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nellynee · 7 months ago

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Dear Hazbin Hotel Fandom (with special note for reader insert fic writers at bottom)

Been thinking about Hazbin and like, economy, and infrastructure, and fucking culture in hell. And I like to imagine that earth is like, modern age if not a bit further into the future, and Hell is just so far behind

And I see most writers attribute this to old powers that be more or less forcing people to adhere to their affections, but I feel like it's so much more complex than that.

Like if there's any kind of infrastructure in place, like say, oh IDK utilities, that infrastructure in modern times relies very heavily on established modern infrastructure built before it, and a certain degree of cultural niceties to leave it alone, as well as all the means in terms of sourcing labor, resources, and cold hard cash for its construction and continued upkeep.

Which is near impossible in a place like hell. A place where at least once a year, the ritual killing of the masses leads to huge turf wars set to destroy said infrastructure. In such a every man for himself society, who's making sure these roads aren't full of potholes and the lights stay on?

Which leads to a very easy answer, Overlords. This is why Overlords own millions of souls. It's the expected currency for stability. Overlords oversee a certain degree of infrastructure, normalization of life. Depending on your deal, Overlords might guarantee a base degree of normalcy in exchange for souls. Like you might get better rental opportunities in areas where the buildings aren't likely to be torn down regularly. You get running water and electricity, books and other entertainment, access to better food, security during large scale danger events (including the exterminations) ect. And refusing to sell your soul could severely limit opportunities. Imagine if everyone is born into poverty, and you are only allowed the chance to access middle class jobs, houses, ect if you cut off a finger. Everyone does it, you aren't using it anyways, and your life gets significantly easier if you do....

But yeah I think people who write for the fandom are seriously understating the actual affects the lack of a central government probably has on the different areas of the city, and what it actually means to be an Overlord, and why things work the way they do.

Like I am 1000% sure there's no mail in hell. Like mailmen and carriers and an organization system. Unless an Overlord was particularly invested in it... No I think for a very long time long distance communication took place through hired help. People specifically paid for or in one's employ to carry personal missives on an immediate basis as needed. Delivery men. This is why Vox's electronics are such a hit. It provides a degree of luxury unknown to the masses before this; or known of and since lost and have nostalgia for.

I also firmly believe that this is still how Overlords and influentials communicate. Vox's infrastructure is convenient, but it would require seceeding a degree of independence powerful people can't afford to give up. You can order one of your souls to take a message and others to protect them, but to use a phone is to put your communication network in the hands of someone else, and a potential enemy at that.

Lack of infrastructure aside, I also don't want to understate the effects of only a certain percentage of the populace being present has. 100% of the people dropping into hell can know what a blender is, but if not a single souls who drops down knows how one works, then hell just straight up doesn't have blenders. Which is another factor into a lot of the lingering old timey feel of Hell. Technology has to be invented on earth, then become popularized enough that the knowledge of its creation beats out the numbers dropping into hell and it can be made. Not to mention someone has to be interested enough to let it be made in the first place. This is why some Overlords center around such singular niches. They were passionate enough to teach themselves in life the knowledge needed to build that particular luxury from scratch. Even if it had been decades since development in earth, the knowledge just doesn't migrate well.

I also imagine this having a huge impact on the entertainment industry. Lots of writers go on about old songs but not one has the guts to claim an artists is in hell and still making their art in hell

Can you imagine the cutthroat industry developed around having to claw your way up through hundreds of years of new music and nostalgia when your own fan base is still mostly on earth and the other artists have had centuries or decades to establish themselves?

Which brings me to my last and most important point..... Shoes. Well, shoes and clothing, and mass production.

It just ain't fucking happening in Hell.

One, in sure the Pride ring is getting some of their commerce from other rings. I'm talking consumables. Textiles and food. This is also a city spanning millions of people, and what hydroponics isn't used to grow pot is probably being sponsored by Overlords to grow produce for their souls. Which means some production but not nearly enough to feed the city. Which means food probably looks like a large majority of people eating hell based produce from outside the ring, with dedicated smuggling rings (like what we see with IMP, travelers who bring earth commerce home, I'm guessing Lust ring Incu/Sucubi looking for side gigs) bringing back seeds, cuttings, and cultural touchstones like movies, books, and music to be mass copied and distributed. Those living in certain areas or with the right amount of cash can pay for produce grown from that smuggled earth produce.

Meat is predominantly hell born in nature, probably produced from Wrath, and Sloth's oceans, with an uncomfortably large supplemental of cannibalistic meat being corpses harvested by street folk and sold to butchers for cheap, cooked and sold Sweeney Todd style. I do think Cannibalism is far more widespread and normalized than most are comfortable thinking, for practical reasons. There are just so many dedicated cannibals in the colony alone...look, there is neither space for cows nor a means to get them down there.

In any case, clothing.

This is a huge pet peeve for me in fics because I don't think anyone really thinks this one through, the sheer volume of the fashion industry in its infrastructure and how much of that Hell is lacking

Not to even mention that everyone is hell is shaped weird. Head to toe. Weird bodies all the time. Everywhere.

I just don't think mass produced clothing is a thing. Or at least nearly a refined as earth. Off the rack shit is probably very plain, and very vaguely shaped. Lots of missing sleeves, wide arm holes, drawstrings and buttons. The bare minimum. The cloth equivalent of fig leaves. Pride based clothing outlets, if there is any mass production, probably base their shapes a lot of Imps and Hellhounds and mostly humanoid with four limb, just to have a consistent customer base and hope they get lucky with hellborn. You probably have to pay to have a pattern made for your body and then have basic shit seen up from there or learn to do it yourself. Lots of people earning side cash sewing garbage clothes for cheap. Dudes with a bunch of ink and a screen printing custom graphic tees from their apartment making bank.

And don't even get me started on shoes. Most people have hooves or paws, and if they don't have that, there's a sizable chance they won't even have feet. There just isn't mass produced shoes. There physically can't be. There is no consistency in size. It is literally not possible.

All to say, sewing is probably a pretty valuable skill to have. Tailors and cobblers are probably both valued jobs and incredibly necessary. It's also probably pretty damn expensive. Which is actually why we don't see a lot of shoes, and why some folks are strange about clothes. It's just not practical anymore. And it's wildly expensive. Why go through the bother of getting a tailor or cobbler to make time and then get charged through the nose for something that might get destroyed or stolen soon anyways?

Which brings me to my special comment

Dear Reader insert writers. Specifically the Reader/Alastor crew, but this is pretty blanket

Unless your OC, or the clothing, is a very specific shape, Angel is not loaning your OC nothing in terms of textiles. Think real hard about whether your OC's feet will fit into one of his custom made boots... Really think about it. The love is there, but it's Hell. Let your OC struggle with everything. They can't get housing because everywhere outside an Overlord's domain is full and they can't rent without trading their soul to an overlord. They have trouble finding non human meat or palatable produce or even coffee. Their clothes are coming apart at the seams and laundry mats don't exist. Its hell, it's hard, and it's not made for them. If Angel ends them anything, it's gonna fit like a nightmare or be secondhand from another hooker and look like it. And it's going to be expensive AF

This is especially for you Alastor shippers. Textiles work a lot closer to how it functioned in his time than ours. In fact it probably functions closer to Rosie's time than his. And something I need you to remember is courting etiquette. Because I often see this overlooked. The best example I have for this is the song "baby it's cold outside", which viewed through the modern lense sounds like a creepy preamble to that poor woman being accosted, but in the lense of the time period it was written, is seen a feminine strong song, a woman using the tools available of her time to openly flirt and accept an offer to stay overnight. And while most people remember that Al comes from a time where gifting is used to show affection, I don't think they remember why that is. Like yes, there can be, and probably should be, a certain degree of possessiveness involved, given where we are and who we are talking about. But we must remember that this was a time period before women could divorce their husbands in the US. These gifts had social meaning. Women couldn't own property, were discouraged from jobs after settling down, and just didn't have the means to care for themselves. Expensive clothing and jewels were a statement. It told the community that the husband could, and did, provide for his wife financially. It gave the woman tangible items that, if properly cared for, would provide her with capital enough that should her husband die before her, he could be her only husband, that she wouldn't be forced to remarry. It a statement of of societal expectation, but also of how much he cared for her well being. And this is an aspect I see missing from Alastor's commentary. Yes there is a magical aspect of protection often employed, but he doesn't lavish his beau with Fur coats and hand crafted hats with obnoxiously bejeweled pins and easily displayed but hard to care for items that are as much a declaration of love in value as they are in attention. The closest I've ever seen is the fics by corruptedteacups, in which the flapper set gifted to the MC is described just as much in its beauty as the sheer quality of the fabric and beading involved. It feels substantial and expensive.

