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no-idea-for-a-cool-name · 2 months ago

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Putting aside that I personally think the ruler of the north has to be either Bran or Jon, I think you're completely mischaracterizing Arya. Basically all you arguments are plainly untrue.

Sorry in advance for the length but I really need to adress everything you're saying on this post. Feel free to not read it but I need to vent and I have time to waste.

Her whole arc and purpose as a character is about being a warrior

False. If her arc was about being a warrior you would think GRRM would've made her develop the skills of a warrior, yet he hasn't. Her martial training was extremely short and the actual skills GRRM is making her develop are mostly intellectual. She's learning to be observant, to analyze situations, to use manipulation, to read people, to speak multiple lenguages, she's not learning how to be a warrior at all.

about freedom, and about rejecting traditional roles like nobility, marriage, and ruling. That’s just not who she is.

Exactly! She's all about the feedom to reject traditional roles. Now the part ehere you lie is when listing ruling as a traditional role for a woman. It simply isn't, women are not expected to rule, so if Arya were to become queen or have a powerful position in nobility, she would absolutely be challenging traditional roles and using her freedom.

Arya isn’t patient or interested in politics or mind games. That doesn’t mean she’s not smart or that she can’t play the game. She absolutely can. But she’s just not interested in it.

And since when is this book about characters doing only what they like to do? If she has the capacity and feels she has the responsibility, she would absolutely do it. It's a common misconception about Arya that she would escape responsibilities but she actually has a tendency to feel responsible for things even when she shouldn't. Like how she took the responsibility for her pack's safety and risked her life multiple times to save other people.

She’s more of a "let’s settle it with a sword" kind of girl

False, she has no chance to defeat anyone with a sword and she knows this. Obviously she has her moments of impulsivity and stupidity just like every single character, but in serious situations, she knows when to act and when to keep her head down:

“A broken lip taught Arya to hold her tongue.”

"On the road Arya had felt like a sheep, but Harrenbal turned her into a mouse. She was grey as a mouse in her scratchy wool shift, and like a mouse she kept to the crannies and crevices and dark holes of the castle, scurrying out of the way of the mighty."

"Arya hated being left behind like she was some stupid child, but at least Gendry had been kept back as well. She knew better than to try and argue. This was battle, and in battle you had to obey."

Arya fights for survival, for revenge, and for herself.

Revenge and survival are motives for Arya, true, but so are love, compassion and justice. Notice how almost every person of her list hurt other people, not her. Notice how during the walk to Harrenhall she hated herself for not being able to save other people. Notice how she risked her life multiple times to save others. Her character does have a lot of darkness but she also has a lot of light.

She never wanted power, titles, or responsibility.

False. We literally have asking Ned this:

"Can I be a king's councillor and build castles and become the High Septon?"

What she doesn't like are the traditional noble roles forced on women, but she does have interest in roles that involve power.

We also see her taking advantage of her position as a noble:

"I'm not a boy," she spat at them. "I'm Arya Stark of Winterfell, and if you lay a hand on me my lord father will have both your heads on spikes. If you don't believe me, fetch Jory Cassel or Vayon Poole from the Tower of the Hand." She put her hands on her hips. "Now are you going to open the gate, or do you need a clout on the ear to help your hearing?"

If the Mummers catch us, I'll tell them that I'm Ned Stark's daughter and sister to the King in the North. I'll command them to take me to my brother, and to do no harm to Hot Pie and Gendry.

Not to mention that basically her entire story is about going back home which is the same as her trying to go back to her life as a noble.

The argument that Arya is tied to Northern politics because people fight for her or because of the "Weasel Soup" moment really misses the point. Yes, she was part of those moments, but they weren’t about her stepping into a leadership role—they were about her surviving and helping the people around her. She didn’t do it with some grand vision of ruling the North. She did it because she had to.

You're right that the weasel soup is not an example of Arya making a political move with some grand vision behind, but in my opinion, the point of it is not to show Arya being a super politician and leader, but to show that she had the charisma and intelliigence to maybe one day hhave those roles.

NONE of the Stark kids except Jon made any clearly strategic political move, so either you think that Jon should rule the north (which reading the comments you made doesn't seem to be the case) or you're applying some major double standards in order to dismiss Arya and support you personal wish.

As for Nymeria leading a wolf pack that attacks Freys and Boltons—that’s not Arya playing politics. That’s a reflection of her subconscious, her rage. It’s poetic, sure,

Once again you're purposely missing the point. No one says Nymeria killing Stark enemies is a shroud political move from Arya, what we´re saying is that considering the direwolves reflect their owner, it seems very telling that Arya's wolf happens to be named after a female ruler and is the leader of a wolf army. Adding that Arya perfectly fits Varys speech about the ideal ruler and that she has a lot of intellect and charisma, the option of her becoming some sort of leader seems very likely. I can't say it's foreshadow as of now, but it definitely feels like a very strong foreshadow.

but it’s not Arya making strategic moves like Sansa does.

