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paladinalchemist · 4 years ago

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They’re step-siblings, not cousins, but close.

But actually Edelgard mentions Dimitri a lot in her route, she just doesn’t remember it’s him that she’s talking about.

With all due respects to the other person who reblogged this, they’re incorrect. Dimitri actually made a bigger impact on Edelgard than vice versa. When Edelgard left, Dimitri gave her a dagger and told her to “cut her own path.” Dimitri’s parting words and gift to Edelgard is actually a core foundation of the identity she forms for herself after her trauma and one of the main things she uses to continue pushing on. Essentially, a lot of how Edelgard is able to handle and deal with her trauma is because she clung to Dimitri’s word so strongly and were a constant source of strength to her.

She also considers Dimitri a good leader too. He’s one of the few characters in the entire game she says would’ve made an excellent leader (if times were different). She also cries when he dies. So pretending like she just brushes him off as nothing but an object in her way is totally incorrect.

Dimitri is also her first love (she didn’t know they were step-siblings). She says so in a special event you can unlock. She doesn’t mention him by name because she doesn’t remember his name, but she describes him. So to claim that it’s some weird one-sided obsession on Dimitri’s side is totally untrue. She loved him once. His words to her had a huge impact on her.

As for Dimitri crushing on her. That’s unlikely. Dimitri, once he found out they were step-siblings (he didn’t know when they knew each other, and yes it’s very convoluted backstory that could’ve seriously used some ironing out), says he saw her like family. All of Dimitri’s family is dead save for an uncle he doesn’t have a good relationship with and Edelgard. Dimitri is desperate for family and there’s no real reason to doubt he feels that way.

Plus, Dimitri is not exactly what we call “suave.” Twice two characters tease Dimitri about what appears to be a crush on Edelgard. Both times he casually waves it off. Whenever Dimitri is confronted about anything actually romantic, he turns into a stammering, blushing, air-head and seriously cannot handle flirting or romance. He has a support where he literally runs away from a girl because she responded well (or badly, not sure it’s ever made clear) to his flirting (which he only agreed to and attempted in exchange to convince his womanizing friend to change his ways) and has a special scene (should you choose to romance him) where as a grown ass man he is reduced to blushing and tripping over his words and saying ridiculous things while confessing. This is not someone who casually waves off romantic stuff at all.

I always lament that Edelgard forgets Dimitri too. This game in general has a penchant to downplay all of Edelgard’s relationships to force her romance onto the self-insert quite hard and in painfully cringe-worthy ways at times. It irks me because it short-changes her and her relationships with other characters too - especially a man named Hubert. I also think it’s a cop-out so the game can dodge the fact she’s setting out to kill Dimitri (and others) multiple times while trying to achieve her goals. Because if she remembered him, it could look bad, but once again robs her of potentially amazing development and sign of convection to her ideals. I know they give an in-game reason, but she’s not real and the writers choose to make her forget rather than give her more meaningful moments and relationships by letting her remember.

Okay so I haven’t played FE3H bUT from what I’ve heard in Dimitri’s path it’s mentioned how Dimitri and Edelgard were cousins or something (correct me if I’m wrong) and familial ties and stuff like that or whatever, I’m not entirely sure. But In Edelgard’s route their relationship was like,,, never mentioned?

I don’t know, this just sort of reminds me of Kaeya and Diluc’s stories. Kaeya’s story is all like ‘I was taken in by Master Crepus and Diluc was my brother before shit hit the fan’ and Diluc is all like ‘I’ve travelled the world in my grief’.

It’s just really funny in my opinion-

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paladinalchemist · 4 years ago

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I just wanted to say I would read the shit out of this.

Ionius is criminally under discussed and explored. Current meta paints him as some sad boy hours victim and completely ignores how he tried to turn the Empire into a dictatorship.

There is one 3H fanfic I particularly like, since it's about CFByleth realizing what Edelgard is doing after Claude's death and getting the hell out of there. But for the most part, 3H has made me wary of FE fanfics in case certain fans try to rewrite the stories of other games to be more in line with a certain character.

Far enough as well. That one sounds kind of fun.

I can see my fic not going over well. The premise was an AU where Ionius waged war on Foldan and conquered it, with the present day being a political battle over who owns the rights to war prisoner Dimitri- Edelgard, his wife in a political marriage to keep uprisings from the old kingdom from happening, or Claude, the newly appointed King of Almyra, who comes to the Empire to take back Dimitri as he was signed over in a treaty between the two nations as a gift to Almyra.

I can see people not liking some parts of this. Part of me is petty and wants to write it. Part of me wants people to actually read it.

I'm definitely not on the same wavelength as a lot of the fandom, though.

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paladinalchemist · 5 years ago

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While you can’t 1-for-1 any 3 Houses character with anything in American politics, Edelgard holds more conservative values and Dimitri more liberal ones.

Atheist Edelgard = Liberal and Religion supporter Dimitri = Conservative is a surface level understanding of what the two political parties stand for (and not even true, since Dimitri’s not particularly religious).

Edelgard also being Liberal because she can S-Support F!Byleth also makes no sense in regards to 1-for-1 American politics, because her main opposition, Rhea, can also support F!Byleth. Edelgard isn’t overthrowing a homophobic regime, Rhea’s bi herself, something everyone who makes these arguments wholly ignores.

