luminary-syscourse

[luminary-syscourse]

Ough wait a second....you're..."photogenic"? You need trauma to be a system, dumbass.

[luminary-syscourse]

ENDOS 👏 AREN'T 👏 REAL!

You're only a REAL arthropod if you have an EXOSKELETON and you have to PERIODICALLY MOLT to grow LARGER, and you have a SEGMENTED BODY with PAIRED JOINTED APPENDAGES.

If you have an endoskeleton, YOU ARE NOT AN ARTHROPOD.

STOP INVADING ARTHROPOD SPACES, YOU PRIVILEGED FUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

[luminary-syscourse]

>anti-endo links a source that they say disproves endogenic plurality

>ask them if their source is all-plurality or DID-only

>they don't understand

>pull out illustrated diagram explaining what is all-plurality and what is DID-only

>they laugh and say "it's a good source"

>read source

>it's DID-only

[luminary-syscourse]

Just a little reminder that being a soulbonder and somehow anti-endogenic at the same time is ridiculous. This is something we've encountered a few times now and it makes literally no sense.

If you join a soulbonding community and get mad that there's endogenic plurals there, maybe read what's on the tin before you open it. Not all soulbonders consider themselves plural (valid and real experience), and some might feel closer to the traumagenic label (also valid and real experience), sure, but... That's like reading a sign that says "dog park" and getting mad that there's dogs in there.

That's our space. If you're a soulbonder, you're experiencing something that many do describe as endogenic plurality. For a lot of em, it's even voluntary endogenic plurality. A type of being more than one entity in a body that doesn't originate from trauma. You don't have to describe it that way for yourself! But at least understand that you are a sibling to the endogenic plural community. You can't go around saying you can't be a system or more-than-one without trauma and that CDDs are the only way to be plural... and then be more-than-one without trauma yourself. Your community is included in the group you're claiming doesn't exist.

[luminary-syscourse]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IqeFeqInoXc&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=25&pp=iAQB

I have to send you this Sophie. I know that the video is just analyzing a general conservative debate tactic. But as soon as I saw it it reminded me of how sysmeds use sources in their arguments. No, the source doesn’t actually say what you’re saying it does. And even if it did, the argument you’re making with said source isn’t relevant to the argument. But it doesn’t matter. It’s using the source as a shield. Not as substance.

(Maybe you’ve already seen this. But in case you haven’t. Also check out the other videos in this series. If you want, not forcing you.)

First time I've seen this, but you're right! It definitely applies!

It's pretty easy to look at this video, and compare to any example of sysmeds using "sources."

In particular, sources they cite to prove all plurality is caused by trauma tend to be only focused on DID and not even mention other kinds of pathological plurality (OSDD/Partial DID), and at that usually only claims DID is "associated" with trauma. And more often than not, these aren't even actual peer reviewed papers, but random articles they found on Google.

For example, this post:

Let's go over these "sources."

The first source, Psychiatry.org, isn't peer reviewed but is at least ran by the American Psychiatric Association. So this is the most credible source in the bunch. Unfortunately, it doesn't say what is claimed! It says the vast majority of people with DID experienced trauma, but that wording implies there is a nonzero number of people have DID without trauma. So it actually contradicts claims of DID being exclusively trauma-based.

The second source, Beauty After Bruises, is a nonprofit and its articles are blog posts by people who, as far as I can tell, have no education in psychology or psychiatry. It's a bad source.

The third source is Reddit.

And this one actually makes me angry because the fact that they didn't include the website in this screenshot, but included the others, means they KNEW it was a bad source and posted it anyway! They just didn't want anyone else to see it!

The fourth source, Rethink, is again not peer-reviewed, and has no named authors whose credentials can be pointed to. It doesn't cite the doctors who believe this either. It just says "some researchers" think this and that there's disagreement.

The fifth "source" is an AI overview!!!!!

Finally, all of these sources have the same flaw in that NONE of them address plurality outside of DID. Which is what most endogenic systems experience. They are very specifically focused on DID. None of them discuss non-pathological plurality AT ALL. And the only one that even mentioned OSDD was the random reddit post!

But to the sysmed, it doesn't matter. Because they cited "sources".

And being able to post links and screenshots seems to be more important than understanding those sources and thinking critically about whether or not they actually back up their arguments.

