majorannah

[majorannah]

“She needs this, Aang. This is about getting closure and justice.”, only for Aang to respond with, “I don’t think so. I think it’s about getting revenge.”

Just gonna ignore how Katara literally was like yeah maybe it is about revenge so what.

Aang knows what type of person Katara is, Zuko doesn't. Which is why Aang is rightfully calling her out. That's what friends do call you out on your bullshit. Later in the epsiode Aang is like you do you, just don't do something you'll regret, cause again Aang knows what type of person she is.

Zuko doesn't know Katara, he's thinking if I found out who killed my mother, I'd want revenge which he reframes as justice which just goes back to how the fire nation view things and how he was raised.

(No to mention he only does it to get her forgiveness which is ironic, he didn't give a shit about her closure or revenge, but about making her stop being mad at him. If she had killed him, and broke down, you know who wouldn't be able to understand why she's so sad about it, Zuko. He'd be like but you got revenge and closure this is what you wanted, btw are you still mad at me. )

That being said, I hate how this whole episode was used to build up and remind everyone of Aang's believes about killing and justice right before the big finale.

Cause before this episode it hadn't been brought up in ages, and all of a sudden they're like hey here's a reminder of Aangs moral issues, how is it gonna play out dun dun dun.

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[majorannah]

I don't like the ship war around The Southern Raiders and about "whether Aang or Zuko were right," but I really don't think there's any reading of the episode which makes Zuko look good. Zuko is mad because Katara hasn't forgiven him yet, like forgiveness is his right. So he goes and angrily confronts her about things, and she tells about stuff he actually did: backstabbing and betraying her when she trusted him and helping conquer Ba Sing Se, while throwing in a random line about her mother.

Zuko naturally decides that it can't be that Katara hates him for his many awful actions or for being a serial backstabber, it must be an entirely irrational thing on her part over something that isn't his fault, so he goes behind her back to his new best buddy Sokka and dredges up Sokka's trauma.

Then, when Zuko convinces Katara to go on his little vengeance trip, it doesn't even occur to him to see if Sokka might also be interested in taking revenge on his mother's killer, since Sokka had already forgiven him and that means Zuko doesn't give a fuck about his opinion anymore, because Zuko is such a good friend. When Sokka and Aang say "hey wait this isn't a great idea," Zuko responds by viciously mocking Aang's culture, a culture Zuko's ancestors genocided.

When it turns out that Zuko did not, in fact, know how to find Yon Rha (seriously if Katara's memory wasn't so good they would have ended up murdering the "wrong man" and never realized it), he conducts an "enhanced interrogation" (i.e. torture) on the new Southern Raiders commander until he gives them information.

Kind of the kicker of it all is that Yon Rha's "big crime" is that he raided the Southern Watertribe. Guess what Zuko was doing a few months ago? Zuko is endorsing a theory of "justice" which would make it legitimate for any one of his many victims to exact terrible vengeance on him, and he doesn't even seem to realize it. That's not even mentioning the Iroh-shaped hole here.

Aang is also having a lot of trouble connecting with Katara in this episode, so it's not like the episode particularly supports Kataang, but he at least is actually trying not be a jerk to her.

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[majorannah]

While I enjoy the Southern Raiders tremendously as an episode, particularly loving the focus on Katara and her trauma, I always hated that at the core, it was essentially a fetchquest for Zuko to "gain Katara's allegiance."

Look, there's characters organically bonding over one character's trauma. That's not happening here. This is a clumsy attempt at tying up a loose end and continuing the pattern of Zuko's life changing fieldtrips with Sokka and Aang.

Aang and Sokka's "field trip destinatons" come up rather organically, for Aang it's the necessity of learning firebending and for Sokka, it was a very fresh, even current worry for his father's safety.

While Katara and Zuko's bonding (if you can even call it that, they don't really bond, just go on a murder road trip and barely speak lol) in Southern Raiders feels very... forced.

As much as I love the Southern Raiders, I think Zuko and Katara's relationship was done dirty in it. Their relationship is fascinating because they're very similar people, pushed apart by a ton of animosity and age old hurt.

And then all this is just resolved as if someone were checking a box off a list.

Essentially Zuko in the Southern Raiders episode is me in Skyrim playing through a fetch quest so I can unlock a follower lol

Also if we're being honest the episode kinda made Zuko super unlikeable with the whole "digging up a girls tragic backstory from her brother in order to use it to get her to like you" and the dismissive shitty comment about Aang's culture.

