meta-library-blog

[meta-library-blog]

I often hear people say that Thor, in Thor 1, broke the peace treaty with the Jotuns because he went to their realm and started fighting and killing them.However, technically, weren’t the Jotuns the first to break the agreement by infiltrating Asgard to retrieve the Casket?Of course, I know that from their point of view, what they did wasn’t evil, since the Casket is theirs and probably essential for their realm.But still, we could say it’s understandable that their action was taken as an act of rebellion, right?

And what if I said there never really was a peace treaty to begin with? Think about it. "In the end, their king fell and the source of their power was taken from them. With the last great war ended, we withdrew from the other worlds and returned home, to the realm eternal, Asgard."

With the war ended, and the casket missing, what options did the Jotuns have? None. Their planet was deteriorating and the journey to Asgard would have required either the use the Bifrost (which they couldn't access) or some of the hidden pathways (of which we are not sure whether they even exist in Jotunheim*). Jotunheim was cut off from the rest of the Nine Realms of which Odin was the (partially self-proclaimed?) protector.

*This is besides the point, but one could argue there were pathways shown, but I'd say this was in relation to the Convergence and thus irrelevant as it only happens every 5 000 years.

Odin likes to tell stories and repaint history which is why I would not rely on his retellings of what happened. I don't believe there was a peace treaty, I think this was just something he said as a supporting point to what he told Thor after the Jotuns' attempt to steal the Casket from Asgard's vault. T: The Jotuns must pay for what they've done. O: They have paid, with their lives. The Destroyer did its work, the Casket is safe and all is well. T: All is well? They broke into the weapons vault. If the Frost Giants had stolen even one of these relics- O: They didn't. T: Well I want to know why. O: I have a truce with Laufey, king of the Jotuns. T: He just broke your truce! etc.

After all, he was trying to convince Thor (and himself) that everything was under control. He needed Thor not to question his authority and to seem like a benevolent king and strategist. He certainly had never mentioned it up to that interaction because it had been more convenient to paint himself as this strong individual in his sons' eyes during their upbringing. He needed to establish this resentment and hatred towards the Jotuns and doing so via speaking of them as an equal race deserving a chance to end the war diplomatically would not have been as effective.

So, with this in mind, the question of who was first does not matter. It was whatever fit the situation at the moment and what worked in alignment with Odin's plan. He was the king after all and usually, what the king says, is taken as unchallenged truth. Now, if you want to get into the technical side of this, you could be right but then one could say he knew this was an inside job and then that would have led back to Asgard again, only it would have revealed possible instabilities in the palace's security.

As for the Jotuns, I doubt they'd have admitted this because it's easier to be seen as someone who had a choice.

[meta-library-blog]

Hi Abby, One thing I don't understand is the power scale. For example Odin seems much more powerful than Thor and Loki.

He seems to possess and know magic that not even Loki would know how to use, such as depriving Thor of his powers and giving Loki an Asgardian appearance, or the impositions he gives to Mjolnir. I also think I read somewhere that it would be the odinforce that gives gravity to Asgard?

But at the same time I don't understand why he didn't at least teach these spells to Thor who should be the successor to the crown.

Furthermore, I don't understand why in the war against Laufey he would have had such difficulty beating him, to the point of losing an eye. But then Thor seems very capable of destroying all of Jotuneim with his hammer and Loki simply kills Lufey by leaving him a spell with the scepter. Maybe they are script errors and the writers didn't think about it? Or am I just overestimating Odin's power?

Hey, everything you've mentioned here is really down to how you interpret it and I'll have to disagree with a lot of these statements.

Warning - long post

Now, I'm not gonna get too much into the details because I really don't feel like getting dragged into more discourse, but I'll start with the one that's perhaps the most controversial in the fandom - the supposed "spell" Odin put on Loki. I know that for some reason, people like this version, but I do not consider it canon, it just doesn't make sense to me. And before anyone jumps at this, no I don't see the book (Marvel Studios Visual Dictionary) as a relevant guide because oftentimes, the writers of such "additional" books aren't given every tiny worldbuilding detail (especially not the ones which weren't directly revealed in the movies) and thus end up making their own to put there. Does that make it canon? Technically, kind of, but not logically. It's the same as the T1 novel casually mentioning Odin's brothers even if the movie canon doesn't really hint at them (though that might be an inconvenient comparison as you can explain Vili and Vé better than said spell).

