kelca13

[kelca13]

I just wanted to share this.

Why do we always make an assumption (or lean towards it) that jikook are in gay glass closet? Why do we keep saying there's homophobia in SK? Why are we giving so much importance to the most pessimistic explaination for jikook hiding there relationship?

Like it could be simply they don't want to declare their love without being super sure about each other. They just don't want to make the statement out there that's all. It's not really a thing about glass closet, is what I feel sometimes. JK had literally pointed at JM for the question of what he desired after becoming an adult in what, 2015? If there's homophobia, they wouldn't have done that in a joking way as well. At that point their own relationship was in testing waters phase, and it was okay for JK to point out the obvious. In fact, I didn't see any kind of fear (homophobic) on their faces. There was panic (maybe about the obvious kookmin relationship) but it was all taken in light way and laughed out hard. Only Jhope seemed a lil worried, prolly because he understood the obvious and anticipated that viewers might too. But I could not decipher a homophobic panic/reaction.

And about SK being homophobic, I really don't think so. They have LGBT festivals, have gay Bars and probably have LGBT couples living there (at least the immigrants) or are we saying no international LGBT person buys a plot there and lives in SK (even the singles)? I really don't think it's big of a deal to the SK people if anyone's a LGBT but international fans make it look like a big deal. If homophobia exists, it exist in the same way it does in all other countries.

It's just simple, jikook themselves don't want to give a straight up statement of being in a relationship and zinx it (maybe). It's like those couples - one where they declare on social media of being in a relationship and other who don't. Jikook is the later but ironically they have used the social media to express love to each other or maybe not, who knows?

But I'm just saying, it's really not a big deal in any part of the world if you are LGBT couple. Especially not in developed countries like South Korea. It's just normal and it should be like that. (Laws can, will and have changed, so political agenda is just a temporary argument. I mean if there are LGBT rallies taking place in SK then definitely the laws will change in coming future).

We as third party make it look like a big deal, either by expressing too much support for the LGBT couples (who may really not seek for it) or by being antis/homophobic.

Please don't directly start with "no Anon no"... I've just shared a point of view and on other side of my brain there IS another POV as well. But I find it very funny on some of the blogs (I think you are the only one who doesn't start an answer like this) who straight away take it way too personal even though they themselves are just going by their instincts about any ship they believe in. I like your blog the most, maybe now I should go check out your about section if there's any 😊

Well damn, anon. You're gonna make me write an essay. Hope you're ready for it!

To start, thank you for the kind words and that you like it here. Hopefully you still think that even after I write an entire essay disagreeing with you. 😁💜 You are entitled to your POV, but hopefully you are open to other ones, backed by some research. I don't know if you are LGBTQ either... I don't want to assume, but the way this was written makes me think that you are not. Which is fine either way, but that factors into how we perceive things as well.

I'll also say that many K-army translators have talked about that what's your desire moment in 2015. I have a post up about that as well, I'll link it here... Jungkook was saying that he desired to go drinking with his hyungs. Which makes sense being that while he was underage, he spent most of his time watching his hyung have celebration champagne. He makes the same pop sound that Koreans use to signify drinking with his mouth as he pointed to first Jhope, then Jimin. Tae makes the same sound during the lyrics of Friends when he asks Jimin to get a drink with him later. Check out that post for more details on that moment please. I'll be separating paragraphs with pictures and gifs as I normally do in my essays here. Some will be related, most will not, enjoy them! Here we go!

To start, let's talk about homophobia in Korea. Now, I am not Korean, nor have I ever been to Korea, but this is all information readily out there for anyone who wishes to find it.

Homophobia is 100% still around, and still very active in South Korea. No, it is not the same as every other country. South Korea has no comprehensive anti discrimination laws to protect LGBTQ South Koreans. You can explore more about what anti discrimination laws protect LGBTQ people here in America by looking through and reading articles on the UCLA law website here. SK has absolutely zero laws to protect any LGBTQ citizens or even give them anything in terms of protection in just general life. Compared to similar countries like Japan or Taiwan, who both have some laws set up. In Taiwan, same sex couples are now allowed to legally get married. In Japan, they can't do that yet, but some cities allow and issue same sex coupes certificates, that can function as a non legally binding marriage agreement between couples, recognized by the city. SK has none of that.