I'm sorry but what strategic move has Sansa done?

and yes, arya admired her father, but not as a ruler. She never once expressed a desire to follow in his footsteps as Lord of Winterfell.

Yes she did:

Her father used to say that a lord needed to eat with his men, if he hoped to keep them. "Know the men who follow you," she heard him tell Robb once, "and let them know you. Don't ask your men to die for a stranger." At Winterfell, he always had an extra seat set at his own table, and every day a different man would be asked to join him. One night it would be Vayon Poole, and the talk would be coppers and bread stores and servants. The next time it would be Mikken, and her father would listen to him go on about armor and swords and how hot a forge should be and the best way to temper steel. Another day it might be Hullen with his endless horse talk, or Septon Chayle from the library, or Jory, or Ser Rodrik, or even Old Nan with her stories.

Arya had loved nothing better than to sit at her father's table and listen to them talk. She had loved listening to the men on the benches too; to freeriders tough as leather, courtly knights and bold young squires, grizzled old men-at-arms. She used to throw snowballs at them and help them steal pies from the kitchen. Their wives gave her scones and she invented names for their babies and played monsters-and-maidens and hide-the-treasure and come-into-my-castle with their children. Fat Tom used to call her "Arya Underfoot," because he said that was where she always was. She'd liked that a lot better than "Arya Horseface."

He has a lord's face, that's all, she told herself. She remembered hearing her lady mother tell Father to put on his lord's face and go deal with some matter. Father had laughed at that. She could not imagine Lord Tywin ever laughing at anything.

I should kill them myself. Whenever her father had condemned a man to death, he did the deed himself with Ice, his greatsword. "If you would take a man's life, you owe it to him to look him in the face and hear his last words," she'd heard him tell Robb and Jon once.

Granted, she's not explicitly saying "I want to be lord of Winterfell like my father, but look at those quotes from a literary perpective, Why did GRRM bothered to add them? Why does Arya remember so much about Ned's rulership style even when she's not meant to rule and is not the one he was giving those lessons to? I feel like GRRM would not add stuff like that just to waste page space.

She loved him for his justice, not his politics. The argument that she was "always interested in ruling" is just headcanon. She observed him, yes, but that doesn’t mean she wanted his role.

I agree with you that Arya has not shown a desire to rule, but that's no reason to dismiss her. Once again, if that was the case, you would agree with me that only Bran and Jon are the options to rule Winterfell since they're the only Stark siblings to express a desire to do so, but since it seems like you're advocating for Sansa who not once has expressed any desire to rule, I have no option but to, again, assume that you're just being hypocritical and using double standards to fit your personal wish.

If anything, the times she did lead a group (like in A Clash of Kings) only showed how much she struggled with it. She doesn’t want that burden. The problem isn’t that I "don’t want her to care about it"—it’s that she doesn’t care about it.

False. She does struggle with the burden, but it's evident she naturally takes it. That she doesn't care about it is false, she evidently cares if she's willing to make herself responsible for other people's safety despite having zero obligation to do so.

Arya is happiest when she’s on the road, with Needle, or with Nymeria, not when she’s in a castle ruling over people.

False. So very false. Arya's happiest memories are about her time at Winterfell. She did enjoy some travels but always with Winterfell as her home. Her whole story is about her desperately trying to put an end to her travels and going back home, and her happiest time since her life went to hell was her time as Cat, a time when she had a relatively stable life, with a stable job and food and a roof. And even the she was ready to ditch the whole thing as soon as she saw a chance to go back to her family:

And the singer should be on the Wall. When Dareon had first appeared at the Happy Port, Arya had almost asked if he would take her with him back to Eastwatch, until she heard him telling Bethany that he was never going back.

And that’s okay. She’s not meant to be Queen in the North, because that would go against everything she’s been built up to be.

False. As I've stated a few times before, having a position of authority, queen or some other noble role, would fit perfectly with a female character designed taking after feminists who fought for women to have equal opportunities as men. Arya obtaining a role that is normally forbidden to women seem like what her character is designed for.

Sansa being Queen in the North has far more buildup than Arya ever ruling anything.

How so? She has never expressed any desire to rule (no, being a queen corsort is not the same as being a ruler). She's never had any big responsibility. She's never shown leadership over powerful people. She still can't understand a lot of thing around her and can't even face ugly truths. She's learning about politics but she hasn't made any political move yet. And she's learning about reading people and being observant but so is Arya.

I'm not saying Sansa can't end up as queen or in a position of power, but what exactly makes you think she's so much more like than her siblings to become the ruler of the north? Preferably, I would prefer you used arguments that didn't rely on double standards.

Arya’s entire arc is about rejecting nobility and traditional power structures, while Sansa’s is about learning how to navigate them.

False. As I've said quite a few times already, Arya has never rejected nobility or traditional power. What she rejected was the role forced on women.

Even the way they survive is different—Arya through direct action and violence,

False. Arya survived as long as she did mostly because of her being extremely observant, adaptable, and easily underestimated.

