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oliver confirming buddie roommates and that he hooked up with tommy out of misplaced feelings

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Oliver Stark, I see you.

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genuinely diabolical how differently these scenes are lit.... the way they sapped all of the warmth out of the set when they're fighting, versus the warm glow that infuses the space when the space is finally full of their family again... it's so great. and so intentional! both scenes are set at night, as far as i can tell, and yet the second one is lit entirely differently. brilliant

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also for the record i don't think anyone else realizes how entwined buck and eddie are with each other. like i think they know to an extent, because they are famously buckneddie about things ("maddie invites buck, buck invites eddie" etc etc) but i don't think that even maddie has a real sense of how much they are literally like. ACTUALLY parenting a child together. like for real and not as a "oh chris and buck are really close because buck is around a lot in a fun uncle way." and the amount of time they spent on facetime together, like i know some of it happened at work so the others are aware of it in a playful eye roll "hiiii eddie in buck's phone" kind of way. but not to the extent that they basically lived on the phone together for however long eddie was gone. and that buck is part of eddie's family enough that he is like. aware of the details of eddie's tia's health complications and is comfortable enough with her to have a one on one conversation with her about grief and loss and change. and let her cook in his kitchen and do his dishes in a way you would not normally ever do with a regular friend's parent or family member. and I think that if anyone else really realized all of this they would be like guys. you are..... literally in a relationship. like I think everyone especially maddie would have a lot less patience with them for not figuring out their feelings for each other yet. if she knew.

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Let's get some things very straight (LOL) about that ICONIC Buddie argument last night.

Eddie WAS NOT the aggressor in this altercation. In fact, Buck was in a mood before Eddie even entered the kitchen. Eddie asked why Buck had gone grocery shopping when he had previously promised to do so himself. He was asking a question. Buck's whole demeanor suggested he was clearly bothered: "I was out. It's fine." Obviously a chippy response to which Eddie replied "It doesn't feel like it's fine." Because he knows Buck. And he obviously wasn't fine. Granted, Buck had reason to be upset: he was the last person to find out that Eddie had been offered the job in El Paso. Under normal circumstances, Buck would have been the first person to know.

However, these are obviously not normal circumstances. Bobby is dead. Eddie explains why he didn't tell Buck. His reasoning isn't because he believes Buck is selfish. Yes, Eddie is being petty here. It was kinda a shitty thing to say (although that might have been THE LINE of the year, so I am so glad that he said it), to which he later admits. However, his reasoning is a little deeper than that, and easy to discern if you listen to what he says: "You've been spiralling. Since the funeral. And no one knows how to talk to you about it."

This harkens back to Eddie's conversation with Hen and Karen earlier in the episode. Buck is presenting a façade that he is okay by trying to take care of everybody else, as Bobby requested of him. Asking weird ass grief questions. But the people who love him. The person who loves him, wants him to drop the act and actually process his own grief.

Add all of that, to the fact that Eddie is trying to process his own grief and one would understand Eddie's reaction to Buck stating (in an equally petty manner, I might add) "Sorry I'm sad that Bobby is dead." NO SHIT SHERLOCK! Note that in this instance, by saying that, Buck is explicitly thinking about his own feelings and not considering the feelings of his family who are also grieving. That is definitionally selfish. Eddie, rightly responds "You're not the only one that lost him! We all lost him." Because he is trying to let Buck know that the way to help is not through stupid psych evaluations; it is by talking about how each other is feeling.

Buck: "Yeah, I know."

Eddie: "Really? Because you never asked what it was like."

Eddie then proceeds to explain his emotions about Bobby's death.

And let's make it even more clear: Eddie WAS NEVER going to hit Buck. He would never hit Buck. He grabs his shoulder and points his little finger in his face. It's a call back to their grocery store altercation.

Unlike Buck, who puts up a façade as a way to avoid processing grief, Eddie's grief manifests as anger. That was the whole point of his street fighting plot line. He used fighting as a way to blow off steam. The problem with the street fighting wasn't that he was fighting: it was that he was doing so in an illegal underground ring. That story was never meant to characterize Eddie as a violent person. Because Eddie is not a violent person. He uses his passion for MMA as an outlet. Not everybody who knows MMA is a violent person. The opposite is actually true. Very few MMA fighters are violent people. It's an art. Just like dancing or figure skating.

Buck then apologizes to Eddie, acknowledging his TEMPORARY moment of selfishness. Eddie then expresses that he has yet to forgive himself for not being there.

