noteofnaught
noteofnaught
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noteofnaught · 3 years ago
Text
Dichotomy and DMC
第一部分:魔王VS勇者。
是deepl在翻译。
有什么问题与意见请告诉我,我会修正它。
Part I: The Demon King vs. the Brave.
It's deepl in translation.
Please let me know if you have any questions and comments and I will fix it.
魔王VS勇者
The Demon King vs. the Brave
在人类认知的世界中,有阴必有阳,阴阳交替;有水必然有火,水火相克;有善必有恶。善恶交融;有坏人必有好人,所以当魔王降临,也必然有勇者出现,然后相爱相杀【?】
In the world as human beings perceive it, there must be yin and yang, alternating yin and yang; there must be water and there must be fire, and water and fire are mutually exclusive; there must be good and there must be evil. Good and evil mingle; there are bad people and there are good people, so when the demon king comes, there are also bound to be brave people who appear and then love each other [?
这种两分法的辩证法中被表述为“对立统一”。
DMC1就是这种两分法经典代表。
This dichotomy is expressed in the dialectic of 'unity of opposites'.
The DMC1 is a classic representative of this dichotomy.
就像早期面对儿童的故事中,按照早期人类对恶的认知,魔王肯定集合世间所有应该被诅咒的丑恶,肉体也是乱七八糟的恶心玩儿,而勇者则是人间一切美好的集合体,拥有华丽武技是一个十全十美的大好青年。
邪恶的蒙杜斯连肉体都是恶心的不可名状物体,但丁甚至为敌人不幸待遇感觉不公,你可以把所有形容人类美好品质的都放他身上。也许但丁他是不拉粪便的,哪怕是会拉出粪便那也是金黄色的。
最初“两分法”是被用来构建故事,人物是为故事服务的,其中每个人分工十分明确,正义邪恶,好坏善恶……光看脸都能、分辨出现的程度。
As in the early stories that confronted children, according to early human perceptions of evil, the demon lord must be a collection of all the ugliness in the world that should be cursed and the flesh a disgusting mess to play with, while the brave man is a collection of all that is good on earth and a great young man with magnificent martial arts skills who is a perfect 10.
The evil Mundus is a disgusting unnameable object even in the flesh, and Dante even feels unjust for the unfortunate treatment of his enemy, you could put all the descriptions of good human qualities on him. Perhaps Dante he does not shit, even if he would shit it would be a golden colour.
Originally the 'dichotomy' was used to build stories where the characters were in service of the story and where each person had a very clear division of labour, good and evil, good and bad, good and evil ...... could be distinguished to the extent that they appeared just by looking at their faces.
但随着作品人气的提升,故事的篇幅不断被加长,这让作者拥有了更为充裕的时间去展示人物的性格,恶人也有闪光点,好人也有缺陷。就这样两分法向我们读者传达万物相克相依的认识论。
当然也可以发现,认识的深入是需要成本的,套入故事就是人性的发掘是需要篇幅的,但两分法最大优点在于任何成本条件下它都十分有效,可以为读者提供他们满意的结论。
当然啦,两分法的应用不仅仅随着篇幅的增长而渐渐展开,当受众本身的认知能力水准较高时,两分法的设定就会显得模糊不清。
但因为随着DMC1中蒙杜斯的失败,我们悲痛失去认识蒙杜斯闪光点的机会。
But as the popularity of the work grows, the story is lengthened, which gives the author more time to showcase the characters, the villains have their flaws and the good guys have their flaws. In this way the dichotomy conveys to us readers the epistemology that all things are mutually exclusive.
Of course it can also be found that the depth of understanding has a cost, and to apply it to the story is that the discovery of human nature requires space, but the great advantage of the bifurcated approach is that it is very effective at any cost and can provide the reader with a conclusion that they are satisfied with.
Of course, the application of the dichotomy does not only develop over time, but also becomes blurred when the audience itself is at a higher level of cognitive ability.
But because with the defeat of Mundus in DMC1, we sadly lost the opportunity to know where Mundus shone.
所幸DMC3中为我们提供可爱的维吉尔。
Fortunately, the lovely Vergil is available for us in DMC3.
作为善恶对应的双胞胎确实非常完美的魔王与勇者的载体,更加充分为我们展示,何为万物相克相依的认识论。
当然,当我们仔细去研究不免发现,虽然设定上勇者与魔王是对等的存在,但实际上魔王和勇者之间差距十分巨大,两者唯一对等的方面可能只有武力这一点,抛开武力不谈,魔王是一个集领袖、战略家、政治家等等角色于一体的存在,懂的煽动人心为他服务,简直就是魔王的家常必备,这和依靠武力扮演刺客角色的勇者是完全不对等的。
那么请准许我借用一张表对比一下,DMC3和DMC5中勇者但丁与魔王维吉尔之间人格对比。
As the twin counterparts of good and evil are indeed perfect vehicles for the demon lord and the brave man, they show us even more fully the epistemology of how all things are mutually dependent.
Of course, when we look into it, we can't help but notice that although Guts and the Demon King are set up as equals, in reality there is a huge gap between the Demon King and Guts, and the only aspect where they are equal is probably force. This is not at all the same as a brave man who plays the role of an assassin by force.
Then allow me to borrow a table comparing the personalities of Dante the Bold and Vergil the Demon in DMC3 and DMC5.
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这样一对比之下,勇者不对魔王产生一点情愫,才是真的奇怪的事情。
所以阻止但丁对蒙杜斯产生情愫,可能真的是因为蒙杜斯是杀母仇人这个事。
更加让人伤心的是,至今系列中但丁从没践行过,如何通过智力取得胜利或者任何能够与战略、计划、领袖这些职业靠近过,但他展示自己武力是顶尖确实从没缺席。
In this contrast, it would be really strange for Guts not to have a little affection for the Demon King.
So it may be true that the thing that prevented Dante from developing an affection for Mundus was the fact that Mundus was the murderer of his mother.
To add insult to injury, Dante has never practiced in the series so far, how to achieve victory through intellect or anything that could come close to such careers as strategy, planning, and leadership, but he demonstrates that he is top of his force is indeed never absent.
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noteofnaught · 3 years ago
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Reworked the section on DMC3 in 《The Trinity of Fates》. Can't post lovely pictures because of pixel problems.
English is put together with Chinese.
Please let me know if there are any problems or errors and I will fix it.
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蕾蒂
arkham的女儿,原名为玛丽。由于在与但丁初次邂逅时没有告知名字,所以那之后但丁便一直以蕾蒂=大小姐这个名字来称呼玛丽。
为了追捕杀害母亲的父亲,她只身一人前往到塔。
对父亲的复仇必须由自己亲手完成。这对她来说,是“家庭问题”。在给予被但输给但丁和维吉尔而从魔界堕落的arkham最后一击之后,蕾蒂流下了眼泪。
虽然杀害自己亲生的父亲,身上沾染恶魔的行为的鲜血,但这也是她无法成为邪恶“人类”的证明
Lady
Daughter of arkham, originally named Mary. As her name was not given during her first encounter with Dante, Dante has since referred to Mary by the name Lady=Missy.
She travels alone to the Tower in pursuit of her father, who killed her mother.
Revenge against her father must be done by her own hand. This is a "family matter" for her.
After delivering the final blow to arkham, who had fallen from the demon world after being defeated by Dante and Vergil, Lady shed tears.
Although she had killed her own father and was stained with the blood of a demon's deeds, it was proof that she could not be an evil "human".
但丁
为了寻找母亲的仇敌而开便利店的但丁孤独的战斗即将拉开帷幕前,选择了与他背道而驰的生活方式的哥哥维吉尔,向但丁发出了一份参加“疯狂派对”的邀请函。
前往塔的途中与报弑母之仇叫蕾蒂的女性相遇,对哥哥的执念(也可以说纠结的情愫)、对父母的思念,自身对家庭的意识也提高了不少。
最终,和父亲用尽一生所贯彻的正义同样,他选择了那条守护弱者的道路。
Dante
Before Dante's lonely battle to find his mother's enemies begins, his brother Vergil, who has chosen a lifestyle contrary to his own, sends Dante an invitation to a "crazy party".
On his way to the tower, he meets a woman named Lady who avenges her mother's murder, and his obsession (and arguably tangled feelings) for his brother, his longing for his parents, and his own heightened sense of family.
In the end, he chose the same path of guarding the weak as the justice his father had spent his life carrying out.
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维吉尔
但丁的双胞胎哥哥。与但丁完全不同,维吉尔是不喜欢吵闹的类型。
为了追求斯巴达所继承的恶魔之力,维吉尔与阿卡姆合谋,打开魔界之门。
然而,维吉尔是斯巴达血脉继承者。
他绝对不会因为想要侵略人类界而渴望恶魔的力量,只是单纯的想要变强大的想法而追求力量。
结果这份想法被阿卡姆所利用,独自一个人堕入魔界,向蒙德斯发起挑战,但最终战败。
Vergil.
Dante's twin brother. Completely different from Dante, Vergil is the type who doesn't like to make a lot of noise.
In pursuit of the demonic powers inherited from Sparda, Vergil conspired with Arkham to open the gates of the demonic realm.
However, Vergil is the heir to the Sparda bloodline.
He would never desire demonic power because he wanted to invade the human realm, but simply pursued the power with the idea of becoming powerful.
As a result, this idea was exploited by Arkham, who alone fell into the demon realm and challenged Mundus, but ultimately lost the battle.
阿卡姆
阿卡姆是一个崇拜恶魔,渴望将斯巴达的力量占为己有的人类。
利用半人半魔的维吉尔叫来但丁,自己作为杀害母亲仇敌引来蕾蒂。
全部为了打开魔界之门。
让世界陷入混沌,让自己成为神明的计划也如预料中进行,但阿卡姆并没有预想到斯巴达的力量竟然会如此的强大。
解开封印的阿卡姆,无法抑制强大的力量,最终化身成为丑陋的魔物。
然后,在但丁和维吉尔的讨伐中战败,堕入魔界,最终丧命于亲生女儿之手。
Arkham
Arkham is a human who worships demons and longs to take the power of Sparda for himself.
Using the half-human, half-demon Vergil to call in Dante and himself as the enemy who killed his wife to lure in Lady.
All in order to open the gates of the demon world.
The plan to plunge the world into chaos and make himself a god went as expected, but Arkham did not anticipate that the power of Sparda would be so great.
Unsealed, Arkham was unable to contain his great power and eventually transformed into an ugly demon.
Then, defeated in a crusade by Dante and Vergil, he fell into the demonic realm and eventually perished at the hands of his own daughter.
03
在「DEVIL MAY CRY」中,但丁打败了魔帝蒙德斯。在那场惊心动魄的战斗中,但丁不得不葬送自己的哥哥——维吉尔=尼禄·安杰罗。整个系列中,记录过去回忆的篇幅是「DEVIL MAY CRY3」。在这部鬼泣3中登场的但丁毫无疑问非常年轻。弹奏吉他的英姿,那宛如摇滚明星一般的气场,简直就仿佛是已经知道身为观众的玩家们正在观看的现场舞台剧一般。
然而,与年轻的但丁对峙的毋庸置疑,就是他的孪生哥哥维吉尔。与一直渴望得到父亲恶魔之力的维吉尔完全相反,但丁希望自己能继续作为人类生活下去。从一开始,但丁就和维吉尔刀刃相向。
不论是在剧情刻画还是在场景上,都栩栩如生的描绘了这场兄弟之间空前的吵架。除了凸显这两个梦想南辕北辙的手足兄弟之外,还有两人那不可能修复的,相生相克的价值观。在正篇故事当中,还有另一组固执己见的血肉亲人被生动的描摹。
那就是阿卡姆和蕾蒂。得到了斯巴达的力量,妄想成为神明的阿卡姆为了达成自己的野心杀死了妻子,甚至还想将女儿作为祭品献给恶魔。
那就是阿卡姆和蕾蒂。
蕾蒂亲手葬送了父亲。这里也是无法挽回的,悲伤的相克描述。对亲人的妄执。
正因为深深地爱着,所以才会恨之入骨。
这实在太过于人类的感情。蕾蒂自不必说,这也是但丁和维吉尔身为人类的证明。阿卡姆也是为自己欲望连亲人都可以牺牲的冷酷(冷静理智)的男人,他股欲望正是人类本身。即便继承了恶魔的血脉,即便无比渴求恶魔的力量,「DEVIL MAY CRY3」中所表现的,是人与人之间的碰撞。
在最后的场面中,维吉尔留在了魔界。维吉尔之所以让但丁回到人类界,并不是为了把能在魔界得到的所有力量都占为己有,而是希望但丁能够作为一个人类继续活下去。
那个地方是这样的解释。
那之后,维吉尔一个人在魔界中勇敢的挑战着魔帝蒙德斯,与此同时「DEVIL MAY CRY3」也落下了帷幕。战斗最后的结果,正如第一部「DEVIL MAY CRY」中所叙述的那样,维吉尔被打败了。并且作为蒙德斯的傀儡,将刀锋指向但丁……。
然后,作为展现这些对立思想的舞台的地方,就是特蒙尼格尔之塔。就让我们仔细推敲一下关于连接人类界和魔界的这座塔的起源吧。
特蒙尼格尔的词源为Etemenanki。这个词代表美索不达米亚文明的苏美尔人所建造的神殿,与旧约圣经中于「创世纪」章节登场的巴别塔意思相同。Etemenanki=巴别塔在传说里是一种在美索不达米亚文明中十分常见的金字形神塔(阶梯状建筑物),剧中所描绘的特蒙尼格尔塔也与之拥有相似的构造。
In "DEVIL MAY CRY", Dante defeated the demon emperor Mundus. In that thrilling battle, Dante had to bury his brother, Vergil = Nelo Angelo. The one chapter in the entire series that records memories of the past is 'DEVIL MAY CRY3'. The Dante who makes his debut in this Ghostbusters 3 is undoubtedly very young. The guitar-playing heroics and the rock star-like aura of the character are like a live stage show that the players already know they are watching.
However, the young Dante is undoubtedly confronted by his twin brother, Vergil. In complete contrast to Vergil, who has always longed for the power of his father's demon, Dante wishes to continue living as a human. From the very beginning, Dante and Vergil are at war with each other.
Both in the plot portrayal and in the scenes, this unprecedented quarrel between the brothers is vividly portrayed. In addition to highlighting the two brothers, whose dreams are so far apart, there is also the impossibility of repairing the two men's, mutually exclusive values. In the main story, another set of stubborn blood relatives is vividly portrayed.
That would be Arkham and Lady. Having gained the power of Sparda, Arkham, who has delusions of godhood, kills his wife to achieve his ambitions and even tries to sacrifice his daughter to the devil.
That was Arkham and Lady.
Lady buried her father with her own hands. Here too is the irreparable, sad description of phallicism. The delusional obsession with loved ones.
It is precisely because one loves deeply that one hates so much.
This is too much of a human emotion. Lady, needless to say, is a testament to Dante and Vergil's being human. Arkham is also a cold (calm and rational) man who would sacrifice even his loved ones for his own desires, and his desires are human. Even though he has inherited demonic blood, even though he craves demonic power, what is shown in DEVIL MAY CRY3 is the clash between man and man.
In the final scenes, Vergil stays in the demon world. The reason why Vergil has Dante return to the human realm is not to take all the power he can get in the demon realm for himself, but he wants Dante to continue living as a human.
That place was the explanation.
After that, Vergil alone bravely challenged the demon emperor Mundus in the demon world, and at the same time "DEVIL MAY CRY3" came to an end. The final outcome of the battle, as described in the first DEVIL MAY CRY, was that Vergil was defeated. And as a puppet of Mundus, the blade was pointed at Dante .......
The place that then serves as a stage for the presentation of these opposing ideas is the Tower of temen ni gru. Let us just ponder a little about the origins of this tower that connects the human realm with the demonic realm.
temen ni gru is Etemenanki, which stands for the temple built by the Sumerians of Mesopotamia, the same as the Tower of Babel, which appears in the Old Testament in the Book of Genesis. The Tower of Temonig as depicted in the play has a similar construction.
04
另外,不仅仅是宏伟的外观,若从特蒙尼格尔塔的用途来看,也同样能让人回想起巴别塔。建造于美索不达米亚的首都——巴比伦的巴别塔,是傲慢的人类为了接近天空所修建的。看到人类竟然想闯入天界,神明暴怒之下让各地的人们拥有了不同的语言。其结果,毋庸置疑是导致了整个人类界的大混乱,说相同语言的人们聚集到一起,散落在世界各地过着互不相干的生活。「创世纪」里更是有表示巴别这个名词也代表混乱的有关记载。在「DEVIL MAY CRY3」中,阿卡姆解除特蒙尼格尔的封印时曾经说道。
封印被解除了。
你觉得接下来会发生什么?
—混沌将至
正如那些自恃清高,最终被神明惩罚的人类一样。从想要亲自成为神明的阿卡姆口中说出的,是呼唤混沌的诅咒。从人类界延伸到魔界的特蒙尼格尔,正是孕育混沌的塔。
人们的欲望敲响混沌之钟
历经两千年—
关闭的魔界之门再次被打开。
「特蒙尼格尔《孕育恐怖的基盘》」
正如它的名字那样!
而我将作为混沌世界的王横空出世!
这里要着重强调的,就是阿卡姆所说的「人们的欲望敲响混沌之钟」这句话了。打开魔界之门的特蒙尼格尔顶端,出现了象征傲慢(PRIDE)、嫉妒(ENVY)、暴怒(WRATH)、懒惰(SLOTH)、贪婪(GREED)、饕餮(GLUTTONY)、色欲(LUST)这七宗罪的时钟。根据但丁·阿利吉耶里的叙事诗「神曲」中的内容,炼狱入口的七位额头上刻着七宗罪的主人公,将巡视七座炼狱山,消除这些罪恶。而「DEVIL MAY CRY3」中的阿卡姆则是罪恶之印本身,飞入魔界(=炼狱)的但丁,便是消除阿卡姆(=人类)罪恶的使者。
Moreover, it is not only the grandeur of the exterior that recalls the Tower of Babel, but also the use of temen ni gru. Built in Babylon, the capital of Mesopotamia, the Tower of Babel was built by arrogant humans in order to gain access to the sky. Seeing that humans were trying to break into the heavens, the gods became furious and gave people everywhere a different language. The result was undoubtedly chaos throughout the human realm, as people speaking the same language came together and scattered around the world to live in disparate ways. "The term Babel is even mentioned in Genesis as representing chaos. In DEVIL MAY CRY3, Arkham says when he lifts the seal of temen ni gru.
The seal has been lifted.
What do you think will happen next?
-Chaos will come.
Just like those human beings who were so proud of themselves that they were eventually punished by the gods. From the mouth of Arkham, who wants to become a god himself, comes a curse that calls for chaos. Temonigal, which stretches from the human realm to the demonic realm, is the very tower where Chaos is birthed.
The desire of the people rings the bell of Chaos
After two thousand years -
The closed gates of the demonic realm have been opened again.
Temen ni gru, "The base plate of terror"
As its name implies!
And I will emerge as the king of the world of chaos!
The words of Arkham, "The desires of men ring the bell of chaos", are highlighted here. At the top of Temonigal, which opens the gates of the demonic world, appears the clock symbolising the seven deadly sins of PRIDE, ENVY, WRATH, SLOTH, GREED, GLUTTONY and LUST. According to Dante Alighieri's narrative poem 'The Divine Comedy', the seven protagonists of the entrance to Purgatory, with the seven sins engraved on their foreheads, will tour the seven mountains of Purgatory to eradicate these sins. The Arkham in DEVIL MAY CRY3 is the seal of sin itself, and Dante, who has flown into the demonic world (= Purgatory), is the messenger of the elimination of the sins of Arkham (= humanity).
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noteofnaught · 3 years ago
Text
The Fallacy of the Source of Dante's Power
但丁力量之源的谬论
The Fallacy of the Source of Dante's Power
英文翻译依旧是Deepl。
有问题跟��意见请告诉我。
欢迎提出各种意见及讨论
The English translation is still Deepl.
Please let me know if you have any questions or comments.
All comments and discussions are welcome!
在谈论这个开始的之前,有必要讨论一下但丁战斗的理由。
在《DEVIL MAY CRY THE SACRED HEART》中有一页是这样的描述的:
Before talking about this beginning, it is necessary to discuss the reasons why Dante fought.
There is a page in 《DEVIL MAY CRY THE SACRED HEART》 where it is described as follows:
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【那个时候第一次,但丁意识到了。
作为恶魔的父亲保护了人类世界。
所以才站在恶魔的大军对面。
拥有母亲的影子的
翠西也像母亲一样庇护自己的身姿。
但丁意识到了。
这不是仅仅为了复仇而战斗,而是失去所爱之人悲剧再次发生的战斗。
有想要守护的想要拯救的存在,这才是他的战斗真正的理由。】
In English, please refer to the text on the chart.
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我们在DMC5中但丁与尤立增也能看到类似的对话,可以说这是但丁第一次在游戏里面直接用台词表达自己战斗的理由。
We see a similar dialogue between Dante and Urizen in DMC5, and it could be argued that this is the first time Dante has used lines directly inside the game to express his reasons for fighting.
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看起来像完全不一样的台词,但表示意思是相同的。
不想失去的东西,必然也会是想要保护的想要拯救的东西,就是因为不想失去才想去保护才想去拯救。同样,正因为体会过失去,才更加不想再次重温那种失去的瞬间,所以才如此拼命去战斗去变的更强。
可这只是但丁的战斗的理由,而并不是他力量之源。
至少并不是他在DMC1《解体真书》中自叙的力量之源是一回事。
It seems like a completely different line, but the meaning is the same.
What you don't want to lose is inevitably what you want to protect and what you want to save. Likewise, it is precisely because one has experienced loss that one does not want to relive that moment of loss again, and that is why one fights so hard to become stronger.
But that was Dante's reason for fighting, not the source of his power.
At least not the source of his power as he describes it in the DMC1 "True Book of Disintegration".
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恶魔者,无心也。
简而言之,他们无法理解爱情的含义。尤其是那份思恋他人的晦涩,与想要守护某个人的冲动——诸如此类复杂的情感,是身为魔族的他们所没有的东西。
恶魔们内心里充斥着的,只有践踏弱者,挥洒欲望的残暴之心,与对目光所及之物深不见底的憎恶。这才是作为恶魔,想要在魔界生存不可或缺的美德。而越��拥有强大的负面情绪,就越是能够成为那个世界的支配者。这就是恶魔们的处世之道。
但是,我认为,这种缺乏对爱情认知的精神构造,正是恶魔最大的弱点。不论是在身体机能还是智慧上都优于人类的魔族,之所以迄今为止都无法占领地上世界,就是因为他们轻视了那坚强勇敢,只为正义而战的伟大之心。
当对于某个人的爱在一瞬间爆发,并随即转变为愤怒的时候,人类强大的精神便能发挥出无与伦比的力量。而生来就没有感情的恶魔,不管付出多大的努力,都只能使用这股即使被称为是魔力之源也不为过的力量的一半而已。
正是因为如此,在两千年前,拥有洪荒之力,能与神明并驾齐驱的魔帝穆图斯,才会被我的父亲·魔剑士斯巴达打败。父亲心中所充斥着的只有人类才拥有的那份温暖,最终伴随着正义觉醒。也正是这抹温柔,让他得到了恶魔原本所没有的,守护除了自己以外其他人的力量。若魔帝明白这点的话,他就一定能想到自己无法战胜斯巴达。若魔帝能够理解正义之心,他就一定不会对人类界展开侵略。换言之,只要我与我未来的子孙还存在于这个世界上,那么穆图斯的野心就永远不会得逞。
被吾狩猎,恶魔皆泣也。
但是,没有心的那些��伙是不会流泪的。在感情达到顶峰时流泪的这种行为,是拥有一颗会为别人着想的心的人类的特权。也是身为人类的证据。若此物泪流满面,那么它就不再是恶魔了。
因此,我将店门口的看板做了一些改动。便利店的新名字是「Devil Never Cry」。还记得之前某人从正门闯入。由于那个时候的骚动,以至于地面上留下了烧焦的痕迹,所以稍微改装一下也并不是什么坏事。
虽然改了名字,但本店所受理的业务没有改变。要是有人卷入了什么棘手的事件,记得给店里打电话。对了,打电话的时候别忘记说暗号。
除此之外,接电话的人可能会是其他的人类。要是因为对方元气的声音就忘记要委托的内容而闲聊起来的话,我会很困扰哦?这可是曾经只想着要复仇的我,好不容易找到的,人生中新的搭档。
看来今晚也要忙工作了。我打算沐浴着温柔的月光,用出门约会的心境完成这份委托。
下次再见。
The demons are also heartless.
In short, they cannot understand the meaning of love. In particular, the obscurity of longing for someone else, the urge to protect someone - such complex emotions - are something they do not have as demons.
What they have in their hearts is a brutal desire to trample on the weak, and a deep-seated hatred of all that they see. This is a virtue that is essential for a demon to survive in the demon world. And the more powerful the negative emotions, the more they can become the rulers of that world. That's the way demons deal with the world.
However, I believe that this spiritual construct, which lacks the knowledge of love, is the greatest weakness of demons. The reason why demons, who are physically and intellectually superior to humans, have not been able to take over the earthly world so far is that they despise the great heart that is strong and brave and fights only for justice.
When love for someone explodes in a moment and then turns to anger, the human spirit is capable of unparalleled power. A demon, born without emotion, can only use half of this power, even if it is called the source of magic, no matter how hard he tries.
It was for this reason that, two thousand years ago, the demon emperor Mundus, who had the power of the flood and was on a par with the gods, was defeated by my father, the demon swordsman Sparda. The warmth that filled my father's heart, which only humans possess, eventually accompanied the awakening of justice. It was this same tenderness that gave him the power to guard others besides himself that the demon did not originally have. If the Demon Emperor had understood this, he would have been able to think that he could not defeat Sparda. If the Demon Emperor had been able to understand the heart of justice, he would certainly not have launched an invasion of the human realm. In other words, as long as I and my future descendants exist in this world, the ambitions of Mundus will never be fulfilled.
Hunted by me, the demons all weep.
But those without hearts do not shed tears. The act of shedding tears at the peak of emotion is the privilege of a human being who has a heart that thinks of others. It is also evidence of being human. If this thing sheds tears, then it is no longer a demon.
Therefore, I made some changes to the signboard in front of the shop. The new name of the convenience store is 'Devil Never Cry'. I remember when someone broke in through the front door. There was such a commotion at that time that there were burn marks left on the floor, so a slight modification wasn't a bad thing.
Although the name has been changed, the business that the shop handles remains the same. If anyone is involved in any difficult incidents, remember to call the shop. Don't forget to say the code word when you call.
Other than that, the person who answers the phone may be another human being. I'd be troubled if I forgot what I was entrusted with because of the genki voice on the other end, wouldn't I? This is the new partner in my life that I've managed to find after a long time of thinking only about revenge.
