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[pennyblossom-meta]

LawMane nation, reporting for duty 🫡

[pennyblossom-meta]

Bookmarking this for later, as I'm super behind on replying to your other posts due to work and travelling. I also have some thoughts I'd like to add here.

Amazing meta, as usual!

[Random Babbling] Love as a weakness for L

Another new thought to my fic. Inspired by this meta on reddit. (read this first)

To connect? this meta/analysis, after L gradually learns how to love, he soon discovers that this would be his ultimate weakness.

Having learned to love, he now understands deeply that this could become his weakness, his vulnerability. He will no longer be the person who relies solely on logic and calculation, who resorts to any means necessary, who would even resort to cheating. He acknowledges that these traits are essential to being a good detective. However, he has come to the realization that he cannot embody them anymore.

He must tell the children that he is such a person so that those disappointed children will not naturally inherit him. Only those children who feel entitled can live up to L's name.

He seeks to find someone who will remain unaffected by love, whether due to incapacity or immunity. From this perspective, L's evolution can be justified, as can his capacity to love and his willingness to seek a better successor. In this sense, he would not let Watari choose the successors anymore, but to take matters himself. His ideal successor was not a child like him. L had totally different perspective from Watari when it comes to choosing successors. Instead, he seeks someone entirely different, capable of fulfilling the role of L's successor.

A is dead. B is dead. It is not because they are a failure. It is because they are too similar to L.

I think combining that analysis of L and my own interpretation of L, and the adjustments I made, the gentleness of L would be much more obvious in my story. And to contract to Light Yagami much more. L sees all kinds of pain and suffering yet he still has that softness to the world and people. He doesn't care how other view him- the listless quirky young man, but he stands for what he fights. Light Yagami sees the partial world but has a quite aggressive and extreme state-of-mind, hidden under his perfect mask.

Love is strong, strengthening one's mind. Love is precious, something that needed to be protected, and to fight for. Yet love is a weakness in detective work.

[pennyblossom-meta]

I am in full L analyse mode for some reason and I keep looking at the L: Wammy House manga and I just… This panel.

Child L doesn’t know what a hug is.

Child L associates touching with violence.

Child L knows how to defend himself.

What happened to you L? What were your parents like?

And I keep thinking on that scene in the manga where Misa kills Hirokazu Ukita… L reacts somewhat fine to it, like so:

Doing his detective work, caring about it sure but remaining calm to a degree. But then Shuichi Aizawa touches him and his body language changes.

He’s like… more curled in to himself and he looks to be shaking. Is it because he was touched? Is it because he was grabbed by someone who was yelling at him? Has he had experience with this before?

Oh L… Oh L, what has happened to you?

[pennyblossom-meta]

I like how L's "I am that monster" speech can be interpreted either as L having a superiority complex and thinking about himself as ubermensch, either as L having an inferiority complex and hating his own nature for making him unable to be a normal person. As someone who felt both these ways about my own neurodivergence, I can project myself on L both ways.

Hi anon. That’s an interesting perspective. This ask seems to come from a personal place so I don’t mean to knock your feelings about the speech or L. These are just my thoughts about L and that speech.

I guess its hard for me to see how that speech (in the Relight movie) implies that L thinks of himself as superior in that way. Nietzsche’s ‘ubermensch’ is a term I could see applying to how Light viewed himself-- someone transcending humanity who feels fit to impose their own morals and will on the world to transform it. Light wanted to do that but L never cared to. Nietzsche ties the ubermensch to the death of God, and this slots in well with Light’s knowledge of Mu as a motivating factor to make the most of his life on Earth while he could (per Ohba’s view of the message of the manga). When Ryuk told told Light that there was nothing for humans after death, only everlasting nothingness for good and bad people alike, that’s a god-killing statement. (I don’t really like the term ubermensch because of the historical connotations but that’s beside the point)

But back to L, I don’t recall seeing in his thoughts that he explicitly believed himself to be superior over others but it probably shows in how he speaks to Matsuda and Misa-- calling them ‘stupid’ or implying it, etc. L always thought he was right and (usually) that his way was the best, but the sum total of his efforts in life had indeed proven to himself and others that he was a singular kind of person. He was realistic about his abilities and intelligence, and could be callous to those who didn’t share them. Smart people can be dicks about that sometimes lol. So, I can’t really buy that he believed he was inferior. 

If I had to guess, L accepted he was different from most people in ways both good and bad and didn’t find a lot of value in bemoaning it after figuring that out. He accepted himself as he was, for better or worse, because understanding himself and his strengths/limitations was also a kind of power. The ‘worse’ part could play into that speech about monsters and which kind he felt he was-- cunning monsters who always tell lies, have no understanding of the human heart, cannot form friendships or love, cannot feel hunger, who attain knowledge without appreciating or advancing it. If this is how L views himself it is bleak but he states it so matter-of-factly I cannot equate it with self-hate. It feels like deep self-acceptance, to the point that he doesn’t see himself changing, and recognizes its a weakness that someone like him could identify and exploit. 

