kremblor

[kremblor]

Your post got me thinking that Hetty and Flower should bond over having creepy older family members. Elias & Unnamed Uncle.

I really want that. Part of why I have the HC that its Hetty who finds Flower during Flower's first night is I love this idea of Hetty "doesn't like touch" Woodstone will pick up on Flower and her seeks comfort in touch nature during that interaction. Will have this internal "shes been hurt too" alarm flickering inside her and just immediately set a sort of permanent "if ever you need take my hand" rule with her. Thus why we can see Flower touching her and Hetty reluctantly just accepting even during the early seasons.

Id love for Flower to mention the Uncle again and Hetty just move closer. Elias tries to do something and Flower moves closer to Hetty - even slightly before her. The two just using closeness as a bonding tool over these things. And then we can have a "we never should have had to go through that" mutual realization share.

[kremblor]

When l stuck it on, l saw the pyramids at Giza. Then, whoosh! Straight across the desert to Karnak.

[kremblor]

Because my show paused (again) time to type up random things for Ghosts again:

- Thor has always done a "Thor not" "Thor is" etc style method of talking but also used actual pronouns while alive. He learned to be less loud with the Thor usage around others (but still mumbled it or did it around trusted people). But once abandon it became a way of communicating around himself. Walking around with Oskar, hed do a "No, Oskar we already searched that way." "No, Thor not remember wrong. Trees familiar"

- There was other ghosts before Sas that Thor meet but most moved on after short after lives. Thor thought Sas would as well and was constantly waiting for it, Sas asked him why he looked so sad once and got a "Thor knows you leave soon, all other ghosts do. Just like shipmates" and here we are Sas is still around.

- Sas was the one present when Isaac became a ghost, he was rather uncertain but remembered Thor's "hi im, want to see dead" thing that happened with him. So while Isaac was panicking he introduced himself and then went "want to go see dying British?" (Isaac of course stopped mid panic rant at that)

- Thor and Sas where there for Patience. This was not the best greeting and she immediately cursed them both as "savages" before rushing away. She tried to tell other Puritans in the area but course no one could see her so she eventually made it back to them and both just gave her looks. This further explains why Sas wasn't sure how to handle sudden ghost Isaac later (Thor was off watching battles at the time and Patience was wandering around proclaiming it all to be some evil thing or means to remove the evil who knows)

- The basement ghosts each appear at different points of that epidemic but largely within a short time of each other. In horror, the ghosts watch (even Patience) as the others in the area lock them away in "sick houses" and then as one after another they appear. Isaac is the one who moves forward when the first (Nancy) appears and gently whispers a greeting, his name and "Youve died, disease took you." But before he can even finish explaining another is appearing and Nancy is whispering the person's name. Its ... a long horrible and gruesome process but every single one of the basement ghosts get greeted by familiar faces they knew already but also new ones who are gentle and sympathetic.

- When the manor is built its the basement ghosts who opt to stay in the basement, feeling more comfortable down there. The discomfort the other ghosts build over the years is due to them largely never emerging and eventually giving everyone unsettled "why are you out here?!" Reaction (similar to when Nigel et all emerge and they have "what battle must we fight now")

- Speaking of Nigel and the other Redcoats .... Thor. It was Thor who was there for most of theirs. That man was on the battle field and strolling the camps listening to battle plans. He would happily greet the fallen new ghosts with a "I am Thorffin, you have fallen in battle. Ghost now but Valhala will be proud to have you!" Nigel probably got a similar one but with more a "not sure your death counts as battle, one moment you are there the next" motions to body "you bleeding on ground no enemies in sight. Perhaps Valhala still approve" claps him on back whole Nigel is just like I BEG YOUR FINEST PARDON

- I will refrain from getting into Hetty because we already know but also like ... I'll essay again probably.

- Alberta almost has no one there for her when it happens. But Hetty is outside the door witnessing it all and when the choice comes down to follow her son she cant. Shes stuck in a frozen stance of "no no not that bottle" raging inside her as Alberta opens the door and takes it. She doesn't even get to fully make the decision before she hears Alberta hit the ground and she is through the door and horror is filling her as the confirmation of what her son has done lays before her. Before she can process, Alberta is there. And as the fear, horror, panic, grief, denial, etc all begin to flash on the woman's face Hetty pulls herself into her "lady of the house" persona and gently guides her through a wall "My name is Henrietta Woodstone, I am so sorry my dear but you've just died. Yes we just went through a wall, you needn't see yourself like that. No one should see such a thing"

- of course we know who was there for Flower, we saw how that one went down. However, I love the idea of after ... when she gets back to the house and those three have finally manage to share their names and a "honey you died" thing with her ... she hasn't really processed. That night though, when sitting in a room, shes pressed into a corner until a woman all dressed in blue appears and she whispers "are you real?" And Hetty just smiles, sits across from her "Regrettably this situation is very real, my dear. I am Henrietta Woodstone" "oh we were near a Woodstone Manor before we got lost in the woods ... I died. They said .... I dont like the dark" "I know a room with better lighting. This one is rather ... dreadful. Come along" she stands and Flower reaches up to her, Hetty pulls into herself and Flower flinches ... so Hetty takes her hand immediately. "If ever you need, take my hand."

