lovebyeler

[lovebyeler]

don't mess with us mlvn fans, we don't watch our show

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY SENDING ME

[lovebyeler]

you're so right, thinking about this, mlvn's relationship would have either never happened or broke up already if not for any outside pushes. most characters in the show see their relationship as idealized version they show to others & anyone who didn't like it at first got hurt by it... truly amazing how life imitates art

a rant on mlvn & their shippers. inspired by this post i saw on twt

one thing i noticed about mlvn fans is that whenever bylers point out a fact that is objectively true, either confirmed by the cast/producers or is said explicitly in the show, the first thing they do is call us names and deny it.

as much as i dislike mlvn, i see how someone could ship it by seeing it closer to the way they're portrayed in the show; a sort of puppy crush turned into push-pull relationship whose sides need to be truthful to themselves & understand each other better to make it work. i could see the appeal in this type of dynamic and if this was how they actually saw mlvn.

however, my main problem with mlvns is that instead of seeing them for what they are, they portay them as an example of somehow perfect couple - they'd rather twist words said in the show than admit that they're a troubled pair. they romantize the version of mlvn in their head instead of looking deeper into the show & will make fun of you if you do that.

the "and i knew right then and there [...] that i loved you" fragment of mike's monologue has been proved to be a lie multiple times from multiple sources. they would have to retcon things established in season one for this to be true. mike never was shown to like her from the start, he just happened to be the most empathetic one from the party and only started liking/crushing on her later (depending on your interpretation). besides, the show quite literally makes fun of love at first sight & the writers said they don't believe in it as well. and in the said tiktok screenshot, it's not bylers theorizing even - it's literally what finn has said.

you could still believe that mike loves eleven while lying & exeggarating things in the monologue so he could save her. that's sort of romantic as well if you want to see it in that light - he's willing to be fake to save her, however eleven is mad at him for that reason, and then lesson of mlvn in next season would be that you don't need to lie in order to save your relationship. but wait, wouldn't that be a repeat of season 3 & 4 where it was shown not to work regardless? 🤔 besides, i could still see how someone could possibly defend this.

but no, they cling to that damn monologue like it's their bible. they themselves exeggerate their love instead of just looking at them like it's a regular relationship. they downplay their lies, their problems for the sake of shipping it. at this point i'm starting to wonder if they ship it cause they actually like their dynamic or do they ship it cause they like them together visually?

that's the biggest difference between bylers and mlvns for me. bylers look deeper into their negative side of their ship, pick apart their flaws yet this doesn't dismantle their relationship but support it. why won't mlvn do the same when they have a bunch of that going on their ship as well? if we see proof by analyzing byler fights, can't they do that instead of downplaying them? unless deep analysis won't help mlvn... which is possibly the case. that's why they choose to ignore it. but that's another topic. i think i'd still appreciate them more if they actually tried, though.

anyways, that'll be the end of my long rant. it's ironic to me how much byler shippers are called delusional because they dare to analyze the show when mlvn's whole ship is build upon false romantized image of it, don't you think?

[lovebyeler]

a rant on mlvn & their shippers. inspired by this post i saw on twt

one thing i noticed about mlvn fans is that whenever bylers point out a fact that is objectively true, either confirmed by the cast/producers or is said explicitly in the show, the first thing they do is call us names and deny it.

as much as i dislike mlvn, i see how someone could ship it by seeing it closer to the way they're portrayed in the show; a sort of puppy crush turned into push-pull relationship whose sides need to be truthful to themselves & understand each other better to make it work. i could see the appeal in this type of dynamic and if this was how they actually saw mlvn.

however, my main problem with mlvns is that instead of seeing them for what they are, they portay them as an example of somehow perfect couple - they'd rather twist words said in the show than admit that they're a troubled pair. they romantize the version of mlvn in their head instead of looking deeper into the show & will make fun of you if you do that.

the "and i knew right then and there [...] that i loved you" fragment of mike's monologue has been proved to be a lie multiple times from multiple sources. they would have to retcon things established in season one for this to be true. mike never was shown to like her from the start, he just happened to be the most empathetic one from the party and only started liking/crushing on her later (depending on your interpretation). besides, the show quite literally makes fun of love at first sight & the writers said they don't believe in it as well. and in the said tiktok screenshot, it's not bylers theorizing even - it's literally what finn has said.

you could still believe that mike loves eleven while lying & exeggarating things in the monologue so he could save her. that's sort of romantic as well if you want to see it in that light - he's willing to be fake to save her, however eleven is mad at him for that reason, and then lesson of mlvn in next season would be that you don't need to lie in order to save your relationship. but wait, wouldn't that be a repeat of season 3 & 4 where it was shown not to work regardless? 🤔 besides, i could still see how someone could possibly defend this.