Why do I think this? Well, if you look at it from a strictly strategic point of view, it would be very risky/downright not work. We don't know whether Odin was already ill at the time of finding Loki, but would anything have happen to him during Loki's life, or simply after his inevitable death, the spell would fade and with it, the entire political scheme he had in mind involving Loki. From here on, I will be going into hc territory but this is how I see it. (You'd have to read my hcs about how I think magic works for this, but long story short, I don't believe it can be taught unless inherited.) I think, Loki, being a shapeshifter and someone with the predisposition to wield magic, shifted because he sensed that was needed for his survival when Odin held him. And I also think that was the final thing based on which Odin made the decision to take him in. Loki being one of the Aesir was exactly what Odin needed; being one of them, Loki wouldn't turn on them, he couldn't. I think that because this shift happened so early on in Loki's life, his body grew to see it as its natural state which is why he returns to it immediately after coming to contact with the Casket/the Jotun. If you look at it from a biological standpoint, Loki appearing as a born Aesir is much more than just skin colour change. The traits of the Aesir are so utterly different, involving things which are not present in the Jotuns at all (his original species can't grow hair (they don't need it), their eyes are completely different, so are their teeth etc. I could go on and on. His height changed, meaning he's got a different skeleton. That is a permanent shift have I ever seen one). That's a whole different species and even when he kind of shifted back for a few moments, he kept those traits. Now, I'm not saying that Loki's origins didn't leave a mark on his biology because they have (for example, look at the heat scans in TA, which might have been his recovery process after the torture he'd been through), but it is also canon (and obvious) he does feel cold, his breath shows up in Jotunheim (if we do see the novel as canon, then "Loki shivered and rubbed his arms".) etc. That is what I think about that one.

'Odin seems much more powerful than Thor and Loki.' 'He seems to possess and know magic that not even Loki would know how to use, such as depriving Thor of his powers and giving Loki an Asgardian appearance, or the impositions he gives to Mjolnir.'

Key word - seems. They didn't list their skillsets to you (you learn a whole lot of things when living as the prince of this realm heavily centred around magic for over a millennium and just because in these short few years, this sliver of their life spans, you didn't see something, that doesn't mean they're not capable of it, whether we are talking about Thor or Loki) and Odin is the king and I suppose with that comes access to Gungnir for example, to which is related a lot of Odin's power. If Odin is a magic user even without his staff, then just like Loki (or Thor, depending on how you view Thor's lightning) he will be specialised in areas other magic users are not as versed in; he had so much more time to study them if that is the case. (Just like Odin isn't capable of Loki's magic because they are different and most likely a result of different studies.)

'I also think I read somewhere that it would be the odinforce that gives gravity to Asgard?'

That sounds like another hc of someone who didn't think it through. I've never run into this piece of info but just think about how Asgard was created to begin with. They must have started with no king and nothing there, with the realm's crystalline core most likely generated by the presence of the Bifrost. You cannot inhabit such place if there's no prior gravity.

'But at the same time I don't understand why he didn't at least teach these spells to Thor who should be the successor to the crown.'

Again, depends on how you interpret magic and Thor's power.

'Furthermore, I don't understand why in the war against Laufey he would have had such difficulty beating him, to the point of losing an eye. But then Thor seems very capable of destroying all of Jotuneim with his hammer and Loki simply kills Lufey by leaving him a spell with the scepter.'

If I remember correctly, it was one frost giant for three trained Einherjar, wasn't it? The strength comparisons. You cannot exactly compare Odin and Thor's physique, especially with the age difference and the difference in circumstances - Odin might have been already ill at the time of the war, their weapons are incomparable because each serves a different purpose and since the Asgard-Jotunheim war, they must have imporved the training + Thor does look like a gym overachiever, doesn't he? When it comes to Loki, they were in Asgard (a completely different climate), he had a major tactical advantage and you are comparing ice (again, in Asgard) to a highly trained mage who was wielding the king's staff.

[meta-library-blog]

Hi Abby, how are you?

I was thinking about something recently.

We have seen that helmets are very important to warriors in Asgardian culture. We have seen them on every eneijar and also Odin, Thor and Loki who have a personalized one. However, we have never seen the 3 warriors and lady sifs with helmets, not even in important moments such as Thor's coronation ceremony or during a battle. Isn't that a little strange?

Technically (following the rules of Asgardian culture) they should have it, but it seems like the writers didn't think of that. Or perhaps it was a deliberate choice to differentiate them from common warriors?

Hey! Hmm that is a good question and, believe it or not, one I have pondered before lol.

I don't know whether or not it was a deliberate writing choice or simply something that was too minor of a detail to consider by the movie's production team, but because these movies were so thought out, I'll always try to come up with an in-universe explanation.

To me, it feels like one of those details that's got both practical and symbolic implications. For one, not wearing a helmet can give the impression of confidence and mastery in combat. Helmets are usually worn for protection, and the Einherjar who wear them are well-trained but not necessarily elite. In contrast, the W3/Sif are a special group. By going without helmets, they might be signalling that they’re skilled enough to take on the enemy without the extra layer of protection. (Or alternatively, it could be seen as inappropriate when their princes don't wear theirs. In Thor's case, I'd say that was purely down to him not liking the feel/look of that helmet and I'll get to Loki in a second.)

