test your maxim 你的特定需要和欲望是否，高于其他人的需要 is to see whether you are privileging your particular needs and desires （这不是你这样做的原因） over everybody else's. 这只是 It's a way of pointing to this feature, 定言命令的这一要求 this demand of the categorical imperative 你的行为的目的，不应建立在 that the reasons for your action shouldn't depend 把你的利益和需要合理化 for their justification on your interests, your needs, 把你的情况看成比别人的重要合理化 your special circumstances being more important than somebody else's. 我认为，这是这个检验方法背后的道德理念 That, I think, is the moral intuition lying behind the universalization test. 好的，让我接着把 So, let me spell out the second, 康德关于 Kant's second version of the categorical imperative, 比（之前的）普遍法则，更直观易懂的方式 perhaps in a way that's more intuitively accessible 来表述讲清楚 than the formula of universal law. 这是把人视作目的，的一种表述 It's the formula of humanity as an end. 康德用下面的陈述，来介绍 Kant introduces the second version of the categorical imperative 定言命令的第二个版本： with the following line of argument: “我们不能把定言命令 "We can't base the categorical imperative 建立在任何特定的利益、目标或目的，的基础之上 on any particular interests, purposes, or ends 因为那样，它只与人的目的有关 because then it would be only relative to the person whose ends they were. 然而，假设有一些东西，它的存在本身就 But suppose, however, there was something whose existence has in itself 具有绝对的价值....其自身就是目的... an absolute value . . . an end in itself . . . 在其本身，单单是它本身 then in it, and in it alone, 而这会是定言命令的基础” would there be the ground of a possible categorical imperative." 那么，有什么我们能想到的 Well, what is there that we can think of 其本身具有的终结？ as having its end in itself? 康德的答案是，“我说，人 Kant's answer is this, "I say that man, 一个理性的人，其本身就是目的 and in general every rational being, exists as an end in himself, 而不只是被其他意志任意利用的手段” not merely as a means for arbitrary use by this or that will." 在这里，康德区分人 And here Kant distinguishes between persons on the one hand 与物 and things on the other. 人是理性的存在 Rational beings are persons, 他不像其他物体一样，只是有相对价值 they don't just have a relative value for us 他还有绝对的价值 but if anything has they have an absolute value, 内在的价值，即理性的人拥有尊严 an intrinsic value, that is rational beings have dignity. 他们值得崇敬或尊重 They're worthy of reverence or respect. 这种推理引出了康德关于定言命令的 This line of reasoning leads Kant to the second formulation 第二种表述，如下： of the categorical imperative which is this: “你总是以下这种方式行事，你总是把人 "Act in such a way that you always treat humanity, 不管是你自己的，或者是其他人的 whether in your own person or in the person of any other, 你从不把它简单地视作一种手段 never simply as a means, 但你同时把它看作目的“ but always at the same time, as an end." 这就是（第二种）表述：把人视作目的 So, that's the formula of humanity as an end, 作为理性的存在，人本身即是目的 the idea that human beings as rational beings are ends in themselves, 而不是被用来使用的手段 not open to use merely as a means. 当我给你许下虚假的承诺 When I make a false promise to you, 我是在把你当作，实现我的目的的手段， I'm using you as a means to my ends, 实现我对100元的需要 to my desire for the $100, 那样我就是在不尊重你 and so I'm failing to respect you, 我不尊重你的尊严 I'm failing to respect your dignity, 我是在操纵你 I'm manipulating you. 现在，思考一下刚才反对自杀的例子 Now, consider the example of the duty against suicide. 谋杀和自杀，与定言命令不一致 Murder and suicide are at odds with the categorical imperative. 为什么？ Why? 如果我谋杀一个人，我是在拿走他们的生命，来达到某种目的 If I murder someone, I'm taking their life for some purpose, 或是因为我是一个职业杀手 either because I'm a hired killer 或是因为我被惹怒了 or I'm in the throes of some great anger passion, 我有某种利益，某种目的 I have some interest, some purpose, 这是把其他人当作手段来利用 that's particular for the sake which I'm using them as a means. 谋杀违反了定言命令 Murder violates the categorical imperative. 康德认为，从道德上来说，自杀与谋杀一样 For Kant, morally speaking, suicide is on a par with murder. 自杀等同于谋杀，因为我们违反了...， It's on a par with murder because what we violate when we take a life, 当我们拿走我们自己，或别人的生命时 when we take someone's life, ours or somebody else's, 我们把这个人，一个理性的人 we use that person, we use a rational being, 我们把人当作一种手段来使用 we use humanity as a means 我们没有尊重人，没有把人看作目的 and so we fail to respect humanity as an end. 这种理性的能力，人要求得到尊重的观念 And that capacity for reason, that humanity that commands respect, 就是尊严的基础 that is the ground of dignity, 这种人性，这种理性的能力 that humanity, that capacity for reason 无差别地存在于我们所有人身上 resides undifferentiated in all of us 所以，如果我自杀，或者谋杀拿走其他人的生命 and so I violate that dignity in my own person, if I commit suicide, 我就侵犯了我自己的尊严 and in murder if I take somebody else's life. 从道德的角度来看，它们是相同的 From a moral point of view they're the same 它们之所以是相同的，跟我们普遍具有的特性 and the reason they're the same has to do with the universal character 以及道德准则的基础，有关 and ground of the moral law. 我们要尊重他人的尊严，其原因 The reason that we have to respect the dignity of other people 跟他们没有任何关系 has not to do with anything in particular about them 尊重，康德所指的尊重，在这一点上，和爱不一样 and so respect, Kantian respect, unlike love in this way. 它不像同情 It's unlike sympathy. 它不像团结，友情，或利他主义 It's unlike solidarity or fellow feeling or altruism 因为，爱，以及其他一些特定的美德、 because love and those other particular virtues or reasons 对他人的关怀，都要看它们的对象是谁 for caring about other people have to do with who they are in particular. 而尊重，对于康德来说 But respect, for Kant, 尊重是对人类普遍共有的 respect is respect for humanity which is universal, 普遍共有的理性的尊重 for a rational capacity which is universal, 这就是为什么，如果侵犯了我的尊严 and that's why violating it, in my own case, 跟侵犯其他人的尊重，是同样的让人反对 is as objectionable as violating it in the case of any other. 有问题或反对吗？ Questions or objections? 请。 Go ahead. 我想，我有担心，康德所说的 I guess I'm somewhat worried about Kant's statement 你不能把人当作一种手段来使用 that you cannot use a person as a means 因为每个人即是自己的目的 because every person is an end of themselves, 因为似乎每天 because it seems that everyday, 为了要完成一些事情 in order to get something accomplished for that day, 我必须把自己当作实现某种目的的手段 I must use myself as a means to some end 同样，我必须把我身边的人当作实现目的的手段 and I must use the people around me as a means to some end as well. 比如，假设我想拿个好成绩 For instance, suppose that I want to do well in a class 我要完成一篇论文 and I have to write a paper. 我得把自己的当作，完成论文的手段 I have to use myself as a means to write the paper. 假设我想买一些，例如食物 Suppose I want to buy something, food, 我必须去商店，把收款员当作 I must go to the store and use the person working behind the counter 一种手段来买到我的食物 as a means for me to purchase my food. 对。确实如此 Right. That's true, you do. 你叫什么名字？ What's your name? Patrick. Patrick Patrick.，你没做错任何事情 Patrick, you're not doing anything wrong. 你没有违反定言命令 You're not violating the categorical imperative 当你把其他人当作手段时 when you use other people as means, 这不是不允许的 that's not objectionable 只要我们与其他人打交道时 provided when we deal with other people 我们的目的是，为了完成我们共同的的工作、目的和和利益 for the sake of advancing our projects and purposes and interests, 大家也都这样做 which we all do, 只要我们对待他们的方式， provided we treat them in a way that is consistent 尊重到他们的尊严 with respect for their dignity 怎么尊重他们 and what it means to respect them 是由定言命令来给出的 is given by the categorical imperative. 你同意吗？ Are you persuaded? 你同意，康德给了一个令人信服的解释 Do you think that Kant has given a compelling account, 一个关于道德的最高原则的、有说服力的解释吗？ a persuasive account, of the supreme principle of morality? 重读了《道德的形而上学基础》，我们将在下次回答这个问题 Reread the groundwork and we'll try to answer that question next time.
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What's the Right Thing to Do - Lecture 5 Avoiding the Draft and Avoiding Parenthood
雇来的枪手 Hired Guns 在上一讲结束时，我们讨论到洛克关于 When we ended last time, we were discussing 在同意基础上所建立的政府，问题就出来了 Locke's idea of government by consent and the question arose, “是什么限制了政府的权力， "What are the limits on government that even the agreement 使得即便多数人同意，也不能侵犯它？” of the majority can't override?"
这是我们上次结束时的问题 That was the question we ended with. 我们讨论了财产权的问题 We saw in the case of property rights 以洛克的观点来看，由民主选举出来的政府 that on Locke's view a democratically elected government 有权向人民征税 has the right to tax people. 政府征税应经过人民的同意 It has to be taxation with consent 因为这的确涉及到，为了公共利益 because it does involve the taking of people's property 而拿走个人的财产。然而征税的时候 for the common good but it doesn't require the consent 并没要求征求每个独立个体的意见 of each individual at the time the tax is enacted or collected. 它只要求人们在进入社会前 What it does require is a prior act of consent 要事先征求同意，并承担一些政治义务 to join the society, to take on the political obligation 而一旦你承担了这些义务，你就同意了接受多数人的约束 but once you take on that obligation, you agree to be bound by the majority. 这些就是关于征税的讨论。但你也许会问 So much for taxation. But what you may ask, 对于生命权又会怎样？政府可以征兵 about the right to life? Can the government conscript people 并把人们送到战场么？ and send them into battle? 又如何解释我们拥有自己这一观点？（上一集讨论过的观点） And what about the idea that we own ourselves? 如果政府能够通过强制立法和执行其权力 Isn't the idea of self-possession violated if the government can, 这不是违背了我们拥有自己吗？ through coercive legislation and enforcement powers, say 例如政府说，“你要冒生命危险去打伊拉克” "You must go risk your life to fight in Iraq." 洛克会怎么说？ What would Locke say? 政府是否有权这样做？ Does the government have the right to do that? 是的，事实上他在第139节说到 Yes. In fact he says in 139, he says, “重要的是政治机关或军事当局 "What matters is that the political authority or the military authority 不是专制的，这是问题的关键” not be arbitrary, that's what matters." 同时他也给了一个很有说服力的例证 And he gives a wonderful example. 他说：“即便是一名中士，更不用说是一位将军 He says "A sergeant, even a sergeant, let alone a general, 也可以命令士兵，迎着大炮而上 a sergeant can command a soldier to go right up to a face of a cannon 这位士兵将必死无疑，但中士有权要求他这样做 where he is almost sure to die, that the sergeant can do. 将军甚至可以给那些擅离职守，或不服从命令的士兵 The general can condemn the soldier to death for deserting his post 判处死刑 or for not obeying even a desperate order. 尽管他们拥有生杀大权，但 But with all their power over life and death, what these officers can't do 他们却没权拿走该士兵的一分一厘 is take a penny of that soldier's money because that has nothing to do 因为这种做法是不合法的 with the rightful authority, 因为这是主观武断的，腐败的 that would be arbitrary and it would be corrupt." 因此，同意在洛克的理论中变得非常重要 So consent winds up being very powerful in Locke, 这种同意不是指，个体对税收或军令的同意 not consent of the individual to the particular tax or military order, 而是一开始同意加入政府、 but consent to join the government and to be bound 受大多数人的约束 by the majority in the first place. 这就是同意的关键所在，而且它重要到 That's the consent that matters and it matters so powerfully 即使是建立在我们所拥有天赋的 that even the limited government created by the fact 生存权、自由权以及财产权这一事实上的有限政府 that we have an unalienable right to life, liberty, and property, 即便这个有限政府也只是受限于 even that limited government is only limited in the sense 普遍适用的法律、法规 that it has to govern by generally applicable laws, 而且不能是专制的。这就是洛克的理论 the rule of law, it can't be arbitrary. That's Locke. 那么这就引出了一个关于同意的问题： Well this raises a question about consent. 在建立政权和服从的义务时 Why is consent such a powerful moral instrument 为什么“同意”是如此一个强大的道德工具？ in creating political authority and the obligation to obey? 今天我们从一个具体的征兵案例 Today we begin to investigate the question of consent 来探讨“同意”的问题 by looking at a concrete case, the case of military conscription. 也许有人会问，因为我们拥有自己 Now some people say if we have a fundamental right 我们有一些基本的权利 that arises from the idea that we own ourselves, 那么政府征兵去参战就是对这一权利的侵犯 it's a violation of that right for government to conscript citizens 有人则不同意这说法 to go fight in wars. Others disagree. 他们说，这是政府的合法权力 Others say that's a legitimate power of government, 不管怎样，这是民主选举的政府 of democratically elected governments, anyhow, 我们都有义务服从 and that we have an obligation to obey. 我们以美国攻打伊拉克为例 Let's take the case of the United States fighting a war in Iraq. 新闻报导告诉我们，军队在完成 News accounts tells us that the military is having great difficulty 招兵指标上有很大困难 meeting its recruitment targets. 看一下美国政府应对 Consider three policies that the U.S. government 无法完成招兵指标时 might undertake to deal with the fact 的三项对策 that it's not achieving its recruiting targets. 解决方案一：增加工资和福利 Solution number one: increase the pay and benefits 从而吸引足够数量的士兵 to attract a sufficient number of soldiers. 方案二：采用强制征兵体系 Option number two: shift to a system of military conscription, 用抽签法，谁抽中了 have a lottery, and whose ever numbers are drawn, 谁就要去伊拉克参战 go to fight in Iraq. 方案三：军事外包 System number three: outsource, hire what traditionally 聘请世界各地被称为“雇佣军”的人 have been called mercenaries, people around the world 那些合格的、有能力的 who are qualified, able to do the work, 仗打得好的，而且愿意接受 able to fight well, and who are willing to do it 现有的工资水平 for the existing wage. 让我们做个简短的投票 So let's take a quick poll here. 多少人倾向于增加开支？ How many favor increasing the pay? 相当多的人 A huge majority. 多少人赞成强制征兵体系？ How many favor going to conscription? 在这个屋里，也许有十几人选择强制征兵 Maybe a dozen people in the room favor conscription. 那外包的解决方案呢？ What about the outsourcing solution? 好了，大约有两三十人 Okay, so there may be two, three dozen. 在内战期间，北方军利用 During the Civil War, the Union used a combination 强制征兵和市场体系相组合的方法 of conscription and the market system to fill the ranks of the military 来填补军队士兵的空缺 to fight in the Civil War. 一开始，这是一个强制征兵的系统 It was a system that began with conscription 但如果你被抽中，而又不想去 but if you were drafted and didn't want to serve, 你可以雇佣别人顶替你去 you could hire a substitute to take your place 很多人这样做 and many people did. 你可以根据市场，来付钱为了找人顶替 You could pay whatever the market required 人们在报纸上打广告 in order to find a substitute, people ran ads in newspapers, 在分类广告栏，标价500美元，有时甚至1000美元 in the classified ads offering 500 dollars, sometimes 1000 dollars, 来找人顶替自己 for a substitute who would go fight the Civil War 去参战 in their place. 事实上，据报道，安德鲁 卡内基 In fact, it's reported that Andrew Carnegie 被征召了，他只用了比他一年花在 was drafted and hired a substitute to take his place 高级雪茄上还少些的钱 for an amount that was a little less 就雇佣到了顶替他服役的人 than the amount he spent in the year on fancy cigars. 现在我想听听，你们对内战时兵役制的看法 Now I want to get your views about this Civil War system, 我们暂且叫它“混合制”，强制征兵+市场交易 call it the hybrid system, conscription but with a buyout provision. 多少人认为这是一个公平的制度 How many think it was a just system? 多少人会捍卫南北战争时实施的这一制度？ How many would defend the Civil War system? 有人吗？还有吗？ Anybody? Anybody else? 多少人认为这是不公正的？ How many think it was unjust? 你们中大多数人不喜欢这一制度 Most of you don't like the Civil War system, 你们认为这是不公正的 you think it's unjust. 我们来听听反对的声音。你为什么不喜欢它？ Let's hear an objection. Why don't you like it? 这有什么不好呢？请 What's wrong with it? Yes. 支付300美元，就豁免一次 Well, by paying $300 to be exempt one time around, 你其实是在用金钱，来衡量生命的价值 you're really putting a price on valuing human life 我们之前确定了，人的生命很难用金钱衡量 and we established earlier, that's really hard to do 因此，他们是在完成不可行的事情 so they're trying to accomplish something that really isn't feasible. 因此，支付300、500或1000美元 Good. So paying someone $300 or $500 or $1,000 –
你实质上是在衡量他们生命的价值 You're basically saying that's what their life is worth to you. 这就是他们生命的价格，这是在给他们的生命标价 That's what their life is worth, it's putting a dollar value on life. -很好，你叫什么名字？-Liz That's good. What's your name? -Liz. Liz Liz. 那么，谁能回答Liz的问题 Well, who has an answer for Liz. 你要为这个征兵制辩护，你会怎么说？ You defended the Civil War system, what do you say? 如果你不喜欢价格，那么你有选择是否 If you don't like the price then you have the freedom 被雇佣的自由。这完全取决于你 to not be sold or hired so it's completely up to you. 我不认为，为你贴上特定的价格是必须的 I don't think it's necessarily putting a specific price 如果这是他自己贴上去的，我不认为这 on you and if it's done by himself, I don't think there's anything 在道义上，有什么错误 that's really morally wrong with that. 而那个收下了500美元的人 So the person who takes the $500, 我们可以说，他是在对自己的生命估价 let's say, he's putting his own price on his life 或者在为自己生命的风险估价， or on the risk of his life and he should have the freedom 他有选择那样做的自由 to choose to do that. 没错 Exactly. 你叫什么名字？- Jason What's your name? - Jason. Jason，谢谢你现在我们要听听 Jason. Thank you. Now we need to hear 另一个批评者的意见，请 from another critic of the civil war system. Yes. 对那些低收入者而言，这是几乎就是一种强制 It's a kind of coercion almost, people who have lower incomes, 对卡内基来说，他完全可以不理会这次征兵。300美元对他而言 for Carnegie he can totally ignore the draft, $300 is an irrelevant 是小数字。但对那些低收入者而言 in terms of his income but someone of a lower income, 他们基本上是强迫被征召 they're essentially being coerced to draft, to be drafted, 很可能，他们找不到人来顶替 it's probably they're not able to find a replacement. 告诉我你的名字 Tell me your name. Sam. Sam Sam，你说的是Sam，如果一个贫穷的劳动者 Sam. All right so you say, Sam, that when a poor laborer 为了300美元，而参加内战，他实际上是被强迫的 accepts $300 to fight in the Civil War, he is in effect being coerced 鉴于他的经济状况 by that money given his economic circumstances 而卡内基可以置身事外，付钱就不用服兵役 whereas Carnegie can go off, pay the money, and not serve. 好吧，我想听听其他人对Sam的回复 Alright. I want to hear someone who has a reply to Sam's argument, 这个看起来是自由交易，但实际上是某种形式的强迫 that what looks like a free exchange is actually coercive. 谁能回答Sam的问题，请 Who has an answer to Sam? Go ahead. 其实我同意Sam的说法 I'd actually agree with him in saying that –
你同意Sam You agree with Sam. 我同意他说，正是因为强迫，抢走了我们的理智 I agree with him in saying that it is coercion in the sense that it robs individual of his ability to reason. 好的，你叫什么名字？ Okay, and what's your name? Raul Raul. 好了，那么Raul和Sam一致认为 All right. So Raul and Sam agree that what looks 看起来像是自由交易、自由选择、自愿的行为 like a free exchange, free choice, voluntary act 其实有强迫的因素在里面 actually involves coercion. 这是一种最为恶劣的极度强迫 It's profound coercion of the worst kind 因为征兵的任务，不来成比例地落到了社会的某个阶层 because it falls so disproportionately upon one segment of the society. 很好，那么Raul和Sam得出了一个强有力的观点 Good. Alright. So Raul and Sam have made a powerful point. 谁愿意对此进行回应？ Who would like to reply? 谁能回答Raul和Sam？ Who has an answer for Sam and Raul? Go ahead. 我不认为这个招兵体系 I don't think that these drafting systems 和志愿服役体制 are really terribly different from all-volunteer army 有多么不同 sort of recruiting strategies. 整个关于支付人们去当兵的想法 The whole idea of having benefits and pay for joining the army 是一种强迫人们服兵役的策略 is sort of a coercive strategy to get people to join. 诚然，应招的志愿者，不成比例地 It is true that military volunteers come from disproportionately 来自低收入者和国家的某些特定区域 lower economic status and also from certain regions of the country 你也可以用类似爱国主义的说法，来试图让人们觉得 where you can use like patriotism to try and coerce people 自愿当兵到伊拉克，是件正确的事情 to feel like it's the right thing to do to volunteer and go over to Iraq. 告诉我你的名字 And tell me your name. Emily Emily. 好的，Emily说， Alright, Emily says, and Raul you're going to have to Raul 你得准备对此进行回应 reply to this so get ready. Emily说，不错，内战征兵体制中有强迫性的因素 Emily says fair enough, there is a coercive element 当一个劳动者为了500美元，顶替了卡内基 to the Civil War system when a laborer takes the place Emily 承认这点 of Andrew Carnegie for $500. Emily concedes that but she says 但她说，如果你批评南北战争时的制度 if that troubles you about the Civil War system 你不也应该指责现行的兵役制度吗？ shouldn't that also trouble you about the volunteer army today? 在你回答前，你在第一轮投票时选了什么？ Before you answer, how did you vote in the first poll? 你有赞成志愿服役制吗？我没有表决 Did you defend the volunteer army? I didn't vote. 你没有表决。顺便问一下， You didn't vote. By the way, 你没有表决，但你有将投票权 you didn't vote but did you sell your vote 出售给你身旁的人吗？没有。好吧 to the person sitting next to you? No. Alright. 那么，你对那论点怎么看？ So what would you say to that argument. 我认为，两者情况不一样 I think that the circumstances are different in that 南北战争时，有征兵体制 there was conscription in the Civil War. 今天制度不一样。我想，今天的志愿者 There is no draft today and I think that volunteers 有更为深刻的爱国主义意识 for the army today have a more profound sense of patriotism 与内战中被迫参战的人相比 that is of an individual choice than those who were forced 这更多是一种个人自愿 into the military in the Civil War. 怎样 更少的强迫？ Somehow less coerced? 更少的强迫 Less coerced. 即使美国社会仍然有不平等 Even though there is still inequality in American Society? 即使，就如Emily所指出那样 Even though, as Emily points out, the makeup of the American military 美国军队的组成，并不是整个美国人口的反映 is not reflective of the population as a whole? 我们在此做个调查。这里有多少人 Let's just do an experiment here. How many here have either served 或有家庭成员曾在军队服役 in the military or have a family member who has served in the military 就在这一代，不包括父母？ in this generation, not parents? 就这一代的家庭成员 Family members. In this generation. 有多少人，自己和兄弟姐妹都没在军队服役？ And how many have neither served nor have any brothers or sisters who have served? 这是否验证了你的观点，Emily？ Does that bear out your point Emily? 是的 Yes. 好的，现在我们需要听听。你们大多数人 Alright. Now we need to hear from – most of you defended the idea
都赞成志愿服役制。而且绝大多数人 of the all volunteer military overwhelmingly and yet overwhelmingly, 认为南北内战的征兵制度是不公正的 people considered the Civil War system unjust. Sam和Raul 讲了反对内战征兵制度的理由 Sam and Raul articulated reasons for objecting to the Civil War system, 它在不平等的背景下发生 it took place against a background of inequality 因此人们服兵役 and therefore the choices people made to buy their way in to military service 并非真正出于自愿，多多少少是被强迫的 were not truly free but at least partly coerced. 接着，Emily 将这一争论，更加挑明 Then Emily extends that argument in the form of a challenge. 好了，那些赞成志愿服役制的人 Alright, everyone here who voted in favor 票需要解释一下 of the all-volunteer army should be able – should have to explain
这在原则上有什么不同 what's the difference in principle. 志愿服役制，和几乎每个人反对的 Doesn't the all-volunteer army simply universalize the feature 内战兵役制，不是有很多相同点吗？ that almost everyone found objectionable in the Civil War buyout provision? 我阐述得对吗，Emily？ Did I state the challenge fairly Emily? 是的 Yes. 好了，我们要听听，志愿服役制的辩护者 Okay. So we need to hear from a defender 看看他们怎么回应Emily的质疑 of the all volunteer military who can address Emily's challenge. 谁能？请 Who can do that? Go ahead. 志愿服役制和南北征兵体制的不同之处在于 The difference between the Civil War system and the all-volunteer army system 在南北战争时，你不是被政府雇佣 is that in the Civil War, you're being hired not by the government, 而是被个人雇佣，因此不同的人，雇佣不同的人 but by an individual and as a result, different people who get hired 支付的也不同 by different individuals get paid different amounts. 而志愿服役制，士兵都是被政府雇佣 In the case of the all-volunteer army, everyone who gets hired 并得到相同数额的支付 is hired by the government and gets paid the same amount. 你同等地支付人们去参军 It's precisely the universalization of essentially paying your way 这使得志愿服役制变得公平 to the army that makes the all-volunteer army just. Emily? Emily？ 我想，我的表述稍有不同 I guess I'd frame the principle slightly differently. 在志愿服役制中，有人可以置身事外 On the all-volunteer army, it's possible for somebody 完全不去考虑战争 to just step aside and not really think 有人可能这样说 about the war at all. It's possible to say, “我不需要钱，我不必对此有何意见” "I don't need the money, I don't need to have an opinion about this, “我不必对参军和保卫国家负有义务” I don't need to feel obligated to take my part and defend my country. 而强迫性的征兵制，明确写着的征兵 With the coercive system, or sorry, with an explicit draft 这是一种威胁，面对征兵制 then there's the threat at least that every individual 每一个人都不得不做出某种的决定 will have to make some sort of decision 也许就因为这样 regarding military conscription and perhaps in that way, 志愿服役制就会更为公平些 it's more equitable. 的确，如果不是在征兵制度下，卡内基可以不用参军 It's true that Andrew Carnegie might not serve in any case but in one, 他可以完全抽身事外，但在志愿服役制下，则带有某种责任 he can completely step aside from it, and the other there's some level of responsibility. 如果是你，Emily，你倾向于哪种制度，是征兵制吗？ While you're there, Emily, so what system do you favor, conscription? 硬是要表态的话，我想我倾向 志愿服役制 I would be hard pressed to say but I think so 因为它让国民们都感到一定的责任感 because it makes the whole country feel a sense of responsibility 而不是战争来了 for the conflict instead of having a war 只有少数人在思想上支持，但没有真正承担起责任来 that's maybe ideologically supported by a few but only if there's no real responsibility. 很好，谁想回应？请继续 Good. Who wants to reply? Go ahead. 我想指出完全志愿兵役制 So I was going to say that the fundamental difference 和南北内战兵役制的根本区别在于 between the all-volunteer army and then the army in the Civil War 在志愿服役制中，首先是你志愿参加 is that in the all-volunteer army, if you want to volunteer 然后才是报酬 that comes first and then the pay 而在内战征兵制中 comes after whereas in the Civil War system, 那些，接受报酬的人 the people who are accepting the pay 并不一是想参军的 aren't necessarily doing it because they want to, 他们这样做，首先是为了钱 they're just doing it for the money first. 你认为，在志愿服役制中，除了工资外 What motivation beyond the pay do you think is operating 大家参军还有什么动机？ in the case of the all-volunteer army? 比如爱国主义 Like patriotism for the country. 爱国主义，那么 Patriotism. Well what about –
保卫国家的愿望 And a desire to defend the country. 的确一部分是为了钱。但事实是，我想 There is some motivation in pay but the fact that it's first and foremost 爱国是首要和最重要的动机 an all-volunteer army will motivate first I think, personally. 你认为它更好吗？告诉我你的名字 Do you think it's better? And tell me your name. Jackie Jackie Jackie，你认为人们出于爱国主义 Jackie do you think it's better if people serve in the military 而不仅仅为了钱，是否更好？ out of a sense of patriotism than just for the money? 是的，毫无疑问是....南北内战中有个主要问题 Yes, definitely because the people who – that was one of the main problems
就是那些人 in the Civil War is that the people 那些参战的人民 that you're getting to go in it to go to war 他们并不一定是想打仗的 aren't necessarily people who want to fight 所以，他们不像那些真想参军的人那样 and so they won't be as good soldiers as they will be 成为好士兵 had they been there because they wanted to be. 好的，怎么看Jackie提出的爱国主义问题 Alright, what about Jackie's having raised the question of patriotism, 爱国主义是一种比金钱 that patriotism is a better or a higher motivation 更好或更崇高的动机 than money for military service. 谁来问答这个问题？，请 Who would like to address that question? Go ahead. 爱国主义绝对不是成为一个好士兵的必要条件 Patriotism absolutely is not necessary in order to be a good soldier 因为雇佣军也照样做好他们的工作 because mercenaries can do just as good of a job 像那些挥舞着美国国旗的士兵一样保卫国家 as anyone who waves the American flag around and wants to defend 正如政府想要的那样 what the government believes that we should do. 你喜欢外包解决方案？ Did you favor the outsourcing solution? 是的 Yes sir. 好的，让Jackie回应一下。你叫什么名字？ Alright, so let Jackie respond. What's your name? Philip Philip. 你怎么看，Jackie？爱国主义 What about that Jackie? So much for patriotism. 如果你找到了一些全身心投入的人 If you've got someone whose heart is in it 他们会做得比其他人更好 more than another person, they're going to do a better job. 当人们走投无路，例如碰上 When it comes down to the wire and there's like a situation 要把生命押上的情形时 in which someone has to put their life on the line, 那些因为爱国才参战的人 someone who's doing it because they love this country 比那些为了钱的人，更愿意深入险境 will be more willing to go into danger 为了钱的人不关心这些 than someone who's just getting paid, they don't care, 他们能力是有的，但他们不关心发生了什么 they've got the technical skills but they don't care what happens 因为他们确实，他们没有 because they really have – they have nothing
不在乎这个国家 like nothing invested in this country. 但另一方面，一旦我们牵涉到爱国主义 There's another aspect though once we get on to the issue of patriotism. 如果你和Jackie一样，相信爱国主义 If you believe patriotism, as Jackie does, 是最重要的考虑因素，而非金钱 should be the foremost consideration and not money, 这是否在支持或反对，我们现行的军队领取工资呢？ does that argue for or against the paid army we have now? 尽管我们称之为"志愿军"，但如果你想想 We call it the volunteer army though if you think about it, 这其实是名不副实。我们叫它“志愿军” that's a kind of misnomer. A volunteer army as we use the term, 但其实是有偿的军队 is a paid army. 爱国精神而非金钱，应该是 So what about the suggestion that patriotism should be 服兵役的主要动机，你对此作何评价？ the primary motivation for military service not money? 这一争论是否是支持我们现行的付费兵役制 Does that argue in favor of the paid military 还是支持志愿兵役制？ that we have or does it argue for conscription? 我们来强化基于Phil 所说的军事外包的观点 And just to sharpen that point building on Phil's case for outsourcing, 如果你认为志愿服役制，这种付费的兵役 if you think that the all-volunteer army, the paid army, 是最好的，因为它根据人们的偏好、为一定的工资 is best because it lets the market allocate positions 而服役的意愿，让市场来调节职位 according to people's preferences and willingness to serve 是不是这个逻辑，把你 for a certain wage, doesn't the logic that takes you 从征兵制转移到南北内战的混合制 from a system of conscription to the hybrid Civil War system 再到志愿服役制来吗？ to the all-volunteer army, doesn't the idea of expanding 这个扩大市场中自由选择的想法难道不是如果你一贯地坚持这个原则，难道它不是 freedom of choice in the market, doesn't that lead you 把你完全引导到雇佣军体制上来吗？ all the way if you followed that principle consistently to a mercenary army? 如果你说不，Jackie说不 And then if you say no, Jackie says no, 爱国精神有其价值，如果是爱国精神 patriotism should count for something, doesn't that argue 这难道不是为返回征兵制而辩护 for going back to conscription if by patriotism, 你说公民的义务感？ you mean a sense of civic obligation? 让我们看看，我们是否能从这个讨论中走出来 Let's see if we can step back from the discussion 看看，我们已经学到的同意论 that we've had and see what we've learned 把它运用到市场交换中的效果 about consent as it applies to market exchange. 我们已经听到了两种观点，两种反对运用市场交换 We've really heard two arguments, two arguments against the use of markets 来配置军事服务的观点 and exchange in the allocation of military service. 其中一个论点是由Sam和Paul提出的 One was the argument raised by Sam and Raul, 该论点谈及强迫，反对的理由在于让市场 the argument about coercion, the objection that letting the market 分配兵役可能是不公平的 allocate military service may be unfair 甚至是不自由的，如果社会存在 and may not even be free if there's severe inequality 严重不平等，那些通过收了钱去服兵役的人 in the society so that people who buy their way into military service 并不是因为他们真的想去，而是因为他们没有什么经济机会 are doing so not because they really want to but because they have so few 服兵役是他们最好的选择 economic opportunities that that's their best choice Sam和Paul说，有强迫的因素在里面 and Sam and Raul say there's an element of coercion in that, 这是其中一个论点 that's one argument. 第二种论点，反对通过市场机制配置军事服务 Then there is a second objection to using the market 那就是，服兵役不应该 to allocate military service, that's the idea that military service 被视作是一种付钱工作 shouldn't be treated as just another job for pay 因为这紧密地关系到 爱国精神和公民义务 because it's bound up with patriotism and civic obligation. 这不同于 This is a different argument from the argument about 不公平、不平等以及强迫 unfairness and inequality and coercion, 它认为，也许 it's an argument that suggests that maybe 在涉及公民义务的地方，我们不应该由市场 where civic obligations are concerned, we shouldn't allocate 来分配责任和权利 duties and rights by the market. 现在，我们已经明确了这两大异议 Now we've identified two broad objections. 在评价这些异议时，我们需要了解什么？ What do we need to know to assess those objections? 先来评价第一��异议，关于强迫 To assess the first, the argument from 不平等、不公平，Sam，我得问 coercion, inequality, and unfairness, Sam, we need to ask 社会背景中，有什么不平等因素在破坏 what inequalities in the background conditions of society undermine 人们购买和出售其劳动的自由选择权？ the freedom of choices people make to buy and sell their labor, 这是问题一 question number one. 问题二：评估公民的义务，爱国主义 Question number two: to assess the civic obligation, patriotism. 我们要问，公民的义务是什么？ Argument: we have to ask what are the obligations of citizenship? 兵役是其中之一吗？ Is military service one of them or not? 作为公民，我们有什么义务？ What obligates us as citizens? 政治义务源自哪里？ What is the source of political obligation? 是否经过了同意，或者说，当我们共同生活在某个社会的时候 Is it consent or are there some civic obligations 我们是否负有一些公民义务，哪怕它没经过我们的同意？ we have, even without consent, for living and sharing in a certain kind of society? 我们还没有回答这两个问题 We haven't answered either of those questions 但我们今天对于内战兵役制 but our debate today about the Civil War system 和志愿服役制的讨论，至少引出了这些问题 and the all-volunteer army has at least raised them 而这些问题，我们将在未来的几周进行讨论 and those are questions we're going to return to in the coming weeks. 如果我们都按我们自己的想法判别问题，那么违法者将数不胜数。 ——约翰-西格尔琼森 If we were all to be judged by our thoughts, the hills would be swarming with outlaws. ——Johann Sigurjonsson
今天，我想把我们的注意力转到 Today I'd like to turn our attention and get your views about an argument 市场在人类生殖和生育中，所发挥的作用 over the role of markets in the realm of human reproduction and procreation. 现在在不育不孕诊所，人们刊登广告找捐卵者 Now with infertility clinics, people advertise for egg donors 在哈佛校报上，也不时 and from time to time, in the Harvard Crimson 有寻找捐卵者的广告，你们看到过吗？ ads appear for egg donors. Have you seen them? 几年前有个广告 There was one that ran a few years ago 它找的不是普通的捐卵者，广告中 that wasn't looking for just any egg donor, it was an ad that offered 贴出了巨额的报酬 a large financial incentive for an egg donor 要求该女性要聪明、健壮，至少5英尺10英寸以上 from a woman who was intelligent, athletic, at least 5'10", 而且SAT的分数要至少在1400以上 and with at least 1400 or above on her SATs. 你们觉得，这个愿意为这个登广告的人 How much do you think the person looking for this egg donor 愿意出多少钱？ was willing to pay for an egg from a woman of that description? 你猜是多少？1000美元？ What would you guess? A thousand dollars? 5万美元？10万？我把广告给你们看看 Fifteen thousand? Ten? I'll show you the ad. 5万美元买一个卵子，但要求优质卵子 Fifty thousand dollars for an egg but only a premium egg. 你对此有何感想？ What do you think about that? 在哈佛校报上和其他院校 Well there are also sometimes ads in the Harvard Crimson 登过找精子捐赠者的广告 and the other college newspapers for sperm donors. 因此，捐精捐卵的市场是一个机会均等的市场 So the market in reproductive capacities is an equal opportunity market. 也许不算完全平等，因为没有人出过5万美元要精子 Well not exactly equal opportunity, they're not offering $50,000 for sperm 有一个公司，一个大型的商业精子银行 but there is a company, a large commercial sperm bank 以精子交易为主要业务，叫做加州Cryobank that markets sperm, it's called California Cryobank, 这是一家营利性公司。该公司对收集的精子 it's a for-profit company, it imposes exacting standards 制定了严格的标准，它在剑桥市，即哈佛和麻省理工之间 on the sperm it recruits, and it has offices in Cambridge, 以及靠近斯坦福的帕洛阿尔托，都设有办公室 between Harvard and MIT, and in Palo Alto near Stanford. Cryobank的推销资料鼓吹，它的精子出其不凡 Cryobank's marketing materials play up the prestigious source of its sperm. 这里，在Cryobank公司的网站上有这些信息 Here is, from the website of Cryobank, the information. 这里他们谈到了报酬 Here they talk about the compensation 尽管报酬不应该是精子捐赠者 although compensation should not be the only reason 的唯一理由，我们都知道要成为一名捐赠者 for becoming a sperm donor, we are aware of the considerable time 要付出时间和精力 and expense involved in being a donor. 你知道他们出价多少吗？每捐一个，捐赠者可得75美元 So do you know what they offer? Donors will be reimbursed $75 per specimen, 如果每周捐3次的话，一个月最多能“赚”900美元 up to $900 a month if you donate three times a week, 他们还补充说：“我们为那些花了额外的时间和精力 and then they add "We periodically offer incentives 的捐赠者的伴侣，提供定期奖励 such as movie tickets or gift certificates for the extra time and effort 比如电影票和礼券” expended by participating donors." 成为精子捐赠者并不容易 It's not easy to be a sperm donor. 他们的申请通过率低于5% They accept fewer than five percent of the donors who apply. 他们的准入标准，比哈佛还严格 Their admission criteria are more demanding than Harvard's. 精子银行的高层说，理想的精子捐献者 The head of the sperm bank said the ideal sperm donor 要有6英尺高，具备大学学历，金色的头发，棕色的眼睛 is 6 feet tall, with a college degree, brown eyes, blond hair, 和酒窝，理由很简单，市场反映 and dimples for the simple reason that these are the traits 这些特征都是顾客想要的 that the market has shown that customers want. 引用这位高层的话，“如果我们的客户想要高中辍学者的精子 Quoting the head of the sperm bank, "If our customers wanted high school dropouts, 我们就为他提供高中辍学者的精子” we would give them high school dropouts." 因此，这里有两个实例，卵子捐献 So here are two instances, the market in eggs for donation 和精子捐献市场，这就引出了一个问题 and the market in sperm, that raise a question, 那就是卵子和精子 a question about whether eggs and sperm 应不应该进行买卖 should or should not be bought and sold for money. 在你思考这个问题时，我希望你们看一下 As you ponder that, I want you to consider 另一个涉及市场交易的案例。它涉及到一份 another case involving market and in fact a contract 关于人类生殖的合同。这个事件是关于 in the human reproductive capacity and this is the case 商业化的代孕 of commercial surrogate motherhood, and it's a case that wound up 在几年前，最终闹上了法庭 in court some years ago. 这是一个关于宝贝M 的故事 It's the story of Baby M. 一对年轻的职场夫妇，威廉和伊丽莎白·斯特恩 It began with William and Elizabeth Stern, a professional couple wanting a baby 但他们没有自己的孩子 but they couldn't have one on their own, 斯特恩夫人若有怀孕，可能会有风险 at least not without medical risk to Mrs. Stern. 他们来到了不育不孕诊所，在那遇到了玛丽·贝思·怀特黑德 They went to an infertility clinic where they met Mary Beth Whitehead, 她是一位环卫工人的妻子，29岁，有2个孩子 a 29-year-old mother of two, the wife of a sanitation worker. 她应寻找代孕母亲的广告而来 She had replied to an ad that The Stern had placed seeking the service 他们达成了协议 of a surrogate mother. They made a deal. 他们签了一份合同，威廉斯特恩夫妇 They signed a contract in which William Stern 同意向玛丽·贝思·怀特黑德支付1万美元和其他费用 agreed to pay Mary Beth Whitehead a $10,000 fee 作为交换，玛丽·贝思·怀特黑德 plus all expenses in exchange for which Mary Beth Whitehead 同意用威廉的精子进行人工授精 agreed to be artificially inseminated with William Stern's sperm, 来生下孩子，然后再将孩子交给这对夫妇 to bear the child, and then to give the baby to the Sterns. 你可能知道，故事会怎么发展下去 Well, you probably know how the story unfolded. 玛丽·贝思生下了孩子，但她改变了主意 Mary Beth gave birth and changed her mind, 她决定留下这个孩子 she decided she wanted to keep the baby. 事情最终上了新泽西的法庭 The case wound up in court in New Jersey. 让我们把法律问题放在一边 So let's take, put aside any legal questions, 将焦点放在道德问题上来 and focus on this issue as a moral question. 有多少人认为，在宝贝M的事件中正确的做法是 How many believe that the right thing to do in the Baby M case, 坚持执行这份合同？ would have been to uphold the contract, to enforce the contract? 又有多少人认为，正确的做法是 And how many think the right thing to do 不去执行该合同？ would have been not to enforce that contract? 大多数人认为应该执行合同。我们现在来听听 The majority say enforce so let's now hear the reasons 不管是支持执行还是拒绝 that people had, either for enforcing or refusing 执行该合同的人的意见 to enforce this contract. 首先，我们听听多数人的看法 First I want to hear from someone in the majority. 你为什么支持合同？你为什么要执行它？ Why do you uphold the contract? Why do you enforce it? 谁能给出理由？请，站起来 Who can offer a reason? Yes. Stand up. 这是一个具有法律约束力的合同，各方在合同生效前 It's a binding contract, all the parties involved 都很清楚合同的条款 knew the terms of the contract before any action was taken, 这是一个自愿的协议。这位母亲清楚将要发生的事情 it's a voluntary agreement, the mother knew what she was getting into, 四个成年人，不分教育背景 all four intelligent adults, regardless of formal education, whatever. 所以，如果事先你就清楚你将要做的事情 So it makes sense that if you know that you're getting into beforehand 而且许下诺言，你就应该遵守这个承诺 and you make a promise, you should uphold that promise in the end. 好的。换句话说，一言既出，驷马难追 Okay, a deal is a deal in other words. - 没错- 你叫什么名字 Exactly. - And what's your name? Patrick Patrick. Patrick的理由也是你们大多数人 Is Patrick's reason the reason that most of you in the majority 赞成坚持合同的理由吗？好的，现在让我们听听 favored upholding the contract? Yes. Alright, let's hear now someone 那些不同意执行合同的人 who would not enforce the contract. 你会对Patrick说什么？为什么不赞成？请 What do you say to Patrick? Why not? Yes. 嗯，我同意，当各方都知晓所有信息时， Well, I mean, I agree, I think contracts should be upheld 合同应该坚持执行。但在这个案件里 when all the parties know all the information but in this case, 我不认为，在孩子未出生前，作为一个母亲 I don't think there's a way a mother, before the child exists, 能够确切知道，她对那位孩子会有什么的感受 could actually know how she's going to feel about that child 因此，我不认为，（签合同时）母亲就知道全部信息 so I don't think the mother actually had all the information. 她不认识那个将要出生的孩子 She didn't know the person that was going to be born 所以也不知道，她会多么爱这个孩子。这就是我的观点 and didn't know how much she would love that person so that's my argument. 所以你不支持执行。你叫什么名字？ So you would not, and what's your name? Evan Wilson Evan Wilson. Evan说他不会坚持合同，因为在生下孩子前 Evan says he would not uphold the contract because when it was entered into 代孕母亲无法提前知晓，她对孩子的感受 the surrogate mother couldn't be expected to know in advance 因此，她并不真正知晓 how she would feel so she didn't really have the relevant information 相关的信息 when she made that contract. 还有谁？还有谁不支持执行合同？ Who else? Who else would not uphold the contract? Yes. 我也同意在一般情况下，应该要坚持执行合同 I also think that a contract should generally be upheld 但我认为，拥有自己真正的母亲，是孩子不可剥夺的权利 but I think that the child has an inalienable right to its actual mother 我认为，如果那位母亲要她的孩子 and I think that if that mother wants it then that child 孩子也有权拥有自己的母亲 should have the right to that mother. 你是指，这个亲生母亲而不是养母？ You mean the biological mother not the adoptive mother? 是的 Right. 那么为什么？首先，告诉我你的名字 And why is that? First of all, tell me your name. Anna Anna. Anna，为什么是那样？ Anna. Why is that Anna? 因为我认为，通过自然（血缘）而建立的关系 Because I think that that bond is created by nature 胜过一切合同所创造的关系 is stronger than any bond that is created by a contract. 很好，谢谢还有谁？请 Good. Thank you. Who else? Yes. 我不同意，我不认为孩子对其亲生母亲 I disagree. I don't think that a child has an inalienable right 有不可剥夺的权利 to her biological mother. 我认为，领养和代孕都是合法的交易 I think that adoption and surrogacy are both legitimate tradeoffs 我也同意，这是一种自愿达成的协议 and I agree with the point made that it's a voluntary agreement, 这是个体自愿达成的协议 the individual who made it, it's a voluntary agreement 你不能说这里有强迫的成分 and you can't apply coercion to this argument. 你不能说，这是被强迫的，因此而反对它？ You can't apply the objection from coercion to this argument? 是的 Correct. - 你叫什么名字？- Kathleen What's your name? - Kathleen. Kathleen，你对Evan的说法怎么看 Kathleen, what do you say to Evan that though there may not have been –
Evan说，并不是因为强迫的缘故，“玷污”了合同 Evan claimed that the consent was tainted not by coercion 而是缺乏足够的信息。她不知道有关的信息 but by lack of adequate information. She couldn't have known 即她不知道，她会对这孩子会有何种感受 the relevant information namely how she would feel about the child. 对这点你怎么说？ What do you say to that? 我不认为，她的感受在这里起到作用 I don't think the emotional content of her feelings plays into this. 我认为，在法律案件中，在审判这种案件时 I think in a case of law, in the justice of this scenario, 她情感的变化是无关紧要的 her change of feelings are not relevant. 如果我决定放弃我的孩子，送给别人收养，随后我又决定 If I give up my child for adoption and then I decide later on 要回孩子，这样太糟了。这是一个交易 that I really want that child back, too bad, it's a tradeoff, 母亲已经做出的一个交易 it's a tradeoff that the mother has made. 所以，一言既出，驷马难追。你同意Patrick吗？ So a deal is a deal, you agree with Patrick? 我同意Patrick的观点，一言既出，驷马难追 I agree with Patrick, a deal's a deal. 一言既出，驷马难追 A deal is a deal. - 是的- 很好 Yes. - Good. Yes. 我想说的是，虽然我不太确定我是否 I would say that though I'm not really sure if I agree 同意孩子对其母亲有不可剥夺的权利 with the idea that the child has a right to their mother. 我认为，该母亲肯定有权利拥有她的孩子 I think the mother definitely has a right to her child 我也认为，有些方面是市场力量 and I also think that there's some areas where market forces 所无法渗透的 shouldn't necessarily penetrate. 我认为，整个代孕母亲的事情 I think that the whole surrogate mother area 在处理人的角度看来，似乎缺乏人性 smacks a little bit of dealing in human beings seems dehumanizing. 这好像是不正确的。这就是我的主要观点 It doesn't really seem right so that's my main reason. 请告诉我你的名字？ And what is – could you tell us your name.
