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[kalternativa]

Tumblr Top Ships Bracket - Round 3

This poll is a celebration of fandom and fandom history; we're aware that there are certain issues with many of the listed pairings and sources, but they are a part of that history. Please do not take this as an endorsement, and refrain from harassment.

[kalternativa]

As a black woman living in an extremely racist, homophobic, and misogynistic country, I agree with you 100,000%.

Sorry I've taken so long to address this, I've had a very busy day and didn't have time to finish this post (which I started yesterday).

I'm talking, of course, about the incredibly controversial situation surrounding DD right now. I've gotten some messages about it so I figured I'd give my thoughts in a bigger post so that I don't have to keep repeating myself.

(CW: racism, spoilers FPU)

I know that by now most people are aware of the situation, but I'm going to start from square one for those who are just catching up on the topic.

There is a scene in Formed Police Unit where Chinese UN peacekeeping troops need to rescue a group of citizens who are surrounded by terrorists. In order to accomplish this they disguise themselves as people from the community. This being Africa, the troops were disguised using blackface.

Yes, I am saying that DD and his castmates appear in the film in blackface.

I am not going to post a picture of that here. It's just something I can't post on my blog. I understand that many of you will want to see for yourself so I'll link a clip of the scene, which was posted on Weibo. Please be aware before clicking - this is full-on blackface. Always take care of yourselves, and if you think it might be upsetting to you don't click. You don't need to see it to be a 'good fan'.

Background

For those who may not know, this movie was filmed years ago, in 2021. During those years I have seen many anti attacks against DD, claiming that he is racist and has worn blackface. Here's the photo that was circulating back then.

At the time I thought the makeup that he was wearing was likely anti-reflective black paint or camouflage paint such as is used by snipers (which he played in the film). I assumed that he was wearing his own hoodie over part of a military costume, because he was wearing a cammo shirt and what might have been combat trousers.

I was certainly not expecting full-on blackface from this movie.

There's no getting around it - this is extremely difficult to look at.

Blackface is widely viewed as offensive and racist. It shouldn't be hard to understand why. Putting on another person's ethnicity like a costume is deeply insensitive, particularly when you consider that BIPOC (black, indigenous, and other people of color) are so frequently targeted, exploited and marginalized. For those in positions of privilege and power to put on the appearance of the people who they oppress and exploit... it's just shocking and awful.

Blackface is most frequently talked about in an American context, but it's actually a problem globally - including in China. More on all that here.

The film

I have not actually seen the film, so I don't know much about the context beyond what is being discussed in the fandom. As I said earlier, in the film a group of UN police officers need to infiltrate an area in the community and take on disguises in order to do so.

In promotional media this film is being presented as based on true stories from real missions*. It seems the situation in question really happened on a Chinese peacekeeping mission, and the UN troops disguised themselves as black citizens in order to infiltrate and extract the endangered captives.

*I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on this because it doesn't change how I feel it should have been handled.

This is important context that is being conveniently left out of much of the backlash about this situation. People are outright claiming that DD plays a black person in the movie - that he wore blackface to perform a role that a black actor could have played. This simply isn't true, and people making these claims are antis and liars. There's simply no excuse for not knowing the full context.

Having said that, I don't really think it matters how it ended up in the film. I do not think there is such a thing as a palatable or appropriate use of blackface. In this day and age it is nearly universally understood to be racist, and it's extremely controversial.

I can understand if they were trying to be accurate to the mission that they were portraying, but surely there are other ways they could have accomplished this scene (perhaps with the clothing but not the blackface). 'Historical accuracy' isn't as important as cultural sensitivity, not by any stretch of the imagination. In the interest of respecting audiences they could have adapted the scene to make the use of blackface unnecessary.

I really see no excuse for anything like this in 2024.

Audience reactions

Chinese sensibilities around these topics are very different from what we are used to in the West.

According to fan repos audiences initially didn't recognize any of the actors, and once it became apparent that they were in disguise, laughter erupted around the room. In fact, most fans are laughing a lot at the photos and video even on social media (although some Chinese netizens have been upset by it and have voiced complaints to various stakeholders).

It is also being widely discussed on Chinese social media as an exciting scene of heroism in the film.

I feel the need to point out that the laughter and mockery is a huge part of the harm, here. As if it's not bad enough that these actors are performing in blackface and presenting a perversion of black ethnicity, it also becomes an opportunity for audiences to mock and disrespect black people. It's become an opportunity for social media to be filled with racist jokes and mockery.

Roadshow statements

There have been some clips circulating of PR and roadshow moments with black cast members and some black audience members who have spoken up in support of the film and to thank the cast and crew for telling the story. Here's one example.

International fans have been dismissing those statements as ignorant or coerced, which I think is offensive and deeply fucked up. There's no planet on which I'm going to - with a totally straight face - say that a black person's response to the movie is not legitimate just because it doesn't comport with my own view.

This is a complex issue and there are inevitably going to be a lot of different perspectives. I hope people won't exacerbate the problem by supplanting black voices on this issue with their own, no matter what's being said. If there's any manipulation going on, let's assume it was in their choosing supportive black figures to speak for the film rather than claim that the black spokespeople are insincere.

China has a lot of issues with racism, there's no doubt about it. It's a huge part of why so many people try to whiten their skin, or why they mock each other when their skin gets tanned/darker. There is a lot of sinister, fucked up stuff going on in China around race - both in the country and in their dealings with other countries.

But we can't claim to speak for black people in China, particularly when they are speaking for themselves! I would hope this is extremely obvious!

Where's DD in all this?

It's understandable that bystanders will react to what they're seeing and might immediately deem it unacceptable - and DD along with it. Their reactions are valid, but as fans I hope that we can look at him with a bit more empathy. I hope that we can take a moment to try to see things from his perspective.

DD has been interested in and an avid fan of black culture since he was a small child. We've all seen how much he immerses himself in hip hop, street dance and the accompanying music and fashion. And yes, he's been accused of cultural appropriation in the past for wearing locs and durags.

However, I think fans need a bit of perspective here to get a sense of where DD might be coming from. Here's a guy who loves black culture, who has close friends who are black, who regularly works with black artists and who supports black artists, in a culture where racism against black people is prevalent and often extreme.

I think DD would probably be amazed to hear the accusations of racism against him. He likely has very few people in his orbit who are anywhere near as supportive of or as closely connected to black people as he is. He likely stands out in his circle as being particularly into black culture and connected with black artists, and probably regularly faces ignorant questions or digs from people around him about his close association with black artists and culture.

Not just because of racism alone, but also due to the racist parallels the government tends to draw between black culture, street dance, hip hop, etc. and criminality/moral degradation*. It's likely that ignorant people in his orbit have expressed concern or wariness toward him because of these associations.

*That is, until breakdancing became an Olympic sport, then they were suddenly onboard with some of it.

I'm not saying that he doesn't have a lot of learning to do (and if this situation becomes what I think it might become, he'll have a big opportunity to do so), I'm just saying that his ignorance isn't mean-spirited. He's coming at this from a totally different angle than any of us are, and he is immersed in a totally different cultural perspective than our own. In his world, his interest likely makes him a bit of an anomaly.

So those painting him as a horrible racist... it's just not how I see it.

The element of choice

I've heard many people say that DD 'didn't have any choice' about this role, that turning it down would not have been an option or that he would be under some kind of threat if he didn't take this role. I don't agree with that characterization of things. I don't think it's quite as 'gun to the head' as a lot of fans paint it.

I think it's more likely that he simply didn't realize that the role would involve blackface when he accepted it, or that he thought that blackface in this context - to infiltrate a terrorist cell and save civilians - would be fine. We don't need to depict China as forcibly compelling actors to take unwanted roles if we want to make sense of this. There are simpler, more logical explanations.

DD wouldn't have been the one deciding how to depict the scene - he didn't have that power in 2021 - but I also doubt he would have had a major problem with it given everything we know.