It was the scariest thing she'd ever done. She wanted to run and hide, but she made herself walk across the yard, slowly, putting one foot in front of the other as if she had all the time in the world and no reason to be afraid of anyone. She thought she could feel their eyes, like bugs crawling on her skin under her clothes. Arya never looked up. If she saw them watching, all her courage would desert her, she knew, and she would drop the bundle of clothes and run and cry like a baby, and then they would have her. She kept her gaze on the ground. By the time she reached the shadow of the royal sept on the far side of the yard, Arya was cold with sweat, but no one had raised the hue and cry.

Two of the guardsmen were dicing together while the third walked rounds, his hand on the pommel of his sword. Ashamed to let them see her crying like a baby, she stopped to rub at her eyes. Her eyes her eyes her eyes, why did …

Look with your eyes, she heard Syrio whisper.

Arya looked. She knew all of her father's men. The three in the grey cloaks were strangers. "You," the one walking rounds called out. "What do you want here, boy?" The other two looked up from their dice.

These are only a few examples of her surviving because of her intellect.

Sansa through political maneuvering. Sansa is already acting as a politician in later books/show,

How is Sansa acting as a politician?

and she has the strongest claim among the Stark siblings.

False. Bran is the one with the strongest claim. If we talk about what the characters know, Sansa might be the one with the biggest claim in Littlefingers point of view, but if we ask regular northeners they would say Arya has the strongest claim, And Stannis would say Jon does, And Manderly would say Rickon does. Saying Sansa has the strongest claim is factually wrong.

At the end of the day, dismissing Sansa completely while insisting Arya has foreshadowing just feels like selective reasoning rather than a solid argument.

You seriously don't realize that this is exactly what you are doing but swapping Arya and Sansa?

but the key difference is that Sansa wants it. As a child, she dreamed of being a queen,

No she doesn't. Show me one quote where Sansa expresses a desire to rule. Not to be a queen consort which was mostly related to the glamour, show me she genuinely wants to govern.

As she grows, she realizes the weight of responsibility,

Show me one quote when Sansa realizes what a huge responsibility ruling is and accepts it

but that doesn’t mean she won’t take it on. She will want to serve the North and protect it from a foreign ruler

because her entire arc is about returning home and realizing that’s where she belonged all along.

Just like the arcs of every single Stak kid. Again, double standards everywhere.

and since her marriage to tyrion was never consummated, it could be declared null and void under Westerosi law. Maybe Rickon won’t die like in the show, but Bran will likely remain the Three-Eyed Raven and won’t rule. And no, I didn’t dismiss Arya’s connections to the North—I just never saw them as foreshadowing her becoming queen, because that simply doesn’t fit her arc. Arya represents the smallfolk more than the nobility. She is not a ruler or a leader—she is a lone wolf, free, wild, and drawn to adventure. Keeping her in a castle, whether as Queen of Winterfell or worse as a lord’s wife, would take away what makes her Arya.

Sorry but this is still dismissing Arya. And dismissing all the other Stark kids. You're twisting canon story and characters in order to support your wish of Sansa as queen.

Arya loves her family—she’s always yearned for connection like you said—but that doesn’t mean she’s suited for ruling or that she wants it.

What would being "suited for ruling" be for you?

Loving your pack and wanting to govern are two completely different things.

Yet you want a character who has never said she wants to govern to become a governer. Make it make sense.

She admires her parents’ love, sure, but that doesn’t mean she wants to settle into a traditional role.

Just because she doesn't want to be a submiissive wife does not mean she would have a love life. I doubt GRRM wrote all the romantic build up between her and Gendry only to say romance doesn't matter to her at all.

And yes, I do think she’d fight a war and then leave for an adventure.

Evidence?

Nymeria is her role model

Nymeria doesn't roam though, she made one travel out of necessity and then settled in one place. And ruled it.

.Arya connects with the Faceless Men and the idea of shedding identities because she doesn’t want to be boxed in.

She doesn't connect to it at all, she's clearly staying with the FM because she feels she has no better place to go. I'm starting to think you didn't eve read her chapters.

Also, dismissing the show’s Arya as entirely separate from the books is wrong. While D&D mishandled her arc, Arya leaving to explore isn’t something they pulled out of nowhere—the books already set up her love for adventure and discovery.

If you claim this, the point me the textual evidence that supports Arya leaving to explore. Prove that it doesn't come out of nowhere.

Also, for Arya to become Queen in the North, that would mean Sansa, Bran, and Rickon all have to be out of the picture. She’s the youngest sibling, and by Westerosi standards, she has the weakest claim to the throne. Plus, I think people often see being a king or queen as the “happy ending” of a character arc, and that’s just so wrong. The happiest any character in ASOIAF can be is away from the game—away from the burden of ruling.

It's funny you say this when you're perfectly fine taking almost all the Starks out of the picture so that Sansa, a character with a weaker claim and who does not want to rule, can be queen. It's so disingenuous of you to pretend to care about anything other than you own wishful thinking.

I saw a post on TikTok saying Arya is the Stark sibling with the most foreshadowing in the books to become Queen in the North. And I completely disagree. Her whole arc and purpose as a character is about being a warrior, about freedom, and about rejecting traditional roles like nobility, marriage, and ruling. That’s just not who she is.

