lotrrulz

[lotrrulz]

Thank you for putting this all into words!!! I agree so much and it's nice to see I'm not the only one.

My absolute favorite thing in Descendants 3 (besides the soundtrack, which is 🔥🔥🔥) is the progression of Mal's realtionship with Hades. I have a weak spot for those kinds of relationships so it obviously won me over from the first second. All her life, Mal's only knowledge about her father was what her mother has told her - and considering this whole "you abandoned me when I was a baby" thing and her attitude towards him, Maleficent hasn't told her anything remotely positive. And then he jumps out with "No. I left your mother." implying that there's a whole story behind it, a story Mal doesn't know about and fuck, did they realy had to put this whole thing in the last movie of the franchise? There could be a whole ass angsty backstory, where Hades wanted this kid, wanted to be in his daughter's life, but Maleficent, being not the easiest person to get along with, did something to prevent that. She had always wanted power - she says in the first movie how she and Mal can rule together. Why Maleficent would even want to share? I don't think she would. Mal is a witch demigod - if you're familiar with Percy Jackson novels, you know how powerful that kind of combination can be. To have such a power bomb as a kid? Yeah, it's obvious she would want to keep this to herself. So Hades had no choice but to leave. But he still keeps an eye on his daughter from the distance. I mean, the way their first scene was written? Their first interaction in the movie? It's obviously not their first meeting, even if they are not in each other's lives. Mal holds a life-long grudge against him, thanks to her mother no less, and Hades, after 16 years of dealing with this bullshit, just plays the part. But during the song his real emotions sometimes leak through the facade. I'm sorry, but the line "I've given you everything by giving you nothing" hit me hard. It means that he actually believed Mal would be better of without him. But then he sings "How 'bout I go with you and we'll spend some time?" and "Let's make new memories, you can show me the town" meaning he wants to catch up and reconcile. But of course Mal sees some kind of hidden agenda behind it - for her, he's doing it because she's going to be queen soon and he wants to take advantage for that. If you analyze the lyrics, their entire number, despite having a happy, rock and roll upbeat melody, is extremely sad and angsty. She then demands the ember from him, and he gives it to her in the end - and why would he give away his only source of power? Because she's his daughter, and he can see how much of him is actually in her, even though she was raised by Maleficent. She's confident, she gets what she wants and she's not afraid to ask and demand. And he's proud - if the "That's my girl" comment is any indication. Then Celia reveals to Mal that Hades was "always asking about her" and this is the first time Mal has a proof that he actually cares. But she pushes it to the back of her mind, because there's more immediate problem at hand.

When they bring him to Auradon by the end of the movie, Mal gets another proof. "Actually he might do it for me." she says but she gambles. She doesn't know if he will come to save Audrey. Why would he even care? But he came. Because she was the one to ask. You think he would come if it was the Beast or Audrey's Family to ask? No way. He says "I didn't have much choice." but I feel like it's more about not having a choice in being dragged there by guards, handcuffed, than about agreeing to come. He does it all for Mal. No hidden agenda. If there was one, he wouldn't let those guards handcuff him again, he wouldn't be so calm about it. And when they take him away... Mal's face broke me. It was like she wanted to say "wait, no! Don't take him!" and then she gathered up the courage to go after him. That whole scene made me weep. All it took was "I'm gonna have to miss you all over again." and I'm sobbing. Maybe I'm reaching, but for me, when he said "Thanks for the glimpse of the sun", it meant so much more than that. And when Mal kisses his cheek... It's a Thank you, I forgive you, I'll miss you and I love you all in one. He gives her the ember back (again, his main source of power) and winks at her, as if to say keep it, it's yours. She holds it to herself, tears streaming down her face and I think this is the moment she makes a decision to take down the barrier. Because there's no way she ever wants to be separated from him again.

Which brings us to their best (or at least the cutest) scene in the movie.

"Am I invited to the wedding?"