- Again, we get told about Pete's but .... I like to imagine that after the initial "So, uh, you died. We are" he gets and his processing (and of course watching his troops get taken care of) its ... Thor that ends up with him that night. Thor is securing the grounds, as he does when he cant sleep - checking in on Hetty as well because of course - and he finds Pete staring out a window. He makes a comment about it "Is manor not okay for Peter?" Style and Pete turns all "You can just call me Pete. And no, the manor is perfect. Ive always wondered about the inside. The place always seemed like it housed a wonderful family. I just .." looks back out window, reaches towards his neck "I dont know how to deal with this" "Thor die by lightening" "That's.... not what I expected" "Thor still rather die in battle. Arrow honorable way to go." "So your saying I may never deal with it" "Pete find his way, Thor find his"

- We also see Trevor's. Again, I see it as him being guided away. Given the information. But its later .... when hes alone that night and less crowded that the processing starts to hit. And I like it being Flower or Alberta finding him. Hes alone on a couch staring at his hands in shock. Only for them to tell him he'll get used to it and he looks up all "dying without my pants on?" Now if Alberta shes pulling a "oh no honey none of us are getting used to that. I meant being here. And even that I dont mean entirely. It just... becomes what is." If Flower shes gonna look at him for a long pause then do a "I died by a bear. You dont have pants?" He just laughs because what do you even say to that

[kremblor]

I put Bones on to take a break from some things (shhh I'll get back to my other shows) and I cant see two faces without thinking of other fandoms:

One being - Sam Cullen, FBI Deputy Director. Also known on another show as Admiral Chegwidden. Where he had to watch as two individuals investigsting and prosecuting crimes pretended not to be in love for years before finally flipping a coin to decide where they'd go to live.

The other being (least in an episode) - Detective Rose Harding. Also known as Detective Jeffries on another series .... where she had to watch two partners pretend to be just partners (and literally has lines in this series where "partner" is implied to be more)

Like, the way i see these faces and just go "aww did you try to get away only to run into these two?"

[kremblor]

I think a lot of this has to do with who Dumbledore himself was at one point.

He walked a very similar path to Severus. He was drawn in and lured by the idea of power. Desired things that would place him above others, absolve him - in his mind - of what his father had done. And could help him fix what had happened to his sister. The Hallows were a means for him to achieve this. He was also involved with the person that had further lured him down that path - built plans and everything with him ("for the greater good") before it all blew up with the death of someone he loves.

Albus stepped away from that path and locked himself away, self imprisoned himself in teaching as if it would snuff out his ambitions and prevent his desire for control from rising. Only for the war against Grindelwald to further hand him power and control anyways further allowing him to deny that his teaching path was also a way of control

When Severus stood before him and Albus uttered the "you disgust me" line at him he is looking at a younger version of himself. A mirror reflecting back at him as he sees his past play out once more. And then, years later - after countless people try to tell him not to trust Severus - when he acts on the instinct of grief and reaches for that hallow that would allow him to see his sister again ... to beg her forgiveness .... when the curse eats away at him after ... he reaches out to the one who would understand.

And without knowing it Snape manages to utter back to the mirror that the behavior was idiotic and reckless.

Basically ... Severus role in saving Albus is so vital and it wouldnt even exist if not for the fact Albus so intently can understand where he comes from. Others may have reached out to the mediwitch on staff for help, but he knew. He trusted. He believed in Severus ability to not just help him but understand - on some level - why he fell for the trap the ring possesses.

We don't talk enough about the fact that Severus saved Dumbledore's life. Imagine what the fuck would've happened if Albus had randomly and quickly died before HBP. Harry would have no information about Horcruxes and where to find them, also no-one would know about the one in Harry himself. It would've been such a huge mess, Voldemort would take the power a year earlier than in canon, and they'd probably lose the war, disoriented and unprepared. The person who didn't let all this happen is Severus Snape – because he knew Dark Magic and could use his knowledge to save lives.

Albus was indeed fortunate, extremely fortunate to have Severus.

[kremblor]

We aren't really given an actual canon reason. However, as I opt to ignore the whole McGonagall teacher thing in FBAWTFT movies (as it doesn't make sense with the previously provided info given on her birthday as well by pottermore/wizarding world/whatever they call it now) ..... this 39 years places her hiring as 1956.

We had a birth year for her of 1935 at one point (the wikia had it removed now due to the movies but it was there).

We also know that she previously worked for in the ministry law enforcement department. Was there for like 2 years, before her hiring at Hogwarts. That Albus was STILL head of transfiguration at the time.

This actually tells us a few things about Hogwarts that we dont see later on in the series - the "head of" for subjects isnt just all title because they teach it but because there is other staff there. Minerva likely was replacing someone who was leaving and was operating as a sort of teachers assistant as she got familiar witb the job for the next half of the year.

As well, given her quick climb up the ladder ... Dippet was likely sick and Albus likely trained her for taking over his roles.

'How long have you been teaching at Hogwarts?’ Professor Umbridge asked. 'Thirty-nine years this December,’ said Professor McGonagall brusquely, snapping her bag shut.

-Order of the Phoenix, Ch. 15

Anyone the canon reason for why McGonagall started teaching in the middle of a schoolyear?

