ouatsnark

[ouatsnark]

SwanFire was a balanced relationship. DEBUNKED

Don't know how anyone can type that and hit send after watching Neal not tell Emma about his fiance then accuse Emma of being jealous then only pursuing Emma after his girlfriend is dead and he's decided not to be a coward and face his father.

But Ok. Sure.

"I am still so damn bitter that Emma and Neal and their beautiful, balanced relationship was thrown under the bus in order to make CS happen."

PAUSE. SwanFire was a speedbump in CaptainSwan's already planned happy ending.

But please. Continue.

"We could have had an amazing ship, built on a rich and deep history, where both parties adored one another and envisioned a future together, two lost children longing for home and finding it with one another.

Yes, before Neal abandoned Emma because he was a spineless coward, Emma was envisioning a white picket fence life with Neal. Boy did she dodge a bullet!

If Neal adored Emma as much as SwanFire claims he did... he'd have been waiting for her. He'd have gone to jail and once he had word that she'd broken the curse he'd have rushed to her side.

But he didn't. Because he moved on.

"Neal always wanted what was best for Emma"

Sending her to jail then not returning to help her when he knew she was in the same town as his father is wanting what was best for Emma?

I think we have different ideas on what is "best" for Emma.

"and Emma never stopped loving or wanting Neal."

Yet, she quite literally hoped he was dead.

But yes, Emma loved Neal. In that way one always feels for their first love. And also because he's the father of her son.

But when Emma stands Neal up for their date... that is Emma not wanting Neal. That is Emma not wanting to give him another chance to break her heart. Neal was not getting over the walls he'd helped Emma build around her heart.

"Neal made a mistake when he left her, but one can’t really blame him for running from his father (which was essentially what he was doing). "

Yes, yes we can totally blame him for being a coward. He is a coward just like his father.

"And he never forgave himself for hurting her,"

That's not canon but you're welcome to that opinion. I disagree because of the way he treated her upon their reunion. He is flippant about the pain he caused her (when he sees she's still wearing his necklace) and then yells at her over Henry as if he didn't leave her to take the fall for his crimes!

"and when he returned, he never pressured her to forgive him, never pushed her into giving him a second chance, instead he simply let her know how sorry he was and how he would be there"

He says some flowery things to Emma once his fiance is conveniently dead and Emma is now his only option... but please. He was pursuing Emma as much as Hook was pursuing her.

And again, there was none of this "letting her know how sorry he was" because again he doesn't own up to what he did. And this is all coming after his fiance is dead. After he accused her of being jealous. After he yelled at her for not telling him about Henry. After he says he never believed in her super powers.

"The wasted potential of Swan Thief still devastates me, especially compared to the toxic train wreck that was Cs. Hook has shown more than once that he’s more concerned with his desires than Emma’s grief. He pursued Emma knowing that she was grieving Neal TWICE. That’s not romantic. It’s swooping in and ignoring the needs of the person you’re supposed to be in love with."

Someone please point me to all of this grieving and swooping.

The SwanFire and anti-Hook fan base like to spout off their own opinion of what Emma is feeling as fact but it does not match up with what we see. When they meet up with Neal, she tells him that she hoped he was dead. When Neal re-entered her life he’d abandoned her a second time and gotten a fiancé. He’d also mocked her and refused to listen to her (compare that to Hook who was following her lead and believing in her).

Emma was also not acting like a woman grieving for another man so to expect Hook to realize your head-canonned feelings you’ve decided Emma should have is absurd. It’s also absurd to think that her “I hoped you were dead” was because she “didn’t want to go through the pain of losing him again”. What about the pain of abandonment and betrayal? Neal had caused her so much pain that she wanted it to be over. But since he is the father of her child her connection to him, for that reason, is essentially forever in some capacity. But to imply that she was still in love with Neal and wanted to be with him is not true. If she wanted to be with Neal then she wouldn’t have rejected him and stood him up.  And remember what happens when they do find Neal and get back to Storybrooke? Hook backs off!

If Killian was swooping in then where's the scene of him asking Emma out on a date after Neal's funeral? Oh. Yeah. There isn't one. Instead he'd been reassuring her that they'd find him and then afterward he was letting Emma make the first move.

Which she did after they had their adventure together because Neal would always be her past but Killian was always her future.

"and also that blog saying "you can't blame neal from running from his father." in a land without magic, where he knocked her up at SEVENTEEN, and framed her for a crime she did NOT commit, and ABANDONED HER when she needed him most. AND THEY WANNA BRUSH THAT OFF???" - Anon

Yes, they do want to brush that off. Because if you don't then you have a really toxic as hell ship that rightfully went to the ship graveyard.

[ouatsnark]

what do you think of the idea that if regina chose to adopt a kid a lot earlier that it would have been Emma and that she would have raised Emma and loved her instead of wanting to kill her. And by the time regina finds out who Emma is it would be "too late". I never knew this was a thing somewhere in the fandom till maybe a month ago when I got into a disagreement with someone about it because I think that regina would just go back to being the evil queen.

This sounds like someone who has an idealized version of Regina in their heads. The ones that say "Regina has a soft spot for children."

No, she doesn't.

If Regina knew who Emma was she'd have killed her.

There's just no way she would have kept Emma alive:

Regina tried to murder Emma as a newborn to prevent her curse from being broken. So she's isn't scared of killing babies. She left dozens dead in villages and at the blind witches all in pursuit of her own happiness.

Regina put the curse above Henry's welfare. She'd have done the same with a baby Emma.

She tried to kill Emma when Emma was already leaving. So we know she wasn't taking any chances. She did not want her curse broken.

Regina made it very clear that nothing was going to stand in the way of her happy ending.

[ouatsnark]

I saw a post on reddit about being annoyed with Emma and Snow when Emma took Henry to NYC in S2 without Regina's permission and how legally that wouldnt fly and I'm like ... I think maybe you or someone else did posts on how there was no legal standing for Regina to complain to authorities and have Emma arrested (someone suggested that).

Thoughts?

It's funny because I use to fight with the Regina Mills apologists all of the time on twitter over this and while I have several blog posts referencing Regina's illegal adoption of Henry... I don't know that I have ever made a blog post specifically about the claim that "Emma had no right to take Henry" although the arguments usually include the ending of S1, David in S2a, Emma's S2 trip to New York to find Gold's son and Emma wanting to take Henry back to New York in S3.

Regina would've had a hard time fighting for custody over Henry, period.

If Storybrooke had a legal system how would that work when whomever would be running it would never put a child in the Evil Queen's custody? They would find that Regina falsified the adoption papers and even forged her character references since they were all cursed and would never say the things she had them saying! Plus, if we discount how the writers ignored the child abuse after S2, multiple witnesses including Henry would come forward and tell how Regina mentally abused him for 10+ years. Then we'd get to the part where she committed many atrocities against the entire town and tried to murder Emma. Criminals do not get to keep their kids!

