Jonsa | Anti-Jonerys ✔ | Villian Dany Theory ✔| Political Jon Theory✔
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Jon: I love Sansa like a sister
Jon: *Is a Targ*
Jon: Pretty sister
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Bringing this back because my ending that I threw together in 5 minutes STILL MAKES MORE SENSE THAN THE GOT ENDING. Like, sure, let's have Bran on the Iron Throne - as a steward! Like what pissed me off the most about the ending was how it took all the established rules and pissed them away. Bran has NO CLAIM for kingship! But he doesn't have to be king, just have the power of one! Also Jon can go to the far north WITHOUT joining a non-existent nights watch. I mean, it still has the flaw of Dany going dark side and killing innocents when it was more likely that she would freak out about Jon's lineage and start a fight over that where he was forced to kill her. But fuck. How can I, a random twenty something with no writing experience, manage to put together a more cohesive ending than the professional and experience writers on the show? Using the same basic outline that they were insanely given to follow?
Gah!
What do you think about the leaks? Bran becoming King, Sansa ruling the north and Jon spending the rest of his life at Castle Black. That's a sad ending.
Hm… I honestly don’t know. I’ll break it down for points in favour of this outcome, and points against this outcome as I see it.
Most in Favour - Sansa Ruling the North Alone
In this episode, we had three points that I think might support these spoilers. The first, is Sansa’s betrayal of Jon. I’ve seen people defend it left and right, and I agree with a lot of that. I agree that in the long run, it was the right thing for Sansa to do. However it was still a fundamental betrayal of Jon’s trust. Not only was it a fundamental betrayal of trust, but there was a lot of emphasis placed on it. Jon begs Sansa and Arya to keep his secret, begs them to swear to him, that they will say nothing. We see so much emphasis put on Sansa’s response here, the look on her face, the look on Jon’s face. This to me feels like Robb marrying Talisa, an important moment that will have long lasting negative affects on the characters.
I think that this could very easily lead to a place where Sansa gets what she wants but at a price. She’s gotten what she wants, and likely what’s best, but she’s gotten it at Jon’s expense. I can see a coldness forming in their relationship from that, a distance between the two. I can see her, all alone at Winterfell, mourning the ghosts of her family and the relationship with the man she loves.
The scariest part is that it fits in with the Jenny of Oldstones parallel. I keep seeing people celebrating the parallel between Sansa and Jenny, because of Jenny’s love for a Targaryen prince, but people also keep ignoring the fact that Jenny of Oldstones is a tragedy. In the end, Jenny is all alone in her castle, dancing with her ghosts and wishing for a return to the past. People say that it doesn’t have to be an exact parallel, and I agree, but discounting it as a possibility is just us sticking our heads in the sand like so many j0nerys shippers/D4ny stans have.
Least in Favour - Bran on the Iron Throne
Bran has stated multiple times that he can never be any kind of lord. Not only does he not want it, but he seems to believe that it is not possible for him. Bran also has absolutely no claim to the Iron Throne. Of course, neither does Cercei, however I don’t think Cercei would have ever been able to hold the throne for long, nor do I think she intended to, really. More and more I think Cercei is using what she knows is temporary power as a sort of cosmic suicidal temper tantrum (look it up on TV tropes), but I digress.
My point is, I don’t think Bran would be able to take and keep the throne, nor do I think he would want to. While I can see Jon giving in to the demand that he take the throne and trying to govern, simply because he sees it as his duty, I see Bran flat out refusing because he doesn’t see it as his duty.
I can maybe see some foreshadowing in 8x04 when Tyrion asks why Bran doesn’t rule.
The Wild Card - Jon Back in the Far North
So when I first saw this leak, it was before episode 4 came out and I immediately discounted it because it had Jon restarting the Night’s Watch. I said before, and I will say it a thousand times more: this makes absolutely no fucking sense.
The Night’s Watch Will Never Come Back Because There Is Nothing For It To Fucking Watch.