We must overcome our Western tendency to see things only from our own perspective. This has a totally different cultural context in China, and the voices we listen to about it should not be issuing exclusively from white faces that are not at ground zero of this situation.

Final thoughts

This film has had me worried from day one. I think most people have been expecting it to be full of offensive portrayals and propagandistic fuckery. There are so many ways in which a Chinese film about the UN is potentially a sticky, tricky mess. This blackface thing is likely just one problem on a towering pile of problems.

However, I'm not going to sugarcoat this - this has the potential to be a real shitshow for DD, and I am concerned. Especially if this film gets an international release.

We need to brace ourselves, because I don't think this is going to just disappear. DD has endorsements with international brands, and this could definitely cause backlash for those brands unless the issue is addressed and the scenes removed. There's no planet on which brands like Chanel and Lacoste can afford to have one of their spokespeople plastered everywhere in blackface.

If this film gets an international release and those scenes are left intact, it's possible he will lose some brands.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that, but let's face it - things like this have consequences, and that's why it's so important for producers and artists to be sensitive about what they're portraying.

While I think there's some endorsement risk here for DD, and the potential loss of some international fans, I want to be clear about one thing: I don't think this will threaten his career overall. In China this just isn't an issue in the way it is internationally.

I do hope the film team addresses this issue in some way, ideally by removing the scenes. They just finished doing a massive edit to remove ZZH from the film, surely they can handle something like this. But let's not hold our breath...

Everyone has the right to make up their minds about DD. As I've often said, being a turtle isn't for the faint of heart. That's not just because turtles are frequent targets for bullies, or because we have to constantly live with uncertainty and doubt.

Being an international turtle also isn't for the faint of heart because there are a lot of cultural and political minefields to navigate, and many ideological differences to adapt to. There's a huge learning curve and a lot of unknowns, and turtles who want to survive have to make peace with the fact that we and the boys are from different worlds in many ways. We may never know where they really stand on issues that are important to us.

However, in this case I feel confident that I know where DD's heart is on this issue. He simply doesn't hold hatred, disrespect or disdain for black people. Quite the contrary.

I think we'd all just feel a lot better if he had a good grasp on how to be a better ally.

And while we're waiting for that, I think we should put our money where our mouths are and learn more about these issues ourselves, both in China and locally at home. We want DD to be a better person; let's be better people too.

[kalternativa]

4/20/2024 zsww fake rumor post. 💕

Contribute

I wish you all the best these days

✌🏼: I miss you.

👍🏻: you say it like you don’t.

✌🏼:...

👍🏻: OK OK

Like coaxing a child

It's quite obscure. The moonlight tonight is so beautiful.

✌🏼: Happy.

👍🏻: Uh-huh. Happy.

✌🏼: Is that all?

👍🏻: What else could it be, Wls?

✌🏼: What would have happened if I hadn’t met you now?

👍🏻: What do you think?

✌🏼:I don’t know

👍🏻Bo I think we will meet eventually

✌🏼: hmmmm 😊

🤷🏻‍♀️ happy again

IM DYING. this convo whether it’s true or not is so sweet! i think the same way as XZ. even if they didn’t have the chance to have a closer relationship because of CQL, they will eventually meet because of their common friends. or maybe a project or event where they could have been introduced and hit it off. there is no way these two wouldn’t gravitate towards each other at some point. and OP’s use of the emoji, is questioning these lovesick fools and what makes them happy. lol. we get it!

✌🏼:When will it be scheduled?

👍🏻: wait a little longer

✌🏼: i want to go now

👍🏻: It's being arranged

✌🏼: You knew all along.

👍🏻: Yeah, yeah, yeah, what can I do to you?

✌🏼: 👀

2+6=8 and that was the year ( alternative translation is that’s the year )

cpfs are guessing what year this is 2&6, is this 2026? but there is an 8, 2028? what’s gonna happen? where are they going? 👁️👄👁️ the next part might explain it:

Someone's directing, someone's acting.

One step at a time, we'll get to the top.

AND THIS IS WHERE WE LOSE OUR MINDS. is this saying what we think it’s saying???? i know this is fake but i am hoping that maybe someday.. they can really work together.

See you next time 🍸

source.

END.

[kalternativa]

a dose of yibotonin - bare faced edition 💕

[kalternativa]

If I can tell a story that spans fifty episodes, with two leads who never speak a word about romance and yet can convince half of the world that that’s what they have;

(the other half hasn’t watched it yet)

If I can make up a rumour that’s spanned three years so far, with two leads who’ve spoken, well, shouted almost every romantic phrase at one another in the least romantic ways possible; if I can re-create those broken phrases that are cliche at times and cringe-worthy at others, if I can make a symphony of them with the cacophony of workplace noises and melodies blasted from screeching mobile speakers, put a note on every bar of that music that the mood is meant — only meant — to be jest and ridicule and sleeve-hitting and rainbow farts; if I can pen that with the least savoury noodles and wontons and crackers in my mouth and yet still manage to convey feelings so buried and exposed at the same time;

If I can do both,

If I can understand both,

Then, maybe, just maybe I can finally say I can write a romance.

*

Today on this side of the Earth, tonight on that side of the Earth, I can’t tell a story like that. I can’t make up a rumour like that.

And so, I listen to a song about stars and while I know it’s just a song about stars and there’re millions of songs like that out there, and while I know the stage on which the song is sung has five stars on its flag and nothing on it is un-scripted, un-supervised, un-authorized,

I still think of them. Of them.

And I still smile, suck on the candy in my mouth and let the song, let the stars on this night’s sky make my day.

[kalternativa]

Here is the music on Spotify if anyone wants it:

it’s not a secret that i’m a ttxs bros fan and i love that show! it was my end of week treat and i knew that no matter how stressful the weekdays were, i have ttxs and wyb to watch and be my sunday reward. wyb had 3 performances for 2023 nye and we knew about the 2 and i was excited for it but that night, my fave would be his duet with dls of the song that never ends. aside from the dls/wyb/wh moment, i think that personally, it was the kind of performance i needed that time. nye stages are expected to be flashy but sometimes what we really need is a heartwarming song to remind us of the past year and the people that we love. it was really special <3

so i’m sharing this clip of dls/wh talking about that stage:

DLS: I remember that Wang Han said something casually before, so I wrote it in the song, but he said that there are some things that cannot be said or forgotten, and cannot be even thought about, because as soon as you touch it, you will feel it, and then the feeling will disappear. going back, I have written this song for more than two years. I originally wanted to make this song my own, and I thank Hunan for allowing us to be on this stage. Later, Wang Yibo and I sang this song live. I used to sing it and it felt so good. I sang and performed, and that night, maybe I felt that Wang Yibo didn’t know that we were going to sing this song because of Wang Han, and we both had the mentality that this song is coming, are you sure we should start singing it, because when we sang it, the feeling was... We will come back a lot. When we were together, we kept talking about whether we should watch Wang Han, because you know, we were afraid that we wouldn't be able to sing when we saw Wang Han, and we would start crying. Then later we found out that Wang Han was watching from below.

How can I say that I feel that sometimes there is a relationship or a piece of work that will always end. When it becomes a song, a paragraph, a poem, a painting, it will always be in our hearts. In this melody, Wang Han and I are slightly different in age. But I feel that my friendship with Wang Han is like a song that can never be finished.

WH: Thank you. In fact, the time gap is not particularly long because it was December 31st and today is only March. Da Zhangwei means a lot to me.Every time, I look forward to him coming, and then I'm so afraid of him coming. I really want to see him but i’m afraid cause i don't know what to say. The two words he says the most are, "Just be happy. Just be happy. You'll be happy." So what I especially want to say is that if he wants me to see him happy, I will see him happy. If one day he wants me to see him unhappy, I just need to use my eyes to see him and my ears to listen to him. Wang Yibo is cold and he is warm. They are my cold and warm life.