[majorannah]

Honestly the loudest parts of the Zutara fandom and how it portrays its ship remind me of a lot of fans of shallow hadesxpersephone girlboss retellings. They claim to be feminists and yet prove they’re deeply misogynistic in so many ways. They try to project their own piddling modern American issues onto the main girl when it’s like forcing a circle into a square hole. It has the girls with their families and friends protrayed as holding them back/their man being the only one who ‘gets them’ or really cares : when a mere read or watch at the oldest sources/original canon material we have prove that to be laughably untrue. Katara is a girl who is suffering from the effects of an attempted genocide in being the last southern waterbender who will do anything to protect the people she has, who also love and care for her. Persephone is a kidnapped victim with a mother who loves her and she also loves and deeply wish to be together again. Excuse me if I think they have more pressing issues than the ones you have completely imagined for them. Their own mommy issues are weak and pathetic in comparison. But I guess they have to break K or P down into shallow pieces or else they’d never really ‘get’ them. Because even though they’re understandable by anyone with half a brain they’re not ´relateable’ to these people. I guarantee if Kya was alive and expressed disapprove for Zuko they’d bay for blood the same way such people do for Demeter.

loool the last part. so accurate

i think there’s a name for this phenomenon you’re describing called the cinderella trope? isolating the fmc and imagining the prince that swoops in and saves her from all her close family and friends that hate her

except katara’s loved ones don’t hate her at all

reminds me of how people try to dismiss sokka’s feelings in the southern raider for disagreeing with zuko

again i say, a lot of this removal of katara form her community comes down to the fact that not only would her family back home completely lose their minds over that ship, but that aang is actually loved by her family and her wider community.

i’ve even seen hcs of sokka bragging about his b-i-l being the firelord (why would he ever do that???) when it’s canon he brags about aang being the avatar. it’s like they hate ka but they want the dynamics they have even outside of the 2 of them. and if they can’t have it they act like those dynamics are not that important (aang and the swt)

[majorannah]

The way this fanbase is trying so HARD to make Aang and the Air Nomads look bad because they want to defend Zuko (the guy who was a colonizer for two seasons and OPENLY racist with Katara, Sokka and Aang, but they do not care) and the Fire Nation, aka the GENOCIDAL COLONIZERS nation it's.....insane. just insane

They are calling Aang and the Air Nomads "jerks" and "morally superior".....the characters who were GENOCIDED by the people they are stanning so badly

Mind you, everything Gyatso said about the Fire Nation and Roku is the truth. Literally everything. And Aang had worn fur and animal hats before and he had no problem with it Imao he's one of the most respectful characters in the series GOD FORBID if he made "harsh" comments about dead animals, he's the only character who can't have "flaws" in this series. Fake nice guy :(

it is 2024. its about time zutaras got their heads out of their asses and stopped talking nonsense about a piece of media they've distorted so much in their minds that any kind of contribution they make to the conversation is about a whole fanfiction that has nothing to do with atla

It's getting ridiculous

[majorannah]

How does Iroh talk about Ozai vs How does Iroh talk about Azula

Iroh only discusses his brother and his niece a few times in the series, yet I believe we can detect patterns which reveal how he feels about them. Much more under the cut.

Keep reading

[majorannah]

Characters that it would make more sense that Hakoda would adopt than Zuko

Sure, Zuko is abused, badly traumatized, and has an abusive father and missing mother, but there are three things which make it much less likely Hakoda would adopt him:

1. He, at least theoretically, already has a loving, adult caretaker(I could go on and on about the flaws with Iroh’s “parenting,” but it’s not like Zuko doesn’t have anyone).

2. He’s relatively old (unfortunately, teenagers are not exactly considered to be prime candidates for adoption). 16 years old might even count as “adult” by water tribe standards. Yue was “of marrying age” when she turned 16.

3.  He’s from an enemy nation(and to be clear, just about no “Hakoda adopts Zuko” fics I’m aware of begin postcanon or even after Zuko joins the Gaang).

4. He has a series of objectives which might involve doing stuff like “raiding the Southern Water Tribe, attacking Hakoda’s village, and threatening and inflicting violence on Hakoda’s family” in his search for the Avatar.

Who would make more sense for Hakoda to adopt?

