just4replyingbasically

[just4replyingbasically]

thank you for your thoughts!! no need to apologise for writing a lot btw, i can’t exactly judge considering how long my original reblog was 🫡 i haven’t got much to say in response to what you’ve said, but i found it very interesting to read through! while my predominant interest is in the ways its taught by the church and that sort of thing, i also find the more philosophical and subjective side of this topic absolutely fascinating and i really appreciate getting to hear your perspective. i hadn’t really encountered a similar interpretation of alma’s story anywhere previously, it’s a very interesting and unique way of looking at it.

seeing people discussing the concept of hell and how cruel the idea of eternal punishment is like, wow! i know this belief system you would love if not for your knee-jerk reaction against its name

[just4replyingbasically]

thank you for the in depth response!! this is all very informative.

something that’s puzzling me a bit here is that there seem to be a lot of different opinions on what exactly qualifies someone as a son of perdition/deserving of the outer darkness? like you say it’s most likely just referring to religious leaders who turned on god, but then you’ve got stuff like the first diagram, which states apostates will be cast there, which seems crappy to me. ofc that diagram is probably not the most reliable of sources, since reverse image search mainly turned up people posting it as a joke, but i did find this, also on the lds website, which seems to also imply that leaving the church will result in being sentenced to the outer darkness after the resurrection

(source: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/33-kingdoms-of-glory-and-perdition?lang=eng)

i mean by all means it’s better than the common “any sinning will get you sent to hell unless you repent, etc” kind of stuff that you see a lot in (evangelical especially) christian denominations, but like… isn’t it still a threat of eternal punishment? i don’t know. is it common in the church for it to be taught that apostasy means you have to go to the outer darkness or is that more of a fringe belief in specific extremist circles? i feel like everyone has slightly different opinions on what counts to make you a son of perdition 😭 this specific thing with apostasy is what’s really getting to me because it seems like something that could really easily be taken advantage of for harm, if that makes sense

it feels a bit antithetical to the idea of heaven/the kingdoms of glory being promised to everyone by default, no matter what — i get the concept that in theory it’s very disrespectful to turn your back on god after following him, but… surely it would make more sense for it to be an action deserving of the telestial kingdom at worst? it doesn’t seem fair to me that leaving the religion could (possibly) damn you to eternal torment.

one last thing: even if the outer darkness was only for religious leaders and that kind of person, i’d still be against it — i don’t really think anyone should be under threat of being made to suffer eternally.

ok thats all i dont want to get too wordy,, thank you again for responding! i appreciate the explanations 🙏

seeing people discussing the concept of hell and how cruel the idea of eternal punishment is like, wow! i know this belief system you would love if not for your knee-jerk reaction against its name

[just4replyingbasically]

interesting! i won’t lie, i’m not huge on the idea of nebulous eternal punishment for the specific niche of people who turned away from god in a sons-of-perdition-y way either, but i can see how it would be quite an ambiguous topic. personally i would’ve thought that the parts in the doctrines & covenants and scriptures that mention “never-ending torment” and the like would mean its certain, but then again i don’t *really* know how things work in regards to how ‘real’ things are considered to be based off of where they’re written and stuff.

it’s good that mormonism doesn’t utilise the threat of hell and endless punishment in the same way a lot of christian denominations do though, i admit. that’s a positive. but also i find it interesting that you said the closest thing to hell in mormon theology is earth and after death things will be better — obviously that’s a subjective thing not doctrinal fact or anything, but it seems a bit odd to me? idk, it reminds me of the whole persecution -> final days -> paradise narrative that the jehovah’s witnesses preach. i could just be seeing similarities where there aren’t any though…

anyways, thank you for taking the time to respond! much appreciated :)

seeing people discussing the concept of hell and how cruel the idea of eternal punishment is like, wow! i know this belief system you would love if not for your knee-jerk reaction against its name

[just4replyingbasically]

? forgive me if i’m confused here, i’m not mormon so i realise i might not have the full understanding of how it all works, but seeing this post inspired me to look into what the lds church says about eternal punishment, hell and the afterlife, and from what i could find on the lds website, eternal punishment does exist in mormonism?

(sources: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2016/06/what-do-we-know-about-life-after-death?lang=eng , https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/hell?lang=eng)

i can see that the telestial kingdom isn’t the same as hell, since D&C 19:5-20 explain that the ‘endless/eternal punishment’ described in the bible is not literally endless but rather is god’s punishment, because god is eternal. and also many church speakers have said that punishment for sinning is not eternal and only goes on until you repent. however there is still a clear distinction between where the ‘best’ followers of christ will go after death and after the spirit world, where the not-so-great followers of christ & ‘late’ (spirit world) converts will go, and where the sinners (so to speak) will go. and even in the spirit world there appears to be a distinction — not hell by any means, but still:

(source: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2016/06/what-do-we-know-about-life-after-death?lang=eng)

of course from all that it seems like you’re right and there isn’t eternal damnation in mormonism — but then there’s the whole thing with the sons of perdition, which is throwing me off a bit.

(source: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/sons-of-perdition?lang=eng#title1)

it says pretty clearly here that it is possible to be sentenced to eternal torment with no chance of repenting. it’s just less acknowledged because those who are sent there are called the sons of perdition and treated like a separate group of people rather than anyone. like to me this seems like the lds church teaches that there is no eternal punishment, except for when theres an exception. like this is what i found in an article on the church website:

(source: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/inspiration/modern-revelation-helps-us-understand-the-gospel-better-than-ever-before?lang=eng)

serious question, how does all of this factor in to the general perception of ‘hell’ in lds communities? is this a known thing or something only really believed by certain people? i’m honestly confused here because to me it does seem like endless punishment is a thing in mormonism, but i realise i don’t exactly have the personal experience to say that for sure. i hope this reblog hasnt come off as rude in any manner,, thanks for reading all this way!

seeing people discussing the concept of hell and how cruel the idea of eternal punishment is like, wow! i know this belief system you would love if not for your knee-jerk reaction against its name