我是Andrew I'm Andrew. Andrew，用钱买卖拥有孩子的权利，为什么就没有人性呢？ Andrew, what is dehumanizing about buying and selling the right to a child, for money, 哪些地方没有人性？ what is dehumanizing about it? 因为你在购买人们的生物权 Well because you're buying someone's biological right. 我是指，就像法律所说，你不能卖掉自己的孩子 I mean you can't – in the law as it stated, you can't sell your own child
假设你有一个孩子，我相信法律会 were you to have a child, I'd believe that the law 禁止你将孩子卖给别人 prohibits you selling it to another person or –
所以，你觉得这就像把孩子卖掉？ So this like baby selling? 是的，在某种程度上是这样 Right. To a certain extent. 尽管你与别人签了协议 Though there's a contract with another person, 你们达成了一致协议，这里不可否认地 you've made agreements and what not, there is an undeniable emotional bond 在母亲和孩子之间建立的情感纽带。如果因为签了合同 that takes place between the mother and the child and it's wrong 就简单地忽视这点是错误的 to simply ignore this because you've written out something contractually. 对，你想回应Andrew吗？呆在那 Right. You want to reply to Andrew? Stay there. 你指出，这里有一个不可否认的情感纽带 You point out there's an undeniable emotional bond, 我觉得，在这种情况下我们没必要争论 I feel like in this situation, we're not necessarily arguing 收养或代孕本身，我们只要 against adoption or surrogacy in itself, we're just sort of 指出情感之间的差异 pointing out the emotional differences. 但请等会，我的意思是，将事物分解为一块块是很容易的 But wait, I mean, it's easy to break everything down 你可以说：“哦，我们有合同” to numbers and say "Oh, we have contracts," 就像你买了或卖了一辆车。但在本案例中有情感因素 like you're buying or selling a car but there are underlying emotions, 我的意思是，你是在面对的是人，而不是用来买卖的物品 I mean, you're dealing with people, these are not objects to be bought and sold. 好吧，Andrew说，这是在贩卖小孩 Alright. What about Andrew's claim that this is like baby selling. 我认为，收养和代孕应该是允许的 I believe that adoption and surrogacy should be permitted, 这和我是否会参与无关 whether or not I actually will partake in it is not really relevant 但我认为政府应该，政府应该 but I think that the government should, the government should 给予它的公民，允许收养和代孕的权利 give its citizens the rights to allow for adoption and surrogacy. 但收养不是……根据…… But adoption is not – according to –
收养算是贩卖儿童吗？ Is adoption baby selling? 嗯，那你认为，你可以出价，要一个将被收养的孩子吗？ Well, do you think you should be able to bid for a baby that's up for adoption? 这就是Andrew的质疑 That's Andrew's challenge. 你在问，我是否认为，我可以开价收养孩子是吧？ Do I think I should be able to bid for a baby? 我不认为。这是市场经济。我觉得它可以被运用到... I'm not - sure! It's a market, I feel the extent to which it's been applied 我不大确定，政府是否应该允许它 and I'm not sure if the government should be able to permit it 我得仔细想想，但…… and I have to think about it more but –
好吧，很好。你同意吗，Andrew？ Alright. Fair enough. Are you satisfied, Andrew? 嗯，是，我想收养应该是允许的 Well, yeah, I mean, I think surrogacy should be permitted. 我认为人们可以这样做，但我不认可一旦签合同之后 I think that people can do it but I don't think that it should be 人们就必须被强制执行 forced upon people that once a contract is signed, 这就是绝对是一种终结。我认为这不能强制执行 it's absolutely the end all. I think that it's unenforceable. Andrew, 所以你觉得，人们应该可以自由签署这样的合同 So people should be free, Andrew, to enter into these contracts 但法院不应该强制执行 but it should not be enforceable in the court. 法院不能强制执行 Not in the court, no. 谁还有意见补充？请 Who would like to turn on one side or the other? Yes. 我想，我对此有一个很有趣的想法。因为我的哥哥 I think I have an interesting perspective on this because my brother 就是捐精子给精子银行的其中一员 was actually one of the people who donated to a sperm bank 他为此获得了很多钱 and he was paid a very large amount of money, 他有6英尺高，但不是金发，他有酒窝 he was six feet tall but not blond, he had dimples though. 他也有一个女儿，我现在是姑姑了。 So he actually has, I'm an aunt now, he has a daughter, 他把他的精子捐给了，俄克拉何马州的一对女同性恋夫妇 he donated his sperm to a lesbian couple in Oklahoma and he has been 他一直有和她们联系，他也看过他女儿的照片 contacted by them and he has seen pictures of his daughter but he still 但他不觉得，他和他女儿之间有感情纽带 does not feel an emotional bond to his daughter, 他只是好奇，女儿长得怎样 he just has a sense of curiosity about what she looks like 她在做什么，她现在过得怎样 and what she's doing and how she is. 他并未对他的这个孩子产生爱。所以从这件事来看 He doesn't feel love for his child so from this experience, 我认为，母亲和孩子之间的纽带 I think the bond between a mother and a child cannot be compared 与父亲和孩子之间的纽带，是不能拿来比较的 to the bond between the father and the child. 这真的很有趣。你叫什么名字？ That's really interesting. What's your name? Vivian Vivian. Vivian，所以我们这个代孕的案例，商业代孕的案例 Vivian. So we've got the case of surrogacy, commercial surrogacy, 它被比作贩卖儿童，我们也一直在探讨 and it's been compared to baby selling and we've been exploring 这样的类比是否恰当。正如你指出那样，它也可以和 whether that analogy is apt and it can also be compared, 精子买卖作类比。 但你说买卖精子、买卖儿童 as you point out, to sperm selling. But you're saying that sperm selling and baby selling 或者代孕是很不同的，因为…… or even surrogacy are very different because –
是的，这是不平等的交易 Yes, they're unequal services. 这是不平等的交易，因为……Vivian They're unequal services and that's because Vivian, 你说，联系、纽带 you say that the tie, the bond –
是的，还有母亲时间的投入 Yes, and also the time investment that's given by a mother, 9个月，这和一个男人去精子银行 nine months, cannot be compared to a man going into a sperm bank, 看着色情片，然后存放在杯子里，是不能相比的 looking at pornography, depositing into a cup. 我不认为那是相等的 I don't think those are equal. 很好，好吧 Good. Alright. 因为这就是发生在精子银行的事情 Because that's what happens in a sperm bank. 好的，这真的很有趣。我们已经…… Alright. So this is really interesting, we have – notice the arguments
到目前为止，我们已经提出的这些观点 that have come out so far. 对代孕的反对，以及至少有两种 The objections to surrogacy, the objections to enforcing 对执行合同的反对 that contract are of at least two kinds. 一种反对和“不知情的同意”有关 There was the objection about tainted consent, 这次不是因为强迫或隐含的强迫 this time not because of coercion or implicit coercion 而是因为不完美或者有瑕疵的信息 but because of imperfect or flawed information. 所以，“不知情的”或着说“有瑕疵的”同意，源于 So tainted or flawed consent can arise either because of coercion 它是被迫同意，也可能因为是缺乏相关的信息 or because of a lack of relevant information, 至少根据我们所听到的一种观点（是这样的） at least according to one argument that we've heard 而第二种反对执行代孕合同的意见认为 and then a second objection to enforcing the surrogacy contract 这多少有点缺乏人性 was that it was somehow dehumanizing. 当法院裁决这个案子时 Now when this case was decided by the courts, 他们对地又有何说法？ what did they say about these arguments? 下级法院裁决，合同应该被执行 The lower court ruled that the contract was enforceable, 双方都不具备谈判的有利地位 neither party had a superior bargaining position. 要价已经给出，价格已经谈好 A price for the service was struck and a bargain was reached. 不存在一方强迫另一方。双方要价的筹码都是均衡的 One side didn't force the other neither had disproportionate bargaining power. 案子后来闹到了新泽西州最高法院 Then it went to the New Jersey Supreme Court. 他们又做何判决？他们判决该合同无效 And what did they do? They said this contract is not enforceable. 他们把孩子的监护权给予了作为父亲的斯特恩 They did grant custody to Mr. Stern as the father 因为他们认为，这是最符合孩子的利益的 because they thought that would be in the best interest of the child 但他们也恢复了玛丽·贝思·怀特黑德作为母亲的权利 but they restored the rights of Mary Beth Whitehead 而探视权应该交给谁，由下级法院来决定 and left it to lower courts to decide exactly what the visitation rights should be. 他们援引了两个理由，沿着安德鲁提出的那个思路 They invoked two different kinds of reasons, along the lines that Andrew proposed. 首先，法庭认为，签合同时没有提供充分的信息 First, there was not sufficiently informed consent, the court argued. “这个不可撤销的合同，是这位亲生母亲 "Under the contract the natural mother is irrevocably committed 知道她和小孩之间纽带关系之前，所签下的 before she knows the strength of her bond with her child, 在婴儿出生前，她说做的任何决定 she never makes a truly voluntary informed decision for any decision 都不是真正的自愿、知情的，而其中最重要的一项--- prior to the baby's birth is, in the most important sense, 不知情的“，法院这样判决 uninformed," that was the court. 接着，法院也做了第二个陈述 Then the court also made a version of the second argument 反对这类商品化的行为，“这是像在贩卖小孩” against commodification in this kind of case "this is the sale of a child," 法院说，“至少可以说，这是在出售母亲对于小孩的权利” the court said, "or at the very least, the sale of a mother's right to her child. 不管是哪种原因驱使着参与者，利益的因素 Whatever idealism may motivate the participants, the profit motive 主导着、渗透着、并最终支配了这个交易” predominates, permeates, and ultimately governs the transaction." 因此，法庭说 And so regardless, the court said, 不管是认为，这是“有瑕疵的同意” ，抑或信息不充分 regardless of any argument about consent or flawed consent 在文明的社会中，有些东西 or full information, there are some things in a civilized society 是不可以买卖的。这就是法庭在判决 that money can't buy, that's what the court said 该合同无效时所说的 in voiding this contract. 那么，怎么看这两种反对市场在 Well, what about these two arguments against the extension of markets 生殖和生育领域中应用的观点？ to procreation and to reproduction? 它们的说服力如何？它确实是自愿签订的协议 How persuasive are they? There was – it's true, a voluntary agreement,
一份威廉·斯特恩和玛丽·贝思·怀特黑德共同签署的合同 a contract struck between William Stern and Mary Beth Whitehead. 但有两种情况下的同意，不属于真正的同意 But there are at least two ways that consent can be other than truly free. 其一，如果人们受到压力或压迫而签署协议 First, if people are pressured or coerced to give their agreement 其二，他们的同意时并非是真正的知情 and second, if their consent is not truly informed 在代孕的案件中，法庭说代孕母亲不知道 and in the case of surrogacy, the court said a mother can't know, 尽管这位母亲已经有自己孩子，她也不知道 even one who already has kids of her own, 把孩子生下来，然后为了钱而放弃他是什么滋味 what it would be like to bear a child and give it up for pay. 因此要评价这些质疑，第一个质疑 So in order to assess criticism, objection number one, 我们要弄清，这个自愿交易中 we have to figure out just how free does a voluntary exchange 双方讨价还价的地位和信息是否平等 have to be with respect to the bargaining power and equal information 问题1：我们如何评价第二个质疑 Question number one: how do we assess the second objection? 第二个质疑更加难以捉摸，更加困难 The second objection is more elusive, it's more difficult. Andrew承认这点，是吗？把生孩子变成一个市场交易 Andrew acknowledged this, right? What does it mean to say 是有点缺乏人性，是什么意思？ there is something dehumanizing to make childbearing a market transaction? 嗯，其中一位我们在这门课谈过的哲学家Elizabeth Anderson Well, one of the philosophers we read on this subject, Elizabeth Anderson, 试图用哲学解释来Andrew所说的问题 tries to brings some philosophical clarity to the unease that Andrew articulated. 她说，“让代孕母亲压制着 She said "by requiring the surrogate mother to repress whatever parental love 她对孩子的母爱，这份代孕合同 she feels for the child, surrogacy contracts 将母亲的劳动变为某种形式的异化劳动 convert women's labor into a form of alienated labor. 代孕的劳动被异化了。是因为她最终要把 The surrogate's labor is alienated because she must divert it 孕育的社会化过程，即母亲和孩子之间的情感纽带 from the end which the social practices of pregnancy rightly promote, 转交给别人” namely an emotional bond with her child." 所以Anderson 建议，某些东西不应该 So what Anderson is suggesting is that certain goods should not be treated 开放来使用或被用来营利 as open to use or to profit. 某些东西的价值高于其使用价值 Certain goods are properly valued in ways other than use. 还有哪些对待和衡量东西的方式 What are other ways of valuing and treating goods 是不应该开放来使用的？ that should not be open to use? Anderson 说有很多这样的东西：尊重、感激 Anderson says there are many: respect, appreciation, 爱，荣誉、敬畏、神圣 love, honor, awe, sanctity. 有许多看待事物的方法，而不仅仅是使用它，而且有些东西 There are many modes of valuation beyond use and certain goods 如果被简单地当作物品使用，就没有被正确地对待 are not properly valued if they're treated simply as objects of use. 怎样评价Anderson的观点？ How do we go about evaluating that argument of Anderson? 从某种意义上说，它把我们带回了对功利主义的辩论上 In a way, it takes us back to the debate we had with utilitarianism. 效用，是用来看待事物的唯一适当方法吗？ Is utility – is use the only proper way of treating goods,
包括生命、征兵、生育、养育？ including life, military service, procreation, childbearing? 如果不是，我们如何计算？ And if not, how do we figure out? 我们应该如何决定，用什么评价方式 How can we determine what modes of valuation 看待这些事物才合适？ are fitting or appropriate to those goods? 几年以前，有位医生丑闻缠身 Several years ago there was a scandal surrounding a doctor, 维吉尼亚州的一位，名为Cecil Jacobson的不育专科医师 an infertility specialist in Virginia named Cecil Jacobson. 他并没有捐赠者的目录，因为他的病人不知道 He didn't have a donor catalogue because unknown to his patients, 他用来授精的精子都来自一个捐赠者 all of the sperm he used to inseminated his patients came from one donor, 就是Jacobson医生自己 Dr. Jacobson himself. 至少一位出庭作证的妇女，对于她刚出生的女儿 At least one woman who testified in court was unnerved at how much 长得很像Jacobson医生，感到非常恼火 her newborn daughter looked just like him. 现在，我们可以谴责Jacobson医生 Now it's possible to condemn Dr. Jacobson for failing 没有提前通知该妇女，是否同意是有疑问的 to inform the women in advance that would be the argument about consent. 专栏作家Ellen Goodman，描写了这个诡异的阴谋 The columnist, Ellen Goodman, described the bizarre scenario as follows, “Dr. Jacobson医生”，她写道，“给他的不育业务 "Dr. Jacobson," she wrote "gave his infertility business 增添了自己的个人色彩，但现在是剩下的我们 the personal touch but now the rest of us," 开始了对精子捐赠的一连串重新思考” she wrote "are in for a round of second thoughts about sperm donation." Goodman总结说，身为父亲应该是你所承担的 Goodman concluded that fatherhood should be something you do, 而不是你所捐赠的。我认为，她要做的 not something you donate. And I think what she was doing 和哲学家Elizabeth Anderson 要做的 and what the philosopher Elizabeth Anderson is doing 以及Andrew 刚才提出的“缺乏人性” and what Andrew was suggesting with his argument about dehumanization 他们都在思考，是否有些东西是 is pondering whether there are certain goods 不应该用钱买的，不仅是因为这是 “不知情的同意” that money shouldn't buy, not just because of tainted consent 而也可能是因为，某些事物 but also perhaps because certain goods are properly valued 比单纯的使用，具有更高的意义 in a way higher than mere use. 至少，这会是未来几周我们 Those at least are the questions we're going to pursue 在一些哲学家的帮助下，要探讨的问题 with the help of some philosophers in the weeks to come.
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What's the Right Thing to Do - Lecture 4 Natural Rights and Giving Them Up
这块地是我的 This Land is My Land 今天，我们将讨论约翰-洛克 Today, we turn to John Locke. 表面看来，洛克是一位有力的自由主义支持者 On the face of it, Locke is a powerful ally of the libertarian. 首先，他和今天的自由主义者一样 First, he believes, as libertarians today maintain, 认为某些基本的个人权利是非常重要的 that there are certain fundamental individual rights that are so important 是任何政府，即使是代表人民的政府 that no government, even a representative government,
即使是由民主选举出来的政府，也不能剥夺这些权利 even a democratically elected government, can override them. 不仅如此，他还认为这些基本权利 Not only that, he believes that those fundamental rights include 包括了生命、自由和财产这些自然权利 a natural right to life, liberty, and property, 此外，他还认为财产权 and furthermore he argues that the right to property 不是由政府或法律所赋予的 is not just the creation of government or of law. 这些财产权是在政权出现前 The right to property is a natural right in the sense 就拥有的自然权利 that it is prepolitical. 它是每个人与生俱来的 It is a right that attaches to individuals as human beings, 甚至在政府出现前 even before government comes on the scene, 甚至在议会和立法机关 even before parliaments and legislatures 通过法律来定义和保护这些权利之前(这些权利就已经存在了) enact laws to define rights and to enforce them. 洛克说，想要了解自然权利是什么意思 Locke says in order to think about what it means to have a natural right, 我们得想象，在政府、法律出现前 we have to imagine the way things are 万事万物的样子 before government, before law, and that's what Locke means 就是洛克所说的自然状态 by the state of nature. 他说自然状态是一种自由状态 He says the state of nature is a state of liberty. 人是生而自由平等的 Human beings are free and equal beings. 没有自然的阶级层次划分 There is no natural hierarchy. 并没有人天生就是国王 It's not the case that some people are born to be kings 也没有人天生就是农奴 and others are born to be serfs. 在自然状态下，我们生而自由平等 We are free and equal in the state of nature and yet, 他指出，自由状态和许可状态 he makes the point that there is a difference between 是有区别的 a state of liberty and a state of license. 理由是即使在自然状态中 And the reason is that even in the state of nature, 也有某种法律 there is a kind of law. 但那不是立法机关制定的法律 It's not the kind of law that legislatures enact. 而是自然法则。这种自然法则限制了我们所能做的， It's a law of nature. And this law of nature constrains 哪怕我们是自由的 what we can do even though we are free, 就算在自然状态下也是如此 even though we are in the state of nature. 那这些约束是什么？ Well what are the constraints? 自然法则对我们的唯一限制就是 The only constraint given by the law of nature 就是我们所拥有的权利那些自然权利 is that the rights we have, the natural rights we have 我们既不能放弃这些权利 we can't give up nor can we take them 也不能从他人身上夺取 from somebody else. 在自然法则下，我们不是自由到 Under the law of nature, I'm not free to take somebody else's 可以侵犯他人的生命、自由或财产，我也不能随意 life or liberty or property, nor am I free to take 放弃自己的生命、自由或财产 my own life or liberty or property. 即便我是自由的，我也不能随意违反自然法则 Even though I am free, I'm not free to violate the law of nature. 我不能随意放弃自己的生命，或将自己卖为奴隶 I'm not free to take my own life or to sell my self into slavery 或让别人有绝对的权力来控制我 or to give to somebody else arbitrary absolute power over me. 对于这一限制，你可能认为只是一个 So where does this constraint, you may think it's a fairly 很小的限制，但它从何而来呢？ minimal constraint, but where does it come from? 洛克告诉我们，它从何而来 Well, Locke tells us where it comes from 他给出了两个答案，第一个答案是 and he gives two answers. Here is the first answer. "人类是由一位万能的、无限智慧的 "For men, being all the workmanship of one omnipotent, 制造者所创造的" ，即上帝 and infinitely wise maker," namely God, 人类是上帝的财产，是由上帝制造的 "they are His property, whose workmanship they are, 是出于上帝的喜好，而不是其他人 made to last during His, not one another's pleasure." 因此，我们之所以不能放弃 So one answer to the question is why can't I give up 我自己的生命、自由、或财产的权利 my natural rights to life, liberty, and property is well, 原因在于，严格来说，这些都不属于你自己 they're not, strictly speaking, yours. 毕竟，你是上帝的创造物，上帝更有权拥有我们 After all, you are the creature of God. God has a bigger property right in us, 他有优先的所有权 a prior property right. 现在，你可能会说， 这不是一个令人满意 Now, you might say that's an unsatisfying, 令人信服的答案，至少对那些 unconvincing answer, at least for those 不相信上帝的人来说 who don't believe in God. 洛克是怎么回到这些人的呢？下面是洛克的回应 What did Locke have to say to them? Well, here is where Locke appeals 他的理念是 to the idea of reason and this is the idea, 如果我们反思，自由的意义 that if we properly reflect on what it means to be free, 我们将得出这样的结论，自由不仅仅意味着 we will be led to the conclusion that freedom can't just be a matter 我们可以做任何我们想做的事 of doing whatever we want. 我想，当洛克说：自然状态下 I think this is what Locke means when he says, "The state of nature 存在着一条每个人都应遵守的自然法则 has a law of nature to govern it which obliges everyone: and reason, 这一法则教导人们 which is that law, teaches mankind who will but consult it 所有人都是平等独立的，没有人有权利 that all being equal and independent, no one ought to harm another 去侵犯其他人的生命、健康、自由或财产 in his life, health, liberty, or possessions." 这引出了洛克的一个令人费解的、解释权利的观点 This leads to a puzzling paradoxical feature of Locke's 某种意义上很熟悉，但又很陌生 account of rights. Familiar in one sense but strange in another. 我们的自然权利是不可分割的 It's the idea that our natural rights are unalienable. 不可分割是什么意思？意思是说我们不能 What does "unalienable" mean? It's not for us to alienate them 远离它，放弃它，交换它，变卖它 or to give them up, to give them away, to trade them away, to sell them. 就像飞机票，不可转让 Consider an airline ticket. Airline tickets are nontransferable. 或是“爱国者” 或“红袜”的比赛票 （爱国者：英格兰爱国者橄榄球队）（红袜：知名棒球队波士顿红袜队） Or tickets to the Patriots or to the Red Sox. 不可转让，不可分割 Nontransferable tickets are unalienable. 我在有限的意义下拥有它，我自己可以使用它 I own them in the limited sense that I can use them for myself, 但我不能把它卖出去。因此从某种意义上说，是不可剥夺的 but I can't trade them away. So in one sense, an unalienable right, 这种不可转让的权利使得我并不是完全拥有它 a nontransferable right makes something I own less fully mine. 但从另一方面说，它也是不可剥夺的 But in another sense of unalienable rights, 尤其是生命、自由和财产权 especially where we're thinking about life, liberty, and property, 由于它们的不可剥夺，使其涵义更加深刻 or a right to be unalienable makes it more deeply, 更彻底地属于我 more profoundly mine, 这就是洛克不可分割的意思 and that's Locke's sense of unalienable. 在美国独立宣言里也可以看到 We see it in the American Declaration of Independence. 托马斯杰斐逊提到了洛克的这一思想 Thomas Jefferson drew on this idea of Locke. 杰弗逊将洛克的说法改了一下： Unalienable rights to life, liberty, and as Jefferson amended Locke, 自由，生命，和对幸福的追求是我们不可剥夺的权利 to the pursuit of happiness. Unalienable rights. 这些权利是如此根属于我们，即使我们自己也不能把它卖掉 Rights that are so essentially mine that even I can't trade them away 或放弃 or give them up. 这些就是在政府存在之前 So these are the rights we have in the state of nature 在自然状态下，我们已经拥有的权利 before there is any government. 以生命和自由为例， 我不能夺走我的生命 In the case of life and liberty, I can't take my own life. 我不能把自己变卖为奴隶，也不能拿走别人的生命 I can't sell myself into slavery any more than I can take 也不能强迫他人 somebody else's life or take someone else 成为我们的奴隶 as a slave by force. 那财产权又怎么解释？ But how does that work in the case of property? 因为在洛克的理论中，私有财产权 Because it's essential to Locke's case that private property can arise 在政府产生前就存在了 even before there is any government. 在政府存在之前 How can there be a right to private property 怎么会有私有财产权呢？ even before there is any government? 洛克的答案在第27节 Locke's famous answer comes in Section 27. 每个人对他自己的人身，拥有所有权 "Every man has a property in his own person. 这一权利只属於他自己，而不得为其他人所拥有 This nobody has any right to but himself." 他的身体所从事的劳动，他的双手所进行的工作 "The labor of his body and the work of his hands, 我们可以说，都属于他 we may say, are properly his." 因此，作为一名自由主义者，他延伸了这一观点 So he moves, as the libertarians later would move, 从���们拥有自己，对自己的人身有所有权 from the idea that we own ourselves, that we have property in our persons 延伸到，我们拥有自己的劳动这个紧密相连的观点 to the closely connected idea that we own our own labor. 并且从这一点进而延伸出，通过我们的劳动加工之后 And from that to the further claim that whatever we mix our labor with 那些不属于任何人的自然物，就变成了我们的财产 that is un-owned becomes our property. 不管他从自然提供的资源中，移走了什么、剩下了什么 "Whatever he removes out of the state that nature has provided, 里面已经混有了他的劳动 and left it in, he has mixed his labor with, 加入他自己的东西，从而 and joined it to something that is his own, and thereby 使之变成他的财产 makes it his property." 为什么？因为毫无疑问地，劳动力是 Why? Because the labor is the unquestionable property 劳动者的财产，因此除劳动者以外 of the laborer and therefore, no one but the laborer 没人有权拥有融合了他的劳动力的劳动产物 can have a right to what is joined to or mixed with his labor. 然后他补充了一个重点 And then he adds this important provision, 至少，那里还留着足够的、同样好的资源给其他人 "at least where there is enough, and as good left in common for others." 我们不仅仅拥有土地上长出来的果实、 But we not only acquire our property in the fruits of the earth, 猎到的鹿、捕到的鱼来， in the deer that we hunt, in the fish that we catch 我们还耕土，圈地，种下马铃薯 but also if we till and plow and enclose the land and grow potatoes, 这样，我们拥有的就不仅是马铃薯，还拥有土地 we own not only the potatoes but the land, the earth. 一个人能耕耘、种植、改良和培育多少土地 "As much land as a man tills, plants, improves, cultivates 以及土地上的产出，他就拥有多少财产权 and can use the product of, so much is his property. 他通过自己的劳动，把它从共有财产中圈出来 He by his labor encloses it from the commons. 因此，权利是不可分割的，这一观点 So the idea that rights are unalienable seems to distance 把洛克从自由主义中区分开来 Locke from the libertarian. 自由主义认为，我们对自己 Libertarian wants to say we have an absolute property right 有绝对产权，因此我们可以做自己 in ourselves and therefore, we can do with ourselves 想做的任何事 whatever we want. 洛克对这个观点并不是很认可 Locke is not a sturdy ally for that view. 事实上，他说，如果你认真地考虑自然权利 In fact, he says if you take natural rights seriously, 你就会发现，我们的自然权利 you'll be led to the idea that there are certain constraints 我们能做什么也是有限制的 on what we can do with our natural rights, 这些是限制上帝赐给的，或经过逻辑地反思 constraints given either by God or by reason reflecting 自由的真正含义 on what it means really to be free, and really to be free 自由的真正含义，就是承认我们的权利是不可分割的 means recognizing that our rights are unalienable. 所以， 这就是洛克和自由主义者的区别 So here is the difference between Locke and the libertarians. 但当我们谈到私有财产时 But when it comes to Locke's account of private property, 洛克似乎又重新成为了自由主义者的坚定盟友 he begins to look again like a pretty good ally 因为他对私有财产的看法始于 because his argument for private property begins 我们是自己的所有者这一观点 with the idea that we are the proprietors of our own person 因此，我们的劳动力 and therefore, of our labor, and therefore, 我们的劳动成果， of the fruits of our labor, including not only 不仅包括，我们在自然状态下所收获的东西 the things we gather and hunt in the state of nature 而且包括那块我们培育、耕耘的土地 but also we acquire our property right in the land that we enclose 的所有权 and cultivate and improve. 有很多例子可以，让我们直觉地认为 There are some examples that can bring out the moral intuition 经过我们的劳动，就可以占有那些无主的东西 that our labor can take something that is unowned and make it ours, 尽管有时，会引起一些争议 though sometimes, there are disputes about this. 发达国家和发展中国家之间有个争议 There is a debate among rich countries and developing countries 与贸易有关的知识产权的争论 about trade-related intellectual property rights. 最近，对药物专利法的争论上升到了顶点 It came to a head recently over drug patent laws. 西方国家，尤其是美国，说 Western countries, and especially the United States say, 我们有庞大的制药业 "We have a big pharmaceutical industry 来开发新药 that develops new drugs. 我们希望世界上所有的国家都同意 We want all countries in the world to agree 尊重知识产权 to respect the patents." 在南非，出现了的艾滋病危机 Then, there came along the AIDS crisis in South Africa, 而美国的艾滋病药物十分昂贵 and the American AIDS drugs were hugely expensive, 远远超过大多数非洲人可支付的能力 far more than could be afforded by most Africans. 因此，南非政府说 So the South African government said, 我们将以更少的费用来购买 "We are going to begin to buy a generic version of the AIDS 抗艾滋病的非专利药 antiretroviral drug at a tiny fraction of the cost 因为我们可以找到一家印度制造公司 because we can find an Indian manufacturing company 他们破译了(美国药物)的配方 that figures out how the thing is made and produces it, 并以低价售出，因此如果我们可以 and for a tiny fraction of the cost, we can save lives 忽略专利因素的话，就能拯救更多的生命 if we don't respect that patent." 然后美国政府说 And then the American government said, 不行，这是一家美国公司投资 "No, here is a company that invested research 研发了这种药物 and created this drug. 你不能大规模生产这些药物而不支付 You can't just start mass producing these drugs without paying 相应的许可费 a licensing fee." 因此而引发了争议，这家制药公司 And so there was a dispute and the pharmaceutical company 起诉了南非政府，来阻止他们购买 sued the South African government to try to prevent their buying 那些廉价药，他们认为那些是盗版的 the cheap generic, as they saw it, pirated version of an AIDS drug. 但最终，这家制药公司作出让步，说 And eventually, the pharmaceutical industry gave in and said, “好吧，你们可以这样做” "All right, you can do that." 但是这类关于产权法规、知识产权、药物专利 But this dispute about what the rules of property should be, 在某种程度上 of intellectual property of drug patenting, in a way, 已经 is the last frontier of the state of nature because among nations 因为，国际间没有统一的专利权和财产权的法律 where there is no uniform law of patent rights and property rights, 在达成达到共识，或国际协议之前 it's up for grabs until, by some act of consent, 谁都可以争赢 some international agreement, people enter into some settled rules. 大家怎么看待，洛克对于私有财产的观点 What about Locke's account of private property 以及它如何在政府和法律出现之前就存在？ and how it can arise before government and before law 这是否正确？ comes on the scene? Is it successful? 多少人认为他的观点很有说服力？ How many think it's pretty persuasive? 请举手 Raise your hand. 有多少人并不觉得有说服力？ How many don't find it persuasive? 好吧，让我们听一听批评者的意见 All right, let's hear from some critics. 洛克关于私有产权的出现无需他人同意的观点 What is wrong with Locke's account of how private property can arise 有什么错？ without consent? Yes? 是的，我认为它正义化了以前欧洲殖民美洲的行为 Yes, I think it justifies European cultural norms as far as 回看当时，如果没有印地安人在美洲土地上的耕种 when you look at how Native Americans may not have cultivated American land, 当这些欧洲人来到美国 but by their arrival in the Americas, that contributed （当然，他们为开发美洲做了巨大的贡献） to the development of America, which wouldn't have otherwise 就不一定有现在的发展，或者不一定由这批（欧洲）人来开发 necessarily happened then or by that specific group. 所以，你认为这个理论是为（这些欧洲人）取得土地财产权而辩护 So you think that this is a defense, this defense of private property in land... 是的，因为它使原始取得的问题复杂化了 Yes, because it complicates original acquisition 如果你只承认，这批后来的外国人开发了这片土地 if you only cite the arrival of foreigners that cultivated the land. - 我明白了，你叫什么名字？- Rochelle I see. And what's your name? - Rochelle. - Rochelle？- 是的 Rochelle? - Yes. Rochelle说，这个财产获得的解释 Rochelle says this account of how property arises 迎合了当时欧洲人来北美 would fit what was going on in North America during the time 殖民的事件 of the European settlement. Rochelle，你认为它是 Do you think, Rochelle, that it's a way of defending 为掠夺土地做辩解的一种方式？ the appropriation of the land? 是的，我的意思是，这个观点同样在为 Indeed, because I mean, he is also justifying 光荣革命做了辩护 （光荣革命：英国一场和宗教有关的非暴力宫廷政变，建立了立宪君主制度以及两党制度） the glorious revolutions. 不难想象，他也在为殖民 I don't think it's inconceivable that he is also justifying 作辩护 colonization as well. 嗯，这是一个有趣的历史看法 Well, that's an interesting historical suggestion 我认为这还可以有很多讨论 and I think there is a lot to be said for it. 你如何看待他论据的有效性？ What do you think of the validity of his argument though? 因为你是正确的，这真的是在合理化 Because if you are right that this would justify the taking 夺走印第安人手中的土地 of land in North America from Native Americans 如果这是一个很好的论据， who didn't enclose it, if it's a good argument, 那么洛克使得这一行为正义化了 then Locke's given us a justification for that. 如果这是一个不好的论据，那么洛克给我们带来的只不过是一个 If it's a bad argument, then Locke's given us a mere 在道义上站不住脚的辩护 rationalization that isn't morally defensible. - 我倾向于后者- 你倾向于后者 I'm leaning to the second one- You're leaning toward the second one. 但这只是我自己的观点 But that's my opinion as well. 好，那么我们来听听是否有人 All right, well, then, let's hear if there is a defender 要为洛克对私有财产的观点辩护 of Locke's account of private property, 如果还能解决Rochelle的担忧那就更好了 and it would be interesting if they could address Rochelle's worry Rochelle担忧，这只是为美国殖民者 that this is just a way of defending the appropriation 夺取印地安人土地行为 of land by the American colonists from the Native Americans 的一种辩护罢了 who didn't enclose it. 谁来为洛克的这一观点辩护？ Is there someone who will defend Locke on that point? 你要为洛克辩护么？ Are you going to defend Locke? 你指责了洛克正义化了欧洲人 Like, you're accusing him of justifying the European 屠杀印第安人的行为 basically massacre of the Native Americans. 但是，谁说洛克是在辩护呢？ But who says he is defending it? 也许，欧洲殖民是不对的 Maybe the European colonization isn't right. 也许，这是洛克在《政府论(下篇)》谈到的 You know, maybe it's the state of war that he talked about 战争状态 in his Second Treatise, you know. （指Second Treatise of Government一书）