but no, they cling to that damn monologue like it's their bible. they themselves exeggerate their love instead of just looking at them like it's a regular relationship. they downplay their lies, their problems for the sake of shipping it. at this point i'm starting to wonder if they ship it cause they actually like their dynamic or do they ship it cause they like them together visually?

that's the biggest difference between bylers and mlvns for me. bylers look deeper into their negative side of their ship, pick apart their flaws yet this doesn't dismantle their relationship but support it. why won't mlvn do the same when they have a bunch of that going on their ship as well? if we see proof by analyzing byler fights, can't they do that instead of downplaying them? unless deep analysis won't help mlvn... which is possibly the case. that's why they choose to ignore it. but that's another topic. i think i'd still appreciate them more if they actually tried, though.

anyways, that'll be the end of my long rant. it's ironic to me how much byler shippers are called delusional because they dare to analyze the show when mlvn's whole ship is build upon false romantized image of it, don't you think?

[lovebyeler]

Let's do a quick comparison of El's and Will's first and last scenes...

First shot of season 4:

(El painting Hopper's figurine for her diorama vs Will making a romantic painting for Mike)

Last one on one scene of season 4:

What we know of season 5:

In conclusion, once again, El's personal arc is about family more than romance and her relationship with Hopper seems to be what the writers are focusing on. Will's arc is about romantic love and his feelings for Mike. This kinda spells out how the ending of the love triangle, don't you think? Why would the writers focus on those two pairings in the last season of the show if Mike and El are supposed to be this endgame power couple? Why did Mike promise to be a team and to kill Vecna with his best friend who's secretely in love with him instead of his superhero girlfriend? Where exactly is the supposed "main couple of the show"?

[lovebyeler]

🌈 is 🌈 mike 🌈 a 🌈 good 🌈 kisser 🌈 ???

[lovebyeler]

There’s just no way that the same people who created the Robin coming-out-bathroom-scene and the Will and Jonathan’s brothers’ moment in s4 would be capable of the most diabolical example of queerbait in media.

[lovebyeler]

will and mike complimenting each other with yellow and blue throughout the show

[lovebyeler]

It needs to be Mike that confesses first. It needs to be Mike that says "I love you" first. And it needs to be Mike that leans in for a kiss first.

[lovebyeler]

So... Volume 2, right?

Are we all in agreement that, if Byler happens, it will be during Volume 2?

Netflix has announced:

Volume 1 is episodes 1-4 (Nov. 26)

Volume 2 is episodes 5-7 (Dec. 25)

Volume 3 is episode 8 (Dec. 31)

I think having Byler happen in Volume 1 would be too early for many people. Most people haven't been thinking about the possibility yet. Having it in Volume 2 lets the show plant the seeds for Byler in the General Audience's minds a full month in advance. Then speculation can run rampant, and Byler analysis videos (ahem!) can be consumed.

I've already been thinking about how exactly they'll manage audience expectations! It needs time. Here's an older post of mine: "How the Duffers likely will make the general audience AWARE of Byler and CHEER for Byler"

I'm being a bit selfish, too, in that I don't want it to happen in the very last episode because we need our happy Byler coupley moments! Plus, this gives time in the story for Will to boldly be out in Hawkins High, which could be a great part of his arc and dealing with fear and evangelism in Hawkins.

(EDIT: And it would be pretty cool for gay love to be revealed on the biggest Christian day of the year, wouldn't it?)

Plus, Episode 6 is frikkin titled "Escape from Camazotz." Which is probably a reference to A Wrinkle in Time, which has a scene of someone declaring their love pulling someone else out of a possession, reads like a Byler fanfic, and is consistent with how Mike has saved Will several times from the Upside Down already.

And while we're at it, the final episode of Volume 1 is titled "Sorcerer," which is also the Miwi episode! It's the one that has the flashback of a young Mike, Will, and Jonathan. Maybe it's titled "Sorcerer" because it's about someone new having powers? Someone like Will? Volume 1 of Season 4 ended with the big reveal of who Vecna was. Volume 1 needs to be its own mid-season climax. Isn't this the perfect time for Will's buried memories to make a big revelation about Will? And to jumpstart speculation about Will's future and about Byler?

-teambyler

[lovebyeler]

On a serious note regarding the singing though, I do legitimately think that's why they wrote the scenes of El not liking Mike's singing in s3 and of Will singing in s4.

Singing and music was an established Will Thing in s1. Will and Jonathon listened to music together and Will sang Should I Stay or Should I Go Now. Mike heard Will singing on the radio and that's how he learned that Will was still alive. The Duffer Brothers picked up the love triangle storyline more heavily in s3, showed that Mike wanted to sing (a Will Thing) (we find out later that Mike also wants to play DnD and open presents in the season finale), and showed that El didn't like the singing (and that Mike felt ashamed of the presents and DnD with her, and it's no wonder after she shut down his singing so hard, telling him bluntly when he asked if she liked it: "no"). Singing is a Will Thing, not an El Thing.

