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lacktastrophe · 3 months ago

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My question about Lucy, Paulo, and Daisy was prompted by Rain Check. We see Paulo say that she’s cruel and assume she brought Daisy there to rub things in before he goes to wash the dishes instead. There’s a panel that shows her upset in the page after this Then when she gets back to the table Daisy assumes she just wants to make fun of her crushes. They kinda just think the worst of Lucy when she’s trying to help. They have their entire talk and end up dating. There’s never a point where they apologize for assuming the worst or acknowledge that she’s been supportive. Paulo’s the worst offender since he went from the interaction in Double Down to asking for her help in Seeing Stars and then to assuming she only brought Daisy to spite him. Then seemingly to friendly again after that. Which is red flags tbh because jumping from being chill with someone to that level of aggression to talking to them like nothing happened is genuinely not good. But it was the page you mentioned that was the reason I asked since it was their interaction after everything. I’d get why it wouldn’t come up at the end of a chapter that already had a lot of discussion and clearing things up between Paulo and Daisy. The page in the current chapter where they’re acting like everything’s all good after both openly just assumed her intention is to hurt them with no ‘hey, I guess you were trying to help’ or ‘sorry for saying you only came here to remind me of how awful I am’

It would just be nice to see that cleared up. I like their interactions but it’s a glaring issue that they’ll be okay with her only to turn on a dime and assume she just wants to make fun or outright put them down

This got sent on the 5th, sorry Anon. I found time to log into Tumblr.

Thanks for clarifying. In that case (or in any case) I went on a huge tangent without really getting to what you wanted to get to.

I think the bulk of the answers come back as the summary of the last post where I detailed the kids rely on a perception of Lucy that goes back to their childhood and how Lucy behaved. Paulo and Daisy's treatment is a defensive reaction because historically, the aloof, snarky, indifferent and abrasive Lucy never previously involved themselves in her friend's issues, more often than not finding them a source of entertainment.

These moments are still valid despite how long ago this happened for the friend group because there's just been a huge absence of Lucy and few chances to show she's different from back then. We, of course, are aware as readers of a different perspective of Lucy having been able to follow her and knowing better traits that exist in her character, but that is not something the other kids are privy to. Since her return to the school, to them, she's been just as absent as she was just before her disappearance.

We're only seeing some meaningful investment in the people around her now. Lucy doesn't want to be seen this way, so the onus is on her to changing this perspective, and she can do this through investing in others.

The reception she's getting appears meanspirited, but it isn't completely unfair. There is merit to her colleagues suspicion given the lack of evidence she's not the same person as she was back then. Lucy is acutely aware of this being the case too. We know this from her nightmares.

As much as we want to believe in Lucy we have to admit she just hasn't made huge strides in convincing others yet that she isn't like those times or dependable in this way in particular. The way things went down in Seeing Stars sets the tone for where Lucy is right now and what we're set for in future chapters. Quite simply, there's a lot to do, and Lucy really hasn't helped herself here either by telling Paulo to fuck off this time. Granted, she doesn't owe him anything. But friendship is a two way street. Lucy had bemoaned in the past how her friends abandoned her in her time of need, yet here she is abandoning Paulo in his time of need. This isn't conductive to fixing those ties as we see when people start doubting her despite her best intentions.

As much as this comes across as a Paulo Fumble, it's very much a Lucy fumble, which Lucy does acknowledge on her own. Having acted the way she did made her seem like she was indifferent to his plight, not at all trying to convince others that she isn't like back then and undoing the baggage carried from her nightmares. So Paulo's reaction in Raincheck is justified and not too unsurprising when she just shows up out of the blue with Daisy from his perspective.

Seeing Lucy admit that her reaction was absolutely uncalled for is pretty great for her because we get to recognise that this is an area where she is trying to productively work towards changing her image. But this isn't like the time when she returned to the school like in Love-Again where she made deliberate attempts to subvert expectations by not behaving how they thought she'd behave like. This has everything to do with investing in other people, something she just didn't do years ago and hasn't been able to do until now for various reasons. Despite how good this development is, it isn't without becoming very uncharacteristic of her according to the others, which has everyone on the defense considering the timing.