Unlike Nymeria—who Arya sees as a role model—Arya isn’t patient or interested in politics or mind games. That doesn’t mean she’s not smart or that she can’t play the game. She absolutely can. But she’s just not interested in it. She’s more of a "let’s settle it with a sword" kind of girl—and I love her for that. I wouldn’t change her for the world.

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no-idea-for-a-cool-name · 2 months ago

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❄️ An Anime of Ice and Fire 🔥

Part 50 - Gendry

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no-idea-for-a-cool-name · 2 months ago

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I strongly disagree that "lady Arya" would be a disservice to her character for a number of reasons.

1. Reducing her to just an assassin is what I would consider a disservice. What would be the point of making her one of the very few noble characters who cares about the smallfolk if she won't end up in a position of power that allows her to help them? What would be the point of training her in various intellectual skills that would allow her to navigate politocal situations if she's only meant to go stab-stab at people? Her training, education, and skillset is way to sofisticated as to end up as a mere murderer.

2. She is not a warrior. She could be, if she eventually finds another water dancing master and trains for a few years, and I can see her learning to use a bow and arrow within the story, but with the training she has right now she's no warrior at all. All her kills relied on her being quick, intelligent, and easily underestimated precisely because she's too physically weak as to openly confront someone.

3. Arya already is a lady and will always be simply because she's the daughter of a lord. While it might be traditionally associate with certain traits, "lady" is not a personality, it's merely a title of nobility that Arya will always have.

4. Being a lady does not have to mean Arya has to be traditionally ladylike like Sansa, we have in-universe examples of women who were nobles AND had unconventional, fulfilling lives, like the Mormont women or Nymeria who was a war commander and a ruler. If there's a precedent, what would stop Arya from being her real unconventional self while staying in nobility.

4. Arya's never showed any true desire of abandoning nobility, she contemplated other choices a few times but if was only when she felt she had no way to return home. Going back home and to her family has always being her goal. And she also showed interest in positions of nobility when she asked Ned whether she could be a high septon or build castles or be a king's councillor. What sets her apart from most ladies is not a desire to be a commoner, it's a desire to be treated as an equal to men.

5. Vanishing Arya from nobility when she never wanted that is a kind of sexist message in my opinion. Arya's character was modelled after feminists GRRM knew, and feminism was not build so that women who oppose restrictive gender norms have to abandon society, they strive to change society to make woman have a bigger place in it. I think Arya should challenge Westeros' sexism not be chased away by it.

6. Despite popular belief, Arya craves stability, which is why going back home has been her goal throughout the books and why she's staying with the FM, she might have enjoyed travelling a a holiday of sorts but she does not enjoy wandering around permanently or being away from the people she cares about.

7. Being a noble does not mean Arya can't interact with all sorts of different people and travel around, she travelled with Ned to white Harbor and when she remembers Ned's lessons about rulership she thinks about all the people who travelled through Winterfell she met.

I'm not claiming to have the absolute truth, just listing my reasons for disagreeing. I'm also not saying Arya will be queen or that she can't have the ending you said or have a tragic ending, I just think her, Bran and Sansa are the most likely characters to get a positive ending. Mostly because they've been through hell for the whole story and their chapters seem like pure build up.

Where do you think book Arya's arc is heading?

i have never once posted about arya so this is definitely bait but yum yum im a hungry fish

one thing off the bat i think any "lady arya" ending would lowkey be a disservice to her character. she's the warrior maid! she's a tomboy! she's an assassin! she's incredibly well traveled for her age and has spent the most time rubbing elbows with the smallfolk! her storyline is about exploration, underdogs, and many faces, that she both meets and adopts.

it really depends on how apocalyptic the targ invasion and long night ends up being. i don't really see her being the master of arms to queen in the north sansa, but i also don't see her becoming queen in the north herself. a roaming hedge knight/bounty hunter/wolf pack leader seems more likely, and its in line with how her storyline has gone so far. but honestly im no grrm and i don't think my ideas are for sure going to happen, i just really hate a lot of popular arya endings

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no-idea-for-a-cool-name · 3 months ago

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Art by mourningstorms

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no-idea-for-a-cool-name · 3 months ago

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himbo!gendry/dumb!gendry? i don't know him...

Look with your eyes, Arya wanted to shout at the men below. "Can't they see we're no lords or knights?" she whispered. "I don't think they care, Arry," Gendry whispered back. And she looked at Ser Amory's face, the way Syrio had taught her to look, and she saw that he was right.

The air was full of birds, crows mostly. From afar, they were no larger than flies as they wheeled and flapped above the thatched roofs. To the east, Gods Eye was a sheet of sun-hammered blue that filled half the world. Some days, as they made their slow way up the muddy shore (Gendry wanted no part of any roads, and even Hot Pie and Lommy saw the sense in that), Arya felt as though the lake were calling her. She wanted to leap into those placid blue waters, to feel clean again, to swim and splash and bask in the sun. But she dare not take off her clothes where the others could see, not even to wash them.