I guess I'll be busy with work tonight too. I'm going to finish this commission in the gentle light of the moon and in the same frame of mind as if I were going out on a date.
See you next time.
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【父亲心中所充斥着的只有人类才拥有的那份温暖,最终伴随着正义觉醒。也正是这抹温柔,让他得到了恶魔原本所没有的,守护除了自己以外其他人的力量。若魔帝明白这点的话,他就一定能想到自己无法战胜斯巴达。】
从这段话里面可以看出但丁认为“守护他者”的力量是凌驾在“守护自己”的力量之上的,当然,无法保护自己的人同样无法守护他者。这种朴素的真理已经不再需要重复的解析。
所以,也可以解读为但丁认为拥有两种力量的斯巴达比仅仅只有一种力量的蒙杜斯强,而蒙杜斯入侵人类世界是不正义行为。
在DMC1中显然还没有一个世界分为两个世界的这个事情,所以也就暂时不存在那种类似于,本身有人找到某个地方在那边生存,因为战争被迫离开了,而在千百年后被迫离开的人回来并要求复国,都在那里住了千百年的人当然一百个不愿意,导致发生不可避免逆转流血事件。
自然也没有为了让人类活下去,逆反了自然规律,从而引发身份的逆转带来理想的覆灭痛苦。
毕竟历代对魔界的恶魔入侵人类世界这个问题上,显然是存在自然规律,而且是无法避免的,斯巴达无论怎么封印,都拦不住,能够拦住只是实力非常强那部分而已,当然能拦住那部分对人类而言已经好的不能更好了。
人类绝对不会侵犯魔界毕竟还是建立在,人类并不知道魔界的存在以及人类脆弱的肉体无法抵抗恶魔。当然如果找对正确的关键词,也许魔界的恶魔就会人类杀成保护动物了呢。
不过这个并不是本文的重点,所以在此跳过吧。
但丁是否拒绝力量呢?在DMC3的漫画中阿卡姆曾经询问但丁难道不渴望得到力量为母报仇吗?但丁当时是没有任何回答的。
可以肯定但丁肯定想要保护自己的母亲,那么如果自己太弱那么自然是无法保护母亲的,肯定要变强的,变强就意味着需要力量,强大也许有很多种,但需要跟恶魔战斗的话,那力量显然必不可少。
所以又怎么会不想要呢?如果不想要那不就意味着他并不想要能够保护母亲的力量吗?他想要母亲保护他吗?
至少但丁为什么没有回答,这不是此文想要讨论的东西,所以在此跳过。
[The warmth that filled his father's heart, which only humans possess, eventually awakened with justice. It was this same tenderness that gave him the power to guard others besides himself, which the demon did not have originally. If the demon emperor had understood this, he would have thought that he could not defeat Sparda].
It is clear from this passage that Dante believes that the power of "guarding the other" overrides the power of "guarding oneself", and that, of course, he who cannot protect himself cannot also protect the other. This simple truth no longer requires repetition.
So, it can also be interpreted that Dante believes that Sparta, with its two powers, is stronger than Mundus, with only one, and that Mundus' invasion of the human world is an act of injustice.
In DMC1 there is apparently no such thing as a world divided into two worlds yet, so there is no such thing as, for the moment, something like, per se, someone finds some place to survive over there, is forced to leave because of a war, and after a thousand years the people who were forced to leave come back and demand restoration, and of course the people who have all lived there for a thousand years are a hundred times more reluctant, leading to an inevitable reversal of the bloodshed.
Naturally there was no reversal of the laws of nature in order to keep the humans alive, thus triggering a reversal of identity bringing the pain of the overthrow of the ideal.
After all, successive generations of the demons of the demonic world invaded the human world on this issue, it is clear that there is a law of nature, and it is unavoidable, Sparta no matter how to seal, can not stop, can stop only the very strong that part of it, of course can stop that part of it for the human race has been good can not be better.
The fact that humans will never invade the demonic world is, after all, based on the fact that humans are unaware of its existence and that human flesh is too weak to resist demons. Of course, if we look for the right keywords, perhaps the demons in the demon world will be killed by humans as protected animals.
But this is not the focus of this article, so let's skip it here.
Does Dante reject power? In the DMC3 comic Arkham once asked Dante if he didn't desire the power to avenge his mother. Dante had no answer at the time.
It is certain that Dante wants to protect his mother, so if he is too weak then naturally he can't protect her, so he must become stronger.
So how could he not want it? If he doesn't want it, doesn't that mean he doesn't want the power to protect his mother? Did he want his mother to protect him?
At least why Dante doesn't answer that is not what this article is about, so I'll skip it here.
保护这个词多少带点未雨绸缪的意思在里面的。
保护一般意义上,是指尽力照顾,使自身(或他人、或其他事物)的权益/生命不受损害,需要在其受到损害之前被保护起来在里面。在伤害已经无法挽回,只能尽力保住剩下的能够延续与存活,就像文物古籍、快灭绝的动物。并不是伤害已经发生完,而是伤害正在发生,还能抢救或者预防之后的伤害。当然已经彻底损害的东西是无法再去保护的。保护他者的性命前提是,他者还活着而不是死亡。而且也享有一个共同点,那就是以受害者/事物的生命、延续为其第一要务,其他行为都需要服务这个要务。
The word protection has a more or less proactive connotation to it.
To protect in a general sense means to try to take care that one's own (or another person's, or something else's) rights/life are not harmed and need to be protected in it before they are harmed. Where the harm has been irreparable and one can only try to preserve what is left to be able to continue and survive, as in the case of heritage antiquities and animals that are going extinct. It is not that the damage has been done, but that the damage is happening and can be saved or prevented later. Of course what has been completely damaged can no longer be protected. The protection of the life of the Other presupposes that the Other is alive and not dead. And also enjoy a common point in that the life, the continuation of the victim/thing is its first priority, and all other actions need to serve this priority.
这两种无论从心态还是出发点是不一样的。一个更注重于生命/伤者,所以当灾难/事情的时候他第一个反应就是应该要去帮助那些人,也可以说这样的人理智还在线,一个则被愤怒冲昏头脑,不顾眼前急需拯救的人也不顾自己性命与其他人的性命,想去击杀敌人,后者击杀敌人的欲望与冲动即便在让其冷静去救人,他脑子里面想也不是,我应该要去救人,而是我要将敌人杀死。
他们都会愤怒,但一个行为是保护他者,拯救他者,另一个通常是杀敌,如果是战争片,后者会安排其家属或者父母家庭被敌人伤害过,又或者是她本人被欺骗,他加入的原因不是救人,他是来复仇的或者是其他缘故。
去救人与还是击杀这是完全不同两种反应,这种不同反应直接关系到他们内心的想法。
These two are not the same in either mindset or starting point. One is more focused on the life/injured, so when a disaster/thing happens his first reaction is that he should go and help those people, and it can be said that such a person's reason is still intact, while the other is overwhelmed by anger and wants to kill the enemy without regard for the people in front of him or for his own life and the lives of others. I should save people, but I should kill the enemy.
They are both angry, but one acts to protect the other, to save the other, the other usually kills the enemy, and if it is a war film, the latter will arrange for his family or parents' family to have been harmed by the enemy, or for her to have been cheated, and he joins not to save, he comes to take revenge or for some other reason.
Going to the rescue versus still striking out are two completely different reactions, and this different reaction is directly related to their innermost thoughts.
在2018年发售的《古墓丽影:暗影(Shadow of the Tomb Raider)》中,主角劳拉·克劳馥在面对因为东西被拿走引发巨大灾难之中,她无视那些被洪水淹没的人并没有打算去挽救他们,而想拼命去追击敌人。
在这里劳拉内心充满对敌人的仇恨与愤怒,她的情绪与思想没有任何一丝去��虑眼前那些即将被大洪水淹没的人,虽然口中全是为世界着想,却一点都不去想眼前这些明明可以挽救的人也应该去拯救与保护他们,去挽救他们。当然也可以说她在逃避。
但她一开始去探索那些古墓也并不是为了阻止什么邪恶的阴谋,而是她只想解开父亲留下的谜团,他的搭档反而渴望能够多拯救一些人,正因为出发点与动力不一致导致行为也并不一样,也出现剧情中他搭档对她非常愤怒。
In Shadow of the Tomb Raider, released in 2018, the protagonist Lara Croft, faced with a huge disaster caused by something being taken away from her, ignores those who are flooded and has no intention of saving them, but instead tries to go after the enemy.
Here Laura's heart is filled with hatred and anger towards her enemies, and her emotions and thoughts have no regard for the people who are about to be flooded. One could certainly say that she was running away.
But she doesn't start out exploring the tombs to stop some evil plot, she just wants to solve the mystery of her father's legacy, while her partner is eager to save more people, and it's because the starting point and motivation are not the same that she acts differently, and it also appears in the episode that her partner is very angry with her.
而在《鬼泣 巅峰之战之战》这款手游中但丁与格里芬战斗,可是在最后让其逃脱了,同时导致了城市遭受严重的破坏,城市充斥的大量恶魔,无数居民生命不是已经受到威胁就是在被受到威胁的路上。
回到自己事务所的但丁并没有考虑先去拯救街道上还活着的人,让他们撤离到安全地方去。而是与劳拉一样满脑子想要追击敌人把东西抢回来。显然挽救城市居民并没有在他当时脑海之中。当然但丁一开始也并不是奔着要守护群众才去拿水晶的。
Dante fights Griffin in 《DMC Battle at the Top》, but lets him escape at the end, causing serious damage to the city, which is flooded with demons and has countless residents whose lives are either already threatened or on their way to being threatened.
Back at his office, Dante did not consider saving the people still alive in the streets and evacuating them to safety. Instead, like Laura, he was filled with the desire to chase down the enemy and get his things back. Obviously saving the inhabitants of the city was not on his mind at the time. Of course Dante didn't start out running to guard the masses before he went to get the crystal.
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而在DMC4中但丁也做过类似的行为,在屠佛那不可控制要被大量恶魔入侵的时候,他也并没有选择先与翠西一样疏散那些无辜群众,先保证他们的安全再去击杀教皇他们。而在DMC4中但丁也并不是为了拯救度佛那人民而行动,而是他也在争夺阎魔刀。
在DMC4小说中他也正面承认,他根本也没拿工作当成一回事,是带着度假般的心情的。
当然但丁的性格问题也是需要考虑, 在DMC3漫画赠送角色设定中。
【刹那主义,享乐主义在内心深处,对于既不是恶魔也不是人类的自己抱有劣等感。不是多么的爱惜自己,把自身性命当儿戏,鲁莽敢干。】
And in DMC4 Dante did a similar act, when Tuverna was uncontrollably about to be invaded by a mass of demons, he too did not choose to evacuate those innocent people first, as did Trixie, to ensure their safety first before going to kill the Pope and the others. And in DMC4 Dante is not acting to save the people of Tuverna, but he is also fighting for the sword of Hades.
In the DMC4 novels he also admits upfront that he doesn't take his job seriously at all either, and is in a holiday-like mood.
Of course the question of Dante's character needs to be considered, too, in the DMC3 manga giveaway characterisation.
[Shaktivism, hedonism at heart, a sense of inferiority to himself who is neither evil nor human. Not much of a lover of himself, treats his own life like a child, is reckless and daring].
对于但丁形容里面似乎带点他这个人比较鲁莽,那么对于村庄被恶魔袭击,地上还躺着还能挽救的普通人,没有选择先去尽力挽救那些人,而是非常愤怒想去提刀杀敌,又因他本身就憎恨恶魔,所以无论是性格还是他的动力上导致他做出那样行为都是合情合理。
当然这些只是作为一个参考,说明一开始的出发点或者说动力不一致导致行为与思维方式也有所不同。并不是说他们就是完全不在乎人命,而是站在角度与动力、感情会影响他们行动。
这开始他战斗理由之间产生矛盾。
正如DMC5中但丁对父亲不满与自嘲,复仇。
Dante's description seems to suggest that he was reckless, so it makes sense that when the village was attacked by demons and there were ordinary people lying on the ground who could still be saved, instead of trying to save those people first, he was so angry that he wanted to kill them with his sword, and because he hated demons himself, both his character and his motivation led him to act in that way.
Of course, this is just a reference to the different starting points or motivations that led to different behaviours and ways of thinking in the first place. It's not that they just don't care about human life at all, but the perspective and motivation and feelings they stand for can influence their actions.
This begins to create a contradiction between his reasons for fighting.
As in DMC5 Dante is discontent and self-deprecating towards his father and revenge.
在这里但丁自述魔力之源是【当对于某个人的爱在一瞬间爆发,并随即转变为愤怒的时候,人类强大的精神便能发挥出无与伦比的力量。】
这就让人产生疑问,对一个人爱爆发为何就随之转变愤怒呢?你爆发爱意然后就愤怒你爱的对象吗?难道不应该充满怜爱之类的吗?那这个愤怒对象必然不是所爱之人。那会在什么样情况下,对所爱之人爆发了爱意并随之转化成愤怒?
如果要设想这样的场面,那么很自然其实会想到就是自己所爱之人被伤害的场景,从而让我们无比愤怒想要杀掉伤害他们的人。
但这是DMC1但丁所说的话,而DMC1故事实际上就提供了这个答案,在过场动画中,是可以看到但丁爆发对“母亲”的爱,并随之转化为对蒙杜斯的愤怒,也说出那句台词“母亲的仇”。
Here Dante describes the source of his magic as [the unparalleled power of the powerful human spirit when love for someone explodes in a moment and is then transformed into anger].
This begs the question, why does love for someone explode and then turn into anger? Do you explode with love and then become angry at the person you love? Shouldn't you be filled with compassion and love? Then the object of that anger must not be the loved one. Under what circumstances, then, would love for the loved one break out and turn into anger?
If we were to imagine such a scenario, it would be natural to think of a scene in which the person we love is hurt, which would make us angry enough to want to kill the person who hurt them.
But these are the words of Dante in DMC1, and the DMC1 story actually provides the answer to this, as Dante is seen in the overworld animation bursting with love for his "mother", which translates into anger at Mundus, and the line "Mother's revenge ".
而在《Precious Tears》这本书中可以找到一个参考。
A reference to this can be found in the book Precious Tears.
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一道闪光向着呆住的但丁袭来。
但那时,但丁的眼睛被染成了深红色。
就像激情燃烧的火焰,就像释放黑暗波动的恶魔。
魔帝发出的闪光,受到了世间不同的力量的反弹,极大地改变了轨道。
A flash of light came towards the frozen Dante.
But then, Dante's eyes were tinted crimson.
Like a fire burning with passion, like a demon releasing a dark wave.
The flash of light from the Devil Emperor was met with a rebound of different forces in the world, greatly altering the orbit.
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从身心深处释放出魔力,但丁将其自身变成了魔人。
从地上跃起,飞向无限广阔的黑暗天空。
在那深红的眼睛里,只映出魔帝的暗灰色的身影。
Releasing magic from the depths of his mind and body, Dante transforms himself into a demon.
Leaping up from the ground, he flew into the infinite expanse of the dark sky.
In those crimson eyes, only the dark grey figure of the Demon Emperor was reflected.
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从DMC1场景与这些描述中,可以看到这是一种情绪爆发与宣泄并转化为魔力,同样描述在DMC2小说中也有描述,DMC2小说中兽首能力就是一个将情绪转化为魔力,而看到过去记忆并感受到巨大情感洪流的但丁同样回复了魔力,这个转化过程是相同的。
可是这种情况并不是保护,而是因为失去其应该“保护”/“所爱”的对象,从而爆发的对敌人的愤怒,就像一些新闻里面,失去孩子的父母看到伤害自己孩子凶手,就会变得无比愤怒并不顾一切冲过去。
恶魔是不是都不能理解这种感情呢?虽然不能就此断言全部都是,至少蒙杜斯肯定是不会理解。固然这种状态下的人有着强烈的情感加持,能够爆发出非常恐怖力量,但情绪激动或者过于激烈的人是处于一种并不理智的状态,也就是难以自控、或者说失控,但这并不是要讨论这个代价是什么。
From the DMC1 scenes and these descriptions, we can see that this is a kind of emotional outburst and catharsis that is transformed into magic, the same description is also described in the DMC2 novels, where the beast's head ability is a transformation of emotions into magic, and Dante, who sees the memories of the past and feels a huge flood of emotions, also regains his magic, this transformation process is the same.
However, this is not a case of protection, but of rage against an enemy because of the loss of the one he is supposed to "protect"/"love", just as in some news stories where parents who have lost their children see their child's murderer and become overwhelmed with rage and They are like parents who have lost a child, who see the murderer of their child and become so furious that they rush over to him.
Are all demons incapable of understanding such feelings? Although it cannot be said that they all do, Mundus at least certainly does not understand them. While it is true that people in this state have strong emotions added to them and are capable of very terrifying outbursts of power, the emotionally charged or overly intense person is in a state that is not rational, that is, difficult to control, or out of control, but this is not to discuss what the cost of this is.
如果我们重新再看一次这样的事情。
他是在保护吗?
不是,因为被保护对象已经死亡。
那么他这样的行为是什么?所爱之人躺在地上已经死亡,他说出母亲的仇并愤怒冲去敌人。
是的,他是在复仇,而不是保护。
If we look at something like this again.
Is he protecting?
No, because the protected object is dead.
So what is he doing by acting in this way? The loved one lies dead on the ground, he speaks of his mother's revenge and rushes in anger to his enemy.
Yes, he is taking revenge, not protecting.
也可以说因为害怕失去,但是当我们害怕失去一个人的时候,首先感觉是恐惧而不会是愤怒。因为很恐惧这个事情发生,为了不让这个事情发生反而会很努力,所以看起来很愤怒。但在游戏中但丁的台词是“母亲的仇”,所以完全切断这种可能性。
One could also say that it was out of fear of loss, but when we fear losing someone, the first thing we feel is fear and not anger. It seems angry because there is a great fear of this happening and a great effort to keep it from happening instead. But in the game Dante's line is "mother's revenge", so this possibility is completely cut off.
而这一句【当对于某个人的爱在一瞬间爆发,并随即转变为愤怒的时候,人类强大的精神便能发挥出无与伦比的力量。】
是在他复仇的时候,是他愤怒的时候。是爱的力量,但是失去所爱而爆发的愤怒的,想要复仇的行为。
通过感情的爆发出无与伦比的力量这是真的,而这份情感是人类的这也是真的,但丁渴望保护他者吗?至少他肯定渴望保护他的母亲。这句话与他DMC1中行为所展示的并不是【保护】而是【复仇】他这种感情爆发与他认为这就是力量之源。确实如同DMC5中对叛逆的解析。
是复仇之力,而不是保护之力。
And the phrase [When love for someone explodes in a moment and is then transformed into anger, the mighty human spirit can exert unparalleled power].
It was in his revenge, it was in his anger. It is the power of love, but the anger that erupts from the loss of what is loved, the desire for revenge.
It is true that the outburst of power is unparalleled through emotion, and it is also true that this emotion is human. At least he must have longed to protect his mother. This statement is consistent with the fact that his actions in DMC1 demonstrate not [protection] but [revenge], and that this outburst of emotion is the source of his power. Indeed as in the parsing of rebellion in DMC5.
It is the power of revenge, not the power of protection.
当然但丁杀死蒙杜斯完全就是因为私人仇恨,蒙杜斯入侵人类世界不过只是这个问题上一个添头,或者说增加更多的正当性。蒙杜斯不入侵人类世界,但丁就会打算放过蒙杜斯吗?
显然并不会,毕竟为母亲报仇可是但丁人生目的。在DMC5中但丁认为杀死与人为敌的恶魔是他的使命。
但有人被恶魔伤害了,你去杀死那个恶魔,不一定你是在保护那个人在拯救那个人,因为那个人可能就已经被害或者需要的是先送往医院急救,而不是击杀眼前的伤害他的人,但有一点确实很明确的,如果选择去追击/追杀那个人伤害人恶魔,那你肯定帮了那个人受害者对恶魔进行复仇。
从另一层意义上来说,但丁是确实是为复仇而生的。
Of course Dante kills Mundus purely out of personal hatred, and Mundus' invasion of the human world is just an add-on to this issue, or to add more legitimacy. Would Dante have been prepared to let Mondus go if he hadn't invaded the human world?
Obviously not, after all, avenging his mother is Dante's purpose in life. In DMC5 Dante sees it as his mission to kill demons who are enemies of man.
But when someone is hurt by a demon and you go to kill that demon, you are not necessarily protecting that person and saving that person, because that person may have been killed or may need to be taken to hospital first rather than killing the person who hurt them, but one thing is clear, if you choose to go after/hunt the demon who hurt the person, then you have definitely helped that person's victim to take revenge on the demon.
In another sense, Dante was literally made for revenge.
可这就像一个谬论,明明是因为不想失去,可是他这种感情爆发却是因为失去才爆发的。也许他希望能够保护自己母亲,不失去自己家人,可他却以为家人复仇为人生的目的。
但在DMC5中但丁至少开始真正意义上去进行保护的行为,起码他确实在游戏开头选择自我牺牲让尼禄离开争取时间。在系列漫长的时间中,他确实开始靠近他想要的东西。
But it's like a fallacy that it's clearly because he doesn't want to lose, but this outburst of emotion he has is because of the loss. Maybe he wants to protect his mother and not lose his family, but his purpose in life is to avenge them.
But in DMC5 Dante at least starts to act in a real sense to protect, at least he does choose to self-sacrifice at the beginning of the game to allow Nero to leave to buy time. Over the course of the long series, he does start to get closer to what he wants.
想要保护家人也是需要自己家人还存在世上为前提的。
但也许问题也正出在这里,尼禄是维吉尔的孩子,如果但丁并不承认维吉尔是他的兄弟,那么尼禄自然也不会是他的侄子,毕竟他都不承认自己的兄弟,那么兄弟孩子又怎么会是他的侄子呢?
To protect your family, you need your family to be alive.
But perhaps that is where the problem lies. Nero is Vergil's child, and if Dante does not recognize Vergil as his brother, then naturally Nero cannot be his nephew either; after all, if he does not recognize his brother, then how can a brother's child be his nephew?
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noteofnaught · 3 years ago
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DMC中人与魔的对立如何构成强者与弱者之间的对立。
又名维吉尔的人类是弱者居然是对的,他一定作弊。
How the dichotomy between humans and demons in the DMC constitutes a dichotomy between the strong and the weak.
Aka Vergil is actually right about humans being weak, he must be cheating.
英文翻译依旧是Deepl。
有问题跟有意见请告诉我。
欢迎提出各种意见及讨论
The English translation is still Deepl.
Please let me know if you have any questions or comments.
All comments and discussions are welcome!
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这描述这段传说的时候,文本使用:慈しみ=慈しむ
慈しむ这个词在日语词典中有着:目下の者や弱い者に愛情を注ぐ。かわいがって大事にする。(大概:对下级/下位者、弱者表示关爱。 宠爱。)
如果看过同人志或者日本的R18刊物应该对这词很熟悉,因为会经常出现在台词里面:可愛がってやるよ❤
也被经常翻译为:我会很好痛爱你/好好宠爱你❤
存在上下级的关系的,是上位者对下位者说的话。
就像我的奶奶很痛爱/宠爱我。是正常句子。
但我很痛爱/宠爱我���奶奶。是病句。
如果下级对上级说这句话/这类话那就会:
1.写错了。
2.这个人说错话,没有礼貌。
3.这个人认为自己才是上级。
This description of the legend uses the text: 慈しみ=慈しむ
The word Ci Shimu is found in the Japanese dictionary as: 目下の者や弱い者に愛情を注ぐ。 かわいがって大事にする. (Probably: to show care for a subordinate/inferior person, a weak person. Favour.)
If you've read any of the Japanese R18 publications, you'll be familiar with this word, as it often appears in the lines: 可愛がってやるよ❤
It is also often translated as: I will love you very well painfully /I will spoil you well ❤
There is a superior-subordinate relationship, and it is something that is said by the superior to the inferior.
Just like my grandmother loved/spoiled me very much. It's a normal sentence.
But I adore/spoil my grandmother. is a sick sentence.
If a subordinate says this sentence/these kinds of words to a superior then it would be.
1. it is wrongly written.
2. The person says the wrong thing and has no manners.
3. The person thinks that he or she is the superior.
命儚き人の心=命(が)儚い人の心命儚い是说生命短暂,转瞬即逝。那么联系这段文本上下文,就是斯巴达为什么会与自己同胞敌对,并不是���同胞之间有深仇大恨,是他对生命脆弱转瞬即逝的人类产生怜悯之心。
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在DMC3的漫画开头介绍斯巴达传说的时候也用到一个词:弱き人这个词可以被翻译成弱小的人或者弱者。
这与上面的图上文本里面的描述是对应的,生命短暂而且脆弱人类对于拥有强大力量的恶魔是毫无疑问的弱者。同样在DMC3漫画中,阿卡姆曾经形容那些恶魔对于斯巴达而言就像孩童一般吧。那么比恶魔更脆弱的人类大概就如同婴儿吧。所以这算不算顾住照顾婴儿忘记自己另一个孩子呢?
命儚き人の心=命(が)儚い人の心
The word "命儚き" means that life is short and fleeting.
In the context of this text, the reason why the Sparda is hostile to his fellow man is not because he has a deep hatred for them, but because he has compassion for humans whose lives are fragile and fleeting.
At the beginning of the comic in DMC3, the Sparda legend is introduced with the word "弱き人", which can be translated as "weak".
This word can be translated as a weak person or a weak person. This corresponds to the description in the text above, where humans are short-lived and frail and are unquestionably weak to demons with great power.
Also in the DMC3 comic, Arkham describes the demons as being like children to the Sparda.
So humans, who are more vulnerable than demons, are probably like babies. So is this a case of taking care of a baby and forgetting about your other child?
这里的弱者自然是人类。人被定义为弱者,欺负弱者不对,所以保护弱者人类是正确的。
那之后为什么斯巴达还继续保护人类呢?斯巴达本身对人类有怜悯,那怜悯完应该也就是结束啦,这总不能在路边救个人,就要对人家终身安全负责了吧?
一个男人路上扶起一个女人总不能就要求人家女孩子嫁给他吧?同理要人家就去娶人家女孩子。
看见老奶奶遭遇抢劫帮忙把东西拿回来,怎么回头要变成得照顾老奶奶一辈子。
这很奇怪啊,怎么就变成因为救人就对那个有终身有不可推卸的责任。
对人类赎罪?斯巴达已经帮过人类啦,怎么还赎罪?
但无论是人类还是但丁好像也认为斯巴达对人类应该负责任。
所以,这应该是代替感,因为他让人类活下来了,类似长辈/父母心态。他并不是人类生物学意义上的父母,但因为他的缘故,人类活下来/诞生了,产生一种责任感,觉得自己对此有不可推卸的责任。
一个非生物学关系上父母。
斯巴达成为人类的新父亲,取代了旧父亲(造物主蒙杜斯)。
而父亲保护家庭是理所应当的事情,所以自然斯巴达保护人类世界也是理所应当的。
The weak here are naturally human beings. Man is defined as weak, and it is wrong to bully the weak, so it is right to protect the weak humans.