The flashback in Dial Tone is the kind of reception people like Mike would find when they tried venting their spleen to Lucy in the past.

And since they're not Mike, well, anything could happen.

This perception isn't necessarily shared by just Daisy and Paulo either, the aforementioned part of Lucy's childhood is known by a lot of their colleagues, as we see a point in It's all in the mind where Lucy needed to pre-empt a reaction from Amaya to clarify that she's not being intently snarky to them as an example.

The same reassurance needed to happen twice in Rain-Check in order for Lucy to further convince Daisy she's absolutely serious about becoming involved in their problems.

This is sadly what Lucy is needing to wear from months of not having worked on changing her perception since her return. The reception Lucy is receiving is mean, but she isn't intentionally letting herself get riled up on things either, so I feel she might realise it's not totally uncalled for considering whom she used to be and what she's trying to do.

Moving on, besides the threat of being made fun of, Daisy's apprehension towards Lucy's offer to help, while rude, is just Lucy having her credentials checked out when it comes to this topic. Having not been too successful with relationships given her childhood to now and lacking experience (and completely flubbing it with Paulo AND Mike), it's fair to say that Lucy wouldn't be Daisy's first pick when it comes to the advice she's after. Particularly when it comes to confessing and not having everything turn to shit. (Unrequited.) It's not supposed to be rude, but it is to show that Lucy is just not the right person for this task sadly.

All of this makes "Rain-Check" a bit of an ironic chapter, because while the Rain-Check is initially seen as the check-in on Paulo and Daisy's relationship, the same is true for parts of Lucy. Whether that's working on her image or working on her relationships, aspects of which have caught up with her, and the changes we've been waiting for.

Still consider that from Daisy's perspective, as much as Lucy might be trying to make a meaningful investment, the one thing the kids probably all recognise is that they all don't know each other too well (a great theme of this chapter too considering Paulo never knew Daisy's affection for him).It's just uncharacteristic of Lucy to be like this, so it wouldn't be unfair to wonder if she's just looking for entertainment. And we're asking a lot of Daisy to lower her own walls at great personal risk of being made fun of when her heart really hurts. It could be said things would have been different had Lucy worked on things earlier, but she didn't. Sadly her nightmares made her run like in Seeing Stars. Not literally run, but we've seen moments where Lucy just doesn't work on the things that end up dogging her.

When it comes to Paulo's treatment of Lucy, I feel like there's a lot more going on enough to worry about him. The guy has been fucked around by her a fair amount! There had been a moment where Paulo was sure as hell that he had a chance with her up until that very moment on the Ferris Wheel when everything fell to pieces, and every other interaction past that he'd manage to fumble up in one way or another. It's not too surprising to see him viewing things with ill-intent when you consider (ignoring his current mental soup) that after so many consecutive flops to bring her over after the carnvial, he might have realised at some point he knows nothing about her, and has to fallback on the same perception of her that everyone else is all but certain of. The only thing he can be sure about is the kind of person she was like when they were younger, as everything post Silvershore might as well have been his imagination, considering the mixed messages and signals he got with Lucy after that point.

Ironically, that means as much shit Paulo gave Mike about his imaginary girlfriend, he'd really done the same, but not without a partial hand by Lucy.

That's harsh to write about. But as much as Paulo had been the main-maestro to his own misfortune, it's inconceivable to think that Lucy didn't have a have a hand in this either. His reaction is not too far-gone considering his mental-headspace at this time.

As much as we want to believe in Lucy's intentions being pure here, Paulo's impressions of her is pretty fucked up thanks to what she's done to him. So he's justified to view things with ill-intent here. What else does he really have?

But this is good to have happened.

Lucy being confronted by this is good for her development, and rather than running away, she resolves then to try and do better.

She sits down opposite Daisy, and listens.