THEY ARE SO PRECIOUS 🥹🥹🥹🥹

[kalternativa]

Wang Yibo : excerpts from his Global People Magazine feature December 2020. 📒

Wang Yibo’s busy schedule began in November. He has already entered the filming of the new drama, traveling through the various scenes of the town and Photo studio. Non-stop, is the word to describe Wang Yibo on the day of our interview.

The state of the game couldn't be more appropriate: Get up in the morning, join the group for shooting; keep shooting. By 4 o'clock in the afternoon, rushed to the studio, unloaded the costumes, redoed the styling, and accepted Interview; at 7 o'clock, remove makeup again, do styling again, continue shooting... When the reporter left for the interview, he was still surrounded by lights.

In fact, this is not Wang Yibo's special "day". The so-called "popularity" started in 2018. This rhythm has become his "everyday”. Few artists of the same age have so many identities like him, singers, actorand professional motorcycle racer.The costumes in the crew, the performance costumes on the show, the racing suits during the competition, The clothes in the interview...he has to change a lot of clothes and do a lot of work every day. It has become "Wang Yibo" in different forms.

Almost every reporter who interviewed him would ask him: "Are you tired?"

He always replied calmly: "Not tired, it's okay." Then this topic is over. It's not entirely because he talks less, but he really feels "okay",

The interview mentioned a lot of questions about whether it’s tiring or not, whether it’s suffering, or whether it’s painful or not. He always tried to think about it, and then gave a negative answer.

He tells you with his eyes: these are all normal experiences, not worth complaining.

Wang Yibo has the deepest impression this year. It's the police uniform, which he wore when filming the TV series "Being A Hero". This is the first time he starred in a criminal investigation drama, and also the first time he put on a police uniform.

As a film and television work focusing on anti-drug police,It has complicated story lines, gun battles, undercover agents, secret battles...Chen Yu, an anti-drug policeman played by Wang Yibo, needs to stand firm in the dark and desperate situation.

This is Wang Yibo's first in-depth understanding of the police class of anti-drug police. Before filming, he had already watched the relevant documentary once and learned how to hold a gun and use a gun. They also visited some anti-drug police officers on the spot.

"Because I have been observing on the front line, I can deeply feel the anti-drug police. It’s state of high tension. It is very hard and dangerous. I realized the greatness of this police class. "Wang Yibo said.

And this state of tension also runs through the filming of the whole show to its finale.Director Fu Dongyu is a veteran of this kind of subject matter. Although "BAH" is a criminal investigation drama, the entire crew is in A very quiet creative state.

On his birthday, the director arranged a celebration. "Since emotions were brewing from the beginning, and when shooting,(..)

I feel like I’ve never cried like this since I started shooting. I cried out my feelings. After the filming of this scene, I suddenly got a sigh of relief.”

From trainee to actor

He has a typical and has slight different "Idol Birth Road". He has a solid foundation in stage performance. In his words, there are many ways to realize self-worth. All paths require the purest wants and purest pursuits.

In Wang Yibo's memories, the two words that impressed the most from his childhood—- It is independence, and the second is dance. Because his parents are busy at work, he has been in elementary school for five years.

"When I was young, I learned Breaking requires stretching, It hurts, but I never cried. At that time, I felt that dancing was my thing: It's a relaxing way, I really enjoy the process of immersing in music. "

In 2000, Wang Yibo came to Beijing for the first time. People come and go in Beijing West Railway Station in winter, which also opened up his position as a professional. The prologue to the life of a professional artist. After signing the contract, his parents stayed with him for two days before rushing back to his hometown in Luoyang and moving to a dormitory, tidy up the room, have a light meal, the three of them went on separate ways. For more than 3 years, Wang Yibo studied and trained abroad and lived in a foreign land.

"What is the hardest thing about being in a foreign country at such a young age?"

"I don't think there is anything difficult, it's all okay. Tired is for sure, Because I train every day, but I don’t think about many other things. "

But the road to popularity still seems to be long. What really made him walk into the sight of the public, was joining "Day Day Up", in the dormant stage of his career.

"Day Day Up" is a very good opportunity,I have met many outstanding people from all walks of life that I don't usually have access to. "

On the other hand, that was also the stage when Wang Yibo sought a personal breakthrough. Wang Yibo can only ask other seniors for advice, Wang Han joked: "Yibo is my biggest baggage."

Gradually, Wang Yibo realized that the real "use" of oneself does not mean that he should be on the stage. “I found that I don't really need to talk, those brothers can all say, I should have a new role.” In the show, Wang Yibo became the dancer in charge, acting in charge, and occasionally also serving as a Korean translator. In two years, a brand-new Wang Yibo was created.

The "Boom" of "Chen Qing Ling" made Wang Yibo popular and famous. In A program recording, Wang Han asked him what exactly did such "fire" bring? Da Zhangwei said more bluntly: "Wang YiBo has achieved the state that all artists yearn for. "

He bowed his head and thought for a long time, and said: "There are good and bad." The good is obvious. It is easy to see that he has become a top artist, and his influence is different from the past, every move becomwsthe focus, and the script and resources are never interrupted. But all this makes him more moves with caution and calmness, he frankly told the reporter of "Universal People": " there is more and more attention, many eyes are on you. For you, you must do better and better. I won't be big by myself. there are psychological fluctuations. I still do the same things as before, continue to host and continue filming. " The louder the outside voice, the quieter the inner voice, this is his present philosophy of life. Fortunately, he still has many outlets, such as dancing, skateboarding, and racing.

[kalternativa]

Hi rainbowsky! I'm a new-ish (autumn 2023) Yizhan fan - it's been so much fun to explore and read everything available, your blog included! I really enjoy your opinions and insights. I have a question and a request. Question: When CQL first started airing, what were people saying about the relationship between WWX and LZ in the show, and about the actors playing them? Did the CP start right away? Request: Then later on, when the BTS started appearing (when was that - after the show finished airing, right?), what were people saying about the real interactions between the two actors? Were people shocked? Amazed? Even more curious? I can imagine social media was on fire! But I'd like to hear from someone who "lived" through it in real time. Please give me a description of what it was like - especially what your thoughts and feeling were as you saw it happening. I wish I could have been there! Thank you!

Hi Blbrave! Thanks so much, I'm glad you're enjoying my blog!

This is all a very, very long time ago, but I'll do my best to share what I can remember.

Actually, the CP started before the show began airing. The supertopics were opened during filming in 2018. I think this was inevitable, given that the series is based on a BL story. Of course fans of the novel will go into all of this with an eye toward the two characters and, by extension, GG and DD.

Similarly, as the show was airing of course there were a large number of viewers who knew it was a BL and viewed it as a BL at that time, even though it was being billed as a martial brotherhood series. There was a lot of analysis from fans trying to spot various ways that the production team managed to get around censorship and signal the queer romance between WWX and LWJ.

Others have done far better, more comprehensive analysis of all that than I could ever do, but it's so long ago I don't know where those posts might have gone. Some of this was discussed in my post about queerbaiting, so you can look there for more info.

As I said in that post, one of their smartest ways of highlighting the queer relationship was to downplay romance between the straight characters. We never see a straight couple doing something that we don’t also see LWJ and WWX doing. The wedding happens off camera, yet we see LWJ and WWX do their bows on camera. There’s never a kiss or any kind of PDA between straight characters, yet we see LWJ and WWX in each other’s arms throughout the series.

We got a gay kiss:

We got gay sex:

There was also the headband repeatedly being described as the domain of only family and spouses, and the various ways they connected it with WWX. WWX grabbing it when he was possessing the paperman, and also at one point being tied to LWJ by the wrist with the headband - all of this signalling that WWX was a spousal figure for LWJ.

There was the drunk scene with LWJ giving WWX chickens (a wedding tradition in China).

And many more examples I won't get into.

There were many of those types of things in the series, and they were discussed enthusiastically at the time. However, I don't think there were many bystanders who made those connections. It was primarily fans of the books/show (i.e. those who appreciated it as a BL story and not as a bromance/friendship story) who saw and discussed those hints.