At this point I was jumping on my bed, screaming. What an entrance! Kudos to Ben being completely frozen, even though he was able to keep his cool durring their first meeting. But it was business then. He was a king back there. Now he's boy who is facing his girlfriend's (well, fiance's) scary dad for the first time. You thought Maleficent was bad? Well, buckle up! And Mal just jumps into her father's arms with that cute laugh and my heart melts every time I'm watching this scene. And how Hades smiles at her and slowly hugs her back, first one arm, then the other, and then he just snuggles to her and I think he even kisses her head, and I'm here like 😍😍😍 At this point you know that past is the past, they're both ready to start over and rebuild this relationship, and they couldn't be happier about it. A new beggining indeed. And I love how Hades shows his approval for her relationship with Ben, saying he's sure they will be happy together, and Mal is beaming. But the moment she doesn't look, The Scary Dad jumps out and he gives Ben this look that had me dying on the floor. I'm watching you. Hurt her and I'll end you. We stan a Protective Dad!Hades, YES! And Ben... Well, even beasts can be afraid sometimes. 😂😂

Oh, what I would give to see how it progresses further, and a prequel movie would be nice. Or a novel. Or at least fanfiction. I know this movie has been out for like only two days, but fanfic writers, chop chop! I'm starving 😂.

I love this whole thing with my whole heart and I wish we could get more. Congrats to Dove Cameron and Cheyenne Jackson - their chemistry was off the charts and their voices were perfectly matched. Well done, Kenny Ortega. 👏👏👏

Extra kudos for one more small detail - I love how Mal's hair got more and more blue every time she used the ember. Nice little thing they put there.

[lotrrulz]

Thank you OP for putting this into words!

I just want to say to my fellow female Tolkien fans that we should not feel ashamed for loving these books that are admittedly male-centric.

It’s tempting to call Tolkien a sexist for including so few female characters in his legendarium - and I admit that yes he was not entirely free of sexism - but we must remember that the women he did include are the epitome of girl power and some of the best role models we could ask for: strong and willful and noble and brave, without sacrificing their femininity to prove themselves.

It’s glorious to me how you can flip through the books and see page after page of men doing everything … and then suddenly:

There’s Varda creating the Stars, Sun, and Moon!!

There’s Yavanna saving her trees by inspiring the creation of the Ents!!

There’s Melian making an Elf king forget his own people and then shielding an entire kingdom!!

There’s Lúthien defeating Sauron himself AND Morgoth himself!!!

There’s Idril preventing the complete annihilation of her people by creating the secret path out of Gondolin!!

There’s Galadriel resisting the One Ring!!

There’s Éowyn killing the lord of the Nazgûl!!

There’s Ioreth saving the victims of the Black Breath through her knowledge that the king will be the healer!!

There’s Arwen bridging the gap between Elves and Men as Queen of Gondor!!

There’s 100-year-old Lobelia beating Ruffians with her umbrella and leaving money in her will to help homeless hobbits!!

There’s Rosie raising 13 kids while simultaneously serving the whole Shire as Mistress of Bag End!!

There’s Elanor guarding and preserving the Red Book so that we can read it now!!!

That’s why I just can’t hold too big of a grudge about this. Yes, Tolkien didn’t write female characters too often, and it would’ve been fantastic if there were more. But when he did write them, they were amazing.

And on top of that, his male characters display literally our dream level of healthy masculinity in a man. Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Faramir, etc. are our wish fulfillment. We have every right to enjoy that.

[lotrrulz]

Love, love, LOVE this! Everything about this entire thread is perfection! Thank you OP for posting, and everyone else for chiming in so perefectly.

As pointed out LWJ would become very disillusioned, which is one reason I think that LWJ kind of gives Count Dooku vibes. Then there is also the aristocratic background, disciplined persona, disagreement with the way that things are done by the ruling body (senate and Jedi Council for Dooku, sect politics for LWJ), and don't forget Dooku's fall was pushed over the edge by a loved one's death.

Also WWX gives me some Obi-wan vibes (and not just because I am biased to him). Especially young Obi-wan in Legends, the willingness to sacrifice self for the benefit of others, interest in academics (though I can't currently recall how much of that is fanon vs cannon for Obi-wan), molding himself to best suit the situation a la YLLZ or perfect Jedi, plus the whole infinite sadness thing is very WWX. The biggest difference is the fact that Obi-wan was able to grow up and hide his crazy stunts better (see jumping out of a who knows how tall building to catch a droid) while WWX died before he could learn to mask it.