而美洲原住民和殖民者、移民者之间的战争 So the wars between the Native Americans and the colonists, 可能就是洛克所说的战争状态，我们只能 the settlers, that might have been a state of war that we can only 通过签订协议或者达成共识来摆脱战争 emerge from by an agreement or an act of consent 而这需要公正来解决…… and that's what would have been required fairly to resolve... 是的，双方都得同意并落实 Yes, and both sides would have had to agree to it and carry it out and everything. - 但在什么时候，你叫什么名字？- Dan But what about when, what's your name? - Dan. 但是，Dan，你对Rochelle对27节 But Dan, what about Rochelle says this argument in Section 27 以及32节关于挪用土地的意见怎么看 and then in 32 about appropriating land, 如果那个论据是正确的，这就会正义化 that argument, if it's valid, would justify the settlers' appropriating 移民者们占据土地的行为 that land and excluding others from it, 你认为这论据是一个很好的论据么？ you think that argument is a good argument? 恩，这不就是在暗示 Well, doesn't it kind of imply that the Native Americans 印第安人自己没有这样做过？ hadn't already done that? 恩，印第安人仅仅狩猎、采集 Well, the Native Americans, as hunter-gatherers, 他们并没有实际上占领土地 didn't actually enclose land. 因此，我认为Rochelle想说的是这个 So I think Rochelle is onto something there. - 我想……- 继续讲， Dan What I want to -- go ahead, Dan. 同时，他也说过，只要在某块的土地上 At the same time, he is saying that just by picking 捡捡橡树果实、摘摘苹果，或者杀一头水牛 an acorn or taking an apple or maybe killing a buffalo 这块土地就归你所有 on a certain amount of land, that makes it yours 因为这有你的劳动，而你的劳动为你圈取了这片土地 because it's your labor and your labor would enclose that land. 因此，根据洛克的定义， 也许印第安人没有绕着这块地 So by that definition, maybe they didn't have fences 竖起围栏，但不…… around little plots of land but didn't... 他们正在使用这片土地 They were using it. 是的，根据洛克的定义，你可以说 Yes. By Locke's definition, you can say... 因此，也许在洛克的定义里， 印第安人 So maybe by Locke's definition, the Native Americans 也可以宣称拥有这块土地的所有权 could have claimed a property right in the land itself. 是的，但正如她所说，他们只是没有站在洛克一边， Right, but they just didn't have Locke on their side, as she points out. 好，很好。再来一个洛克的辩护者。请 All right, good. Okay, that's good. One more defender of Locke. Go ahead. 我的意思是，为了捍卫洛克 Well, I mean, just to defend Locke, 他的确说过，有些时候 he does say that there are some times in which 你不能拿走别人的土地 you can't take another person's land. 例如，你不能拿走公有土地 For example, you can't acquire a land that is common property so people, 对美洲的印第安人来说，我感觉他们已经建立了 in terms of the American Indians, I feel like they already have 他们自己的文明，他们共同使用着这块土地 civilizations themselves and they were using land in common. 那么，这有点像是他说过的 So it's kind of like what an analogy to what he was talking about 英国人共有财产的一个类比。你不能拿走 with like the common English property. You can't take land that 大家共同享有的土地 everybody is sharing in common. 噢，很有趣，那很有趣 Oh, that's interesting. That's interesting. 还有，你不能拿走土地，除非你确保 And also, you can't take land unless you make sure 还有足够多的土地供其他人使用 that there is as much land as possible left for other people to take as well. 因此 如果打算拿走公有土地，你必须确保 So if you're taking common, so you have to make sure 还有足够多的剩余土地 that whenever you take land that there is enough left 供他人使用……- 对 for other people to use... - Right. 而且，剩下的土地和你拿走的土地是一样好的…… ...that's just as good as the land that you took, so... 没错，洛克说过，私有财产权必须得 That's true. Locke says there has to be this right 确保有足够多、足够好的留给其他人 to private property in the earth is subject to the provision 你叫什么名字？ that there be as much and as good left for others. What's your name? 对，我叫Feng Right. I'm Feng. Feng，在某种程度上你也同意Dan So Feng, in a way, agrees with Dan that maybe there is 在洛克的框架内 a claim within Locke's framework that could be developed on behalf 也许美洲原住民。下面的问题是 of the Native Americans. Here is the further question. 如果私有财产权是与生俱来的，而不是约定俗成的 If the right to private property is natural, not conventional, 如果它是在政府出现之前，我们就拥有的 if it's something that we acquire even before we agree to government, 那么，这种权利如何限制合法政府能做的事情呢？ how does that right constrain what a legitimate government can do? 最后，为了看看洛克究竟是自由主义 In order, finally, to see whether Locke is an ally 的支持者，还是潜在的批评者 or potentially a critic of the libertarian idea of the state, 我们得问，我们一旦进入了社会 we have to ask what becomes of our natural rights 什么将成为我们的自然权利？ once we enter into society. 我们知道，我们进入社会是经过大家的同意、协议 We know that the way we enter into society is by consent, by agreement 以脱离自然状态，并被大多数人 to leave the state of nature and to be governed by the majority 被法律体系、人类制定的法律所管辖 and by a system of laws, human laws. 但这些法律，只有在尊重我们的自然权利 But those human laws are only legitimate 尊重我们不可分割的生命、自由和财产权的条件下 if they respect our natural rights, if they respect our unalienable rights 才是合法的。没有哪个议会或立法机构 to life, liberty, and property. No parliament, no legislature, 不论它是多么民主，都不能侵犯 however democratic its credentials, can legitimately violate 我们的自然权利 our natural rights. 没有法律可以侵犯我们的生命权、自由权和财产权 This idea that no law can violate our right to life, liberty, and property 这似乎是支持有限政府的 would seem to support the idea of a government so limited 所以，很讨自由主义者的欢心 that it would gladden the heart of the libertarian after all. 但是自由主义者却不该高兴得这么早 But those hearts should not be so quickly gladdened because 即使对洛克来说，国家建立之后 even though for Locke, the law of nature persists 自然法则依然存在，尽管洛克坚持有限政府 once government arrives, even though Locke insists 政府要受限于创建它的人 on limited government, government limited by the end 即保护我们的财产不受侵犯 for which it was created, namely the preservation of property, 即便如此，这里还有一个关键点：怎么才算是我的财产 even so, there is an important sense in which what counts as my property, 怎样才算尊重我的生命和自由权？ what counts as respecting my life and liberty 而这是由政府来界定的 are for the government to define. 哪些属于财产权，怎么才算尊重生命权和自由权 That there be property, that there be respect 这些是限制政府的所在 for life and liberty is what limits government. 但是，怎样才算尊重我的生命和财产权 But what counts as respecting my life and respecting my property, 却是由政府来决定和定义的 that is for governments to decide and to define. 怎么会这样呢？ How can that be? 洛克不是在自打嘴巴么？还是说这里有一个 Is Locke contradicting himself or is there an important 重要的区别？ distinction here? 为了回答这个问题，这决定了洛克究竟是否与 In order to answer that question, which will decide Locke's fit 自由主义的观点一致，我们需要仔细研究 with the libertarian view, we need to look closely 洛克所指的合法政府是什么样的？ at what legitimate government looks like for Locke, 我们将在下一次探讨 and we turn to that next time. 收入就好像鞋子：太小了会挤脚，太大了会摔跤。---约翰洛克 "Our incomes are like our shoes: if too small, they gall and pinch us; but if too large, they cause us to stumble and to trip." ---John Locke 上一次 我们开始讨论洛克所说的自然状态 Last time, we began to discuss Locke's state of nature, 他的私有财产的观点，他的合法政府理论 his account of private property, his theory of legitimate government, 即政府是基于人们的同意而设立，以及有限政府 which is government based on consent and also limited government. 洛克相信一些基本权利限制了 Locke believes in certain fundamental rights that constrain 什么是政府可以做的 what government can do, and he believes that those rights 洛克相信，这些权利是自然权利，而不是靠法律 are natural rights, not rights that flow from law 或政府来赋予 or from government. 洛克的哲学实验就是看看 And so Locke's great philosophical experiment 他能否提供一种理由来解释， is to see if he can give an account of how there could be a right 在政府和立法会议员出现之前 to private property without consent before government and legislators 为什么就有财产权 arrive on the scene to define property. 这就是他的问题，也是他的主张 That's his question. That's his claim. 洛克认为，建立产权有一种方法 There is a way Locke argues to create property, 不仅是采摘、打猎所得属于我们 not just in the things we gather and hunt, 还包括土地本身，只要我们给其他人留下了 but in the land itself, provided there is enough 足够多、足够好的土地 and as good left for others. 今天，我想谈谈关于同意的问题 Today, I want to turn to the question of consent, 这是洛克的第二个想法 which is Locke's second big idea. 私人财产是其中一个，同意是另一个 Private property is one; consent is the other. 同意的作用是什么？ What is the work of consent? 这里已经有人提到过同意 People here have been invoking the idea of consent 自从一开始，从第一个星期开始 since we began since the first week. 你们还记得我们在（第1集）讨论 Do you remember when we were talking about 将桥上的胖子推下桥（来救活5个工人）时，有人说 pushing the fat man off the bridge, someone said, “但他没有同意去牺牲自己” "But he didn't agree to sacrifice himself. 如果他同意的话，情况就不同了“ It would be different if he consented." 或当我们讨论到是否（也是第1集） Or when we were talking about the cabin boy, 杀死并吃掉船上那个男孩时 killing and eating the cabin boy. 有些人说 “嗯，如果他们都同意抽签 Some people said, "Well, if they had consented 情况就会不一样 to a lottery, it would be different. （经过同意）那样就可以（杀掉那个男孩） Then it would be all right." 因此，同意这个词已经出现了很多次。而关于同意这个问题， So consent has come up a lot and here in John Locke, 洛克是其中一位大哲学家之一 we have one of the great philosophers of consent. 同意，是道德哲学和政治哲学里 Consent is an obvious familiar idea in moral 是一个很明显、很熟悉的概念 and political philosophy. 洛克说，合法政府是建立在同意的基础上的 Locke says that legitimate government is government founded 今天，有谁不同意他的观点？ on consent and who, nowadays, would disagree with him? 有时候，当政治哲学家的思想 Sometimes, when the ideas of political philosophers 跟“同意”这个概念一样熟悉的时候 are as familiar as Locke's ideas about consent, 我们就很难理解它，或至少觉得它很有趣 it's hard to make sense of them or at least to find them very interesting. 但，作为合法政府存在的基础——同意 But there are some puzzles, some strange features 洛克对这个概念的解释，有些让人疑惑 of Locke's account of consent 让人觉得奇怪 as the basis of legitimate government 而这就是我今天要讨论的 and that's what I'd like to take up today. 验证洛克的“同意论”是否合理 One way of testing the plausibility of Locke's idea 并同时探讨这些困惑的一个方法就是看看 of consent and also of probing some of its perplexities 基于同意而建立的合法政府 is to ask just what a legitimate government 能够做什么 founded on consent can do, what are its powers 它有什么权力 according to Locke. 为了回答这个问题 Well, in order to answer that question, 回想自然状态是什么样的 it helps to remember what the state of nature is like. 请记住，正是由于我们决定要离开自然状态 Remember, the state of nature is the condition that 才导致了“同意” 的出现 we decide to leave, and that's what gives rise to consent. 为什么不呆在自然状态呢？ 为什么要有政府呢？ Why not stay there? Why bother with government at all? 那么，洛克是怎么回答这个问题的？ Well, what is Locke's answer to that question? 他说，在自然状态下，有不方便的地方 He says there are some inconveniences in the state of nature 但那些不便是什么？ but what are those inconveniences? 主要的不便是每个人都可以执行 The main inconvenience is that everyone can enforce 自然法则 the law of nature. 人人都是实施者，或者引用洛克的话 Everyone is an enforcer, or what Locke calls 自然状态下的“执行者”，他确实是这么说 "the executor" of the state of nature, and he means executor literally. 如果有人违反了自然法则， If someone violates the law of nature, 他就是一个侵犯者，他是不理性的 he is an aggressor. He is beyond reason 那么你就可以惩罚他。 and you can punish him. 而且在自然的状态下，你无须 And you don't have to be too careful or fine about 对惩罚的程度小心翼翼 gradations of punishment in the state of nature. 你可以杀死他。你绝对可以杀死 You can kill him. You can certainly kill 跟踪你、企图谋杀你的人 someone who comes after you, who tries to murder you. 那是自我防卫。 That's self defense. 但是在自然状态下，人人都可以执行惩罚， But the enforcement power, the right to punish, 人人都拥有执行的权力，惩罚的权利。 everyone can do the punishing in the state of nature. 而且你不仅可以处死那些 And not only can you punish with death 跟踪你、企图谋杀你的人 people who come after you seeking to take your life, 你还可以惩罚一个试图偷你东西的小偷 you can also punish a thief who tries to steal your goods 因为那也被看作是违反了 because that also counts as aggression against 自然法则 the law of nature. 如果有人偷了第三者的东西， If someone has stolen from a third party, 你也可以去找他。为什么？ you can go after him. Why is this? 任何违反自然法则的都是侵略行为 Well, violations of the law of nature are an act of aggression. 这里没有警察，没有法官或者陪审团， There is no police force. There are no judges, no juries, 所以人人都是自己的法官。 so everyone is the judge in his or her own case. 然而洛克发现，当人们成为他们自己的法官时， And Locke observes that when people are the judges 他们就倾向于失去理智。 of their own cases, they tend to get carry away, 而这给自然状态造成了 and this gives rise to the inconvenience 不便 in the state of nature. 如果你这位法官对“案情”判断错误，这也就是侵害 People overshoot the mark. There is aggression. 要受惩罚。而在你意识到你的错误之前， There is punishment and before you know it, 人们在享受其不可剥夺的 everybody is insecure in the enjoyment of his or her 生命权、自由权、财产权时，安全就得不到保障 unalienable rights to life, liberty, and property. 这里，洛克使用了一些严厉、甚至是残酷的词来描述 Now, he describes in pretty harsh and even grim terms 你可以怎么处置一个违背自然法则的人 what you can do to people who violate the law of nature. “你可以杀死，一个要跟你开战的人 ... "One may destroy a man who makes war upon him ... 就像，你可以杀死一只攻击你的狼或狮子 for the same reason that he may kill a wolf or a lion. 这样的人没有别的原则，只有武力和暴力，” Such men have no other rule, but that of force and violence," 听听这段：“所以你可能会成为，别的野兽口中的食物 listen to this, "and so may be treated as beasts of prey, those 一旦落入他们手中，你就必死无疑 dangerous and noxious creatures, that will be sure to destroy to you 所以，你得先杀死他们。 if you fall into their power", so kill them first. 乍一看，自然状态好像很不错 So, what starts out as a seemingly benign state of nature 在这里每个人都是自由的，尽管这里有一条法则 where everyone is free and yet where there is a law 这条法则尊重人们的权利，而且这些权利 and the law respects people's rights, and those rights are so powerful 是如此重要，以至于它们是不可被剥夺 that they're unalienable. 乍看很美好的东西，一旦你看得近一些 What starts out looking very benign, once you look closer, 就会发现它很残忍，充满着暴力，而这就是人们想要离开的原因 is pretty fierce and filled with violence, and that's why people want to leave. 人们怎样离开？这就是“同意”的起源 How do they leave? Well, here is where consent comes in. 脱离自然状态的唯一途径 The only way to escape from the state of nature 就是同意：同意放弃“执行权” is to undertake an act of consent where you agree to give up 然后建立一个政府或社区 the enforcement power and to create a government 在这里，有立法机关制定法律 or a community where there will be a legislature to make law 并且大家都事先同意，每个进来的人 and where everyone agrees in advance, everyone who enters, 也都事先同意，服从多数人的决定 agrees in advance to abide by whatever the majority decides. 但是接下来的问题，也就是我们的问题 But then the question, and this is our question 我想听听你们的观点 and here is where I want to get your views, 这个问题就是：哪些权力？多数人可以决定什么？ then the question is what powers, what can the majority decide? 在这里，洛克看起来有些狡猾。因为你们还记得， Now, here, it gets tricky for Locke because you remember, 在整个关于“同意”和“多数人的统治”的说法之外， alongside the whole story about consent and majority rule, 还有那些自然权利，自然法则， there are these natural rights, the law of nature, 那些不可分割的权利，而且你们还记得， these unalienable rights, and you remember, 当人们聚在一起建立一个公众社会时，这些东西并没有消失 they don't disappear when people join together to create a civil society. 所以尽管多数人掌管了权力， So even once the majority is in charge, 多数人也不可以侵犯，我们的不可分割的权利， the majority can't violate your inalienable rights, 不可以违反我们基本的 can't violate your fundamental right to life, 生命权、自由权和财产权 liberty, and property. 所以谜团就在这里： So here is the puzzle. 多数人拥有多少权力？ How much power does the majority have? 由“同意”建立起来的政府，有什么限制性？ How limited is the government created by consent? 它的有限性在于，多数人有尊重 It's limited by the obligation on the part of the majority 并且维护公民基本自然权利的义务。 to respect and to enforce the fundamental natural rights of the citizens. 他们不会放弃这些权利。政府出现后 They don't give those up. We don't give those up 我们仍然没有放弃这些权利。 when we enter government. 这就是杰佛逊在《独立宣言》里 That's this powerful idea taken over from Locke 从洛克那儿拿来的点子。不可分割的权利。 by Jefferson in the Declaration. Unalienable rights. 那么，让我们谈谈两个案例。还记得迈克尔·乔丹，比尔·盖茨， So, let's go to our two cases. Remember Michael Jordan, Bill Gates, 自由主义反对税收来达到重新分配（第3集） the libertarian objection to taxation for redistribution? 那么，关于洛克的有限政府呢？ Well, what about Locke's limited government? 有人认为洛克确实为 Is there anyone who thinks that Locke does give grounds 反对税收提供了理由吗？ for opposing taxation for redistribution? 有谁？请讲。 Anybody? Go ahead. 如果多数人规定必须有税收， If the majority rules that there should be taxation, 有少数人仍不须交税 even if the minority should still not have to be taxed 因为那是在剥夺财产，而财产权是自然权利之一。 because that's taking away property, which is one of the rights of nature. 好，你叫什么名字？Ben。 All right so, and what's your name? - Ben. Ben，所以如果多数人在未经少数人 Ben. So if the majority taxes the minority 同意的情况下， without the consent of the minority 根据一定法律来收税，那等于是 to that particular tax law, it does amount to a taking 未经他们的同意而剥夺他们的财产， of their property without their consent 那么，洛克似乎应该对此表示反对。 and it would seem that Locke should object to that. 你需要一些原文来支持你的观点， You want some textual support for your view, 来支持你对洛克的解读吗，Ben？ for your reading of Locke, Ben? 当然。 Sure. 好的。我带了一些来，就是以免你提出这样的问题 All right. I brought some along just in case you raised it. 要是你有讲义的话，看第138段。 If you have your texts, look at 138, passage 138. “最高权力”，洛克指的是立法机关， "The supreme power," by which Locke means the legislature, “未经他的同意，不可以拿走任何人的 "cannot take from any man any part of his property 任何的财产，因为对财产的保护 without his own consent, for the preservation of property 不属于‘统治’的范围，而对任何一个 being the end of government and that for which men 进入社会的人来说，都有必要假设和要求 enter into society, it necessarily supposes 人们必须拥有财产。” and requires that people should have property." 这原本就是人们进入社会的全部原因： That was the whole reason for entering society in the first place, 为了保卫财产权。 to protect the right to property. 而当洛克说到财产权时， And when Locke speaks about the right to property, 他通常将它当成一个放诸四海皆准的词汇， he often uses that as a kind of global term for the whole category, 生命权，自由权，财产权。 the right to life, liberty, and property. 所以洛克的这段话，第138段的开头， So that part of Locke, that beginning of 138, 似乎是印证了Ben的解读。但第138段的其他部分呢， seems to support Ben's reading. But what about the part of 138, 如果你们继续读下去：“因此，在社会中 if you keep reading, "Men, therefore, in society 人们拥有财产，根据大家所建立的法律 having property, they have such a right to the goods, 人们拥有物品的所有权” which by the law of the community are theirs." 再看看这段： Look at this. “而且没人可以未经他们的同意夺走这些财产。” "And that no one can take from them without their consent." 然后在这段的结尾，他说： And then at the end of this passage, he says, “所以认为立法权可以随意妄为、 "So it's a mistake to think that the legislative power 可以任意地处置其成员的财产、 can do what it will and dispose of the estates of the subject arbitrarily 或夺走其中任何一部分的想法，都是错误的。” or take any part of them at pleasure." 这就让人捉摸不透了： Here's what's elusive. 一方面，他说政府不可以 On the one hand, he says the government 未经你的同意而夺走你的财产。 can't take your property without your consent. 他的意思很明确。但是他接着又说道， He is clear about that. But then he goes on to say, 而那是对财产的自然权利。 and that's the natural right to property. 但是接着你会发现，似乎被认为是“财产”的东西， But then, it seems that property, what counts as property 并不是自然的，而是被政府 is not natural but conventional 所约定俗成的 defined by the government. “那些根据团体法律属于他们的财物。” "The goods of which by the law of the community are theirs." 而如果你看一下第140段，情况将更加复杂 And the plot thickens if you look ahead to Section 140. 第140段，他说道：“没有大量的经费支持， In 140, he says, "Governments can't be supported 政府就无法运行。 without great charge. 政府是昂贵的，因而让所有 Government is expensive and it's fit that everyone 享受保护的人们 who enjoys his share of the protection 为其财产的交费是合理的。” should pay out of his estate." 接着这里有一句关键的话：“然而，这仍然 And then here is the crucial line. "But still, it must be 需要征得他们的同意，也就是，大多数人的同意， with his own consent, i.e. the consent of the majority, 这个同意通过他们自己 giving it either by themselves, 或他们的代表来表达。” 所以洛克究竟想说什么？ or through their representatives." So what is Locke actually saying? 在某种意义上，财产是自然的，但在另一意义上，它又是约定俗成的 Property is natural in one sense but conventional in another. 我们享有拥有财产权这一 It's natural in the sense that we have a fundamental 基本的、不可剥夺的权利的意义上，它是自然的 unalienable right that there be property, 存在着财产权 that the institution of property exist and be respected 政府应当尊重 by the government. 任意地夺取财物将被视作是违反了 So an arbitrary taking of property would be a violation 自然法则，它是违法的。 of the law of nature and would be illegitimate. 但是问题在于 But it's a further question, here is the conventional 财产的约定俗称这一方面，我们问题在于 aspect of property, it's a further question 什么算作是财产，它是怎样被定义的，以及 what counts as property, how it's defined and what counts 什么算是夺取财产，这些取决于政府 as taking property, and that's up to the government. 所以，这里存在着“同意”，我们回到了 So the consent, here, we're coming back 我们的问题，同意的作用是什么？ to our question, what is the work of consent? 税收的合法性就在于 What it takes for taxation to be legitimate 它是经过同意的，不是由比尔·盖茨他自己同意的， is that it be by consent, not the consent of Bill Gates himself （假设他就是那个要付税的） if he is the one who has to pay the tax, 而是由他和我们，这个社会所有的成员， but by the consent that he and we, 在一开始脱离自然状态 all of us within the society, gave when we emerged 并且建立政府时 from the state of nature and created the government 给出的同意。这是一个集体性的同意。 in the first place. It's the collective consent. 这样解读起来，似乎同意 And by that reading, it looks like consent is doing 成了事情的全部，而经过同意所建立的有限政府 a whole lot and the limited government consent creates 也不完全是有限的。 isn't all that limited. 有人想对此做个回应，或对此有什么疑问吗？ Does anyone want to respond to that or have a question about that? 请，站起来。 Go ahead. Stand up. 嗯，我只是在想，洛克会什么看下面这种情况 Well, I'm just wondering what Locke's view is on 假如，一开始政府就存在 once you have a government that's already in place, 那么，对于出生在其中的人们而言， whether it is possible for people who are born 是否还有可能离开，并且回归到自然状态吗？ into that government to then leave and return 我是说，我认为 to the state of nature? I mean, I don't think 洛克并没有提过了这种清况…… that Locke mentioned that at all in the... 你认为呢？ What do you think? 嗯，我认为，照惯例看来，要脱离政府 Well, I think, as the convention, it would be very difficult to leave 是很困难的，因为你不再是... the government because you are no longer, 因为没人可以只生活在自然状态下 because nobody else is just living in the state of nature. 而让其他人被立法机关统治着 Everybody else is now governed by this legislature. 你是在想问，这在今天意味着什么， What would it mean today, you're asking. 你叫什么？Nicola。 And what's your name? - Nicola. Nicola，为了脱离某个状态，假设你要脱离 Nicola, to leave the state. Supposed you wanted to leave 当今的文明社会。你想要撤回你的同意 civil society today. You want to withdraw your consent 并且回归到自然状态。 and return to the state of nature. 嗯，因为你其实并没有给出“同意”。 Well, because you didn't actually consent to it. 你只是出生在其中。加入其中的是你的祖先。 You were just born into it. It was your ancestors who joined. 对，你没有在某个社会契约上签字。我没有在上面签字。 Right. You didn't sign the social contract. I didn't sign it. 的确。 Exactly. 好，那么洛克对此说了什么，是吗？ All right, so what does Locke say there? Yes? 我认为，洛克并没有说你必须签署任何东西。 I don't think Locke says you have to sign anything. 我想他所说的是那种默认的同意。 I think that he says that it's kind of implied consent. 默认的？ Implied? 享受政府的服务，就表示你默认 Taking government's services, you are implying that 你同意了政府 you are consenting to the government 从你那儿获取东西。 taking things from you. 好，默认同意，只是回答了这个答案 All right, so implied consent. That's a partial answer 一部分。现在，你也许会认为 to this challenge. Now, you may not think 默认同意，并不能等同于真正的同意 that implied consent is as good as the real thing. 这是你摇头的原因吗，Nicola？ Is that what you're shaking your head about, Nicola? 大声说出来。站起来，大声说 Speak up. Stand up and speak up. 我不认为，仅仅使用着政府的 I don't think that necessarily just by utilizing the government's 各方面的资源，我们就必然地默认了 various resources that we are necessarily implying that 我们认可这个政府产生的方式 we agree with the way that this government was formed 或表示我就同意真正地加入社会契约。 or that we have consented to actually join into the social contract. 所以，你认为默认同意 So you don't think the idea of implied consent 不足以产生任何服从政府的 is strong enough to generate any obligation at all to obey 义务？ the government? 对，不必然产生。 Not necessarily, no. Nicola，如果你知道你不会被逮捕 Nicola, if you didn't think you'd get caught, 你还会纳税吗？ would you pay your taxes? 我不会。在我个人看来，我更希望有一个系统 I don't think so. I would rather have a system, personally, 那样我可以只付钱给那些 that I could give money to exactly those sections 我支持的政府部门 of the government that I support 而不是所有的部门 and not just blanket support of it. 你更喜欢生活在自然状态 You'd rather be in the state of nature, 至少在4月15号这天（美国税务申报截止日期） at least on April 15th. 但是我想知道的是，你是否认为 But what I'm trying to get at is do you consider that 因为事实上你没有作出任何形式的同意 you are under no obligation, since you haven't actually entered 所以你没有任何的义务，但为了保险起见 into any act of consent, but for prudential reasons, 你还是依法行事？ you do what you're supposed to do according to the law? 没错 Exactly. 如果你这么想，就违背了洛克的另一个论点 If you look at it that way, then you're violating another one 那就是，你不能从其他人那里拿走任何东西 of Locke's treatises, which is that you can't take 例如，你不能只享受政府的服务 anything from anyone else. Like, you can't take the government's 而不付出任何回报 services and then not give them anything in return. 如果你想回到自然状态。那没关系 If you want to go live in the state of nature, that's fine, 但你能从政府那里拿走任何东西 but you can't take anything from the government 因为根据政府的条款，也是唯一的条款 because by the government's terms, which are the only terms 在你同意的情况下 under which you can enter the agreement, 要求你必须纳税才能获得那些东西 say that you have to pay taxes to take those things. 所以，你是说Nicola可以回到自然状态，如果她愿意 So you are saying that Nicola can go back into the state of nature 但她就不能在麻省街道上开车了 if she wants to but she can't drive on Mass. Ave.? 没错 Exactly. 我想讨论，街道使用权以外的问题 I want to raise the stakes beyond using Mass. Ave. 征税以外的问题 and even beyond taxation. 怎么看生命权？怎么看征兵的问题 What about life? What about military conscription? 好，你怎么看？站起来 Yes, what do you say? Stand up. 首先，我们要弄清楚，把人送上战场 First of all, we have to remember that sending people to war 并不意味着他们一定会死 is not necessarily implying that they'll die. 我是说，去战场显然也不会提高生存几率 I mean, obviously, you're not raising their chances here 但也不等于是死刑 but it's not a death penalty. 因此，如果你要讨论 So if you're going to discuss whether or not 征兵是否等同于压制了人的生命权 military conscription is equivalent to suppressing 你不该这么想。 people's right to life, you shouldn't approach it that way. 其次，真正的问题在于，洛克 Secondly, the real problem here is Locke has this view 关于同意和自然权利���观点。不允许人们放弃 about consent and natural rights. But you're not allowed to give up 自己的自然权利，即便是自愿的。所以，真正的问题是 your natural rights either. So the real question is 他如何自圆其说， how does he himself figure it out between 当人们谈到征税或者征兵问题时， "I agree to give up my life, give up my property" 他怎么解释 “我同意放弃我的生命，放弃我的财产” when he talks about taxes or military conscription for the fact. 我想，洛克是反对自杀的 But I guess Locke would be against suicide, 虽然那是经过我自己的意愿，我同意取下我的性命。 and that's still my own consent. I agree by taking my life. 好，不错，好的，你叫什么？ -Eric All right, good. All right, what's your name? - Eric. Eric说出了，在我们读洛克的时候 So Eric brings us back to the puzzle we've been wrestling with 一直困惑我们的难题， since we started reading Locke. 一方面，我们有这些不可分割的权利 On the one hand, we have these unalienable rights 生命权、自由权和财产权，那意味着即使我们自己 to life, liberty, and property, which means that even we 也没有放弃它们的权利 don't have the power to give them up, 而正是这些权利限制了合法政府 and that's what creates the limits on legitimate government. 这不是说，我们同意这些来限制政府 It's not what we consent to that limits government. 而是连我们自己也不能放弃 It's what we lack the power to give away 这些用来限制政府的权利 when we consent that limits government. 这就洛克的核心观点 That's the point at the heart of Locke's whole account 关于合法政府（的核心观点） of legitimate government. 但现在，你说，“好，既然我们都不能放弃自己的生命” But now, you say, "well, if we can't give up our own life, 既然我们都不能自杀，既然我们都不能放弃自己的财产权 if we can't commit suicide, if we can't give up our right 我们怎么能够同意 to property, how can we then agree 接受多数派的限制，迫使我们 to be bound by a majority that will force us to sacrifice 牺牲生命或者放弃财产呢？（即纳税和服兵役） our lives or give up our property"? 洛克能否自圆其说，或者说他基本上 Does Locke have a way out of this or is he basically 认可一个全能的政府 sanctioning an all-powerful government, 可以不顾，他所说的不可分割的权利呢？ despite everything he says about unalienable rights? 他能自圆其说吗？ Does he have a way out of it? Who would speak here 谁来为洛克辩护？ 或者为这个困境找出出路？ in defense of Locke or make sense, find a way out of this predicament? -我 -好，请说 Yes. - All right, go ahead. 我认为那是有区别的 I feel like there is a general distinction we made between 个人拥有的生命权 the right to life that individuals possess 与政府不能剥夺 and the fact that the government cannot take away 某个特定个体的生命权，两者是有区别的 a single individual's right to life. 我认为，如果你把征兵看成是政府在挑选 I think if you look at conscription as the government picking out 特定的个人去参战的话。那这就侵犯了 certain individuals to go fight in war, then that would be a violation 他们天赋的生命权。另一方面 of their natural right to life. On the other hand, 如果征兵，比方说是用抽签的方式 if you have conscription, let's say a lottery for example, 这时候，我觉得那是人民大众在选出 then in that case I would view that as the population picking 他们的代表去参战，以捍卫他们的权利 their representatives to defend them in the case of war, 整个思路是不可能全部人 the idea being that since the whole population 都一起冲上去，去捍卫各自的财产权利 cannot go out there to defend its own right to property, 它通过一个真正随机的程序，选择自己的代表 it picks its own representatives through a process that's essentially random 然后，这些随机选出的代表 and then these sort of elected representatives 站出来，去为人们的权利而战 go out and fight for the rights of the people. 这种方式很像，就像是 It works very similar, it works just like 民选政府那样，在我看来 an elected government, in my opinion. 好的，所以一个民选政府可以征用它的公民 All right, so an elected government can conscript citizens 站出来去捍卫他们的生活 to go out and defend the way of life, 从而能继续享有他们的权利？ the community that makes the enjoyment of rights possible? 我认为是的。因为对我而言，它非常类似于 I think it can because to me, it seems that it's very similar 选举立法代表的过程 to the process of electing representatives for legislature. 虽然，这里就像是政府 Although here, it's as if the government 在通过征兵选出一些公民送死 is electing by conscription certain citizens to go die 出于群体的利益 for the sake of the whole. Is that consistent with respect 这与尊重自由权利，相符吗？ for a natural right to liberty? 唔，我想说的是，这是有区别的 Well, what I would say there is there is a distinction 挑选特定个体和 between picking out individuals and having a random 随机挑选个体。就像 choice of individuals. Like ... 挑选……让我想想…… Between picking out... let me make sure, 挑选个体，让我…… -你叫什么名字？ between picking out individuals, let me... what's your name? Gokul. Gokul. Gokul.说，那是有区别的，挑选特定个体 Gokul says there's a difference between picking out individuals 让他们放弃生命和随机选取之间，是有区别的 to lay down their lives and having a general law. 我认为这就是洛克将会给出的答案，实际上，Gokul I think this is the answer Locke would give, actually, Gokul. 洛克是反对专制政府的 Locke is against arbitrary government. 他反对专制，反对指定由比尔·盖茨 He is against the arbitrary taking, the singling out of Bill Gates 去资助伊拉克战争 to finance the war in Iraq. He is against singling out 他反对指定某个公民或者某个群体 a particular citizen or group of people 去战斗。但是，如果有一个通用法 to go off and fight. But if there is a general law 可以让政府的选择 such that the government's choice, 让多数派的行为变得不是专制 the majority's action is non-arbitrary, 那就不算是对个人基本权利的侵犯 it doesn't really amount to a violation of people's basic rights. 专制掠夺才算是侵犯 What does count as a violation is an arbitrary taking 因为专制掠夺，本质上是说，不仅侵犯了比尔·盖茨 because that would essentially say, not only to Bill Gates, 还侵犯了每一个人。因为不存在法治 but to everyone, there is no rule of law. 没有产权制度。因为国王可以为所欲为 There is no institution of property. Because at the whim of the king, 或者说，国会（可以为所欲为） or for that matter, of the parliament, 可以指定你，或者你，放弃自己的财产 we can name you or you to give up your property 或者放弃你的生命。但是只要有一个 or to give up your life. But so long as there is 非专制的规定。那么这种行为就是允许的 a non-arbitrary rule of law, then it's permissible. 现在，你也许会说，这并不算是真正的有限政府 Now, you may say this doesn't amount to a very limited government, 而自由主义者也会抱怨 and the libertarian may complain that Locke is not 洛克不是一个忠实的好盟友。 such a terrific ally after all. 自由主义者对洛克的失望有两点： The libertarian has two grounds for disappointment in Locke. 第一，权利是不可分割的，因此 First, that the rights are unalienable and therefore, 我根本没有真正地拥有自己 I don't really own myself after all. 我不能用违反我的权利的方式来 I can't dispose of my life or my liberty or my property 处置我的生命、我的自由、我的财产。这是失望之一 in a way that violates my rights. That's disappointment number one. 失望之二，一旦经过同意而建立了合法政府 Disappointment number two, once there is a legitimate government 对洛克来说，其唯一的限制 based on consent, the only limits for Locke 就是限制对人的生命、自由和财产的任意掠夺。 are limits on arbitrary takings of life or of liberty or of property. 但如果多数派决定，如果多数派颁布 But if the majority decides, if the majority promulgates 一个普遍适用的法律，并且是经过一个恰当的 a generally applicable law and if it votes duly according 公平程序，那样就不是侵犯 to fair procedures, then there is no violation, 不管是征税，还是征兵。 whether it's a system of taxation or a system of conscription. 所以，很显然，洛克担心的是 So it's clear that Locke is worried 国王的绝对专权。 about the absolute arbitrary power of kings, 但同时，这里也确实存在 but it's also true, and here is the 洛克，这个伟大的“同意论”者，的局限 darker side of Locke, that this great theorist of consent 随之而来的是私有制理论 came up with a theory of private property 它不需要同意 that didn't require consent that may, 这可以回到上次Rochelle的观点 and this goes back to the point Rochelle made last time, 可能和洛克的第二关注点有关 may have had something to do with Locke's second concern, 那就是美国 which was America. 你们应该记得，当他谈到 You remember, when he talks about 自然状态，他不是在谈论 the state of nature, he is not talking about 一个假想的地方。他说，“起初 an imaginary place. "In the beginning," he says, “整个范畴是美国。” 在美国发生了什么？ "All the world was America." And what was going on in America? 殖民者在圈地，并且和 The settlers were enclosing land and engaged in wars 印第安人发生了战争。 with the Native Americans. 洛克，身为一个殖民地的长官 Locke, who was an administrator of one of the colonies, 可能乐于为私有制开脱 may have been as interested in providing a justification 即通过未经同意的圈地 for private property through enclosure without consent 通过圈地和耕种（而取得私有财产）。当时他正在设想一个 through enclosure and cultivation, as he was with developing a theory 基于同意的政府理论，从而可以限制国王 of government based on consent that would rein in kings 和专制统治者 and arbitrary rulers. 我们剩下的问题，最根本的问题就是 The question we're left with, the fundamental question 我们仍然没有回答，到底什么成为了我们的同意？ we still haven't answered is what then becomes of consent? 它能起什么作用？ 它的道德力量是什么？ What work can it do? What is its moral force? 同意的限制性是什么？ 同意不仅关乎到 What are the limits of consent? Consent matters not only 政府，也关系到市场 for governments, but also for markets. 下一次开始，我们将会分析 And beginning next time, we're going to take up questions 在商品买卖时，同意的限制问题。 of the limits of consent in the buying and selling of goods.
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What's the Right Thing to Do - Lecture 3 Free to Choose
When we finished last time, 我们讨论到，约翰密尔 we were looking at John Stuart Mill's 尝试对批判边沁的功利主义的人，作出回应。 attempt to reply to the critics of Bentham's Utilitarianism. 在他的《功利主义》一书中，密尔试图告诉那些批评者 In his book Utilitarianism Mill tries to show that critics 在功利主义的框架下，我们可以 to the contrary it is possible within the utilitarian framework 区分出高级和低级的快乐 to distinguish between higher and lower pleasures.