I know the idea that anyone could be so oblivious to the gay subtext throughout the story that they miss the queerness entirely is hard to get one's head around, but straight viewers usually just see WWX and LWJ as best friends and sworn martial brothers. The show could never have been made or aired if that wasn't the case.

In fact, newer fans might not be aware that there was a lot of controversy during filming because of leaked early attempts to create a straight romance between Wei Wuxian and Wen Qing. Some relationship-building scenes between them were filmed, and at one point in the BTS GG is heard complaining about the straight romance and saying that all those scenes should be deleted.

In the production team's defense, there was doubt at the time about whether the show could air given its source material as a BL novel. They likely had investors and backers pressuring them to make sure that the story was unambiguously straight.

Fans of the novel made a massive uproar about it, threatening to boycott the series. The backlash was so extreme that it became a bigger threat to the success of the show, and the straight romance was killed. We all owe a lot to those agitators! 😅

The BTS

The BTS clips were first discussed in an Untamed press conference (that section of the interview starts at around 36:30). The producer said that in the future some of the behind-the-scenes moments would be shared. GG and DD exchanged a glance and looked extremely uncomfortable with it.

A lot of turtles find that clip funny, and laugh about what GG and DD might 'have to hide', but I have never understood how fans can find GG and DD's discomfort funny.

It might surprise some newer turtles to hear that there were moments where GG and DD appeared to be uncomfortable with the BTS, but there were.

Another moment happened in an interview where GG and DD were asked to explain a BTS scene of the two of them in the boat, where GG is lying in DD's lap. DD turns to the interviewer with a shocked and displeased look on his face and says, "They released this?"

There were other moments as well, but I haven't kept a comprehensive record of all that. This happened long before I clued in on how quickly clips can disappear in this fandom.

I believe that it is totally normal to have mixed feelings about the BTS, and I believe GG and DD are no exception to that. No doubt they enjoy some of the clips and feel uncomfortable about some of them, just like many turtles (myself included).

There were official BTS clips released during promo, but the unofficial BTS clips didn't come until later. I talked in more detail about the unofficial BTS and how they came to be released here.

The unofficial clips began being released by fansites in the fall of 2020. It would be hard to overstate how different the atmosphere around them was to what it is now. Now it's quite common to find BTS clips all over the place, both in C-social media and on international sites like YouTube and Instagram.

However, back in 2020 they were extremely hard to get ahold of, and sharing them outside of where they were initially released was strictly forbidden and frowned upon by fans. In fact, if you dig back through my 2020 posts I'm sure you'll find many posts where I admonish people not to share the BTS clips, and where I bitch about people sharing them without authorization. I also answered a lot of asks about these issues at the time (just one example).

Times have changed a lot, and now everyone is sharing them all very freely without any concerns.

The situation was a lot different back then:

GG and DD had gained a tremendous amount of popularity from the show, but their reputations and careers were not yet fully established and secure.

227 was still an active concern that was still making news and still impacting GG's life directly. He had not yet recovered from any of it and was still mostly lying low. He was constantly being attacked and antis were constantly out to get him.

The Untamed was still fresh and current, and being discussed regularly in the media. Because filming was still fairly recent, what happened during filming would still run the risk of impacting GG and DD's lives and careers.

Fans were coming under very close scrutiny because of 227 and other fandom-related scandals. The government was starting to crack down heavily on fandom culture.

This was all uncharted territory. No one knew how the BTS might be received, or how it might impact GG and DD. Fans were very freaked out about the possibility of anything compromising getting leaked and harming the boys.

No doubt fansites were also worried about how fans might respond to some of the releases, and wanted to ensure they didn't upset or anger fans, or stir up more excitement than could be safely contained within the fandom.

All of this contributed to a climate of extreme caution and secrecy around the release of BTS clips.

We never knew when one might be released, and when they were released they were typically only put online for a few minutes, then deleted. This was all done in an effort to limit the exposure of these clips primarily to turtles who have GGDD's best interests in mind.

The clips were heavily watermarked and overlaid with visual and audio curses that 'reuploaders must die!' ('banyun biss', which I'm sure most of you have encountered in some of the clips you've seen).

Early clips were heavily watermarked.

Those who missed out were out of luck. It was extremely socially unacceptable to re-share clips once they'd been deleted. Those who missed out would have to rely on recaps and transcripts from those who had seen the clips. Fans took to staying up all hours watching and waiting for a release.

Back in those days people tried to save every clip they could, hoarding them greedily. Turtles' phones were filling up with large video files. It's funny to think about now, because the clips are everywhere and so easy to find these days, but back then it was a whole Thing.

The initial releases were sporadic and quite tame as fansites dipped their toes in the water of how all this would be received. Gradually over time clips became more frequent and stayed up longer, and some of the more salacious stuff began being released. Those clips were often accompanied by hilarious intro images.

(For those who don't get it, it's the PornHub logo).

Of course all of the clips were heavily discussed as they came out, and a clearer picture of GG and DD's relationship and of their experience of filming began to take shape over time. Some of the fake rumors (such as the 49 fake candies and the CPN that GG designed a racing suit for DD) were gradually proved to be true as these clips were released. However, that was mostly confined to fandom circles.

There were occasionally times when these clips or their content would cross over into the mainstream and start trending on Weibo. In many of those cases, the hotsearches would be bought and pushed by antis of GG and DD who want to see them cancelled. At those times turtles would jump into action to wash those topics and replace them with mundane, unrelated content.

There were fan theories and fake rumors about GG and DD's reaction to the clips. Sometimes when new clips were released GG and DD would be seen online and turtles assumed they were watching them. Of course, considering the clips featured them, it's highly likely that they did eagerly await releases just like the rest of us.

I suspect that it was likely a mixed bag for them. Some clips might have really stressed them out either upon initial release or after reactions began to emerge, while others likely made them laugh and feel nostalgic about filming.

A large percentage of BXG light banners and slogans came directly out of the BTS, some of which you can see GG and DD discussing in LRLG rumors.

Dumplings, rice noodles, 3+2 biscuits (cr @knivescharade in this post), discussed in this LRLG rumor.

There were definitely a few scandals and close calls that came out of the unofficial BTS, and solos and antis frequently tried to use them against GG and DD and tried to spin negative narratives about their relationship based using disingenuous takes and edits of them (they still do to this day).

For example, the clip where GG tells DD that he prefers a natural look to idol makeup was used against GG at the time, and antis tried to make it seem like GG was homophobic and that GG was against men wearing makeup. Some of the clips where they were playfighting or bickering were used to try to create a narrative that they hated each other. That kind of thing.

BTS and fan service

One of the most common questions I've gotten about the BTS - and I still often get this question - is, "Aren't the BTS just acted out/scripted as fan service to promote the show?"

There are a few reasons people have this question in their minds.

Solos #1 narrative about GGDD is that their CP was just for the show and the BTS was all fan service, and nothing about their relationship is real. They push this claim very aggressively on social media anytime GGDD or The Untamed is discussed, and new fans will almost always encounter those claims in this way.

CP fan service is a normal part of how dramas are promoted, so people familiar with Asian dramas will often immediately jump to that assumption about GG and DD and about the BTS.

Heteronormativity leads many people to immediately dismiss the possibility of a gay relationship, which leads them to try to come up with other explanations for those clips.

People naturally have a hard time believing what they're seeing with some of those clips. Some of it is pretty jaw-dropping and it's understandable that some people will be skeptical.

However, there are a lot of really good reasons why these clips are obviously not fan service.

For one thing, the show was billed as a martial brotherhood, not as a romance. Some of the official BTS clearly did try to appeal to CP and MDZS fans and could be counted as fan service, but those weren't even the ones BXG are most excited about. (There is a playlist of some of the official BTS clips here).

The most exciting stuff was never released during promo, and almost none of it is overtly romantic. A lot of it is really crude and totally unreleasable as promo. GG and DD are lewd, crude and often rude in ways that only two people who are really close could ever get away with. In many cases it's the casual way GG and DD constantly cross polite social boundaries with each other that shows their intimacy, rather than anything overtly sweet or romantic.