"If there's people, there's food," Hot Pie said, too loudly. Gendry was always telling him to be more quiet, but it never did any good. "Might be they'd give us some." "Might be they'd kill us too," Gendry said. "Not if we yielded," Hot Pie said hopefully.

Hot Pie agreed. "They told Yoren to open the gates, they told him in the king's name. You have to do what they tell you in the king's name. It was that stinky old man's fault. If he'd of yielded, they would have left us be." Gendry frowned. "Knights and lordlings, they take each other captive and pay ransoms, but they don't care if the likes of you yield or not." He turned to Arya. "What else did you see?"

Gendry squinted up at the sun. "Evenfall will be the best time to sneak in. I'll go scout come dark.""No, I'll go," Arya said. "You're too noisy."Gendry got that look on his face. "We'll both go." "Arry should go," said Lommy. "He's sneakier than you are."

"He's going to die, and the sooner he does it, the better for the rest of us. We should just leave him, like he says. If it was you or me hurt, you know he'd leave us." They scrambled down a steep cut and up the other side, using roots for handholds. "I'm sick of carrying him, and I'm sick of all his talk about yielding too. If he could stand up, I'd knock his teeth in. Lommy's no use to anyone. That crying girl's no use either." "You leave Weasel alone, she's just scared and hungry is all." Arya glanced back, but the girl was not following for once. Hot Pie must have grabbed her, like Gendry had told him. "She's no use," Gendry repeated stubbornly. "Her and Hot Pie and Lommy, they're slowing us down, and they're going to get us killed. You're the only one of the bunch who's good for anything. Even if you are a girl."

But Jaqen H'ghar still smiled. His garb was still ragged and filthy, but he had found time to wash and brush his hair. It streamed down across his shoulders, red and white and shiny, and Arya heard the girls giggling to each other in admiration. I should have let the fire have them. Gendry said to, I should have listened. If she hadn't thrown them that axe they'd all be dead. For a moment she was afraid, but they rode past her without a flicker of interest. Only Jaqen H'ghar so much as glanced in her direction, and his eyes passed right over her. He does not know me, she thought. Arry was a fierce little boy with a sword, and I'm just a grey mouse girl with a pail.

"Never mind about Ser Lyonel." He drew her aside by the arm. "Last night Hot Pie asked me if I heard you yell Winterfell back at the holdfast, when we were all fighting on the wall." "Everyone was yelling stuff," Arya said defensively. "Hot Pie yelled hot pie. He must have yelled it a hundred times." "It's what you yelled that matters. I told Hot Pie he should clean the wax out of his ears, that all you yelled was Go to hell! If he asks you, you better say the same."

"Maybe there won't be a lot of them.""If there's two, that's too many for you and me. You never learned nothing in that village, did you? You try this and Vargo Hoat will cut off your hands and feet, the way he does." Gendry took up the tongs again. "You're afraid."

She heard them coming long before she saw them. Hot Pie was breathing heavily, and once he stumbled in the dark, barked his shin, and cursed loud enough to wake half of Harrenhal. Gendry was quieter, but the swords he was carrying rang together as he moved. "Here I am." She stood. "Be quiet or they'll hear you." The boys picked their way toward her over tumbled stones. Gendry was wearing oiled chainmail under his cloak, she saw, and he had his blacksmith's hammer slung across his back. Hot Pie's red round face peered out from under a hood. He had a sack of bread dangling from his right hand and a big wheel of cheese under his left arm. "There's a guard on that postern," said Gendry quietly. "I told you there would be."

By midday Hot Pie had begun to complain. His arse was sore, he told them, and the saddle was rubbing him raw inside his legs, and besides he had to get some sleep. "I'm so tired I'm going to fall off the horse." Arya looked at Gendry. "If he falls off, who do you think will find him first, the wolves or the Mummers?" "The wolves," said Gendry. "Better noses."

Dusk was settling as they stopped to rest the horses once more and share another meal of bread and cheese. "I'm cold and wet," Hot Pie complained. "We're a long way from Harrenhal now, for sure. We could have us a fire—" "NO!" Arya and Gendry both said, at the exact same instant. Hot Pie quailed a little. Arya gave Gendry a sideways look. He said it with me, like Jon used to do, back in Winterfell. She missed Jon Snow the most of all her brothers.

"What about Hot Pie?" Gendry pointed. Hot Pie was already on the ground, curled up beneath his cloak on a bed of damp leaves and snoring softly. He had a big wedge of cheese in one fist, but it looked as though he had fallen asleep between bites. It was no good arguing, Arya realized; Gendry had the right of it. The Mummers will need to sleep too, she told herself, hoping it was true. She was so weary it was a struggle even to get down from the saddle, but she remembered to hobble her horse before finding a place beneath a beech tree. The ground was hard and damp. She wondered how long it would be before she slept in a bed again, with hot food and a fire to warm her.