But then by the end of the season, we've heard The Neverending Story being sung by 2 other couples, and suddenly happily singing together with your significant other isn't just a Will Thing, it was a Cute Teen Relationship Thing. And El and Mike didn't have that Thing.

We hadn't heard Will sing since s1, but when Mike and El are extremely rocky and Mike and Will are getting closer again in s4, Will sings again. And suddenly we remember that, hey, Will loves singing. Will singing made Mike have hope again, it was a sign that Will was still alive. Will singing was what Mike clung to for days.

Will sings, and it's still kind of a Will Thing, and he doesn't have his Cute Teen Relationship yet, but god, he's in love with Mike Wheeler. Mike Wheeler, who wanted to sing in the middle of kissing but was shushed, who wants to love his gf but doesn't, who wants to be needed but isn't sure if he is. And Will doesn't knows that Mike wanted to sing, or that Mike can't say "I love you" to his gf, or that Mike would love to hear that Will needs him, but the audience does.

And that's why we see Dustin and Suzie singing and having a great time, we see Lucas and Max singing and having a great time, but when Mike sings, El wants him to stop. Because El isn't the right person for Mike to sing with.

Will is. Because it's a Will Thing, established from s1. And it's a Cute Teen Relationship Thing, established in s3. Will singing gave Mike hope and happiness and Will still gives Mike hope and happiness. Will would sing along with Mike if Mike stopped kissing for a good song. And THAT'S why we should get a scene where Mike and Will sing together in s5. Because they will absolutely be That Cute Teen Relationship.

[lovebyeler]

Will's van speech is even more tragic when you think about it (EXPANDED)

Think about how obvious the painting was about Will's love, with a HEART on Mike's shield. Despite all the time and distance apart, Will made this very special painting to make clear to Mike that he loved him. He was fully aware that the heart was "sort of on the nose."

It was a BOLD move by Will. Whether it was in a best friend way or boyfriend way, it said HE LOVED HIM. Talk about courage coming from small-town 80s Indiana. He probably had much of his speech prepared using "I" and "me" in place of "El" and "she." (Maybe not the "I need you" part... but it was still all clear enough to communicate that, if Mike wanted something romantic, Will wanted it, too.)

After initial doubts, Mike's "I feel like I lost you" speech convinced Will to take the painting on the road and still give it a shot:

I keep seeing people say Will cried in the van because he let out his feelings. But that isn't it.

Right before Will's speech, he tells Mike he wants to spend the rest of his life playing D&D and Nintendo with him. He might have even planned to give the painting in this moment, if Mike responded positively. "Yeah? Well speaking of D&D, here's something I made for you..." But Mike seems distracted, and is preoccupied with his relationship with El. Will reads this as complete disinterest in what he just said:

This, and Mike's ramble about El, confirms again for Will that Mike is straight and will never like him back. Now look at what Will says during his speech:

Will is talking about what he's doing right this moment. HE is ripping off the Band-Aid.

Will has just thrown away his ORIGINAL plan with the painting. He knows he will NEVER give his painting the way he'd planned and declare his love for Mike. He HAD hope, but now it's gone.

Will has GIVEN UP:

Will is doing what he thinks Mike needs, putting Mike and his sister El's happiness above of his own, no matter how much it hurts him. It's what pure, selfless love makes you do.

What will Mike think, when he finds out the truth?

-teambyler

[lovebyeler]

why did mike nod when will said that maybe el wouldnt like truth and he was scared of telling her. WHY DID HE NOD

[lovebyeler]

obsessed with how mike is an absolute menace 80% of the time but immediately pulls out the puppy dog eyes when around will

[lovebyeler]

“it’s not queerbaiting if byler doesn’t happen” uh actually, it is at this point.

before season 4:

there was so much teasing and giggling from the cast about byler during season 4 promotions - they knew exactly what they were doing and the reaction they would get from fans, because people have always had theories about will being queer (and potentially being in love with mike).

these theories actually started when the show started, but got way more popular after season 2 (where byler had a lot of scenes together all season) and season 3 ("it's not my fault you don't like girls").

after season 4 volume 1 aired:

we actually got direct confirmation from the cast (like in actual proper words) that will does in fact 100% love mike. he’s been in love with him since the start. no more arguing or theorising, it's FULLY confirmed now.

the cast CONTINUED teasing (giving people hope that something would happen in volume 2, especially with how much focus there was on will's painting) and obviously the byler fandom became so much bigger.

after season 4 volume 2 aired:

as most of us remember, volume 2 was a mess and we were all so angry and disappointed hearing mike’s monologue to el and watching will once again be heartbroken and alone.