So, his answer to the kid at Wammy’s, to name his fear, is meeting a ‘monster’ like himself who also knew what they were, because that would be the one who could beat him.  

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Obata on L’s design and clothes, from How to Read

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From Ryuk’s Notebook in DN 13: How to Read

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Everything L ate or drank

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Let's be real: Misa can actually be considered worse than Light under a certain perspective.

After everything she's been through, not only did Misa not learn the meaning of compassion and forgiveness, but she is also highly manipulative, using her looks to create a more fragile persona so she can backstab others. Furthermore, the way she latched onto Light and forced him into a relationship is highly toxic. She would need a lot of therapy to overcome these behaviours.

Of all the things that L couldn't predict about Misa, he was at least sharp enough to properly consider the danger that she posed if there was indeed a power that allowed her to kill with just a face.

The imprisonment/torture is meant to make you feel uncomfortable because these were indeed harsh and extreme measures, but the unknown variables in this case were such that it's rather thoughtless to blame L for this scenario and say 'I wouldn't have done it this way' or 'this is wrong and you're a bad person for doing it'.

It's also simplistic for its moral ambiguity; DN is a show made of grey characters. Light isn't necessarily wrong for all his faults, L isn't the hammer of justice and Misa isn't irredeemably awful.

How is torturing misa valid?

I’ll cite L’s words.

“I try to envision the events that take place as individual elements. I can then make a note of each one, but I gain the better understanding when I combine all of those again as a whole”.

If we are looking at this fact separately, it seems awful and cruel, but in the context it becomes clear that this was the only option he had.

Misa knew L’s name, and if he has confined her with rather normal conditions only to isolate her from the First Kira and preventing her from using her powers to kill him - that would only be a matter of time when he would’ve had to let her go, because people would’ve started to ask questions. L would’ve had only a couple of months, maybe even less, to get something from the First Kira, which was highly unlikely! And as soon as Misa is released, L is dead, and so maybe the whole Task Force.

I am not even talking about what the world would look like under the rule of these two Kiras! Everyone who disagrees will be dead.

Why the measures were so harsh? Because L counted on Misa confessing very soon. If he was interrogating her in much softer conditions, there was much higher chance that with time either the First Kira will find out the way to contact the Second, or the First Kira will simply kill Misa (L had no idea of Rem protecting her).

What L also couldn’t know was the level of Misa’s obsession with Light. If he knew, I think he would’ve figured out that this whole operation could fail. But what other option he could’ve had?

With taking all the facts into account, if you were L, what would you do?

[pennyblossom-meta]

Very interesting perspective on L's moral greyness and why the torturing of Misa happened.

How is torturing misa valid?

I’ll cite L’s words.

“I try to envision the events that take place as individual elements. I can then make a note of each one, but I gain the better understanding when I combine all of those again as a whole”.

If we are looking at this fact separately, it seems awful and cruel, but in the context it becomes clear that this was the only option he had.

Misa knew L’s name, and if he has confined her with rather normal conditions only to isolate her from the First Kira and preventing her from using her powers to kill him - that would only be a matter of time when he would’ve had to let her go, because people would’ve started to ask questions. L would’ve had only a couple of months, maybe even less, to get something from the First Kira, which was highly unlikely! And as soon as Misa is released, L is dead, and so maybe the whole Task Force.

I am not even talking about what the world would look like under the rule of these two Kiras! Everyone who disagrees will be dead.

Why the measures were so harsh? Because L counted on Misa confessing very soon. If he was interrogating her in much softer conditions, there was much higher chance that with time either the First Kira will find out the way to contact the Second, or the First Kira will simply kill Misa (L had no idea of Rem protecting her).

What L also couldn’t know was the level of Misa’s obsession with Light. If he knew, I think he would’ve figured out that this whole operation could fail. But what other option he could’ve had?

With taking all the facts into account, if you were L, what would you do?

[pennyblossom-meta]

Oh, I saw your post! It was definitely a thought-provoking read; we are so used to translations for JP works that sometimes it doesn't occur to us that they might be biased, or not entirely accurate to the original tone.

I find it something of a complication. It even breaks my trust on these supposed 'official translations' quite a bit, because it shows a lack of understanding of the source material. That's also why I prefer to read in the original language as often as possible. I usually take what I read with a grain of salt and consult the sub + dub version (and even fan translations) to get a better understanding of tone. There's definitely a massive difference in the way Watari is portrayed across the different mediums and it's very interesting to get a glimpse of the way the translations have actually been handled.