As for the coronation, that is debatable because as you've said, everyone wore their personalised (on non-personalised, in the case of the army) helmets, which was symbolic, whereas the warriors didn't. Now, we could explain this by saying Sif could have attended as Thor's intended wife rather than Asgard's war maiden (stood, below Loki who stood below Frigga; similarly to Sif's place close to the head of the banquet table we saw later). As for the Warriors Three, I don't know. It could be a way of signalling that they were below the positions in front of them, as they stood on the same level as Frigga, Loki and Sif.

And to return back to Loki, we know he values strategy and tends to rely more on magic and cutting weapons which might be seen as not intimidating enough by the opponent who has no prior experience with these forms of combat, thus the horned helmet. For him, it’s probably both a symbol of status and a practical choice, because it adds to his intimidating look and supports his more theatrical style (+ it does distinguish him from Thor). As for Thor 1, I don't think he would wear his when his brother didn't (because of the status difference and because he didn't want to seem weaker). TDW is self explanatory.

So in short, maybe the W3/Sif skip the helmets because they want to show they have proven that they’re powerful and skilled enough without them. It’s a subtle but effective way of showing that their place at Thor’s side isn’t just a matter of friendship, but of strength and skill.

I hope that answers your question :]

[meta-library-blog]

Your meta post just now: thanks satan

It was my pleasure, dear :D!But let me continue being satan for a few more minutes…

II never really paid attention to the fact that Thor always touches Loki but Loki never touches Thor until I captured this frame here:

Because next, Loki pushes Thor’s hand away with his arm. You can barely see it and before that I actually just though ok Thor just let his arm drop - but no Loki forces Thor to let go:

And a few moments later he does it again: 

Later during The Avengers it happens again - but this time it’s way more extreme because instead of just pushing Thor away Loki literally stabs him:

And going through the other movies where those idiots interact in some way, the pattern is reoccuring everywhere. Now, I said earlier that Loki never touches Thor but he always pushes him away or physically hurts him - that’s the only contact Loki makes voluntarily. 

That made me wonder: Why? Loki would surely show Thor his affection, wouldn’t he? So let us divide into showing affection verbally and physically: 

Verbally, Loki was the only one of those two who ever openly stated that he loves Thor (”Never doubt that I love you.”, “I love Thor more dearly than any of you.”). Thor never says that he loves his brother. Not even once. What Thor does instead is mentioning Odin when it comes to verbally delivering any sort of affection ([”Did you mourn?”] “We all did; our father-”, “I’ll tell father what you did here today.”). Now, technically it already shows Thor’s love but we all know Loki. That is not how Loki works. Loki needs to hear the actual word to believe it (and even then I’m not sure if he would accept it). And Thor never tells Loki that he loves him. He tells him differently. When he says that they all mourned his loss. When he tells him that it’s not too late (during The Avengers) and that they can still stop all this together, that he’ll help him. When Loki casually mentions the fact that: 

“I’ve seen worlds you’ll never know about. I’ve grown, Odinson - in my exile. I’ve seen the true power of the Tesseract, and I-”

Thor immediately worries: “Who showed you this power? Who controls the would-be king?”

Thor looks so terrified and alarmed: 

Probably because he doesn’t know about what happened to Loki in the abyss and he surely wants to know just as bad as we do, since we all know what Loki looked like right after Thanos found him and during the beginning of The Avengers. He was dehydrated, burned, tired and looked completely exhausted.

Because of course Thor loves him but because he was so very different at the beginning of the first movie that we can only imagine how their childhood had been: “We were raised together, we played together, we fought together; do you remember none of that? - I remember a shadow. Living in the shade of your greatness.”

So verbally speaking, Loki was/is probably used to telling Thor that he loves him but never got a - what he considers proper - reply. Though to be honest I’d get frustrated as well if I continue to declare my love to someone and they never actually say it back. Because I don’t think Thor ever did that (not in the MCU at least, he tells Loki that he loves him in the Comics quite a few times but that’s a whole different story). Thor’s method of proving Loki that he does love him is showing him physical affection and telling him that he really cares and wants to help him. Because that’s what he does in the movies. 

And I think the problem with these two is that they are so different in the way they show affection. Loki uses obvious and blatant words. Thor does it without actually saying it and instead showing it (hence all the touching).

Which brings me to my next point: 

“You give up the Tesseract, you give up this poisonous dream. You come home.” - “I don’t have it.” - ”You listen well, brother.”

Apart from the fact that I really wonder what Thor wanted to say, it’s quite an important conversation actually. It’s the first time Thor shows Loki verbal affection without bringing up anyone else. He just tells him that he wants him to come home. Not Odin, not Frigga - Thor wants it. And Loki does look very confused for a few moments here: 

I think it’s because he’s just not used to hearing Thor say things like this. It’s so frustrating because of course no one can really say what is going on in Loki’s head so why is he so afraid of accepting affection? 

Now, I’m not saying that Thanos controlled Loki in a way where he takes over Loki’s body and mind or used his body as a vessel to walk around and do stuff. But I do think that Thanos (or The Other) did something to make Loki think he doesn’t have a choice - not even with Thor’s help. 