"Aye, and good for you." The man smiled. "It's not every day I meet a lad with such a tasty name. And what would your friends be called, Mutton Chop and Squab?" Gendry scowled down from his saddle. "Why should I tell you my name? I haven't heard yours."

"Gendry," she called, her voice low and urgent. "They have a boat. We could sail the rest of the way up to Riverrun. It would be faster than riding, I think."He looked dubious. "Did you ever sail a boat?""Then there's oars to row.""Against the current?" Gendry frowned. "Wouldn't that be slow? And what if the boat tips over and we fall into the water? It's not our boat anyway, it's the inn's."

honestly the fact that gendry is street smart and also happens to be very intelligent on his own, is hardworking and very loyal, has a quick wit, and has a good set of survival skills is why he really works well as arya's partner and most trusted friend. also he's not a pushover and i think that's very important as well.

(i'll be willing to argue that since he was an apprentice under tobho mott, he must know how to read and write some words, or at least know his numbers... not saying that he received the same level of education that arya did; that would be ridiculous, but i believe that he must have at least a little grasp of it)

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no-idea-for-a-cool-name · 3 months ago

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the root of a lot of discourse re: arya stark is that most of the fandom is simply not convinced shes a main character lol she has the 3rd most chapters of any character, the most of any stark, the most of any female character, the most in storm, and she is the only character to have a pov in every single book but people treat arya fans like theyre CRAZY for 1. thinking arya is a complex, dynamic character instead of a static, cardboard cutout of a tomboy and 2. thinking she is important to the story/endgame. even a theory as grounded as "i think arya could lead the bwb bc lots of reasons like she literally did it before at the stoney sept in the actual text also her wolf" and the reaction will be mockery and disbelief that you suggested she will do something other than kill xyz character before fading into irrelevancy

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no-idea-for-a-cool-name · 3 months ago

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arya only has one chapter in the north, but northern locations are referenced throughout her entire storyline. right from the very beginning all the way thru to her most recently published chapters.

Arya shrugged. "Hold still," she snapped at Nymeria, "I'm not hurting you." Then to Sansa she said, "When we were crossing the Neck, I counted thirty-six flowers I never saw before, and Mycah showed me a lizard-lion." Sansa shuddered. They had been twelve days crossing the Neck, rumbling down a crooked causeway through an endless black bog, and she had hated every moment of it. (Sansa, AGOT)

after they leave winterfell arya has fun on the journey south by exploring the land. the neck is part of the north's territory. the people who live there are northerners (like the reeds; close allies to the starks) so i think its significant that arya actually got out there to see it. she takes an interest in learning about the flora, fauna, and customs.

...but it was Jon Snow she thought of most. She wished somehow they could come to the Wall before Winterfell, so Jon might muss up her hair and call her "little sister." She'd tell him, "I missed you," and he'd say it too at the very same moment, the way they always used to say things together. She would have liked that. She would have liked that better than anything. (Arya, ACOK) "I want to go north, to the Wall. Here, I can pay." She gave him the purse. "The Night's Watch has a castle on the sea." "Eastwatch." The captain spilled out the silver onto his palm and frowned. "Is this all you have?" (Arya, ASOS)

the wall is a location that comes up often in arya's pov. arya wants to visit jon on the wall. desperately. while traveling up the kings road with yoren she poses as a night's watch recruit and they are bound for the wall. arya tries to go there before finding passage to braavos and even once there keeps tabs on the ships hoping she will find one to bring her to eastwatch on the sea so she can be reunited with jon.

She did remember Lord Cerwyn, though. His lands had been close to Winterfell, so he and his son Cley had often visited. (Arya, ACOK)

arya considers the cerwyn lands while imprisoned alongside their lord in harrenhal. he dies before arya has a chance to do anything but it shows her familiarity.

When she got closer, she saw that he was a northman, very tall and thin, huddled in a ragged fur cloak. That was bad. She might have been able to trick a Frey or one of the Brave Companions, but the Dreadfort men had served Roose Bolton their whole life, and they knew him better than she did. If I tell him I am Arya Stark and command him to stand aside . . . No, she dare not. He was a northman, but not a Winterfell man. He belonged to Roose Bolton. (Arya, ACOK)

one of the most forbidding locations in the north is the bolton's fortress. the dreadfort is a dark place and arya knows better than to trust its men. the survivors of the bolton's attack on winterfell are being kept prisoner at the dreadfort too. in conditions like arya experienced in clash.

"Cat." He considered. "Yes. Braavos is full of cats. One more will not be noticed. You are Cat, an orphan of . . ." "King's Landing." She had visited White Harbor with her father twice, but she knew King's Landing better. (Arya, AFFC)

this is one of my fave little details. arya references visiting white harbor with ned. i dont think any other stark child does so i do like to headcanon it was a daddy and daughter trip. arya wouldve met the manderlys on these trips. they're also staunch allies of the starks. wyman lost a son at the red wedding and arya was imprisoned in harrenhal alongside his other son.