In SK, homosexual sex isn't technically banned, but it IS illegal in the military. Meaning if while you serve, if a man is caught having relations with another man while serving, they can both be sentenced to years in jail. If you are known to be LGBTQ and then join the military (which, if any idol came out, they would automatically be known. There would be no chances of being out and then going back into the closet for the military for them) then you are that much more likely to be "watched" or bullied/harassed. Having superiors just looking for a reason to slap the gay label on you and get you out of service and into jail.

Openly known figures who are trans in SK have been victims of what we call "social murders" or harassed, bullied and torn apart until they take their own life. And no one is ever willing to persecute. People who come out as queer have been in fear of losing their jobs and/or being blacklisted. SK is very very conservative and many politicians are asked about stances and denied even the chance to run unless they are pretty staunchly anti-lgbtq. Prior to the presidency, President Moon was a Human Rights Lawyer in South Korea and stated publicly on Television that he was "against homosexuality and did not like it" in 2017. Almost everyone currently holding positions in power are firmly against placing any laws to legalize or protect LGBTQ individuals from discrimination in any form, including in marriage or job security or in hospitals when requiring medical attention. So currently, admitting to being gay opens you to the possibility of being refused work, refused to have your relationship recognized, refused medical treatment in emergency situations, higher chance of jail time while serving in the military and more. Things are very far from fair or equal. And things are very far from the same as any other LGBTQ couple would face in a different or more liberal/democratic country.

Now let's talk about the general public of Korea. It is honestly pretty evenly split, with more of the younger generation in favor of adopting anti discrimination laws. An attempt to pass a bill to protect LGBTQ citizens has been attempted 6 times, and has failed very quickly 6 times. That doesn't mean people stop fighting though. You don't ever stop fighting for equality. Ever. If you stop fighting, you will never get it. No one hands that over for free. America is still fighting for the queer community, and we ARE significantly better off here then they are in SK.

Part of that fight is by fighting to normalize things. You do that through festivals, through fighting to have a safe place for the queer community to be themselves in, such as gay bars and communities. But that still doesn't mean acceptance as whole. Things are SLOWLY starting to get better. Through things like pride parades, drag queen parades, gay bars, etc. These things just recently started popping up though around 2016 to 2018. That is really not that long ago. And many many cities/towns are still very open about their dislike of that and refuse to allow them. It's more the bigger cities that are doing them. Openly queer tourists tend to recieve less than popular reception, often even getting refused service from some places. There are resources out there for the community such as maps to queer friendly businesses, gay bars, humans rights groups, and HIV/AIDS awareness groups. The existence of these things and places are the bare minimum of progress though and doesn't change the general mindset of homophobia and discrimination that exists within the country as a whole and especially in the legislation and through their politics.

2018 was when Holland debuted. The first LGBTQ artist to debut as openly gay. And he had to fight tooth and nail to debut, having to do it as an independent artist because no label would allow him to be gay under their contract, saying he would HAVE to make sure he went back in the closet and stayed there before anyone knew who he was. Holland wanted to stay true to himself though. And even though it took years, he did finally debut in 2018 and has never hid his sexuality. This had lead to him having minimal in Korea though, most (not all) of his fanbase being international and barely being recognized in his home country. When he had a male actor in his music video instead of a female one (because he is gay) it was rated 19+ meaning it couldn't be broadcasted anywhere nationally, it could only be online and didn't really get any promotion. All because of him portraying a mlm relationship instead of a het one, it was branded as adult content and not suitable for children or families. TV show host Hong Seok-cheon came out in 2000 and was promptly fired from his job and blacklisted from other companies, so he couldn't find a new job to be back on TV anywhere else. Thus discouraging anyone else in the field from doing the same. "Coming Out" is not easy, its not receptive and it's got a very high potential to have serious social, health and financial ramifications.

Now this doesn't mean that there aren't queer people in SK, there definitely are. But just because they exist and fight for a fair life in their country, doesn't mean that the homophobia and discrimination disappear or that international fans are making it up when talking about this with their idols. And just because the homophobia exists, doesn't mean that queer people are going to stop being queer or stop loving who they love or stop fighting for that love. It doesn't stop them from wanting to express that love either, even if it's something that is hidden in plain sight. SK has heteronormativity to the extreme. Unless you explicitly say "I am Gay" or get caught engaging in homosexual sex in any form or making out with someone of the same sex... you will be assumed straight, really no matter what else you do. The majority of well known people and even regular citizens who are LGBTQ will use that to their advantage and use that glass closet to get to express their love without explicitly outing themselves.