I get you that there's a distinct absence of acknowledgement from Paulo or Daisy at the end of the chapter towards Lucy, and even in the following chapter. That sucks!!!

But in defense to the story and two points to make: Outside of inviting Daisy to the fast food joint so she could be closer towards Paulo, Lucy wasn't the person who "fixed" anything from the perspectives of people who don't have access to her perspective like we do.

It would be purely coincidental that Paulo just happened to have been there to overhear everything. We can't blame her left ear, she didn't even expect him to be right there.

The other is through Lucy not seeking acknowledgement herself. Lucy not making a point of being the reason they're both now together could lead into something bigger and more meaningful down the road rather than claiming credit and undoing what Paulo and Daisy reached as a couple. We know better as readers, knowing that Lucy had pushed them together when both boiling points hit their peak, but I feel even if we retained Lucy's perspective to see her real thoughts on this, this is something that's better given to them both reaching this point rather than making it about her.

This is going to be a long agonising road as readers if you're looking for acknowledgements because I don't think they're going to come in the way people are expecting them to come. There's a lot of groundwork and lost time to cover for Lucy to get to that point where her involvement is recognised. But I feel these are adding up to something bigger in the long-run.

Hang in there, Anon.

#bittersweet candy bowl #bcb

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lacktastrophe · 3 months ago

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I'll get back to you again in a few hours Rain-Check anon, I promise.

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lacktastrophe · 4 months ago

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made some fun human designs for the @bittersweetcandybowl main 4!

#bcb #bittersweet candy bowl

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lacktastrophe · 4 months ago

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Why do you think Lucy talks to Daisy and Paulo when they’ve been such awful friends to her, especially lately. She’s been pretty blank around them lately but they’ve just blamed her and assumed she was doing things to spite them. In Rain Check it was honestly infuriating and she just stayed and was chill with it. The two literally end up dating because she wanted to help them along and brought her to BurgerTron. But no apology for assuming the worst of her and outright saying that to her face. And that’s not even getting into how Paulo came up to her and asked her for advice on Daisy when their previous interaction was him saying that she was sleeping with the guy who saved her life. And even if he doesn’t know the full context of her situation with Augustus, he knew he was being deliberately petty and rude. There’s a level of shamelessness in going to someone for romantic advice after that was your last interaction with them, especially with no apology. Lucy wasn’t always great to her friends before. She used to be really bad. But she went to therapy, changed, apologized, and told them it wasn’t right for her to do that. I could add how Daisy talked poorly about Lucy behind her back to Mike (in the same chapter as that fight with Paulo) out of nowhere even though she made sure to get her a present for her birthday and convinced (albeit aggressively) Paulo to go to her birthday. They just assume the worst all while she’s been helping them. And neither apologizes. I used to like Paulo since he got such great development but seeing this is just so disappointing. It’s gotten to the point where I believe Paulo and Daisy are both wrong when they say the other is too good for them. They’re both being awful. And there’s never any conversation about that.

For a moment I was surprised and thought Tumblr had bumped the message character limit up. This one came around while I was interstate so I couldn't get around to responding to it until I got back recently. I've been having a fairly hard time understanding the ask because of this sentence in particular: She’s been pretty blank around them lately but they’ve just blamed her and assumed she was doing things to spite them

This was sent in on the 19th and as that was also the day page 4 of Third Wheel was released, I have to assume that day's page prompted the message.

No one's having any conversation about what you described because that is not what's happening. I needed to check the previous chapter again too but to no avail, so I'm guessing you're describing that day's page???

This is not spite in any case. Daisy is put off by Lucy's non-chalant response to the news of her new relationship because everyone had been expecting this. She's happy for them, but she, and by extension the whole school had expected this for years.

We were made ESPECIALLY aware of this too.

Comparatively there had been more meaningful surprise when Daisy found herself in a relationship with the wildcard, Abbey. Who saw that one coming?