A lot of it is also totally incomprehensible to regular audiences. You have to be a turtle digging deeply into GGDD to understand the significance of most of it. For example the way GG took care of DD on his birthday, or the way DD constantly bargained and haggled with GG to get him to eat more.

Most importantly, if it was all fan service then why did GG and DD never do any joint CP endorsements? The entire point of doing that type of fan service is to make a buck. Other drama CP - including BL - do this all the time.

And it doesn't make sense that a production that was as low budget as The Untamed could afford to have the two lead actors learn a whole second set of lines and do a whole second performance that never ended up getting released.

And of course, none of that explains why the bulk of the BTS clips ended up in the hands of fans and released years after the show finished airing. A lot of it still has never been released to this day.

I've often joked that if the BTS were scripted they were far more complex, more melodramatic and better written than the drama itself. You just can't come up with this stuff in a writer's room. 😅

Anyway, this post got a bit long but hopefully it gives you a bit more of a picture of what it was all like at the time. Sorry, I guess I didn't talk much about my own feelings/reactions, but hopefully you can get somewhat of a sense.

Overall it was exciting, but I also had some deep reservations about it all (and got a lot of hate mail for voicing those feelings, too). Keep in mind this wasn't long after 227, so I think it's understandable that I was feeling very wary about everything.

But that's all water under the bridge now. It's been many years, and if the BTS were going to harm GGDD it would have already happened. I think it's all pretty safe territory now.

Edit: some more of my thoughts and feelings at the time:

One of the most exciting things for me about the BTS clips was seeing so many of the fake rumors being proved true. There were a lot of rumors (including the 49 fake candies) that I totally scoffed at when I first heard about them, only to later find via the BTS clips that I had been totally wrong about them and that these things had actually happened, and even crazier things were gradually revealed.

Things were changing pretty rapidly for a while there now that I think about it.

Learning more about their relationship and seeing just how much they looked out for each other was another big one for me. Also the timeline. The BTS really reinforced my belief in The Devil's Timeline (the belief that they got together prior to filming).

But overall that was a very different time in the fandom as well. There were always so many candies coming out, not just BTS clips but things that came out of GG and DD's activities and social media posts. It was a really really busy time in the fandom.

Since then there has been a government crackdown on fandom culture, on the entertainment industry, on LGBTQ etc. in China, plus DD's split with Nike and him having to delete a lot of his GG candy posts from his Weibo account.

Things are so different now, and unfortunately a lot of it for the worse. Being a turtle is not always easy, and I'm sure being GG and DD can't always be easy either. We make it work, but I do sometimes look back wistfully on the freer, more exciting times in the fandom.

More such times could come in the future. We just have to keep moving forward and hope for the best.

[kalternativa]

Wei Wuxian: *talks a lot* *insert long paragraph here* *insert long paragraph there* *insert long paragraph everywhere*

Lan Wangji: Mn.

Meanwhile, in another universe…

Xiao Zhan, accepting an award: *talks a lot* *insert long paragraph here* *insert long paragraph there* *insert long paragraph everywhere*

Wang Yibo, accepting an award: Thank u bye.

[Kidding aside, Xiao Zhan’s speech was lovely.]

Xiao Zhan’s Speech | Wang Yibo’s speech

Video Source

[kalternativa]

I don't usually do Yizhan piece but yeah, I'm a 🐢

[kalternativa]

GG rare/early performances

I was thinking about this song (which I haven't been able to get out of my head for two days straight). I remember seeing it here a year or two ago and not really liking the style, but I guess my perspective has changed because now I love it.

And it made me think about all the other songs GG's done that a lot of fans might not have heard/seen. So I've pulled together a few YT video compilations of rare performances from his younger days under the cut.

[kalternativa]

Xiao Zhan & his thoughts on Love. 🤍

Q: When you are in a relationship, what do you think is most important?

🐰 : Trust, respect, and honesty.

Q: In love, how would you give each other a sense of security?

🐰 : I think the sense of security is not created, but through action. Once you choose this relationship, then of course believe it. Trust is very important.

Q: Can you accept long-distance relationships?

🐰 : It is acceptable. Distance produces beauty. Only after a long period of separation can we understand how happy it is to be together and cherish each other more.

Q: What do you think is the best state between couples?

🐰 : I don't need to be affectionate all day long. I am relaxed and practical around her , and I can show my truest side.

Q: Do you choose what you love or the one who loves you?

🐰 : I will choose the one I love.

[kalternativa]

their ordinary life. 🏠

i am referencing this post which was allegedly shared in 2021. i like how it’s written and the cpn clues inserted, then making a whole story out of it. a reason why most of us love lrg and other rumor anecdotes is because it’s simple and shows what their day to day life is like. tho they are celebrities with extraordinarily busy lives, the thought of them just being zz and bobo is comforting and sweet. it may be confusing cause there are parts where they are both referenced as they. and then it will switch to “i” as if in the person’s first person pov.

all of this is fake & fanfiction…

they should have a cat and a dog. everyone knows the cat's name is Tao, the dog’s name also matches the cat very well, it’s called Lizi. it’s a puppy ZZ bought it on impulse, but in the end I had to give it to my mother in Chongqing to deal with the aftermath. they have a home in Beijing, with a room full of helmets and musical instruments. there is also a room equipped with a projector, with warm and artistic decoration. when the two people are tired, they can lie here and watch movies together. there is also a big LCD TV, two people playing games to decide the outcome and doing housework.

the kitchen should be well-equipped, but the storage of materials is not alot, both of them are busy and have little time to cook, but there should be someone that makes trouble while the other person is cooking, and the other person will teach. when that person was making hand cakes, he had a headache several times and wanted to curse.

the room they sleep in, well, the bedding must be of high quality, it must be very comfortable and considerate for two people who both have the habit of sleeping naked. someone should install a night light in the toilet so that people who are afraid of the dark can get up in the middle of the night. there will be lights as soon as the toilet is near. there should be a lot of things on the bedside, eye drops, stomach-protecting tablets, Ryukakusan, cough cough... In short, both of them takes good care of your body! there will be a light fragrance in the room. they are all people who love cleanliness, maybe it’s also due to the scented candles.

there is a huge closet, which could have been used as a styling area in the beginning. one will often buy several pieces at a time and wrap them up. the other will also complain that one person loves shopping so much that he is not frugal and knows how to organize his clothes regularly. it was painful to pick out an old model to wear, and taught another person: "See, this is okay. As for clothes, save money and don’t buy so much. You still have a mortgage. ” another smiled and didn’t say anything. clothes that smell like them over time are familiar and reassuring, as if they are by each other’s side. In this way, they give each other company. Sometimes the trip is too urgent and I don’t pay much attention. both people will pack the wrong clothes into their suitcases. there should also be a small gym, where two actors and teachers can work hard. One person is envious of another's eight-pack abs, and the other possesses someone's waist (don't ask me why I know it's possible because I am a barbell. )

both of them have been doing more and more endorsements, and they have a lot of products at home. when the two brothers are in a good mood, they take one out and play with it, jokingly calling it "opening a blind box." most of the time, they kept sending them to my family, and the family group was noisy.

the two of them still can't stay at home most of the time and are always on the road. yes, headphones are a common item. why? because they are used for making phone calls and watching videos and to chat online. I took out my mobile phone to complain after getting off work. i quickly called to tell him that I miss you. people’s true emotions finally have a safe and secure place. how good is this, just wanting someone who can always listen to me in my life. you act coquettishly. you can complain and cry.

i also surfed the Internet, but I just browsed casually, after all, it was all the same rainbow fart, I want to take some time to listen to that person blowing it to me. sometimes it’s annoying to see fans quarreling. i used my account number to tell them to stop arguing, but it didn’t work. just switch to my other account and fight bravely with heizi ( antis ) and lose. until the account was suspended and blocked, then I took screenshots and felt aggrieved. he said, "Baby, look at me, I've lost another number by helping you.". The other person was amused, and he was no longer troubled by the remarks.

the other side is also keen on surfing and secretly saves a lot of emoticons, all of which are like pigs. regarding this, after I sent it, I laughed so hard that I hit the table and couldn’t stop having fun. hey, of course you can hear the voice of someone screaming on the phone: "Why does it have to be a pig?" "I'm a leopard! Not a pig! You What a stinky rabbit!”

they will take care of eating, taking medicine, drinking water, and taking care of each other when they are sick. they will take good care of each other and care for each other. if you are disobedient, it will be known immediately, and you will be punished, and then you will obey because I want to live a long with the other person. if possible, I hope it will be the same in my next life.

he will also get jealous, lose his temper and act awkward. Alas, as an actor, he is still in the entertainment industry. what can I do? Buy gifts, buy food, make phone calls. if you want to talk, send WeChat, and send some updates and stuck points that fans can’t understand.