Just a small fandom peeve of mine, but some desperately needed context and depth I hope people think on.

#hazbin hotel #alastor x reader

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nellynee · 7 months ago

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There's something very viscerally emotional, something between enamoured and inspired and being seen, that pings in me about the relationship between Love and Divinity in Great God Grove.

The game has such a pointed commentary on censorship through redefining and mislabeling things in Hobbyhoo that I can't help but feel like the "unappealing to the masses" tension that was edited out of "Oh Partner Mine" wasn't unappealing for its queerness but from its openness, the romance itself, the love.

And I think about the large gap in time between innovation and creation, and that of love. How the world of GGG had needed love so much that they exalted the spread and embodiment of it into Divinity after centuries without a new god. The world before and after Thespius and how he must have reached the hearts of literally thousands to get the vote on love alone. How it touches and empassions the worshipers despite its lack of general appeal.

I think of the Rebellion in BuzzHuzz being about reunification, not mutiny. About Mildread and community and memory and the plenty of the earth being the same. About Bauhauzzo's tears and his adoration for the good and bad. I think about the ancient god of Nighttime's tears, heart exposed, and a gathering of worshipers standing in the rain, more worried about her emotions than a flood. About Click Clack wanting to love Thespius so much that the greatest gift he can imagine is the entire world's love.

I think of Inspekta's fall and the lack of love there. About a pantheon with such a wide gap in time, about how surely, surely Inspekta was not the first god to change his mind. The way the gods adore their worshipers, but are distant, referring to them as almost a part of the self. Self love, but not connection. How they pair off and find connection with one another. How Mitternacht lost all capability after disconnecting from her favorite mortal. How Cobigail's domain is withering and she's loosing herself. I think about how she and Inspekta are both mortal within living memory of the population, how Inspekta is at a crossroads that Cobigail seems to have successfully navigated, the acceptance of that disconnect from mortality into the Divine love for all. How he probably took one look at his aging congregation, and realized that he embodies a concept built on loneliness without said congregation, on the concept of being on top, and realized there was no one left for him soon, and the loneliness that must have inspired, the fear, the lack of love, and how he falls from grace. I think about how he grew up in a world where love was a form of worship, and how wanting it as a god must have hurt his pride, to need the blessings of another god the way the others didn't seem to need him anymore.

I think about the open queerness of it all and yet the Grove isn't treated as a queer paradise where you can express yourself. It's treated like this is simply the world, an entire planet in which expression is seen, but stories of love and words of affection can be bitten back in fear. The devout who live in the grove open and affectionate in ways visitors aren't.

The god of memory cries. The goddess of night weeps. Creation, innovation, stories, song, mirth, elequence, teamwork, communication, community, LOVE!

LOVE LOVE LOVE

(Love is Zelotism, and not everyone is a zelot. We must appeal to everyone. Spread the Good Word Click Clack)

In a world without a god of war, a god of victory or medicine or the sun, for the first time in ages, the people demanded Love!

Love is Worship! Love is Divine!

I think of the world outside the grove, and the depictions of love, how love must seem to some degree now like prayer. The very real vision that Love equates to worship; a malcontent masses choosing repression and privatization of their love as an act of atheism.

Love is an act of God!

Idk what my point here is. Something about that one might look at a heart locket as one might a cross on a chain. The relationships people in general and individually might have with love as it's associated with religion. The story of these gods and how successful they are in terms of love given and received. There's something fascinating there to chew on.

#great god grove #ggg spoilers

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nellynee · 9 months ago

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Dear Hazbin Hotel fandom

I say and mean this with the most possible respect and love. I mean this in the kindest way possible.

Stop using poker as the pivotal game in your gambling/Husk centric fics/storylines

Like you're fine. It's fine. What's typically presented in fic is usually a very Hollywood romanticized version of poker, and that's what 90% of what the fic consumers are going to be familiar with, and it's fine. But as someone who does play poker, let mama tell you how to step up your game a little bit.

So why shouldn't I use poker?

First of all, poker's psychology doesn't really work like Hollywood says it does. You aren't sitting around a table of other people who's ears twitch or scratch their nose every time they got two aces in their hand. Anyone with such tells is sitting at the low roller table getting slowly milked by a Stepford dealer. An ok table might be a ring of stone walled faces, guys taking themselves way to seriously. Guys with enough skill to maybe break even and with way more ego at stake than money, though they might have that in spades. They might make their way to the high roller tables, but only get invited so the House can milk some cash back off them if they happen to land big. They might be smart enough to say no depending on the character, but these types will probably be foaming to sit with the Big Wigs. A lot of fics do this right actually.

But poker is a social game. You aren't looking for physical tells, you are looking for consistency. A bad poker player is a consistent one. If you consistently only bet on good hands, or try to bluff on pairs, or keep doing the same things, you can be predicted. And poker is not the safe game where you can lead your opponent Hollywood wants it to be. In a decent game of poker, you can't know if you are going to win, because you can't know what your opponent is going to do. Two decent players are going to shake up their strategies, calling, folding, and raising with different definitions of usable hands, all while trying to retain enough money to bully bigger pots away when you don't have a sure thing, and taking advantage of the sunk cost fallacy to try and trickle up pots bigger when you do.

More importantly. It's a slow game. Even with multiple people to play off each other, you aren't going to have a lot of excitement. It's a lot of garbage, a lot of calling the first around of cards to feel each other out in a very quick, passive way, or folding garbage, and a lot of passing the same low pot back and forth. It's why poker is so social. Unless something is happening, nothing is happening. And there's a lot of downtime.

It's also not a two player game. Like, you can. But a table is probably going to break up long before that point. Watch the tail end of a professional poker tournament to see why. It's hands and hands and hands and hands of folds and low calls. And when one person calls, you are statistically way more likely to just fold and wait for your own decent hand. It's the slow grind of several players but less to play off of. It's agonizing. People often get bored before they win and raise to get it over with.

Poker is not your penultimate, tension building, end of the arch game you want it to be.

But what if I want to use Poker/how do I use Poker?

Like I said. Poker is a slow, social game. You absolutely can use it for your finale, but a few easy tweaks will give it some real authenticity

Use it as a padding game but not the final one. I've seen versions where people have Husk calling in Overlords and Royals and even Sins to pass around gossip and mathoms and alcohol. This is legit perfect. Poker between equals in terms of bets in a casual setting is mostly a social game. This also makes poker the perfect game for the hotel patrons in modern day fics

2. Add them garbage hands. An offhand mention of big gaps between exciting hands can go miles towards authenticity.

3. Have wins with bad sounding hands. This is a bit difficult because you have to learn a bit about the game, but again, watch tournament and you'll see a lot of wins where everyone folded and the winner had a pair of 7's. Learning the heiarchy of cards and hands just enough for one or two hands can go miles towards sounding like you know what you are doing.

4. Add players. If you want that tension building showdown, a group of nameless, faceless nobodies works fine but like, there are some interesting ways to take this. Have the big moment come during what is externally a perfectly normal game, only for Husk to cash out and let everyone else have opinions on why. Let him use the other players so subtly up the ante for him so what he wants ends up in the pot while retaining deniability so his opponent isn't suspicious

Hell, have someone unrelated win Angel's soul what Husk wanted and have that lead into a second act twist

The act of Valentino and Husk playing two person poker the way it's typically presented is certainly possible. But to anyone who's got a familiarity with the game, the way Val would have to be led by the nose and twisted around to play that badly completely undermines Valentino as a villain. And if you want to do that, fine, but it also completely undermines the tension of the scene as well.

But what if I specifically want a Poker game between Husk and Val because of some details I've already written

You can ultimately end up with a two person Poker match between Val and Husk but a few tweaks will really elevate the authenticity of the scene

Add other people, like I said. They can drop out quick, or end up as bystanders as the tension rises but start the game with a full table. If Husk as an overlord owns the casino, that makes him the house. Poker is a bully game. You get people to put in bits, then use your bigger stache to up the pot until they fold at a loss because calling is to risky. Husk needs to define his pot before the game starts or no one will want to play with him. It might not be as exciting, but define your pots. It's much more realistic for Val to become desperate than overconfident. A game of sunk cost. Of betting more than you can afford. Of "this hand will win it"

Ugh that's to complicated, but I have plotlines and important moments around cards, any alternatives?