[kremblor]

There is also the fact that like .... even when they had those setbacks prior to them .... they often are already speaking with Starfleet brass about the situation. Its not just on them. There is someone of equal/higher rank further directing the situation or being a sounding board for the command decisions. Its not just their senior staff (and that matters).

Think about it. The senior staff is the highest experts in those divisions on the ship/station meant to lead those sections and make recommendations to the commanding officer. But ultimately, its going to be the CO who takes all that info and makes the final decision. However, the structure of Starfleet means that SOME situations mean calling up the brass and so on - which puts the decision either above or into a sort of "Captain think tank" (i.e. multiple ships together with their staffs giving info the captains then think it out and mutually decide - one usually being the final decider).

Sisko and Picard are not the FINAL say at all times. Every single time. They often have fall back and then a chance to properly step away, rejuvenate, and return.

Janeway is the FINAL say at all times, no true equal/superior to help balance that out on, and when it comes time to R&R .... while the ship gets it hers is still ALWAYS going to be filled with command. Even when "handing" over the ship to others its just like any other time - certain situations would mean "cancel the captains R&R" (they'd avoid it as much as possible but sometimes they will have to call her back).

When Picard and Sisko faced great military/personal setback they got to go back to earth for a few weeks and work through some family trauma, meanwhile Janeway just has to sit in an empty holodeck thinking about why killing herself would be detrimental to the crew’s chances of getting home and I feel like that really highlights some character differences

[kremblor]

Okay, okay, if you do this BEFORE the episode you have them trying to work it out for some time before the reveal. And Hetty constantly evading.

Shes weaved this story of accidentally ODing on cocaine over the years so smoothly, never once messed up. Managed it by never revealing to much or just brushing off the story. The key to success wasn't over detail but the lack. A shrug of "went to my room, did some coke, woke up a ghost" no more no less over the years. Brush off need for more, make jokes about cocaine throughout the years and no one will really question right ... right.... right?

Her slip up is probably timing. They have a general idea (Isaac, Thor, and Sass) of when she must have died. So imagine if you will if she tried to obfuscate that one day. One of them mentioning something from her living days, an event at the Manor, casually turning all "remember Hetty". Its close enough in time to her death (just before she left for her vacation of course) so she pulls a quick "No, no ... probably the night I ended up with to much cocaine. How tragic" scurried away before anyone can ask further questions.

Sass "that's weird, her death couldn't have been that night"

Thor gives excuses (Hetty doesn't always like mentions of her pasr, she probably just confused things type excuse)

Isaac goes into "this is suspicious time for drama" mode despite it being his bestie and Alberta is like "yes, lets do this" also despite it being a bestie of hers.

They wait a few days before asking Hetty more about the event she claims not to remember only for Hetty to get frustrated. Pull the "i was in my room!" And bolt (to be clear it's probably something Elias did something at so she doesn't want to recall, easy to pretend she died than think of Elias). So, they wait again, try again this time all "so, Hetty -" and get into her taking drugs all "you seem to have taken prescribed dosages and no more how did you take more than usual?" And again Hetty is all "Everyone should do coke!" Reactive

She just bolts everytime though. Scurried away mid questioning with easily made excuses they cant even use against her because each time she is doing what she said. "Flower needs my help" is with Flower when they go to find her. "I promised Thor a walk" is outside walking with Thor. "Jay has a DnD match im curious to watch" - not her usual but they cant say she isnt watching it. "Sam promised me she would go through the storage" they actually cant find Sam or Hetty anywhere.

But every question setting is pointless. She has answers and escapes. And Isaac never once reveals that he and the others were in a hole (obviously doesn't want to because then gotta reveal the Patience info). So his ultimate intel drop of "i know you couldnt have died that night as we weren't around whenever it happened" is held back.

Then you get to "Holes Are Bad" and Isaac and Alberta are so distracted with the rescue they aren't noticing Hetty's behavior. No one really is. Then Flower tries to risk the dirt, gets scared, and Thor is willingly to jump into the hole - and Hetty would have to risk losing him - and suddenly shes jumping forward all "no". And everyone is getting the reveal they never expected.

Alberta is stunned. Shocked. She never expected this. Never thought THIS be to truth they'd be digging at. She feels guilty for trying to pull this out of her (even if it she knows Hetty tends to hide truths - this is a truth she had a right to share when ready). She apologizes later, when no one else is around, tells her she cares for her and will always be there for her.

Isaac feels so bad about what he did he ran off and reported himself to Sam the moment she got back. All "SAM SAM I JUST SPENT MONTHS TRYING TO FORCE HETTY TO REVEAL WHY SHE WAS LYING ABOUT HER DEATH". Sam is just all "dude is just got through the door, Jay is still getting our bags, can I have five seconds" and his face is falling and shes realizing this is bad. Like bad bad. And whispers "Isaac .. what happened" "Hetty saved Flower from a hole" "Flower isnt gone? Hetty saved her. Holes are bad?" "Yes to all but its only because she had something on her Flower could hold onto and we could pull her out" "That would.... oh. Oh. OH" Sam pauses "Isaac you could have just said it rather than that" "I didnt know if she be okay with that" (cue Isaac doing his nervous movement stuff).

