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megumithegreat · 27 days ago

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Lies of P, Frankenstein, and How Paradise Lost Ties into Them

I've just finished reading Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, and thanks to some realizations in-game, Frankenstein is the other major work that provides the foundation to Lies of P.

I'm exceptionally tired, so trying to do this while barely being conscious means I might not highlight all things. But I can always come back and add to it. As usual, I'm not really looking for discussion as much as just wanting to write this down.

In addition to Lies of P being a dark spin on The Adventures of Pinocchio by Carlo Collodi, elements from Frankenstein are as evident as the elements of Paradise Lost by John Milton. You can read that analysis here.

This time, in somewhat of a struggle to read after the monster that is Paradise Lost, I dove back into my pile of required reading for understanding and appreciating Lies of P to read Frankenstein. As it turns out, Mary Shelley's literary repertoire offered many insights into the story that she created in a friendly ghost story contest among her friends, including but not limited to Paradise Lost. Frankenstein thus was a macabre spin on the epic poem. In my previous post, I highlighted that the epic poem had some analogies and references in Lies of P, but little did I know that the "Frankenstein" side of Lies of P would be the bridge.

God and His Creation, Simon and His Father

There is a large focus in Lies of P on the relationship between a father and his son. I stated before this look at that relationship, coupled with various documents that pointed it out, underscores a religious aspect I'd attributed solely to the epic poem. I had not read all of Paradise Lost at the time, and I certainly hadn't read Frankenstein. After reading Frankenstein, Simon Manus's Confession seems like a direct reference to the feelings that the Creature feels upon his "birth" at Victor Frankenstein's hands.

Simon revered his father, who tortured him, as a god among men. Simon developed the ability to read minds, but he was deemed a failure by his father and cast aside. This abandonment crushed Simon, which sets in motion his desire to transcend God and create a world where there are no lies. While Simon's allusion to the Creature is not readily evident, the feelings in both figures are nearly identical. It is unclear if Simon sought to destroy his father like how the Creature (rightfully) pursued Victor. Furthermore, Simon seems to have been a creation, "born from clay", and not a son by blood.

When P finds Simon at the top of the Abbey, he no longer looks like a man but as a monster:

With extra limbs and a deformed body. Though, this form might be reference to yet another novel, The Hunchback of Notre Dame by Victor Hugo, but I have to wait to read that one, as there are a few allusions to that story.

After P defeats Simon Manus (in Phase 1), we see him transform into a recreation of The Creation of Adam by Michelangelo, tying Frankenstein to Paradise Lost as Mary Shelley did in her novel.

But Simon isn't the only character meant to encapsulate Frankenstein.

Victor Isn't Just a Champion, and the Carcasses Aren't Just Monsters

The most on-the-nose reference to Frankenstein is Champion Victor. The name "Victor" here has two meanings:

Victor, as in the triumphant one, one who takes victory

Victor Frankenstein

According to Resurrection! Champion Victor Has Returned!, Champion Victor was a great wrestler that died of a mysterious illness (likely of Petrification Disease). He was miraculously brought back to life and better than ever. Aside from his name being the nod to the story, Champion Victor is similar to the Creature both in part of his resurrection and in his design.

Victor may be "alive" but he still looks dead. His body is riddled with holes for different attachments, and he is sustained (in Phase 1) by the same nasal apparatus that Alchemists wear. He was a failure as well, though, and his successor is Laxasia, another human turned "creature".

But this also means that the Carcasses that hunt down P were all failures, in varying states of decay. En masse, the Alchemists created an army of Creatures that were tossed out and forced to fend for themselves (however delirious and animalistic they had become). Much like Creature, they subsist on what they can find, but only beings like Victor or Laxasia have the luxury of being almost human with an ego.

By creating the Carcasses, whom are all the results of failed experiments to force humans to evolve and ascend into immortality, the Alchemists fill the role of Victor Frankenstein.