Old maid.

the game you are looking for is old maid. At its simples form, you split the deck, grab a blind card from the other person's hand, make a pair of cards on your turn to discard, and keep going until there is one card left, "the old maid" or looser card. This is the game.

Is a one or nothing bet style that gradually raises the tension as cards are passed back and forth and you try to get the "old maid" out for your hands. It very dependant on body language and trying to both read your opponent and lead them. It's got everything Hollywood wants you to believe Poker is except the escalation of a pool, and there's nothing stopping the players from adding to the pot during a game or playing multiple rounds to allow for manipulation.

It's also what Husk and Alastor were playing in the flashback.

It has thematic relevance to Husk and his overlord days (it also makes sense why Alastor won, cheating or no, with that manic, stone face, he has no tells when he's in control of a situation)

I have my own opinions about Overlord Husk Au, but please, let him gamble well.

#hazbin hotel husk #hazbin hotel #huskerdust

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nellynee · 9 months ago

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Recently reminded that I never actually completed my series of cultural, biological, and world building Trolls (DreamWorks) meta that I've had sitting in my Drafts since 2021. So rather than finish it, I've decided to post what I had with some minor edits, with a second post to come about some tribe specific meta.

At some points you might see references that don't exist (ala, see "subject on expanding on this idea") where I had planned a series of other articles to be linked back later. Rather than write them all out and burn myself out, I'll probably only address the mentioned topics if someone shows interest, and link them back later then. So yeah, feel free to ask on any of those or for explanations or expansions.

This stuff is ancient, but overall holds up and is still my general headcanons to this day, though the tone is strange to me now after all this time. Most notably I have not watched the third movie. I have spoiled myself for it for the most part, but what I've seen has left me disappointed and uninterested, so all of this is technically canon compliant to a point up through World Tour, colored by the TV shows, and does not account for Band Together at all. Everything below is as written as of 2021, with any modern expansions labeled with an edit.

Reminder to take all this as a “generalization and stereotyping” sort of thing, which of course ignores obvious exceptions and nuances and personal preferences of a sentient species

General biology and behaviors:

Trolls are a plant based lifeform. All parts of a Troll including hair are digestible, though due to the repeated consumption and internal refinement of excess sugars, their sap is exceptionally sweet. While Trolls come in a variation of shapes and colors, their sap is universally transparent with visible iridescence. Troll sap is known to cause a euphoric high in most species and thus, Trolls are the victims of several natural predators.

It is believed that the phenomenon known as Harmonic Tranquilizing developed as a direct result, though this is up for debate as other uses have been observed. Known consistencies in this behavior is the use of vocalizations to affect the immediate vicinity of said Troll in a pacifying way. Experiencing these vocalizations causes a much milder form of the same euphoric high produced by consuming the sap. It is unknown how these vocalizations are able to affect their surroundings, though it’s believed to affect the endocrine systems, as they affect low sentience flora as well as all fauna. All Trolls carry this ability, with the only known exceptions being instrumental based Troll mutations. While most mutations of this variety are small communities of nomads who have found alternative adaptions, the most prolific and notable of these exceptions would be the mountain dwelling Classical Trolls, who at some unknown point completely lost the ability to use of Harmonic Tranquilizing in exchange for their highly domesticated local fauna being able to do so instead. (see Trolls as a keystone species, see Troll symbiotic relationships)

Edit: (sing away the paaaaain. Harmonic Tranquilizing was my way of trying to create a word for the behaviors we see in trolls through singing. I've specifically had some form of this headcanons since movie one, talking about Branch and going grey as a hormonal stress response, and how singing might be used around him as a subconscious attempt to reduce stress and increase health. Also explaining away the end of movie dance sequences, singing when nervous or towards those who are upset. This isn't a word used by the trolls (maybe something made up by some very specific funk trolls doing some very specific research) but it's no more a general word in the trolls lexicon as say a word for "you exude dopamine when eating good food" would for people. Though it is a much more intense phenomenon capable of being observed. Troll societies who have observed with would probably adhere it to some facet of bonding or spirituality when addressed.)

It is strongly believed classical Trolls did have this ability at one point, as their closest known relative, the Operatic Troll, retains the ability. Why they lost this ability is unknown though, as other variations of farmer Trolls, the most notable and prolific being the yodeling Troll, contains specifically strong examples. It is believed that oxygen availability at high altitudes may be a factor in this loss.

(edit: will be discussing Operatic trolls and nomads in my tribe specific posts)

Another notable species that is rapidly loosing the classic example of Harmonic Tranquilizing is the underwater Techno Troll. While examples of vocalization have been found, the majority of the Harmonic Tranquilizing affect seems to come from the rhythmic pulsing of the Techno Troll’s exposed Wishstone (see wishstones in mythology)

The initial development of this ability is up for debate due to the varied uses that have been observed. Said uses include

pacification of predators

pacification of farmed resources in the form of living creatures from more predatory Trolls

calming of young

encouragement of aggression from other Trolss (notable in that vocalizations can affect other Trolls in ways other than pacifying, and seemingly done with intention)

encouragement of a lack of aggression from other Trolls

vocalization from nearby fauna and flora (unknown if this is a byproduct of pacification or intent

hormonal balancing in imbalanced trolls (see troll coloration variation vs loss of color)

courting behaviors

large vocalization gatherings of unknown meaning, though observation of behaviors lead the belief as bonding exercises, potentially through said hormone balancing

observations of said behaviors has led to the prevalent theory that trolls of similar genre’s are able to cause a more euphoric sensation in one another, as when placed together, different genres are still prone to grouping

(edit: basically, there is some biological component to what a troll's genre is. Genre is both your heritage, and what you practice, in the way that say, Cooper is a Funk Troll by birth and Pop by practice. Trolls of similar genre have physical responses to their genre's style, and will see different genre's presentations as positive or negative specifically when comparing it to their own reactions. Example, a classical troll might appreciate a hard rock's guitar solo for its technical skill, while the hard rock troll might resonate with the message of the song and loud bodaciousness)

Trolls are an ancient species whose variations have become keystone to their respective environments. How they do so vary, though it is most closely related to community building and food collection, some general trends in environmental changes include domestication of local species to suit the Troll’s needs, large scale housing that directly affects the landscape, waterway redirections, and resource hoarding.

On Wishstones:

(edit: Wishstones are a completely unaddressed subject in the DreamWorks Trolls universe, but that wasn't always so. For those who weren't around for the original dolls, Wishstones were the little gem at their belly buttons, and trolls were advertised with the perks of rubbing their stones to grant wishes. Watch an old commercial, they are wild.

The artbook for the first movie addresses Wishstones in an early draft that wanted to establish Creek as a villain early in the story. In that version, his sister was a fully acended troll with a working Wishstone that let her float around in a meditative state. Creek was supposed to have one hell of a complex over his not working stone, and it was supposed to be an indicator of his inner darkness and nature. As it stands, the visual gag of him floating only to reveal he's being carried around is a byproduct of that cut storyline)

Wishstones are the core of a Troll that makes them function. Though they are found to beat much like a heart in an animal, it doesn’t appear to have any sort direct biological function as an muscular organ might. Rather, it works closer to a brain, sending out pulses that direct the health and actions of a Troll. The beating of the Wishstone is necessary, and limbs cut from the main body of the Troll immediately go grey while those injured but still connected to the Wishstones will retain color. An otherwise heathy Troll with an injured Wishstone with quickly fade to grey and expire. Studies indicate that the tempo of beats that a Wishstone maintains is related the Troll’s genre. While most are internalized, some Trolls have adapted to a partially externalized Wishstone for unknown reasons. While it has been found that an exposed Wishstone is necessary for a flight capable Troll, an exposed Wishstone is not necessarily indicative of flight capability. Nomadic Gem Trolls, a subgenre of the Instrumental Trolls, are famous for their beautiful exposed Wishstones, which are said to be covered in a layer of hardened sucralose for protection. Common Troll mythology tells of Gemtrolls who are able to grant fortune telling and wishes if the Wishstone is touched directly, which is where the name of the stone originates. Gem Trolls were nearly hunted to extinction by their own kind as a result, and are a common target of bounty hunters.

(I'll probably go into it deeper when I go over the tribes, but I found it *veeeeeeery* interesting that a series ofpreviously completely sequestered series of cultures would need out of tribe bounty hunters....)