As for Jikook, do you really think that if we are correct and they have been involved since 2016 that they wouldn't be sure about each other by this point? 5 years into a relationship? Most couples are either for sure serious at this point or have broken up. They utilize that glass closet and the shipping culture in kpop to showcase their affection safely in ways they otherwise couldn't because of how public their lives are.. Your statements that being an LGBTQ couple anywhere in the world isn't a big deal is idealistic and slightly ignorant. It diminishes the fight and fear that many queer people constantly face while working towards acceptance all of the time, all over the world.

I hope this makes sense and helped you understand the other side so to speak. I'll reiterate here that I'm not Korean and if any of my facts here need updating please comment or reblog. Please correct me if needed.

Hope everyone has a good day. 💜

[kelca13]

I didn’t realize how bad this was, and it’s sobering and embarrassing as an American. Thank you @stormblessed95 for putting this together, and please, Army, take this as a reminder to be respectful and consider the safety and comfort of BTS. You are not entitled to their physical bodies, image, or presence because you are a fan. I am especially ashamed at how little care was taken to protect their health during a pandemic.

Hi Storm.

I dont usually send asks and have been following your blog for a some time and you I really like duo dynamics series.

I wanted to address this issue of fans lining up at the airport to see BTS in NY and how almost everyone on TW is shaming them for it and that its invading their privacy.

Now unless its about following them to their hotel and sharing hotel info etc which is clearly seasang behaviour, what is really wrong in standing outside an airport behind the barriers and waving and taking their pictures at the airport?

Isnt it the same as fans waiting for BTS outside the Billboard awards venue or korean fans waiting for idols outside music bank recording studios.

I dont know if they were crowded/mobbed at the airport but from what i have seen on tw are pics of just some fans waiting behind barriers and bts being taken to their cars while waving back at the fans.

Personally to me it seems they would have been happy to see the US armies greet them since they came back after almost 2 years.

Maybe I am missing something here and will be happy to understand how others view this but it seems to me sometimes the fandom has a habit of being overprotective and babying the members too much.

Hi, you seem nice, so I'll also try to be nice in answering this. But please try to understand how frustrating it is to get an ask dismissing a situation as army being overprotective when you don't have the full information. If you want to know why people are so upset because you don't understand, phrase it as a question. Don't just dismiss it out of pocket because you don't understand. Ask if there is info missing. I don't know if you are new to the fandom, but they have had issues with fans in airports many times. And it's a serious problem.

Yes, people crowding them at the airport is a problem. Let's talk about why. First and foremost, because Big Hit told people NOT to do it and to not show up at the airport and crowd the artists who are exhausted and just got off a very long flight:

Not to mention that yesterday, they were not traveling as Idols, but they were traveling as Diplomatic Ambassadors to the Korean President. So the behavior from fans in NY was just embarrassing honestly and lacked respect.

There is also a difference for sure between crowding them at an airport where they asked you to give them space and waiting outside Billboard or music bank to watch rehearsals and to see them. One of those events ARMYs and fans are invited to. The other they are not. Check the screenshot from BH above. The first bullet point. Airports are NOT offical events BTS attend. Music Bank/Billboard and other music shows or performances ARE official events.

So on top of BH saying don't come to the airports. They also tried to keep their flight info a secret. It got leaked by sasaengs who not only just leaked their flight info but also the exact tracking details on their flight. Big Hit and BTS did not want yall there. We had fans in NY showing up and crowded against barricades as soon as BTS walked out. Fans where the majority of them were not wearing masks, in the middle of a pandemic, in a country with covid rates that are still soaring. Fans who were screaming on the timeline how they got to touch Jungkook's arm or how close they managed to get to Jin, etc. And if you actually saw the video "they quickly grabbed all their things before bracing themselves out in the hall. Then they quickly speed walked through the crowd, trying to get out the door as fast as possible. No one smiled. 5 of the 7 members refused to even look up. Only 3 of the 7 members waved to the crowd, but that's because they are polite and kind and love ARMY even if ARMY is being disrespectful at the moment. Want a nice example of BTS being surprised by ARMYs and actually being happy and thrilled to see her? This is one:

Want more examples of why this isn't okay? People showing up at airports and filming sites that they aren't supposed to be at SCARES the members. Shoving cameras and phones in their faces freaks them out especially when no one backs off and gives them their space while they do it. Tae and Hobi BOTH have told us this before. Hobi in Break the Silence and Tae on a live stream:

Also not to mention that yes they are worldwide now, they often get compared to the legendary status of the Beetles and how they will go down in History. Anyone remember that the Beetles started to refuse to go on tours in their final years because they were primarily concerned for their personal safety around their fans? Celebrities are owed personal space and privacy too. And their team and security got them through NY this time very quickly and without much incident thank goodness, but if you haven't seen the videos where things go wrong because of crowds like this, then let me share some because you should.

The way they crowded and yanked on them, to the point where they knocked Jimin to the ground and he couldn't get back up until his bodyguard grabbed him:

Jin on a filming site and was crowded and jostled both here at the site when he was trying to leave and again at the airport

When Jhopes bodyguard had to shove a fan away from him in the airport when she ran up to them literally trying to get right next to him:

When Yoongi shoved Jimin behind him and Tae moved in front of them when a women they didn't recognize approached them looking like she was going in Jimin's direction, and if that doesn't show you how on guard they are in airports, I don't know what does:

The distance I see kept between fansites, and fans in Korea is always much more respectful than I see in international airports. Still not great, but they are celebrities and not much to do about people wanting pictures everutime you do anything. But this is not cool. The shoving and the screaming. The not wearing a mask in a pandemic. The using leaked info to find out when they are landing so you can wait at the airport also not cool. Before flights were announced more and they traveled with a larger security team. Still not okay people showed up to crowd and film them, but at least they didn't hunt down information BTS didn't want them to have. This was disrespectful.

The only time BTS has ever expressed gratitude and seemed happy to see ARMY at the airport was during the purple ribbon projects. Which fans set up where they strung and held purple ribbon back to create a WIDE path for BTS to walk down without anyone being able to pass the purple ribbon. It gave them their space and their safety as they went through the airport. They were very grateful. I would love to see those purple ribbons make a come back honestly and keep people from following them to their cars and from trying to touch them. Tae even took pictures with the ribbon to post to thank ARMYs for respecting them and keeping them safe.

Notice the distance kept between fans and BTS with this purple ribbon idea. No one followed behind them either once they passed by

In the end, if BTS wanted fans there, they wouldn't have tried to hard to keep their flight info and travel plans on the down low. They wouldn't have rushed out of that airport so quickly. And if ARMY was more respectful. They wouldn't have gone. Or at the very least, they would have been masked, socially distanced and made sure to keep their damn space and stay away from them. And they wouldn't have followed them out to their cars. And they wouldn't have tried to follow them to their hotel to find out where they are staying.

BTS got to travel for the first time in 2 years and they weren't even allowed to arrive in peace and get to relax. Hopefully they can now that they are safe in their hotel and that the hotel is doing everything they can to make sure they are SAFE while staying with them. If you aren't invited somewhere like an offical BTS event, you shouldn't go.

Hopefully this helped explain it a little bit. But yeah, there definitely is a difference in why some locations are okay for fans to hang out in and some are not. And leaking travel information is never okay. Just because something is legal doesn't make it morally ethical or okay to do.

[kelca13]

just smile and wave everybody - jikook mots on:e edition

[kelca13]

Hi Euna! So as an international Army I've always seen other international Army saying that the level of platonic physical and sometimes emotional intimacy we see between BTS is common in South Korea and they often times use that reasoning to downplay the idea of a romantic relationship between jikook.

I saw this talking point being used this week with the jikook hickey saga. People commenting that it's no big deal in the grand scheme of things. Saying that using this as some kind of proof for jikook is nonsense. Comparing jikook interactions to things like jimin kissing tae on the hand or tae kissing namjoon on the side of the head.

Now personally I think there's a difference between how jikook interact with each other and how they individually interact with the rest of the guys. I also think that people are leaning heavily on the idea that jikook interactions are normal south Korean skinship activities between male friends to debunk the idea that their interactions are romantic.