In the end, I still couldn't coax him, so I could only study how to fight authentically and run to see the other party. the time is very short, and you may only be able to stay in the car, room, or corner. i left after an hour or two, my temper was gone, and I kept looking at the other person. laugh, give a hug, hold hands for a walk, kiss, and talk for a long time. if it's been a long time, your eyes will inevitably turn red when you separate.

“Every time it’s so short, it’s hard to be separated, and I won’t be able to come next time.

“But I miss you.

"...I know, I'll come see you next time."

knowing that there will be an event for two people on the same stage will make them excited for a long time, and they will fall in love at public expense. love, doesn’t it feel good?

no matter what, they won’t understand the meaning of it anyway. meet backstage, eat a meal together, take ugly photos of each other while doing makeup, and fight. let’s sit together and look at our phones and chat about the current situation. the two people at the back looked right at each other when Fang doesn't speak, the staff will consciously go out and leave them alone.

think hard. I miss you even when I walk. I miss you when I sit. kiss the necklace that you bought for me, look at the blue sky and white clouds, draw a picture, then take the archeology test, and look at the other party’s dark history, snap screenshots and make emoticons and throw them over. it’s the happiness that only artists can have when they fall in love, don’t you understand~

regarding the public, the feeling of being watched by millions of people cheering and blessing that summer it’s really good. surrounded by love from all over the world, you will feel that there is nothing better than our happy couple. maybe, one day, wait for the rainbow to come. On that day, I am Lao Wang and he was Lao Xiao. We walked in front of everyone. before, he drew a story about us, told by me since I was 21 years old.

[kalternativa]

Bystander EP now available!

DD's EP is available now on streaming platforms*. The official English title is "Bystander."

YouTube Music

Spotify

Apple/iTunes

*In some regions.

[kalternativa]

#they are my world

source (transl.©) | © Sunny徐孔雀

[kalternativa]

I don't believe in the Devil's Timeline. Something that makes me think that it all started during the recordings was the way they referred to the summer of 2018. The constant reference to "blue sky, white clouds", "windmills", "summer wind/breeze", etc., makes me think that something very impactful happened that summer, something as strong as falling in love. The choice of songs made by GG for the Our Song program, as well as other events in 2019, highlights this even further to me.

I don't know yet if it's true (if anyone wants to wash this, feel free), but this audio was supposedly recorded during Our Song in which GG explains why he chose the song "Summer Breeze" (something that was done with all songs chosen by him). However, watching this episode on the official channel, I saw that there was no the common question about the choice of music, as if this part had been edited/cut. I don't understand Mandarin, but due to the intonation of his and NaYing's voices and the screams from the audience, the translation seemed very real to me. And if it's real, in my opinion, it's totally a statement that he fell in love during a certain summer.

P.S.: Go to YouTube to see the translation. I don't know if it's normal, but the video didn't appear on Tumblr with subtitles.

Overall BTS in Order Summary + Takeaways

Okay, this project was a) impromptu and b) fun and c) biiiggg.

There are some observations and thoughts that didn't quite fit in any one month that I wanted to add on. I also wanted to think through what I take away from this timeline as far as ggdd's relationship. So here's super-duper long post.

Shenanigans on set - professionalism

It's commonly observed that ggdd are a chaotic duo, and the impression you get from watching bts highlights is that they must have been a nightmare on set. If you watch through the bts clips on the daily, though, it's easy to see why gg and dd are well-regarded by people they work with.

Most of their day is endless takes of doing the same scene over and over. They spend a lot of time talking through a scene and their characters. Sometimes making small modifications but usually just giving a scene another go. They're usually doing this in harsh physical and emotional conditions, whether hanging on wires, immersing themselves in cold water, doing fight scenes in thick robes and sweltering heat, or working into the wee hours of the morning. Both gg and dd worked while injured and/or sick.

The moments of chaos are pretty rare and typically not disruptive. They're during moments where they're waiting for the crew to set something up. Sometimes they're egged on by the crew and the director. Overall, they're dedicated professionals who took advantage of slow moments for some fun but were otherwise focused on the show.

Kudos also to the rest of the cast and crew who were similarly dedicated. (Also, how do I get a job as dd's umbrella holder? Where should I send a resume?)

If you go into the bilibili playlist expecting non-stop ggdd shenanigans, you're gonna be disappointed. If, you're, like me, a nerd who finds the meta of filming interesting and doesn't mind sitting through people doing the same thing over and over again, then you're in luck because there's literal hours of that.

The fuzziness of the timeline.

I want to provide some cautions with the timeline. I rely heavily on a cfan-made bilibili playlist whose method I honestly can't understand bc it doesn't translate well through Google. What's more, I made some judgment calls when comparing against other timelines I've found, a cfan-made Weibo timeline, and vic's timeline here on Tumblr. Any of these could be wrong, so don't take this timeline as super-duper solid.

There are times I identify a clip as a widely-known translated clip, and there were also clips that were NOT in the bb playlist but that I tried to place based on some assumptions. I want to break these down.

Type 1

This is simple. These are when there's a clip on the playlist that is identical to a translated clip I've seen, just without the subtitles. This makes up most of them. The chocolate bar hug, the bondage conversation, the jealousy in English clip. As long as the bb playlist date is correct, then the date for these clips should be correct.

Type 2

Much less common. This is when I've seen a longer, translated version of a clip on the bb playlist so I'll include in the timeline what else goes in that clip.

As an example, the bb playlist has the clip of dd pretending to choke gg. I've seen elsewhere that this clip continues past where the bb playlist cuts off to also show gg singing Sam Smith to dd. So I place those both on the same day. These should be as reliable as Type 1

Type 3

These are the most open to error. There are clips that are not in the bb playlist but that have gg and dd in the same costumes, shooting the same scene as playlist clips. In those cases, I make a (big) assumption that they took place on the same day.

As an example, the bb playlist has Cloud Recess era gg and dd in the Cold Springs (not the secret cave but the place where gg makes his sword pee). The playlist does not include the clips of gg injuring his foot, but I've seen those clips and they're shooting the same scenes so the costumes and such are the same. I assume they're all on the same day.

But I could be wrong. Oftentimes, the same scene is reshot weeks later for technical reasons. Some scenes take multiple days to shoot. The script was also changing as they shifted away from het-washing wwx, and they had to reshoot some scenes as a result. The clip of gg injuring his foot could be from some other day when they had to shoot those scenes again for whatever reason.

Likewise with the cloud recess library pretzeling clip. I'm guessing it goes on 8/20, because that's the only day the playlist has clips from those scenes. But that does not mean that 8/20 was the only day cloud recess library scenes were filmed.

The other scene that falls into this type is from June, when gg and dd complain to each other about how few scenes they have together. The clip I've seen (elsewhere) was clearly taken while shooting the scene where LSX and WN run off together, so I've placed it there.

This brings us back to what I explained in April but I really just want to pound on it: we know SOOOO little. Most days, we don't even have an hour's worth of bts footage. There are so many scenes shot that we don't have any insight on. And we don't know what we don't know (and probably never will).