On Troll diet:

(tldr: trolls are plants and their heads are flowers, fight me)

Trolls contain chlorophyll and are able to photosynthesize. Trolls come in a large variety of exceptionally bright colors, but their pigment base comes from highly modified pigment chains not unlike anthocyanin, leaving low pigmentated trolls dark in color but still capable of said photosynthesis. (see Trolls and environmental factors for variations)

As a result, Trolls have very small caloric needs, but disproportionately large trace mineral and water requirements. Trolls are capable of consumption and can augment their needs accordingly to environment. In ideal conditions, a Troll could theoretically subsidize entirely on sunlight and mineral rich waters, but such conditions have yet to be found in the wilds. All Trolls are capable of opportunistic omnivorous behaviors, but show poor meat digestion and a marked preference for high sugar content foods.

(Pop Troll, having only been reintroduced to a moderately rich environment, are not noteworthy, but are a decent comparative control when compared to nomadic subgenres and more extreme mutations)

Closest to the ideal conditions are the Mountain trolls. Rich clean waters and great sun exposure have lead Classical Trolls and their variations to give up much of their darker chlorophyll in favor of the light hair and gold skin camouflage that makes them nearly invisible to airborne predators, but their flying has left them with a much higher calorie and water needs. Classical trolls have adapted a social culture around domestication of the local fauna in a symbiotic train of extensive trade deals. Forming large clans each with their own specializations, the clan’s highly specifically domesticated animals are able to imitate harmonic tranquilizing of very specific kinds, and Classical trolls often form large bands of concerts to make the best use of various specializations at once. Classical trolls use this to control local resources and repel predators to a much greater effect than any other Troll species around. Classical trolls take great pride in their patron animals and live in excess, using said excess to bribe the local clouds for water resources.

(this information above should go into the classical troll shtick, and most will be repeated there, but it's in the original draft so.....)

Trolls do not naturally retain water or excess calories. A majority of waste is exuded out of the mouth as a sort of colorful paste. But excess is refined in the guts and exuded from an orifice at the bottom of the abdomen as a sort of highly nutritional nugget. These nuggets have been observed as being stored for later, given to the sick and young, consumed for large gatherings, and are apparently incredibly sweet to taste. Arguments can also be made of its development as a defense mechanism, in which a startled troll might drop the contents of their stomach to distract a predator with a sweet smelling alternative. While all trolls have this byproduct to some degree (see Trolls and animal domestication, see Country Trolls and gut fermentation) Funk Troll territory is both lavish and lush, and their guts have evolved this refinement to an art. Funk Troll history is filled with periods of rich trade between other Troll Tribes, as well as periodical raids and the occasional territory dispute when they were land bound.

(edit: look....look. I don't want to think about the poop cupcakes, you don't want to think about the poop cupcakes. And yet here I am, here I was, trying to justify the poop cupcakes. The best way I found was to remove the action as far away from waste production as I could, and perhaps tie the action through Cooper, to some of the excess and opulence of the Funk trolls. The closest real world examples would probably be bees, in that it's the collection of sugars, excreted at high concentrations in times of excess, to be consumed in times of little. And also it's explicitly bug vomit but we do not care cause it's yummy. I almost guarantee that this stuff was a Bergan delicacy in the heyday of Troll domestication, and would be so again if rediscovered and capable of mass harvesting)

Rock Trolls live in a similarly mineral rich calorie deficient environment to Classical Trolls, but have evolved a nomadic lifestyle to compensate. Rock trolls have a very high calorie requirement due to local volcanic activity lowering sun quality in their territories, and have become strip grazers in response. They rely heavily on complex networks of travel routs to survive, to allow new growth to appear as fast as they can get to it without starving. Population growth is leaving them more and more dependent on their local variation of Bug Bus (see Angler Bus. See symbiotic Troll relationships. See great Troll migration theories) to travel these routs at greater speeds. It is believed that the gradual darkening and lack of pigmenting in Rock Trolls is due to the greater need to depend on anthocyanin based photosynthesis, but it’s unknown if the change is happening quick enough to maintain sustainability of the population. Current outlook seems unlikely, as Rock Trolls also rely heavily on their opportunistic diet for their water consumption as well. (Note: Am I insinuating that part of Barb’s motivations in the movie came in part from the slightly farther than beginning stresses of food insecurity in her people and the hope that if all Trolls were rock that would mean more resources?... yes I am

(edit: in fact, that was directly what I was implying. Will get into in much greater detail in the rock troll article)

Techno Trolls are a very unique case as the exclusive deep sea aquatic troll (yet known). Their exceptionally high anthocyanin content insinuates they were once surface dwellers, but its later been found they they do very little in the ways of consumption, relying almost exclusively on hydrothermal vents for their mineral needs. Note that Techno Trolls are not bioluminescent by nature, but rather, have developed a symbiotic relationship with a bioluminescent bacteria that lives on and in the Troll. This bacteria uses heat from the thermal vents to chemically produce energy, which is shared with the Troll. Note that parental Techno Trolls do not partake in the bonding experience known as sunbathing with their young, rather have taken to a much higher level of skinship with offspring in developmental stages to share this bacteria. Techno Trolls also receive a very high degree of their pigmentation from their bacteria and thus have the greatest child to parent resemblance of all Troll types. Techno Trolls are a rare case of visual identifiers over vocal, and a infant Techno Trolls can pick out a parent in a group using the exact variation of their parent’s glow as an indicator.

Country Trolls are the most vicious, outwardly aggressive, and carnivorous of all Troll genres. They have become almost entirely reliant on Bugfallo for their nutritional and liquid consumption, as Bugfallo are able to to consume the normally toxic to Trolls but prevalent cacti and produce a sweet and far less toxic Honeydew the Trolls can consume in response. The Honeydew is overly processed to the point of little nutritional value, and consumption of Bugfallo flesh is high enough in demand to compensate that Country Trolls are known to subsidize their diet by raiding other genres, most notably the herding tribes of Yodlers to the north and the nomadic subgenres. Direct consumption of local cacti by the Trolls is technically possible and only fatal in the long term, and is often done by the older generations, as the gut byproduct of the cacti are highly fermented and alcoholic. Repetitive consumption of this fluid quickly intoxicates said Trolls as it ferments more and gets stronger, and some Country Troll families boast multiple generations worth of the same alcohol being re consumed.

(edit: country trolls make tequila in their guts. Their elderly are almost always piss drunk on it. Pass it on)

On troll biology and hair:

Trolls do not have bones, and maintain their shapes through a combination of stretchy membranes and internal pressure. These membranes deteriorate rapidly after death. Chemical reactions upon expiration cause the rapid fermentation of internal sugars, which upon evaporation, leaves a unique and delicate latticework of internal and external structures. It is unknown if this structure aids in shape maintaining, or is adjacent to an nervous system. Trolls are not animals and do not have a brain, but have something noticeably adjacent in the form of a Wishstone kept in the abdomen.

Trolls do have an organ on top of said abdomen that contains some sensory organs of varying use, but what common observation in mammals would call the head of the Troll is rather it’s reproductive organs. Trolls grow large amounts of long thin filaments around their stigma that are able to extend and retract at will. Excess length is kept within the organ’s cavity, reeled around the internal ovary, and can be reeled out at will to more than 10 times the length of the troll in the most impressive of species. These filaments are very thin, excessively strong, and are controlled by minute musculature covering the entire length of the filaments. Though referred to as hair, these filaments are a living functional organ of the troll and should not be cut under any circumstances. It’s believed that ancient trolls once used these in reproductive behaviors, the most common theories being courting displays, passive pollen collection, or mate capturing, but there is no concrete evidence to support such claims other than the rapid filament growth that comes at sexual maturity.