Remember this line that The Other told Loki: “You will have your war, Asgardian. If you fail, if the Tesseract is kept from us, there will be no realm, no barren moon, no crevice where he can not find you. You think you know pain? He will make you long for something as sweet as pain.”

So I do think that Loki did a lot of what he’s doing in The Avengers purely because he was terrified of what Thanos would do if he failed. Because during the first Thor move Loki actually enjoyed Thor’s affection. Each time Thor touched him, Loki even encouraged it (”Now give us a kiss.”) and joked around with Thor. Maybe he’s even afraid of what Thanos might do to Thor as well which is why he’s constantly pushing him away.

BUT I’M WANDERING AWAY FROM THE SUBJECT. Back to the point: 

We see how Thor and Loki grow up - or rather, we see what kind of picture of Frost Giants is delivered to them. They are monsters. That brings me to a point which I think is one of the most crucial things in their relationship. When they are kids and talk about Frost Giants, Thor happily swirls around and declares: 

“When I’m king, I’ll hunt the monsters down and slay them all.”

The directors put that line into that movie for a reason. Because when Thor and Loki are all grown up, Loki’s focus in the first movie is to kill all Frost Giants to prove that he is not one of those monsters. I think this line Thor said when he was a kid stuck to Lok and is still very present in his mind while Thor probably just doesn’t think about it anymore. Because for him, Loki is still his brother and he still loves Loki no matter what he does. 

I don’t really know I could go on and on about their problematic relationship but if I had to make one final statement about all this…

The problem is that Thor and Loki kind of talk past each other all the time with Loki expecting Thor to actually tell him that he loves him and with Thor expecting Loki to just accept help for once. We’ll never see it but I think if they’d just sit down and have a real talk about everything things could be solved. Loki has a lot of issues of course and he should at least just try and trust Thor. Thor also kind of misses the point sometimes probably. 

But everything about that theoretical talk is obviously not possible because Loki died at the end of Thor 2 and then magically appeared again - which still makes me angry. Reading that he was supposed to die for good but the ending was then changed because Marvel was like “omfg no u can’t kill Loki bc then we’ll lose a major income for our money”… idk it just made me really angry. It completely destroyed Loki’s redemption-arc which was barely there to begin with. They already neglect Thor so much and then they take this away from Loki buT THAT’S NOT THE POINT I SHOULD STOP OR ELSE THIS’LL GET EVEN LONGER THAN IT ALREADY IS. 

So yeah if you read all that kudos to you. Anyone who wants to add to that or who wants to talk to me about this is really welcome, I’d love to hear other (or the same?) opinions about this matter c: (but please don’t be rude).

[meta-library-blog]

[meta-library-blog]

I'm of the opinion that MCU!Loki would be far more willing to die to save MCU!Frigga than the other way around (even if she's interpreted as genuinely caring for him), and it has fucked up angst potential.

[meta-library-blog]

In terms of royalty/royal blood, Loki was Jotunheim's future. Even if Laufey would've had another son, Loki was his firstborn and the one residing in the kingdom that had the Casket in its possesion. By taking him from Jotunheim, Odin assured that that future would be under his control, under Asgard's control.

I think his ultimate plan was to let Jotunheim fall apart, to let it deteriorate completely without the Casket's power and with Loki staying in Asgard as the puppet king of Jotunheim. Sending him back would kill him before anything else (his physiology was different, he wouldn't be accepted and therefore killed etc.) and it wouldn't make much sense from a strategical point. We do know, based on Frigga's words (in the pre coronation scene from the script), that the intent was for Loki to be there to provide counsel for Thor would he need it during his rule. Thor would be his king and Loki would be a puppet through which Thor would rule over Jotunheim without it being overly obvious. So that Jotunheim wouldn't gain back its power and Asgard wourld remain the superior realm in the alliance.

The complication there was that Loki was, indeed, the perfect candidate to be an advisor, which made him useless as a puppet king. He possesed intellect far greater than Odin originally anticipated and therefore was not easy to manipulate. He was the one who asked questions (even as a child, he asked about the Jotuns while Thor gave his father what he though he wanted to hear). Loki is a tactician, a skilled diplomat, he's always many steps ahead and doesn't trust right away. Thor, despite everything, obeyed Odin. And when he didn't, Odin knew there was a way of changing that. He knew Loki would see through things which is why he told him about Jotunheim after Loki found out. Which is why he dropped the pretence and became so cold towards him. There was no point in keeping up that facade now that his political tool was no longer of use. He knew the truth. That is why he waited for Loki to let go. A dead son was good for his image as Asgard's grieving king. As the Allfather.

"So I'm no more than another stolen relic, locked up here until you might have use of me?"