I'm pretty sure the last few pages have made this more than clear too with how we've seen Daisy go through most of the school looking for a reaction, but only getting a "Oh yeah we expected that to happen" from a lot of her colleagues.

Secrets out, sorry Daisy!

Despite all this, I don't agree with this idea that Paulo and Daisy are necessarily bad friends particularly when the worst we've encountered so far have concerned disagreements -- in the way that all three of them have made particularly misunderstood readings into each others intentions, motivations and actions from previous behaviours when they were much younger that they're all trying to move away from. An example of this is the time in It's all in the mind when Daisy was particularly envious of Lucy's ability to draw attention and having a particular image of how Lucy must relish in the attention, only for Lucy to shout her down.

This was not the only time a record was straightened out between these two. This had also occurred in the conclusion of Confrontation, when earlier Daisy only believed Lucy was hanging around Mike was because he was an easy target for her violent personality. She expected Lucy would've bailed on them when Alejandro confronted them in the alley, only for the opposite to happen, which resulted in Daisy giving some thought to their friendship and wanting to start things over.

The disagreement Daisy had in 'It's all in the mind' doesn't immediately undo the years she'd put in trying to be a better friend post-confrontation. It doesn't negate the thought to have a birthday party for her nor her attempt to help her when Mike wouldn't reciprocate her feelings. Granted, in the moments where Lucy did need a friend to rally with her whom was absent, how could Daisy know? Really? Lucy keeps her problems to herself never being the one to bother others with her own problems. She isn't wired that way, and there was no way for Daisy to know any better until it was much too late.

It's a question whether Lucy knows of this inside or not. But regardless! Neither have given up on each other and we could believe there are other values that maintain their relationship; they trust in each other for one - like we saw in Witch Hunt where despite Augustus' presence, Daisy chose to trust in Lucy's judgement and her ability to keep him in line if he tried anything.

I don't want to write another comparison over Paulo and Lucy's relationship like I did with Daisy's just now, but I'm sure we can both agree that between Paulo's mishandling of his inability to be that shoulder for Lucy that Augustus has taken over residency as, and Lucy's mishandling of their relationship before she left -- mark examples of the difficulty these two similarly stubborn characters experience especially when their emotions run high. Apologies aren't expected between those two, it's just not on the forefront on their minds and we can see how everyone else remains friends with them to know that this is honestly expected. (Or they chose to pity them, you know.) It comes eventually, but it takes a while.

They're friends, deep down. They do rely on each other from time to time. But it is hard to see this especially in light of recent developments and with how one of these only considered Mike to be their only friend for much of a time, and is now on the fence about the others. But the one thing that tends to exist in friendships here are compromises . So despite how shitty they tend to get some times, lines aren't necessarily crossed in these friendships.

Anyway, I think the real answer to your question is that Lucy doesn't really know herself why she bothered to help out -- yet. But we can deduce from how Lucy has always shown to have a maternal side while in her safe places when she was raising her pets, her innate personality is someone who wants to help out others. And as we can expect with this type of person, while they ultimately want to help those around them, we can be sure this often comes with them struggling to find solutions to their own problems.

I need to point this out because you used the word, but the therapy you think Lucy got is not the one you're writing about. Lucy's family is not aware of her decline in mental health and the nightmares -- she's much too stubborn to show that vulnerability to them.

Augustus has remained the only person she's confided this knowledge in, and this is the contention we see in Seeing Stars, as Augustus knows Lucy's mother is an available source of support, if Lucy could bring herself to trust her family with her problems.

I would find it EXTREMELY unlikely given Lucy's stubbornness when it comes to her family learning about her vulnerabilities she would've weighed the risks of divulging anything that wasn't to do with the suicide attempt to the psyche ward therapist, as given the circumstances it would've likely anything could've been relayed to her family in some way.

Lucy didn't return a changed person, she's remained the same person she was when she returned from when she was six months ago. We were lead to believe this was the case when she came back with the stoic-aloofness she'd displayed, but it was reminiscent of her past-self when she was younger and chose to appear indifferent to the things going on around her and not fulfil expectations, all while she gauged whether or not certain relationships were what they seemed.