Why did Sparda continue to protect humans after that? The Sparda themselves have compassion for humans, and that should be the end of that compassion, which can't be the end of saving someone on the side of the road and being responsible for their safety for life, right?
A man who helps a woman on the road can't ask her to marry him, can he? The same applies to marrying a girl if you want her to.
If you see a grandmother being robbed and help her get her things back, how come you have to take care of her for the rest of your life?
It's strange how it becomes a lifelong responsibility to that person for saving her life.
Atonement for humanity? Sparda has already helped humans, so how can he atone for his sins?
But both humans and Dante seem to think that Sparta is responsible for humans.
So it's supposed to be a sense of substitution, because he kept humanity alive, similar to the elder/parent mentality. He is not a parent in the biological sense of the human race, but because of him the human race survived/was born, creating a sense of responsibility and a feeling of inescapable responsibility for it.
A parent in a non-biological sense.
Sparda becomes the new father of mankind, replacing the old father (Mundus, the Creator).
And as it is only right for a father to protect his family, so naturally it is only right for Sparta to protect the human world.
在《the trinity of fates》但丁角色介绍中描述有提及,但丁打算贯彻跟他父亲一样的正义,选择保护弱者的道路。
As mentioned in the description of Dante's character in "the trinity of fates", Dante intends to follow the same path of justice as his father, choosing to protect the weak.
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弱者这个词再次出现,而但丁保护人类世界,显然弱者在这里指依旧是人类。
而在DMC3赠送解说书中,被恶魔的迷住从而想要登塔前往魔界的人,他们被恶魔的力量迷住了。被评价为这是恶的。
恶魔的力量也可以用作善的行为上,难道斯巴达不就是在用恶魔的力量行善吗?他不是救人了吗?但让人想去登塔想获得恶魔力量就是作恶,而DMC3中塔原型显然而见的巴比塔,是一座人类渴望接近上帝才制造的塔,人类居然妄图与神比肩,傲慢的人类自然受到了惩罚。而DMC3中阿卡姆的最终目的就是成神,与这座塔完美对应。
但人类想要恶魔力量想要变强与神比肩怎么就恶了?就不能拿恶魔力量做好事吗?难道人类不可以自己保护自己吗?除非说,恶魔的力量本身就是有可怕的黑幕。
在DMC3漫画中,爱丽丝其实展示过如何从人变成恶魔,这个过程只需要吸收人的鲜血即可,吸血本质其实就是吃人,但吸血看起来比直接吃在艺术上更让人容易接受一点,当你吸食足够多就可以达成从人到恶魔的转变,而DMC5会更直接,恶魔的力量就是人的鲜血,那也意味着这两者其实并不存在绝对屏障,是可以转化的。
而你击杀恶魔的得到恶魔鲜血,也被戏称为红魂,
这个红魂的英文是orb,而日文是这个英文片假名。
The word weak reappears, and with Dante protecting the human world, it is clear that weak in this case refers to still humans.
And in the DMC3 giveaway commentary book, those who are enchanted by the demon's and thus want to climb the tower to the demon world, they are enchanted by the demon's power. are evaluated as this being evil.
Demonic power can also be used as an act on good, isn't Sparda using demonic power for good? Didn't he save people? But to make people want to go up the tower and try to gain demonic power is to do evil, and the tower prototype in DMC3 is clearly seen as the Tower of Babylon, a tower made by humans who desire to be close to God, and humans who actually try to match God, and arrogant humans are naturally punished. And the ultimate goal of Arkham in DMC3 is to become a god, which corresponds perfectly with this tower.
But how is it evil for humans to want demonic power to become stronger than the gods? Can't they do good with demonic power? Can't humans protect themselves? Unless, say, demonic powers themselves are terribly shady.
In the DMC3 comic, Alice actually showed how to change from human to demon, a process that only requires absorbing human blood, blood sucking is actually eating people, but blood sucking seems a little more palatable than eating directly in art, when you suck enough you can reach the transformation from human to demon, whereas DMC5 would be more direct, demon power is human blood, that also means that the two actually There's no absolute barrier, it's transformable.
The demon blood you get from killing demons is also jokingly referred to as the red soul.
The English word for this red soul is orb, and the Japanese is this English katakana.
Orb在英语牛津词典中解析是有两个1.(literary) 球体;(尤指)日,月2王权宝球(国王或女王在正式仪式上携带的顶部饰十字架的金球,是权力的象征)日月都有红色的时候,在民俗与宗教上一般都会属于不好的日子,日月都有权威式的象征,而第二个,王权的宝球也被誉为“金苹果”也更加直接,直指权力。
在游戏里面,我们是使用这个东西跟时空女神进行交易,从而提升我们的“力量”。
所以,我们从恶魔身上获得红魂,在DMC1里面就标记为恶魔鲜血的凝结,恶魔的权力就是它们的鲜血,那应该是2“金苹果”。而根据DMC5中恶魔的力量=人血,而恶魔是将人血吸入体内的(参见小蚂蚁),那么击败恶魔从他们体内流出来的东西,自然也是“人血”,那么用于提升我们力量的东西,应该是一样。
当然这比起直接杀人取血,类似于吸血鬼的血的吸血鬼,恶魔收集人类鲜血储备起来让自己变的肥美,然后我们去狩猎这些恶魔,颇有一点自欺欺人的味道,从整体对人类来说还是有益的,所以这不是特别大的问题。人变成恶魔的方式是通过伤害他者来进行的,而伤害他者的行为肯定是不对的。
Orb in the English Oxford Dictionary is parsed as having two 1.(literary) a sphere; (especially) the sun, the moon 2 the royal sphere (a golden sphere decorated with a cross at the top, carried by the king or queen in formal ceremonies, a symbol of power) the sun and the moon are both red at times, and in folklore and religion would generally fall into the category of bad days, the sun and the moon both having authoritative symbols, while the second, the royal sphere is also known as the The second, the golden apple, is also known as the "golden apple" and is more direct, referring to power.
In the game, we use this to trade with the Goddess of Time and Space to increase our 'power'.
So, we get the red soul from the demon, which in DMC1 is marked as a congealment of demon blood, and the demon's power is their blood, which would be the 2 "golden apples". And since in DMC5 the demon's power = human blood, and demons breathe human blood into their bodies (see Empusa), what comes out of them when they are defeated is naturally "human blood", so what is used to boost our power would be the same.
Of course this is a bit more self-defeating than just killing people for blood, similar to vampirism, where demons collect human blood to fatten themselves up and then we hunt these demons, but it's still good for humanity overall, so it's not a particularly big deal. The way people become demons is by harming the other, and harming the other is certainly not right.
弱者并不意味着不会做坏事,弱者也不一定会帮助弱者,甚至弱者也会欺负弱者,有可能比强者欺负更狠。欺负弱者不对,那么是不是也应该惩罚那些做坏事的弱者呢?当然也可以说,保护比“自己弱小的”,但这个弱小是不包括恶魔的,因为大部分恶魔肯定比但丁跟斯巴达弱小的太多了,有些恶魔的杀死的人类,说不定真的是十恶不赦的坏人呢?而且要这样的话但丁与斯巴达行为也只是在用他们绝对的力量碾压比他们弱小的恶魔而已。
所以“保护比自己弱小”并不是相对的弱小,一只恶魔底层中底层恶魔都要比普通人类强的多,不借助现代科技一般来说很难击退它,别说杀死它们了,所以是绝对弱小。
人类绝对弱小的,强者应该保护弱者的话,那么就不能够随便去伤害绝对弱小的人类。
保护弱者是善,自然伤害弱者自然就是恶。那么伤害绝对弱小就是恶中恶了。
同时要遵守伤害弱者是错误的话,那不免就要面对作为弱者的人类如何花样伤害同为弱者的人类同胞。而没有人是完美的。
所以,通过产生一个极端的例子,伤害(弱者)的人转化为恶魔(强者),去人(弱者)化,从而缓冲掉矛盾,将其灭杀。就像上面的人如何变成恶魔的过程一样。
The weak do not mean that they will not do bad things, nor will the weak necessarily help the weak, and even the weak will bully the weak, possibly even harder than the strong. If it is wrong to bully the weak, then shouldn't the weak who do bad things also be punished? Of course, one could say that one protects those who are "weaker than oneself", but this weakness does not include demons, because most demons are certainly much weaker than Dante and Spartan, and some of the humans that demons kill may be really evil and bad? And in that case Dante and Spartan are only using their absolute power to crush demons who are weaker than them.
So "protecting the weaker than themselves" is not a relative weakness, a demon is much stronger than the average human at the bottom of the demon hierarchy, and it is generally very difficult to repel them, let alone kill them, without the use of modern technology, so it is absolute weakness.
If humans are absolutely weak, and the strong should protect the weak, then they cannot just go around hurting absolutely weak humans.
To protect the weak is good, but to harm the weak is naturally evil. Then harming the absolutely weak is the evil of evils.
At the same time, if it is wrong to harm the weak, then it is inevitable to face how the human being who is the weak is fancy enough to harm his fellow human beings who are also weak. And no one is perfect.
So by generating an extreme example of harming (the weak) people transformed into demons (the strong) and de-humanised (the weak), thus buffering out the conflict and extinguishing it. Just like the process above of how a person becomes a demon.
那么,强者=恶魔,弱者=人类,人魔之间的对立同时也构成强者与弱者之间对立。
也顺带意味着,但丁站在弱者那一方。当然,也可以说他想成为弱者。但他又不断强调人类也有很强的地方,又否定人类的弱者属性。
但同样的,弱者在本质上并不意味着善。这不是根据善恶与善恶的行为来选择的,而是根据立场。
To protect the weak is good, but to harm the weak is naturally evil. Then harming the absolutely weak is the evil of evils.
At the same time, if it is wrong to harm the weak, then it is inevitable to face how the human being who is the weak is fancy enough to harm his fellow human beings who are also weak. And no one is perfect.
So by generating an extreme example of harming (the weak) people transformed into demons (the strong) and de-humanised (the weak), thus buffering out the conflict and extinguishing it. Just like the process above of how a person becomes a demon.
The strong = demons, then, the weak = humans, and the opposition between man and demon at the same time constitutes an opposition between the strong and the weak.
It also means, incidentally, that Dante is on the side of the weak. Of course, one could say that he wants to be the underdog. But then he constantly emphasises that there is something very strong about human beings, and denies their weakness.
But again, weakness does not by nature imply goodness. It is not a choice based on good and evil versus good and evil actions, but on position.
也顺带意味着,但丁站在弱者那一方。
当然,也可以说他想成为弱者。但他又不断强调人类也有很强的地方,又否定人类的弱者属性。
但同样的,弱者在本质上并不意味着善。这不是根据善恶与善恶的行为来选择的,而是根据立场。
同样这引申出另外一个问题,那就是弱者团结起来可以对抗强者,但作为个体,弱者是无法抵抗强者的。
而处于DMC这种绝对弱者的状态,保护弱者的前提必须成为强者。
这就像一个无限的循坏,成为强者保护弱者,而成为强者同时也遭受到否定。
世界一开始是二元对比的,但随着世界的运转,简单的黑白理论开始失衡。
在DMC不少官方描述中,恶魔世界时间是停止的。
因为为了让理论不失衡,世界必须是静态的。
作为绝对弱者的人类一直其实都没有可以真正改变。因为强弱的结构根本就没有被打破过,所以只能够诉诸“尊重”或“承认”。
而DMC5企图超越“强者-弱者”的对立结构,通过承认自己的弱点,将强者与弱者的之间界线模糊化,达成强者与弱者互相扶持活下来的变动。
It also means, incidentally, that Dante is on the side of the underdog.
Of course, it could also be said that he wants to be the underdog. But then he constantly emphasises that there is also something very strong about human beings, and again denies the weakness of their attributes.
But again, weakness does not by nature imply goodness. It is not a choice based on good or evil versus good or evil actions, but on position.
Again this leads to another issue, which is that the weak united can stand against the strong, but as individuals the weak cannot resist the strong.
And in a state of absolute weakness like the DMC, the prerequisite for protecting the weak must be to become strong.
It is like an infinite cycle of bad, where becoming strong protects the weak, and becoming strong suffers at the same time from negation.
The human being as absolute weakness has never really been able to change. Because the structure of strength and weakness has never been broken at all, it is only possible to resort to "respect" or "recognition".
The DMC5 attempts to transcend the "strong-weak" dichotomy by acknowledging their weaknesses, blurring the line between the strong and the weak, and achieving a change in which the strong and the weak support each other to survive.
The world started out as a binary contrast, but as the world went on, the simple black and white theory started to get out of balance.
In quite a few official DMC descriptions, demon world time is stopped.
This is because in order for the theory not to be out of balance, the world has to be static.
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noteofnaught · 3 years ago
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With the mindset of "I've done one, so I'll do the other". The DMC4 booklet contains a description of the city and a report on Nero's injuries before the game begins.
English is Deepl.
If there are any errors or problems please contact me and I will fix them.(2 C 3 E)
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noteofnaught · 3 years ago
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Found this while sorting through stuff.
Inside the DMC4 giveaway booklet on Spartan lore.
English responsible or Deepl
If there is a problem or an error there, please let me know so I can fix it
Figure 2 is in Chinese Figure 3 is in English
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noteofnaught · 3 years ago
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A slight translation of the introduction inside the DMC2 brochure. It's basically a side-story of the worldview in DMC.
English is responsible or Deepl. If there are any errors or problems please contact me and I will fix them. (Figure 2 Chinese Figure 3 English)
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noteofnaught · 3 years ago
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关于但丁与他母亲之间依恋。
主要是从“母亲为救我而死”到母亲想救的是谁对但丁有啥影响。
It is mainly from "my mother died to save me" to how who she wanted to save affected Dante.
依恋与安全感
Attachment and security
依恋是一个心理学名词,在许多心理学上都有一个共同的认识,那就是依恋很重要,这会影响我们的���生,而且不但是小孩子需要,成年人一样需要。而依恋是一个很强大的关系,他不但可以让我们更好,也有能力摧毁我们,并会产生依恋模式的代际遗传。
Attachment is a psychological term that is common to much of psychology, that it is important, that it affects us throughout our lives, and that it is not only needed by children but also by adults. And attachment is a powerful relationship that not only makes us better, but also has the power to destroy us and to create intergenerational inheritance of attachment patterns.
而这种依恋模式最初是父母带给孩子的,如果父母有自己无法处理的创伤、情绪等等。从而导致他们做出伤害孩子的行为,或者一些很可怕的行为,让孩子感觉到害怕。孩子一��依恋着父母,因为父母会给他们带来安全感,一边想要逃离他们的父母,因为父母让他们感觉到害怕了。这种体验会让孩子感觉到混乱,从而产生出孩子的控制的、父母角色对调行为,使用同样的手段去“解决”无法解决的问题。
就像经常听到的那样,有什么样的父母就有什么样的孩子,父母怎么对待孩子,孩子怎么对待别人。如果孩子犯错误了,那他的父母必然不全然无辜。因为这就是父母给予他们的。
And this attachment pattern is initially brought to the child by the parents, if they have traumas, emotions etc. that they cannot deal with themselves. Which leads them to act in a way that hurts the child, or something very scary that makes the child feel scared. The child is attached to their parent because they will give them a sense of security, while at the same time wanting to run away from their parent because they are making them feel scared. This experience can be confusing for the child and can lead to controlling, parental role-playing behaviour, using the same tactics to 'solve' problems that cannot be solved.
As is often heard, the kind of parents you have makes the kind of children you have, and how parents treat their children is how children treat others. If a child makes a mistake, then his parents are necessarily not entirely innocent. For that is what parents give them.
请让我稍微再举一个经典列子,来陈述一下,依恋是怎么影响人。
Let me give you a slightly more classic example to state how attachment affects people.
如果一个孩子走路不小心跌倒了,他开始哭。
它的父母走过来说:啊,跌倒了哦。很痛哦。没事的。
那这个孩子哭过之后有可能会继续走,因为他知道这个疼痛是有意义的,它被看见了被理解了,而且它是安全的,这个痛没事的。
但可怕的是,如果父母这样对孩子说:哦,那你下次小心点就好。要坚强一点。明明是你自己不注意的。刚叫你都不听。
那这个孩子就会觉得他与父母之间是没有链接的,痛是他自己的错,他又无法接受那样的感觉。因为真的很痛。他的父母没看到他,他不是安全的。
这也是为啥有些人长大会经常感觉到孤独的缘故,并不是他的父母就不爱他了,而是依恋关系确实地影响了他。
If a child walks and falls down accidentally, he starts to cry.
His parents came up to him and said, "Ah, he's fallen. It hurts. It's okay.
Then the chances are that this child will continue to walk after crying because he knows that this pain has meaning, that it is seen and understood, and that it is safe and that this pain is okay.
But the scary thing is if a parent says to a child like this: Oh, well, just be careful next time. Be strong. You're obviously the one who's not paying attention. You didn't even listen when you were just told to.
Then the child feels that there is no link between him and his parents, that the pain is his own fault, and that he can't accept feeling that way. Because it really hurts. His parents don't see him, he's not safe.
This is why some people grow up to feel lonely more often than not, not because their parents don't love them anymore, but because the attachment relationship does affect them.
现在让回到DMC中去。
Now let's get back to the DMC.
但丁的母亲救了但丁,从DMC系列以来一直如此。但丁对母亲的依恋不仅仅只是他想要自己的母亲。而是母亲能够给但丁带来安全感。母亲是但丁的精神上的安全港。
Dante's mother saved Dante and has done so since the DMC series. Dante's attachment to his mother is not just that he wants his mother. Rather, it is that his mother is able to give Dante a sense of security. A mother is Dante's spiritual safe haven.
伊娃保护但丁的行为,在DMC1中可以翠西来代替,可以窥视到一点,而DMC3漫画更有直接的画面去表达,而在DMC5的CG过场中,更是展现这个完整的过程。
母亲保护了但丁,这是一个客观事实。
在孩子极其害怕的时候母亲出现了,并帮助他。这是毫无疑问给予孩子巨大的安全感。伊娃不但是但丁渴望的想要保护的家人,也是在他害怕颤抖的时候,能够给予他安全感的人。
DMC5伊娃过场的BGM就是:更多恐惧。
可是在CG画面中我们是可以知道的,母亲来了,他安全了。
而当他失去了母亲,周围变得不安全了。
伊娃与安全感其实是很密不可分。当伊娃出现的时候,他知道他安全了,他被保护着,,他被看见了他被理解了。
所以,即便他遇到再痛苦的事情,只要他想起自己母亲,他也是能够感觉到自己与母亲是联系着的,那种母亲带来的安全感、被爱着的感觉。
Eva's act of protecting Dante can be glimpsed a little in DMC1 when Trixie is substituted, while the DMC3 comic has more direct images to express this, and in the CG overworld of DMC5, it shows this complete process.
It is an objective fact that the mother protected Dante.
The mother is there when the child is extremely scared and helps him. This is what undoubtedly gives the child a great sense of security. Eva was not only the family member Dante longed to protect, but also the person who could give him a sense of security when he was trembling with fear.
The BGM for the DMC5 Eva over scene is: More Fear.
But we do know in the CG footage that the mother is here and he is safe.
And when he lost his mother, it became unsafe around him.
Eva and security are actually quite inseparable. When Eva appears, he knows he is safe, he is protected,, he is seen he is understood.
So even when he is experiencing the most painful things, whenever he thinks of his mother, he is able to feel that he is connected to her, that feeling of security, of being loved, that she brings.
DMC1中翠西保护即将被蒙杜斯攻击的但丁也是如此。而在《3124》中关于但丁与翠西的关系,设计师是这样的解析的“翠西在保护但丁”。
所以这是相通的东西,翠西给予但丁的东西与伊娃给予但丁的东西相通的,是安全感。他被保护着,他很安全。是他安全港。当然安全港并不是物理上的,而是精神上的。
而但丁在桌面上也一直放着母亲的照片,就像他母亲一直在看着他一样。无论但丁走到那里或者孤身一人,他都可以感觉到母亲身边,对母亲的牵绊一直陪伴着他。
自然就很顺理成章在但丁的内心中,她的母亲是为了保护他而牺牲的。并不是但丁希望他母亲死亡,而是他母亲的给他带来的安全感。这就是他所感觉到的东西。
This is also the case in DMC1, where Trish protects Dante, who is about to be attacked by Mundus. The designer of Dante's relationship with Trish in DMC1 explains that "Trish is protecting Dante".
So it's something that's connected, something that Trish gives Dante that's connected to what Eva gives Dante, a sense of security. He's protected, he's safe. It's his safe harbour. Of course the safe harbour is not physical, it's spiritual.
And Dante always had a picture of his mother on his desk, as if his mother was always watching him. No matter where Dante went or if he was alone, he could feel his mother's side, and his ties to her were always with him.
Naturally it was logical that in Dante's mind her mother had died to protect him. It was not that Dante wished his mother dead, but that his mother's gave him a sense of security. That is what he felt.
同样母亲的死亡给但丁带来巨大的悲伤,同时带来巨大的情绪问题。
在DMC3漫画的赠送的个人简介页面中,但丁认为母亲的是父亲的问题。是父亲的害死了母亲。这里是好像存在一个对错问题。
可是,毕竟斯巴达都死了,这是要怪斯巴达不应该背叛魔界呢?还是要怪死掉的斯巴达怎么没有复活?无论那种都不符合理性。而是更接近于感性的,对现状无法解决,无能为力,导致内心非常痛苦。需要有个发泄的出口。
就像古代时候,遇到天灾的时候,也总得有个代罪羊,不一定是代罪羊做错过什么,而是面对这种无能为力的境地,人的内心需要某种能够稳定自己精神的东西,谁都不想谁都没有办法,可人又会委屈,觉得自己也没做错什么,怎么就遇上了呢。好像没有什么,世界上就不会死人似的,不会有倒霉事一样。可是,就是会有。无论你做什么,人就会死,倒霉事也会有。生活就是会有不顺心的事。
所以,这是一种情绪上的需求,而不是对错的问题。并不能解决遇到的问题,但可以安抚情绪。
Likewise the death of his mother caused Dante great sorrow, along with great emotional problems.
In a complimentary profile page for the DMC3 comic, Dante argues that his mother's is his father's problem. It was the father's that killed the mother. Here is where there seems to be a question of right and wrong.
But, after all, Spartan is dead, so is this to blame for Spartan not betraying the demon world? Or should we blame the dead Spartans for not coming back to life? Neither of those is in line with reason. Rather, it's closer to the emotional, where the inability to resolve the situation and the inability to do anything about it leads to great inner pain. Needing an outlet to vent.
Just like in ancient times, when there was a natural disaster, there always had to be a scapegoat, not necessarily because the scapegoat had done something wrong, but because when faced with such a helpless situation, the human heart needed something that could stabilise its spirit, and no one wanted anyone to do anything, but people would be aggrieved, thinking that they had done nothing wrong, so how could they have met it. It's as if there's nothing, as if people don't die in the world, as if there's no bad luck. But there will be. No matter what you do, people will die and bad luck will happen. Life just doesn't work out.
So it's an emotional need, not a matter of right or wrong. It doesn't solve the problem encountered, but it can soothe the emotions.
那么与之相反的则是维吉尔带来的东西,而母亲的死亡的时候是与维吉尔的名字一起出现的。
按道理我们应该帮助我们的家人,而VoV中可以那些恶魔是如何伤害维吉尔的,那外面可并不止这么小猫两三只,光是想象都觉得可怕。你不但不会受到帮助,你反过来还得去帮他。
而当人想象外面的场景以及自己出去就要面对那种境地,是会感觉很恐惧很绝望,即便是一个成年人面对这种情况,都不一定可以做到完全不害怕,可以奋不顾身出去救人,何况是只是一个八岁的小孩子呢?在DMC3漫画中也可以看到,有一个恶魔在找人,而但丁像是捂住嘴巴那样,他很害怕他不敢动弹。而在VoV场景中,也有类似的场景,但丁待在柜子里面,一动都不动。
无论怎么样日常生活中,谁都有情绪,如果出现一些很强烈而无法处理的情绪或者不擅长处理情绪,而当别人那么大情绪波动出现的时候,另一个也会感受到的。人很多时候就会去否定他。比如“这有什么大不了的。”“别难过,笑一个”“你还委屈,我还委屈呢”这些都是在否定情绪。而人无法理解对方,是因为忘记不了自己的各种原因。利益、立场、你想要证明自己。你想要保护自己,你不想失去掌控。或者你曾经有过某种创伤的情绪体验。这些都在阻止我们去企图理解别人。当然理解别人不代表你要认同别人的行为。
但这只是想要说明,当天的但丁也没有经历过,被恶魔围殴求救也没有回应的情况,毕竟母亲确实在他需要的时候出现了,自然他也就无法理解也无法对面对那种情况的人产生共情。
同时可以说但丁感觉自己也很委屈,母亲也很委屈。毕竟母亲也很努力了。他也很害怕,
他也做不了什么,怎么不来关心一下他呢。为什么维吉尔还要有情绪呢?维吉尔居然还敢有情绪。
所以他否定了维吉尔的情绪,先安抚别人再讨论对错。那自然没有这个流程了。
他也很有情绪,当然情绪是但丁力量之源之一。当然,即使是这样。但丁依旧可以在精神世界,也就是他的安全港得到解决与安抚。
但同样的,谁都有情绪。情绪问题是无法分对错的,除非说人有情绪就是不对的。没有正确与错误的情绪,只有你能不能控制好自己的情绪。将情绪分对错本质只是在否定情绪。
这只是想说这种情绪互相对抗。最终是没有好果子的。
因为发展到最后总会出现:对。错的都是我,都怪我。我现在就跟你恩断义绝。再也不见。你过你的好日子,我过我的。行了吧。你满意了吗。
So it's an emotional need, not a matter of right or wrong. It doesn't solve the problem encountered, but it can soothe the emotions.
Then in contrast is what Vergil brings with him, and the time of the mother's death comes with Vergil's name.
It stands to reason that we should be helping our families, and how those demons in VoV can be hurting Vergil, that there aren't just so many kittens or two or three out there, it's scary just to imagine. Not only would you not be helped, you would in turn have to help him.
And when one imagines the scene outside and the fact that one has to go out and face that situation, one is going to feel very frightened and desperate. Even an adult facing such a situation may not be able to be completely unafraid to go out and save someone, let alone just an eight year old child. You can also see in the DMC3 comic that there is a demon looking for someone, and Dante is like covering his mouth like that, he is so scared he is afraid to move. And there is a similar scene in the VoV scene where Dante stays inside the cupboard and doesn't move a muscle.