Edelgard’s “rise and fall by your own merits” is very close to Conservative “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” mentality. They both support the idea that people are wholly in charge of their own fate by virtue of their own hard work. Meanwhile, Dimitri’s “the ‘weak’ need some help and shouldn’t get left behind” is far more in line with Liberal values of having government safety nets and promoting the cultural underdogs to give them the boost needed to compete. Dimitri is also the only lord in the game to set up anything resembling social welfare, something a modern US Liberal would definitely prioritize. Meanwhile, Edelgard acts like inequality is a new concept to her when Ferdinand points out that her system will never work if the commoners don’t get a boost.

Conservatives would also love Edelgard’s big military approach to everything, though I will admit her large government power wouldn’t go over well with them, though.

Saw someone say dimitri is conservative , is that take popular since i don't have any idea about American (?) politics.

No idea if it’s popular. Definitely not as popular as the “Dimitri is a moderate whiteboy”

By conservative I assume that they mean with regards to social issues. Conservative is basically the inverse of progressive in common understanding (idk about literal definition). In America there’s also a general association between conservatives and religion (I.e. if you are conservative you are more likely to be Christian).

So basically it’s the same old shit. Dimitri hates social reform/communism/progress/the gays/whatever bullshit they wanna project on him. The main difference, I assume, is that “Dimitri is a moderate” implies he does nothing to change Fodlan whereas “Dimitri is a conservative” implies that he actively works against positive change.

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paladinalchemist · 5 years ago

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It’s probably the same guy making 2 separate accounts.

Imagine hating a fictional character so much??? Like . . . it’s omega right?

Also, what a complete dick. Imagining hating a fictional character so much you decide that you want all mentally ill people to die. I seriously cannot comprehend thinking that way.

So apparently that one really loud Reddit Edelstan got banned and created an anti Dimitri twitter account where all he does is post ableist stuff about how Dimitri is “psychotic and should die” and how “Byleth is his abuse victim” and she should’ve “killed him like the rabid dog he is.” How does someone hate a fictional character so badly that they go to these extremes, not even touching in the absurd amounts of ableism???

Is this the Edelstan I’m thinking of?

Because honestly that’s hilarious I must find this twitter account.

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paladinalchemist · 5 years ago

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I’m a sucker for multiple Dimitri ships, so I’m not exclusive Dimilix, but I do ship it among others. I’m assuming you’re okay with spoilers? Because I will mention what happens to Felix in all routes.

I do agree that their A-Support leaves too much unresolved (what I would do for an A+ support), but I feel otherwise there’s a lot of good content to justify shipping it.

First, I disagree vehemently that Felix lost his faith in Dimitri/detests him. His reaction to Dimitri is so extreme because he’s so attached to his old version of Dimitri and struggles to accept how trauma affected his old friend. Felix being traumatized by the same event only makes things more difficult and complicated, as does Rodrigue’s rocky relationship with Felix vs his good one with Dimitri, Glenn dying to protect Dimitri and leaving Felix behind, and Dimitri never putting up the fight Felix is looking for in their early supports.

In their A-Support, Felix has had 5 years to mature and had to temporarily consider Dimitri was dead for good via Cornelia’s execution. He shows a willingness to accept that Dimitri’s trauma has permanently affected him, but that doesn’t mean the other side of Dimitri that Felix loved so much is gone or that Dimitri will continue using such horrible coping mechanisms and is striving to do better vs the past where he just ignored it.

A lot of what Felix says about Dimitri in AM and outside of it both in White Clouds and post-TS monastery dialogue is often Felix begging Byleth to help Dimitri in his usual crass way. If Felix didn’t care about Dimitri, he wouldn’t constantly ask Byleth to help Dimitri. He’s also waiting in the church and watching over Dimitri immediately after the TS and only leaves once he’s handed protecting Dimitri off to someone else (Byleth) as Felix knows he can’t do it. I mean, even their dining dialogue showcases Felix looking out for Dimitri, insisting Dimitri eats his meat because he’s worried Dimitri will faint, and later being concerned with how Dimitri’s eating (being the ONLY character who notices Dimitri’s got a weird relationship with food).

Likewise, at the end of AM, we do see Felix explicitly supporting Dimitri. In the monastery dialogue, he tells Byleth as much, but tells Byleth to not dare tell Dimitri he said that - which is both Felix being a tsundere, but also showing he’s not totally comfortable with the notion (at least not enough to admit it in public/to Dimitri’s face). However, their unique dinning dialogue has Dimitri teasing Felix and Felix being more typical anime-tsundere and not vicious like he has been. This means Dimitri feels comfortable enough to play around with and tease Felix rather than walk around egg shells around him like he had been. And Felix doesn’t snap and make it awkward, but plays along in his role. Once you reach A-Support, Felix also realizes he and Dimitri work so “well together it’s eerie,” showing Felix settling into his role as the king’s shield. There’s also the extra heartbreak of Felix saying “I’ll cut through” post-TS (esp outside of AM), which was one of Dimitri’s phrases in White Clouds.