对价值作出的定性区分是可能的 It is possible to make qualitative distinctions of worth and we tested 我们用Simpsons和莎士比亚的例子来检验了这一点。 that idea with the Simpsons and the Shakespeare excerpts. 而我们检验的结果，似乎质疑了密尔这种区分 And the results of our experiment seem to call into question 因为你们之中许多人都更喜欢 Mill's distinction because a great many of you reported that you prefer 看Simpsons动画，尽管你认为莎士比亚 the Simpsons but that you still consider Shakespeare to be 是更高级、更有价值的乐趣。 the higher or the worthier pleasure. 这就是我们给密尔所提出的困境。 That's the dilemma with which our experiment confronts Mill. 在《功利主义》的第5章，密尔试图解释 What about Mill's attempt to account for the especially weighty character 个人权利和正义的一些特别重要的特征 of individual rights and justice in chapter five of Utilitarianism. 他想说，个人权利是值得特别考虑的。 He wants to say that individual rights are worthy of special respect. 事实上，他甚至说，正义是 In fact, he goes so far as to say that justice is 最神圣的部分，也是最不可比拟的 the most sacred part and the most incomparably binding part 道德约束 of morality. 但用同样逻辑就可以攻击密尔的这一辩护 But the same challenge could be put to this part of Mill's defense. 为什么正义是主要组成部分，是最具道德约束力的？ Why is justice the chief part and the most binding part of our morality? 好吧，他说，因为从长远来看， Well, he says because in the long run, 如果我们遵循正义，如果我们尊重权利， if we do justice and if we respect rights, 从长远来说，整个社会的生活会有所改善 society as a whole will be better off in the long run. 那么，又会怎么样呢？ Well, what about that? 但如果在某种情况下，我们破例地 What if we have a case where making an exception and 侵犯个人权利，却从长远来看 violating individual rights actually will make people better off 让人们过得更好？ in the long run? 那么，这是否正确呢？ Is it all right then to use people? 这可以进一步的反对 And there is a further objection that could be raised 密尔关于正义和权利的论述。 against Mill's case for justice and rights. 假设，从长远来算 Suppose the utilitarian calculus in the long run 功利主义计算出，如果尊重个人的权利 works out as he says it will such that respecting people's rights 从长远来看，能使大家过得更好， is a way of making everybody better off in the long run. 功利主义的这个解释是真正的原因吗？ Is that the right reason? 这是尊重个人的唯一理由吗？ Is that the only reason to respect people? 如果一个健康的家伙去检查身体（第一节的案例） If the doctor goes in and yanks the organs from 医生把这个人的器官取出来 the healthy patient who came in for a checkup 去救活其他5条生命（站在功利主义的角度是合理的） to save five lives, 但长远来看，会有不利影响 there would be adverse effects in the long run. 人们最终会知道这件事 Eventually, people would learn about this and 以后也不去做身体检查了（怕自己的器官被取出来） would stop going in for checkups. 所以，功利主义的理由是真正的原因吗？ Is it the right reason? 这是你作为一个医生，不会从健康人身上 Is the only reason that you as a doctor won't yank the organs 取走器官的唯一理由吗 out of the healthy patient that you think, well, 如果我采用功利主义的逻辑，长远来看反而会失去更多的生命？ if I use him in this way, in the long run more lives would be lost? 还是另有其因 Or is there another reason having to do with intrinsic respect 要尊重个人？ for the person as an individual? 如果这个原因十分重要，但我们暂时还不是那么清楚 And if that reason matters and it's not so clear 即使密尔的功利主义考虑到这点 that even Mill's utilitarianism can take account of it, 充分研究这两个忧虑或反对的意见 fully to examine these two worries or objections, 我们需要更深一层来考虑。 to Mill's defense we need to push further. 我们要问，对于那些更高级、更有价值的乐趣 And we need to ask in the case of higher or worthier pleasures 是否有一些理论能够提供一个独立的 are there theories of the good life that can provide 关于快乐的道德判断标准？ independent moral standards for the worth of pleasure? 如果是能，是什么标准？这是个问题。 If so, what do they look like? That's one question. 关于正义和人权，如果我们怀疑密尔是否是 In the case of justice and rights, if we suspect that Mill 隐性地倾向于推崇高贵 is implicitly leaning on notions of human dignity 或者是尊重那些，不是严格意义上的功利主义者 or respect for person that are not strictly speaking utilitarian, 我们需要看看，是否有一些更有力的理论 we need to look to see whether there are some stronger theories 可以解释，密尔所直觉地认为的 of rights that can explain the intuition which even Mill shares, 尊重个人的原因 the intuition that the reason for respecting individuals 以及即使从长期来算效用更大，也不能过度地利用个人 and not using them goes beyond even utility in the long run. 今天，我们要谈谈关于正义的一个有力理论 Today, we turn to one of those strong theories of rights. 这个理论认为，每个人都很重要，不是因为 Strong theories of right say individuals matter not just as 个人是谋求社会更大利益的工具 instruments to be used for a larger social purpose 或者是为了达到效用的最大化 or for the sake of maximizing utility, 个人是值得尊重的、有各自生活的独立个体 individuals are separate beings with separate lives worthy of respect. 因此，根据这一理论 And so it's a mistake, according to strong theories 只是把大家的偏好、价值观叠加起来 or rights, it's a mistake to think about justice 来决定是否正义，是错误的 or law by just adding up preferences and values. 我们今天要讨论的这个理论就是 The strong rights theory we turn to today is 自由主义。 libertarianism. 自由主义认真地考虑个人权利。 Libertarianism takes individual rights seriously. 之所以称为自由主义，因为它说： It's called libertarianism because it says 个人的基本权利是自由 the fundamental individual right is the right to liberty 正因为我们是独立的个体。 precisely because we are separate individual beings. 我们不会用来充当 We're not available to any use that the society 社会意愿、设想的工具，这恰恰是因为我们是 might desire or devise precisely because we are 独立的个体。 individual separate human beings. 我们有基本的自由权利， We have a fundamental right to liberty, 这意味着我们有权自由选择， and that means a right to choose freely, 过我们想要的生活， to live our lives as we please 只要我们同时尊重到其他人的权利 provided we respect other people's rights to do the same. 这是自由主义的基本想法。 That's the fundamental idea. Robert Nozick，自由主义的哲学家之一 Robert Nozick, one of the libertarian philosophers 认为 we read for this course, puts it this way: 个人拥有权利。 Individuals have rights. 个人权利是如此强烈和深远 So strong and far reaching are these rights that they 它们决定什么是国家要做的，如果有的话 raise the question of what, if anything, the state may do. 那么，自由主义是怎么论述政府扮演的角色 So what does libertarianism say about the role of government 或国家的角色？ or of the state? 大多数现代国家会做三件事 Well, there are three things that most modern states do 自由主义却认为是 that on the libertarian theory of rights are 非法的或不公正的。 illegitimate or unjust. 其中之一就是家长式立法。 One of them is paternalist legislation. 也就是通过立法来保护民众 That's passing laws that protect people from themselves, 例如，安全带、摩托车头盔的立法。 seatbelt laws, for example, or motorcycle helmet laws. 自由主义说，如果人们系好安全带 The libertarian says it may be a good thing 这可能是件好事 if people wear seatbelts 但这应该由他们自己来决定 but that should be up to them and the state, 国家、政府无权强迫我们 the government, has no business coercing them, 立法来要求我们系上安全带 us, to wear seatbelts by law. 这是一种胁迫。所以，第一条：废除家长式立法 It's coercion, so no paternalist legislation, number one. 第二：废除道德立法。 Number two, no morals legislation. 许多法律试图鼓励公民培养某些道德 Many laws try to promote the virtue of citizens 或体现整体社会的道德价值观 or try to give expression to the moral values of the society as a whole. 自由主义说，这也是侵犯自由权的。 Libertarian say that's also a violation of the right to liberty. 一个典型的例子 Take the example of, well, a classic example 以促进道德的名义来立法 of legislation authored in the name of promoting morality 传统上法律禁止 traditionally have been laws that prevent sexual intimacy 同性恋的关系。 between gays and lesbians. 自由主义说，同性恋并没有伤害到任何人 The libertarian says nobody else is harmed, 没有侵犯到任何人的权利 nobody else's rights are violated, 因此，国家无权 so the state should get out of the business entirely of 促进美德或通过道德立法。 trying to promote virtue or to enact morals legislation. 而自由主义要废除的第三种法律、政策 And the third kind of law or policy that is ruled out 是税收等政策 on the libertarian philosophy is any taxation or other policy 以达到收入的再分配的目的 that serves the purpose of redistributing income or wealth 从富人流到穷人。 from the rich to the poor. 如果你仔细想想，再分配是 Redistribution is a – if you think about it,
是一种胁迫，自由主义说 says the libertarian is a kind of coercion. 这就像是国家或多数派在偷窃 What it amounts to is theft by the state or by the majority, 从那些干得好、钱赚得多一点的人身上 if we're talking about a democracy, from people who happen to 偷窃 do very well and earn a lot of money. Nozick和其他自由主义者允许 Now, Nozick and other libertarians allow that there can be 国家收取少额的税收，来支持那些公众都需要的东西 a minimal state that taxes people for the sake of what everybody needs, 例如，国防，警察部队， the national defense, police force, 司法系统 judicial system to enforce contracts and property rights, 但仅此而已。 but that's it. 现在，我希望听听你们怎么看 Now, I want to get your reactions to this third feature 自由主义的第三个观点 of the libertarian view. 我想看看，谁同意这个想法，谁不同意，为什么不同意 I want to see who among you agree with that idea and who disagree and why. 但是，为了让大家具体地看看利害攸关点 But just to make it concrete and to see what's at stake, 我们可以考虑一下，美国的财富分配 consider the distribution of wealth in the United States. 在所有先进的民主国家之中，美国是目前 United States is among the most inegalitarian society as far as 贫富最不平等的社会 the distribution of wealth of all the advanced democracies. 这是正义的还是不正义的呢？ Now, is this just or unjust? 那么，自由主义又是怎样说的？ Well, what does the libertarian say? 自由主义说，光从我给你的事实中你很难知道 Libertarian says you can't know just from the facts I've just given you. 你不知道分配是否是公正的 You can't know whether that distribution is just or unjust. 光看分配，光看结果 You can't know just by looking at a pattern or a distribution or 你很难知道它是否公正。 result whether it's just or unjust. 你必须知道它是怎么来的。 You have to know how it came to be. 你不能只看最后的阶段，最后的结果。 You can't just look at the end stage or the result. 你要看两个原则 You have to look at two principles. 第一：要看它一开始有什么，是怎么获得 The first he calls justice in acquisition or in initial holdings. 也就是说，他们是公平地获得 And what that means simply is did people get the things they used 他们所拥有的吗？ to make their money fairly? 所以，我们需要知道它们一开始是否是公正的 So we need to know was there justice in the initial holdings? 是不是他们偷了一块地，或偷窃工厂或货物 Did they steal the land or the factory or the goods 才使他们得到这笔钱？ that enabled them to make all that money? 如果没有，如果他们有权 If not, if they were entitled to whatever it was 做一切可以让他们富裕起来的事 that enabled them to gather the wealth, 第一个原则：公平竞争 the first principle is matched. 第二个原则：这种收入分配是否源自 The second principle is did the distribution arise from 经过大家同意、自愿的 the operation of free consent, people buying and trading 自由买卖？ on the market? 正如你所看到的，自由主义的思想对应于 As you can see, the libertarian idea of justice corresponds to 一个公正自由市场来提供人们所需 a free market conception of justice provided people got what they used 公平的，而不是偷来的 fairly, didn't steal it, and provided the distribution results 人们自由地买卖，导致了这种收入分配 from the free choice of individual's buying and selling things, 那么，分配是公正的。 the distribution is just. 如果没有，这是不公正的。 And if not, it's unjust. 为了解决这次讨论的问题， So let's, in order to fix ideas for this discussion, 我们举一个实际的例子。 take an actual example. 谁是美国最富有的人？ Who's the wealthiest person in the United States 全世界最富有的人？比尔盖茨。 wealthiest person in the world? Bill Gates. 是的。很正确 It is. That's right. Here he is. 你会感到高兴。 You'd be happy, too. 他的净资产是多少？有没有人知道？ Now, what's his net worth? Anybody have any idea? 这是一个很大的数字 That's a big number. 克林顿执政时期，还记得有一个颇受争议的捐助者吗？ During the Clinton years, remember there was a controversy donors? 他们邀请竞选的赞助商们 Big campaign contributors were invited to stay overnight 在白宫里的林肯卧室过夜？ in the Lincoln bedroom at the White House? 如果你捐了25000美元或以上的话 I think if you've contributed twenty five thousand dollars or above, 有人计算出，这些被邀请在林肯卧室睡一晚的赞助商们 someone figured out at the median contribution that got you invited 捐献数额的中位数 to stay a night in the Lincoln bedroom, 比尔盖茨的财富足以让他 Bill Gates could afford to stay in the Lincoln bedroom every night 在林肯卧室里睡66,000年。 for the next sixty six thousand years. 也有人计算过，他的时薪 Somebody else figured out, how much does he get paid on an hourly basis? 于是他们想，自从他创立了微软， And so they figured out, since he began Microsoft, 假设他每天工作14小时，这算是合理的猜测 I suppose he worked, what 14 hours per day, reasonable guess, 然后用他的净财富除以他的工作时间 and you calculate this net wealth, it turns out that his rate of pay 计算的结果是超过150美元，不是时薪，也不是“分薪” is over 150 dollars, not per hour, not per minute 而是秒薪超过150美元 150 dollars, more than 150 dollars per second 这意味着，如果他去办公室的途中 which means that if on his way to the office, 发现了街上有一张100美元的钞票， Gates noticed a hundred dollar bill on the street, 也不值得他停下捡起来。 it wouldn't be worth his time to stop and pick it up. 你们大多人会，像这么富有的人，我们当然可以要他交税 Now, most of you will say someone that wealthy surely we can tax them 来养活那些没饭吃，没房子住，没书读 to meet the pressing needs of people who lack in education or lack enough 那些有迫切需要的人 to eat or lack decent housing. 他们比 比尔盖茨更需要这些 They need it more than he does. 如果你是一个功利主义者，你会怎么做？ And if you were a utilitarian, what would you do? 你会采取什么税收政策？ What tax policy would you have? 你很快就重新分配了，不是吗？ You'd redistribute in a flash, wouldn't you? 因为你知道，一个优秀的功利主义者 Because you would know being a good utilitarian that taking some, 只需要一个小数目，小到你几乎忽略了它 a small amount, he'd scarcely going to notice it, 但它能给那些在底层生活的人们 but it will make a huge improvement in the lives and in the welfare 带来极大的改善 of those at the bottom. 但自由主义理论认为，我们不能只是简单地 But remember, the libertarian theory says we can't just add up an 把所有人的偏好叠加起来 aggregate preferences and satisfactions that way. 我们还要尊重个人，如果他公平地赚钱 We have to respect persons and if he earned that money fairly without 不侵犯其他人的权利，根据自由主义的这两条原则， violating anybody else's rights in accordance with the two principles 公平的获取和交换财富 of justice in acquisition and in justice in transfer, 强制性地收税是错误的，这一种胁迫， then it would be wrong, it would be a form of coercion to take it away 迈克尔乔丹虽然没有比尔盖茨富有 Michael Jordan is not as wealthy as Bill Gates but he did 但他也过得相当不错 pretty well for himself. 你想看看迈克尔乔丹。在那里 You wanna see Michael Jordan. There he is. 他的年收入是3.1千万美元 His income alone in one year was 31 million dollars and then 为耐克和其他公司代言， he made another 47 million dollars in endorsements for a Nike 他每年赚4.7千万美元 and other companies. 因此，加起来，他的年薪7.8千万美元。 So his income was, in one year, $78 million. 比方说，他收入的三分之一要用来交税 To require him to pay, let's say, a third of his earnings to 来支持诸如食品、保健、住房、穷人的教育 the government to support good causes like food and health care and 这是胁迫，这是不公正的。 housing and education for the poor, that's coercion, that's unjust. 这侵犯了他的权利。 That violates his rights. 这就是为什么收入再分配是错误的。 And that's why redistribution is wrong. 现在，有多少人赞同自由主义的这种观点 Now, how many agree with that argument, agree with the libertarian argument 认为为了帮助穷人而再分配是错的？ that redistribution for the sake of trying to help the poor is wrong? 有多少人不同意这种观点？ And how many disagree with that argument? 好吧，让我们先听听那些不同意的 All right, let's begin with those who disagree. 自由主义反对再分配，有什么地方不正确？ What's wrong with the libertarian case against redistribution? 是。 Yes. 我认为，像迈克尔乔丹，这些人已获得了 I think these people like Michael Jordan have received 我们在谈论，在一个社会里工作 we're talking about working within a society and they receive 他们已经从社会中获得更多，他们有更大的责任 a larger gift from the society and they have a larger obligation 来回报社会，通过再分配 in return to give that through redistribution, you know, 你或许说，迈克尔乔丹和其他人一样努力地工作 you can say that Michael Jordan may work just as hard as some who works, 那些洗衣服的人也每天工作12、14个小时，但乔丹却得到更多 you know, doing laundry 12 hours, 14 hours a day, but he's receiving more. 我不认为这是公平的。这原本就对乔丹有利 I don't think it's fair to say that, you know, it's all on him, 他固有的（天赋），和勤奋。 on his, you know, inherent, you know, hard work. 好吧，让我们听听支持自由主义的声音 All right, let's hear from defenders of libertarianism. 为什么在原则上，从富人身上征税来帮助穷人是错误的？ Why would it be wrong in principle to tax the rich to help the poor? 请继续。 Go ahead. 我叫Joe。我收集滑板 My name is Joe and I collect skateboards. 我有100快滑板。 I've since bought a hundred skateboards. 假设，我生活在一个人口100的社会里 I live in a society of a hundred people. 我是唯一一个拥有滑板的 I'm the only one with skateboards. 突然，大家决定他们想要一个滑板。 Suddenly, everyone decides they want a skateboard. 他们来到我家， They come to my house, they take my 拿走我的那99块滑板 they take 99 of my skateboards. 我认为这是不公正的。 I think that is unjust. 我认为在某些情况下， Now, I think in certain circumstances it becomes necessary 有必要忽视或纵容这种不正义 to overlook that unjustness, perhaps condone that injustice 例如，那个在船上活着被吃掉的男童（第一节的案例） as in the case of the cabin boy being killed for food. 当人们在死亡的边缘，忽视不公正也许是必要的 If people are on the verge of dying, perhaps it is necessary to 但我认为 overlook that injustice, but I think it's important 要记住，我们必须承认拿走他人的财物或资产 to keep in mind that we're still committing injustice 是不公平 by taking people's belongings or assets. 你是说，向迈克尔乔丹征取33%的税 Are you saying that taxing Michael Jordan, say, 贡献给公益事业是一种盗窃？ at a 33 percent tax rate for good causes to feed the hungry is theft? 我认为这是不公正的。 I think it's unjust. 是的，我相信这是盗窃，也许有必要接纳这种盗窃 Yes, I do believe it's theft but perhaps it is necessary to condone that theft. 但它确实是一种盗窃。 But it's theft. 是。 Yes. 为什么是一种盗窃，Joe？ Why is it theft, Joe? 因为 - Because -- 为什么，像你收集滑板 Why is it like your collection of skateboards? 因为，至少在我看来 It's theft because, or at least, in my opinion and by 自由主义认为，公平获得金钱，这笔钱就属于他 the libertarian opinion he earned that money fairly and it belongs to him. 因此，从他身上取走就可以定义为盗窃 So to take it from him is by definition theft. 好吧，让我们听听 All right, let's hear if there is…
有谁愿意回应Joe？好的。 Who wants to reply to Joe? Yes, go ahead. 我不认为，你有99块滑板 I don't think this is necessarily a case in which you have 99 skateboards 而政府 and the government…
或者，你有一个100块滑板，而政府取走其中的99块 or you have a hundred skateboards and the government is taking 99 of them. 这就像，你拥有比365块还多的滑板 It's like you have more skateboards than there are days in a year. 或者，你拥有多到你自己也用不完的滑板 You have more skateboards that you're going to be able to use 而政府就拿走其中的一部分。 in your entire lifetime and the government is taking part of those. 我认为，如果你生活在一个社会中 And I think that if you are operating in a society in which 如果政府不进行收入再分配 the government's not – in which the government doesn't
而允许某些人聚集这么多的财富 redistribute wealth, then that allows for people to amass 一些人拥有的，从一开始就比这些人少 so much wealth that people who haven't started from this very 而我们的假设是，一开始大家都是平均 the equal footing in our hypothetical situation, that doesn't exist 但在现实社会里这不存在 in our real society get undercut for the rest of their lives. 所以你担心，如果没有某种程度的再分配 So you're worried that if there isn't some degree of redistribution 就不会有真正的 of some or left at the bottom, there will be no genuine 机会平等。 equality of opportunity. 好的，认为税收是一种盗窃， All right, the idea that taxation is theft, Nozick更进一步地说。 Nozick takes that point one step further. 他也认为这是盗窃。但他比Joe更为苛刻 He agrees that it's theft. He's more demanding than Joe. Joe说，这是盗窃，但在某种极端的情况也许是合理的 Joe says it is theft, maybe in an extreme case it's justified, 也许，父母为了养活自己自己的家而偷一块面包 maybe a parent is justified in stealing a loaf of bread to feed his 是有道理的 or her hungry family. 所以，Joe，你会怎么称自己 So Joe I would say, what would you call yourself, 一个有同情心的准自由主义者？ a compassionate quasi-libertarian? Nozick说，如果你仔细想想， Nozick says, if you think about it, 税收等同于拿走别人的收入。 taxation amounts to the taking of earnings. 换句话说，它意味着窃取我的劳动成果。 In other words, it means taking the fruits of my labor. 但如果国家有权把我的收入或我的劳动成果拿走 But if the state has the right to take my earning or the fruits of my labor, 这等于说，国家占有我的劳动成果的一部分 isn't that morally the same as according to the state the right 在道义上是正确？ to claim a portion of my labor? 所以，实际上，税收等同于强迫劳动 So taxation actually is morally equivalent to forced labor 因为这种强迫劳动，剥夺了我的休息，我的时间，我的劳动 because forced labor involves the taking of my leisure, my time, 就像征税拿走我的劳动成果一样 my efforts, just as taxation takes the earnings that I make with my labor. 因此，对于Nozick和其他自由主义者来说 And so, for Nozick and for the libertarians, 再分配的税收是一种盗窃，但这不仅是盗窃 taxation for redistribution is theft, as Joe says, but not only theft is 它相当于剥削了我的时间和劳动 morally equivalent to laying claim to certain hours of a person's 在道义上，它等同于强迫劳动 life and labor, so it's morally equivalent to forced labor. 如果国家有权占有我的劳动成果 If the state has a right to claim the fruits of my labor, 这意味着，有名义来剥夺我的劳动成果 that implies that it really has an entitlement to my labor itself. 什么是强迫劳动？ And what is forced labor? Nozick指出，强迫劳动就像奴役 Forced labor, Nozick points out, is what, is slavery, 因为我并不是唯一能支配我的劳动的 because if I don't have the right, the sole right to my own labor, 这实际上等于，政府或社会 then that's really to say that the government or the 就相当于是我的合伙人一样 political community is a part owner in me. 而这意味着什么？ And what does it mean for the state to be a part owner in me? 这意味着我是一个奴隶， If you think about it, it means that I'm a slave, 我不拥有自己。 that I don't own myself. 那么，从这里我们推理出 So what this line of reasoning brings us to is the fundamental principle 自由主义的一个根本原则 that underlies the libertarian case for rights. 这一原则是什么？ What is that principle? 我拥有和支配我自己。 It's the idea that I own myself. 如果你真的重视个人权利，我们就能支配自己 It's the idea of self possession if you want to take right seriously. 如果你不想把整个社会的当作是个人利益的集合 If you don't want to just regard people as collections of preferences, 这引出一个基本的道德理念： the fundamental moral idea to which you will be lead is the idea 我们是自己的主人 that we are the owners or the propietors of our own person, 这就是功利主义的问题所在 and that's why utilitarianism goes wrong. 这也是为什么，取走健康病人的器官是错误的 And that's why it's wrong to yank the organs from that healthy patient. 因为，你把这个病人看作是属于你或属于整个社会 You're acting as if that patient belongs to you or to the community. 但其实，我们属于我们自己 But we belong to ourselves. 同理，立法来保护我们自己 And that's the same reason that it's wrong to make laws 立法来告诉我们要如何生活 to protect us from ourselves or to tell us how to live, 要求我们培养哪些美德，这些都是错误的 to tell us what virtues we should be governed by, 这也是为什么，从富人身上征税来帮助穷人是错误的 and that's also why it's wrong to tax the rich to help the poor 哪怕它是公益事业 even for good causes, even to help those 能帮助那些因飓风Katrina而流离失所的人 who are displaced by the Hurricane Katrina. 你可以让他们捐钱给慈善机构 Ask them to give charity. 但如果你征税，就是在强迫他们劳动。 But if you tax them, it's like forcing them to labor. 你能让乔丹不要参加下周的比赛 Could you tell Michael Jordan he has to skip the next week's games 改去帮助因飓风Katrina而流离失所的人吗？ and go down to help the people displaced by Hurricane Katrina? 在道义上，这是一样的。 Morally, it's the same. 因此，你很有可能会输掉。 So the stakes are very high. 到目前为止，我们已经听到了一些反对自由主义的观点。 So far we've heard some objections to the libertarian argument. 但如果你想反对它，你必须要驳倒 But if you want to reject it, you have to break in to 拿走我的收入就像是 this chain of reasoning which goes, taking my earnings 剥夺了我的劳动 is like taking my labor, but taking my labor 这相当于让我成为了奴隶 is making me a slave. 如果你不同意这一观点，你必须肯定 And if you disagree with that, you must believe in 自我支配的原则。 the principle of self possession. 那些不同意的同学，收集你们的反对意见 Those who disagree, gather your objections 我们将在下次讨论 and we'll begin with them next time. 阿基米德曾说
“给我一个支点，我能撬起整个地球”
如果你有好的研究想法
希望别人推你一把
“一五一十” 资助行动也许能帮到你 详情可留意www.aprilseason.com
你需要的也许就是这个支点
上次，我们讨论到自由主义。 We were talking last time about libertarianism. 我想回顾支持和反对 I want to go back to the arguments for and against 收入再分配的论点 the redistribution of income. 我们先谈一谈，"最小国家"（Nozick提出的一个的概念） But before we do that, just one word about the minimal state, 自由主义经济学家 Milton Friedman Milton Friedman, the libertarian economist, 许多我们认为是理所当然归政府管的 he points out that many of the functions that 他却认为不应该归政府管 we take for granted as properly belonging to government don't. 这是家长式的。 They are paternalist. 他举了一个关于社会保障的例子 One example he gives is social security. 他说，为了我们的退休生活而准备积蓄 He says it's a good idea for people to save for their retirement 是个好主意，但这种做法是错误的 during their earning years but it's wrong. 不管大家是否愿意，政府迫使每个人 It's a violation of people's liberty for the government to force everyone 为退休而提前积蓄一点钱 whether they want to or not to put aside some earnings today 侵犯了个人的权利 for the sake of their retirement. 如果一些人想碰碰运气，希望今天就过得好一点 If people want to take the chance or if people want to live big today 宁愿退休时生活贫穷，这是他们的选择。 and live a poor retirement, that should be their choice. 他们应自由地作出判断，接受这些风险。 They should be free to make those judgments and take those risks. 因此，即使是社会保障，国家也是不应该干涉的 So even social security would still be at odds with the minimal state Milton Friedman主张 that Milton Friedman argued for. 有时，像警察、消防，我们认为属于集体的事情 It sometimes thought that collective goods like police protection 会不可避免地让某些人搭了便车 and fire protection will inevitably create the problem of free riders 除非它们是公开提供。 unless they're publicly provided. 但我们有办法来防止搭便车。 But there are ways to prevent free riders. 有办法来限制看起来像是公众利益的 There are ways to restrict even seemingly collective goods 例如消防 like fire protection. 我读了一篇文章，一则关于私人消防公司的文章 I read an article a while back about a private fire company, 在阿肯色州的一个叫Salem的消防公司 the Salem Fire Corporation, in Arkansas. 你可以到Salem消防公司申请 You can sign up with the Salem Fire Corporation, 每年支付一定的费用，如果你的房子着火了， pay a yearly subscription fee, and if your house catches on fire, 他们会来救火。 they will come and put out the fire. 但他们不会把每个人就出来 But they won't put out everybody's fire. 他们只会帮助那些报了名的顾客灭火 They will only put it out if it's a fire in the home 或者火势蔓延威胁到 of a subscriber or if it starts to spread and to threaten 另外一个顾客的家 the home of a subscriber. 这篇新闻报道了一个屋主的故事 The newspaper article just told the story of a home owner 这个房主在过去都订了这家公司的服务 who had subscribed to this company in the past but failed 但没有及时的续约 to renew his subscription. 当他的房子着火后 His house caught on fire. Salem消防公司的卡车来了 The Salem Fire Corporation showed up with its trucks 只是袖手旁观，看着房子烧毁 and watched the house burn, 为的是确保火势没有扩散 just making sure that it didn't spread. 有人问消防队长。实际上他也不是真正的消防队长。 The fire chief was asked, well, he wasn't exactly the fire chief. 我猜他是CEO。 I guess he was the CEO. 有人问，你怎么能站在消防设备旁边 He was asked how can you stand by with fire equipment and allow 看着别人的家被烧毁了？ a person's home to burn? 他回答说，我们一旦核实，火势没有危及到我们的会员的家 He replied, once we verified there was no danger to a member's property, 根据我们的规定，我们没有选择，只能旁观 we had no choice but to back off according to our rules. 如果我们去扑灭所有的火灾，他说 If we responded to all fires, he said, there would be no incentive 大家就没必要去订我们的服务了。 to subscribe. 在这种情况下，房主试图在在火灾现场 The homeowner in this case tried to renew his subscription 当场续约 at the scene of the fire. 但该公司的负责人拒绝。 But the head of the company refused. 你不能先毁坏你的车，接着去买保险 You can't wreck your car, he said, and then buy insurance for it later. 因此，即使是一些我们认为是 So even public goods that we take for granted 政府理所当然应该负责的公众事物 that's being within the proper province of government 在原则上，它们也是可以被分离出来 can many of them in principle be isolated, 专门只给那些交了钱的人服务 made exclusive to those who pay. 这一切都与公众财产 That's all to do with the question of collective goods 和自由主义反对的家长式有关 。 and the libertarians injunction against paternalism. 但让我们先回到收入再分配的问题。 But let's go back now to the arguments about redistribution. 现在，自由主义的关于“最小国家”的基本问题 Now, underlying the libertarian's case for the minimal state 是强制。但强制错在哪里？ is a worry about coercion, but what's wrong with coercion? 自由主义给了这样一个答案： The libertarian offers this answer: 为了大众的福祉，而利用一些人是错误的 To coerce someone, to use some person for the sake of the general welfare 因为它质疑了一个基本事实，即我们拥有和支配我们自己 is wrong because it calls into question the fundamental fact that we own ourselves 质疑了我们自我支配、自由占有的这一道德事实 the fundamental moral fact of self possession or self ownership. 自由主义反对再分配的论点始于 The libertarian's argument against redistribution begins with 我们能支配自己这一基本思想 this fundamental idea that we own ourselves. Nozick说，如果整个社会都到比尔盖茨 Nozick says that if the society as a whole can go to Bill Gates 或者乔丹那里，通过税收拿去他们的财富 or go to Michael Jordan and tax away a portion of their wealth, 那样的话，我们等于是说我们的社会财产就在 what the society is really asserting is a collective property right 比尔盖茨或者乔丹那里。 in Bill Gates or in Michael Jordan. 这违反了一个基本原则：我们属于我们自己 But that violates the fundamental principle that we belong to ourselves. 我们已经听过了反对自由主义的一些意见。 Now, we've already heard a number of objections to the libertarian argument. 我想今天要听一下支持自由主义的声音 What I would like to do today is to give the libertarians among us 让他们有机会回应这一些反对的声音 a chance to answer the objections that have been raised and some have been 一些人已经表明了立场，同意到这里来 some have already identified themselves and have agreed to come and make 给那些反对自由主义的意见 the case for libertarianism to reply to the objections 一个回应 that have been raised. 举起你的手，如果你是其中一位自由主义者 So raise your hand if you are among the libertarians 准备来支持自由主义，回应那些异议 who's prepared to stand up for the theory and respond to the objections. 你是？ You are? Alex Harris。 Alex Harris.
我是那位在博客挺有名的Alex Harris Alex Harris, who's been a star on the web blog. 好吧，Alex，到这里来 All right, Alex, come here. 站起来。走到这里。 Stand up. Come. 我们将在这里建立一个自由主义者的角落。 We'll create a libertarian corner over here. 还有谁？ And who else? 还有其他想加入自由主义的？你叫什么名字？ Other libertarians who will join. What's your name? John？ John. John?
John Sheffield。 Sheffield. John Sheffield.
还有谁愿意加入？ Who else wants to join? 其他勇敢的自由主义者 Other brave libertarians who are prepared to take on 是的，你叫什么名字？Julia Rotto。 Yes, what's your name? Julia Rotto. Julia Rotto。到我们这边来 Julia Rotto. Julia, come join us over there. 现在，当自由主义者这边 Now, while the – while team libertarian
Julie, John, Alex。 Julie, John, Alex.
当自由主义者在这里聚集时， While team libertarian is gathering over there, 让我总结一下，在课堂上和在网站上 let me just summarize the main objections that I've heard 我所听到的主要的反对意见。 in class and on the website. 我来到这边 Objection number one– and here I'll come down to
我想对着这边的自由主义者们 I wanna talk to team libertarian over here. 反对意见一：穷人更需要钱。 So objection number one is that the poor need the money more. 这点很明显。穷人不仅需要钱，而且比盖茨和乔丹 That's an obvious objection, a lot more than -- thanks –
更需要钱 than do Bill Gates and Michael Jordan. 反对意见二：税收不能算是奴隶 Objection number two, it's not really slavery to tax because 至少在一个民主社会里，它不算是奴隶 at least in a democratic society it's not a slave holder. 这是个人民大会，代表民主 It's congress. It's a democratic—
Alex已经笑了 you're smiling, Alex, already. 你确信你可以回答所有这些问题？ You're confident you can reply to all of these? 因此，经过大家同意的税收不算是非强制性 So taxation by consent of the governed is not coercive. 反对意见三：一些人表示，像盖茨这类的成功人 Third, some people have said don't the successful like Gates 他们的成功归功于对社会，他们有义务通过缴纳来回馈社会 owe a debt to society for their success that they repay by paying taxes. 谁愿意来回应第一点 Who wants to respond to the first one, 穷人更需要钱？ the poor need the money more? 好的，你是吧？John All right, and you're? John. John。好的，John John. All right, John, what's the, here I'll hold it. 好的。穷人更需要钱。 All right. The poor need the money more. 这是相当明显的。我可以使用这笔钱。 That's quite obvious. I could use the money. 我当然不会介意，如果比尔盖茨 You know, I certainly wouldn't mind if Bill Gates give 给我1百万 me a million dollars. 我的意思是，我会要一千。 I mean, I'd take a thousand. 但在某些方面，你要明白 But at some point you have to understand that 重新分配财富并没有 the benefits of redistribution of wealth don't justify the initial 让一开始大家财产平均 violation of the property right. 如果你看看，穷人更需要钱这个观点 If you look at the argument the poor need the money more, 这个说法并没有违背 at no point in that argument do you contradict the fact that 我们经过推断、大家都同意的原则 we've extrapolated from, agreed upon principles 即我们拥有和支配自己这一原则 that people own themselves. 我们推断出，我们有财产支配权，因此 We've extrapolated that people have property rights and so whether or not 不管税收是否是一件好事，甚至 it would be a good thing or a nice thing or even 对一些人的生存来说，是一件必须的事情 a necessary thing for the survival of some people, 我们并没有看到，通过税收就能不违背 we don't see that that justifies the violation of the right 我们已经推断出来的原则 that we've logically extrapolated. 好的。 Good. Okay. 因此，我的意思是，仍然存在着这样一个机构 And so that also, I mean, there still exist this institution 譬如私人的慈善事业 of like individual philanthropy. Milton Friedman 做了一个论断 Milton Friedman makes this argument- 好的，比尔盖茨捐钱给慈善机构，如果他愿意的话 All right, so Bill Gates can give to charity if he wants to. 对。 Right. 但是，如果胁迫他这样做的话，仍然是错误的 But it would still be wrong to coerce him. 没错。 Exactly. 为了满足穷人的需要。 To meet the needs of the poor. 没错。 Exactly. 你们两个对这个回答满意吗？ Are the two of you happy with that reply? 有没有要补充的？好的，Julie？ Anything to add? All right, go ahead. Julie? Julie，是的。我想我还可以补充一点。没关系。 Julia, yes. I think I can also add, it's okay. 我想我可以补充一点，需要 和 应得 I guess I could add that there's a difference between needing something 之间是有区别的 and deserving something. 我的意思是，在一个理想的社会里每个人的需求将会得到满足 I mean, in an ideal society everyone's needs would be met 但我们在这里争论的是，什么是我们应该得到的 but here we're arguing what do we deserve as a society and, yeah. 这些利益并不是穷人应该得到的 And the poor don't deserve don't deserve the benefits 通过征税，用乔丹的钱来帮助他们 that would flow from taxing Michael Jordan to help them. 根据我们已经讨论过的，我不认为 Based on what we've covered here I don't think you deserve 这样的东西是我们应得的 something like that. 好吧，让我再推你把，Julia。 All right, let me push you a little bit on that, Julia. 飓风Katrina的受害者正急需帮助 The victims of Hurricane Katrina are in desperate need of help. 你会说，他们是不值得 Would you say that they don't deserve help that would come 从联邦政府的税收得到救助吗？ from the federal government through taxation? 好吧，这是一个较难回答的问题。 Okay, that's a difficult question. 我认为，在这种情况下他们需要帮助，但这些帮助不是他们本来应得的 I think this is a case where they need help, not deserve it, but I think, 如果你有一定程度的需要，来维持你的生活 again, if you had a certain level of requirements to meet sustenance, 你需要帮助，例如，如果你没有足够的粮食 you're gonna need help, like, if you don't have food 或没有地方住，这情况叫需要 or a place to live, that's a case of need. 因此，需要是一回事，应得是另一回事。 So need is one thing and deserve is another. 没错。 Exactly. 好的。谁想回应？ All right. Who would like to reply? 是。 Yes. 让我们回到你刚才所说的第一点 Going back to the first point that you made about the 个人的财产权 property rights of individual. 产权是由政府提出和执行的 The property rights are established and enforced by the government, 我们选取了代表 which is a democratic government, and we have representatives 来实现这些权利。 to enforce those rights. 如果你生活在一个遵循这些规则的社会里 If you live in a society that operates under those rules, 那么，就应该由政府来决定 then it should be up to the government to decide how 这些资源、税收怎么分配 those resources[inaudible]taxation are distributed because it is 因为它是经过政府的同意。 through the consent of the government. 如果你不同意，你可以选择不生活 If you disagree with it, you don't have to live 在这样的社会里 in that society where that operates. 好，告诉我你的名字。 All right, good, so, and tell me your name. Raul. Raul.