Ok I love Holes Are Bad, this is a known fact, but imagine this for a second

Hetty says something that doesn't quite line up with how she says she died, when asked about it she gives an acceptably vague answer, something is going on here, another case for bangs and pony, they start investigating, finding clues, things just aren't adding up, they confront Hetty about it, they fight, this only fuels their need for answers

And that's as far as I got, feel free to add on, you guys always have such great ideas

[kremblor]

Honestly, part of what makes the Thor/Flower work so well.... is both of them have abandonment issues. The "nothing to relate on" joke with them "haha owls work" is rather surface level when you really look at them. Thor lost everything, was left by his own people, then everytime he lets himself get involved with someone in the after life they end up moving on .... Flower/Susan is so terrified of being alone with 1 person because losing that 1 person be to hard for her.

Now, I love polygamous Susan (and Thor) but I get that fear for both of them. And feel they've reached a point being just together that if their introduced a third to them .... it should be with the intent of confronting their shared issue. I.E. that third ends up leaving ("sucked off") - so if wouldn't want one of the mains for this - and we can get some of them processing that.

Leading to .... the therapy like episodes of this for Susan. And potentially having some of the things not yet revealed to the others (more than Thor and Sam at least) shared - i.e. that she was once engaged and in law school.

Thinking about Flower and her journey and honestly I want to just touch on her trauma.

She grew up around a uncle who got her weed and would stare at her friends to long - the implication of this is rather disturbing (especially given the shows way of simply hinting at more than blatantly saying at times).

She had 3 brothers - one of whom we know was in Vietnam (she thought died), and attempted to get her out of the cult ... also her oldest brother.

She was a talented basketball player ... until shed get high and ruin her chances half way through a game (again see above her Uncle).

She got accepted into law school, was on her way to becoming a lawyer, and was in love. Engaged. Only .... to tragically (medical deaths count as tragic) lose her fiance.

Ended up in communes and cults.

I list this out for a reason because its rather clear her uncle is a starting point. At least for some things (we dont know about 2 of the brothers after all). While i dont care if anyone does weed .... this man had a clear fascination with young girls (staring at her friends in a way that Flower comments on it as a ghost decades later raises red flags) and he is actively giving them weed. This is deliberate. And Susan was clearly talented in school - sports wise and intelligence wise - or for her Uncle to be giving her access to something that is sabotaging her chances in regards to a sports scholarship (again based on the red flag behavior I doubt he teaching proper use at the same time).

She would have likely still been in high school when Vietnam stuff began. The first Vietnam draft was in 1969, same year she died (I mention this as i keep thinking the show said "drafted" - so if so the line up is a bit weird there ... anyways still kinda important to consider). The first troops (Marines) went to Vietname in 1965, Susan by then would have been 27 and thus already past the fiance stuff (either in a communes or cult). So, basically, her brother has probably already tried to help her at least once by now ... and then deploys. And THEN she learns (somehow) of the MIA for him.

I strongly suspect before the fiance one of the other brothers likely died and/or disappeared from the family (ran away or something). Add that to what is going on with the Uncle .... Susan losing her fiance and having a mental health crash over losing ANOTHER person (fearing losing more) and dealing with that upheaval with whatever she can .... makes her an easy target by a commune or cult. Likely, the first was a commune.

Some member or leader pulling a "oh, honey, you won't be alone here we all work together and live together. We help each other daily" - which healthy communal living is great but it seems Susan kept getting sucked into bad ones - only to arrive and sure everyone lives together but its got weird rules and weird sort of "I get to sleep with your girl" as well twisted in. Add the drugs and .... oh well there is a reason why we have laws (well some states do) regarding individual sobriety level (be it drugs or alcohol) and consent.

The communes and cults were actively pushing the drugs. We see what it did for Susan - a bright and talented girl - and her ability to make sound judgements. Now there is a lot of layering to it all and not EVERYONE within the cult/communes were guilty (obviously victims too) but the leaders definitely are - especially the ones deliberately built to take advantage. Susan was not in a good place, and no matter how "good" she may believe she was in ... she was not while in those groups. She believed her brother dead - with no one correcting her until death - and believed she had lost him when she didnt pick him.

It is entirely possible, had he come back ONE more time for her shed have left. Healed, recovered, and managed to find herself a happy and healthy life style (be it with one person or multiple people). But losing her brother (believing it at least) kept her trapped in the cycle she had got pulled into. And ultimately the drugs she kept getting exposed to (acid, cocaine, all that harder stuff) sat on her to the point she went "i can hug a bear".

I wonder how many friends walked away from her because of the creepy uncle. Why haven't we heard about her parents? Why have we only heard about this one brother when we know she had 3? How many people did she lose before having her fiance die in hospital (of who knows what) while she was in LAW SCHOOL caused her to have the crash she did? Because like .... Susan was likely going through law school, dating, falling in love, getting engaged, and doing weed .... WHILE SUCCEEDING. She wasn't suffering. Wasn't falling apart. Wasn't crashing. Sure, shed lose a basketball game because she did a bit to much but obviously she found the balance (she is in law school - she has found a balance of sorts) ..... only for her world, her life to come crashing down around her.