Geppetto, God, and the Puppets

If Simon and the Alchemists are Victor Frankensteins, who also aimed to achieve a godlike feat in reanimating a corpse, then what of Geppetto?

As stated before, Geppetto saw himself as a god or a devil in his malicious compliance to grant Romeo's wish and turn him into a puppet. Victor Frankenstein had made the same allusion to himself, ultimately cursing himself when he created his Monster. This, however, is not the specific trait that tie the two together.

There are two camps of thought, here I refer to the Narcissism camp. Just as Victor never saw what he did as wrong and made the Creature out to be the one that must be killed, Geppetto never sees a problem in all that he does to get P to amass Ergo for the sole purpose of stealing his P-Organ to properly revive his son. He claims to do it out of love for Carlo (but if that were the case, he shouldn't have ever neglected him!) His confession that what he does to Romeo will either make him a god or devil underscores the grandeur in which he sees himself. He presumably knew from Camille (First Discovery, Camille) that Ergo was, in short, crystallized versions of people's souls and that, by placing Ergo in puppets, people that succumbed to Petrification Disease could come back to life. Romeo was a success in a way, but he is a puppet. Puppets had to be fitted with the Grand Covenant to keep them in check, and for the purposes of his plan, Romeo had to be shackled until the time was right. But Romeo isn't as much of Frankenstein's Monster as he is Satan (Paradise Lost), though in Frankenstein, the Creature does sympathize with Satan. Briefly, Romeo is characterized in the fire associated with him, the idea of sin (Divine Comedy) that Geppetto seems to look at Romeo with, Romeo's uprising against Geppetto and the Alchemists, and that Rosa Isabelle Street, or Paradise Island or Eden (imagery of roses) of The Adventures of Pinocchio and Paradise Lost, becomes Pandemonium in Paradise Lost.

Geppetto's first success to an extent was the Nameless Puppet, the puppet he created fitted with the first P-Organ, that which precedes the P-Organ in P, and the puppet he tried to make using Carlo's corpse. The Nameless Puppet, however, ended up a harrowing failure. Sure, it woke up, but the P-Organ was destructive and threatened to use up Carlo's Ergo and the puppet itself was fueled by insurmountable hatred. Geppetto ended up sealing away the Nameless Puppet and instead created P after perfecting his craft. P being the perfect vehicle until there was enough Ergo accumulated, Geppetto was essentially a god for creating the puppets ("[he's] their maker, practically their father!" -Mad Donkey) but a devil because there is no divinity and only narcissism (per the very specific placement of a daffodil and narcissus article placed on his desk), much like how Victor Frankenstein views himself and is a theme of Mary Shelley's novel.

For a tangent, I have tried to find the relation of P to Nameless Puppet in the context of Frankenstein, but my mind instead wanders to Penny Dreadful which uses Frankenstein for a subplot but adds in an extra detail: Proteus. I highly doubt the devs watched Penny Dreadful, but the second phase of the final battle feels very similar:

In Penny Dreadful, the Creature kills Proteus (Frankenstein's much more successful reanimated corpse and technically Creature's "younger brother") out of hatred for Proteus and despair that Frankenstein could just toss Creature out and replace him with a better version of himself. In Lies of P, Geppetto controls Nameless Puppet (Carlo's reanimated corpse) to at the very least beat P (Carlo's soul and memories) into submission to give up his heart.

Where Creature completely destroys Proteus, P is saved by Geppetto and tears out Nameless Puppet's P-Organ and crushes it. To look at it from Paradise Lost or rather what is supposed to come after when Adam and Eve are banished from Paradise, this can almost be thought of a spin on Cain and Abel.

Geppetto's Deaths and Victor's Death

In the Real Boy ending, Carlo's body and soul are reunited to create the perfect Frankenstein's Monster that is bound to his "God" father's paranoia. As Geppetto commands or convinces him, Carlo slaughters his friends so that Geppetto can replace them with puppets all bound to the Grand Covenant. Geppetto gets a new loyal son. He gets cake and eats it, too.