And if Regina tried to do so in the real world? How? Once a judge started looking into the case they'd likely see that so much red tape was cut, that Regina's name and social security number is false, that she's a mayor of a town that doesn't exist and that the home checks were never done. They'd find that Emma is Henry's biological mother and custody would be granted to Emma. Now, granted, this would all have to be done without the fairy tale aspect being brought up because if it was then they'd likely all be institutionalized and Henry would end up in foster care. So I really cant see Regina being dumb enough to try and battle the real world courts for custody of Henry.

Who had more rights to Henry?

Do criminals get to keep their children? No. Regina has abused children, including Henry, murdered entire villages and tried to kill everyone in S1 and S2 and for those reasons she lost custody of Henry in S2.

David had every right to take his grandson away from the woman that destroyed their family and just tried to kill his daughter. He had every right to honor Henry’s wishes and remove him from Regina’s abuse.

Emma did not need to ask Regina's permission in S2 for the above reasons. Regina was paying the price for being an evil tyrant and an abusive parent. Henry was scared of Regina. He did not want to be with her.

Emma did not need to ask Regina's permission to return to New York with Henry in Season 3 either. Regina had effectively lost custody.

Regina apologists need to spend less time crying over a child abusing mass murdering rapist and more time exercising some critical thinking skills.

[ouatsnark]

hi again, i have one more ask lol if i can fit it in, i saw a swanfire say hook was the most useless one in nl besides being the tour guide & all he did was derail everything by chasing emma around like a dog, he didn't know where pan's camp was or how to get off the island (neal and tink did), and neal got so much done while cutting through the dark foliage while hook was telling emma he'd win her heart, he just latches on like a flea. oh so neal is suddenly this upstanding hero? girl alright

Wow! I didn't know this was such a big talking point. I've come across this a few times now.

I've already kind of answered this over here:

If we're all being truthful... Neverland was indeed a group effort. It took everyone working together, under Emma's leadership, to save Henry and get out of Neverland.

It's important to mention that the only thing Regina was good for was almost getting David killed (whom Killian saved) and being a psychopath that doesn't regret destroying the Charming family's lives.

I have covered this a little bit here:

But this is a new one:

"all he did was derail everything by chasing emma around like a dog,"

How did Killian derail anything? You mean derail the search for Henry by RESCUING NEAL??? Are they actually mad about that? Or the time when he saved David because Regina's ego nearly got him killed?

"he didn't know where pan's camp was or how to get off the island (neal and tink did)"

Tink was a current resident. Of course she did. It's like the logic here is "Killian Jones didn't do EVERYTHING so therefore he is useless!"

Actually, Killian did know how to get off the island. He knew that Neal had done so and was spearheading a search to figure that out. Upon finding Neal's coconut, he realized what it was... a map off the island. And how did Neal know how to create a secret map to navigate off the island? Because Killian Jones taught him how to map in a coded way only he would know.

So yes, Killian knew how to get off the island: Find Neal. And without Killian Jones they wouldn't have found Neal in order to get off the island!

"Neal was cutting through the dark foliage while hook was telling emma he'd win her heart"

Hey y'all! Neal is good for something! Give the man a beer! He can cut his way through foliage!

Anyways, the 300 year old experienced pirate was right. Emma wasn't going to give Neal another chance to break her heart. And that he, Killian Jones, would win her heart. And it wouldn't be because of any trickery. It was because Emma Swan wanted Killian Jones.

[ouatsnark]

SwanFire is more like rape culture than CaptainSwan

How can it not be when one half of the ship (Neal - legally 23 but really 150) got the other half (Emma) pregnant when she was under-aged and she just accepts this and it's never brought up again? In fact, he gets a name sake and treated like a hero! Her parents push her to get back with him because he’s the father of her child!

I actually do not have to go any further than this. It’s canon fact. So. Case closed.

But for funsies, lets continue!

First off, why am I writing another blog about how CaptainSwan doesn’t promote rape culture?

I had two anonymous asks referencing SwanFire fans alleging that CaptainSwan promotes rape culture. So below are the SwanFires' arguments that were sent to me and my opinion on these SF stans' asinine statements.

"Emma doesn’t have any agency because she’s a fictional character and a group of men writers decide her fate and what she wants"

Well, they are right. Emma is a character and Emma does what the writers want her to do so her agency is in the hands of the writing team! But there were a lot of women on the writing team and those women had issues with consent too (even defending the whole Fook/Gothel and Fook/Emma debacle!) So. Lemme just throw all of that garbage out. The sex of the writers isn't relevant. You can't just throw out something you don't like because of someone's inherent characteristics. Instead, maybe try thinking critically on what was actually written instead of trying to just toss it out because you don't like someone's biological sex.

Since Emma was never written as being coerced into being with Hook… it's not rape culture.

"also saying a character has no agency and then proceed to say “oh she’d be grossed out or she’d never do that!” is confusing? What happened to her not having agency cause she’s fictional? Is it because she has no agency because she’s not doing something YOU wouldn’t do as a viewer? This whataboutmeism with these emma swan antis are ridiculous." - Anon

That is exactly what it is. They pretend to know Emma's character but in reality they just want Emma to behave how they want her to behave and not what's really true to her character.

"don't compare what Hook/Rumple/Regina did in favour of defending Hook."

I can and have defended Hook without bringing Regina, Rumple or Neal into it because it's easy to do. Now, these arguments might exist only on twitter. Not sure. However. I only bring other ships and characters into the discussion when it's relevant:

the person I am debunking has already done so or

to point out the blatant hypocrisy or logical fallacies.

For example: You can't say CaptainSwan is bad because of your asinine opinions but claim your pairing or character is better if your character or ship has actually done whatever you're accusing CaptainSwan of doing! And thus undermines your argument.

This is why I have two blog posts:

And another one:

Because it's been that side claiming it's what makes Swanqueen better than CaptainSwan. No, sorry, doesn't fly when Regina is actually guilty of these things! And. She's the actual canon rapist that got away with her sex crimes. I am bringing this up to point out why I often include other characters and ships in my defense but also because while these posts do not deal with Neal, those posts still defend CaptainSwan against the allegations and are thus relevant.

Since I’ve already covered the “jab you with my sword” line in the above links, I will not go into that here. I am sure the whole “usually my tactic” was also brought up and that’s also covered in those above links. And. Since the SwanFire fan brings Neal into it by saying Neal is a better choice because he doesn't present rape culture like Killian does… lets go do a little comparison and defense!

"The arguments that “Emma never said the word no so she didn’t want Hook to back off/Hook shouldn’t have been expected to back off.” supports rape culture"

… well… Emma wasn't directly telling Neal "no" either but she wasn't saying "yes" either so him pushing for a date and to get back into her life applies to him as much as Hook! So now what, SwanFires?

It's just a fact that Emma made every single decision on when and how her relationship with Hook progressed. That is very much anti-rape. Since Emma was fully consenting to all of it AND it was her decision. No matter how much you want to reach, the writing was simply not portraying Emma as being coerced because Hook most certainly did give Emma space. He was waiting around on her all of S3B.