No matter what in everyday life, anyone has emotions and if some very strong and unmanageable emotion arises or is not good at handling emotions, and when someone else so much as a mood swing arises, the other one will feel it too. A lot of times people just go into denial. For example, "What's the big deal." "Don't be sad, smile", "You're aggravated, I'm aggravated", all these things are negating emotions. And people can't understand each other because they can't forget themselves for various reasons. Interests, positions, you want to prove yourself. You want to protect yourself, you don't want to lose control. Or you've had some kind of traumatic emotional experience. All these things are stopping us from trying to understand others. Of course understanding someone doesn't mean you have to approve of their behaviour.
But this is just to show that the Dante of that day also did not experience a situation where he was surrounded by demons and begged for help without response; after all, his mother did appear in his time of need, and naturally he would not be able to understand nor empathise with someone facing that situation.
At the same time it could be said that Dante felt aggrieved by his mother as well. After all, his mother had tried very hard too. He was scared, too.
He can't do much, so why not come and care for him. Why should Vergil even have emotions? Vergil actually had the audacity to have emotions.
So he dismissed Vergil's emotions and placated the others before discussing right and wrong. Then naturally there was no such process.
He is also very emotional, and of course emotions are one of the sources of Dante's power. Even so, of course. Dante can still be addressed and appeased in the spirit world, his safe haven.
But again, anyone has emotions. There is no right or wrong way to deal with emotions, unless it is said that it is wrong for people to have emotions. There is no right or wrong emotion, only the ability to control your emotions. To classify emotions as right or wrong is essentially just to deny them.
This is just to say that such emotions confront each other. Ultimately there is no good that can come of it.
Because what always happens in the end is: right. It's all my fault, it's all my fault. I'm cutting you off right now. Never to see again. You live your good life, I'll live mine. That's it. Are you satisfied.
说回来,伊娃最后想要去拯救谁。会对但丁产生什么的影响呢?
伊娃对但丁的嘱咐,是让但丁忘记过去改变姓名,重新开始。
这段话中,让孩子忘记过去也就意味着忘记自己,潜台词应当是“我不再是你的母亲”。
所以如果她“不回来”,那么你不是我的孩子,我也不是你的母亲,请重新开始好好活下去。就像很多电视剧与小说中一样,一位母亲为了孩子,不得不抛弃自己的孩子。
伊娃出去的理由就是为了维吉尔,所以她得找到救到维吉尔才会回来,但我们是非清楚她永远找不到也永远回不来。
在那一刻,维吉尔就成为伊娃唯一的孩子。
维吉尔是她临死之前唯一想要去救唯一想要去保护的孩子。
他杀死他母亲唯一希望去拯救与保护的人,伊娃一定会伤心,而且伊娃可能无法原谅他的。但丁想母亲能够认可自己吗?作为人类会认可的,作为母亲那有点强人所难。他的母亲一定是爱着自己的,可是现在,是否原谅他就不一定了。
无法产生那种看见与理解的链接,是这种链接直接被剪断。
情感就成为痛苦的来源。
这样也严重破坏他与他母亲之间的那种安全关系,因为会忽然意识到,母亲会生气。如果说父亲生气,让他很害怕他想要逃离,那么让他觉得安全地方,自然是母亲那边。而现在,连母亲都在生气。
让他精神的感觉安全的安全港,消失了。这是一种难以形容的痛苦,他没有被看见。他不是安全的。而翠西无法取代伊娃的对但丁产生的影响,或者说但丁与伊娃之间依恋关系纽带是翠西无法取代的。
Coming back to who Eva wants to go and save in the end. What will be the impact on Dante?
Eva's instructions to Dante are for him to forget the past change his name and start afresh.
In this passage, asking the child to forget the past means forgetting himself, and the subtext should be "I am no longer your mother".
So if she "doesn't come back", then you're not my child and I'm not your mother, so start over and live your life. As in many dramas and novels, a mother has to abandon her child for the sake of her child.
Eva's reason for going out was for Vergil, so she would have to find and save Vergil before she would return, but we know right from wrong that she will never find and never return.
At that moment, Vergil became Eva's only child.
Vergil was the only child she wanted to save, the only child she wanted to protect, before she died.
Eva will be devastated that he killed the only person his mother hoped to save and protect, and Eva may not be able to forgive him for it. Dante thought would his mother be able to approve of him? As a human he would, as a mother that was a little too much to ask. His mother must have loved him, but now, whether she forgave him or not was not so sure.
The inability to produce that link of seeing and understanding is what cuts this link right off.
Emotions then become a source of suffering.
This also seriously undermines the kind of safe relationship he has with his mother, as there will be a sudden realisation that she will be angry. If his father being angry made him scared he wanted to run away, then the natural place for him to feel safe was his mother's side. And now, even his mother was angry.
The safe haven that made his spirit feel safe, disappeared. It was an indescribable pain that he was not seen. He was not safe. And Trish could not replace the effect that Eva's had on Dante, or the bond of attachment between Dante and Eva that Trish could not replace.
这依旧不是对错问题。或者说你无法用对错来置换情绪问题。
这沦为了:是的。你做的说的都对。可是,我真的无法原谅你。
但丁很痛苦很委屈,但他一点办法都没有。他还得继续这样做。
真的从精神上,完美地断绝了但丁与伊娃之间的联系。这对于但丁确实是毁灭性的。
It is still not a question of right or wrong. Or you can't replace the emotional issue with right and wrong.
It reduces to: yes. You're doing and saying the right things. But I really can't forgive you.
Dante was pained and aggrieved, but there was nothing he could do about it. He had to go on doing it.
It's really spiritually and perfectly severed the link between Dante and Eva. It was really devastating for Dante.
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noteofnaught · 4 years ago
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The Demon Expedition given away inside the DMC3 commentary book A little more stuff than the game content, telling some of the characteristics of the demons. (Easy to play) Rough translation. 2 Chinese 3 English. Please let me know if there are any mistakes.
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noteofnaught · 4 years ago
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Enzo's testimony inside the commentary book given away with the DMC3 game. Roughly translated. Figure 2 is in Chinese and figure 3 is in English. Please let me know if there are any errors.
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noteofnaught · 4 years ago
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The contents of the Magic Sword(DMC3)
The contents of the Magic Sword Instrument given to you in the Explanation Book inside the DMC3 physical game.
A slight translation.
Figure 2 is in Chinese and Figure 3 is in English. Please let me know if there are any errors.
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I think this text parses the reason why Arkham, who is clearly a descendant, is unable to use his own blood. Because he was impure and not a virgin XDDD
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noteofnaught · 4 years ago
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On Vergil's "mother's eccentricity"
起源一个问题。
然后写这些东西。
翻译还是那位,有错误或者问题请联系我。
欢迎各种讨论。
Originating a question.
Then write these things.
Translation or the one, please contact me for errors or questions.
All kinds of discussions are welcome.
本文前部分只使用DMC3的资料。基于大部分关于母亲死亡部分的回忆只存在于漫画,实际游戏内并没有提及,所以只要也以漫画为主。的。
The first part of this article uses only information from DMC3.
Based on the fact that most of the memories of the part about the death of the mother exist only in the manga and are not mentioned within the actual game, so as long as they are also based on the manga.
维吉尔那一天在经历在漫画里面有一定程度的描述,而且通过是恐惧来展示
Vergil's experience that day is described to some extent within the manga and is shown through is fear.
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从上面的画面中可以看到,虽然被攻击的很厉害但他依旧在反抗,但在第二张图里面他看到着火的房子,无论认为那一声但丁是属于他喊出来还是母亲的喊出来的,显然都展示了房子被烧,而屋子里面还有人这个事实。
随后第三页他被钉在自己坟墓之上,他没有跟之前一样反抗,而是像失去反抗的意志。结合第二张图可以得出,燃烧的房子给予他巨大的冲击,让他丧失希望与反抗的意志,随后被更多攻击所伤害,然后恶魔问他:更なる恐怖を 望むや否や?(想要拥有更多的恐惧吗?)
维吉尔这一刻回答是这样的:今さら……こんなものを見せて 何がわかる(事到如今……给我看这个,想让我明白什么?)
这个恶魔显然知道维吉尔在恐惧什么并刻意询问自己的猎物,是否需要更多?自己就像一个贴心的主人/狩猎者,温柔对待他。
而维吉尔的回答也认证,着火的房子显然与他的恐惧有所联系,这些幻象就是他所恐惧的东西。
我们都知道房子里面有他的家人,他在那一天被恶魔所伤害并失去他的家人。
现在让我们回到漫画的开头。
As can be seen in the above picture, although he is attacked very badly he still resists, but in the second picture he sees the house on fire and whether one thinks that the cry Dante belongs to him shouting out or his mother's, it clearly shows the fact that the house is burning and that there is someone inside it.
Then on the third page he is nailed above his own grave, and instead of resisting as he did before, he looks like he has lost the will to resist. Combined with the second picture it can be concluded that the burning house gives him a great shock, causing him to lose hope and the will to resist, and he is then hurt by more attacks, and then the demon asks him: 更なる恐怖を 望むや否や? (Do you want to have more fear?)
Vergil's answer at this moment is this: 今さら......こんなものを見せて 何がわかる (What do you want me to understand now that ...... has shown me this?)
This demon obviously knows what Vergil is afraid of and deliberately asks his prey if he needs more? Like a caring master/hunter himself, he treats him gently.
And Vergil's answer also authenticates that the house on fire is clearly linked to his fears and that these visions are what he fears.
We all know that the house contains his family, whom he lost that day to the demon.
Now let's go back to the beginning of the comic.
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这一块墓碑显然写着伊娃的名字。那一天,他们家里着火了,按道理来说被燃烧后的尸体是无法根据外表来进行辨认的,但墓碑上的名字很明确的表明死者的身份,至少下葬的人是知道死者的身份的。伊娃是否有尸体呢?显然是有的。
阿卡姆与维吉尔一段对话中我们可以得知,伊娃是尸体有可能并不是被燃烧后尸体。
This tombstone apparently bears Eva's name. On that day, their house caught fire, and it is logical that a burnt body cannot be identified by its appearance, but the name on the headstone is a clear indication of the identity of the deceased, or at least that the person who buried it was aware of the identity of the deceased. Did Eva have a body? Apparently there was.
We can tell from a conversation between Arkham and Vergil that it is possible that Eva was a corpse and not a burned body.
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在这里阿卡姆提到,虽然家里着火了但死因无法定夺,并在她尸体附近找到许多羽毛与鳞片,好像有什么野兽在那里斗争过,这里也明确提到,她死亡场所是家里。
既然是无法定夺那就意味着尸体并不是烧焦后的尸体,如果是烧焦后的尸体很容易被认为是火灾烧死的,当然也可以说,不知道是被烧死还是某些东西争夺过程中所死亡的。
这个女人是否就是伊娃并没有说清楚,但我们默认知道是伊娃,她现在并非一般意义上死亡案列,描述中看起就像卷入一场斗争,导致死亡。
当然在漫画后半部分,但丁说道母亲是被恶魔杀死的,维吉尔的回答是他知道。
Here Arkham mentions that although the house was on fire the cause of death could not be determined and finds many feathers and scales near her body as if some beast had struggled there, and here it is also clearly mentioned that the place of her death was the house.
The fact that it is inconclusive means that the body is not a burnt body, which could easily be attributed to a fire, or, of course, to something that was burnt or fought over.
Whether or not this woman is Eva is not made clear, but we know by default that it is Eva, who is now not a case of death in the usual sense, and the description looks like she was involved in a struggle that led to her death.
Of course in the second half of the comic, Dante says that his mother was killed by a demon, and Vergil's response is that he knows.
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同样这个知道发生在阿卡姆与维吉尔的谈话之后,也就是说,维吉尔也有可能是在阿卡姆情报之后才得知,伊娃并非烧死的而是非正常死亡,极可能卷入一场斗争之中。
无论如何这都不影响一个问题,那就是立伊娃墓碑的人显然是知道伊娃的身份,并为她建立一块墓碑。
但我们无法从剪影上得知,站在墓碑前的人是谁,因为维吉尔在遇到恩佐之前发型与但丁是一样的,所以只能通过别的办法去猜测这个人是谁,但丁在DMC1小说有明确提到,他那一天离开,并没有将母亲的尸体进行下葬,随后修改自己名字,那更没有任何机会去给自己母亲立一块墓碑,那如果但丁是拜祭自己母亲,他不会带上拜祭需要的东西吗?哪怕是一朵花?不会蹲下来吗?
但剪影上的人是两手空空的,没有带任何东西只是站在墓碑前面。
那么这个人很有可能不是但丁而是维吉尔。
当时维吉尔以为自己家人都死亡了,为了追求超越父亲目的又回到了曾经的故乡,然后他看到母亲的墓碑却没有但丁的墓碑,那自然是没有的,因为但丁还活着呢,也没有他,我想也自然也是没有的,毕竟他还活着,也没有留下尸体。
在这里最符合逻辑/最有可能出现的逻辑极可能是但丁为母亲立了墓碑,但丁与母亲那一天很可能没有死去,母亲带着但丁离开,并抛下了他。
随后从阿卡姆口中的得知,母亲有可能是保护弟弟过程中死亡,因为她死亡地点是家里,而不是家门外,她母亲有可能是一直在家里呆在房屋内没有外出,一直守护着但丁所以才让但丁安然无恙活下来。
因为如果母亲没有一直守护着但丁,那但丁很有可能会像他当天所遭遇的那样,或者已经出来找他了,而且母亲甚至没有让逃生之后但丁来寻找他的打算,因为但丁显然没有找过他。
如果说自己是以为他们都死亡了,那母亲与弟弟又是为什么呢?因为觉得他死了吗?还是不想要他了?母亲死后留下尸体,但自己不是没有尸体吗?尸体也不打算找了吗?可是,妈妈的尸体却找了,为什么不找我的?为什么母亲也没有让弟弟来找自己呢?比起自己,弟弟更重要吗?
在这种逻辑之下,母亲更偏爱但丁的想法就可以形成了。
当然如果仔细去观察,会发现这些想法其实回避一个问题,那就是母亲有可能是来寻找他途中死亡的,比起打之内心去相信母亲为寻找他而死亡,他看起来更愿意去接受母亲没有那么做。
这也是正常的情感。
人的大脑是有保护机制的,当某些东西过于超过他的负荷的时候,会出现回避情况。
当然你要指责他害死母亲,要赎罪吗?
还是要指责他必须为母亲的死亡负责呢?
无论那一个显然都不合适,而且伤害不止维吉尔甚至是伊娃。
VoV里面其实也有这种想法雏形。
在故事中,老人家曾经说过维吉尔“又”离家出走。
显然这不是他第一次。
而维吉尔最后一次离开家门,伊娃也没有起身去寻找他,即使她看起来想要挽留他。
伊娃不能起身去找维吉尔理由也很简单,因为她同样不能单独把但丁一个人留在家里。
或者她认定维吉尔会自己回来的,并不需要担心或者费心思去找。
无论是那一个,她再也无法找到她的孩子了。
Again this knowledge occurred after Arkham's conversation with Vergil, which means that it is also possible that Vergil only learned after Arkham's information that Eva had not burned to death but had died an unnatural death and was most likely involved in a struggle.
In any case this does not detract from the fact that the person who erected Eva's tombstone was obviously aware of Eva's identity and erected a tombstone for her.
But we cannot know from the silhouette who the person standing at the tombstone is, because Vergil had the same hairstyle as Dante before he met Enzo, so we can only guess who this person is by other means. Dante has explicitly mentioned in the DMC1 novel that he left that day and did not bury his mother's body and subsequently change his name, that is, much less have any opportunity to erect a tombstone to his mother, that If Dante had been paying his respects to his mother, would he not have taken with him what he needed to pay his respects? Even a flower? Wouldn't he have knelt down?
But the man in the silhouette is empty-handed, standing in front of the tombstone without anything.
So it is likely that this person is not Dante but Vergil.
At the time Vergil thought his family was dead and returned to his former homeland in pursuit of a purpose beyond his father, then he saw his mother's tombstone but not Dante's, which naturally wasn't there because Dante was still alive and there was no him, which I suppose is also natural as well, after all he was alive and didn't leave a body behind.
The most logical/likely logic to emerge here is most likely that Dante erected a tombstone for his mother, that Dante and his mother probably did not die that day, and that his mother took Dante away and left him behind.
It is possible that her mother died protecting her brother, as she died in her house, not outside it, and that her mother stayed in the house and did not go out, watching over Dante and keeping him alive.
For if her mother had not been guarding Dante, then Dante would most likely have done what happened to him that day, or would have come out looking for him, and her mother had not even intended for Dante to come looking for him after the escape, for Dante had obviously not looked for him.
If he had thought they were all dead, what was his mother and brother doing? Because they thought he was dead? Or did they not want him anymore? The mother had died and left her body behind, but didn't she have a body herself? Was the body not going to be found either? Yet, my mother's body was found, so why not mine? Why didn't mother ask my brother to come to herself either? Was my brother more important than myself?
With this logic, the idea that the mother favoured Dante could be formed.
Of course, if one looks closely, one can see that these ideas avoid the question of the possibility that his mother died on her way to find him, and he seems more willing to accept that she did not do that than to believe in his heart that she died looking for him.
This is a normal emotion.
The human brain has a protective mechanism and when something is too much for him to handle, avoidance can occur.
Surely you want to accuse him of having to atone for the death of his mother?
Or are you going to accuse him of having to take responsibility for his mother's death?
Either one is clearly inappropriate and hurts more than just Vergil or even Eva.
VoV actually has a prototype of this idea in it. In the story, the old man once said that Vergil had run away from home "again".
Apparently this is not the first time he has done so.
And the last time Vergil leaves the house, Eva doesn't get up to look for him, even though she seems to want to keep him.
Eva could not get up to look for Vergil for the simple reason that she could not leave Dante alone in the house either.
Or perhaps she decided that Vergil would come back on his own and not need to worry or bother looking for him.
Either way, she would never be able to find her child again.
以上全是我的推论
非常个人意见的
All the above are my inferences
Very personal opinion's
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noteofnaught · 4 years ago
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About Dante Sin Devil Trigger
This is something I thought of after uploading something again recently.
So wrote about it.
Please let me know if there are any errors.
All kinds of communication are welcome.
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图1是DMC4设定集里面,真魔人アイデア(idea),最终是没有实现。图2是DMC5设定集里面,真魔人全身ラフ3(rough),可以对比图1几乎是一样的,只是细节更加多更精细。
Fig. 1 is the DMC4 set, which shows the real demon Aida (idea), which was not realized in the end.Figure 2 is from the DMC5 set, 真魔人全身ラフ3 (rough), which is almost the same as Figure 1, but with more detail.It is almost the same, but with more detail.
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这好几个全身ラフ(rough),可以看的出来长角、胸前发光的地方是被保留下来的。而且这个几个设定都有很典型的恶魔感。
ラフ5(rough)如果仔细观察,会发现这是发出火焰的感觉,很像维吉尔真魔人的煤气灶。
These are several [全身ラフ(rough)] that can be seenthe long horns and the glowing area on the chest are preservedThe whole body has been preserved.The design has a very typical demonic feel to it.
而这个真魔人概念是怎么样的,事实在DMC4设定集有明确被说明。And the fact that this True Demon concept is how it works is clearly stated in the DMC4 setting set.
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【[真魔人]是实际上没在游戏中登场的魔人化方案。是一种近乎失控,处于危险状态的人物形象。一般的魔人为了能在现世最大限度地发挥魔力,会采取提高效率的形式,但真魔人的设计理念是释放恶魔的全部力量,或者莫如说是处于一种即将暴走的状态。它身上既保留着DMC的人物形象,又聚集了更加纯粹的恶魔形象。也考虑过在胸前的光���中插入Rebellion(之剑),尾巴是Rebellion插入(胸前)后的变形的产物。(吉川)】
【The 真魔人(Sin Devil Trigger)is a magical personification scheme that does not actually appear in the game.It is a character that is almost out of control and in a dangerous state. In generaldemons take on the form of a demon in order to maximise their magical power in the present world andefficiency, but the 真魔人(Sin Devil Trigger) is designed to unleash the full power of the demon.power, or rather in a state of impending rampage.The True Demon It retains the DMC character and gathers a moreThe design concept is to unleash the full power of the demon, or rather to be in a state of impending rage. It has also been considered to insert the Rebellion (the sword) into the beam of light on its chest.The tail is the product of the insertion of the Rebellion (in the chest).the product of the deformation that follows. (Yoshikawa)】
而这个也不是DMC4才有的想法,在DMC2时候也存在的。DMC2事实上,我没有找到过任何他的单独美术集,关于它的内容是非常少的。因为各种各样的原因,我想这也是可以理解的。这是DMC2攻略书中对于真魔人的介绍。
And this isn't an idea that only existed in DMC4, it existed in DMC2 as well.DMC2 in fact, I haven't found any separate art set for him, there is very little about it.For a variety of reasons, I guess that's understandable.This is what the DMC2 guide book has to say about the 真魔人(Sin Devil Trigger).
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在这里他的名字不是Dante Sin Devil Trigger,而是ULTIMAT EDEVIL。但他的日文名字依旧是真魔人。
而且在上面造型其实也可以看出来,在DMC5中翅膀造型也是类似的。
【真魔人形态(ULTIMATEDEVIL)处于极限状态的但丁,能够百分之百的发挥恶魔的能力。巨大化之后的肉体可以抵御任何种类的攻击。不仅如此,可能是由于武器已经与肉身合二为一,但丁能够将双臂变形为散发强烈闪光的剑与耀眼的光球,在一瞬间消灭对手。直到力气用尽为止,他都不会变回人类的形态。】
这样的描述是不是有点熟悉?在DMC5中当你使用 Sin Devil Trigger的时候,是不能自己决定什么时候取消这个状态的,你只能等待 Sin Devil Trigger的魔力条用完为止。
DMC2中真魔人形态(ULTIMATEDEVIL)有很多技能与DMC5中Sin Devil Trigger是很像。
特别魔力球攻击,几乎可以说一模一样。
DMC2的但丁唯一解锁条件是需要在血量过低的情况下的,而当你血量回复的时候,就会自动恢复为人类的状态,这也符合其失控的,本能的定义。
而DMC5中你可以注意解除魔力状态的时候,但丁是跪在地上,声音听起来不是很轻松愉快的那种感觉,比起随意简单的能够自由控制,显然是符合处于[力气耗尽]。
唯一能够让你决定解除真魔人状态反而是需要SSS评价下,但换而言之,你既然都能达到SSS评价,我猜周围已经没有敌人了吧。
所以,但丁真魔人状态其实是一种失控的状态, 在游戏里面,我们也能感受得到除了帅气以外, 那种巨大破坏力那种毁天灭地的感觉的同时我们也无法决定何时取消它。
His name here is not Dante Sin Devil Trigger, but ULTIMAT EDEVIL, but his Japanese name is still [真魔人].
And as you can actually see in the shape above, the wing shape is similar in DMC5.
【真魔人モ一ド(ULTIMATEDEVIL)Dante, in his extreme state, is able to use 100 per cent of his demonic abilities. His gigantic flesh can withstand any kind of attack. Not only that, but perhaps because his weapons have become one with his flesh, Dante is able to transform his arms into powerfully glowing swords and dazzling balls of light that destroy his opponents in a flash. He does not change back to his human form until his strength is exhausted.】
Does this description sound familiar? In DMC5 when you use Sin Devil Trigger, you can't decide when to cancel the status yourself, you have to wait until Sin Devil Trigger's magic bar runs out.
The ULTIMATEDEVIL form in DMC2 has many skills that are very similar to Sin Devil Trigger in DMC5.
The Magic Ball attack, in particular, is almost identical.
The only unlock condition for Dante in DMC2 was that he needed to be at low blood levels, and when you regained your blood level, you automatically reverted to your human state, which fits the definition of his out-of-control, instinctive nature.
And you can note in DMC5 that when you release the magic state, Dante is on his knees and his voice doesn't sound very relaxed and pleasant in that sense, which is clearly consistent with being in a [force depletion] than the casual simplicity of being able to control it freely.
The only thing that would allow you to decide to release the True Demon state instead would require an SSS rating, but in other words, since you're even able to achieve an SSS rating, I'm guessing there are no more enemies around.
So, Dante's True Demon state is actually a state of being out of control.In the game, we can also feel that apart from the handsomeWe can also feel the devastation of the game, and we can't decide when to cancel it.
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noteofnaught · 4 years ago
Text
DMC3设定集与DMC3字幕对比(只要是日语)第三部分 DMC3 set collection vs. DMC3 subtitles (as long as they are in Japanese) Part III
翻译还是deepl,有问题跟奇怪请告诉我。欢迎讨论。
Translation or deepl, please let me know if you have any questions or oddities. Feel free to discuss.
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这里有一句关于但丁的台词差别比较大的,但英语配音与设定集里面的英文是一致的。
Here's a line about Dante that varies a bit more, but the English dub is the same as the English inside the set collection.
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DMC3设定集(Set Collection):
だが親父はその力を捨てた。
親父は知ってたのさ。
力だけじゃ何も守れないって事をな。
但是父亲将力量舍弃掉。
因��父亲知道,仅仅只有力量的话是什么都无法守护的。
But Father gave up the power.
For Father knew that nothing could be guarded by power alone.
这句话几乎是维吉尔在第一战对但丁所说的:力こそが全てなんだよ。力がなければ何も守れやしない。自分の身さえもな。(力量就是全部,没有力量什么都无法保护,哪怕你自己。)当然这里应该处于对维吉尔力量宣言表示否认。
The phrase is almost exactly what Vergil said to Dante in the first battle: 力こそが全てなんだよ。力がなければ何も守れやしない。自分の身さえもな。 (Power is all there is, without it nothing can be protected, not even yourself.) Of course here one should be in denial of Vergil's declaration of power.
DMC3设定集(Set Collection):
私は神になる事を望んだ! そのために1人の女を犠牲にした!それだけの事だ!違うか!
我希望成为神! 为此牺牲了一个女人!
就是这样的而已! 哪里不对吗!
I want to be a god! And sacrificed a woman to do so!
That's all there is to it! What's wrong with that!
DMC3字幕(Subtitles):
私は神になりたかったのだ!そのために愚かな人間を犠牲にしたそれだけの事だ!それのどこが悪い——
我想成为神! 为此牺牲了愚蠢的人类就是这样而已!
到底哪里不好——
l vished to be a God!
And l sacvificed one miserable bumanbeing for tbat reason,that is all!Was that really so auoful?!
具体意思没有多大区别,但设定集中再次出现了1人の女也就与上面M13里面提到的斯巴达牺牲的1人の女其实是同一个意思,也就是一个完整的人类女性。
而阿卡姆牺牲的人类也就是他的妻子,通过牺牲自己妻子来获得力量。
The exact meaning is not much different, but the reappearance of 人の女in the setting set is actually the same meaning as the 人の女sacrificed by Sparta mentioned in M13 above, which is a full human female.
And the human that Arkham sacrifices is also his wife, gaining power by sacrificing his wife.