I think this referred to his position as the second prince, as the spare heir, and the 'purpose' Odin intended for him. He didn't have much influence compared to his older brother, the crown prince. He was just there to be taken advantage of when useful, just like the other relics in the weapons vault, he was in Asgard so he wouldn't be in Jotunheim; his absence there was Asgard's win. Being part of the royal family separates you naturally. I don't think he was "locked" in the palace as prev commenter theorised, but he didn't have a reason to leave, you have very few actual allies as the prince. You cannot trust everyone because they see your position and the benefit of being in your good favour. That's another part of why his realtionship with Thor was the way it was. He trusted his brother because they shared that experience even if Loki was more aware of the downsides, probably. Thor was more trusting and the epitome of Asgard's ideals so of course he had people around him. He was the future king, of course he had people around him. Additionally, out-of-universe, it can also be taken as subtle foreshadowing of Loki's imprisonment later. He was thrown into the dungeons until Thor needed him.

 "I thought we could unite our kingdoms one day. Bring about an alliance, bring about a permanent peace... through you."

How

How?

HOW????????

What did Odin have in mind when he took Loki? How was he going to forge that alliance? Through marriage? Was he going to tell Laufey that the son he thought to be dead this whole time was actually alive and well and living as the second prince of Asgard? And then he'd offer to marry Loki to someone in Jotunheim so he could take Laufey's throne?

Laufey had already rejected Loki as a newborn, why on earth would he want to have his son back especially when he was basically Odin's puppet? And another thing, would the Jotuns accept Loki as their ruler? He's a runt and grew up in Asgard being raised by Odin, a man they no doubt hate with their entire souls, what made Odin think that his plan would work?

Not to mention the fact that Loki himself would probaly go fucking INSANE once he realized that his purpose in life was to be Odin's puppet in that frozen wasteland while Thor was destined to sit on the golden and glorious throne of Asgard

"But those plans no longer matter"

When

When did they stop mattering?

When did Odin realize that what he had in mind when he adopted Loki would never work out? When did he start seeing Loki as his son instead of the political pawn he was initially?

In WML Loki says that Odin didn't like to send him very often in missions throughout the nine realms, I know the book is it's own universe but maybe that's how things were in the movie timeline too, Odin didn't want to have Loki deeply involved in the politics of the nine realms and decided to just confine him to the palace

"So I'm no more than another stolen relic, locked up here until you might have use of me?"

This could indicate that Loki was in fact trapped inside the palace at least to some level, only allowed to leave and travel through the nine realms when Odin approved it unlike Thor who was probably free to come and go as he pleased, so Loki had only the company of his mother (bc he didn't have friends of his own) while being desperate to have his father's attention and approval, desperate to have a chance to prove that he could be just as competent as Thor (if not more) as a ruler and still being treated as some kind of possession instead of a person

This is tragic but so delicious at the same time, and I know this makes more sense for movie Loki bc series Loki is very different from the original canon, I kinda miss the hungry look he had in Thor 1 tho, that boy who was just standing in corners, lonely and rejected, with so many storms inside himself that barely anyone could notice bc he kept them hidden under a facade of calmness and politeness, that stiff posture of someone always living under pressure, the neutral expression in his face and the ocasional picking of the hands that betrayed how nervous he truly was, being silent and only speaking to people when he was spoken to, the layers and more layers of clothing, covering everything from neck to toes, the submissive and kinda fearful look in his eyes whenever his father spoke to him (until of course the Jotunheim incident), the curly hair severely straightened so he could appear more collected and calm, so many things about him fascinate me, I could talk about it for hours...

How I wish we could go back to the 2011-2013 Loki era omg there's so much potential and things to explore there, take me back to those simpler days

[meta-library-blog]

It's just

It's when Loki gives Thor a little knee bump

It's when Thor is brimming with utter frustration at the coronation being indefinitely cancelled (and probably reeling with some dejection over clearly not being good enough in his father's eyes... and in the eyes of the realms re: Jotunheim) and he warns Loki "It is unwise to be in my presence brother" and Loki responds (at least, in the full scene) with "Who said I was wise?"

It's the knee tap.. it's the shoulder brushing...The subtle notes of contact... For Thor who is such a physically affectionate being, from Loki who is altogether not so physically inclined... It's the silent reciprocation by Thor in the way he opens up to Loki in his own way ("This was to be my day of triumph").

It's the huddling close with your sibling because they're upset and you love them so you scoot a little closer to share in the feeling; two siblings in solidarity.

It's the unspoken intimacy between the two brothers that speaks such volumes about who they were and what they were to each other. How Thor may not turn his head but he is painfully obviously looking to Loki for some solace, whether he asks outright or not...

It's how Loki cares enough (and i'd hope feels bad enough lmao) about the situation to sit with Thor and engage in it, even if he's wholly intending to try to steer Thor towards gaining some much-needed restraint. It's how that doesn't quite go the way Loki expects it to...

But Thor is so earnest and sincere about Loki coming along. And he gets genuinely confused (mayhaps even concerned) when Loki briefly questions whether he would even be coming along... bcloki'sjustalittledumbandinsecure and by that I mean he is a lot.