"saying “But Emma really did want him. She just didn’t realize it/she just had her walls up/she was just pushing him away.” promotes rape culture"

Emma being afraid to love again and having abandonment issues, partly BECAUSE OF WHAT NEAL DID TO HER, is a valid argument of why it was important that Hook just didn't completely walk away from her. Emma needed to know she wasn't going to risk her heart again for someone who wasn't going to be there.

So Hook made himself available to help when needed but he was not pushing.

��saying "But Emma wanted to kiss him in Neverland! She was the one who kissed him first!” promotes rape culture"

And whether they like it or not, Emma admits to wanting to kiss Hook and the show portrays that kiss as deeply effecting both of them. So what are we trying to say here? That a woman wanting to kiss a man and doing so first is rape culture??? That doesn't make sense!

Emma never encouraged Neal. Not even when saying goodbye at the town line. She did not want to give him another chance to break her heart. But yet he somehow thinks he can just get back into her life! So much so that he resurrects the bloody dark one to do it!

“That doesn’t change the fact that Hook expected some kind of physical reward for simply being a decent person. In fact, had Emma not kissed, had she been grossed out by his behavior and shut him down, this would not be a problem because it wouldn’t be portraying this as romantic or acceptable. They way it happens in the narrative, however, does frame it as an acceptable thing, it does treat it as though a man is deserving of such rewards just for doing something decent, which is a mindset consistent with rape culture.”

I have gone over the fact that the Neverland kiss was not a reward until my fingers have cramped!

In order to believe that Hook REALLY thought he should be rewarded you'd have to disregard the fact that he tried to stop David from telling everyone. If he expected a physical reward, he’d have been shouting what he did from the rooftops. But he didn’t. Because Hook was teasing her. It’s called flirting. He’s a 300 year old pirate. Give it a rest.

Also, if Hook expects rewards for every decent thing then why didn’t he demand a reward for offering up his ship to go save Henry? Why didn’t he ask for a reward after he revealed Neal was alive and led them to rescuing him? Why didn’t he demand a reward for getting them safely home in his ship? Why didn’t he announce that he traded his ship so he could get to Emma and she could save everyone then demand another kiss then?

See it just doesn’t hold up! If Hook expects rewards for good behavior then he’d have been demanding them the entire time! We wouldn’t have seen him constantly shy away from being called a hero or praised when he did something right.

Therefore, that Neverland kiss was a playful flirtation. Had Emma walked away nothing would’ve come of it. But she didn’t walk away, because as stated above, THE GIRL JUST WANTED TO KISS THE HOT PIRATE! Geez, can’t women have anything without being ridiculed?

"neal actually apologized to emma and didn’t feel entitled to her"

Neal claiming that "he is sorry for everything" doesn't cut it. What is this "everything" that he is sorry for? Is it accusing her of being jealous? Of leaving her? Of making her take the fall for his crimes?

A confession of what he's sorry about would've been something but then again he's only saying this because he lost his girlfriend and decided it was convenient now for him to be with Emma. You know, since he was no longer running like a coward from his father. So no, Neal never really apologized to Emma. What he did is never addressed. Him telling her "I will never stop fighting for us" after is not an apology when he was looking to get back with her. If he did more than this, I'm gonna need someone to come with the receipts.

And he most certainly did feel entitled once he no longer had a fiance and wasn't running from his father because he quite literally tells Killian "well, she has me now" and "I wont stopping fighting for us" like there was any "us" when he was just about to marry someone else that he accused Emma of being jealous over! THAT is entitlement.

So if you think Hook flirting is him looking for a reward but Neal pursuing Emma when it's convenient for him isn't a red flag then I have a bridge to sell you...

Neal threw Emma’s feelings for him back in her face

For a guy living in modern times, that’s a pretty shitty move isn’t it? Emma tells him she doesn’t feel anything for him and he laughs at her. Like he can’t possibly see that she may be angry with him. This lends into our feeling that he seems entitled to Emma. He doesn’t have a need for her yet since he has a fiancé… but hey that’s coming.

Neal accuses Emma of being jealous

One of the charges against Killian is his jealousy over Neal and August. But what about Neal accusing Emma of being jealous? As if she can’t control her emotions and look at things logically? Oh and dismissing her super power.

What about Neal’s jealousy over Killian? I don’t see anything wrong with this from either character because it’s very human response. We all get jealous from time to time. Yes, Neal and Hook acted like immature school boys and goodness knows no human is perfect but I guess when you’re a 200 year old recovering pirate you ought to be? Give me a break. Stop labeling everything toxic.

What they did was ridiculous but it doesn’t cross the line. You know where the line is? Their behavior would have crossed the line if they’d demanded an answer from her then and there and then got violent when she didn’t respond or made a choice one of them didn’t like. Belittling her for her choices. Making her feel bad. THAT is toxic. But neither of them did that.

References can be found by reviewing this post on Emma's 1st love vs her True love.

I reject the idea that Killian Jones is a “Rape Culture” icon due to the fact that:

Hook never commits an act of sexual violence or threatens it (a joke is not a threat). Neal does since he gets an under-aged girl pregnant

Hook's actions have consequences in the form of the physical or being called out for it. We are shown that things he says and does is wrong. Sometimes a joke is just a joke. However, Neal’s behavior against Emma is never brought to light and he dies a hero without ever truly facing any consequences for his part in building Emma’s walls.

"and also that neal dropped everything he had to see his son and face his face lol when he found out about henry”

Not sure what this has to do with anything but do you know who risked his life for Henry on multiple occasions? Killian Jones.

But why we’re here, let’s review how Neal yelled at Emma in front of Henry for never telling him about Henry yet somehow him abandoning her is never thrown in his face? THAT should be labeled abuse culture if nothing else as it is Emma whose being demeaned when Neal’s actions caused all of it.

"But but but but the SwanFire age gap is OK because everything on Neal's wanted poster was a lie and Emma had Henry at 18 anyway"

Everything was not a lie. Are we trying to say he wasn't a thief now?

How old Emma was when she had Henry is irrelevant when we know that Emma meets Neal when she was supposed to be 16 years old. His name and birthday were a lie but that's because the truth is even worse. He was 150 by his own admission.

[ouatsnark]

i love your blog but i feel like you've been going about regina and leopold thing all wrong. yes regina chose to stay in that loveless marriage for so long but only because she really didn't have any other choice, she had no magic, or resources at her disposal, what else could she do? he's also like decades older than her looking for a mother for his daughter and chose the daugther of the woman he was og gonna marry LIKE EW. he didn't deserve to die by regina but he def was super weird

Sorry, but, I've pointed out many times that Regina absolutely did have a choice. And Regina chose to go through with the wedding instead of telling Snow and/or King Leo the truth.

