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mothballz2004 · 23 days ago

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May I get your thoughts, opinions, and ideas on Èowyn's reaction to the situation she found in with Grima? Do you think it was at all possible that Théodred and/or Éomer, realizing the danger she was specifically in, tried to send her away someplace safer, away from Edoras, and she said no because she refused to leave them and her Uncle? I don't think it was discussed extensively in the book how it all went down in the decline of Théoden's health and household, but I know you've thought about it. Would you be willing to share your headcanons? 😊

Personally I know Grima is a creep with considerable influence, but I've also had trouble thinking of Èowyn has a caged bird with zero power surrounding her own fate. True, she was limited in what she could do and in how people perceived her, but I could never see her as helpless. I always thought she was more trapped in her own depression and discontentment. 🤷‍♀️ Grima would certainly never have been able to physically overpower her. Was the danger to her really just that her loved ones might be stripped away from her?

Again I guess I just have a hard time thinking of Théodred and Èomer not keeping a closer watch over her and taking extra steps to keep her safe, if they realized that she was a target.

Sorry for the rambling! 😂 I know you can explain your own thoughts in a more organized way that I do!

My answer to this got MUCH longer than I expected. I found that I had to kind of walk through it systematically to make it (hopefully) clear, and that made it very long. Sorry!! 😬 (Also, this answer is all rooted in the books, not films.)

As in most situations in life, I think the dynamics here are nuanced, complicated and sometimes contradictory. It would have been much more straightforward if all Éowyn had to worry about was herself, if she (or others) had the unfettered freedom to act in accordance with what was best for her, and if there weren’t social/cultural expectations that worked against her interests. But that wasn’t the deal at the time.

As a threshold matter, I 100% agree that I cannot see Éowyn as helpless and weak, because we know she wasn’t. She was smart, strong, trained to fight and incredibly brave. If Gríma had eventually tried to cross some invisible line that she had devised for herself, there’s no way he could have physically overpowered her without significant outside help. But even though I think she could have flattened him in a one-on-one fight, I don’t think that advantage would have helped her much in her day to day life, because hurting or killing him wasn’t a realistic way to deal with the threat he posed.

When we meet him, Gríma has quite a lot of power. He has Théoden’s clear support (not obtained through clean means, but he has it nonetheless), and he operates with the king’s authority, uses his resources and issues orders in his name. To mess with Gríma, then, is to mess with the will of the king, and that’s illegal and even treasonous. If you take that step, it could mean severe punishment, including imprisonment or death. And being a member of the royal family wouldn’t necessarily protect you from that (see: Éomer getting unceremoniously jailed later in the story). So I don’t find it surprising that Éowyn (or others) would not have chosen to take on Gríma directly at the time of the story, given that it still wasn’t entirely clear exactly how evil his larger plan was and he hadn’t yet acted on his designs on her beyond being a super creepy perv who watched and followed her.

But if she couldn’t get away with harming or threatening Gríma, why didn’t she just flee instead? This is less clear but there are several potential explanations. For one, she may not have seen that as possible. If it was Théoden’s expectation that she be his nursemaid, then again, she can’t just ignore the will of her king. We don’t explicitly know if that’s the case, but he certainly didn’t seem to consider literally anyone else as a possible substitute for the care she gave (definitely not one of the boys!!). Also, let’s not forget Gandalf’s words from the Houses of Healing, where he questions whether Gríma only spoke poison into the ears of Théoden. If he instead also filled Éowyn’s mind with despairing, hopeless thoughts, he might have caused her to believe that she was irrevocably trapped. Given how desperately unhappy and imperiled she was, it seems plausible that she would have tried to run if she could, and the fact that she didn’t may suggest that she literally couldn’t or at least didn’t think that she could.

But let’s say she could have left and perceived herself as having that choice. There are still numerous reasons why she might have stayed. As you note, she presumably loved Théoden as an uncle and surrogate father and showed him a lot of loyalty and devotion. She would hardly be the first person to knowingly and willingly keep themselves in a position of danger, vulnerability and unhappiness out of concern for someone who would be left behind if they fled. So, that’s also very plausible.

Even if she had no personal affection for Théoden, though, it’s possible that she’d have been reluctant to leave him anyway. It’s worth remembering that Théodred and Éomer didn’t live in Edoras — they were based in Helm’s Deep and Aldburg, respectively, and the urgent press of duties there often kept them away. So Éowyn was the only member of the royal family to be always present with Théoden, able to keep a continuous eye on what was happening and to try to do what she could to counteract the negative daily influence of Gríma. She probably felt a sense of duty to be there, even at the cost of exposing herself to harm and finding the whole thing hateful and degrading. (Note that she DOES try to leave once Théoden is healed and she doesn’t have the duty to watch him anymore!)