So I was absolutely convinced that this was a bogus fake leak… and then Jon spoke to Tormund in 8x04. That was obvious and blatant foreshadowing, however if it’s a fake leak, then right before episode 4, when this obvious foreshadowing appears, would be exactly when I leak it. It’s almost too convenient that this leak appeared when it did.
That being said, I will not follow in the path of J0nerys shippers/D4ny stans and bury my head in the sand when things aren’t looking my way. From watching episode 4, a picture formed in my head for how all three of those leaked endings could happen:
Jon doesn’t want to be King. He desperately doesn’t want to be King. He knows D4ny isn’t the best choice, but he believe’s that as long as he and his family aren’t threats to her, her fundamentally not-evil nature will allow them all to survive. Then he goes to lay siege on Kingslanding and everything changes when the Fire Nation D4ny attacks the Red Keep, murdering hundreds, maybe thousands of innocents. He’s horrified, he doesn’t know what to do, then at some public place, Varys reveals to the world who Jon really is, and urges him to take his rightful place on the throne.
This gets Varys killed and spurs Jon and D4ny against each other. Jon defeats D4ny and executes her for her war crimes. But then he’s so tired. He’s just executed his aunt, he’s just had his trust betrayed by the person he trusts most, he’s just been forced into this position that he never wanted, something that’s always caused people pain. He doesn’t want this, he just wants it to be over.
Then he remembers Aemon, remembers how he gave up the throne, and for once in his life goes fuck duty. He shoves a stewardship onto Bran and just leaves. Leaves behind all his duties and all the manipulation and the backstabbing and the lies and the fighting. He’s out, he’s done. He heads up north to the wall and becomes a lumberjack or something.
TL;DR: The Starks are alive and well, there is finally peace. But D4ny has let her inner demons take over and suffered the consequences, Sansa has played the Game and won but at the expense of all her relationships, Bran has fulfilled his magical destiny but is a shadow of himself as a result, Jon has finally had too much and turned away from duty and Arya is so obsessed with vengeance and death that she can never be happy. I can see that as a viable ending. I hate it. I hate it so fucking much. But I can see it happening.
Can someone please argue with me, please.
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Wow. So with the outline for what was going to happen at the end I still managed to make a better ending for game of thrones than D&D
What do you think about the leaks? Bran becoming King, Sansa ruling the north and Jon spending the rest of his life at Castle Black. That's a sad ending.
Hm… I honestly don’t know. I’ll break it down for points in favour of this outcome, and points against this outcome as I see it.
Most in Favour - Sansa Ruling the North Alone
In this episode, we had three points that I think might support these spoilers. The first, is Sansa’s betrayal of Jon. I’ve seen people defend it left and right, and I agree with a lot of that. I agree that in the long run, it was the right thing for Sansa to do. However it was still a fundamental betrayal of Jon’s trust. Not only was it a fundamental betrayal of trust, but there was a lot of emphasis placed on it. Jon begs Sansa and Arya to keep his secret, begs them to swear to him, that they will say nothing. We see so much emphasis put on Sansa’s response here, the look on her face, the look on Jon’s face. This to me feels like Robb marrying Talisa, an important moment that will have long lasting negative affects on the characters.
I think that this could very easily lead to a place where Sansa gets what she wants but at a price. She’s gotten what she wants, and likely what’s best, but she’s gotten it at Jon’s expense. I can see a coldness forming in their relationship from that, a distance between the two. I can see her, all alone at Winterfell, mourning the ghosts of her family and the relationship with the man she loves.
The scariest part is that it fits in with the Jenny of Oldstones parallel. I keep seeing people celebrating the parallel between Sansa and Jenny, because of Jenny’s love for a Targaryen prince, but people also keep ignoring the fact that Jenny of Oldstones is a tragedy. In the end, Jenny is all alone in her castle, dancing with her ghosts and wishing for a return to the past. People say that it doesn’t have to be an exact parallel, and I agree, but discounting it as a possibility is just us sticking our heads in the sand like so many j0nerys shippers/D4ny stans have.