It screams as - every suppressed trauma I have been ignore awoken all at once.

[kremblor]

Okay, but the kid is able to see ghosts. When they first arrive with their parents Hetty is just there in the foyer or Thor or Sass or Isaac. Just one of the older ghosts and you get the kid doing a "whoa look" reaction pointing. Parents doing a "sure sure" just to use to their kid and their 'imaginary friends' or 'oh they like ghosts so much they play ghosts as if they can see them, its cool'

Only for Jay to realize at some point who the kid is actually seeing and rushing off to Sam like "Sam Sam we dont have to act it up for the kid, they can see. Quick grab a ghost lets go"

Cue the "we aren't " reactions from the ghosts present.

This just results in the parents having the best vacation and coming back repeatedly.

Kid spent HOURS telling Hetty about the adventures he had on the property "then I found a tree and climbed it, almost feel. Sorry is that okay? Mrs. Sam said this is your place" "Would you like to see the best tree to climb?" "LADY WOODSTONE CLIMBED TREES?!"

When the kid wakes up during a storm - not wanting to go back to sleep because its to loud - they end up with Thor, Hetty, and Isaac chilling with them till the night passes. Their parents find them sound asleep on a couch and Sam walks in all "oh ohOHH" how does she explain ghosts got their child back to sleep in the middle of the night.

Its meal time, parents "did you wash your hands" kids usual groan and "do i gotta" cue the ghosts desperately holding back Isaac jokes just for Isaac to look at the kid and go "I didnt wash my hands once and died". Kid runs up stairs immediately.

Trevor respectfully avoiding the kid "look i may be a horrible flirt but children dont need to be exposed to inappropriately dressed adults - even if i can't help it" comments. Pete also works to avoid the kid "dont wanna scare them: .... course the kid responds to both rather decently (Pete gets a "cool, sucks though" and Trevor a "maybe I can find you pants" style innocent response).

Flower also was avoiding (for similar reasons above but also her usual obliviousness). Only to stumble upon the kid during a walk they are having with Hetty and Alberta (kid wanted to show them an animal at the lake and lost it or something) .... Hetty and Alberta immediately are all "Flower go" reactive but the kid sees the wounds, face falls, steps before the two woman to look at this new ghost and goes "who hurt you?"

The story of "HE WAS GONNA FIGHT A BEAR" is the thing for like a week and Thor immediately is thrilled by the little warrior they've all taken to.

Basically just this manor becoming this kids home away from home. The parents actually move to the area because vacation is great but the manor is a place they come to adore. Kids first job is the resteraunt.

A really cute plot line would be a little kid eho is obsessed with ghosts wants to have their bday party at the mansion because they heard ghost stories of it being haunted so Sam gets to “play along” for the party. The little kid would ADORE sam and would feel so special

[kremblor]

Thinking about Flower and her journey and honestly I want to just touch on her trauma.

She grew up around a uncle who got her weed and would stare at her friends to long - the implication of this is rather disturbing (especially given the shows way of simply hinting at more than blatantly saying at times).

She had 3 brothers - one of whom we know was in Vietnam (she thought died), and attempted to get her out of the cult ... also her oldest brother.

She was a talented basketball player ... until shed get high and ruin her chances half way through a game (again see above her Uncle).

She got accepted into law school, was on her way to becoming a lawyer, and was in love. Engaged. Only .... to tragically (medical deaths count as tragic) lose her fiance.

Ended up in communes and cults.

I list this out for a reason because its rather clear her uncle is a starting point. At least for some things (we dont know about 2 of the brothers after all). While i dont care if anyone does weed .... this man had a clear fascination with young girls (staring at her friends in a way that Flower comments on it as a ghost decades later raises red flags) and he is actively giving them weed. This is deliberate. And Susan was clearly talented in school - sports wise and intelligence wise - or for her Uncle to be giving her access to something that is sabotaging her chances in regards to a sports scholarship (again based on the red flag behavior I doubt he teaching proper use at the same time).

She would have likely still been in high school when Vietnam stuff began. The first Vietnam draft was in 1969, same year she died (I mention this as i keep thinking the show said "drafted" - so if so the line up is a bit weird there ... anyways still kinda important to consider). The first troops (Marines) went to Vietname in 1965, Susan by then would have been 27 and thus already past the fiance stuff (either in a communes or cult). So, basically, her brother has probably already tried to help her at least once by now ... and then deploys. And THEN she learns (somehow) of the MIA for him.

I strongly suspect before the fiance one of the other brothers likely died and/or disappeared from the family (ran away or something). Add that to what is going on with the Uncle .... Susan losing her fiance and having a mental health crash over losing ANOTHER person (fearing losing more) and dealing with that upheaval with whatever she can .... makes her an easy target by a commune or cult. Likely, the first was a commune.

Some member or leader pulling a "oh, honey, you won't be alone here we all work together and live together. We help each other daily" - which healthy communal living is great but it seems Susan kept getting sucked into bad ones - only to arrive and sure everyone lives together but its got weird rules and weird sort of "I get to sleep with your girl" as well twisted in. Add the drugs and .... oh well there is a reason why we have laws (well some states do) regarding individual sobriety level (be it drugs or alcohol) and consent.