And Regina kind of did have magic at her disposal. It's how she pushed her mother through the mirror prior to marrying Leo. And she had more access to magic once she decided to embrace her love for dark magic. Regina chose to stay so she could have the resources to get back at Snow and resurrect Daniel. You could also argue that once she had that magic she could've disappeared without destroying Snow's life but she wanted to. She wanted the throne.

Did King Leo ever realize who Cora was? I always wondered that but I can't recall a scene of him recognizing that it was even her. And yes, I can believe he may not realize since last he saw she was a pauper and now she's older and married to a prince. I think it's more EW that Cora pursued the man she tried to ensnare for her own gold digging purposes for her daughter.

And yes, you can think it's weird that King Leo simply wanted Regina to be a mother figure for Snow. As Regina says, she wasn't a wife to him. Too bad she turned out to be such a horrible mother. Poor Snow. I just always looked at it as he lost his love and just was looking out for Snow. And he thought Regina really cared for his daughter. He may be weird and he may be a fool when it came to a Mills woman but he was a good man.

"just adding on not to be hateful or anything. regina is such a wishy washy character either way but that situation sucked. but i think the reason she stayed was her thirst for power and getting revenge + rumple in her ear. she had never made any decisions on her own up until that point, the writing is very inconsisent with her tbh. so her not running away makes sense and her realizing she has to get rid of leopold in order to have REAL power. idk. you can let me know your thoughts"

The writing was inconsistent with her because at some point they decided they wanted to redeem the character and in order to do that they had to make her into a victim.

Yes, Regina not leaving makes sense but that doesn't mean she didn't have a choice. She CHOSE to stay. She was all set to run, as the above link will show you, but she chose to stay so she could get more power.

[ouatsnark]

sqs constantly argue that we bring up how emma and regina are related but not how emma and hook are related in some form to (cause of him and milah) and how we go out of our way to validate a forced marriage...but like literally everyone in ouat is related in some way shape or form unforunately so i feel like the whole related thing is such a lame reach and argument. the difference between cs and sq is that one, hook was never married to milah wasn't plotting to MURDER her as an NEWBORN

I really thought I'd made some more posts about this topic ... but... couldn't find them! Because this BS has been around a long time!

We don't talk about CaptainSwan being incest because it isn't

Why would we talk about something that isn't true? Even if Hook were married to Milah... Hook isn't blood related to Emma. Neither is Milah. So where's the connection to Emma? There isn't one. So CaptainSwan is not a blood related case of incest.

Emma and Killian aren't a familial bond case of incest either. This is when, for example, you have a stepfather marrying his stepdaughter that he raised. So what familial bond does Emma have to Milah? Milah never knew Emma or Henry. There has to be some kind of bond there, meaning Hook would've had to be a grandfather figure to Henry in order for this to be a thing. But he wasn't. Henry never saw Hook as a grandfather figure (but Snow saw Regina as a step-mother! More on that below).

I go on a pretty good rant about the OUAT fandom hypocrisy when it comes to incest. Because apparently even the HookedQueen crowd likes to harp on this while shipping Hook with both Cora and Regina!

Regina's marriage was valid

The Regina Apologists saying Regina's marriage isn't valid because she was allegedly forced to marry King Leo makes them sound like fools.

It doesn't matter if you think it was a forced marriage. It was still a legally binding marriage. Because Regina was of age. Therefore, the marriage was valid. Regina even calls herself Snow's step-mother.

A SwanQueen romance is pretty close to being incest

And even if you want to say that the marriage between Regina and King Leo doesn't count... Swanqueen is STILL closer to incest by their logic because Snow looked upon Regina as a step-mother. Snow looked to Regina for guidance as a daughter would a mother. And. Again, Regina has called herself Snow's step-mother. That's right! Familial bond, right there!

To be fair, I don't think this counts because this is Snow's bond to Regina and Emma never had a step-grandparent relationship with Regina... I am just using their logic of Hook being with Milah and Milah's blood connection to Henry as a way to point out the blatant hypocrisy in their illogical arguments.

HOWEVER, you can argue that Regina sees Emma as her step-granddaughter because she had a step-mother/daughter relationship with Snow and even tried to murder Emma as an infant.

So maybe it does count. I don't know. I will let you all decide! I don't really care. There's plenty of reasons why the Swanqueen friendship is trash so therefor any romantic connection would also be trash.

This post goes over Regina's marriage to Leopold in full depth with all of the receipts:

[ouatsnark]

i saw a great take saying that neal turning emma in when august confronted him was not cause she would fufill her destiny but it's because he was too much of a coward to face his father and that's so TRUE. when it came down to it not having to see his father was worth putting emma through all that physical and emotional turmoil, like father like son, two LOSERS

Swanfire and Rumple stans will die on the hill that this was Neal's only choice because he was trying to preserve Emma's destiny...

And while I think continuity wise the writers effed up and decided Emma needed to be alone in order for her to fulfill her destiny...

Neal had a choice that didn't involve leaving Emma to rot in prison for his crimes. He could have simply broken things off with her and disappeared.

So regardless of what you want to say his motives were... bottom line... he did NOT have to send her to prison. And he did NOT have to listen to August.

His fear or his not wanting to talk to his father was greater than any love he supposedly had for Emma.

Lets compare that to the fact that NOTHING stood in the way of Hook's love for Emma. He faced his greatest enemy, he fought off dark ones, and then sacrificed his life for her...

[ouatsnark]

No hard feelings on this but I want to know your thoughts on Hook letting Neal being kidnapped by the Lost Boys and letting him be endangered under Pan's hands. Also how they handled these two's relationship in the future by having Hook feeling nostalgia over his and Neal's relationship, like what happened between them never happened

Hook was a villain at this point and a very damaged person. He felt a deep rejection by Neal and to protect his own heart he cast Neal aside. He was selfish and thinking only of himself as villains usually do.

I don't know if it was a writing error or the writers just didn't feel the need to directly address it but... maybe one of the reasons Neal never brought it up was because from Neal's perspective... Neal did not want to stay with Hook. So either way you slice it, he may have ended up with Pan? I do believe from Neal's perspective he never forgave Hook for his part in taking his mother away and was further angry at him over Emma's obvious feelings for Hook.

In my opinion, I don't see nostalgia in Colin's portrayal of Hook's relationship with Neal present day... I see regret and shame.

Hook did care for young Neal. And when presented with a chance to get what he wanted, this time he did what was right because we see the change start to happen inside of him. He's letting go of the hate and vengeance that he let rule him for so long.

And I do believe Hook wanted to make amends. He was ashamed of what he did and I think we see that in his interactions with Henry. Henry is being a brat in S6 and the old Hook definitely would've left Henry on that submarine but this time we see Hook sacrificing himself for Henry and for another boy (Liam 2) Hook damaged because of his broken heart.