Most modern trolls only have vestigial extension abilities and musculature with enough control to allow conception, but there are notable exceptions. Pop Trolls are famous for their unique chromatophores and dexterity, wish allow them to use their filaments as camouflage to a great degree of success. Like most decorative trolls, (see decorative trolls and hair shapes) Country Trolls have very high external musculature for control, but nearly no internal musculature. But Country Trolls have very notably retained this musculature around their forward facing sensory organs in some individuals. Classical Trolls are another ornamental Troll that has lost most internal musculature, but have interestingly enough mutated to have some filaments grow down and out the back of the abdomen. Cursory dissection of filaments has led to theoretical similarities to those of the Techno Trolls and might be responsible for flight. Techno trolls have the greatest relative reeling ability, though it's uses are unknown, as they are relatively young for an aquatic species and such ability would have developed before their time in water. Modern uses see it being employed in current surfing, allowing Techno trolls to travel great distances with little energy (see migratory trolls)

On “Grey” or “dark” Trolls:

Trolls are famous for their wild variations in pigmentations, but occasionally darkened Trolls that don’t fit their genere’s coloration can be spotted. These trolls should not be confused with naturally dark colored Trolls, who normally contain very high chlorophyll concentrations in darker locations (see Techno Trolls, Rock trolls, Punk trolls and grunge variations, Operetic Trolls, and other dark dwelling variations)

Grey Trolls are Trolls who’s Wishstones have gone quiet (note that a Wishstone can not go silent, as that denotes a dead Troll, but direct correlation has been found between the strength of the beat of a Troll’s Wishstone and primary pigmentation) Trolls can go dark for a large variety of reasons, but it is far more common denotes some sort of long term mental distress. Troll who have received fatal blows do not often loose color as there is no time for the hormonal trigger to take place, though all Trolls lose pigmentation at some point in decomposition. A grey freshly killed Troll denotes suffering or complete separation from the Wishstone.

(edit: This is in reference to Chef's cookbook in her deleated song, a few pages of which can be screen grabbed and read. One recipe calls for thinly slicing the finished product, with a troll still alive in said product, and mentions that a troll that survives a few slices will loose its coloring before it dies, unlike a quickly killed troll, which will retain its bright coloring. The note continues that the cook in question should not worry, as a grey troll retains it's flavor and euphoric effects, it just doesn't look appetizing, and the presentation and filling should cover that up nicely. Absolutely horrific, and has always stuck with me)

Otherwise healthy Trolls might go grey if they have long term medical issues that cause suffering, but this is considered beyond quality of life as it has affected the Trolls mental health. Most common issues in greyed out Trolls is mental distress. It is believed that low pigmentation in a normally pigmented Troll intended to be a visual signal to their community that a Troll is in distress, as other Trolls are often seen using Harmonic Tranquilizing on the affected Troll to great effect, as the euphoric affect of the vocalizations seem to cause artificial stimulation to the Wishstone (see first song stimulation in newborn Trolls) Greying out is commonly very temporary given enough communal exposure. Resistant Trolls most commonly succumb to wasting as they show a resistance to eating and sun exposure and have little interest in personal hygiene or sleep. Long term grey out effects is unknown and untested. Note that grey Trolls do no produce glitter inert or otherwise, do not court or show any other signs of reproductive interest, nor to do they produce seeds/eggs when exposed to glitter, indicating infertility.

(edit: lot of this is based off of the general reaction to Branch and the very visible physical indicator of his mental distress. And the idea that the best cure for what's ailing him really is music. Poppy's continued determination to pull Branch into social gatherings and songs in the first movie is as close to an instinctual reaction to his physical and mental state as you get for a troll. For those outside his tribe, in briefly meeting him, his coloring is dark enough he might be mistaken for a mixed breed of some kind (*flips off Band Together* you will pry Soft Rock!Branch genetics from my cold dead hands) and those who dont assume might think he's just in chronic pain)

(edit 2: am I also insinuating that Branch's depression makes him both infertile and without sexual desire? Yes I am. I developed this idea in parallel to my own struggles in trying to untie my own asexuality from my depression. The original idea coming from the hilarious idea that Pop Trolls have accidently developed a propensity for giant springtime orgies, which look an awful lot like the world's glitteriest dance party. I had developed 3 separate chapters, one before the movie in which Branch looks on with some bitterness but overall apathy, one in which recently recovering Branch finds himself on the outskirts but without inclination to join, much to his own embarrassment. He spends most of the time with the people helping on the sidelines (hydration, food, childcare, ECT) and talking to *actual asexual* Biggie. The third fallows quite deep into recovery and the discovery of his own desire to pursue Poppy in the fray beyond romantic.)

On reproductive biology and child rearing:

Trolls are plants and are built very similar to a flower (edit: not similar. They are straight up a flower). The organ on top of their abdomen contains their ovaries, with their stigma terminating in their scalp. There is little visual indication of the stigma compared to the rest of the scalp, but there is a textural change that can be determined with practice.

(edit: in a very tldr short version. Their body is the stem, their head is the ovary containing the seeds (eggs) their hair their petals. Their cheeks are the part that produce pollen (glitter) and the central part of their scalp the place pollen is received and where the seed emerges. Troll sex consists of rubbing their cheeks together, and potentially all over each other, and hoping the pollen is exposed to the stigma.)

(edit 2: I spent a loooooong time contemplating whether the stigma (pollen receiving organ that takes it to the ovaries to produce a seed) should be on the scalp, or in the mouth, adding kissing and licking into the mix, and I'm still really attached the idea of the soft pallet as the exposed part of the stigma. I'm up for debate on either option.)

Trolls do not have filaments, and their anther is instead exposed on the apple of their cheeks. Troll Microsporangium is chunky, shimmery, and metallic in color, and is universally referred to by trolls as Glitter. (note that the inferior set of cheeks on the lower abdomen also produces large quantities of glitter, but this glitter in inert). Trolls also produce inert Glitter on the anther from birth, and that inert Glitter is visibly different from viable Glitter, with viable Glitter being discernably more holographic and chunkier than inert Glitter. Trolls can easily tell the difference between and are unbothered by common inert Glitter, though it can be seen as an attractive trait. Other attractive traits vary by genre, but high pigmentation, well groomed hair (see ornamental Trolls) and pleasant vocalizations are universal attractors as well.

Note that Glitter covered mutations have been noted in the wild (see classical trolls, see pigmentation display theory) and artificially (see the Bergan affects on troll biology). Glitter covered Trolls are not more reproductivly viable, but carry a mutation that causes production of inert glitter in mass.

Reproductive Troll sex consists of courting behaviors to trigger hormonal responses, viable glitter production, and the frantic rubbing of the anthers on each other to encourage cross pollination. Even the most advanced Troll societies are not particularly interested in the sciences behind reproduction, so general Troll society tends to be less than knowledgeable and ascribe some spirituality to the act. But some tribes know more than others, and bathing is almost universally considered the most consistent contraceptive.

(edit: look. Humans as a species only like, *just* figured out how human reproduction works on a molecular level. The only trolls debatably advanced enough to care might be the Funk trolls. Most trolls aren't going to know how their bodies work in sexual and non sexual ways, and their understanding of how they do work will mostly boil down to whatever mysticism their cultures have attached to it, as well as any correlations they've discovered, and any misconceptions when conflating it with causation

Reproductive sex rarely leads to conception. Unless a Troll accidently or otherwise rubs the Glitter in their hair, the Glitter has a short viability span and must drift into the hair naturally. Conception is less common in small Troll communities as the presence of children suppresses reproductive hormones. Larger communities can afford to sequester children away and thus encourage reproduction in not child responsible adults.

(edit: this was the beginning of a long article attempting to explain the Pop troll numbers vs how much they must have been eaten and needing replaced vs the sustained population down the road, moved to pop troll article)

(edit: and this is where it ends. I had a whole listing of tribe specific diets, courting behaviors, some rough historical events and holidays, ECT, but I'm now choosing to save those for individual posts.

#dreamworks trolls #long post

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nellynee · 10 months ago

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A few hours late but the sentiment remains

If my lazy butt can make the effort while my father tries to pass his massive aggressive rhetoric as joke for half an hour to the polls, you can too

Vote!

#us politics

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nellynee · 11 months ago

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Open season huskerdust fic concepts cause I'll certainly never write them (use as you like but lmk if you write I'll gobble that shit up!)

A Peggy Sue (character goes back in time with knowledge of future events) Husker fic. Key points include things like

Husk building an Overlord Au empire. His vice is gambling and he's pretty lazy, so the original version who sold himself to Alastor simply amassed personal power and riches he could gamble and coasted on fame but didnt build infrastructure. He does so the second time to give himself a power base he *can* safely gamble with and a potential safe space for Angel. In other words, canon overlord Husk was a singular gambler, au Husk builds an empire out of spite.

Husk and Val drop into hell at about the same time. If Husk goes after Angel right away then this is still early stage Val who's charismatic and sweet and gives Angel any drug he pleases. Angel is the old blood here.

Say it with me folks. Husk would let Angel do sex work! Angel likes it and Husk isnt the jelous type!