Then you get to the battle before you fight Edelgard. Felix tells Dimitri to “go be the boar you are, and don’t look back.” I can’t express the importance of this. First, he’s not saying this viciously in an attempt to hurt Dimitri or provoke a reaction like before. He’s saying this as encouragement. He’s worried Dimitri will falter and not kill Edelgard because Dimitri’s too soft-hearted. So not only is Felix now openly supporting Dimitri, but he’s acknowledging and well aware that the Dimitri he remembers is still there (or he wouldn’t be worried that Dimitri couldn’t finish the job) but also acknowledging and accepting the darker parts of Dimitri by calling him “Boar,” but not using it as cudgel, but as support. “Boar” used to be Felix’s go-to way to dehumanize Dimitri, now he’s reclaiming the word’s meaning between them to be something far less hurtful and dehumanizing and more encouragement. It also means that Felix feels comfortable enough with Dimitri to openly use that word even when he’s using it in a different way rather than awkwardly letting it linger between them.

Then, ofc, there’s their paired ending, where Felix is more upset when Dimitri eventually dies than Dimitri’s own wife which is . . . interpret as you will.

However, a lot of why I ship Dimilix doesn’t have anything to do with that. Honestly, I probably wouldn’t analyze little interactions with them and just stayed happily shipping Dimitri with just Byleth, Dedue, and Marianne (fan art and fanfic have convinced me that Claude and Dimitri would also be fun). So there’s no shortage of people to ship Dimitri with, and Felix can happily pair up with Annette (I don’t really get Sylvain/Felix tbh, not anti it, just don’t get it). BUT - there’s outside AM Felix.

I love Three Houses, but I don’t think it’s perfect, and one thing I don’t like is how the recruitment system works. It often feels like characters have flimsy reasons to join certain houses. It’s also strange how some characters don’t change at all. For some, it makes sense because they have such lose connections to their house leader and/or country (take Linhardt or Ignatz for example). But for others, they really feel like they need a better excuse to join a house other than “Byleth is there,” or at least have the writers show how picking one side over another might shift how they develop. Except they did that - but only with one character: Felix.

Have you seen Felix’s AM endings vs his endings in other routes? In AM, Felix ends up either happily married or paired up with Sylvain or Dimitri and takes over his father’s position. He’s dedicated to restoring the land and fully believes in Dimitri’s rule. He’s well-adjusted and a productive member of society. Felix outside of AM though . . .

All of Felix’s endings are drastically different outside of AM/Blue Lions. He’s a bloodthirsty, death-seeking mercenary. There’s some cases where the woman he pairs up with can eventually sway him from his path, but all of the endings are more somber. It’s implied he died while seeking death as a mercenary in his ending with Sylvain. In his ending with Annette, he never smiles again except when he sees her. In his ending with Dorothea, he never rejoins society. And on and on. A few aren’t as depressing (like Ingrid joins him as a mercenary until they eventually have kids, and he becomes and actual clown pairing with Leonie which is a bit wtf but true). This is because outside of AM, Felix never has anything to fight for.

Throughout all of White Clouds, Felix rails against chivalry and knighthood, but he doesn’t have anything to believe in, just something to hate. In AM, he believes in Dimitri’s rule. He finds something to support. Outside of it, he just stays hating something and never finds anything to live for unless one of the few ladies who can convinces him not to go and try to get himself killed.

In CF, you get a relationship up arrow if you agree with Felix that he’s become a monster. He can potentially kill his father and all of his friends in that route. It turns him into a stoic, coldblooded killing mercenary who shuts off his emotions in order to justify what he’s doing, while never finding a new path to tread. He goes through a negative character development arc and is self-aware.

In SS and VW, he also undergoes negative character development, but shows less self-awareness about it. If you pay attention, you’ll notice that Felix’s monastery dialogue lines grow progressively more violent, bloodthirsty, and vengeful after Dimitri dies up till the end. He essentially becomes what he was critiquing Dimitri for, someone who becomes a bloodthirsty beast seeing vengeance for the dead. He beats himself up over Dimitri’s death because he doesn’t know if things would’ve been different if he stayed by Dimitri’s side, so he tries to deal with his guilt by taking it out on the people who caused Dimitri so much pain and suffering (TWSITD and the Empire). Once again, Felix finds nothing to live for and believe in.

Some people argue that CF Felix is him shaking the bonds of his heritage and cutting himself a new path - literally. But in order for that to work, Felix would have to find a new path. And he just . . . doesn’t. He becomes a mercenary seeking death. I’m not even over exaggerating because omg I ship it so hard (I’m not married to this ship tbh, I like multiple ships for both characters), it’s right there in the end cards that he fought like a man seeking death. You can’t “cut a new path” if there is no new path.

Ultimately, Felix can’t be happy in a world with Dimitri. Dimitri is the only thing Felix ever learns to fight for, not just fight against something. And in AM he does explicitly endorse and support Dimitri and his rule. While I do wish they had an A+ support to really iron things out, I do think it’s fine where things are.