[ouatsnark]

saw a moron (sq) post about with hook/regina and the sheers that serum queen was protecting emma/hook cause he's hurting/betraying emma with those aganist her wil and was like "not on my watch!" like you actually fucking stupid. hook did make a bad decision with those shears and he acknowledges that i will say that but if anything the eq was manipulating the situation to her advantage and she wasn't protecting them she was trying to break them apart-

-this idiot was like "eq still cares about emma and henry and is not evil just grumpy and misunderstood."

PAUSE. Oh yeah, the serum queen cares so much about Emma that she's using the same anti-birth mother rhetoric her other half uses! And in front of Henry! Bad parenting 101. Ok lets continue.

"yeah sure she cares about them she's literally wished emma away and plotted to murder the rest of her family again sure. in that ep she was trying to go back to manipulating henry because that's what the eq knew best he was older and not falling for it anymore. the shears was a messy storyline but if anything it did show how much hook did care about her and henry"

PAUSE. Serum Queen cared about Henry as much as Regina did when she was abusing him before Emma showed up and made her stop. I mean she literally admits to terrorizing him and then calls him weak. Ok lets continue.

"like it's "oh okay yass serum queen you better plot to murder emma and her parents again and demean her 24/7, she stil cares!!!" that's okay in their supposed relationship but hook making another mistake "it's like omg they shouldn't be together he's so toxic!! he's hurting her." please….why"

PAUSE. Hook is so toxic yet he's the only one I see owning up to what he did, taking full responsibility, righting his wrongs and apologizing. Not only that, but he took the shears out of love for Emma and fear for her life. Everything Regina does (that includes serum queen cause that's still Regina) is self-serving. Sorry, luvs, but Regina is the toxic one. Not Hook. OK lets continue.

"also follow up to the other ask sorry this is so long, but i went back and rewatched the shears ep and the evil queen ends up taking them for herself at the end of the ep to give to gold/use on emma, so no she wasn't protecting henry, she was trying to create drama so she could get to them herself which is ironic because they said she had emma and henry's best intrest at heart, we can defend a lot of things but seuerm queen is literally so annoying, even regina some stans can't stand her"

Serum Queen was a major set back and totally wiped out any chances of Regina having a proper redemption because it was a literal shortcut to her happy ending. It erased her need for evil so she could be a good person. She used magic to try and make her a better person by removing what she did to her victims (taking away the blackness in her heart she put there) without her having to face her victims (effectively silencing them) and fast tracked herself to a happy ending.

And it's just a lie that Regina or the Serum Queen cared for Emma or even Snow because for the first time Regina actually had the chance to make up for everything she caused and she didn't take it.

I'm of course talking about how she let Emma face life without her parents by allowing the Charmings to face the Serum Queen and not taking matters into her own hands. But hey, when she can throw her goodness in Zelena's face she takes it! It was a few episodes later that Regina used her own heart to save Zelena from the Serum Queen because "that's what heroes do." Well, why didnt you do it to save the Charmings???

[ouatsnark]

i'm just gonna leave a link cause i can't recap the whole thing, you can break it down cause i can't submit urls here ( evilduckling / 142855439146 / how-can-you-say-youre-an-ugly-duckiling-and-ship? source=share

I love sources! Here's the link:

I actually started reading this going “Ok, this is fine. I get it. I didn’t start shipping CaptainSwan either until I saw the change beginning in Killian Jones. And they acknowledge Regina is a villain like Hook is.”

However, I ended up going “oh, there it is, there’s the delusion!” And things went downhill from there!

“Because EMMA is my favourite character and i ship her with who ever makes her happiest. Right now that means i am most definitely anti captain swan and pro swan queen.”

But there was never a moment when Regina made Emma happier. In fact, there is not one scene of them being happy together because they are together (friendship wise- this doesn't even exist). Henry, Snow, David and Killian have all made Emma happy. There's more evidence of Emma being happy in her friendship with Elsa than Regina.

Regina was busy treating Emma like complete garbage all of Season 4 and even into Season 5. Which if you want to fanon up a happy SQ friendship … be my guest… but don’t pretend like this isn’t a bias showing through. Because it’s just canonically incorrect.

Killian Jones makes her the happiest.

“Why wouldnt i ship my favourite character with the woman knew Emma’s biggest regret was leaving henry and worked to make sure that regret never happened? Why wouldn’t i ship my favourite character with the woman who gave her the life she always wanted?”

If we’re acknowledging that their friendship has taken a turn at this point (canonically we're told this, I disagree with how it was written but it is canon) and we’re not calling S1-2 abuse signs of true love… OK we can be friends.

I disagree that Regina is doing any of this for Emma but I can acknowledge that this person’s perspective on this scene is legitimate.

I personally believe it was all for Henry and Regina loved self-pity so she got to turn herself into a victim (just look how she makes everything about her, the S3 curse, losing Henry her pain was worse, her struggles are worse even though Emma was literally cursed with darkness, Emma's death visions were about her etc etc). Or maybe it just rubs me the wrong way because she can’t for one second recognize that she’s the reason Snow is separated from her daughter AGAIN and the show just completely destroyed Henry’s character by having him say everyone was better off cursed if it meant Regina wasn’t hurting.

Also, pretty sure everyone, including Killian, knows that giving up Henry is Emma’s biggest regret. This isn’t rocket science or something that’s special to Regina.

“Why wouldn’t i ship my favourite character with the woman who gave her her happy ending?”

Except she didn't actually succeed. Emma was miserable and about to marry a monkey.

“How dare i ship my favourite character with this person. I obviously hate emma swan so much. How dare i ship emma with someone who constantly saves her, believes in her and is literally in hell for her? “

That is canonically not true. Regina doesn’t believe in Emma. Unless it's convenient for her to say so because she wants something. They use the scene where Regina wants Emma to save Robin from the wraith as an example but they leave off the part where Regina accuses Emma of being the cause.

And I would argue Regina isn’t in hell for Emma. Regina disappeared on Emma to save a horse and have a family reunion. She was there because all the real heroes were there. But again, if that’s the way you want to look at it fine.

But let’s not pretend that Killian Jones hasn’t done even more for Emma and it was because he truly loves her. He was the only one to never lose faith in her. And. He wasn’t doing it for hero status or for anyone else but Emma and her family.

This is also kind of a straw man argument on the part of Swen because the real issue is…. why would you ship Emma with a woman that constantly belittles her, puts her down, refuses to follow her lead… etc etc NEVER MIND all of the reasons that Regina is the reason Emma’s family was torn apart… a reason that Regina doesn’t regret.

The above post is specific to how they follow Emma's lead but you can find so much more information in my Regina Vs Killian and how they treat Emma series.

“Instead i should ship her with a man who has tried to kill emma just as many times - the last time being like 4 episodes ago???”

No, you don’t have to. But while you claim “just four episodes ago” there is an issue here because there’s a big detail being left out: Killian was consumed by darkness. Regina never was.

This blog owner refuses to accept this detail but more on that below.