When in Thor's eyes: of course he is coming??? Why would Loki not be coming? Why wouldn't Thor want him to be alongside him for the ride? Of course Thor wants him there; in his mind it's never a question of 'if'. Thor wants and expects him to be there; they're two peas in a pod. Especially by way of adventure.

Anyone who dares say on either side that these two didn't have a close and mutually beloved bond evidently didn't watch the films correctly or in a LONG time in the very least, because this sibling energy STILL holds true even without the full scene intact. (I just feel the need to share the full scene because that is how it was written, shot, and acted out. It's not the characters' faults the editors sliced and diced out all the nuance.)

[meta-library-blog]

Body language - another thing the series failed at

To preface this, I do not consider the series canon (as with anything released post TDW due to it being extremely ooc and contradictory to the established canon) but I think this is something many series fans don't realise even though it's glaringly obvious. I did not include comparison photos because I think I'm speaking for many og Loki fans when I say we have seen far too much of this joke of an attempt to depict our favourite character and we don't need more of that.

I am not going to list every single instance I've got in mind because there are far too many and tumblr has its limits but these are details I consider important.

Loki does not move a whole lot, but that doesn't mean he's not aware of his surroundings, quite the opposite in fact. You have to keep in mind that, unlike Thor who has the opposite personality (is very expressive) and is the crown prince, Loki is the tactician; he was raised with the goal of being there for Thor to provide counsel would it be needed. He's quiet, subtle and observant. He has to be. X

(Notice how he goes from not looking at a fixed point while listening to Odin to looking at Thor when he speaks)

I also noticed Loki is very efficient in how he moves, which is probably the most apparent in TA due to what he's gone through up to that point and the lasting effects of that. His movements are very controlled and precise. He does not waste his energy on what's not required by the situation. He looks directly at the people giving him infomation, he does not flinch when Clint fires and his movement oscillates between being either very slow or faster than that of the people around him. The scene of his arrival to Midgard is a great example of that. X

Then there's his interaction with the Other. This scene shows us that even though he is directly threatened, with the Other in his personal space, he remains still. Yes, he flinches, because that kind of blinking is his giveaway of being nervous (you can also see this during his sentencing in TDW) but he doesn't move.

Speaking of nervous gestures, I can't leave out the picking at his hand that he shares with Frigga but I'm sure we all know that one.

Kurse/Loki scene

Loki's stillness and stealth is accompanied by his microexpressions in which lies a lot of his expression. You can find these in pretty much every one of his scenes in the trilogy. He is not overt with how he presents and it's easy to overlook some of these cues because of how subtle and short they can be which is precisely who he is. He is not obvious and loud like Thor, you have to really pay attention to understand him which adds to the complexity of his character.

The series missed this completely. I feel like they wrote their character with zero understanding of who he is and similarly to what you see in children's shows so the viewers would understand and not strain their brains thinking about what they're watching. The person they wrote is not and will never be Loki.

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pt. 4

◆"if you did, you'd be the fool I always took you for. trust my rage."

◆The plan in Svartalfheim

◆Loki didn't betray Thor

◆Svartalfheim

◆Loki's combat style

◆the Dark Elves /  x

◆Loki before he got impaled

◆Loki and Kurse about seeing him in Hel

◆The issue of Loki's body in TDW

◆Loki never faked his death /  x /  x

◆TDW ending scene /  x  /  x  /  x

◆Asgard's attitude towards their physically & mentally disabled & their mentally ill population

◆Asgard's population

◆Asgard's atmosphere

◆The rainbow bridge's length

◆The palace

◆food of Asgard

◆Asgardian helmets

◆Asgard/Jotunheim /  x

◆of Asgard/of Jotunheim

◆deleted Jotunheim scenes at the beginning of T1

◆Yggdrasil

◆Thor/The Avengers/TDW parallels

◆Thor's costume design

◆Loki's costume design /  x / x

◆Loki's sleeve

◆Loki's dagger

◆pet peeves

◆Loki's "fans" hating him

◆about Thor and the fandom

◆the hero/villain coding

◆the MCU's narrative vs Tom Hiddleston's portrayal of Loki

◆the Loki fandom and the approach to attraction

◆Escaping from Asgard

◆Loki's body language

◆after Thor's coronation

◆What was Loki's future supposed to be like originally?

◆the vault scene

◆Why don't the W3/Sif wear their helmets?

◆Loki's Aesir form / power comparisons between T, L and O

◆Jotunheim/Asgard peace treaty

----more in pt. 2

◆Loki & Frigga

----more in pt. 3

◆Ways in which Thor and Loki show affection

A masterpost of OG trilogy related metas/thoughts:

pt. 1

◆Loki's perspective (Thor 1 master post)

-Part 1: Childhood 

-Part 2: Before Coronation

-Part 3: Coronation and In The Vault

-Part 4: We’re Going To Jotunheim

-Part 5: The Bifrost

-Part 6: Jotunheim Negotiations

-Part 7: Jotunheim Fight

-Part 8: Thor’s Banishment

-Part 9: The Aftermath

-Part 10: Am I Cursed?

