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luvsaga · 3 years

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About Uchiha Sasuke and homosexuality in NARUTO and Weekly Shounen JUMP (+ my opinion on ending pairings)

Ok, so lately, I see a lot of discussions about Sasuke and the way he was treated in the ending. So I decided to add my own two cents, because I’m kinda tired of the misinfomation I see here and there. Beware this is a looong post, but I hope you will find it interesting (I recommend you take breaks during your reading xD).

First off, let me say one thing : I am a NaruSaku/SasuKarin shipper, and while I really like SasuNaruSasu as a romantic ship as well, I prefer to see them as brothers (because for the aromantic-asexual person that I am, that’s the purest kind of love between two people who aren’t related by blood). The relationship between Sasuke and Naruto is my favourite one in the manga. I even bought a T-shirt at JUMP Store in Osaka of them ^^ :

BUT, despite my shipping preferences, I am objective. And there’s one fact about Uchiha Sasuke that’s official : he is an asexual character. This has been stated by Kishimoto in an interview years ago. Which means that officially : Sasuke isn’t attracted to Naruto, he isn’t attracted to Karin and he certainly isn’t attracted to Sakura, even though the fans argue about the contrary. However, I believe it’s a little too simple : what is the truth ? Let’s analyze things a little.

• First, lemme talk a bit about Sasuke’s sexuality in NARUTO :

SNS is the most popular ship both in and outside Japan. And we all know what started the popularity of the ship :

Two main characters from a shounen manga kissing from the very beginning of the story ? No way people were gonna overlook that. Even though this was meant as a joke/mistake, it’s still pleasant to see and very original for this genre. But even without the kiss, people were gonna ship SNS anyway, as it is always the case in all shounen mangas, because the ship “hero x rival” will always exist (Goku x Vegeta in DBZ, Kageyama x Hinata in Haikyuu!!, Haru x Rin in Free!, etc.). So even if NARUTO had no hints of homosexuality between Naruto and Sasuke, people would have shipped it anyway. What supported the ship even more, it was the fact that Kishimoto also said he kinda liked it in his early interviews. With even the author approving the pairing, SNS fans had legit reasons to ship it.

And Kishimoto never really stopped including homoerotic images in his manga concerning Sasuke. All of the following pics are from tome 38 (that I call the “welcome-to-land-of-yaoi-subtlety” volume).

In a matter of only a few pages, Sasuke is seen with “three different partners”. Which brings me to the question..? Is Sasuke really asexual..? Or is there more to it ?

Now, lemme add some other pictures to add to my point :

These clearly have an erotic connotation as well. I mean, if Kishimoto didn’t want those SasuKarin moments to be perceived as erotic, then it was perfectly possible to make Karin a normal medic like Sakura, that heals using her hands. Why the bites ?

Let’s also not forget that part 1 also has a few little SasuSaku hints (before Sasuke became an assh*le to her). Unfortunately, their relationship deteriorated greatly afterwards (but I had always hoped they’d become friends again which is why I had high hopes after chapter 685).

→ Could all those things together hint at Sasuke’s possible bisexuality ? Maybe. We’ll never really know, since SasuSaku is officially canon (I’ll come back to this part later).

BUT, I would like to remind you something about Sasuke’s relationships with Karin and Sakura : in both cases, Sasuke tried to ditch them : - Sakura, when he left Konoha and all the times he wanted to kill her - Karin, by actually TRYING to kill her. If I had to use an IRL metaphor for that, I’d say that’s the equivalent of the scumbag guy that sleeps with the girls to disappear the day after xD.

He also tried to ditch Naruto too, mind you ! A lot of times actually : - In part 1, when he left Konoha + when they fought in the Valley of the End. - In part 2, when Team 7 found Sasuke after Gaara’s rescue arc + after the Kage Summit arc + after the War, during their last battle. He FAILED. Naruto never stopped chasing after him, no matter how much Sasuke tried to make him understand he didn’t want to be saved. Sasuke finally accepted Naruto’s love.

In the end, Naruto’s love won. But Karin was also somewhat important to Sasuke, which is why he apologized to her when she came back to him. Sasuke only apologized to Sakura at the very end, after his fight against Naruto. The two Uzumakis (Naruto and Karin) were rewarded for their persistence, not Sakura who only ripped the fruits of Naruto’s efforts.

SasuSaku/NaruHina fans might want to argue : “but Sasuke married Sakura and they have a happy family now ! same with Naruto and Hinata”. Hehehe :D… my poor, unenlightened little friends. I see you haven’t watched Brokeback Mountain. Two gay men in love with each other. Still get married and have kids with their respective woman. But they keep dating in secret. The director of the movie is Asian. Nothing will ever prove us that Kishimoto hasn’t been/won’t be inspired by this movie ;). Because yes, like it or not, Kishimoto loved the idea of SNS, and he proved it many times.