Also, correction: Regina has still tried to kill Emma and her family more times than any other character. Killian, when consumed by darkness, was a conduit for the dark ones so he's actually never tried to kill Emma and her family. That is not something he would ever want. He does too much to help Emma stay with her parents for this to even be a thing so it's obvious this is all the darkness' doing. Regina tried multiple times before Emma was born, as she was being born, before the first curse is broken in S1 (Emma's brakes, framing Snow, the apple, the tart) and after the curse (teaming up with Cora, the well, the kill switch).

"Regina wasn’t responsible for Neal leaving emma in prison - that was August and Neal.”

No one disputes this? No one blames Regina for this. Granted, Regina’s decision to cast the curse put all of these character’s in these situations but the choices they make are their own.

“Regina wasn’t responsible for the mess between Lily and Emma - that was Snow and Charming’”

This is a swing and a miss. This isn’t anyone’s fault but Lily and Emma’s. Emma has her own agency (as much as any character can have). She’s responsible for her choices and her actions. Not really sure why this is a big deal though. This is typical growing up behavior. I've never used this as a weapon against SwanQueen because it just doesn't hold water. IMHO. There's stronger arguments against the friendship than this... like why are we discussing this point right now?

Oh because they need to point fingers away from Regina and onto anyone else just like their queen does. Can't have Regina taking responsibility for her decisions!

"Regina wasn’t responsible for August leaving Emma in the foster home - that was August (and i know he was a child but still)"

I’d argue this one is a little more grey because neither child would be there if not for Regina’s curse or those that conspired to get August into the tree thus preventing Snow from going…. but August is just a child. This is not his fault either. So I don’t think it’s fair. I don’t think this specific thing is Regina’s fault… what is Regina’s fault is the Charming family being torn apart.

“Regina cast a curse but it was Snow and Charming that put emma in the wardrobe - not Regina”

And here it is! The Regina Apologist in this Swen has arisen!

No, luv, it is still Regina’s fault. The Charmings had no choice because Regina didn’t give them a choice. Regina would’ve killed Emma and everyone would’ve been cursed for eternity.

“Remember this? It’s rumple being taunted by your precious Killian. See because of situations like these, where rumple was so powerless against other people - other men like Hook - that he takes  power wherever he can. Enter the dark one”

Sorry, luv, but no one forced Regina to cast the curse. She chose to do it. Her actions caused it. Therefore she is responsible for the curse.

"So let’s summarise - If killian hadnt made rumple feel so powerless, rumple wouldnt have become the dark one, wouldnt have lost his son,.."

We don’t know that for sure. And I disagree. Even if Killian hadn’t come along, Milah was destined to leave her coward of a husband who had shamed his family. Her unhappiness was there long before she met Killian. So I believe all of this still could’ve happened with or without Killian. I mean the reason Rumple took on the darkness was to save his son from the Ogre Wars. Last I checked, Killian didn’t cause those!

And even so Regina still chose to cast the curse. Therefore, she is responsible for her role that she played in it. Now is Rumple also culpable? Sure. He helped her, after all. But who’s out there saying that Rumple is a better choice for Emma? There’s probably like one person. So Rumple sharing in part of the blame is kind of irrelevant to the topic.

"Last person who tried to kill Emma’s family - Killian.  And before you say Gold isnt family - yes he is because quite literally in the next episode emma says “You’re henry’s grandfather. Like it or not that makes us family”

Correction: at the time this blog was written the last person to try and kill Emma’s family was the Dark Ones.

And this person is seriously trying to use a line from S2 to justify this when Gold has betrayed them multiple times since including the end of S5 and S6? Yes, Emma says this as justification for helping him during S2. After all, family means a lot to Emma and I think she was trying to help Gold turn a page.

But let’s not pretend that any of them had any real affection for Gold after his multiple betrayals. Emma was ready to take him down in S5 and S6 when he stood in the way of her true love. So. That argument is so disingenuous. It's a perfect example of reaching so far you make a fool out of yourself.

And technically Gold is the last person to have tried to kill Emma’s family by the end of the series. This blog was written prior to the ending of S5 so I’ll let this slide.

"And Hook being the dark one does count as the only thing that can control a dark one is excalibur/dagger and Hook was not being controlled by anyone. This was most definetely hook being an ass and nothing else."

And here comes the Regina Apologist again trying to deny the dark curse. It was not “Hook being an ass and nothing else” like please do not pretend like we didn’t see a complete change in him when the darkness took over! Because we did.

Also, Season 5 tells us repeatedly that those cursed with the darkness become someone else entirely. I've already covered this here:

And this one goes even further into how the darkness controlled even Emma for a hot second:

So the fact that they refuse to accept or acknowledge canon is why we can’t be friends. Because they use their fanon and complete disregard for canon as a weapon against us.

If they had just stuck to saying "yeah I ship Emma and Regina post S3 because Regina is on Team Hero now" and said nothing else... we wouldn't be here right now.

" - is the reason for emma’s darkness" (aka her saving Killian)

Not by any fault of his own. He begged her not to!

It was Regina Mills that begged Emma to risk becoming a full on dark one to save her handbag!

See, I don't know how you can ship SwanQueen when Regina is clearly willing to sacrifice Emma for her handbag and Emma is clearly fighting for her true love Killian Jones... and it's Killian Jones putting Emma first while Regina is still thinking of only herself.

"Pretty sure Regina’s been the one fighting for Emma’s light harder than anyone"

Incorrect! Evidence is in how they each treated Dark Swan and how they treated the Dagger.

It was Killian that faced the Wicked Witch to get to Emma. It was Killian that believed in her enough not to control her with the dagger. It was Killian that helped Emma light the flame. It was Killian that ultimately fought the darkness and restored Emma’s light.

"is awful to emma’s son?"

Killian: "Riveting tale, Snow likes oatmeal. Is my morning breakfast in there too? Henry I thought you were gonna use your author powers to get us to defeat Hades."

And there we have it. Ignoring S1-2 and picking ONE LINE out to try and say Killian was awful to Henry. Oh you would not win this argument with me, luv. You would lose and lose horribly.

Regina Mills abused Henry for the first ten years of his life and was not that great of a mother in later seasons either. That alone trumps one frustrated line from Killian Jones who was worried for everyone's safety when they'd all come there to help save him.

And even with the first ten years of abuse, we have these present day moments where Regina was just awful to Henry:

[ouatsnark]

I saw a sq who said they were watching a season 3 dvd commentary and colin had laughed and said hook was very persistent and he wondered why hook never gave up on emma, taking it as "oh even he was uncomfortable and felt weird about CS." like oh brother....you guys taking the actors words as gospel but not the writers

CONFESSION: I do not own the DVDs and therefor I haven't seen the commentary. So I can't really comment on what Colin said without seeing the video. I imagine he was just joking though... as Colin has been very supportive of CaptainSwan.

But I do want to say that these stans just pick and choose what they want to listen to!

If Colin's words are gospel then what about all of the times the entire cast and the writing room has said Swanqueen doesn't exist on paper or on screen?