ED1
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在这个地方,基本没有多大变化。
In this part of the world, basically not much has changed.
ED2
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在这个地方,基本没有多大变化。
In this part of the world, basically not much has changed.
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noteofnaught · 4 years ago
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DMC3设定集与DMC3字幕对比(只要是日语)第二部分 DMC3 set collection vs. DMC3 subtitles (as long as they are in Japanese) Part II
翻译还是deepl,有问题跟奇怪请告诉我。欢迎讨论。
Translation or deepl, please let me know if you have any questions or oddities. Feel free to discuss.
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DMC3设定集(Set Collection):
そいつはね――人間のくせに悪魔になりたいとかなんとか言い出して大勢の人間を殺したの。それだけじゃない。
己の妻までもその手にかけた――最低の男。
那家伙啊——明明是人啊,却说出想成为恶魔什么的,杀死了很多人。不仅如此,连自己妻子也亲手杀了——是最差劲的男人。
He was a human being, but he said he wanted to be a demon and killed many people. Not only that, he even killed his own wife with his own hands - the worst kind of man.
DMC3字幕:
その男はね 悪魔になるなんて言い出して
自分の妻を殺してしまったのよ
罪もない人まで何人も巻き込んで—
那个男人啊 说想要变成恶魔什么的
然后杀了自己的妻子
还将很多无辜的人卷入其中。
He was obsessed with becoming the Devil.
So mucb be killed bis own wvife.For that be butchered innocent people too.He is the most vile lkind of creature.
在观感上有一旦区别,设定集可能让人感觉上蕾蒂与阿卡姆有更多感情。当然从画面上也可以感受到。
「裁きの間」与「礼典室」虽然看起来不一样,但在游戏里面是同一个地方,而字幕中的皮肉な話だ(真是讽刺)与DMC设定集中的これも運命か(这就是命运吧)虽然不一样,但英语配音是与设定集中完全一致的。
There is once difference in the look and feel, and the setting set may make it feel like Lady has more of a bond with Arkham. You can certainly feel it in the graphics.
The 「裁きの間」and the「礼典室」 look different but are the same place inside the game, and the [皮肉な話だ] (how ironic) in the subtitles is different from the [これも運命か] (this is fate, right?) in the DMC setting set, but the English dub is identical to the one in the setting set.
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在这个地方,基本没有多少区别。但分镜中有阿卡姆流泪的镜头。
In this place, there is basically not much difference.
But there are shots of Arkham shedding tears in the subplot.
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也许为了阿卡姆形象或者为了让但丁最后哭泣看起来不像猫哭老鼠假慈悲的试图去泡妞。更大可能是因为经费与技术问题,选择不做了。
Perhaps for the sake of the Arkham image or to make Dante's final cry look less like a cat crying over a mouse faking mercy trying to pick up a girl.
More likely it was chosen not to be done because of funding and technical issues.
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在这个地方,基本没有多大变化。设定集中的その変わりに力はみなぎるって代物さ!(而作为交换你会得到更多的力量。)与ちなみに魂と引ぎ換えにパワーは全開!(顺便说一下,是以灵魂交换力量全开!)是一样的。パワー是英文的power的片假名,也就是说音译。
In this place, basically not much has changed. In the setting set [その変わりに力はみなぎるって代物さ!] (And in exchange you'll get more power.) with [ちなみに魂と引ぎ換えにパワーは全开!] (In exchange for a soul, by the way, the power is fully turned on! is the same. パワー is the English katakana for power, which means phonetic translation.
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这任务是意思差距最大,也是缺失信息最多的一个任务,大概可能通过漫画补完,但我们也知道我们永远痛失了第三卷。
DMC3设定集有的部分但游戏内缺失的部分如下:
This is one of the most important tasks in the game, and it is also the one with the most missing information.
The following is a list of the parts of DMC3 that are missing from the game.
不思議だっただろう、バージル?何故封印が解けないのか?
2つのアミュレット、スパーダの血――必要なものは揃えたはずなのに!
You want to know wbry the spell didn't break, bhuh, Vergil?
You bave two amulets and Sparda's blood.
You had everything you needed to unleash the evil!
不可思议吧,维吉尔? 为什么封印解不开?
两个项链、斯巴达的血——需要的东西应该集齐了!
お前の血だけじゃダメダメなんだよ!
封印を解くにはもう1人の坊やの血も必要なのさ!
だってお前らは2人でようやく1人前の悪魔なんだからな!
Your blood alone isn't enough, you fool!
You need your brother's btood as well, in order to unlock the spell!
Without his half, you can never be a complete Devil you know!
光只有你的血是不行的!
解开封印还必须需要一个孩子的血!
因为两个人合起来才是一个完整的恶魔啊!
スパーダは、人々の魔を求めた飽くなき心を邪悪を断じ、
二千年前、この塔を封じた。
塔の持つ強力な力を押さえ込むために、スパーダが捧げた物が2つあ悪魔である己の血と、穢れなき1人の巫女の血だ!
Sparda conde mned the souls of those who craved Evil by sealing this passage
He sacrificed tiwo things to supress the tre mendous force of this tower: His own Devil's blood and a mortal priestess.
两千多年前,斯帕达为了断绝人们不断追求魔的邪恶之心,封印了这座塔
为了压制塔所拥有的强大力量,斯巴达献上的东西有两���,一个是作为恶魔的自己的血另一个是一名纯洁的巫女之血!
人々を守るなどという欺瞞のために、スパーダは1人の女を犠牲にした——
我々は、その犠牲となった巫女の末裔だ。
He sacrificed an innocent woman' in order to protect hemans.
And it is who we are the direct descendants of tbat tragie victim.
他欺瞒众人,以保护人民为由,牺牲了一个女人
而我们就是那个被牺牲的巫女的后裔。
(这里英文为无辜的受害者的直系后代)
お前が必要だった。一族の血を引く女であるお前の血が!
お前の血がなければ、この封印を解く事はできない。
I needed you, in wbose body flows the sa me blood as the sacrificed womam.
His spell cannot be undone witbout your blood!
你是必要的。 作为继承了家族血统的女人的你的血!
没有你的血,就无法解开这个封印。
苦労したぜ――HI-HA-HA!
ここに辿り着くまでに、誰かがおっ死んじまえばそれで終了だ!
It was quite a ride you know!
If any of you had died before getting bere, our little plan would bave gone to u
辛苦啦――哈哈哈!
在来到这里之前,如果谁死了那就完蛋啦!
お互いを争わせて弱らせながら!ここまで来てもらったってわけだ!
こんな下衆野郎に変装までしてなァ!
Therefore, my job was to make you battle each other in order to weaken yow.
But at the sa me time, I bad to guide you bere and make sure that you were kept a I even went so far as dressing like a complete idiott
因此我让你们互相争斗,互相削弱! 就是这样把你们弄到这里来!
我甚至需要伪装成劣等生物的样子!
(英文这里是他为此穿的像个白痴)
在这里斯巴达为了镇压塔却力量不足,为此牺牲了一名女性。阿卡姆称为欺瞒,而阿卡姆自称是女巫的后代,而献祭需要的是完整的女性,阿卡姆显然已经不合适,但也有可能是女巫血统传女不传男。
Here Sparta sacrificed a woman for this purpose in order to suppress the Tower but was underpowered. Arkham is called Deception, and while Arkham claims to be a descendant of witches, and the sacrifice requires a full female, Arkham is clearly no longer suitable, but it is also possible that the witch bloodline is passed down to women and not men.
14
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在这个地方,基本没有多大变化。
In this part of the world, basically not much has changed.
15
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在这个地方,基本没有多大变化。 In this part of the world, basically not much has changed.
16
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在这个地方,基本没有多大变化。
In this part of the world, basically not much has changed.
17&18
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在这个地方,基本没有多大变化。
In this part of the world, basically not much has changed.
19
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在这个地方,基本没有多大变化。
In this part of the world, basically not much has changed.
Towards Part III:https://noteofnaught.tumblr.com/post/656515008269811712/dmc3%E8%AE%BE%E5%AE%9A%E9%9B%86%E4%B8%8Edmc3%E5%AD%97%E5%B9%95%E5%AF%B9%E6%AF%94%E5%8F%AA%E8%A6%81%E6%98%AF%E6%97%A5%E8%AF%AD%E7%AC%AC%E4%B8%89%E9%83%A8%E5%88%86-dmc3-set-collection
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noteofnaught · 4 years ago
Text
DMC3设定集与DMC3字幕对比(只要是日语)第一部分 DMC3 set collection vs. DMC3 subtitles (as long as they are in Japanese) Part 1
DMC3设定集与DMC3字幕对比(只要是日语)
英语的话与语音区别不大,其中还有一些是在设定集出现的,但最终成品没有的,估计可能要作为漫画的呈现的。
但我们知道,我们也永远失去第三卷漫画。
DMC3 set collection vs. DMC3 subtitles (as long as they are in Japanese)
The English words are not very different from the audio, and there are some of them that appear in the setting set but not in the final product, which I guess might have to be presented as a manga.
But as we know, we also lose the third volume of the manga forever.
翻译还是deepl,有问题跟奇怪请告诉我。欢迎讨论。
Translation or deepl, please let me know if you have any questions or oddities. Feel free to discuss.
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「デビルメイクライ3」が唯一無ニの作品となったその礎は、登場人物たちがくり広げる生きた会話。そして、驚嘆と興奮があふれるアクションの数々だ。これらが生まれる元となった資料をここに記す。
《DMC3》成为了独一无二的作品其基础是登场人物们展开的生动对话。充满惊叹和兴奋的动作也比比皆是。然后,以下是创作这些作品的原始材料。
DMC3 is unique in that it is based on the vivid dialogue of the characters who appear. Actions of awe and excitement abound. Then, here are the raw materials used to create these works.
这里只列举出差距最大的,也就是信息量差距大一点的。
里面也有写法不一样,但意思是一样的,例如不是谎言也就意味着是真的。
Only the ones with the biggest gaps, i.e. those with a bigger gap in information, are listed here.
It is also written differently in there, but the meaning is the same, e.g. not a lie also means it is true.
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DMC3设定集(Set Collection):
昔、1人の悪魔が人間のために剣を取り戦った。そして二度と悪魔と人が交わらぬように、魔界を封じ込めたの。
同時に、自分の強大な力も魔界の奥深くに封印してね……
很久以前,一个恶魔拿起剑,为人类而战。
就像为了使恶魔和人类不再有交集一样,将魔界封印了。
同时,他也将自己强大的力量一同封印在魔界的深处......
A long time ago, a demon took up the sword and fought for mankind.
As it were, the demon world was sealed so that demons and humans would never cross paths again.
At the same time, he sealed his great power together in the depths of the demon world ......
DMC3字幕(Subtitles):
昔 一人の悪魔が人間のために戦ったってそして
剣の力を使って魔界を封じ込めた—
自分の強大すぎる力と一緒にね
很久以前曾有一位恶魔为了人类而战
然后使用剑的力量将魔界连同自己强大的力量也一起封印
Long ago, in ancient times, a demon rebelled against his own kind for the sake of the buman race. With his sword, he shut the portal to the demonic realm and sealed the evil entities off from our hunan world.
DMC3设定集(Set Collection):
血を分けた兄弟が、まるで憎しみ合っているみたいに争っていた。
でも、戦いを楽しんでいるようにも見えたわ。
有血缘关系的兄弟,就像相互憎恨一样在争斗。
但是,但他们似乎也在享受这场战斗。
Brothers who are related by blood are fighting as if they hate each other.
But, but they also seem to be enjoying the fight.
DMC3字幕(Subtitles):
二人は血を分けた兄弟のはずなのに
殺し合いのような戦いを統けていた
仲の良い兄弟喧嘩のようにも見えたけれど
两人虽然是亲兄弟但是却一直持续着互相残杀般的战斗
有时候看起来就像要好的兄弟在打架
Thongb the same blood of their father flowed through their veins, the mvo battled each other fiercely like arch enemies. It see med as if they derived some kind of twisted pleasure from this "brotherly" figbting.
在第一个对比设定集使用带有不肯定的句子,对于封印目的不确定性,而字幕中则只是提及他的行为,没目的。但我们从行为中判断出目的,这样行为会带来不再交集的结果。
第二个对比中设定集使用的句子是带有感情评价的【憎恨】而字幕的句子只是表述他们的行为。
当然,我们也可以从中推断出,互相残杀缘故是因为他们互相憎恨。
The use of sentences with uncertainty in the first contrasting set is uncertain as to the purpose of the seal, whereas the subtitles simply mention his behaviour, without purpose. But we determine the purpose from the act, so that the act would bring about the result of no further intersection.
The sentence used in the second comparison for the setting set is [hatred] with an emotional evaluation whereas the sentence in the subtitles simply expresses their behaviour.
Of course, we can also infer from this that the reason for killing each other is that they hate each other.
开场
Opening.
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在这个地方,没什么区别,斯巴达的儿子与继承斯巴达之血是同一个意思。本番也有正式开始的意思。与开场相呼应。
In this place there is little difference; son of Sparta and inheritance of the blood of Sparta mean the same thing.
This fan also has the meaning of the official beginning.
It echoes the opening scene.
1&2
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设定集中派对的意思相差不大,设定集偏向大的、了不起的派对,那相对应就是让人愉快的。1年没见,设定集里面一年后再见与字幕中1年前一个意思,剩下也是表示你会好好招待我的吧。
The meaning of a party in the set is not very different, the set leans towards a big, amazing party, so the opposite is enjoyable. 1 year has passed since I saw you, and I'll see you in a year in the set is the same as 1 year ago in the subtitles, so the rest is a sign that you'll treat me well.
3
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在这个地方,大体上没有区别。
In this place, there is no great difference.
4
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DMC3设定集(Set Collection):こいつァこの区画の発電装置でよ。
扉を開けるにはこいつに"アレ"をしなきゃいけねェんだ。
アレって分かるか、坊や?
それとも坊やにはまだ早かったかな?
这家伙是这个分区的发电装置哦。
开门必须要对这家伙做“那个”。
你知道那个吗,小子?
还是对孩子来说还太早了呢?
This guy is the power generator for this partition.
Open the door and you have to do "that" to this guy.
Do you know that one, kid?
Or is it too early for kids?
DMC3字幕(Subtitles):アレはこのエリアの発電機みたいなモノ
アレにアレしないとドアが開��ないわけよ
坊やはアレって何か分かる?
それともちょっと早過ぎたかな?
这个就像这个区域发电机一样的东西
这个没有那个的话是无法开门的
小孩子知道“那个”是什么吗?
还是现在对你说这个有点早?
That thing there is a power generator for this entire sector. In order to open the door, you need to apply a little "sometbing" to it first. Do you know what THAT is, kid? Or is that too difficnlt for you? Hababa!
大体上只是多了分区,没有太巨大的区别。
By and large there are just more divisions, no too huge a difference.
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在这个地方,大体上没有区别。
In this place, by and large, there is no difference.
但丁说:……条件付けてもいいか?看起来可能更像有点商量的意思,但其实也没有。
Dante says: ……条件付けてもいいか? It may seem more like a bit of negotiation, but it really isn't either.
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在这个地方,没有多大区别,字幕的なあ  愛しい娘よ!(啊 可爱的女儿啊!)与それは悲しいな。(那真是悲哀啊)其实是一个意思。
因为那是(曾)可爱的女儿,现在变成这样,真是悲哀。
In this place, it doesn't make much difference, the subtitles of なあ 愛しい娘よ! (O sweet daughter!) and それは悲しいな. (that's really sad) actually means the same thing.
Because that was (was) a lovely daughter, and now it's sad that she's become like this.
7&8
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这里出现在游戏内被删除或者说没有出现句子,获得信息被浓缩了。
Here it appears that the sentence was removed or did not appear within the game, and the information obtained was condensed.
但丁在这里有句被删除掉的话:それとも、そういう国から来たのか?(还是说,你是来自那样的国家的人?)
Is this some kind of weird custom where you come from?!
具体上并不影响,只是有了这句话更加体现但丁很愤怒而已。
It doesn't affect it specifically, it's just that with this phrase it's more indicative of Dante being angry.
设定集中的:イイ女は(好女人)。在英文被翻译成Babe。意思没有很大的区别。而在兄弟战斗画面中,阿卡姆呼唤维吉尔名字场景至少是语音也没有出现。
In the setting: イイ女は (good woman). In English it is translated as Babe. the meaning is not very different. And the scene where Arkham calls out Virgil's name in the Brothers' battle scene is not present, at least in voice.
而在设定集中阿卡姆对维吉尔所说的:ここは退くべきだ! 目的は達した。
在游戏里面没有出现维吉尔的回答:分かっている。(我知道)
And what Arkham says to Vergil in the setting episode: Koko hakubetsuka da! The purpose is achieved.
Vergil's reply: 分かっている does not appear inside the game. (I know)
DMC3设定集(Set Collection):
感じないか――人々の怨念を、怒りを。
二千年前。スパーダによって魔界への道は閉ざされ、魔を求めし人々はこの深淵(アプス)に封じられたのだ――
你没有感觉到吗--人们的怨恨和愤怒。
两千多年前。
通往魔界的道路被斯巴达关闭了,连同那些追求着魔的人一同被封在这个深渊里——
Don't you feel it - the resentment and anger of the people.
Over two thousand years ago.
The road to the demon world was closed by Sparta, and together with those who sought it, they were sealed in this abyss -
DMC3字幕(Subtitles):
感じるか?怨念を 怒りをこの地に封じられた哀れな者達
魔の力を求めた彼らと共にスパーダは魔界べの道を封じたのだ
感觉到了吗?其愤怒和怨念被封印在此地的可怜的人们追求恶魔力量的他们与魔界通道一同被斯巴达封印
Can't you feel it? The rage and ago nies of the people. Those who were confined here. With their desires for Evil being unfulfilled. It was all because Sparda slamed the door to the Demon World in their faces.
字幕中并没有提及人类的愤怒与怨念,
但英语配音是有的,总体来说区别不大。
Along with the magic passage being sealed by Sparta the subtitles do not mention the anger and resentment of the humans.
But the English dub is there, and overall there is little difference.
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开场杰斯特所说的话没有台词,但画面是有的,所以并没有问题。
There are no lines to what Jester says in the opening scene, but the footage is there, so it's not a problem.
DMC3设定集(Set Collection):
スパーダもいい男だったけど、貴方も案外、悪くないわ
Spartan is a good man, and you're unexpectedly good too.
DMC3字幕(Subtitles):
スパーダはいい男だったけど
あなたはどうかしらね?
Your father was a handsome devil, no pun intended. But yon're no slouch yourself.
看起来不一样,但实际字幕包含了她觉得满意,希望对方不要自己失望的意思,英文语言更接近设定集中的内容。然后Dante:Let's rock, baby… Yeah!过场没有说过,但但丁在表演。
It looks different, but the actual subtitles contain the idea that she feels satisfied and hopes the other person doesn't disappoint herself, and the English language is much closer to what is in the setting episode.
Then Dante: Let's rock, baby... yeah!
The transitions are not spoken, but Dante is performing.
to 2:https://noteofnaught.tumblr.com/post/656515004316680192/dmc3%E8%AE%BE%E5%AE%9A%E9%9B%86%E4%B8%8Edmc3%E5%AD%97%E5%B9%95%E5%AF%B9%E6%AF%94%E5%8F%AA%E8%A6%81%E6%98%AF%E6%97%A5%E8%AF%AD2-dmc3-set-collection-vs
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noteofnaught · 4 years ago
Text
内容全部都是个人意见与理解。这是之前为了活动写的,我个人认为谈不上对维吉尔分析,大概类似于某种梳理。
翻译还是可爱的deepl(翻译器)做的。
如果有什么错误或者问题请告诉我。
欢迎各种讨论。
The content is all personal opinion and understanding.This was written for activities before. Personally, I don't think Vergil can be analyzed. It is probably similar to some sort of combing.
The translation was done by the lovely deepl (translator).
Please let me know if there are any mistakes or problems.
All discussions are welcome.
维吉尔的童年曾经发生了什么
其实关于维吉尔在那天经历,官方有过非常明确的提及。
What happened to me in Vergil's childhood
In fact there is a very clear official reference to Vergil's experience on that day.
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父亲下落不明,那场火灾中母亲和胞弟因为未能及时赶回而死于仇人之手,在多年的行踪不明下,有在后续无尽的追杀中幸存下来。
尚且年幼维吉尔在童年经历这一一系列的变故后,认为弱小——也就是我们通常对当时发生的所有一切都无能为力的现象,他认为是一种罪。
弱小对于他而言是一种负面的表现。
他出现问题就会把问题归类于这是自己出现了问题而不是外部原因所造成的,看到这里,反过来我们也许会思考,为什么弱小会被他归类于是自己的问题?
没能保护母亲,没有能保护一同出生也没有任何想要共同承担起家庭责任的弟弟,又或者说他已经承担代替父亲保护母亲保护这个家的愿望彻底的破灭。
这所有的一切都是他的责任,所以他不应该怨恨其他人,没能保护好自己是过于弱小没有拥有力量的问题,而没有去思考别人伤害他这个行为根本就是错误的。
没有能力反抗伤害也是因为自身的弱小所造成的。
他将所有的问题都归纳在自己,是自己年幼无知的幼稚想法才让他失去了一切。
他“想要”很多东西,但“想要”这种需求对他而言是一种错误的贪婪行为。但凡他想要什么的时候,这种行为就会被归类于错误的一端,错误的欲望应当被压制,这让他兄长身份赋予超过这个年龄所有拥有的重压。
对于兄长的这个身份,不仅仅是他是他对自己的要求,其中还包含的有母亲对他的家庭角色定位,以及嘱托和期望。
从剧情中考虑伊娃只是一个普通的人类,一个年轻的单身母亲,亦不是圣母。就算是普通的家庭里,对于长子应该承担多一点做法也是完全合情合理的要求。
唯独在这样的家庭里,这种要求变成了对自己的苛责,在这样的家庭里,昔日的英雄下落不明,年轻的母亲因为需要带着孩子躲避灾祸而忧心忡忡,唯一能减轻母亲的负担的只有自己,在这样的情况下他还需要塑造达成兄长这样一个角色。
在这里,他角色定位被反复强调,他是什么样的角色远比他是谁更为重要。
His father's whereabouts are unknown, his mother and brother died at the hands of enemies when they failed to return in time from the fire, and after years of uncertainty about his whereabouts, he survived the endless chase that followed.
Still young, Vergil, having experienced this series of changes in his childhood, considered weakness - that is, the phenomenon that we are usually powerless against all that is happening at the time - to be a sin.
Weakness is a negative for him.
When he has a problem, he attributes it to the fact that it is his own problem and not to an external cause.
He had failed to protect his mother, his brother who was born with him and had no desire to share the responsibility of the family, or his desire to protect his mother and the family in place of his father had been completely dashed.
All of this was his responsibility, so he shouldn't have resented the others, failing to protect himself was a matter of being too weak to have power, and not thinking about the fact that the act of others hurting him was simply wrong.
The inability to resist harm is also the result of one's own weakness.
He blamed himself for all the problems, and it was his own childish thoughts of youthful ignorance that cost him everything.
He "wanted" many things, but the need to "want" was for him an act of misguided greed. But whenever he wants something, this behaviour is classified at the wrong end of the scale, and the wrong desire should be suppressed, which puts the weight of his elder brotherhood on him beyond all that he possesses at this age.
The role of older brother was not only a requirement for him, but also included his mother's role as a family man, and her wishes and expectations of him.
Considering the plot, Eva is just an ordinary human being, a young single mother, and not a saintly mother. Even in an ordinary family, it is a perfectly reasonable request that the eldest son should be given more responsibility.
Only in such a family, where the whereabouts of the former hero are unknown, where the young mother is worried because she needs to take the child away from the calamity, where the only one who can relieve her burden is himself, and where he needs to shape up to reach the role of older brother.
Here, the positioning of his character is repeatedly emphasised, the kind of character he is being far more important than who he is.
在三代里,阿卡姆曾经这样形容过爱丽丝。
In the DMC3, Arkham once described Alice in this way.
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被人讨厌的孩子,也不受到父母的喜爱,这个孩子自己都讨厌自己。
所以迫切希望长大,能够让自己坚强起来,不想再当一个幼稚的孩子。
维吉尔情形与她是类似的,当天因为生气的缘故跑了出去,然后发生那样的悲剧,而出去的理由对一个小孩子而言再正常不过。
三代漫画人物简介中,你会看到维吉尔认为母亲更偏爱但丁,在漫画VOV的剧情也得以见到这种想法的根源。
剧情很明显的向我们表达出:但丁让维吉尔陪自己玩,而维吉尔想要独处,最后在明显不是由自己挑起事端的状况下,母亲仍然责怪他,认为他应该迁就弟弟的要求。
这样的情况在家庭有复数孩子经常会出现——让年纪大一点的迁就年幼的孩子。当他们之间发生争执,那无论什么原因,错的都是年纪大一点的孩子,因为年幼应该被保护应该被善待仿佛是一种理所当然的存在。
这事一种显而易见的偏袒,当然在这里我们并不是要争论这个行为的对错,而是同样尚且年幼的维吉尔也同样知道这样的偏袒行为是一种不公正对待,就算他比弟弟早出生那么几秒钟,那他也希望周围的对象能和他一样以理服人,而不需要母亲以大道理来偏袒弟弟,用这种方式来苛责自己。
The child who is hated is also not loved by his parents; the child himself hates himself.
So desperate to grow up and be able to toughen myself up and not want to be a childish child again.
Vergil was in a similar situation to her, having run away that day in anger and then having a tragedy like that, for reasons that were perfectly normal for a small child.
In the character profiles of the three generations of comics, you will see that Vergil believes that his mother prefers Dante, and you will be able to see the roots of this idea in the storyline of the comic VOV.
The plot is clearly expressed to us: Dante asks Vergil to play with him, while Vergil wants to be left alone, and in the end, in a situation where it is clear that he did not start the trouble, his mother still blames him, believing that he should have accommodated his brother's demands.
This is often the case in families with more than one child - the older child is allowed to give way to the younger one. When there is an argument between them, it is the older child who is at fault for whatever reason, because it is as if the younger child should be protected and treated well as if it were a matter of course.
This is a clear case of favouritism, and of course we are not arguing about the rightness or wrongness of this action, but Vergil, who is also young, knows that such favouritism is an injustice, even if he was born a few seconds before his brother, and he wants to be surrounded by people who are as reasonable as he is, and does not need his mother to favour his brother with her reasoning and to criticise himself in this way.