The communes and cults were actively pushing the drugs. We see what it did for Susan - a bright and talented girl - and her ability to make sound judgements. Now there is a lot of layering to it all and not EVERYONE within the cult/communes were guilty (obviously victims too) but the leaders definitely are - especially the ones deliberately built to take advantage. Susan was not in a good place, and no matter how "good" she may believe she was in ... she was not while in those groups. She believed her brother dead - with no one correcting her until death - and believed she had lost him when she didnt pick him.

It is entirely possible, had he come back ONE more time for her shed have left. Healed, recovered, and managed to find herself a happy and healthy life style (be it with one person or multiple people). But losing her brother (believing it at least) kept her trapped in the cycle she had got pulled into. And ultimately the drugs she kept getting exposed to (acid, cocaine, all that harder stuff) sat on her to the point she went "i can hug a bear".

I wonder how many friends walked away from her because of the creepy uncle. Why haven't we heard about her parents? Why have we only heard about this one brother when we know she had 3? How many people did she lose before having her fiance die in hospital (of who knows what) while she was in LAW SCHOOL caused her to have the crash she did? Because like .... Susan was likely going through law school, dating, falling in love, getting engaged, and doing weed .... WHILE SUCCEEDING. She wasn't suffering. Wasn't falling apart. Wasn't crashing. Sure, shed lose a basketball game because she did a bit to much but obviously she found the balance (she is in law school - she has found a balance of sorts) ..... only for her world, her life to come crashing down around her.

It screams as - every suppressed trauma I have been ignore awoken all at once.

[kremblor]

Another good example. I dont even remember what Prodigy ep i was watching when I made this post but the fact a kids animated show expressed her 0 to "I'll destroy you" so well it actually reflects back to Equinox got me laughing

Just a reminder that Janeway will go from 0 to "I will destroy you" fast.

[kremblor]

Honestly I love the way they did this. Like could the show have gone further and shown the desperation (a la Battlestar Galactica style) ... sure ... but the food situation (and the replicator/holodeck rations along with material scrounging gives us hints).

But here is the thing ... we start the series with Tom and his "tomato soup" "there are " "plain tomato soup" - a clear blatant example of just how much information/recipes the replicator holds for a single thing. No, really, consider coffee, black (but how precisely what TYPE of coffee - what style beans, Earth beans or some other species? The ground style? The brew style? Etc etc) or even Picards "Earl Grey, hot). We do get a bit of "as its their usual the computer knows from voice which" explained elsewhere (off screen or in a book or whatever) but that still has to be programmed in for each person per system (ship, base, home, office, etc).

So, the moment Voyager is dealing with a resource deficiency much of the reliance comes from that pre-programed main preference or Neelix for the food. You aren't gonna use your rations up just because basically. And what does Neelix do?

We get told in show a few times he actually looks into the crews history and background. Listens to their stories ("one stack of banana pancakes coming right up" - he replicates it but he does it, and likely the kitchen has a bit more ration use so its not wasting individual ration). Like, i may dislike certain aspects to Neelix's character but that's more the writers choice to not show the growth there. This man looked up crew holidays and cooked meals for them. "This vulcan holiday is celebrated with plomeek soup, rather bland for me but here ya go". He put together events and everything for the crew to keep the morale going - providing the food for it. Was it always great food ... no. But he worked to learn their traditions and cultures so he could bring them a taste of home.

We also get the whole "attempts to steal mushrooms so Chakotay can make mushroom soup" at the beginning of the show. Janeway may not have been "captain chef" (which honestly not just her - Picard and Kirk also weren't cooks, replicate fine sure but not cooks like Pike or Sisko. Don't even think Archer was shown to actually cook) ... but there are those on the crew who were and I like that the show indicates this sort of thing. That Neelix (and Kes with her plants) cared to help this crew along. That others knew how to cook, and likely did.

Tuvok we learn can bake (and likely more), Seven is capable as well, and obviously Chakotay. I guarantee there was at least a few times those 3 convinced Janeway to do a briefing in the mess hall "cook a nice meal for it" "it would only be logical to brew a pot of coffee-" "okay im convinced" .... just i love the food situation.

And that it is immediately presented in the show. Neelix and Kes are outsiders, not "crew", essentially accidentally rescued/caught up in their situation.... and instead of a "get us off this ship now" its a "let us come along, we can help, i can cook. Oh I can start you a garden". Immediately a "you'll definitely be needing resources and food along the way and we know this area plus bonus capable of providing the food and cooking it" - and its shown through Neelix that without him they might have accidentally gathered the wrong stuff and died (not really but it would have taken longer to test everything on ship for edibility - least with his guidance they can scan what he says is good and see if okay for them).