-Part 11: The Odinsleep and Loki’s Ascension

-Part 12: On the Throne

-Part 13: Visiting Midgard

-Part 14: Back to Jotunheim

-Part 15: Heimdall Confrontation

-Part 16: Buying Time

-Part 17: The Destroyer

-Part 18: The Master Plan

-Part 19: The Final Battle

-Part 20: After the End

[meta-library-blog]

Thor: My brother Loki is adopted. He comes from another realm called Jotunheim.

Avengers: So how does the adoption process work on Asgard? Even here it takes years to complete all the background checks and paperwork. I imagine there it probably takes literal centuries. 

Thor: … There was no paperwork. My father found him while invading his native realm and since he was unattended, possibly because he had been abandoned to die or possibly because of the invading army, my father took him in the hopes he would prove useful.

Avengers: …. That’s not adoption. 

[meta-library-blog]

I cannot stop thinking about how the “worst version of toxic masculinity” Thor we first meet in thor1 is the Thor who Odin apparently deemed worthy of succeeding his throne

Like Thor’s introductory personality is not something he formed in a vacuum. Thor’s entire fucking life leading up to the point of his coronation has been a blind hunt for “worthiness”. Like, he has never known for sure what “worthy” means because Odin never explains what it means. All Thor knows is that he is meant to attain it, and after that he will have his father’s love and approval and respect.

So this bullshit personality, apparently, was what Thor figured “worthy” looked like to Odin: more escalating aggression, more bullheaded decisiveness, more problem solving through violence. He makes his entire life into a show of Toxic Masculinity, The Complete Package ™, he builds on this for years – and he wins the game.

This fucking works. Because Odin apparently looks at this fucking parody of a man and is finally satisfied. This brainless oaf of a Thor is worthy. This fucking joke of a Thor can have his crown.

But the thing is, I’m like fucking convinced, I am FUCKIN CONVINCED that this is a persona. This is a persona who isn’t Thor, and Thor knows this isn’t Thor. Thor is wearing this performance like a badly fitted suit and he is so uncomfortable;he is so fucking terrified that somebody is gonna look too close at it and figure him out.

Like the fucking insult that almost starts a war after 1000 years of peace bc Thor can’t let it go? Somebody called him “princess”.

Look at me and tell me that that’s the response of someone who is healthy and secure in their performance of masculinity. Fucking look me in the fucking eyes and tell me that this is not the response of someone who’s desperately overcompensating, where every single incursion has to be met with twice the retribution or else the illusion might break.

And the thing is, Loki also knows that this isn’t Thor.

Keep reading

[meta-library-blog]

Thor is all about “mine”, possession. Afraid of Loki’s independent nature, his tendency of sorting things out by himself, Thor has to make sure his brother remembers who he belongs to: neck grabbing, handling him, chains with his name all over it, marking him, showing him around like his most precious possession, brother, my brother, saying his name, just, “mine”.

Loki is about “need me”. Thor has everything, he’s got thunder in his hands, lightning in his eyes, friends, special weapons that only he can lift, he’s got the love of everyone before they even meet him. Loki spent his life feeling replaceable, so he must feel needed: say you need me, mourn me, cry for me, say you’re nothing without me, say that losing me would shatter you. Need me.

[meta-library-blog]

[meta-library-blog]

Oh Frigga No!

She'd been handling it fairly well up to this point (admittedly all she had to beat in the Parental Helpfulness Olympics was 'fainting at the worst possible moment,' but still). She'd said Odin lied so their son wouldn't feel different, and that they are his family. So far so not-just-fainting!

But then she tries to reassure him on the topic of Thor with this little zinger and oh well done, Frigga, now he's going to wonder forever...

I like that Frigga's mistake is an inadvertant truth at the wrong time, because what annoys me in this scene is the 'why did he lie?' and her answer which also completely sidesteps the issue of 'why did she lie?' Probably with good intentions, and even the son she lied to his entire life doesn't think to hold her responsible for that, perhaps because everyone trusts Frigga and always assumes the best of her. The opposite of how weirdly only half the characters on Asgard the audience who knows who the baddy of this movie is going to be her people view her little lied-to son.

Frigga's a liar but she knows how not to look like one and apparently she is great at it. Maybe she was lying about why Odin (and herself) lied to Loki, clever enough to conceal it if there really was an ulterior motive there. And then she immediately gives the game away, or - worse! - maybe she doesn't give anything away but manages to give the impression that she has when she tells the truth about her other son (who, we should not forget, has also been constantly lied to about all of this).

Loki moves away because it seems like it must be the truth, because he trusts her. Dad must have been lying because Mum never would. Except she did, without any loss of reputation, often and apparently well, but not this one time when complete concealment of what she knew might actually have been the wisest option.

Oh well, at least her little boy is at last about to graduate from Frigga's School of Lying Like a Liar Who Lies and go out into the big wide world! I'm sure that will go well for everyone!