Just my contribution to the totally correct point OP originally made.

So I was thinking about Star Wars and The Untamed—as you do—and not to be like, “hot take,” but regardless of who went dark side in canon, Wei Wuxian would actually make a much, much better Jedi than Lan Wangji would.

[lotrrulz]

I can just imagine Palpatine slowly combusting during this as all his careful planning goes down the drain :D

Soresu Negotiations

“Get help,” Palpatine said. “You’re no match for him. He’s a Sith Lord.”

Obi-Wan turned to look at the Chancellor. “...yes?” he said. “But he’s also something else – something I’m surprised you’ve forgotten.”

“What?” Palpatine asked.

“A politician,” Obi-Wan replied, turning back to Dooku.

Anakin groaned, then sat down.

“Here we go,” he said.

Palpatine blinked, looking from Anakin to Obi-Wan.

“...what do you mean, Anakin?” he asked.

“This happens sometimes,” Anakin replied. “How do you think he got his nickname?”

“Count,” Obi-Wan said, at about the same time. “It’s occurred to me that I never actually found out what the Confederacy wants.”

“Isn’t it a little late for this?” Dooku asked. “We have been at war for several years.”

“True,” Obi-Wan conceded, readily. “The war having started on Geonosis, because of tracing back your clone army which we… appear to have appropriated, mostly because you did it in our name. But that’s how the war started – not your objectives.”

Dooku was silent for a moment.

“I assume some semblance of a point will be emerging,” he said, eventually. “If you could be so kind as to provide it?”

“Wars begin for all sorts of reasons,” Obi-Wan replied. “But how they end… they end because a mutual settlement has been reached. And it’s occurred to me that I don’t know what you’d want out of a victory.”

He spread his hand, the one not holding the – unlit – saber. “It’s not the conquest of the Republic, I can tell that much. If the CIS annexed the Republic, what you’d have would still be the Republic, just under a different name… it’s not the Republic without the corruption that’s been causing it problems, because most of the corruption in the Republic was – was – the big industrial concerns like the Techno Union, Commerce Guild, Trade Federation. But you seem to have taken all of those off our hands, and they provide essentially your entire military so I don’t think anyone else could honestly believe that either.”

“I wouldn’t expect a Jedi to understand,” Dooku replied. “The Confederacy’s member systems have concerns relating to over-centralization.”

Obi-Wan stared at him for a long moment.

“...no they don’t,” he said.

“I hardly think you can have earned your reputation as a negotiator, Kenobi, if you are so willing to be insulting,” Dooku said, archly.

“That’s not what I mean,” Obi-Wan replied. “I mean… yes, now the Republic has an army, though really it’s actually the Jedi’s army and we’re simply letting them borrow it, but four years ago the Galactic Republic was proverbially incapable of doing anything. It took emergency powers for the Chancellor to get the Republic to authorize having any kind of military whatsoever – and the only one available was the one you ordered. That’s not over-centralization.”

He drummed his fingers on his ‘saber. “And I note that I overheard Nute Gunray insisting on the head of Senator Amidala – literally, in those words – as his price for signing a treaty. But I still haven’t heard an actual answer. What does the Galaxy look like if the Confederacy wins?”

Dooku frowned, and after about three seconds Obi-Wan glanced at the Chancellor.

“Didn’t you discuss this at any point, your excellency?” he asked. “Count Dooku doesn’t seem to have thought about this.”

Palpatine blinked.

“...he’s a Sith Lord,” he repeated. “Shouldn’t you be fighting him?”

“It’s called diplomacy, Chancellor,” Obi-Wan replied, before returning his attention to Dooku. “Grandmaster, are you seriously telling me that you never thought about what you would do if you won?”

Anakin checked his comlink, for the time, then the ship trembled slightly.

“Artoo?” he asked. “Can you tell those ships outside to stop shooting at us and give us a wide berth? This could take hours and I don’t want to find out if my name’s literal.”

“Hours?” Palpatine repeated.

“He’s rolling,” Anakin replied, rolling his eyes. “Like I say, I’m used to this.”