Aang:

1. Relatively young (12 years old).

2. Suffered the genocide of his entire people and the death of his father figure, and is in desperate need of adult supervision as he deals with a nasty and trying set of responsibilities.

3. Is already very close with Hakoda’s children, to the extent he’s basically their adopted sibling.

4. Is already allied with Hakoda and fighting for a cause he supports.

Toph:

1. Relatively young (12 years of age).

2. Already an ally of Team Avatar, and is extremely close to them.

3. Very much “can’t go back home,” since her parents would imprison her if she did.

4. Could really benefit from adult supervision and support.

The Duke:

1. Orphan.

2. Only eight years old.

3. Not only is an ally of Hakoda but seems to have spent a substantial amount of time with him.

Jet, Smellerbee, Longshot:

1. Orphans with no adults looking out for them.

2. Seem to (at least potentially) be somewhat younger than Zuko.

3. Fighting on the same side of the war as Hakoda is.

[majorannah]

I do think there’s an interesting disconnect between how Katara and Sokka on one hand and Jet and his Freedom Fighters view Fire Nation civilians which is best explained by the different policies of imperialism the Fire Nation pursued in the Southern Water Tribe and the Earth Kingdom.

You see, the Fire Nation didn’t see the Southern Water Tribe as occupying desirable economic territory. Their genocidal attacks against the SWT are motivated due to fear of its power and contempt and hatred toward waterbending, but the Fire Nation has no interest in territorially occuppying the Antarctic, made particularly care by the fact they seem to lose most of their interest once the power of the SWT has been “broken.”  As a result, there is no policy of occupation or building permanent settlements, while the campaigns themselves are almost solely carried out by uniformed soldiers and sailors. Fire Nation civilians are critical to the campaigns through their support for the war effort, but the SWT victims of the Fire Nation’s raids almost never see them, instead almost solely being exposed to soldiers and sailors. As a result, Katara and Sokka regard Fire Nation soldiers to be intensely threatening, but don’t regard Fire Nation civilians to be threats and are often even sympathetic to them. They make no commentary on the Fire Nation policies of settler-colonialism when they encounter them in the Earth Kingdom.

By contrast, the Fire Nation is intensely interested in the Earth Kingdom’s land and resources.  It pursues a policy of settler-colonialism there, aiming to exert imperial control while seizing land and resources.  “Civilian” settlers are a tool and weapon of imperial control and domination, critical for establishing power. Thus, Jet and his friends, as victims of settler-colonialism, perceive Fire Nation civilians as intensively threatening and as engaging in acts of aggression through their mere presence.

Thoughts? It all makes me feel like we really needed to have Jet join the Gaang.

[majorannah]

back on the hating zuko(‘s stans) agenda

I hate when zuko stans portray katara as an absolute bitch for being rightfully upset at him in b3. I especially hate it when they make sokka act like his knight in shining armor so that their ‘smol bean isn’t hurt :(‘ and ‘meanie stupid katara gets karma >:)’ like oh brother this guy STINKS! ew!

or when zuko stans completely ignore a character’s issues or, when it’s mentioned, use it as a transition to talk about his. like I’m sorry but not everything’s about your zukey bear. please stop.

OR OR OR when his stans act like it’s the trauma olympics and they constantly one-up other characters’ issues.

you could mention how kya’s death was sad and they’d be like, “oh katara and sokka’s mom is dead? by the fire nation? and you think it’s really sad? yeah well zuko’s mom ran away which is actually worse because he doesn’t know if shes dead or alive and that’s way worse than seeing her charred corpse and actually sokka and katara had each other to grieve with so they’re ok but zuko had NOBODY at all because azula is mean and ozais horrible and also sokka and katara had a good dad so their mom’s death is literally like nothing compared to zuko’s mom being missing and azula being mean and ozai being evil. so yea ig kya’s death was sad for them or whatever but let’s remember what zuko had to deal with”

i’m sorry I just had to complain about zuko stans because I saw a shit take about the water sibs from one of them and it pissed me off to no end. they need to stay far from my pro watertribefam corner

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[majorannah]

Ozai: can create dual lighting without the need to do the circular motion with his arms, unlike Azula and Iroh.

Iroh: literally says in the finale that he didn't think he could defeat Ozai.

Fandumb:

I swear, Iroh could be on a poll for "who is the strongest waterbender" and still somehow win.