Least in Favour - Bran on the Iron Throne
Bran has stated multiple times that he can never be any kind of lord. Not only does he not want it, but he seems to believe that it is not possible for him. Bran also has absolutely no claim to the Iron Throne. Of course, neither does Cercei, however I don’t think Cercei would have ever been able to hold the throne for long, nor do I think she intended to, really. More and more I think Cercei is using what she knows is temporary power as a sort of cosmic suicidal temper tantrum (look it up on TV tropes), but I digress.
My point is, I don’t think Bran would be able to take and keep the throne, nor do I think he would want to. While I can see Jon giving in to the demand that he take the throne and trying to govern, simply because he sees it as his duty, I see Bran flat out refusing because he doesn’t see it as his duty.
I can maybe see some foreshadowing in 8x04 when Tyrion asks why Bran doesn’t rule.
The Wild Card - Jon Back in the Far North
So when I first saw this leak, it was before episode 4 came out and I immediately discounted it because it had Jon restarting the Night’s Watch. I said before, and I will say it a thousand times more: this makes absolutely no fucking sense.
The Night’s Watch Will Never Come Back Because There Is Nothing For It To Fucking Watch.
So I was absolutely convinced that this was a bogus fake leak… and then Jon spoke to Tormund in 8x04. That was obvious and blatant foreshadowing, however if it’s a fake leak, then right before episode 4, when this obvious foreshadowing appears, would be exactly when I leak it. It’s almost too convenient that this leak appeared when it did.
That being said, I will not follow in the path of J0nerys shippers/D4ny stans and bury my head in the sand when things aren’t looking my way. From watching episode 4, a picture formed in my head for how all three of those leaked endings could happen:
Jon doesn’t want to be King. He desperately doesn’t want to be King. He knows D4ny isn’t the best choice, but he believe’s that as long as he and his family aren’t threats to her, her fundamentally not-evil nature will allow them all to survive. Then he goes to lay siege on Kingslanding and everything changes when the Fire Nation D4ny attacks the Red Keep, murdering hundreds, maybe thousands of innocents. He’s horrified, he doesn’t know what to do, then at some public place, Varys reveals to the world who Jon really is, and urges him to take his rightful place on the throne.
This gets Varys killed and spurs Jon and D4ny against each other. Jon defeats D4ny and executes her for her war crimes. But then he’s so tired. He’s just executed his aunt, he’s just had his trust betrayed by the person he trusts most, he’s just been forced into this position that he never wanted, something that’s always caused people pain. He doesn’t want this, he just wants it to be over.
Then he remembers Aemon, remembers how he gave up the throne, and for once in his life goes fuck duty. He shoves a stewardship onto Bran and just leaves. Leaves behind all his duties and all the manipulation and the backstabbing and the lies and the fighting. He’s out, he’s done. He heads up north to the wall and becomes a lumberjack or something.
TL;DR: The Starks are alive and well, there is finally peace. But D4ny has let her inner demons take over and suffered the consequences, Sansa has played the Game and won but at the expense of all her relationships, Bran has fulfilled his magical destiny but is a shadow of himself as a result, Jon has finally had too much and turned away from duty and Arya is so obsessed with vengeance and death that she can never be happy. I can see that as a viable ending. I hate it. I hate it so fucking much. But I can see it happening.
Can someone please argue with me, please.
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All I’m saying is Jon is asked “would you bed your sister” and Sansa is asked “would you like to marry your cousin” in the same book.
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So someone sent me an ask in regards to Sansa the other day. And since I have the time to actually post something I decided not to post their salty ass comments and just post instead all the times Jon is about to snap on anything that is connected to Sansa in both book and show. Anon, here you go, and you’re welcome. 😉
Janos Slynt
Littlefinger
Theon
Ramsay
Daenerys
Jon=FOR SANSA
Anyone wanting to add a gif with Jon saying he was going to mess Joffrey up back in season one, is more than welcome to add it. 😊
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You don't have to ship Jonsa but it's hilarious when antis try to dismiss any connection between the two.Imagine if one of their faves had covered themselves in a 'F&B'stained cloak, their betrothed referred to as 'the dragon's heir',snow brushing their face as lover's kisses, hearing a wolf's howl(One of their faves hears it but in case of Sansa , it is dismissed as "you are trying to look too much into it") .If their fav had married a Jon's namesake in a family tree, fandom would have erupted.
Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry I missed this when you sent it.
Agree with what you said. The textual evidence for Jon+Sansa far exceeds most popular theories within the fandom. Men ridicule it because it’s largely coming from female voices, and other shippers are hysterical towards it because they realize how threatening it is.
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Master meta post
Master meta post
So I decided to put together some of my metas/ask posts (that tend to become metas occasionally) for convenience and pin this post.
I have not yet linked all (obviously), but I will revisit this post once in a while and add links…
ASOIAF - Bookwise
Songs and music
Meta series on “Singers singing songs and their impact on character in ASOIAF”
part 1: Jon
part 2: Sansa
part 3: Daenerys
part 4: Starks and Lannisters
An ask about Florian and Jonquil (note the excellent additions!)
Politics in ASOIAF/GoT
Legitimacy of Kings in Westeros
Claim to the throne, right to the throne and the making of Kings
Daenerys and her understanding of history
Marriage annulment
Targaryens
Would Jon on the throne mean a Targ restoration?
Why did the Targs practice incest and what are the political repercussions?
Jon Snow’s Targ name
Shipping:
Jonsa, Jon€rys and the logic of shipping
Shipping and canon shipping
Show rants:
Catfight at Winterhell
Annulment of marriages in the Middle Ages
Daenerys and her understanding of history
Circular storytelling
The full cirlce of Westeros
Why the endgame doesn’t make sense: 1 (Bran) , 2 (Tyrion), 3 (Arya), 4 (Sansa), 5 (Jon)
Women:
Women in Westeros and misogyny - Cersei
Women in Westeros and misogyny - Brienne
Comparison of Jonsa with other ships
Jonsa and Jon€rys (my oldest post, Nov 2016)
In General: Incest, Endogamy, Exogamy, Genetic attraction phenomenon
Foreshadowing for Jonsa, Jon€rys and J0nrya
What was GRRM’s original idea?
J0nrya and the original outline
Will there be a Jon€rys baby? (x, x,
Arya and Jonsa, J0nrya reunion
Political J0nrya marriage after Sansa’s death?
J0nrya as a possibility in books and show
Jon and Catelyn
Sansa Stark
No damsel in distress
Sansa is Jon’s type
Arguments against Sansa and “Rickard Forrester” as a rando last minute love interest (x
Ned and Cat
The man who passes the sentence
Was Ned in love with Ashara and did he have sex with her?
Ned and Cat as parents
The Starks value life
Robb’s will and the inheritance in the North (x, x
Alys Karstark as possible marriage candidate
Literal tropes:
Relationship tropes in GoT and ASOIAF
Accidental incest and secret parentage and their outcoming
The function of secret parentage in fiction
What even is incest?
Fairy tales:
The trickster cat
The Bear and the Maiden fair
The Pig boy
Comparisons with Tolkien:
Beren and Luthien: part 1, part 2, part 3
Aragorn and Arwen
The Girl in Grey:
Various asks on the Girl in Grey (x,
DarkDany stuff
Why conquer Westeros at all?
A Storm that hits
Conquerors landing on the shore
Fire and Blood:
Methods of foreshadowing
Alysanne
Jaime
Succession in Fire and Blood
Fire and Blood tidbits
Will Arya kill Dany?
Archmaester Glydaen and his bias
Political Jon
Jon the Player, Jon the Deceiver?