It is, as the video suggests, more about the ritual of being able to point to something to validate their beliefs, regardless of whether it's credible or not, or if it actually claims what they say it does. The sources are a shield for their bigotry.

And it is the same exact behavior you will see from the alt-right, neo-nazis and other bigots. Because in the end, bigotry thrives on ignorance and misinformation. And the worst enemy of bigotry is critical thinking.

[luminary-syscourse]

How to trigger Republicans, sysmeds and other bigots in 1 easy steps

Step 1: Post facts with sources

That's literally it.

If you threaten them or call them names, they will feel vindicated in their persecution complexes. But if you prove them wrong with facts, they will block you instantly because being proven wrong bruises their ego and they can't cope with it.

If you're angry at bigots and want to hurt them, I promise that nothing will inflict more emotional damage than calmly explaining why they're wrong with sources to back it up.

[luminary-syscourse]

just because your littles can't consent to anything, doesn't mean it's that way for every system, and it's both weird and rude as hell to push that on systems who are bodily an adult.

systems aren't abusing their littles by acknowledging that alter has the capacity to consent, for them. it's weird as hell to accuse people of being predators because of this as well.

you hate it when people try and insist that your little can do things they can't? then don't be a hypocrite and tell other adult systems that their littles can't do things they can. you're still making people miserable and having littles hate themselves for being a little that isn't like yours, even when and especially when you do this to people for the sake of your own comfort.

[luminary-syscourse]

a lot of this doubles discourse just reminds us that a lot of people don't actually give a damn about the experiences and perspectives of people who are psychotic.

it's all "recover at your own pace" until someone doesn't want what they see as doubles to interact with them because it triggers their psychosis in an unreality way.

it's all "source seperate at your own pace" until someone is delusional about it, then they have to do it immediately or else they get the label of anti recovery.

just because you think the things that trigger people are dumb or stupid and silly, doesn't make it any less of a trigger for people.

or, don't pretend you're a safe space for the psychotic systems of this community. if you're not a safe space, just say that.

and, be mindful that we all have limited perspectives because none of us are omniscient. just because you don't understand why someone would be triggered or uncomfortable by something, doesn't mean that the person doesn't have a reason. just because you can't think of a reason, based on your knowledge and experience, doesn't mean that there's not a reason out there.

[luminary-syscourse]

btw 'syscourse' and plural infighting isn't accomplishing anything. back in the late 90s and early 2000s, the only communities and resources for plurals that were widely available were for and by non-traumagenic systems. the only people who were advocating for normalizing and accepting plurality on a large scale were non-traumagenic systems. if you did research into plurality 10 - 15 years ago, most of the results that came up would have been experiences written by spiritual and natural plurals.

many people at the time were expressing their dislike of forcing every single plural to identify as if they had trauma- many found this insulting to themselves, and rightfully so! no one should be forced to identify in a way they don't agree with just to rightfully be a part of a community they already occupy. this obsession with "you can only be plural if you have trauma" has only come about extremely recently. i found out about plurality through the otherkin community. i was actually told about DID by someone in the spiritual plurality community. people don't seem to understand that most non-traumagenic systems have respect for traumagenic systems and don't gatekeep their spaces to prevent us from entering.

older plural spaces on the web like healthymultiplicity accepted all plurals. the goal of the community was to show that you can live as plural and not have it be a tragedy or something to "fix". if anything, folks with dissociative disorders owe a LOT to non-traumagenic systems for pushing to normalize plurality without implying that we HAVE to integrate our headmates and try to stop being plural. a huge part of the early online plural community was there to push that plurals can and do live happy lives and shouldn't view their plurality as a bad thing

it's not going to make singlet society see us in a better light. it's not going to get people to understand plurality better. it's not going to get us better mental health resources. it's not going to improve the quality of care for dissociative and traumagenic systems. all you're doing is bullying someone else that you don't understand simply because you don't agree with them.

you're not going to recover from your trauma or understand your own plurality better by denying the existence of other types of plurality. you're not "making the community safer" by gatekeeping. telling other people how their brains work is policing their identities. whether or not you want to accept it, if you forcefully kick endos out of plural spaces, you are the cop you claim to hate.

fighting with people on your own team will never net you a victory. to every other dissociative and traumagenic system: endos are on your side. you are wearing the same jersey. you are made of the same flesh and blood. enough. come together to share your similarities instead of fighting over differences. celebrate the diversity that plurality offers. don't take someone else's identity personally. someone can share the space with you without having to match exactly how you identify. diversity is what makes a community thrive.