Their queen has even said:

"Hook has come a long way" FACT

"She's always sarcastic, she's always belittling him" SEE! Regina is not a good person! Her sarcasm is 100% belittling people. And Regina has no room to belittle, anyone, even Hook, when she's done worse things than he has. And that's a fact.

"She puts up with him and if he makes Emma happy she's happy" And he does make Emma happy. That is what the show has written.

[ouatsnark]

i also saw a sq say that killian is a terrible influence on henry cause all he does is teach henry to lie and keep secrets from his moms and tried to kidnap him (from ZELENA mind you and emma got mad at him for that and henry was already itching to go back to NY) like and also that “"I know my way around women" comment he made to Henry who was thirteen. Why is a grown man making a sexual innuendo towards a minor?” it’s never that serious. and they act lkke regina is a stand up influence on henry…

Oh let me refresh the little Regina apologists minds on:

What Killian Jones aka Captain Hook taught Henry Mills

Sailing. How to navigate.

How to handle a sword.

What his father was like as a boy

How to tie a tie.

Ways to help Emma look toward the future

How to talk to women (and respectfully as Henry was never inappropriate with Violet).

Was Hook perfect? No. But the "I know my way around women" line is completely blown way out of proportion. It means Hook knows how to be charming. That's it. Get your minds out of the gutter!

Regina's negative influence on Henry

I actually cover a lot of this here:

But lets add some more to this list!

In S1-2 Regina was abusing everyone to get what she wanted.

Regina left her 10 year old son to go rape a man.

In S4 she had an affair with a dying woman's husband so again showing Henry that what you want at the expense of others (including another small child) matters most. And yes, intent matters as they all believed it was really Marian.

She put Henry in danger so she could rewrite everyone's stories so she'd get a happy ending. Showing him that taking the easy route instead of owning your mistakes.

Thank goodness Henry had more influence from the actual heroes!

What did I miss? I'm sure there are more.

[ouatsnark]

hi!! i know it's been a while but i wanted to share something that i saw that i thought was crazy lol. i saw a regina apologist say regina suffered more in that 10 day period (2.21-3.12) being tortured, going to nl, and fighting off that new curse then hook did in the UO (since apparently he was only down there for 3 days & since he was dead he didn't really "suffer") like other people were down there like cora but she wasn't being tortured & that hades is just a sadist. whenever you can answer!

Are we sure about this timeline? I honestly don't remember the timeline on the passage of days but also... who cares? The length doesn't really matter. However, the severity of what was done, and why it was done, does matter.

Killian was physically and mentally broken

Killian was chased down and cornered by a hell beast that later ripped him to shreds as he sacrificed himself for another!

Killian was then beaten and tortured some more by Hades himself because Killian refused to do his bidding. He had fractures, he could barely walk, he was cut up and bruised.

Killian endured the pain of his torture for a while after being rescued as Emma's magic wasn't fully functioning until like the next episode.

The after life is not without pain. That's why there's a heaven and an underworld. I mean are these people dumb? We not only see him experiencing pain but Emma could also feel his pain. And she did, more than once.

And before all of that went down?

Killian was desperately trying to save his true love from the same darkness that murdered a woman he use to love and sent him on another path of vengeance.

Killian was turned into the dark one, something he hated more than anything, against his will and did things he would not have done had it not been for the darkness.

And being stabbed through by a pretty large sword and separated from the woman he loved and losing the life he'd been creating with her? Not a walk in the park either!

He said goodbye to Emma, a woman he truly loved (canon fact, accept it haters), four times that season. He lost her when she sacrificed herself to save the town, when he died in Camelot, then when he died in Storybrooke and then again when they couldn't save him in the Underworld! He died 3 times in the span of how many episodes? 4x22 to 5x11?

He was mentally broken down because he carried the weight of all of this on him and believed his fate should be decided in the Underworld.

Killian was in turmoil for all of Season 5!

What did Regina endure? JUSTICE.

Regina endured a little electrocution by her victim so that he could find out what she did with his father. Excuse me if my care factor is somewhere around -100.

Furthermore, she was rescued by her victims which she blamed and then didn't even thank them. She rebounded from this quite quickly and without even a moment of realization that maybe she deserved every second of it. Kilian on the other hand felt it was justified because of his past and his weaknesses (that he made up for).

Was this traumatic? I'm sure it was. But it was apples compared to what Killian endured at the hands of Hades.

And nothing happened to Regina in Neverland that amounted to anything close to what Killian went through in Season 5 nor did it go beyond anything other characters experienced at that time or any other time.

Was Regina in pain over losing the love of her son she'd abused for years? Yes. She also made a lot of that about herself. Yes, she was worried for Henry but it was more about her loss than anything else.

Again my care factor is -1000.

UPDATE: I received an anonymous ask about this same topic so I thought I'd just add it on here.

"i saw a regina stan complain that we saw regina getting graphically tortured but not uo killian and that his was implied with wounds....DO Y'ALL REALLY WANNA SEE THAT???? Hades tortured him to the point where his entire physical appearance was altered and he needed to be magically healed...why would y'all-" -Anon

That fandom will do and say ANYTHING to discredit something they believe stands in the way of their delusions. I guarantee you that if we had seen Killian's torture... they'd still find a way to say that it doesn't matter.

[ouatsnark]

i need a glass of wine after sending this but here’s another horrible take i saw about niume wasn’t controlling any of the do’s and it says “

Nimue wouldn’t have been so concerned about Emma potentially destroying the darkness if she was controlling her, she wouldn’t have had to try and taunt her with “being nothing” if she was controlling her. She would have had her take Gold’s blood when he was unconscious and at her mercy and open that portal a hell of a lot sooner if she was controlling her.   

And Hook didn’t even start acting like the Dark One until after he realised he was the Dark One. Why didn’t Nimue try and control him when he was unawares? (Because I have an extremely hard time believing that something as simple as a memory wipe is enough to stop the dark one - otherwise, they would have put a memory spell on Gold and have done with it.) oh, that’s right, because she can’t control people like that. “

And they drabble on about Hook acting evil cause he decided to plunge headfirst in cause he realized he could it’s just more bullshit

Nimue was 100% controlling Emma in this particular MOMENT:

2. The MOMENT Emma screams "I was never nothing" is Nimue ATTEMPTING to maintain control over Emma. However, we clearly see Emma being strong enough to resist her and Nimue's tie to her is broken. This explains why "taking Gold's blood..." or "opening the gates to hell" is irrelevant poppycock.

3. The show LITERALLY tell us that the one effected with the darkness must accept it for it to fully take hold. That is why Emma has some of the dark one power perks but not the "alligator skin" like Gold.