There’s also, ofc, the drama and angst of it all. At the core of it, you’ve got two people who very much care about each other, but trauma that effected them so vastly differently and the complexities of their trauma stemming from the same event and having such wildly different experiences with it has made them unable to communicate anymore. Felix lashing out at everyone and Dimitri’s holding it all in is a toxic combination, one ripe for fanfic type angst. The fact that, if these two never do make up with each other, it leads to one of their deaths and the other forever miserable and unable to ever make amends adds an extra layer of tragedy and urgency to their relationship. Felix can literally kill Dimitri, or he can end up one of Dimitri’s most loyal and dedicated vassals. There’s just so much to play around with, imagine, write meta or fan fic about, etc . . . I also think that the whole “Boar” thing not getting fully resolved in supports prompt people to ship it more, because they you want to seek meta analysis and go into every line or create fan work to fill in the gaps. Then add the extra layer that their loyalty is fated (i.e. Fraldarius always protects the Blaiddyd) adding yet another layer to explore, not to mention also looking into Rodrigue’s undying loyalty to Lambert and the possibility of multi-generational shipping and yeah. This couple is just a shippers paradise. There’s so much angst, so much to explore, so much you can fill in, so much you can analyze, so much you can add to it, so many cannon opportunities to explore both happy and tragic results, etc . . . It, of course, doesn’t hurt either that these are two incredibly good looking men either.

Ultimately, Dimilix to me is a great ship for a story. It’s one I love reading fan fiction about. If Dimitri and Felix were real people, would I want them to get together? Not really. It’s pretty toxic, and I think they’d have to work through a lot before I think they’d be honestly wholly good for each other. Dimitri’s being prone to depression up to being suicidal kinda needs someone more emotionally supportive if they were in the real world, but this isn’t the real world. This is fiction, and Dimilix provides endless opportunities to explore a really interested relationship that gives you enough to want to ship it, but leaves out enough that there’s lots left to explore in meta and fan work. Like, in the real world, I’d probably want Dimitri to hook up with Dedue or Marianne, and sometimes I’m really in the mood for an overly emotional sweet Dimidue fic (there is a tragic lack of Dimitri/Marianne fic) or seeing soft fan art or reading pure fluff between two wholesome people who love and support each other so throughly - but other times I want the angst, the drama, the sexy tension, the deep psychological scars getting in the way, etc . . .

If you’re really curious, I’d say to read a fanfic called “Music for A While” by ladylapislazuli https://archiveofourown.org/works/21600880 It’s not finished yet, but it’s soooo good, and will give some insight into what I’m talking about a bit - honestly all her stuff is good, and she’s a multi shipper to so :)

Wow this got longer than I meant it to be lol.

If there's something I don't understand, is all of these people I see shipping Dimitri and Felix

I truly cannot fathom why or how this came to pass

Like???

Felix expresses visible and explicit disgust and contempt for Dimitri in nearly every scene they're in together, and even when Dimitri's not on screen

And while Dimitri doesn't hate Felix, hell he can't even blame him for feeling the way he does, he doesn't try and force him to become friends again in any capacity. He just kinda accepts it and continues to speak very politely to him even when Felix is throwing out insults and derogatory names including the one we hear him say all the time, "Boar". In fact, he never even calls Felix out on these things that would have most people throwing down the gauntlet.

Even in their A Support, Felix remains rude and disrespectful to Dimitri all the way through. Yes, I'm aware that Felix hides his true thoughts behind cutting words and says the opposite of what he means, but this feels different to me from any other of his supports

Sure, he may care about him marginally as a human being, but after seeing the way Dimitri quelled the eastern Kingdom rebellion with such viciousness and ruthlessness (from what I remember anyhow), he lost faith in him and began distancing himself from Dimitri even before Byleth entered Garreg Mach

If people could tell me in the comments why they ship Dimitri and Felix, that'd be appreciated. I only ask that you be civil and I'm certain an informative dialogue can occur

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paladinalchemist · 5 years ago

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Lol with @gascon-en-exil being smug. He’s pretty open about that. How does that make him wrong though? Sounds more like the El defender realized they were outclassed in terms of game knowledge, history, and other factors.

It’s also absurd to claim no changes would’ve happened without her war. If the best her defenders can come up with is a hypothetical argument that’s impossible to prove, that’s quite sad. Game knowledge says the opposite. Hanneman’s research started without Edelgard. Sylvain (an AM natural character who cannonly thinks Edelgard is an idiot even when you recruit him on CF) ends crest bias regardless of the route. Every major noble doesn’t like the system. Claude, Dimitri, and Rhea all acknowledge problems with how things are run and do not have iron grips on the current system and not even their rule. Rhea willingly steps down in every route except CF. Everyone expects Dimitri to make changes in Faerghus, and he acknowledges how messed up everything is (he’s just wise enough to understand both sides of the argument). Claude wants to make Fodlan a place with less prejudice. The only thing stopping anyone from making these changes is TWSITD, ironically the only person Edelgard is willing to make her ally. Anyone who thinks no one wanted to change and no one would’ve took any steps towards reform without her is just a delusional as she is thinking she’s the only person specialTM enough to rule Fodlan.

I’ll also never understand why unified Fodlan is superior. How? All routes end that way, but that’s more to do with Japan’s imperialistic past (and I suppose Oda Nobunaga and Sakamoto Ryoma making the same arguments - albeit it, for Sakamoto at least, only staying within Japan’s borders and to fix a divided country rather than conquering their neighbors - that attempt came later) than unified Fodlan being somehow inherently better than all 3 countries existing in a reformed manner.