[luminary-syscourse]

"B-but endogenic systems are attacking us!1!🥺"

And then proceeds to:

Add the "endos f#$k off" tag in every one of their posts

Make a WHOLE GODDAMN BLOG just to hate on us

Make the most relatable posts about systems and then writing "endos dni"

Send us d3ath treats

Call us names

And many other things.

No one is attacking you. No one is abusing you. No one is "destroying our community". It's because we are a part of the plural community. And no one can change that, no matter how much you hate us.

- Alex

[luminary-syscourse]

Alright, Let's Go Debunk A Sysmed in Denial!

There are three types? Ooh! Is this going to be about my Headmate Foundations model?

Oh... Nope. I guess that would have required braincells.

I'm just going to assume that "factive disorder" is a Medically Unrecognized Disorder that involves forming a lot of introjects of real people. 🤷‍♀️

Wait! No! Please tell me all about this disorder I've never heard of!

Open the can of worms! 🙏

I believe they meant "factitious disorder" but it's not a typo when it happens twice. It's having no idea what you're talking about.

Like????

There are no examples given here.

Is your research in the room with us?

Anyway, this is false.

The most popular endogenic community is the tulpamancy community, and it's been the subject of extensive research.

For anyone who doesn't know, tulpamancy is a primarily psychological practice that involves creating headmates. It has been acknowledged as a real psychological phenomenon by multiple doctors, including Dr. Samuel Veissiere, a psychiatry professor at McGill University, who wrote the following paper on tulpamancy.

There is also an ongoing study conducted by Dr. Michael Lifshitz that has shown neurological changes during partial possession in tulpamancy.

The existence of tulpamancy, a practice of creating headmates, has been acknowledged by multiple doctors.

Absolutely no doctors have ever claimed that it's fake.

Way to undercut your whole argument with that last line!

Anyway, in one study of tulpamancers, 78% reported positive impacts on their mental health, and 91% reported positive impacts on their overall lives.

So tulpamancy is obviously beneficial according to these statistics.

And when the OP is even admitting they'd be worse off as a singlet (and a majority of people with DID have expressed that they'd miss their alters if they were gone), I just don't think this argument has any merit at all.

Wanting to be a system is perfectly valid.

What the Hell do you consider "actual" endogenic systems???

You mean like, people who were born as systems?

So... not that either???

What then???

That's... trauma...

I mean, bullying isn't necessarily going to be traumatic for everyone but you're describing bullying that's severe enough to cause PTSD symptoms.

If the only endogenic systems you support are the ones whose systems were caused by trauma, then you aren't pro-endo.

Are you SURE your aren't a troll blog??????

Because somehow, calling yourself "pro-endo" while the only "endogenic" systems you believe in are ones you don't think their trauma is valid enough to count as real trauma is the worst possible position in all of syscourse!

Ugh! Do you even know enough of plural history to realize that the endogenic community branched out of the natural multiples? People who believed their multiplicity was entirely natural???

If this isn't a troll blog, I feel kind of bad for you. Because at least most other anti-endos are smart enough to realize they're anti-endos.

[luminary-syscourse]

Please stop treating structural dissociation like it’s real and wasn’t made up by a few psychologists trying to sell a book in 2006 describing their psychiatric approach as resembling a guy’s psychiatric practices who literally wrote papers on female hysteria.

[luminary-syscourse]

WE MADE ONTO SYSTEMS CRINGE LET’S GOOOOOOOO!

Honestly I’m just laughing.

[luminary-syscourse]

This is what origin discourse looks like btw

[luminary-syscourse]

anti endos calling themselves system punk makes me laugh

breaking news: least punk guy you know wants to appropriate punk culture

[luminary-syscourse]

Yes, punk is about going against the grain- sometimes As in, discrimination against minorities is not punk As in, ableism is not punk Therefore anti endos aren't punk Hope this helps! ❤️

[luminary-syscourse]

can anti endos stop fucking posting in the pluralgang tag. your bigotry will never be welcome here. you only come off as a piece of shit desperate for validation every time you invade our tags. thanks