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因为弱会导致死亡,无论他者还是自身。
可以看出DMC3维吉尔名台词:「没有力量你无法保护任何东西,即使是你自己」的由来。
兄长的身份让他认为自己应当承担责任,承担父亲的遗产等等,但悲剧变故是引发他扭曲责任感的源头。
三代漫画人物简介中你也可以看到,维吉尔认为但丁分走了属于自己一半的力量。
正义基本要素就是公平。
你有母亲的爱与保护,那父亲的力量归属就给我了吧,这是公平的。
你有母亲的保护,那我要父亲的保护,这是公平的。
为什么这个是你的,这个也是你的呢?这不公平。
在DMC5我们可以看到经典那一幕,V在说完斯巴达之刃(父亲)保护了但丁之后情绪严重失控。
说出了:“如果你不存在…………”
这句话可以引申出很多含义:如果你不在的话,自己就能拥有全部力量去保护母亲,母亲就不会死。如果你不在话,父亲也会保护我之类。
经过以上举例,我们会发现这些引申都是一些人很常见的想法,打开网络页面去搜索或者询问身边有兄弟姐妹的朋友,会发现这些情况是存在的,他们或多或少存在过以上这些问题,毕竟兄弟姐妹的存在,确实一定程度上分走本可能全部属于自己的资源。
孩子自私希望全部都属于自己,是人之常情。
当然,公平性是很重要的,但公平性也会有非常残忍的一面。
就如同你有一盒子巧克力,决定奖励给学生,通过考试测验,你奖励给了学习成绩更好那一个,因为你认为他很努力所以学习成绩好。
而这一刻公平性残忍出现在地方是:有其他孩子,因为下课之后还需要帮助父母工作,导致他学习时间与精力不能与其他人相比,于是他成绩不如其他人。
知识测试题目,人人都一样,所以这是公平,但每个人拥有学习时间、资源却并不一致;于是这就出现非公平。
弱者与强者同台比拼,靠体能决定胜负,但为什么这是不公平?因为弱者与强者之间体能本身就已经天差地别。
理同恶魔与人类,人类就是比恶魔在体能上弱小,所以恶魔与人类之间如果存在斗争,那就是不公平,是强者在欺负弱者。
于是,我们就可以称呼该行为属于非正义行为。
这也是为什么当我们看到,体育运动这类带有竞争性比赛上,在各方面不占先天优势的人赢了占先天优势的人,会如此热血沸腾的缘故之一。
维吉尔对公平性要求是刻入骨子的程度,从DMC5中他复活后与但丁对话到DMC1中黑天使从不偷袭而要求堂堂正正战斗,都能体现这一点。
无论对手是谁,堂堂正正是要务,大概只能阿卡姆能够破列吧,虽然阿卡姆其实不算对手。
维吉尔(V)在漫画里面不断责问自己,他的责问并不是,【自己为什么没有赢】而是【自己为什么会输】。
为什么没有赢与为什么会输,看起来是相同的东西,但提问方向是不一样的。
【为什么没有赢】是处于认为自己各方面条件都很好,没有破绽的是应该会赢才对;而【为什么会输】责问是自身到底那里做的不够好,才导致失败。
这其实也是符合维吉尔内在归因的问题。
他认为他与但丁之间应当是平等,而不是一高一低。
在VoV漫画里面有一段监督关于:在V噩梦中为什么出现的是叛逆而不是力之刃的解析。 是因为维吉尔觉得,叛逆与阎魔都是各自属于他们,而斯巴达之刃是属于他们共同所有的。
而但丁与维吉尔在经历那一天之后,他们所在社会、拥有的资源已经完全不一致。
维吉尔所在的社会看起来是人类的社会,但实际是恶魔的丛林社会。
蒙杜斯的追杀让他一直生活一个恶魔丛林里面,这个丛林唯一的法则就是:弱肉强食。
谁也不能够完全付托信任,天知道那是不是蒙杜斯派来恶魔伪装的。
“同伴”“信仰”那是与恶魔毫无关系的东西,甚至是导致其丧命的。
另一边的但丁用他自己所说的最为合适「グルーに言われた通りだぜ。オレは大甘の甘ちゃんで、 奴やあんた に甘えっぱなしだったんだな」
【一切确如格鲁所说,我以前太天真单纯/天真到傻,尽跟他还有你撒娇/尽是依赖你们】
但丁遇到了愿意保护他愿意引导他的格鲁、待他如同自己孩子的尼尔(妮可的婆婆)。
可以说但丁在一个充满爱的环境下长大,有能够依赖的人,能够像孩子一样长大。
我们看新闻或者小说也会经常提到,那种单亲家庭或者孤儿的孩子,会比一般孩子更早熟一点,并不是他们心理状态真的已经是完全的成年人了,而是环境迫使他们必须承担更多东西。
在生活中得像成年人一样处事或者工作,老成的可怕。
但丁自己的话,自证他并没有变成那种老成可怕的人。
这里不是说,谁比谁更惨一点,没有比惨的意思。
而是在说,他们两个人从那一天开始,遇到的人/事,生活的环境是不一样的,经历也不一样,拥有的资源更不一样。
这些都是让他们为何看起来如此不同关键之一。
当然维吉尔介意从来不是,但丁待遇更好资源更好,而是父母。
V的台词:“我也曾想要爱与保护,但我孤身一人,除了生存别无选择。”
这里爱与保护,不论是英文还是日语表达都是过去时,是曾经渴望过的东西,而他现在已经放弃不再“贪心”,再结合前面V在斯巴达之刃那里失控,还有但丁对U所说的“母亲并没抛弃你。”
我们其实可以得出V(维吉尔)真正介意的并不是但丁比他幸运比他过的好,但丁拥有一切包括名声等等其实都可以都不在乎的,内心唯一纠结妒忌过的是父母的保护与爱。
可是想要,甚至妒忌弟弟能有父母的爱与保护。
这一点上连维吉尔自己都在鄙视自己。
在遭受痛苦的时候,孩子渴望父母保护是非常天然的一件事情,对于孩子来说,父母是如同神一样的存在。
那么在遭受恶魔袭击的维吉尔而言,会产生希望母亲来救自己的想法,是非常自然的一件事。
而孩子在遭受痛苦时候父母没有出现,会产生遭受遗弃感觉也是非常理所当然的结论。
我们可以在很多儿童心理学上找到无数的案列,甚至在日常生活中见到,有这样的一些人,他们会逗弄孩子,告诉他:你妈妈没来找你就是不要你了。这些行为都会将孩子弄哭,甚至产生对孩子的心理造成严重的影响。
这让很多人批判这种逗孩子的行为,也有很多人在网络上发表自己遭受过这种行为后留下很多心理阴影,多年都无法释怀。
当然,人在遭受自己无法抵抗苦难的时候,渴望得救想法也是非常自然的事情。
这种想法与维吉尔想要保护自己的母亲的想法完全是不矛盾的。
可为什么要鄙视这种自然而的想法呢?
因为作为这种想法是作为一个兄长、保护家庭的角色定位里面不应该有的。
或者换成那种最令人厌恶的表达方式,就像有亲戚告诉你:你妈妈怎么来救你啊?飞过去来救你吗?你怎么可以这样想?你妈妈为了救你都死了啦!你怎么那么没用,真给你爹妈丢人!腿断了有啥大不了的,你有手啊?你一个男人怎么那么矫情,不就说几句嘛?要大气一点!懂吗?你学学你弟弟,你学学你爸爸啊。别那么丢人现眼好吗?要大气一点!懂吗?别那么小鸡肚肠子。你爹妈都死还惦记这个?现在小孩子真不行,我那会儿不也这样过来的吗?
如果刚好是一个神经比较大条,大概可能笑笑就算了,但如果撞上一个非常敏感的人,那么这些话几乎就是核弹级别了。
人的情绪是复杂,有时候并非完全单一的情绪,在一些电视节目采访里面,那些做出英雄举动的普通人,也会告诉你,其实当时自己也不是不害怕的。
我们可以随着时间或者成长释怀某些东西,但维吉尔人生(DMC5之前)还没能得到这些。
最终,维吉尔对这一切又重新落回去,对自己的恨意之上。
在这个简介中还会提到,维吉尔对自己作为半魔是非常自卑的,同时也是一个理性的、个人主义者。
作为人类,并不纯正,作为恶魔又是个半调子,那边都不是又同时被两边嫌弃。
而身为半魔注定了,作为人类伴随而来的人类情感,这些情感自然包括负面感情。
DMC3里面维吉尔作为一个冷酷无情的恶魔,却又被阿卡姆耍了一番,虽然他们的合作本质是建立在互相利用之上。
但对人性透彻与坚定不移牺牲一切获得力量的阿卡姆而言,维吉尔也不过是一个毫无防备便于利用的孩子罢了。
在DMC3过场中,我们可以看到维吉尔与阿卡姆之间互动,维吉尔非常嫌弃并厌恶阿卡姆,而他也并非像他战斗时候表现的那样,冷酷无情,精准切割;相反是一个拥有浓烈感情,甚至一定程度是脆弱而敏感的。
他会被阿卡姆的嘲讽他不过是不完整半人半魔杂种而极其愤怒,过场动画还给了愤怒的维吉尔一个特写镜头。
其后游戏过场中还有日后经常被各路玩家提梗:Why it doesn't work!!
维吉尔因机器不工作而大为愤怒,仿佛一个小孩子遇到困难时候,毫无办法只能在那边生闷气;还有M13过场动画中他发现被阿卡姆欺骗,气的咬牙切齿的表情。
他会被但丁话语简单激怒,又会因为蕾蒂说他利用阿卡姆,而语带嘲讽。
这些都是作为人的情绪,起源于非理性。
好的,我们再次要提及他们成长环境带来的影响。
在官方出版刊物中,在解析但丁与维吉尔关系之前,有这么一段话作为前序。
「在梦中有时会有这样的人物出现,他们做着自己绝不可能做的事情,有着和自己完全不一样的行为。会经常让梦中的自己非常烦躁不安。他们即便张着一张自己非常熟悉的朋友的脸,但却怎么也回忆不起那张脸是谁。
根据荣格所分类的6种梦境原型来看,这种现象叫做阴影理论。人出生之后,受成长环境,本人秉性的影响形成了人格。但是不管是多么温厚,替人着想的人格,冷彻,残酷,利己这部分是不会消失的。这部分人格在人们潜意识里静静存活。这就是阴影理论,应该说是被隐藏起来的人格。
能否将鬼泣3的但丁与维吉尔当作互为影子的存在?」
For weakness leads to death, whether of the other or of oneself.
One can see the origin of DMC3 Vergil's famous line: 'Without strength you cannot protect anything, even yourself'.
Being the older brother makes him think he should take responsibility, take on his father's legacy, etc., but the tragic turn of events is what triggers his twisted sense of responsibility.
As you can see in the character profiles of the three generations of comics, Vergil believes that Dante has taken half of the power that belongs to him.
The basic element of justice is fairness.
You have the love and protection of your mother, so it's fair that the father's power belongs to me.
You have the protection of the mother, then I want the protection of the father; that is fair.
Why should this be yours and this be yours? It's not fair.
In DMC5 we can see that classic scene where V loses a serious emotional outburst after saying that the Blade of Sparta (the father) has protected Dante.
Speaking out, "If you didn't exist ............"
There are many meanings that can be derived from this statement: if you had not existed, he would have had all the power to protect his mother and she would not have died. If you were not there, my father would have protected me and so on.
If you search the internet or ask your friends who have siblings, you will find that these situations do exist, and that they have had these problems to some extent.
It is only human for children to be selfish and want it all for themselves.
Of course, fairness is important, but fairness can also have a very cruel side.
It is as if you had a box of chocolates and decided to reward a student, and through a test you rewarded the one who did better in school because you thought he had worked hard and therefore did well in school.
And where this moment of fairness cruelty appears is that there are other children who, because they have to help their parents with their work after class, are not able to compare with the others in terms of time and energy spent studying, and so he does not do as well as the others.
The knowledge test questions are the same for everyone, so this is fair, but everyone has the time and resources to study but not the same; so this appears non-fair.
The weak and the strong compete on the same stage and rely on physical ability to decide the winner, but why is this unfair? Because the physical ability of the weak and the strong is already very different from each other.
So if there is a struggle between demons and humans, it is unfair, the stronger bullying the weaker.
We can then call the act an act of injustice.
This is one of the reasons why we get so worked up when we see, in a competitive competition such as sport, someone who is not innately superior in every way win against someone who is.
Vergil's demand for fairness is engrained in his bones to a degree that is evident from his conversation with Dante after his resurrection in DMC5 to the Black Angels never sneaking up on him but demanding a square fight in DMC1.
No matter who the opponent is, tangibility is a priority, and probably only Arkham can break the list, although Arkham is not really an opponent.
Vergil (V) constantly berates himself in the manga, not so much for [why he didn't win] but for [why he lost].
Why he didn't win and why he lost seem to be the same thing, but the direction of questioning is different.
The question "Why didn't you win" is based on the belief that you were in a good position to win, and that there were no flaws in your game.
This, in fact, is also in line with Vergil's internal attribution problem.
He believes that there should be equality between him and Dante, not one above the other.
There is a passage in the VoV comic that oversees the resolution of why it is Rebellion and not the Blade of Power that appears in the V Nightmare.
It is because Vergil feels that both Rebellion and Yama belong to them individually, while the Blade of Sparta belongs to them jointly.
And Dante and Vergil, after that day, are in societies and have resources that are completely at odds with each other.
Vergil was in a society that appeared to be human, but in reality was a demonic jungle society.
Mundus' hunt has kept him in a demonic jungle where the only law is that the weak are the strong.
No one can be fully trusted, and God knows if it was Mundus who sent the demon in disguise.
"Companionship" and "faith" are things that have nothing to do with demons, even if they lead to their death.
Dante on the other side uses his own words most appropriately, "グルーに言われた通りだぜ. Ore wa da gan no gan chan de, nuiya aanta ni gan e jin shi dana
[It's true what Guru said, I was too naive and simple/naive enough to pamper myself with him and you/relied on you all the time]
Dante meets Gru, who is willing to protect him and guide him, and Neal (Nicole's mother-in-law), who treats him like her own child.
You could say that Dante grew up in a loving environment, with people he could rely on and grow up like a child.
It is often mentioned in the news or in novels that children from single-parent families or orphans are a little more mature than the average child, not because they are really fully grown mentally, but because the environment forces them to take on more.
Having to conduct themselves or work like adults in life, the old age is frightening.
Dante's own words testify to himself that he did not turn out to be one of those old and scary people.
Here it is not saying that who is a little more miserable than who, there is no comparison of misery.
Rather, it is saying that the two of them have encountered different people/events, lived in different circumstances, had different experiences, and had even more different resources since that day.
These are all part of the keys that make them seem so different.
Of course Vergil minded that it was never, Dante who was treated better and had better resources, but his parents.
V's line, "I too have wanted love and protection, but I was alone and had no choice but to survive."
Here love and protection, whether expressed in English or Japanese, are in the past tense, something that was once desired and which he has now given up and is no longer "greedy" for, combined with V's loss of control at the Spartan Blade earlier, and Dante's words to U, "Mother did not abandon you. "
The only thing V (Vergil) really cares about is not that Dante is luckier than he is, but that Dante has everything he needs, including fame, and could care less, and that the only thing he is jealous of is his parents' protection and love.
But he wanted, and was even jealous of, his brother's love and protection.
Even Vergil himself despises himself for this.
In times of suffering, it is natural for a child to long for parental protection; to a child, parents are like gods.
It is natural, then, for Vergil, who has been attacked by a demon, to want his mother to come to his rescue.
And it is only natural that the child would feel abandoned if his parents were not present when he was suffering.
We can find countless cases in child psychology, and even in everyday life, of people who tease the child by telling him that if your mother doesn't come to you, she doesn't want you. All these actions can make the child cry and even produce serious psychological effects on the child.
This has led many people to criticise this kind of teasing, and many have posted on the internet that they have been subjected to this behaviour and it has left many psychological shadows that they have not been able to let go of for many years.
Of course, it is only natural for people to long for salvation when they are suffering from something they cannot resist.
Such thoughts are not at all incompatible with Vergil's desire to protect his mother.
But why should one despise such a natural thought?
Because such thoughts are not to be found in the role of an older brother, a protector of the family.
Or to put it in the most disgusting way, like when a relative tells you: How is your mother going to come to your rescue? Fly over to save you? How can you think like that? Your mother died trying to save you! Why are you so useless? You're a disgrace to your parents! What's the big deal if your leg is broken? You have a hand? You're a man, why are you so pretentious? Behave yourself! You know what I mean? You learn from your brother, you learn from your father. Don't be so embarrassed, okay? Behave yourself! You know what? Don't be such a chicken. Your parents are dead and you're still thinking about it? It's not good for kids these days. I was like that when I was a kid.
If you happen to be a person with a lot of nerves, you might laugh it off, but if you run into someone who is very sensitive, then these words are almost nuclear.
People have complex emotions and sometimes they are not completely monolithic. In some TV interviews, ordinary people who do heroic acts will also tell you that they were not unafraid at the time.
We can let go of certain things over time or as we grow up, but Vergil hasn't been able to get that in his life (before DMC5).
Eventually, Vergil falls back on top of it all, on top of his hatred for himself.
It will also be mentioned in this synopsis that Vergil is very inferior to himself as a half-demon, as well as being a rational, individualist.
Not pure as a human, and half-toned as a demon, neither side and disliked by both at the same time.
And being half-demon predestines, as humans come with human emotions, and these naturally include negative feelings.
In DMC3 Vergil, a cold and ruthless demon, is again played by Arkham, although the nature of their partnership is based on mutual exploitation.
But to Arkham, a man with a thorough understanding of human nature and a determination to sacrifice everything to gain power, Vergil is nothing more than a defenceless child who can be used.
In the DMC3 overworld, we see Vergil interacting with Arkham, who Vergil dislikes and loathes greatly, and who is not as cold and precise and cutting as he appears to be in battle; instead, he is a man of strong emotions, and even a degree of vulnerability and sensitivity.
He is extremely angry at Arkham's taunt that he is nothing more than an incomplete half-human, half-demon bastard, and the overworld animation gives a close-up of an angry Vergil.
Later on in the game, there is also a frequent reference to Why it doesn't work!
Vergil is furious that the machine doesn't work, as if he is a child in trouble and has no choice but to sulk, and the M13 overworld animation shows him gritting his teeth in anger when he realises he has been tricked by Arkham.
He will be simply angered by Dante's words, and then mocked by Letty's comment about him using Arkham.
These are emotions that originate as human beings and are irrational.
Well, once again we have to mention the influence of the environment in which they were brought up.
In the official publication, before parsing Dante's relationship with Vergil, there is this passage as a preface.
"In dreams such characters sometimes appear who do things they could never do and behave in a way completely different from themselves. They can often be very disturbing to the dreamer. Even though they have the face of a friend whom they know very well, they cannot recall who that face is.
According to the six dream archetypes classified by Jung, this phenomenon is called the shadow theory. After birth, a person's personality is formed by the environment in which he or she grows up and by his or her own nature. But no matter how gentle and considerate the personality is, the cold, cruel and egoistic part of the personality does not disappear. This part of the personality lives on in the subconscious. This is the shadow theory, the hidden personality, I should say.
Can you think of Dante and Vergil in Ghostbusters 3 as being in the shadow of each other?
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维吉尔作为这个名字拥有者,神曲中理性的代表。
我们先将这部分作为他本性存在,在dmc3也提及过,名字是一个恶魔的如同原型一样的东西。
通常情况下,我们正常生活中,理性会让我们控制住自己的兽性。
而维吉尔一般情况展示给大众是这样的一个形象:冷酷无情、自我中心、冷漠,像恶魔一样自私自利,为了一己之私而不惜牺牲其他任何事物。
在人类社会中,即使人性确实存在这样的负面部分,但被认为这是劣等的人,社会提倡我们要为他人着想;我们成长在一个有铁序安全的和平的社会之中,周围的人也是温柔善良的人,那么我们自然也会受到影响,把属于人性之中不好的兽性部分,压制下去。
即使我们受到社会道德影响与本性等等反面的影响,那些阴影的部分也绝对不会消失。
我们依旧存在着人性里面包含着负面那一部分,会为了自身安逸、利益等原因破坏环境,发动战争。
在地球上存在着这一边生活的是在安稳中烦恼着金钱、家庭、朋友、理想等的人们,而另一边却是在战火的废墟里卑微祈祷着能够活下来的人。
我们得到东西、思考的方式与我们生活的社会有着密切的联系。
而维吉尔生存的社会是一个怎么样的社会呢?他展示出来的是自己生存的社会,是一个恶魔社会。
他整个人内外翻转了。
人的兽性在内部,人性在外部。
但维吉尔他的兽性在外部,人性反而在里面。
在刊物描述中,对维吉尔与但丁之间关系总结是:「处于对极的但丁与维吉尔,他们之间的战斗其实也是与另一个自己的战斗。但丁、维吉尔互为影子,同时互为光芒。但丁与维吉尔的关系就是,通过彼此的存在而成就自己。」
而在dmc3故事结局,也符合这个描述的。
维吉尔故事最后,让但丁离开,无论从对话中还是行为中都没有体现出,他打算独占力量,而是他认可但丁想要作为人类活下去的想法。
他行为与态度确实是存在着爱,并不是利己的而是利他的,给予但丁爱与希望。
也正如荣格的阴影理论所言:阴影是我们生命力之源,我们需要整合到我们自身当中去。
也亦如荣格那句:当爱支配一切时,权力就不存在了;当权力主宰一切时,爱就消失了。两者互为对方的影子。
维吉尔也许希望过爱,但他所在社会决定了,是权力主宰一切。
人性现在都成为维吉尔的阴影部分,没有被恶魔完全同化掉,甚至可以称为奇迹。
Vergil as the bearer of this name, the representative of reason in the Divine Comedy.
We will start with this part as the presence of his nature, also mentioned in dmc3, the name of which is a demon as if it were an archetype.
Usually, in our normal lives, reason keeps us in control of our bestiality.
Vergil, on the other hand, generally presents the public with an image of being cold, self-centred, indifferent, self-serving like a demon, and willing to sacrifice anything else for his own selfish ends.
In human society, even though such negative parts of human nature do exist, they are considered to be inferior and society promotes us to think of others; we grow up in a peaceful society with iron order security and surrounded by gentle and kind people, then we are naturally influenced to suppress the bad bestial parts that belong to human nature.
Even if we are influenced by social and moral influences and the opposite of our nature and so on, those shadow parts will never disappear.
We still have the negative part of human nature that destroys the environment and starts wars for our own comfort, profit and other reasons.
On one side of the planet exist people who live in peace and worry about money, family, friends, ideals, etc., while on the other side are people who are humbly praying to survive in the ruins of war.
The way we get things and think about them is closely linked to the society in which we live.
And what kind of a society does Vergil survive in? What he shows is the society in which he survives, a society of demons.
His whole being flipped inside and out.
Man's bestiality is on the inside, his humanity on the outside.
But Vergil his bestiality is on the outside, his humanity on the inside instead.
The relationship between Vergil and Dante is summed up in the publication's description as follows: "Dante and Vergil, at opposite ends of the spectrum, are in fact fighting with their other selves. Dante and Vergil are each other's shadows and at the same time, they are each other's light. The relationship between Dante and Vergil is that of being made whole by the presence of each other.
And in the dmc3 story ending, which also fits this description.
Virgil's story ends by letting Dante go, and it does not come across, either in the dialogue or in his behaviour, that he intends to monopolise the power, but rather that he recognises Dante's desire to live as a human being.
There is indeed love in his behaviour and attitude, not self-interested but altruistic, giving Dante love and hope.
It is also as Jung's theory of shadows states: shadows are the source of our life force, which we need to integrate into ourselves.
It is also as Jung said: When love rules everything, power ceases to exist; when power rules everything, love disappears. The two are each other's shadow.
Virgil may have wished for love, but the society he lived in dictated that it was power that ruled.
Humanity is now all a shadow part of Vergil, and it may even be called a miracle that the demon has not been completely assimilated away.
关于父亲
About father
维吉尔简介中也提及,他渴望超越自己的父亲。
恶魔=父亲。
这反馈到DMC主题中之一。
超越父亲。
这个命题到底还是建立自我、成长。
在古典的故事里面,角色都是通过击败上一辈或者象征父亲的角色,来证明自我的确立,摆脱父亲,对自我的肯定。
他渴望超越父亲带来不止是荣耀还有包含其中的自由与自我。
但恶魔给予他带来是无穷无尽的伤害与压制,先不提后面dmc1中蒙杜斯的事情,我们从他小时候第一次遇见恶魔开始。
他当时作为一个恶魔的受害者,第一次面对恶魔力量带来的感受,并不是自由与安全,而是应当是恐惧。我们在可以在漫画VoV中看到,当他遭遇恶魔攻击时候,他是没有还手的能力,直接被贯穿胸口倒在地上,并非常自然伸手呼喊求救,感觉到巨大的疼痛。
Vergil's profile also mentions that he aspired to surpass his father.
Devil = Father.
This feeds into one of the DMC themes.
Beyond the Father.
The proposition is ultimately about building the self and growing.
Within the classical stories, the characters are proving self-establishment, freedom from the father, and affirmation of the self by defeating the previous generation or the character who symbolises the father.
His desire to rise above his father brought not only glory but also the freedom and ego contained therein.
But the demon gives him is endlessly hurtful and oppressive, leaving aside for a moment what happens to Mundus later in dmc1, where we start with his first encounter with the demon as a child.
The feelings he felt at that time as a victim of a demon, the first time he faced demonic power, were not freedom and safety, but should have been fear. As we can see in the comic VoV, when he is attacked by the demon, he is incapable of fighting back and falls to the ground straight through the chest and very naturally reaches out and cries for help, feeling great pain.
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他根本没有抵抗这股力量的能力,是恶魔在用力量在伤害他,而不是他用力量战胜了恶魔。
他是讨厌受伤的,在DMC3过场动画里面,维吉尔需要用鲜血才能激活祭坛,那一幕里面我们可以清晰看到,当他割开自己手心时候,极度厌恶的表情。
然后,他在DMC1再次受到恶魔力量严重摧残,在这里恶魔力量给予他的感受其实依旧是恐惧。
是的,没有力量,他活不下,自身难保,这次连自我都再次被夺走,成为蒙杜斯复仇的玩偶。
He had no power at all to resist this power; it was the demon that was hurting him with its power, not he that had overcome it with it.
He hates being wounded, and in the DMC3 overworld animation, Vergil needs blood to activate the altar, and in that scene we can clearly see the look of utter disgust on his face when he cuts open his palm.
Then, he was again badly ravaged by demonic forces in DMC1, where the feelings they gave him actually remained fearful.
Yes, without power he could not live, he could not defend himself, and this time even his ego was once again taken from him, becoming a doll for Mundus' revenge.
在DMC5的小说中,可以看到蒙杜斯征服黑天使描述是这样的
In the DMC5 novel, Mundus' conquest of the nelo Angels can be seen described as follows
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蒙杜斯认为项链是维吉尔渴望的力量的象征。
改造后一直不愿意服从他的黑天使,在给予项链之后,终于服从于他。
但是我们在VoV漫画中知道,阎魔刀才是维吉尔追求力量的代表,阎魔刀才是力量的象征。
他是通过阎魔存活的,如同DMC4一样阎魔激活尼禄的力量,让尼禄重生。
阎魔就像他的化身一样,是维吉尔践行的力量之道。
Mundus saw the necklace as a symbol of the power that Vergil craved.