Counter argument if Sothis is a god. And Edelgard Stan’s love merit because super special people should rule. Who the fuck is more special then God? It just seems like a naturally ending for meritocracy in a fantasy setting with actual gods living among the populous. That an avatar of the god would become king/queen. You can’t beat an immortal in experience. If Byleth didn’t become king by merit Seteth would because he is the next qualified person since Rhea doesn’t want it. Els system is doomed

This is funnily the logical extreme of Edelgard’s system, which does incidentally give her an added reason to kill off the remaining Nabateans so that there simply aren’t any nigh-immortal beings with access to incredible magic and technology in Fòdlan anymore. Byleth’s Crest stone also disappears because of *vague hand-waving*, thereby sidestepping that potential threat to the Imperial throne’s absolute control over the continent.

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paladinalchemist · 5 years ago

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Bold of you to assume each and every one of them hasn’t written a 10K essay already.

What’s great is that Faerghast didn’t even pander to them like poor Joe Zieja got bullied into doing. He basically said “sorry, not sorry, but Edelgard did bad things.”

The real fun will be if he actually makes an Edelgard Support Science before the stans get tired of talking about her and it isn’t either a.) as long or b.) a giant galaxy brain explanation of why Edelgard did nothing wrong and anyone who says otherwise is mean/stupid/sexist/didn’t play and just an honest analysis of her.

Whats hilarious about the Dimitri video isn't that Faerghast is possibly biased thowards AM and Dimitri, its that the people that are accusing him of being biased are people from r/Edelgard. The lack of self-awareness is actually impressive.

And each and every one of them is fully capable of writing yet another 10K essay and/or making their own video.

The Internet is, as always,a great equalizer for such things.

But so far, it looks like no one’s review bombing or anything so... ain’t no thing not even chicken wings with potato wedges.

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paladinalchemist · 5 years ago

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I’ll add my two cents that no one asked for.

First off, it literally never gets old when people “critique” AM for having a character-focused narrative. First rule of creative writing may be “show don’t tell” (which this game infamously fails at, with AM being the least guilty), but second is plot and ideas are cheap - characters matter.

Dimitri’s redemption may seem abrupt, but it makes perfect sense if you put any brainwork into it (farrrr less brainwork than it takes to try and come up with any character development that Claude (at least on screen and not during the TS) and especially Edelgard gets (as she gets basically nothing)). Dimitri’s issue has and will always be that he entirely ignores his own desires because of a bad combination of people pleaser, duty via status, country that shoves duty down your throat, and trauma causing extreme self-loathing. It’s shortcutting Dimitri’s character to say all his actions during his “feral” mode were entirely driven by the needs of the ghosts alone (as even he admits some of his motivation is his own suicidal and wanting his headaches/ghosts to be quiet and give him some peace). Rodrigue forces Dimitri to deal with the fact that while Dimitri may not care at all about himself, he's loved anyways and his actions have consequences for the people who care about him if he thinks he deserves it or not. Seeing Rodrigue not only force Dimitri to accept that, but die while encouraging Dimitri to live for himself (and not seek vengeance as everyone else who either actually died or he thought they died didn’t get a chance to talk to him before they passed) instead of seek bloody vengeance. Of course this actually doesn’t “fix” Dimitri. Instead, he hits an all-time low and essentially nearly leaves on a suicide mission. He’s so low he’s more open than usual, hence Byleth talking him out of it and redirecting him. And he’s not “fixed” either. Just about every A-Support of his deals with his ongoing trauma and how to deal with it in a healthier fashion. His rage rears its ugly head again when attacking Cornelia. Nor is this turnaround as abrupt as it seems to anyone paying attention. He’s always far more respectful towards Rodrigue than Byleth or Gilbert, warns and protects Byleth, and treats Dedue much more tenderly than anyone else. Again, if someone can get any sort of meaningful narrative out of Edelgard’s “growth” or honestly believe that the Black Eagles outside of Hubert have anything of substance to add to CF at all, then they have to admit that AM’s arc is much better than the antis like to paint it as it takes far less dissecting of the plot and mental gymnastics to come up with a logical sense of development.

AM is easily the best from a writer’s standpoint and it’s basically unarguable given how it’s the only one with an actual character arc, the only one where the characters’ behavior during time-skip makes any sense at all, the only one where the antagonist has proper build up that paid off and isn’t completely demonized, and the only one that follows up on its themes correctly. Characters not getting their due proper arcs (i.e. Felix) is nothing new to Fire Emblem. It’s something that’s a common issue throughout the franchise because of permadeath. It severely limits the characters who are allowed to move the plot forward and literally every single game in the franchise has this issue. AM gets major props for making all of the side cast at least feel important and like they have their own arcs, something no other FE game has ever really accomplished to the extend AM does ever - and certainly not any other route in the game, especially CF which turns into the Edelgard, Hubert, Byleth show where Edelgard acts like an idiot teenager instead of a competent commander, Byleth agrees with everything Edelgard says and teases her, and Hubert plans stuff and gets shit actually done.