There's also an argument to be made about translation philosophy: it often happens that being faithful to the letter vs being faithful to the spirit can come into conflict. When authenticity is put into question, the true personality of the characters can be wildly misinterpreted.

That's why you it's a good rule of thumb to avoid specific translators. Though I don't speak the language, I've heard about the infamous Polish translation of The Lord of the Rings by Jerzy Łoziński, which apparently has become a meme because it tried to make the book more 'homely' and 'native' to readers. It ended up creating an absurdist folk tale that lacks the gravitas of the original work and reads like a fever-induced-dream, or so I was told.

I've been pondering about it and trying to think of some examples I'd actually like an opinion on, since the EN version is clearly biased. For example, how is the iconic Monster speech handled?

There are several versions available for the anime and manga, this one being the most gut wrenching:

“There are many types of monsters that scare me: Monsters who cause trouble without showing themselves,monsters who abduct children, monsters who devour dreams, monsters who suck blood… and then, monsters who tell nothing but lies. Lying monsters are a real nuisance: They are much more cunning than others. They pose as humans even though they have no understanding of the human heart; they eat even though they’ve never experienced hunger; they study even though they have no interest in academics; they seek friendship even though they do not know how to love. If I were to encounter such monsters, I would likely be eaten by them… because in truth, I am that monster.”

I wonder how this reads in the original language and just how bastardised the EN translation made it. lux-mea-lex made an excellent analysis of this speech.

I have been so used to hearing L's dub voice in my head (whenever i read fics) and also whenever I watch clips that it genuinely shocked me when i heard the "I am L" scene in japanese and how different they sounded alongside the implications in the attitude of their characters.

L's sub voice holds a natural polite tone normal for the japanese whilst maintaining an air of professionalism and authority. His tone does not sound "condescending" too when he told the task force about how they would've died if he was kira. It was respectful although you can hear the slight disappointment in his voice, as if he's trying not to let it shown out of tact.

Additionally, the way jpn sub! L spoke the "Let's show Kira that we're willing to risk our lives, because justice will prevail." scene sounds encouraging to say the least. He was clearly driven by personal reasons ("But I will win in the end.") but even so, he was speaking in a "we" sense, like he was giving the task force some acknowledgement for their efforts and then pushing them to do better in the investigation.

The dubbed version of this scene, on the other hand, gives a feeling that L like meeting and working with the task force is more of a "chore" rather than of extra help. The perpetually tired tone of dub!L made the "Please don't give out your names so casually." scene translate to "Gosh, they're so stupid." It's both mockery and a warning. Atleast, that's how I interpreted it.

He lets his authority known by the task force without coating it. For example, the "I want to show kira that we're all risking our lives if that's what it takes, because justice will prevail no matter what" scene is very authoritative. Note on the emphasis on "I WANT," like L's telling the team "Yes, we will but under MY orders."

Now this isn't a hate on the death note dub version. I loved the dubbed voice for L and i do believe it also fits him. You could say I was just surprised at how a slight change of tone and delivery could change a scene so much.

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come on, man want just a little sippy threat with 130% caffeine and 1 kg of sugar inside :(

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This is absolutely amazing ❤️

in case you missed it..

the LABB animatic i did at the beginning of the year:3 its a cool one man i love it i put sm effort into it

[pennyblossom-meta]

Small addition to these already amazing analysis: even though there are things that Watari cannot immediately control or improve, he will try for the betterment of all.

Here I am with another controversy.

Wammy’s house.

Another Note, from where we get the most of information about the idea behind Wammy’s house, was “written” by Mello. In Near’s words, Mello is a person, who “lets emotions get the best of him”. So, to get the idea of what Wammy’s house really was like, we need to put away everything - Mello’s speculations, opinions and emotions - except pure facts.

And this way, we get very little: children in Wammy’s house were raised as L’s successors; A took his own life; B became a criminal.

I know that most part of fandom considers the concept of Wammy’s house to be wrong and hurtful. I want to show you another side of it.

To understand the concept of Wammy’s house better, we need to take a closer look at Quillsh Wammy.

I don’t believe in Wammy being an evil mastermind, I believe he was a person with a kind heart (Wammy’s house wasn’t the only orphanage he has founded) and his own way of thinking.

He was certainly a career-oriented person - he has achieved very much, and has continued to be very active, posing as Watari, not being just a butler for L, but participating in L’s detective work.

This kind of people find their happiness in fulfilling their potential, and value education and career very much.

I am convinced that this was one of two main reasons for creating the successor’s program: to give brilliant young minds the best possible education and the possibility to build a career as a world’s best detective.

I also see Wammy as a person with pretty much conservative views, and having a strong old-school moral compass; that leads me to believe he viewed L’s work as a good deed, and genuinely wanted it to be continued - that’s the second reason for founding Wammy’s house.