they literally USED HIM as a plot device to push mike into telling his girlfriend he loved her, because he didn’t have strength to do it without will confessing his own feelings for him and giving him the painting he worked so hard on.

they took 2 extremely important things to WILL that were about his love for mike, and they made it about a straight ship who don't even feel like equals in their own relationship. absolutely horrible. it’s so disrespectful, hurtful and insulting in ways i can’t even explain - doing all this to a traumatised, abused, gay character who has barely had any happiness the entire show is just disgusting, and the cast and writers would’ve 100% seen the backlash and how upset people were because it was everywhere all over the internet.

the ONLY way they can fix what they did in season 4 with how they used will as a plot device, is by making byler endgame. that is literally the only way to solve the messy writing and make up for all the lies and misunderstandings, otherwise it's just one big joke.

mike's monologue to el only happened thanks to will's monologue to mike.

mike wants to be loved the way that will loves him. mike wants to be needed the way that will needs him. this is canon and in the script. will's monologue can only be applied to himself, but mike doesn't know that because he lied and pretended he was talking about el. that's the only reason he ended up being able to say he loved el. it's all one big misunderstanding and it absolutely CANNOT stay this way.

now, years later after season 4 aired:

people are STILL talking about byler, and the cast and writers KNOW IT.

the writers themselves (not just the actors sharing their own opinions at conventions, but i mean THE ACTUAL WRITERS) could EASILY directly say “byler is definitely not happening and we’re serious. we made this clear in the season 4 finale when mike confessed his love to el, so please don't say we didn't warn you”, but they did not.

even if they did, this still wouldn’t change the fact that the monologue only happened BECAUSE OF WILL, but whatever. they’ve mentioned the monologue while talking about the scene, but they have not directly denied byler in words.

why? why is it so hard to just deny byler?

at this current moment, EVERYONE, including the characters in the show (even will himself) are meant to think it’s confirmed mike loves el because of the big "i love you" moment, so telling viewers that byler definitely isn’t happening WOULD NOT be a spoiler. they could easily say it, make it 100% clear so that no one has hope for it anymore and moves on, but they’re not.

the only reason they're not denying byler is if:

1. something IS actually gonna happen with byler and they're going to resolve all these lies and misunderstandings (mike will find out about will's painting and monologue and realise it was never about el), so they have to keep quiet about everything to do with ships/love triangles.

OR

2. they’re leading people on. they're making them have hope so they keep talking about the show and hyping it up, attracting more potential fans and then keeping them all as viewers for the final season, just to disappoint everyone by keeping the straight ship together and not letting the gay kid be with his first true love + best friend that he's known longer than anyone. this would also mean that so much of the writing choices would be absolutely horrendous and make no sense from a story perspective.

THAT is queerbaiting and bad writing.

there was absolutely no point in making will in love with mike if he wasn't going to end up with him.

and no, the issue is NOT mike simply being with el. if they wanted to always keep them together, they could've written their story beautifully in a proper way, WITHOUT involving will. they could've made their relationship healthy, made them feel like equals and made them actually be able to have proper heart-to-heart conversations (aka what mike has with will...), but they didn't. they also could've given will a different love interest a long time ago, BUT THEY DIDN'T. they deliberately made all of these choices, so you CANNOT sit there and blame byler shippers for feeling the way they do when the writers and cast have literally pushed and encouraged it and given us hope even more. it's not delusion, IT IS IN THE LITERAL SHOW. mike wheeler would not have gained strength and happiness if it weren't for will byers in that van scene - absolutely NOTHING you say can change this. you cannot argue. it's canon and it's there.

and even if will did develop another crush in season 5, it would not even be CLOSE to the way he’s in love with mike. that love has been developing for years, and they’ve known each other for so long and experienced so much together. they were literally each other's FIRST FRIEND! you can't get anymore powerful and romantic than that. all the upside down stuff is also a huge part of will and mike knows everything, and even helped him and saved him at certain points. a different love interest in the final season wouldn’t have those shared experiences with him AND it would feel so rushed and like such a massive slap in the face to make him fall for someone new that we don't even care about.

[lovebyeler]

don’t make me say it

[lovebyeler]

Eyewitness (2016) / Stranger Things (2016-2025)

[lovebyeler]

reliable leaker said there's one fake-out death in s5 vol 1... there's a chance for this to actually happen

I've said this so many times already but I NEED a scene where Will seemingly dies in front of Mike's eyes who lets out the most agonizing scream and crawls over to Will's body, shaking him, desperately trying to wake him up, sobbing, blaming himself... and when Will wakes up eventually I need the most gut wrenching hug of relief between them both. GIVE ME THE ANGST, THE PAIN, THE TEARS! No for real I need Mike to CRY for Will.