"If I was there, could I have made a difference."

Buck misinterprets this statement as Eddie believing that Buck didn't do everything he could to save Bobby's life.

That's not what Eddie is saying at all. What he does say in response is

"I don't know Buck. I wasn't there."

Eddie hates that he wasn't there to save Bobby's life. Which is a large, and understandable, part of his grief.

The whole theme of this conversation is that these two are not communicating. Had they done so, they would not be upset at each other. Obviously, it is hard to effectively communicate during times of grief. So in reality, both Buck and Eddie are at fault here. Both have valid motivations behind their words and actions here. This is what grief does. It makes you act irrationally or out of character.

Yet, their miscommunication pre-existed Bobby's death: It started when Eddie decided to leave for El Paso. And the reason they were not communicating then is because neither of them understand or want to admit their feelings regarding the move. These feelings are that of love, which neither party is willing to admit yet. Yet.

Next week might be the first opportunity for either of them to voice those feelings.

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also btw oliver confirming that he's always played buck as bi – which we like. knew. but having it confirmed. means that he has always been playing buck as attracted to eddie. because can we be honest; there is not another consistent male counterpart around for him to have been playing that off of. historically speaking. which also gives added context to him saying in S7 that he was "planning to do it anyway" re bi buck

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I feel like not enough people talk about Buffy 5x17, Forever.

Everyone knows about The Body, and for good reason. It deserves its fame. But as Buffy says in the next episode, the scariest thing about Joyce dying is that she doesn’t know what comes next.

When I started watching this show, I knew Joyce would die in season 5 in an episode called The Body, so I was more or less prepared. But I wasn’t prepared for what came after.

Something like Hush is widely considered to be one of the show’s scariest, but it did not compare to the shots of Joyce’s feet walking towards the house and the knock at the door. In Hush, I knew that it would end up all right; no main characters would die and they would get their voices back. But zombie Joyce? I had no idea what was coming next. You don’t fear a character dying when one already has.

Would she be a zombie? A demon? Would she look like a vampire? Or, maybe the scariest possibility, would like she look like she had before?

Upon rewatch this moment doesn’t stay as terrifying as other parts of the show, because it is so based on the audience (along with Dawn and Buffy) having no idea who or what is coming. My second time through the show I didn’t have that feeling in the pit of my stomach because I knew I wouldn’t ever have to find out.

But my first watch? Incomparable.

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it must be said that “The Body” is not only one of the best episodes of BTVS but one of the best episodes in television, full stop.

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Spike must be such a funny character to people who only watched Angel and not Buffy, because in s1e3 he's calling her "slutty the vampire slayer" then he shows back up in s5 like "you don't understand she's my one true love"

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Ok i haven’t watched btvs in years but i miss spuffy do you have an episode list for all spuffy interactions

dilfjdjfdslkjfdskljfljkdsflkjls .kjfjkdsjklflkjdsflj insane question hi anon . i mean they interact for most of the show but im prepared to go insane here hi .

also if u want simply a compilation of every single spuffy moment ever , youtube user claireice has you covered . would also recommend @smellingwormholes my beloved's spuffy videos . gold standard of content

anyway here are all their episodes n a top moment of mine from each hi . you enabled me for this. we're in a fight. pls know what u've done to me.

2x03 "school hard" 'do we really need weapons for this' INTRICATE RITUALS

2x06 "halloween" -- it's spike being really normal about her 'baby likes to play' . like okay slut <3

2x07 "lie to me" -- my personal calculations show that based on the 1998 flashback in fool for love this is actually when he starts to fall in love with her . my brainworms are very powerful

2x10 "what's my line part 2" -- MUTUAL

2x13 "surprise" - the act of them standing with their respective lovers which will later be turned on its head in the finale . UMM. the REVERSALS.

2x14 "innocence" /made me sick to my stomach seeing you be the slayers lapdog/ lmao that did not age well

2x17 "passion" um. technically in the same room.

2x22 "becoming part 2" TEEHEEEEEE

3x08 "lovers walk" OR SPIKE FOR SOME REASON . pin HIM by the throat onto the kitchen counter

4x03 "harsh light of day" SORT OF A DOUBLE DATE. spuffy is a romcom this episode proves it. theyre serving when harry met sally

4x07 "the initiative" I KNOW A LOT OF GUYS WHO'D LIKE TO GET THEIR HANDS ON HER. @yoursummerfrost voice dru ducks what if the slayer got a giant taser. wouldnt that be fucked up

4x08 "pangs" YOU MADE A BEAR. theyre best friends

4x09 "something blue" . THE BLOOD OF THE INNOCENT .