But if that's the case, why do so many Korean army's interpret jikook interactions as something more than platonic? Wouldn't they know the difference between friendly skinship and romantic skinship? Is there a difference?

I guess my question is, what can you say about the people who lean on skinship to excuse away everything jikook do with each other? Is it just us using our western eyes to view something not of our culture and misinterpreting? Is south Korean male skinship really as close as we think it is?

Would love to hear your views on this as someone familiar with both cultures intimately. Love your deep dives btw!

Firstly, I truly wonder what gives some international Army the confidence to speak on Korean culture so freely when they're not Korean themselves. Like no, you are not an expert on another culture's social norms just because you're a fan of their celebrities. No matter how invested you are.

I completely understand and respect not wanting to 'ship' Jungkook and Jimin. But when you start undermining their relationship and speaking on things which you have no authority to speak about just to push forth a narrative that makes you comfortable, that's when we have a problem.

Yes, it can be said that in some cases, skinship between male friends are more commonplace and normalized than it is in the west. But as with any aspect of culture, its nuances and boundaries are complex and situational.

A younger dongsaeng* having a drink with his hyung is perfectly normal. No one would bat an eye.

A younger dongsaeng having a drink with his hyung, lifting his hyung in a bridal carry, spinning him around until said hyung got dizzy enough to demand he be let down—which he expressed by biting said dongsaeng on the neck, significantly hard/long enough to form a bruise—emphatically does not fall under normal levels of skinship. No matter how selectively you pick and choose parts of Korean culture to use for your own means, and even if you choose not to read anything romantic into what happened, that doesn't change the fact that it's just plain weird. They're weird for what they did, and Jin and Tae's reactions to them re-telling their story are further proof to that.

I guess in conclusion, I would like to respectfully ask that if you're not Korean, to not drag our culture into a discussion that you're not qualified to participate in. It comes across as silly and ignorant and frankly—is quite annoying.

(*Here's another word that people love to misinterpret/pretend they're experts on. For the record, no, dongsaeng not limited to blood-related ties. It's used to refer to anyone who is younger than you.)

[kelca13]

Head empty, only thinking of this bite mark/hickey thing and how they never had to tell us about it if they didn’t want to.

And also how he only let Jimin touch it — not Jin.

[kelca13]

3J SUPERIOR. 3J WORLD DOMINATION.

[kelca13]

Happy B'day JK i love you so much 💜

[kelca13]

Just casually sliding in here to support point 2. If you can, be supportive/kind/nurturing to the blogs you follow. A lot of times devoted readers will mostly lurk or like, while haters will send asks/messages/etc. It can make the whole experience feel very weighted in the negative. You don’t owe blogs anything of course! Just consider how the experience may feel on the other side.

Remember bloggers do this in their spare time for free and are just people — not influencers or larger-than-life personalities that need to be relentlessly attacked or criticized (although we should really rethink our attitude toward people with big platforms in general, in my opinion). When you do something for free in your spare time and it’s a negative experience, it’s hard to find motivation to keep doing that thing. That’s the honest truth and I think we should talk about that more.

Why do you think many great KM blogs stop posting after a while? Could it be because of hateful anonymous asks? I think I would get tired if I had to deal with some of the anons I see you and other blogs dealing with, tbh. Please don’t stop posting, though. Your blog is really amazing, I’m a fan.

Hi vintage Anon!

Now that I've been blogging for a while, I think that there are a few things that happen.

1) Boredom. This ties into (3) below, but once people feel like they've seen all they need to see/nothing interesting crops up, their interest lessens and they move on to something else.

2) Bad vibes. It's really hard out here as a blogger. Constantly being criticised or harassed in varying degrees is not really fun. You have to learn to switch off/disconnect from it, or you will stop blogging. Like you said, the hateful anons and distasteful reblogs can really put someone off from blogging. I mean, how many people are afraid to reblog? A lot. And some people are too scared to come off anon. That's not a friendly environment.

3) A lot of the KM blogs are shippers. It means that they either "believe" or are devout in thinking Jungkook and Jimin are a couple, and they aren't always fans of the artists and their work. They're in this space for gossip, romance, uwus, etc. So, if something comes along that shakes that belief, they get angry and/or peace out. I'm not a shipper—I'm a fan of Jungkook and Jimin. The only way I'll stop being a fan is if they committed an egregious crime (lol) or their work became terrible/boring. :D

[kelca13]

what goes on in jiminie’s workshop and kook’s workshop

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kook’s workshop that is faring slightly better:

[kelca13]

3-step romance

[kelca13]

100% agree!