He rummaged in a pocket of his robes, taking out a miniature toolkit, and began disassembling his lightsaber. “I’m pretty sure I can retune these crystals to give two stable configurations which it’ll snap between, that should give me a length toggle instead of a single adjustable length…”

“Are you taking your lightsaber apart?” Palpatine hissed. “What if you need to fight?”

“It’s okay, Chancellor, I’ll get about five minutes’ warning if the negotiations are going downhill,” Anakin replied. “That should be time to put it back together again…”

Palpatine looked up to Obi-Wan, who – sure enough – was still going.

“...of course, a separate but related issue is what it’s going to be like afterwards,” Obi-Wan said. “In principle the Republic and the Jedi Order could probably accept the existence of Sith so long as we actually knew who they were and they weren’t trying to destroy us. It’s the fact that the first Sith we met in a thousand years tried to run Anakin over and cut Qui-Gon’s head off as an opening move that’s soured us towards them a bit… but are you really going to be content as someone whose whole job is to die for Sidious?”

Dooku stared at Obi-Wan, baffled, then glanced at Palpatine and Anakin.

“What do you mean?” he asked, forcing his gaze back to Obi-Wan.

“Sidious is your Master, we know that much,” Obi-Wan replied. “Partly because you told me yourself. But has he ever put himself in danger? Or has it all been you dealing with Jedi like myself and my apprentice? Putting yourself out there, in danger, while you do exactly what he says?”

He smiled slightly. “A Jedi would accept that, but you’re a Sith – you’ve said so yourself. Sith are self-interested. What do you think your new master is getting out of the situation? Because if you don’t know, it’s got to be something and it’s probably something he doesn’t want to tell you.”

“My master is quite willing to put himself in danger,” Dooku said, then clamped his lips shut at a frantic mouthed shut up from Palpatine.

“Real or feigned?” Obi-Wan asked. “Do you think he wouldn’t manipulate you? He’s been doing it to everyone else – you’ve said it.”

Dooku’s brow furrowed.

“But we’re getting off topic,” Obi-Wan said, turning to look at Palpatine. “Chancellor, what about this as a starting point? Your emergency powers were granted to resolve the crisis, and I’m sure you want to abandon them as soon as possible… so why not take away the whole reason why the individual systems in the Confederacy had problems with the Republic to begin with? Freely allow the departure of any system which wishes to do so, under the emergency powers legislation; enact a progressive tax, one which hits the Core worlds harder owing to their greater ability to pay, to sustain a carrier based navy able to hunt pirates more effectively than conduct occupations or orbital bombardment, and have the navy established on a sector-federal two-level model?”

Palpatine stared at Obi-Wan for at least ten seconds.

“...he’s a Sith Lord,” he said, yet again.

“Oh, shut up,” Dooku replied. “You’re a Sith Lord and I don’t see you doing anything constructive.”

Obi-Wan glanced at Palpatine.

“...you know,” he began. “I’m quite sure you’d need to note that on your financial disclosure forms, your Excellency.”

He turned sideways, so he could see both Dooku and Palpatine at the same time. “What was the point of this whole abduction, anyway?”

“As it happens, I was supposed to kill you,” Dooku said. “It’s the only way to turn Anakin to the Dark Side, if you’re out of the way.”

“Huh?” Anakin asked. “Is something up? I’ve almost got the crystals realigned.”

“This plan looked a lot better this morning,” Palpatine muttered.

[lotrrulz]

This concept is perfection, I would read it all day long!

A Star Wars fic where, due to a clerical error, Obi-Wan Kenobi is sent to supervise the Coruscant Guard for two weeks while he heals his broken arm, instead of being sent to some other planet to negotiate a cease-fire.

Suddenly, Commander Fox understands why Cody likes his general so much. The man is ruthlessly efficient, and bitches about natborn politicians as if he'd been in the guard this whole time.

Meanwhile Palpatine has conniptions because Obi-Wan is on his No Senate Meeting List, because he actually can understand all that's being said and then is able to translate it into simpler words, which is so not bueno for Sheev. He wants people to be more confused, not less.

[lotrrulz]

Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith | 2005 Obi-Wan Kenobi: Part VI | 2022 Star Wars: A New Hope | 1977