4x11 "doomed" spike sitting on the armchair behind buffy this counts . spike standing too close to her in the high school . he said proximity he said 14 year old with a crush who doesnt know how to make a move so they r just . Staring n Hovering.

4x12 "a new man" DONT KNOW WHY SHE DIDNT COME . SAY GOODBYE. SHED A FEW TEARS.

4x13 "the i in team" he stands up and stares when she enters the room. victorianism jumping out

4x14 "goodbye iowa" no really buffy . why Is he here.

4x16 "who are you?" spike said hahahaha UNLESS . spike said i hate you that said if u wanted to fuck i am There in One Second No Jokes Please . Please..

4x17 "superstar" . hair touch. ummmm.

4x18 "where the wild things are" . he gets so close 2 saving her life . also spuffy fanfic trope where spuffy are the ones who get the sex ghosts makes this a spuffy episode by proxy .

4x19 "new moon rising" spike said all season HEY NOBODY SEND ME BACK TO THE INITIATIVE CAVES I SWEAR 2 GOD. adam said hey can u go back in with buffy. spike said TEHEEEE . spike said ok i will stand so close to her i will make sure of it. see 14 year old with a crush energy from above.

4x10: "the yoko factor" he spends the whole episode talking about her. inch resting.

4x21 "primeval" tiny interaction but it counts . they Look At Each Other Regard Each Other In The Little Initiative Control Room.

4x22 "restless" xander's dream counts .

5x02 "real me" I WAS TELLING YOU THE TRUTH I KNOW

5x03: "the replacement" . what does he think he's doing with that mannequin before the love reveal. WHAT.

5x04 "out of my mind" IF THAT'S WHAT I WANTED THEN I'D BE DATING SPIKE

5x05 "no place like home" . William.

5x06 "family" . james marsters face in training room teehee.

5x07 "fool for love" spicy Buffalo Wings I'm Feeling Peckish. <3333 ;)))) ;0000

5x08 "shadow" IVE KNOWN SINCE LAST NIGHT

5x09 "listening to fear" @summers-pratt voice . close up of hands confirms movie will turn gay.

5x10 "into the woods" they walk together i cant stress it enough. team power.

5x11 "triangle" HELLO BUFFY

5x12 "checkpoint" BE FUNNY IF THEY DID

5x13 "blood ties" buffy said ummmmm would you mind if i just..... confided in you and treated you as a coparent and confidant would you just

5x14 "crush" what else does buffy say about me you sleep during the day is this a date all that's left is you and a dead shell . moment where they look @ drusilla together in the cave. i think Thoughts About It

5x15 "i was made to love you" . hot tight little body pink lighting tongue out

5x17 "forever" . this counts. SHE WAS DECENT. spike loves his mother in law

5x18 "intervention". ON THE MOUTH

5x19 "tough love" me a few months ago voice . so wyd. scenario.

5x20 "spiral" SWORD CATCH. romance high romance.

5x21 "the weight of the world" little shake shake .

5x22 "the gift" oh. ohhhhh, i tried to pick a moment and then i had to lie down

6x01 "bargaining, part i" SHE'LL NEVER BE EXACTLY

6x02 "bargaining, part ii" this also counts.

6x03 "after life" MARRIAGE. they get married here. spuffy marriage plot.

6x04 "flooded" WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT FINANCES

6x05 "life serial" . date :)

6x06 "all the way" buffy shows up to ask him on a date :)

6x07 "once more with feeling" UMMMMMM

6x08 "tabula rasa" aYOU WERE THE ONE I LOOOVED . stay away from randy

6x09 "smashed" oh idk i dont think they interact in this one :)

6x10 "wrecked" stay im stuck here sun's out

6x11 "gone" . buffy's a great mum :)

6x12 "doublemeat palace" . i can get money

6x13 "dead things" IF YOU WANT I COULD--

6x14 "older and far away" when she escorts him out of the room :)) he's her date :)

6x15 "as you were" tell me you LOVE ME TELL ME YOU WANT ME. you know what i am youve always known

6x16 "hells bells". this dress is radioactive.

6x17 "normal again" PUT SOME ICE ON THE BACK OF HER NECK. SHE LIKES THAT

6x18 "entropy" . didnt take long did it.