"I know where the slaves came from. They were wildlings from Westeros, from a place called Hardhome. An old ruined place, accursed." Old Nan had told her tales of Hardhome, back at Winterfell when she had still been Arya Stark. (Arya, ADWD)

this is a northern location beyond the wall with a mysterious past and an uncertain future. the freefolk have settled there but the conditions are not great. these refugees were taken prisoner by lyseni slavers. the sealord seized the ship, but arya spied on the slavers and informed the faceless men that they intended to go back for more. using this information the iron bank assisted jon snow in an attempted rescue of those who remained at hardhome.

"You are Arya of Winterfell, daughter of the north. You told me you could be strong. You have the wolf blood in you." (Arya, ACOK) Needle was Winterfell's grey walls, and the laughter of its people. (Arya, AFFC)

and, of course, there is winterfell. winterfell is arya's home and a cornerstone of her identity. i think the most touching thing about arya's perspective of winterfell is that it isn't just the starks home, but maester luwin's and old nan's and hodor's and everybody else's too. the smallfolk will always make their home there and arya doesn't just acknowledge that but cherishes it.

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no-idea-for-a-cool-name · 3 months ago

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With all due respect, I feel like your analysis is a bit biased. You're attributing only good traits to Ned and Sansa and only bad ones to Cat and Arya.

Ned is a good and honorable person, but he's a human being, not a saint, and he's perfectly capable of being impulsive.

"You've brought me all yhis way yo yake me to a brothel."

"Your wife is inside," Littlefinger said.

It was the final insult. "Brandon was too kind to you," Ned said as he slammed the small man back against a wall and shoved his dagger up under the little pointed chin beard.

Lets also not forget that Ned had a child hostage and that he regularly chopped off heads. He does not have clean hands and Arya's predisposition for justice, as messed up as it might seem for our modern sensibilities, fits her universe and is pretty in line with Ned's teaching about carrying out the responsibility if you're going to punish someone. Ned also broke the rules when he felt it was needed, like lying to both his wife and his king in order to hide Jon. It was for very honorable reasons but it shows he doesn't blindly follow rules.

Why do you not associate Arya at all with Ned's honorable side? What about the many time Arya risked her life to save others like when she literally ran into a fire to save Weasel or went back to save Gendry? What about the enormous amount of empathy she displays throughout the story? What about her guilt over not being able to save people while she was being a victim herself? Arya is not the killing machine you're painting her as.

And why are you blatantly ignoring the many times Cat and Arya show their intelligence and capacity for strategic thinking. Sure, they do have moments of stupidity and impulsivity, like literally every single character (lets not forget Sansa giving out Ned's plans to Cersei, attempting to push Joffrey to his death, slapping Sweetrobin or blurting out Jon's name to Myranda when she wasn't supposed to know him), but they also showed a lot of intelligence. Cat actually gave a lot of quality advice to Robb, it's a shame she was kind of doomed by the narrative to fail. And I will absolutely agree with you that this failure is in large part due to her own questionable choices but considering her circumstances, she wasn't being particularly irrational most of the time.

And about Arya, she did not have to learn to control her emotions at the house of black and white, she had to learn to PERFECT the control of her emotions to a higher level than any regular person. As I said before, she had her dumb moment like every other character but she has shown she was capable of keeping a cool mind and control her emotions since AGOT:

She stepped out of the stable.

I have to also mention her realizing the Lannisters were setting up a trap for her, keeping her head down in order to survive in her time of imprisonment, not giving away her identity that easily even to northern allies because she couldn't trust them, outsmarting a faceless man to organize a coup, planning and executing her scape from Harrenhal, staying outside of the battlefield even if she disliked it because she knew it was the logical choice, and many more instances. There's simply way too much evidence of Arya thinking things through as to paint her as some one-dimensional dumbass.

In my opinion, both Arya and Sansa have certain things in common with both Cat and Ned (while being their own individual character). And neither of these characters is purely good or purely bad, they all have flaws and virtues.

I can't say much about Dany because I'm not that knowledgeable about her, I'll just say that I personally wouldn't take the show as an inspiration for theory-crafting. Dany has already gone through hell and she's still keeping her sanity and her compassion, and there's plenty of people who suffer yet don't go crazy or evil because of it. Maybe Dany will go that route, who knows, but I don't think there's sufficient evidence to consider that the most likely outcome.

Did this edit a while ago (here) , when I started seeing a lot of posts about the similarities between Sansa and Ned, and Arya and Caitlyn. I know this discourse is old but I want to make this post anyway since this edit is so dear to me.

Seeing the characters for the first time the thing we are led to see is that Arya is the most similar to Ned; Of course she is the "brave daughter", with the more masculine traits. She despises girl's activities, she is a wild little thing. She is the north, we can see it in her dire wolf, she is her father's daughter, she wants to learn the skills she associates with the northmen and with Ned Stark, and he supports this. She even looks like her father! In contrast Sansa is a girly girl, she excels in the arts, she sings, she dances, she loves sewing. She is initially more drawn to her mother's gods, even her dire wolf is meek, disciplined. She is the perfect little lady. She even resembles her mother having her eyes and her hair, so why should we see the Ned Stark in her?