The manga could have done without these two pics. They were NOT necessary to the plot. What need did Sasuke have to be so close to Naruto and put his arm around his shoulders like this ? What need did Kishimoto have to create this chapter cover with Naruto and Sasuke both having a necklace with each other’s pic in it. The answer is simple : none. Then why are they there ? Because Kishimoto wanted it. Maybe to support his own ship, who knows ^^ ?

But then it calls for the following question : if Kishimoto was so adamant to make the reader aware of SNS, then WHY isn’t it canon ? That’s what I’m going to analyze next.

• The representation of homosexuality in Weekly Shounen JUMP :

- Oh, before you start saying that I don’t have any knowledge on the matter ‘cause I’m not Japanese… just no. I do have proper knowledge. I have studied Japanese language (and I suck T__T) and Japanese History at university. And I also have Japanese friends who are gay, if that matters -

Let’s start with an opening statement for this part : Japan/WSJ doesn’t accept homosexuality like Westerners do (well, not all Western countries do, but that’s for another debate ^^).

But is that true ? Are Japanese people that close-minded about homosexuality..? Mweeeell, in a sense, yeah. But… no… It depends. Lemme explain myself : in Japan, nowadays, homosexuality is “taboo” : a lot of the Japanese gays don’t openly talk about it. But it wasn’t the case in the past. Japan doesn’t have an anti-gay history like ours. I’m not going to repeat what I learned in class, but if you’re interested in this topic, go read Wikipedia. Before the arrival of Christianity in Japan, and before Japan got “westernized” (during the Meiji era and afterwards, after WW2), being gay wasn’t exactly labelled as “bad”. It’s those events who changed the opinion of homosexuality in the mind of Japanese people and made it taboo (though some young people are really open-minded about it, like my own Japanese friends).

→So, what can be said about Weekly Shounen JUMP and their position on the matter ? There’s no denying it, WSJ is clearly “christian-conservative” on that issue. No gay couples for canon. You can play with it, hint at it, but not make it real. Of course, given what I showed you above, it is clear that Kishimoto did find a way to insert homoerotic elements in his story (as did many other JUMP mangakas). But he didn’t make it happen. Some argue that it’s because of the pressure from WSJ. This might be true. He did say that he had to negociate with his editor to be allowed to show Naruto’s new Sexy Jutsu : the one used against Kaguya in chapter 682 (that I don’t really consider as “gay”, they simply look like naked hosts).

So I honestly think it was impossible for Sasuke and Naruto to be in a romantic canon couple at the end, Kishimoto wasn’t strong enough to do that. And here’s why : Kishimoto has become one hell of a greedy bastard, he wanted to make his part 3 possible, with all the kids from the “Rookie 9 babyboom”, and keep his income as well as the popularity of his series high. Naruto and Sasuke wouldn’t have been able to give him a main offspring kid for his new series. He wants to make part 3 the “Dragon Ball GT” of his manga. Though he should know that DBGT was very unpopular among the big fans of DB/DBZ. And if you ask me, that’s what awaits this “new era project”.

But I digress.

Back to homosexuality. While it was unfortunately impossible to make SNS canon, was it impossible to make Sasuke gay/bi while being approved by WSJ. No, it was not impossible.

Allow me illustrate what I’m saying using one of my favourite anime/manga : Gintama. Oh boy, so many things can be said about this awesome series, and if the western manga fans weren’t so stuck up on refusing to give it a try, it would be as successful here as it is in Japan. Wait, on second thought, I’m glad it’s not *that* popular in the West. Western fandoms ruin mangas. *HUM* anyway ! Why is it interesting to analyze Gintama in the case of homosexuality ? Because the author, Sorachi-sensei, is awesome :D. Not only does he include homoerotic moments between the main character, Gintoki and his “rival” Hijikata (or more accurately : “his-total-opposite-with-whom-he-doesn’t-get-along-but-is-friends-with-anyway”), but he also includes trans characters like Saigou Tokumori (“Mademoiselle Saigou” or “Mama”) who protects his fellow travestites AND the case that interests us today : Yagyuu Kyuubei (beware, spoilers ahead ! if you plan on getting into Gintama, don’t read !).