Raul指出，其实，Raul引出了第二点 Raul is pointing out, actually, Raul is invoking point number two. 如果税收是经过被统治者的同意 If the taxation is by the consent of the governed, 它就不是强迫的。它是合理的。 it's not coerced. It's legitimate. 比尔盖茨和乔丹是美国公民。 Bill Gates and Michael Jordan are citizens of the United States. 他们投票选出了国会。他们和与大家一样 They get to vote for congress. They get to vote their 投票决定了这些政策 policy convictions just like everybody else. 谁想继续？John吗？ Who would like to take that one on? John? 基本上，在这种情况下自由主义者是在反对 Basically, what the libertarians are objecting to in this case is 中间的80%决定了最上层的10% the middle 80 percent deciding what the top ten percent 而这样做是为了底层的10% are doing for the bottom ten percent. 等一等，John。多数决定少数 Wait, wait, wait, John. Majority. 你不相信民主？ Don't you believe in democracy? 但在某个点上 Well, right, but at some point -- 难道你不相信，我是指，你说的80% Don't you believe in, I mean, you say 80 percent, 10%。多数人的规则是什么？ 10 percent majority. Majority rule is what? 有多数人决定 The majority. 没错，但 - Exactly, but -- 在一个民主国家里。你是支持民主的，是吧？ In a democracy. Aren't you for democracy? 是的，我支持民主的，但 Yes, I'm for democracy, but 等一下。 Hang on, hang on, hang on. 民主统治和暴民统治不是同一件事情。 Democracy and mob rule aren't the same thing. 暴民统治？ Mob rule? 暴民统治，正是。 Mob rule, exactly. 在一个开放的社会，你可以 In an open society you have a recourse to address that 通过你选出来的代表来解决它 through your representatives. 而如果大多数人都同意的 And if the majority of the consent of those who are governed 你却不同意 doesn't agree with you, then you know, 如果你生活在这样的民主社会里，你就得 you're choosing to live in a society and you have to operate 服从多数人做出的决定 under what the majority the society concludes. 好的，Alex谈到了民主。 All right, Alex, on democracy. 那怎么办？ What about that? 事实上，从我那五十万分之一选出来的 The fact that I have one, you know, five hundred thousandth 一个议会代表所表决的 of the vote for one representative in congress is not the same thing 和作为我个人来决定怎么使用我的财产权 as my having the ability to decide for myself how 这两者不是同一件事 to use my property rights. 我就像是杯水车薪，你知道 I'm a drop in the bucket and, you know, well -- 我可能会在投票中输掉 You might lose the vote. 没错。 Exactly. 他们可能会 - And they might take -- 我的意思是， And I will. I mean, 我并不能决定，我是否应该 I don't have the decision right now of whether or not 纳税 to pay taxes. 如果我不想交税，我就得坐牢，或者把我驱逐出国 If I don't, I get locked in jail or they tell me to get out of the country. 不过，Alex，让我举一个关于民主的小例子。 But, Alex, Alex, let me make a small case for democracy. 看看你会怎么说 And see what you would say. 我们生活在一个民主的社会， Why can't you, we live in a democratic society with 有言论自由。 freedom of speech. 你为什么不走上竞选的讲台，去说服你的同胞 Why can't you take to the Hustings, persuade your fellow citizens 说纳税是不公正的，然后试着去取得大多数人的同意呢？ that taxation is unjust and try to get a majority? 我不认为，我们得说服2.8亿人 I don't think that people should be, should have to 仅仅为了行使我们的权利 convince 280 million others simply in order to exercise 来保护自己的所有权。 their own rights, in order to not have their self ownership violated. 我认为，我们没必要得说服2.8亿人 I think people should be able to do that without having 才能做到这一点 to convince 280 million people. 这是否意味着，你反对民主？ Does that mean you are against democracy as a whole? 我 - 没有。 I -- no. 我相信在一个非常有限的民主里 I just believe in a very limited form of democracy 用宪法来限制 whereby we have a constitution that severely limits the scope 哪些地方需要由民主决定。 of what decisions can be made democratically. 好，所以你说，民主是好的 All right, so you're saying that democracy is fine 但涉及基本权利的地方，可以不用民主决定 except where fundamental rights are involved. 是。 Yes. 我认为，你可能会赢 And I think you could win. 如果你站上竞选的讲台。让我对你刚才所说的 If you're going on the Hustings, let me add one element 补充一点 to the argument you might make. 你可以说，放下经济的辩论，撇开税收 You can say put aside the economic debates, taxation. 假设个人的宗教信仰自由受到了干涉 Suppose the individual right to religious liberty were 那么，Alex，在竞选台上 at stake, then, Alex, you could say, on the Hustings. 当然，大家也认同，我们不应该投票决定 Surely, you would all agree that we shouldn't put the right to 个人的自由 individual liberty up to a vote. 是啊，正是这样，这就是为什么我们需要 Yeah, that's exactly right, and that's why we have a 修正宪法 constitutional amendments. 以及为什么修改宪法这么难 and why do we make it so hard to amend our constitution. 所以，你会说，私有财产权 So you would say that the right to private property, 乔丹想保住他自己所赚取的财富 the right of Michael Jordan to keep all the money he makes 至少避免在收入再分配中流失 at least to protect it from redistribution is the same 和拥有言论自由，宗教信仰自由 kind of right with the same kind of weight as the right 争取大多数人的利益 to freedom of speech, the right to religious liberty, 是同等的重要 rights that should trump what the majority wants. 对。 Absolutely. 我们之所以有言论自由的权利，是因为 The reason why we have a right to free speech is because 我们有权利支配自己，表达我们的意见 we have a right to own ourselves, to exercise our voice 通过我们选择的任何方式 in any way that we choose. 好，好。 All right, good. 好的，所以我们 All right, so there we—
好的，谁想回应这个关于民主的论点 All right, who would like to respond to that argument 好吧，在那里。站起来。 about democracy being- Okay, up there. Stand up. 我认为，宗教和经济不是同一回事。 I think comparing religion economics it's not the same thing. 比尔盖茨之所以能赚这么多钱，是因为 The reason why Bill Gates is able to make so much money is because 我们生活在一个经济和社会稳定的社会里。 we live in an economically and socially stable society. 如果政府不通过税收，为那10%的穷人提供救济 And if the government didn't provide for the poor as ten percent 那么我们就需要更多的钱 as you say through taxation, then we would need more money 需要更多警察来预防犯罪。所以，不管怎样 for police to prevent crime and so, either way, 这样就需要征收更多的税来维持 there would be more taxes taken away to provide 你们刚才所提到的，政府有必要提供的公众服务 what you guys call the necessary things that the government provides. 你叫什么名字？ What's your name? 安娜。 Anna. 安娜，让我问你这个。 Anna, let me ask you this. 宗教信仰自由的基本权利和 Why is the fundamental right to religious liberty different 右边的Alex所说的私有财产权、 from the right Alex asserts as a fundamental right 保住我的收入的基本权利，两者有什么不同？ to private property and to keep what I earn? 两者有何分别？ What's the difference between the two? 因为你不会， Because you wouldn't have- 如果社会不安定，你就很难赚钱 You wouldn't be able to make money, you wouldn't be able to own property 也就无法拥有财产 if there wasn't that socially, like, if society wasn't stable, 这和信仰自由的权利完全不同 and that's completely different from religion. 信仰是个人的事情，你可以 That's like something personal, something that you can practice 在自己家里进行你的信仰。或者像我进行我信仰 on your own in your own home or like me practicing my religion 但不会影响旁边的人 is not going to affect the next person. 但如果我是穷人，我十分绝望， But if I'm poor and I'm desperate, 我可能会犯罪来养活我的家人，这就会影响其他人 like I might commit a crime to feed my family and that can affect others. 好，谢谢你。 Okay, good, thank you. 偷面包错误来养活自己挨饿的家 Would it be wrong for someone to steal a loaf of bread 是错误的？是吗？ to feed his starving family? Is that wrong? 我认为是。这是 - I believe that it is. This is -- 让我们对你们三个人做个简单的调查 Let's take a quick poll of the three of you. 你觉得是，这是错误的。对。 You say, yes, it is wrong. Yes. John呢？ John? 它违反了财产权。是错误的。 It violates property rights. It's wrong. 哪怕是为了养活家庭？ Even to save a starving family? 我的意思，养活家有其他办法 I mean there are definitely other ways around that 但如果认为可以偷面包，就不行。等一下 and by justifying, no, hang on, hang on, 你在笑 before you laugh at me. 在为盗窃行为辩护前 Before justifying the act of stealing, 你必须想到，我们已经认可的那些权利 you have to look at violating the right that we've already agreed exists, 自我占有和支配权，我的意思， the right of self possession and the possession of, I mean, 自己的东西。 your own things. 我们同意有产权。 We agree on property rights. 好的，我们都觉得是偷窃。 All right, we agree at stealing. 是的，我们觉得是偷窃。 Yeah, we agree at stealing. 所以，这和产权无关 So property rights is not the issue. 好的，但 - All right, but -- 为什么这是错的呢，为了养活你挨饿的家？ So why is it wrong to steal even to feed your starving family? 和我在一开始问过的问题 Sort of the original argument that I made in the very first 有点类似 question you asked. 行为的后果并不能为行为本身辩护 The benefits of an action don't justify, don't make the action just. Julia，你刚在是说？ Do what, what would you say, Julia? 为了养家，偷了面包是对的吗 Is it all right to steal a loaf of bread to feed a 为了救活你的孩子去偷药？ starving family or to steal a drug that your child needs to survive? 我想，老实话，我不反对这样做 I think, I'm okay with that, honestly. 即使从自由主义的观点来看， Even from the libertarian standpoint, 我想，如果说你可以 I think that, okay, saying that you can just take money 从那些富人身上任意拿钱 arbitrarily from people who have a lot to go to this pool 去帮助这些有需要的人，但 of people who need it, but you have an individual 这些需要别人帮助的人，他们有义务自己救活自己 who's acting on their own behalf to kind of save themselves and then 我想，像你提到的，像自我支配这个观念 I think you said they, for any idea like self possession, 穷人也有权自己保护自己，自己养活自己 they are also in charge of protecting themselves and keeping themselves 因此，即使是站在自由主义的立场 alive so, therefore, even for a libertarian standpoint, 偷窃可能也是对的 that might be okay. 好的，这很好，这很好。 All right, that's good, that's good. 那么，对于反对意见三呢？ All right, what about number three up here? 是不是有这样一种情况 Isn't it the case that the successful, 那些成功人、有钱人，他们有责任 the wealthy, owe a debt. 他们能有今天，不是完全靠自己。 They didn't do that all by themselves. 他们得和其他人合作，他们对社会有亏欠 They had to cooperate with other people that they owe a debt 而这种亏欠，用税收的形式来还 to society and that that's expressed in taxation. Julia，你想继续说吗？ You wanna take that on, Julia? 这一次，我觉得，从他们如何致富的这个意义上说 Okay, this one, I believe that there is not a debt to society 这些人并没有亏欠社会什么 in the sense that how did these people become wealthy? 他们做了一些社会肯定的事 They did something that society valued highly. 社会就给予和供应他们 I think that society has already been giving, been providing for them 如果真有的话，我认为这些都被可以抵消 if anything, I think it's… everything is cancelled out.
他们为社会作出一点贡献，社会也回应他们 They provided a service to society and society responded by somehow 他们获得了自己的财富 they got their wealth, so I think that -- 说具体一点 So be concrete. 像迈克尔乔丹 In the case of Michael Jordan, some…
来说明你的观点。 I mean, to illustrate your point. 有一批人在帮助他赚钱，他的队友 There were people who helped him make the money, the teammates, 那位教会他打球的教练 the coach, people who taught him how to play. 但是，我们都付了钱给他们，他们都得到了报偿 But they've, you're saying, but they've all been paid for their services. 没错，大家也从观看乔丹打球当中 Exactly, and society derived a lot of benefit and pleasure from watching 得到很多欢乐 Michael Jordan play. 我认为，这就是他给社会的回报 I think that that's how he paid his debt to society. 好，好。 All right, good. 有谁想继续说下去？是的 Who would, anyone likes to take up that point? Yes. 我认为，我们的一个假设有问题 I think that there's a problem here with that we're assuming 我们假设，当生活在一个社会里，我们能自我支配 that a person has self possession when they live in a society. 我觉得，当你在这个社会里生活，你不得不放弃这项权利 I feel like when you live in a society, you give up that right. 我的意思是，从法律上说，如果有人得罪了我 I mean, technically, if I want to personally go out and kill someone 因为我有权自我支配，所以我想把这个人给杀了 because they offend me, that is self possession. 但因为我生活在一个社会里，我不能这样做。 Because I live in a society I cannot do that. 我认为这相当于说，因为我有更多的钱 I think it's kind of equivalent to say because I have more money, 我有资源来帮助其他人 I have resources that can save people's lives, 政府是不是就可以从我身上拿钱呢？ is it not okay for the government to take that from me? 因为我生活在一个社会里，只能在一定程度上自我支配 Self possession only to a certain extent because I'm living in a society 我必须考虑到周围的人 where I have to take account of the people around me. 你叫什么名字？ So are you question, what's your name? 维多利亚。 Victoria. 维多利亚，你是在质疑自我支配这个基本前提？ Victoria, are you questioning the fundamental premise of self possession? 是。 Yes. 我认为，你并没有真正的自我支配 I think that you don't really have self possession 如果你选择了在这个社会里生活，因为你不能忽略 if you choose to live in a society because you cannot just discount 你周围的人 the people around you. 好吧，我想让这些自由主义者们，对最后一点 All right, I want to quickly get the response of the libertarian 做个简短的回应 team to the last point. 最后一点，也许像维多利亚州说的 The last point builds on, well, maybe it builds on Victoria's 我们并没有支配和拥有自己，因为 suggestion that we don't own ourselves because it says that Bill Gates 比尔盖茨 、乔丹都很富有 is wealthy, that Michael Jordan makes a huge income, 但这并不完全靠他们一个人的努力 isn't wholly their own doing. 这还靠运气，所以我们不能说 It's the product of a lot of luck and so we can't claim that they 在道义上，并不是所有钱都是他们应得的 morally deserve all the money they make. 谁想回应这点？Alex？ Who wants to reply to that? Alex? 你当然证明说... You certainly could make the case that it is not…
他们的富有不适用于他们是否心地善良， their wealth is not appropriate to the goodness in their hearts, 这并不是一个和道德有关的问题 but that's not really the morally relevant issue. 这里的论点在于，他们是通过自由交换的过程 The point is that they have received what they have through 人们自愿地和他们交换 the free exchange of people who have given them their holdings, 通常是为了换取一些服务 usually in exchange for providing some other service 很好 Good enough. 我尝试总结一下，从这次讨论中学到的 I want to try to sum up what we've learned from this discussion, 首先，让我们感谢John，Alex和Julia的出色表现 but, first, let's thank John, Alex, and Julia for a really wonderful job. 在讨论快结束的时候，维多利亚 Toward the end of the discussion just now Victoria challenged 质疑自由主义推理的一个前提 the premise of this line of reasoning that's libertarian logic. 她指出，也许我们并不能支配自己 Maybe, she suggested, we don't own ourselves after all. 如果你不赞同，自由主义者反对再分配的观点 If you reject the libertarian case against redistribution, 似乎我们能打破自由主义的逻辑 there would seem to be an incentive to break in to the libertarian line 在最一开始，在最温和的层次上 of reasoning at the earliest, at the most modest level, 这就是为什么很多人争议 which is why a lot of people disputed that taxation 认为税收在道义上等同于强迫劳动。 is morally equivalent to forced labor. 但对于自由主义的大前提 But what about the big claim, the premise, the big idea 和基本观点呢？ underlying the libertarian argument? 我们是否真的能支配自己，还是我们可以推翻这个想法 Is it true that we own ourselves or can we do without that idea 而且仍然能像自由主义者们所要的那样 and still avoid what libertarians want to avoid creating a society 反对建立一个所谓的“正义”社会，为了一部分人的利益 in an account of justice where some people can be just used 就可以从另外一部分人拿钱 for the sake of other people's welfare or even for the sake of the general good? 自由主义批判功利主义把个人当作 Libertarians combat the utilitarian idea of using people as means 谋取大众利益的工具 for the collective happiness by saying the way to put a stop 他们评判的理由是 to that utilitarian logic of using persons is to resort to 一个听起来很有说服力的想法： the intuitively powerful idea that we are the proprietors 我们是自己的主人 of our own person. 这是Alex、Julia、John、Robert Nozick这一派的观点 That's Alex and Julia and John and Robert Nozick. 如果我们质疑我们是否能自我支配 What are the consequences for a theory of justice and 那我们需要一个怎么样的关于正义的理论？ in account of rights of calling into question the idea of self possession? 难道我们又回到功利主义 Does it mean that we're back to utilitarianism and using people 把所有人的利益加起来，最后决定把那个胖子推下桥？（第一集） and aggregating preferences and pushing the fat man off the bridge? 并非是Nozick本人发展出自我支配这个概念 Nozick doesn't himself fully develop the idea of self possession. 他借用了早期的哲学家洛克 He borrows it from an earlier philosopher, John Locke. 当自然物（例如风、花草）最后变为私人财产 John Locke accounted for the rise of private property from the state of nature 洛克解释这一现象所用的逻辑，跟Nozick by a chain of reasoning very similar to the one that Nozick 和其他自由主义者用的类似 and the libertarians use. 洛克说，经过我们劳动加工之后，那些不属于任何人的自然物， John Locke said private property arises because when we mix our labor with things, 就变成了归我们所有，变成私有财产 unowned things, we come to aquire a property right in those things. 而其原因是什么？ And the reason? 原因是我们能拥有我们自己的劳动成果 The reason is that we own our own labor, 而这背后的原因何在？ and the reason for that? 因为我们是我们自己的主人 We are the proprietors, the owners of our own person. 因此，为了研究自由主义声称的 And so in order to examine the moral force of the libertarian claim 我们拥有自己，我们必须转向 that we own ourselves, we need to turn to 英国政治哲学家洛克，看看他是怎么解释 the English political philosopher, John Locke, and examine his account 私有财产的所有权和自我支配权。这也是我们下次的讨论。 of private property and self ownership and that's what we'll do next time. 任尔选择，给尔所选。（选择的后果自负） From each as they choose, to each as they are chosen.----Robert Nozick
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What's the Right Thing to Do - Lecture 2 How Much is a Life Worth
给生命贴上价格 Putting a price tag on life 上一次，我们讨论了 Last time, we argued about 英国女王与Dudley和Stephens案件 the case of The Queen v. Dudley & Stephens, 一个发生在救生艇上，人吃人的案件。 the lifeboat case, the case of cannibalism at sea. 我们讨论了发生在救生艇上的一些争论 And with the arguments about the lifeboat in mind,
关于支持还是反对Dudley和Stephens的做法的争论 the arguments for and against what Dudley and Stephens did in mind, 让我们回到哲学，边沁的功利主义哲学。 let's turn back to the philosophy, the utilitarian philosophy of Jeremy Bentham. 1748年，边沁生于在英国。在12岁时，他去了牛津大学。 Bentham was born in England in 1748. At the age of 12, he went to Oxford. 15岁时去了法学院。19岁时就拿到律师资格 At 15, he went to law school. He was admitted to the Bar at age 19 但他从来没有从事法律。 but he never practiced law. 相反，他毕生致力于法学和道德哲学。 Instead, he devoted his life to jurisprudence and moral philosophy. 上一次，我们开始谈到了边沁的功利主义。 Last time, we began to consider Bentham's version of utilitarianism. 其主要思想可以表达为： The main idea is simply stated and it's this: 不论是个人或政治道德，道德的最高原则， The highest principle of morality, whether personal or political morality, 就是为了将大众福利、集体的幸福最大化 is to maximize the general welfare, or the collective happiness, 或在快乐和痛苦之间找到平衡点; or the overall balance of pleasure over pain; 一句话，效用最大化。 in a phrase, maximize utility. 边沁是经过以下的推理，得出这个原则： Bentham arrives at this principle by the following line of reasoning: 我们都是受痛苦和快乐支配， We're all governed by pain and pleasure, 他们就像统治我们的君主，所以任何道德体系 they are our sovereign masters, and so any moral system 都要把它们考虑进去。 has to take account of them. 怎么才能最优地把这两者都考虑到？通过最大化。 How best to take account? By maximizing. 这也就引出了：追求最多数人的最大利益的原则。 And this leads to the principle of the greatest good for the greatest number. 那么我们应该把什么最大化呢？ What exactly should we maximize? 边沁告诉我们，是幸福，或者更准确，效用 - Bentham tells us happiness, or more precisely, utility - 将效用最大化，不仅是对个人 maximizing utility as a principle not only for individuals 还有集体，及立法者。 but also for communities and for legislators. “那什么是集体？”边沁问道。 "What, after all, is a community?" Bentham asks. 那就是组成这个集体的所有个人的总和。 It's the sum of the individuals who comprise it. 这就是为什么，在决定什么是最好的政策时， And that's why in deciding the best policy, 在决定法律应该怎么制定，在决定什么是公正时， in deciding what the law should be, in deciding what's just, 公民和立法者应该问自己一个的问题 citizens and legislators should ask themselves the question 如果我们把这一政策的所有好处加起来 if we add up all of the benefits of this policy 再减去所有的成本 and subtract all of the costs, the right thing to do 我们要做的就是平衡幸福和苦难后，找到最大值。 is the one that maximizes the balance of happiness over suffering. 这就是效用最大化的意思。 That's what it means to maximize utility. 今天，我想看看你是否同意这个观点， Now, today, I want to see whether you agree or disagree with it, 功利主义的逻辑常常是 and it often goes, this utilitarian logic, 建立在成本和效益分析， under the name of cost-benefit analysis, 企业和政府一直也是这么做 which is used by companies and by governments all the time. 它涉及到给所有东西赋予一个价值， And what it involves is placing a value, 通常是用美元来表示 usually a dollar value, to stand for utility on the costs 成本和各种的收益。 and the benefits of various proposals. 最近，在捷���共和国，有人提议 Recently, in the Czech Republic, there was a proposal 增加吸烟的消费税。一家叫Philip Morris的烟草公司 to increase the excise tax on smoking. Philip Morris, the tobacco company, 在捷克拥有庞大的生意 does huge business in the Czech Republic. 他们委托做了个研究，进行成本效益分析 They commissioned a study, a cost-benefit analysis 分析吸烟为捷克的成本与效益 of smoking in the Czech Republic, and what their cost-benefit 分析发现，如果允许公民吸烟，政府将收益。 analysis found was the government gains by having Czech citizens smoke. 他们怎么获益？ Now, how do they gain? 虽然这对捷克的公共财政有负面的影响 It's true that there are negative effects to the public finance 因为吸烟者增多，患病人随之增多 of the Czech government because there are increased health care 对医疗问题的投入也要增多 costs for people who develop smoking-related diseases. 另一方面，也有积极影响 On the other hand, there were positive effects 这些积极的作用累积在账本的另一边 and those were added up on the other side of the ledger. 这些积极作用，主要包括， The positive effects included, for the most part, 从销售卷烟产品中收取的各种税收 various tax revenues that the government derives from the sale 而且还包括 of cigarette products, but it also included 人们因病早死节省下来的医疗储蓄 health care savings to the government when people die early, 以及养老金储蓄（他们过早地死去，你就不用支付养老金） pension savings -- you don't have to pay pensions for as long - 同时，节省了老人住房的费用。 and also, savings in housing costs for the elderly. 而当成本和收益都加起来， And when all of the costs and benefits were added up, Philip Morris公司的研究发现，捷克政府的公共财政 the Philip Morris study found that there is a net public finance gain 将有1.47亿美元的净增益 in the Czech Republic of $147,000,000, 如果考虑到在住房、医疗、养老上的节省 and given the savings in housing, in health care, and pension costs, 对于那些因吸烟而早死的，政府能在他们每个人身上 the government enjoys savings of over $1,200 for each person 节省超过1,200元 who dies prematurely due to smoking. 成本效益分析。 Cost-benefit analysis. 现在，你们谁是支持功利主义的 Now, those among you who are defenders of utilitarianism 你可以认为这是一种不公平的测试。 may think that this is an unfair test. 报刊新闻攻击Philip Morris Philip Morris was pilloried in the press 他们为这一无情的数字而道歉。 and they issued an apology for this heartless calculation. 你可能会说，功利主义缺少了一些东西 You may say that what's missing here is something that the utilitarian 也就是人的价值 can easily incorporate, namely the value to the person 以及这些死于肺癌的人所在的家庭。 and to the families of those who die from lung cancer. 如果把人的生命价值也考虑进去会怎样？ What about the value of life? 一些成本效益分析纳入了对生命价值的考量。 Some cost-benefit analyses incorporate a measure for the value of life. 其中一起是有名的Ford Pinto案件。 One of the most famous of these involved the Ford Pinto case. 你们之中有没有人读过这个案件？ Did any of you read about that? 这是早在20世纪70年代。 This was back in the 1970s. 你还记得Ford Pinto是什么？ Do you remember what the Ford Pinto was, 是一种的车吗？有没有人知道 a kind of car? Anybody? 这是一种小型车，超小的车，很受欢迎 It was a small car, subcompact car, very popular, 但它也有问题，问题出在它的油箱 but it had one problem, which is the fuel tank 因为油箱设在汽车的背部，与后方碰撞， was at the back of the car and in rear collisions, 油箱爆炸，炸死了一些人 the fuel tank exploded and some people were killed 不少人严重受伤。 and some severely injured. 这些受害者把福特告到法院。 Victims of these injuries took Ford to court to sue. 而到了法庭上，结果是 And in the court case, it turned out that Ford 福特早就知道油箱有问题 had long since known about the vulnerable fuel tank 并且已做了成本效益分析，以确定是否应该 and had done a cost-benefit analysis to determine whether it would be 要把它设在一个特殊的挡板里 worth it to put in a special shield that would 保护油箱，来防止爆炸。 protect the fuel tank and prevent it from exploding. 他们做了成本效益分析。 They did a cost-benefit analysis. 计算每增加一个零件的成本 The cost per part to increase the safety of the Pinto, 他们算出来，每个零件要11.00美金。 they calculated at $11.00 per part. 在法庭上，福特呈上了成本效益分析 And here's -- this was the cost-benefit analysis that emerged in the trial. 12.5万辆轿车和卡车，每辆车多花11美元 Eleven dollars per part at 12.5 million cars and trucks 加起来一共要1.37亿美元的成本，来使其更安全。 came to a total cost of $137 million to improve the safety. 不过，他们还计算了，用这笔钱来 But then they calculated the benefits of spending all this money 做出一辆更安全的汽车，计算得出会有少死180人 on a safer car and they counted 180 deaths 如果每个死者分到20万元 and they assigned a dollar value, $200,000 per death, 180个死者，每人6万，然后维修的费用， 180 injuries, $67,000, and then the costs to repair, 更换2000辆车的费用， the replacement cost for 2,000 vehicles, 这些无安全装置的车将被销毁，每辆700元。 it would be destroyed without the safety device $700 per vehicle. 因此，收益变成只有四千九百五十万 So the benefits turned out to be only $49.5 million 所以他们没有安装该设备。 and so they didn't install the device. 不用说，当福特的这个备忘录 Needless to say, when this memo of the 在开庭审理时呈上时， Ford Motor Company's cost-benefit analysis came out in the trial, 让陪审团感到震惊，这些陪审员都获得了巨额的补偿金。 it appalled the jurors, who awarded a huge settlement. 这是功利主义的一个反面例子吗？ Is this a counterexample to the utilitarian idea of calculating? 因为福特公司在计算的时候把生命价值也包括在内。 Because Ford included a measure of the value of life. 现在，谁来为这个成本效益分析作辩护？ Now, who here wants to defend cost-benefit analysis 这是一个明显的反例 from this apparent counterexample? 谁要为其辩解？ Who has a defense? 或者，你是否认为这完全违背了 Or do you think this completely destroys the whole 整个功利主义的计算（原则）？ utilitarian calculus? Yes? 嗯，我想，他们又一次犯了同样的错误 Well, I think that once again, they've made the same mistake 跟以前的情况一样，他们为每条性命赋予了 the previous case did, that they assigned a dollar value 一美元的价值单位 to human life, and once again, 他们再次忽略了死伤者的家庭 they failed to take account things like suffering 所遭受的痛苦。 and emotional losses by the families. 我的意思是，他们不仅失去了家庭的收入来源，而且还失去了亲人 I mean, families lost earnings but they also lost a loved one 这些不是20万美元能衡量。 and that is more valued than $200,000. 对 - 等一下。你说得不错。你叫什么名字？ Right and -- wait, wait, wait, that's good. What's your name? Julie Roteau Julie Roteau .
Julie，如果20万美元是一个偏小的数字 So if $200,000, Julie, is too low a figure 因为它没有考虑到失去亲人的损失 because it doesn't include the loss of a loved one 以及这些年死去的生命 and the loss of those years of life, what would be - 你认为，多少才算是一个比较准确的数值？ what do you think would be a more accurate number? 我不认为我可以给一个明确的数字。我认为这种分析 I don't believe I could give a number. I think that this sort of analysis 不能应用于与生命有关的问题。 shouldn't be applied to issues of human life. 我认为不能用金钱来（解决）。 I think it can't be used monetarily. 因此，Julie说，他们不只是给的数值太小 So they didn't just put too low a number, Julie says. 而是，用数字来计算本身就是错的。 They were wrong to try to put any number at all. 好吧，让我们听听其他人 All right, let's hear someone who - 你还要考虑到通货膨胀。 You have to adjust for inflation. 你还要考虑到通货膨胀。 You have to adjust for inflation. 好的，很好。 All right, fair enough. 那么，现在这个数目应该是？ So what would the number be now? 这是35年前。 This was 35 years ago. 200万美元。 Two million dollars. 200万美元？你觉得要200万美元？ Two million dollars? You would put two million? 你叫什么名字？ And what's your name? Voytek Voytek
Voytek说，我们把通胀考虑进来。 Voytek says we have to allow for inflation. 我们要更慷慨一点。 We should be more generous. 那么，你对这样思考关于正义的问题 Then would you be satisfied that this is the right way of 满意吗？ thinking about the question? 我想，不幸的是，现在 I guess, unfortunately, it is for - 需要给出一个数字，我不肯定 there needs to be a number put somewhere, like, I'm not sure 这个数字应该是多少，但我同意 what that number would be, but I do agree that 用数值来衡量生命也是有可能的。 there could possibly be a number put on the human life. 好的，在这里，Voytek不同意Julie的想法 All right, so Voytek says, and here, he disagrees with Julie. Julie说，我们不能用数值来衡量生命 Julie says we can't put a number on human life 来做一个成本效益分析 for the purpose of a cost-benefit analysis. Voytek说，我们不得不这么做，因为我们必须作出某种决定。 Voytek says we have to because we have to make decisions somehow. 其他人怎么想呢？ What do other people think about this? 有没有人准备为这个成本效益分析辩护的？ Is there anyone prepared to defend cost-benefit analysis 是不是数字越准确越好？是吗？请继续。 here as accurate as desirable? Yes? Go ahead. 我认为，如果福特和其他汽车公司 I think that if Ford and other car companies 没有使用成本效益分析，他们最终会歇业 didn't use cost-benefit analysis, they'd eventually go out of business 因为他们无法实现盈利 because they wouldn't be able to be profitable and millions of people 数百万人将无法开车上班， wouldn't be able to use their cars to get to jobs, 赚钱养活孩子。 to put food on the table, to feed their children. 因此，我认为，如果不用成本效益分析， So I think that if cost-benefit analysis isn't employed, 在这种情况下，会损害大部人的利益。 the greater good is sacrificed, in this case. 好的，让我补充一下。你叫什么名字？ All right, let me add. What's your name? Raul。 Raul.
劳尔，最近有项研究，关于开车时 Raul, there was recently a study done about cell phone use by a driver 是否使用手机，并且引起一场争论 when people are driving a car, and there was a debate 争论是否应被禁止开车使用手机。 whether that should be banned. 是啊。 Yeah. 因开车使用手机而死去的人 And the figure was that some 2,000 people die as a result 每年约有2000人 of accidents each year using cell phones. 然而，哈佛的风险分析中心 And yet, the cost-benefit analysis which was done by the 做了成本效益分析，发现 Center for Risk Analysis at Harvard found that 如果你看一下允许使用手机所带来的效益 if you look at the benefits of the cell phone use 和因此而失去的性命，它们的价值差不多 and you put some value on the life, it comes out about the same 由于，允许人们使用手机能带来巨大的经济利益 because of the enormous economic benefit of enabling people 人们可以充分利用时间，达成交易， to take advantage of their time, not waste time, be able to make deals 与朋友交谈等。 and talk to friends and so on while they're driving. 这是不是表明，用金钱来衡量一个人的生命 Doesn't that suggest that it's a mistake to try to put 是错误的？ monetary figures on questions of human life? 嗯，我认为，如果大多数人都想着 Well, I think that if the great majority of people try to 计算出一个最大的效益值， derive maximum utility out of a service, 例如，使用手机所带来的便利 like using cell phones and the convenience that cell phones provide, 为了得到这些便利，作出一些牺牲是必要的 that sacrifice is necessary for satisfaction to occur. 你是一个十足的功利主义。 You're an outright utilitarian. 是。好吧。 Yes. Okay. 好的，最后一个问题，Raul All right then, one last question, Raul. - Okay. 我刚才问到Voytek一个问题，这个数字应该是多少 And I put this to Voytek, what dollar figure should 把生命的价值考虑进去，才足以决定要禁止使用手机？ be put on human life to decide whether to ban the use of cell phones? 嗯，我不想给出任意一个数字 Well, I don't want to arbitrarily calculate a figure, 我的意思是，现在，我认为 - I mean, right now. I think that - 你一定要经过周密地考虑？ You want to take it under advisement? 是的，我要经过周密地考虑。 Yeah, I'll take it under advisement. 但如果粗略地计算，会是多少呢？如果是2,300人死亡。好。 But what, roughly speaking, would it be? You got 2,300 deaths. - Okay. 你要给每个生命赋予一个值，才能知道 You got to assign a dollar value to know whether you want 是否足以禁止开车时使用手机。 好的。 to prevent those deaths by banning the use of cell phones in cars. - Okay. 所以，你预感是多少？100万？ So what would your hunch be? How much? A million? 200万？ 200万是Voytek给的数字。 - 是啊。 Two million? Two million was Voytek's figure. - Yeah. 是不是差不多了？ - 也许是100万 Is that about right? - Maybe a million. 100万？ - 是啊。 A million? - Yeah. 很好。谢谢。 好吧。 You know, that's good. Thank you. -Okay. 这几天，出现了一些争议， So, these are some of the controversies that arise these days 关于成本效益分析的争议，尤其是涉及到 from cost-benefit analysis, especially those that involve placing a 怎么衡量价值，最后加起来得到个数值 dollar value on everything to be added up. 那么，现在我想来谈谈那些的反对意见 Well, now I want to turn to your objections, 你不一定是反对成本效益分析 to your objections not necessarily to cost-benefit analysis specifically, 因为这只是功利主义在实际生活中的一个版本而已 because that's just one version of the utilitarian logic in practice today, 你可以，思考功利主义的整个理论 but to the theory as a whole, to the idea that the right thing to do, 政策和法律是建立在效用最大化的原则上 the just basis for policy and law is to maximize utility. 有多少人不同意功利主义，关于立法 How many disagree with the utilitarian approach to law 和公众利益的原则？ and to the common good? 有多少人同意？ How many agree with it? 同意的���更多。 So more agree than disagree. 因此，让我们听听那些批评的声音。 So let's hear from the critics. Yes? 我觉得它主要的问题在于，我觉得你不能因为 My main issue with it is that I feel like you can't say 少数人的利益和需求 that just because someone's in the minority, what they want 就比大多数的利益，价值要小 and need is less valuable than someone who is in the majority. 所以，我想，认为谋求最多人、最大化的效益 So I guess I have an issue with the idea that the greatest good 这个想法有问题 for the greatest number is okay because there are still - 那些占少数的人怎么办？ what about people who are in the lesser number? 这对他们不公平。 Like, it's not fair to them. 他们没有任何发言权。 They didn't have any say in where they wanted to be. 好的。这是一个有趣的批判。 All right. That's an interesting objection. 你担心的是那些占少数的人 You're worried about the effect on the minority. 是。 Yes. 你叫什么名字，顺便说一句？ What's your name, by the way? Anna。 Anna.
谁能给Anna一个回应？ Who has an answer to Anna's worry about the effect on the minority? 你会对Anna怎么说？ What do you say to Anna? 嗯，她说，少数派较少得到重视。 Um, she said that the minority is valued less. 我不这样认为，就个人而言， I don't think that's the case because individually, 少数人和大多数人一样。 the minority's value is just the same as the individual of the majority. 只是它们人数多一点而已。 It's just that the numbers outweigh the minority. 我的意思是在某一点，你必须作出决定 And I mean, at a certain point, you have to make a decision 对不起啊，那些占少数的人。 and I'm sorry for the minority but sometimes, 有些时候，这样是为了大多数人的利益。 it's for the general, for the greater good. 为了多数人的利益。Anna，你怎么说？ For the greater good. Anna, what do you say? 你叫什么名字？ What's your name? 杨达。 Yang-Da. 你怎么回应杨达？ What do you say to Yang-Da? 杨达说，你不得不把所有人的利益加起来 Yang-Da says you just have to add up people's preferences 而且我们也把少数派的利益也加进去 and those in the minority do have their preferences weighed. 你能举一个例子吗 Can you give an example of the kind of thing 当你说，你对功利主义的担心 you're worried about when you say you're worried about utilitarianism 因为忽略了对少数人的尊重？ violating the concern or respect due the minority? 举一个例子。 And give an example. 好吧。之前我们已经讨论过的案件， Okay. So, well, with any of the cases that we've talked about, 例如，那个沉船的案件，那个被吃掉的男孩 like for the shipwreck one, I think the boy who was eaten 他和其他人有同等的活着的权利 still had as much of a right to live as the other people 只是因为他是少数派， and just because he was the minority in that case, 他活下去的机会比其他人少了（他当时病了） the one who maybe had less of a chance to keep living, 这并不意味着，其他人就能 that doesn't mean that the others automatically 有权吃他的肉， have a right to eat him just because it would give a 让更大人生存下去。 greater amount of people a chance to live. 因此，也许少数派也有一定的权利， So there may be certain rights that the minority members have, 不应该拿他们的个人利益，来换取多数人的利益 that the individual has that shouldn't be traded off for the sake of utility? 是。 Yes. 是的，Anna？下面将是对你的想法的一个检验。 Yes, Anna? You know, this would be a test for you. 早在古罗马，他们把基督徒丢在斗兽场 Back in Ancient Rome, they threw Christians to the lions 的狮子群里。 in the Colosseum for sport. 你觉得，功利主义会如何计算 If you think how the utilitarian calculus would go, 是的，基督教被抛进狮子群里，承受着巨大的痛苦 yes, the Christian thrown to the lions suffers enormous excruciating pain. 但看看罗马人的狂喜！ But look at the collective ecstasy of the Romans! 杨达。 Yang-Da. 那么，在那个年代..我不..如果在现代这个年代， Well, in that time, I don't -- if -- in modern day of time, 给那些围观的人，所得到的快乐 to value the -- to give a number to the happiness 赋予一个价值，我不认为， given to the people watching, I don't think any, like, 政策制定者会说，一个人的痛苦 policymaker would say the pain of one person, of the suffering 一个人会比，我的意思是，相比较而言 of one person is much, much -- is, I mean, in comparison 获得的快乐要多，也就是- to the happiness gained, it's - 不，如果有足够多的罗马人 No, but you have to admit that if there were enough Romans 他们都开心发狂，它甚至会超过了 delirious enough with happiness, it would outweigh even the 这些被仍在狮子群里的基督徒所忍受的惨痛 most excruciating pain of a handful of Christians thrown to the lion. 因此，在这里，我们有两种不同的反对功利主义的意见。 So we really have here two different objections to utilitarianism. 其中一种，考虑到是否要充分尊重 One has to do with whether utilitarianism adequately respects 个人或少数人的权利，而另一个种意见 individual rights or minority rights, and the other has to do with 考虑到怎么把整体的利益加起来。 the whole idea of aggregating utility or preferences or values. 是否有可能，把所有利益加起来，换算成美元价值？ Is it possible to aggregate all values to translate them into dollar terms? 在20世纪30年代，有个心理学家 There was, in the 1930s, a psychologist who tried 试图解决第二个问题。 to address this second question. 他试图证明功利主义的假设 He tried to prove what utilitarianism assumes, 我们可以将所有商品、价值、人文关怀 that it is possible to translate all goods, all values, 转换成一个统一的度量 all human concerns into a single uniform measure, 他给那些领取救济的年轻人，做了个调查 and he did this by conducting a survey of young recipients of relief, 这是在20世纪30年代，他问这些年轻人， this was in the 1930s, and he asked them, 他列了一个不愉快体验的清单，然后他问他们， he gave them a list of unpleasant experiences and he asked them, “付多少钱，你会愿意忍受这些体验？” "How much would you have to be paid to undergo the following experiences?" 他一直跟踪调查。 and he kept track. 举例来说，你愿意付多少钱 For example, how much would you have to be paid 来拔掉你的一颗上门牙？ to have one upper front tooth pulled out? 或者，你愿意支付多少钱来换取你的一个小脚趾？ Or how much would you have to be paid to have one little toe cut off? 或者吞下一只6英寸长的活蚯蚓？ Or to eat a live earthworm six inches long? 或住在堪萨斯州的一个农场来度过你的余生？ Or to live the rest of your life on a farm in Kansas? 或者用亲手把一只流浪猫弄到窒息而死？ Or to choke a stray cat to death with your bare hands? 你猜这个清单上，最昂贵的是哪一条？ Now, what do you suppose was the most expensive item on that list? - Kansas! 堪萨斯？ Kansas? 是的，是堪萨斯州。 You're right, it was Kansas. 如果要他们选择住在堪萨斯州，别人要支付他们 For Kansas, people said they'd have to pay them - 30万美元。 they have to be paid $300,000. 你认为，接下来哪一条最贵？ What do you think was the next most expensive? 不是猫。 Not the cat. 也不是拔掉一颗牙。 Not the tooth. 不是切掉脚趾。 Not the toe. 是吞下蚯蚓！ The worm! 你得支付他们10万美元，他们才肯吞下蚯蚓 People said you'd have to pay them $100,000 to eat the worm. 你认为，哪条是最便宜？ What do you think was the least expensive item? 不是猫。 Not the cat. 是拔牙。 The tooth. 在大萧条时期，人们还是愿意 During the Depression, people were willing to have their 拔掉一颗牙来换取4,500元。 tooth pulled for only $4,500. 什么？ What? 下面是桑代克(著名的心理学家）从这个研究得出的结论 Now, here's what Thorndike concluded from his study. 任何一种欲望只要存在，就必须以一定的程度存在着 Any want or a satisfaction which exists exists in some amount 因此，它们都是可以衡量的。 and is therefore measurable. 狗、猫或一只鸡的生命 The life of a dog or a cat or a chicken consists of appetites, 由食欲、渴望、欲望、满足来组成。 cravings, desires, and their gratifications. 人类也是如此，虽然人类的食欲 So does the life of human beings, though the appetites 和欲望更加复杂。 and desires are more complicated. 你怎么看桑代克的研究？ But what about Thorndike's study? 它是否支持边沁的理论， Does it support Bentham's idea that all goods, 所有的商品、价值都用一个统一的价值来衡量？ all values can be captured according to a single uniform measure of value? 抑或是，这个列着各式荒诞行为的清单 Or does the preposterous character of those different items on the list 提出了相反的结论， suggest the opposite conclusion that maybe, 不论是生命、堪萨斯或蠕虫时， whether we're talking about life or Kansas or the worm, 也许很多我们珍视的事情是不能 maybe the things we value and cherish can't be captured 用某种统一的价值来换取？ according to a single uniform measure of value? 如果是不能的话，结果是怎样 And if they can't, what are the consequences 功利主义的道德理论，结果会是怎样？ for the utilitarian theory of morality? 我们将在下一次继续讨论这个问题。 That's a question we'll continue with next time. 上一次，我们开始考虑一些 Last time, we began to consider some objections to 反对边沁的功利主义的意见。 Jeremy Bentham's version of utilitarianism. 人们提出了两种反对意见。 People raised two objections in the discussion we had. 首先是反对，功利主义 The first was the objection, the claim that utilitarianism, 只考虑最大多数人的最大效益 by concerning itself with the greatest good for the greatest number, 没有充分尊重个人的权利。 fails adequately to respect individual rights. 今天，我们讨论有关酷刑和恐怖主义。 Today, we have debates about torture and terrorism. 假设一个恐怖嫌疑人，在9月10日被捕 Suppose a suspected terrorist was apprehended on September 10th 你有理由相信，从疑犯身上能得到关于 and you had reason to believe that the suspect had crucial information 一起将会让3000人遇害的恐怖袭击的重要信息 about an impending terrorist attack that would kill over 3,000 people 但你现在还得不到这些信息。 and you couldn't extract the information. 为了获取信息，用酷刑来折磨嫌疑人是否合理 Would it be just to torture the suspect to get the information 或者你会说不可以，我们绝对要 or do you say no, there is a categorical moral duty 尊重个人的权利？ of respect for individual rights? 从某种意义上说，我们又回到我们一开始的问题 In a way, we're back to the questions we started with 关于Charlie Carson的器官移植。 about Charlie Carson organ transplant. 这是第一个问题。 So that's the first issue. 而且你们还记得，我们考虑了一些 And you remember, we considered some examples 成本效益分析的例子，但很多人对这样做不满 of cost-benefit analysis, but a lot of people were unhappy 当它用金钱 with cost-benefit analysis when it came to placing 来衡量人们的生命。 a dollar value on human life. 因此，这引出了第二种反对的意见。 And so that led us to the second objection. 我们质疑：是否有可能将所有东西都转化成 It questioned whether it's possible to translate all values into 一个统一的价值尺度。 a single uniform measure of value. 换句话说，它要求所有的东西是可度量、相称的。 It asks, in other words, whether all values are commensurable. 让我再举另外一个例子。 Let me give you one other example of an experience. 这实际上是一个真实的故事。 This actually is a true story. 它来源于个人的经历 It comes from personal experience that raises a question 它让我们思考，是否能无损失地将所有东西 at least about whether all values can be translated without loss 完全转换成功利主义里所说的效益。 into utilitarian terms. 几年前，当我还是一名研究生， Some years ago, when I was a graduate student, 我当时在英国牛津，我们有男子和女子学院。 I was at Oxford in England and they had men's and women's colleges. 男女还是分开，而女子学院 They weren't yet mixed and the women's colleges 规定不准男生夜访。 had rules against overnight male guests. 到了70年代，这些规定很少得到执行 By the 1970s, these rules were rarely enforced and easily violated, 而且很轻易就违反了，有人这样告诉我 or so I was told. 到70年代末，当我在那里学习时 By the late 1970s, when I was there, 大家放松了这些规定，这些规定也成为了争论的话题 pressure grew to relax these rules and it became the subject of debate 在St. Anne's学院的教师当中， among the faculty at St. Anne's College, St. Anne's学院也是一所女子学院 which was one of these all-women's colleges. 学院里年级较大的老师都比较传统 The older women on the faculty were traditionalists. 他们反对改变传统。 They were opposed to change unconventional moral grounds. 然而时代变了，他们也给不出一个合理的 But times have changed and they were embarrassed 反对的理由，所以他们 to give the true grounds for their objection and so they translated 用功利主义的论述来作为他们的论点。 their arguments into utilitarian terms. “如果男生在女生宿舍过夜”，他们称 "If men stay overnight", they argued, “学院的支出将会增加。” "the costs to the college will increase." “怎么个增加法？”你可能想知道。 "How?" you might wonder. “嗯，他们要洗澡 "Well, they'll want to take baths 而且会消耗很多热水，“他们说。 and that'll use up hot water," they said. 此外，他们认为， Furthermore, they argued, “我们将不得不，更加频繁地更换床垫。” "We'll have to replace the mattresses more often." 支持改革的人，作出回应 The reformers met these arguments by adopting the following compromise. 每个女生每周，最多只能让男生夜访3次 Each woman could have a maximum of three overnight male guests each week. 他们没有明说，是同一个人或三个不同的人 They didn't say whether it had to be the same one or three different 这是支持改革者作出的妥协， provided, and this was the compromise, 访客得为大学支付50便士的费用。 provided the guest paid 50 pence to defray the cost to the college. 第二天，全国的报纸头条就写着 The next day, the national headline in the national newspaper read, “St. Anne女生，50便士一晚。” "St. Anne's Girls, 50 Pence A Night." 将所有东西换算成价值的困难之处 Another illustration of the difficulty of translating all values, 在这种情况下，凭借某种方法，来转换��功利主义的效益。 in this case, a certain idea of virtue, into utilitarian terms. 这些都阐述了，第二种反对功利主义的意见 So, that's all to illustrate the second objection to utilitarianism, 至少说明了一部分。关于功利主义 at least the part of that objection, that questions whether utilitarianism 是否能将所有东西的价值统一化的假设 is right to assume that we can assume the uniformity of value, 将所有价值、道德因素都同等地 the commensurability of all values and translate all moral considerations 转换成美元或金钱。 into dollars or money. 但这也有另外一个顾虑 But there is a second aspect to this worry about 怎么将价值叠加起来 aggregating values and preferences. 为什么我们要把所有人的利益叠加起来 Why should we weigh all preferences that people have without assessing 而没有考量到，哪些是好的，哪些是坏的？ whether they're good preferences or bad preferences? 我们是否应该区分较高层次的快乐，和低级快乐？ Shouldn't we distinguish between higher pleasures and lower pleasures? 现在，其中一个考虑点是， Now, part of the appeal of not making any qualitative distinctions 是否不应区分开，人们价值好坏的问题， about the worth of people's preferences, 另外一点是，它是公正和平等的 part of the appeal is that it is nonjudgmental and egalitarian. 边沁的功利主义认为，每个人的喜好都要考虑 The Benthamite utilitarian says everybody's preferences count 不管它们是什么， and they count regardless of what people want, 不管是什么让不同的人快乐起来。 regardless of what makes different people happy. 对于边沁来说，所有的事情 For Bentham, all that matters, you'll remember, 都只是快乐或痛苦的强度大小、持续时间长短问题 are the intensity and the duration of a pleasure or pain. 所谓的“更高级的快乐，或更崇高的美德” The so-called "higher pleasures or nobler virtues" 对于边沁来说 are simply those, according to Bentham, 都只是更强、更持久的快乐而已 that produce stronger, longer pleasure. 用一个很有名短语来形容就是 Yet a famous phrase to express this idea, 快乐不分多少，图钉跟诗一样好。 the quantity of pleasure being equal, pushpin is as good as poetry. 图钉是什么？ What was pushpin? 图钉是孩子玩的一种游戏，如tiddlywinks。 It was some kind of a child's game, like tiddlywinks. “图钉跟诗一样好”，边沁说。 "Pushpin is as good as poetry", Bentham says. 我认为这种想法的背后， And lying behind this idea, I think, is the claim, the intuition, 它是一个假定，判断谁的快乐 that it's a presumption to judge whose pleasures 在本质上是更高级、更有价值，或更好。 are intrinsically higher or worthier or better. 有趣的是，如果你拒绝去做这一区分 And there is something attractive in this refusal to judge. 有些人喜欢莫扎特，有些人喜欢麦当娜 After all, some people like Mozart, others Madonna. 有些人喜欢芭蕾，其他人喜欢保龄球 Some people like ballet, others bowling. 边沁也许争辩说， Who's to say, a Benthamite might argue, 谁敢说，这些快乐中，有些人的快乐更高级 who is to say which of these pleasures, whose pleasures are higher, 更有价值的，更高尚呢？ worthier, nobler than others? 但拒绝做定性的区分，是否就是正确的呢？ But is that right, this refusal to make qualitative distinctions? 我们能否完全不考虑 Can we altogether dispense with the idea that 我们在某些事情上的快乐，比其他更好或更有价值呢？ certain things we take pleasure in are better or worthier than others? 回想起之前在罗马斗兽场的例子。 Think back to the case of the Romans in the Colosseum. 这一做法困扰人们的地方在于 One thing that troubled people about that practice is that it seemed 它似乎侵犯了这些基督教徒的权利。 to violate the rights of the Christian. 另一个反对这一做法的 Another way of objection to what's going on there 就是这些罗马人在这场血腥中获得的快乐 is that the pleasure that the Romans take in this bloody spectacle, 这种快乐，是可耻的、堕落的、有辱人格的快乐 should that pleasure, which is abased, kind of corrupt, degrading pleasure, 是否应该，对某些快乐加以评价和权衡 should that even be valorized or weighed in deciding 在决定什么是大众的利益时？ what the general welfare is? 这是反对边沁的功利主义的一些意见 So here are the objections to Bentham's utilitarianism 现在，我们来看看，试图回应这些反对意见的人 and now, we turn to someone who tried to respond to those objections, 近代的功利主义者，约翰·密尔。 a latter-day utilitarian, John Stuart Mill. 现在，我们要看看约翰·密尔 So what we need to examine now is whether John Stuart Mill 给出什么令人信服的辩解。 had a convincing reply to these objections to utilitarianism. 约翰·密尔出生于1806年。 John Stuart Mill was born in 1806. 他的父亲，詹姆斯·密尔是边沁的徒弟 His father, James Mill, was a disciple of Bentham's, 詹姆士穆勒正着手给他的儿子 and James Mill set about giving his son, John Stuart Mill, 树立榜样。 a model education. 约翰·密尔是个小门徒 {\fn微软雅黑\fs13}He was a child {\fn微软雅黑\fs12\3c&HFF8000&}protégé, {\fn微软雅黑\fs13}John Stuart Mill.