There are some clips that weren't included on the bb playlist that I can't even begin to guess the date for. I've seen the clip of gg saying "delete it" to a wwx/wq scene, but even though I know the costume that gg and dd were wearing, I don't have anything more specific to place it to a date.

I also really wanted to know what the date is on the clip of dd questioning a costume-jiejie about what gg said about him in an interview. No such luck. The most I can do is guess it may be related to the interview in July. The Aug interviews seem way too late for that clip, but who knows? (Honestly, the July interview seems a bit late for that type of clip)

Another clip that I wish I could date: the clip where dd casually mentions how handsome Xue Yang is to prompt gg to give rainbow farts to lwj.

I was also just curious about the WQ scenes in general, so I was disappointed they weren't on the playlist. I've seen some of the original WQ scenes elsewhere (I guess from gg solo playlists on YouTube), and I'm just generally interested in the shift the production team made in response to fan complaints (and maybe to complaints from their stars?).

All this to say, take the timeline as fuzzy. If someone wants to take on the herculean task of tracking down and correcting my errors (and making that super-awesome comprehensive Google sheet), then you have my highest respect (and my sword).

Is the devil's timeline possible? Looking at you, may.

I've been approaching my takeaways from the assumption that they met first on DDU, didn't interact for a year, then properly met again when they ended up on the Untamed. I don't have strong feelings about the Devil's Timeline, honestly, and I wouldn't be too surprised if it's true. But I tend to stick to the documented first meeting timepoint when speculating, just to not compound speculation atop speculation.

But putting that aside, if there anything in the timeline that rejects the Devil's Timeline out of hand? Not really. Some of the harder to explain dates are also hard to explain with the standard timeline (I'll get to those), so the devil's timeline is as likely as anything.

Is there anything that supports the Devil's Timeline?

Well, there are some clips that indicate a committed relationship much earlier than the standard timeline assumes. This may not necessarily mean we're in devil land. It could just mean their relationship moved faster than most people think. But they are notable.

Let's look at 2 clips in May that stand out as odd.

On 5.22, there's a clip attached to a rumor that gg and dd had a fight. The rumor goes that dd left the set early for some reason. In the morning, when gg asked where dd was going, dd said it was none of his business. When he returned, gg gave him the silent treatment. Dd grew increasingly upset about it while gg got snippy about how dd clearly didn't want him to care about him.

The clip this goes with is shot from a distance. There's no real sound, so I'm assuming that somebody did some lip-reading to come up with a transcript (that was then translated to English for the version I've seen). In it, an upset dd tells gg that he never told him (gg) not to care about him (dd).

There's obvious issues when relying on lip-reading for a conversation. Especially in this case, because their mouths are blocked at several points by people bustling around. The most I can reliably say about this clip is that gg does look a little frosty and dd is most definitely upset (like, startlingly upset).

If the rumor and the lip-read are accurate, this type of exchange only really makes sense in the context of some type of serious relationship. This was about a month before the dragon boat festival date.

I don't know enough about the original rumor to even have a guess as to how reliable it is. It's interesting to me, though, and I'm not inclined to dismiss it out of hand. If it's not true, then I wonder what, exactly, dd was so upset over if they're not yet in a relationship.

The other odd clip is the 5.17 clip of gg being jealous of the camera guy.

It's clear that gg felt threatened by the camera guy, but it's ambiguous as to what that implies about their relationship. Jealousy can rear its head within a romantic relationship, of course. But it could also manifest if they're still just friends but gg feels a special claim on dd somehow. Maybe they're in early flirting stages. Maybe gg knows dd has a crush on him, likes it, and feels threatened when dd's attention (which is usually pretty focused on him) is taken by another guy.

Any of these could be the case here. So gg's jealousy doesn't necessarily indicate that gg and dd are an item at that time. But it could.

These 2 clips are definitely interesting in how early they happen, and the earlier we see signs that gg and dd are an item, the more likely the devil's timeline is real.

So yeah. If you're on the devil's side, you got just as much support as anybody else based on this timeline.

Confusing dates

@bzhitstruth and I brought up a couple clips on the timeline that surprised us with their dates. Specifically, the jealousy in English conversation and the "I'm not talking about wwx, I'm talking about xz" moment. Both of these take place in July, while it seemed to me that mid-June would be the latest that gg and dd could get together based on the walk of shame after the dragonboat festival date.

Why is it weird to have these 2 clips a month later?

Well, the jealousy conversation involves them each accusing the other of chatting up other people. DD is specific about having heard gg talking to a girl some days ago whereas gg just accuses dd of having talked to men on WeChat. (I'm putting aside whether dd and gg were chatting up other people bc I'm not incredibly interested in going there. I'm more interested in what it says that they had this discussion). This is a conversation that I would expect to see if they were either not yet in a relationship or if their relationship was brand new and they were bringing up old habits the other had that they feel threatened by.

It reads oddly if they're a month into their relationship.

The other clip is more subjective, but my general impression before doing the timeline was that dd's smooth pickup line there is some early-stage flirtation. Both dd's line and gg's reaction come across as fresh and new, not an interaction one has with a person they've been dating for a month.

These are both Type 1 clips, so as long as the bb playlist is correct, then I'm 100% sure that they're dated correctly.

As to what to make of all this...uh...

"It's complicated" relationship status

Here's a best guess? I'm not committed to this. Just spitballing ideas that may fit the timeline.

I'm also basing this on my experience dating before I got married (I got married when I was 28, so I was still dating when I was gg's age). Of course, I got married around 2010, so the tech and dating landscape was different then. And obviously, I'm an American bisexual woman, not a gay/bi Chinese man. So my experience is probably gonna be a poor fit for gg and dd's experience, is what I'm saying. Take everything with a big ol' grain of salt.

One thing I'm pretty firm on, they had a sexual relationship on or before 6/18. Dd's walk of shame is hard to otherwise explain. There is the possibility that dd did that lazy smell test thing where he didn't have any clean clothes so just wore what he wore yesterday without thinking about it. I knew a looottttt of guys his age that did that (in fairness, I did that sometimes). Course, they were poor college students or burnouts who did not have PAs and staff to do their laundry so...

I'm sticking to it my certainty here. It's not realistic that they started a sexual relationship later than 6/18.

I noted in the May summary post that when dd realized that gg was physically affectionate, he hopped to take advantage of that (not in a predatory way). On 5.4, dd was constantly draping himself all over gg. What if they started having casual sex around this date?

Bear with me, y'all.

Plenty of decent relationships start with casual sex. My marriage began with me intending it to just be FWB (my wife had other intentions and, well, obviously it moved beyond FWB). So let's not do any shaming on this (in other words, I will take it personally). It's a part of modern life. In addition, my understanding is that actors' sex life is oftentimes connected to what they're filming at any given time.

Being friends w/ benefits (FWB) means gg and dd have an intimate connection that we see on set sometimes. On 5.7, dd helps gg practice his dance, for instance. But it also means that they're not on firm romantic footing, even if feelings are creeping in (which they definitely were).

How might this play out? Check out my fanfic outline:

On 5.17, we have gg getting jealous of the camera man. He feels some exclusive claim to dd given their FWB relationship and given dd is clearly nursing a crush on him, and he doesn't like having competition for dd's attention.

On 5.22, they have that fight. I wonder if gg took dd by surprise by pushing the bounds of their relationship to that point. GG, like dd, is feeling more invested in their relationship than a simple FWB requires, and he's getting annoyed when dd doesn't act the same (by going off to lunch without telling him where he's going). DD looks stressed bc while he does want something more with gg, he didn't realize they were at that point, and he's worried he screwed things up before they could develop.

After that point, romance might have started to play more of a role in their interactions as both of them pick up on the fact that the other might want something more as well. On 6.1, gg pulls out the heavy flirting with a kabedon and whispering in dd's ear. DD is clearly into it.