○ Kyuubei is a girl who was raised as a boy, due to the fact her father and grand-father needed a male heir for their clan (kinda like Lady Oscar). Thus, for the biggest part of her life, she has considered herself to be a guy. She has a childhood friend, Shimura Tae, that she is in love with. In the first arc in which she appears, she comes back from training to marry Tae (despite the fact that Tae only sees Kyuubei as her best friend). Kyuubei kisses Tae (for real, not as a “gag” like we can see in NARUTO, between Naruto and Sasuke) and takes her to her mansion so Tae can become her bride. Since Tae is sad and doesn’t really want to go, the main characters of the manga (along with some other character) go to Kyuubei’s mansion to rescue Tae. After some fights, some Talk-no-Jutsu and some tears, Kyuubei realizes it was wrong to try to keep Tae for herself and they decide to be friends like before. But Kyuubei still loves Tae, she simply accepts that her feelings cannot be returned. ○ Another awesome arc with Kyuubei is the “Genderbent Arc”, in which most of the male characters become female and vice-versa. Kyuubei becomes a guy (“Jyuubei”), which is something she really wanted in order to be able to date Tae, and they actually do in this arc (since Tae is still a woman). This arc allows Kyuubei to question her own gender. In the end, she decides she doesn’t need to try to label herself as a man or a woman, she can simple be herself, Yagyuu Kyuubei. And she still loves Tae. Yagyuu Kyuubei is lesbian character in a shounen manga.

All of this to say what ? Yes, portraying queer characters is POSSIBLE in WSJ. Sorachi-sensei proved it. And his manga is one of the most popular in Japan (and his female characters are badassly STRONG, both in and outside). Gintama is way more popular than NARUTO lately. If you want a proof, please check this : it’s in French, but it’s the result of a survey asking Japanese WSJ what is their favourite manga. After Dragon Ball and One Piece comes Gintama. Naruto is only in 9th position. And yes, this website is reliable, they’re the French publishers of NARUTO, Gintama, etc.

• (Long) CONCLUSION : what does all of this tell us ?

Yes at some point, Kishimoto wanted to make SNS canon. He gave some excuses about his editors, blah, blah, blah. But in the end, he couldn’t/didn’t. Which is why he made/kept Sasuke asexual in my opinion. If he cannot make SNS or SK (due to Karin’s lack of popularity) canon, then it was obvious that the only way to “save him” from ending with Sakura was to make him asexual. But SasuSaku happened in the end (for the sake of part 3 and SasuSaku’s popularity). It’s happened. They had Salad **forever facepalm at this name**. But is SasuSaku currently happening ? I mean, are they together, as a couple ATM ? That’s right, the answer is no. Sasuke is off somewhere, wandering in the wild. While Sakura is at home. in the picture Kishimoto drew of SasuSaku’s family at Jump Festa, Sasuke isn’t smiling and his body isn’t even turned towards Sakura. Kishimoto admitted it himself, he has no idea on how to make SasuSaku canon (just like he said he had no idea how to defeat Madara, and ended up creating Kaguya, who’s very unpopular, showing how good Kishimoto is at last-minute ideas). The same way he also admitted to have no devotion to NaruHina, he has no devotion to SasuSaku as well. The way NaruHina happened (in this laughable piece of shit that is THE LAST) is the way SasuSaku is gonna happen : poorly executed, but the fans + Nakamura-san (Sakura’s VA) asked for it anyway, and they are right to some extent : fans deserve to know how it happened, since it sounded impossible after chapter 693.

So cheer up SNS fans ! Your ship was real. It was meant to happen (even if not bluntly romantical, Sasuke and Naruto could have gone on a journey together or became Hokage together as a way to revolutionize the old system). Blame Kishimoto for being a pussy and not having the balls to try it. Blame him and his “new era project”. Not everyone is as daring as Sorachi-sensei. - - - - -

My own opinion on the matter if you’re interested in it is that NaruSaku and SasuKarin were supposed to happen, and with these hetero pairings, Naruto and Sasuke would have been closer than ever. Naruto would have been with Sasuke and his newfound “cousin” Karin, Sakura would have became Sasuke’s friend and equal and the friend of Karin, the woman she saved (and they would have got along due to their deep feelings for Sasuke and respect for Naruto). Karin and Sakura would have had nice scientific discussions because of their jobs, and Karin would have cleared her debt to Sakura due to the fact Karin healed her master. And Naruto and Sasuke would have spent their days together. But that didn’t work, 'cause Sakura was too unpopular to end up with the main protagonist, and Karin being even more unpopular (seen in the West as an extreme mix of Ino, Sakura and Hinata by the idiots of our fandom) couldn’t end up with the second protagonist.