The nelo Angel, who had been reluctant to obey him after the transformation, finally obeyed him after being given the necklace.
But we know in the VoV manga that it is the Yama sword that represents Vergil's quest for power; the Yama sword is the symbol of power.
He survives through Yama, and as in DMC4 Yama activates Nero's power and brings him back to life.
Yama is like his avatar, the way of power that Vergil practises.
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那项链在这里代表是什么?
So what does the necklace represent here?
那项链在这里代表是什么?
首先,这个项链并非他的父亲给他,反而是属于母亲的遗物。
代表是母亲对他的爱,而不是父亲对他的爱。项链更加是属于他的东西,独一无二的东西。母亲对他的爱也是,是理应无法被抢走的东西。那这里项链代表应当是父母的爱,母亲对他的爱。而不是力量。蒙杜斯通过爱让黑天使完全接受控制,从而使自己的恶魔力量能够腐蚀维吉尔。作为黑天使的时候,拥有可不仅仅自尊的严重伤害,也并非毫无益处。作为黑天使的时候,他确实是安全的,受到庇护的。
剥夺思考带来同时也是不需要承受压力与重坦的状态,但确实是扯线的玩偶。他自尊是完全不能够接受这样的耻辱。维吉尔自然是憎恨厌恶自己人性(感情)懦弱的,这之后击败他刚好又是宿命的对手,但丁。
但丁不仅仅是他弟弟,也是作为“斯巴达之子”有力竞争对手,他们两个是双胞胎,都继承了父亲一部分的东西。
而DMC1游戏过场中,我们都可以从台词中知道,恶魔眼中的但丁就像斯巴达一样。
DMC3中贝奥武夫也直接喊着但丁是那个垃圾斯巴达。
那么,作为黑天使的维吉尔,其实就像被斯巴达打败一样。
他不但没有达成超越父亲的渴望,而是又一次遭受到恶魔力量摧残,最后一次甚至是来自于自己敬畏的父亲代言人也是自己宿命对手但丁,那相当于父亲否定了他。
我们都知道维吉尔崇尚力量甚至可以说崇拜力量,完全可以从DMC3里面他不择手段想要获得斯巴达力量跟M20中与但丁最后一战那一句:“我需要更多力量。”看出来。
同时,我们从但丁口中得知维吉尔是很敬畏自己的父亲的,在前面官方刊物内容中也有提及到这个。
一般来说造成人对某个事物的崇拜,理由有很多种,但我们这里先不说其他的,而是说最原始的一种,在一些电视历史节目或者传统神话故事里面,我们可以看到古代的人崇拜的神灵并不是那种满足人类愿望的神灵,比如说龙神,在一些地方是这样的传说,要每年定期安排祭品进行祭祀,而不进行的话龙神就会发怒,淹掉整条村子。
那些崇拜龙神的人并不是在感恩龙神保佑他们,而是在害怕龙神的惩罚,是对被毁灭的恐惧,
人们为龙神进行祭祀仪式以确保自己是安全。当然也有另外一种形式,就是通过“晒龙王”这种行为,从而证明自己获得比龙神更强的力量,在心理上确保自己是安全。
但无论是那一个方法,村民们其实都已经遭受过严重灾难,那些恐惧深深刻他们脑海之中。
维吉尔已经被恶魔力量摧残过很多次,他内心对恶魔力量恐惧理应在DMC1之后达到最高峰,同时崇拜也达到了巅峰。
但同样不可否认恶魔力量确实一定程度为他带来安全感,但这是一种一直在漏水的安全感。
即使他后来拿起这个伤害他的东西作为武器,也没有完全摆脱恶魔力量给他带来巨大创伤。
他生活环境也没有提供给他一个安稳的环境,导致他也失去重新认识自我与审视的机会。
那么让我们谈谈别的,他对母亲的感受。
维吉尔人性有很多负面想法,甚至有维吉尔认为可耻的想法,这些我们都知道了。
他对于回忆母亲会感觉哀伤而不是被爱着的安慰,这一点在DMC5里面V在游戏里面与格蕾芬交谈中可以得知。
而在DMC3个人简介描述中,对于身为人类的母亲则是抱有类似乡愁,但又会使他重新感受到自己身为人类,并且唤起对自身厌恶的存在。乡愁是一种再也无法回去又无法拥有的,又深深挂念着的充满哀伤的感情,而更加会想起那天惨剧,自己当时作为人类的无能导致母亲死亡甚至渴望得救的可耻想法,从而更加无法克制产生恨意。
维吉尔每当回忆起自己母亲或者如同VoV里面V去但丁事务所时候,看见母亲照片那种时候的厌恶的表情,他的表现就是无法控制自己的厌恶。
如果他只是单纯恨自己母亲,恨他抛弃了自己,那理应不会对母亲抱有乡愁的感情,毕竟正常情况下我们是不会去挂念我们恨着的东西甚至不会去一直惦记那些自己讨厌的东西,而V过场与格蕾芬台词:“说不想是在说谎。但过去……对我来说很是痛苦”,他的确是思念自己的母亲,硬要说因为得不到反而恨起来还能像那么一回事,所以这个恨意与厌恶是对着他自己的。
母亲是他陷入力量泥潭原因之一吗?是的,但并非全部。同样,母亲那天是企图拯救他这个事件,能解决他沉迷力量这个问题吗?
在DMC5里面但丁曾用母亲到死之前都在寻找他,是想去救他来劝说Urizen,而但丁回忆过场中,母亲的确也是外出寻找维吉尔叫喊他的名字然后遭遇不测,从这个角度上来说,我们是否可以说,如果不是为了救维吉尔,母亲有可能活下来?那么,但丁说这句话不相当于在责备维吉尔害死母亲吗?
维吉尔因没能保护母亲长久痛苦,自我责备自我厌恶自我憎恨,知道母亲居然为了救他而死,是自己害死母亲,那这句话只会让他更加难受更加自责,更加憎恨自己的无能为力。
所以,很可惜并不能。
但维吉尔是爱着自己母亲的,通过DMC5SE对话我们可以得知,维吉尔还害怕自己母亲生气。
那既然是这样,维吉尔因为知道母亲临死之前心愿就是他能够活下去,能够得救虽然并不能让维吉尔放弃力量,但至少能有一点安慰,当然是建立完整的维吉尔而不是Urizen之上。
那么,维吉尔是否是一个不自爱的人?
作为如同半身一样存在的但丁,也对痴迷力量的维吉尔充满了厌恶。
而但丁与维吉尔作为恶魔是必须合起来才算完整,在DMC3游戏阿卡姆台词可以得知。
他们身为半人半魔也意味着,他们的人的部分也是对半开的,他们终其一生必然互相追逐着对方才能使自己人性得以完整,而不是处于残缺的状态。
First of all, the necklace was not given to him by his father, but instead belonged to his mother as a relic.
It represents his mother's love for him, not his father's love for him. The necklace is more something that belongs to him, something unique. His mother's love for him is also, something that should not be taken away from him. Here, then, the necklace should represent the love of his parents, the love of his mother for him. And not the power. Through love Mundus had allowed the nelo Angel to accept full control, thus enabling his own demonic power to corrupt Vergil. It is not without benefit that having can be a serious injury to more than just self-esteem as a nelo Angel. As a Black Angel he is indeed safe and sheltered.
The deprivation of thought brings with it a state of being free from stress and heavy tampering, but it is true that it is a doll that pulls the strings. His pride was totally incapable of accepting such a disgrace. Vergil naturally hates and loathes his own human (emotional) cowardice, which is followed by the defeat of his fated rival, Dante.
Dante is not only his brother, but also a formidable rival for the role of "Son of Sparta"; they are twins, both having inherited a part of their father.
In the DMC1 overworld, we all know from the lines that the Devil sees Dante as a Spartan.
Beowulf in DMC3 also outright shouts that Dante is that trash Spartan.
Vergil, then, as the Black Angel, is in fact as defeated by Sparta.
Instead of reaching his desire to surpass his father, he is once again ravaged by demonic forces, the last time even from his revered father's spokesman who is also his fated rival, Dante, and that amounts to his father denying him.
We all know that Vergil admires power, even worships it, as evidenced by his desperate attempts to gain Spartan power in DMC3 and his final battle with Dante in M20: "I need more power." It's obvious.
At the same time, we know from Dante that Vergil is in awe of his father, and this is mentioned earlier in the official publication.
There are generally various reasons that cause people to worship something, but let us not talk about the others here, but rather about the most primitive one. In some television history programmes or within traditional mythology, we can see that the gods worshipped by the ancient people were not the kind of gods that fulfilled human wishes, such as the dragon god, which in some places is the legend that sacrifices had to be arranged regularly every year to be performed, and that if they were not performed then the dragon god would become angry and drown the whole village.
Those who worshipped the dragon god were not thankful that the dragon god had blessed them, but were afraid of his punishment, the fear of being destroyed, and
The people performed rituals for the dragon god to ensure that they were safe. There is, of course, another form of ritual, the act of 'sunning the dragon king', which proves that one has gained more power than the dragon god and psychologically ensures one's safety.
But in either case, the villagers had already suffered a serious disaster, and the fears were deeply rooted in their minds.
Vergil has been ravaged by demonic power so many times that his inner fear of it rightly peaked after DMC1, along with his worship.
But it is also undeniable that demonic power does bring him security to some degree, but it is a security that keeps leaking.
Even when he later took up this thing that hurt him as a weapon, it did not fully rid him of the immense trauma the demonic power had caused him.
The environment in which he lived also did not provide him with a sense of peace, resulting in him also losing the opportunity to reconnect with himself and examine.
So let's talk about something else, his feelings about his mother.
Vergil had many negative thoughts about human nature, even thoughts that Vergil found shameful, as we know.
That he would feel grief over the memory of his mother rather than the comfort of being loved is known from V's conversation with Gryphon inside the game in DMC5.
In his DMC3 profile, he has a similar nostalgia for his human mother, but one that makes him feel human again and evokes a disgust for his own existence. The nostalgia is a feeling of sadness that can never be returned to and cannot be possessed, but is also a feeling of deep sadness, and even more so when he remembers the tragedy of that day, when his own incompetence as a human being led to his mother's death and even to the shameful thought of his desire to be saved, which leads to an uncontrollable hatred.
Whenever Vergil remembers his own mother or, as in VoV, the look of disgust on his mother's face when he sees her picture when V goes to Dante's office, he shows that he cannot control his disgust.
If he simply hated his mother and hated him for abandoning him, he would not have had nostalgic feelings for her, after all, normally we don't hang on to things we hate or even think about things we hate all the time, and V is lying when he crosses the line with Gryphon: "It would be a lie to say I don't want to. But the past ...... has been painful for me", he does miss his mother, and to say that he hates it instead because he can't have it is still something like that, so this hatred and disgust is directed at himself.
Was his mother one of the reasons he was in the mire of power? Yes, but not all. Again, can the event that his mother was attempting to save him that day solve the problem of his addiction to power?
In DMC5 Dante had persuaded Urizen by saying that his mother was looking for him until her death and was trying to save him, and Dante recalls scenes where his mother did go out looking for Vergil calling out his name and then met an untimely end, so in that sense, can we say that it is possible that his mother could have survived if she had not been trying to save Vergil? Wouldn't Dante's statement then be tantamount to blaming Vergil for his mother's death?
Vergil's long suffering, self-blame, self-loathing and self-hatred for not being able to protect his mother, and knowing that she actually died to save him, that it was his own fault that she died, would only make him feel even worse and blame himself even more, and hate himself even more for his inability to do anything about it.
So, sadly it doesn't.
But Vergil loves his mother, and as we learn through the DMC5SE dialogue, Vergil is still afraid of his mother's anger.
So if that's the case, Vergil's wish was that he would live because he knew his mother was dying, and being saved doesn't make Vergil give up his powers, but it's at least a little comforting, based on the full Vergil and not Urizen, of course.
Is Vergil, then, a man who does not love himself?
Dante, who exists as if he were a half-body, is also disgusted by the power-obsessed Vergil.
And Dante and Vergil as demons are the ones who must be combined to be complete, as can be learned in the DMC3 game Arkham Lines.
The fact that they are half-human and half-demon also means that the human part of them is also split in half, and they must chase each other throughout their lives in order to make their humanity whole, rather than being in a state of disfigurement.
我们先来说一下作为维吉尔的恶。
Let's start with the evil of being a Vergil.
名字是一个恶魔的本质,这一点在DMC3漫画被提及。
The name is the essence of a demon, which is mentioned in the DMC3 comic.
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不得不说再次提的是维吉尔这个名字,在神曲中是理性代表。
理性的恶魔到底是一种怎么样的恶魔?
或者说极度理性的人是怎样的人。为什么维吉尔表现的是兽性。
极度理性的人。本身就是极度自私的人。理性主义本身就会诞生功利主义,结果是一切行为目的。这种催生之下,人命就是一个数字,或多或少。
那将会缺乏对他者的同理心与同情心。大脑就像机械一切精准衡量一切的利弊,好谋求利益的最大化。但这种需要吗?也是需要的。但对于人而言,看见便是兽性。
没有道理没有感情可以谈,杀一百人能救人,那就杀,杀一万人能救人,一样杀;就像我们生死居然靠抽签来决定,不管你是贫穷还是富有,是公平了但也是残忍的,是一种如同天灾一样可怕的野兽。
维吉尔他不以拯救人类生命为行动驱动力,而是如同天灾一样,是今天台风就要过来,这场暴雨今天就要下,他是不关心你家里头衣服没收呢,要等收完再下。
这也是维吉尔作为Urizen时候表现出现的属性。一个天灾一样的野兽。
他觉得力量不够就去找力量,就像野兽饿了就去找吃一样自然,而不存在这是人不能吃这个问题,毕竟恶魔本身就存在有吃人的恶魔的这个分支,人类也不会指责一个本身吃人的东西骂他怎么可以吃人呢。
通常情况下人将对自身有益的行为定义为善,对自身有害的行为定义为恶。
但人类的定义善恶只能适用在人类的价值观上与人类自身,而非全部适用在其他生命上,野兽袭击人类与他是否恶毫无关系,你不能判决一个树正常生长对人类存在善恶问题,你也不能指责你家猫咬你不跟你玩跟恶有关系,也没办法说一只老虎袭击人,就是因为他邪恶。
但尤立增他对虐杀人类与玩弄人类,征服世界毫无兴趣,他并不享受这种东西,他行为对于人的世界是自私的,所以人可以称他为恶,但他的行为并非针对折磨人类进行享受。
因为通过杀戮获得快乐,这需要建立有一定知性的生物上,动物的杀戮是基于本能狩猎行为。
而通过杀戮获得快乐则是通过残害生命来愉悦自我。所以享受虐杀与玩弄这种行为,是危险的。这不是一头野兽为了生存或者本能对你的袭击,而是一种针对人类与拥有知性动物的扭曲行为。这是非常原始的疯狂的欲望。
动物狩猎是生存需求,恶魔社会作为丛林社会,遵守野兽本能又仿佛就是天然的正确。
但通过虐杀去享受快感是完全两种产物。现代有很多满足这种需求的游戏,但他们依旧不会做到真的跟现实一模一样。
It has to be mentioned once again that the nameVergil, in the Divine Comedy, is the representative of reason. What kind of demon is a demon of reason? Or what is it like to be extremely rational. WhyVergil is shown to be bestial.
The extremely rational man. Inherently extremely selfish people. Rationalism in itself gives birth to utilitarianism, with the result that all acts aim. Under this kind of doctrine, human life is a number, where numbers are nothing more than addition and subtraction.
By treating human life in this way, there will eventually be a lack of empathy and compassion for the Other. The brain is like a machine that precisely weighs the pros and cons of everything in order to maximise the benefits. But is this necessary? It is needed too. But for man, seeing is the nature of the beast.
There is no reasoning or emotion to talk about; if killing a hundred people saves lives, then kill them, if killing ten thousand saves lives, kill them all the same; just as it is fair that we live and die by lot, whether you are poor or rich, but it is also cruel, a beast as terrible as a natural disaster.
This is the same attribute thatVergil showed when he was Urizen, like a beast of preternatural calamity.
It is as natural for him to seek power when he feels it is not enough as it is for a beast to seek food when it is hungry, and there is no question of this being something that a human cannot eat; after all, demons themselves exist in this branch of demons that eat humans, and humans do not accuse something that is itself a cannibal of scolding how he can eat humans.
Normally humans define good as good and evil as harmful to themselves.
But the human definition of good and evil can only be applied to human values and to human beings themselves, not to all other beings. A beast attacking a human being has nothing to do with whether it is evil or not, nor can you accuse your cat of being evil for biting you and not playing with you, nor can you say that a tiger attacks a human being because he is evil incarnate.
But Urizen he has no interest in torturing humans and playing with them and conquering the world, he does not care for or enjoy the pleasures that come from such things, he acts selfishly towards the world of man, so one can call him evil, but his actions are not directed towards torturing humans for enjoyment.
For to gain pleasure by killing requires the establishment of creatures with a certain amount of sentience; the killing of animals is based on the instinctive act of hunting.
Pleasure through killing, on the other hand, is the pleasure of the self through the mutilation of life. So enjoying the act of sadism and playfulness is dangerous. It is not a beast attacking you for survival or instinct, but a twisted act against human beings and animals with sentience. It is a very primitive and insane desire.
It is a twisted desire to satisfy your own enjoyment of being powerful by crushing, abusing, playing with, and playing with creatures weaker than yourself.
Rationally the same as the abuse of dogs and cats, etc.
Animals hunt as a need for survival, and demon society, as a jungle society, abides by beastly instincts again as if it were the natural right behaviour.
But the enjoyment of pleasure through sadism is a product of two entirely different things. There are many modern games that satisfy this need, but they still don't really do it exactly like reality.
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可以看到DMC3漫画里面维吉尔遭遇恶魔,在谈论快感这个东西。
图上所有词汇,都指向了这个恶魔,享受是杀戮、痛苦、虐待这些东西,这是非常可怕而且危险的恶魔,这个恶魔拥有知性并享受这种扭曲东西,并不是一个目标单纯的野兽。
维吉尔能够享受战斗,但他无法享受杀戮、折磨这些东西带来的快感,他对战斗享受是对于目标靠近与强大对手战斗的喜悦。而关于杀戮给予他通常都是痛苦的回忆,因为杀戮会流血,而他极端厌恶受伤带来的回忆。
蒙杜斯为什么又是最大的邪恶?因为蒙杜斯享受并渴望控制人类,将人类视为玩偶。
并折磨与虐待中获得满足感与成就感。
他的行为完全针对人类来进行的,因为人类会惨叫会痛苦会难受会哀嚎,但你虐待树木、虐待动物也带不了这种。
我想我们在玩DMC这个游戏时候,享受是爽快的战斗、自己就像人物一样无敌、强大;而不是享受击倒敌人之后它们所发出来的痛苦惨叫声,并感受到身心愉悦。
维吉尔自切也并非针对折磨人类。
针对自身的人性部分跟想要与弟弟一决胜负与渴望毁灭、折磨人类是两回事。
是自切掉人性之后,他的恶魔面不受人性控制的原始行为给人类世界带来了毁灭性。
一个是跟随本能去追求力量的野兽,一个是让你求生不得求死不能的并热衷折磨你的真正恶魔。
我们可以VoV与DMC5过场动画可以看出来,维吉尔最初的目的就是,将恶魔部分切出去然后去与但丁一决胜负。但Urizen偏偏没有马上去找但丁,甚至在那边与恶魔争果子,几乎对力量以外东西完全不感兴趣,Urizen就坐在那里等待果子成熟,让我们有一种错觉Urizen如果不是因为但丁找上门,它可以在那里坐到天荒地老,甚至说出斯巴达之刃已经没有用的台词,所有行为都不是等待已久的对手总于来,我要击败你;而是对手排在力量后面。
但维吉尔回来的目的就是为了但丁,这变成本末倒置。
当时维吉尔当时情绪并不是稳定的(DMC5结局之前),他情感非常丰富,而这样感情丰富的他,在遭遇DMC3又到DMC1各种打击与折磨,又偏偏拿回来了掌握人类与魔界之间钥匙的阎魔刀,并再次为之孤注一掷。如果这刀仅仅只能将人与魔分开那姑且尚好,他也仅仅只想与自己弟弟再战一次,但这把刀是人类与魔界之间的钥匙,那么本来只是一个简单的愿望就变成巨大的麻烦与灾难。
就同如果你给孩子一个核弹按钮,他按下那一刻真的可能仅仅是因为好玩。
同样你永远无法知道一个情绪失控的人能够做出多么疯狂的事情。
当然,我不是在洗白什么,门就是Urizen打开的,Urizen是维吉尔做出的选择才会出现的。
维吉尔最大恶就是他的自私,他为了自己目的而行动,但他的行为其实没有顾忌跟考虑周围无辜的人类,他像恶魔一样自私自利行动,而不顾及他人。
用日常刑事案件常见的疑问来表达就是:怎么可以为了钱杀人呢?怎么可以为了利益杀人呢?怎么可以为了感情就杀人呢?怎么可以为了点东西就发动战争呢?怎么可以为了利益就破坏环境呢?怎么可以为了利益就提价呢?
但如果自私是一种罪,那恐怕全人类难逃一死吧。
同样拥有如此丰富感情的人,已经不能成为一个单纯的恶魔了,而维吉尔行为又更像恶魔。
这仿佛让他变得的异常矛盾:最像人的恶魔和最像恶魔的人。
当然如果参考对象是人类的历史,这好像也并不矛盾,在战争中,人是恶魔亦是人。
在战争中参与厮杀的人其实也在残杀同类,可以称为恶魔一样的行为,只为自己立场上的利益就对同类痛下杀手;那些战场上的人不论敌我,他们都是有父母的活生生人活生生的生命。
甚至在二战时期,兄弟姐妹在战争上互相残杀也不过家常便饭。
但这里并不是说杀戮这种行为是正确的,而是想要说这不正确,但人类的历史往往就是如此一再重复。
关心别人拯救世界是人类,为了利益对自己同类痛下杀手,甚至为了享乐对某种动物进行过种族灭绝行为也是人类。人是复杂的,是神与魔的混合体,成神成魔都在人的一念之间。
You can see the DMC3 comic where Vergil encounters the demon and talks about the pleasure thing.
All the words on the picture, point to this demon, enjoyment is killing, pain, abuse and these things, this is very scary and dangerous demon, this demon has sentience and enjoys such twisted things, not a beast with a simple goal.
Vergil can enjoy fighting, but he cannot enjoy the pleasure of killing or torturing, his enjoyment of fighting is the joy of being close to his goal and fighting a powerful opponent. And about killing gives him usually painful memories, because killing bleeds, and he has an extreme aversion to the memories that come with being wounded.
Why is Mundus again the greatest of evils? Because Mundus enjoys and desires to control human beings, to see them as dolls.
He enjoys and desires to control humans, to see them as dolls, and to gain satisfaction and fulfilment from torturing and abusing them.
His actions are directed entirely at humans because humans scream and suffer and wail, but you can't bring that from abusing trees or animals.
I think what we enjoy when we play DMC is the pleasure of fighting and being as invincible and powerful as the characters; not the physical and mental pleasure of the painful screams they make after knocking down an enemy.
Nor is Vergil's self-cutting aimed at torturing humans.
The desire to fight his brother and the desire to destroy and torture humans are two different things.
It is the primal behaviour of his demonic side, uncontrolled by his humanity, that has devastated the human world since he cut himself off.
One is a beast that follows its instincts in the pursuit of power, the other is a true demon that leaves you begging for life and death and is keen to torment you.
As we can see from the VoV and DMC5 overworld animations, Vergil's initial aim is to cut out the demon part and then go for a fight with Dante. But instead of going to Dante right away and even fighting the demon over there for the fruit, almost completely uninterested in anything other than power, Urizen just sits there waiting for the fruit to ripen, giving us the illusion that Urizen could sit there until the end of time if it wasn't for Dante coming to the door, even uttering the line that the Spartan blade is no longer useful, all actions that are not waiting The long-awaited adversary always comes, and I will defeat you; rather, the adversary ranks behind the power.
But Vergil's return for the purpose of Dante becomes putting the cart before the horse.
Vergil was not emotionally stable at the time (before the end of DMC5), he was very emotional, and this emotional man, after all the blows and torments of DMC3 and then DMC1, came back with the Yama sword, which holds the key between the human and the demon worlds, and again threw himself at it. If the sword could only separate humans from demons, that would be fine, and he would only want to fight his brother once more, but this sword is the key between humans and demons, so what was a simple wish becomes a huge problem and disaster.
Just as if you give a child a nuclear bomb button, he may really push it just for the fun of it.
In the same way you can never know how crazy an emotionally disturbed person can be.
Of course, I'm not washing my hands of anything, the door was opened by Urizen, and Urizen came into existence because of the choices Vergil made.
Vergil's greatest evil is his selfishness, he acts for his own ends, but his actions are not really scrupulous or considerate of the innocent humans around him, he acts like a demon selfishly and without regard for others.
He acted like a demon, selfishly and without regard for others. The common question in everyday criminal cases is: How can one kill for money? How can one kill for profit? How can one kill for the sake of feelings? How can you start a war over something? How can you destroy the environment for the sake of profit? How can you raise prices for the sake of profit?
But if selfishness is a sin, then I am afraid that all mankind will not escape death.
The same man who has such a wealth of emotion can no longer be a mere demon, and Vergil acts more like one.
It is as if this makes him an extraordinary contradiction: the most human-like of demons and the most demon-like of men.
Of course, if the reference is to the history of mankind, this does not seem to be a contradiction, for in war, man is both a demon and a man.
Those who fight in war actually kill their own kind, in what might be called demonic acts, killing them for the sake of their own position; those who fight on the battlefield, whether they are enemies or not, are living, breathing human beings with parents.
Even in the Second World War, it was not uncommon for brothers and sisters to kill each other in war.
But this is not to say that the act of killing is right, it is to say that it is not right, but this is how human history tends to repeat itself over and over again.
It is human to care for others to save the world, it is human to kill one's own kind for profit, and it is human to commit genocide against an animal for pleasure. Man is complex, a mixture of god and devil, and it is up to him to become a god or a devil.
关于Urizen的象征。
About the symbol of Urizen.
A Poison Tree
I was angry with my friend:
I told my wrath, my wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe:
I told it not, my wrath did grow.
And I watered it in fears,
Night and morning with my tears;
And I sunned it with smiles,
And with soft deceitful wiles.
And it grew both day and night,
Till it bore an apple bright.
And my foe beheld it shine.
And he knew that it was mine,
And into my garden stole
When the night had veiled the pole;
In the morning glad I see
My foe outstretched beneath the tree.