6x19 "seeing red" . in all seriousness we've said everything that needs to be said here elsewhere and i think this episode should never have been made as it was. that said looking at its place in the season n its function in the larger soul arc , i think the conversation leading up to That Scene and also the 'things change if you make em' bit have a lot of Content that is worth chewing over

6x20 "villains" clem crypt moment

6x22 "grave" MAKE ME WHAT I WAS SO BUFFY CAN GET WHAT SHE DESERVES

7x01 "lessons" . face touch.

7x02 "beneath you" WHY DOES A MAN DO WHAT HE MUSNT FOR HER TO BE HERS

7x03 "same time same place". .... you went away youve been gone since....

7x04 "help" STAY HERE AND HELP ME BE QUIET. I THINK IT'S WORSE WHEN IM HERE.

7x05 "selfless" basement scene i will weep

7x06 "him" BAZOOKA WRESTLING

7x07 "conversations with dead people" 'he did love me. i didnt wanna be loved.' UM

7x08 "sleeper" 'i know' UM.

7x09 "never leave me" . I BELIEVE IN YOU SPIKE

7x10 "bring on the night" ummm i just think it's not a COINCIDENCE that when buffy is at her lowest and most ragged and desperate it's when her shadowself confidante boytoy is kidnapped n underground .

7x11 "showtime" . the eye contact . dont talk to me.

7x12 "potential" MOM AND DAD SAID IT'S TIME FOR SLAYER SCHOOL

7x13 "the killer in me" I KNEW IT. GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY.

7x14 "first date" hallway.

7x15 "get it done" . i want the spike that's dangerou.s the spike that tried to kill me when we met.

7x16 "storyteller". when they come into the room together :) "someone has to agree with me. Spike????"

7x17 "lies my parents told me" that's her SPOUSE.

7x18 "dirty girls" . jealous buffy said this is My Vampire.

7x19 "empty places" they said ummmm if u separate me from my lover i will riot.

7x20 "touched" . IVE SEEN YOUR KINDNESS AND YOUR STRENGHT IVE SEEN THE BEST AND THE WORST OF YOU.

7x21 "end of days" . I JUST TOLD YOU IT DID.

7x22 "chosen" hey fellas what if you spent what you assumed to be your last three nights on earth with your soulmate . wht if 'i love you'. what if total shadow self reconcilation. what if fire hands. ummm. FELLAS.

anon i hope youre happy now that youve killed me <3

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im sure this has been pointed out many times before but in 5x10 when riley asks buffy to hit him bc he needs that to be the manifestation of her “passion” (🙄) for him bc he believes her to be kind of indifferent & she refuses to do so. you know who she doesn’t mind hitting all of the time? yeah yeah you guessed it!!—spike!!

and yes obviously buffy would have her qualms about hitting another human being i know butttt buffy feels comfortable taking her frustrations out on spike like when he’s creeping outside of her house after her argument with dawn and she’s like “don’t take this the wrong way” and immediately punches him. that’s a very visceral way of communicating that feeling & that raw physical way of expressing emotions is completely lacking in the buffy-riley dynamic.

buffy is also able to cry in front of spike before she even realizes she has feelings for him, but she can’t do so in front of riley—her supposed boyfriend! she’s never really able to let her guard down with riley in the way that she does with spike bc there is not much of an emotional connection there

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I am increasingly grateful that Spike was so divisive in the writers' room. Both Angel and Riley were supposed to be heroes, but you have them doing things like:

Experiencing a moment of true happiness when nutting in a teenager, but not when cuddling with his own child

Cheating on Buffy and saying it's her fault

Like, knowing what we know about Whedon and the sort of toxic environment he nurtured, it's really no wonder that the dudes on staff thought these guys were sympathetic and couldn't understand why Spike was so popular when he was, you know, not doing stuff like that. Also his actual shitty behavior was called out as actually shitty by other characters and the narrative, whereas Angel and Riley (and Xander and others, lbr) were constantly devil's advocated by the same narrative, if not let off the hook entirely.

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Xander's assertion that Riley is a Once In A Lifetime™ kinda guy is objectively laughable. Not only because Riley is literally a conformist who allows his opinions to be dictated to him (first by the Initiative, then by Buffy and later the army), but because Buffy's two other love interests are literally the Once In A Lifetime™ variety.

Angel was (at the time) the only vampire in recorded history with a soul.

Spike was the only vampire in recorded history who chose to get a soul.

And you're telling me that the special one is some mysoginistic, chauvanistic conformist? Please, Xander, project harder. Your vicariousness is showing.