[majorannah]

fun prank idea for service workers: if someone comes into your job asking for a veteran discount, surreptitiously toss a handful of these down behind the counter and act confused when they ask what that sound was

[majorannah]

It's so rare to see people complain that Katara wasn't part of the mission that freed her father and that Sokka wasn't part of the mission that confronted his mother's killer.

Of the 10 ATLA episodes after DoBS:

Nine are Zuko-focused(either totally on him or him sharing the spotlight with another character).

One, the Ember Island Players, is focused either on no one really or on Zuko and Aang(it’s definitely not focused on Toph, Sokka, Suki, or Katara).

Five are Aang-focused(”The Firebending Masters,” plus the four episodes of the series finale).

Two are focused on Sokka.

One is focused on Katara.

Zero are focused on Toph(who got only like three episodes which focused on her in the entire series!).

Zero are focused on Suki(Do we learn anything about her in this entire period which we don’t already know?).

The degree to which Zuko took over the narrative in the final stretch of the series is usually not acknowledged. Basically every episode became about him.

[majorannah]

The thing is, Iroh had multiple occasions to admit his guilt of BSS seige, yet each time he brings up BSS or someone brings it up: Iroh doesn't admit his gulit.

- book 1, when the EK soliders brought BSS seige up to him, Iroh only said he was tired and his men were tired (despite in Zuko Alone scene, he was shown having a good time in a comfortable tent and didn't think calling off the seige until he got his son killed by the resistance)

- book 2, when he and Zuko arrived at the shore of BSS: Iroh says this is the place of his military disgrace and now he's a tourist as he puts on a silly hat.

- book 2, Azula's tea trap, Iroh sees the palace of the Earth King, he says he expected himself to stands here as a conqueror, not as a man serving tea.

- book 3, Iroh brought up what he did wrong in BSS: it was a misinterpreted vision! Then he went to the city in the day of Sozin's Comet where the soliders' firepower are 100× more enhanced (which logically would put his team, Piandao a non-bender swordman, Pakku a waterbender and Bumi an earthbener as well as the civilians within the city in danger) because the writing of Iroh's reasoning here suggests that Iroh desires to experience the power of the comet for his conquest. "Only once every hundred years can a firebender experience this kind of power."

- book 3, Iroh standing in front of the palace of the Earth King as a conqueror, but burning the FN flag and smirking proudly; having fulfilled his "destiny".

Iroh letting Aang almost getting killed by Ozai, Zuko and Katara almost getting killed by Azula, Sokka, Suki and Toph almost fallen off the airships (all armed by plot armor) just because of his ego and obscure notions of destiny.

[majorannah]

you can really tell that katara is the narrator of atla whose perspective is foregrounded by virtue of the fact that her older brother is often framed as the lamest guy ever who deserves to be treated as the universe’s human punching bag at all times, when objectively speaking he is cooler, wiser, braver, and more accomplished as a teenager than pretty much anyone could ever hope to be in their entire lives . we only forget this because his hating little sister is the hero of the story and our pov thru which we explore her world. and you know what ?? that’s feminism <333

[majorannah]

https://www.tumblr.com/burst-of-iridescent/686372912825040896/i-hope-you-dont-mind-me-adding-onto-your-post-op?source=share

"if zutara had followed through as their dynamic happened in canon, katara would have entered the partnership as an equal, marrying into a country that solely needs to make reparations. they would be getting together after the war, to the benefit of both nations. "

"none of us will marry the teenage rulers of countries that were formerly at war with ours, but many of us do know men like book 3 aang - men who take from us without giving in return, who feel entitled to our affection, who call us “their” girl, make us feel uncomfortable, and force advances on us. "

I really curious what do you think about it?

"She would enter the relationship as an equal, marrying into a country that raided her home for decades, kidnapping and killing people, and that is being FORCED to stop because ONE guy is feeling sorry about it, everyone else would have gladly kept at it" Zutarians once again trying to sweep "The Fire Nation thinks Katara is not a human being and should be killed" under the rug to pretend it is the "feminist nation" just because they wanted to genocide her too instead of just Aang.