Cersei and Aurane Waters as a parallel to Jon and Da€nerys
Deceiving and Lying Starks
Jon the Negotiator
Jon’s political skill on the show
Starks and their political skills
Other:
Jaime Lannister as Hand of the King
Jaime as Hand - Hints in F&B (1, 2
Tully mud, blood, death and sudden change
Rains of Castamere and the futility of revenge
Stark words and Stark obligations
Crack:
Why we should ship Tormund and Dany
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Jon: I love Sansa like a sister
Jon: *Is a Targ*
Jon: Pretty sister
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hi guys! could you recommend some jonsa fics with the arranged marriage trope? i have a friend who's slowly diving into the asoiaf fandom and i think that the arranged marriage trope is a good way to get them invested in jonsa 😂
Hi Anon!
Good luck with your friend! This is quite a popular trope in the Jonsa community so there are tons of fics that we could rec - here’s a few...
They Tumble Down by @athimbleful
What A Disappointment by just_a_dram
All My Days by @thefanficwriter21
I Don’t Love You (I Always Will) by usuallysunny
Go West, Jon Snow by @kittykatknits
The Dragon Prince by usuallysunny
Spark by Nickety
To Be Alone With You by appletooth
It All Comes Down To You by @snowsinthenorth
The Shelter Of Your Arms by @framboise-fics
Strange Bedfellows by Nickety
The Old Gods and The New by @sansapotter
To Mend This Broken Thing by @vivilove-jonsa
The Little Bird Princess by @captainbee89
What If (Don’t Even Think It) by @zarahjoyce
The Other Half To My Soul by @amymel86
Wait For Me, My Baby by usuallysunny
Say Your Vows (Against My Skin) by @madamebaggio
I’m Holding You Closer Than Most (Cause You Are My Heaven) by @sansaswolfbits
Finding Love In The Strangest Places by Zazou
A Question of Symbolism by @theasexualscorpio
Bedding by @morethenjustpretty
Duty, Desire, or Love? by @damdamfino
I hope you find something you like in amongst these! Here is a link to the 232 Jonsa fics that are currently tagged with ‘Arranged Marriage’ as well.
And we’d really love to see others from the tag adding their own recs in the notes since this trope is such a staple in our fandom :)
Thanks,
Amy x
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Sansa’s character arc (It is my claim. No one will ever marry me for love)
Jon’s character arc (A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of)
Stark legacy (He would father no sons who might someday contest with Catelyn’s own grandchildren for Winterfell)
The entire chain of events leading to King Bran (The Prince of Dragonflies loved Jenny of Oldstones so much he cast aside a crown)
Jon’s love over duty (What is honor compared to a woman’s love)
Dany’s treason for love (Three treasons will you know. Once for blood and once for gold and once for love)
RLJ Payoff!!!!!
…is one single plot point
Yes, Jonsa is that bitch!!
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The Game of Thrones cast at the last script reading
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I’m convinced 75% of the ASOIAF fandom failed first year high school English.
Their insistence on misinterpreting ALL OF THE WORDS is simply breathtaking.
Keep reading
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So I went back to check out my old meta and I am delighted to inform you that I put more thought into the politics of season 8 than the showrunners did!
Food For Thought
I’ve been thinking about the different regions of Westeros. As far as we know, D4ny technically controls The North, Dorne, The Westerlands and The Reach. While Cercei controls The Crownlands, The Stormlands and The Riverlands. Finally Sweetrobin controls the Vale and I think is neutral to both D and Cercei, despite siding pretty firmly with Sansa.
But what happens when you take D4ny and Cercei out of the equation is REALLY interesting.
The Riverlands: Traditionally The Riverlands were ruled over by the Tullys, they were removed from power during the show in favour of House (EDIT) Frey. Now that the Freys are all dead I think The Riverlands could pretty easily fall back under the Tullys again. This means either Edmure or, if he’s still a prisoner, Sansa. Either way, the Riverlands hold a loyalty to Sansa.
The Vale: Under the control of Robin Arryn, Sansa, Bran and Arya’s cousin. Because he’s so young, The real control of The Vale appears to belong to Yohn Royce, who seems to support Sansa.