I've been watching a lot of vminkook videos on youtube because i love their friendship and i found myself thinking that jimin seems to be like... the centre? or the glue of the group? It just seems that both JK and V gravitate towards him. what are your thoughts on that? :)

I'll just send you right on over to this post here where I talk about VminKook dynamics as a trio

Jimin 100% is the center or core of that friendship. Both Tae and JK have a deeper and more intimate connection with Jimin, physically, emotionally and intellectually then they do with each other. Which is nothing bad, taekook love each other and have an amazing bond and an incredible friendship. They both also gravitate towards Jimin

They love him SO MUCH

I know this is about Jungkook staring.... but so was Tae. Stopped right in his tracks to STARE, the both of them:

Tae calling Jimin his angel and saying that he sleeps like an angel.... JK saying that Jimin is a Fallen Angel... they love him

They LOVE him love him. How anyone can think otherwise baffles me. I feel like you haven't been around my blog long enough to hear my Jimin and his 2 boyfriend jokes. But I enjoy making them. Lol so yes, long story short. I agree. Jimin is the center of that triangle for sure, but they are all so sweet together.

[kelca13]

ON is always the right answer :’)

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[kelca13]

NO THEYRE ACTUALLY THE CUTEST HDSKLJFGHFD 

[kelca13]

just another wednesday at Hybe i guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[kelca13]

I cannot find a plausible explanation for this. 😅

🐰 why is he acting so flirty 🐰 I can’t approve this

After watching 🍑upload Memories 2020 clips for the past 3 hours, this is what finally broke my brain. That tone. I have no words. 

[kelca13]

I live in Memories 2020 now. 😍

“the staff never saw jimin and jungkook separated” energy still going strong - memories of 2020 edition

[kelca13]

I didn’t interpret it literally. To me, based on how it’s been explained by multiple Korean speakers, it seems like he’s using language to cleverly sidestep the question, but this time with more suggestion than he’s used previously. I didn’t interpret it as a statement on what the hyungs actually know or don’t know — just his way of saying, “To the outside, this is how it appears.” He may be using the hyungs as a stand-in based on the rules of the guessing game he’s playing. Because let’s be real, based on the amount of reaction they give when they do things like THIS (and by that I mean NO reaction), I think it’s impossible they aren’t aware of whatever is going on. 😅

Hi i hope you're doing well. Thank you for all the translation you provide us with. We really are grateful. Can you please give us the exact translation to what jimin said about jungkook. Because I see a lot of translation saying jm said jk is his brother.

https://twitter.com/HYBE_MERCH/status/1422814596377632774?s=19

Thank you so much

Thank you anon! I hope you've been doing well too and that you've been enjoying the latest Memories drop. I know I have 💜

About the HYBE Guess Who Talk, I want to make one thing clear: posts that translate Jimin's words as just him saying JK's his younger brother (dongsaeng) are misinterpretations.

This is a transcript of what Jimin says: 형들이 보기에 그냥 내 동생인가봐

And this is a clip of where he says it:

This would be my translation of Jimin's words:

"To the hyungs, it appears that Jungkook's just my dongsaeng."

I did my best to capture the kind of subtle phrasing he uses, which leaves so much room to read between the lines while also being a simple answer that makes complete sense in the context of this guessing game. Who's Jungkook? Well he's Jimin's dongsaeng. That's a factual label capable of summing up their relationship to society (if you want to read more about the term, here is a previous post that goes a bit more in-depth). In BTS, Jimin has no other dongsaeng; therefore that's how Jungkook would be identified in the group.

But the way Jimin phrases this—taking the perspective of an outsider in a tone that seems to say "this is what you think, right?"—suggests a keen awareness to how Jungkook, particularly his relationship to Jungkook, is perceived by others. It also suggests the limits of this perception.

"It appears that Jungkook's just my dongsaeng. . .[but that's not all]" — would be the unspoken but clearly understood end to what his sentence conveys.

Jimin is suggesting that there's more beneath the surface, suggesting that this isn't the full picture, suggesting that Jungkook is more than simply his dongsaeng, whatever that "more" may mean.