Anyways .... yeah I love the use of the food situation as a way of expressing the ships situation as a whole.

the food situation on voyager is so fucking dire compared to every other star trek series like their chef is cooking for a bunch of alien species he’s never encountered before and has no idea what their palates are like so he’s just throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks, they can barely use the replicators, and they can’t even go over to the captain’s quarters for a nice homecooked crew meal because unlike every other starfleet captain she’s so bad at cooking she can burn replicated water. that’s the real horror of the show tbh

[kremblor]

Honestly its hilarious. And then she pulls the "look i hate time travel but ima break the rules and make that my fix it plan because I can save my crew if I do" and the time police just go "no, no shes right this time lets not fight her this time"

Meanwhile, Chakotay gets lost im time. The rescue gets fumbled and time demons get lose but time watcher Wesley Crusher is all "nah nah Janeway no play in time this time"

Wesley said if you touch it the kids cant learn and it will get fixed in one ep, plus those pesky time police will arrive on my door step probably.

Captain Janeway is one of my favorite characters of all time because she was SO annoying to the time travel police that one of them went insane and tried to kill her. 11/10 no notes.

[kremblor]

I mean .... this is the same woman who has her space bestie miss one phone called and her immediate reaction is basically "rescue plan with a side of prison break"

[kremblor]

i hope you don’t mind me adding on to ur OC idea but

for your painter OC, i thought of the name Charlotte, who Rowan would call Lottie and then they were the first ones to call Henrietta “Hetty.” Her last name could be something like Lysander.

I’m really into name lore and backgrounds so needless info dump warning:

Charlotte “Lottie” is a french origin name meaning ‘free man’ or one who carved their own path (ie suffragette and painter). While Lysander means liberator or ‘to loosen’ deriving from greek.

Rowan, meanwhile, is of IRISH origin meaning ‘red haired’. Walsh, is from the french, and it means someone who travelled across boarders and settled elsewhere.

Whereas Henrietta is of German origin most similar to ‘Home Ruler’ which she does indeed become at the end!

I just think it’s really neat when stories have characters names tell you who they are before their personalities do. Lol, i hope this either helps or was at least an interesting read!

I am all for others giving ideas. I've yet to really build on my female OC, I do like her also being a painter (something that initially bonds her and Rowan before all the "oh you want a better world for everyone as well, sweet" stuff). I mean, I do still technically need to build up Rowan's parents history (as I'm that type of OC builder - I will craft whole families just because I came up with 1 OC. Just "oh hey what if this canon character had this OC character for this reason" proceeds to create OC and the 20 different OCs that craft that OCs life). Anyways, I too generally look into names as I craft characters. Part of why I picked the name Walsh as the last name is during my looking into it I was getting its Irish roots origins (and as a result its UK roots origins) and how it came there as a result of the Anglo-Norman invasion. What I got for it was less about them traveling and more the "foreigner, stranger, welshman, Celt". Either way, it does still fit (and would also give more to the family history given the name).

I really like the name Charlotte Lysander. Lysander sounds like a name that be associated to some well off family, and could easily give cover to Hetty depending on how background wants to get built on things. I mean, if take that route then Charlotte could just coincidentally have the last name or be some tossed off branch type thing but Hetty could pull the "Oh, I may stop and ring the Lysanders while I swing by town. It might be nice to do a tea soon" gets home "Oh, no I ran a bit late I didn't have the time" or genuinely does and "It was a lovely visit, they were rather pleased to see me"

I like the idea of Margaret having a nickname she gives to Hetty - or even like she hears Hetty talking to one of the ghosts one days and going "Hetty? That's not my name silly" and it just sticks as a result between the two sisters. But I could see her two paramours giving her something like Rita, something no one else ever calls her. Mainly because picture it being the barn that they find and decide to turn into a restaurant. Sam hasn't run into Rowan yet, she's taking Jay out there to show him (everyone tagging along of course. Hetty reluctantly following but its her family - she will go there for her family). Sam so caught up in everything she doesn't even notice the tension in Hetty. That Thor, Isaac, and Sass are just a tad closer to her. Flower taking cue and lopping and arm into Hetty's who smiles softly at her that "I shall tolerate your antics" smile she gives. Alberta, Pete, and Trevor leading the way (aware but also not poking into whatever drama is going on behind them - they got all the time to do that after all).

Then, as Sam is explaining, she has to stop because she finally notices and just makes a "Is everything okay" comment, about to directly address Hetty - explain to Jay as well - only for Rowan to drop into the picture. No really, it be poetic if just like Hetty nearly fell onto him as children for their first meeting, that he was trying to hide in a loft that has barely managed to survive and he just .... falls. Barely missing Hetty - who of course is pulled back by Thor. And before anyone can say anything its just "Rita?"

[kremblor]

Okay, so as i wait for night to pass in my minecraft world.... have some more of my OC idea:

Under a cut as it got a bit long

His story takes a bad turn sorry all:

Right now, I have him named Rowan Walsh but am debating over changing that. He immigrated over from Ireland in the 1850s, specifically his mother immigrated over with him. He started working for the Woodstones when he was 10 (Samuel gave him the role as his mother was already working in the kitchens). He was initially just going to help with whatever the house needed but as he seemed rather decent around the hourses those who worked the stables and coaches opted to get his tasks set around them. They also learned early on the boy spent his down time drawing in dirt, carving on branches he found, whatever he could to "get the images from my head" as he expressed.