他3岁是会希腊语，8岁会拉丁文， He knew Greek at the age of three, Latin at eight, 10岁时，他写了《罗马法史》 and age 10, he wrote "A History of Roman Law." 20岁时，他精神崩溃。 At age 20, he had a nervous breakdown. 这让他抑郁了5年，但在25岁， This left him in a depression for five years, but at age 25, 让他走出抑郁 what helped lift him out of this depression 是他遇上了Harriet Taylor。 is that he met Harriet Taylor. 他们后来结了婚，一直过得很幸福， She and Mill got married, they lived happily ever after, 正是在她的影响下，约翰·密尔 and it was under her influence that John Stuart Mill 试图把功利主义变得人性化 tried to humanize utilitarianism. 密尔试图 What Mill tried to do was to see whether the 完善功利主义 utilitarian calculus could be enlarged and modified to 使其融进人文关怀 accommodate humanitarian concerns, like the concern to 例如考虑到尊重个人权利 respect individual rights, and also to address the distinction 区分了高级和低级的乐趣 between higher and lower pleasures. 1859年，密尔写了一本关于自由的有名的书 In 1859, Mill wrote a famous book on liberty, 书中的主要论点是 the main point of which was the importance 维护个人和少数人的权利的重要性 of defending individual rights and minority rights, 1861年，当他接近生命的终点时， and in 1861, toward the end of his life, 他写下了我们这门课的其中一本书，《功利主义》 he wrote the book we read as part of this course, "Utilitarianism." 他清楚地表明，效用是道德的唯一标准， He makes it clear that utility is the only standard of morality, 所以他并没有违背边沁的假设。 in his view, so he's not challenging Bentham's premise. 而是坚定了他的观点。 He's affirming it. 他说，很明确地说：“证明某样东西是更令人喜欢 He says very explicitly, "The sole evidence it is possible 唯一证据就是人们都喜欢它” to produce that anything is desirable is that people actually do desire it." 他留下了一个想法，我们真实存在的欲望 So he stays with the idea that our de facto actual empirical desires 是道德判断的唯一基础。 are the only basis for moral judgment. 但在第二章，第8页， But then, page eight, also in chapter two, 他认为，功利主义是可以 he argues that it is possible for a utilitarian to distinguish 区分高级或低级的乐趣。 higher from lower pleasures. 现在，你们谁看过密尔的文章 Now, for those of you who have read Mill already, 根据他的理论，是怎么样作出这种区分？ how, according to him, is it possible to draw that distinction? 功利主义是怎样从定性上把高级的快乐 How can a utilitarian distinguish qualitatively higher pleasures 从低级的、可耻的、无意义的快乐区分出来？是的？ from lesser ones, base ones, unworthy ones? Yes? 如果你尝试过这两者，你会更喜欢更高级的 If you've tried both of them and you prefer the higher one, 很自然地，一直地 naturally, always. 很好。 That's great. That's right. 你叫什么名字？ - 约翰。 What's your name? - John. 就像约翰指出的，密尔说，我们是这样给它定性的： So as John points out, Mill says here's the test. 既然我们不能走出实际的愿望， Since we can't step outside actual desires, 因为它们会违反功利主义的假设， actual preferences that would violate utilitarian premises, 检验一种乐趣是高级还是低级 the only test of whether a pleasure is higher or lower 需要你把这两种乐趣都体验过之后，更偏爱其中一种 is whether someone who has experienced both would prefer it. 在第二章，我们看到了 And here, in chapter two, we see the passage where 密尔指出来，约翰刚才所说的。 Mill makes the point that John just described. “两种乐趣之中，如果其中一种是 "Of two pleasures, if there be one to which 所有（或几乎所有）体验过这两者之后，还偏爱其中一种 all or almost all who have experience of both give a decided preference, 不管任何的道义责任，你还喜欢它 - irrespective of any feeling of moral obligation to prefer it -- 换句话说，没有外部独立的标准 in other words, no outside, no independent standard -- then, 它是在比较之下，我们更喜欢的那一者。“ that is the more desirable pleasure." 大家对这种论点怎么看？ What do people think about that argument? 是否成功了？ Does it succeed? 有多少人认为，它成功地 How many think that it does succeed of arguing 在功利主义的框架中 within utilitarian terms for a distinction between 成功地区分了高级和低级的快乐？ higher and lower pleasures? 有多少人觉得这并没有成功？ How many think it doesn't succeed? 我想听听你的理由。 I want to hear your reasons. 但是，在我们给出我们的理由之前 But before we give the reasons 让我们按照密尔的说法，做一个实验 let's do an experiment of Mill's claim. 我们将会观看 In order to do this experiment, we're going to look at 三个娱乐的短片。 three short excerpts of popular entertainment. 第一个是一段哈姆雷特的独白。 The first one is a Hamlet soliloquy. 接着是两个其他方面的体验。 It'll be followed by two other experiences. 看看你是怎么想的 See what you think. 人类是一件多么了不起的作品！，如何高尚的理由， What a piece of work is a man! How noble in reason! 能力如此无穷, 动作多么迅速 How infinite in faculties,In form and moving 动若天使，令人赞叹 how express and admirable, in action how like an angel, 思若上帝！ in apprehension how like a god! 世界之美，万物之灵 The beauty of the world, the paragon of animals - 可是，对于我，这点泥土里提炼出来的玩意儿算得了什么呢？ and yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? 人类不能让我愉悦（下一句：不，女人也不行。 ） Man delights not me.（no, nor woman neither. ） 想像这样一个世界里，你最大的担忧变成现实。 Imagine a world where your greatest fears become reality. 啊！他们正在吞噬着我！ Ahh! They're biting me! 每场演出，6名来自全国各地的参赛者 Each show, six contestants from around the country 表扬三个特技， 刀光剑影 battle each other in three extreme stunts. 呜！ Ow! 这些特技专门用来为难这些参赛者的 These stunts are designed to challenge the contestants 既是身体上的，也是心理上的 both physically and mentally. 6名选手，3项特技，1个赢家。 Six contestants, three stunts, one winner. 是！ Whooo！ Yes! Whooo! 《谁敢来挑战》 Fear Factor. 你好diddily-ho，pedal-to-the-metal-o-philes。 Hi-diddily-ho, pedal-to-the-metal-o-philes. Flanders，你是什么时候开始喜欢酷的东西？ Flanders, since when do you like anything cool? 嗯，我不在乎速度，但我无法得到满足 Well, I don't care for the speed but I can't get enough 这一安全装置。头盔，侧倾杆，警告标志... of that safety gear. Helmets, roll bars, caution flags... 我喜欢新鲜的空气... I like the fresh air... 看着内场的穷人。 and looking at the poor people in the infield. Dang，Cletus，为什么你把车停在我父母的车旁边？ Dang, Cletus, why'd you have to park by my parents? 亲爱的，他们是我的父母了。 Now, Honey, they's my parents too. 我甚至不用问你最喜欢哪一种。 I don't even have to ask which one you liked most. Simpsons，有多少人最喜欢Simpsons？ The Simpsons, how many liked The Simpsons most? 有多少会选莎士比亚？ How many Shakespeare? 《谁敢来挑战》呢？ What about Fear Factor? 有谁会选《谁敢来挑战》？ How many preferred Fear Factor? 真的吗？ Really? 超过半数的人更喜欢Simpsons，而不是莎士比亚 People overwhelmingly like The Simpsons better than Shakespeare. 好，现在，让我们看看投票结果 All right, now, let's take the other part of the poll, 这一次是选最开心的经历 which is the highest experience or pleasure. 有多少人选择莎士比亚？ How many say Shakespeare? 有多少人选《谁敢来挑战》？ How many say Fear Factor? 不，你不是认真的。真的吗？什么？ No, you can't be serious. Really? What? 好的，请继续。你可以说一下。 All right, go ahead. You can say it. 我发现它是最有趣的。 I found that one the most entertaining. 我知道，但你认为它是最有价值的， I know, but which do you think was the worthiest, 最高贵的体验？ the noblest experience? 我知道，你会觉得它最有趣。 I know you found it the most entertaining. 如果一样东西是好的，因为它能带来快乐 If something is good just because it is pleasurable, 那样的话，你就不用在意觉得好的 what does it matter whether you have sort of an 别人是否会觉得不好？ abstract idea of whether it is good by someone else's sense or not? 好吧，你回到边沁。 All right, so you come down in the straight Benthamite side. 谁来做判断，我们判断的理由是什么， Who is to judge and why should we judge, 除了把真实的喜好记下来，并叠加起来？ apart from just registering and aggregating de facto preference? 好的。你叫什么名字？ All right, that's fair enough. And what's your name? Nate，好的。 Nate, okay, fair enough. 好的，怎么很多人认为Simpsons All right, so how many think The Simpsons is actually, 除了因为你喜欢它，它实际上也是一种高级的体验呢？ apart from liking it, is actually the higher experience? 而且是比莎士比亚高呢？ Higher than Shakespeare? 好吧，让我们再看看多少人投莎士比亚。 All right, let's see the vote for Shakespeare again. 多少人认为莎士比亚是高级的呢？ How many think Shakespeare is higher? 好的。那么，理由是什么？ All right. So why is it -- ideally, 我想听听，有谁是认为 I'd like to hear from someone, is there someone who thinks 莎士比亚是最高级的，尽管你也喜欢看Simpsons？ Shakespeare is highest but who preferred watching The Simpsons? 是的？ Yes? 我想，只是坐着看Simpsons， Like, I guess just sitting and watching The Simpsons, 它是有趣的，因为给我们带来了欢笑 it's entertaining because they make jokes and they make us laugh. 但是，有人告诉我们，莎士比亚是伟大的作家。 But like, someone has to tell us that Shakespeare was this great writer. 我们必须要学会如何读他，如何理解他。 We had to be taught how to read him, how to understand him. 我们必须要学习Rembrandt（一位艺术家）， We had to be taught how to kind of take in Rembrandt, 学习如何分析的一幅油画。 how to analyze a painting. 你叫什么名字？ But let me -- what's your name? Anisha。 Anisha.
Anisha，当有人告诉你说，莎士比亚是更好的 - Anisha, when you say someone told you that Shakespeare is better -- 对。 Right. 您是否就深信不疑呢？ Are you accepting it on blind faith? 你选了莎士比亚 You voted that Shakespeare is higher 不仅是因为大众告诉你， only because the culture tells you that 或者教师告诉你，还是你的确这样认同？ or teachers tell you that or do you actually agree with that yourself? 哦，在这个意义上，我不觉得会是莎士比亚 Well, in the sense that Shakespeare no, 但之前你提到了Rembrandt的例子。 but earlier you made an example of Rembrandt. 我觉得，看漫画时我更享受 I feel like I would enjoy reading a comic book 而不是看Rembrandt的分析 more than I would enjoy kind of analyzing Rembrandt 因为有人告诉我，这是伟大的 - 是的。 because someone told me it was great, you know. - Right. 因此似乎就是这样子，你的意思是 So some of this seems to be, you're suggesting, 一种文化的约定、压力。 a kind of a cultural convention and pressure. 我们被告知什么书、什么样的艺术作品是伟大的。 We're told what books, what works of art are great. - Right. 还有谁？ Who else? 是的？ Yes? 虽然我喜欢看Simpsons Although I enjoyed watching The Simpsons more 但在这一刻，讨论到正义时，如果我要选择 in this particular moment, in justice, if I were to spend 在这3种不同的短片里，选择一种来度过我的余生 the rest of my life considering the three different video clips shown, 我不选择看Simpsons来度过我的余生 I would not want to spend that remainder of my life 考虑到后两个短片。 considering the latter two clips. 我想，我会获得更多的乐趣 I think I would derive more pleasure from being able to branch out in my 从这更深层次的愉悦和思考之中 own mind sort of considering more deep pleasures, more deep thoughts. 告诉我你的名字。 And tell me your name. 乔。 Joe. 乔，因此，如果你将在一个农场度过你的余生 Joe, so if you had to spend the rest of your life on a farm 在堪萨斯州，只有莎士比亚 in Kansas with only Shakespeare or the collected episodes 或者Simpsons的短片，你会倾向于莎士比亚？ of The Simpsons, you would prefer Shakespeare? 你从密尔的这个测试中，大概能得出什么结论 What do you conclude from that about John Stuart Mill's test that the test 检验它是否是高级的，就是体验过两者之后选择其一？ of a higher pleasure is whether people who have experienced both prefer it? 我可以举出另外一个简单的例子吗？ Can I cite another example briefly? 好啊。 Yeah. 去年的神经生物学，告诉我们 In Neurobiology last year, we were told of a rat 测试小白鼠大脑的某个部位 who was tested a particular center in the brain where the rat was able 这个区能刺激大脑，持续地让大脑兴奋 to stimulate his brain and caused itself intense pleasure repeatedly. 小白鼠不吃不喝，直到死亡。 The rat did not eat or drink until it died. 很显然，小白鼠体验了强烈的快感 So the rat was clearly experiencing intense pleasure. 现在，如果你问我，我是否愿意体验 Now, if you ask me right now if I would rather experience 这种强烈的快感，或一生都体验着高级的快乐 intense pleasure or have a full lifetime of higher pleasure, 我会觉得这种强烈的快乐是低级的 I would consider intense pleasure to be low pleasure. 虽然我会很享受强烈的快感，但 I would right now enjoy intense pleasure but - 是的，我会的。 -- yes, I would. 我当然会。 I certainly would. 不过，如果是一生，我想，我觉得几乎大多数人都会同意， But over a lifetime, I think I would think almost a complete majority here would agree that they would rather 大多数人会同意，他们宁愿选择 a complete majority here would agree that they would rather 一个具更高级的乐趣，而不是像小白鼠强烈的、 be a human with higher pleasure than be that rat with intense pleasure 而又短暂的快感 for a momentary period of time. 在回答你的问题前，我认为这证明了 - Now, in answer to your question, I think this proves that - 或者我不会说“证明”。 or I won't say "proves." 我认为，密尔的理论，结论是 I think the conclusion is that Mill's theory that when a majority 当大多数人被问道，他们愿意做什么时 of people are asked what they would rather do, 他们会回答，他们选择更高级的乐趣。 they will answer that they would rather engage in a higher pleasure. 那么，你认为，这支持密尔的观点？ So you think that this support Mill's you think Mill is onto something here? 是的。 I do. 好的，是否有人不同意乔的观点 All right, Is there anyone who disagrees with Joe and who thinks 认为我们的实验驳倒了密尔的测试， that our experiment disproves Mill's test, 认为并没有一种适当的方式 shows that that's not an adequate way, that you can't distinguish 在功利主义的框架内，区分出更高级的快乐？ higher pleasures within the utilitarian framework? 是吗？ Yes? 如果它是好是坏，就是因为人们是否跟喜欢它 If whatever is good is truly just whatever people prefer, 它的好坏是相对的，并没有客观的定义， it's truly relative and there's no objective definition, 那么，就会有些人更喜欢Simpsons。 then there will be some society where people prefer Simpsons more. 任何人都可以欣赏Simpsons，但我认为 Anyone can appreciate The Simpsons but I think it does take education 我们需要经过学习，才能欣赏莎士比亚。 to appreciate Shakespeare as much. 好的，你说需要学习 All right, you're saying it takes education 才能欣赏真正更高级的事情。 to appreciate higher true things. 密尔观点是，更高级的快乐确实需要 Mill's point is that the higher pleasures do require 经过培养、欣赏和教育。 cultivation and appreciation and education. 他不否认这点。 He doesn't dispute that. 但是，一旦被培养和教育，人们将会看到， But once having been cultivated and educated, people will see, 不但可以看到高级和低级的快乐不同， not only see the difference between higher and lower pleasures, 而且，事实上人们会选择更高级的，而非低级的 but will actually prefer the higher to the lower. 你能找到约翰密尔的一段很著名的话 You find this famous passage from John Stuart Mill. “宁可像人类那样饥渴，也不要像猪一样饱足 "It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; 宁可像让苏格拉底饿着，也不要把一个傻瓜喂饱。 better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied. 而且，如果傻瓜或猪有不同的意见， And if the fool, or the pig, are of a different opinion, 这是因为他们只看到自己的那一面。“ it is because they only know their side of the question." 所以在这里，你试图去区分 So here, you have an attempt to distinguish 高级和低级的乐趣。 higher from lower pleasures. 因此，是去艺术博物馆，还是呆在沙发上 So going to an art museum or being a couch potato 喝着啤酒，在家看电视。 and swilling beer, watching television at home. 有时候，密尔也认同，我们可能会屈从于诱惑 Sometimes, Mill agrees, we might succumb to the temptation 选择了后者，选择了做电视迷 （呆在沙发上） to do the latter, to be couch potatoes. 但即使在我们出于怠惰而这样做的时候， But even when we do that out of indolence and sloth, 我们知道，我们在博物馆里凝视着Rembrandts的作品时 we know that the pleasure we get gazing at Rembrandts in the museum 那是更高级的乐趣，因为我们已经体验过这两种乐趣 is actually higher because we've experienced both, 看Rembrandts的作品是更高级的享受 and it is a higher pleasure gazing at Rembrandts 因为它运用到了人类更高级的能力。 because it engages our higher human faculties. 密尔是怎样回答有关个人权利的争议的呢？ What about Mill's attempt to reply to the objection about individual rights? 从某种意义上说，他使用了相同的论点， In a way, he uses the same kind of argument, 第五章有讲到。 and this comes out in chapter five. 他说：“我反对任何主张假想出一个 He says, "I dispute the pretensions of any theory which sets up 关于正义的标准，而不是建立在效用的基础上” an imaginary standard of justice not grounded on utility." 尽管如此，他认为正义是建立在效益上 But still, he considers justice grounded on utility to be what he calls 被他称作“是主要的、无可比拟、最神圣的 "the chief part and incomparably, the most sacred 所有道德的约束力” and binding part of all morality." 因此，公正是更高级的，个人权利是优先的， So justice is higher, individual rights are privileged, 这并不是从功利主义的假设引申出来的 but not for reasons that depart from utilitarian assumptions. 正义是一种名义，为了一定的道德准则 Justice is a name, for certain moral requirements, 其中，集体的效益是更高级的 which, regarded collectively, stand higher in the scale 社会利益是更重要的 of social utility and are, therefore, of more paramount 比其他任何义务都高级。 obligation than any others. 因此，正义，它是神圣的。 So justice, it is sacred. 这是先决的。它是优先的。 It's prior. It's privileged. 它不是一件容易兑换的东西 It isn't something that can easily be traded off against lesser things. 但密尔声称，最终都归结于功利主义 But the reason is ultimately, Mill claims, a utilitarian reason 一旦你考虑到人类长远的利益， once you consider the long-run interests of humankind, 我们全人类的进步。 of all of us as progressive beings. 如果我们服从正义，如果我们尊重权利， If we do justice and if we respect rights, 长远来说，整个社会的生活会有所改善 society as a whole will be better off in the long run. 这个观点有说服力吗？或者说，尽管密尔没有表面承认 Well, is that convincing or is Mill actually, without admitting it, 走出了功利主义的论调 stepping outside utilitarian considerations in arguing for 为了区分出更高一级、更神圣的快乐 qualitatively higher pleasures and for sacred 或特别重要的个人权利？ or especially important individual rights? 我们还没有完全解答这个问题，因为要解答这个问题， We haven't fully answered that question because to answer that question, 在权利和正义的情况下， in the case of rights and justice, 要求我们探索其它方法， will require that we explore other ways, 不是用功利主义的方法 non-utilitarian ways of accounting for the basis 然后再看看这些方法是否成功。 of rights and then asking whether they succeed. 至于边沁，他提出了功利主义 As for Jeremy Bentham, who launched utilitarianism 作为一种道德和法律哲学的学说， as a doctrine in moral and legal philosophy, 边沁在1832年去世，享年85岁。 Bentham died in 1832 at the age of 85. 但是如果你去伦敦，你可以今天就去“拜访”他。 But if you go to London, you can visit him today literally. 按着他的意愿，他的尸体还保留着， He provided in his will that his body be preserved, 经过防腐处理，陈列在伦敦大学， embalmed, and displayed in the University of London, 在玻璃柜中，用蜡做的头像 where he still presides in a glass case with a wax head, 穿着当年的衣服。 dressed in his actual clothing. 在他去世前，边沁对待自己 You see, before he died, Bentham addressed himself 跟他的哲学思想是一致的。 to a question consistent with his philosophy. 有什么能让死人活着？ Of what use could a dead man be to the living? 一个方法是，他说，将一个人的尸体 One use, he said, would be to make one's corpse 用来被解剖作研究。 available to the study of anatomy. 但是，对于一位伟大的哲学家，更好的保存方法是 In the case of great philosophers, however, better yet to preserve 留下身躯，勉励世人 one's physical presence in order to inspire future generations of thinkers. 你想看看，边沁是什么样子的吗？ You want to see what Bentham looks like stuffed? 下面是他的模样。 Here is what he looks like. 这就是他 There he is. 如果仔细地观察，你会发现 Now, if you look closely, you will notice that the embalming 他的头部，没有成功防腐 of his actual head was not a success, 所以，人们改用了蜡头像，更为逼真， so they substituted a waxed head and at the bottom, for verisimilitude, 在底部，你可以在一个盘上看到他实际的头像。 you can actually see his actual head on a plate. 你看到了吗？在那儿。 You see it? Right there. 那么，这个故事的道德准则是什么？ So, what's the moral of the story? 这个故事的道德准则，顺带说一下 The moral of the story - and by the way, 在伦敦大学学院，董事会开会时，将他带出去， they bring him out during meetings of the board 他的这份记录 at University College London and the minutes record him 呈上了，但没有表决。 as present but not voting. 这就是一个哲学家的一生 Here is a philosopher in life and in death 一生坚守着自己的哲学原则 who adhered to the principles of his philosophy. 下一次，我们将继续讨论权利。 We'll continue with rights next time. 千万不要错过，网上和其他观众交流的机会 Don't miss the chance to interact online with other viewers of Justice. 一起加入讨论，参加在线的投票 Join the conversation, take a pop quiz, 回看你已经错过了的演讲，从中学习 watch lectures you've missed, and learn a lot more. justiceharvard.org。 It's at justiceharvard.org. It's the right thing to do.