Unfortunately, you could just remove Claude from VW and nothing really changes he’s so insignificant to what happens in his route. The plot and lore-dumping at the end is so clunky and contradicts itself since things happen/don’t happen in SS and CF that don’t line up with VW’s lore at all (why doesn’t Byleth die in CF, why doesn’t Nemesis wake up in VW?) making it already more of a redundant route than it already is considering even the lore it adds is questionable since no other route seems to care about sticking to it in order to have a happy ending/unique final boss. SS tries way to hard to force you to be heartbroken over Edelgard instead of creating any interesting conflict, has to rely on the character who’s basically a plant of wood in terms of personality to lead it, and doesn’t do anything interesting with Rhea at all. The ending comes out of no where as well. CF is the biggest clusterfuck. Edelgard essentially accomplished nothing for 5 years straight because she’s too busy crying over her crush, no one questions her, she’s got no sense of self-awareness, plot points like her lying about the javelins of light go no where, most of the BE cast just stand around and smile and nod at her and not much else (including Byleth). They spend way too much time making Edelgard a cringeworthy tsundere waifu instead of a believable commander, as her “plan” after the war is shoddy. Her actions as the Flame Emperor cease to exist. TWSITD is built up to be the big bad, only for the route to end 4 chapters sooner than the others (and to anyone who claims Edelgard’s way was the “fastest” - did they miss the war right after her other war??? It’s more like her path is so violent and bloody they couldn’t fit it into one game because you’d basically need two war campaigns back-to-back). She preaches about how humans don’t need gods, but doesn’t accomplish jack shit until the god/goddess reincarnated is fighting for her, and never really explains why she’s so fixated on Rhea other than “she’s a dragon” which is where all the racist remarks come from.

Also the abelism in the community is astounding. Part of why I love AM so much is the narrative that having a mental illness, even a severe one, doesn’t mean you can’t be someone amazing, that you’re not allowed to accomplish great things. It shows that actually dealing with your illness and finding healthy ways to cope with it is the way to success, not just using it as a romantic tool.

As for AM’s ending, it’s actually the easiest to swallow. CF’s endings add literally nothing unique despite Edelgard starting a war to change things (with the sole exception of FERDINAND’s ideas, not hers). She’s a dictator who hand-picks her successor and lets the all-powerful emperor determine who does and doesn’t have merit and can give and remove power at their whim - it’s a recipe for disaster, and there’s no way the Alliance and Kingdom accept her as a leader since she forcibly took them over and even thinks they’re rightly hers. SS leaves an immortal god in charge of church and state (somehow worse than CF). VW ignores prejudice, something to this day we can’t work through. AM sets up a participatory government, the beginnings of social welfare, the separation of church and state (but not annihilation of the church). It’s easily the most peaceful ending and only one of two endings that will possibly lead to a far more modern government over time at a pace that won’t result in more dictators and/or replacements of the old system. I don’t know what history books the poster claims they’re reading, but if they knew jack shit about revolutions, they’d know the only one that didn’t lead directly to either more war, tolitarian governments that made everyone’s lives worse, or the reinstatement of the nobility right after, was the American Revolution and that’s largely because they instituted checks and balances (which CF goes out of its way to ignore) and was so far away from it’s overlord in England that it wasn’t worth it for England to keep up the fight.

I suppose you can call me "villain Dimitri anon" now, but I actively dislike Azure Moon for the narrative perks that you and other fans insist it has, but I can't see. What back and forth does Dimitri have with his retainers that aren't confined to supports? There's just Gilbert, Rodrigue, and Byleth ignoring the one-eyed elephant in the room.(1/2)

What support network does Dimitri have? A bunch of badly abused subjects at the end of their rope who don't have the guts to abandon him or give him a wake up call. Dimitri's redemption in the rain makes zero sense as the scene progresses, and outside of some lip service in a support, he's so cured of any trauma that not even getting the truth about Duscur fazes him. What's worse, this redemption is the main idea of the route. (2/3 now)

The back and forth is in reference to how the army in AM feels directionless and disagrees on whether they should liberate the Kingdom or rescue Rhea first. This gets references both in story cutscenes and in the exploration of dialogue of numerous characters, heavily reinforced by many of these same characters remarking on how off-putting Dimitri’s behavior is. This stands in contrast to CF never questioning Edelgard’s actions even as they’re far more systemically terrible with the work of Hubert and the Agarthans behind the scenes; even VW offers a number of scenes and exploration content of characters questioning and critiquing Claude’s actions. Felix’s mini-arc outside his support line with Dimitri is the clearest example, because he’s the loudest voice of opposition and because if you trigger their supports some of the dialogue changes to reflect that, while Rodrigue plays a predictable but workable role as the doomed mentor figure whose death forces Dimitri to confront how his obsession with revenge is hurting the people he loves. This is all unfortunately somewhat undermined by Byleth’s presence and the need for self-insert romance, with them supplanting Dimitri’s established support network and worst of all leading to Dedue being killed off by default and then never re-integrated properly into the story lest his intimacy with Dimitri pose an obstacle to the expected lord/Avatar romance (that can’t even be pushed in the same way that Edeleth can in all routes, incidentally, because Dimitri can’t S rank m!Byleth). This is a genuine problem in AM, but curiously it’s one that I see brought up almost exclusively by fans of Dimitri and his route rather than those who hate AM and/or rail against Dimidue as an allegedly racist pairing.