But in the Freed from the Puppet String ending and in the Rise of P ending, Geppetto is killed by the Nameless Puppet as he protects the P-Organ containing Carlo's heart (which also saves P). The sentiments that Geppetto's expresses are different.

In the Freed from the Puppet String ending, Geppetto is disappointed or otherwise shows contempt at P's failure to become a human.

In the Rise of P ending, where P sheds a single tear over the death of his Creator, Geppetto realizes (unlike Frankenstein) how he's caused Carlo so much unnecessary pain.

In Frankenstein, there are two sides to the story, but we are only presented Frankenstein's side because he is the unreliable narrator and Walton is our empathetic and bleeding heart passive listener. Through Walton's listening to the events, we are to believe that Frankenstein is a nobleman whose life was destroyed by a monstrosity that haunted him and killed everyone he loved. Frankenstein even specifically tells Walton that the Creature's eloquence and vocabulary is by all means a ruse to confuse him. The Creature, however, at Frankenstein's deathbed and before Walton exposes that his Creator lied and never once spoke of how much suffering he himself was forced to endure because of Victor's folly.

Geppetto's contempt in Freed from the Puppet String is analogous to the lies that Frankenstein tells. After all, it is obvious that Geppetto says things he knows P (Carlo's memory, soul, personality) wants to hear to turn him human. When the lie collapses and P fails to become human, there's no reason to continue pretending to care. But the Rise of P ending underscores perhaps what might have been a moment of reflection that Frankenstein never had. At the end of life, Geppetto shows a hint of remorse...but is it genuine? Who knows, people will say anything when they're about to die.

The final point to be made: Creature never got to kill Frankenstein, but Nameless Puppet accidentally kills Geppetto. This moment is a parallel, opposite of each other. Creature had gone his entire life menacing his Creator in hopes of making him bend for a single wish, to create for him a wife so that they could live in some sort of peace together. Frankenstein destroys the work on Creature's Bride then proceeds to ruin his own life because of his fear of the Creature. But Nameless Puppet was indiscriminate in his hatred. Geppetto had kept him under control until P cut off his cranium and severed some connection from Geppetto. As Creature kills Proteus in Penny Dreadful and Cain kills Abel in the Bible, Nameless Puppet set out to destroy P only for Geppetto to do what Frankenstein could not and attempt to stop Nameless Puppet from destroying the very last remnant of Carlo's memory.

There is a brief moment where the Nameless Puppet seems to be shocked that his Creator defended his successor, which seems somewhat reminiscent of the shock and regret that the Creature feels upon finding that Frankenstein succumbed to his illness in Walton's ice raft. With his Creator dead, Creature has little to no reason to continue, and he leaves after declaring he plans to burn himself to death.

I would be interested to see how Frankenstein, Paradise Lost/Divine Comedy, and more of The Adventures of Pinocchio fit into the DLC. I've purposely been avoiding seeing too much because I want that razzle-dazzle surprise. But I expect that the DLC may have some more juxtapositions as we learn more about the Alchemists and Valentinus.

#lies of p #I did a literary analysis again #frankenstein #paradise lost #geppetto is a terrible father #carlo #p #romeo #simon manus

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megumithegreat · 29 days ago

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Reblogging this one as well--I wish there was a way to compile these posts

On Flowers and The Meanings in Lies of P

Addendum: This took me like 2 hours to write and I still have so much to say on so many other things but I must temper myself and disappear from here again (inevitably to go write more fanfiction).

lol I'm actually making a real post on Tumblr because IG isn't enough. I don't actually intend to discuss this with anyone, I just wanted to muse in a space that isn't it restricted by characters or the space on my phone screen.