Husk genuinely contemplates just sitting back and letting Angel be until he regrets Val's deal because like he's hasn't hits that self reflection and isnt the same Angel yet and Husk can't force him and not be an asshole and OG Angel wouldnt apreciate being babied like this but on the other hand he could save Angel a few lifetimes of suffering. Maybe he'll loose a game and a pretty valuable angelic weapon to Angel to give him a way out when he needs it (that would be such a bittersweet ending!)

Husk still ends up betting his soul to Alastor. Not because of outside tension but becaue of his own vices and moral failings. Husk doesn't sing about his drinking or laziness in looser baby it's his gambling addiction. He knows it's a bad idea. He always swore *if he could only go back*. But *what if he wins?*

2. Soft porno AU. In the wake of Ozzie declaring his love for Fizzie, there's been a small, but noticiable and steadily climbing, trend of demand for softcore schmaltzy porno. Starting with the hellborn, but its infecting the pride ring sinners too. *then it turns out someone witness and recorded looser baby*. Now theres a pretty loud conversation about Angel's apparent secret soft daddy, and demand is going from annoying to picking at sales numbers and it's not going away.

Val *haaaaaaaates* this. Like. From a moral standpoint. He's into corruption and pain and non con and fucking up nice things. He's literally gagging, and maybe even seething inside because he might not want it with Angel but not being able to have it irks him

Angel and Husk are in fact not sleeping together (but want to)

Husk suddenly gets horny fans. He's not a fox hes a cat damn it. What the fuck is a grungy daddy. ANGEL STOP LAUGHING

Angel starts getting soft flirting as pick up lines and it's legit uncomfy as fuck for him

Val tries to make soft boy porn to various degrees with various people and not only does it suck he's actually throwing up in his mouth

Val: look, just fuck my bitch (who I know you are already fucking you cunt) in front of a camera while looking in his eyes and I will give you so much money. Husk: my contract literally forwards all my worldly possessions to Al that means nothing to me Val: *chews his own arm off*

Val: hey can I use your soul for a movie I'll give you money and women. Alastor: *pissing himself with uncomfortable laughter* Val: men?....

Husker: how about we play a little game. Every time you win I'll make a little film with Angel. But if I win you gimmie something I want

(Bonus if he loses some to escalete stakes up to souls. Double bonus to finding a work around to Al owning Angel. My top picks are Charlie being so aggressively thankful to Al helping to free Angel that he's peer pressured into releasing the contract, or Angel being so aggressively suggestive on what his contract is for that Al would rather break his chains than deal with that)

Alternate of above. Husk and Angel make unintentionally silly and loving amateur porn that just reeks of akward sentimentality. There's giggling and tickling and bad jokes and like *kissing* and bad angles and it's kinda terrible and wonderful and takes the internet by storm. It's on Angel's personal harddrive but that all technically belongs to Val per contract. In same spirit as above.

(Bonus round. If you dont understand poker, don't use is as a two person game.It's possible, but two person poker is a very unique beast. Poker is about the read. Early hands are used to get beads on people and judge attitudes and trends. Between two people, you end up folding +90% of hands until you have something. If you bet, the other person is judging you bluff, and they most the time fold. It's boring as fuck.

Husk's Overlord flashback sugests he and Alastor were playing Old Maid, a game still better with more people, but perfectly possible with two. Honestly one much easier to learn, easier to build tension with, and much better thematically for these kinds of stories. STOP USING POKER FOR INTENSE MOMENTS IF YOU DONT PLAY

Honestly two person poker would be a better game for Husk and Angel, as it gives space to bullshit between a dozen shit hands and folded bluffs as pots swing back and forth. Willingly building a pot and tricking someone into taking it is a pretty hard gamble to take ya know?)

#huskerdust #hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel husk #angel dust

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nellynee · 1 year ago

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A quick reminder to all you Huskerdust Overlord!AU sluts out there like me

That unless later changed, Angel dies in the 50's and Husk in the 70's

And that there's a very good chance Valentino dies in the 60's/70's as well.

Which means 1. Angel spent quite a bit of time not under Valentino and muuuuuuuuch more importantly

2. Angel could have met Husk as an Overlord before Valentino

Do with that as you will

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel husk #angel dust #huskerdust

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nellynee · 1 year ago

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I only retroactively realized I posted this on April fools but it's no joke. It's a little akwardly worded at times and has some misspellings but my feelings regarding still stand to this day

The makings of greatness, or why, as a ride or die Treasure Planet stan, I’m glad there’s no Treasure Plant 2

You ever see somethings that makes you unreasonably angry? Yes I understand exactly what I’m saying, and how that indicates that my emotions and opinions on this are exactly that. Opinions. There’s a good chance I have some objective truths mixed in, but that does not make my opinions based on those truths truth. If you disagree or have different tastes or opinions or interpretations, cool, let me know! maybe you’ll change my mind. That being said.

The plot synopsis for the Treasure Planet sequel makes me angry. Not like, actively so, just annoyed enough to be in a bad mood. And now you guys all have to be in one as well. Why?

Reason 1, and probably least important: Disney sequel syndrome.

Ok so Disney sequels aren’t inherently bad. I’ll stan the Aladdin sequels to my grave, who knew Cinderella could world build, obligatory Rescuers Down Under (the first one was better) blah blah blah.

But there is an inherit problem with sequels in general, and that usually has to do with cast and crew. An original piece of fiction has to grab the audience yes, but there’s also freedom in that. Media touches people in different way. The worldbuilding can mean more to some than others. Some are in it for the animation, or the character developments, or relationships. What connects with one person won’t connect with another. The problem with sequels is that different people who worked out the original material might and usually do not work on the new. And those new people are already working on that new material with their own personal lenses and experiences and interpretations coloring the old. The reason sequels (and remakes, and big budget presentations of other materials like books into movies) tend to bomb hard is because you are essentially being forced to accept someone’s fanfiction into the canon material. Usually, there’s a pretty strong correlation between more successful franchises/extension material, works staying true to the core material, original crew working on the material, and the enjoyment of the audience.

And sources say very few of the original crew remained. Some yes, but mostly voice cast. Even worse, TP2 was a DisneyToon production, not even a mainline feature. Now I’m not saying the new people weren’t talented, or passionate about the project, or were lacking in experience. It doesn’t really matter if any of those things are true or not. It’s the warping of their personal lenses I don’t trust. Fanfic I can disregard, meta I can disregard. This would have been canon.

And reading the Artbook makes is abundantly clear that the parts that touched me personally would have been missing. The very core of Treasure Planet for me was the relationship between Jim and Silver (and their exquisite animation budget). However you choose to interpret that relationship, you can not deny that Treasure Planet is a powerfully emotionally romantic movie. It’s quiet moments and emotional resonance shaped my views of intimacy with a sharp and fine touch. Silver and Jim’s bond is as undeniable and powerful as it is compelling and awe inspiring to witness unfold.

And a lot of that is owed not only to the voice acting of Joseph Gorden-Levitt (Jim) and Brian Murray (Silver), But to animators Glen Keane and John Ripa, who were the head animators of Silver and Jim respectively. Not only did Gorden-Levitt and Brian Murray deliver stunning performances, but made sure to work together and jointly play off each other in ways most voice actors don’t have the opportunity to do. And the Masters Keane and Ripa took an already stellar and carefully crafted vocal rapport and took it one step further. I highly recommend the Artbook as a good read, both Keane and Ripa talk about the journey of discovering who Jim and Silver were with delight, acting out entire scenes together using their own body language to build the characters together, using the same animation reals to animate, tag teaming in and out of the program rather than do it separately, becoming so attuned with their characters attitudes and mannerisms that you can tell they poured entire pieces of themselves into Jim and Silver.

I’m not saying the Sequel would have been inherently bad because it’s a sequel, or because a new crew worked on it, but I am saying I wouldn’t trust it with a ten foot pole.

Reason 2: Thanks I hate it (I’m saying it’s inherently bad because the plot is bad and I hate it)

I’m sorry for the length, but for you to really understand just how bad this is, I actually have to pick through every single line and tell you why it fails critically at some junctures and where it would be so simple to fix. For those of you who were unaware that there was a sequel in the works at some point, I’m pulling these quotes pretty much wholesale from the AnimateVeiws article Buried Treasure: The ill-fated voyage to Treasure Planet 2, specifically the interview with Jun Falkenstein who was set to direct the now canceled sequel. Spoiler warning, I guess?