My whole post was to prove that Sasuke wasn’t heterosexual (and officially, not homosexual as well), so why do I think SasuKarin and SasuNaruSasu are OK, and not SasuSaku ? Because, as I said above, Sasuke “lost to his feelings for Naruto”, he accepted them. And Karin..? Well, if Sasuke really needed a heir for his clan, she could have been the one (plus, Uchiha blood + Uzumaki blood would have resulted in a very strong kid with the Rinnegan… maybe). But more importantly, Sasuke has never officially rejected her romantic feelings for him. However, Sasuke rejected Sakura twice : once, when he left the village and again in chapter 693, when he said :

No matter what chapter 700 shows, this one panel cannot be erased (which is why I will forever be convinced that Kishimoto decided to make SasuSaku happen, like, one week before he had to hand over the last chapters xD). Also, one last pro-SasuKarin argument which is true, but kinda gets on my nerves as a feminist : Karin was created to love Sasuke, and unlike Sakura, she has a GOOD reason to (Sasuke saved her life and smiled at her). Sakura’s reasons are shallow and almost destroyed her friendship with Ino. And even if her feelings did grow stronger with time, it doesn’t change the fact that they started for a bad reason. Hinata (and this is coming from an anti-Hinata person but she had great potential) wasn’t created to love Naruto only : she should have been the one to unify her clan, surpass her little sister and gain her father’s respect, thanks to being inspired by Naruto. But nope, she simply became an annoying love fodder. And she is the element that erased Naruto’s relationship with both Sasuke and Sakura (well, gotta be fair here : Kishimoto and SP made her the tool that severed Naruto’s bonds with Sakura and Sasuke, she didn’t do it herself). Unlike Karin, Hinata isn’t linked to Sasuke and Sakura, thus, she cannot be used to reinforce Team 7 bonds.

Here, that’s it. I’m hoping I’m not gonna receive hate for that (but I who am I kidding, this is the NARUTO fandom ==’). Thanks for reading, I hope you found it interesting and not too hard to understand depite my bitching here and there about canon x). Don’t forget, keep shipping what you ship, no matter what ! The SNS/SK/NS fandom is strong enough to ignore 699/THE LAST/700 ! (Sorry for any typo >人< !)

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luvsaga · 5 years

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I received an anon question on curious cat asking me about what I think will happen to Nyongtory in the future. Since this was too long to post there, I’m putting it here. Firstly, thank you for the opportunity to answer this question. I’ll start with a disclaimer that this is my opinion and not something that should be used as the basis for fact.

Let’s first look at the past and present of Nyongtory. Ji was ready to come out in 2017, he wanted to share that truth about himself during Motte, but for reasons related to Ri as well as other outside pressures, he couldn’t. That was a rough time for Ji and Ri, and we know what kind of toll it took on them. The Nyongtory bond was rocky and this was one of the areas of conflict between them. Ri wasn’t ready. He was starting to grow his businesses and military enlistment was on the horizon. Sokor culture is anti lgbt particularly with the older generation and Ri is private despite his outgoing facade. It just wasn’t the right time.

Fortunately they made up and came to a compromise by the time Ri appeared for Ji’s concert in Tokyo. After that, Ji was more at ease and Ri started to open. When Ji enlisted and Ri began promotions for TGS, it was Ji this and GD that for months. Ri loose with his words to the point of declaring that Ji was number 1 in his heart at his concert in front of Ji’s own mother! Two songs from TGS highlight Ri’s change - one is Scream and the other Alone. Look up the lyrics.

Then the BS witch-hunt started. Going from the high of TGS to the low of BS—I can’t begin to imagine the stress this put on them. It’s not the good times but the bad times that are the real test of the bond between two people. We don’t get much but there are some clued that show Ji has been nothing but supportive of his beloved panda. When they first began to drag Ri through the mud, Ji broke his social media ban to post quotes from Nietzsche about how to live and putting the individual over the country’s ideals. I believe they speak to Ri, encouraging him to fight for himself but also to Sokor saying your antiquated ideals are not what’s important. Exactly a month later, Ri retired to fight against the charges, prove his innocence and protect his members and YGE. Another clue is that Ji’s own bodyguard has accompanied Ri to his investigations—why would he do so unless it was a personal favor to Ji? Even though their bond is being tested, I believe they are not only surviving but are stronger than ever.

Looking to the future, there are a lot of factors that could affect their careers but none that will affect their bond. Once Ri has successfully concluded this case, he will enlist. Ji will discharge and already has fanmeets scheduled in China. His first ever. Why fanmeets and so soon? Because Ji will have a lot to say and most of it will be about Ri. Will he come out? I don’t think he will just yet with Ri in the military where they have anti gay laws, but he’s also not going to censor himself. They’ve already experienced the worst, nothing he says will affect them more than that. This will allow him more freedom to be himself.

And when Ri discharges? 2 years is a long time in kpop. I think he will be back with Bigbang as 5 and they will be bigger than ever.

What does this mean for Nyongtory?

Attitudes in Asia are changing. Taiwan just legalized gay marriage. Gay pride is growing in Sokor. More Koreans are coming out online, to their friends and to their families. Will Sokor be ready to accept a gay idol? Could they accept an openly gay celebrity couple who are married to each other in every definition of the word except under Sokor law? Who knows, but at this point, Ji and Ri are beyond the idol label. They are more than just Sokor celebrities. They will have the freedom to do and say what they want because what people think doesn’t matter. Era moreugetda.

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