SPOILERS AHEAD for LIES OF P and THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY BTW

Many things in the game have some too-specific-to-be-nothing details, such as being able to liken some of Dante's Divine Comedy (especially Paradiso) and most recently potentially John Milton's Paradise Lost to Lies of P (somewhere on my IG and my BSky, but tbh Lies of P deals a lot with Christianity, see La Pietà and The Creation of Adam both by Michelangelo) and the direct reference of The Picture of Dorian Gray regarding the portrait, and potentially Frankenstein (I'll be reading after Paradise Lost). These are just literary references, but I believe even Galileo Galilei has a nod or two in the game (particularly, celestial bodies and orreries).

Also: Dante, Michelangelo, Galileo Galilei, and Carlo Collodi are all from Florence, Italy and John Milton really liked visiting Florence. The web of connections continues :D

But back on topic: last week or so, I was playing Lies of P after a bit of Bloodborne and I noticed something on Geppetto's desk:

On his desk, he has an article about daffodils (narcissus flowers). Now, this is a strangely specific detail for EnvArt to have, isn't it? Except when you consider that flowers have specific associations in Lies of P. So why would Geppetto have this article on his desk, and why Geppetto?

The Meaning of Daffodils

Daffodils have mixed positive and negative symbolism. They are associated with the Greek mythology of Narcissus, who fell so deeply in love with his reflection in a pond that he never moved and eventually died. In his stead, a yellow flower named after him grew.

In most cultures, daffodils symbolize rebirth, rejuvenation, new beginnings, good fortune and wealth (if multiple), and hope/optimism/strength (particularly in the context of cancer or hardship). It's a spring flower, growing after winter, and a bright and cheerful flower. Daffodils, thus, have a mostly positive connotation.

But flowers tend to have multiple meanings.

Daffodils, because of their name sake and depending on the color, can also symbolize selfishness (purple) and broken love. If there is a single daffodil, that might represent misfortune (depending on the cultural context).

At first glance, I had assumed that the positive daffodil connotation represented his hope in P and his desire to make Carlo reborn.

Geppetto and Daffodils

To find this article on Geppetto's desk, especially if you know the truth about Geppetto, it makes sense depending on your interpretation of how he treats Carlo/P, disregarding the sheer chaos he caused just to accomplish his goal.

If you believe that Geppetto truly loved Carlo and loves P, then the daffodils in the article might represent broken love (and possibly remorse). He does feel regret for having ignored Carlo to the point of emotional neglect and not even showing up for graduation, and perhaps this is why he puts so much care into making sure P looks exactly as Carlo did whenever he found his corpse. The Real Boy ending and the implications of it suggest that Geppetto truly wanted his son back

[My camp] If you believe that Geppetto used P as a means to an end and Carlo's rebirth was actually to make him feel like Dad of the Year (y'all even Neowiz knows he's a shit dad lol), then the daffodils in the article might actually represent selfishness and narcissism. Perhaps he loved the idea of having a son, and by manipulating Carlo's memories within P, he would get his son back and maintain the "lie" of being a trustworthy dad (which this is a question he asks you).

Additionally, to tie in some Picture of Dorian Gray (by Oscar Wilde, who was gay, but that's a whole other topic, and I think there's at least one other post that talks about homosexuality in Lies of P). One of the themes of Dorian Gray is vanity and narcissism and the ruination they cause. So in love with himself to the point that almost everyone except Lord Henry is beneath him, Dorian Gray drives at least two people to suicide and murders Basil when he confesses his love and offers to help him come back from the corruption.

When Geppetto states that he had D. Gray paint the portrait of Carlo to capture his soul, and having the article of Daffodils and Narcissus on his desk, I myself am inclined to think this was all out of self-pity and ego.

Sources used for Daffodils

https://www.floraly.com.au/blogs/news/daffodil-flower-meanings#:~:text=The%20daffodil%20symbolises%20rebirth%20and,%2C%20resilience%2C%20forgiveness%20and%20vitality.

https://www.almanac.com/content/march-birth-flower

https://flower-meanings.com/daffodil-meaning/

Tonight, I had an epiphany after defeating Romeo again on NG+2. There is a specific reason why white lilies are depicted with P's P-Organ on the title screen.