与友人心存气恼
我一吐为快, 怒火随之熄灭
对敌人怀揣愤懑
我一言不发, 恼怒却生根发芽
从此, 不分昼夜
忧惧中我用泪水浇灌它
我的笑容和狡黠
是它明媚的阳光
它日夜不停茁壮成长
直到结出一颗鲜艳的苹果
我的敌人眼见它亮丽四射
明知它的主人就是我
但他却在夜幕笼罩下
偷偷地潜入我的花园
清晨, 看到敌人挺直地倒在树下
我心中暗喜
这是一首描述了谋杀的诗歌,也是DMC5开场时候展示诗歌。
他表达的是人对感情不忠诚,一种虚伪的善良。对朋友愤怒表达了,愤怒就结束了。但他对敌人仇恨却不表示,愤怒便在内心种下种子,这棵树本身就是感觉具象化。
首先对于布莱克神话体系中,作为理性代表的Urizen控制人们,绑架人们,一个以自我为中心父亲的角色作为庭院主人,这首诗歌参考的是圣经中人类偷食禁果的那一章。
Urizen在DMC5这个故事中,在维吉尔的故事里面,是一个怎样的角色呢?
我们可以在Urizen的一个设计稿中,得到一个非常直白的设计思路。
This is a poem that describes murder and is also the poem displayed at the opening of DMC5.
He expresses the unfaithfulness of man to his feelings, a kind of hypocritical kindness. Anger towards a friend is expressed, and the anger ends. But his hatred for his enemies is not expressed, and anger is then planted within, the tree itself being the feeling embodied.
Firstly for the Blakean mythological system of Urizen as a representative of reason controlling people and kidnapping them, a self-centred father figure as master of the courtyard, the poem references the biblical chapter in which man steals the forbidden fruit.
What is Urizen's role in the story of DMC5, within the story of Vergil?
We can get a very straightforward design idea in one of Urizen's design drafts.
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黑天使在一代就是作为父亲的象征。
这个设计稿是直接写上斯巴达与黑天使。是的,对于维吉尔而言。恶魔是父亲,父亲又是恶魔力量的代表。Urizen也称呼自己为没有名字,只是力量。
同样斯巴达作为神明被崇拜。恶魔视斯巴达为叛徒,人类不可能接纳恶魔,却又视斯巴达为救世主,认为拯救他们是理所当然的事。斯巴达不止是恶魔,更是一种身份的称呼。
回到这首诗歌上,这个庭院是属于上帝的,这个果树也是上帝种下的。这里上帝是Urizen。
那么故事里面的上帝是吗?
Urizen在游戏里面有一个称号【魔界的反逆王】英文给翻译是uprising,中文可以翻译为暴动、起义,在客观层面上来说,Urizen的确引发变革,取代了蒙杜斯的魔界地位,并拿走本来属于蒙杜斯的果子吧,某个意义上来说是新铁序的来临。
The nleo Angel was in the generation as a symbol of the father.
This design is written directly on the Spartan with the Black Angel. Yes, for Vergil. The demon is the father, who in turn is the representative of demonic power. urizen also calls himself no name, just power.
Likewise Sparta is worshipped as a god. The demons see Sparta as a traitor, and it is impossible for humans to accept demons, yet they see Sparta as a saviour and take it for granted that they will be saved. Sparta is more than a demon, it is a designation of identity.
Returning to this verse, this courtyard belongs to God, and this fruit tree was planted by God. Here God is Urizen.
So is God inside the story?
Urizen has a title in the game [Rebel King of the Demon Realm], which in English translates as uprising, which in Chinese can be translated as rioting, uprising. On an objective level, Urizen does trigger a change, replacing Mundus in the Demon Realm and taking away the fruit that belonged to Mundus, in a sense the coming of a new iron order.
We can check the documentation that the tree exists in its own right and is present in the magical realm, bearing fruit once every two thousand years.
我们可以查询到文档里面,这棵树是本身就存在的,而且存在在魔界的,两千年结果一次。
We can check inside the document that the tree exists in itself and exists in the magical realm, with results once every two thousand years.
但这棵树是由人血来灌溉而来。
那么整个诗歌让故事的人与魔微妙了起来,这个庭院应该是属于恶魔,但灌溉这个树的是人。
我们回到故事中,分裂的状态的维吉尔,V对Urizen的态度。
V对Urizen态度非常明显,他对Urizen的行为极度厌恶,但他喜欢Urizen,他喜欢只是Urizen强大力量的欣赏。维吉尔在故事里面没有明确或者非常直接的情绪表达他对恶魔是否抱有极度的憎恨或者厌恶情绪。即使在DMC3漫画里面,阿卡姆与他第一次相遇所说那段对话也与此无关,也存在因为恶魔力量而被吸引所陶醉的人。
V的敌人是Urizen,他的敌人的确吃下那颗果子并最终战败倒于树下,而他为之欣喜。
这个有毒的果子,代表的是V自己的怨恨,与自己因为恶魔而流血所受到伤害所产生厌恶,最终滋养结成的果实。而Urizen极具象征意义的代表性,也表达维吉尔对于父亲另一种态度。产生这样的心情是他一直压抑已久,对自己受到伤害闭口不谈的缘故,愤怒日积月累的存在。
那么我们也是不是可以说,维吉尔对于父亲的爱,是一种对幻影和空想的爱呢?
在很多衍生产品甚至DMC3里面但丁都用父亲来规劝维吉尔,像:斯巴达也如何如何吧,所以……
但维吉尔最终行动完全不按照所谓的斯巴达如何来的。
而但丁依旧要认为维吉尔沉迷父亲,不过这在这里并不重要。
所以,我想也可以那么说的。
V从不喜欢恶魔,他说他喜欢,他的喜欢是对力量的垂爱,是对力量的功利性。
But the tree is irrigated by human blood.
The whole poem then makes the story subtle between man and demon; this courtyard is supposed to belong to the demon, but it is man who irrigates this tree.
We return to the story, the divided state of Vergil, to V's attitude towards Urizen.
V's attitude towards Urizen is very clear, he is extremely disgusted by Urizen's behaviour, but he likes Urizen, he likes just the appreciation of Urizen's great power. Vergil has no clear or very direct emotion within the story to express whether he holds extreme hatred or disgust for the demon. Even within the DMC3 comic, the conversation that Arkham speaks of in his first encounter has nothing to do with this, and there exists people who are intoxicated by the attraction because of the demon's power.
V's enemy is Urizen, and his enemy does eat the fruit and eventually falls under the tree in defeat, and he rejoices in it.
This poisonous fruit is the fruit of V's own resentment and disgust at the harm he has suffered as a result of the demon's bloodshed, which eventually nourishes the fruit. The symbolic representation of Urizen is another expression of Vergil's attitude towards his father. It is the result of a long repression of his feelings, of his silence about the harm he has suffered, of the anger that has been building up over time.
So can we also say that Virgil's love for his father is a love for phantoms and empty dreams?
In many spin-offs and even in DMC3 Dante uses his father to admonish Vergil, like: how about Spartan too, so ......
But Virgil ends up acting not at all according to the so-called Spartan how-to.
And Dante still has to think that Vergil is obsessed with his father, but that doesn't matter here.
So, I guess it could be said that way.
V never liked demons, he said he did, and his liking was a droopy love of power, a utilitarian love of power.
现在让我们看Urizen对V的态度。
V角度看待Urizen大体上已经知道了。
那么Urizen怎么看待V的呢?对他而言是再明显不过的讨厌。
这是一个导致他虚弱而不是让能够完善自己的存在,是他蔑视属于自己的软弱部分。
Urizen不会受到感情的困惑,因为这些东西他根本不需要,自然也就没有。在DMC5中Urizen台词:“我对这个地方没有记忆。这只是果实制造出来的幻象。”
而在DMC3,但丁曾对维吉尔说过这样的台词:“我没有父亲。”同样也意味着,我不需要父亲,他明明是有父亲的,但是他在这里表现出否认的态度。
我们多多少少应该都有过忘记的经历,像忘了带笔忘了带书出门等等,当我们发现自己忘记的时候恰好就是我们发现我们需要这个东西,而自己却没有的那一刻,心情必然是懊恼中存在着懊悔的感情。
所如果我们记得那就是我们所需要的东西,如果我们不记得那就是意味着他不需要存在,不记得的东西自然不感兴趣。
所以Urizen说的不记得,不但表达他没有这方面的记忆,也包含了不需要的意思。就像V还残留魔力一样,Urizen也是存在记忆的,但这些是属于身体记忆,与作为人性(V)意义是完全不同的。
可以说,Urizen某个程度是理想中有几率战胜自己弟弟的自己,拥有强大身躯不再被人性(记忆、感情、道德)所束缚着,纯正的毫无感情的野兽一样的恶魔。
Let us now look at Urizen's attitude towards V.
The V perspective on Urizen is largely known.
So what does Urizen think of V? It could not be more obvious to him that he hates it.
It is a being that causes him to be weak rather than allowing for the ability to perfect himself, a weak part that he scorns as belonging to himself.
Urizen is not confused by feelings because they are things he simply does not need and naturally does not have. Urizen's lines in DMC5: "I have no memory of this place. It's just an illusion created by the fruit."
And in DMC3, Dante had said the line to Virgil, "I have no father." The same implies that I don't need a father, which he clearly has, but he's showing denial here.
We have all forgotten at one time or another, forgotten pens, forgotten books, etc., and the moment we find ourselves forgetting is the moment we realise that we need the thing and we don't have it, and the feeling of remorse is inevitably present in the form of anguish.
So if we remember it is what we need, if we don't remember it means that it doesn't need to exist, and what we don't remember is naturally of no interest.
So when Urizen says he does not remember, he not only expresses that he has no memory of it, but also contains the idea that it is not needed. Just as V still has residual magical powers, Urizen also has memories, but these are physical memories, which are quite different from the meaning of being human (V).
It could be said that Urizen is, to some extent, the ideal self that has the chance of defeating his brother, a demon with a powerful body no longer bound by humanity (memories, feelings, morals), a pure, emotionless beast.
那么我们现在可以提出一个问题,维吉尔是否是一个不自爱的人?
So we can now ask the question, is Vergil an unself-loving person?
V与Urizen互相厌恶,证明作为本体的维吉尔是完全不自爱,是自我憎恨的自我厌恶的。
Urizen作为恶魔力量与父亲的象征,厌恶着作为人类与孩子代表的V,同样V也厌恶象征父亲与恶魔力量Urizen的行为,两者是如此极端又如此撕裂。
而官方漫画中会直接告诉你,V代表的其实是维吉尔的心,Urizen则是力量。
结合到故事里面情况,V并不会像正常人类那样死亡,而是变成灰一样的情况,他是维吉尔人性/心,而人类的人性是人的情感、记忆、思想的混合体。而人性是需要肉体作为载体的,这个载体,换而言之就是Urizen是维吉尔的肉体,肉体与心灵处于分裂状态,虽然精神已经离开,而肉体还在苟活着。
维吉尔(V)从来没有表达过对恶魔的憎恨,但维吉尔表达过对自己弟弟的愤怒。
在表面上,维吉尔要战胜的对象是但丁,但维吉尔还有一个内心最深处从没表达过敌人,则是Urizen。Urizen与V之间战斗是与自我厌恶做斗争,最终融合也是对自我的和解。
但同样Urizen跟V无法完全单独代表作为整体的维吉尔。
Urizen的行为有些是维吉尔绝对不会做的,V有些想法也是维吉尔绝对不会透露的。
维吉尔虽然喜欢力量,但不是所有力量都可以接受,他也会挑嘴来,我们可否还记得DMC4维吉尔过场中的一句台词:“他们将恶魔视为神明?……嗯,我不能说他们误入歧途,但他们很快就会见识到这份恶魔力量,这份强大到他们无法想象,这份斯巴达之子的力量。”
而V有着维吉尔自己都在否定的情绪与懦弱的想法,这是他不想被人知道。
如果只在乎Urizen是维吉尔,则不在乎V作为维吉尔内心感想、情绪、痛苦、悔恨等等,如果只在意V的话,那么就忽视了Urizen的行为对人类而言的错误性。
Urizen作为维吉尔一个组成部分,体现的也正是维吉尔性格中傲慢与叛逆那一部分,或者说Urizen最像维吉尔的地方让人感觉到他就是维吉尔不完全的本身,除了力量沉迷之外,就是M17兄弟之战时候,他才表现好像残留那么一点点的人性像是维吉尔的样子,让人觉得他好像有记忆他都记的。但我们也必须清晰的认识到,维吉尔的行为对于人类而言是不对的,是不可取的。
无论漫画、小说、还是游戏内,没有任何一点对于维吉尔行为给人带来的伤害是处于肯定的,肯定过是维吉尔的不屈的精神而不是行为。
人一旦无法自爱,前往极端那就是自我伤害,而一个无法自爱的人是无法去爱其他人的,更不会是顾忌其他人。
The fact that V and Urizen loathe each other proves that Vergil as an essence is totally unloving and self-hating self-loathing.
Urizen, as the symbol of demonic power and fatherhood, loathes V as the representative of humanity and children, and likewise V loathes the actions of Urizen, the symbol of fatherhood and demonic power, both so extreme and so torn.
The official manga will tell you straight away that V actually represents Vergil's heart and Urizen is the power.
Combined with the situation inside the story, V doesn't die like a normal human, but turns into an ash-like situation; he is Vergil's humanity/heart, and human humanity is a mixture of human emotions, memories, and thoughts. And human nature requires a physical body as a vehicle, and this vehicle, in other words Urizen, is Vergil's physical body, which is in a split state from the mind, although the spirit has left while the physical body is still lingering.
Vergil (V) never expresses his hatred of demons, but Vergil expresses his anger at his brother.
On the surface, Vergil's defeat is against Dante, but Vergil also has an enemy he has never expressed in his innermost being, Urizen, whose battle with V is a struggle against self-loathing, and whose ultimate fusion is a reconciliation of the self.
But again, Urizen and V cannot fully represent Vergil as a whole on their own.
Urizen acts in ways that Vergil would never do, and V thinks in ways that Vergil would never reveal.
Vergil likes power but not all power is acceptable and he picks his words, can we remember a line from the DMC4 Vergil over scene: "They see demons as gods? ...... Well, I can't say they're misguided, but they'll soon see this demonic power, this power so strong they can't imagine it, this power of the sons of Sparta."
And V has emotions and cowardly thoughts that Vergil himself is in denial about, which he doesn't want to be known for.
If one cares only that Urizen is Vergil, one does not care about V's inner feelings, emotions, pain, remorse, etc., as Vergil, and if one cares only about V's words, then one ignores the wrongness of Urizen's actions as far as humanity is concerned.
Urizen, as an integral part of Vergil, embodies that part of Vergil's character that is arrogant and rebellious, or rather the part of Urizen that is most like Vergil feels like he is Vergil in his incomplete self, except for his power obsession, and it is only during the battle of the M17 brothers that he acts as if a little bit of his humanity remains like Vergil, making it seem as if he has memories that he remembers. But we must also clearly understand that Vergil's behaviour is wrong and undesirable for humanity.
At no point in the comic, the novel, or within the game is there any affirmation of the harm Vergil's actions have caused to people; it is Vergil's unyielding spirit that is affirmed rather than his actions.
Once a person is incapable of self-love, going to the extreme is self-harm, and a person who is incapable of self-love is incapable of loving others, much less caring for them.
而关于维吉尔为什么还在做当年的事情?
And about why Vergil is still doing what he did back then?
在DMC3的设定图有一行关于维吉尔结局的解说:维吉尔的故事的开始。
是的,这个人的故事才开始。
那之后他的遭遇到dmc5开场之前其实就是:被打败、被洗脑、被折磨、带着残破身体不知道怎么活下来。那么在这种状态的人,是不可能突然觉醒出现:啊!我应该保护人类!
就像你现在得病非常痛苦,你一般也不会突然想都怪没我做善事,而是更多会想,这个医药费怎么那么贵。当然如果你有宗教信仰,那属于非一般情况了。
要是有个人在旁边叽叽哇哇又不帮忙,平时说你都不听吃吃吃,你看你现在可好了。那大几率你出现不会是,痛哭流涕我错了,而是知道我错了但你好烦。有些情况你会越想越生气。
当然我个人认为维吉尔还是占反派的优势,因为反派可以表现比主角的行为不正确,但情感更加丰富而多样,可以堕落、可以颓废、可以不正确更多呈现人性的复杂。
主角毕竟还是承担故事里面超人这个义务的。
In the DMC3 setting art there is a line of commentary about Vergil's ending: the beginning of Vergil's story.
Yes, the man's story has only just begun.
What happens to him after that up until the opening of DMC5 is actually: defeated, brainwashed, tortured, and left with a broken body with no idea how he survived. It is impossible then for someone in that state to suddenly awaken and appear, "Ah! I should protect humanity!" Such a consciousness would not have been possible.
Dante's lines with Vergil before DMC5 do not mention anything about protecting humans in order to become strong or protecting important things in order to become strong, and the lines in DMC3 say that he believes in inheriting the spirit of Sparta, but there is no complete statement of what this spirit is, so this spirit has been speculated to be about protecting humans, protecting the weak and protecting important things.
Of course I personally think that Vergil still has the advantage of the villain, because the villain can behave incorrectly than the protagonist, but with more rich and varied emotions, can be depraved, can be decadent and can incorrectly present more of the complexity of human nature.
The protagonist, after all, still takes on the obligation of being Superman within the story.
人追求像上帝一样完美,亦寻求像恶魔一样的堕落,这也是人心理需求的一种状态。
当上帝教条绑住人,使得人受着精神上的痛苦时,人反而会走向堕落而非继续升华自己。
Urizen是天堂也是地狱,V在天堂也在地狱,这是一个人体内两个情况,也是人复杂的表现。
爱恨,享乐与物欲,在真、善、美与假、恶、丑的比照中。
我们可以感受到,尘世生活中一切并非尽善尽美,与其对立面也不是具有天然的鸿沟。
人毕竟是再平凡不过的,具有七情六欲的生活者,是既伟大又渺小得可怜,任何微弱的自然界的风浪,抑或人们自我的争斗,都会使他们自己有限的知识、体力难以承受这些考验,更不用说道德、情感、以及理想的沦落了。当然,物欲亦是人类自身最经不起时间和意志考验的脆弱之点了。
从人类自身而言,缺陷是无时无刻存在的。
但就另一方面来说,如果没有以上种种矛盾的对比现实生活也许就不是千姿百态,而变成索然寡味的一潭死水。那便是人人喊打的虚假乌托邦,人从根本失去了自由,成为一个个索然无味的复制品,同一个思想同一套模式,这样得多无聊啊。
这样毫无进步的社会迟早被遗弃。
同时,人自身及其缺陷也是在压力和苦难中得到某种磨砺和修补。当然这个前提,人必须审视自身,去认识自我。
故事中维吉尔通过剖开自我,从心(V)里面认识到自身的行为(Urizen)是怎么一番模样,在DMC5开场中一直认为自己是力量不足才导致悲剧的发生,从Urizen身上意识到这不是力量不够的问题。他在不断厌恶Urizen的行为中意识到自己的错误,随着剧情发展,死亡的逼近,在崩溃之下透露的真心话对他人的坦诚与对过去的释怀,也都走完一段自我完善的道路。
最终合体那一刻,他最终获得与自我和解的结局,他终于可以也学会爱自己,那个以丑陋面目追求力量抛弃一切的自己,也是自己的一部分。他从来不是一个好人,也不是一个什么在其他方面显得高尚的人,他真切渴望想要力量想要变强,他没有继承过这种东西也没去想继承什么斯巴达精神。那一天想去回家拯救自己父母与兄弟行为与想法,对于年幼孩子而言,这毫无疑问是拥有着高尚的人性光辉。但这也是他的人生,也渴望能够彻底战胜一次自己的兄弟,而不是去否定这一切,企图当成从没发生过也没有存在过,而是肯定这一切确实是存在,即使现实并不是那么美好。
即使这满地的鲜血中,也有想要去肯定是存在的事实,不会去否认这一切并非自己所为,也不会去逃避这一切与他无关的事物,无论人生是否拥有成就,他也确实存在着,在经历这一切之后依旧心怀对美好怀有希望。
V理解了U,U也渴望着V。他已经认识了自我,并从中审视了自我,从死亡中得到跃升,从诅咒中拯救了自己,并爱着自己。无论母亲的还是父亲的诅咒都无法再对他生效,他最终从童年的阴影中挣脱出来,重获新生。
毕竟他是要与弟弟再决斗一次才能从地狱回来,即使要砍树要关门,按顺序要排在与但丁决战之后的,他确实希望解决与但丁之间的那些问题,但我们也可以从DMC5过场中看到维吉尔复活之后的转变,比如他恢复本体之后对尼禄的道谢,在M20尼禄出现时他的态度变化。
那是一种比较尴尬情况,如果要打但丁我们则会发现,尼禄与他战斗,但丁会出面阻止尼禄战斗;如果但丁继续要与他战斗,那就进入尼禄会去与但丁战斗的可能。如果是以前的维吉尔,那应该会非常死脑筋坚持继续与但丁战斗,但m20维吉尔台词表现态度却是:既然都是要打败但丁,那尼禄代打也未尝不可。
当然在尼禄来之前,兄弟胜负是死亡还是存活,谁他不知道,但他接受死亡是一种结束,无论人生有没有意义、输或赢在死后一切将变得不再重要。
他思想从激烈自我斗争中归于和平,从迷途重新返回,肉体方面的堕落给予他精神上的进化。这也是互相分裂又统一的理论,与我们之前提到的阴影理论是一致的。
阴影、黑暗、另一个黑暗双胞胎、另一个我。这是生命力的源头,是创造力的源头,也是自我厌恶但又无法缺失那一部分。没有对立就没有进步,吸引与排斥,理性与力量,爱与恨是人类生存所必不可少的。
维吉尔他的旅途从来都是苦难,没有一丝值得观看的风景。但他清醒过来了,他救了自己并建造了天堂。你甚至可以看到DMC5结尾中出现的地狱与任何一作出现过地狱都完全不同的。
而在神曲里面,但丁也是在白色蔷薇花或者说白色植物之中,看见了上帝。
在DMC5中安排这个城市,也是他出生地方,在这里他放下了曾经挣扎过、强求过、渴望过、怨恨过、爱过的一切,回去他来的地方,迎接他这趟叛逆的惩罚,永无止境战斗着。
It is a state of psychological need for man to seek God-like perfection and devil-like depravity.
When God's dogma binds man and makes him suffer spiritually, he will instead fall rather than continue to elevate himself.
Urizen is both heaven and hell, V in heaven and hell, two situations within one person, and a manifestation of the complexity of man.
Love and hate, hedonism and materialism, in the contrast between the true, the good and the beautiful and the false, the evil and the ugly.
We can feel that everything in earthly life is not perfect, nor is there a natural divide between its opposites.
After all, human beings are no more than ordinary human beings, and those who live with their seven passions and desires are both great and pitifully small. Any feeble storm of nature, or the struggle of people themselves, will make it difficult for their own limited knowledge and physical strength to withstand these tests, not to mention the fall of morals, emotions and ideals. Of course, materialism is also the weakest point of human beings themselves, which cannot stand the test of time and will.
In human terms, flaws are always present.
But on the other hand, without the contradictions mentioned above, life would not be so varied, but would be a pool of stagnant water. It would be a false utopia that everyone would be crying out for, where people would lose their freedom and become tasteless replicas of the same idea and the same model.
A society without progress would sooner or later be abandoned.
At the same time, man himself and his defects are sharpened and repaired by stress and suffering. Of course, this presupposes that one must look at oneself and get to know oneself.
In the story, Vergil is able to cut himself open and realise from his heart (V) what his own behaviour (Urizen) is like, and in the opening scene of DMC5 he thinks that his lack of strength is the cause of the tragedy. He realises the error of his ways as he continues to loathe Urizen's actions, and as the plot progresses and death approaches, the honesty he reveals under his breakdown to others and the release of his past, both complete a path of self-improvement.
The final moment of merging, the moment he finally gets to the end of his reconciliation with himself, the moment he can finally learn to love himself too, the self that threw away everything in the pursuit of power with an ugly face, is also a part of himself. He was never a good man, nor was he a noble man in any other way, he really wanted to be powerful and strong, he didn't inherit such a thing and he didn't try to inherit the Spartan spirit. The idea of going home that day to save his parents and brothers was, no doubt, a noble human act for a young child. But it was also his life, and the desire to overcome his brother once and for all, not to deny it all, to try to pretend it never happened or existed, but to affirm that it did exist, even if the reality was not so beautiful.
Even in the midst of all this blood, there is a desire to affirm the fact that it exists, not to deny that it is not his own doing, not to run away from what is not his business, that he does exist, whether he has achieved anything in life or not, and that after all this he still has hope for the good.
V understands U and U desires V. He has come to know himself, has looked at himself, has taken the leap from death, has saved himself from the curse, and loves himself. Neither his mother's nor his father's curse can take effect on him any longer, and he finally breaks free from the shadows of his childhood and regains his life.
After all, he was to fight another duel with his brother to return from hell, even if he had to cut down a tree and close a door, which in order would have to come after the duel with Dante, and he did want to resolve those issues with Dante, but we can also see the transformation of Vergil after his resurrection in the DMC5 overture, such as his thanks to Nero after he regains his true form and his change of attitude when Nero appears in M20.
That is a rather awkward situation, if we were to fight Dante we would then find that Nero fights him and Dante would step in to stop Nero from fighting; if Dante continues to want to fight him, then enter the possibility that Nero would go and fight Dante. If it had been the old Vergil, that would have been very deadly insistent on continuing to fight Dante, but the m20 Vergil lines show the attitude that since it's all about defeating Dante, it's not a bad idea for Nero to fight instead.
Of course before Nero comes, the brother wins or loses whether he dies or survives, who he does not know, but he accepts that death is a kind of end, whether life has no meaning, loses or wins after death everything will become unimportant.
His mind returns to peace from the fierce struggle of the ego, from the lost way, the physical aspect of his fall giving him a spiritual evolution. This is also the theory of mutual division and unity, which is in line with the theory of shadows we mentioned earlier.
The shadow, the darkness, the other dark twin, the other I. This is the source of the life force, the source of creativity, and the part of the self that is loathed but cannot be missing. There can be no progress without opposition, attraction and repulsion, reason and power, love and hate are essential to human existence.
Vergil's journey was never one of suffering, without a glimpse of the landscape worth watching. But he came to his senses, he saved himself and built heaven. You can even see that the Hell that appears in the end of DMC5 is completely different from any other where Hell has appeared.
And in the Divine Comedy, Dante also sees God among the white rosebuds or white plants.
In DMC5 arranges this city, the place where he was born, where he lets go of everything he once struggled with, forced, longed for, resented and loved, and goes back to where he came from to meet the punishment of his rebellion on this trip, fighting forever.
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