But here is the thing: when people criticize Sansa Stark, they criticize her naivety first. The trust she put in Cercei. Between her parents who is the one who believe in the honor of the people that surround him? It's Ned.

It's Ned that warns Cercei, with naivety, signing his own fate. He holds her at his standard, thinking she would act like he would act in her situation, without considering that not everyone is as honorable, as good, as him. Even with littlefinger, he considers him an ally, purely on the fact that he presents as one, saying to be a friend of his wife, so he trusts him, even tho he is considered a cunning man by everyone. He thinks before speaking, he thinks thoroughly about the effects of his words and of his actions. He is never reckless, he never acts on instinct. The only thing he keeps in higher regard of duty and honor it's love (the love that brings Jon home. The love for his family and wife. The love that makes him lie for his family's sake, to try to save Sansa.[Try telling me you don't see the irony in the fact that they both tried to save each other])

He represents the perfect lord: he is honest, he is smart, he is good, he cares about his people, he honors tradition. And who is the perfect lady, the one who plays by the rules? Sansa Stark ,the romantic girl who believes that all knights are good, only because they swore to protect the innocent, who doesn't even consider that oaths can be broken, until everyone turns against her family. But Sansa changes, Sansa learns from the mistake of her father and from her own. She uses her meekness as armor, but in her heart she still believes in the goodness of the people who surround her, she believes that love is stronger than fear. In her heart she starts to align herself no more with her mother's gods but with her father's. But what about little finger and the eyrie? Well, who is the one that was stewarded in the eyrie, the one who learned to strategize there? You guessed it! It's Eddard Stark. She parallels him directly. She is learning to play the game that got her father killed, with the very man that betrayed him. And I think it's very telling that when they have breakfast together, she refuses his pomegranate, in a Hades and Persephone parallel. She will go back to Winterfell, she will slay the giant. She will somehow cause the death of Littlefinger, and it will be on purpose.

Let's talk about Arya and Caitlyn. Arya is as hot headed as her mother. They think with their guts, and that's what saves Arya so often. The first act that puts Ned in danger, is Caitlyn's. She, based only on a suspicion, kidnaps the brother of the queen. And she does it without a perfect plan, standing in a tavern. A rather rash decision, that will create problems later, but that could have ended in a disaster even before that. She prioritizes revenge for her son, who she saved without training (fierce! Like her daughter! [I know summer saved both of them, but she took time.]), without acting the "right way". Her decision to free the king slayer in the hope that he will return her daughters, even tho she doesn't trust him, is also rash. She does it because she trusts Brienne and because she cares more about her daughters than war strategies, but in doing so she disobeys her king. Cat's emotions make her act carelessly and sometimes even cruelly (Let's think about Walder's idiot innocent son, that she kills after Robb's death. Was he responsible for his father's action? Of course not. But she was desperate and she wanted to save her own son, and after his death she wanted revenge. Ned stark would have never done something like that.) When she dies and she comes back as lady stone-heart her whole deal is revenge. Who is on a path to be a killing machine, the one that kept a list of the people she wanted to take revenge on? Arya. Who had to learn to control her emotions in the house of black and white? Arya. Who had to learn to think before acting and speaking? Arya.

They parallel each other and I'm a firm believer of the theory of Arya's revenge plot ending with lady stone-heart pity kill.

This brings me to the last parallel of my video: Dany and Aerys. Before people come for me: Dany's "madness" in the show is a lazy plot to villainize her, and it's a shit work by D&D. I would like to say that it's done to elevate Jon Snow's character, but I don't know who could like him in the last season so if that was the reason for that shit show then it failed even more. I don't think George is ever going to that route, but if he would he would probably do it with some sense..

Even so I would like to point out some interesting points I noticed. In a lot of Dany's chapters people say to her that she is not like her father: of course that is the case! we are led to believe his father was always horrible, an insane cruel man...

The show popularized the quote "every time a Targaryen is born the gods throw a coin": this quote alludes to the madness that sometimes afflicts the Targaryen dinasty, and it's often used against Aerys II and Show!Dany. Of course the show fails to take into consideration the fact that this quote is propaganda, and that Aerys wasn't always mad (even tho he was always a bad man). He becomes more erratic after his newborn child's death, when he starts to see enemies in the people who surround him. But the very cause of his madness, it's his forced stay duskendale, where he is prisoner for six months. He is traumatized by these months where he is subject to death threats, by the knowledge that he could die everyday if Twiyn attacks, but that he will surely die if no one attacks to retrieve him. He is probably tortured, and even when he is ultimately saved, doubts torment him. Why didn't they save him earlier? Of course he had a mean streak, a cruel soul, but it's trauma the cause of his madness.

When Dany attacks King's Landing, it's the end of a crescendo of anger in her heart. She doesn't trust anyone anymore (except her dothrakis). Her best friend has just died, she lost two children. She went from a place where people respected her, to a place where everyone expects the worst from her. The person that she fell in love with, seems to prioritize his people to her, no one has her back except Mormont, and he dies. She feels isolated and surrounded by enemies, just like her father.

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