So, from the begining

“The sequel was to pick up where the first film left off, with Jim Hawkins going to the Royal Interstellar Academy. At the Academy, he is a hotshot “natural,” but he doesn’t follow the rules very well.” - Strong start but then dropped the finish. I think the interstellar academy would be a very compelling starting point. I see no fault in it at least, it’s a good opportunity to world build. Clemence and Musket like to make a point that Jim was crafted to connect with the emotionally wounded and distant youth in a age of divorce, so showing what happens when that youth hikes up their britches and gets to work can extend on that theme aaaaaaand you dropped it. Dropped that strong start. Yes, Jim was more than a bit of a bite back rebel in the film, but that was a reactionary response to the bad place he started in. Jim was abandoned, and tied his self worth into that abandonment. His kickback against society was a reaction stemming from an inability to see his personal worth and any sort of future he could craft from it. He outgrew this, his very character development was about this in the film. His character arc was about realizing his inherent worth, embracing a sense of confidence and learning what he could do. Even disregarding that, bonus material outside of the film shows that Jim has a very strong sense of respect for Captain Amelia, her military career, and the hard work she put into it, and he’s there on her recommendation. Why would he act out in this? He is a natural yes, but the film shows he’s incredibly sharp and intelligent, if unlearned, and more than ready to learn given opportunity.

“Hence, he gets off to a shaky start – especially with his classmate Kate, who is very smart and has a type A personality. Kate’s father is Admiral Blake, the Commander of the Navy. Jim and Kate vie for top of the class but have very different skills.” - So building off this to fix the problem before. I guess the dynamic they are going for is something like “the kind of a jerk hotshit hotshot who’s got it all figured out and the straight laced rule fallowing stick in the ass rival”? I’m not apposed to to a rivalry, but lets tweak this, given how “hot shot natural jerk” isn’t really where Jim settles at the end of the film. Jim is a natural talent, who excels under tutelage, but more importantly, he has practical experience. While the time period spent on the RLS Legacy is not defined, they do sail to a deep and unexplored part of the galaxy, probably well outside of regular settlements, so no small distance, though Jim is young enough that a very long period of time would be noted in physical growth. Given comparisons to classic nautical sailing of the source time, months, perhaps up to a year? That’s a long time to spend, learning the rough and tumble basics, tying knots, experiencing food and water rations, extreme temperatures, playing with the rigging and mechanical aspects of the boat. Jim knows what it’s like to actually sail. Meanwhile, this is the Royal Academy, who probably takes in upper class second born children and pumps out military accolades for well learned mathematicians and strategists. Jim doesn’t fit in because he can visualize, he can think outside of the box, he can weld a damn engine to a hunk of shrapnel and ignite it freefalling against a metal hellscape and outrace a boat in a high adrenaline situation. He adapts where the other’s frantically look through their notes for the answer. Worse yet, he’s poor and not classically educated. Make it a class issue. In this aspect I do like Kate. Being the Daughter of the Commander of the Navy, she probably has a very technical and far more expansive understanding of navel ships, particularly the running of them. In this way Jim and Kate are perfect foils. Jim representing the poor, instinctually and practically knowledgeable crew, and Kate the upper-class, technically knowledgeable command, a dichotomy representing the haves and have nots in their skills, experiences, an class.

I don’t want to post a picture and break the post, but I do love Kate’s design. I do recommend looking up the article and checking it out. that being said, being a feline species, they messed up not spelling it Cate.

“Captain Amelia is dean of the Academy, which has a brand-new vessel: the Centurion.” - I… why, why is Amelia the dean? Additional material shows that Amelia broke ties with the military because she didn’t like their rule stickling ways and red tape. Why would she want a red tape position? She helped with a war and then bailed first opportunity to become a freelance captain so she could fallow her own rules. Even if you don’t know any of that additional material, you do know that she is a freelance captain. Why is she dean? what happened to the old one? Are they dead? Did DisneyToon kill them? Did Disneytoon kill the old dean?

“Designed by Doctor Doppler, the Centurion is the fastest ship in the galaxy.” - HE’S NOT THAT KIND OF DOCTOR!

“B.E.N. is its pilot”. - NO

In all seriousness all three of those statements show a serious problem, in that none of those characters are in fact those things. Amelia I’ve already explained. But Doppler was a debatably youngish bachelor with too much money who was fascinated by astronomy specifically and who suffered from ennui. And BEN was a navigational unit, so maybe it makes sense for him to be a pilot, but why is a robot who was functioning under a galaxy feared pirate for who knows how long given any kind of agency over a brand new incredibly important ship? These decisions were probably made to incorporate as much of the old cast as possible, to not exclude fan faves. But any decision that makes BEN a prominent part of the plot and thus gets more screen time is a BAD one.

“The pirate Ironbeard desires to commandeer the Centurion. This ruthless villain is relatively all iron – almost nothing of whom he originally was, inside and out, is left.” - On the one hand, I have a weird feeling that this would somehow violate the 30-70 rule. Buuuuut on the other hand, the Artbook does describe the decision making process of what and how was mechanical on Silver (my favorite tidbit was the wheel on his head representing his constant thinking and assessing) and states that that they in a way represent the pieces of humanity he gave up looking for Flint’s Trove. Extending that to a pirate who has given up everything could be a powerful thematic tool if used right (or intentionally)

“He leads a group of pirates to hijack the Centurion while Jim and Kate are aboard.” - ok, yeah, I’ll buy that. If they are butting heads constantly, I could see them sneaking off to the new piece of hardware to one up each other on who knows their stuff, or maybe bond over wanting to learn about the said new tech and being frustrated with restrictions.

“The Navy can’t catch the Centurion, due to the vessel’s speed and armor.”- sure

“Jim and Kate escape the Centurion. Jim decides he needs a pirate to help catch pirates. They find his old buddy Long John Silver in the Lagoon Nebula, where he is running a smuggling ring. “ - So what Jim just goes “I know just the pirate to help us” and then finds him? That journey of itself deserves it’s own movie, anything less is a disappointment. Alternative. Jim and Kate escape onto a particularly lawless planet. Jim has some tricks to keep them safe and fed, maybe he even excels in ways he’s been straight up stop gapped at the academy. Maybe his knowhow is appreciated by others who society also rejects. But Kate is a frustrating fish out of water, getting offended and worked up over things that are big deals to an average citizen but not criminals and pirates. But such reactions are putting them in danger and she needs to get perspective fast. It’s plausible maybe that Silver tracks them down through interesting rumors, but more than that, let it be fate. Neither having any idea the other is there till the second they see each other. Bonus points if Jim and Kate get in a bind and Silver is the leader of the harassers. Better yet lets add some thematic mirroring not only to the scene where Silver saved Jim from Scroop, but directly contrast it to the scene where Silver doubled back and down against the notion of caring for Jim when called out before the mutiny. *kisses finger* Touching and hilarious.

“ Silver agrees to help when he hears about the Centurion. “ - Silver agrees to help when he hears about the Centurion without Jim even having to ask. Storywise, lets make some kind of deal over how Jim, an upstanding enrollee of the academy, apparently is chummy with a pirate. Tension doesn’t just have to be external, and Kate is the daughter of the Commander of the Army. Maybe she’s recognized and this gets them in trouble. Maybe Kate has issues with her identity outside of her father’s career and need to learn a lesson about being outside of a rigid social structure?

“Jim and Kate receive a tracking signal from B.E.N. – who is currently hostage aboard the Centurion – and follow via Silver’s creaky vessel. They discover the Centurion docked near the Botany Bay Prison Asteroid. “ - While being the fastest ship yet is a good excuse for wanting it to get stolen, my suspension of disbelief breaks a little at any ship, let alone a creaky little pirate vessel, catching up to the fastest ship yet, or the tracking signal being the only way to track it to a guarded prison. Seeing as how I’ve written BEN out of this scenario lets fix it. After the events of the movie, the Royal Military swoops in after to confiscate the debris of Treasure Planet. For those in the know, canon lore states that the Planet was a giant computer, and it and the map were the byproducts of an ancient and advanced civilization. Studying the debris led to the Centurion, notable not for it’s speed, but for it’s stealth. It can cloak itself. Which is why no-one can find it. Meanwhile Silver lets it slip that he snagged the map from it’s pedestal as they escaped the planet as a souvenir. (handwave why the portal was still open with a “the whole thing was exploding, the computer froze). The map is able to track the remnants of said planet, aka the Centurion, meaning Silver has the only means of tracking the cloaked ship