Here are some more quotes that back up my statements:

Merlin: DARKNESS LIKE THIS TAKES A HOLD OF A PERSON, FIND ITS WAY DEEP INSIDE, WHERE NOBODY ELSE CAN SEE. SO IF I AM TO FREE YOU FROM ITS GRASP, I MUST KNOW ONE THING. EMMA, IS YOUR HEART TRULY READY TO BE FREE? BECAUSE IT IS AS MUCH UP TO YOU AS ME

Merlin: I see two paths for our journey, Emma. On one, you resist the darkness and we succeed. On the other, you succumb to the darkness and I do not return. I die. Emma: You die? But... Merlin: Even immortality has exceptions. A dark one does have the power to kill me. Emma: But they won't even be there. Not really. ( Merlin looks down. ) Emma: Oh. It would be me. If you died, it would be me. Merlin: If I die, it means that you lost your battle and the darkness stained your soul. Everything and everyone that you know will be at the mercy of the most powerful dark one ever... Yourself. No pressure.

Emma: When I was seeing Rumplestiltskin in my head, he said he would only be with me until I embraced my dark powers. So recently, I've been thinking maybe not seeing him, maybe that's a bad thing. Merlin: Have you embraced your powers? Emma: I've done some dark things recently. I hurt someone... My son. And if I dig deep down... the darkness is winning. But there's hope, right? You wouldn't be bothering to get this spark if there wasn't still hope. Merlin: There is hope, and it's up there.

And finally, my favorite one. The one that shows what Emma is willing to do to save the life of her true love, Killian Jones.

4. Hook acknowledged his weakness. He knew he wasn't as strong as Emma. But we also need to acknowledge that his love for Emma was stronger than Rumple's love for Belle and Nimue's for Merlin because only Killian Jones rejected the darkness and never sought it again. He saw the pain it caused Emma and he fought it. Emma and Killian, together, did what no one else could do: they stopped the dark ones. If not for Rumple. they'd have succeeded in doing what Merlin had been trying to do which was eradicate the darkness for good.

Hook was stronger than Rumple and Nimue. And that is just a fact.

[ouatsnark]

Fandom asks

I really appreciate all of the asks but I'm getting a lot of them about things already covered. I don't want to bog down the blog with the same things over and over again but I may sound off over on the twitter account!

https://x.com/camelotroses?s=21&t=gmCtnLZJ3bnvPcDbCIrYAg

Cause things are dead there. And I dunno I feel like there may be an opportunity for more dialog that way.

I've also shut off the anon thing for a bit so I can catch up. Life has been really busy for me lately.

[ouatsnark]

DEBUNKING Lies about CaptainSwan's True Love Test

I've been getting a lot of messages about this topic and while I've spoken about this when answering other asks or in longer debunkings... I decided to bring all of the lies together into one post.

The Lie: “The scales test was supposed to prove that Captainswan is true love because Emma chose to save hook instead of herself, but Emma, being the savior, would sacrifice herself for just about anyone. In fact, she did the same exact thing for Regina.”

The Truth: This isn’t entirely false but they are purposefully leaving out a specific detail here:

The scale was weighing her heart to see what kind of love it was.

“I think I know. I think I have to weigh my heart to see if my love for you is true.” - Emma 5x20

So if Regina had been standing there instead the door wouldn’t have opened because Emma’s heart doesn’t share true love with Regina. But it did open for Killian Jones. I still think his response was being tested as well because the show was always saying or showing that true love is shared. You can’t have true love if the other person doesn’t return it (like Rumple and Belle have both rejected the other or how it doesn’t work when the other person doesn’t remember who they are or who the other person is). Not only did they pass a true love’s test but a Greek god basically said "these two kids belong together” and made it happened. So the writing is clearly telling you that these two characters are true love and if that wasn’t enough they had a second true love’s door test in S6 that opened a door to Killian Jones.

CaptainSwan was shown to share true love. It’s canon. Deal with it.

I also just really hate the hypocrisy with them! According to the SQers, when it comes to Regina, Emma only sacrifices for Regina because it’s true love but if Emma sacrifices for Killian Jones then all of the sudden it's because she would do that for anyone! News flash: if a random town person had been about to be destroyed by the darkness like Regina then Emma still would've taken on the dark curse! Sorry to burst your bubbles!

The Lie: “Emma’s speech to Regina in 4x05 proves that the test in the Underworld wasn’t a test of romantic true love, but a test of character for Emma. Hook represents an ordeal or an enemy. If she can love her enemy like she loves herself (and the test has her choosing between her own pain and his) then she can definitely love everybody like herself. Meaning she can walk around in the world and regard everyone with compassion" so they bring in her speech to regina in 4x05 and how personal love like hers for regina trumps hers with hook cause it's personal."

The Truth: For starters, the show isn’t that deep. Now, if you want to make up all of the subtext you want, however illogical you want, go for it!

But truth is, Hook wasn’t representing an ordeal or an enemy. If anything, the test would be the enemy since the test was what was causing the pain. You don’t save an enemy from an enemy. The fire would be the enemy. I swear, when they reach for something they truly reach. So that’s a swing and a miss right there.

As for Emma’s NAUSEATING speech in 4x05…

Emma: No, when I was a kid. Someone came into my life for a while, and I thought we were gonna be… Best friends. But this girl lied to me, and I pushed her away because of that lie, and she asked me to forgive her, but I never did. It took some time, but I realized that was a mistake. And I regretted the decision. But by then, it was too late. The damage was already done. I don't want to make the same mistake again, Regina. Living in Storybrooke, I've got my son and my parents, and I love them. But they can't always understand me. They don't know what it feels like to be rejected and misunderstood… Not the way I do, not the way you do. And somehow that makes us… I don't know… Unique, or maybe even special. I wasn't looking for you to assuage my guilt. I was just looking for you to be my friend.

First off, I can barely read through this garbage without gagging. Imagine writing a heroine begging for the friendship of a woman who destroyed her childhood and doesn’t regret it and whose acting like it’s the heroine’s fault her life was ruined when SHE caused it by being a ruthless tyrant? Anyway, I digress. This scene is disgusting and definitely has NOTHING to do with a romantic true loves test.

Emma is trying to connect with Regina because the writers have decided that the two need to be best friends. However one sided it may and did end up being! Emma was trying to get back on Regina’s good side after being blamed for causing Regina’s broken heart. It doesn’t go any deeper than that. And if you look at this speech, it's even more disgusting because Regina doesn't know what it's like to be rejected or misunderstood in the way Emma was. Emma was rejected by her adoptive family and other potential adopters through no fault of her own. Regina CHOSE to be an evil tyrant and because of that she was rejected. She was never misunderstood. Everyone understood perfectly well that she would kill anyone in the way of taking the throne.

Besides. Hades and the writing on the scale specifically mentions true love not self love or platonic love or friendship. Emma definitely doesn’t love everybody. She also doesn’t share true love with everyone either. The show has never once proven or even hinted at that.

The Lie: Regina was actually Emma's true love in the Underworld and that the test was a lie.

The Truth: Hades lied about the tree. But he did not lie about the test. The test happened.

What proof is there that Regina is Emma’s true love? Emma and Killian sensed each other while apart. All Regina did the entire time was chase after her first love’s ghost, heal a horse, and have a family reunion.