None of the other Blue Lions gets a single meaningful word in in the main story cutscenes. You can get some character development for Ingrid, Sylvain, and Felix in monastery dialogue and DImitri's supports and that's it. Not to mention, gameplay-wise, dealing with Dimitri is just no fun, and there's no choice to get fed up and leave. With all of Crimson Flower's problems, at least you had to actively choose to go on that route. (3/4 now)

I wouldn’t say that’s all that different from how the other routes handle their chorus of minor characters, especially CF which again minimizes any sort of friction the Eagles might have with Edelgard even when she’s outright lying to them. There’s a reason that SS is sometimes cited as a better characterization showcase for the Eagles other than Edelgard and Hubert, particularly for Ferdinand who actually gets to be the contrarian #3 on that route. Gameplay is more subjective, although I’d rank being unable to instruct Dimitri or have him engage in monastery activities for four calendar months is more than offset by CF being exactly that many months shorter than AM or VW. Also, in terms of building characters Gilbert is far, far less of a pain in the ass than Jeritza, and I say that as someone who’s painstakingly gotten every character in the game to all ranks at S+ and all classes mastered over many NG+ runs. Having to pick CF is also an inconvenience that screws with the flow of Chapter 11 since you need to waste a battle weekend going to Edelgard’s coronation lest you miss out on instruction weeks or later weekends doing it at the start of the month. It’s kind of a moot point to argue about this anyway as the Deer have it the best when it comes to unit development, with neither of these restrictions as well as the longest route and no Part 2 exclusive to worry over.

Crimson Flower had a "big picture" war story, Verdant Wind had good character balance and exposed the truth about the player character. Azure Moon was just all DImitri. Not to mention, my own political philosophy and real-world history interests make me biased against Dimiri and his stance. (And no, I'm no fan of dictators, just not of a fan of Fearghus-style feudalism) (4/5)

I do like redemption stories. But I've seen them done better elsewhere. Dimitri's character is interesting, but his route isn't. All routes on Three Houses have problems that I nitpick about, but as thing stand, I can support Claude and Edelgard in achieving their ideals, i cannot in good conscience support Dimitri as king. Nurse him back to sanity, maybe, but put him in charge of other people's lives? No. (end)

Eh, SS is the route you’re looking for if you want the full story of Byleth’s origins and their connection to Rhea; VW’s endgame exposition dump is more about the true origin of Crests and Relics and general worldbuilding which is why I’d call it the big picture route over CF which kicks one of its major antagonists to an offscreen postgame. I also question why you single out the quasi-feudalism of Faerghus when that’s the established standard for all of FE and for most of the fantasy genre overall. Fire Emblem is notoriously reactionary when it comes to its politics, such that Dimitri’s solo ending suggesting the beginning of a participatory government might be the single most concrete move toward democracy of any lord in the series. Even as tiny a step as that is it’s more than can be said for Edelgard not delivering on her rhetoric of abolishing the nobility and...whatever she plans for the church (since she vacillates on whether she’s fine with the Seiros faith but only takes issue with the church or whether she thinks humanity has no need for gods, and the only CF ending that re-establishes the church has it run by the state which is some prime dystopian stuff). Claude similarly suffers in that his plans remain ongoing at the end of VW and lack any concrete shape beyond opening the borders and forcing people of different nations and cultures to interact and get along - a well-intended idea, but not one that will lead to serious change without a lot of work and oversight.

Dimitri lacks such grandiose ambitions, and once he’s moved beyond his need for revenge his goals center around alleviating the suffering of the Kingdom and of his loved ones, but on a meta level that’s kind of all he needs to do. One of the reasons that AM’s story structure is more coherent and well-paced than that of the other routes is that it’s extremely well-trod ground for IS: “blue lord takes back invaded homeland from red emperor with the Power of Friendship” is the standard FE plot going back all the way to Marth, and Dimitri’s biggest deviation from that model is the somewhat realistic depiction of his struggles with mental illness. That’s probably why many longtime veterans of the series favor AM, because we know it’s the type of narrative IS excels at and we’re not expecting anything more politically revolutionary. Hell, the proto-democratic ending was as unexpected to me as Dimitri’s strong queer notes...which is why I prefer him over the other two incidentally, not because of his politics which are just fantasy boilerplate of a good king being restored to his throne, and there was much rejoicing, etc. There are gender-based readings of AM that I and others have made, not to mention people who enjoy the homoromantic push and pull of Dedue and Felix on Dimitri and how those relationships develop against one another, and I think it’s telling that those unconventional analyses of Three Houses’s most typical lord and most typical route are still more plausible than all the additional motivation and setup you’d have to throw in to make Dimitri a proper villain, or even just an antagonist for the length of more than one chapter.

#fire emblem

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paladinalchemist · 5 years ago

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Here’s what’s happening.

What exactly do AM fans have to argue against? Someone put it this way. There’s no regular hate posts about AM/Dimitri (search anything other than r/Edelgard or other Edelgard-stan places). Hate/scathing critiques against Edelgard/CF are common, so they feel a compulsion to write essays to defend it that AM/Dimitri (and Claude/VW as SS does get shat on) just don’t have to do.