But people like Quillsh Wammy have also a weakness - they are not emotional. Strong willpower, that makes them great achievers, makes them also feel that many things can be achieved with just patience and determination.

That’s one of the reasons why we have A. I don’t know if that was the fault of the successor’s program being too harsh. Although I have some thoughts about A’s personality, and I would like to share them in another post.

But the good thing about Watari as an inventor was that when things didn’t work, he didn’t throw them away. He tried to understand what’s wrong, eliminate it, and make it work.

The evidence of this progress is:

First - we have no tragic stories anymore (Matt and Mello don’t count, the tragedy of their story was their involvement in Kira case, not the successor’s program);

Second, and the most important - Near successfully taking over L’s name.

[pennyblossom-meta]

Adding a small note to this, I would say that one of the major differences with Another Note and L:Change the WorLd when it comes to how Watari is represented is also due to these mistranslations from the original source material. I'm unsure whether this is due to a lax approach when it comes to tone, or difficulty understanding the nuances between languages. JP is more concept based which possibly tripped the translators a bit, though this issue isn't exactly uncommon in western books and movies either.

The EN version adapted the tone and the words in a very flexible fashion, to the point that we're almost seeing variations of the same characters. There's a lot of hate towards Watari and Wammy's that seems unjustified, especially if one peruses through AA and L:CtW — particularly the latter.

I would venture a polite guess that both AA and L:CtW are closer to the original concept for Watari as a kind, though curious man who raised detectives to help the world. L's philosophy of kindness through justice also seems to be one of Watari's teachings.

What does give me some pause is the environment of toxic competition where everyone seems to want to step on L in order to defeat him. Without going into an in-depth analysis on this, I'd think it's a consequence of a failed model, though the original concept wasn't at all villainous as sometimes people might believe.

I have been so used to hearing L's dub voice in my head (whenever i read fics) and also whenever I watch clips that it genuinely shocked me when i heard the "I am L" scene in japanese and how different they sounded alongside the implications in the attitude of their characters.

L's sub voice holds a natural polite tone normal for the japanese whilst maintaining an air of professionalism and authority. His tone does not sound "condescending" too when he told the task force about how they would've died if he was kira. It was respectful although you can hear the slight disappointment in his voice, as if he's trying not to let it shown out of tact.

Additionally, the way jpn sub! L spoke the "Let's show Kira that we're willing to risk our lives, because justice will prevail." scene sounds encouraging to say the least. He was clearly driven by personal reasons ("But I will win in the end.") but even so, he was speaking in a "we" sense, like he was giving the task force some acknowledgement for their efforts and then pushing them to do better in the investigation.

The dubbed version of this scene, on the other hand, gives a feeling that L like meeting and working with the task force is more of a "chore" rather than of extra help. The perpetually tired tone of dub!L made the "Please don't give out your names so casually." scene translate to "Gosh, they're so stupid." It's both mockery and a warning. Atleast, that's how I interpreted it.

He lets his authority known by the task force without coating it. For example, the "I want to show kira that we're all risking our lives if that's what it takes, because justice will prevail no matter what" scene is very authoritative. Note on the emphasis on "I WANT," like L's telling the team "Yes, we will but under MY orders."

Now this isn't a hate on the death note dub version. I loved the dubbed voice for L and i do believe it also fits him. You could say I was just surprised at how a slight change of tone and delivery could change a scene so much.

[pennyblossom-meta]

[pennyblossom-meta]

do you think L would be attracted to someone who’s similar to him? intensely curious about everything, relatively intelligent and philosophical, quieter/more reserved with their emotions and willing to humor odd theories and conversations? INTP vibes y’know?

Possibly. It depends on how you let your personality interact with your life as a whole. He would have very little interest, for example, in dating a Wammy House type person, someone whose enjoyment of life is hindered greatly by their intelligence, because as someone whose entire life has been hindered greatly by his intelligence, the last thing he needs in a partner is someone who is also going to have that deficiency, because then neither of you can cover one another’s backs. If he does date someone like that, he will absolutely encourage you to not be that, actively drag the two of you out because otherwise you’ll destroy each other. It’s also a matter of safety; typically smart people are the most dangerous, so if you’re smart and ask a ton of questions about him and his work, his immediate response is going to be suspicion.

It’s all about moderation, though; if you can keep yourself mentally healthy and get out of the house once and a while and take care of yourself, then he’ll probably want to be with you. If you let your area of expertise consumes your life, then he probably won’t. It’s not a downside that you can make good conversation, but it’ll take a bit more for him to trust you, to determine whether you’re smart and well meaning or cunning. But, if you keep at it and let him see that you mean well, the two of you will work out.