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What's the Right Thing to Do - Lecture 1 The Morality of Murder
这是一门关于什么公正的课程。我们先讲一个故事 This is a course about justice. We begin with a story. 设想你是一位电车司机 Suppose you're the driver of a trolley car 你的电车正已每小时60英里行驶 Your trolley car is hurtling down the track at 60 Mph. 你发现，在车轨的尽头有5位工人在那里干活 At the end of the track, you notice five workers are working on the track. 你想尽办法停下来，但已经停不住了 You try to stop, but you can't 你的手刹不灵了 your brakes don't work
你感到十分绝望，因为你知道 You feel desperate, because you know 如果你撞向这5位工人 if you crash into these five workers 他们必死无疑 they will all die 你很快会就知道 but to soon you know that's for sure 你不知道该怎么办好 so you feel helpless 直到你发现 until you notice, there is 在电轨的尽头，刚好有一条分叉 off to the right, a side track 在电轨的尽头，刚好有一条分叉 at the end of that track 而在那条分叉路上，只有1位工人 There's a worker working on the track 你的方向盘还没有失灵 your steering wheel works 所以你可以选择把电车拐向那条分叉路 so you can turn the trolley car, if you want to, onto the side track 撞向1位工人，但救活了另外那5位 killing the one, but sparing the five 现在我要问第一个问题 Here's our first question? 什么是我们应该什么做？ what's the right thing to do 你会怎么做？ what would you do? 让我们来做一次投票 Let's take a poll 多少人会选择转入拐向那条分叉路 How many would turn the trolley car onto the side track 举起你的手 Raise your hands 有多少人选择一直往前开的？ How many wouldn't? How many would go straight ahead 极少数人会。绝大部份选择了变方向 A handful of people would. A vast majority would turn 让我们先听听。现在我们需要研究你这样做的原因 Let's hear first. Now we need to begin to investigate the reasons why you think 让我们先听听占多数的人 is the right thing to do. Let's begin with those in the majority 有谁选择转向一边岔道的？ Who would turn to go onto the side track 为什么你会这么做？你的原因是什么？ Why would you do it? Would would be your reason? 谁愿意说说你的想法？ Who is willing to volunteer a reason? 如果你可以只撞死一人，那么撞死5人肯定是不对的 Because it cann't be right to kill five people when you could only kill one person instead 如果你可以只撞死一人，那么撞死5人肯定是不对的 it wouldn't be right to kill five if you could only kill one person instead 这是一个很好的理由 That's a good reason 还有谁？是否有人同意这个想法，原因是什么？ Who else? Does anybody agree with that reason? 我认为这和 9/11日事件是同样的道理 I think it's the same reason on the 9/11 我们把那些，把飞机撞向宾夕法尼亚州空地的人，视作英雄 we regard the people who flew the plane into Pennsylvania field as heros 因为他们选择了牺牲飞机上的人，而不是撞向有人的大厦 because they chose to kill the people on the plane, and not kill more people in the building 因此，原则是相同的，虽然都是发生在悲剧的情况下 So the principle there is the same as 9/11 to tragic circumstance 为了5个人能活下来，牺牲一个人 也是值得的 Better to kill one so that five can live 占多数人的你们，也是这样吗想吗？ Is that the reason most of you have those will turn? 现在让我们来听听 那些少数分子 Let's hear now from those in the minority, those wouldn't turn 我认为这跟种族灭族主义、极权主义，是同一个手法 I think that's the same type of mentality that justify genocide and totalitarianism 为了救活一个种族，你就能杀害其他人 in order to save one type of race, you wipe out the other 那么，在这种情况下你会怎么办？ So what would you do in this case? 为了避免 作出像种族灭绝一样的做法 To avoid the horror of genocide 你就宁愿撞向那5个工人 you would crash into the five and kill them 理论上是这样 Presumedly yes 好的。还有谁？这是一个大胆的想法。谢谢您 Ok. Who else? That's a brave answer. Thank you 让我们考虑另外一种情况 Let's consider another trolley car case 看看你们这些占多数的 and see whether those of you in the majority 为什么在这种情况下，你的原则是牺牲一人来救活5人 why would here to the principle, better one should die so that five should live 现在，你不是电车司机，你只是一个旁观者 This time you're not the driver of the trolley car, you're an onlooker 你站在桥上，俯瞰电车的电轨 You're standing on a bridge, overlooking a trolley car track 沿着这个轨道，在尽头有5名工人 down the track come the trolley car. At the end of the track are five workers. 电车的手刹照样不灵了 the brakes don't work 电车快要撞向那5个工人 the trolley car is about to careen into the five and kill them 现在你不是司机 and now you're not the driver 你真的感到无助 you really feel helpless 突然，你看见 站在你旁边 until you notice standing next to you 桥上还是一个非常胖的人 leaning over the bridge is a very fat man 你可以推他一把 and you could give him a shove 他会掉到轨道上 he would fall over the bridge onto the track 刚好能停住那辆电车 right in the way of the trolley car 他会死去，但他能救活其他5个人 he would die but he would spare the five 现在，有多少人会推那个胖子。举起你的手 now how many would push the fat man over the bridge. Raise your hands 有多少不会这么做？大部分人都不会 How many wouldn't? Most people wouldn't 问题显而易见 Here's the obvious question 你每次的选择，原则是什么？ What became of the principle? 牺牲一个，救活更多人 Better to save five lives even if it means to sacrifice one 在第一种情况几乎每个人都赞同，原因何在？ What became of the principle that almost everyone endorse in the first case 我要听听，在两种情况下都是站在大多数的人一边的人 I need to hear from someone who's in the majority in both cases 你如何解释二者之间的区别 How do you explain the differences between the two 在第二种情况下，我认为涉及 选择的问题 The second one I guess involves an act of choice of pushing the person down 那个胖子原本不牵涉到这宗事故里 That person himself would otherwise not have been involved in the situation at at all 我觉得，第二种情况比第一种情况 To choose on his behalf, I guess, involve him in something that 那个胖子可以选择置身其外 he otherwise would escape, I guess, is more than in what you have in the first case 但在第一种情况，司机，两边的工人的已经牵涉到里面 where the three parties, the driver, the two sets of workers are already in the situation 但是，那个在岔道上的家伙 But the guy working on the track off the side 他不会比那个胖子，更想牺牲自己吧？ he didn't choose to sacrifice his life any more than the fat man did, did he? 这是事实。但他在岔道上 That's true. But he's on the track 胖子也是在桥上啊 This guy is on the bridge 你可以继续，也可以待会儿再说 Go ahead. You can come back if you want. 好的。这是个难题。你已经做得很好了 All right. It's a hard question. You did very well 还有谁可以找到能调和的前后两种不同做法的？ Who else can find a way of reconciling the reaction in the majority in these two cases 我想在第一种情况，我们必须在牺牲那1个工人或另外5个之间的选择 I guess, in the first case we have the one worker and the five 我们必须作出的选择 It's choice between those two. And you've to make certain choice 那些工人是死于那驾电车，而不是你的直接行为 people are gonna die because of the trolley car, not necessarily because of your direct action 电车失控了，然后你才闭着你选择 the trolley car is run away and then you're making a split second choice 而推胖子的话，是你自愿的选择 whereas pushing the fat man over is an actualized murder on your part 你有能力选择推还是不推，但你没办法控制的电车不撞向大家 you've control over that whereas you may not control over the trolley car 所以我认为两者略有不同 so I think it's slightly different situation 好的。谁想回应他的想法？这很好。 All right. Who has a reply? That's good. 谁想回应？是否有更好的解释？ Who want to reply? Is there a way out of this? 我不认为这是一个很好的理由` I don't think that's a very good reason` 在这两种情况下，你都是选择杀人 In either way you've to choose you die 因为前者你选择拐向那个岔道上的工人，这是你有意识的行为 because you either choose to turn and kill a person which is an act of conscious thought to turn 后者，你去推胖子也是一种有意的行为 or you choose to push the fat man over which is also an act of conscious action 所以不管怎样，都是有意的行为 so either way you're making a choice 你想回应？ Do you want to reply? 我不是肯定，事实就是这样 I'm not really sure that's the case 这看来是不同的 It's just seem kind of different to act actually 推胖子到电轨上，他会死 pushing someone over on the track and killing him 你是在杀死他 you're actually killing him yourself 你是在亲手杀死他 you're pushing him in your own hands 这有别于把电车转向，然后再撞死其他人 That's different from steering something that's gonna to cause death into other 这好像听起来不对，是吧？ It dosen't really sound right. 这很好。你叫什么名字？ That's good. What's your name? Andrew
让我问你一个问题，Andrew Let me ask you this quesiton, Andrew 假设在桥上，我不用推那个胖子 Suppose standing on the bridge next to the fat man I didn't have to push him 假设他是站在了一个陷阱上，我可以像转方向盘那样打开那个陷阱 suppose he was standing over a trap that I could open by turning a steering wheel like that 不知道为什么，这样做似乎跟不对 So some reasons, that just seems more wrong 我的意思是，也许你不小心推动了那个陷阱的方向盘 I mean maybe if you accidentally like lean into this steering wheel 或者是其他原因，就发生了 there's something like that 又或者，电车阴差阳错地就拐向那条岔道了 or say that the car isn't hurtling towards a switch or drop the track 我可能就认同了 that I could I agree with that 好的。在第一种情况是正确的做法，在第二种情况就变成不对的了 Fair enough. It's still seem wrong in a way it doesn't seem wrong in the first case to turn 而且，在第一种情况下，你直接牵涉到事故 In another way, in the first situation you're involved directly with the situation 在第二个，你是一个旁观者也。 In the second one, you're an onlooker as well. 所以你可以有选择卷入或不去推胖子 So you can have the choice of becoming involved or not by pushing the fat man 让我们暂时搁下这个故事 Let's just forget a moment about this case 让我们想象另外一个的情形 Let's imagine a different case 这时候，你是急诊室的医生，6位病人来找你 This time you're a doctor in a emergency room. Six patients come to you 他们刚刚经历了一场电车交通事故 They've been in a terrible trolley car wrack 其中5人中度受伤，1人重伤 Five of them were moderately injured and one was severely injured 你可以花一整天来照顾那位重伤病人 You could spend all day caring for the one severely injured victim 但这样的话，其他5个会死去 but in that time the five would die 或者你可以先照顾好那5位，再来看那位重伤病人 or you could look after the five restore then to help 但那位重伤病人也会死去 but during that time the severely injured person would die 现在你是医生，有多少人选择先就那5个病人？ How many would save the five? Now is the doctor 又有多少人选择先救那位重伤者 How many would save the one? 极少数人。只有极少数人 Very few people. Just a handful of people 我假设你们的原因跟之前的一样。1条生命对5条 Same reason I assume. One life versus five 现在考虑一种情形。这一次你是外科医生。 Now consider another doctor case. This time you're a transplant surgeon. 你有5名患者。每一个迫切需要 You've five patients. Each in desperate need 器官移植 of an organ transplant in order to survive 其中需要心脏，一个需要肺，一个要肾脏，另一个要肝脏 One needs a heart. One a lung, one a kidney, one a liver 第五个人要胰腺 and the fifth a pancreas 但现在没有可移植的器官。你即将看着他们死去 You've no organ donors. You're about to see them die 你突然发现，在你的隔壁病房 and then it occurs to you that in the next room 有一个健康的家伙，来检查身体 there's a healthy guy who came in for a check up 他正在打瞌睡 He's taking a nap 你可以很安静地走进去， You could go in very quietly, 把那个家伙的5个器官取出来，当然他会死去 yank out the five organs that person would die 但是你可以救活另外那5位病人 but you could save the five 你们有多少人愿意这样做？ How many of you would do it? 还有其他人吗？ Anyone? 把你的手举高 How many? Put your hands up if you'd do it 还有没有人，包括在二楼的 Anyone in the balcony. 我会 I would. 小心，不要摔下来哦 Be careful. Don't lean over 有多少人不会这样做？ How many wouldn't? 好的。你是怎么想的，刚才那位在二楼的同学 All right. What do you say? Speak up in the balcony 我其实是想着有没有其他可能的替代做法 I actually like to explore an slightly alternative possibility 先把那5个病人中最先会死去的人，把他的器官捐出来 that just taking the one of the five who need an organ who dies first using 这样，他健康的器官可以救活其他4位 therefore the healthy organ save the other four 这是一个不错的主意 That's a pretty good idea 可惜，您避开了我们要讨论的哲学观点 except for the fact that you just wrecked the philisophical point 让我们回过头来看这些故事，这些争论 Let's step back from these stories and these arguments 要注意的方式几点 To notice a couple of things about the way 注意我们的争论是围绕那几点展开的 the arguments have begun to unfold 我们的讨论已经涉及到了一些道德的原则 certain moral principles have already begun to emerge 我们的讨论已经涉及到了一些道德的原则 from the discussion we had 让我们回顾一下，有哪些道德原则 Let's consider what those moral principles look like 第一道德原则是， The first moral principle that emerged in the discussion said 正确的做法，符合道德的事 the right thing to do, the moral thing to do 取决于我们行为的后果 depends on the consequences that we resolve from your action 如果在最后，能救活5个，哪怕是牺牲一个也是值得的 At the end of the day, better the five should live even if one must die 这是关注以结果为中心一派，一个很好的例子 That's an example of consequentialist moral reasoning 结果主义的道德推理取决于道德行为的后果 Consequentialist moral reasoning locates morality in the consequences of an act 它取决于我们最后的结果 in the state of the rule that we resolve from the thing you do 但接着，我们考虑了另外一种情况 But then we ran a littlt further, we consider those other cases 在这种情况，人们对结果主义的道德推理原则就不那么坚定了 and people wouldn't so sure about consequentialist moral reasoning 我们在犹豫，例如对于那个站在桥上的胖子 when people hesitate, e.g. the fat man over the bridge 或者是去去掉那位无辜病人的器官 or to yank out the organs of the innocent patient 人们在思考什么是应该做的时候 people gestured toward reasons 会考虑到那个行为的本身 having to with the intrinsic quality of the act itself 而不只是行为的后果 consequence be with they made 人们改变了原意 People were reluctant. 人们觉得这样做是不对的，行为本身是错误的 People thought it's just wrong, categorically wrong 即使是为了拯救更多的生命，杀害无辜的人是不对的 To kill an innocent person, even for the sake of saving five lives 人们认为，在第二种情况下是不对的 at least people thought that in a second version of each story we consider 这是另外一种道德推理的原则 So this point to a secend categorical way of thinking about moral reasoning 绝对主义的道德推理认为，道德有其绝对的道德原则 Categorical moral reasoning locates morality in certain absolute moral requirements 有明确的职责，明确的权利，不论后果是怎样 certain categorical duties and rights, regardless the consequences 我们会在今天和未来几周来讨论 We're gonna to explore in the day and next weeks to come 讨论结果主义和绝对主义的异同 the contrast between Consequentialist and Categorical moral principles 结果主义道德推理最有名的一个例子 the most influential example of consequential moral reasoning 是功利主义，由 边沁 提出 is Utilitarianism, a doctrine invented by Jeremy Bentham， 他是18世纪英国的一位政治哲学家 the 18th century English political philosopher 而最重要的一位绝对主义的哲学家 The most important philosopher of categorically moral reasoning 是18世纪德国哲学家 康德 is the 18th century German philosopher Immanuel Kant 因此，我们来看看这两个不同的道德推理模式 So we'll look at those two different modes of moral reasoning 评价它们，也考虑其他替代的理论 assess them and also consider others 从教学大纲，你会发现我们将会读一些非常著名的书 If you look at the syllabus, you'll notice we read a number of great and famous books 亚里士多德的，洛克，康德，约翰·密尔等人 books by Aristotle,John Locke,Immanuel Kant,John Stuart Mill and others 从教学大纲中，你会看到，我们不只是读这些书 you'll notice too from the syllabus we don't only read these books 我们还讨论当代的政治和法律争议 we also take up contemporary political and legal controversy 讨论它们背后的哲学问题 that raise philosophical questions 我们将辩论 何为平等和不平等 we'll debate equality and inequality 平权行动，言论自由，攻击性言论 affirmative action, free speech vs hate speech 同性婚姻，征兵 same sex marriage, military conscription 一系列实际问题 a range of practical question 为什么？ 因为我们不仅要真实地感受这样抽象、遥远的书籍 Why? Not just to enlive these abstract and distant books 还要认真地讨论 我们日常生活中 一些的议题 but make clear to bring out what's at stake in our daily life 包括我们的政治生活， including our political lives, for philosophy? 所以我们读这些书，我们将讨论这些问题 so we'll read these books and we'll debate these issues 我们将看到，它们之间的联系 and we'll see how each informs and illuminates the others 这听起来很吸引人 This may sound appealing enough 但在这里，我要提醒大家 but here I've to issue a warning 我的提醒是 The warning is this: 阅读这些书 To read these books in this way 作为认识自我的一种训练 as an excise in self knowledge 阅读这些书会有冒险 To read them in this way carries certain risks 个人的，政治上的冒险 Risks that are both personal and political 每一个学政治哲学的学生都知道的风险 Risks that every student of political philosophy has known 这些风险的根源于一个事实 These risks spring from the fact that 哲学会教化我们，扰动让我们 philosophy teaches us and unsettles us 面对在我们已经知道我们 by confronting us with what we already know 有一个讽刺的说法，学习本课程的困难之处 There's an irony. The difficulty of this course 事实上，包括它教的东西，我们已经了解的 consist in a fact that teach us what you've already known 它会把我们都熟视无睹的情景 It works by taking what we know from familiar unquestioned settings 使其不在熟悉 and making it strange 刚才我列举的案例就是例子 That's how those examples work 我们一开始假定的情景 The hypothetical which we began 融合了趣味性和严肃性 with their mix of playfulness and sobriety 它也是这些书籍里，哲学让我们对熟悉的事物 it's also how those phisophical books where philosophy estranges us 变得陌生。它并不是提供新的信息 from the familiar, not by supplying new information 而只是引导着我们用新的方式看这些事物 but by inviting and provoking a new way of seeing 但风险就在这 but here's the risk 一旦熟悉变得陌生，它就会永远和以前不一样了 Once the familiar turns strange, it's never quite the same again 自我认识，就像一个迷了路的人 Self knowledge is like a lost innocent 不管你觉得它多么地扰动你 however unsettling you find it 你就不能不想起和思考这些问题了 you can never be unthought or unknown 是什么让这个探索的过程，显得既困难，但又有趣呢 What makes this and your enterprise difficult but also riveting 因为，道德和政治哲学就像一个故事 is that moral and political philosophy is a story 你不知道的故事将怎么发展下去 and you don't know where the story will lead 但你却知道的，这是关于您的故事 but you do know is that the story is about you 这些是个人的风险。那么政治的风险在哪呢？ Those are the personal risks. Now where're the political risks? 我或许可以这样描述这门课程，它向你承诺 One way of introducing a course like this would be the promise you 通过阅读这些书籍和讨论这些问题 by reading these books and debeting issues 你将会成为一位更负责任的公民 you'll be a more responsible citizen 你会重新审视那些，你过去的观念和公共政策 You'll exam preconceive notion that public policy 你会训练你的政治判断力 you'll hone your political judgement 你会更有效地参与公共事务 you'll become a more effective participant in public affairs 但这会是一个片面的、误导人的承诺 But this would a partial and misleading promise 大部分政治哲学并不是那样的 Political philosophy for the most part hasn't worked that way 学习政治哲学，你将有可能 You've to allow for the possibility 成为一位更坏的公民 that political philosophy may make you a worse citizen 而不是一个更好 rather than a better one 或者，至少在你成为一个好公民之前，让你变成坏公民 or at least a worse citizen before it makes you a better one 那是因为，哲学是一个遥远的事情 And that's because philosophy is a distant thing 甚至是件破坏性的活动 even debilitating activity 这可以追溯到苏格拉底 And you see this going back to Socrates 苏格拉底和他的一个朋友，曾有过这样一个美妙的对话 there's a dialogue the gorgeous in which one of Socrates's friend ## 试图说服放弃哲学 ## tried to talk him out a philosophizing ##告诉苏格拉底，哲学是一个很好的玩偶 ## tells Socrates, "Philosophy is a pretty toy" 如果你只是适度地沉溺其中，并在生命里合适的时候 "if one indulges in it with moderation at the right time of life" 但如果过度地追求 "but if one pursuits it further then one should 它绝对会伤害你 it's abosolutely ruining 听我的劝告把”## 说 "Take my advice" ## says 放弃你的争论。学习那些将会让你有成就的事情 "Abandon argument. Learn the accomplishment of act of life 不要去研究那些，尽说些貌似优美但模棱两可的事情的人们 Take for your models, not those people who spend their time on these petty quibbling 去研究那些生活过得很好，有名气的人们 but those who have good livelihood and reputation and many other blessings ## 是真心地对苏格拉底这样说的 So ## is really saying to Socrates 放弃哲学。去寻找那些真实可见的。又或者进商学院 Quit philosophizing. Get real. Go to business school ## 有一个点确实说得很对 And ## did have a point 哲学确实会让我们疏远 He had a point because philosophy distances us 我们过去的惯例习俗，预定的假设，固有的观念 from conventions, from established assumptions, from settle beliefs 这些都是风险，个人上的和政治上的 Those are the risks, personal and political 而在面对这些风险，我们有一个特别的回避方式 And at the face of these risks there's a characteristic evasion 回避方式叫怀疑主义 The name of the evasion is scepticism 怀疑主义是这样的 It's the idea that goes something like this 我们不会彻底地去解决问题 We didn't resolve once for all 无论是我们一开始讨论过的个案或原则 either the cases or the principles we're arguing when we began 如果亚里士多德，洛克，康德和密尔 And if Aristotle and Locke and Kant and Mill haven't solved these quesitons 经过这些年，都没有解决这些问题 after all of these years 你觉得我们是谁？ 我们坐在这个Sanders剧院里 Who are we to think? That, we here in Sanders Theater 经过一个学期就能解决这些问题 over the course of this semester can resolve them 或许，我们只要每个人还是坚持自己的原则 So maybe it's just a matter of each person having his own principles 我们也不会对别人的原则，有什么好说的 and there's nothing more to say about it 不去进行推理、思考 no way of reasoning 这是在逃避，这是怀疑主义的逃避 That's the evasion, the evasion of scepticism 对你们在座的每位，我提出以下的答复 To each I'd offer the following reply 这些问题确实是已经被辩论过很长时间了 It's true these quesitons have been debated for a very long time 事实上，这些问题和讨论还在重复着 but the very fact that they've recurred and persisted 这可能意味着，在某种意义上，他们不可能的 may suggest though they're impossible in one sense 在另外一种情况下，他们却是不可避免的 they're unavoidable in another 无法避开它们的原因在于 the reason that they're unavoidable, the reason that they're inescapable 是因为我们就生活在这些问题的答案中 is that we live some answer to these questions everyday 因此，怀疑主义只是让你放手， So scepticism just throwing up your hands, and given up by moral reflection 放弃思考道德问题并不是问题的答案 is no solution 康德曾经很好地形容过怀疑主义 Immanuel Kant described very well the problems with scepticism when he wrote 他写道，怀疑主义是人类推理的安息之地 "Scepticism is a resting place for human reasoning 它只是让我们在一些教条之间徘徊 where it can relect on dogmatic wandering 它不是我们最好的安身之处 but it's no dwelling place`for permanent settlement 怀疑主义只是简单地默许，它不足以经受住“鲁莽”的推理 simply to acquiesce, scepticism can't never suffice to overcome the recklessness of reason 我试图提出这些故事，这些论点 I've tried to suggest to these stories and these argument 可能会是一种风险 some sense of risk and temptation of the perils and the possibility 最后，我来总结一下 I'd simply conclude by saying 本课程的目的是唤醒我们鲁莽的推理 The end of this course is to awaken recklessness of reason 然后看看我们最后会走到哪里 and to see where I might lead 谢谢 Thank you very much 上一次我们谈到了几个故事， Last time we started out with some stories 电车司机碰到的一些道德困境 with some moral dilemmas about trolley cars 以及有关医生和几个患者的问题， and about doctors and healthy patients, 这些病人还曾面临着，被拿走器官的危险 vulnerable to be victims of organ transplatation 我们注意到两个争论 we notice two things about the arguments we had 那跟与我们争论的方式有关 one had to do with the way we were arguing 我们一开始讲了一个特殊的案例，并让大家来选择 We began with our judgement and particular case 我们试图阐明它们背后的原因和原则 we tried to articulate the reasons and principles 我们的决策背后的原因 lied behind our judgement 然后又讨论了一个新的情形 and then confronted with a new case 我们发现，我们不得不重新审视我们之前的原则 we found ourselves reexamining those principles 不得不做出些调整，来使我们不会前后矛盾 revising each in the light of the other 我们注意到要看清这些问题并不是那么简单 We notice the build-in pressure to try to bring into enlightenment 我们对具体案件的判断 our judgement about particular cases 我们经过反思之后，最后认同的原则 and the principle we would endorse on relection 我们也注意到这些争论的本质 we also notice something about subtance of the arguments 那些从讨论中引出的争论 that emerged from the discussion 我们注意到，有时候我们觉得判断一个行为十分道德 we notice sometimes we were tempted to locate the morality of an act 取决于行为的后果，而不理会这些行为本身 in the consequences, in the results, in the escape of the rules that brought about 我们把这种称为结果主义的道德推理 We call this consequentialist moral reasoning 但是，我们也注意到在某些情况下 But we also notice in some cases 我们不仅会受行为结果的影响 we weren't swayed only by the results 有时，我们感到不只是后果， sometimes many of us felt not just consequences but also 而且还 行为内在的性质 the intrinsic quality or character of the act matters morally 你们中有些人认为，有些事情是绝对错误的 some people aruged there're certain things that are just categorically wrong 即使他们带来一个好的后果 even if they brings about a good result, 即使是用1条生命换回5条生命 even if they save five people at the cost of one life 因此，我们对比了一下结果主义和绝对主义 so we contrast the consequentialist moral principles with categorical one 在今天和未来几天里，我们将开始思考 Today and in the next few days, we'll begin to examine one of the most influential 结果主义中 最有影响力的一个道德理论 versions of consequentialist moral theory 这就是功利主义哲学 That's the philosophy of Utilitarianism 边沁，18世纪英国政治哲学家 Jeremy Bentham, the 18th century Enligsh pholitical philosopher 首先明确、系统的表达了功利主义道德理论 gave first clear and systematic expression to the Utilitarian moral theory 边沁基本思想 是一个非常简单的 Bentham's idea, his essential idea, is a very simple one 而且听起来就觉得很好道理的 With a lot of morally intuitive appeal 边沁认为 Bentham's idea is the following 凡是能将效用最大化的事，就是正确的、公正的 The right thing, the just thing to to is to maximize utility 效用是什么意思呢？ What do you mean by utility? 效用的意思是，在快乐和痛苦之间找到一个平衡点， He meant by utility the balance of pleasure over pain, 在享乐和受苦之间找到一个平衡点 happiness over suffering 我们通过这样，来得出最大化的效用 Here're how we arrive at the principle of maximizing utility 于是，他开始观察到身边的人，所有的人 He started out by observing that all of us, all human beings 我们都是被两样东西支配着 are governed by two sovereign masters 痛苦和快乐 Pain and pleasure. 我们都喜欢快乐，不喜欢痛苦 We human beings like pleasure and dislike pain 因此，我们的道德就建立在 so we should base morality 我们是否正在考虑，怎样过我们的生活 whether we're thinking about what to do in our own lives 或者 作为一个立法者或公民 or whehter as legislators or citizens 我们正在考虑法律应该是怎样 we're thinking about what the law should be 关于个人的或集体的 the right thing to do individually or collectively 正确的事就是最大限度提高了整体的幸福水平 is to maximize, acting a way that maximizes the overall level of happiness 边沁功利主义有这样一个口号 Bentham Utilitarianism is sometimes summed up in this slogan 为最多数人谋取最大的利益 the greatest good for the greatest number 在这样的功利主义的基本原则下 With this basic principle of Utilitarianism on hand 通过另一种情形，另一个故事，我们开始进行检验 let's begin to test it and to examine it 并研究它 by turning to another case, another story 但这次我们讨论的不是假设的故事，而是一个真正发生的事 but this time, not hypothetical story, a real life story 英国女王与Dudley和Stephens案件 the case of the Queen versus Dudley and Stephens 这是19世纪英国的法律案件， This is 19th century British law case, 许多有名的法学院也辩论过这个案件 that famous and much debated in law school 以下是案件的过程 Here's what happened in the case 我整理了一下故事，我想听听 I summerize the story and I want to hear 你将想像成你是陪审团，你会怎么判决 how you would rule imagining you're the jury 当时的报纸报道，描述了故事的背景 A newspaper account of the time, described the background 这是发生在海上遇难的十分令人痛惜的故事 A sader story of a disaster at sea was never told 关于一艘叫Mignonette的游艇 than that of the surviors of the yacht Mignonette 这艘游艇是在南大西洋，距离海角1.3万英里的地方被发现的 The ship found it in the south Atlantic 13,000 miles from the cape 船上有4名船员。Dudley是船长 There're four in the crew. Dudley was the captain Steven是另外一名船员。Brooks是水手。 Steven was the first mate. Brooks was the sailor. 这些人都是些品行不坏的人，报纸这样描述 All men of excellent character or so, that's the newspaper account tells us 第四组成员是船上侍者，17岁的Parker The fourth group member was the cabin boy, Richard Parker, 17 years old 他是一个孤儿。他没有家庭 He was an orphan. He had no family 这是在他第一次出海远航 And he was on his first long voyage sea 他不听朋友们的劝阻 He went, the news account tells us, 义无反顾地踏上了旅程 rather against the advice of his friends 他去的时候是 充满希望的、年轻人的雄心 He went in the hopefulness of youthful ambition 他以为，这次的旅程将会让他成为一个真正的男人 thinking the journey would make a man of him 遗憾的是，并没有他预想那样 Sadly was not to be 案件的经过并没有什么争议 That fact of the case was not in the dispute 波浪击中了船，后来就坠毁了 A wave hit the ship. It went down 4名船员逃到救生艇 The four crew members escaped to a lifeboat 唯一的食物，是两罐大头菜 The only food they had was two cans of preserved turnip 没有水 No fresh water 前几天，他们什么都没吃 For the first few days, they ate nothing 在第四天，他们打开了一罐大头菜 On the fourth days, they opened of the cans of turnip and ate it. 接着的那天，他们吃了一只龟 The next day, they cutted a turtle 连同其他大头菜 Together with other cans of turnut, 这样他们能勉强地度过了几天 the turtle enabled them to subsist for next few days 第八天，他们什么都没吃。没有食物。没有水 And for eight days, they had nothing. No food. No water 想象一下，在这样的情况下，你会怎么做？ Imagine yourself in this situation like that, what would you do? 以下是他们的做法 Here's what they did 截至目前，船上侍者Parker398 By now, the cabin boy,Parker, 正躺在救生艇的一个角落 is lying at the bottom of the lifeboat in the corner 因为他不听其他人的意见，喝了海水 because he had drunk sea water against the advice of others 他病倒了，他似乎还奄奄一息 He became ill and he appeared to be dying 因此，第19日，Dudley船长提议 So on the 19th day, Dudley the captain suggested 他们都来一次抽签 they should all have a lottery that they should draw a lot 来决定谁先死，以救活其余的人 to see who would die to save the rest Brooks拒绝。他不喜欢抽签这种做法 Brooks refused. He didn't like the lottery idea 我们不知道这是否是 We dont't know whether this was 因为他不想冒这个险 because he didn't like to take the chance 或者是因为他相信，存在着绝对的道德原则 or because he believed in the categorical moral principle 不管怎样，最后没有进行抽签 but in any case, no lots were drawn 接着的那天，还是有看不到任何船舶经过 The next day, there's still no ships in sight 因此Dudley叫Brooks转移目光 So Dudley told Brooks to advert his gaze 他还怂恿了Steven and he motioned to Steven 说，只好牺牲Parker that the boy Parker had better be killed Dudley做了个祷告。他告诉Parker他的日子不多了 Dudley offered a prayer. He told the boy his time had come 他用小刀杀死他，刺伤了他的颈内静脉 and he killed him with a penknife, stabbing him in a jugular vein 尽管良心上反抗着，Brooks享用着Parker对他们的“恩赐” Brooks emerged from his conscientious objection to share in the gruesome bounty 后来的4天，他们3个吃着这位男孩的肉和血 For four days, the three of them fed on the body and blood of the cabin boy 这是真实的故事。最后，他们被获救 True story. And then they're rescued Dudley在他的日记写道 Dudley described their rescue in his diary 他委婉地描述道， With staggering euphemism, quoted on the 24th day 24日 当我们正在吃着我们的早餐时，一艘船出现了 as we were having our breakfast, a ship appeared at last 这三个人被一艘德国船救起 The three survivors were picked up by a German ship 他们被送回英国，接着被逮捕和审判 They were taken back to England where they were arrested and tried Brooks作为公诉方证人 Brooks turned state witness Dudley和Steven被受审 Dudley and Steven went to trial 他们没有否认他们所做的行为 They didn't dispute the facts 他们声称，他们是出于需要 They claimed they acted out of necessity 这就是他们的辩护。他们认为 That was their defense. They argued in a fact 牺牲一人，救活三人是对的 Better that one should die so that three could survive 公诉人反驳了他们的论点 The prosecutor wasn't convince by their argument 他说：“谋杀就是谋杀” He said, "Murder is murder" 因此，该案要继续审判。现在，想像你是陪审团 So the case went to trial. Now imagine you're the jury 为了简化我们的讨论 In just to simplify the discussion 我们先撇开法律问题 Put asside the question of the law 现在假设你是陪审团 Let's assume that you're the jury 我们要决定，他们的行为，在道义上是不是允许的 Our charge is deciding whether what they did was morally permissible or not 多少人会投无罪释放，认为他们所做是道德上容许的 How many would vote not guilty that what they did was morally permissible 有多少投 有罪，认为他们所做的一切在道义上是错误的 And how many would vote guilty that what they did was morally wrong 大部分人都偏向了一方 A pretty size of majority 让我们看看大家的原因 Let's see what people's reasons are 让我先听听那些少数派 Let me begin with those who are in the minority 让我们来听听来自辩护方的意见 Let's hear first from the defense 为什么你会在道义上赦免他们呢？你有什么原因？ Why would you morally exonerate them? What are your reasons? 我认为，在道德上，他们虽然应该受到谴责 I think it's morally reprehensible 但道德上应受谴责和 but there's a distingtion between morally reprehensible and 是否要负法律责任是有区别的 what makes some legally accountable 换言之，就像法官说的， In other words, as the judge said, 道德上不允许的，并不一定就是违法的 what was always moral isn't necessarily against the law 我不认为，说这也是情非得已就为盗窃、谋杀或任何非法行为来辩护 I don't think necessity justifies theft and murder or any illegal act 在某些时候，环境让你不得不这样做 At some point, you're degree of necessity does in effect 却是能为你开罪 exonerate you from any guilt 很好。其他的辩护有没有什么想说 OK. Good. Other defenders. Other voices for the defense 在道义上，解释他们所做的 Moral justification for what they did 我只是觉得，这是在绝望的情况下 I just feel like in this situation of desperate 你不得不做你需要做的，为了生存下来 You've to do you've to do to survive` 你不得不做你需要做的，为了生存下来。 You've to do you've to do. Pretty much 如果你已经19天没食物吃 If you've been going 19 days without any food 有人就必须牺牲，来救其他人 Someone just has to take the sacrifice and people can survive 而且，再说了，他们存活下来之后 Furthurmore, from that, let say they survive 他们可能会为社会作出贡献成员 and they become productive members of a society 他们回家之后，可能建立一个百万富翁慈善机构 who go home and start a millionaire charity organization 然后他们使所有人受益 and then they benefit everybody 我的意思是，我不知道他们之后会怎样 I mean I don't know they did afterward. 他们可能也会杀死更多的人 They might kill more people, whatever 如果他们回家了，变成一个刺客呢？ What if they went home and turned out to be a assassin 你是那个知道他们是刺客的人 You're the one who know they assassinate 是的 That's fair 好的。很好。你叫什么名字？ All right. That's good. What's your name? Markies
我们听完辩护的。 We've heard the defense. Couple voices from the defense 现在，我们需要听听控方 Now we need to hear from the prosecution 大多数人认为他们的做法是错误的。为什么？ Most people think what they did was wrong. Why? 第一，我的想法是 One of the first thing that I was thinking was 他们已经很久没吃过东西了 they haven't been eating for a long time 这影响到他们的心智 they're mentally, like affected and so 这样也许就能为他们的行为辩护 so then that could be used as a defense possible argument 他们的精神状态不佳 they were not in a proper state of mind 他们当时所做的决定，可能是他们不想的 they weren't making decision they might otherwise they made 如果这是一个吸引人的论点 If that's a appealing argument 你的心理状态发生了改变，于是做出这样的行为 you've to be altered mindset to do something like that 这可能是个挺有说服力的论点 suggest that people who find that argument convincing 持这种观点的人可能会认为他们的行为是不道德的 do think they're acting immorally 但我只想知道你的想法 But I just want to know what you think 我不认为他们的行为，在道德上是正确的 I don't think they act in a morally appropriate way 为什么呢？ Why not? What do you say, here's Markies 刚才 Markies就替他们辩护过了 He just defended them 他说，你必须这样做，在这样的情况下 He said, You've got to do what you've got to do in a case like that 面对Markies你会怎么说？ What do you say to Markies? 无论在什么环境下，人们也不能够 There's no situation that would allow human beings to take 把其他人的生命掌控在自己手中 the idea of fate, or the other people's lives in their own hands 我们没有这种权力 We don't have that kind of power 好的。谢谢您。你叫什么名字？ Ok. Thank you. What's your name? Redd
还有谁？你是怎么想的？ Who else? What do you say? 我想知道，如果Dudley和Steven在Richard奄奄一息时 I'm wondering if Dudley and Steven had asked for Richard's consent in dying 得到了他的同意，是否可以赦免他们的谋杀行为 would that exonerate them from an act of murder 如果在这种情形下，它在道义上是合理的 If so, there's still morally justifiable 很有趣。你叫什么名字？ That's interesting. Consent. What's your name? Catharine
Catharine，假设现在的情形就像刚才说描述的 Catharine, suppose they've acted what they're now they look like 现在，Duley在那里，拿着一把小刀 So in this story, Duley is there. Penknife in hand 不同的是，在Dudley为Parker死前祷告之前 But instead of the prayer or before the prayer 他说，Parker，你介意 He said,Parker would you mind 我们极度的饥饿 We're desperately hungry Parker感同身受 As Parker empathized 我们极度饥饿。你不能活多久了 We're desperately hungry. You're not gonna to last long anyhow 我可以做一回杀手吗？Parker你认为如何？ Would you be a murder? How about it Parker? 你觉得呢？现在是否符合道义呢？ What do you think? Would it be morally justified then? 假设Parker一半争着他那昏迷的眼睛，说好吧 Suppose Parker in his semi-stupor eyes, said Ok 我不认为这在道德上是合理的 I don't think it would be morally justifiable 即使这样也不是 Even then it wouldn't be 不是 No 你觉得即使取得对方同意，在道义上还是不合理 You don't think even with consent it would be morally justified 有没有人谁想接着Catharine说下去呢？ Are there people who want to take up Catharine's consent idea? 有谁认为这样做是符合道德的 And who think they would make it morally justified 举高你的手，如果你是这样认为 Raise your hand if you think it would 非常有趣。 That's very interesting. 为什么会取得对方同意，就会产生这样的区别？ Why would consent make a moral difference? 我认为，如果一开始是Parker提出这样的做法的 I think if he's just making his original idea 而且也是他提出来的 and it's his idea to start with 这将是唯一的情况，我能接受的 that would be the only situation in which 这将是唯一的情况，我能接受的 I see it being appropriate anyway 因为这样，你就不能说 because that way you couldn't make the argument that 是大家逼他这样说的，因为是3比1 he was pressured, three to one 如果是他作出决定，牺牲自己的生命 If he's making the decision to give his life Dudley他们只是充当了中间人 and he took on the agency to sacrifice himself 有些人可能会觉得Parker的奉献精神是值得称赞的 which somebody would see it as admiralbe 其他人可能不同意 other people might disagree with that decision 因此，如果他想出这个主意 So if he came up with the idea 这是唯一情况，我们肯定它是符合道德的 That's the only kind of consent we could have confidence in morally 那么就行了。 Then it would be OK. 否则，其他情形都视作是胁迫的情况 Otherwise, it would kind of coerce consent under the circumstance 有谁以为，即使取得Parker同意 If there anyone who thinks that even the consent of Parker 也不能为他们开罪，谁是这样认为？ would not justify their killing him. Who thinks that? 我认为，Parker是带着一种希望死去的 I think Parker would be killed with the hope that 他心中是想着，其他船员将会获救 the other crew members would be rescued 所以你没有明确的原因，应该牺牲他 so there're no definite reason that he should be killed 因为你不知道他们什么时候会被救 because you don't know when they're gonna to be rescued 所以，如果你杀了他。你是在谋杀 So if you kill him. It's killing human beings 你是否要一直杀死其他船员，直到你们被救 Do you keep killing the crew members until you're rescued 但是，这里，我们的道德逻辑似乎是， But the moral logic of this situation seems to be that 他们将继续 杀死那个最弱的，也许 they would keep on picking off the weakest, maybe 一个接一个，直到获救。 one by one,until they were rescued. 幸运的是，在这种情况下， And in this case, luckily, 他们最终被救出时，其他3人还活着 they were rescued when three were still alive 如果Parker同意了，你觉得就可以这样做呢呢？ If Parker did give his consent, would it be all right, do you think? 我不觉得 No 告诉我们，为什么你为什么不同意 Tell us why it wouldn't be all right 首先，人吃人，我相信在道德上是不正确的 First of all, cannibalism I believe is morally incorrect 因此我们反对人吃人 so shouldn't eating human anyway 因此，人吃人在道义上令人反感 551 So cannibalism is morally objectionable 因此，即使在这种情况下，等着有人死去 So even in this scenario, waiting until someone die 你仍然会反对这样做 still would be objectionable 是。我觉得，这一切都取决于一个人的道德原则 Yes. I feel like it all depends on one's personal morals 这只是我的意见。 This is just my opinion. 当然，其他人可能会不同意 Of course, other people are gonna to disagree 让我们看看你的分歧是什么，然后我们将看看 Let's see what the disagreements are and then we'll see 如果他们有足够的理由，可以说服你 if they've reason that can persuade you enough 我们来试一下 Let's try that 有没有谁能解释？ Is there someone who can explain? 你们谁是赞成这样做的 Those of you who're tempted by consent 你能解释为什么取得同意会带来这些道德上的区别？ Can you explain why consent makes such a moral difference? 再想想抽签？抽签是否能视作是一种同意？ What about the lottery idea? Does that count as consent? 还记得一开始，Dudley提出了抽签的做法 Remember the beginning, Dudley proposed a lottery 假设他们已经同意了抽签 Suppose they've agreed to a lottery 那么有多少便认为这是可以合理的？ Then how many would then say it's all right? 假设抽签之后决定，要牺牲那个客舱的男孩 Suppose there's a lottery. Cabin boy lost 那么，故事还是原来那样发展下去 Then the rest of the story unfolded 那么有多少人会说这是道德上容许的？ Then how many people would say it's morally permissible? 因此，如果由抽签决定的，更多人就会赞成， So the number is arising if we've lottery 让我们听到你们中的一个，
对他们来说，抽签会产生这样的区别 for whom the lottery would make such a moral difference Let's hear from one of you, 为什么会这样？ Why would it? 我认为，考虑是否是犯罪，一个是必不可少的因素 I think the essential element that makes a crime 是在他们自己在私底下做决定 is the idea that they decide at some point 认为他们的生命比他的生命更重要 their lives are more important than his 我的意思是对任何罪行为的基础是 I mean that's the basis for any crime 觉得，我的需要、我的愿望比你的更重要 My needs, my desire are more important than yours 如果他们已经做了抽签，每个人都同意 If they've done a lottery where everyone consented 有人必须要牺牲 that someone should die 这就像是偶然性让他牺牲了来救活其他人 It's like the odds sacrifices himself to save the rest 这样就变成可以接受的 Then it would be all right 听起来有点怪，但在道义上允许的 A little grotesque but morally permissible 你叫什么名字？ What's your name? Matt
那么困扰你的，不是人吃人 So what bother you is not the cannibalism 而是缺乏应有的程序 but the lack of due process 我想你可以这么说， I guess you could say that 有谁同意用Matt的观点，再补充一点 Can someone who agrees with Matt say a little bit more 为什么抽签使得这变成是道德允许的 about why a lottery would make it morally permissible 我的理解是， The way I understood it originally was that 整体的问题是 that's a whole issue 就是从来没有征询那个男孩的意见 The cabin boy was never consulted it about 不论将会有什么事情发生在他身上 whether or not something was gonna to happen to him 即使原来抽签 even with the originally lottery 他是否会参与了其中 whether or not he would be part of that 大家就这样决定了，他就是那个要牺牲的 It was just decided that he was the one who's gonna to die 现实情况就是这样的况 That's what happened in the actual case 但是，如果有抽奖，他们同意了这个程序 But if there's a lottery, and they agree to the procedure 你认为这是合理的 you think that would be OK 是的。因为每个人都知道有人将会死去 Right. Because everyone know there's gonna to be a death 但那个男孩不知道 whereas the cabin boy didn't know 大家就这样决定了 the discussion was even happening 提前没有让他知道 There's no fore warning for him to know that 他就是那个可能会死亡的 I may be the one that's dying 好的。假设每个人都同意的抽签 All right. Suppose everyone agrees to the lottery 他们已经抽签。那个男孩抽中那个签 They've the lottery. The cabin boy lose it 他改变了主意 And he changes his mind 但您已经决定。这就像一个口头合同 You've already decided. It's like a verbal contract 你不能改回去了 You cann't go back on that 你已经决定了 You decided. The decision was made 如果你知道你将为他人死去 If you know you're dying 如果你知道你将为他人死去 for the reason for others to live 如果是其他人死去 if someone else have died 你知道你会吃他们的肉 you know you would consume them 好的。然后，我知道，但我输了 Right. Then he could take, I know, but I lost 我只是认为，整个道德问题在于 I just think that's the whole moral issue 有没有征询那个男孩 there's no consulting of the cabin boy 最可怕的就是， That's what make it the most horrible is that 他不知道，将会发生什么事 he had no idea what was even going on 如果他知道这是怎么回事 If he known what's going on 就变得更容易接受了 it would be more understandable 好的。现在我想听听 All right. Good. Now I want to hear 所以，有些人认为这是道德上允许的 so there're some who think it's morally permissible 但只有约20％，Markies是其代表 but only about 20%, led by Markies 还有一些说 Then there're some who say, 真正的问题是缺乏获得他人同意 the real problem here is lack of consent 是否抽签决定，是否经过一个公平的程序， whether the lack of consent to a lottery, to a fair procedure, 或者像Catharine所说在他死的那一刻没有征询同意 or Catharine's idea lack of consent at the moment of death 如果多了同意，更多的人会赞成 and if we add consent then more people are willing 牺牲他人的生命在道德上是允许的 to consider the sacrifice morally justified 最后，我想听听 I want to hear now finally 那些认为，即使获得了同意 from those of you who think even with consent 即使有抽签， even with a lottery, 即使Parker最后同意了 even with a final murmur of consent by Parker 在最后一刻 at the very last moment 它仍然是错误的 it would still be wrong 而且为什么是错误的？这就是我想听到 And why would it be wrong? That's what I wanna to hear 由始至终，我一直倾向于 The whole time I've been leaning towards 绝对主义的道德推理 the categorical moral reasoning 我认为有一个可能我会同意 I think that there're a possibility I'll be OK 那就是抽签的做法 with the idea of lottery 中签的人只是自己杀死自己 and the loser taking into his own hands to kill themselves 这样就不算是谋杀行为 so they won't be an act of murder 但我仍然认为，即使这样，它还算是被迫的 but I still think that even that way it's coerce 此外，我不认为Dudley的日记里带有悔改之意 Also I don't think there's any remorse in Dudley's diary “我们正在吃我们的早餐” We're eating our breakfast 看起来，他只是 It seems that he just reflected the whole idea of 他不珍惜他人生命的一个反映 not valuing someone else life 这让我觉得我必须采纳绝对主义 That makes me be feel like I have to take the categorical 你想，把我们的教科书扔给他看看 You want to throw the book at him 当他在放松时还要想着道德 When he relaxed with morals 反思自己是否做了错事 and sense of having done anything wrong 是的 Right 好的。有没有人要辩护 So. All right. Any other defenders 谁认为这是错误的，绝对的错误，无论是否征得同意 who said it's categorically wrong whether it's without consent 我们的社会说：“谋杀就是谋杀” The society say, "Murder is murder" 以各种方式谋杀 Murder is murder in every way 在我看来，大家好像觉得这和其他谋杀是不一样 In our sight, it looks as a murder don't in the same way 我认为，谋杀在任何情况下都没有任何差别 I don't think any difference in any case 让我问你一个问题 Let me ask you a question 3比1，3个危在旦夕的人呢 There were three lives at stake versus one 对 一个船上侍者，一个男孩。 The one the cabin boy. 他没有家庭。他没有亲人 He had no family. He had no dependents 其他3人在英国有他们的家庭 These other three had families back home in England 他们的家人。他们有妻子和子女 They had dependents. They've wives and children 回想一下 边沁 Think back the Bentham 边沁说，我们要考虑福利， Bentham said we'd to consider the welfare, 最大的效用，大家的福祉 the utility, the happiness of everybody 我们如果把所有因素考虑进去 We've add it all up 它不是仅仅数三对一 So it's not just numbers of three against one 这还包括在家里的所有人 It's also all of those people at home 事实上，那时伦敦报纸 In fact, the London newspaper at the Time 和大众的意见也同情他们，Dudley和Steven and popular opinions sympathize with them, Dudley and Steven 而报纸��，如果他们不是 And the paper said if they won't motivated 因为牵挂这他们家里的爱人 by affection and concern for their loved one at home 和他们的家人，他们当然不会这样做 and their dependents, surely they wouldn't have done this 那些角落里的人，和其他人有什么区别吗？ How's there any difference from people on the corner 我看不出什么差别 I don't see any difference 我认为在任何情况下，如果我杀了你来提高自己 I think in any case if I murder you to advance my status 这就是谋杀。 That is murder. 我认为，我们应该用同样的目光看他们 I think we should look at them in the same light 是否就能允许某些犯罪活动 Is that criminal allows certain activities 作出某些不道德的暴力和野蛮行为 and makes certain things immoral violent and savage 在同一案件时，都是同样的行为 When in the same case, it's all the same act 如果一位凶手为了养活他的家人就可以去杀人 If mentality that goes in the murder, the assassin need to feed his family 假设现在是不是3个。假设现在是30 Suppose it weren't three. Suppose it were thirty 300 Three hundred 一个生命来拯救300 One life to save three hundred 或者是战时，3000 or in war time, three thousand 假设是更大的比数 Suppose the stakes was even bigger 我认为，这是同一件事 I think it's the same deal 那么你认为 边沁是错误的。 You think Bentham is wrong. 正确的做法就是增加了集体的幸福 To say the right thing to do is to add up the collectively happiness 你认为 他的想法是错误的 You think it's wrong about that 我不认为这是错的 I don't think it's wrong 我认为谋杀是在任何情况下都是谋杀 I think murder is murder in any case 如果是这样，边沁就是错的 If then, Bentham has to be wrong 如果你是对的，他就是错的 If you're right, he's wrong 好吧，他错了 OK, he's wrong 谢谢你。你做得很好 Thank you. Well done 好的。让我们暂时先不讨论下去 All right. Let's step back from this discussion 看看，我们已经听了多少种反对的意见 and notice how many objections have we heard to what they did 我们听到一些人为他们辩护 We heard some defense of what they did 他们辩护这是在严峻的情况下的不情之举 The defense had to do with necessity, the dire circumstances 他们辩护这是在严峻的情况下的不情之举 and implicitly as least 此外，人数也会影响我们的决定 the idea that number matters 不仅数量问题，而且这些人所牵涉的影响也是个问题 And not only number matters, but the wider effect matters 他们的家庭。他们的家人 Their family back home. Their dependents Parker是个孤儿。没有人会想念他 Parker is an orphan. No one would miss him 所以，如果你这样算起来， So if you add up, 如果您尝试计算幸福和痛苦的平衡点 if you try to calculate the balance of happiness and suffering 你可能认为，他们是正确的 you might have a case for saying what they did it's the right thing 然后，我们听到了至少有三个不同类型的反对意见 Then we heard at least three different types of objections 我们听到有人反对说 We've heard objection that said 他们的所作所为是绝对的错误 What they did is categorically wrong 谋杀就是谋杀。 Murder is murder. 它永远是错的，哪怕它能增加社会的所有幸福 It's always wrong even if it increases your all happiness of society 无条件的反对 A categorical objection 但是，我们仍然需要研究，为什么谋杀就是绝对的不对？ But we still need to investigate why murder is categorically wrong? 是否是因为即使是那个男孩也有他基本的权利？ Is is because even cabin boy had certain fundermental rights? 如果是这样，这些权利来自哪里？ If that's the reason, where those rights come from? 这些权利如果不是来自追求最大的效用或快乐 If not from some ideas of larger welfare or utility or happiness 这是第一个问题 Question #1 其他人表示，是否抽签会产生差别 Other said a lottery will makes a difference 或者是像Matt说的，一个公平的程序， A fair procedure, Matt said 这样，有些人开始动摇 And some people were swayed by that 这就不符合绝对主义 That's not a categorical objection exactly 它说，每个人都被视为平等的 It's saying everybody has to be counted as an equal 即使在一天结束的时候 even though at the end of the day 牺牲一个人，换取大众的福利 one can be sacrificed for the general welfare 我还有另一个问题，我们要研究 That leaves us with another question to investigate 为什么同意以一定的程序，公平的程序 Why does agreement to a certain procedure, even a fair procedure 就可以为他们的行为辩护 justify whatever result flows from the operation of that procedure 这是第二个问题 Question #2 问题3 关于同意的基本思想 And Question #3：the basic idea of consent. Catharine带我们想到了这一点 Catharine got us on to this 如果安格男孩自己同意 If the cabin boy had agreed himself, 而不是在他休息的时候，杀死他 and not under the rest as was acted 那么我们就可以牺牲他的生命来救活其他人了 then it would be all right to take his life to save the rest 更多的人偏向了这一想法 Even more people side on that idea 但是，这引出第三个哲学问题 But that raise a third philosophical question 在道德的层面上，同意为什么会带来不同？ What is the moral work that the consent does? 为什么一个同意的行为，产生这些道德上的区别？ Why does an act of consent makes such a moral difference? 不经过同意就杀死一个人是不对的 that an act that would be wrong taking a life without consent 但，经过同意后杀死一个人就变成是允许的 is morally permissible with consent 为了思考这三个问题， To investigate those three questions, 我们将会阅读某些哲学家的作品 we're gonna to read some philoshophers 从下次开始，我们还将要阅读边沁和约翰 密尔的作品 and starting next time, we're gonna to read Bentham and John Mill 这些功利主义哲学家 Utilitarian philosophers 想听下一节课，并参与讨论 www.justiceharvard.org
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The Twilight Zone
The Twilight Zone 阴阳魔界是我非常喜欢的一部系列剧集， 每集一个故事，每个蕴含深刻哲理，值得人们细细品味。
TV Series 1959-1964
http://rarbgmirror.org/tv/tt0052520/
TV Series 2019-2020
http://rarbgmirror.org/tv/tt2583620/
Season 1（1959-10-02~1960-07-01）
Episode 1 Where Is Everybody?