But yeah anon these things you're describing aren't exactly happening. You're right they could be better friends and say Sorry better, but I think the last couple of volumes have shown how empty saying 'Sorry' can be sometimes.

#bcb #bittersweet candy bowl

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lacktastrophe · 6 months ago

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It took a few years but we’re finally here!!

#bcb #bittersweet candy bowl

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lacktastrophe · 6 months ago

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What do you think about Jessica's play? Did she write Rina and Marshall so unpleasant and flat accidentally, because she isn't a skilled writer, or she definately have complaints to Rachel and Matt and it was a provocation to a quarrel?

Did you mean Morris? Morris and Rina? Morris was the character that Matt finds himself partly based off, at least with being regarded as a pushover. His backstory originates from Rachel's history with her brother being assaulted by Roger. Rina encapsulates Rachel's aloof nature, but she's written as the comedic character. They're both supporting characters and likely designed the way they were to prop Juniper up as a character to root for. They both represent forms of apathy, whether rolling over or turning a blind eye to Teagan and the injustices they faced, and gives the audience a stronger reason to emphasise and relate with Juniper, who was a more serious character comparatively who wanted to fix things.

You've asked a good question. I don't feel we can answer any of those we reach a new chapter though to see if the damage from the play is long-lasting and whether or not Jessica wasn't necessarily thinking when she was writing the characters, or if there's something deeper here and her writing was instead venting. There's a chance that this could just be a thing that gets resolved in the background at the same time, it could lead to a splintered senior group.

Veronica, not keen on dealing with spoilers, being expectedly somewhat ominous on that front...

But it would be an interesting development if we find it had larger repercussions much later as Jessica has largely appeared as a level-headed supporting character for a long time. But we had seen some early warning sides that, well...Jessica might be willing to hold a grudge for a lot longer than we thought. That one time in Class of 2008 where she wasn't as forgiving as Rachel, for example.

I think it's pretty clear from how this chapter ends that Jessica, despite being pretty defensive initially that the characters had no relationship, ends up admitting that her writing shared a lot of her feelings, and perhaps too maybe her grievances with the people around her who had either decided to be apathetic about the situation, especially since she had found herself quite on her own when it came to dealing with the slander. Whether it was her feelings taking over her writing or something deliberate, we don't know yet.

We see this idea come to fruition when Jessica's main defense against these accusations is plausible deniability, much like a Southpark disclaimer "characters and events represented are entirely fictional and any resemblance to any alive person is completely accidental", and even gaslights Matt and Rachel when drawing conclusions between Aaron and Albert.

This works for a bit until it becomes less likely the case when Jordan gets involved and Jessica admits Tess may have been the benchmark for Teagan and not Tiffany, opening up the room for possibility for Matt and Jessica that their suspicions are right.

And further so when the two girls who made fun of Jessica initially when Tess spread the rumors come to apologise, and Tess admits there might have been a few layers from her personal life that might've influenced her story.

Even further blown apart when Jessica shies away from Madison when Rachel gives her the possibility of an idea she had a character based on her too.

Things wrap up as we expect towards the end and we see a bit deeper into the feelings, where one side wishes there was one communication, but one would rather wear their heart on their sleeve given the opportunity.

But yes, I guess we'll find out where this goes in the future. There is a chance this will get resolved quickly given their status as supporting characters, then again, the seniors have had it too good this year and they need some drama. It will be a question if whether Jessica bundling up her feelings for too long will have resulted in a fractured seniors table or just some animosity between close friends.

As far as the writing goes though, I feel Jessica might've had a better play in the end of things given she was able to attain an awful lot; venting her feelings, being the hero, appealing to a few people and even getting an apology out of it. But having a successful play at the cost of friendships is likely all the more reason to believe that the plays are cursed and will turn into a disaster no matter who the writer is.

Credence for Sue I guess lol.

#bcb #bittersweet candy bowl

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