Now, if her concerns were about caring for Théoden and/or blunting Gríma’s influence, there were ways to try to mitigate those concerns while still allowing her to flee, most notably by finding someone else who could step into her role. But who? Your choices are 1) someone who wasn’t in the royal family and thus was arguably in an even weaker position relative to Gríma than Éowyn was; or 2) Théodred or Éomer, who would have to give up their marshal duties to come back to Edoras full time even as conditions in the East- and West-marks were significantly deteriorating.

I can (and do) hate that Éowyn, as the female royal who lacked any other formal role within Rohan’s political and military structure, got stuck with the perilous nursemaid duties just because she was, for lack of a better word, available. I can (and do) stipulate that it was quite convenient for Théodred and Éomer that Éowyn was there and could be counted on to put her misery aside and handle things at home so that they could keep doing what they were doing. But I also acknowledge the reality and seriousness of the tasks Théodred and Éomer were undertaking — things that were central to the protection and safety of the kingdom overall and that could have been substantially harmed by the need to stop and return to Edoras. All those statements can be true at once. I don’t think Théodred and Éomer set out to disadvantage Éowyn because she was a girl, but in practice she was disadvantaged for that reason because they had official jobs that she did not and a crush of external pressures heightened the stakes of every decision such that no one felt comfortable casting aside all those formal jobs and normal ways of doing things to try a different, novel approach.

My personal interpretation of the characters’ choices is that Éowyn loved Théoden and felt a duty to Rohan. For that reason, she wasn’t going to leave him on his own in that state, no matter how unhappy, afraid or angry she was. She was also depressed, isolated and probably influenced by Gríma not to trust the other people around her. So the only way she would have agreed to give up that duty and flee was if one of the only two people she did trust — Théodred or Éomer — was back in Edoras to take the duty in her stead. But I don’t think she ever really expected that to happen because, you know, that’s just not how things worked. Marshals of the Mark had their own urgent duties and obligations, and I don’t think it’s especially likely that she expected her cousin or brother to upend established norms that way even if she wished for it. She was, sadly, resigned to this fate.

As for Théodred and Éomer, I think those two judged that the threat of catastrophic violence in the East and West was sufficiently high that they couldn’t abandon their commands to deal with the situation in Edoras. They instead took the very significant and calculated risk to have Éowyn handle Edoras even though she was both terribly unhappy and in danger there — not because they didn’t love her or worry about her but because they simply felt themselves to be without any choice and weren’t yet able to think enough outside of the box they were raised in to see another alternative. I think they trusted her and probably took some comfort in knowing that she had the training, skills and bravery to act at need, and I think they also enlisted the secondary help of other folks in Edoras who could keep a close watch on their behalf and come to Éowyn’s aid if events ever seemed to be getting beyond her control. Among these would be Háma and Elfhelm, both of whom are canonically fond of Éowyn, supportive of her, and close enough to be on hand in an emergency.

I would have made different choices myself, but I can see why they all made the choices they did even as I disagree. Again, all their options were bad and came with big risks. You can’t have a royal family member keeping an eye on Théoden and Gríma AND have the marshals of the Mark preventing the collapse of Rohan’s borders AND get Éowyn out of that dangerous and hateful position in Edoras. At best, you can do 2 out of those 3 at any one time. That is not an enviable place to be.

FWIW, I do think that a change in strategy was imminent in February 3019. Our heroes were going to have to become willing to do something that was previously unthinkable if they were going to overcome Gríma’s advantages (namely, his willingness to play dirty). Maybe that means murdering Gríma in an act of vigilante justice, no matter the consequence. Maybe that’s pushing Théoden from the throne since he wasn’t ruling competently. But I think they were coming to understand that SOMETHING had to change. We see in UT that it was getting increasingly common for Théodred and others to act without orders in order to thwart Gríma’s intent, and it’s a short walk from “I’m not waiting for orders” to “I don’t follow the orders you give” to “I no longer recognize your authority at all.” Perhaps even Gríma and Saruman could see this dynamic coming into shape, which is why they murdered Théodred in an attempt to head it off. So it’s possible things for Éowyn might have changed at some point soon, though we’ll never know exactly how because the unexpected arrival of Gandalf changed everything!

I’m SO SORRY that got so long. I hope ANY of it was useful at all! And of course, this is just my own two cents. There are plenty of other valid interpretations, and some of those may suit you better!

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