Episode 2 One for the Angels
Episode 3 Mr. Denton on Doomsday
Episode 4 The Sixteen-Millimeter Shrine
Episode 5 Walking Distance
Episode 6 Escape Clause
Episode 7 The Lonely
Episode 8 Time Enough at Last
Episode 9 Perchance to Dream
Episode 10 Judgment Night
Episode 11 And When the Sky Was Opened
Episode 12 What You Need
Episode 13 The Four of Us Are Dying
Episode 14 Third from the Sun
Episode 15 I Shot an Arrow into the Air
Episode 16 The Hitch-Hiker
Episode 17 The Fever
Episode 18 The Last Flight
Episode 19 The Purple Testament
Episode 20 Elegy
Episode 21 Mirror Image
Episode 22 The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street
Episode 23 A World of Difference
Episode 24 Long Live Walter Jameson
Episode 25 People Are Alike All Over
Episode 26 Execution
Episode 27 The Big Tall Wish
Episode 28 A Nice Place to Visit
Episode 29 Nightmare as a Child
Episode 30 A Stop at Willoughby
Episode 31 The Chaser
Episode 32 A Passage for Trumpet
Episode 33 Mr. Bevis
Episode 34 The After Hours
Episode 35 The Mighty Casey
Episode 36 A World of His Own
Season 2（1960-09-30~1961-06-02）
Episode 1 King Nine Will Not Return
Episode 2 The Man in the Bottle
Episode 3 Nervous Man in a Four Dollar Room
Episode 4 A Thing About Machines
Episode 5 The Howling Man
Episode 6 The Eye of the Beholder
Episode 7 Nick of Time
Episode 8 The Lateness of the Hour
Episode 9 The Trouble with Templeton
Episode 10 A Most Unusual Camera
Episode 11 The Night of the Meek
Episode 12 Dust
Episode 13 Back There
Episode 14 The Whole Truth
Episode 15 The Invaders
Episode 16 A Penny for Your Thoughts
Episode 17 Twenty Two
Episode 18 The Odyssey of Flight 33
Episode 19 Mr. Dingle, the Strong
Episode 20 Static
Episode 21 The Prime Mover
Episode 22 Long Distance Call
Episode 23 A Hundred Yards Over the Rim
Episode 24 The Rip Van Winkle Caper
Episode 25 The Silence
Episode 26 Shadow Play
Episode 27 The Mind and the Matter
Episode 28 Will the Real Martian Please Stand Up?
Episode 29 The Obsolete Man
Season 3（1961-09-15~1962-06-01）
Episode 1 Two
Episode 2 The Arrival
Episode 3 The Shelter
Episode 4 The Passersby
Episode 5 A Game of Pool
Episode 6 The Mirror
Episode 7 The Grave
Episode 8 It's a Good Life
Episode 9 Deaths-Head Revisited
Episode 10 The Midnight Sun
Episode 11 Still Valley
Episode 12 The Jungle
Episode 13 Once Upon a Time
Episode 14 Five Characters in Search of an Exit
Episode 15 A Quality of Mercy
Episode 16 Nothing in the Dark
Episode 17 One More Pallbearer
Episode 18 Dead Man's Shoes
Episode 19 The Hunt
Episode 20 Showdown with Rance McGrew
Episode 21 Kick the Can
Episode 22 A Piano in the House
Episode 23 The Last Rites of Jeff Myrtlebank
Episode 24 To Serve Man
Episode 25 The Fugitive
Episode 26 Little Girl Lost
Episode 27 Person or Persons Unknown
Episode 28 The Little People
Episode 29 Four O'Clock
Episode 30 Hocus Pocus and Frisby
Episode 31 The Trade-Ins
Episode 32 The Gift
Episode 33 The Dummy
Episode 34 Young Man's Fancy
Episode 35 I Sing the Body Electric
Episode 36 Cavender is Coming
Episode 37 The Changing of the Guard
Season 4（1963-01-03~1963-05-23）
Episode 1 In His Image
Episode 2 The Thirty-Fathom Grave
Episode 3 Valley of the Shadow
Episode 4 He's Alive
Episode 5 Mute
Episode 6 Death Ship
Episode 7 Jess-Belle
Episode 8 Miniature
Episode 9 Printer's Devil
Episode 10 No Time Like the Past
Episode 11 The Parallel
Episode 12 I Dream of Genie
Episode 13 The New Exhibit
Episode 14 Of Late I Think of Cliffordville
Episode 15 The Incredible World of Horace Ford
Episode 16 On Thursday We Leave For Home
Episode 17 Passage on the Lady Anne
Episode 18 The Bard
Season 5（1963-09-27~1964-06-19）
Episode 1 In Praise of Pip
Episode 2 Steel
Episode 3 Nightmare at 20,000 Feet
Episode 4 A Kind of a Stopwatch
Episode 5 The Last Night of a Jockey
Episode 6 Living Doll
Episode 7 The Old Man in the Cave
Episode 8 Uncle Simon
Episode 9 Probe 7, Over and Out
Episode 10 The 7th is Made Up of Phantoms
Episode 11 A Short Drink from a Certain Fountain
Episode 12 Ninety Years Without Slumbering
Episode 13 Ring-A-Ding Girl
Episode 14 You Drive
Episode 15 The Long Morrow
Episode 16 The Self-Improvement of Salvadore Ross
Episode 17 Number 12 Looks Just Like You
Episode 18 Black Leather Jackets
Episode 19 Night Call
Episode 20 From Agnes - with Love
Episode 21 Spur of the Moment
Episode 22 An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge
Episode 23 Queen of the Nile
Episode 24 What's in the Box
Episode 25 The Masks
Episode 26 I Am the Night - Color Me Black
Episode 27 Sounds and Silences
Episode 28 Caesar and Me
Episode 29 The Jeopardy Room
Episode 30 Stopover in a Quiet Town
Episode 31 The Encounter
Episode 32 Mr. Garrity and the Graves
Episode 33 The Brain Center at Whipple's
Episode 34 Come Wander with Me
Episode 35 The Fear
Episode 36 The Bewitchin' Pool
Season 1（2019-04-01~2019-05-30）
Episode 1 The Comedian
Episode 2 Nightmare at 30,000 Feet
Episode 3 Replay
Episode 4 A Traveler
Episode 5 The Wunderkind
Episode 6 Six Degrees of Freedom
Episode 7 Not All Men
Episode 8 Point of Origin
Episode 9 The Blue Scorpion
Episode 10 Blurryman
Season 2（2020-06-25）
Episode 1 Meet in the Middle
Episode 2 Downtime
Episode 3 The Who of You
Episode 4 Ovation
Episode 5 Among the Untrodden
Episode 6 8
Episode 7 A Human Face
Episode 8 A Small Town
Episode 9 Try, Try
Episode 10 You Might Also Like
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How It’s Made Index（Dream cars）
How It’s Made是由 Discovery Channel 制作一款王牌节目，又被翻译为制造的原理或造物小百科， 本片从2001年推出至今，涵盖了几乎所有的制造技术 ，非常适合机械专业和对此感兴趣的同学。希望大家享受这趟制造的艺术之旅！
Season 01 - 2013
1. Morgan Aero Coupe 摩根（英国）
2. Porsche 911 保时捷（德国大众旗下）
3. Ferrari FF 法拉利（ 意大利 ）
4. Audi R8 奥迪 （德国大众旗下）
5. Rolls-Royce Phantom 劳斯莱斯幻影（英国）
6. Maserati Quattroporte 玛莎拉蒂（意大利）
7. Weismann MF5 威兹曼（德国）
8. Lamborghini Aventador 兰博基尼（意大利）
9. Jaguar F-Type 捷豹（英国）
10. Bentley Continental GT Speed 宾利（英国）
Season 02 - 2014
1. Bugatti Veyron 布加迪（法国）
2. Pagani Huayra 帕加尼（意大利）
3. Alpha Romeo 4C 阿尔法.罗密欧（意大利）
4. Carterham Seven 凯特汉姆（英国莲花旗下品牌）
5. Morgan 3-Wheeler 摩根（英国）
6. Ginetta G40 吉内塔（英国）
7. Lucra LC470 拉卡拉（美国）
8. Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 雪佛兰科尔维特（美国通用旗下品牌）
9. KTM X-Bow KTM（奥地利）
10. Tesla Model S 特斯拉（美国）
11. Superformance MKIII 眼镜蛇（美国福特旗下品牌）
12. Koenigsegg One: 1 柯尼赛格（瑞典）
Season 03 - 2015
1. Superformance GT 40 眼镜蛇（美国福特旗下品牌）
2. Porsche 918 Spyder 保时捷（德国大众旗下）
3. Aston Martin Vanquish 阿斯顿·马丁（英国）
4. Zenvo ST1 Zenvo（丹麦）
5. BMW i8 宝马（德国）
6. McLaren 650S 迈凯伦（英国）
7. Falcon F7 猎鹰（美国）
8. Lotus Evora 莲花（英国）
Season 04 - 2016
1. Bentley Mulssanne 宾利慕尚（英国）
2. Chevrolet Camaro 雪佛兰科迈罗（美国）
3. Porsche Panamera 保时捷（德国大众旗下）
4. Peugeot RCZ R 标致（法国）
5. Ariel Atom 3S Ariel（英国）
6. Audi S8 奥迪 （德国大众旗下）
Season 05 - 2016
1. Ultima Evolution Ultima（英国）
2. Ferrari California T 法拉利（ 意大利 ）
3. Jaguar XF 捷豹（英国）
4. Rolls-Royce Dawn 劳斯莱斯（英国）
5. BMW M6 宝马（德国）
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How It’s Made Index（S31~S32）
How It’s Made是由 Discovery Channel 制作一款王牌节目，又被翻译为制造的原理或造物小百科， 本片从2001年推出至今，涵盖了几乎所有的制造技术 ，非常适合机械专业和对此感兴趣的同学。希望大家享受这趟制造的艺术之旅！
第三十一季推出时间为2018-05-05至2018-11-03
S31E01 Basque Pelota Balls, Pallet Trucks, Dumplings, Brass Faucets. 巴斯克回力球 、托盘车、饺子、黄铜水龙头
S31E02 Laptops; Panettone; Saxophones. 笔记本电脑；节日糕点；萨克斯
本集看点：笔记本电脑的手工组装制程；
S31E03 Spinning Reels; Plasma Protein Therapies; 3D Cups; Stainless Steel Beer Kegs. 旋转卷轴；血浆蛋白疗法；3D 杯子；不锈钢啤酒桶
S31E04 Steamer Baskets; Three-Wheel Scooters; Prefabricated Conservatories; Copper Cookware. 蒸笼； 三轮滑板车； 预制温室；铜炊具
S31E05 Mountain Bike Tires; Leaf and Debris Vacuums; Canned Meat; Fillet Knives. 山地自行车轮胎； 树叶和碎片吸尘器； 肉罐头； 圆角刀
S31E06 Rice Cookers; Concealment Furniture; Promotional Origami; Hedge Shears. 电饭煲； 隐藏式家具； 促销折纸； 绿篱剪
S31E07 Glass Faucets; Fire Truck Ladders; Antique Clock Restoration; Barbecue Utensils. 玻璃水龙头； 消防车梯； 古董时钟修复； 烧烤用具
S31E08 Educational Robots; Boxing Belts; Boat Radar Mounts; European-Style Radiators. 教育机器人； 拳击腰带； 船用雷达支架； 欧式散热器
S31E09 Cotton; Rodeo Roping Chutes; Asian Noodles; Rotary Engines. 棉布；圈地绳索滑槽； 亚洲面条； 转子发动机
S31E10 Sleeper Rigs; Pecans; Steel Pulleys; Acetate Eyewear. 卧式钻机； 胡桃；钢滑轮； 醋酸纤维眼镜
S31E11 Wood Slat Baskets; Bells; Gyroscopic Stabilizers. 木板条篮； 铃铛； 陀螺稳定器
S31E12 DeLorean Restoration; Bison Fibre; Shuffleboard Tables; Friction Forged Knives. 德洛林修复； 野牛纤维； 沙狐球桌； 摩擦锻刀
S31E13 Leather Bags; Horse Exercisers; Air Hockey Tables; Copper Sculptures. 皮包； 马术士； 空气曲棍球桌； 铜雕
本季资源��接：
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b088dada8441a467c18d8042977ccd527ec86a5c&dn
第三十二季推出时间为2019-02-10至2019-03-24
S32E01 Electrophoretic Displays; Dry Erase Boards; Air Rifles; Quartz Countertops. 电纸书显示屏； 干擦板； 气步枪； 石英台面
本集看点： 彩色电纸书显示屏的制造过程；
S32E02 Custom Shoe Trees; Clay Targets; Squeeze Chutes; Composite Boat Propellers. 定制鞋架； 粘土目标； 挤压溜槽； 复合船螺旋桨
S32E03 Orthodontic Retainers; Orange Juice; Retractable Saunas; Sawmill Knives. 正畸保持器； 橙汁；伸缩式桑拿房； 锯木厂刀
S32E04 Table Tennis Tables; Plastic Model Kits; Light Microscopes. 乒乓球桌； 塑料模型套件；光学显微镜
S32E05 Hand Forged Hammers; Gummy Vitamins; Boat Trailers; Tea Lights & Jar Candles. 手锻锤； 胶状维生素； 船拖车； 茶灯和罐子蜡烛
S32E06 Guitar Pickups; Heated Furniture; Water Well Cylinders; Non-conductive Tools. 吉他拾音器； 加热家具； 水井缸； 非导电工具
S32E07 Innerspring Mattresses; Stand-Up Paddle Boards; Vacuum Cleaners. 内置弹簧床垫； 站立式桨板； 吸尘机
S32E08 Belts; 3D Metal Printers; Detectable Warning Panels; Model Stirling Engines. 腰带； 3D 金属打印机； 可探测警告面板； 模型斯特林发动机
S32E09 Compression & Extension Springs; Micro Drill Bits; Skiffs; Backsplashes. 压缩和拉伸弹簧； 微型钻头； 小艇； 后挡板
S32E10 Fencing Masks; Books; Ocean Drone Transformers; 3D Puzzles. 击剑面具； 图书; 海洋无人机变形金刚；3D 拼图
S32E11 Tin Whistles; Horn Products; Formula F Race Cars. 锡哨； 喇叭产品； F方程式赛车
S32E12 Motorcycle Goggles; Handbuilt Jukeboxes; Vacuum Excavators; Shaving Sets. 摩托车护目镜； 手工点唱机； 真空挖掘机； 剃须套装
S32E13 Peaked Caps; Custom Water Heaters; Electric Boats; Fencing Foils. 尖顶帽； 定制热水器； 电动船； 花剑
本季资源链接：
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:dc00d0a91c66e7d0e67e5e047941a740ee68afa1&dn
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How It’s Made Index（S21~S30）
How It’s Made是由 Discovery Channel 制作一款王牌节目，又被翻译为制造的原理或造物小百科， 本片从2001年推出至今，涵盖了几乎所有的制造技术 ，非常适合机械专业和对此感兴趣的同学。希望大家享受这趟制造的艺术之旅！
第二十一季推出时间为2013-04-04至2013-08-01
S21E01 Rubber Gloves; Soap Carvings; Aircraft Cabinets; Motorcycle Brake Locks 橡胶手套，肥皂雕刻，飞机木柜，摩托车制动锁
本集看点：极其舒适的橡胶手套制作过程；
S21E02 Powder Horns; Handcrafted Molds; Perogies; Inner Tubes 粉角，手工模具，饺子，内胎
S21E03 Lace; Antique Frame Replicas; Orchids; Unicycle Wheel Hubs 蕾丝，古董架复制品，兰花，独轮车轮毂
S21E04 External Hard Drives; Frozen Shrimp; Thai Rice Boxes; Paper Towel 外置硬盘，冷冻虾，泰国米箱，纸巾
本集看点：硬核的西部数据移动硬盘组装制程；
S21E05 Tea; Roof Finials; Artificial Flowers; Alloy Wheels 茶，屋顶饰物，人造花，合金轮毂
S21E06 Gel Caps; Playground Spring Riders; Frozen Pancakes; Natural Rubber 胶囊，摇摇玩具，冷冻煎饼，天然橡胶
S21E07 Paper Umbrellas; Coal; Aircraft Seats; Urns 纸伞，煤，飞机座椅，瓮
S21E08 Aluminum Canoes;Wood Bowls;Wheelchair Accessible Vans;Marimbas 铝独木舟，木碗，残疾人改装车，木琴
S21E09 Indy Car Seats; Paper Flowers; Stand-by Generators; 赛车座椅，纸花，备用发电机
S21E10 Knee Replacements; Leaf Springs; Lavender; Rivets and Rivet Tools 膝关节置换，钢板弹簧，薰衣草，铆钉和铆钉的工具
本集看点：另外一种大型弹簧结构；铆钉的工作原理；
S21E11 Cast Iron Stoves; Ultralight Aircraft; Snow Groomers; Rubber Bands 铸铁炉具，超轻型飞机，推雪车，橡皮筋
S21E12 Barber Chairs; Sewage Pumps; Bimini Boat Tops; Diesel Filters 理发椅，污水泵，比米尼游乐船，柴油过滤器
S21E13 Car Tires; Silk; Art Conservation; Scuba Tanks 汽车轮胎，丝绸，艺术保护，潜水氧气瓶
本集看点：铝合金终极冲压教程；
本季资源链接：
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:8e3c0ca289825ca99cbb7699dcbaf926aeb42265&dn
第二十二季推出时间为2013-10-10至2014-01-16
S22E01 Electric Stand-Up Vehicles; Frozen Fruit; Beer Coasters; Forged Door Handles 电动站立车，冰冻水果，啤酒杯垫，锻造门把手
本集看点：专业铁匠；
S22E02 Rock Crushers;Fabric Lampshades;Cake Sprinkles;Steam Irons 岩石破碎机，织物灯罩，蛋糕彩条，蒸汽熨斗
S22E03 Indy Steering Wheels;Mixed Salad;Wind Turbines 印地赛车方向盘，什锦沙拉，风力涡轮机
S22E04 Blast Doors; Lipstick; Artificial Palm Trees; Brass Plaques 防爆门，口红，人造棕榈树，黄铜牌匾
S22E05 Carbon Fiber; Antique Frame Restoration; Railcar Movers; Hood Ornaments 碳纤维，古董保存架，有轨机车，车头装饰品
S22E06 Sawhorses and Toolboxes;Sorbet Pops;School Buses 史丹利工具箱，便携汁冰糕，校车
S22E07 Sanders;Solid Terrain Models;Stucco;High-Speed Roll-up Doors 抛光机，固体地形模型，水泥，高速卷门
S22E08 Pressed Glass;Pickup Truck Caps;Alpaca Yarn;Utility Knives 压制玻璃，敞蓬小型载货卡车，羊驼纱线，工具刀
S22E09 Body Casting; Downdraft Stoves; Compression Garments; Electric Motorcycles 身体模型，气流炉灶，长袜，电动摩托车
S22E10 Sidecars;Frozen French Toast;Refrigerator Compressors;Superchargers 摩托侧箱，冷冻法式土司，冰箱压缩机，增压器
S22E11 Custom Knee Braces;Air Conditioners;Window Films;Motorcycle Exhaust 定制膝盖支撑，空调，窗户贴膜，摩托车排气管
S22E12 Solid State Drives;Eye Shadow;Limousines;Dead Blow Hammers 固态硬盘，眼影，豪华加长轿车，香槟锤
本集看点：先进半导体制程制作的硬盘；
S22E13 Dragster Tires; Icing; Floating Docks; Spiral Pipes 赛车轮胎，冰淇淋，飘浮船坞，螺旋管
本季资源链接：
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:c1ddbd38f95041c1482295587ae0c59e19416937&dn
第二十三季推出时间为2014-04-03至2014-07-03
S23E01 Motion Sensors; Belt Loaders; Pheasant Breeding; Diving Helmets 运动传感器，带式装载机，野鸡养殖，潜水头盔
本集看点：先进半导体制程制作的传感器芯片；
S23E02 Rawhide Lampshades; Chocolate Chip Cookies; MRI Scanners 皮灯罩，巧克力饼干，核磁共振成像扫描仪
S23E03 Noise Barrier Walls; Front-Load Washers; Bourbon; Flexible Circuit 声音屏障墙，滚筒洗衣机，威士忌，柔性电路板（FPC）
本集看点：柔性电路板是如何加工的；
S23E04 Railway Bridge Ties; Membrane Filters; Hydraulic Post Drivers; Bi-Planes 铁路桥梁枕木，膜过滤器，桩机，四翼飞机
S23E05 Hospital Laundry; Brass Instrument Restoration; Horse Replicas; Excavation 医院洗衣，铜管乐器修复，马复制品，挖掘机挖斗
本集看点： 用玻璃纤维制作空心复制品；巨厚钢板的激光切割，折弯与焊接；
S23E06 Ceramic Fireplaces; Synthetic Corks; Parking Garage Floor Slabs 陶瓷壁炉，合成软木塞，车库楼板
本集看点： 多种塑胶粒子组合的连续注塑；
S23E07 Oil Pressure Sensors; Printing; Equipment Simulators; Head & Neck Restraints 油压传感器，大型印刷，设备模拟器，护颈
本集看点： 打金线制程；
S23E08 Mobile Concert Stages; Mascara; Continuous Miners; Wood Gift Boxes 移动音��会舞台，睫毛膏，挖煤机，木制礼品盒
S23E09 NASCAR Car Bodies; Hurley Sticks; Tube Amplifiers; Thermal Coffee Pots 纳斯卡跑车车身，赫尔利球球棒，声音放大器，热咖啡壶
S23E10 Electric Vehicle Charging Stations; Grappa; Lunar Rover Replicas 电动汽车充电站； 格拉巴酒； 月球车复制品
S23E11 Slate Tiles; Hot Dog Carts; Garage Door Openers; Bicycle Seats 板岩瓷砖；热狗车； 车库门开启器； 自行车座椅
S23E12 Racing Leathers; Evaporative Cooling Towers; Rocking Chairs; Wire Wheels 赛车皮革；蒸发冷却塔； 摇椅； 钢丝轮
本集看点： 滚丝螺纹工艺；
S23E13 Mountain Bikes; Rice; Lever Action Rifles 山地自行车；大米；杠杆动作步枪
S23E14 Shark Week Edition: Surfboards; Diving Regulators; SCUBA Tanks; Water Skis 回收冲浪板； 潜水调节器； 潜水氧气瓶； 滑水板
S23E15 300th Episode - Shark Week Edition: Sails; Reef Aquariums; Oceanographic Buoys; Folding Kayaks 风帆； 珊瑚礁水族馆； 海洋浮标； 折叠皮划艇
本季资源链接：
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:33139d133183e8bf6e6dfec6684ca9f07bec0982&dn
第二十四季推出时间为2014-09-25至2015-01-15
S24E01 Saunas; Wheelchair Lifts; Dioramas 桑拿； 轮椅升降机； 立体模型
S24E02 Oil Lamps; Chocolate Mints; Underfloor Heating; Pillows 油灯； 巧克力薄荷糖； 地板采暖; 枕头
S24E03 Upright Pianos; Flags; Wet/Dry Vacuums; Medieval Axes 立式钢琴； 旗帜； 湿式/干式吸尘器； 中世纪斧头
S24E04 Skeletal Replicas; Ice Buckets; Dining Chairs; Inground Pools 骨骼复制品； 冰桶； 餐椅； 地下游泳池
S24E05 Automatic Sliding Doors; Gin; Firearms Restoration 自动推拉门； 杜松子酒; 枪械修复
S24E06 Scuba Lights; Sandals; Race Car Simulators; Fibreglass Doors 潜水灯；凉鞋；赛车模拟器； 玻璃钢门
S24E07 Wood Windows; Cashmere Fabric; Plastic Recycling; Architectural Glass 木窗； 羊绒面料； 塑料回收； 建筑玻璃
S24E08 Gas Barbecues; Mattress Pads; Ear Prostheses 燃气烧烤炉； 床垫； 耳假体
S24E09 Recycled Skateboards; Braided Pastry; Construction Trailers; Vises 回收滑板； 编织糕点； 施工拖车； 虎钳
S24E10 Plasma Gems; Special Effects Snow; Piano Restoration 等离子宝石； 特效雪； 钢琴修复
S24E11 3-Wheel Electric Bikes; Skin Cream; Patio Heaters; Wood Wheels 三轮电动自行车； 润肤霜; 天井取暖器； 木轮
S24E12 Old West Holsters; Underwater Video Housings; Soy Beverages; Pet Nail Trimmers 老西部皮套； 水下视频外壳； 大豆饮料； 宠物指甲修剪器
S24E13 Wood Garage Doors; Sand and Salt Spreaders; Animatronic Dinosaurs 木车库门； 沙子和盐撒布机； 电子动画恐龙
本季资源链接：
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:0a4eda224bbaf24666bb12c13bf1cd5732bf51fd&dn
第二十五季推出时间为2015-04-02至2015-07-02
S25E01 Grammy Awards; Bicycle Lights; Above-Ground Pools; Foldable Solar Panels 格莱美奖; 自行车灯； 地上游泳池； 可折叠太阳能电池板
S25E02 Led Stage Lights; Apple Cider; Chemical Tank Trailers; Ornate Stone Floor LED舞台灯； 苹果酒; 化学品罐拖车； 华丽的石地板
S25E03 Fishing Line; Industrial Mixers; Natural Baking Soda; and Tow Trucks 钓鱼线; 工业搅拌机； 天然小苏打； 拖车
S25E04 Storage Sheds; Industrial Fans; Parchment Paper; and Climbing Walls 储藏棚； 工业风扇；羊皮纸；攀岩墙
S25E05 Precast Concrete Walls; 3D Printers; Telescopic Cranes; Kerosene Lamp Burners 预制混凝土墙； 3D 打印机； 伸缩式起重机； 煤油灯燃烧器
S25E06 Car Headlamps; Directional Drills; Pet Combs; and Stained Glass Restoration 汽车大灯； 定向钻； 宠物梳子； 彩色玻璃修复
S25E07 Handcrafted Skis; Septic Tanks; Hydroformed Chassis Parts; Aquarium Windows 手工制作的滑雪板； 化粪池; 液压成型底盘零件； 水族馆窗户
S25E08 Zip Line Brakes; Silk Fiber Lamps; Round Balers; Comfort Shoes 拉链线制动器； 丝纤维灯； 圆形打包机； 舒适鞋
S25E09 Armored Vehicles; Tension Fabric Buildings; Rowers; Sculpture Enlargements 装甲车； 张力织物建筑； 划船者； 雕塑放大
S25E10 Mountain Bike Suspensions; Surgical Sutures; Grain Dryers; and Frying Pans 山地自行车悬架； 手术缝合； 谷物烘干机； 煎锅
S25E11 Downhill Ski Bindings; Immersion Washers; Mining Ventilation; Pencil Sharpeners 速降滑雪绑定； 浸入式垫圈； 矿用通风； 卷笔刀
S25E12 Gingerbread Houses; Livestock Trailers; Hangar Doors; and Toy Figurines 姜饼屋； 牲畜拖车； 机库门； 玩具公仔
S25E13 Traffic Signal Poles; Coffee Filters; and Chainsaw Mining Machines; 交通信号杆； 咖啡过滤器； 链锯采矿机；
本季资源链接：
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:78ae318559e0477f5bb1db0abb0fcfa841e491be&dn
第二十六季推出时间为2015-09-10至2015-12-17
S26E01 Time-Delay Locks; Brownies; Pallet Dispensers; and Crystal Chandeliers 延时锁； 布朗尼; 托盘分配器； 水晶吊灯
S26E02 Bead Wire; Mini Pepperoni; Irrigation Sprinklers; and Leather Gloves 珠线； 迷你意大利辣香肠； 灌溉喷头； 皮手套
S26E03 Mouth-Blown Window Glass; Water Pumps; Sake; Tweezers 口吹窗玻璃； 水泵; 清酒; 镊子
S26E04 Statue Restoration; Tripods; Polish Sausages; Welding Guns 雕像修复； 三脚架； 波兰香肠； 焊枪
S26E05 Champagne; ATMs; Marine Turbochargers; 香槟酒; 自动取款机； 船用涡轮增压器；
S26E06 Sharpening Steels; Bladder Pumps; Ironing Boards; and Kayak Paddles 磨刀钢； 膀胱泵； 烫衣板； 皮划艇桨
S26E07 Champagne Hoods; Pneumatic Systems; Espresso Machines; Pizza Ovens 香槟罩； 气动系统； 浓缩咖啡机； 比萨烤箱
S26E08 Stile & Rail Doors, Steam Cleaners, Hand-Held Pizzas, and Power Brushes 轨道门；蒸汽清洁器；手持比萨饼；电动刷
S26E09 Industrial Casters; Wedding Cakes; THz Spectrometers; Racing Catamarans 工业脚轮； 婚礼蛋糕； 太赫兹光谱仪； 竞速双体船
S26E10 Ceramic Grills, Pneumatic Punchers, Water Jet Fountains, Wooden Surfboards 陶瓷烤架、气动打孔机、喷水喷泉、木制冲浪板
S26E11 Vibrating Mining Screens; Whoopie Pies; Utility Poles; Roller Conveyors 振动采矿筛； 百日咳派； 电线杆； 滚筒输送机
本集看点：电线杆也内卷；
S26E12 Exercise Bikes; Cornish Pasties; Pasta Makers; Slate Products 健身车； 康沃尔馅饼； 面食制造商； 板岩产品
S26E13 Channel Signs, Wetsuits, and Aluminum Aircraft 航道标志；潜水服；铝制飞机
本季资源链接：
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:85892a96e09b0d9f596d98bcd450aeb870a6af3d&dn
第二十七季推出时间为2016-05-19至2016-08-15
S27E01 CNC Assembly Machines; Lemon Tarts; Miniature War Figures 数控组装机； 柠檬馅饼； 微型战争人物
S27E02 Chemical Tank Pressure Vents; Candy Wafers; Food Trucks; Traditional Ropes 化学品罐压力通风口； 糖果晶圆； 食品卡车； 传统绳索
S27E03 Graphene; Worlds Smallest Car; Force Testers; Composite Cans 石墨烯； 世界上最小的汽车； 力测试仪； 复合罐
本集看点：单层的石墨烯是如何分离出来的；
S27E04 LED tubes; chocolate peanut butter bars; robotic medication dispensers. LED灯管；巧克力花生酱棒；机器人配药器
S27E05 Commercial drones; aquarium fish; runway cleaners. 商用无人机； 观赏鱼； 跑道清洁工
S27E06 Wooden Matches, Tillage Machines, Telescopic Gangways 木火柴、耕地机、伸缩式舷梯
S27E07 Mosquito Coils, Solar-Assist Tricycles, Palm Oil, Fiberglass Chopper Guns 蚊香、太阳能辅助三轮车、棕榈油、玻璃纤维斩波枪
S27E08 Wood Toys, Retro Toasters, Laboratory Furnaces, Aerogel 木制玩具、复古烤面包机、实验室炉、气凝胶
S27E09 Combination Squares, Farmed Shrimp, Ball Valves and String Trimmers 组合方形、养殖虾、球阀和切线器
S27E10 Chinese-style Furniture, Electrical Switches, Thai Fish Sauce, Cappers 中式家具、电器开关、泰式鱼露、压盖机
S27E11 Mortars and pestles; bowling lane conditioners; crematories 研钵和研杵； 保龄球道调节器； 火葬场
S27E12 Race Car Oil Tanks; Plaster Mouldings; Lemongrass Oil 赛车油箱； 石膏线条； 柠檬草油
S27E13 Coconut Charcoal; Dial Indicators; Wet Downdraft Tables; Bassoon Reeds 椰子炭； 表盘指示器； 湿式下吸台； 巴松管簧片
本季资源链接：
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:5289719d3944f98f2c2d425cd79b0487aec36fc7&dn
第二十八季推出时间为2016-08-22至2016-11-03
S28E01 Classic Car Gauges; Chocolate Marble Cake; Ghillie Kettles 经典汽车仪表； 巧克力大理石蛋糕； 吉利水壶
S28E02 Pasta Dies; Blueberries; Composting Toilets; Surge Arresters 面食模具； 蓝莓; 堆肥厕所； 避雷器
S28E03 Angle Grinders; Berry Baskets; Omnidirectional Speakers 角磨机； 浆果篮； 全向扬声器
S28E04 Cartridge Blades; Chocolate Banana Loaves; Vending 墨盒刀片； 巧克力香蕉面包； 自动售货机
S28E05 Ultra-Thin Glass; Pallet Dismantlers; Cupcakes; Stainless Steel 超薄玻璃； 托盘拆卸器； 纸杯蛋糕; 不锈钢
本集看点： 溢流熔融法制作的柔性超薄玻璃（应该是康宁）；
S28E06 Potash; Leather Bracelets; Wild Rice; Hex Key L Wrenches 钾肥； 皮革手链； 野米; 六角扳手 L
S28E07 Nail Files; Birch Canoes; Boat Hardtops; High Voltage Circuit 指甲锉； 桦木独木舟； 船硬顶； 高压电路
S28E08 Macarons; Pine Needle Baskets; Micrometers 马卡龙； 松针篮； 千分尺
S28E09 Endoscopes; Megaphones; Uranium 内窥镜； 扩音器； 铀
S28E10 Hollow Disk Pumps; Palm Sugar; Yachts 空心圆盘泵； 棕榈糖; 游艇
S28E11 Abalone Collagen; Digital-to-Analog Converters; Embosssed 鲍鱼胶原蛋白； 数模转换器； 压花
S28E12 Thai Barbecues; Diving Masks & Fins; Bassoons 泰式烧烤； 潜水面罩和脚蹼； 巴松管
S28E13 Wooden Utensils; Transport Refrigeration Units; Moccasins 木制餐具； 运输制冷装置； 莫卡辛鞋
本季资源链接：
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:6b3298e03c0e32ede5bc1b81e13a315adae86528&dn
第二十九季推出时间为2017-06-22至2017-09-24
S29E01 Skateboard Wheels; Baklava & Galaktoboureko; CO2 滑板轮；千层酥皮奶冻玉米糕 ；二氧化碳
S29E02 Nuno Felt; Drum Crushers; Kimchi; Parquet Floors 努诺毡；鼓式破碎机；泡菜；镶木地板
S29E03 Wood Watches; Steel Bicycles; Raw Pet Food; Replica Police 木表； 钢制自行车； 生宠物食品； 复制警察
S29E04 Thermoplastic Fire Helmets; Basketry Sculptures; Coffee 热塑性消防头盔； 篮子雕塑； 咖啡
S29E05 Office Chairs; Vinobrew; Reconditioned Sander Drums 办公椅； 酒酿； 翻新砂光鼓
S29E06 Fireplace Bellows; Calissons; Diving Watercraft 壁炉波纹管； 卡利松； 潜水艇
S29E07 Artist Brushes; DEF Tank Heaters; Game Tables; Art Glass 艺术家画笔； DEF 储罐加热器； 游戏桌； 艺术玻璃
S29E08 Flying Water Bikes; Throttle Position Sensors; Cinnamon 飞行水上自行车； 油门位置传感器； 肉桂
S29E09 Foosball Tables; Marseille Soap; Laguiole Pocket Knives 桌上足球桌； 马赛皂； 拉吉奥小折刀
S29E10 Berets; Pastis; Stationary Bikes 贝雷帽； 意大利面食； 固定自行车
S29E11 Bistro Sets; Letterpress Printing; Bamboo Lights; Asphalt 小酒馆套餐； 凸版印刷； 竹灯； 沥青压车
S29E12 Technological Corks; Zinc Gutters; Traditional Ham; Chisteras 技术软木塞； 锌天沟； 传统火腿； 奇斯特拉斯游戏手臂
S29E13 Pentanque Ball; Biologic Medicines; Asphalt Pavers; Basques 滚球； 生物药物； 沥青摊铺机； 巴斯克鞋
本期看点：空心��铁球焊接，再两步CNC制作出完美球形；
本季资源链接：
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:971ec4ef1ce447538e18d1305ec2f8103daee29d&dn
第三十季推出时间为 2017-09-11至2017-12-18
S30E01 Leather Basketballs; Flood Gates; Wood Panel Canvases; Shoelaces 皮革篮球； 防洪闸； 木板画布； 鞋带
S30E02 Power Steering Pumps; Asian Bowl Meals; Walking Canes 动力转向泵； 亚洲碗餐； 手杖
S30E03 Plant Oil Extractors; Custom Chandeliers; Power Trainers; Coffee Pods 植物油提取器； 定制吊灯； 力量训练器； 咖啡包
S30E04 Witness Samples; Pressure Washers; Bee Hives; Cast Iron Cookers 见证样品； 压力垫圈； 蜂箱； 铸铁炊具
S30E05 Leather Sculptures; Travel Hot Plates; Ochre; Hurdy Gurdies 皮革雕塑； 旅行热板； 赭石；赫迪·古尔迪斯
S30E06 Spiral Stairs; Pita Bread; Exhaust Headers; Molded Limestone Artwork 螺旋楼梯； 皮塔饼； 排气集管； 模压石灰石艺术品
S30E07 Recycled Skateboard Guitars; Solar Street Lights; Dolls 回收的滑板吉他； 太阳能路灯； 娃娃
S30E08 Glass Sculptures; Racing Pulley Systems; Inductors; Medicine Balls 玻璃雕塑； 赛车滑轮系统； 电感器； 药丸
S30E09 Fish Rubbings; Clay Shooting Machines; Almonds; High-End Motorcycles 鱼拓片； 粘土射击机； 杏仁; 高端摩托车
S30E10 Throttle Bodies; Limestone Fireplace Mantels; Candied Fruit & Fruit Jellies; Linen Ukulele 节气门体； 石灰石壁炉架； 蜜饯和果冻； 亚麻尤克里里
S30E11 Rubber Balls; Motion Chairs; Montreal Smoked Meat; Motorized Scooters 橡胶球； 运动椅； 蒙特利尔熏肉； 电动滑板车
S30E12 Aerospace Fasteners; Cactus Pear Puree; Lab Reactors 航空紧固件； 仙人掌梨泥； 实验室反应器
S30E13 Wall Beds; Sundae Cups; Digital Paintings; Badminton Rackets 壁床； 圣代杯； 数字绘画； 羽毛球拍
本季资源链接：
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:cc865a515b621051b71e833bd62e466fc45949d3&dn
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