Sure, there’s a few loud people with incredibly bad takes (i.e. Dimitri who’s downfall is literally about how he never followed what he wanted and was too concerned with pleasing others is a “psychopath” and that democratic reform and social welfare is apparently maintaining the “status quo”). But that’s just it. They’re blatantly false. It’s so weird to me that legitimate critiques against AM (like how Byleth ruins potentially more emotional impact if another character got to do what Byleth did) are never brought up.

AM has the most coherent storyline. Not perfect as not everything brought up in WC is obviously addressed (albeit, TWSITD are KOed by accident which is forever hilarious). Dimitri has a clear-cut, definite arc. The themes of AM are incorporated into Dimitri’s arc, the overall storyline, etc . . . The side cast is more relevant to the overall plot than any FE game has ever managed to do before. It’s the only route that doesn’t either have the final big-bad pop up out of nowhere or get treated like a cartoon (RIP CF!Rhea, she deserves better in general I swear to God no other character got treated worse in the writing than Rhea). It’s ending institutes the most radical change as it’s the only one to introduce checks and balances. The crappier parts of 3H writing (TWSITD, Edelgard’s cringe/sexist Byleth pandering, convoluted world building) are sidelined, and it utilizes 3H best writing aspects (almost everything about the characters) to a fuller extent than any other route. No one has to write up essays about Dimitri’s character arc because it’s coherent and doesn’t need an essay to find one.

CF though is a mess. Even people who love it think it got shafted. And they’re right. How involved was Edelgard in things like human experimentation and Flayn’s kidnapping and torture? We don’t know. The Flame Emperor ceases to exist after the mask comes off. What is Edelgard’s character arc? “Opening up to others?” Then why does she lie to all of the BE except Hubert and Byleth throughout the game right up to the ending title card? Where are her “amazing” reforms? How come CF ending cards everyone keeps their titles and Lorenz’s kid even inherits his title? TWSITD is hyped in the route, but never dealt with. It’s ending contradicts itself. Did Edelgard forcibly remove the Church of Serios and engage in religious persecution? Did she turn it into a government-censored/controlled thing and is not using religion to control the masses? Or what? How much did she buddy-buddy with TWSITD? Why does Byleth not die at the end? Why does everyone ignore how blatantly sexist Edelgard’s writing is in CF by pretending she only gets with F!Byleth and that M!Byleth doesn’t exist? How can war cause Dorothea to have PTSD but she makes a giant opera about how awesome Edelgard’s imperialism is? How come Edelgard spent 5 years doing nothing but crying over Byleth and let a war stagnate? It’s so incredibly awkward, trying to make her seem like an underdog when the Empire is the strongest with or without TWSITD. There’s no real opposition or challenge or exploration or anything to learn in CF because no one and nothing challenges BE on the battlefield or intellectually or philosophically. Edelgard literally engages in blatant imperialism and no one seems to care. Lysethia, if recruited, is either willingly fighting alongside her torturers who literally stole her life away or she’s doing it unknowingly. Petra is still a hostage. All of this is ignored because it might make Edelgard look bad and therefore everything starts looking really messy because nothing gets addressed. And don’t even get started about Edelgard’s blatant propaganda use after the Javalin of light incident. That goes no where too. Thing is CF goes nowhere. It does nothing. And the more you look at it, the more your realize the only point of it is you get to “walk with” the games’ titular waifu because nothing else makes sense as CF makes no sense and ignores anything and everything that could make everything more coherent because all that drama and interesting stuff would make Edel-chan look bad.

That’s why CF gets those massive essays. Because in order to explain nonsense like hiring Kostas and have it make any sense whatsoever, you need those essays. Edelgard engages in so many horrific things, that you need to tear everyone down to her level or write galaxy brain ideas explaining why that’s actually good (no joke, I’ve seen a new idea get more and more repeated that TWSITD actually “isn’t that bad and less bad than Rhea” um, hello?). You need to celebrate “huh moral grayness, despite CF depicting everything Edelgard does as righteous and holy including imperialism - but hey, one look at Japan’s history and their refusal to acknowledge what they did in the name of imperialism may explain that. Dimitri doesn’t have any of these issues. So he doesn’t have the essays, instead, he gets fan art and a million Dimitri/Byleth fanfics as he’s the #2 most written about character behind Byleth only (and for the record, Claude, Felix, and Sylvain all have more fanfic than Edelgard).

It might just be me, but it feels like the 3h fandom is becoming more and more pro-Edelgard/CF anti AM/Dimitri as the days pass. And this isn't just on Reddit, though it's most pronounced there, it feels like this is happening everywhere. Is all the Edelgard essay spam getting to people? Idk I just feel like "AM is the worst route" has become a legit popular opinion and idk how I feel about the fandom "settling" on this opinion.

Idk anon. I really don’t. It could just be your fandom bubble. Or it could just be that the noisier parts of the fandom are like that. Or that the more obsessive people are obviously going to stick around to scream their opinions longer than the rest of us. Who knows?

I think the general love for Dimitri, both in polls and among his supporters, should really speak for itself tbh.

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