“Ironbeard is using the Centurion to disable Botany Bay’s security systems. Jim, Kate and Silver sneak aboard the Centurion, where Silver reveals to Jim that he wants to take the Centurion for himself. He asks Jim to join him.“ YES. YES YES YES YES YES YES! Understanding that Jim’s decision to not go with Silver in the first movie is key here. He rejected Silver’s offer the first time because Silver had shown him he had intrinsic value, and Jim finally felt that the natural gifts he had were worth cultivating, that he did have the chance to explore who he could be on his own terms. Jim was comfortable being on his own, because he felt capable. Now, Jim and Silver bring out the best in each other, and the time apart has done them harm. Jim’s strings of social rejections are starting to fell like a glass ceiling he can’t overcome, and is finding more and more comfort in being a big fish in a pirates small pond, and the emotions of of being wanted that come with Silver is a powerful drug. But it’s a one way ticket away from any opportunities he could work towards, not to mention his barely repaired relationship with his mother. Meanwhile Silver has been slowly slipping back into the colder, more selfish self he was, a necessity for his lifestyle, and doesn’t want to loose his connection to Jim and what Jim brings out in him, but is still far enough gone to make the offer and try for the boat anyways, even if he knows it’s not what’s best. It’s an emotionally compelling decision. You want them to say yes, you know they shouldn’t

“Kate overhears this and is horrified, especially since the two have, of course, started falling for each other during the adventure.” - Hate. this I hate. Leaving shipping to they way side, what’s that “of course”? why do they have to fall for each other? Why the Disneytoon sequel love interest? I have a feeling her characterization would come at the cost of it. Why can’t they be rivals? why can’t they develop a mutual respect outside of attraction? Why can’t they both learn an individualized lesson about finding their own place in the world outside of social constraints as foils without macking? I hate this concept. Kate overhears, and is horrified, because Silver is a Pirate which is actually in universe get yourself hanged offense, and Jim is considering this, and they are going to steal a VERY IMPORTANT BOAT and and leave her stranded in a dagerous prison, and are making an objectively morally bad decision.

“Ironbeard discovers the intruders, charging into a fight in which Silver is injured. Meanwhile, the other pirates throw down ladders to the prison below, allowing swarms of elated prisoners to climb up into the ship. Silver, Jim, and Kate exit the Centurion amidst all the confusion. However, Ironbeard shoots down Silver’s ship. They plummet to the prison asteroid below, crash-landing” - cool. Drama. But for my purposes, lets tweak it so Silver isn’t injured yet. But I really want to emphasize that this attack does not interrupt before Jim can react to Silver’s offer. Even something as tentative as “I’m not sure” has consequences. None of this “misunderstanding” BS.

“ Kate is angry at Jim and storms off. “- again, make it clear that Jim showed a real chance of agreeing to steal the ship. if she’s angry before he had a chance to answer that’s contrivance for drama’s sake. Give her a reason to be mad

“ Jim is about to blow her off as well when Silver tells him to give her a chance. He reveals a part of his past through a flashback, when a young (non-cyborg) Silver screwed up a relationship with the love of his life – a decision which directly led to his life of piracy. “ - nope. nope nope nope . I’m gonna put a big old * here because this is reason number 3 why I hate this potential movie, and I will get to that believe me, but here’s me, putting a pin in it. That being said, have Silver selfishly try to double down on getting Jim to join him in a three way argument instead. This is the conflict of the film. Kate, who was learning to grow outside of the strict restrictions of her life and do her own work, make her own way, is being rejected. She is as morally repulsed as she is hurt that she wasn’t included, and hates herself for that hurt as well. Jim is torn between the freedom of what he could be after the academy paired with the strict social constructs around it, and the freedom of a life “full of himself and no ties to anyone” but running from the law and the two friends they represent. Silver is the aggressor here. He likes Kate, he does, but he loves Jim and only has one place in his heart, and has spent his life being selfish. There’s already a crew on board, and Iron beard is hooked into the Centurion. With having the only other means to navigate, they take down ironbeard, the rest will surely fall in line. This is paydirt. A fantastic ship, a bloodthirsty crew, and Jim.

“Silver has a very dangerous cargo with him that he had been trying to smuggle and sell for a fortune, which has the power of a neutron bomb. Jim, Kate and Silver reconcile and work together to fix Silver’s ship and prevent the Centurion, filled with the most evil pirates in the galaxy, from going on an insane robbing-and-killing spree. At the last second, Silver reluctantly gives up his “retirement fund” in order to destroy the Centurion, with Ironbeard and all the pirates on board.” - this entire section needs rewritten. That’s a mcguffin Silver put it away. I have retconned the mcguffin to be the old map, so that is now moot. Now to not blow up the ship. Afterall, Silver and Jim have both already overcome what Treasure Planet represented with it’s destruction. Rather, B plot

If we are that desperate to have past characters in, let’s have Amelia and Delbert back home. When the Centurion is captured, Amelia immediately volunteers to fallow, feeling responsible for Jim and secretly pining for some adventure. Delbert feels the same, and he to a bit of an adrenaline junkie after the events of the first movie, but they have the children to think about and only one can leave. Delbert is the one chosen to help by the navy officials searching for the Centurion. While Amelia bickers with the Admiral Blake over his pragmatic but emotionally distant decisions over the situation of his missing daughter, Delbert is an astronomer, and is blah blah blah science meta, fallow the flashing and bending lights around the cloaked ship to find it. As in Delbert is helpful. Amelia in a reflation to Admiral Blake, is torn between her family and commandeering her own ship to help. Blake is frustratingly headstrong in his decisions, and the script makes it seem like that emotional distance is disinterests, but reveals to the audience that it incorporates a great deal of suppression of his anxieties and worries over his daughter, and trust in her abilities, though he has issues expressing this pride to Kate herself. Amelia, Delbert and fam make what is probably a poor decision in commandeering a ship and leaving on their own to track the Centurion, the navy hot on their heels.

Back to A plot, the navy is approaching. Jim has to make a decision. He is the only one who knows how to unmask the ship using the old ones tech without training, as it’s based off the map. While Kate and Silver are distracting iron beard, he has to either steal the ship and sail off, or uncloak it for the navy. Iron beard is taken down, but not without Silver getting injured. Jim decides that Silver’s life is worth more than anything, and after agreeing with Kate that she’ll commandeer a doctor and wont let Silver die, uncloaks the ship. The Centurion is retaken in a blaze of naval glory that is the action climax. The pirates fight back up are over run. Maybe Kate gets taken hostage as the Admirals daughter, as an opportunity for a resolution with her arc as Blake’s distant daughter, though obviously said resolution comes at her showing her abilities in taking care of herself and the practical skills she has learned.

“Silver again parts from Jim and Kate, telling them to take care of each other. A few years later, Jim and Kate graduate with honors, while a proud Silver secretly watches from the shadows, smiling” - Boooooo. Kate and her dad make up, and she challenges him that she’s going to one day Captain the Centurion, with him understanding that she needs less a mentor and more an emotional support while she works her way up the ranks. She invites Jim to be her first mate, to which Jim accepts as a navigator, (a thing I’ve pointed out to be his real strength in another post). But to Silver, who has been “pardoned” for his part in retaking the Centurion, the movie hinting that he to would be on the eventual crew there I fixed it fic to come I s2g.

yeah there’s a lot of good there, but it’s so easy to fix the bad it’s frustrating. which brings me to

Reason 3: that little pin

Nope nope nope I’ll tell you why.

First of all, sources like the artbook say that Jim is so Important to Silver because he’s the first person Silver has ever let become important. he’s specifically stated to have no family, never married, no children. And that’s something he cultivated actively. His life of piracy, his metal limbs, his loneliness and moral failings were all gleefully accumulated for one reason and one reason only

Treasure Planet.

Treasure Planet was the great love of Silver’s life. It was a lifelong obsession. It destroyed his body, took his youth, his opportunities and nearly his life. He broke Jim’s heart over it.

And he let it go. For Jim.

And Jim understood this

This is the crux of treasure planet’s very themes. This is where Jim found self worth. Another person finally looked at him and said “you matter, you matter more than anything. I like being around you and I choose you first.” and it made Jim realize he’s someone worth choosing.

The treasure was EVERYTHING to Silver, and Silver let it go, for Jim.

That one line there, attributing the start of Silver’s fall to a girl? that actively retcons the entire theme of the previous movie. IT rewrite the emotional linchpin of Silver’s sacrifice of the gold. And actually fuck that. right into the ground. I do not accept. I do not pass go. I refuse. Fuck you non existent movie. That makes me mad. every single time. Hate I shall never let go.

#treasure planet #Self reblog

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