After all, you'd expect to see roses, wouldn't you?

The Meaning of White Lilies

White lilies symbolize commonly symbolize purity and innocence, and in Christianity, divine femininity (in association to the Virgin Mary). Like daffodils, they are also a spring flower and can represent fertility, rebirth, renewal, and new beginnings.

White lilies are also associated with the crown chakra, which is focused in the cranium or the top of the head. The associated color of this chakra is violet (the color of nobility and royalty).

In literature, poetry, and art; white lilies are often used as a symbol of the devotion and love in addition to purity and innocence. It can even mean protection by a spiritual guardian.

White lilies are often used in ceremonies. They can mean commitment and used for marriages. They can also represent death and funerals, but still for positive connotations, as death can mean purification of the soul.

Romeo and White Lilies

Romeo's association to white lilies in the title screen is underscored by the background also being his precious theater set on fire. There are hints that become more like statements starting at the end of Chapter 4 when you receive "Divine Service" from Cecile if you help her, through Chapter 5 (Malum District), through Chapter 6 to the climax where we learn most of what happened to Romeo after Carlo's death (including the whisper "Carlo..." upon talking to Sophia about the necklace). From Chapter 7 through the rest of the game, it's Romeo that exposes Geppetto's lies.

Romeo and Carlo were in a deeply romantic and most likely sexual relationship indicated by all of the text descriptions/lyrics of "Divine Service", "Someday", "Fascination", and other items, and loading screens ("brotherly love" is often a way to circumvent saying "gay" in games/writing). There is no doubt, especially when Romeo's Ergo catalyzes the beginning of P's transformation by reminding him of who he is. Moreover, Romeo's dialogue all show a desire to protect Krat and a desire to protect Carlo/P. When he is the one to expose Geppetto's lies, that is the moment that he himself is trying to keep P safe. There is never any malice, even when Romeo says he must kill P to stop it all; he is reluctant to harm him and praises him in his final message.

White lilies persist on the title screen until P arrives on the beach ahead of the Isle of Alchemists or so, as if to tell the player that P isn't alone. And we know he's not, but Romeo is absorbed into him and, as he says upon player death, he'll "always be with [Carlo]".

To draw another connection to The Picture of Dorian Gray and flowers, Romeo's role to Carlo/P is very similar to that of Basil (the painter) if we are to assume that Geppetto is analogous to Lord Henry. Both Basil and Romeo sought to protect the boys they loved, only to be denigrated and murdered by their manipulators Lord Henry and Geppetto.

Bonus: there exists a Stargazer lily, so this might potentially be a nod to this species

Sources used for White Lilies

https://windflowerflorist.com/blogs/news/types-white-lilly-flower?srsltid=AfmBOoo4WEwm-YuQB5u2Xfs2x4o9vM2vcui6dzHCmUZFLLHn-EHy4mqH#ruffruff-table-of-contents-item-1

https://www.bloomandwild.com/the-blog/lily-flower-meaning

https://foliagefriend.com/white-lily-flower-meaning/

Tidbits on Roses and Romeo & Carlo/P

Roses are often associated with Romeo, particularly because he is associated with red to contract with P's blue. Given that both Romeo and Carlo lived at the Rose Estate and that "Fascination" record is adorned with roses, it's hard to miss. Even "Divine Service" mentions in the description.

The DLC trailers show roses in association with the Legendary Stalker (even a closeup on her Monad Badge), and Fox says that P's fighting style is reminiscent if not exactly like the Legendary Stalker's style. So perhaps Romeo's association to roses might specify that he is Carlo/P's childhood lover. And since P has the ability to put Ergo he's absorbed elsewhere (as shown that he gave Sophia back her Ergo), Romeo continues to be carried in his heart.

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