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BUFFY CAST Q&A | Comic-Con North East 2023 (x)

BONUS:

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Spike is the spark that brings Buffy’s fire (her ability to love) back

(stone - a notoriously non flammable material)

Buffy’s love is spoken about in relation to fire but even brighter and more intense

she sings of wanting the fire (her ability to love and feel as deeply as she once did) back - where once was a flame so bright it burned her - now there is nothing but black & cold

spike’s love for Buffy is also equated to fire showing how he matches her intensity with which she loves (love the use of the lighting in this shot he literally looks like he’s sitting back to back with his shadow as he wrestles for a moment of just letting Buffy die before ultimately going to help her) also this line is showing how much loving Buffy has cost him the burdens he’s carried, the pain and sacrifices he’s made and endured - “I have come to redefine the terms pain and suffering since falling in love with you” loving Buffy for Spike is painful AND HE STILL LOVES HER AND KEEPS TRYING TO DO AND BE BETTER FOR HER LITERALLY NO MATTER WHAT 😭🤚🏻

but this line from Giles foreshadows the need for Spike to get his soul (the spark) back in order for Buffy to get her fire back - soulless spike’s love is not enough because of the guilt and shame she feels loving a soulless demon

(thank you @spuffylatino for this spike screen grab)

e voila! Their joint hands burst into flames in the moment Buffy can finally say the words “I love you” which she hasn’t told a romantic partner that since Angel - representing Buffy getting her fire back and that she has found someone who not only won’t pull away from the intensity of her love but can match it

hands ablaze and neither pulls away until forced to by the collapsing hellmouth and Buffy gasps in relief because she did it, she got the fire back and now she can tell him with no fear or shame that she loves him before it’s too late

and after she says it she has sort of this “I know that’s pretty obvious given our joint hands are currently ablaze as our twin flame souls intertwine but you deserve to hear it and I wanted to and now CAN say it” look on her face like she’s really fucking proud of him but also herself that this is how far they’ve come both as individuals and a couple

When I say Spike is the best romantic partner for Buffy it’s not because it’s perfect - it’s because after she dates angel and riley she’s an emotionally devastated, vulnerable, heartbroken, abandoned YET AGAIN mess who can barely hold it together and gets more and more closed off each time. But THIS is the impact Spike has on her. Despite all they go through he is a catalyst for the return of her strength, confidence, healing, and emotional vulnerability. I love the overall impact he has on her as well as her on him!! They change each other for the better!! Through their love!!!! THAT’S AMAZING!!

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okay so what I think is SO interesting and honestly incredible about the writing and cinematography of the kitchen scene is the fact that it manages to turn buck and eddie's entire relationship on its head in both a meta sense and a story sense in the space of just a few minutes. because yes they have had other partners off and on until recently, but "husband" is the space that buck and eddie usually inhabit for each other. and I mean this in an in universe way but also in a meta way, like they are each other's confidantes and support system, yes, but they are also 100% written as the fourth married couple on the show and always have been even in the past when they had other partners. they have always been given equal weight as the other main couples on the show.

so in a meta sense, yes they've always been written with the tropes of a couple for storyline purposes etc because they're usually paired off together. but this is THE first time that they have ever been so explicitly written as spouses, and it's done in conflict. they are in their shared home with their shared grocery shopping and having a fight that has the energy of a married couple teetering on the brink of divorce. the scene feels like something out of Marriage Story dropped into the middle of an episode of network procedural television. it is lit and shot in a way that has only been used twice before on this show, both times for previous breakups that buck and eddie have separately had in that same set. and it is SO raw and intense and close, like you can feel them clinging to each other and pushing each other away at the same time.

and then also like. in a story sense it is twisting this idea as well because they're fighting about a lot of different things (grief, loss, miscommunication, desire, shared anger, longing) but the thing that is sparking the fight in the moment or at least tipping it over the edge is the fact that buck is trying so hard to be what everyone needs at once. he's trying to be there for EVERYONE and trying so hard not to leave anyone out in the cold in their grief because that's what bobby told him to do (in his mind). and while buck is doing all of this and also processing his own enormous grief, he is missing the fact that what Eddie needs right now is not the same as what everyone else needs from him. everyone else has their families and their partners and their private grief, but what Eddie needs in all of this is for buck to fill the emotional role that he usually fills, which is – for all intents and purposes – his husband. and this is sort of the first tacit acknowledgement that what they are to each other and what they need from each other is something different than what they are to the other people in their lives.

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Are his concerns, your concerns? 9-1-1 ((inspired by this post))