So, those training him used bits of their earnings to get him charcoal and a parchment book. It was during one of his downtime (around 12) that he first meet Hetty. Mainly because she fell out of a tree and just barely managed to avoid landing on him. Terrified hed lose his job if Samuel Woodstones daughter was hurt around him .... he almost ran ... but the first words she uttered was "you should draw from the tree. Better view" before she turned to try to climb it again. Of course, he deemed it necessary to follow ... couldnt let he get hurt. His job was at stake here.

It became very common for the servants around the house to find these two together, with Margarete helping to hide her sisters sneaking a stable boy into the house ("really Hetty, father be livid if he knew you had the help in his study" "I had to show him the new painting we got, oh we got a statue in storage you should see too").

Its Sass that is standing watching the two one day when Hetty whispers softly "do you think some people can see what others dont?" "Do you?" "I dont know. I think i did once" (her eyes would probably flicker to where Sass is as if she can see or feel him). Rowan doesn't judge her, just tells her that some people have gifts others cant and the world should treasure those gifts. She looks at the drawing hes working on and just whispers a soft "yeah".

Hetty falls for Rowan over time. She doesn't even notice at first. Being around him is natural to her. Margaret notices, Hetty always enjoyed her friend but there becomes a shift when things happen and Hetty seems to look off to the stables. As if she desperately wishes to share her life with him. Or when they have to go off to some event or are hosting one ... and her eyes fill with this look - as if a piece of her is missing in that moment. Should be standing beside her. Margaret aches for her sister. Its not till one of the men working the stables comes into the house begging a doctor to be called for that it hits Hetty. A deep fear grips her as she jumps from her seat and moves forward - Samuel looking at her as if shes grown two heads - turns out while trying to tame a horse one of the other servants got thrown and trampled. Its not Rowan, but its in that moment Hetty realized she cant lose him.

Rowan also develops feelings over time, but he noticed faster. For him it was in one of her tree climbing moments. Watching a full grown woman, decked out in all the of her finery from a tea gathering, sit upon a branch as if it was the most natural thing, hanging herself as upside as she could given the attire .... it had his chest swelling and clinching and he knew then that he would give her the world if he could.

He was raised to never accept being less than, that one could always change their fate, that you could fight back and demand better. So, in his way he does. He supports movements - some of his art being for it, and some of his art just being various other things - and upon realizing what little Hetty was allowed to truly explore... he started sneaking her books and things to the stables. Hed tell her about so many things. On one of the times he was her driver out to town, he also - despite trying to warn her the risks as she kept insisting he must bring her - brought her along to meet one of his friends involved in the suffrage movement. (I gotta create this OC).

She further introduces Hetty to things and well ... they all got two hands.

Of course, we all know how the story goes. A painting gets made and Samuel throws a fit. Im half tempted to have that painting be by the female OC I need to create. That Rowan takes the blame for - in order to prevent Hetty being exposed as having meet her, her being exposed at all, and preserving both woman's reputation from the idea of being involved should word get out. Ultimately, Rowan and Hetty's story comes to a tragic end. Rowan never gets to learn from her directly why she never came back to the stables after the painting - especially when Elias appears on the property as she usually seeks solace away from both her father and him away from the house.

He's forced to watch as the announcement of engagement is made to the staff. He stands in silence as she refuses to look at him, arm in arm with a man she never once seemed to care for. A smile upon her face as if this was what she always desired. A hand pressed just beneath her ribcage and his heart clenches. He fears what they did to her. He never considered fearing what they could do to him, not even when he was working the stables late one night. Tending to the horses and the sound of steps behind him - growing shadows in the dim light of the barn arching over him - halted his work.

Elias and Samuel made sure he did not survive that night. Though, he does become a ghost. This is where it can shift around based on needs for things. As I largely see how he goes out ... well its Elias and Samuel. Their main goals are basically remove the problem (i.e. ensuring Hetty won't go back) and make the problem suffer. So, if wanting Rowan discovered when the barn is ... then largely hes a ghost on the property that knew how to hide from the others rather well (and Hetty likely avoided barn due to memories up until Sam's presence). If want it before/after that then "others in the dirt" is possible as well.

As to the other OC i need to craft - she has no name or history yet. However I can picture her coming to the manor at some point , probably a few times - and ultimately that leading to her demise as well. The final time being an attempt to help Hetty leave and that going badly. Again, becomes a ghost and reveal be how so desire - another in the dirt? Been hiding out? Etc etc

For me, it makes sense that these two would hide on the property as ghost. After all, they could watch Hetty's life but it probably be easier on them to just watch her come and go vs the torment she goes through. And unless the other ghosts are there when they die (which i HC they were distracted elsewhere) they aren't really welcomed. I could see Rowan following my female OC as far as he is willing - if not in the dirt - and then helping her after, the two finding decent hiding spots. Then its the fun game of who gets discovered first and so on. Also, could do a "fell in hole" thing for them as well.

Basically- many ways to do the undiscovered thing even if originally not in a hole/in the dirt. It fits that while they'd desperately want to see Hetty - watching what Elias will do to her is not something they'd want to do (and then have to explain that to her?). Though I suspect they likely had no choice at times (It wouldnt all have be restricted to the manor).

Anyways, if anyone has other name ideas or ideas for my female OC feel free to share. In good HC news - I do imagine Hetty's first child(twins actually) being Rowan's (or at least one of the twins). And its that child that Sam descends from.