[meta-library-blog]

I have a question regarding Asgard prisons. (English is not my first language)

perhaps prisoners are prevented from harming themselves in some way? Is it due to some magical property of the cell or due to the guards monitoring it?

because, unlike the way cells work in our world (prisoners can leave their cells and communicate with other prisoners), these cells seem to work in a way that never allows prisoners to leave. not even dimming the lights for a few moments. and it seems logical to think that such a condition, if prolonged for a long time, would lead anyone to go mad. 

so it wouldn't surprise me if someone decided to escape from that condition by attempting to commit suicide. and this would especially apply to those sentenced to life imprisonment.

for example, loki is already suicidal. and after the many traumatic experiences he has been through, it seems logical to assume that he would just like to get it over with. just as he implied in the dialogue with Odin. but apparently, even he who has this desire and has already tried to do it in the past, is not trying to do it again now. After all, if someone were to commit suicide, he would be running away from serving his sentence. which in the case of life imprisonment is even a better prospect.

so it would make sense to think that Loki isn't performing such an act (but instead he finds himself forced to use illusions to pass the time and keep himself from going mad) because he is unable to do so for some reason. what do you think?

ps. I have another important and fundamental question. but how do they go to the bathroom? the cells are transparent, they have no privacy spaces. furthermore they don't even have toilets or buckets in which they can do their business -.-

The dungeons are the highest security prison of Asgard (because I don't doubt there are other prison establishments intended for civilians with lesser penalties as well as a military prison which is separate). I think the dungeons are designed for outworlders, particularly dangerous individuals such as mages and people with a life sentence. They are located deep under the palace and were the second structure built by king Buri. The cells within the dungeons were upgraded later, supposedly during Bor or Odin's reign.

'perhaps prisoners are prevented from harming themselves in some way?'

Oh yes, definitely. If you look at the cells, they are completely empty (yes, Loki's was an exception, obviously), white and lit by bright lights from above. This is very much intentional.

no furnishing -> no objects to harm yourself with. (This is why I say it was incredibly risky to give Loki a glass carefe as well as a mirror...combine that with illusion use.)

the lights -> From what we've seen, the lights were constantly on. We didn't get to see the dungeons at night but with the little regard of the prisoners' wellbeing, I think it's safe to assume they priorise security and thus keep them on to grant continuous access for the guards to see the cells' interiors. Of course, that makes is nearly impossible for the prisoners to discern the night from the day, unless they choose to mentally keep track of the guards' daily schedule which must be challenging in a long-term sense.

personal possessions -> Keeping in mind Loki was an exception and the prisoners we saw were the ones arrested on Vanaheim (and so probably overwhelmed the spaces available + Odin's guards are not the most skilled bunch), I'd say that generally, personal posessions would be taken upon the prisoner's arrival to the dungeons and stored/repurposed. Again, meaning nothing to harm yourself with or to use as an aid of escape. On a similar note, I think that the most common number of prisoners is one ..or more (if they don't pose a threat to themselves or each other).

no visits -> As we saw, all visit were strictly forbidden with the exception of the king or his direct or indirect permission to let somebody else visit. But even then, I take it that any physical contact is strictly prohibitted.

the energy barriers -> My personal headcanon is that the patterns we see make up these barriers are a binding spell. Most of the cells are equipped with one barrier, with the exception of the corner cells which have two, supposedly for increased supervision by the Einherjar stationed by the entrance gate.

'for example, loki is already suicidal. and after the many traumatic experiences he has been through, it seems logical to assume that he would just like to get it over with. just as he implied in the dialogue with Odin. but apparently, even he who has this desire and has already tried to do it in the past, is not trying to do it again now.'

I simply think Loki was too apathetic to act on anything (yet). I know that to us, a year and a half seems long but he was still coming out of an incredibly stressful course of events and the survival mode that came with that. He was depressed and probably too aware that would he try to take his life, his plans would most likely fail. His illusions would either flicker or dispel before he died and the guards would step in. The barriers themselves are not strong enough to kill (they can't be, that would be too easy) and would alert the Einherjar as well. In all of his depression, he is a strategist, if not under dire pressure, he waits to see how things unravel. Again, a year and a half seems longer to us than to the Aesir with the context of their longevity.

(but instead he finds himself forced to use illusions to pass the time and keep himself from going mad)

He is highly intelligent, the cells are designed to inflict mental torture on their own (mostly sensory deprivarion) so imagine that coupled with a mind like his. He had to create some stimuli to keep himself occupied because what else was there to do. They took everything from him and his magic was the one thing they couldn't touch. Of course he used it to hold on to the last bits of sanity he had left.

'ps. I have another important and fundamental question. but how do they go to the bathroom? the cells are transparent, they have no privacy spaces. furthermore they don't even have toilets or buckets in which they can do their business -.-'

Not a topic I gave too much thought to but @helshades had written a post covering this. I wonder how they distributed the meals there, I suppose there must be a rule on how many you can skip before they give you a tube or something. Similar to our wards.