"None of us will marry the teenage rulers of the countries that were formerly GENOCIDING US"

1 - Sexual tourism/trafficking is still a thing, dipshit, and most of the LITTLE GIRLS that end up falling victim to it are usually even younger than 14-year-old Katara. And, you guessed it, war and imperialism played a key role in what countries have more victims, and even entire systems dedicated to making money off of that kind of exploitation because surprise surprise, people who live in a country that regularly gets torn apart by a foreign power tend to be in super vulnerable situations. As someone from a country in which that is sadly still common, hearing someone literally go "NO ONE goes through anything remotely like that" made me see red.

2 - Historically, that kind of marriage (or a "marriage" that was just a kidnaping that involved a ceremony) has happened. A lot. And again, depending on where in the world you look, it still fucking happens.

3 - Every day you can find horror stories of people realizing their partner or spouse is actually a racist that either fetished them, or was ashamed of them for their race, or slowly started treating them like garbage and disrespecting their culture because they thought they could get away with it if.

And even if none of that stuff ever existed - Katara would still be in that situation if zutarians got what they wanted. She'd be a young girl marrying into a nation that hates her and would, at best, expect her to forsake her culture and family and be just the pretty, exotic, non-threatening wife, or at worst want her and Zuko dead for the crime of an interracial relationship. That's not a small obstacle to face and would very much mean Katara is NOT his equal because the natural power imballance of "My nation has been genociding yours for a hundred years" is a bit difficult to break, and this aversion to acknowledging that is what makes so many zutara fics be accidentally racist. Either make an AU to remove that entire thing, or embrace that as an obstacle that you OTP would have to fight to overcome so the fic has high stakes, but stop telling everyone to ignore the elephant in the room for the love of God.

And I won't even get into the gross mischaracterization of Aang. Katara was simping for that boy for three seasons. We repeatedly saw her get jealous when other girls were giving him attention, and her innitiating kisses with him, and her being FURIOUS when he said "I don't wanna kiss you." If you think he's a creepy stalker that forced himself on her, you're delusional. He was the best friend that had a MUTUAL crush on her and eventually became her boyfriend, you're just mad he's not Zuko (who was never into Katara, and whom she never had feelings for either)

This person desperately needs to read a book, watch the news, watch a documentary, go outside, talk to people, and touch some fucking grass because HOLY SHIT the delusion. The zutara corner really has some of the most racist motherfuckers in the entire ATLA fandom - which is saying a lot considering how racist the other corners can get.

[majorannah]

I've seen people feel so sorry for Zuko when he experiences assassination attempts as Fire Lord. Like how they'd need therapy and how they'd have trouble sleeping, how much toll it takes on a person. But when the gaang experience assassination attempts, then people double down on the show's jokes, like Sparky-Sparky Boom Man. The bias is grating. I thought it's a major flaw in the show, and it's sad to see so much of the fandom double down.

Other anon is right about the uwu Zuko treatment in fanfic. Especially because they amp it up to make you feel sadder for him than Aang because at the end of the day his story will never be as sad as Aangs, so they gotta be extra with it.

Zuko - Abusive dad (mostly emotionally and mental, though there area few physically abusive moments) aside from the biggest bad thing that happened to him was Zhao trying to kill him. Other than that his story isn't that sad.

But fanfic writers will double down and talk about the trauma of almost being killed by Zhao, yet stay silent over Aang's trauma of almost drowning, actually getting killed because of Zuko and Azula, being threatened with being tortured and kept barley alive by Zhao. Like yall?

I didn't mean to turn this into the pity olympics but the woobified zuko fics kill me. He truly didnt' have it as bad as they make.

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[majorannah]

Zuko's life-changing field trips sorta feel like vanity projects for Zuko's ego. Yeah, Zuko wanted to be liked and trusted, and yeah, that would take a while after every awful thing Zuko consciously chose to do to victimize these people, but... The timing was odd. The others didn't know that, but Zuko did.

Zuko chose to spend time prioritizing building up his reputation with them and chose to withhold the information that would make them put all that aside and focus on teaming up for a goal. And then once he was done, screamed at them all for wasting time even though he knew he didn't tell the true stakes to them.

I know Zuko is canonically kinda stupid, but he had to know that if he mentioned his dad was actively planning a genocide against the Earth Kingdom, and Zuko knew the location and date and method of it, that the gaang would have immediately focused on that and reluctantly worked with Zuko as a wary but necessary ally kept at arm's length. Zuko just wanted to slot in as a cherished friend and part of the group before they got to all that business. More than he wanted to mention the time-sensitive genocide that only Zuko knew was coming.

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