On 6.7, we get the clip where dd seems to ask for a kiss from gg. If they've been having sex since May, this isn't a huge surprise. Their relationship must also be common knowledge on set (they had that 5.22 argument in front of a bunch of crew and XL, all of whom didn't even seem to be paying attention).

On 6.14, they have the frankly obscene Cold Spring Adventures with each other.

Then on 6.18, they go on a date (with director and producer for plausible deniability). Maybe it's the first actual date they have and marks when they officially move from FWB to explicit romance.

On 6.30, there's the scene where jgy monologues while gg wants dd to romantically give up his life for gg (and dd's like, "nah, I'll just use my sword").

Moving a FWB to a romance can be weird and can take some work. Old habits creep in a lot and the fact that things started as FWB can lead to some early relationship insecurity.

On 7.17, dd's a little insensitive when he calls gg stupid after gg injures his foot in the water. GG honestly doesn't seem to notice (he's focused on getting to the shore and looking at his foot), but dd is clearly beating himself up throughout the clip and apologizes multiple times.

On 7.18, we have dd doing his "I'm not talking about wwx, I'm talking about xz" line. Maybe he's going hard, trying to make up for his misstep from yesterday? Given gg's reaction, this is clearly the type of romance he's looking for, so dd pretty much nailed it.

On 7.23 we have the English jealousy conversation. As they started as FWBs, they were probably aware that the other had similar arrangements in the past. That was probably a source of insecurity for both of them at the beginning as they moved onto a romance. This may be what's behind this particular conversation.

On 8.4, the night before dd's birthday, we get some big romance with rooftop stargazing and a birthday countdown. Then on 8.5, the cake and prezzies. On the morning of 8.6, dd posts his Weibo message about continuing things he started at 21 when he's 81.

DD's Weibo post always read as a response to something specific. Maybe gg was starting to have reservations about where their relationship would go after filming. The end was in sight, and gg may have been wanting to pull away, citing dd's age as a concern.

At the same time, they haven't put the kibosh on things yet. Maybe they're just trying not to think about it. They're busy enough, after all, they can put it out of their minds. That's how we get gg singing sam smith to dd on 8.18.

But then something happens. Maybe gg gets some big reminder that filming is wrapping up soon. Whatever it is, he deletes dd as a contact on WeChat. This leads to the 8.20 fight where dd asks gg to add him back and gg says they'll go their separate ways.

Maybe gg does add him back that day after the fight. Maybe he decides to wait until the very end to disconnect rather than hash it out while they still have filming to do. Maybe there are crucial events happening that were never caught on camera (Okay, this is definitely the case).

Whatever it is, they return to some form of normal for the next couple days. Then on the day they wrap, maybe that's the day gg breaks it off again. This is why dd was late to the photoshoot and why they fought on the steps after.

Whew. Okay, so I think that kinda accounts for all the ups and downs of the timeline.

Again, I'm not committed to this take. I'm just spitballing something that might make sense of some of these dates on the timeline. I'd love to see what other folks come up with!

We're all probably wrong anyway, and there's no way we'll ever know! 🤡🤡🤡🐢🐢🐢🐢

[kalternativa]

Sorry for being late, but I wanted to leave my opinion here. I think DD is sensitive in many, many ways, but when it comes to acting or making decisions I feel he try doesn't let feelings influence him. That's why he sometimes seems cold and insensitive and sometimes he seems warm and sensitive. He can be both, it will depend on the situation. Is it something he prepared for or did it happen unexpectedly? Is it something that requires focus and control or is it a casual situation? I believe that despite his sensitivity, he has a lot of emotional intelligence and, because of this, some people can be confused.

moar made-up thoughts about dd's thoughts

Some of the replies on my previous post left me re-evaluating, and I don't know that I was incredibly effective at what I meant to communicate (honestly, that is really frustrating for me). So I just want to clarify and maybe add some context.

I assume it goes without saying that everybody in turtleland adores dd and gg and that we think dd is a sweetie-pie (I can't conceive of being a turtle without that belief). And as a group, dd and gg's sweet moments get highlighted a lot, which I adore. These posts I have on dd are more about stuff I don't see discussed quite as much and they're not meant to encapsulate all that dd is because, wow that's a lot. For the previous post, I'd been thinking a lot about dd's mentality and how he approaches things, as seen in SDC, because his captaining style seems really distinct in a way I wanted to dig into.

Honestly, we've known dd for years at this point, and he's grown and changed throughout that time. He's been influenced by gg and by other friends and mentors. And like most people, how he acts is variable and dependent on context. 

I do think dd was sometimes thoughtless when younger, but I don't think that's anything out of the ordinary for his age at the time, and I think he's grown out of it. In any case, it was never mean-spirited. Still, I think the way he expresses his feelings is pretty reserved and that he's not incredibly prone to sentimental gestures, like the gifts he sent Yang Kai. I think he can be thoughtful in that he's responsive when people indicate what they want, but I don't think he's the type to think up a gift idea on his own. Given that Yang Kai actually knows the guy and said as such, I don't think it's too far off-base to say that. I honestly think he probably gets help from gg with that sort of stuff, and he's likely to have gotten better at it as a result. But dd has never struck me as a sentimental guy.

(though with the captain gifts, I have no idea the logistics of how those worked, and I suspect, like most things on reality shows, that production assistants helped with suggestions and such)

I think he's a fantastic captain! I don't think I said that, because it's one of those things I assume goes without saying, especially as it's often said as such in turtledom. I think even back to Produce 101 when he was mentoring the young girls who were fawning over him. He did the cutesy dance with them to support them, even though he hates being cutesy (and bless him for it. That dance is a gift (and led to cute bts moments of gg poking fun at dd)). He's passionate about dance and he's passionate about helping other people improve (and learning from others). Dancers want to join his team because of that passion, and because dd just has a natural talent for it that is incredibly inspiring.

But he does like winning. He explicitly said as much himself. And that one episode I highlighted where his team lost is pretty tense. The rehearsals were tense, the performance was tense, dd's response to everything was tense. During one round, his team only gets 4 votes compared to, like 40 for the other team. I can't recall the score ever being so lopsided, especially when the losing team is full of top-tier dancers.

And dd's behavior then is incredibly relatable to me. He laughs about it, joking about how he only got 4 votes. But it's the laugh you get when you're really unhappy and kinda embarrassed but trying to keep a good, positive face on things (or at least, that's a strategy I have for those moments, and given dd's switch to serious-times when he's doing the team debrief, I think he's somewhat similar). 

And dd recovers well. He has a debrief with his team. He talks to Han Geng about what his team is lacking (they specifically talk about his team performance not being thematic like the others) and realizes they need a choreographer to pull everything together and give them direction. And the very first round of recruitment, he gets a choreographer for them. 

I don't think dd only likes winning. The reference to "not here to make friends" thing was a bit of rhetorical exaggeration for fun. Like I noted, he makes friends. He learns a lot and he mentors a lot, and that's definitely a big part of the draw for SDC for him. And while dd never intentionally cultivates a family atmosphere (as opposed to the other captains who explicitly tell their team that they're like a family), they come together like a family anyway. But he still likes winning, and I think he has trouble enjoying everything else as much if he's not winning. 

It's not a bad thing to be competitive like that (I once got into a fight with my wife because I kept losing in thumb wars against her. I personally know when competitiveness becomes stupid). DD has a passionate drive to succeed. This is how he's managed to excel at basically everything he tries (except cooking). I think way back to the auditions in SDC 3, when dd impresses his group by being savvy about street dance gestures (like the plagiarism gesture) and by knowing how to appeal to dancers (by having them warm up with some freestyling). He quickly overcomes any doubts the dancers have based on his idol background by being genuine, sincere, and passionate and that's why people want to join his team.

 *rereads all this* Hmmmm...feedback and replies are good. This is a better post.

Also, this judge is the one who always says nice things about dd. He's said at one point that dd has an extraordinary natural talent for dance even among professional dancers. He's right and he should say it. Best judge. A+ I hope they keep bringing him on.