The Iron Islands: Currently under the control of Euron Greyjoy, however Yara is heading back there to take it back. If she does, she has an allegiance to D4ny. Theon howeever, also has an allegiance with the Starks. I think whoever Theon sides with, Yara will side with, and I think he will side with the Starks.
The Westerlands: D4ny’s armies left Casterly Rock, so I don’t know who controls The Westerlands now. However, now that he’s left the Kingsguard, Jaime is the heir with Tyrion second. I don’t see Tyrion following the Starks or Jaime following D4ny, and I don’t see them splitting either. Either way, I believe Jaime will pledge himself to the Starks.
The Crownlands: Obviously under Cercei’s control but if you’re ignoring her you have three contenders: D4ny, Gendry or Jon. All have a very strong claim.
The Stormlands: ???? I don’t think it’s been addressed at all since Stannis died? However the strongest claim to the Baratheon inheritance would be Gendry.
The Reach: This is interesting. All the Tyrells are gone HOWEVER before the Lannister army set off for High Garden, Jaime promised the lordship of The Reach to the Tarlys. Of course that was a Lannister promise and D4ny now controls The Reach, I’m guessing through all those people she forced to bend the knee. The thing is, for the Tarlys to have been offered this position, they had to have a solid claim and be fairly high in the pecking order. It is likely that a Tarly like, say, Sam could gain control of The Reach pretty easily.
Dorne: ?????? Who the fuck even knows with Dorne. What’s her name, the sand snake, she could probably take control if freed (according to the shows stupid logic) and she’s alligned with D.
So what does this all mean? Well let me pull out my handy alignment chart:
So, without any armies/dragons: Cercei has nothing, D4ny (without Jon/Sansa) has tenuous influence of two/three regions. Together, Jon and Sansa (but mostly Sansa) have a strong influence over four regions and the possible influence over another four, leaving out only Dorne.
On the enemies side of things, Cercei has six enemies; D4ny has four enemies in this list, including Sansa who Jon will side with, and Jaime who I believe Tyrion will side with. Finally Jon and Sansa collectively only have Cercei and D4ny as enemies.
What’s also interesting is how many of these super influential characters have converged on Winterfell. If you count Sansa as heir of hoouse Tully, then potential leaders of all the regions save Dorne are either currently in or about to be in Winterfell (I forgot to add Yohn Royce to the thing).
TL;DR together Jon and Sansa have the loyalties of 8/9 regions of Westeros. Jon and D4ny together would have, like, maybe four. And the mere idea that Cercei will keep the Iron Throne is completely laughable.
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Person: if you like a fictional relationship, I think that you should be tortured for all eternity.
Me: I see, and somehow out of the two of us I'M the bad person...

Me:
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it really is telling that some of you guys' passive aggressiveness towards sansa turned to full on hate the moment she got her autonomy.
and you guys are the same people that preach 'feminism' and 'equality' and shit but the sight of sansa exercising her freedom and just living without having to be under her abusers' thumbs just grains on you to the point that there are all of these 'think pieces' of how the show "ruined" her character for you. the show did a lot of shit wrong where it came to sansa but let's be real. that's not what bothers you guys. what bothers you guys is that she's no longer that docile little princess who sort of affected the narrative but unimportant enough that you could just go 'eh whatever' at her scenes and you could just muster up a lil bit of pity for but you didn't really care what happened to her.
but the moment she started being more involved in the story, and stopped pandering to the men you guys nut yourselves over, it started becoming a problem.
and now we have all these 'show!sansa can choke' bs posts.
how fucking transparent.
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Also you're initial problem was that this was described as "not a healthy relationship". It was not. She demanded/begged/gave him an ultimatum saying that he couldn't tell his family who he was because she wanted the throne. She burned anyone who went against her, so what do you think was the implication if he didn't do what she wanted? He'd be a traitor then wouldn't he, and she already hated his sisters.
Then, she went and razed a city and he killed her. Which you used in YOUR argument. Clearly this wasn't a healthy relationship.
Jon Snow & Daenerys Targaryen // Cersei Lannister & Euron Greyjoy
8x04: “The Last of the Starks”
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